July 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Bring it to the boardroom.
ICYMI, the WNBA players union (WNBPA) is negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) with their employer, the WNBA. Contract restructuring, increased workplace benefits, codifying charter flights — the players’ goals are focused on revamping the growing league…but initial negotiations are not going well.
In today’s episode of The GIST of It, co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Steph Rotz discuss recent comments from some high-profile players about the league’s first proposal, and why it felt like a “slap in the face.” Spicy.
Show notes:
Episode #462: Unpacking the WNBA CBA negotiations
More on The GIST:
☎️ Leave us a voicemail! Call us at 1-437-564-5579 or hold down on this link
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
ICYMI, the WNBA players union (WNBPA) is negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) with their employer, the WNBA. Contract restructuring, increased workplace benefits, codifying charter flights — the players’ goals are focused on revamping the growing league…but initial negotiations are not going well.
In today’s episode of The GIST of It, co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Steph Rotz discuss recent comments from some high-profile players about the league’s first proposal, and why it felt like a “slap in the face.” Spicy.
Show notes:
Episode #462: Unpacking the WNBA CBA negotiations
More on The GIST:
☎️ Leave us a voicemail! Call us at 1-437-564-5579 or hold down on this link
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
What's up, justters, Welcome or welcome back to another episode
of The Gist of It. We hope that you all
enjoyed your long weekend. Today is Tuesday, July eighth. As
prey usual, we're your co hosts. I'm Ellen Hisslov and
I'm Steph Roans, and we have so much to get
to today. A lot of this from the women's sports world,
which is really exciting, and a lot of major updates
(00:28):
coming from the ongoing collective bargaining agreement negotiations between the
WNBA players union and the league's head Haunchos the TLDR.
Things are not going well so far, and I get
so excited when we get to talk about the business
side of sports on the podcast, and Steph, I know
that you really enjoy getting into the labor side and
(00:51):
then the union side of sports on this podcast. For
both male athletes as well as female athletes. So whether
you're new to the CBA negotia or whether you're like
I'm not really into the business side of sports, I
more so want to talk about what's happening on the
field of play. We promise we will make this interesting
and informative for you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Also, we're going to get into a little hot debate
at the very end regarding something very much so of
the field of play. So stick around for that in
our personal training session.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
That is definitely up for debate.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And so we covered this in our Sports Business newsletter.
To Steph like friend of the just Branda Stewart. She's
come on the podcast so much recently. I'm like, wait,
she's obsessed with that.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
She's just whatever you wear being cute. I'm like, what's
that And You're like, oh, it's just Branda Stewart's lie.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Just Stuwie's life, Stewie's line with Puma. I cannot say
better things.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
About the hoodie. You know what a hoodie just like you.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
It's putting and you wear it and you feel cozy,
book cute and you just can't stop wearing it.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's what that hoodie is to me.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And it's not just because it's newish, It's because I
truly just love it so much.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Cute. Yeah, on a type budge right now. And I
really want the ccum Pride collection.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I know, I know, And I'm so proud of you.
I really am proud of you. But I'll just say, Stewie,
best of the gist. She's been making comments publicly about
what's been happening in the CBA negotiations. We talked about
this in our Women's Sports Business newsletter. If you're not subscribed,
go to the Just sports dot com. And so we're
kind of recapping what we know, what the players have
(02:26):
said thus far about negotiations, and I think also looking
at the macro lens of the WNBA is expanding, we're
seeing a lot more sponsorship deals wise, and things necessarily
trickling down to the players and what that all means too.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And they only have until October thirty first, twenty twenty five,
so this year to set a deal. So it is July,
and time goes fast, so before you know it, it's
going to be the end of the season. So this
is really really timely information to get to.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Kind of diabolical that they made it Halloween.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh that didn't even clue click? Yeah, right, isn't that
a little spew?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I don't know if I like that. It is kind
of fun that it's spooky, though, right, I'm like, what
a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Sorry if you're born on October thirty first, but like
that's kind of ominous.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
We have a friend born around November first.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, we do, which is famously not October thirty first.
You're like cool and so wow, we could yap on
about birthdays.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Q far birthday.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay, Stepha is so cute and funny. I want to
talk about something else that I think is cute and funny.
And I'm calling an audible and we're still calling it,
calling an audible despite last week's personal training sash because
we need some more suggestions on if we want to
update the name of this, So let us know dm
us email us at pot at the just sports dot
(03:47):
com and we'll see if we want to change this.
But I'm calling an audible to talk about Wimbledon, and
in particular to talk about world number ten Ben Shelton,
American Ben Shelton. His name, for whatever, reminds me a
little bit, Oh my god, Steph zac Efron's character Troy Bolton,
like Ben Shelton and Troy Bolton.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Does that not give the same vibe?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Shake?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, Like it truly gives the same vibe. And he
has been so sweet this week. For a little bit
of context on Ben Shelton, he's in the top ten rankings,
like he is a very exceptionally good tennis player. He's
been in the tennis zeitgeist, I would say, especially over
the last five years. A lot of tennis fans know
who he is, but he's only twenty two years old,
(04:31):
and a lot of women's sports fans have gotten to
know Ben Shelton through his new recent relationship with the
one and only Trinity Rodman of US women's national team
fame and Washington's Spirit fame. That has been really fun
because I think some of their relationship actually unfolded or
they made it seem like it unfolded, thanks to TikTok
(04:52):
and that shoot shoot trend.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think, Steph, you remember that.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Shoot who what?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You know? That trend that was like shoot to shoot,
what's up with you? And you could put like the
name of who you wanted to talk to?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
No, I never experienced that, Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
So basically it was a trend.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And so I don't know if they did this because
they knew that we would all go gaga about it,
But basically it was a trend on TikTok. Trinity Rodman
was previously in a relationship, she had broken it off,
and then one day she comes on TikTok and she goes,
they say shoot or shoot, and then it went one,
two three as in spacing what's.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Up with you? And people were like, oh my god,
is this for Ben Shelton?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And then Ben responded with a TikTok with the same
amount of words or the same amount of spaces to
spell Trinity's name, and he said trend like what's up
with you? And then after that they confirmed that they
had went on a date and now their boyfriend girlfriend.
And while Trinity Rodman is rehabbing her back, which she's rehabbing,
a lot of people are like, why did she get Wimbledon?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Like she's injured, But.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
While she's been rehabbing, she's been cheering him on in Wimbledon.
