June 12, 2025 • 27 mins
We’re almost at the end of the Hockey Canada trial.
Covering this case hasn’t been easy, but here at The GIST of It, we’re in the business of telling hard stories that shed light on important issues, while calling out bullsh!t along the way. With a verdict expected on July 24th, co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Steph Rotz share thoughts on the defense’s disturbing closing arguments. Take care with this one, GISTer.
This episode was brought to you by Amazon Business, the ultimate partner for smart business buying. Amazon Business offers a one-stop shop for all of your business needs, helping companies of all shapes and sizes simplify their purchasing process. Learn more by checking out business.amazon.com today.
Covering this case hasn’t been easy, but here at The GIST of It, we’re in the business of telling hard stories that shed light on important issues, while calling out bullsh!t along the way. With a verdict expected on July 24th, co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Steph Rotz share thoughts on the defense’s disturbing closing arguments. Take care with this one, GISTer.
This episode was brought to you by Amazon Business, the ultimate partner for smart business buying. Amazon Business offers a one-stop shop for all of your business needs, helping companies of all shapes and sizes simplify their purchasing process. Learn more by checking out business.amazon.com today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, diisteners, Welcome or welcome back to another episode of
The Gist of It. Today's Thursday, June twelfth. We're your
co hosts. I'm Ellen Hyslop and I'm Steph Rotts. And
though the weather is looking great outside, it's getting warmer,
it's getting sunnier. In the sports world, there are still
some heavy topics that we need to be covering and
going through today, So we are going to be covering
(00:31):
the latest update from the ongoing Hockey Canada sexual assault
trial today. The trials in its final days, with the
defense giving their closing arguments and frankly making some disturbing
insinuations about alleged sexual assault survivor em which is how
they go by in this case and in this trial.
All to say, given the nature of this trial, this
(00:51):
episode is heavy. If you need to take care of
yourself and skip this one, we very much understand. We
also do want to mention as much as this is
something that's happening in Canada, this situation is pervasive across
sports period, So no matter where you live, no matter
what sports you follow, we do think that this is
a topic that's important for us to think about in
(01:14):
a broader sports ecosystem too.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, and hockey period. If you play hockey, you definitely
understand I think the culture that allows this type of
thing to happen or allegedly happen. Yeah, And it is
quite a unique case. And there are different ways too
that these cases present themselves in the US versus Canada.
(01:38):
So it is good to kind of understand those differences as.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
We talk to and whether you listen to the end
of the episode or not, we have linkeds some helpful
sexual assault advocacy groups in the show notes that provide
resources for survivors, including hotlines for those who have experienced
sexual assault. All of these groups are in Canada and
in the US, all of them except donations. Because of
(02:02):
the nature of the podcast today as much as in
our last pod, we really encourage a lot of people
to send us in voicemails for our personal training session.
It didn't feel right today to have a little personal
training sessh At the end of the podcast, thanks so
much to everyone who's sent in their voicemails. We listen
to them. We're going to get to them next week.
If you want to leave us a voicemail again so
(02:24):
that you can be featured in our Personal Training Session.
At another time, you can call us at one four
three seven, five, six, four five, five seven nine, or
when you go to our show notes, you can hold
down a link in our show notes and you can
call us from there.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
One thing that we are going to do before we
get into the one Big story today is we are
going to call an audible for folks who are unfamiliar.
This is a new section of our podcast, and it's
going off of that football term that refers to a
quarterback changing the play on the field.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yes, and what we wanted to talk about today was
a few updates in the men's sports world. We have
the Stanley Cup Final going on between Edmonton and the
Florida Panthers, which is a rematch from last year. We
have the Oklahoma City Thunder squaring Offhagruns the Indiana Pacers.
On the NBA side of things, Oilers are down two
(03:13):
to one in the Stanley Cup Final to the Florida Panthers.
Game four is tonight at eight pm Eastern. Game four
is also in Florida. As for the NBA Finals, they
are actually happening while we're recording tonight Game three. But
before this recording, OKC and Indiana were tied one to one.
(03:35):
What I find it interesting in all of this stuff
is that both the Stanley Cup Final has kind of
their own narrative and the NBA Finals has their narrative.
And the biggest thing on the NBA Final side is
that there's a lot of people complaining. Have you been
seeing that online?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Wait? Sorry, I I space out NBA or NHL.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Who's complaining?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Okay, why are they complaining?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
NBA, NBA, NBA? People are planning the minute I talk
about men's sports. Steph Yans, I'm like, first we have
to talk about the men.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So sorry, Apparently I start one of my work calls
with this one person with a yawn every single time.
And no, it just might be a habit that it can't.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Break, apparently too. You know how dogs ye on when
they're feeling anxious or when they don't like something. Do
you think I just did that? I do wonder if
that's what you did, or if maybe that's what you're
doing with your colleague, if maybe you're nervous. I'm just anxious.
And I didn't realize that humans actually do that too,
because it does regulate your nervous system interesting. Yeah, So anyway,
(04:38):
if anyone wants to take a yawn right now, because
we are going to keep on talking about men's sports
for a minute. The biggest thing that people were talking about,
Steph is that, like, okay, see in Indiana and this
being the NBA Finals is really bad for the NBA
because they're not major market teams. And there's been so
many takes online saying that, and then there's been a
(04:59):
lot of really amazing female analysts and broadcasters that are like,
what do you guys mean? We have been getting annoyed
that it's been the same teams over and over and
over again, and the same big names over and over
and over again. And now finally we have people and
teams that are in the finals that we haven't seen before.
