October 2, 2025 • 35 mins
The exit interview heard ’round the world.
ICYMI, Minnesota Lynx star Napheesa Collier lambasted WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert and the league office on Tuesday. On today’s episode of The GIST of It, co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Steph Rotz place Collier’s explosive comments into the league’s larger context, connecting the dots to the ongoing CBA negotiations, the WNBA’s sustainability, and of course, Unrivaled. Questions? Answered.
Thanks to FanDuel for their support of this podcast. A long-time supporter of women’s sports, FanDuel’s best-in-class WNBA bets let you put some skin in the game. Head to FanDuel.ca or download the app to join in on the fun.
A big shoutout to LPGA for sponsoring The GIST of It. To celebrate 75 years of golf greatness, the LPGA is hooking up one lucky fan with an epic VIP Experience to the CME Group Tour Championship in Naples, Florida from November 20th to 23rd. Enter here for your chance to win big.
Show notes:
Enter this contest for a free trip the CME Group Tour Championship
Place your WNBA bet with FanDuel Canada
More on The GIST:
☎️ Leave us a voicemail! Call us at 1-437-564-5579 or hold down on this link
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
ICYMI, Minnesota Lynx star Napheesa Collier lambasted WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert and the league office on Tuesday. On today’s episode of The GIST of It, co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Steph Rotz place Collier’s explosive comments into the league’s larger context, connecting the dots to the ongoing CBA negotiations, the WNBA’s sustainability, and of course, Unrivaled. Questions? Answered.
Thanks to FanDuel for their support of this podcast. A long-time supporter of women’s sports, FanDuel’s best-in-class WNBA bets let you put some skin in the game. Head to FanDuel.ca or download the app to join in on the fun.
A big shoutout to LPGA for sponsoring The GIST of It. To celebrate 75 years of golf greatness, the LPGA is hooking up one lucky fan with an epic VIP Experience to the CME Group Tour Championship in Naples, Florida from November 20th to 23rd. Enter here for your chance to win big.
Show notes:
Enter this contest for a free trip the CME Group Tour Championship
Place your WNBA bet with FanDuel Canada
More on The GIST:
☎️ Leave us a voicemail! Call us at 1-437-564-5579 or hold down on this link
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
What's up, y'all? You know what you're listening to? It's
another episode of the Gist of It. Today's Thursday, October second,
the day before Taylor Swiss album comes out. We're your
co hosts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm Ellen Hisslip and I'm Stiff Rott and I totally forgot.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
The life of a show girl? Baby? Do you have
any hotakees heading into the album drop?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm trying not to think too much about it, if
I'm being.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Clearly, because you just totally forgot that it was coming out.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I just don't want to get I don't want to
get a let astray. I was talking about this with somebody,
was it you?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
No? It wasn't me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
About how with the Midnight's branding, I thought we were
going to get like Steven x five Oh and then
it wasn't that at all. So I'm trying not to
interpret the visuals too much just in case it leads
me straight. But Travis has assured me it's gonna be banger,
so I'm just gonna.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Go with that. I don't know if we can trust
Travis Kelcey right now, he's playing like shit. He's yelling
at his coach. I don't know what's happening to him. Yes,
he's not having a good start to the year, and
I don't think we could expect the same Travis Kelcey
as years past. But anyway, we're getting we're getting sidetracked.
The other thing too, stuff Taylor Swift's album, of course,
but also Cardi B is coming up with a new
(01:25):
album and her marketing has been so good. We talked
about it on our content team call on Monday, and
she is just on fire right now, and that's part
of the reason why she was on the call her
Daddy podcast. Okay, yeah, and Stefan Diggs, who's an NFL player,
is the future father of her new baby.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So what are your predictions for the albums?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm scared why you're scared, because I think that Taylor's
albums are always better when she's a hater, and right
now she's in her love era. And I can't say
that I loved Lover. Were like certain components of Lover
that I liked, but I wasn't a lover of Lover. Okay,
Like I love reputation, I love a hater.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well we famously what does that mean. I sent you
recently that was born to be a hater, forced to
lock in or something or force.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Sleebra's born to be haters, forced us to see both
sides and all you know, I dropped people really fast,
So I like, I totally got it. And speaking of
dropping people and speaking of I feel like that is
a transition into what we need to talk about today,
because this isn't a music podcast, this is actually a
sports podcast, and we need to talk about everything that's
(02:40):
happening in the WNBA right now. Yes, it's the w
NBA Finals starting on Friday, but also yes, in case
you missed it, Minnesota link Star and a FISA Collier
ripped into WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert in the league office
on Tuesday in her postseason X interview. She was dropping bars.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I was so shocked by what she said and just
like really really taken aback, not saying I don't agree
with her, but to the point where I've fallen for
so many AI videos lately. I even I even't forwarded
one to the content team, was like, this is a
great idea for a podcast, and they all said this
never happened stuff, and so I really took a step
(03:21):
back and was like, what if this isn't real, because
she really didn't hold back at all. And I'm so
glad that we're talking about it because she shared eyebrow
raising comments made by Engelbert in previous conversations that have
caught the attention of of course, not only the league's
players in the league's fans, but.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
The basketball world at large, sports world at large.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's shocking what has been said.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yes, and I do have to shout out our newsletter
team and our social team who moved so quick on
this news and who shared it, shared what Kathy said,
Share what Ifisa Collier said. We're going to get into
all of that in a second. There's a lot of
larger context here, a lot of dots to be connected.
There's a lot of things involved with respect to the
CBA negotiations and Unrivaled and the WNBA sustainability, and so
(04:10):
today we kind of want to get past that initial
shock of holy moly, we can't believe she said that,
and we are going to get into what she said
to give some context, but also the zooming out of
why does this matter? Is Kathy Engelberg going to continue
to be the commissioner of the WNBA? What does this mean?
For the future of the league and all of that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Basically, when I forced my boyfriend to sit through on
the couch today, I pulled up the video of her
speech and said, this, Okay, here's the context as to
who Callier is and what's going on the WNBA. We're
going to put it in a podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yes, that's exactly what we're doing stuff. And so I'm
so glad that you're prepped.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And I said, sorry, Collier. If I say Collier, honestly,
I'm sorry, folks, It's just my French brain, like my
French Canadian brain. I'm not French Canadian.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
But I was going to say, you and I both
took up to tenth grade French. We didn't take any
French pre on that.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I dropped grain twelve fronts.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh did you?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh I need a math.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So call here. One hundred percent know that is how
our names pronounced. But if it ever slips out, it's
totally not intentional, and I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, but first I want to call an audible, and
I want to call an audible to talk about the
WNBA finals. And normally we would be talking about the
WNBA Finals in earnest right now, but there's all of
that big news happening, which kind of frustrates me that
we can't just focus on the finals, but also we
have to do our due diligence to the situation. And
this segment is brought to you by our friends at
(05:38):
FanDuel In case you missed it, FanDuel has been a
longtime supporter of women's sports. They've been a longtime supporter
of the GIST and that's why we partnered with them
to build our second annual Women's Pro Basketball Challenge. And
so it just makes sense that today's Call an Audible
is all about women's hoops.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Mm hmm, like Ellen said, and we will talk about
it in this space. But as you know, the WNBA
Finals tip off tom Morrow. If you're listening to the podcast,
the day comes out being Thursday. So on Friday, the
WNBA Finals start with the Las Vegas Aces taking on
the Phoenix Mercury, and this year it's going to be
a seven game series, the first of its length in
(06:18):
the WNBA. So it is just it is of finals
for the history bots.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yes, I agree, My bracket is so busted. My Women's
Pro Basketball bracket that was brought to you by FanDuel.
