#300: Kevin Patterson-University of Central Missouri

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
extraordinary message for Gil Athletics Connections.
Welcome back here to the Gil Athletics Connections Podcast,

(00:23):
the number one podcast in the world according to my 11 year
old daughter. And that means everything to me
and nothing else. So it doesn't matter what you
think. So Cassidy, love you, Daddy
loves you. Thank you so much for being such
a big fan here. My name is Mike Cunningham.
I am your host here at the podcast as well as the National
Business Development manager here for GAIL Athletics.

(00:44):
You didn't come here to know whoI am, though.
I'm super excited. I'm going to get hopped right
into it. Help me welcome the head coach
of the University of Central Missouri.
We're going to find out. They're, they're jennies.
They're mule. We're going to figure out this
whole animal thing. You know how much I love
mascots. Help me welcome the wise, the
wonderful Mr. Kevin Patterson. Kevin, how are you, my friend?
Hey, I'm doing great, super excited to be with you.

(01:04):
Love the podcast and and can't wait to to tell my story and and
talk track and field for a few hours.
I love it, man. Your story matters.
And you know, I tell that to people because, well, I believe
it. You know, everybody's story is
unique. Everybody's story has value to
others and to themselves and to their own family and friends.
So, you know, I kind of pinch myself every once in a while

(01:27):
that, you know, this is my job. I get to uplift and honor
coaches around the country. And I'm excited to do that with
you today here, my friend. Yeah, I'm excited.
You know, I kind of brought it up during the intro.
I do want to tackle it first andforth.
So what is a well, I know what amaybe I think I know what a mule
is, but what's a Jenny? Maybe you had to learn this as
well because we're going to learn this as well.
Absolutely. Yeah, your your rookie year here

(01:49):
at Central Missouri. What, what is the what, what's
the difference between a mule and a Jenny?
And what, what, what have you learned?
You so so a mule is, you know, and, and I might get this wrong
as well, but I think it's a combination between a a horse
and a donkey. So the mule is the the male.
Yeah, and. Then Jenny is the the female

(02:10):
mule, so. So a mule and a donkey are
different. They're different.
Yes. That's why I hedged when I said
maybe I'm going to learn becauseI thought in my head a mule is a
donkey, just another name, but it is a different a combination
of two. I wish my wife was here.
She did a deep dive. She's, she's a science teacher,
so she knows everything about them.

(02:32):
So one of the, one of the reallycool things is obviously, you
know, we're in Warrensburg, MO, right next to the, the Whiteman
Air Force Base, which is where we, we house all our B2 bombers
here in the United States. But it was always a military
town. So in World War 1 and the barn
still exists, they're actually turning into a brewery.

(02:55):
So I'm pretty excited about that.
But so where they housed all themules for World War One was in
downtown Warrensburg, probably about three blocks from campus.
So a really, really cool story where, you know, I think what
anyone, you know, when, when I call them the first time and
they do that research and they're like, you guys are the

(03:16):
mules. Like what is this?
You know, it's, it's a super unique mascot, but a really,
really cool story behind how we became the mules and jennies,
you know, so on, on this barn, still to this day, there's
there's a painting that says behind these doors lives the,
the world's meanest mules. So it's, you know, so we, we had

(03:38):
a lot to do with, you know, you know, you know, winning the
World War One and, and still to this day, you know, when, when
hurricane, you know, hits in North Carolina, they used, you
know, mule trains to help rescuepeople out of their, their homes
and things like that. So it's, it's, it's super unique

(03:59):
mascot, but a really, really cool one that that has a great
back story. So it's it's, it's a lot cooler
than than just being the Wildcats or something like that
kind of generic and it looks cool.
But you know, we, we have a great story behind that.
And, and I think our our programs and our university
really, you know, gets behind that, that mascots, you know,

(04:21):
being, you know, work horses and, and, and things like that.
So. Well, I love unique things in
general and I love college mascots.
So, you know, here's a unique college mascot and I, and I do
always love kind of the history behind mascot.
There always is something even ageneral, you know, talk about
general Wildcat or tiger, which is I think the, I think the most
common high school mascot is a tiger.

(04:42):
My, my high school was tigers aswell.
Usually there's some story behind it like, you know, one of
your your brothers there in yourarea, the Pitt State gorillas.
And it's like, why is a gorilla in the middle of Kansas?
Like there actually is a reason why.
And a lot of sometimes those arestudent body LED back in the
day. But I love how they stick and I

(05:03):
love when you can build your culture around whatever positive
attributes when you talk about, you know, the steadfastness of a
of a mule and things like that. That's pretty cool.
And it's got to be because I can't think of too many school
where they have a, not technically a separate mascot
for the men and the women's athletics.
There's not many. You know Tennessee used to have

(05:25):
the Vols and Lady. Vols.
Yeah, that is technically different, but I can't even
think of any off top of my head that have two different ones.
Yeah, I I can't either. And another cool thing is we we
actually have live mascots. So if you come to football
games, basketball games, specialevents, you're going to see the
mules running around. So it's it's pretty cool.
Well, PETA is calling, so we're going to hop.

(05:45):
We're going to ignore that call and and hop into.
I mean they. They have this fancy farm that
they live on. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure.
Hey I used to work at Mississippi State and loved the
bulldog so I I do like live mascots.
I also understand why people have controversy and all that
good stuff. But anyway, Kevin, let's hop in

(06:07):
our Wayback Machine here. Where does you know?
Assuming you are an athlete of track and field in some form or
fashion, where does track and field start for you my friend?
So I'm, I'm one of the younger cousins, you know, I'm on my
dad's side. So, you know, I always looked up
to my, my cousins who, who ran track, they, they played
basketball, they ran cross country, you know, so, so early

(06:29):
on, you know, growing up in, in,in Hobart, IN, you know, that's
what I wanted to be, you know, Iwanted, I looked up to those
guys. So I did never had, you know,
reservations of ever running, you know, track and field.
So it's, it's something that I did because my older cousins did
it and I wanted to be like them.And, and from day one, I really

(06:50):
fell in love with the sport. You know, the city of Hobart is
just a really special place for me, very similar to, to your
background, Mike. You know, we, we grew around, up
around industries and, and I'm sure you had a, a ton of, of
family members that that worked,you know, those, those blue
collar steel mill jobs and things like that.

(07:12):
But I, I was immediately filled with, with some incredible
mentors and, and just some really, really special people
from Betty Cunningham. You know, it's at the middle
school level. You know, she's still to this
day is running marathons and could kick my butt in one to
tell you that right now. But you know, she's filled with

(07:33):
so many people, you know that that love the sport that we're
passionate about it. You know, Hobart was a big time
football school with with down howl and and being those
legends. I was always kind of smaller
until to really my high school years.
So, you know, my mom, you know, tried to keep me away from from

(07:54):
football as as much as possible,But you know, really love to to
play basketball, baseball. I played anything and everything
but you know, from day one my, my passion was always in in
track and field. Did you gravitate towards any
specific events or, you know, typically, hopefully I should
say, typically when we're younger, we do them all in some

(08:15):
form or fashion. What was your event group
progress through through high school?
Yeah, you know, so, so middle school I was doing everything,
you know, I was doing long jump,I was doing hurdles very poorly.
But by the time, you know, when I, I, I joined the, my freshman
year cross country, you know, soreally became quickly kind of a
middle distance runner running the 400 and the 800 and the four

(08:37):
by eights. You know, in in high school, I
ran for a year underneath Jim Johnston, just the legendary
Indiana coach, national championin in the pole vault in the
1950s at Purdue, Just I mean, just an incredible, incredible
person. You know, So I got the honor to
to to run with him on his last year and just was just this

(09:00):
super unique guy that was just ahead of his time, you know,
with lifted weights before anybody before that, you know, I
think it's it's kind of cool is,is, you know, you know, a lot of
times football coaches really, you know, they don't want their
athletes to to be coached by anybody else.
But, you know, even a legend in Don Howard in in the the city of

(09:24):
Hobart knew that coach Johnson was ahead of his time.
So his best lineman, his best quarterbacks, running backs and
the day they went and lift with with coach JJ, you know, so that
was really, really cool. You know, having that that
legend from there, you know, that year, he also had some
incredible, you know, assistant coaches that that really shaped

(09:45):
my, you know, high school years and and how I viewed the sport,
how I viewed myself. Coach Byrd, coach Blake, coach
Black, coach May and then, you know, my senior year at coach
Arthur Holtz, who is still the the the head coach over at
Hobart took, you know, a teaching position and and it's

(10:06):
you know those you know, I so soI grew up with the with the
priest of beer learning disability, really poor grades.
To be completely honest with you, Mike, you know, I, I, you
know, I thought I was going to be working in those steel mills,
you know, like my family and, and there's nothing wrong with
that. They have, you know, my, my

(10:27):
grandpa was always so proud that, you know, he worked in the
steel mills. My family worked in the steel
mills. You know, he would always tell
people that, you know, Hey, we built this country, You know, it
took a lot of pride in that, youknow, but, you know, coach May
my sophomore year came in and, and took over, you know, for, in
our history departments. And, you know, didn't really

(10:48):
have a background of, of, you know, my freshman year, which
was, you know, I, I think I finished the year just the good
enough to to stay eligible to run track.
And that was the only thing I was striving for.
If it took AD, you know, in English class to to be able to,
to run the next meet, I was going to get AD and there was
there wasn't going to be nothingelse.
You know, he, he pushed me to really, you know, find, find a

(11:12):
better purpose, you know, where there was other options beyond
just the steel mill or working in the shop and things like
that. And you know, and you push me.
If if this is something that youwant to do and and you have
those opportunities to, to do itfurther beyond high school that
that I should, I should chase those dreams.

(11:33):
I kind of I kind of want to double click on that.
If you'll allow me, Kevin, about, you know, your learning
disability and something that you said there that I just kind
of recently caught a, you know, I live my life on Twitter, I
like to say, and I recently caught a, a tweet that kind of
struck me as I started thinking about my own background, the
stereotypical background of athletes and coaches and grades

(11:55):
and things like that. You said that, you know, track
and let's expand this to sports,although, you know, obviously
we're going to stay focused on track here, that, you know,
track meant so much to you. And I want to dig into that as
well. You obviously had a great
relationship with your coaches that whatever it took
academically. Well, that's what I was going to

(12:16):
do if it if I needed AD, if I needed an A, if I had to ace
this paper, this test. And I recently saw this tweet
talking about kind of something like that of like it might have
actually been Tony Holler, who we just had as a guest a few
weeks ago that you know, when a kid is, whether it's academic
issues or home it you know what,what would you call it?

(12:40):
Discipline issues, you know, typically one of the things that
we do is we take away extracurriculars like, well,
hey, until you get your grades up, you can't do.
And I remember actually, I thinkit was grades, I might have been
disciplinary. I remember I couldn't do middle
school football, which I'm kind of thankful that I did.
I did high school football. But I'm kind of glad, you know,
I was like, all right, well, I probably didn't need to have my
head banged around, but but I remember I either got in trouble

(13:02):
or grade or something. And my mom said, well, you know,
well then I'm going to take you out of middle school football so
you can focus on your grades. And, and I think it was Tony.
I'll, I'll, I'll give him, I'm sure he would think this way.
So I'm going to give him credit since I can't think of that
person. It was like, you know, great
sports sometimes and other extracurricular activities,
chess clubs, whatever. Give kids structure and

(13:25):
motivation. And you're talking about like,
because it makes me feel like hearing your story and, and you,
you comment off this statement here that if, if it would have
been taken away from you, it waslike, Kevin, you're not doing
good enough in history and chemistry and things like that.
So no more track until you get your grades up.
That'll give you more time to study.
I'm not sure. It doesn't sound like maybe that

(13:47):
would have worked in your case. Not at all, you know, so I
struggled and still struggle in the academic and, you know,
landscape of of those things significantly tracking sports
was was the even playing field for me.
You know, I, I knew, you know, with, with my disability, you

(14:07):
know, I, I would be taken out ofclass, I would miss recess to,
to, to work extra on, you know, my math, you know, tests that I
did did poorly on things like that, you know, so, so early on.
And you know, when you have that, that learning disability,
you, you know, that you're different and, and this is
hereditary, you know, my grandpa, you know, struggle to

(14:32):
read. I don't believe that he even
graduated. My dad barely graduated.
So I, I knew, you know, I'm a father now that, that there
would be that possibility that that this goes down to my
children. And it has, you know, you know,
they built that speech, apraxia and things like that.

(14:54):
And it's, that's, that's a challenge as a father.
But early on, like, you know, I,I think this goes on, you know,
further, you know, my coaching career and, and how I, I view
being a coach is like, I wanted my academic journey to, to be so

(15:15):
much more than mine. I wanted that opportunity to go
to college. And, you know, I'll be honest
with you. When I went to college, I never
thought that I would graduate because that's something that,
that my father couldn't do, my grandfather couldn't do, you
know, So when, when I got that degree, it was really, really
cool. But I, I knew that's, you know,

(15:40):
my, my children might struggle with this as well.
So I wanted to be that role model to them.
So I went and got my, my master's degree as well, you
know, so I, I want to make sure that, you know, because I was
pushed, you know, by my incredible family to be my very,

(16:01):
very best. That's in return, you know, when
you know, you know, I have a daughter that's in second grade
and she has a tough day, you know, and when we do those
things, you know, that, that sheknows that, that dad understands
it's going to be hard. There's, there's that path

(16:22):
forward if you really work hard and, and, and, and put in the
extra work to, to make sure that, you know, there's, there's
a successful path and, and she can become whatever she decides
to be. You know, I thought, you know,
that was, you know, I'll give my, my grandpa the biggest shout
out in the world is, you know, he worked in the steel mills and

(16:46):
you know, my cousins did that. My, my dad drove a, a a truck
over the road his entire life, but he would just gush about his
family. I was a very average collegiate
athlete and we'll get, I'm sure we'll get to that.
But I, I, I could still rememberrunning at Purdue and, and I
think I got second in the slow heat, but he thought it was the

(17:08):
greatest thing ever. And, you know, he would go to
the grocery store that next weekand, you know, anybody that
knows my grandpa knows that he'sa talker, but he would, he would
cornier in, in the, in the milk aisle and tell you about the
race that I just ran. And he was so proud of, of his
his sons and, and, and daughter and, and, and just, you know,
being the very best, you know, worker in the steel mill or, or

(17:31):
at the trucking company that my work my dad worked for.
And, and, you know, I, I think being around that growing up,
you know, it, it really just kind of reinforces it.
It doesn't matter what you do, but in my family, you better be
the very best at it. You know, I, I think that's
important when we were talking about, you know, the impact

(17:53):
coaches make and our parents make, and then maybe the impact
your coaches made, you know, youtalked about we will get into
your, your college years here ina little bit, but you, you know,
I'll say society, but it's easy.Let's just say it this way.
It's easy. And I don't like to blame social
media because before social media, newspapers did this as
well and the local coffee shop would do this.