(05:21):
In Okac in Indiana. We have stories like Pascal Siakam,
we have stories like Tyrese Halbert, and we have stories
like Shake Gilgos Alexander and these are all new and
fresh and something for us to think about. And y'all
are complaining and fans are complaining what's going on? And
I feel like that's very very reminiscent or very representative
of the human condition and that we just like to complain.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It's that meme from the notebook what do you want?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
What do you want? I don't know what I want? Really,
that was a really good impressions. Thank you. Yeah, that
was really good. She can do right? Or what was
he in the notebook?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Noah? Something I know?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But what was his name? Jake? Noah? What was he jacin?
Crazy stupid love?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Was that the one with Steve Krall?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Is he Jake in that sleigh? Yeah? So good, so
good anyway, So what I have to say to that is, yeah,
I think that I was one of those people that
was like, yeah, this isn't great for the NBA. Yeah,
you love That's meusiness. I'm a business early and like
I do stand by it for sure. But that's also
where I think it's our responsibility as the media to
(06:34):
give this finals the same amount of attention as we
would a Boston LA Final or a you know what
I mean. Like to me, then that's our that's on us.
That's our fault if people aren't tuning in in the
same way.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You know what I was thinking about today and that
I was really happy that y'all posted on Instagram and
speaking of it's our responsibility to shift narratives is I
love that you guys posted the video of Angel Reese
pushing the or fixing Holly Ro's eyelash in her interview,
because I do think that it is also important to
show those softer sides when people are so quick to
(07:07):
have this angry woman narrative and create this rivalry between
her and Kaylyn Clark. So I really like to let
you guys post that. And I scrolled through the comments
and that was a common sentiment. Sorry to bring this
back to what with sports?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Sorry not sorry, but no, it was really sweet and
Angel re Yeah, it's just women are multifaceted and there's
so many different ways to look at it, and again,
we have a responsibility. I don't know who's gonna win
the series. I think OKAC should be able to walk
away with it. If Game two is any indication, I
do think the Florida Panthers, after winning that third game emphatically,
(07:40):
I think it ended up being six', One edmonton has
to come out swinging In game four if they want
a chance at. ALL i do see the series going
again To game, seven but this Time edmonton has homice,
advantage so we'll see what.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Happens hopefully another shout out To Amazon business for sponsoring this.
Episode if there's one Thing amazon specializes, in it's, convenience
and that's true of both their personal and business. Programs
when you sign your company up For Amazon, business you
(08:14):
receive access to deals on countless office items in addition to,
fast reliable. Shipping make the easy choice for your small
business and Choose Amazon business for all your work related.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Purchases, okay. Y'all as we mentioned at the beginning of this,
episode today's One Big, story we'll focus on the Ongoing
Hockey canada sexual assault. Trial it's a difficult, topic so
please take care while you, listen and yet, again thank
(08:44):
you to our amazing producers for doing all of this,
research putting all of this, Together especially when it's a heavy,
topic it doesn't make for the most fun workday in
comparison to some of the other topics that we get to,
do so big shout out to the. Team the last
time we talked about this trial on the, podcast a
listener made the suggestion to include additional sexual assault resources
in the show. Notes thank you so much to that.
(09:06):
Gister we have added some this. Time as we, mentioned
thank you so much for reminding us of the. Importance
we've included a link to that, episode episode, four five
eight if you'd like additional context related to this, case
and then we've also included some of those resources in
our show.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Notes and as, always if it's just not a good
time for, you, mentally emotionally for you to, listen we
appreciate you jumping, in feel free to jump, out and
we will be here in your feed next. Week and
we appreciate all of the love and support that you
continue to give the podcast and jis so thank you so.
Much for those who are unfamiliar with the, case maybe
(09:41):
this is the first time you're hearing about, this or
you didn't have a chance to listen to previous podcast,
episodes we're just going to start off with a quick
summary before we go into the latest, updates and the
latest updates is the reason why we are talking about
it again. Today the verdict will be announced On july twenty.
Fourth that is something that we just. Learned the case
itself is related to five Former Canadian World Junior hockey,
(10:04):
players all of whom won gold With Team canada at
the twenty eighteen. Tournament and we're not just mentioning that
accolade for no. Reason in the previous, episode we did
also mention that the reason we're talking about the result
of that tournament is because in twenty, Eighteen june, eighteenth twenty,
eighteen to be, specific that was the night that the
alleged assault took, place and the players were together and
(10:26):
they were celebrating their win at a gala In, London, Ontario.
Canada so that is why we mentioned, that.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And for Our american listeners, too The World juniors until
a couple of years, ago when a lot of things
went down With Hockey, canada it was it was required
viewing For. Canadians it was probably the biggest thing That
canada tuned into over the. Holidays everyone went to the
(10:53):
bars and, droves watched with their family and. Drove you
knew the names of these young, kids and essentially these
are all of the players who are under twenty years,
old and they're essentially playing For Team, CANADA, Tmsa Team,
sweden et, cetera et, cetera and they're kind of the
next big names in THE. Nhl so a lot of
people like to pay attention to the junior tournament because
(11:14):
these are the names of the future and who we're
going to see in the big, show.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And it takes. Place it always starts On Boxing day
the summer twenty.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Sixth, yes so that's just some. Context the complainant in
this case is referred to AS em to protect her.
Identity SO em and one of the, Accused michael, McLeod
met at a bar before leaving together and having consensual
sex at The Delta, armories a hotel In, London, Ontario.