I did pick Vegas on that side of the bracket,
but I think I had Minnesota on the other side
of the bracket, and I certainly did not have New
York Liberty dropping out in that burst round. So what
(06:45):
I really like those stuff is as much as my
bracket is busted. FanDuel has so many opportunities to bet
on the WNBA Finals. When you look at their website
or when you download their app, there's popular bets, quick
quick bets, play points, players threes, player rebounds, and so
you can get in on all of this by betting
(07:05):
on the WNBA Finals, which I think is just so
much fun. And I don't know about you, but I
whenever I bet I watch, I'm more likely to watch
the games and more likely to be engaged.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That makes sense, It's very logical.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, So who do you think is gonna win the final? Stuff?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think because I was with you and I didn't
have the Mercury coming out of that side of the bracket,
I think I'm gonna have to go with Las Vegas Aces.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Okay, I knew that you were gonna say that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I feel like you're just such an Asia Wilson stand
too that could you not? Yeah, see, I have to
go with the Phoenix Mercury because they have been the
underdog that shouldn't have been the underdog this entire time.
The fact that they the fact that Alyssa Thomas is
so underrated is I think the main reason why they
(07:56):
are headed to the show. The way that the they
bring the energy when we look at Khalia Copper, when
we look at Sattoo sobbly like it is. I don't know.
I just think that Phoenix is sometimes a tough market
and I feel like we haven't been able to pay
enough attention to them, especially being on the East Coast,
and so I think they're gonna take it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, underdog mentality, you can't discount that.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, I really like them in this one. So, whether
you're rolling with the Phoenix Mercury or the Las Vegas Aces,
who do have home court advantage, there's still time to
lock in your Finals futures picks on FanDuel dot Com
or on the FanDuel app. With only two teams left,
you're still looking at a fifty to fifty shot at
a win. So are you Team Phoenix with me or
Team Vegas with seph.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
If you're feeling a little cheekier, there's a whole host
of other wagers that Ellen mentioned that you can place
during the Championship series, So whether it's at score tomorrow's
first bucket or which super star will take home Finals
MVP at the end of the series. There are also
other options and ways to get involved on FanDuel.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You can head to FanDuel dot com or download the
app to join in on the fun and may the
buckets always be in your favor.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
A big thank you to our friends at the LPGA
for sponsoring today's episode. Before we jump ahead to our
one big story, I want you to picture this sun
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Speaker 1 (10:17):
All right, there's truly no time to waste. We've got
a lot to get into in today's podcast, so let's
dive into what Nafisa Collier, the star for the Minnesota Links,
the co founder of the unrivaltry On three League, and
her statement on leadership in the WNBA. She said a lot, Steph,
there was basically a two page prepared statement, and you know,
(10:38):
we love a prepared statement. When someone brings out notes,
we know that they are well researched, well read, well prepared,
and all the power to them. There are some major
topics we're going to dive into today, which are the
ongoing CBA negotiations, officiating in the league, Kathy Engelbert's future
in the league. But I've kind of pulled out steph
(10:59):
like five key things that Nafisa. Collier said that I
feel like we do need to repeat to kind of
paint the picture before getting into all of that. So
maybe we can share those a little bit here before
we get into it.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, she said, so to go to that first point
that the real threat to the WNBA isn't money, isn't ratings,
or it's not missed calls or even physical play. It's
the lack of accountability from the league office. So a
lot of her statement really was centered in on the
leadership of the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, she said, year after year, the only thing that
remains consistent is the lack of accountability from our leaders.
The league has a buzzword that they ruled out as
a talking point for the CBA as to why they
can't pay the players what we're worth, and that word
is sustainability. We'll get into that a little bit later,
but it's essentially profitability and long term sustainability for the league.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And at unrivaled. This past February reminder, her and Stewie
Branda Stewart are the founders of that league. Collier said that
she sat across from Kathy and asked how she planned
to address the officiating issues in our league. Her response
to that was, well, only the losers complain about the refs.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Which, firsthand, we've seen a lot of winners complain about
refs their entire lives as well, So that felt a
little bit shortsighted. Collier also said in that similar conversation
with Kathy that she had asked how she planned to
fix the fact that players and rookies like Kaitlyn Clark,
Angel Reese, and Pagebeckers, who are clearly driving massive revenue
(12:34):
of viewership for the league, are making so little in
their first four years. A reminder of rookie contract is
generally around seventy five thousand dollars. Her response was, quote,
Caitlyn should be grateful she makes sixty million off the court,
because without the platform the WNBA gives her, she wouldn't
make anything.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I just needed to pause to sit with that for
a second. In that same conversation, she all so so.
Kathy also told Collier that players should be on their
knees thanking their lucky stars for the media Right deal
that I got them, and it.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Was a record breaking media Right deal. It was a
great deal. But to phrase it like that, Yes, and
I think it was two hundred and forty five. It
was a really big deal. When this was happening, I
knew that you were going off the edge stuff because
your Instagram stories were just recosting everything that you could see.
(13:29):
You were in the mix, and everyone was wondering. Once
that exit interview happened with Afisa Collier, who was injured,
we talked about this in our last podcast, how Kathy
and then how the league would respond. So a couple
hours later, Engelbert responded with a statement of her own.
It came right into all of the media's inbox, and
(13:49):
she basically explained that she was disheartened by what she heard.
She said, quote, I have the utmost respect for Nafisa
Collier and for all the players in the WNBA. Together,
we have all work tirelessly to transform this league. My
focus remains on ensuring a bright future for the players
and the WNBA, including collaborating on how we continue to
elevate the game. I am disheartened by how Nafisa characterized
(14:12):
our conversation and league leadership, but even when our perspectives differ,
my commitment to the players and to this work will
never waiver end quote. We'll get into it a little
bit later on Kathy's future and how long she has
been with the WNBA two. I do think that it's
worth noting that she was a part of the negotiations
of the last CBA, which was touted as a great
(14:35):
win on both sides, So want to give that context
as well. This is Engelbert's not her first CBA that
she's negotiating.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Those are the main takeaways from Collier's statement that we
really needed to start off with. So now we're going
to go into a couple of things. We're going to
go into the big picture stuff, so the CBA negotiations
that are happening right now, the officiating, and we're also
going to talk about why Collier was the woman to
make this statement and the overall response from the league.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, so let's start off with the CBA negotiations because
I feel like those are the hottest topic right now
with that October thirty first deadline looming. I do think
they're going to push out the deadline, like they're not
going to say, Okay, we're going on strike if we
don't meet this October thirty first deadline. But it hasn't
changed yet.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, because the league won't start off again until yeah, exactly,
So it's really tense. As you can probably guess why
the statements that are being made publicly, it's very tense.