(18:17):
It's easy to pick up and talk about the stud, you know, in
track and field, the stud athlete in track and that, you
know what they're doing and they're setting records are
going to state and all those kind of things.
And it's a little bit harder to know that.
Oh well, there's a hundred kids on the team and even that 100th
kid is important it no, they're not the record setters, but

(18:38):
that's OK, because guess what? There's a hundred other kids
that aren't on the track team that are doing this.
And you can insert any sport youwant on the football team,
tennis team, etcetera, in that, you know, the, the percentage of
kids that go on to be a college athlete is, is super small.
I think it's like, I, I know there's no like official
records. We'd like to do it off the
incident of lay records, but we forget that there's also any IA

(19:00):
opportunities and JUCO opportunities and things.
But it's, it's, it's under 10%. I would be willing to bet it's
still a single digit that going to college.
And then you know, the percentage that going from
college that can make any kind of living.
But however you want to define that as you know, post
collegiate is even smaller. So, so if so, if this sport
boils down to, well, only the kids that go to college matter
in our sport, well, golly, we'remissing 90 plus percent of the

(19:24):
individuals that do our sport. And by the way, that's just
because of statistics alone. That's where the majority of our
coaches are going to come from. Is that other 90% not the, the
superstar? So anyway, so, so I, I
appreciate that that kind of connection of like, well, if
you're going to do it, you're going to do it the best that you
can. And, and that matters just like
you said, the people who work inthe steel mill, that matters

(19:44):
just as much as the CEO of whatever big company, things
like that. We, we need, we need all and
everything in between. So I, I recognize that and big
time. How did you, you know, as you
were struggling academically, some people, everybody's a
little different and this may gotowards your your own children
now as you're talking about as aparent, you know you.

(20:06):
Outside looking in, had the ability to have a chip on your
shoulder, not a chip on your shoulder, but like, oh, I'll be
the first that that that's a form of chip on your shoulder.
You're not going against anybody.
But it's like, oh, I don't have this example in front of me of
my grandpa and my, and my my dadas far as going to college.
So I'm I've got I'm going to overcome that.
You know, you have children now who have a an example in front

(20:27):
of them of like, oh, wow, even with this, I can go on to
college and become very successful.
So they're not going to have that chip on their shoulder.
They're going to have their a different battle to over
overcome. How did you think about like
when you're thinking about college and even athleticism
with because again, percentage is small.
I mean, just going to college would have been a big deal.
You would college actually compete?

(20:49):
That's that's unbelievable. Actually, many of us don't.
I didn't, I didn't get to compete in college.
How did you, was it a chip on your shoulder?
Was it I'm going to overcome theodds?
Was it just I just want to be a college athlete?
How did you think about those next steps?
And as it relates to like maybe the influence your coaches had
on that feeling as well? Yeah, you know, so, so I, I went

(21:13):
to the University of, of Saint Francis I, I signed there and,
and was there for two years and it was pretty similar to.
In Indiana. In Indiana.
Fort Wayne. Because we have one here in in
Illinois as well and there's probably a couple others out
there. So, yeah, yeah.
That's got it. Fort Wayne, IN.
Hold on, I know this the the Saints, right?
No, they're, they're the Cougars.

(21:35):
Cougars. They're they're blue and white,
if I remember. Yeah.
OK, I had that right. OK, the Cougars.
Got it. OK, keep going.
They're the Cougars so and, and it was, it was pretty similar,
you know, I was just doing enough to to kind of get back
by, you know, I think the biggest difference for me, you
know, between high school and college.

(21:56):
In high school, my mentors were always my teachers and my
coaches. And to this day, those are
people that, you know, they're top of my list, you know, people
that that I want to make sure that I, I don't let down.
But in college, I didn't really have that relationship with a

(22:16):
coach. It was with my teammates that
really pushed me to do those things.
So, you know, at Saint Francis, you know, I something
incredible, you know, roommates that I still stay in touch with,
but. Before we get into actual
college, go back to high school,sometimes well meaning adults
and and almost stay focused on your your track coaches there

(22:38):
don't want our kids to fail And and I say well meaning because
failure is a part of life and wehave to allow our kids and
ourselves to to fail, try new things and fail did.
How was there the the high school coaches you had when you
know you weren't a great athlete?
I'm hearing per SE, we know you struggled academically.

(23:00):
It's a little bit like a mirror.By the way, I it wasn't a great
student either and definitely was not the greatest athlete.
But I wondered what was their attitude towards you when you
started getting into you maybe junior and senior year of high
school? Like, man, I love this sport.
I want to keep doing this. Was there any like, Hey, Kevin,
you know, just going to college is going to be a big deal for

(23:22):
you and your like, was there anyof that or was it like complete
encouragement? I was like, dude, go try.
You might not do well by the way, but go try it.
What was there kind of trying toprotect you from being from
failing as A to being a college athlete?
Or was there like encouragement of like, man, go go give it a
try buddy. No, that they encouraged me
100%, you know, when and you know, that's what gave me that

(23:43):
confidence. You know, I, I think, you know,
I, I think in anything that you do, whether it be coaching,
whether it be in, you know, in sales or, you know, you know,
making steel, you know, if you have that safety net where
you're not, if you're not afraidto try something that might
might be successful because you're afraid to fail, I think

(24:03):
having that safety net is so important.
And, and that's what they gave me.
They gave me that safety net. You know, I think they saw my
passion and my work ethic. They, they saw me have success
on the track that would in return, you know, find me some
success in the classroom. You know, I, I really turned
that around, you know, you know,you know, I, I made the honor

(24:26):
roll a few times in, in high school after that, you know,
they, they challenged me with those things and, and really put
a lot more effort into, you know, doing the, the things that
I I needed to do to be successful.
You know, without their encouragement, I would have
never take taken to SAT, you know, with, without their
encouragement, I wouldn't have taken it a second time.

(24:47):
So I could have gotten into University of Saint Francis, you
know, and you know, it was a, itwas a special moment, you know,
for them following my college career and, and still to this
day, I'm, I'm super close with that group.
That's cool. All right, one of my favorite
cool. Actually, before I ask my
favorite question, what kind of track athlete were you?

(25:10):
And what I mean by that? I honestly, I don't know that
I've ever asked a single guest what their actual PRS were,
because it doesn't matter to me whether you're and and we've had
Olympians on here and we've had people and we have people that
haven't even didn't even do track on the show as well.
So I don't really care that type.
When I say what type of athlete were you?
What I mean is as it relates to,you know, spoiler, we know you
become a track coach. Were you the type of athlete

(25:31):
that like asked a lot of questions like, Hey, what are we
doing for the workout today? What why did we do this
yesterday and this today? Not in a accusatory, but like in
a mindset or were you like, because, because this is the
majority of us, right? We're just, we're, you know,
we're dumb 1718 year old kids. We're just like, all right, what
are we running today, coach? All right, let's go do it.
You know what? What kind of like athlete were
you back as a you know, as a teenager?

(25:52):
I, I was, you know, I was a hugedork in general in pretty much
anything I did, but, but especially when it came to, to
track and field. So I was doing the research.
I mean, we're at the age right now where like, you know, I, I,
I think, you know, high school was the first time that I, I
ever got Internet at my house. You know so.
Is that one like there's like 3 computers in high school who we

(26:13):
went to? It's crazy to think that, but
anytime that I could jump on, you know, any website that was
about track and field, you know,I would go to Barnes and Noble
and look in the sports section. If they had any books about
training or anything like that, you know, I was buying them, you
know, and I was trying something, you know, and I, I

(26:33):
think, you know, you know, Fast forward to where I'm at right
now. What, what has made me
successful in, in what I'm doingright now is because I had to,
to, to get every oz out of myself, you know, any secret
that was out there, I better find or else I was going to get
my butt kicked pretty good, you know.
So, you know, I think, you know,I think, you know, you know,

(26:54):
Fast forward to what I'm doing now is, is having those, those,
you know, being, you know, average and trying to be a
little step above average, You know, I had to work that extra
hard, you know, and, and my coaches saw that, you know, and
I think any coach that that, that sees that and sees that
work ethic really gravitates that, that, that student

(27:15):
athletes, you know, so, you know, it was, it was awesome.
So one of my favorite questions because I'm the guy I used to do
this more. I haven't done this actually as
much in the last 5-6 years. Whenever I'd get introduced to a
new coach like, Oh, this is our GA or you know, this is their
first full time job, I'd always say So what did you major?
And you know, they always invariably tell me something

(27:36):
super smart chemistry architect,you know, all this stuff and I'd
be like, and and yet you want tobe a track coach.
Like you could be doing so many amazing things And and you know,
no one's a big fan of track coaches that I am, but I'm like,
you could be curing cancer and you're going to try to make this
kid PR in the eye job. What what are you doing?
You know, but but what I get outhere with this question is so
when you're looking to go to college and you end up going to

(27:57):
University of Saint Francis there in Indiana, what were you
thinking about like to major in like it still boggles me that we
make 18 year olds pick like something that's going to affect
their lives for. The.
Rest of their lives. It's crazy.
What were you thinking about? Was track coaching coaching
track at all in the purview as a1718 year old kid?

(28:17):
Oh, not even close. You know, I, I wouldn't have
known, you know, when I was 1718year olds going to college, what
that path to become a, a collegetrack coach was all about, you
know, exactly. So, so my, my biggest mentors
were, were my, my high school coaches, you know, so I
originally went into, into, you know, physical education, you

(28:38):
know, and, and wanted to kind ofcome become a, a teacher and,
and, and coach. Umm, I quickly found out that
wasn't for me, you know, and kind of switched to business.
So my focus, you know, you know,that was, you know, in the days
of, you know, movies like BoilerRoom and yeah, things.
So that's what I was going to do.

(28:59):
I was going to do it the legit way.
So the FBI didn't come right off, but.
Hey by the way, shout out if youhave not seen it.
I don't know that it's that big of a movie, even though it has
not It's incredible. Yeah, yeah.
I can't even think of yeah. It's a really like if you like
like what's a similar esque, like theme wise movie would be

(29:21):
like the wolf of Wall Street. Now that focus very much on that
dude. Jordan, I think was his name,
another great movie, by the way,but it but if you like, if you
remember that, if you saw a Wolfof Wall Street, remember that
scene where he gets his first job and he, you know, he calls
the, you know, the the people tosell in the stock and everybody
like, wow, holy crap, that's what the room is.
They're just trying to sell penny stocks essentially and

(29:42):
make the Commission and yeah, all that stuff.
It's a really good movie, but again, I don't know that a lot.
Of people. Know it so you got to check it
out. I agree.
I love, I love that it was like inspiration for you.
Like, yeah, it's all blowing theroom.
It was like, I'd like to do thatlegally, but I'd like to do
that, yeah. You know, you know, they, they
were, they were driving the, youknow, the fast cars.
But, but that's what I wanted todo, you know, and you know, I, I

(30:03):
graduated and you know, it was, it was a tough, you know, we
were in, during the recession when I graduated and it was a
tough job market, but I was lucky enough to, to get that
dream job. You know, I got a, a corporate
sales position at a company called Echo Global Logistics,
still based in, in Chicago. It said, you know, right when I

(30:23):
took the position and it went public, you know, I think they
were making $300 million back then, multiple billion dollar
company now. But I always, I went, you know,
talking with my recruits, you know, I talk about my journey,
but you know, I, I really pushedthem to, you know, don't think
what I was thinking. I wanted to make a bunch of
money. You know, my goal was to live

(30:45):
downtown Chicago, go to as many White Sox and Bears games as
possible. And, and I had no idea, you
know, my, you know, my, my whole, you know, life outlook
is, is based on one movie. You know, I, you know, it's,
it's, you know, and, and Hollywood is going to, you know,
glamorize everything, you know, but I quickly learned, you know,

(31:06):
going in sales, especially doinglogistics, you know, so that
was, that was the company, you know, we were shaking things
across the country, you know, and I found some success with
that, but my day literally revolved around getting Slim
Jims from point A to point B, you know, you know, and, and I,

(31:28):
I felt, felt no passion in that.You know, it was a pain in the
butt when my driver missed the delivery or something was, was,
you know, damaged in, in the process and, and it was just
miserable. And, and, you know, throughout
my college career, I always, youknow, went back to Hobart and

(31:51):
helped out, you know, in a, in avolunteer role or, you know, a,
a small paid stipend role, you know, so, so again, you know, it
took the, the encouragement, youknow, from, you know, that those
high school coaches to, you know, well, if you're not
passionate about what you're doing, go find something that
you are passionate about. And then that's really kind of

(32:14):
what made me make that change from from the business world to,
to intercollegiate athletics. So.
What was the first change? Yeah, what was the first change
into that? So what was the first job into
athletics? So, so the first, so you know,
kind of, you know, I was at a low point, kind of miserable
with what I did. And, and I met this guy.