So that's where a lot of women's sports fans d
a USL fan, international soccer fans would have gotten to
know Ben Shelton over the last three or six months.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I'm surprised you weren't right on top of that.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
No, and I feel really old now yeah I still
don't really follow, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
It says you're not gen z.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It is cute to think about how famous people can
heart launch the relationships.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So it's so cute so anyway, we've been watching that,
we've been watching Trinity support Ben Shelton, but then we've
also been watching his sister support him. And at the
end of the match last week stuff, he was like,
it's been so great having my family here, my girlfriend here,
and then he goes, but I think it's my sister
who's been my good luck charm, which I've never wanted
a brother before. In that moment, I went, oh my god,
(06:39):
what a sweet thing. Maybe I would have actually enjoyed
a brother.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And he then he called out Morgan Stanley and said, like,
she has to go back to work next week and
go work at Morgan Stanley because.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
She doesn't have a vacation time.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And so if there's anyone who could do anything about
that so that she could stay here and be my
good luck charm, that would be great.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So then lo and behold Morgan Stanley's like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Of course, so they give her more vacation time, they
allow her to stay at Wimbledon for as long as
he can, and she's in the sands literally earlier this
week's Steph and he won a comeback foresetter.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Anyone who advocates for people to have more time off
is a good person in.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
My books, anyone who advocates for their sister.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And I think too, it's so fun about Ben Shelton
and him doing that and everything that he's done with
Trinity Rodman, is that tennis is kind of like this white,
stuffy country club sport. And I think when you think
about Wimbledon, you think about that too. And I think
that tennis, though, is changing thanks to people like him
that are a lot more charismatic and fun and injects their.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Own personality into things.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And so seeing that at a grand Slam like Wimbledon,
and seeing his box and the celebrity and the people
that are in there, I think that it just makes
the entire tournament even more fun. And I think Whibbledon
is probably one of the greatest majors, like probably my
top two favorite majors, and so I just like, I
don't know, I really love this moment, and I really
(08:08):
love that he is still in the tournament because not
a lot of people expected him to make it this far.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I just love fun, So this is great. Yeah, what's
not to love? What's not to love?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I love fun. And for those of you who haven't
watched the lore.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Maybe we'll post something on social media because right now
I'm like gobsmacked, Steph.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Sorry, you work in sports. Yeah, I guess that's true.
We talked about sports toys a week. I'm like, where
are you? Is our jobs to be perpetually online?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
You're right, You're right, You're right, You're right. Apologies, boss, Okay,
We're back to discuss today's one big story, the ongoing
WNBACBA negotiations. As a reminder, a collective bargaining agreement or
(09:00):
CBA is an agreement between his sports league and its
players union outlining the rules that govern the league.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And the rules can include a lot of different things,
but for the most part, we're talking about parameters for compensation, salary,
cap bonuses, and other workforce benefits that you'd find at
any company, like vacations, paid time off, healthcare, and more.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Back in October of twenty twenty four, the WNBPA, which
is the WNBA's players union, announce their intention to opt
out of their current CBA at the end of the
twenty twenty five season and so the season runs may
to October. Preliminary conversations between the league's front office at
the WNBPA started in December in twenty twenty four, with
the deadline to come to a new agreement by October
(09:42):
thirty first of this year. So that's pretty normal to me.
As we mentioned time, spooky, spooky, but cbas they do
take time, So that is I would say commonplace in
terms of that long of a lead away. But for
more on the w NBA CBA history, you can show
out episode four sixty two, which we've put in the
show notes where we unpacked the WNBA's CBA negotiations previously,
(10:07):
so you can go back in time and moving forward.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Moving forward to wmb PA is too much for me
to say. I can't do it. I can't say it properly.
So moving forward, I'm just going to call it the
WNBA and the Players Association, and we just expect the
WNBA Players Association. For whatever reason, it just doesn't roll
off the tongue.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
For me in this anyone in this order, in this order.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I don't know why the other players associations because I
feel like you just tack it on at the end,
like the NFLPA, but the WNBPA, I can't my little
brain can't wrap my head around it.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
That's fine. My little brain can't wraps itself around most things.
So here we are.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Anyway, here we are.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So prior to this season, beginning in May, as you mentioned, Steff,
there was a lot of optimism I would say surrounding
the negotiations. I'd say maybe cautious optimism is what I
would say. People were knowing that they were going to
be talking about it this year. It seems like the
league and the players were somewhat on the same page.
And I would say, at the end of the day,
(11:10):
the w is a league that does want what's best
for its players, like we saw that in the first CBA.
I think it was twenty twenty when we were initially
covering that stuff for twenty twenty one, and now we're
seeing we hope to see it now. But I'd say
after some of these finding words have come out, I
don't know if that's necessarily the case anymore. I don't
(11:31):
know if optimism would be the word that we could use.
The WNBA submitted its first proposal to the players union
or Association at the end of June, and the players
were not satisfied with the terms. The Phoenix Mercury sat
to Sibali and the New York Liberties Brianna Stewart both
commented on the ongoing negotiations last week. Sabali called the
(11:54):
proposal a quote slap in the face. Stewart then backed up,
saying that the players feel quote ignored and quote absolutely
frustrated by the WNBA's initial offer.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Negotiations are so hard.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
We've all been through it in our lives, whether it's
negotiating with your parents about chores, whether it's negotiating for
your own compensation at work, whether it's negotiating for what
color you get to use in class, well you're painting
you have to share with.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
A bunch of other people.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
We've all been in negotiations before, and I think there's
a lot of It's really hard when you anchor yourself
at the beginning because you know that there's going to
be more negotiation that comes, but that initial anchor. It's
either you have to balance that of being close enough
that someone actually wants to continue having conversations with you,
because if you're not close enough, people are like, what
(12:50):
are we doing this for?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
This feels like this is in bad.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Faith, Like me coming to my partner with a three
thousand dollars rug. You'd be like, we're absolutely not getting
a rug. But if I come toime with a nine
hundred dollar rug, he'd be like, Okay, let's look at
a new rug.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
He say, this sounds interesting, talk about exactly let's anchor
us in the right world, do you know what I mean?
And so I feel like that's kind of what they're
saying here. Is like the WNBA is saying, let's start
off with a nine hundred dollars rug, and the Players Association.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Is like, Nah, this needs to be a nine thousand
dollars rug.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
You know. So I that's what I think is happening.
They're not in the same orbit right now.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's so fascinating to me to have all of this
so public, like so many people go through negotiations like
you mentioned, behind closed doors. But we're all so emotionally
invested in this, like you said, because it does feel
like we are at the perfect moment for the players
to get what they want. And we have seen this
before with the Dallas Cowboys chew Laders because they had
(13:47):
the second season come out pretty recently of their Netflix
special and spoiler alert, but it's been all over the news.
They got a four hundred percent pay raise that they
announced at the end of the season, coming off of
the support that they gained from the first season. And
so I feel like this has to be the effect
that we're feeling now because it's such a monumental point
(14:08):
in the WNBA's history. And Stewie, like you mentioned, is
a monumental voice in the league itself. She's vice president
of the Players Association, so she's also very intimately involved
in this negotiation process. She's a major face of the league,
alongside fellow vice president and AFISA Collier and president Neko Gumoke.