Canada McLeod then sent a group text to a group
(11:42):
chat that included eleven, players inviting them to his, room
and this is Where em was allegedly, assaulted, degraded and
not permitted to leave for. Hours the other four players
charged with sexual assault Are Dylan, dubey Cal, Foot Carter,
hart And Alex. Fermenton all five players have pleaded not.
Guilty all five players are also relatively big, names and
(12:03):
so you might recognize some of.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Them and of COURSE em is really being put through
the ringer throughout this. Trial AND i do want to
give some context here THAT i learned recently WHEN i
was talking about this particular case with a friend who
has a lot more knowledge about these things THAN i,
do and she mentioned to, me and THEN i did
of course google it after as well that In, canada
police are actually responsible for laying assault. Charges so in
(12:27):
this particular, case it was brought forward by the, police
not em so she is participating in the, trial but
she didn't necessarily lay these. Charges charges are laid after
enough evidence has been provided and the police think that
it should be charged or it should go to.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Trial and that was such a good point steph because
we even as Being, CANADIANS i think THAT i feel
LIKE i know more about THE us legal system me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Too all of OUR tv shows are based on THE
us legal system, too, right like everything that we can
consume Watch. American, yeah you.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Watch one episode Of suits and you're up to, date
and so THAT i feel like that's kind of new here.
Too there is some sort of civil side of things,
too and monetary side of things as. Well i'm not
sure if that is separate of this is.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Separate so that that happened back in twenty, eighteen she
initially went to the police and all of that happened,
then and then in twenty twenty, two this is When
Hockey canada started to or it started to become aware
That Hockey canada had done a lot of covering up
of sexual, assaults and there's a lot of pressure put
on by the. Government there was a lot of pressure
(13:35):
put on by the public at the time to really
right some, wrongs and at that point the police reopened
the investigation in twenty twenty. Two so that came after
all of this public pressure and, well okay pressure from
the federal government that it was.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
REOPENED i think that's a really important, nuance especially because because.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It's going to come in when we talk about what
the defense is, saying keep that in.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Mind AND i think so when we're talking about the
defense two. Stuff defense lawyers have employed very victim blaming,
strategy and all of the players have their own individual defense,
lawyers and all of them are coming in and just
putting her through absolute.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Turmoil, yeah the five men are standing trial, together so
it's to not have five separate, trials which is kind
of new in The canadian legal. System so at least
there's that that's a new advancement that instead of doing
five separate, trials they're at least going to do. One
so there is, That but, yeah it is very victim.
Blaming that's happening right.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Now, yeah and we talked about it a little bit
in that episode you mentioned four fifty, eight if you
want to go back and. Listen so they're in their
kind of closing argument stage and they're making their closing
statements to the, judge and as of recording, yesterday all
five defense teams have given their closing statements and The
crown aka the prosecution also began giving. Theirs and a
(14:56):
lot of this strategy is rearing it's ugly head to.
Get one of the most jarring parts of the closing
statements that explicitly needs to be addressed was By formenton's,
lawyer who has already been a bit of a problem
in this. Case for Context on that the trial was
originally supposed to be decided by, jury but now it
will be decided only By Justice Maria, carcia and that's
(15:18):
because two different sets of juris were dismissed in this.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Case the most recent, dismissal which occurred On may, sixteenth
happened because For menton's, Lawyers Daniel brown And Hillary, dudding
were accused by the jury of whispering to each other
and laughing at some of the. Jurors oh my, God
so The crown deemed that the jury could no longer
be impartial and now it's a judge only. Trial that
was the second. One the first time it. Happened the
(15:43):
judge declared a miss trial On april twenty, fifth and
that was also related to a jury lawyer.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Issue what's happened to? Professionalism you'd think that in the
courts that's where the highest level of professionalism would, be
but here we. Are so For menon's, Lawyer Daniel brown in,
particular was doing his closing statement and he started to
ACCUSE em of lying under. Oath and this WHEN i
(16:08):
was reading This wednesday, morning stepf this started to really
make my blood. Boil and that is WHEN i sent
the link of the updates of what's happening in this
case to the team and be, like this entire thing
is making me. Sick his biggest claim for Accusing em
of perjury is that she incorrectly stated her. Weight fermentin's
(16:29):
lawyer was referring to his cross examination OF em when
he asked her how much she weighed In june twenty.
Eighteen When em stated her, Weight brown Showed em her
medical records that stated she weighed eighteen pounds. More in
addition to, that much of his closing statement was straight
out of the victim blaming. Handbook he said that she wanted,
money referring to her three point five million settlement With
(16:50):
Hockey canada that you, Mentioned, steph and he said that
she lied about being too drunk to. Consent and the
part that stood out to me was when he, Said
Hockey canada scrutinized is the people that are on these,
teams and they wanted to ensure that they had character
people on the. Team there's a few THINGS i want
to dig in. Here first of, all weight and women's, weaight,
(17:11):
like does this guy have a? Clue so? Idiotic IF
i had a, Nickel i'm, like there's we know that
there's three things in life that people lie about their,
weight their, salary and their golf.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
SCORE i also have no idea how MUCH i went.
TOTALLY i couldn't tell you what two years, ago WHAT
i wait?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Today so they were they were saying one twenty to
one thirty. Eight you, Actually i've it's the Same I've
i've been on both sides literally within the last twelve.