(32:35):
I know you know him, Doug Eggert, you know, you know, and
you know, I drove to Fort Wayne where I went to school, so I was
familiar with it. And he gave me this incredible
offer. He said, I'm going to pay you
$0.00 and you can get your master's degree for free.
Well, I'm like I, you know, I would rather have the money, but
if this gets my foot in the door, you know, let's, let's do

(32:57):
it, you know, and I had some money saved up, you know, from,
from working. That's, you know, I, I took the
the leap of faith. How long did you do the job at
Echo? So I was just there for a little
over a year and I was. How do you, you know, it's
interesting, I've actually seen both sides to this as, as advice

(33:19):
and I and I actually kind of believe in both sides a little
bit. When you're young, you know, you
graduated college, you're 2223 ish, maybe 21 ish.
You know, you have so much life ahead of you.
It's the time to take a risk, Meaning try this job.
Like, like I, I get this advice from a guy named Gary Vee where
he talks about like, you know, what you want to do for a job

(33:41):
and career like a buffet, like go taste like, Oh, you, you
think maybe shipping logistics, go try that job and you think
track coaching, go get an internover here.
Because even if you're at the age of 30 and you still don't,
and maybe that's when you finally decide, Oh, I want to go
do this XY or Z Dude, 30. That's I know when we were
teenagers, we thought 30 was like, I thought 30 was like 1

(34:01):
foot in the grave, like you weredead at 30.
In reality, now I'm like, dude, 30.
I finally found my career. That's 30 is when I started Gil.
That's my third career. I finally found what I was put
here for. But then I've also heard the
very opposite of like, oh, because you're so young, get a
job so we can put all, you know,as much money into, you know,
your retirement because of compounding interest, you'll be

(34:21):
a millionaire when you retire, things like that.
But there has to be some, I shouldn't say that what level of
fear. You know, you're in a job, you
got a job that's, I hate to say that's not easy.
I mean, you know, a job that's, you know, at least well paying
enough that you can live and things like that to go into
coaching. You've never Co you were helping

(34:43):
out. I get that.
But oh, and by the way, we're not going to pay you.
So there's a little bit of like,OK, wait a minute, I'm getting
paid at least every two weeks. I'm going to go do this.
How much fear? Or was it like super simple,
like, OK, I just I hate this logistics job so much.
I'm willing to go get paid 0 to get away.
From it, no, it was, it was the,it was the easiest decision that

(35:06):
I've ever made in my life. You know, leaving that, that,
you know, Doug's office, you know, it was a really cool, you
know, time in, in, in the, the history of the India Tech
program. You know, he was just taking
over as head coach. You know, really, you know, the,
the program itself was in a really bad place.
You know, the, the the coaches that he took over for just

(35:29):
weren't very good people, you know, weren't coaching for the
right reasons, made everything about themselves, You know, kind
of put fear, you know, in in thestudent athletes, you know,
threatening to to take away scholarships and things like
that for, you know, based on performances and things like
that. So it was, it was just in a
really bad space, but we had some amazing kids that were

(35:52):
hungry to get better and wantingto do the things the right way,
you know, So the the my first practice, the first time I was
in the office with Doug, like itwas, I knew this is what I
wanted to do for the rest of my life all.
Right pause there because I definitely want to click into
that because I'm always I wish Icould remember like my first day

(36:13):
of Gil, my first day of coach. Like I wish I had those memories
and you seem to have that. So I'm going to click on that
first. I've got to give Doug a shout
out. He Gil podcast alum.
So if you're whatever podcast after you're using now, when you
get done with this episode, you can listen to Doug and he is and
tell you how popular Mr. Doug ishere.
You know, NAIA national champion, I don't know, a
billion times or something like that.

(36:34):
He is, you know, we're past episode 300 now he is out of all
our episodes, he is he's hangingon, but he is number 10 most
downloaded, most listened to episode.
And I think I love that. I love that blue schex Nader's
number one first of all, cuz that's my mentor and you know,
big school SU and all those kindof things.
I love that. But I love that a coach from
Indiana Tech is number 10 out ofall the amazing coaches we've

(36:57):
had, by the way. So go check his episode out.
All right, Kevin, first day, first practice.
Your face shine. By the way, when you kind of
intern, I can see you playing the movie in your head like a
duck to water. You just fell into it and this
was like, this is the greatest thing in the world.
Absolutely. I'll I'll even back that up to

(37:19):
the interview. So I mean, Doug is, is, is this
super unique guy. You know, we we sat in the
interview and he he added up thethe conference meet.
This is this is the middle of the summer.
It's probably end of July. You know, we're we're two weeks
away from reporting as well. And they hadn't won conference,
you know, in the past couple years.
But he, you know, he, he mapped it out.

(37:40):
This is what we're going to do here.
This is what we're going to do here and we're going to win a
conference championship. You know, so it was just, and
that's something that I still will do.
You know, I'll come in, you know, middle of of indoor season
and every month Monday I'm looking at, you know, T fers,
I'm looking at the list. I'm I'm kind of, you know,
seeing where we're at when it comes to those things.
So immediately from from day one, that's something that that

(38:03):
dog put in my head. How much?
Let's just talk about this. You know, I should have named
the podcast The Tangent Podcast because your host here is a
tangent guy. Now I'm going to self admit that
I also did this as well. So I have this picture exactly
what you're talking about, this kind of beautiful mind picture.
You've got, you know, 60 and the200 and the 460 hurdle and you
got all the, you know, you got this school there, you know,

(38:26):
this athletes peg for number 1 and blah, blah, blah.
We need this many points and blah blah.
Why do we do this to ourselves? And what I mean by that is you
have been through enough conference meets and national
meets and such like that, that there's always not even one,
there's a handful of just thingsthat go that you just no one
ever predicted the kid, you know, the the favorite and the
hurdles falls. And so there goes those 10
points and now you're up two point.

(38:47):
Why do we map this out? It just seems, I don't know that
a football coach maps out their entire game of like, OK, well,
they're going to score on their first one and then we'll stop
them for two defenses. But we do as track coaches all
20 something events. We try to predict the future and
it and I've had coaches come on here and say, oh, and I I had it
down to the point. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
maybe, maybe. But the the addition to those

(39:11):
points did not map out how you said it because someone dropped
a baton. Somebody had a huge PR that you
didn't see, you know, things like that.
Why do we do this to ourselves? And I know you learned it from
Doug. Why does Doug do this and pass
it on to to you? Yeah, because we just want to be
stressed the entire time, you know, we want to, we want to do
those things. No, it's it's our our, our, our

(39:32):
competitive nature. Do you think, do you think it's
actually here's here's here's what we believe is now, you
know, I sit on a different fence.
So when I coached for 10 years, I, I was this monkey that did
it. You know, here's the here's
exactly how it's going to go down.
It never happened. I wonder now having you know
again, I I sit in a pretty unique place.
I have deeply interviewed 300 plus coaches of all levels.

(39:55):
I wonder if it's our grasp at trying to keep control.
Yeah, I could see that, you know, I know, you know, when I
do it, you know, I'll bring it down to to my my student
athletes, you know, to kind of create that confidence.
Hey, you know, hey, yeah, I think, you know, you know,

(40:17):
because we, I think every coach has has a different way of doing
those things. Like I'll, you know, if it's
tied in the 60, I'll, I'll take every, both of those athletes
top three times and average it out.
And I'll use that to, to motivate my student athlete.
Like, hey, you know, yeah, so and so might be 100th of a, you

(40:38):
know, second faster than you, but your average, you're just
more consistent. And that's what matters at a
championship and, and, and things like that, you know, So
everything that I do, I, I, you know, I, I try to kind of bring
that, that, that confidence whenit comes to the to those student
athletes, you know, but yeah. Do you use it for that athlete?
Probably typically male, to be honest with you, from my

(41:00):
experience that says, coach, I'mgoing to win the, I'm going to
win the 100 or whatever event and you're like, all right,
let's look at this. Johnny, you're, you're 10th
right now. And by golly, I'd love for you
to be #1 you're going to have toPR by 3/10.
And I haven't seen that you everuse that.
Not not AI used to say, you know, the difference between
coaching men and women, men and women in my experience has been

(41:20):
with men every every male broad swipes here, no matter how good
or how bad, no matter how much like, you know, they were all in
on practice or they, you know, skip practices, things like
that. They all thought they're going
to win the friggin gold medal atthe Olympics.
And so I always had to like bring them down a peg of like,
hey, you want to do that? Here's the things you're going
to have to do every woman again,big swats here that I've ever

(41:41):
coached, no matter how great or you know, not so athletically
talented they were never thoughtthey could win anything.
And it was so with women. It was always like, I'm trying
to pick like you can win that and I prefer that, by the way,
than. The Hunter Room.
So do you ever had that with Johnny?
Like Johnny, you say you're gonna win, but boss, come on,
look where you at. And by the way, you missed
practice last Monday. How's that?

(42:01):
A conference winning attitude. Exactly.
Yeah, You know, we, we, you know, as as a coach, you know,
we always do the goal settings and things like that.
And, you know, I'll use it both ways.
You know, I'll use it to motivate them and show them,
hey, you know, your goal was to be top three and you won the
conference championship. That's all.
But on the flip side, you know, when when you do got that Johnny

(42:23):
and he's 5 minutes late to practice, you always throw it
back at Johnny. You're.
Like why am I not a full ride coach?
Exactly. Your 10th, your 10th, yeah.
Yeah, you know, I'm like Johnny,you know, conference champs not
5 minutes late, you know, I don't know, Conference champ
isn't, you know, asking to to lift early on Friday so you can
go to the high school football. Game oh, wait a minute.

(42:44):
So I haven't coached in 20 years.
That still happened because. That's still happened.
OK, as I said, because I as soonas you said that, I was like, Oh
my God, how many times have I heard that in my life?
Oh my God, that still happens. Holy crap.
Yeah. Fridays.
Can we go early? Yep.
Exactly, you know. So and they still show up late.
Even if you make it early, they still show up late sometimes.
Exactly. Kids.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's crazy what we

(43:06):
do. So and by the way, T versus, you
know, I don't have T first when I coach.
That has made all this stuff a lot easier to do that.
All right off our tangent back into it.
You, you're you start working for Indiana Tech.
How much for a guy like Doug? Doug's a very you know, and
again, you go back and listen tothe podcast.
You know, there's a reason why II I I distinctly remember the

(43:29):
program was not very good. There was a pretty bad place
into what Doug has raised it up.Now how much I'm going to say
trust, and I'm not sure that's the necessarily the right word,
but it's the essence of it. How much of A leash did he give
you? You're a brand.
You ain't coached, you know you're brand new.
You don't know you. You repeat it.
That's awesome that that that plays into your coaching, but
you don't know how to talk to a kid, how to convey what you're

(43:51):
what you want them to do verbally, examples, etcetera.
How much leash did he give you initially?
Yeah, he gave me a huge leash. Yeah.
It was really cool, you know? So it was a, you know, I, I look
at, back at that time as, as, asjust being such a important
place, you know, from where I'm at right now.
But you know what, between me and Doug and, and then Josh Wolf

(44:13):
was there as our, our cross country coach.
We are, you know, Doug, we're all the same age.
We all turned 40 this year, but Doug's birthday was in
September. Josh was, was in October, minds
in November. So we are sitting here 2425
years old. We are given the keys to the

(44:34):
this program that that I think, you know, all three of us felt
could be, you know, a national championship program and you
know, here you guys go figure itout, you know, so I learned a
lot from, you know, the different recruiting styles from
Doug and Josh that first year that that has, you know,

(44:55):
continued to to to help me in terms of recruiting.
Doug is relentless when it comesto those things.
He is, you know, no one, you know, calls as many kids that he
does, has as many visits as as he does.
It's just absolutely incredible.So from the first time sitting

(45:16):
in with him, making those those phone calls late at night or
sitting with him at one of his his campus visits, you know, I
really kind of found your my my own way to kind of recruit.
And the three of us just kind ofwent and, you know, divided and
conquered, brought in a really, really great class.
You know, I was only at Indiana Tech for one year, but that

(45:38):
recruiting class was, was, you know, I think that Doug would,
would, would agree is, is reallythe defining, you know, class
of, of what has become, you know, Indiana Tech.
You know, I think 16, maybe 18. I'm I'm not sure I lost count.
I'm not, you know, Aston finger saying I'm not good with count
counting toads. You know, I've lost count.

(45:59):
But I mean, what an incredible journey he has done.
Like like I said, we are 40 thatthat that guy right there has an
indoor facility named after. Him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We explored that.
Like how do you keep your ego incheck with that all?
Right. It is is I wouldn't incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
I'd be like, yeah, just meet me at my building.
Oh, and you'll know it because my name's.

(46:20):
I mean, I would continually do that with.
Everybody like, how does, how does that work?
You know, you know, I have I have some visits on campus
tomorrow and we're going to meetin the Gary Hughes.
You know, that's that's where we're going to meet.
How do you spend that? Like, hey, you know, we're going
to meet at the Doug Edgar. That's true.
That's true. Good.
How did you I remember those days.

(46:42):
So recruiting was a big aspect for me.
I, I really enjoyed that in my entire coaching career.
And I remember, you know, good friend of mine, Chris Baptista,
shout out to him, who's also a podcast alum.
He coached at Fresno State, Cal Poly.
He and I were together at Troy, the greatest university in the
world. And you know, we would be up
till midnight and this was really before Internet.
This is like when die stat was just yeah, nationally.

