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July 31, 2025 32 mins
Pickle while you work.

ICYMI, pickleball is the fastest growing sport in the U.S., with superstar athletes like Tom Brady and LeBron James investing in pro leagues to capitalize on the trend sweeping the nation. But the real star of the court? Anna Leigh Waters, the world’s best pickleballer, who currently holds the Professional Pickleball Association’s No. 1 ranking in women’s singles, doubles, and mixed doubles. She’s kind of a big dill deal.

On today’s episode of The GIST of It, co-host Ellen Hyslop sits down with Waters to discuss the sport’s monumental rise, plus what it was really like playing alongside American tennis legend Andre Agassi. Don’t miss a minute. 

Show notes:
The Group Chat: She feels the need…
Episode #480: Explained: Trump’s college sports executive order

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Happy Tiny Friday.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Sports fans, welcome or welcome back to another episode of
The Gist of It.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Today is Thursday, July thirty. First, we're your co hosts.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Ellen Hyslop and I'm Steph Rots And this month
has been an absolute tree. I don't know about you, Steph,
but it's felt like a long month, and it's felt
like a long month that I'm okay with because it
has been gore Gina. And today's podcast is also an
absolute tree. We have a really fun audible, a really
great personal training sessions to follow up to our last podcast,

(00:38):
but also we had a really fun interview this week.
We chatted with Anna Lee Waters, the world's best pickleball
player who is just eighteen years old and currently ranked
number one in singles, doubles and mixed doubles by the
Professional Pickleball Association, and she and her team reached out

(00:58):
to come on the Gist of It and we said, hell,
oh yeah, Annalie, let's go.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
WHOA in case you missed it, in case you lived
under a rock, which I did accuse my Grade twelve
English teacher of doing when he didn't know a Britney
spear song.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
I was like, what are you living under a rock?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Only like the layers of you as a preteen and
a teen are so deep. Only you and grade twelve
would say that get away with it and still probably
get a ninety five in that course.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Literally, only you.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Am I anytime?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
I hear that sang or read it, I'm like, I
can't believe I did that anyhow, what Britney care song
wasn't oh it would had just come out. I think
it was like piece of me. I'm dating myself here.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
Obviously. He was like, what is sucked?

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Get out?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm from under your rock? Oh my gosh, should I
tell you?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Actually?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Speaking of English teachers, I walked by one of our English.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Teachers the other day on the street of Toronto and
I'm joking yeah, And then I was going to stop
and I was late, obviously because I'm always just on time,
so I don't give myself any proper buffer to be
able to have conversations.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
But I saw miss Richardson on the street, so showed
out of that. I said, that's who I asked if.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
You looked under a rock? No, Miss Richardson, Oh mine
was mister her dad.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
But she doesn't live under a rock.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
She was looking really cool having a coffee in Toronto.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Wow, what a small world day. But I'll get back
on topic, I promise. So let's sorry talk about Let's
talk about living under the rock. Because if you were
living under a rock during the pandemic, or maybe you
were burning your head in the sand, you just wouldn't
have known about this. But pickleball is the fastest growing
sport in the US. This is not wild with high
profile athletes like Lebron James and Tom Brady investing in

(02:49):
pro pickleball organizations. I myself have a set in the
closet that I have yet to rip out, but I
might be inspired after today because Annalie just made her
red carpet debut at the SP's earlier this month. So
it's all about pickleball. She's a star on the rise.
The sports on the rise.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Just such a treat for today to kind of cap
off the month.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's so wild speaking to an eighteen year old too,
who's already been pro for six years. So we're gonna
get into it, and whether you're a pickleball fan or not,
I think you'll enjoy the discussion. We get into everything
from her playing career to what she thinks of the
business side of pickleball, to what we all can be
doing to take up pickleball, to also getting into the

