December 15, 2025 • 39 mins
Batter up!
Welcome to our exciting new series, She’s Not Next She’s Now. We’ll dig into eight different new and emerging women’s sports, discussing the history of how we got here, the current state of the game, and what comes next. And it’s not just co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Lauren Tuiskula driving the conversation; we’ll also be chatting with the executives, players, and fans who make these leagues and sports what they are today.
For today’s episode, the diamond is ready to shine as we dive deep into the world of pro softball. We chatted with former Marlins General Manager and Athletes Unlimited Softball League Commissioner Kim Ng, AUSL Talons pitcher Montana Fouts, and friend of the GIST/former collegiate softball player Marga Sison.
Show notes:
More on The GIST:
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
Welcome to our exciting new series, She’s Not Next She’s Now. We’ll dig into eight different new and emerging women’s sports, discussing the history of how we got here, the current state of the game, and what comes next. And it’s not just co-hosts Ellen Hyslop and Lauren Tuiskula driving the conversation; we’ll also be chatting with the executives, players, and fans who make these leagues and sports what they are today.
For today’s episode, the diamond is ready to shine as we dive deep into the world of pro softball. We chatted with former Marlins General Manager and Athletes Unlimited Softball League Commissioner Kim Ng, AUSL Talons pitcher Montana Fouts, and friend of the GIST/former collegiate softball player Marga Sison.
Show notes:
More on The GIST:
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Happy Monday, besties.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We are back for episode four of our exciting new
podcast series, She's Not Next, She's Now. Where we are
breaking down the gist Wink wink, nudge, nudge on emerging
women's sports in the leagues developing around them.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We're your coast. I'm Ellen Hyslap.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm also the co host of The Gist of It
and one of the co founders of The Gist.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Lauren Tuscla, Theist Associate Managing editor. We're here.
We're at episode four. We're doing any way through halfway through.
That's crazy. We're bringing this eight part series and if
you've listened to the first few, you know each week
we're discussing a different new and emerging women's sport and
really diving deep into the leagues that compose that sport.
We're looking at the history, which we'll get into a
(00:52):
lot with today's episode. We're looking at the current state
of the game, and then we're kind of looking into
the crystal ball and discussing what we expect in the
coming years.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, and we say this every episode, but I think
it's worth a reminder. We are doing this because women's
sports are in such a special place right now, and
we're seeing so much change happen right before our eyes.
And all of this change is very normal in business,
it's very normal in sports. It's just we saw it
on the men's side probably forty to one hundred plus
(01:22):
years ago, and so now we're trying to make sense
of all of it on the women's sports side, and
we want to do so by bringing you this series.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, and it's not just us driving these conversations, so
Ellen and I kind of get into the details and
lay out what's happening in the scene, but we got
to talk to a lot of really great guests for
these conversations too, So episodes one, two, and three are
already in your feeds. The first episode was about the
Peter BHL. We had Olympians on the podcast. We had
Hillary Night, we had Sarah Nurs. It was such a
great episode. Episode two was all about the pro indoor
(01:53):
women's volleyball scene. We had more Olympians on that episode.
We had Jordan Thompson, Jordan Poulter, Jordan Lars and it
was really exciting digging into the kind of crowded women's
volleyball space and really breaking down what's happening, and then
episode three dropped last week. It was all about women's
soccer and really looking at the emerging leagues, the up
and comers. So we talked a little bit about the
consistent leagues and WSL, but we got into the real
(02:15):
emerging ones and who's kind of next in the space.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, and it's been so fun talking to all of
those players, but also having an opportunity to chat with
fans and executives and get their opinion on the space
because oftentimes what the players are seeing is very different
than what the business side is seeing or what the
fans are seeing.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Definitely, it's been cool to put all these different voices
in conversation. Yeah. For today's podcast, last week was Ellen's
favorite sport. This week is my favorite sport. We're talking
about softball. I'm so excited to do this episode with
you Elle. It's a game that's seen really great attendance
and viewership numbers at the college level. So for as
long as I can remember, college softball was pretty successful,
(02:56):
but its struggled to make that conversion to the professional level,
and I think that's changed really recently with the launch
of Athletes Unlimited Softball League, which is the league we'll
be focusing on mostly for today's episode. So we're going
to unpack that pro history and get into kind of
some of the problems that softball has experience, and then
look at the AUSL and how it's changing the game.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm so excited to learn from you in this episode, Laura.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
When we were working on the production notes of the podcast,
I literally barely lifted a finger.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think most of what I did for today's episode
was ask a lot of questions.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You have so much institutional knowledge in this space. I
think from the U side all the way up to
the pro side, and I think from my outside lens.
It's been very interesting, I think getting to compare softball
and AUSL almost to women's hockey and the PWHL in
a way, so all the way back to episode one.
(03:49):
And then I think also, Laura, when you're talking about
that college to pro pipeline and the fandom in college
not necessarily translating to the fandom and pro, very similar
conversation to what we.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Had about volleyball.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
And so it's cool slash interesting where we're starting to
see these trends in some of these sports and or leagues.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Definitely that's one thing, just kind of zooming out for
this whole series of seeing the consistencies as we're getting
more and more into these leagues, of what trends are emerging.
How are kind of leagues looking at things and doing
things similarly, how are they differing. It's been really cool
to kind of zoom out. I think at the end
we'll have to do a little recap and some takeaways
from all the leagues we talked about.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Oh my gosh, that would be so much fun. I
love that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So, as always, we were lucky enough to have some
special guests join us for today's conversation. These are such
amazing people who've joined us. So the one and only
Kim Ang is joining us today. Not only is she
the commission for the AUSL, but she was the first
ever woman general manager in Major League Baseball when she
(04:54):
was the GM for the Miami Marlin. She literally smashes
ceilings wherever she goes, and I can't believe that we
have her on the podcast today. Next up, we have
an incredible athlete, an incredible player. You've probably heard her name,
the formidable Montana Fout, who not only has absolutely crushed
(05:16):
it in the college side, of things, but is going
to be and is a standout player on the AUS
on the AUSL side. And then we have our very
own Marcus Sisson, who previously worked for the Gist, who
played college softball and who's also Canadian, so has a
little bit of a cross border look at what softball
(05:37):
is like and an interesting take on it, especially because
she did play in college as.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well and is now a massive fan.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And so again we love having these kind of commissioner
player fan conversations because they just round out things so
well and their quotes and their thoughts are going to
be shared through. So without further ado, let's get too.
(06:07):
We are so excited to take it to the diamond
for today's Softball Conversation. Similar to our PWHL episode, I
do really feel like this conversation requires a very big
look back on.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
The sport of softball.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
It has been long and complicated in terms of its history,
and I feel like we've been on this long and
winding yellow brick road, if you will, lower in our
wicked moment en route to actually getting to a place
with a USL, and I think, Lord, you're the perfect
person to kind of walk through us on all of
this for some added context, and I think where is
(06:45):
similar to soccer, softball is a very very popular high
school sport for American girls. It is also wildly popular
at that collegiate level. There's hundreds of thousands of girls
that are playing in high school, which is I think
over the years why there's been so many attempts to
create a landing place for all of these girls to
(07:06):
be able to play softball. I would just say, over
the years it hasn't necessarily landed, I guess in a
sustainable way.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Definitely. Yeah, And there's a lot of skepticism that comes
with the pro softball history of fans being skeptical of
New League. So I think we want to unpack the
history a little bit to explain why people are so skeptical.