Collier shared that Engelbert had previously said how players should
be grateful for the platform the league provides, and that's
of course to start contrast to the way that the
Players Association approaches the conversation and approaches their need for
(15:45):
representative pay, and the WNBA players are looking for an
increase in revenue sharing. That is that the crux here
of the CBA negotiation. Right now, players receive ten percent
of the league's revenue, which is a very very small
percentage when you compare it to the NBA, who sees
fifty percent of the league's revenue.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So, yeah, steph, there's that part in the CBA negotiations
that they're getting into. Another piece of the CBA negotiation
stuff was, Yes, the main part is the WNBA players
having a chance to make money off of the upside.
Right now, they're not making enough money off of the upside,
and as a result, they feel like there's not enough
skin in the game for them, and so they're feeling
(16:29):
less motivated to be part of promoting and growing the
league in the same way that NBA players, for example,
are really tied into that league revenue or in the
way that all unrivaled athletes get some equity, right, And
so that's the one piece. The other piece that they're
talking about is the actual based contract and how much
money these athletes are getting paid. I do just want
(16:51):
to zoom in for this part on Caitlin Clark and
the rookie contracts that someone like her or Angel Reese
because came in at the same time, would be on
and mostly because this is in reference to what Engelbert said.
As we mentioned, Kaitlyn Clark's rookie salary from the WNBA
was seventy six thousand, five hundred and thirty five dollars.
(17:13):
She's on a four year rookie deal and so the
money that she does make does increase annually. The total
value of her contract is three hundred and thirty eight
thousand over those four years, but this averages out to
just under eighty five thousand a year. And this is
for arguably the most popular women's basketball player on the
(17:34):
planet right now is making eighty five thousand dollars. That
is a very very very very small percentage compared to
the millions that she is making off court. I also
want to flag that the majority of the revenue that
Kaitlyn Clark is making is not necessarily because of the WNBA.
It's also because of college troops and the NCAA and
(17:57):
her building her brand since high school and being one
of the best in the world since high school. And
so what I get really frustrated about in this statement,
in particular stuff where it's like we should be lucky
forgetting these media things. She should be lucky that she
is the platform like the WNBA. To me, that's some
internalized misogyny bullshit. Would we ever say that Lebron James
(18:21):
is lucky to be playing basketball? Because when we zoom
out on that, she's literally saying that women are lucky
to play sports, And that really really rubbed me the
wrong way.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's absurd. Yeah, it is not leadership to speak like
that about your employees, regardless of whether or not this
is sport or just any other workplace, To be like,
you're just lucky to have a job here to one
of your star employees. What kind of mindset is.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
That, especially when your employees in this case are your products.
They are the reason why people are tuning in and
across any organization, people are your best assets. And so
I was truly so shocked, and I don't think I
would have ever thought that something like that would come
out of a commissioner's mouth, and from my recollection of
(19:10):
my young brain and sometimes I miss things, I don't
think we've ever heard a commissioner say these types of
things with that kind of lack of respect honestly for
who she's working with. And I would say, like, yeah,
they're her employees, but they're also her peers, Like you
know what I mean. It's it's very different being a commissioner.
(19:30):
So that in all of this CBA negotiation too, if
someone on one side is coming in saying you're so lucky,
and then someone on the other side is like, are
you kidding me? I'm so lucky because I get to
play basketball, Like yeah, but this is this is messed up.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And two with Collie you're talking about this, she really
exemplifies the fact that the WNBA and the Player's Association
in these negotiations are looking out for everybody. Yes, they're
not just trying to pret status quo in terms of
how these contracts have always been made. And I think
this shows to the media who's really I think tried
(20:08):
to paint the peach picture that the league is against
Caitlin Clark, like the players don't like her, blah blah blah.
I feel like that this shows you no, no, no,
everyone can recognize the absurdity of what's going on in
this particular moment, and from a labor relations perspective, Collier
really is just chef's kiss standing on business.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, let's we were going to talk about the officiating
for a minute and the WNBA sustainability, but as we're
talking about Collier, let's just talk about why she feels
like so perfect for this moment and qualified to speak
on these issues. As we mentioned, she co founded the
three on three league unrivaled, and so I do think
it's only their second year for sure, but she is
(20:47):
someone who understands the business side of running a league
and also has just raised millions and tens of millions
of dollars at an incredible valuation just the second year in,
and so I think that that just really sets her
up as someone who is so well respected within the
league and outside of the league to speak on this.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, and she is of course really respected among her peers.
She finished second in the WNBA MVP voting, right behind
Asia Wilson this year, and and nobody is raising a
red flag when it comes to her reputation. Everyone is
wholeheartedly behind her. She's one of the most important players
in the WNBA from an on court perspective but also
(21:28):
off court perspective.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And she deserves more endorsement money. We talked about this,
We talked about Asia Wilson too in the newsletter. I
was like, what the heck. And she's also one of
three vice presidents in the Players Association, so I feel
like that is important.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So another huge piece to that resume. Totally, She's coming
at this from all angles really yeah, yeahh.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
No, she gets it. And I think that she's also
just like, we shouldn't be speaking to each other like this.
If you are thinking of the game this way, that's
not the right way, or people this way, that's that's
not the right way to come into this conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And she mentioned that too, the human element of leadership
and the human element of sports and how that is
also tied to sustainability of a league is feeling like
the leadership respects you and has your back.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, So speaking about respect, let's talk about officiating, because
officiating doesn't have a lot of respect right now, and
maybe that's okay. So Collier discussed the WNA's sustainability in
her statement, we shared it, but she kind of talks
about it in a different way than Engelbert has. Engelbert
has always used sustainability as the league's long term viability,
(22:34):
and so long term viability basically meaning like they don't
need the backing of the NBA, they don't necessarily need
the backing of investors in order to just run their league.
And part of the reason in the way that they're
setting that up is that that's been her rationale for
potentially not paying the players more or not increasing their
(22:56):
revenue share because there is a push for profitability and
like all of that from a business model perspective is fine.
And part of the reason why Kathy Engelbert, coming from Deloitte,
was brought into the WNBA. There was a lot of
things in twenty nineteen when Kathy was brought in the
WNBA ecosystem and the women's sports ecosystem was wildly different
(23:19):
than where we're at in twenty twenty five, and so
I think that the sustainability conversation needs to be more
focused on that growth conversation. And we have seen a
lot of growth from all of the expansion teams. But
I think that's where sometimes the players are frustrated, is like, Okay,
we're thinking about this long term sustainability, but we're bringing
in all these big brand dollars, all these expansion teams,
(23:41):
all of these media rights deals, but I can't get
any of the upside of that even a little bit.