(03:32):
tension between tennis and pickleball, which I found really fascinating
because those sports don't really love each other. And then
obviously I had to make it about myself and bring
up tearing my achilles.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
During pickleball too.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
So it's a well rounded conversation, So tune in and
like stick around for it because it is interesting in
my biased opinion.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Oh, I was defending pickleball recently to someone and I
honestly can't remember, and that's classic.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Be who it was. I brought you up.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
I said, no, no, no, it's a sport. It's a sport,
and it's not just perhaps the elderly that get injured.
Very athletic friend got injured playing that sport, an injury
prone friend.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know what other sport gives injuries to me, Steph's soccer.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
And that's what I want to call an audible about
today because just as in case you missed it, bend
it like Beckham is gearing up for a rebroot, and
we are so bricking excited about it. We covered it
in our Sports business newsletter. And what I find so
interesting about this stuff is that I feel like there's

(04:36):
a trend right now about bringing back the nineties in
early two thousands. We're seeing it in fashion, we're seeing
it in beauty, and now we're seeing it in movies.
And so we had Happy Gilmore, I think it was
this week or the week before, come out with a
Happy Gilmore two. We see Travis Kelsey, Kelsey Plum obviously
Adam Sandler in it again, and people are so excited

(04:57):
and so stoked about it. And then we have Bend
It like Becka, which grows seventy six million dollars in
two thousand and two coming back, And I don't know,
Seth the business person and me kind of looks at
this and is like gen Z and millennials love nostalgia,
and also looking at some of the ads right now

(05:17):
and the marketing right now, they are kind of all
throwback and a callback to what I would say our
glory days are. And so I'm I'm really excited by this.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Did you hear about the Hannah Montana tour?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
No so speaking?

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Okay, also freakier Friday.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
That's coming out.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yes week if you're Friday, Yes, yes, that's a reboot.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
If you will, I'm going to see that.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Apparently Miley Cyrus is going to do something along.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
The lines of Hannah Montana. Come on, it's all coming back, babes, I.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Where was that? Where's that rumor coming from?

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Let me google it, and I swear if it's a
concert and there are people who are below the age
of eighteen and they go, I'm going to be so
upset because I bet you it's going to be hard
to get tickets and I need to see her totally live.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Please, it's going to be so hard to get tickets.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
We saw a league of their own comeback in two
thousand and twenty two, I think it was, and so
I think what's.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
So cool Steff, though? Is that at least for me?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
And thinking back to when Bend It like Beckham came out,
that was two thousand and two. There was literally no
women's professional leagues at that time. The US women's national
team had just won that big nineteen ninety nine World
Cup in front of a then record setting crowd, and
soccer was really on the up, and I feel like

(06:36):
Bend It like Beckham, allowed our generation and different people
to look at soccer more broadly and be like, this
could be a sport for me. And there's no specific
sass or figures that indicate that Bend It, like Beckham,
was tied to the increase in female football fandom or

(06:56):
female football play, But in my mind, I feel like
it had to have contributed to women staying in soccer
longer or women beginning to play soccer more seriously.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
And the reboot is going to be timed with the
twenty twenty seven feet for Women's World Cup, so the
perfect time the business side, from the marketing side, perfect.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Okay, so I did look it up.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
So Miley Cyers in an interview said that it's about
to be the twentieth year anniversary in March, and she
wants to design something really really special for it because
it was the beginning of all of this. So she
didn't explicitly say tour or performance, but that is what
I extrapolated myself.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, so interesting. So it's really really cool to see
how this nostalgia thing is coming into sports. And then
what we should also say stuff is that I think
both you and I did you end up buying the
Spice Girls jersey.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
I did not, Okay, I ended up so here for.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Spice Girl jersey, and that to me is so it
was a limited edition jersey from Admiral in collaboration with
Spice Girls, and that to me was really nostalgic because
I grew up wearing Admiral for soccer, grew up listening
to the Spice Girls, and then obviously I think with
the Spice Girls being British, there's that immediate affiliation with

(08:08):
soccer too. So there's something in the water about nostalgia
right now, and we're thrilled about it.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
And we didn't even talk about the women's heros England winning.
Oh my gosh, wrap that up with a bow. There
goes with the bow. There we go, okydoaks, folks.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
It is now time for our interview with Anna Lee Waters,
as we mentioned, the world's best pickle ball player. Whether
you're a pickleball fanatic or pickle curious, or just enjoy
eating a good deal pickle, I really do think that
this conversation has something for everyone. I really enjoyed chatting
with Annie, So without further ado, let's allow her to