(14:28):
And Stewie said, quote, anytime you go back and forth,
you're not expecting to hear that yes on the first proposal,
but you're expecting to have a conversation. They kind of
just ignored everything we said end quote. And that's definitely
not how you would want to feel after all of
this momentum that your league has just had in the
past year.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
That's also not the energy that the league is also
wanting to hear. They don't want to be hearing so
much contention because also when you're thinking about a group
of players that have historically been underpaid, you know, who
the fans are going to side with, you know, who
the media is going to side with, even though we
don't have all of the details and we don't have
(15:08):
all of the contexts, It's going to be the players.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And so I think that that is a.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Really interesting point that study is making that they ignored
everything we said, because then my mind goes to, Okay, what.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Are they valuing and what are they not lining up on.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Some of the things that we talked about Steph previously
in that previous episode was that the players Association is
seeking to include improved working conditions, bringing charter travel into
the mix officially, and then revamping the league's salary structure.
The union wants to transform the current salary system and
introduce an equity base model that would allow players to
(15:46):
directly reap the benefits of league growth. For example, NBA players,
and we've chatted about this on the pod before, receive
a fifty percent cut of all basketball related revenue, which
includes TV deals, ticket sales, merchandise in licensing. In comparison,
WNBA players currently only receive ten percent.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Of league revenue.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And I want to pause here and say the the
WNBA players have said before they're not looking for exactly what.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
The NBA players have.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They know that the WNBA is a scale up league
and they're getting to the place where they want it
to go. They know they're not like the NBA that's
been around for decades longer than the WNBA and has
had so much more support and had so much more
backing than what the WNBA has. That's not what they're
looking for. What they're looking for here basically is figuring
(16:39):
out a way where they are the product that is
driving so much revenue and that is driving so much
tune in that how can they be a part of
the upside potential? And I think what they're saying here
too with this equity based model stuff is that like
they they're the type of people and I would say
majority of female athletes, maybe not all female athletes, but
(17:00):
working with female athletes are literally the best because they
want what's best for the future as well. And so
if you give them more of that piece of revenue
or equity, now you know that they're going to work
their frickin' butts off to make this be the best
product in the entire world. And so I think that
that's really what they're looking for. Is like, hey, we've
(17:21):
been helping you, We've been grinding in this league for
so long.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
How can we be a part of the future.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Mm hmm. Yeah. And they are really hammering home that
they're looking for the same revenue sharing level, like that
is a constant thing that has been said for so
many years too. I feel from these players that they're
just looking for the same percentage that the NBA players
get and that seems like a very fair thing to
be really hammering home that I think the public will
(17:47):
really glom onto. We're so early, this is early in
the negotiation process, but it's becoming increasingly clear based on
these very public statements that the players are making, that
a deal is not happening very soon.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And I think what's tough to steph is again, and
this is probably me coming from the owner side of
a business, you don't exactly know what's happening on the
balance sheet, and so fifty percent of revenue for the
NBA that might make sense for the WNBA. Again, we're
just seeing that like monumental kind of hockey stick growth
(18:22):
over the last three years.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I think the WNBA might be.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Like, oh, I don't know if we can actually afford
fifty percent of top line revenue. It might be more
so like what we see Steff with the NWSL, where
it's based off of profit sharing instead of top line revenue.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Maybe that's something where there.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Can be a little bit more wiggle room or something
that they can come to agreement with each other because
of the stage that the league is at, so obviously
I hear the players here, but I also want to
put it into that context of where the W has been,
where the W's going, but also how it can continue
to afford to get and fully employ thousands of people
(19:02):
and also continue in this expansion. They also have to
take care of the financials and take care of the books,
and so maybe they can't do that fifty percent, but
there should be something, Like I do agree, there needs
to be some sort of better than ten percent, and
potentially something that actually aligns the players a little bit
more to the KPIs of the business.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I think something that's really interesting here is that eighty
percent of WNBA players will be free agents at the
end of this season. They've timed it. It seems like
the restructuring of their contracts to end in alignment with
the end of this currenc CBA. That's what it seems like,
and they've made it pretty clear from the get go
that a lockout or strike is absolutely on the table
if they're not happy with the WNBA's proposals. So I'm
(19:47):
very interested to see how those two facts are going
to line up with the negotiation process.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Oh my gosh, that is such a good point about
free agent stef I've totally forgot about that, Especially when
Stewie was negotiating with New York. I was like, wait,
why is this not going for longer? She could have
got such a guaranteed amount of income. I think step
two we have to talk about, like the WMA when
we were chatting last week, each of these new expansion
(20:14):
teams in Detroit, Cleveland, and Philly paid two hundred and
fifty million dollars. They signed a billion dollar with the
b Media rites deal. We're seeing the most sponsorship that
the league has ever brought in, and then we're also
seeing sponsorship at that team level. And so I think
that's where there's probably some frustration from the players, is like,
this is our moment. We can help poor Gas on
(20:36):
the fire. Let us help wore Gas on the fire
and we will do that if we can be a
part of that growth of said fire too, you know,
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
There's my catchphrase. I mean, we have a couple of months.
We will of course keep you updated, and I'm sure
the Business newsletter will also keep you updated. If you're
not subscribed to that. It's time for our personal training Sash.
This is where we're answer your hard hitting questions about anything,
(21:08):
and we mean anything in the sports world.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, So, as per usual, if you'd like to be
featured in a future episode, please call and leave us
a voicemail at one four three seven five six four
five five seven nine.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Right to the podcast by emailing.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Us at pod at thesports dot com, or message me
or Steph on Insta Ellen the Gist or at seph Rots.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Today's Ernie Rods. Oh yeah, Stephanie Rods.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh my god, if ste me, if anyone else knows
the seph ROTSI literally please give it to you, because
you're not Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I'm just simply not.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
No, You're just not a Stephanie girl. You've always been Seph.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Thank you. Yeah, and you know.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
What, No, actually I was gonna say you're Steph with
an F, but no, you're stuff with a pH, Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I tried to make stuff with an F work once
you remember that like great eight.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I was gonna say, I feel like that was a
grade seven G eight for you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I oh the way that I love your eras you had,
So I feel like I've been quite consistent.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I really you know what I mean, Like I haven't
been too many eras.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
You have literally had so many eras in your life
that you must look back and go, oh my god,
that's so entertaining, because I look back and I go,
oh my god, that's so entertaining.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
One of my former hockey teammates messaged me recently and said,
I have so many photos of you from this tournament
and from this period of our lives playing hockey together,
because you were like the only, like the main one
that would volunteer to get photographed. Because this is like
when I was like super into being emo for the camera.
And so she sent me one of the photos with
my side bangs across my face at a hockey tournament somewhere.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
The Emira Hockey Tournament is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I can just picture your bangs being so greasy and
your skin being so white. But you're under eyeliner being
so dark, like you used to just put that under
like eyeliner on gen Z.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It was a time we were using waterline. We were
doing that.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
We were doing that, Oh, we were using it, but
like in your Emo phase you were using it. Oh
my god, I talk about You're still so sweet the
whole time, like your personality has not changed, which it
just makes the eras even more funny because when you're
in your like sad girl emo era, your tough girl era,
it's still stuff in all of it. But the eras
(23:27):
just make me so excited, like it's just very funny.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm so happy to have You're such a passionate woman.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Anyway, So this is inspired by an Instagram post we
put up over the.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Weekend speaking of passion.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Speaking of passion. We'll link to it in the show notes.