More So, that's how Engelbert has always thought about sustainability,
and Colliers like, Okay, let's think about sustainability in terms
of the products being the best that it can.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Be and when it comes to officiating to how that's
closely linked. Yeah, and that's closely linked to the product
and being able to see the stars and the players
that you want to see play when you show up
to the game.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah. And so of course we talked about Cheryl Reeve
and what happened and different opinions there, but really Collier
was saying here the lack of urgency to address the
refereeing issue is self sabotage, saying that the league office
accountability in the league, saying that we don't need to
really fix the rest is going to impede on how
(24:28):
great the product is and how safe the players are
feeling to continue to play in the WNA. M hm,
So let's talk about what's next. There is so much here,
so only time will tell exactly what the future looks
like and if Angelbert will be a part of it.
(24:48):
Sports Business Journal they're so great, they do awesome reporting.
They indicated that Angelbert is likely out as commissioner, but
after these CBA negotiations are done, so it seems like
she would still go through it. I don't see how
the league would be able to bring in a new
commissioner in the middle of this, So who knows. They
did hear this before inn FISA Collier's comments, so this
(25:12):
might have already been in the works.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
But THENBA has responded saying that the assertion from Sports
Business Journal is categorically false. So there has been a
response from the league on that reporting, and that reporting
is coming from pressure inside NBA or rather Engelbert coming
out and this being talked about prior to these comments
(25:36):
from Collier is coming from pressure inside NBA and WNBA circles.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
There's a lot going on here for context too. The
commissioner rule, it is a very hard rule. Shit has
gone down before and people still say in the jobs.
Gary Bettman has been the NHO commissioner for thirty one
years I think it is now, and he's retiring after
this year. Gary Bettman might be one of the most
hated people in hockey circles. He comes every time he's
(26:04):
at the Stailey Cup and he is passing Lord Stanley
to the captain of the team who wins, he gets booed.
Now it's a little bit of a bit, but for
a while it didn't start as a bit. People really
did not like Gary Bettman because of the strike in
the NHL and what he kind of put the leak through.
But he's been there for a very long time. Adam
(26:25):
Silver's been with the NBA for a very long time,
and so six years would be a short tenure for
a commissioner of a pro league.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I am just so, I have no idea. If she
sticks around, it's gonna be like the biggest comeback of
full time in my opinion, because how do you go from?
Where do you go from? Here?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
A round of golf collaps to the LPGA for supporting
today's episode. And I'm going to say no, a round
of proper claps to the LPGA for supporting today's episode.
We don't need any of demure golf collaps. Honestly, step
I have not stopped the game about the LPGA giving
away a VIP experience to the CME Group Tour Championship.
You know, I want to be there so bad. If
(27:08):
you are a women's golf fan like me learning to
become a women's golf fan, if you play golf, I
promise you this is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity.
For this giveaway, We're talking flights, hotel, exclusive Globe lounge access,
and a five hundred dollars gift card to treat yourself
at the LPGA Pro Shop. They're hosting this contest to
(27:31):
give away to one lucky person to celebrate seventy five
years of greatness for the LPGA. And you only have
until October twenty fourth to enter, which the procrastinator in
me is like, no problem, that's a lot of time. Literally,
pick up your phone, go to our show notes head
to the link and do it now. Put your name
in the hat, and maybe next month you'll be living
(27:53):
that VIP life. One more time. Go to the show
notes right now, click on it, put your name in
the hat, and you'll be entered to win.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
It's time for our personal training Sash, the last thing
of the podcast, and.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's really really focused on the training there training.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Typically in the training Sash, we answer your questions, but
we actually kind of have a question for you today.
We're really flipping the script because we just a perfect
day to flip the script, because I just feel like
the script has been flipped in women's basketball.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I feel like so motivated. I actually I love how
Giggs you are just by this entire thing. It's just
so bad ass what she did. Yeah, and it's just
so smacking what was said, Like she said, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So calmly, so well, I'm just honestly, she is the word.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
She is the moon. I did love the moment in
the press or too sorry, we're supposed to be and
we're circling. I did love the moment in the exit
interview though, where Collier took him in it to breathe
and then say, oh my gosh, my heart is going,
you know what I mean, and then got back into it.
That was really relatable content. I don't know, well, you
weren't watching as much Ryder Cup as I was. I
(29:14):
was watching the Ryder Cup and Justin Thomas had a
whoop on and during certain times when he was putting,
like making a big putt or whatever, they would track
his heart rate and sometimes his heart rate was through
the roof stuff. It was actually wild. So it's kind
of cool to see the wearable tech showing us what
the heart rate was like at the Ryder Cup. And
(29:36):
I was like, in that moment, say that again, what's
a whoop? H?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Is that like an R ring?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It's a generally people wear it on their wrists. Sometimes
people wear it on their ribs or something like that
wherever there's a pressure point, and it basically gives you
a much more intense reading on yourself than honestly any
other wearable technology. So they're big sponsor of the PGA.
(30:05):
I know a lot of pro players who wear them.
So you might see a lot of people like wearing
their smart watch and then wearing a band, like a
random black band on their wrist. That's a whoop. A
lot of runners will use a whoop on their ribcage
and whatever in their sports bra. You might like it
whoop anyway, whoop sponsor us, But anyway, I want I
(30:26):
wish that there was a whoop on a FISA call
here during that exit interview to just be like, what
was her heart rate at for that? Because I can
only imagine the courage my stomach would be out, my ass, Oh.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
The nervous poops I would have had, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I can even imagine. Anyway, So we're flipping the script.
So normally we ask you to call us email us
d MS DA da da da DA, but we we
need your help and so we are asking you questions
because on October ninth, which quick math is next Thursday,
our five hundredth episode is coming out and that is
(31:04):
a major milestone. I can't believe we've been doing this
together for five hundred episodes.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Bestie, bestie for the rest eye.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
So we want to know, like, what do you guys
want us to talk about on this five hundred episode.
It's kind of like when you have to tell your
partner what you want for your birthday or your parents
what you want for your birthday and they just go
get that gift that you want. That's what we're asking,
tell us what you want for your birthday. We are
thinking like perhaps some sort of giveaway to everyone our
(31:34):
most supportive gisters. We're thinking we reveal the top five
most listen to episodes. Ever, We're thinking we take a
trip down memory lane for our favorite pod moments. We
also are totally open to whatever ideas you all might
have for five hundred episodes? Steph, is there anything else?
Any other ideas you have?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Like, Yeah, what are your favorite moments or episodes of
the podcast? Do you want us to share those submissions
as opposed to our favorite episodes?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah? Yeah, what what is it?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
How would you like to celebrate our five hundredth Do
you have.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Five hundred questions for us to five hundred comments for us? Like,
we just want to know what you want us to
talk about on that five hundredth episode because we can
still continue to talk about sports where we could do
something totally fun and do a giveaway and something party.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Do you want us to listen our top five hundred
moments in sport?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh my god, imagine we'd be here for days.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I thought five hundred products.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Our top five hundred products. I love it so anyway,
let us know what your favorite moments or episodes of
the podcast are. You can call us at one four
three seven five six four five five seven nine. We
would love to hear your voices. We would love to
hear five hundred voices for our podcast. You can email
us at pod at just sports dot com or message
stephan I on Instagram. I'm Ellen ethanjis stephis Stephanie Rotts.