But on the college note, because it is such an
interesting comparison where the college fandom for as long as
I can remember, was consistent and it was there, and
I think part of that is ESPN was airing the
(07:36):
Women's College World Series early on. I was watching it
in middle school on ESPN and I could see, Oh,
I want to play at Oklahoma City, like that is
a goal. So to be able to see that as
a young softball player. Because of the ESPN investment, was
part of the college fandom there. It started early on.
And if we look at this past Women's College World Series,
the viewership was the most ever on record. There were
(07:57):
two point two million viewers for the Women's College World
Series and that was an increase of twenty four percent
from the twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Huge numbers, right, that's remarkable. It's so cool and I
feel like I feel like TOOLRD.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Part of that makes me understand better the culture around
softball too, and the braids, the braids and the hair
ribbons and the visors and the fact that I've actually
seen highlights of softball ever since I was in middle
school too, is because there was a traditional media company
that said we are making a bet on women's college
(08:29):
softball and the Women's College World Series. I would liken
this too on the Canadian side, for any of our
Canadian listeners that in Canada softball isn't really big. I'd
compare maybe hockey in the US to softball in Canada.
Some people play it, not a lot of people play it.
Not a lot of people think that there's a place
to go. But TSN, which ESPN owns in Canada partially
(08:51):
made a bet really early on on the World Juniors,
which is a hockey tournament for men under twenty, and
it became the thing that all Canadians watched starting on
December twenty sixth on Boxing Day all the way through
New Year's Super Random. There is no reason why Canadians
(09:13):
across the country should be going feral for a group
of young men playing hockey, But it was because TSN
made the bet and they made us go faral over it,
because of their storytelling it, because they aired it.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
It sounds very.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Similar lore for ESPN with the women's College World Series
and just women's softball on the college side in general.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
They said, this is where we're going to place a bet.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And lo and behold, when you put women's sports on TV,
people will tune in and people will love it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
That's why put women's sports onto That's why we're advocating
first on TV. I'll try to keep my fangirls to
a minimum in this part. It's going to be hard
for softball. But I will say too, something really cool
about the ESPN broadcast is it's been very consistent with
the team over the years, so it was Holly Row
front of the gist, Beth Mowens, Michelle Smith, these names
that you grew up listening to. Like, when I hear
Beth Momen's voice, I can be transported to watching the
(10:03):
women's called World Series. So I think that's a really
cool thing too, of your the familiary is there, Yes,
with the stay.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
If we get that on the men's side, we don't
always get that on the women's sie. I feel like
it's Rebecca Lobo. Yes, we get that now in women's basketball,
but I all the time you think Chris Collins worse
with the NFL. You hear his voice, you don't even
know what that man looks like at the time, and
you're like, I'm about to get read a play on
third and goal, you know what I mean. And so
that in those small things lure make a huge difference
(10:30):
because it's treating the sports equally definitely.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
So that's kind of where things are, and that's why
college fandom has been so consistent over the years. But
as we said the top, it hasn't been able to
convert to the pros until recently, and part of that
was this fragmented pro landscape. So take a quick look
back at the iterations of pro softball over the years.
Kind of fun fact. The very first US Pro Women's
(10:54):
Softall League was launched by Billy Jean King in nineteen
seventy six.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
She's touching everything, She's everywhere. Did you read her biography?
I think it's an autobi for I've start, I haven't
gotten all.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It's pretty thick. I've started. It's a thick one.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
She's lived a long life.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
She's she's got a lot to say.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
We always know the really has a lot to say,
but she does talk about that in her book.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
In the book, Yeah, good holiday read if or a
gift to people if you haven't read it yet. So
she has her hands on prosop ball nineteen seventy six
was the first US pro women's league. Fast forward, the
first continuous pro women's softa league was the Women's Pro
Softball League, which launched in nineteen ninety seven that later
rebranded to the National Profit Just to National Profis Pitch
(11:37):
or the NPF. So a lot of acronyms flying around there,
just kind of showing how softball has changed over the
years and the chances at pro that were kind of
popping up. The NPF was a pretty long running league,
so it ran from two thousand and four until twenty
twenty one when it eventually disbanded and the NPF is
the league I remember I grew up. I went to
NPF games growing up. So okay, there was a team
(11:58):
in New England, New England Riptide. I Actually, if we
think about the youth to pro pipeline, I played for
a travel team that was affiliated with NPF, So we
got tickets to go watch the New England Rip Tide
because we were like the mini New England Rip timee
Oh cool cool.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's really cool. And also loure fast pitch yo, Like,
what's the difference.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yes, So if you hear softball, you might think of
like men's slow pitch beer leagues, the lobbing. There is
competitive slow pitch softball. That's a totally separate thing. We're
talking about fast pitch softball. Fast pitch and softball are
kind of interchangeable. This is kind of naming conventions of
the leagues. But we're talking about underhand, full wind mill
style pitching, and this all college softball. The Pro aus
(12:43):
League were talking about is fast pitch underhand softball and.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
When softball is in the Olympics, it's also fast pitch
underhand softball exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, same style, fast pitch. And I guess another point
we want to make is softball seven innings compared to
nine in baseball, which kind of lends itself to like
the how it shows up on TV. It's a little
bit faster, different sized diamond different sized diamonds, So yeah,
there's some distinctions there too.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, Yes, it's really interesting Laura hearing you break down
like nineteen seventy eighty six to nineteen ninety seven, twenty
year gap and then seeing it happen from two thousand
and four to two thousand and one did well, But
it feels like reading between the lines lore like it
wasn't the product that everyone was happy with maybe during
(13:28):
that time.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, I think product wise, the talent was there. There
were some incredibly talented players. Think it was the sustainability
of the leagues and the salaries. So NPF. I have
an NPF story that I think about quite often. Actually,
when I went to the game when I was like,
I must have been ten or eleven. We I went
with my dad after to get autographs, as you do.
My mom went to the bathroom. When she went to
(13:50):
the bathroom, which is like a trailer in the middle
of nowhere in Massachusetts, one of the best I won't
name names, but one of the like premier players was
in there changing out of her uniform because there were
no facilities for her to change. So, wow, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, in the moment, I was like, Oh my god,
my mom just met her. I'm so jealous. But then
even that, my parents were like, why is she changing,
Like there's no locker room for her to go to.
So that's kind of where we were at with the NPF.
The talent was there. She's the premier, one of the
best to ever do it, and she's changing in the
middle of a trailer in somewhere in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
What a good metaphor for women's sports and how it's
evolved and where it started exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, So that's where we were with MPF talent. Unbelievable.
It was just the facilities and the salaries really weren't there.
These players were coaching on the side. Similar when you
bring up women talkey, it was exactly that of couldn't
be their main gig, They couldn't just play softball.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Right, Yeah, it sounds very similar and it sounds similar
also in that COVID really shook shit up.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yes, yes, because you couldn't have the consistency and keep
that link going there. So that's kind of a little
bit of the history. If we fast forward to twenty
twenty one, there was a league that had a lot
of problem So that's Women's Pro Fast Pitch or WPF
again fast pit interchangeable there. I will say when the
WPF announcement came down, people were pretty skeptical because of
(15:10):
this history of we we had so many chances for
a league there was the NPF. Just softball fans had
been duped so many times before and let down that
people were skeptical. An exciting part of WPF is softball legend.
Lauren Chamberlain was the league's commissioner. She's amazing softball goat.