Months it's. You you can't you don't notice it's the.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Same, sorry that's the.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Same it's it's so. Anyway so that was really frustrating
me because it just felt like such a classic stupid
lawyer thing to, say WHICH i Know i'm supposed to be,
whatever but like so annoying. There and then the second,
thing they the character people on the. Team no sports
and men's worts in, particular has never proven. That we
(18:03):
have talked About Deshaun watson on this, Podcast we've talked
About Tyreek hill on this, Podcast we've talked about these
five boys on this. Podcast they. Don't they choose the
best players who they think are going to win them a,
championship regardless of if they're good people or.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Not and THEN i turned a blind eye.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Exactly they turn a bad behavior exactly if it gets
them a gold.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Medal and that's why we're talking about this, story right
because back in twenty twenty, two there was a bombshell
report that dropped That Hockey canona had a slush fund
to settle sexual assault, lawsuits so they had money set
aside to deal with situations because they knew that these
situations were, inevitable quote unquote inevitable that's my that's my.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Wording, yeah because they weren't hiring character. Guys they weren't
bringing character guys onto the. Team they knew that there
was going to be. Issues and this slush run you're
talking about stuff apparently there was over eight million dollars
that were paid out to sexual assault. Complainants. Quality you
don't have that set aside when you know that you
have good people on the, team or that a women's
(19:09):
league would never a women's league would.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Never would. Never. Yeah, yeah and they just a, reminder
use player registration funds to pay those settlements, out like
your registration. Funds, yeah to avoid public, scrutinity to avoid insurance,
investigations to.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Avoid scrutinizing these. Boys, yeah and we're supposed to trust.
Them and this is what fermental lawyers. Saying they're like
Trust Hockey, canada their character, people their character, guys like,
whatever they give a rats ask about what these guys
do off of the. Ice they say that they're building
the next. Generation they haven't done a great job of.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It M. Yeah and the one thing that we'll get
to this in a, bit but so much of the
coverage that came out in the last couple of days,
too was really focusing on the defense and not so
much to the. Crown but we will know the verdict
On july twenty, fourth and regardless of the, outcome of,
course this case probably is sit insenting because we don't
often see people stand trial for sexual, assault let alone.
(20:05):
Five it's, five, right, yep, yeah five professional. Athletes so
let's share a couple numbers for context, here just so
we all understand what's going on, Here and we're going
to use Statistics canada because this is A canadian. Case
one in five cases of sexual assaults reported to the
police In canada results in a. Trial within that one in,
five only one in nine of those cases result in a,
(20:28):
conviction so it is a very small, percentage and those
numbers only include the cases that are. Reported according to
the twenty Nineteen General Social survey On Canadian, safety less
than six percent of sexual assaults are reported to the
police at, all and.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
This case makes a very clear show of why only
six percent of sexual assaults are reported based off of
the way em has been treated by the defense throughout
this entire. Trial you can't blame these survivors for potentially
not wanting to report it if they're going to go
through the eight year trauma that they That em is
(21:04):
going through right.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Now EM's, Lawyer Making cunningham's closing statement illustrated just this
this this frustrating, feeling this fact that this comes down to.
Consent she said that a lot of the defense's arguments
hinge on a series of beliefs and assumptions that are
rooted in myths and stereotypes about what consent is and
how it can be. Communicated and we see this so
(21:26):
often in these kinds of. Cases it's, just you, know
the classic what can we do to prove that she
is not, trustworthy that she should that she was.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Probably she did give, consent or like it was fine
that she was. Drinking it's just it's. Ridiculous And, steph
so we are kind of getting into The crowns closing
statement and you had Mentioned Making, cunningham and she's done
a great, JOB i think so far with her closing,
statement she has laid out five clear reasons as to
Why em initiated the group sex or initiating the consent was,
(22:03):
impossible including the testimony of two other players who visited
the room earlier in the evening and the texts the
next day that Reiterate EM's surprise that other men came
into the. Room she talked about how, McLeod who was an,
athlete lied to investigators in twenty eighteen about why the
additional men were in the room and where there's clear
(22:26):
evidence he sent a text inviting them for a three,
way and so she's bringing it right back to the
evidence and being like it is in front of your.
Face Please justice make the right decision.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Here and, again because this happened in twenty, eighteen And
em went to the police in twenty, Eighteen so when
they're talking about, investigators they're talking about the initial investigation
that happened back. Then so the case is in the
judge's hands because again to Miss, trials jury has been
dismissed and, yeah we don't know what's going to. Happen
we're kind of in A i would love to keep
(22:58):
continuing to learn more about what's happened with the closing
statements from The, crown but the fact that we're even
hear that this case is on trial hopefully helps to
shift the culture into shift the public perception of what
it means to be sexually assaulted and to talk about.
(23:18):
CONSENT i, mean reading the comments don't make me overly,
optimistic BUT i will maybe try and stop.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Too and a shout out again To rick West head
FROM tsn for all of his incredible coverage on, THIS i,
think for keeping people, accountable for showing and telling both,
sides but also being really respectful to em and The
crown throughout all of this. Too it's really. Cool again
(23:44):
we talked about this on the prior. Episode it's great
seeing this from an organization LIKE tsn that makes money
off of, hockey that makes money off of The World,
juniors that is a subsidiary of a massive corporation LIKE,
espn and this is part of the reason why we
need journalism and we need, reporters and it's it's really
him THAT'S i think a lot of this too is
(24:06):
keeping them accountable and was part of the big twenty
dars below up Of Hockey canada was thanks to him
and his colleagues. Reporting so shout out To.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Rick another shout out To Amazon business for sponsoring this.