(32:51):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I'm so excited to hear from you all. And with that,
it's the end of today's episode. Thank you so much
for tuning in and be part of this wild ride
that was the episode.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, we'll be back in your feed with a new
podcast on Tuesday, hopefully just as chaotic. In the meantime,
if you enjoyed this episode, we'd love for you to rate, review,
and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
This episode was edited by Savannah Held and produced by
Lisa Minnutillo, Alessandra Puccio, and Lauren Tuscilla. Again, I'm steph
Rots
Speaker 1 (33:21):
And I'm Ellen Hislap and we will chat with you
again on Tuesday.
What's up, y'all? You know what you're listening to? It's
another episode of the Gist of It. Today's Thursday, October second,
the day before Taylor Swiss album comes out. We're your
co hosts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm Ellen Hisslip and I'm Stiff Rott and I totally forgot.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
The life of a show girl? Baby? Do you have
any hotakees heading into the album drop?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm trying not to think too much about it, if
I'm being.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Clearly, because you just totally forgot that it was coming out.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I just don't want to get I don't want to
get a let astray. I was talking about this with somebody,
was it you?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
No? It wasn't me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
About how with the Midnight's branding, I thought we were
going to get like Steven x five Oh and then
it wasn't that at all. So I'm trying not to
interpret the visuals too much just in case it leads
me straight. But Travis has assured me it's gonna be banger,
so I'm just gonna.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Go with that. I don't know if we can trust
Travis Kelcey right now, he's playing like shit. He's yelling
at his coach. I don't know what's happening to him. Yes,
he's not having a good start to the year, and
I don't think we could expect the same Travis Kelcey
as years past. But anyway, we're getting we're getting sidetracked.
The other thing too, stuff Taylor Swift's album, of course,
but also Cardi B is coming up with a new
(01:25):
album and her marketing has been so good. We talked
about it on our content team call on Monday, and
she is just on fire right now, and that's part
of the reason why she was on the call her
Daddy podcast. Okay, yeah, and Stefan Diggs, who's an NFL player,
is the future father of her new baby.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So what are your predictions for the albums?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm scared why you're scared, because I think that Taylor's
albums are always better when she's a hater, and right
now she's in her love era. And I can't say
that I loved Lover. Were like certain components of Lover
that I liked, but I wasn't a lover of Lover. Okay,
Like I love reputation, I love a hater.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well we famously what does that mean. I sent you
recently that was born to be a hater, forced to
lock in or something or force.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Sleebra's born to be haters, forced us to see both
sides and all you know, I dropped people really fast,
So I like, I totally got it. And speaking of
dropping people and speaking of I feel like that is
a transition into what we need to talk about today,
because this isn't a music podcast, this is actually a
sports podcast, and we need to talk about everything that's
(02:40):
happening in the WNBA right now. Yes, it's the w
NBA Finals starting on Friday, but also yes, in case
you missed it, Minnesota link Star and a FISA Collier
ripped into WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert in the league office
on Tuesday in her postseason X interview. She was dropping bars.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I was so shocked by what she said and just
like really really taken aback, not saying I don't agree
with her, but to the point where I've fallen for
so many AI videos lately. I even I even't forwarded
one to the content team, was like, this is a
great idea for a podcast, and they all said this
never happened stuff, and so I really took a step
(03:21):
back and was like, what if this isn't real, because
she really didn't hold back at all. And I'm so
glad that we're talking about it because she shared eyebrow
raising comments made by Engelbert in previous conversations that have
caught the attention of of course, not only the league's
players in the league's fans, but.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
The basketball world at large, sports world at large.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's shocking what has been said.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yes, and I do have to shout out our newsletter
team and our social team who moved so quick on
this news and who shared it, shared what Kathy said,
Share what Ifisa Collier said. We're going to get into
all of that in a second. There's a lot of
larger context here, a lot of dots to be connected.
There's a lot of things involved with respect to the
CBA negotiations and Unrivaled and the WNBA sustainability, and so
(04:10):
today we kind of want to get past that initial
shock of holy moly, we can't believe she said that,
and we are going to get into what she said
to give some context, but also the zooming out of
why does this matter? Is Kathy Engelberg going to continue
to be the commissioner of the WNBA? What does this mean?
For the future of the league and all of that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Basically, when I forced my boyfriend to sit through on
the couch today, I pulled up the video of her
speech and said, this, Okay, here's the context as to
who Callier is and what's going on the WNBA. We're
going to put it in a podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yes, that's exactly what we're doing stuff. And so I'm
so glad that you're prepped.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And I said, sorry, Collier. If I say Collier, honestly,
I'm sorry, folks, It's just my French brain, like my
French Canadian brain. I'm not French Canadian.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
But I was going to say, you and I both
took up to tenth grade French. We didn't take any
French pre on that.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I dropped grain twelve fronts.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh did you?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh I need a math.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So call here. One hundred percent know that is how
our names pronounced. But if it ever slips out, it's
totally not intentional, and I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, but first I want to call an audible, and
I want to call an audible to talk about the
WNBA finals. And normally we would be talking about the
WNBA Finals in earnest right now, but there's all of
that big news happening, which kind of frustrates me that
we can't just focus on the finals, but also we
have to do our due diligence to the situation. And
this segment is brought to you by our friends at
(05:38):
FanDuel In case you missed it, FanDuel has been a
longtime supporter of women's sports. They've been a longtime supporter
of the GIST and that's why we partnered with them
to build our second annual Women's Pro Basketball Challenge. And
so it just makes sense that today's Call an Audible
is all about women's hoops.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Mm hmm, like Ellen said, and we will talk about
it in this space. But as you know, the WNBA
Finals tip off tom Morrow. If you're listening to the podcast,
the day comes out being Thursday. So on Friday, the
WNBA Finals start with the Las Vegas Aces taking on
the Phoenix Mercury, and this year it's going to be
a seven game series, the first of its length in
(06:18):
the WNBA. So it is just it is of finals
for the history bots.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yes, I agree, My bracket is so busted. My Women's
Pro Basketball bracket that was brought to you by FanDuel.
I did pick Vegas on that side of the bracket,
but I think I had Minnesota on the other side
of the bracket, and I certainly did not have New
York Liberty dropping out in that burst round. So what
(06:45):
I really like those stuff is as much as my
bracket is busted. FanDuel has so many opportunities to bet
on the WNBA Finals. When you look at their website
or when you download their app, there's popular bets, quick
quick bets, play points, players threes, player rebounds, and so
you can get in on all of this by betting
(07:05):
on the WNBA Finals, which I think is just so
much fun. And I don't know about you, but I
whenever I bet I watch, I'm more likely to watch
the games and more likely to be engaged.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That makes sense, It's very logical.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, So who do you think is gonna win the final? Stuff?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think because I was with you and I didn't
have the Mercury coming out of that side of the bracket,
I think I'm gonna have to go with Las Vegas Aces.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Okay, I knew that you were gonna say that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I feel like you're just such an Asia Wilson stand
too that could you not? Yeah, see, I have to
go with the Phoenix Mercury because they have been the
underdog that shouldn't have been the underdog this entire time.