But the WPF sadly had a bunch of payment issues,
so again we're talking about salary. There's a previous Just
(15:31):
episode all about what was happening there. But it goes
to show this space really needed some stability. Like we
softball fans were clamoring for a consistent league and a
chance to see their college stars go and have the
chance to play professionally.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, sounds that's so similar to hockey.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
It's actually wild that there needed to be a complete rehaul,
overdue blow up, change the way the business model completely,
and then figure out, Okay, where's this investment actually coming from.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Are we raising.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Money, who is running these leagues? How are we bringing
in brands, how are we actually ensuring that we can
pay our players and pay all of the facilities and
what have you. And I think that's what really brings
us to the league at the center of today's episode,
and that is the Athletes.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Unlimited Softball League.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So the AUSL AUSL You've probably heard us talk about
it on the podcast before, but it's part of the
Athletes Unlimited network, which first launched was softball back in
twenty twenty. So they decided to say, we're starting with
this super awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Sport and we're gonna run with it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And they played for four seasons under the AAU Fantasy
style model, with all of the games hosted in Rosemont, Illinois.
Two pieces of context on that the AU Fantasy model
is essentially where there's not specific teams in the way
that we are used to, let's say in Major League baseball,
but the whole point is to crown an individu dual
(17:00):
athlete as the winner. And very similar to fantasy sports
like football, where your favorite players are earning points based
off of touchdowns caught or yards rushed, these softball players
were earning points based off of their batting average or
how they played on defense and things like that, all
ultimately to crown. And then also Lore Illinois, they go
(17:24):
wild's absolutely wild for softball.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
They do a great location.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah exactly. They had a long standing NPF team in
that area, so the softball fans are out there. Kind
of became a hub of we know the fans are
going to come out and really support this individual style
setup that's going on.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, right, because they just love softball. So a you
kind of came in as like, will they be this savior.
I don't know if that's maybe too dramatic, but it
kind of felt like that, I'd say, in twenty twenty low,
at least from us covering it at THEI just set
of things like can they come in and actually create
a space for softball that we could be excited about
for years and decades to come Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think another part of this too is the timing
of it of AU softball was immediately after the college season,
so you knew, Okay, I just watched these players. I
just watched Maya Brady go crazy and the one was
called World Series. I have to stop watching her after
this week long tournament. No, you can watch her in AU.
So to have that timing worked out really well, and
they took advantage of that as well.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, Mayo Brady, I think you do need to take
a minute. My Brad just explained Mya Brady UCLA softball legend.
A lot of people are like, she is Tom Brady's niece.
I will say that, and I think that's why maybe
the mainstream is familiar with her.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
But which is great?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Is so great?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Right, she's a household name, But he is quick to
say that she's the best athlete in the family. Just
unbelievable batting average at UCLA, great, acrobatic catches in the outfield.
She just got selected number one overall in the AUSL
expansion draft, which we're going to get into a little
bit more after. So she's just superstar player and it's
awesome that she's one of the household names for sure.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And of those sport crossovers.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You see who was it, Russell Wilson's cousin, younger sister, niece, sister.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, sister nieth Ca. Yeah, one of those someone like.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
That, Russell Wilson quarterback not so good.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
These things, but longer starting quarterback, no longer not good anymore,
but Russell Wilson, same kind of thing, like quarterback, had
a gal and his family who was playing top tier basketball.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Broan a lot. Yeah, right, like brought in.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I feel like a lot of new fans being like,
oh my god, Russell's family members in this, let's go,
and then they can fall in love with the player
or with the sport for their own merit.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Which I think is really cool.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, she's definitely made entirely her own name for herself
after that temper connection, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And then there was so it started off with AU Softball,
and then there was AU X Softball, and that came.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
In in twenty twenty two, which was really an all star.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Style competition, which was just a more condensed format of
essentially what they had. And this was in addition to
that fantasy style five.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Week AU season.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I think Their intention behind AUX was just like, oh,
softwall's working for us, can we do more of it?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Definitely? I think that's what it was to and just
extend it and be in people's feeds on people's TVs
a little bit longer. So that's the fantasy style of AU.
This was the early iterations. I think both of us
feel similarly about the AU model of it's cool, it's
fun to watch, it's awesome that these players had this opportunity,
but it's kind of hard to follow. When the teams
are shaking up every single week. You can really fall
(20:32):
in love with those individual players. But even I got
to attend the AU Championship one season. It was in
twenty twenty four, and I'm a huge softball fan. I
knew all these players watch them in college, and for
me it was hard to follow a little bit. They
were reminding people between every single inning of how the
scoring worked out and the leaderboard and it's just a
lot to keep track of. And people, I think wanted
(20:52):
that traditional model. So it was cool. But there's some drawbacks,
of course to the AU fantasy style.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, there's that I feel like a good and that
psychological side of things of just like the way kind
of we talked about in the soccer episode, but the
way US North Americans are brought up in sports is
generally a model that you almost are forced to follow,
and then it's almost like fantasy can follow after that.
You can still fall in love with an individual athlete
and then fall in love with the team. I think
I've certainly done that and like followed them from team
(21:22):
to team. But there is something about having the team spirit.
I guess you could say that drives fandom and excitement
and makes it just clean.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, keeps it straightforward. Which brings us to the June
twenty twenty four announcement that AU would be launching a
traditional team base league. I was so excited when this
news came down. Oh my god. I was like, remember
looking at my phone and seeing One part of this
is they got so many legends to be part of
this league. So we talked about Lauren Chamberlain being in
the WPF earlier. I think when you saw the investors
(21:57):
and the people that would be advising ausl so awfull.
People were like great Jess Mendoza, Lisa Fernandez, just these names,
these legends of the sport that didn't have the consistent
pro opportunities, Like they were Olympians and they were competing
at that international level and they just never had that
consistent pro landscape. To see them be part of AUSL,
it was just the best news when that traditional four
(22:17):
team league came down.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yes, and when we say traditional two each year might
look a little bit different. So at the beginning, when
we say traditional for AU, it meant there was teams.
They were not based off of this fantasy individual person,
but they didn't have a city specific at that time.
They weren't playing specifically out of I don't know, Chicago
or Boston. Let's say they did compete in thirty games,
(22:42):
but they were holding them at rotating locations throughout the
season with the intention of they are going to be
actually playing in city specific locations this season moving forward.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yes, I think that's important. For that first season, it
was kind of like a storming tour. They went into
the ooh I like that softball meccas so like Oklahoma City, Alabama.
They went into cities that love softball and the teams
played in front of them. And now there will be
that transition into a more city based team style as
you're saying, So we do already have the Oklahoma City Spark.
We're waiting on cities for the rest of the teams,
(23:19):
but we're getting that branding and that consistency. The other
major part of AUSL and their success is right before
the season, they announced a partnership with Major League Baseball.
This was absolutely huge to have this. None of the
pro leagues previously had this investment, and we don't need
the men, but to have the investment of Major League
Baseball and kind of be where the W was with
(23:40):
the investment from the NBA. This news was just absolutely
incredible to see MLB strategically investing in AUSL from the
very beginning.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And I really like what you've said here, Laur in
terms of strategic.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Investment, the NBA is kind of like the parent of
the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
They are the same company.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's not what's happening with MLB and AUSL here. They
are strategic investors. They are there to support the league,
but au is running this league still themselves, So I
don't think we're going to run into some of the
issues per se. I think that sometimes the WNBA runs
into being essentially owned or like direct partners with the NBA,
(24:22):
and I also think.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Too, Like, for sure, MLB.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Is helping au and AUSL on ten percent, but let's
not get it twisted. They are so interested in softball
fans as well. They want softball fans watching Major League Baseball.
They recognize that they need to do something with the
next generation with women, with young girls to get them
into the game, and so they're doing this for themselves
(24:48):
as well.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Definitely, it goes both ways. It's mutually beneficial and they
want to make money exactly. It's cool too because the
AUSL stuff is really being distributed across the MLB networks.
I think that's where I've really seen this investment show
up where MLB dot com the headline is about the
AUSL season and they're spend that consistency. So it's really cool.