(47:06):
And I remember, you know, I say we he was the maniac.
I was there as well. But he would have a handwritten,
you know, legal pad of, you know, the top 4000 meter kids we
wanted to go after and probably 50 and and I just knew it
relentless. You know, we, you know, we had
no money. So we would drive, you know, 8
hours into Florida for the statemeet or county meet or whatever.
And then 8 hours. But you know, we'd get home at

(47:27):
6:00 AM, seven AM. Things like that, things that I
look back now and I'm like, whatbunch of dummies?
Like, what were we thinking? There had to be other ways to be
more efficient and effective. How did you, when you see this
and because you're, you're learning like you're just
soaking up all this. You don't know how to recruit.
You were recruited, but that's, you know, you forgot about that.
I was, you know, I was an 18 year old.

(47:47):
Now you've got to do it. How did you see what was in
front of you with Josh and the way he did it, with the way Doug
he did it? You're, you know, you're a smart
enough guy. You probably talk to other
people at meets and things like that.
Those conversations come up. How did you figure out your own
style? Yeah.
How did you figure out your own style?
That that and you're probably still developing I would think
at especially early in this, this 24 year old age.

(48:10):
Yeah, you know, I've always beenpassionate about the sport, you
know, so I, I think recruits seethat, you know, I always tell my
recruits like if you, if you take one thing away from from
this visit, I want you to take, you know, how passionate I am
about this sport and, and the develop of my student athletes,
you know, and, and that was, really has been my approach from
from day one is, you know, again, I was making no money.

(48:35):
The only way that I can get a paycheck from the university was
getting, you know, reimbursing my miles.
So I went to as many high schoolmeets as possible in the fall.
I was, you know, being a Northwest Indiana guy and, and,
and Josh being, you know, from Northeast Indiana, you know, he
would be going, you know, to NewHaven for that semi final.

(48:57):
I'd be going to New Prairie. I'd be going to, you know, the,
the, the, the, the DAC conference and doing all those
things, you know, and I think I was getting paid like, you know,
$0.58 per mile. So I mean, that's better than
nothing, you know, It's, you know, helps help pay for a
little bit of food every every few weeks, you know?
So you spend a year there. I always like to ask, well, I

(49:20):
should say this way, I think it,I believe it should work.
It doesn't really, you know, when you're doing a GA work and
you're working your masters is kind of like a GA situation for
you. You know, when you finish your,
your, your masters, your graduate studies there.
I truly think it should still bea fork in the road.
Most of the time we're GA and it's like, oh, I'm doing this
only because I want to become a track coach.
I still think that there should be an off ramp.

(49:42):
Like you should figure out, likereally ask yourself now, do you
want to do this full time and for the rest of your life
basically? And that's OK if you don't, cuz
now you get, you have a great undergrad education and a great
master's education going on. How did you at the end of that
year, what was the decision to stay go go back into logistics?
You know, you're a smart guy. You had a lot of options and,
and network there. What was the what was that

(50:03):
decision point like? Yeah, after that year, I I got a
phone call from Sean Venable, who's who's at liberty right
now, the associate head coach. He's just incredible.
But he was at Bacon College in Muskogee, OK, And he had a full
time job, you know, wasn't paying a lot.
I think. I think I might have made
$25,000 that year. But he's like, hey, you know, I

(50:25):
want to bring you in for an interview, but I can't pay to
fly out here or do anything likethat.
So you're going to have to, you know, make the trip from from
Fort Wayne to, to, to Oklahoma on your own dime.
And I'm like, well, when do I leave?
You know, like, when, when can we meet, you know, like, let's,
let's do those things. And then, you know, I, I, I

(50:46):
worked, you know, with, with Sean, who was just, I mean, he
is, I mean, he's, he's incredible.
You know, talk about passion. You know, I talk about my
passion. Like, you know, I, I don't think
you could find someone more passionate about the sport life
in general than than than Sean and, and he's just absolutely
incredible. I I still love that guy to
death, but got got to, got to work, you know, full time for my

(51:11):
first time helping him out. It was just a A2 man team, you
know, so, you know, he, you know, he's like, can you coach
distance? I'm like, I can coach anything
that you want me to, as long as I get to hang out with the
sprinters from time to time. I'll do anything, you know, So I
was hired there to coach the distance program and and, you
know, halfway through the semester he's like, you're going

(51:33):
to coach throws too. I'm like, okay, well, we'll do
that too. You know, small NAIA program,
you know, we had a lot of success with that.
And, you know, it was just an incredible, incredible year with
Sean. How did how did he fight?
You know, this is we're we have Internet for sure, but it's not
like it is today. And I will probably say that
every year of my life for the rest of my life.

(51:54):
But like, how did he find you? You know, this Indiana kid, he's
over in Oklahoma. How did he find you to reach out
for the job? Well, I, I think you know what,
what Doug was building in Indiana Tech, you know, Indiana
Tech starting that year was really making a name for itself
in the NAIA and Bacon College, super small school.
I don't, I don't think it existsanymore.

(52:16):
I think that they closed the thedoors a few years ago, but but
Sean was doing it all on his own, you know, so was able to
get this full time position, youknow, and I think he saw that
development of, of what Indiana Tech had became and really
wanted that to, to, to really kind of be what they cone would
become as well. You know, So I think, you know,

(52:39):
through a couple, you know, and,and this is what our sport's all
about. It's it's just kind of, you
know, buddies and things like that.
You know, I think that this would be a good guy, you know,
people that you trust, you know,and, and, and my name was, was
brought up and it was, you know,I think it was a phone call or a
Facebook message or something like that.
And I think the next day I was on the road to to to Oklahoma.

(53:05):
Sean, I've known Sean for a longtime, absolutely is the kind of
guy who observes. So that, that makes a lot of
sense. OK, Kevin, you grew up in
Northwest Indiana, you know, call it Chicago adjacent.
You go to northeast Indiana. All I'm hearing is Indiana
though, and now you go to Oklahoma.
Now I, I used to live in coach in Kansas and recruited Oklahoma

(53:28):
a lot. It's a little different,
although there's some similarities, but there's some
unique differences. Even so much of just geography,
you're away from family and friends and things like that.
How did you adjust to that? It was a challenge, you know,
it, it really was, you know, youknow, obviously I had a great
role model with Sean there. We spent a lot of time together,

(53:50):
but it was different, you know, it was Muskogee, OK.
You know, I'm not knocking the city, but yeah, but it is way
different than than Fort Wayne IN way different than anything
that I had experienced. You know, there there wasn't
much to do. You know, a Friday night got a
little crazy when you went to Walmart twice, but because you

(54:11):
forgot, you know, the laundry detergent the the first time you
did that. Because, you know, still to this
day I don't write a a list of what I do because I think it's
all up here. Drives my wife nuts, you know.
You know. She's listening right now.
She's like. Exactly.
Yep, Yep. You know, and she's like, yeah,
you know, 'cause it's probably, she's listening to it, going to

(54:32):
Walmart to pick up the milk. I forgot, but you know, so, but
the kids were, were wonderful, you know, and you know, I think
that's the thing, you know, eventhough, you know, from a, a
social network, I didn't have much, you know, it was a very
different culture than what I was used to.
But when it comes to track and field, no matter where you're

(54:56):
from, you know, it's it stays the same.
The 100 meter stays the same, the mile stays the same.
That desire to become great stays the same.
So being around those, those, those student athletes, you
know, really kind of helped me get through, you know, some of
the, some of the difficulties of, of not having that support
system. How?

(55:17):
Different is it for you as a coach, You do a year where
you're not getting paid anything.
You're you're making mileage andnow you got your first full time
job as small as the salary was, I get it.
But you know, every two weeks oronce a month they, they gave you
a check and you got to cash it and they didn't take it back.
How does that change your I don't know if motivations right

(55:40):
where I don't say psyche in regards to like like it's a,
it's a profession now. I, I, I am, I am on record as
saying I dislike volunteer coaches, not the people.
I just dislike not paying people.
I, I, I, I'll say I fought our internship program.
I was not on board with us having interns here at Gill

(56:01):
because we was like, Oh, you know, we'll do free interns.
And I'm like, man, I just, I just have a hard time bringing
a, you know, I say a kid becauseI'm the age I'm at, you know, no
matter what we're having them do, I just, they got to get paid
something. I just feel like, and we do now
and then we have interns and they're amazing.
I love every intern we've had from typically from University
of Illinois. So I dislike volunteer coaches
in that sense, like they got to get paid something.

(56:23):
I just feel like that. How does that for you when you
start thinking about now I'm I am I am Coach Patterson.
This looks like this might be mycareer.
I'm now getting a check versus Iwasn't, you know, last year.
I mean from, from day one that this is what I wanted to do for,
you know, my entire life, you know, that's something that,

(56:44):
that I loved. So I, I treated it like a
profession when I was getting paid $0.00 and having to go to
class at night just because thatwas, that was, that was part of
my payment. You know, there's a lot of times
where, you know, I'm sure my professors didn't, didn't like
it. But if, if you know, if it was
econ class or a big meet with a recruit that we're, you know,
trying to get after econ class, you know, kind of took took the

(57:07):
back seats back in those days, you know, but and that's
something that, you know, still to this day, I've, I've 2GA S,
you know, on staff here at, at Central Missouri.
You know, I, I encourage them, Hey, treat this like a
profession, like if this is something that you want to do
for the rest of your life, you can't just naturally, you know,
turn that switch on where? OK, well, now I'm getting a

(57:28):
paycheck. Now I have to do XY and Z.
If you haven't done XY and Z before getting that paycheck it
it makes it that much more difficult in terms of.
I assume you have those same types of question or
conversations with walk ONS. It's like.
Hey, you don't just. Turn it on, because I give you a
scholarship. You've got to be showing it as
the walk on first. Yeah.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.Absolutely.

(57:50):
You know, so that's, that's how I've always approached it.
And, you know, anyone that's, you know, looks to me as a
mentor, that's, that's the, you know, the first piece of advice
that I do. Because if, if you've gone
through a graduate assistant position and, and you never took
a lead in the recruitment process, that is the time to

(58:11):
learn it, you know, because with, you know, a full time
position and things like that become other responsibilities.
You know, you know, you got to go to, you know, you got to meet
with AD, you got to do this, yougot to, you know, meet with
admissions where, you know, those are things that, you know,
as a graduate assistant, Doug would always do.
You know, the, those 9:00 AM, you know, meetings with, you

(58:34):
know, the ADI never had to attend, you know, so I could
stay up until, you know, 2:00 inthe, in the the morning, you
know, looking at results and, and emailing recruits and things
like that, because I, I knew that I could kind of wander into
the office, you know, at 10:00, you know, if Doug's listening,
he'll probably say it was probably a little bit later than
that. But, you know, so, you know,

(58:57):
that's where I kind of learned to kind of grind, you know, and,
and as I took my first, you know, you know, full time
position, you know, I was single, you know, I was able to
kind of continue to do those things.
And and that's, you know, if youcan't recruit in this, this, it
doesn't matter what type of coach you are, If you can't
recruit, you're, you're not going to be very successful.
So how long at bacon? So I was there for a year and

(59:20):
then, you know, I, I took another leap of faith and, and
took my first head coaching job at at 25.
I think I was at teeny tiny Calumet College in Saint Joseph.
And you know, so I, I took that team and I think I, my first day
was, was June first. It was right around regionals

(59:42):
time in in in the state of Indiana and I asked what my
roster looked like and they gaveme a, a list of I think four or
five names and then wished me wish me luck, you know, So,
yeah, we definitely didn't have a, a track team, let alone, you
know, a cross country team, you know, so we got to work, you
know, it's CCSJ Calumet College is is a super unique.

(01:00:08):
Institution it is. It is right across the street
from the BP oil refinery. Oh.
Wow. It is one building.
And when I started coaching there was one academic building,
one gym and it was, it was strictly commuter.
They they just built dorms. I, I think two or three years
ago, but it was, it was a, a jobthat, that some of those people

(01:00:33):
that, that I really kind of trusted, kind of tried to steer
me away from because they, they didn't think it could be
successful. You know what?
Was the reason for taking that job.
And what I mean by that is, and by the way, no judgement of what
the actual reason was here. There's lots of reasons we take
jobs. Was it more pay?
Was it get back to the Midwest? Was it like, I want to learn how

(01:00:56):
to become a head coach? So what's a better way to do it
than become a coach? Was it?
Oh no, I see the diamond in thisrough.
What was the actual motivation? I was immature and then thought
that I could be a head coach. Yeah.
No, I think that's what it was. You know, I think if I, you
know, I've always been willing to kind of take a chance on
myself. But you know, until, you know,

(01:01:20):
Carol walked into my life, you know, around this time, you
know, my, my wife, you know, I was a knucklehead.
You know, if I didn't have her, who knows where I would be right
now, you know, but I would make those rash decisions because,
you know, as a, you know, a graduate assistant and then a

(01:01:40):
full time assistant coach, you're, you're always looking
to, you know, what kind of take that next step to become the
head coach. And, and CCSJ offered me that
position, you know, so it, it, you know, it was this, this new
thing that, that, that I wanted to kind of show, you know,
everyone that, that I could become a head coach, I could
build a winning program, a winning culture, you know, So

(01:02:03):
that's, that's, that's why, why I took it, you know, and, and,
you know, it was 30 minutes fromwhere I grew up.
It was, you know, so, you know, being, being gone and, and on
the road with recruiting for really the past two years, you
know, I, I, I missed some, some things with my grandparents and,
and my parents and, and my, my siblings.

(01:02:24):
That's that, you know, it was, you know, spending, you know,
when you're, you're a track coach wherever you're at, you
know, especially during the season with Easter, you know,
you're, you're, you're doing it on your own.
You know, when, when you don't have a significant other, you
know, you're going to the track meet on, on on Saturday, you're
coming back and, and, and you know, Easter Sunday, you know,
you're sitting in front of the, the TV.