The fact that they the fact that Alyssa Thomas is
so underrated is I think the main reason why they
(07:56):
are headed to the show. The way that the they
bring the energy when we look at Khalia Copper, when
we look at Sattoo sobbly like it is. I don't know.
I just think that Phoenix is sometimes a tough market
and I feel like we haven't been able to pay
enough attention to them, especially being on the East Coast,
and so I think they're gonna take it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, underdog mentality, you can't discount that.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, I really like them in this one. So, whether
you're rolling with the Phoenix Mercury or the Las Vegas Aces,
who do have home court advantage, there's still time to
lock in your Finals futures picks on FanDuel dot Com
or on the FanDuel app. With only two teams left,
you're still looking at a fifty to fifty shot at
a win. So are you Team Phoenix with me or
Team Vegas with seph.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
If you're feeling a little cheekier, there's a whole host
of other wagers that Ellen mentioned that you can place
during the Championship series, So whether it's at score tomorrow's
first bucket or which super star will take home Finals
MVP at the end of the series. There are also
other options and ways to get involved on FanDuel.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You can head to FanDuel dot com or download the
app to join in on the fun and may the
buckets always be in your favor.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
A big thank you to our friends at the LPGA
for sponsoring today's episode. Before we jump ahead to our
one big story, I want you to picture this sun
hats golf collapse and you know sasheg past the crowd
like the VIP star that you are. Sounds like a dream, right,
and it doesn't have to be a dream. To celebrate
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(09:29):
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and a five hundred dollars LPGA Pro Shop gift card.
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enter before October twenty fourth using the link in the
show notes.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
All right, there's truly no time to waste. We've got
a lot to get into in today's podcast, so let's
dive into what Nafisa Collier, the star for the Minnesota Links,
the co founder of the unrivaltry On three League, and
her statement on leadership in the WNBA. She said a lot, Steph,
there was basically a two page prepared statement, and you know,
(10:38):
we love a prepared statement. When someone brings out notes,
we know that they are well researched, well read, well prepared,
and all the power to them. There are some major
topics we're going to dive into today, which are the
ongoing CBA negotiations, officiating in the league, Kathy Engelbert's future
in the league. But I've kind of pulled out steph
(10:59):
like five key things that Nafisa. Collier said that I
feel like we do need to repeat to kind of
paint the picture before getting into all of that. So
maybe we can share those a little bit here before
we get into it.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, she said, so to go to that first point
that the real threat to the WNBA isn't money, isn't ratings,
or it's not missed calls or even physical play. It's
the lack of accountability from the league office. So a
lot of her statement really was centered in on the
leadership of the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, she said, year after year, the only thing that
remains consistent is the lack of accountability from our leaders.
The league has a buzzword that they ruled out as
a talking point for the CBA as to why they
can't pay the players what we're worth, and that word
is sustainability. We'll get into that a little bit later,
but it's essentially profitability and long term sustainability for the league.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And at unrivaled. This past February reminder, her and Stewie
Branda Stewart are the founders of that league. Collier said that
she sat across from Kathy and asked how she planned
to address the officiating issues in our league. Her response
to that was, well, only the losers complain about the refs.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Which, firsthand, we've seen a lot of winners complain about
refs their entire lives as well, So that felt a
little bit shortsighted. Collier also said in that similar conversation
with Kathy that she had asked how she planned to
fix the fact that players and rookies like Kaitlyn Clark,
Angel Reese, and Pagebeckers, who are clearly driving massive revenue
(12:34):
of viewership for the league, are making so little in
their first four years. A reminder of rookie contract is
generally around seventy five thousand dollars. Her response was, quote,
Caitlyn should be grateful she makes sixty million off the court,
because without the platform the WNBA gives her, she wouldn't
make anything.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I just needed to pause to sit with that for
a second. In that same conversation, she all so so.
Kathy also told Collier that players should be on their
knees thanking their lucky stars for the media Right deal
that I got them, and it.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Was a record breaking media Right deal. It was a
great deal. But to phrase it like that, Yes, and
I think it was two hundred and forty five. It
was a really big deal. When this was happening, I
knew that you were going off the edge stuff because
your Instagram stories were just recosting everything that you could see.
(13:29):
You were in the mix, and everyone was wondering. Once
that exit interview happened with Afisa Collier, who was injured,
we talked about this in our last podcast, how Kathy
and then how the league would respond. So a couple
hours later, Engelbert responded with a statement of her own.
It came right into all of the media's inbox, and
(13:49):
she basically explained that she was disheartened by what she heard.
She said, quote, I have the utmost respect for Nafisa
Collier and for all the players in the WNBA. Together,
we have all work tirelessly to transform this league. My
focus remains on ensuring a bright future for the players
and the WNBA, including collaborating on how we continue to
elevate the game. I am disheartened by how Nafisa characterized
(14:12):
our conversation and league leadership, but even when our perspectives differ,
my commitment to the players and to this work will
never waiver end quote. We'll get into it a little
bit later on Kathy's future and how long she has
been with the WNBA two. I do think that it's
worth noting that she was a part of the negotiations
of the last CBA, which was touted as a great
(14:35):
win on both sides, So want to give that context
as well. This is Engelbert's not her first CBA that
she's negotiating.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Those are the main takeaways from Collier's statement that we
really needed to start off with. So now we're going
to go into a couple of things. We're going to
go into the big picture stuff, so the CBA negotiations
that are happening right now, the officiating, and we're also
going to talk about why Collier was the woman to
make this statement and the overall response from the league.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, so let's start off with the CBA negotiations because
I feel like those are the hottest topic right now
with that October thirty first deadline looming. I do think
they're going to push out the deadline, like they're not
going to say, Okay, we're going on strike if we
don't meet this October thirty first deadline. But it hasn't
changed yet.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, because the league won't start off again until yeah, exactly,
So it's really tense. As you can probably guess why
the statements that are being made publicly, it's very tense.
Collier shared that Engelbert had previously said how players should
be grateful for the platform the league provides, and that's
of course to start contrast to the way that the
Players Association approaches the conversation and approaches their need for
(15:45):
representative pay, and the WNBA players are looking for an
increase in revenue sharing. That is that the crux here
of the CBA negotiation. Right now, players receive ten percent
of the league's revenue, which is a very very small
percentage when you compare it to the NBA, who sees
fifty percent of the league's revenue.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So, yeah, steph, there's that part in the CBA negotiations
that they're getting into. Another piece of the CBA negotiation
stuff was, Yes, the main part is the WNBA players
having a chance to make money off of the upside.