Episode if there's one Thing amazon specializes, in it's, convenience
and that's true of both their personal and business. Programs
when you sign your company up For Amazon, business you
receive access to deals on countless office items in addition to,
(24:38):
fast reliable. Shipping make the easy choice for your small
business and Choose Amazon business for all your work related.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Purchases, okay thank you all for sticking with us and
for tuning. In that marks the end of today's. Episode
we know it was a have you, on but we
appreciate you all so.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Much we'll be back in your feed with the new
podcast On. Tuesday in the. Meantime if you enjoyed this
episode or if you found it, important we would love
if you could, rate, review and.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Subscribe this episode was edited By Zachary rule and produced
By Lisa minotillo And Alexandra. Puccio, Again i'm Alan hslab.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I'm Seth. Ratts please take care of yourself and
if you need the support or if you want those
resources linked in the show, notes just a reminder to
check those out and we'll be back in your feets On.
Tuesday
Hello, diisteners, Welcome or welcome back to another episode of
The Gist of It. Today's Thursday, June twelfth. We're your
co hosts. I'm Ellen Hyslop and I'm Steph Rotts. And
though the weather is looking great outside, it's getting warmer,
it's getting sunnier. In the sports world, there are still
some heavy topics that we need to be covering and
going through today, So we are going to be covering
(00:31):
the latest update from the ongoing Hockey Canada sexual assault
trial today. The trials in its final days, with the
defense giving their closing arguments and frankly making some disturbing
insinuations about alleged sexual assault survivor em which is how
they go by in this case and in this trial.
All to say, given the nature of this trial, this
(00:51):
episode is heavy. If you need to take care of
yourself and skip this one, we very much understand. We
also do want to mention as much as this is
something that's happening in Canada, this situation is pervasive across
sports period, So no matter where you live, no matter
what sports you follow, we do think that this is
a topic that's important for us to think about in
(01:14):
a broader sports ecosystem too.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, and hockey period. If you play hockey, you definitely
understand I think the culture that allows this type of
thing to happen or allegedly happen. Yeah, And it is
quite a unique case. And there are different ways too
that these cases present themselves in the US versus Canada.
(01:38):
So it is good to kind of understand those differences as.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
We talk to and whether you listen to the end
of the episode or not, we have linkeds some helpful
sexual assault advocacy groups in the show notes that provide
resources for survivors, including hotlines for those who have experienced
sexual assault. All of these groups are in Canada and
in the US, all of them except donations. Because of
(02:02):
the nature of the podcast today as much as in
our last pod, we really encourage a lot of people
to send us in voicemails for our personal training session.
It didn't feel right today to have a little personal
training sessh At the end of the podcast, thanks so
much to everyone who's sent in their voicemails. We listen
to them. We're going to get to them next week.
If you want to leave us a voicemail again so
(02:24):
that you can be featured in our Personal Training Session.
At another time, you can call us at one four
three seven, five, six, four five, five seven nine, or
when you go to our show notes, you can hold
down a link in our show notes and you can
call us from there.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
One thing that we are going to do before we
get into the one Big story today is we are
going to call an audible for folks who are unfamiliar.
This is a new section of our podcast, and it's
going off of that football term that refers to a
quarterback changing the play on the field.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yes, and what we wanted to talk about today was
a few updates in the men's sports world. We have
the Stanley Cup Final going on between Edmonton and the
Florida Panthers, which is a rematch from last year. We
have the Oklahoma City Thunder squaring Offhagruns the Indiana Pacers.
On the NBA side of things, Oilers are down two
(03:13):
to one in the Stanley Cup Final to the Florida Panthers.
Game four is tonight at eight pm Eastern. Game four
is also in Florida. As for the NBA Finals, they
are actually happening while we're recording tonight Game three. But
before this recording, OKC and Indiana were tied one to one.
(03:35):
What I find it interesting in all of this stuff
is that both the Stanley Cup Final has kind of
their own narrative and the NBA Finals has their narrative.
And the biggest thing on the NBA Final side is
that there's a lot of people complaining. Have you been
seeing that online?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Wait? Sorry, I I space out NBA or NHL.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Who's complaining?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Okay, why are they complaining?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
NBA, NBA, NBA? People are planning the minute I talk
about men's sports. Steph Yans, I'm like, first we have
to talk about the men.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So sorry, Apparently I start one of my work calls
with this one person with a yawn every single time.
And no, it just might be a habit that it can't.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Break, apparently too. You know how dogs ye on when
they're feeling anxious or when they don't like something. Do
you think I just did that? I do wonder if
that's what you did, or if maybe that's what you're
doing with your colleague, if maybe you're nervous. I'm just anxious.
And I didn't realize that humans actually do that too,
because it does regulate your nervous system interesting. Yeah, So anyway,
(04:38):
if anyone wants to take a yawn right now, because
we are going to keep on talking about men's sports
for a minute. The biggest thing that people were talking about,
Steph is that, like, okay, see in Indiana and this
being the NBA Finals is really bad for the NBA
because they're not major market teams. And there's been so
many takes online saying that, and then there's been a
(04:59):
lot of really amazing female analysts and broadcasters that are like,
what do you guys mean? We have been getting annoyed
that it's been the same teams over and over and
over again, and the same big names over and over
and over again. And now finally we have people and
teams that are in the finals that we haven't seen before.
(05:21):
In Okac in Indiana. We have stories like Pascal Siakam,
we have stories like Tyrese Halbert, and we have stories
like Shake Gilgos Alexander and these are all new and
fresh and something for us to think about. And y'all
are complaining and fans are complaining what's going on? And
I feel like that's very very reminiscent or very representative
of the human condition and that we just like to complain.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It's that meme from the notebook what do you want?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
What do you want? I don't know what I want? Really,
that was a really good impressions. Thank you. Yeah, that
was really good. She can do right? Or what was
he in the notebook?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Noah? Something I know?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But what was his name? Jake? Noah? What was he jacin?