(01:02:46):
Who knows what I was eating. That wasn't a very, I still
still not a very good cook. Definitely was even worse back
then. So probably like cereal or
something like that on days likethat.
So, you know, having that opportunity to, to be around
family and then also, you know, staying, you know, I'm still
close with my, my high school, you know, coaches and things
like that. Those are, you know, still to

(01:03:07):
this day, some of my, you know, best mentors in, in terms of
those things. It was just a great opportunity.
Not, you know, a segment of us as track coaches believe we want
to be a head coach, another segment want to be, you know,
when they're ready, However you define that want to be head
coach, others don't want to be head coach at all.

(01:03:28):
And that's that's fine too. What was the biggest difference
now? Now you're a pup in this game.
You're a one year as a volunteerat Indiana Tech.
You're one year as a full time at Bacon and now you're a head
coach. So I don't even know that you
know what a head coach does. You're still where's the track
type of pup in your career here?What was the biggest difference

(01:03:49):
you noticed though, as far as you you do.
You were an assistant coach for two years, so you kind of know
the, I don't know, call the pecking order, but you know what
I'm responsible for, what they're responsible for,
etcetera. Now you're kind of responsible
for What was the biggest difference you noticed as as
head coach Patterson. Oh man, it's been so long ago.
I think the biggest thing is, and, and I think, you know,

(01:04:11):
every assistant coach will will admit to this if they like it or
not is, you know, the, the, the,the most difficult, you know,
position as a head coach is, youknow, having that, you know, the
financial discussions, you know,hey, you know, dad, you know,
lost his job or, you know, this isn't, you know, I didn't get
this scholarship like I'd hoped.I can't afford to do this.

(01:04:33):
Is there any more scholarship money available to those things?
You know, and as you know, we are like a lot of sports at the
NCAA and AI level, we're limitedin what we have spent.
So sometimes you have to say no to those things.
You know, as an assistant coach,that was always, oh, you want to

(01:04:53):
have that, have that discussion with the head coach.
And I was right back to recruiting, right back to to
training and things like that. So, so really kind of, you know,
being that that main point of of, of contact for everybody on
that team, you know, for the past two years, it was my
training group, you know, that'swho I was responsible for.
And you know, you know, whether it was Sean or whether it was

(01:05:16):
Doug or Josh or someone like that, you know, they were making
sure that, you know, we got lunch at the track meets.
That's, you know, we were eatingdinner at later and, and at the
end of the day, you know, we were making sure that we were,
you know, doing our receipts and, and balancing the budget
and things like that. So I think with any assistant
coach, whether you're doing thatposition for 10 years to, you

(01:05:40):
know, two years like myself is doing those those things.
I think one thing that really helped me is, is my business
background. You know, I was doing those
things. You know, I echo global
logistics, you know, I'm making sure that, you know, I was
sending out invoices, making sure the invoices were paid in a
timely manner. So I was already doing those
things. So it wasn't as big of a, you

(01:06:02):
know, difference as some other assistant coaches do.
But, you know, I think that's the biggest thing is, is, you
know, I always say when you're the head coach, you're the CEO
of the program, you know, whether you're, you know, like
me, I, I work with the, you know, our, our sprints groups,
you know, and I'm all over the place.
But you know, from a day-to-day operations like, you know, I'm,

(01:06:23):
I'm, I'm seeing the sprinters a lot more than I am the, the
throwers. But I have to make sure that,
you know, when you're on the top, you're making those
decisions that are going to affect everybody.
And you want to make sure that, you know, it's a good program
for for everybody from the sprinters to the throwers to the
distance runners. Yeah, that, that's a great point
about the background because I, I don't believe that we as head

(01:06:45):
coaches are preparing our assistant coaches to become head
coaches in the future. Very well, some, some we and
we've had them on the show, you know, very good at delegating
like hey, I'm going to have you do equipment, you're going to do
travel, etcetera, etcetera. But most of our assistant
coaches are coming into their first head coach just blinds.
Like, OK, I knew we had a budget, but I didn't know that,

(01:07:07):
you know, it had to be meted outby the different things.
And wait, I got to schedule buses and food.
You know, there, there's so much.
I think we could and should be doing a better job at that as,
as as head coaches. All right, Well, how how did it
go there? You're back home.
Is this where you meet your wife?
This is where I meet my wife, you know, So I mean, so I met my

(01:07:27):
wife, you know, out at an establishment in Chicago.
We kind of exchanged numbers. We had a track meet the next
day. So of course, you know, you
know, coming back, you know, I, you know, I just kind of shot
her a text to see if she wanted to, to meet up for a drink.
And that's, you know, you didn't.
Invite her to. You didn't invite her to the
track meet? No, no, no.

(01:07:48):
SO. Good, good job.
Yeah, yeah, no. Unless she's a trackie, that's
not your first day. Spending 16 hours, you know, in
a stuffy field house in February, that's, that's, that's
not an ideal date for anybody. Or, you know, if they stay with
you after that, it's like, well,you must be the right person
because that was pretty gruelling.
Absolutely. She's stepped through a million

(01:08:08):
track meets at this point. But that was, you know, in two
weeks, that'll be thirteen yearsago.
Wow. Very cool. 1st, 1st, 1st dates,
you know, we've been together ever since.
So she's gotten to see me through this journey, you know,
with, with everything that we'vedone, But it was, it was

(01:08:29):
incredible, you know, so being home, you know, meeting the one
and growing that program, you know, like I said, we, I walked
into a, a roster of about four or five athletes with it.
When that summer came through, we were, we were 30 plus we, we
fielded, fielded a fairly competitive cross country team.

(01:08:50):
My, my grandpa, I love him to death, You know, he, he passed
away, you know, about 10 years ago, But he was always my
biggest cheerleader and also my biggest critic.
He would, you know, grandma and grandpa and, and my mom and my
dad. I mean, they, you know, I could
probably count on one hand the, the amount of, of track meets

(01:09:13):
that they missed. But we're, we're at Loyola for
the lakefronts, you know, their cross country meets and we got
our butts kicked, Mike. It was bad.
And my, I could still, you know,remember my, my grandpa, you
know, coming up to me, this is like meet like 3 of my head
coaching career. You know, he's like, you guys

(01:09:33):
aren't very good. And we weren't, he was, he was
dead on, you know, but we fielded the team for the, the,
the first time without having touse the basketball team to make
sure that we're, we're, we're hitting those things.
So we're in the right direction,you know, but, you know, they
kind of come full circle with that.
You know, we we really grew thatprogram where we were 70 plus

(01:09:54):
athletes and really became very,very, very competitive, you
know, in the Chicago Collegiate Athletic Conference with some
really, really, really good teams, all of that Saint Francis
here, we're really, really good so.
How did you do that? And the reason I asked this,
because I know there are plenty of people listening right now

(01:10:15):
that either are in that situation.
I, I, I've got this program, could be high school, could be
college, doesn't matter. I've got four or five kids or,
you know, they don't know it yet, but in a year or two
they're going to take over a program that's four or five
kids. And you grew up to 30 initially
and then 70 that, you know, we believe.
And I believe healthy things grow.
So when I see a roster of five and it's 30 and it's like bravo

(01:10:38):
and that and I've done it once at the junior college, that's
not easy because you're trying to sell something that ain't
there. You know, we're going to have a
great team. Coach, you got five kids.
We're we our culture is this. What do you mean?
You got a culture? You got five kids.
What are you talking? You know, you're, you're
envisioning young people. How did how did you?
Can you give us any specifics onhow you accomplish that?

(01:11:00):
Man, if there was a high school track meet in Northwest Indiana
or the, you know, s s suburbs ofIllinois, they saw me, you know,
and you know, if if you didn't return that Facebook message or
that text or things like that, Iwas going to come find you.
You know, it was, it was those kids that I really felt that
could be game changers for us. I wanted to make sure that, you

(01:11:24):
know, in in this recruiting gamethat that they felt special, you
know, in terms of, of all those things.
So. How do you balance out you you
know your I'm gonna say your egocuz ego is not bad, bad ego is
bad. But your ego and your
competitiveness says you go lookat the you guys were in AI.

(01:11:45):
We're in AI. Yeah, as I say, you're very.
Yeah, you're an AI kid. Exactly.
You go look at NANAI nationals or maybe, you know, maybe
hopefully a little bit more realistically, you go look at
your conference and you say, OK,it takes X to score in this
event. Well, then I need to go recruit
those kids. But those kids are not at your
school for a reason, meaning they're at other schools for a
reason. How do you how do you balance?

(01:12:08):
I just need warm bodies. I always hate that term.
I'm sorry, but I think that conveys what I'm talking about
versus I'm going to go get the studs that I need, but I don't
really have anything to attract the studs that I need.
How do you balance, you know, almost some like long term of
like, OK, I need to get this type of athlete first and then
work up and then maybe in 3-4 years or whatever I can attract.
How do you balance that? Like I want to go up to the

(01:12:30):
studs, but I realize I don't really have anything to offer
them. Yeah, I mean, it's just finding
those kids that are going to be the right fit, you know, So, you
know, especially at CCSJ, I, I would find kids like myself, you
know, kids that, you know, we'repassionate about the sport,
maybe weren't the fastest, maybedidn't have the greatest grades,
but needed that, that, you know,that college coach to give them

(01:12:53):
that opportunity like I was given, you know, so like, like
I'm doing today, you know, I, I,I share my passion, I share my
story. I'm, I'm an open book with, with
these, you know, student athletes, you know, I, I think
that's what allowed me to get athletes that had never stepped
foot on that campus before, because they finally found, you

(01:13:15):
know, a coach that, that was willing to give them that
chance, that believed that they could be more, you know, because
we, we talked about the Johnniesearlier, you know, that that
wants to be that national champion.
Everyone wants to do that. And we've all had those, those
Johnnies that, you know, freshman year, we don't believe
that they could do those things.But then we see that growth in

(01:13:37):
them that hey, they they do become that that national
champion. When you say, you know, finding
the right fit, that's a very common like if I were to try to
write up the top 10 quips that acoach would say finding the
right fit is the top ten. Would you say though?
How many years were you Cal you met?
I was there for three years. Oh well, good job.

(01:13:58):
First of all, not one and done again there by the way, I was
going to see how long of this trend was going to last for you.
Over those three years, would you say that the kid that was
the right fit changed so the thekind of kid you were recruiting
year one fit, we're in this stratum of our program.
Well, year 2, hopefully if you're doing your job, you're in

(01:14:20):
a little bit different strength.So now the kid looks different.
So when I'm going to find the right kid that looks different
than the year before and then year three and then progress on,
would you say that? 100% you know, so you know where
CCS JS at, it's, it's right in, in your backyard in Whiting, you
know, the Hammond Whiting area, you know, so early on, you know,

(01:14:40):
we're right across the street from from BP oil refinery.
You know, so a lot of our kids came from the Hammonds, the
Gary's, the Merrillville's, the Hobarts because of my
connections. And as we kind of build those
things and, and, and those student athletes have have
friends, we were able to really kind of expand our reach to, to
more of, you know, the more of Northwest Indiana where we're,

(01:15:04):
you know, a lot of these kids, dads know exactly who we are
because they work at the steel mills, They work in BP.
So they're around our campus allthe time.
But when you work at BP auto refinery, like, like my kids, we
have a basketball game tonight. So they're going to come to my
office. We're going to watch the
basketball game, you know, if, if you're working, you know, in

(01:15:25):
the oil refinery, you know, I never went and saw my dad at the
steel mill. You know, that's just not
something that was happening. So those, those student athletes
don't know anything about us, you know, but moms and dads do.
So that allowed us to kind of, you know, really kind of, you
know, make that reach to, to much more than than just those,
those high schools that, you know, bordered the, the city of

(01:15:47):
Hammond and things like that. So it allowed us to to really
kind of grow those things. And we, we had a a story to
tell. You know, like I said, we took
over with five athletes and now,you know, we're top half of the
conference both in cross countryand track.
That's the progression that thisprogram is on.
Is that something that you're interested in?
You know, it doesn't matter how fancy a campus is or how many

(01:16:11):
fountains that you have on campus.
No kid wants to to go to a placenot to be compete at a high
level, you know, So I, I think, you know, it had, you know,
really tying into those competitive juices of student
athletes allowed me to to reallykind of get the athletes that
that had would have never thought of of CCSJ as well.

(01:16:34):
So three years there, you build up from 5 to 70 and, and that,
you know, I know our competitiveness wants us to be
in the top half in the conference and then the top
three and, you know, then win itor push to win and things like
that. But there is something to be
said about the competitiveness of having a roster.
I mean, there are plenty of people before you that didn't do
that job that, you know, you were better at than they were in

(01:16:55):
that sense. So so there's a little bit of
competitiveness of just again, Ihate to to use the term the warm
bodies term, but having a roster, having a roster actually
filled out is a much better thanhaving four or five kids.
Exactly. You know that you got to go get
a basketball player to fill out the the five for cross country.
Yes. So three years of CCCCCCSJ, you
do a great job there. Where do we go next and and why?