Right now, they're not making enough money off of the upside,
and as a result, they feel like there's not enough
skin in the game for them, and so they're feeling
(16:29):
less motivated to be part of promoting and growing the
league in the same way that NBA players, for example,
are really tied into that league revenue or in the
way that all unrivaled athletes get some equity, right, And
so that's the one piece. The other piece that they're
talking about is the actual based contract and how much
money these athletes are getting paid. I do just want
(16:51):
to zoom in for this part on Caitlin Clark and
the rookie contracts that someone like her or Angel Reese
because came in at the same time, would be on
and mostly because this is in reference to what Engelbert said.
As we mentioned, Kaitlyn Clark's rookie salary from the WNBA
was seventy six thousand, five hundred and thirty five dollars.
(17:13):
She's on a four year rookie deal and so the
money that she does make does increase annually. The total
value of her contract is three hundred and thirty eight
thousand over those four years, but this averages out to
just under eighty five thousand a year. And this is
for arguably the most popular women's basketball player on the
(17:34):
planet right now is making eighty five thousand dollars. That
is a very very very very small percentage compared to
the millions that she is making off court. I also
want to flag that the majority of the revenue that
Kaitlyn Clark is making is not necessarily because of the WNBA.
It's also because of college troops and the NCAA and
(17:57):
her building her brand since high school and being one
of the best in the world since high school. And
so what I get really frustrated about in this statement,
in particular stuff where it's like we should be lucky
forgetting these media things. She should be lucky that she
is the platform like the WNBA. To me, that's some
internalized misogyny bullshit. Would we ever say that Lebron James
(18:21):
is lucky to be playing basketball? Because when we zoom
out on that, she's literally saying that women are lucky
to play sports, And that really really rubbed me the
wrong way.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's absurd. Yeah, it is not leadership to speak like
that about your employees, regardless of whether or not this
is sport or just any other workplace, To be like,
you're just lucky to have a job here to one
of your star employees. What kind of mindset is.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
That, especially when your employees in this case are your products.
They are the reason why people are tuning in and
across any organization, people are your best assets. And so
I was truly so shocked, and I don't think I
would have ever thought that something like that would come
out of a commissioner's mouth, and from my recollection of
(19:10):
my young brain and sometimes I miss things, I don't
think we've ever heard a commissioner say these types of
things with that kind of lack of respect honestly for
who she's working with. And I would say, like, yeah,
they're her employees, but they're also her peers, Like you
know what I mean. It's it's very different being a commissioner.
(19:30):
So that in all of this CBA negotiation too, if
someone on one side is coming in saying you're so lucky,
and then someone on the other side is like, are
you kidding me? I'm so lucky because I get to
play basketball, Like yeah, but this is this is messed up.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And two with Collie you're talking about this, she really
exemplifies the fact that the WNBA and the Player's Association
in these negotiations are looking out for everybody. Yes, they're
not just trying to pret status quo in terms of
how these contracts have always been made. And I think
this shows to the media who's really I think tried
(20:08):
to paint the peach picture that the league is against
Caitlin Clark, like the players don't like her, blah blah blah.
I feel like that this shows you no, no, no,
everyone can recognize the absurdity of what's going on in
this particular moment, and from a labor relations perspective, Collier
really is just chef's kiss standing on business.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, let's we were going to talk about the officiating
for a minute and the WNBA sustainability, but as we're
talking about Collier, let's just talk about why she feels
like so perfect for this moment and qualified to speak
on these issues. As we mentioned, she co founded the
three on three league unrivaled, and so I do think
it's only their second year for sure, but she is
(20:47):
someone who understands the business side of running a league
and also has just raised millions and tens of millions
of dollars at an incredible valuation just the second year in,
and so I think that that just really sets her
up as someone who is so well respected within the
league and outside of the league to speak on this.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, and she is of course really respected among her peers.
She finished second in the WNBA MVP voting, right behind
Asia Wilson this year, and and nobody is raising a
red flag when it comes to her reputation. Everyone is
wholeheartedly behind her. She's one of the most important players
in the WNBA from an on court perspective but also
(21:28):
off court perspective.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And she deserves more endorsement money. We talked about this,
We talked about Asia Wilson too in the newsletter. I
was like, what the heck. And she's also one of
three vice presidents in the Players Association, so I feel
like that is important.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So another huge piece to that resume. Totally, She's coming
at this from all angles really yeah, yeahh.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
No, she gets it. And I think that she's also
just like, we shouldn't be speaking to each other like this.
If you are thinking of the game this way, that's
not the right way, or people this way, that's that's
not the right way to come into this conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And she mentioned that too, the human element of leadership
and the human element of sports and how that is
also tied to sustainability of a league is feeling like
the leadership respects you and has your back.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, So speaking about respect, let's talk about officiating, because
officiating doesn't have a lot of respect right now, and
maybe that's okay. So Collier discussed the WNA's sustainability in
her statement, we shared it, but she kind of talks
about it in a different way than Engelbert has. Engelbert
has always used sustainability as the league's long term viability,
(22:34):
and so long term viability basically meaning like they don't
need the backing of the NBA, they don't necessarily need
the backing of investors in order to just run their league.
And part of the reason in the way that they're
setting that up is that that's been her rationale for
potentially not paying the players more or not increasing their
(22:56):
revenue share because there is a push for profitability and
like all of that from a business model perspective is fine.
And part of the reason why Kathy Engelbert, coming from Deloitte,
was brought into the WNBA. There was a lot of
things in twenty nineteen when Kathy was brought in the
WNBA ecosystem and the women's sports ecosystem was wildly different
(23:19):
than where we're at in twenty twenty five, and so
I think that the sustainability conversation needs to be more
focused on that growth conversation. And we have seen a
lot of growth from all of the expansion teams. But
I think that's where sometimes the players are frustrated, is like, Okay,
we're thinking about this long term sustainability, but we're bringing
in all these big brand dollars, all these expansion teams,
(23:41):
all of these media rights deals, but I can't get
any of the upside of that even a little bit.
More So, that's how Engelbert has always thought about sustainability,
and Colliers like, Okay, let's think about sustainability in terms
of the products being the best that it can.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Be and when it comes to officiating to how that's
closely linked. Yeah, and that's closely linked to the product
and being able to see the stars and the players
that you want to see play when you show up
to the game.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah. And so of course we talked about Cheryl Reeve
and what happened and different opinions there, but really Collier
was saying here the lack of urgency to address the
refereeing issue is self sabotage, saying that the league office
accountability in the league, saying that we don't need to
really fix the rest is going to impede on how
(24:28):
great the product is and how safe the players are
feeling to continue to play in the WNA. M hm,
So let's talk about what's next. There is so much here,
so only time will tell exactly what the future looks
like and if Angelbert will be a part of it.
(24:48):
Sports Business Journal they're so great, they do awesome reporting.