I just love this partnership. It's it's my two loves
coming together. It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It is you're so obsessed with that.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Ball sports.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, exactly, let's flip things to kim ag here for
a minute and get her thoughts. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
So MLB has obviously been around for one hundred years
and so really well known name out in the sports space.
So for them to come and make a strategic investment
in a USL I think gave us a lot of credibility, legitimacy,
and I think it's signaled to the sports landscape that
(25:39):
we are, you know, that we have arrived, and so
having them stand beside us, I think has really helped
in terms of our brand awareness. And clearly we saw
that throughout this season.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's time to go over to Montana Folts and see
what she has to say about this.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
I know that MLB stepping in, I think that it's
just showing everybody that softball is being taken seriously on
all platforms. So I think just having the opportunity and
just kind of like a nudge in the right direction,
I think is huge for our sport.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And there are going to be two new teams for
twenty twenty six, so there's going to be six teams
I guess then all together the six total yep. Yeah,
which when we look again at the PWHL, you could
tell one of my favorite leagues are. I think six
is a really nice number. I think four is maybe
you get.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
To the place.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Okay, this is feeling a little small, but six is
a great place to be and I feel like it's
a good jumping point to then quickly hopefully get.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
To eight exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So we just had, as we said at the top,
the expansion draft earlier this month, allocation draft. So those
teams are getting set and we're really excited to see
what's heading up in this next twenty twenty six season.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yes, so that is the long and winding history and
road of softball. We're going to take a quick break
here and then get into a little bit more conversation
from our guests, but also get into the numbers, the data,
the brand involvement of it all in the second half
of the pod.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
All Right, at this point, I think y'all know I
love a little data sash or data sesh depending on
who you are and.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
What do you like to say.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And I feel like it's so important because again, it
feels like it anchors the conversation. It showcases where things
can go, and it also showcases where each of these
leagues and where each of these sports are at I
think in terms of their maturity, and softball is very
interesting because when we're looking at the college side versus AUSL,
(27:35):
they're at very different points of maturity, and I would
say a college quite mature AUSL mature ring. Maybe college
is a college student and AUSL is almost like the
preteen I would say in terms of its development.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
If you think that's.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Fair low, Well, I think that makes sense as the
awareness goes up, and I think they'll take advantage of
that college fan and really figure out how to convert them.
But I like that comp of the timeline. I think
that works.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Well.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Okay, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So let's start off them with ESPN because I think
that was such a big thing that you brought up
at the beginning. Let's talk about where AUSL is at
as it comes to their media rights deal, which is
notably with still ESPN. So ESPN was like, yeah, we
made the bet on College, We're going to make the
bet On Pro two.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I think it was such a smart move to do that.
So if we look at the AUSL Championship, the inaugural championship,
it averaged two hundred and thirty thousand viewers on ESPN.
I will say I was at that championship game with
two of our social team girlies, Jason Jess. There's a
huge rain delay in that gamesset. It was massive, it
was crazy. We were in the press box like just
trying to get through it and taking it all in.
(28:39):
So before the rain delay, there were three Inchard forty
seven thousand viewers, So just want to make that distinction.
There was a rain delay in there, but those numbers,
both of them are still lower than the numbers was
at the top for the Woman's College World Series.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Context is key in both of those, in the rain
delay and in college, and that's why Ausl is still preteen,
still growing into where she's gonna end up going for
the complete season for Ausl across ESPN, ESPN two and
ESPN U which is their university basically channel, viewership jumped
eighty eight percent last year, but it's still south of
(29:14):
one hundred and fifty thousand viewers. One thing too, you know,
there's ESPN that most people, if you have a sports package,
you have access to.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
ESPN two is a little.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Bit harder to get access to, depending on the package
cable package that you have, and then ESPN U is
generally one that you do have to have a subscription
for and you're like die hard ESPN And so sometimes
it's great when sports or women's sports are on those
ESPN new channels because at least there's distribution, but then
in other times you are really whittling down the field
(29:44):
to people who are either obsessed with sports or who
are obsessed with softball that are willing to pay it.
And then the discovery that men's sports in years past
had the very much massive opportunity to take advantage of
women's sports is getting less of that opportunity with the
rise and streaming.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, I really like that distinction. It's not like you
can flip around and just land on ESPN you randomly,
like you have to go out seek it out. So
I think that's important. So to that point, AOSL has
a three year Meteorites deal with ESPN that was just announced,
so it begins this coming season in twenty twenty six.
They're going to carry fifty exclusive AOSL games, and I
think the most exciting part for me is part of
(30:21):
that includes a game that will be broadcast on ABC.
So the first I remember the first Woman's College Softball
World Series on ABC, it was like it's on your TV.
It's just there now, it's happening consistently, like you can
jump right to it. So I think to have an
AUSL game, it's going to be the first pro softball
game on broadcast TV in the US. It's a huge moment.
And to see that longevity with the ESPN, I know
they're going to produce it and do a great job
(30:42):
with it too.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
And the product is so good, like the AUSL product
is fantastic that without a doubt, if people stumble upon
it or actively go to watch it, they're gonna be like,
holy shit, these athletes are amazing, and they're going to
fall in love and want to keep watching it. I
do want to bring in a comparison for softball all
we don't really have too much to compare to because
(31:04):
AUSL in the format that it is now is quite new.
So I feel like lore looking at Unrivaled or looking
at NWSL and their year ones could potentially be good here.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, definitely. So if we look at those numbers, the
Unrivaled season average one hundred eighty six thousand viewers on
TNT and True TV, so again those are it's accessible.
T ANDT is pretty accessible, while the NWSL average one
hundred and seventy five thousand viewers in the first year
of its media deal in twenty twenty four, So those
they're in the neighborhood of that one hundred and fifty
(31:36):
thousand mark the AOSL set, but lower still for AUSL,
which is great to me.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
The TLDR and that is they're all in the mix.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Like AUSL is in the mix, Unrivaled is in the mix,
and I think that that's a fantastic place to start.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I also have really enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Seeing how AUSL has really focused on not only the
investor side of things. Lor they've really brought on those
strategic investors like MLB, like those prior athletes, really smart
people in this space. But they've been really intentional with
their brand involvement as well, and I think that it's
only going to get bigger as we head into twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
There are some.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Really big names associated with the league. I think the
biggest one is Sephora. We saw Sephora get involved with
the Golden State Valkyries. We're seeing them get involved with
the Golden.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
State Warriors now.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
We saw them featured on Running Point on Netflix, which
I thought.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Was so fun.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And generally they've come in as a team partner, but
seeing them come in as an exclusive beauty partner for
the entire league, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And I think that that.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Also is a indicator to other brands of if a
massive brand like this is getting involved with AUSL, I
should probably take a call and understand how I could
get involved.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Too, definitely, and Sephora is just one of them. Goodie
was also a massive partner. They activated at the championship.
They had a brating booth where you could get your
hair done and get it style. And when you say
intentional spots, softball is so cool because you can I
guess you could do this in a lot of different sports,
but you can really express yourself, like, yes, Pitcher hair
was a thing growing up and it was like, oh,
how'd your braids go? And I had my distinct look.
(33:12):
People have ribbons like watching it growing up. These pictures
had full beats while they were pitching. And I don't
know how their foundation stayed through seven things, most likely,
but it is really intentional and it's catering to the audience.