(08:51):
take it away.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Welcome to the gist of it.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Annalie Waters, We're so excited to have you here today.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Thank you. I'm so excited to be on the Podcas.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh my gosh, we were chatting before you came on
the podcast that I have a love hate relationship with pickleball,
given that.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
I tore my achilles playing pickleball.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
But I'm surrealed to be chatting with you because I
think that you can change maybe my perspective on the sport.
And I know that so many of our gisters have
been playing pickleball and watching pickleball and are big fans
of yours. And it really feels like it's this great
sport that's cultivating this incredible community, and it is a

(09:30):
relatively new phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
So I'm really curious for you, especially with how young
you are, how you found the sport and how you
got into pickleball.

Speaker 5 (09:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (09:39):
So actually, I first of all, I have a question.
When you tore your achilles, did you warm up properly
before before you went in place?

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yes, I did it because you know what, I've actually
tourn my other achilles too, and so I'm I was doing.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
But what warm ups would you recommend?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Would you do?

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Or really do.

Speaker 6 (09:58):
I usually start off with like a couple like two
laps around the court, and then I'll do some like
dynamic stretching and like some side shuffles like before I start.
But a lot of like pickleball players don't warm up
before they play, and then they wonder why they get
injured because they're like, oh, pickaball, like it's a fun thing,
let's just go out and play, and then they don't
warm up and then they're like, ah, you know, like, oh,
I just hurt myself. So that's why I was asking,

(10:20):
because a lot of times people say like, oh I
just didn't warm up like correctly, or they haven't played
a sport in like ten twenty years and they go
out for the first time, go one hundred percent, like
all out, and.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Then they end up hurting themselves.

Speaker 6 (10:32):
So you got to make sure to warm up before
you play pickaball.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
You heard it here first from from one of the
world's best. Everybody warm up. Those dynamic stretches are so important. So, yes,
how did you find the sport? Because you turn pro
when you were just twelve, So I'm so curious where
everything got started for you.

Speaker 6 (10:48):
It's actually kind of a crazy story pickaball, Like I
don't know if I found pickaball or like pickleball kind
of found me. So I live in South Florida and
we had a hurricane in twenty seventeen, Hurricane Urma, and
we evacuated my family and I evacuated to Pennsylvania where
my grandparents live, and my grandfather actually played so he
like had been playing pickleball for a little bit and
loved it, which stereotype, you know, your grandfather plays pickleball,

(11:11):
that type of thing. And I was playing tennis and
soccer at the time, and my mom had played college tennis,
so we were kind of that tennis player that was like,
oh my gosh, we're never gonna play pickleball, you know.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
You know. So when we went to Pennsylvania, he.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
Was trying to get us to play, and we were like, no,
we don't want to play. Like no, I thought, like
you hit pickles over the net. I was like no,
Like this is ridiculous. But then he finally got us
out on the court and the first time I hit
the ball, I was like in love with it, Like
I just fell in love. My mom and I actually
started on the same day, like same second.

Speaker 5 (11:42):
We just loved the sport.

Speaker 6 (11:44):
So we played like every day for like like three
times a day every day for like two weeks, and
then we came home, I found a local pickleball club,
continued to play, and we were just hooked.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
We were just playing all the time.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Hooks from the beginning. And so I love that. I
love that your grandpa introduced you to the sport. And
it is a sport that I feel like all ages
can enjoy, which is why it's growing so fast. I
think it's still one of the fastest growing sports, especially
in the US. So you decided to turn pro and
you were really young. How did you handle that pressure?
I feel like the only other sport where you're turning

(12:21):
pro at that kind of young age or you're going
into serious competitions that I could really think of as
gymnastics or figure skating. What did that mean for you
turning pro at the age of twelve? What was it
like managing the pressure at such such a young age
turning pro.