I mean actually had some of our listeners like comment
make comments on that post, and so we are taking
those comments of like what the heck is happening here?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Can you explain it? And we're doing this on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Okay, I'm gonna set the scene for you as we're
we talked about the Euros, the woman's Euros are currently happening.
World number five England scored against They scored first in
their game against number ten France and the opening group
stage URO game on Saturday, that group of death that
we talked about previously, but the goal was called offside,
So England's first goal called offside. England too, are defending
(24:17):
tournament champions, went on to actually lose that game two
to one, which seriously harms our chances of advancing out
of the group stage. That group of death we were
talking about, and that's why this is what we're talking about.
We are talking about offside, and we were talking about
that offside in particular, as per the Instagram post.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yes, and you'll see that on the Instagram post, one
of the players was literally a sliver of a hair offside.
And that's kind of the nitty gritty that we're getting
into today. So zooming out a little bit, let's talk
about how offsides we're in soccer, because they are different
than offside in the NFL. They're very different than offside
(24:55):
and in hockey. And I know that this is Seth's
one of your biggest gripes about playing soccer.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, So I feel like I wish we were
in a visual format right now, because I feel like
I would do better at this. But essentially, in soccer,
the offside rule prevents players from gaining an unfair edge
by staying too close to the opponent's goal. So basically
someone cherry picking as close to the net as possible.
A player is offside if they're in the offensive half,
(25:23):
so not if they're in their own half, only if
they're in the offensive half and closer to the goal
than both the ball and the last defender. The last
defender means the last of the actual people on the field.
It doesn't mean the goalkeeper when the ball is passed
to them, and so that's the hardest part of offside
(25:44):
is you have to make sure that you are in
line with that last defender when your teammate is passing
you the ball. You can't have any basically advantage of
one step, even when that foot of your teammate touches
on that ball. So in the case of England's non goal,
the goal scorer Alesia Russo wasn't offside when she scored
(26:07):
the actual goal, but her teammate Beth Mead was offside
in the build up to the play. And I'm so
sorry for Instagram commenters. That is a fact offside works.
And as a player and as I played a lot
of positions, but I think one of my favorite positions
was striker. It used to drive me up the wall
(26:29):
that the person who didn't score could impact the offside
in such a way even if they did not touch
the ball.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That is the same rule in hockey in that case.
That is the same rule in most sports.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
In that case, the fact is there's another person trying
to gain an advantage that the defenders have to pay
attention to in comparison to like just you, who would
potentially be going for the ball.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
So that is in fact a rule.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
The thing that gets me with this particular example in
that Instagram post is how close yes it is because
to me, I get as a defender. So I just
want to lay my qualifications on the line. I respect
the point the integrity of this rule because I hate
cherry pickers. I hate people who PLoP themselves all the
(27:18):
way at the back. When we were young babies and
we didn't have the offside rule yet, because you don't
play with it when you first start out, because it's
just too much for you'll baby.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
You do no, no, no, no, yeah, no, no, well
not on the small field, but once once you're on
a full sized field, you're.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Not talking baby when you start playing, so oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
When you're only a small no, there's no offside on
small fields.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yes, okay, thank you. So I understand that it is required,
and I do appreciate as a defender that exists. In
this particular example, she is so close that it requires
this extreme zoom in VAR turning them into a little
robot situation to be able to call it. And to me,
(27:58):
that is against the point of shouldn't it just be
more about like the does it really have to come
down to the hair of it all? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
So when Steph is talking about VAR, that's a video
assistant referee and it's this software to make the call,
and it is a mainstay in international soccer and it's
becoming a mainstay in a lot of domestic leagues. Two.
And it's basically able to detective of players offside literally
down to a size of a fingernail. That is how
(28:26):
good this technology is. To your point, Steph, I do
think it is a little bit ridiculous. If it was
people that goal would have one hundred and ten percent counted,
England and France would have walked away with a draw
and Group D would be looking very different and England's
chances in this tournament and advancing out of that group
(28:49):
would be really different, and it's exceptionally important that England
does well, I think for soccer in general, for global soccer,
for them being the defending champions. I don't think to
your point stuff that Bethmean's arm was impacting the play.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
But at the same time.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Those are the rules and var is used for everyone,
So if this was someone on France, they would also
be offside and the and the goal would be called
the same way. So I think that they're just trying
to figure out the best way for fairness because there
has just been so much human error in soccer with
off side.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, and I'm not rooting for England over France, or
France over England or anything like that. I'm just looking
at like the like you said, if that was just
left to the human eye, there's no way that would
have been caught offside, And to me, that's that is
ruining the original intention of the rule and making it
so nitpicky that it brings off like brings down the
(29:47):
overall vibe. But I'm pulling up the Instagram posts because
I want to make sure you and I are on
the same page.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
No, no, no, we're on the same page.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
No way.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
But the blue player that's France, right, England's in the
back and the white yeah okay, because I also think
that there was confusion online with who was who because
again they removed their faces, right le bla.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah, le bla.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So it's hard though, right so, because you're like, yeah,
us by the Naked eye, but us by the Naked
Eye have made so many poor offside calls and exceptionally
important tournaments like the Euros, like FIFA, that it's gone
the other way where it's like, oh my god, I
wish that we had vaar.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
But that's why I did this. I did an article
a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I forget what's what company it was for, but they
literally called me and we talked about var and soccer
and how it was such a thing that is really
debated about in the soccer community and should we use
it should we not? Because then you're like a var
stuff in tennis. I'm watching Wimbledon. I'm obsessed that it
can go right down to that grain of grass and
(30:47):
see if that tennis ball was on the line or
not on the line.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
And that brings me so much joy.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
But that is a sport to me where it literally
millimeters do actually matter if a ball is n row
versus does millimeters.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Matter in soccer?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Maybe not. Maybe the thing is here stuff like maybe
maybe it has to be a foot that's impacting the
play and not an arm. Maybe it has to be
a certain body type. Maybe there has to be not
body type that's a body part, or maybe it has
to be like, okay, they have to be at least
four inches for it to actually be consider I don't know,
(31:26):
but something like that, putting some parameters around it.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, because soccer seems like such more fluid of a game.
Tennis is boom boom, back and forth, and it's very
much so a sport that vr makes sense to me,
whereas in this point, as you're running and you're you know,
looking at your players and you're passing it, it seems
a little bit more fluid. To penalize to the millimeter
(31:50):
or however close this was just seems a little bit
punitive and takes away the flow of the game.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
In my technology, man, you love it when it works.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
For you, and you hate it when it doesn't work
for you. And I think in this case, a lot
of people are feeling very similar to you. Stuff of
give us a break, Like, are we for real right now?