Crazy stupid love?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Was that the one with Steve Krall?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Is he Jake in that sleigh? Yeah? So good, so
good anyway, So what I have to say to that is, yeah,
I think that I was one of those people that
was like, yeah, this isn't great for the NBA. Yeah,
you love That's meusiness. I'm a business early and like
I do stand by it for sure. But that's also
where I think it's our responsibility as the media to
(06:34):
give this finals the same amount of attention as we
would a Boston LA Final or a you know what
I mean. Like to me, then that's our that's on us.
That's our fault if people aren't tuning in in the
same way.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You know what I was thinking about today and that
I was really happy that y'all posted on Instagram and
speaking of it's our responsibility to shift narratives is I
love that you guys posted the video of Angel Reese
pushing the or fixing Holly Ro's eyelash in her interview,
because I do think that it is also important to
show those softer sides when people are so quick to
(07:07):
have this angry woman narrative and create this rivalry between
her and Kaylyn Clark. So I really like to let
you guys post that. And I scrolled through the comments
and that was a common sentiment. Sorry to bring this
back to what with sports?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Sorry not sorry, but no, it was really sweet and
Angel re Yeah, it's just women are multifaceted and there's
so many different ways to look at it, and again,
we have a responsibility. I don't know who's gonna win
the series. I think OKAC should be able to walk
away with it. If Game two is any indication, I
do think the Florida Panthers, after winning that third game emphatically,
(07:40):
I think it ended up being six', One edmonton has
to come out swinging In game four if they want
a chance at. ALL i do see the series going
again To game, seven but this Time edmonton has homice,
advantage so we'll see what.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Happens hopefully another shout out To Amazon business for sponsoring this.
Episode if there's one Thing amazon specializes, in it's, convenience
and that's true of both their personal and business. Programs
when you sign your company up For Amazon, business you
(08:14):
receive access to deals on countless office items in addition to,
fast reliable. Shipping make the easy choice for your small
business and Choose Amazon business for all your work related.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Purchases, okay. Y'all as we mentioned at the beginning of this,
episode today's One Big, story we'll focus on the Ongoing
Hockey canada sexual assault. Trial it's a difficult, topic so
please take care while you, listen and yet, again thank
(08:44):
you to our amazing producers for doing all of this,
research putting all of this, Together especially when it's a heavy,
topic it doesn't make for the most fun workday in
comparison to some of the other topics that we get to,
do so big shout out to the. Team the last
time we talked about this trial on the, podcast a
listener made the suggestion to include additional sexual assault resources
in the show. Notes thank you so much to that.
(09:06):
Gister we have added some this. Time as we, mentioned
thank you so much for reminding us of the. Importance
we've included a link to that, episode episode, four five
eight if you'd like additional context related to this, case
and then we've also included some of those resources in
our show.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Notes and as, always if it's just not a good
time for, you, mentally emotionally for you to, listen we
appreciate you jumping, in feel free to jump, out and
we will be here in your feed next. Week and
we appreciate all of the love and support that you
continue to give the podcast and jis so thank you so.
Much for those who are unfamiliar with the, case maybe
(09:41):
this is the first time you're hearing about, this or
you didn't have a chance to listen to previous podcast,
episodes we're just going to start off with a quick
summary before we go into the latest, updates and the
latest updates is the reason why we are talking about
it again. Today the verdict will be announced On july twenty.
Fourth that is something that we just. Learned the case
itself is related to five Former Canadian World Junior hockey,
(10:04):
players all of whom won gold With Team canada at
the twenty eighteen. Tournament and we're not just mentioning that
accolade for no. Reason in the previous, episode we did
also mention that the reason we're talking about the result
of that tournament is because in twenty, Eighteen june, eighteenth twenty,
eighteen to be, specific that was the night that the
alleged assault took, place and the players were together and
(10:26):
they were celebrating their win at a gala In, London, Ontario.
Canada so that is why we mentioned, that.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And for Our american listeners, too The World juniors until
a couple of years, ago when a lot of things
went down With Hockey, canada it was it was required
viewing For. Canadians it was probably the biggest thing That
canada tuned into over the. Holidays everyone went to the
(10:53):
bars and, droves watched with their family and. Drove you
knew the names of these young, kids and essentially these
are all of the players who are under twenty years,
old and they're essentially playing For Team, CANADA, Tmsa Team,
sweden et, cetera et, cetera and they're kind of the
next big names in THE. Nhl so a lot of
people like to pay attention to the junior tournament because
(11:14):
these are the names of the future and who we're
going to see in the big, show.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And it takes. Place it always starts On Boxing day
the summer twenty.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Sixth, yes so that's just some. Context the complainant in
this case is referred to AS em to protect her.
Identity SO em and one of the, Accused michael, McLeod
met at a bar before leaving together and having consensual
sex at The Delta, armories a hotel In, London, Ontario.
Canada McLeod then sent a group text to a group
(11:42):
chat that included eleven, players inviting them to his, room
and this is Where em was allegedly, assaulted, degraded and
not permitted to leave for. Hours the other four players
charged with sexual assault Are Dylan, dubey Cal, Foot Carter,
hart And Alex. Fermenton all five players have pleaded not.