Part of that too is Rebel Girls, which is a
media company based for the younger generation. They're a sponsor
of AUSL two and a massive partner, So it's really
(33:34):
really intentional and it feels authentic to the fans.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Then I like this intentionality because a lot of the
softball fans right now it is young girls lore, and
it is people who have played softball before that are
championing the sport that are then bringing in people like
me who hopefully then I'm bringing in other people like that,
and I think it will just be really interesting to
see what this fandom journey is like. We have a
(33:58):
couple more minute before the end of our podcast. Where
do you see softball going over the next I don't know,
two to five years.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah, I am really excited about the space. I think
before AUSL I would be kind of hesitant and I
would feel uncomfortable about there. But knowing what AUSL is doing,
I think there's just so much possibility. I think the
challenge right now is it's really successful in softball markets.
So Oklahoma City, Illinois, as you mentioned Alabama, those are
(34:32):
softball havens. They love it, they eat it up. Whereas
I'm in the Northeast and my friends that I played
softball with our fans, But I don't know if it's
extending exactly there. So I think it needs to grow
to the coast. It's softball's massive on the West coast,
tough California as a haven for softball, But I think
just expanding that fandom into places where there hasn't been
that consistent Team New England Riptide folded when I was younger,
(34:53):
so to bring that back and really spread it out
across the country will be part of this. I think
if we look at the LA twenty twenty Olympics, that
is a massive, massive opportunity. The international competition is so exciting.
Softball is coming back, but part of that is it
won't be played in LA. So it's going to be
played in Oklahoma City, so it's how do we show up?
How does the sport still stay top of mind when
(35:14):
it's not played in LA. So I'm really excited. I
think AUSL is they're changing the game. I got to
go there and see the people working behind it and
just the players and how much it's been an opportunity
for them to play domestically. So there's these challenges I foresee,
but I just think there's so much opportunity and to
have AUSL as the focal point is huge.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I love those comments. I think that they're very astute
and insightful. Let's hear from softball super fan Marga, who
has a big vision of what's to come.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
I'm picturing like an MLB stadium tour for these for
this league, where like there they can play at these venues,
you know, kind of like how some of the w
teams have played at their NBA venues. PTERHL are playing
up to the bigger van. So like I hope, yeah,
with the momentum that the league has now, the support
(36:05):
and yeah, the leadership that they have that they're pretty
established at that point where they can like sell out
an MLB stadium, they can play in them regularly. So
maybe maybe we're up to like ten or twelve teams
and then we could get into like a conference like
Eastern Western Conference type thing. Then it just opens up
so many more opportunities for girls to play. Which again,
(36:27):
like two I said at the beginning, like once you're
done college, like that was it, that was the end,
But now like there is more to look forward to.
There are so so many good players, and yeah, then
they'll have this opportunity to play. So yeah, I learn.
I hope we get to go to like an MLB
stadium tour for the AUSL.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And five years. Let's look again to see what Kim
Ang has to say about the next few years or
five years, rather.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Five years from now I hoped. I hope we've gone
through another round of expansion. We are going to keep
building our foundation and strengthening this so that we are
self sustaining league for forever. You know, this is how
you do it, and we're going to make sure that
it's done right.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I think that's a great way to end today's podcast.
Thank you all so much for tuning in to the
gist of pro women's softball with us.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
We'll be back in your feed with another edition of
She's Not Next, She's Now next Monday. In the meantime,
we'd love for you to rate, review, subscribe, share this
podcast with your softball friend, share it with everyone. We
want everyone in the softball space.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
This episode was edited by Savannah Hold and produced by
Lauren Tuscala.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Again, I'm Ellen Hyslop.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And I'm Lauren, and we will chat with you again
next week. And alished as English as.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
E A.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Speaking as.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
A speak at a ste
Happy Monday, besties.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We are back for episode four of our exciting new
podcast series, She's Not Next, She's Now. Where we are
breaking down the gist Wink wink, nudge, nudge on emerging
women's sports in the leagues developing around them.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We're your coast. I'm Ellen Hyslap.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm also the co host of The Gist of It
and one of the co founders of The Gist.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Lauren Tuscla, Theist Associate Managing editor. We're here.
We're at episode four. We're doing any way through halfway through.
That's crazy. We're bringing this eight part series and if
you've listened to the first few, you know each week
we're discussing a different new and emerging women's sport and
really diving deep into the leagues that compose that sport.
We're looking at the history, which we'll get into a
(00:52):
lot with today's episode. We're looking at the current state
of the game, and then we're kind of looking into
the crystal ball and discussing what we expect in the
coming years.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, and we say this every episode, but I think
it's worth a reminder. We are doing this because women's
sports are in such a special place right now, and
we're seeing so much change happen right before our eyes.
And all of this change is very normal in business,
it's very normal in sports. It's just we saw it
on the men's side probably forty to one hundred plus
(01:22):
years ago, and so now we're trying to make sense
of all of it on the women's sports side, and
we want to do so by bringing you this series.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, and it's not just us driving these conversations, so
Ellen and I kind of get into the details and
lay out what's happening in the scene, but we got
to talk to a lot of really great guests for
these conversations too, So episodes one, two, and three are
already in your feeds. The first episode was about the
Peter BHL. We had Olympians on the podcast. We had
Hillary Night, we had Sarah Nurs. It was such a
great episode. Episode two was all about the pro indoor
(01:53):
women's volleyball scene. We had more Olympians on that episode.
We had Jordan Thompson, Jordan Poulter, Jordan Lars and it
was really exciting digging into the kind of crowded women's
volleyball space and really breaking down what's happening, and then
episode three dropped last week. It was all about women's
soccer and really looking at the emerging leagues, the up
and comers. So we talked a little bit about the
consistent leagues and WSL, but we got into the real
(02:15):
emerging ones and who's kind of next in the space.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, and it's been so fun talking to all of
those players, but also having an opportunity to chat with
fans and executives and get their opinion on the space
because oftentimes what the players are seeing is very different
than what the business side is seeing or what the
fans are seeing.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Definitely, it's been cool to put all these different voices
in conversation. Yeah. For today's podcast, last week was Ellen's
favorite sport. This week is my favorite sport. We're talking
about softball. I'm so excited to do this episode with
you Elle. It's a game that's seen really great attendance
and viewership numbers at the college level. So for as
long as I can remember, college softball was pretty successful,
(02:56):
but its struggled to make that conversion to the professional level,
and I think that's changed really recently with the launch
of Athletes Unlimited Softball League, which is the league we'll
be focusing on mostly for today's episode. So we're going
to unpack that pro history and get into kind of
some of the problems that softball has experience, and then
look at the AUSL and how it's changing the game.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm so excited to learn from you in this episode, Laura.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
When we were working on the production notes of the podcast,
I literally barely lifted a finger.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think most of what I did for today's episode
was ask a lot of questions.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You have so much institutional knowledge in this space. I
think from the U side all the way up to
the pro side, and I think from my outside lens.
It's been very interesting, I think getting to compare softball
and AUSL almost to women's hockey and the PWHL in
a way, so all the way back to episode one.
(03:49):
And then I think also, Laura, when you're talking about
that college to pro pipeline and the fandom in college
not necessarily translating to the fandom and pro, very similar
conversation to what we.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Had about volleyball.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
And so it's cool slash interesting where we're starting to
see these trends in some of these sports and or leagues.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Definitely that's one thing, just kind of zooming out for
this whole series of seeing the consistencies as we're getting
more and more into these leagues, of what trends are emerging.