(01:17:16):
So, you know, after that I had the opportunity to, to take over
the Benedictine University program in, in Lisle, IL and
it's man, it was, I just fell inlove with that place.
You know, I, you know, was, was looking to get in the NC double
AI. Think it with, with any college
coach. You know, I'd ran in the NAIA,

(01:17:38):
coached in the NAIA, but really saw the NCAA as as just, you
know, the, the institutions thatare, are there.
You know, it's, it's just absolutely incredible.
The, the, the different model from NCAA to NAIA's.
It's, it's, you know, it's just something that I was really,
really interested in, you know, had a, a great interview with,

(01:17:59):
you know, the athletic directorsthere, Mark McCartney, Paul
Nelson, and really, you know, they wanted more out of their
program. And again, you know, I had some,
some mentors that thought I was crazy, you know, 'cause, you
know, you know, is, is, you know, and if you know, the other
people that aren't listening probably don't know that
Benedictine and North Central College are, are literally on

(01:18:21):
the same St. They're a mile and a half apart.
You know, where I think that there was this, this, you know,
this notion that, you know, you couldn't compete at a high level
when you got Al Karius and Grammy down the hill from you,
you know, because you know, it was a reality.
You know, any kid that that you know, comes to visit you is

(01:18:44):
going to go. You know, if they're at the 9:00
campus tour at Benedictine, they're going to be at the
12:30. You know, Central just makes too
much sense, you know, you know, you go to the tour, you eat at
Portillo's and then you go to the North Central, you know, so,
but man, I, I, I had an incredible, you know, interview

(01:19:07):
with them and, and made some bold claims that that I was
going to beat North Central at, at, at nationals before I had
left, you know, and it just worked out perfectly.
You know, I, I, I came home to my fiance at the time and she's
like, how'd it go? I'm like, it went really well,
but I think I might have promised a little bit too much,

(01:19:27):
but was lucky enough and, and a good, you know, I think this is
kind of a common theme early on in my career.
You know, it was a difficult situation.
So I took that position in January.
So we were literally like 10 days away from our first, you
know, competition on my first day on campus.

(01:19:48):
But it was just an incredible, incredible place.
How did you let's provide you'reproviding a ton of values.
Let's keep kind of clicking intothis.
I don't want to downplay any type of interview at Indiana
Tech and Bacon and CCSJ that youhad, but this feels like outside

(01:20:09):
looking in. I want to be careful with my
words here. This a big job, big opportunity
compared to those others. First of all, it's a head
coaching job. So we take out Indiana Tech and
and Bacon in that sense. CCSJ had five kids.
You know, I, I don't want to speak for them and say they were
desperate and, and they didn't hire you because they were

(01:20:31):
desperate. But meaning like other people
could have come in and did a quarter of what you did and, and
then went from 5:00 to 10:00 kids and they would have been
like, cool, we're happy we got aroster.
OK, You take over Benedictine, which had its issues, sure, but
you know, it was an established program, you know, has Big
Brother not even down the street, across the street type
of thing. How did you, I'm curious, how

(01:20:52):
did you prepare for the interview, whether that was
seeking advice from mentors, whether that was any kind of
Internet searching, like, how did you like?
OK, I got all right. I meet with a DS on Tuesday.
I want this job. I got to convey to them not only
that I'm ready, but that I want this job in that, you know,
hiring me is going to be the better route than the other 4-5

(01:21:15):
individuals that they may or maynot be interviewing.
How did you prepare for this? Yeah.
Yeah, no, this is a huge opportunity.
You know, I was getting married in July and this would be a, a
salary that, you know, I could raise a family on, you know, and
then that's just something that that CCSJ just wasn't.
That seems important. Yeah, you know, so, you know, so

(01:21:37):
there was, there was a lot, you know, going into it.
Like, like I've mentioned many times before, I am a dork.
I research everything. So I, I, I came up with a
packet. It, it was a, it was a
presentation. This, this goes back to my, you
know, business dice. This is why you should hire me.
And this is what we're going to do to get to the program where

(01:22:01):
we're back to winning conferencechampionships.
And it was, it was cool. You know, we had a lot.
So what's in I I've heard this before I I never did the you
know, I never well, I, I interviewed and got one head
coaching job, but they were in the CCSJ model.
They were like, you got a pulse mic cool.

(01:22:22):
We have 3 kids coming back job'syours, you know so packet would
have been waiting. They're like, yeah, whatever
dude, get us from 3 to 20 and then.
Just. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly cuz I so I hear about this packet a lot.
You know that other people this isn't original.
Sorry Kevin, but what's in that pack?
What are you trying to show the AD that packet?

(01:22:44):
You know, I think you know what,what a DS really want, you know
someone that is going to be, youknow, cuz AAD looks at at their
head coaches. That's so much more than just XS
and OS and wins and losses wherever I was, you know, part
of my job, and it still is, is when we have a big donor come to
make them feel like $1,000,000, you know?

(01:23:06):
So I think, you know, in that pack, it's kind of showing my
philosophies as a coach, but also, hey, this is also what I
bring to this athletic family, to this campus as well.
So I think this is important to to make sure it's clear.
So it's less about hey, AD look how how great of a Sprint coach

(01:23:28):
or did whatever, because let's be real, the AD doesn't care or
care. I need to say it that way.
You maybe already have the job. I'm sorry, have the interview
because they think, well, you must be somewhat competent of a
coach. Why would I even bring you in?
So that's almost like table stakes to use my old poker
career term there. Now you're showing is the idea

(01:23:50):
for that packet to take, you know, you turned in a resume and
you know, I'm not a big fan of resumes is to take that and blow
it up and say, oh, I've been on this type of committee.
Mr. and Misses AD, meaning I could maybe help you out here.
One of my roles and responsibility was donor
outreach. That may be important to you.
Mr. And Misses AD You know, is that what this packet is really

(01:24:10):
about? Totally.
And, and you're really kind of going into, you know, how I grew
the rosters at Indiana Tech, at Bay Cone CCS and how we're how
we're going to grow the roster at Benedictine.
And in return, that's going to make us more competitive at the
conference and national level. You know, I, I think that's, you
know, you know, with any athletic director, if they know

(01:24:34):
that you're going to come in andyou're going to be a good
Stewart to the program, great with alumni being a great role
model with the student athletes and on top of that, make them
competitive like they've never been competitive before.
It's it's a win, win for everybody involved.
And and you talked about, you know, you're a big dork and I
love that. By the way, remember when we

(01:24:55):
were kids when someone would call you a dork or a nerd like
that cut you to the bottom. Now today I'm like you call me a
nerd over track or code like I I.
It's a compliment. Yeah, Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. So would you say because,
because someone's listening right now going OK, cool, I'm
going to interview for a head coaching job one day in my life
could be in the next year or five years.
So I'm going to create that packet now.

(01:25:15):
Would you say that packet, let me ask you a different way.
What percentage of that packet is unique to that school?
Some things are probably going to care, like if you're
interviewing for Benedictine versus Texas A&M versus Indiana
Wesleyan, some things are going to be the same.
But how much of A percentage is unique because you did your

(01:25:35):
research on that school? How much of is unique to
Benedictine? A lot of that because I'm not
only using this packet to get a job.
This is this is going to be my playbook the first three months
that I'm on campus, you know, soI am putting in ideas of, hey,
these are the I look at the roster right now.

(01:25:57):
This is the percentage of kids that are are coming from this
high school or this junior college and things like that.
Here's my idea. These are the first phone calls
that I make. So it's, it's very unique to the
to Benedictine at the at the time.
Hey, this is what we're going todo to make sure that, you know,
hey, this year we're we're probably going to be, you know,

(01:26:17):
5th place at conference. But this is, these are the
athletes that we need to kind offocus on, you know, I, I think.
I like that. Sorry to keep interruption here.
You're good. You're providing so much value
in my mind is just spinning like, oh, how do we, you know,
I'm always thinking it's kind ofthe, the podcast is morphed a
little bit. It used to be 100% about
uplifting honour in your journey.

(01:26:38):
And, and I, I still hold that asmy number one goal here with the
podcast. But now because of the amount of
listeners that we have, it's like, oh, how can I leverage
this individual's experiences tohelp the thousands that are
listening right? So, so you got my mind just
spinning like, oh man, I've got to help Susie and Tanya and you

(01:26:59):
know, so I don't think I've everheard it necessarily.
I like how you said, not only isit the playbook, like I'm trying
to show Mr. Mrs. AD, you know, I'm the right fit for you as the
head coach, but you said something I hadn't heard before.
This is also my playbook for thefirst three months, two
quarters, 2 semesters, whatever.That's that sounds interesting

(01:27:21):
to me. Like talk to me more about that.
Well, you know, in that presentation, I'm, I'm promising
a lot. You know, this is what we're
going to do. So my my biggest fear, and I've
never had this issue, but you know, three years down the road
that it gets thrown back in my face.
Hey, you know you were going to.Yeah, yeah.
Wait a minute. Hey, Kevin here.

(01:27:42):
Here's your plan. Now in the 50%, you know,
additional, you know, dollars that you're going to raise, you
know, and you're going to take the roster from 50 to 75.
What the heck, Patterson? You know, So, you know, if, if,
if that's the the only, the onlything that you're using that for

(01:28:04):
is to get a job. You're going to put yourself in
a difficult position if you don't win conference
championships or have all Americans that are going to show
that success. You know, so it's, it's just
like, you know, being a, you know, a, you know, a sales Rep,
you know, you're going to have those metrics that you have to

(01:28:24):
keep to, you know, either you know, get your, you know, ask
for that raise or, you know, in,in worst case scenario, make
sure that you're showing that value that, that you're creating
for that company. That's what I've been doing
wrong in my, my 18 years here. I got to start doing that.
That's I got to start doing that.
What else did you do to prepare?So I hear this packet and you

(01:28:45):
know, we can probably do a wholepodcast just on packet
preparation as far as what you're doing, what you're how
you research, what to put it, because it's going to be
different for Benedictine than it was, was probably for Central
Missouri, etcetera, etcetera. What else did you do to prepare?
Did you call anybody? Did you, well, you didn't have
chat GPTS. Like did you ask ChatGPT?
What questions is an AD going toask their, you know, potential
head tracker? What else did you do to prepare

(01:29:07):
for this interview? You know, so I, I did as much,
you know, information as possible.
You know, I, I really digged into, you know, the, the
athletic directors and the, you know, associate athletic
directors, their backgrounds to see if there is any, you know,
you know, background in terms ofthose things because it goes
both ways. You know, I want to make sure
that, you know, on, on, on paper, this looks incredible.

(01:29:29):
You know, at, at this point in my coaching career, I never had
a track. I was a track coach, but I never
had my own track and Benedictinehad one.
So, you know, it was that this big fancy, you know, shiny thing
that that was, that looked awesome.
But I wanted to make sure that from, you know, it was going to
be a good social fit, it was going to going to be a good

(01:29:50):
environment for me to continue to grow.
That's an important part to Kevin.
I talk about this a lot when we hire and interview people here
that I'm involved with. When you're interviewing, it's
easy to get into the trap of like, oh, I'm going to show up
however they want. You know, whatever their picture

(01:30:10):
of a track coach in this mind is, I'm going to be that.
I'm going to talk that talk and put who you actually are to the
sideline. And it's such a mistake.
I, I, I, you know, I beg our, you know, our, our candidates
when we're here, I'm like, Hey, you got to you got to be, be
real, because if this is not theright job for you, we're going
to try to be not try. We are going to be as real as
possible. I don't want you answer the way

(01:30:32):
I you think I want answer answerright, Because if I don't see
that you're a good fit and you realize that you're not a good
fit, thank goodness you don't get hired for your own sake.
So you may think, oh, Benedictine is the greatest
place in the world. I'm going to answer exactly how
they want. And then you get there.
You're like, Oh my gosh, my ad is terrible.
Like what am I doing here? Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.
I also they didn't tell me that I was going to have or no, I

(01:30:53):
thought it'd be easier being also the the ticket office
director. That's not uncommon in school
track and field here in in reality, that's 85% of my job.
I'm not even, you know, you got to make sure that it's OK that
you don't get a job because you showed up as your real self and
asked questions and got the realanswer and decided that was not
the right job for me or that they decided you're not the

(01:31:15):
right. You know, they using that ticket
office thing and you know, they say, hey, you know, part of the
job is ticket office, but don't worry, it's only 30% of the
time. Oh, cool.
Let me know more about that. And you got to start sussing out
like, is it really 30%? What is that?
How does that affect So does that mean you're going to give
me that slack on the track, on the trackside?
Meaning if we only get 6 then not second?
Well, OK, we understand. But you're also yeah, you're

(01:31:36):
doing tickets or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You got to you got to realize that that's that's super smart
on doing your research on who amI going to be working for and
with I. Love that exactly because with
any you know, it goes both sides.
You know, you are getting that that you know, hiring committees
huge best thing because they're trying to woo you as well.
That's right, you know, and. I get that.
That's exactly right. Exactly, you know, so you have

(01:31:57):
to do that in, you know, that that thing, you know,
Benedictine was a little bit different.
Matt Jones is still the the director of admissions over
there. He wasn't trying to woo anybody.
You know, he was, he was, he wasdirect to the point, you know,
trying to, you know, dig into melike he, he, he, you know, like
this is who he is. And, and I know exactly that.
Did did he or anybody in the hiring process committee, did

(01:32:20):
they ask you a question that you're like, did not expect
that. Not a bad question, but like my
gosh, I did all this research, did not think they would ask me
about X anything like that, thatkind of like you had to on the
fly answer correctly, but it waslike I did not expect that.
Yeah, I mean, you know, talking about Matt Jones, like, you
know, you know, coming from the NAI, it's an NCAA at that point.

(01:32:41):
He was the, the compliance director, you know, and he was
like, you know, you're coming from the NAI.
It's wild, Wild West. How can I trust you now?
I'm like, what? We, we, we, you know, you're,
you're telling me that you can'ttrust me already.
Holy cow. You know, I just met you 5
minutes ago, you know, so it, that was just, you know, his
personality. He's just going to, he's going
to throw it out like that. And, and, you know, you know, I

(01:33:04):
think I, you know, obviously, obviously I answered it okay
enough to kind of get the position.
But you know, that was like the first time in that kind of
interviewing process wherever I was.
I'm like, I don't, you know, because I'm again, I'm a dork.
I'm doing this research. I have a lot of of insight and
everywhere I'm going, but it's like, whoa, like, you know,
you're telling me that I'm goingto cheat right away and and do

(01:33:26):
all these things because, you know, I'm only coming from the
NEI, you know, so I kind of had to push back.
I'm like, you know, hey, it's not the wild, Wild West.
We have rules too there. Yeah, rule book is a little
smaller, though. I, I, I know JUCO, JUCO.
I'm always like, yeah, there wasn't, I'm not, There was a
couple of pages. We didn't really have a book.
And then, you know, you get to NCAA.
So what, what were those? You know, let's talk about your
time there at Benedictine. Very successful.