That should have been a goal. We don't think that
that arm changed the play at all, and I would
tend to agree.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Hm hmm. Interesting. Okay, Well with that that mark Sandra
Today's episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. If
you ever have thoughts and feelings like those, please write
in call in d MS.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Please.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
We will be back in your feed with the new
podcast on Thursday. In the meantime, if you enjoyed this episode,
you know the Drill rate, review and subscribe so that
more people can find this podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
This episode was edited by Savannah Halt and produced by
Alessandra Puccio and Lauren Tuscala. Again, I'm Steph Rots.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
And I'm Ellen Hisslap and we will chat with you Thursday.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Pabl
What's up, justters, Welcome or welcome back to another episode
of The Gist of It. We hope that you all
enjoyed your long weekend. Today is Tuesday, July eighth. As
prey usual, we're your co hosts. I'm Ellen Hisslov and
I'm Steph Roans, and we have so much to get
to today. A lot of this from the women's sports world,
which is really exciting, and a lot of major updates
(00:28):
coming from the ongoing collective bargaining agreement negotiations between the
WNBA players union and the league's head Haunchos the TLDR.
Things are not going well so far, and I get
so excited when we get to talk about the business
side of sports on the podcast, and Steph, I know
that you really enjoy getting into the labor side and
(00:51):
then the union side of sports on this podcast. For
both male athletes as well as female athletes. So whether
you're new to the CBA negotia or whether you're like
I'm not really into the business side of sports, I
more so want to talk about what's happening on the
field of play. We promise we will make this interesting
and informative for you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Also, we're going to get into a little hot debate
at the very end regarding something very much so of
the field of play. So stick around for that in
our personal training session.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
That is definitely up for debate.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And so we covered this in our Sports Business newsletter.
To Steph like friend of the just Branda Stewart. She's
come on the podcast so much recently. I'm like, wait,
she's obsessed with that.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
She's just whatever you wear being cute. I'm like, what's
that And You're like, oh, it's just Branda Stewart's lie.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Just Stuwie's life, Stewie's line with Puma. I cannot say
better things.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
About the hoodie. You know what a hoodie just like you.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
It's putting and you wear it and you feel cozy,
book cute and you just can't stop wearing it.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's what that hoodie is to me.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And it's not just because it's newish, It's because I
truly just love it so much.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Cute. Yeah, on a type budge right now. And I
really want the ccum Pride collection.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I know, I know, And I'm so proud of you.
I really am proud of you. But I'll just say, Stewie,
best of the gist. She's been making comments publicly about
what's been happening in the CBA negotiations. We talked about
this in our Women's Sports Business newsletter. If you're not subscribed,
go to the Just sports dot com. And so we're
kind of recapping what we know, what the players have
(02:26):
said thus far about negotiations, and I think also looking
at the macro lens of the WNBA is expanding, we're
seeing a lot more sponsorship deals wise, and things necessarily
trickling down to the players and what that all means too.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And they only have until October thirty first, twenty twenty five,
so this year to set a deal. So it is July,
and time goes fast, so before you know it, it's
going to be the end of the season. So this
is really really timely information to get to.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Kind of diabolical that they made it Halloween.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh that didn't even clue click? Yeah, right, isn't that
a little spew?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I don't know if I like that. It is kind
of fun that it's spooky, though, right, I'm like, what
a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Sorry if you're born on October thirty first, but like
that's kind of ominous.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
We have a friend born around November first.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, we do, which is famously not October thirty first.
You're like cool and so wow, we could yap on
about birthdays.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Q far birthday.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay, Stepha is so cute and funny. I want to
talk about something else that I think is cute and funny.
And I'm calling an audible and we're still calling it,
calling an audible despite last week's personal training sash because
we need some more suggestions on if we want to
update the name of this, So let us know dm
us email us at pot at the just sports dot
(03:47):
com and we'll see if we want to change this.
But I'm calling an audible to talk about Wimbledon, and
in particular to talk about world number ten Ben Shelton,
American Ben Shelton. His name, for whatever, reminds me a
little bit, Oh my god, Steph zac Efron's character Troy Bolton,
like Ben Shelton and Troy Bolton.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Does that not give the same vibe?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Shake?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, Like it truly gives the same vibe. And he
has been so sweet this week. For a little bit
of context on Ben Shelton, he's in the top ten rankings,
like he is a very exceptionally good tennis player. He's
been in the tennis zeitgeist, I would say, especially over
the last five years. A lot of tennis fans know
who he is, but he's only twenty two years old,
(04:31):
and a lot of women's sports fans have gotten to
know Ben Shelton through his new recent relationship with the
one and only Trinity Rodman of US women's national team
fame and Washington's Spirit fame. That has been really fun
because I think some of their relationship actually unfolded or
they made it seem like it unfolded, thanks to TikTok
(04:52):
and that shoot shoot trend.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think, Steph, you remember that.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Shoot who what?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You know? That trend that was like shoot to shoot,
what's up with you? And you could put like the
name of who you wanted to talk to?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
No, I never experienced that, Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
So basically it was a trend.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And so I don't know if they did this because
they knew that we would all go gaga about it,
But basically it was a trend on TikTok. Trinity Rodman
was previously in a relationship, she had broken it off,
and then one day she comes on TikTok and she goes,
they say shoot or shoot, and then it went one,
two three as in spacing what's.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Up with you? And people were like, oh my god,
is this for Ben Shelton?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And then Ben responded with a TikTok with the same
amount of words or the same amount of spaces to
spell Trinity's name, and he said trend like what's up
with you? And then after that they confirmed that they
had went on a date and now their boyfriend girlfriend.
And while Trinity Rodman is rehabbing her back, which she's rehabbing,
a lot of people are like, why did she get Wimbledon?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Like she's injured, But.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
While she's been rehabbing, she's been cheering him on in Wimbledon.
So that's where a lot of women's sports fans d
a USL fan, international soccer fans would have gotten to
know Ben Shelton over the last three or six months.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I'm surprised you weren't right on top of that.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
No, and I feel really old now yeah I still
don't really follow, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
It says you're not gen z.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It is cute to think about how famous people can
heart launch the relationships.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So it's so cute so anyway, we've been watching that,
we've been watching Trinity support Ben Shelton, but then we've
also been watching his sister support him. And at the
end of the match last week stuff, he was like,
it's been so great having my family here, my girlfriend here,
and then he goes, but I think it's my sister
who's been my good luck charm, which I've never wanted
a brother before. In that moment, I went, oh my god,
(06:39):
what a sweet thing. Maybe I would have actually enjoyed
a brother.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And he then he called out Morgan Stanley and said, like,
she has to go back to work next week and
go work at Morgan Stanley because.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
She doesn't have a vacation time.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And so if there's anyone who could do anything about
that so that she could stay here and be my
good luck charm, that would be great.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So then lo and behold Morgan Stanley's like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Of course, so they give her more vacation time, they
allow her to stay at Wimbledon for as long as
he can, and she's in the sands literally earlier this
week's Steph and he won a comeback foresetter.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Anyone who advocates for people to have more time off
is a good person in.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
My books, anyone who advocates for their sister.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And I think too, it's so fun about Ben Shelton
and him doing that and everything that he's done with
Trinity Rodman, is that tennis is kind of like this white,
stuffy country club sport. And I think when you think
about Wimbledon, you think about that too. And I think
that tennis, though, is changing thanks to people like him
that are a lot more charismatic and fun and injects their.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Own personality into things.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And so seeing that at a grand Slam like Wimbledon,
and seeing his box and the celebrity and the people
that are in there, I think that it just makes
the entire tournament even more fun. And I think Whibbledon
is probably one of the greatest majors, like probably my
top two favorite majors, and so I just like, I
don't know, I really love this moment, and I really
(08:08):
love that he is still in the tournament because not
a lot of people expected him to make it this far.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I just love fun, So this is great. Yeah, what's
not to love? What's not to love?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I love fun. And for those of you who haven't
watched the lore.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Maybe we'll post something on social media because right now
I'm like gobsmacked, Steph.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Sorry, you work in sports. Yeah, I guess that's true.