How are kind of leagues looking at things and doing
things similarly, how are they differing. It's been really cool
to kind of zoom out. I think at the end
we'll have to do a little recap and some takeaways
from all the leagues we talked about.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Oh my gosh, that would be so much fun. I
love that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So, as always, we were lucky enough to have some
special guests join us for today's conversation. These are such
amazing people who've joined us. So the one and only
Kim Ang is joining us today. Not only is she
the commission for the AUSL, but she was the first
ever woman general manager in Major League Baseball when she
(04:54):
was the GM for the Miami Marlin. She literally smashes
ceilings wherever she goes, and I can't believe that we
have her on the podcast today. Next up, we have
an incredible athlete, an incredible player. You've probably heard her name,
the formidable Montana Fout, who not only has absolutely crushed
(05:16):
it in the college side, of things, but is going
to be and is a standout player on the AUS
on the AUSL side. And then we have our very
own Marcus Sisson, who previously worked for the Gist, who
played college softball and who's also Canadian, so has a
little bit of a cross border look at what softball
(05:37):
is like and an interesting take on it, especially because
she did play in college as.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well and is now a massive fan.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And so again we love having these kind of commissioner
player fan conversations because they just round out things so
well and their quotes and their thoughts are going to
be shared through. So without further ado, let's get too.
(06:07):
We are so excited to take it to the diamond
for today's Softball Conversation. Similar to our PWHL episode, I
do really feel like this conversation requires a very big
look back on.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
The sport of softball.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
It has been long and complicated in terms of its history,
and I feel like we've been on this long and
winding yellow brick road, if you will, lower in our
wicked moment en route to actually getting to a place
with a USL, and I think, Lord, you're the perfect
person to kind of walk through us on all of
this for some added context, and I think where is
(06:45):
similar to soccer, softball is a very very popular high
school sport for American girls. It is also wildly popular
at that collegiate level. There's hundreds of thousands of girls
that are playing in high school, which is I think
over the years why there's been so many attempts to
create a landing place for all of these girls to
(07:06):
be able to play softball. I would just say, over
the years it hasn't necessarily landed, I guess in a
sustainable way.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Definitely. Yeah, And there's a lot of skepticism that comes
with the pro softball history of fans being skeptical of
New League. So I think we want to unpack the
history a little bit to explain why people are so skeptical.
But on the college note, because it is such an
interesting comparison where the college fandom for as long as
I can remember, was consistent and it was there, and
I think part of that is ESPN was airing the
(07:36):
Women's College World Series early on. I was watching it
in middle school on ESPN and I could see, Oh,
I want to play at Oklahoma City, like that is
a goal. So to be able to see that as
a young softball player. Because of the ESPN investment, was
part of the college fandom there. It started early on.
And if we look at this past Women's College World Series,
the viewership was the most ever on record. There were
(07:57):
two point two million viewers for the Women's College World
Series and that was an increase of twenty four percent
from the twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Huge numbers, right, that's remarkable. It's so cool and I
feel like I feel like TOOLRD.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Part of that makes me understand better the culture around
softball too, and the braids, the braids and the hair
ribbons and the visors and the fact that I've actually
seen highlights of softball ever since I was in middle
school too, is because there was a traditional media company
that said we are making a bet on women's college
(08:29):
softball and the Women's College World Series. I would liken
this too on the Canadian side, for any of our
Canadian listeners that in Canada softball isn't really big. I'd
compare maybe hockey in the US to softball in Canada.
Some people play it, not a lot of people play it.
Not a lot of people think that there's a place
to go. But TSN, which ESPN owns in Canada partially
(08:51):
made a bet really early on on the World Juniors,
which is a hockey tournament for men under twenty, and
it became the thing that all Canadians watched starting on
December twenty sixth on Boxing Day all the way through
New Year's Super Random. There is no reason why Canadians
(09:13):
across the country should be going feral for a group
of young men playing hockey, But it was because TSN
made the bet and they made us go faral over it,
because of their storytelling it, because they aired it.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
It sounds very.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Similar lore for ESPN with the women's College World Series
and just women's softball on the college side in general.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
They said, this is where we're going to place a bet.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And lo and behold, when you put women's sports on TV,
people will tune in and people will love it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
That's why put women's sports onto That's why we're advocating
first on TV. I'll try to keep my fangirls to
a minimum in this part. It's going to be hard
for softball. But I will say too, something really cool
about the ESPN broadcast is it's been very consistent with
the team over the years, so it was Holly Row
front of the gist, Beth Mowens, Michelle Smith, these names
that you grew up listening to. Like, when I hear
Beth Momen's voice, I can be transported to watching the
(10:03):
women's called World Series. So I think that's a really
cool thing too, of your the familiary is there, Yes,
with the stay.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
If we get that on the men's side, we don't
always get that on the women's sie. I feel like
it's Rebecca Lobo. Yes, we get that now in women's basketball,
but I all the time you think Chris Collins worse
with the NFL. You hear his voice, you don't even
know what that man looks like at the time, and
you're like, I'm about to get read a play on
third and goal, you know what I mean. And so
that in those small things lure make a huge difference
(10:30):
because it's treating the sports equally definitely.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
So that's kind of where things are, and that's why
college fandom has been so consistent over the years. But
as we said the top, it hasn't been able to
convert to the pros until recently, and part of that
was this fragmented pro landscape. So take a quick look
back at the iterations of pro softball over the years.
Kind of fun fact. The very first US Pro Women's
(10:54):
Softall League was launched by Billy Jean King in nineteen
seventy six.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
She's touching everything, She's everywhere. Did you read her biography?
I think it's an autobi for I've start, I haven't
gotten all.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It's pretty thick. I've started. It's a thick one.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
She's lived a long life.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
She's she's got a lot to say.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
We always know the really has a lot to say,
but she does talk about that in her book.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
In the book, Yeah, good holiday read if or a
gift to people if you haven't read it yet. So
she has her hands on prosop ball nineteen seventy six
was the first US pro women's league. Fast forward, the
first continuous pro women's softa league was the Women's Pro
Softball League, which launched in nineteen ninety seven that later
rebranded to the National Profit Just to National Profis Pitch
(11:37):
or the NPF. So a lot of acronyms flying around there,
just kind of showing how softball has changed over the
years and the chances at pro that were kind of
popping up. The NPF was a pretty long running league,
so it ran from two thousand and four until twenty
twenty one when it eventually disbanded and the NPF is
the league I remember I grew up. I went to
NPF games growing up. So okay, there was a team
(11:58):
in New England, New England Riptide. I Actually, if we
think about the youth to pro pipeline, I played for
a travel team that was affiliated with NPF, So we
got tickets to go watch the New England Rip Tide
because we were like the mini New England Rip timee
Oh cool cool.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's really cool. And also loure fast pitch yo, Like,
what's the difference.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yes, So if you hear softball, you might think of
like men's slow pitch beer leagues, the lobbing. There is
competitive slow pitch softball. That's a totally separate thing. We're
talking about fast pitch softball. Fast pitch and softball are
kind of interchangeable. This is kind of naming conventions of
the leagues. But we're talking about underhand, full wind mill
style pitching, and this all college softball. The Pro aus
(12:43):
League were talking about is fast pitch underhand softball and.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
When softball is in the Olympics, it's also fast pitch
underhand softball exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, same style, fast pitch. And I guess another point
we want to make is softball seven innings compared to
nine in baseball, which kind of lends itself to like
the how it shows up on TV. It's a little
bit faster, different sized diamond different sized diamonds, So yeah,
there's some distinctions there too.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, Yes, it's really interesting Laura hearing you break down
like nineteen seventy eighty six to nineteen ninety seven, twenty
year gap and then seeing it happen from two thousand
and four to two thousand and one did well, But
it feels like reading between the lines lore like it
wasn't the product that everyone was happy with maybe during
(13:28):
that time.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, I think product wise, the talent was there. There
were some incredibly talented players. Think it was the sustainability
of the leagues and the salaries. So NPF. I have
an NPF story that I think about quite often. Actually,
when I went to the game when I was like,
I must have been ten or eleven. We I went
with my dad after to get autographs, as you do.