(01:33:48):
You grew the program. How you know?
I say you're an AIA kid. You know from athlete to the
coaching positions. What, what, what did you what
notice? What differences did you even
notice? Not much to be honest with you.
You know, it's, it's, it's trackto track, I think.
I think in track it's so cool. Is is we all compete at the same

(01:34:08):
meets and you know, a 10/5 in the 100 meter dash is the same
in the AI is, is is in division ones for our sport.
It's not that big of a difference.
There was some, you know, different things I had to do for
visits and things like that, youknow, but again, you know,
that's, you know, if you can't figure that out, you know, you
probably shouldn't be in the in the business either way.

(01:34:30):
So, you know, so, you know, we, we, you know, I didn't see much
difference in that. And I really don't, you know,
for me as, as you know, a head coach hiring assistant coaches,
it never, you know, I never had fear of of, you know, you know,
interviewing people from the junior college level to the high
level because I think you know, in, in general, track is track.

(01:34:52):
Speaking of that, there's another part of the profession
of coaching track and field thatwe don't.
I don't know that I've ever heard anybody say they were
trained. How did you you now you've got a
staff. I'm not sure that you really had
one at CCSJ. How did you evolve?
I hope it's been evolved. Learning how to hire people,

(01:35:15):
what questions to ask, how to evaluate your staff on a year by
year basis. It it the, the most common thing
I hear is, oh, you're the head coach now.
Cool. You get to hire staff.
Good luck. Let us know who you hire.
Let us know who we're supposed to do background checks on and
that's all they you know that it's up to you to what questions
do I ask? What am I looking for fit
personality wise, you know, the talent wise seems like, you

(01:35:38):
know, we can identify that, but all the other things in
evaluations, how did you figure that out and then evolve with
that? Yeah, yeah, I was.
I was definitely thrown in that position.
So, you know, they're like we'regoing to name you director of
cross country and track and we added this position, go hire
your assistant coach. It's like, Oh, I was, you know,
for three years I, I didn't, I couldn't pay a, a, a, a coach

(01:35:59):
anything, you know, So I was, you know, if I wanted to, if I
wanted a pole vaulter, I had to learn how to coach pole vaulter.
You know, it's, you know, I had the Field of Dreams mentality.
You know, if I wanted to go get some throwers, I would just buy
a couple shot puts, you know, if, if you build it, they will
come, you know, different thingslike that.
But but that position really became, you know, probably the

(01:36:23):
my most important hire probably in my entire career.
You know what, we hired Justin Kinseth, who was a graduate
assistant at Cardinal Stritch, another NAIA school, and me and
him really blew that program up.You know, we had very similar

(01:36:45):
philosophies. We are aggressive, you know, he
reminded, You know, I, I was recently married, so I, I didn't
have the, the full, you know, you know, there was, there was,
you know, events that I had to attend, you know, where I would
have to miss a meet here and there.
But you know, he was just aggressive in terms of that
incredible coach, incredible developer of student athletes.

(01:37:09):
And it showed did. You know him?
Do you know him before you interviewed him?
Yeah. So I I knew a little bit about
him. So, you know, we were in the
same conference with CCSJ. So how did you as as a
interviewer with the interviewee, how did you suss
out that he was going to be the attributes that you needed?

(01:37:29):
How did you like questions or body language?
How do you actually without knowyou know, that's why I asked if
you knew like Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've watched him for the last three years at meets doesn't
sound like that necessarily. So how do you suss out these
other character traits? Because you can, yeah.
You know, so I mean just. Asking is not that great, right?
Hey, are you going to be relentless?
Yes, I will. Cool.

(01:37:50):
It checks that box. You know, that's ludicrous.
How do you actually suss this out?
Yeah, so, so he was at Cardinal Stretch when I was at CCSJ.
You know, we were, we were in the same conference, you know,
he was a graduate assistant, butI think he had gone through two
or three head coaches in like 18months.
It was crazy. So, you know, when you know,

(01:38:11):
they would leave, he would be interim and things like that.
But through all that turmoil, you know, they progressed as a
program, you know, and having those conversations, seeing how
he interacted with his student athletes and just having, you
know, genuine conversations likeI, I knew it was going to be a,
you know, a good opportunity, you know, for for us to kind of

(01:38:33):
build that, that that program. You know, I figured, you know,
with the resources that we wouldhave at Benedictine compared to
the lack of resources that we had at CCSGA and Carpets Rich,
that we could do something really, really special.
Yeah. Don't, don't you?
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
How much as you're doing hiring and evaluations, even up till

(01:38:56):
now, how much of like someone who has success at a under
resource program versus the opposite of that plays into
like, oh man, if this guy or galcan get it done at Cardinal
stretch, like you said there, you know, we're, we're, we're 10
times more funded. They should have a field day.
They should be more successful. How much does that play into it?

(01:39:16):
Because I, I remember like, you know, my whole goal was to get
to the SEC. So I get to Mississippi State
and you know, I was at Ball State before that junior
college, things like that. You know, we get to Mississippi
State. We had a, it felt like a billion
dollar budget, you know, our kids didn't want for, for shoes.
I mean, we went wherever we wanted for meats.
And then when I got out of coaching, when I thought I
wanted to get back into coaching, I remember I, I one of

(01:39:37):
the first times of like real self-awareness for me.
I was like, I can't go back to small school.
I, I got to go back to power 5. I just can't, I can't do it.
And honestly, through the grace of God, nobody wanted me that it
worked out perfectly because I'mhere where I am and things like
that. But but, but I I don't know, I
think I would have struggled going back to a Ball State after

(01:39:59):
I've been in the Mississippi State.
I would have just mentally me, Iwould have struggled like, what
do you mean I can't get this? What do you mean I can't get
these extra shoe? I need this for the athletes.
You know what you mean? I can't just get in a plane and
go see this recruit in California.
What do you mean? You know, it's how you want to
be successful. This is what I believe.
So what I've been shown you needto be successful.
How much does that play into when you're thinking about
interviewing or not interviewingsomeone kind of a small school

(01:40:22):
under resource versus, you know,resource?
No, it's, it's everything. And even today, you know, as, as
I look for coaches and things like that, I know, I, I, you
know, because, you know, yeah, there's going to be those, those
power fives and, and then there's everybody else, you
know. So if, if you've been at a Power
5 where you've had a director ofOPS your entire coaching career

(01:40:43):
and, you know, they set up all the recruit days, all you do is
just e-mail them a name. And hey, you know, Johnny's
going to be here on Saturday. Well, it's that that's not how
it happens here. You know, you got to do
everything and then you got to hope that admissions isn't busy
that day so they could do the campus tour.
So you have, you know, 90 minutes where you can get a
practice in before the recruit comes back to those things.

(01:41:05):
So it's it's important in terms of those things that that you
know, that there's that expectations where you know,
hey, this is what we have. And you know, for for me and
Justin, like we were so excited about the weight room we had and
the track we had. And I think the recruits saw
that. You know, where if you know, if
you take that step back, you know, if you, you know, you

(01:41:27):
know, I'm an Indiana guy myself some.
So no offense to Ball State, butif you look at Ball State's
football stadium on a Saturday, in Mississippi State's football
stadium on a Saturday, 2 official visits, back-to-back
weekends, who you going to pick?You know, if that's important to
you, you would take the same state.

(01:41:48):
That's important to you, But youknow, if but, and, and the same
thing goes going with with coaches, you know, you could
really pump up like, hey, Mississippi State football,
we're playing Alabama, We're going to put you, you know, on
the field and it's going to be awesome.
But then you go from MississippiState to Ball State where, hey,
we're playing, you know, WesternMichigan and the stadium's going

(01:42:11):
to be halfway filled. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. But you know, how are you going
to you know, what are you how what your expectations and how
are you selling that to our? How do you overcome that?
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the
biggest. How many years it been
addicting? I was there for five years.
That's what I thought. I thought you were there for a
while. I'm a speed up just a little bit

(01:42:33):
just for the interest of time, because you, you had a very
successful time at Benedictine, that's for sure.
You know, I, I get very, I pigeonhole people very much like
for me, I was like, that's whereI kind of got to know you at.
And it was like, oh, Kevin, he'sa Benedictine guy.
And then I see that Kevin's leaving Benedictine and he's
going to another. I mean, you talk about his, the

(01:42:54):
history of this program you go to.
I almost said Central Missouri State University of Central
Missouri. I'm old.
They they used to be CMSU back in the day.
Why? Well, before that, I was at, I
was, I was at Lenoir Ryan for the five years as well.
That's right, yeah. So how can I forget?

(01:43:16):
You know, I told you I don't do any research.
Maybe I should, because another wow you a lot of success at
Lenoir, Ryan as well. Yeah, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, Lenoir Ryan was was
very similar as as well. You know, it was kind of you
know, you know, it was kind of what Benedict and what I thought
it could be Lenovo Ryan was the same way.

(01:43:36):
So I was only the second full time track and field coach in
Lenovo Ryan history. You know, back had been off and
on. We always had to create football
program and and other programs as well.
You know, Kim Pate, you know, our ID over there really wanted
to kind of take that to the nextlevel.
You know, so again, you know, I was kind of able to, you know,
be tasked with those things, youknow, as at LR for five years,

(01:43:59):
you know, we hadn't had much, you know, success at the
national level. You know, I, I think up up a few
years ago, we hadn't had a a a awomen representative at
nationals at LR since like 2012.And you know, we've had multiple

(01:44:23):
national champions. Obviously Alexis Brown is
incredible. We won the the four by one last
year as well, But I think, you know, the women's had, you know,
four straight, you know, national championships were that
we're top ten in the country, you know, so that's something
that, you know, was was absolutely incredible, you know,
in terms of those things. So Benedictine was D3, right?

(01:44:46):
Yeah. And Lenore Ryan's D. 2.
And you started off with a lot of NAIA influence.
It's interesting how much, and you know, I asked the question
about any IE to D to NCAA in general.
How about, you know, the changesyou've seen what you have to do
in any IE to be successful, Division 3 to be successful and

(01:45:07):
now Division 2. Is there a lot of change?
I mean that we know how much is the ability of scholarships
because that's the, I don't say that's the real big change.
There's obviously other changes,but that is a big change.
How much does that change how you have to be as a coach?
I mean, it's huge, you know, it,it opens up those opportunities,
you know, you know, when I was at Benedictine, you know, my, my

(01:45:28):
sales pitch was, you know, to the, the state champion in
Illinois, you know, hey, I hope you liked it.
And, you know, you got to pay $20,000 a year and if you win a
national championship with me, you still have to pay $20,000 a
year because we're Division Three, you know, and it's, you
know, and it's, it's, it's a challenge, you know, and
obviously that, that school downthe hill, North Central has done

(01:45:50):
an incredible job with that. And we had a good job, You know,
we, we, we retained a lot of our, our top athletes at
Benedict. And, but you know what, being
that division two, it's, it changes those opportunities, you
know, because you know, sometimes that you know, that,
that that state champion is, is,you know, I, I've had a lot of
buddies that had a lot of success, you know, in, in

(01:46:10):
Indiana that were state champions and went to a big
time, you know, Power 5 program and they got their books paid
for, you know, where you know, you're able to, to really kind
of be a little bit more competitive in terms of the
recruitment process because there is on top of those things.
So if it's an athlete that you really, really want, we have the
opportunity to get full rides, you know, at Lenore Rhine and,

(01:46:32):
and that allowed us to get some,some really, really good student
athletes. You know, I always think about
scholarshipping. It's kind of like it's kind of
the exact same thing I do selling track equipment, just in
the reverse. You're trying to get kids at the
least possible 'cause you know, if you get a great kid at 50%
versus 100, well, that's another50% you get to go give out
another great kid or whatnot. How did you, how did you learn

(01:46:55):
that process? Because you hadn't had that
process really before or somewhat you did you know with
any IE, but you know, you had some pretty small scholarship in
there. And did your business background
at all help in that management of your, your, your funds?
You have a certain amount of funds that you can give out and
you got to do a complete team. Yeah, definitely.
You know, and I think that's that's, you know, in the track

(01:47:16):
and field world, you know how you're winning conference
championships and how you're winning national championships
is based on a number. And that's something that I
always do and I updated, I always have that that three-year
average, what it takes to win a national championship, top four,
top ten, top 15, top 25. And that's what we always strive

(01:47:37):
for, you know, so you're using those scholarship dollars and in
like, it's kind of the moneyballphilosophy.
You know, you're you're trying to yeah, I don't want to say the
word by because, you know, obviously there's so much more
to our athlete and journey, but you're trying to invest to score
X amount of points, you know, atthe conference championship, at

(01:48:01):
the national championship to achieve these things, which in
return, you know, is going to make that recruitment process
that much easier. You know, everyone wants to be
on the top four by one in the country.
No one wants to be on the 93rd best four by one in the country.
So if, if you're getting recruited by the number 93 team

(01:48:23):
in the country, you know, you'reprobably going to want that that
scholarship to be a little bit higher.
But if you have that opportunityto win a, a national
championship at North Central orthis school or that, you know,
you, you put a little bit more value in that program, in that
developments and that that college experience.
Yeah, Yeah. You know, you made a really good

(01:48:45):
correction there that I need to get better at the investment
into the student athletes. Not buying that.
You're right. That's too much of my business
side. Yeah. 24. 7 that that's more
appropriate way to say that and I I should follow suit with
that. You you were you know I told you
I pigeonhole you, right. So you are Benedictine totally
forgot about Lenore Ryan. Even though I was at nationals
talk. I now have Remember this

(01:49:06):
conversation we had here? The 100 meters during practice?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so dumb.
Sorry. Very successful at Lenore Ryan.
Yeah. Why a why go, you know, back to
the Midwest, but not where you're from?
You're still a pretty good little hall there.
But on top of that, I think of, you know, Central Missouri with

(01:49:26):
the coaches that they had there with Kip and Kirk and I, and I
think you said Kirk's still there, but you know, Kip is
legendary. Let's just be, I can't imagine
like I have 0 jealousy over Bucky taking over for John
McDonnell, Dennis when he took over for Pat Whoever's going to

(01:49:49):
take over for Pat one day and mouse And you know, I just like,
dude, how why would you want to put yourself through that?
You will never live up to that. You know, maybe one day when
people forget about, you know, 30 years on, they'll forget
about mouse. But for the next three to 10
years, they always remember whatmouse has done, right.
How do you, why do you make the decision to leave somewhere
you're very successful at go to another again, You know, Central

(01:50:13):
Missouri, you got some history there, bro.
I mean, that's an amazing program and you get to take over
for this legend. You you can't fill his shoes.
You got to wear different shoes.Why?
It just seems like like, I don'tknow, are you just like you just
like pain and suffering? I don't know, like you just like
to be make things hard for you. I don't know why.