Speaker 6 (12:36):
I just kind of feel like because the sport hadn't
exploded to what it is now, I kind of grew
with it. Like when I turned pro at twelve, it
was being streamed on like Facebook, and like we were
using temporary nets and like tape courts, so it didn't
like feel like such a big thing. But now looking back,
I'm like, man, a lot of the top players when
I was twelve.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
Play, you know, it's the same people now, So I
was competing against like the same type of competition. It
was just the exposure wasn't there.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
Like we weren't you know, playing on Fox or ESPN
or these major networks. So it didn't make me feel
as real, which I think was honestly good because a
twelve year old, you know, being in that spotlight might
not be the best way to grow up and have
that childhood. So I think it was good for me
that the sport kind of grew up as I did.
And like every year I'm like, oh my gosh, Like

(13:26):
I look at photos, I'm like.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
I was such a baby, you know, I was out
there as such.

Speaker 6 (13:30):
I'm only eighteen now, but like I was such a
baby at twelve, like out there playing and I've been
like a professional for so long now, Like it's crazy
everybody you know, usually like the young eighteen year olds
coming and playing like they lack experience.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
But like I'm like a veteran on the tour now
you know, I've been around.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
For like ever, which is so wild to think about
you being a veteran, and that tennis to pickleball pipeline
is so interesting too.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
We've seen the likes of Eugenie Bouchard also kind of
do that.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
But then there's also a lot of tension at feels like,
and you alluded to it a little bit between the
tennis world and the pickleball worlds.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
What's that been like and how have you navigated that?

Speaker 6 (14:09):
I honestly, even though at the beginning I had that,
you know, I was like, oh, I'm a tennis player
and I played, I feel like that's kind of what
happens is a lot of tennis players like don't try
the sports, so they have this vision of what it
is they haven't played yet, Like I once was, you know.
But I don't know if you saw, but Andre Agassy
and I played a tournament together and we were kind
of campaigning on the fact that like these sports can coexist,

(14:30):
Like you can play both, you can love both, like
you don't have to hate on the other one or
wish the other one would go away, you know, Like
we're racket sports or paddle sports. You know, we're all
like this one big community, and I think I'm definitely
trying to do that, and I think he is too,
just kind of bring people together because I feel like
right now the tennis World and pickaball World are kind
of like fighting against each other when that's not good

(14:52):
for either sport, you know, So I think just kind
of like support both sports. I love both sports, and
I think you know a lot of people would find
that they love both as well.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
It was really cool seeing that collaboration, and I think
that it was really smart for both of you to
be involved in that. How do you think Andre Agacy
can improve his pickleball game?

Speaker 5 (15:10):
He just needs to play more. He's just playing for
a little bit, but he hasn't like he's only been
taking it serious for a little bit. But I just
think he's having a lot of fun with it.

Speaker 6 (15:19):
And I'll enjoy playing with him and I'll give him
some tips, Like when we're on the.

Speaker 5 (15:23):
Pickleball gurl, I'll like give him a tip about pickleball
and then he'll give me like a life lesson or something.
But we like trade back and forth.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Very equal things.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
He's got some he's got some years on you to
be able to share some wisdom. It's really interesting thinking
about the business side of pickleball too.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Annelie, you made your red carpet debut at the sb's.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
You were the first person to really represent pickleball at
the event.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Which is so cool.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
And then we've also seen people like Lebron James and
Tom Brady invest in pro pickleball teams. Where do you
see pickleball going next, and how are you kind of
thinking about the business behind pickleball.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
My mom says, I didn't go to I'm eighteen. I
didn't go to college.

Speaker 6 (16:08):
My mom says, like I've gotten basically like better than
a college education just being involved with pickleball.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
It's all the contracts.

Speaker 6 (16:14):
And business seeds and all the stuff that goes on
behind the scenes that like people don't realize because I'm
playing this sport, obviously, there's a lot of other stuff
that goes on, you know, like behind the scenes.

Speaker 5 (16:24):
So going to the sb's was like.

Speaker 6 (16:25):
An amazing experience just walking beside all these like Simon
Biles and like all these amazing athletes. It's just like,
oh wow, it was really amazing. But as far as
we're pickleball is going to go.

Speaker 5 (16:36):
I honestly, a lot of people ask you this question.