My mom went to the bathroom. When she went to
(13:50):
the bathroom, which is like a trailer in the middle
of nowhere in Massachusetts, one of the best I won't
name names, but one of the like premier players was
in there changing out of her uniform because there were
no facilities for her to change. So, wow, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, in the moment, I was like, Oh my god,
my mom just met her. I'm so jealous. But then
even that, my parents were like, why is she changing,
Like there's no locker room for her to go to.
So that's kind of where we were at with the NPF.
The talent was there. She's the premier, one of the
best to ever do it, and she's changing in the
middle of a trailer in somewhere in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
What a good metaphor for women's sports and how it's
evolved and where it started exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, So that's where we were with MPF talent. Unbelievable.
It was just the facilities and the salaries really weren't there.
These players were coaching on the side. Similar when you
bring up women talkey, it was exactly that of couldn't
be their main gig, They couldn't just play softball.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Right, Yeah, it sounds very similar and it sounds similar
also in that COVID really shook shit up.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yes, yes, because you couldn't have the consistency and keep
that link going there. So that's kind of a little
bit of the history. If we fast forward to twenty
twenty one, there was a league that had a lot
of problem So that's Women's Pro Fast Pitch or WPF
again fast pit interchangeable there. I will say when the
WPF announcement came down, people were pretty skeptical because of
(15:10):
this history of we we had so many chances for
a league there was the NPF. Just softball fans had
been duped so many times before and let down that
people were skeptical. An exciting part of WPF is softball legend.
Lauren Chamberlain was the league's commissioner. She's amazing softball goat.
But the WPF sadly had a bunch of payment issues,
so again we're talking about salary. There's a previous Just
(15:31):
episode all about what was happening there. But it goes
to show this space really needed some stability. Like we
softball fans were clamoring for a consistent league and a
chance to see their college stars go and have the
chance to play professionally.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, sounds that's so similar to hockey.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
It's actually wild that there needed to be a complete rehaul,
overdue blow up, change the way the business model completely,
and then figure out, Okay, where's this investment actually coming from.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Are we raising.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Money, who is running these leagues? How are we bringing
in brands, how are we actually ensuring that we can
pay our players and pay all of the facilities and
what have you. And I think that's what really brings
us to the league at the center of today's episode,
and that is the Athletes.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Unlimited Softball League.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So the AUSL AUSL You've probably heard us talk about
it on the podcast before, but it's part of the
Athletes Unlimited network, which first launched was softball back in
twenty twenty. So they decided to say, we're starting with
this super awesome.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Sport and we're gonna run with it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And they played for four seasons under the AAU Fantasy
style model, with all of the games hosted in Rosemont, Illinois.
Two pieces of context on that the AU Fantasy model
is essentially where there's not specific teams in the way
that we are used to, let's say in Major League baseball,
but the whole point is to crown an individu dual
(17:00):
athlete as the winner. And very similar to fantasy sports
like football, where your favorite players are earning points based
off of touchdowns caught or yards rushed, these softball players
were earning points based off of their batting average or
how they played on defense and things like that, all
ultimately to crown. And then also Lore Illinois, they go
(17:24):
wild's absolutely wild for softball.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
They do a great location.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah exactly. They had a long standing NPF team in
that area, so the softball fans are out there. Kind
of became a hub of we know the fans are
going to come out and really support this individual style
setup that's going on.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, right, because they just love softball. So a you
kind of came in as like, will they be this savior.
I don't know if that's maybe too dramatic, but it
kind of felt like that, I'd say, in twenty twenty low,
at least from us covering it at THEI just set
of things like can they come in and actually create
a space for softball that we could be excited about
for years and decades to come Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think another part of this too is the timing
of it of AU softball was immediately after the college season,
so you knew, Okay, I just watched these players. I
just watched Maya Brady go crazy and the one was
called World Series. I have to stop watching her after
this week long tournament. No, you can watch her in AU.
So to have that timing worked out really well, and
they took advantage of that as well.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, Mayo Brady, I think you do need to take
a minute. My Brad just explained Mya Brady UCLA softball legend.
A lot of people are like, she is Tom Brady's niece.
I will say that, and I think that's why maybe
the mainstream is familiar with her.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
But which is great?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Is so great?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Right, she's a household name, But he is quick to
say that she's the best athlete in the family. Just
unbelievable batting average at UCLA, great, acrobatic catches in the outfield.
She just got selected number one overall in the AUSL
expansion draft, which we're going to get into a little
bit more after. So she's just superstar player and it's
awesome that she's one of the household names for sure.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And of those sport crossovers.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You see who was it, Russell Wilson's cousin, younger sister, niece, sister.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, sister nieth Ca. Yeah, one of those someone like.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
That, Russell Wilson quarterback not so good.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
These things, but longer starting quarterback, no longer not good anymore,
but Russell Wilson, same kind of thing, like quarterback, had
a gal and his family who was playing top tier basketball.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Broan a lot. Yeah, right, like brought in.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I feel like a lot of new fans being like,
oh my god, Russell's family members in this, let's go,
and then they can fall in love with the player
or with the sport for their own merit.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Which I think is really cool.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, she's definitely made entirely her own name for herself
after that temper connection, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And then there was so it started off with AU Softball,
and then there was AU X Softball, and that came.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
In in twenty twenty two, which was really an all star.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Style competition, which was just a more condensed format of
essentially what they had. And this was in addition to
that fantasy style five.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Week AU season.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I think Their intention behind AUX was just like, oh,
softwall's working for us, can we do more of it?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Definitely? I think that's what it was to and just
extend it and be in people's feeds on people's TVs
a little bit longer. So that's the fantasy style of AU.
This was the early iterations. I think both of us
feel similarly about the AU model of it's cool, it's
fun to watch, it's awesome that these players had this opportunity,
but it's kind of hard to follow. When the teams
are shaking up every single week. You can really fall
(20:32):
in love with those individual players. But even I got
to attend the AU Championship one season. It was in
twenty twenty four, and I'm a huge softball fan. I
knew all these players watch them in college, and for
me it was hard to follow a little bit. They
were reminding people between every single inning of how the
scoring worked out and the leaderboard and it's just a
lot to keep track of. And people, I think wanted
(20:52):
that traditional model. So it was cool. But there's some drawbacks,
of course to the AU fantasy style.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, there's that I feel like a good and that
psychological side of things of just like the way kind
of we talked about in the soccer episode, but the
way US North Americans are brought up in sports is
generally a model that you almost are forced to follow,
and then it's almost like fantasy can follow after that.
You can still fall in love with an individual athlete
and then fall in love with the team. I think
I've certainly done that and like followed them from team
(21:22):
to team. But there is something about having the team spirit.
I guess you could say that drives fandom and excitement
and makes it just clean.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, keeps it straightforward. Which brings us to the June
twenty twenty four announcement that AU would be launching a
traditional team base league. I was so excited when this
news came down. Oh my god. I was like, remember
looking at my phone and seeing One part of this
is they got so many legends to be part of
this league. So we talked about Lauren Chamberlain being in
the WPF earlier. I think when you saw the investors
(21:57):
and the people that would be advising ausl so awfull.
People were like great Jess Mendoza, Lisa Fernandez, just these names,
these legends of the sport that didn't have the consistent
pro opportunities, Like they were Olympians and they were competing
at that international level and they just never had that
consistent pro landscape. To see them be part of AUSL,
it was just the best news when that traditional four
(22:17):
team league came down.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yes, and when we say traditional two each year might
look a little bit different. So at the beginning, when
we say traditional for AU, it meant there was teams.