(01:50:33):
Why do this? Central Missouri is, is a school
that I always kept my eye on. You know, I, I think as as much
success as we had at Lenore Rhine, we weren't fully funded.
It would have been a difficult, it would have to be perfect for
us to win a national championship at Lenore.

(01:50:55):
Ryan, as as much as you know, weare in this sport to be
incredible role models and uplift, you know, our student
athletes, if we win a national championship, that's the cherry
on top. You know, and, and, and, and,
and I am a competitive person. I want to make sure that we're

(01:51:16):
doing everything in the right way, but I want to win a
national championship. So Kip is a legend, 100%, but he
has given me, you know, and everybody here at Central
Missouri, a road map of what it takes to win a national
championship. We have 54 individual or relay

(01:51:36):
national champions in division two.
It's absolutely incredible. I could see where some people
might be hesitant to, you know, step into this position because
of, you know, Kip retiring. For me, that just made me more
excited. I've my entire career as a

(01:51:58):
coach, I've been hired to resurrect programs or take them
to the next level. The bones are here.
It's it's, it's different here. We have those traditions.
I walk into my office every single day and I see just a ton
of NCAA trophies and, and it gets me hungry and, and you're

(01:52:20):
right, I'm not going to replace Kip.
He's he's a legend, he's an Olympian.
And we've had a long discussion how I was a very average student
athlete. Me, me and you were limp.
We limped through. This, you know, But you know,
for me, I've been very, very intentional talking to alumni,

(01:52:41):
talking to students, you know, talking to the students that we
have and, and any alumni that'lllisten to me, I've, I've always
asked the question, give me three things that have to stay
the same here at Central Missouri and give me three
things that you think that we, we need to change to make this
program even better. You know, so we're, we're

(01:53:02):
really, really intentional to make sure that, you know, those
traditions and, and obviously wehave Kirk here as, who's a
legend himself, who's done an incredible job with our distance
program, you know, so, you know,I, you know, if, if I always
ever have a, you know, a question and things like that,
he's always available through those things.
But, you know, I, I think we're still the same program that won

(01:53:26):
the, the, you know, back-to-backnational indoor and outdoor
championships in 2015. I, I think that we still have
those, you know, opportunities and, and I'm excited about the
future. How do you, you know, you have
your own culture and style? And sometimes culture is a
little overused. You know, there's still like

(01:53:47):
there's basics in all in, in most of our programs, there's
basics of culture, meaning, hey,we're going to go to class and
we're going to do good in grades.
Hey, we're going to compete at ahigh level.
We're going to come to practice,you know, we're going to uplift
each other, things like that. But there are nuances like, Hey,
I you know, I expect this out ofour kids and hey, we're going to
be more distance focused. I don't know, not necessarily,

(01:54:09):
but you know, we're going to be more focused necessarily on this
event group over here. But you also have a, a very
successful program, a again, a legend in in Kip.
You have a part of that puzzle that you know that that's what
to me culture is. It's it's a puzzle with a bunch
of whole different pieces in there.

(01:54:29):
One of those pieces, Kirk is still there.
How do you sometimes, so when you went to CCSJ, if you were to
think of like a, as a boat, you had to like 180 that boat, you
know, and, and luckily it was a small boat so you could do it
quickly. I, I feel like you correct me
where I'm wrong that a program like UCM, it's a bigger boat

(01:54:54):
because it has a lot more tradition history.
And you know what? I'm not, I'm not looking to do
180. I'm looking to move 1° or two.
How do you do that knowing that you could say, blow it up and do
everything differently, you know, your own ways or other
ways that you've done it? How do you manage that?
That's really the question. How do you manage subtle moves
that are still forward that you know, knowing that you could

(01:55:17):
make a, you know, yank on that steering wheel and kill through
this thing pretty bad? You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, no, it's, it's for for me,it's been pretty simple.
Kip was a developer like I was, so our philosophies and the type
of kids that we have on our roster right now are the type of

(01:55:38):
athletes that I would have recruited at Lenore, Ron or
Benedictine or CCSGI. So that's been super, super
easy. I make sure that I'm very
intentional of explaining why wedo things the way that we're
doing them now, because that philosophy has changed
significantly in terms of, you know, just in terms of volume

(01:55:58):
and intensity of our training program.
But I make sure that, that everysingle, because I, you know, we,
we brought in some about 6 athletes here in January that
I'm really, really excited about.
But, you know, of a roster of 120, you know, you know, 114 of
those athletes I never recruited, you know, so they

(01:56:19):
came here for a number of reasons.
But I'm sure one of those reasons is because, you know,
having Kip as their head coach. So meeting with everybody
explaining like, Hey, this is what we're trying to accomplish.
And I think this is where we'll find success at.
But also understand that, hey, you know, Kip was this this
legendary coach that that, you know, I mean, some of the

(01:56:42):
athletes that we have that won national championships had had
no business winning national championships, you know, and I
think if you look at at, you know, my national champions, I
think it's very, very similar. These are kids that that just
weren't getting recruited out ofhigh school.
Someone gave them a chance. They believed that they could be

(01:57:04):
national champs and the hard work fall of that and and on
that special day, we were able to achieve that that ultimate
goal. I think that's so similar here
at at Central Missouri. So I think, I think our alumni
more than anything are they lovethe sport and, you know, they've
done their research on me, you know, where I, I think that they

(01:57:28):
see that's, you know, hey, you know, that I've, I've been able
to take these programs to the next level.
You know, everyone that I've hadthe chance to meet, you know,
I've, I've, you know, told them about my family and, and my
philosophies and things like that.
And then I've also told them it's, it's going to be important
that we are proud of our, our history.

(01:57:50):
You know, we have some, some things in the works to, you
know, to honor, you know, Kip and, and Kirk and their careers
and just the incredible amount of, of student athletes that
they've touched the past 3637 years here in Warrensburg.
You know, and, you know, I'm, I'm 40, so I don't know if I
have 36 years of coaching in me,but you know, I want to make

(01:58:14):
sure that, you know, the legacies that they left that
that are celebrated. And, you know, I'm a big legacy
guy myself. I want to make sure that, you
know, I'm, I'm creating the right legacy of, of where we're
continuing to, to be the, the, the mules and Jennies that we
were the past 40 years. And, and, and making sure that
we keep that ship moving forwardand do those things, you know,

(01:58:37):
and, and we, we coach different events.
So we're, you know, meet and Kipcoach different events.
So there's going to be some, some pivots to those things.
But, you know, I'm going to showour alumni and, and everybody
here, you know, in, in Warrensburg and in the Kansas
City area, that's, you know, everything that we do and, and
the, the type of student athletes that we bring in, we're
going to do at a very high level.

(01:58:58):
You know, it's, it's striking tome throughout your career, kind
of the leveling up if, if you will, you know, one of the, one
of the first levels up where youknow, you graduating high school
and going to college, your own level up of your family
competing in college, getting a college degree.
And then throughout your coaching, you know, a volunteer

(01:59:21):
sent NAI and then a paid NAI andthen going D3 and D2.
You know, going to Benedict and you know, your first, first time
I've had a track and you know, now you're Central Missouri and
you've got an indoor facility and an outdoor facility.
You know, you just keep levelingup there, my friend.
And I believe that, you know, that's the type of person that

(01:59:41):
is going to level up where they are now.
And so what's cool to see is, you know, you're not starting at
Ground Zero. You're starting at, you know, on
the maybe the third floor to level up to floor four and five
and six. It's pretty, pretty exciting to
be able to be on the sidelines and watch that move along.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's been great.
You know, I wouldn't be here with without the the support of

(02:00:02):
so many people, you know? This doesn't happen.
You know what what we do, I mean, you know, without that,
that supportive, you know, spouse care has been incredible.
You know, sometimes it's a hard sell.
You know, we just got back from Orlando for a week trying to
tell your spouse that, yeah, I'mgoing to this, this great place.

(02:00:24):
It's going to be 75°. You know, they got this, this
this lazy river. But I'm going there to be, you
know, you know, to, to do business.
You know, sometimes that's, that's hard sell, you know, but,
you know, I think with anybody, you know, in this profession,
your success is, is, is tied to your wife or your, your spouse

(02:00:46):
or your significant mother so much because, you know, without
the sacrifices that they make, it's, it's impossible to have
that, that thing, you know, So it's, it's important for her,
you know, you know, with the, you know, walking through all of
this, you know, she, she gave methis awesome Christmas presents.

(02:01:07):
It's, you know, it's as, you know, home is where coaching
takes us. And it's, it's so true in this
profession. But you know, I've just been so
lucky with the, the people around me.
And, you know, I, I try to try my best to, you know, make this
about the athletes and it's, it's never about me.

(02:01:29):
And, and I think that's where the success comes from.
Well, you're obviously doing a great job in the many, many
roles that you have, you know, husband, son, father.
You know, I just when we're recording this, I just retweeted
a tweet with and all I put was 3broken hearts because it was, I
think it was a football coach. I think it might have been a

(02:01:49):
baseball coach. I think it was a football coach.
And they were saying that, you know, in the coaching
profession, it is impossible to be a good father and husband.
And that breaks my heart to hearany coach say that.
And I think having examples likeyou is important for young
people who, who maybe are, you know, they're in the profession
at 2425 years old going, yeah, you know, probably won't ever be

(02:02:10):
married or won't ever, you know,be a, a parent.
And it's like, no, bro, you can.And not only can you, you can do
it at a high level. You know, again, there's no
bigger fan of track coaches thanmyself.
And I still would say your role as a track coach is maybe #4 or
#5 on the priority list. You know, you know, again, son
and husband and father and you know, where your faith sits and

(02:02:33):
things like that are all more important to coaching.
And I think coaching is extremely important.
So, but we have to have exampleslike that, that you can be, you
can have your priorities in the right order.
And I'm really proud of you for that.
It makes, it makes a huge impactand makes their job easier to
support you as well. By the way, you know, when you

(02:02:55):
have that reciprocity, that's like, oh, you know, I don't mind
letting him go to Orlando for a week because you know, he's
going to come back and be reallyintentional, you know, as a as a
mate and as a as a father. So that's a product man.
Kevin, man, you know, the most important and most valuable
thing that you can give me is time.
You're busy. You know, I can't, I can't
imagine what it takes in the first year of a program.

(02:03:18):
You're you're being constantly tugged on.
Hey, we need you over here. We need you to do this.
You're you've got a million ideas of your own.
If I want to get this done and do this and meet with these
people. So, you know, for you to take
some time here at the beginning of indoor season, for crying out
loud, to sit down with us and share your journey, man, it
means the absolute world to me and all of us here at Gill.
I'm just really, really gratefuland just love you, man.

(02:03:39):
Just, you know, blessings this year.
I can't wait to see you. I'll see you in Indy and I'll
see you in Pueblo and, and I'll remember that you're in Central
Missouri and no longer at Benedictine.
Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully it'll, it'll stick up here.
But Kevin, for real man, just very grateful for you and thank
you so much for for being with us today.
No, this is an honor, Mike. I really appreciate it.
Absolutely, thank you guys for being here.

(02:04:00):
You know, season 6, I'm not surewe've had a string to start off
a season of coaches like we've had so far.
And I think it's testament to, you know, a little bit of what
the podcast is as far as I don'tsee importance, but you know
what it means now in the track and field, specifically coaching
world. But I am grateful for all the
men and women that join us here.I hope you have received value

(02:04:20):
that is, it's still #2 it's it'sstill #1 to uplift and honor
these these guys and gals. But quickly on its heels is to
add as much value to the profession for those who choose
to be track coaches no matter what level out there.
And so I hope I know this did. If you listen to it, I know this
added value. Join us next week and we'll
we'll do it all over again. Thanks guys.

(02:04:41):
If it goes to appreciate the coach the ones that point people
most every season needs a voice of reason to speak in the growth
you got to prep before you carrythe load.
Ice coffee to the sole for thoseof us who stay on the go proper
handoff to stay in the zone which you packing for the road.
There's more than one way to go.Take notes, that's paying you're
told it ain't practice if your purpose ain't clear.

(02:05:01):
It can't happen until you listenwith both ears.
You can't mentor without a mentor.
Years of experience you can reinvent those years every
plan's got to stand and deliver up to.
And the price sacrifice can you give up you.
It's a choice and a fight, not awin or lose.
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
It's not about how to it's all about why you don't know till

(02:05:21):
you know who you are inside 6,000,000 waste of time, choose
none so we y'all cross the finish line.
The work ain't done so we learn from the experts, but y'all got
to put in the leg work. Gil Athletics Network.
It's all about connections put together for the profession to
where every track coach could beblessing.

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#300: Kevin Patterson-University of Central Missouri

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