Speaker 6 (16:39):
I say, like, sky's the limit, Like, I honestly didn't
think pickleball would get to where it is now, and
it's just like exploded.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
In other countries. It's starting to grow. We're starting to
have two hundred juniors at pickleball events now, so it's
starting to grow in the younger generation. Now, we obviously
need more growth in those areas. Like it's growing, but
we just need more, which I think is kind of
the next step.

Speaker 6 (17:02):
I'm also hoping that maybe we'll get into the Olympics
in the future.

Speaker 5 (17:08):
That would be pretty cool.

Speaker 6 (17:09):
Selfishly, I would love to do that and play pick
a ball for the US. And I think we've gotten
some major sponsors that have come into the sport and
we're seeing more of that, so I think that's kind
of growing. And we're on like I said, like Box
and ESPN, but not regularly, so I think maybe that regularity.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
Will start to happen in the sport.

Speaker 6 (17:28):
But yeah, like sky's the limit, like you said, all
these like celebrities pro athletes are investing in it. So
when you have all these like highly influential people who
love the sport and want to see it grow.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
Only good things can happen.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
It feels like there's a lot of opportunity with the
infrastructure too, of how kids are getting involved and as
their coaches and as their proper leagues, and what does
that look like as opposed to people, you know, picking
up a paddle and finding a tennis court and redrawing
the lines. I'm curious too, So golfing, I feel like,
is an example of a sport where you can play
when you're twelve years old all the way till you're

(18:04):
seventy five years old. Do you see pickleball being a
sport like that where Annalie, we could see you and
you're in your forties or in your fifties still being
a professional in pickleball, or how do you kind of
see the sport in comparison to some of those other
sports that do allow for a longer career.

Speaker 6 (18:23):
Yeah, my dad actually played golf in college, so I'm
very cool, okay with golf.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Yeah, and I definitely think it is. I actually one
of the first tournaments I.

Speaker 6 (18:30):
Played, I was like eleven, playing with my seven year
old grandfather, So that was a really cool experience. So
I definitely think pickleball is a sport that you can
play at any age, which is one reason why it's
so popular right now.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
And I just think, honestly, that's one reason why I
don't know. I feel like golf is a sport that
like people can.

Speaker 6 (18:51):
Appreciate by watching it, and I feel like pickleball the
same thing. Like some people say, oh, well, pickaball is
not that entertained to watch, but if you play pickle while,
you understand kind of how hard it is in the
shot selection all that stuff, which is why I feel
like you can play professionally when you're older, because it's

(19:12):
a lot of strategy and it's a lot of thinking
and finesse and that that type of style.

Speaker 5 (19:18):
But then also pickaball is getting so athletic.

Speaker 6 (19:20):
Right now that it's kind of like I'm like, I
don't know, Like right now, we have a couple pros
who are in their early forties or mid forties who
are like competing in like top twenty, But I just
don't know if that's like sustainable when more and more
like really.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
Athletic people get into the sport.

Speaker 6 (19:35):
Because the sport changes every year, it gets faster, it
gets more athletic, and I just feel like like in
the future that's going to be a lot tougher to do.
So I would say, I don't think forties and fifties
you're gonna be seeing me playing professionally, But like, I
definitely think that like mid thirties is like very achievable
in pickaball. Maybe not singles, but definitely doubles.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Definitely in doubles. I have a final question for you.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
We've chatted about pickleball on the just before and debunking myths,
and what is one major misconception that you have or
that you've heard about pickleball that you would love to
squash right now?

Speaker 1 (20:15):
On the gist of it.

Speaker 5 (20:16):
Definitely that pickleball is not a sport.

Speaker 6 (20:19):
I have seen so many things on social media where
everybody's like, pickleball is not a sport. Is definitely a sport.
Go try it, go play it. You will see that
it's a sport. If you get hey, if you can
tear your achilles playing pickaball, it's a sport, right, I
think so?

Speaker 4 (20:34):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
It's been so cool getting to see pickleball grow, but
also having the opportunity to watch some of your matches,
and I think that it's really unique to have an
eighteen year old woman being a spokesperson for a sport
on the whole that's continuing to grow.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
I don't think we've really seen.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
That in the past, and it's something that's really refreshing
and we really appreciate it so much. So thank you
for everything that you're doing for the sport and for
female athletes in the sport too.