Guilty all five players are also relatively big, names and
(12:03):
so you might recognize some of.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Them and of COURSE em is really being put through
the ringer throughout this. Trial AND i do want to
give some context here THAT i learned recently WHEN i
was talking about this particular case with a friend who
has a lot more knowledge about these things THAN i,
do and she mentioned to, me and THEN i did
of course google it after as well that In, canada
police are actually responsible for laying assault. Charges so in
(12:27):
this particular, case it was brought forward by the, police
not em so she is participating in the, trial but
she didn't necessarily lay these. Charges charges are laid after
enough evidence has been provided and the police think that
it should be charged or it should go to.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Trial and that was such a good point steph because
we even as Being, CANADIANS i think THAT i feel
LIKE i know more about THE us legal system me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Too all of OUR tv shows are based on THE
us legal system, too, right like everything that we can
consume Watch. American, yeah you.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Watch one episode Of suits and you're up to, date
and so THAT i feel like that's kind of new here.
Too there is some sort of civil side of things,
too and monetary side of things as. Well i'm not
sure if that is separate of this is.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Separate so that that happened back in twenty, eighteen she
initially went to the police and all of that happened,
then and then in twenty twenty, two this is When
Hockey canada started to or it started to become aware
That Hockey canada had done a lot of covering up
of sexual, assaults and there's a lot of pressure put
on by the. Government there was a lot of pressure
(13:35):
put on by the public at the time to really
right some, wrongs and at that point the police reopened
the investigation in twenty twenty. Two so that came after
all of this public pressure and, well okay pressure from
the federal government that it was.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
REOPENED i think that's a really important, nuance especially because because.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It's going to come in when we talk about what
the defense is, saying keep that in.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Mind AND i think so when we're talking about the
defense two. Stuff defense lawyers have employed very victim blaming,
strategy and all of the players have their own individual defense,
lawyers and all of them are coming in and just
putting her through absolute.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Turmoil, yeah the five men are standing trial, together so
it's to not have five separate, trials which is kind
of new in The canadian legal. System so at least
there's that that's a new advancement that instead of doing
five separate, trials they're at least going to do. One
so there is, That but, yeah it is very victim.
Blaming that's happening right.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Now, yeah and we talked about it a little bit
in that episode you mentioned four fifty, eight if you
want to go back and. Listen so they're in their
kind of closing argument stage and they're making their closing
statements to the, judge and as of recording, yesterday all
five defense teams have given their closing statements and The
crown aka the prosecution also began giving. Theirs and a
(14:56):
lot of this strategy is rearing it's ugly head to.
Get one of the most jarring parts of the closing
statements that explicitly needs to be addressed was By formenton's,
lawyer who has already been a bit of a problem
in this. Case for Context on that the trial was
originally supposed to be decided by, jury but now it
will be decided only By Justice Maria, carcia and that's
(15:18):
because two different sets of juris were dismissed in this.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Case the most recent, dismissal which occurred On may, sixteenth
happened because For menton's, Lawyers Daniel brown And Hillary, dudding
were accused by the jury of whispering to each other
and laughing at some of the. Jurors oh my, God
so The crown deemed that the jury could no longer
be impartial and now it's a judge only. Trial that
was the second. One the first time it. Happened the
(15:43):
judge declared a miss trial On april twenty, fifth and
that was also related to a jury lawyer.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Issue what's happened to? Professionalism you'd think that in the
courts that's where the highest level of professionalism would, be
but here we. Are so For menon's, Lawyer Daniel brown in,
particular was doing his closing statement and he started to
ACCUSE em of lying under. Oath and this WHEN i
(16:08):
was reading This wednesday, morning stepf this started to really
make my blood. Boil and that is WHEN i sent
the link of the updates of what's happening in this
case to the team and be, like this entire thing
is making me. Sick his biggest claim for Accusing em
of perjury is that she incorrectly stated her. Weight fermentin's
(16:29):
lawyer was referring to his cross examination OF em when
he asked her how much she weighed In june twenty.
Eighteen When em stated her, Weight brown Showed em her
medical records that stated she weighed eighteen pounds. More in
addition to, that much of his closing statement was straight
out of the victim blaming. Handbook he said that she wanted,
money referring to her three point five million settlement With
(16:50):
Hockey canada that you, Mentioned, steph and he said that
she lied about being too drunk to. Consent and the
part that stood out to me was when he, Said
Hockey canada scrutinized is the people that are on these,
teams and they wanted to ensure that they had character
people on the. Team there's a few THINGS i want
to dig in. Here first of, all weight and women's, weaight,
(17:11):
like does this guy have a? Clue so? Idiotic IF
i had a, Nickel i'm, like there's we know that
there's three things in life that people lie about their,
weight their, salary and their golf.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
SCORE i also have no idea how MUCH i went.
TOTALLY i couldn't tell you what two years, ago WHAT
i wait?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Today so they were they were saying one twenty to
one thirty. Eight you, Actually i've it's the Same I've
i've been on both sides literally within the last twelve.
Months it's. You you can't you don't notice it's the.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Same, sorry that's the.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Same it's it's so. Anyway so that was really frustrating
me because it just felt like such a classic stupid
lawyer thing to, say WHICH i Know i'm supposed to be,
whatever but like so annoying. There and then the second,
thing they the character people on the. Team no sports
and men's worts in, particular has never proven. That we
(18:03):
have talked About Deshaun watson on this, Podcast we've talked
About Tyreek hill on this, Podcast we've talked about these
five boys on this. Podcast they. Don't they choose the
best players who they think are going to win them a,
championship regardless of if they're good people or.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Not and THEN i turned a blind eye.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Exactly they turn a bad behavior exactly if it gets
them a gold.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Medal and that's why we're talking about this, story right
because back in twenty twenty, two there was a bombshell
report that dropped That Hockey canona had a slush fund
to settle sexual assault, lawsuits so they had money set
aside to deal with situations because they knew that these
situations were, inevitable quote unquote inevitable that's my that's my.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Wording, yeah because they weren't hiring character. Guys they weren't
bringing character guys onto the. Team they knew that there
was going to be. Issues and this slush run you're
talking about stuff apparently there was over eight million dollars
that were paid out to sexual assault. Complainants. Quality you
don't have that set aside when you know that you
have good people on the, team or that a women's
(19:09):
league would never a women's league would.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Never would. Never. Yeah, yeah and they just a, reminder
use player registration funds to pay those settlements, out like
your registration. Funds, yeah to avoid public, scrutinity to avoid insurance,
investigations to.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Avoid scrutinizing these. Boys, yeah and we're supposed to trust.