We talked about sports toys a week. I'm like, where
are you? Is our jobs to be perpetually online?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
You're right, You're right, You're right, You're right. Apologies, boss, Okay,
We're back to discuss today's one big story, the ongoing
WNBACBA negotiations. As a reminder, a collective bargaining agreement or
(09:00):
CBA is an agreement between his sports league and its
players union outlining the rules that govern the league.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And the rules can include a lot of different things,
but for the most part, we're talking about parameters for compensation, salary,
cap bonuses, and other workforce benefits that you'd find at
any company, like vacations, paid time off, healthcare, and more.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Back in October of twenty twenty four, the WNBPA, which
is the WNBA's players union, announce their intention to opt
out of their current CBA at the end of the
twenty twenty five season and so the season runs may
to October. Preliminary conversations between the league's front office at
the WNBPA started in December in twenty twenty four, with
the deadline to come to a new agreement by October
(09:42):
thirty first of this year. So that's pretty normal to me.
As we mentioned time, spooky, spooky, but cbas they do
take time, So that is I would say commonplace in
terms of that long of a lead away. But for
more on the w NBA CBA history, you can show
out episode four sixty two, which we've put in the
show notes where we unpacked the WNBA's CBA negotiations previously,
(10:07):
so you can go back in time and moving forward.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Moving forward to wmb PA is too much for me
to say. I can't do it. I can't say it properly.
So moving forward, I'm just going to call it the
WNBA and the Players Association, and we just expect the
WNBA Players Association. For whatever reason, it just doesn't roll
off the tongue.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
For me in this anyone in this order, in this order.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I don't know why the other players associations because I
feel like you just tack it on at the end,
like the NFLPA, but the WNBPA, I can't my little
brain can't wrap my head around it.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
That's fine. My little brain can't wraps itself around most things.
So here we are.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Anyway, here we are.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So prior to this season, beginning in May, as you mentioned, Steff,
there was a lot of optimism I would say surrounding
the negotiations. I'd say maybe cautious optimism is what I
would say. People were knowing that they were going to
be talking about it this year. It seems like the
league and the players were somewhat on the same page.
And I would say, at the end of the day,
(11:10):
the w is a league that does want what's best
for its players, like we saw that in the first CBA.
I think it was twenty twenty when we were initially
covering that stuff for twenty twenty one, and now we're
seeing we hope to see it now. But I'd say
after some of these finding words have come out, I
don't know if that's necessarily the case anymore. I don't
(11:31):
know if optimism would be the word that we could use.
The WNBA submitted its first proposal to the players union
or Association at the end of June, and the players
were not satisfied with the terms. The Phoenix Mercury sat
to Sibali and the New York Liberties Brianna Stewart both
commented on the ongoing negotiations last week. Sabali called the
(11:54):
proposal a quote slap in the face. Stewart then backed up,
saying that the players feel quote ignored and quote absolutely
frustrated by the WNBA's initial offer.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Negotiations are so hard.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
We've all been through it in our lives, whether it's
negotiating with your parents about chores, whether it's negotiating for
your own compensation at work, whether it's negotiating for what
color you get to use in class, well you're painting
you have to share with.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
A bunch of other people.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
We've all been in negotiations before, and I think there's
a lot of It's really hard when you anchor yourself
at the beginning because you know that there's going to
be more negotiation that comes, but that initial anchor. It's
either you have to balance that of being close enough
that someone actually wants to continue having conversations with you,
because if you're not close enough, people are like, what
(12:50):
are we doing this for?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
This feels like this is in bad.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Faith, Like me coming to my partner with a three
thousand dollars rug. You'd be like, we're absolutely not getting
a rug. But if I come toime with a nine
hundred dollar rug, he'd be like, Okay, let's look at
a new rug.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
He say, this sounds interesting, talk about exactly let's anchor
us in the right world, do you know what I mean?
And so I feel like that's kind of what they're
saying here. Is like the WNBA is saying, let's start
off with a nine hundred dollars rug, and the Players Association.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Is like, Nah, this needs to be a nine thousand
dollars rug.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
You know. So I that's what I think is happening.
They're not in the same orbit right now.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's so fascinating to me to have all of this
so public, like so many people go through negotiations like
you mentioned, behind closed doors. But we're all so emotionally
invested in this, like you said, because it does feel
like we are at the perfect moment for the players
to get what they want. And we have seen this
before with the Dallas Cowboys chew Laders because they had
(13:47):
the second season come out pretty recently of their Netflix
special and spoiler alert, but it's been all over the news.
They got a four hundred percent pay raise that they
announced at the end of the season, coming off of
the support that they gained from the first season. And
so I feel like this has to be the effect
that we're feeling now because it's such a monumental point
(14:08):
in the WNBA's history. And Stewie, like you mentioned, is
a monumental voice in the league itself. She's vice president
of the Players Association, so she's also very intimately involved
in this negotiation process. She's a major face of the league,
alongside fellow vice president and AFISA Collier and president Neko Gumoke.
(14:28):
And Stewie said, quote, anytime you go back and forth,
you're not expecting to hear that yes on the first proposal,
but you're expecting to have a conversation. They kind of
just ignored everything we said end quote. And that's definitely
not how you would want to feel after all of
this momentum that your league has just had in the
past year.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
That's also not the energy that the league is also
wanting to hear. They don't want to be hearing so
much contention because also when you're thinking about a group
of players that have historically been underpaid, you know, who
the fans are going to side with, you know, who
the media is going to side with, even though we
don't have all of the details and we don't have
(15:08):
all of the contexts, It's going to be the players.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And so I think that that is a.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Really interesting point that study is making that they ignored
everything we said, because then my mind goes to, Okay, what.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Are they valuing and what are they not lining up on.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Some of the things that we talked about Steph previously
in that previous episode was that the players Association is
seeking to include improved working conditions, bringing charter travel into
the mix officially, and then revamping the league's salary structure.