Speaker 5 (21:03):
Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you guys giving
me a platform to speak.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
On Oh my god, I'm also going to be thinking
about pickles now, So thanks for that. But I was
so great to have eighteen year old Annelie Waters on

(21:29):
the pod.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Whis so awesome. I feel like I learned so much.
And I also it makes me just think about how
impressive some eighteen year olds are and how not impressive
I was at eighteen. But everyone peaks at different stages.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
People. Yeah, and look at you now, girl.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Chatting a week with my grade four best best sports.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Hoping people listen to us anyway, moving, let's.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Talk about our personal training SESSH for this week. This
question that was submitted was so interesting for those of
you who are new to the session. This is really
where we answer all of our just's hard hitting questions
about anything in the sports world. We also really encourage
hot takes, commentary, anything that you want to share with us.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yeah, because we always have a hot take a bruin,
but we really want to hear what.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
You guys have to say. Oh way, so please do that.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
If you'd like to be featured on a future episode,
you can call leave us a voicemail call one four
three seven five six four five five seven nine that
numbers in the show notes. If you want to just
hover over at click call us right now, or you
can email us at pod atthejus sports dot com. And
my personal favorite is when you DM myself or Ellen

(22:47):
or group chat us on Instagram. Ellen's handle is at
Ellen at the Gist and I'm at Stephanie Rott's unfortunately
can't get steph Rots because there's something more exciting than
feeling like I'm getting our sport friends and having people
talk about sports with so please I love that option.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, it's so fun, but I also love hearing everyone's
beautiful voices.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
You really can't lose every time.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, it's a win win win.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
So in today's personal training session, we were taking a
follow up question from our last episode and this fired
me up.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I love a follow up question. So an episode for.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Eighty which was explained Trump's college sports executive order, we've
linked that in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Claire wrote to me on Instagram and said.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Hi, Ellen, I've been listening to the Gist and wanted
to send a question after listening to today's podcast about
the USA's president, he who must not be named.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Executive order.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
My question is, and here's the question everybody, I know
there have been some commentators talking about maybe needing contracts
for NCAA athletes due to transfer, portal concerns and long
term team planning. Any thoughts on college athletes and contracts.
Thanks and love the podcast, Claire.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
We love you.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Thank you so much for listening, thank you so much
for messaging us, and thank you so much for this question.
When it came in, I went, thank goodness you gave
us a day to respond to this because we really
need to think about it.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh girl, Yeah, God, it's a doozy.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Okay, they can't have it both ways. The NCAA cannot
be standing firm on their amateurism stance and then also
want or encourage or have a discussion surrounding having players
sign a contract like they're an employee and they have
to commit to the school for the duration of their

(24:38):
schooling and they can't enter the transfer portal.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
No. No, I think that this is personally ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Tell us why you really feel.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
I think two four context, Their contracts are kind of
a loaded term and a loaded word, and they can
mean different things in different ways. And I would say
seph arguably, athletes right now as they're leaving high school
and entering college or while they're in the transfer portal,
they are signing contracts in one way or another because

(25:10):
of letters of intent. When they were saying that they're
committing to schools, they're signing they had those big celebrations,
you could see all that sort of stuff. Those contracts
were not tied to any money, and we're just a
way to make their commitment essentially known. Those letters of intent,
those stuff. And I think why this conversation is coming
back up, and probably why Claar is seeing some commentators

(25:33):
talk about the potential for contracts is because the letters
of intent were eliminated by the NCAA in twenty twenty
four ahead of this settlement that shook up the college
sports landscape. And so I think people are now like, wait,
what is going on? Because now, as we mentioned in
the last podcast, people can pay athletes as part of