Them and this is what fermental lawyers. Saying they're like
Trust Hockey, canada their character, people their character, guys like,
whatever they give a rats ask about what these guys
do off of the. Ice they say that they're building
the next. Generation they haven't done a great job of.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It M. Yeah and the one thing that we'll get
to this in a, bit but so much of the
coverage that came out in the last couple of days,
too was really focusing on the defense and not so
much to the. Crown but we will know the verdict
On july twenty, fourth and regardless of the, outcome of,
course this case probably is sit insenting because we don't
often see people stand trial for sexual, assault let alone.
(20:05):
Five it's, five, right, yep, yeah five professional. Athletes so
let's share a couple numbers for context, here just so
we all understand what's going on, Here and we're going
to use Statistics canada because this is A canadian. Case
one in five cases of sexual assaults reported to the
police In canada results in a. Trial within that one in,
five only one in nine of those cases result in a,
(20:28):
conviction so it is a very small, percentage and those
numbers only include the cases that are. Reported according to
the twenty Nineteen General Social survey On Canadian, safety less
than six percent of sexual assaults are reported to the
police at, all and.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
This case makes a very clear show of why only
six percent of sexual assaults are reported based off of
the way em has been treated by the defense throughout
this entire. Trial you can't blame these survivors for potentially
not wanting to report it if they're going to go
through the eight year trauma that they That em is
(21:04):
going through right.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Now EM's, Lawyer Making cunningham's closing statement illustrated just this
this this frustrating, feeling this fact that this comes down to.
Consent she said that a lot of the defense's arguments
hinge on a series of beliefs and assumptions that are
rooted in myths and stereotypes about what consent is and
how it can be. Communicated and we see this so
(21:26):
often in these kinds of. Cases it's, just you, know
the classic what can we do to prove that she
is not, trustworthy that she should that she was.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Probably she did give, consent or like it was fine
that she was. Drinking it's just it's. Ridiculous And, steph
so we are kind of getting into The crowns closing
statement and you had Mentioned Making, cunningham and she's done
a great, JOB i think so far with her closing,
statement she has laid out five clear reasons as to
Why em initiated the group sex or initiating the consent was,
(22:03):
impossible including the testimony of two other players who visited
the room earlier in the evening and the texts the
next day that Reiterate EM's surprise that other men came
into the. Room she talked about how, McLeod who was an,
athlete lied to investigators in twenty eighteen about why the
additional men were in the room and where there's clear
(22:26):
evidence he sent a text inviting them for a three,
way and so she's bringing it right back to the
evidence and being like it is in front of your.
Face Please justice make the right decision.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Here and, again because this happened in twenty, eighteen And
em went to the police in twenty, Eighteen so when
they're talking about, investigators they're talking about the initial investigation
that happened back. Then so the case is in the
judge's hands because again to Miss, trials jury has been
dismissed and, yeah we don't know what's going to. Happen
we're kind of in A i would love to keep
(22:58):
continuing to learn more about what's happened with the closing
statements from The, crown but the fact that we're even
hear that this case is on trial hopefully helps to
shift the culture into shift the public perception of what
it means to be sexually assaulted and to talk about.
(23:18):
CONSENT i, mean reading the comments don't make me overly,
optimistic BUT i will maybe try and stop.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Too and a shout out again To rick West head
FROM tsn for all of his incredible coverage on, THIS i,
think for keeping people, accountable for showing and telling both,
sides but also being really respectful to em and The
crown throughout all of this. Too it's really. Cool again
(23:44):
we talked about this on the prior. Episode it's great
seeing this from an organization LIKE tsn that makes money
off of, hockey that makes money off of The World,
juniors that is a subsidiary of a massive corporation LIKE,
espn and this is part of the reason why we
need journalism and we need, reporters and it's it's really
him THAT'S i think a lot of this too is
(24:06):
keeping them accountable and was part of the big twenty
dars below up Of Hockey canada was thanks to him
and his colleagues. Reporting so shout out To.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Rick another shout out To Amazon business for sponsoring this.
Episode if there's one Thing amazon specializes, in it's, convenience
and that's true of both their personal and business. Programs
when you sign your company up For Amazon, business you
receive access to deals on countless office items in addition to,
(24:38):
fast reliable. Shipping make the easy choice for your small
business and Choose Amazon business for all your work related.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Purchases, okay thank you all for sticking with us and
for tuning. In that marks the end of today's. Episode
we know it was a have you, on but we
appreciate you all so.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Much we'll be back in your feed with the new
podcast On. Tuesday in the. Meantime if you enjoyed this
episode or if you found it, important we would love
if you could, rate, review and.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Subscribe this episode was edited By Zachary rule and produced
By Lisa minotillo And Alexandra. Puccio, Again i'm Alan hslab.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I'm Seth. Ratts please take care of yourself and
if you need the support or if you want those
resources linked in the show, notes just a reminder to
check those out and we'll be back in your feets On.
Tuesday
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