The union wants to transform the current salary system and
introduce an equity base model that would allow players to
(15:46):
directly reap the benefits of league growth. For example, NBA players,
and we've chatted about this on the pod before, receive
a fifty percent cut of all basketball related revenue, which
includes TV deals, ticket sales, merchandise in licensing. In comparison,
WNBA players currently only receive ten percent.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Of league revenue.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And I want to pause here and say the the
WNBA players have said before they're not looking for exactly what.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
The NBA players have.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They know that the WNBA is a scale up league
and they're getting to the place where they want it
to go. They know they're not like the NBA that's
been around for decades longer than the WNBA and has
had so much more support and had so much more
backing than what the WNBA has. That's not what they're
looking for. What they're looking for here basically is figuring
(16:39):
out a way where they are the product that is
driving so much revenue and that is driving so much
tune in that how can they be a part of
the upside potential? And I think what they're saying here
too with this equity based model stuff is that like
they they're the type of people and I would say
majority of female athletes, maybe not all female athletes, but
(17:00):
working with female athletes are literally the best because they
want what's best for the future as well. And so
if you give them more of that piece of revenue
or equity, now you know that they're going to work
their frickin' butts off to make this be the best
product in the entire world. And so I think that
that's really what they're looking for. Is like, hey, we've
(17:21):
been helping you, We've been grinding in this league for
so long.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
How can we be a part of the future.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Mm hmm. Yeah. And they are really hammering home that
they're looking for the same revenue sharing level, like that
is a constant thing that has been said for so
many years too. I feel from these players that they're
just looking for the same percentage that the NBA players
get and that seems like a very fair thing to
be really hammering home that I think the public will
(17:47):
really glom onto. We're so early, this is early in
the negotiation process, but it's becoming increasingly clear based on
these very public statements that the players are making, that
a deal is not happening very soon.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And I think what's tough to steph is again, and
this is probably me coming from the owner side of
a business, you don't exactly know what's happening on the
balance sheet, and so fifty percent of revenue for the
NBA that might make sense for the WNBA. Again, we're
just seeing that like monumental kind of hockey stick growth
(18:22):
over the last three years.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I think the WNBA might be.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Like, oh, I don't know if we can actually afford
fifty percent of top line revenue. It might be more
so like what we see Steff with the NWSL, where
it's based off of profit sharing instead of top line revenue.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Maybe that's something where there.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Can be a little bit more wiggle room or something
that they can come to agreement with each other because
of the stage that the league is at, so obviously
I hear the players here, but I also want to
put it into that context of where the W has been,
where the W's going, but also how it can continue
to afford to get and fully employ thousands of people
(19:02):
and also continue in this expansion. They also have to
take care of the financials and take care of the books,
and so maybe they can't do that fifty percent, but
there should be something, Like I do agree, there needs
to be some sort of better than ten percent, and
potentially something that actually aligns the players a little bit
more to the KPIs of the business.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I think something that's really interesting here is that eighty
percent of WNBA players will be free agents at the
end of this season. They've timed it. It seems like
the restructuring of their contracts to end in alignment with
the end of this currenc CBA. That's what it seems like,
and they've made it pretty clear from the get go
that a lockout or strike is absolutely on the table
if they're not happy with the WNBA's proposals. So I'm
(19:47):
very interested to see how those two facts are going
to line up with the negotiation process.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Oh my gosh, that is such a good point about
free agent stef I've totally forgot about that, Especially when
Stewie was negotiating with New York. I was like, wait,
why is this not going for longer? She could have
got such a guaranteed amount of income. I think step
two we have to talk about, like the WMA when
we were chatting last week, each of these new expansion
(20:14):
teams in Detroit, Cleveland, and Philly paid two hundred and
fifty million dollars. They signed a billion dollar with the
b Media rites deal. We're seeing the most sponsorship that
the league has ever brought in, and then we're also
seeing sponsorship at that team level. And so I think
that's where there's probably some frustration from the players, is like,
this is our moment. We can help poor Gas on
(20:36):
the fire. Let us help wore Gas on the fire
and we will do that if we can be a
part of that growth of said fire too, you know,
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
There's my catchphrase. I mean, we have a couple of months.
We will of course keep you updated, and I'm sure
the Business newsletter will also keep you updated. If you're
not subscribed to that. It's time for our personal training Sash.
This is where we're answer your hard hitting questions about anything,
(21:08):
and we mean anything in the sports world.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, So, as per usual, if you'd like to be
featured in a future episode, please call and leave us
a voicemail at one four three seven five six four
five five seven nine.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Right to the podcast by emailing.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Us at pod at thesports dot com, or message me
or Steph on Insta Ellen the Gist or at seph Rots.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Today's Ernie Rods. Oh yeah, Stephanie Rods.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh my god, if ste me, if anyone else knows
the seph ROTSI literally please give it to you, because
you're not Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I'm just simply not.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
No, You're just not a Stephanie girl. You've always been Seph.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Thank you. Yeah, and you know.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
What, No, actually I was gonna say you're Steph with
an F, but no, you're stuff with a pH, Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I tried to make stuff with an F work once
you remember that like great eight.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I was gonna say, I feel like that was a
grade seven G eight for you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I oh the way that I love your eras you had,
So I feel like I've been quite consistent.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I really you know what I mean, Like I haven't
been too many eras.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
You have literally had so many eras in your life
that you must look back and go, oh my god,
that's so entertaining, because I look back and I go,
oh my god, that's so entertaining.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
One of my former hockey teammates messaged me recently and said,
I have so many photos of you from this tournament
and from this period of our lives playing hockey together,
because you were like the only, like the main one
that would volunteer to get photographed. Because this is like
when I was like super into being emo for the camera.
And so she sent me one of the photos with
my side bangs across my face at a hockey tournament somewhere.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
The Emira Hockey Tournament is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I can just picture your bangs being so greasy and
your skin being so white. But you're under eyeliner being
so dark, like you used to just put that under
like eyeliner on gen Z.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It was a time we were using waterline. We were
doing that.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
We were doing that, Oh, we were using it, but
like in your Emo phase you were using it. Oh
my god, I talk about You're still so sweet the
whole time, like your personality has not changed, which it
just makes the eras even more funny because when you're
in your like sad girl emo era, your tough girl era,
it's still stuff in all of it. But the eras
(23:27):
just make me so excited, like it's just very funny.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm so happy to have You're such a passionate woman.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Anyway, So this is inspired by an Instagram post we
put up over the.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Weekend speaking of passion.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Speaking of passion. We'll link to it in the show notes.
I mean actually had some of our listeners like comment
make comments on that post, and so we are taking
those comments of like what the heck is happening here?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Can you explain it? And we're doing this on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Okay, I'm gonna set the scene for you as we're
we talked about the Euros, the woman's Euros are currently happening.