(25:56):
revenue sharing, but then athletes can also sign contracts with
different endorsers with different brands for name, image and likeness deals.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
And so.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
This signing contracts isn't necessarily new, but signing contracts essentially
as an employee to make money, that's what's different, because
that is where it's kind of considered employment contracts.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
And I think that's what you're getting at.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, I reacted purely on emotion, and then you brought
the ration rations.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
We're evening, we're eating each other a lot.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
But I think I think what's tough, Steph, is that like,
there's contracts being brought up, but I don't think the
NCAA wants any of these athletes to become employees.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Okay, Yeah, that's what I was getting twisted with is
because I was like, you can't have it both ways,
you know what I mean? And of course there's a
lot of gray area in all of this, and we
just gotta love the gray we gotta learn to live
in it. But it's just a bit frustrating hearing that
kind of rhetoric being tossed around while we're also talking
about trying to take some of the choice in athlete

(27:00):
empowerment that has taken so long to get here away
from these athletes.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
You know, I would say, though, Steph, if there are
going to be contracts, then I think that's where the
employees aka the athletes would be allowed to potentially have
a collective bargaining agreement. So I think that's where there's
this confusion of Okay, if they're signing a contract or
intent and if there is money being distributed, if they
do end up signing those contracts, or if the NCUBA

(27:26):
requires those contracts, then can the athletes come back and say, no, sweat,
I'll sign this contract. But then that means that we
need to be entering a collective bargaining agreement. Or if
the ncaa A is saying we don't need these contracts,
then where's the protection for the athletes at the same time,
because right now they're not necessarily having the protection either way.

(27:51):
So I think that's I don't know, Claire, if we are.
I think we're making this, honestly so convoluted. But when
you're coming back to this contracts due to transfer portal
concerns and long term team planning, my thought on that
is less on the employment side stuff that we might
be getting to. I think my thought on that is
the transfer portal has made the wild wild West because

(28:13):
players can change year to year now as opposed to
having to wait out a year, and so it is really, really,
really hard for schools to be able to maintain continuity
year over year. It was a little bit of an
issue beforehand, but really not much, especially in like basketball
doesn't really matter with the one and done kind of

(28:35):
On the men's side, football it was a big deal,
And so I think that what's I think in the
coaches would love to find a way to lock in
players for two to three years one hundred and ten percent,
and I think it's probably in the best interest for
so many of these players. Not in every single case,
but there is something with like choosing a team and

(28:58):
sticking with it and having consistency in your education and
putting that first, which I think there is a value
in Juno Ariyama has talked about that, and so I
think that's where this like long term planning. And also
I think the hard part is for these schools when
they're thinking about these boosters and how they're going to
make money if they don't know if a star player

(29:20):
has their letter of intent for that first year stuff,
but then they are one of the top football players
and then they say, oh, just kidding, now I'm going
to go to Clemson. Then all of those boosters and
people who donated money to the school are like, oh
my god, we couldn't even keep our star player. Why
am I then donating to the school, and it becomes
this like really horrible cycle. So that's where I think

(29:42):
the contracts are, Like, could could athletes actually sign something
for a couple of years if it was related to
the money, and then there'd be consistency in college sports?

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, I would have to be mutually beneficial because otherwise
the schools, in my opinion, are responsible for wanting these
athletes to stay. The coach has to be a good coach,
so the con has to want to play for them.
It has to be a positive environment, has to be
a good education like there's In my opinion, the school
has so much they can do to provide that athlete
with a reason to stay and not to transfer, So

(30:13):
it does have to be there would have to be
money involved, if the directly paying the student from the school,
in my opinion, if a contract was to be involved,
because the school already has the responsibility to provide that
athlete with a good experience to keep them to stay.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Mike drop Claire.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
That was such a good question and we did not
answer it, but thank you for letting us try.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
We don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It will be very interesting and it will be keeping
everyone abreast on that. And thank you to our producers
for like pushing us in the right direction on this remotely,
I think. With that, that marks the end of today's episode.
Thank y'all so much for tuning in.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
We had a blast.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
We'll be back in your feed with a new podcast
on Tuesday.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
In the meantime.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
If you enjoyed today's episode and you want to be
a part of the next episode, please rate, review, subscribe,
leave us a voicemail, email, and or message on Instagram.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
This episode was edited by Savannah Held and produced by
Lisa min Nachullo and Alisander Puccio Again

Speaker 3 (31:08):
I'm Ail and Hisslap and I'm Steph Rotts, and we'll
be back in your feed on Tuesday
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