They indicated that Angelbert is likely out as commissioner, but
after these CBA negotiations are done, so it seems like
she would still go through it. I don't see how
the league would be able to bring in a new
commissioner in the middle of this, So who knows. They
did hear this before inn FISA Collier's comments, so this
(25:12):
might have already been in the works.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
But THENBA has responded saying that the assertion from Sports
Business Journal is categorically false. So there has been a
response from the league on that reporting, and that reporting
is coming from pressure inside NBA or rather Engelbert coming
out and this being talked about prior to these comments
(25:36):
from Collier is coming from pressure inside NBA and WNBA circles.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
There's a lot going on here for context too. The
commissioner rule, it is a very hard rule. Shit has
gone down before and people still say in the jobs.
Gary Bettman has been the NHO commissioner for thirty one
years I think it is now, and he's retiring after
this year. Gary Bettman might be one of the most
hated people in hockey circles. He comes every time he's
(26:04):
at the Stailey Cup and he is passing Lord Stanley
to the captain of the team who wins, he gets booed.
Now it's a little bit of a bit, but for
a while it didn't start as a bit. People really
did not like Gary Bettman because of the strike in
the NHL and what he kind of put the leak through.
But he's been there for a very long time. Adam
(26:25):
Silver's been with the NBA for a very long time,
and so six years would be a short tenure for
a commissioner of a pro league.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I am just so, I have no idea. If she
sticks around, it's gonna be like the biggest comeback of
full time in my opinion, because how do you go from?
Where do you go from? Here?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
A round of golf collaps to the LPGA for supporting
today's episode. And I'm going to say no, a round
of proper claps to the LPGA for supporting today's episode.
We don't need any of demure golf collaps. Honestly, step
I have not stopped the game about the LPGA giving
away a VIP experience to the CME Group Tour Championship.
You know, I want to be there so bad. If
(27:08):
you are a women's golf fan like me learning to
become a women's golf fan, if you play golf, I
promise you this is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity.
For this giveaway, We're talking flights, hotel, exclusive Globe lounge access,
and a five hundred dollars gift card to treat yourself
at the LPGA Pro Shop. They're hosting this contest to
(27:31):
give away to one lucky person to celebrate seventy five
years of greatness for the LPGA. And you only have
until October twenty fourth to enter, which the procrastinator in
me is like, no problem, that's a lot of time. Literally,
pick up your phone, go to our show notes head
to the link and do it now. Put your name
in the hat, and maybe next month you'll be living
(27:53):
that VIP life. One more time. Go to the show
notes right now, click on it, put your name in
the hat, and you'll be entered to win.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
It's time for our personal training Sash, the last thing
of the podcast, and.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's really really focused on the training there training.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Typically in the training Sash, we answer your questions, but
we actually kind of have a question for you today.
We're really flipping the script because we just a perfect
day to flip the script, because I just feel like
the script has been flipped in women's basketball.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I feel like so motivated. I actually I love how
Giggs you are just by this entire thing. It's just
so bad ass what she did. Yeah, and it's just
so smacking what was said, Like she said, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So calmly, so well, I'm just honestly, she is the word.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
She is the moon. I did love the moment in
the press or too sorry, we're supposed to be and
we're circling. I did love the moment in the exit
interview though, where Collier took him in it to breathe
and then say, oh my gosh, my heart is going,
you know what I mean, and then got back into it.
That was really relatable content. I don't know, well, you
weren't watching as much Ryder Cup as I was. I
(29:14):
was watching the Ryder Cup and Justin Thomas had a
whoop on and during certain times when he was putting,
like making a big putt or whatever, they would track
his heart rate and sometimes his heart rate was through
the roof stuff. It was actually wild. So it's kind
of cool to see the wearable tech showing us what
the heart rate was like at the Ryder Cup. And
(29:36):
I was like, in that moment, say that again, what's
a whoop? H?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Is that like an R ring?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It's a generally people wear it on their wrists. Sometimes
people wear it on their ribs or something like that
wherever there's a pressure point, and it basically gives you
a much more intense reading on yourself than honestly any
other wearable technology. So they're big sponsor of the PGA.
(30:05):
I know a lot of pro players who wear them.
So you might see a lot of people like wearing
their smart watch and then wearing a band, like a
random black band on their wrist. That's a whoop. A
lot of runners will use a whoop on their ribcage
and whatever in their sports bra. You might like it
whoop anyway, whoop sponsor us, But anyway, I want I
(30:26):
wish that there was a whoop on a FISA call
here during that exit interview to just be like, what
was her heart rate at for that? Because I can
only imagine the courage my stomach would be out, my ass, Oh.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
The nervous poops I would have had, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I can even imagine. Anyway, So we're flipping the script.
So normally we ask you to call us email us
d MS DA da da da DA, but we we
need your help and so we are asking you questions
because on October ninth, which quick math is next Thursday,
our five hundredth episode is coming out and that is
(31:04):
a major milestone. I can't believe we've been doing this
together for five hundred episodes.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Bestie, bestie for the rest eye.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
So we want to know, like, what do you guys
want us to talk about on this five hundred episode.
It's kind of like when you have to tell your
partner what you want for your birthday or your parents
what you want for your birthday and they just go
get that gift that you want. That's what we're asking,
tell us what you want for your birthday. We are
thinking like perhaps some sort of giveaway to everyone our
(31:34):
most supportive gisters. We're thinking we reveal the top five
most listen to episodes. Ever, We're thinking we take a
trip down memory lane for our favorite pod moments. We
also are totally open to whatever ideas you all might
have for five hundred episodes? Steph, is there anything else?
Any other ideas you have?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Like, Yeah, what are your favorite moments or episodes of
the podcast? Do you want us to share those submissions
as opposed to our favorite episodes?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah? Yeah, what what is it?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
How would you like to celebrate our five hundredth Do
you have.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Five hundred questions for us to five hundred comments for us? Like,
we just want to know what you want us to
talk about on that five hundredth episode because we can
still continue to talk about sports where we could do
something totally fun and do a giveaway and something party.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Do you want us to listen our top five hundred
moments in sport?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh my god, imagine we'd be here for days.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I thought five hundred products.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Our top five hundred products. I love it so anyway,
let us know what your favorite moments or episodes of
the podcast are. You can call us at one four
three seven five six four five five seven nine. We
would love to hear your voices. We would love to
hear five hundred voices for our podcast. You can email
us at pod at just sports dot com or message
stephan I on Instagram. I'm Ellen ethanjis stephis Stephanie Rotts.
(32:51):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I'm so excited to hear from you all. And with that,
it's the end of today's episode. Thank you so much
for tuning in and be part of this wild ride
that was the episode.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, we'll be back in your feed with a new
podcast on Tuesday, hopefully just as chaotic. In the meantime,
if you enjoyed this episode, we'd love for you to rate, review,
and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
This episode was edited by Savannah Held and produced by
Lisa Minnutillo, Alessandra Puccio, and Lauren Tuscilla. Again, I'm steph
Rots
Speaker 1 (33:21):
And I'm Ellen Hislap and we will chat with you
again on Tuesday.
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