World number five England scored against They scored first in
their game against number ten France and the opening group
stage URO game on Saturday, that group of death that
we talked about previously, but the goal was called offside,
So England's first goal called offside. England too, are defending
(24:17):
tournament champions, went on to actually lose that game two
to one, which seriously harms our chances of advancing out
of the group stage. That group of death we were
talking about, and that's why this is what we're talking about.
We are talking about offside, and we were talking about
that offside in particular, as per the Instagram post.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yes, and you'll see that on the Instagram post, one
of the players was literally a sliver of a hair offside.
And that's kind of the nitty gritty that we're getting
into today. So zooming out a little bit, let's talk
about how offsides we're in soccer, because they are different
than offside in the NFL. They're very different than offside
(24:55):
and in hockey. And I know that this is Seth's
one of your biggest gripes about playing soccer.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, So I feel like I wish we were
in a visual format right now, because I feel like
I would do better at this. But essentially, in soccer,
the offside rule prevents players from gaining an unfair edge
by staying too close to the opponent's goal. So basically
someone cherry picking as close to the net as possible.
A player is offside if they're in the offensive half,
(25:23):
so not if they're in their own half, only if
they're in the offensive half and closer to the goal
than both the ball and the last defender. The last
defender means the last of the actual people on the field.
It doesn't mean the goalkeeper when the ball is passed
to them, and so that's the hardest part of offside
(25:44):
is you have to make sure that you are in
line with that last defender when your teammate is passing
you the ball. You can't have any basically advantage of
one step, even when that foot of your teammate touches
on that ball. So in the case of England's non goal,
the goal scorer Alesia Russo wasn't offside when she scored
(26:07):
the actual goal, but her teammate Beth Mead was offside
in the build up to the play. And I'm so
sorry for Instagram commenters. That is a fact offside works.
And as a player and as I played a lot
of positions, but I think one of my favorite positions
was striker. It used to drive me up the wall
(26:29):
that the person who didn't score could impact the offside
in such a way even if they did not touch
the ball.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That is the same rule in hockey in that case.
That is the same rule in most sports.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
In that case, the fact is there's another person trying
to gain an advantage that the defenders have to pay
attention to in comparison to like just you, who would
potentially be going for the ball.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
So that is in fact a rule.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
The thing that gets me with this particular example in
that Instagram post is how close yes it is because
to me, I get as a defender. So I just
want to lay my qualifications on the line. I respect
the point the integrity of this rule because I hate
cherry pickers. I hate people who PLoP themselves all the
(27:18):
way at the back. When we were young babies and
we didn't have the offside rule yet, because you don't
play with it when you first start out, because it's
just too much for you'll baby.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
You do no, no, no, no, yeah, no, no, well
not on the small field, but once once you're on
a full sized field, you're.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Not talking baby when you start playing, so oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
When you're only a small no, there's no offside on
small fields.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yes, okay, thank you. So I understand that it is required,
and I do appreciate as a defender that exists. In
this particular example, she is so close that it requires
this extreme zoom in VAR turning them into a little
robot situation to be able to call it. And to me,
(27:58):
that is against the point of shouldn't it just be
more about like the does it really have to come
down to the hair of it all? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
So when Steph is talking about VAR, that's a video
assistant referee and it's this software to make the call,
and it is a mainstay in international soccer and it's
becoming a mainstay in a lot of domestic leagues. Two.
And it's basically able to detective of players offside literally
down to a size of a fingernail. That is how
(28:26):
good this technology is. To your point, Steph, I do
think it is a little bit ridiculous. If it was
people that goal would have one hundred and ten percent counted,
England and France would have walked away with a draw
and Group D would be looking very different and England's
chances in this tournament and advancing out of that group
(28:49):
would be really different, and it's exceptionally important that England
does well, I think for soccer in general, for global soccer,
for them being the defending champions. I don't think to
your point stuff that Bethmean's arm was impacting the play.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
But at the same time.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Those are the rules and var is used for everyone,
So if this was someone on France, they would also
be offside and the and the goal would be called
the same way. So I think that they're just trying
to figure out the best way for fairness because there
has just been so much human error in soccer with
off side.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, and I'm not rooting for England over France, or
France over England or anything like that. I'm just looking
at like the like you said, if that was just
left to the human eye, there's no way that would
have been caught offside, And to me, that's that is
ruining the original intention of the rule and making it
so nitpicky that it brings off like brings down the
(29:47):
overall vibe. But I'm pulling up the Instagram posts because
I want to make sure you and I are on
the same page.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
No, no, no, we're on the same page.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
No way.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
But the blue player that's France, right, England's in the
back and the white yeah okay, because I also think
that there was confusion online with who was who because
again they removed their faces, right le bla.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah, le bla.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So it's hard though, right so, because you're like, yeah,
us by the Naked eye, but us by the Naked
Eye have made so many poor offside calls and exceptionally
important tournaments like the Euros, like FIFA, that it's gone
the other way where it's like, oh my god, I
wish that we had vaar.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
But that's why I did this. I did an article
a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I forget what's what company it was for, but they
literally called me and we talked about var and soccer
and how it was such a thing that is really
debated about in the soccer community and should we use
it should we not? Because then you're like a var
stuff in tennis. I'm watching Wimbledon. I'm obsessed that it
can go right down to that grain of grass and
(30:47):
see if that tennis ball was on the line or
not on the line.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
And that brings me so much joy.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
But that is a sport to me where it literally
millimeters do actually matter if a ball is n row
versus does millimeters.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Matter in soccer?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Maybe not. Maybe the thing is here stuff like maybe
maybe it has to be a foot that's impacting the
play and not an arm. Maybe it has to be
a certain body type. Maybe there has to be not
body type that's a body part, or maybe it has
to be like, okay, they have to be at least
four inches for it to actually be consider I don't know,
(31:26):
but something like that, putting some parameters around it.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, because soccer seems like such more fluid of a game.
Tennis is boom boom, back and forth, and it's very
much so a sport that vr makes sense to me,
whereas in this point, as you're running and you're you know,
looking at your players and you're passing it, it seems
a little bit more fluid. To penalize to the millimeter
(31:50):
or however close this was just seems a little bit
punitive and takes away the flow of the game.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
In my technology, man, you love it when it works.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
For you, and you hate it when it doesn't work
for you. And I think in this case, a lot
of people are feeling very similar to you. Stuff of
give us a break, Like, are we for real right now?
That should have been a goal. We don't think that
that arm changed the play at all, and I would
tend to agree.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Hm hmm. Interesting. Okay, Well with that that mark Sandra
Today's episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. If
you ever have thoughts and feelings like those, please write
in call in d MS.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Please.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
We will be back in your feed with the new
podcast on Thursday. In the meantime, if you enjoyed this episode,
you know the Drill rate, review and subscribe so that
more people can find this podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
This episode was edited by Savannah Halt and produced by
Alessandra Puccio and Lauren Tuscala. Again, I'm Steph Rots.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
And I'm Ellen Hisslap and we will chat with you Thursday.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Pabl
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