They were not based off of this fantasy individual person,
but they didn't have a city specific at that time.
They weren't playing specifically out of I don't know, Chicago
or Boston. Let's say they did compete in thirty games,
(22:42):
but they were holding them at rotating locations throughout the
season with the intention of they are going to be
actually playing in city specific locations this season moving forward.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yes, I think that's important. For that first season, it
was kind of like a storming tour. They went into
the ooh I like that softball meccas so like Oklahoma City, Alabama.
They went into cities that love softball and the teams
played in front of them. And now there will be
that transition into a more city based team style as
you're saying, So we do already have the Oklahoma City Spark.
We're waiting on cities for the rest of the teams,
(23:19):
but we're getting that branding and that consistency. The other
major part of AUSL and their success is right before
the season, they announced a partnership with Major League Baseball.
This was absolutely huge to have this. None of the
pro leagues previously had this investment, and we don't need
the men, but to have the investment of Major League
Baseball and kind of be where the W was with
(23:40):
the investment from the NBA. This news was just absolutely
incredible to see MLB strategically investing in AUSL from the
very beginning.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And I really like what you've said here, Laur in
terms of strategic.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Investment, the NBA is kind of like the parent of
the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
They are the same company.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's not what's happening with MLB and AUSL here. They
are strategic investors. They are there to support the league,
but au is running this league still themselves, So I
don't think we're going to run into some of the
issues per se. I think that sometimes the WNBA runs
into being essentially owned or like direct partners with the NBA,
(24:22):
and I also think.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Too, Like, for sure, MLB.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Is helping au and AUSL on ten percent, but let's
not get it twisted. They are so interested in softball
fans as well. They want softball fans watching Major League Baseball.
They recognize that they need to do something with the
next generation with women, with young girls to get them
into the game, and so they're doing this for themselves
(24:48):
as well.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Definitely, it goes both ways. It's mutually beneficial and they
want to make money exactly. It's cool too because the
AUSL stuff is really being distributed across the MLB networks.
I think that's where I've really seen this investment show
up where MLB dot com the headline is about the
AUSL season and they're spend that consistency. So it's really cool.
I just love this partnership. It's it's my two loves
coming together. It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It is you're so obsessed with that.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Ball sports.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, exactly, let's flip things to kim ag here for
a minute and get her thoughts. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
So MLB has obviously been around for one hundred years
and so really well known name out in the sports space.
So for them to come and make a strategic investment
in a USL I think gave us a lot of credibility, legitimacy,
and I think it's signaled to the sports landscape that
(25:39):
we are, you know, that we have arrived, and so
having them stand beside us, I think has really helped
in terms of our brand awareness. And clearly we saw
that throughout this season.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's time to go over to Montana Folts and see
what she has to say about this.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
I know that MLB stepping in, I think that it's
just showing everybody that softball is being taken seriously on
all platforms. So I think just having the opportunity and
just kind of like a nudge in the right direction,
I think is huge for our sport.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And there are going to be two new teams for
twenty twenty six, so there's going to be six teams
I guess then all together the six total yep. Yeah,
which when we look again at the PWHL, you could
tell one of my favorite leagues are. I think six
is a really nice number. I think four is maybe
you get.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
To the place.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Okay, this is feeling a little small, but six is
a great place to be and I feel like it's
a good jumping point to then quickly hopefully get.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
To eight exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So we just had, as we said at the top,
the expansion draft earlier this month, allocation draft. So those
teams are getting set and we're really excited to see
what's heading up in this next twenty twenty six season.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yes, so that is the long and winding history and
road of softball. We're going to take a quick break
here and then get into a little bit more conversation
from our guests, but also get into the numbers, the data,
the brand involvement of it all in the second half
of the pod.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
All Right, at this point, I think y'all know I
love a little data sash or data sesh depending on
who you are and.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
What do you like to say.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And I feel like it's so important because again, it
feels like it anchors the conversation. It showcases where things
can go, and it also showcases where each of these
leagues and where each of these sports are at I
think in terms of their maturity, and softball is very
interesting because when we're looking at the college side versus AUSL,
(27:35):
they're at very different points of maturity, and I would
say a college quite mature AUSL mature ring. Maybe college
is a college student and AUSL is almost like the
preteen I would say in terms of its development.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
If you think that's.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Fair low, Well, I think that makes sense as the
awareness goes up, and I think they'll take advantage of
that college fan and really figure out how to convert them.
But I like that comp of the timeline. I think
that works.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Well.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Okay, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So let's start off them with ESPN because I think
that was such a big thing that you brought up
at the beginning. Let's talk about where AUSL is at
as it comes to their media rights deal, which is
notably with still ESPN. So ESPN was like, yeah, we
made the bet on College, We're going to make the
bet On Pro two.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I think it was such a smart move to do that.
So if we look at the AUSL Championship, the inaugural championship,
it averaged two hundred and thirty thousand viewers on ESPN.
I will say I was at that championship game with
two of our social team girlies, Jason Jess. There's a
huge rain delay in that gamesset. It was massive, it
was crazy. We were in the press box like just
trying to get through it and taking it all in.
(28:39):
So before the rain delay, there were three Inchard forty
seven thousand viewers, So just want to make that distinction.
There was a rain delay in there, but those numbers,
both of them are still lower than the numbers was
at the top for the Woman's College World Series.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Context is key in both of those, in the rain
delay and in college, and that's why Ausl is still preteen,
still growing into where she's gonna end up going for
the complete season for Ausl across ESPN, ESPN two and
ESPN U which is their university basically channel, viewership jumped
eighty eight percent last year, but it's still south of
(29:14):
one hundred and fifty thousand viewers. One thing too, you know,
there's ESPN that most people, if you have a sports package,
you have access to.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
ESPN two is a little.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Bit harder to get access to, depending on the package
cable package that you have, and then ESPN U is
generally one that you do have to have a subscription
for and you're like die hard ESPN And so sometimes
it's great when sports or women's sports are on those
ESPN new channels because at least there's distribution, but then
in other times you are really whittling down the field
(29:44):
to people who are either obsessed with sports or who
are obsessed with softball that are willing to pay it.
And then the discovery that men's sports in years past
had the very much massive opportunity to take advantage of
women's sports is getting less of that opportunity with the
rise and streaming.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, I really like that distinction. It's not like you
can flip around and just land on ESPN you randomly,
like you have to go out seek it out. So
I think that's important. So to that point, AOSL has
a three year Meteorites deal with ESPN that was just announced,
so it begins this coming season in twenty twenty six.
They're going to carry fifty exclusive AOSL games, and I
think the most exciting part for me is part of
(30:21):
that includes a game that will be broadcast on ABC.
So the first I remember the first Woman's College Softball
World Series on ABC, it was like it's on your TV.
It's just there now, it's happening consistently, like you can
jump right to it. So I think to have an
AUSL game, it's going to be the first pro softball
game on broadcast TV in the US. It's a huge moment.
And to see that longevity with the ESPN, I know
they're going to produce it and do a great job
(30:42):
with it too.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
And the product is so good, like the AUSL product
is fantastic that without a doubt, if people stumble upon
it or actively go to watch it, they're gonna be like,
holy shit, these athletes are amazing, and they're going to
fall in love and want to keep watching it. I
do want to bring in a comparison for softball all
we don't really have too much to compare to because
(31:04):
AUSL in the format that it is now is quite new.
So I feel like lore looking at Unrivaled or looking
at NWSL and their year ones could potentially be good here.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, definitely. So if we look at those numbers, the
Unrivaled season average one hundred eighty six thousand viewers on
TNT and True TV, so again those are it's accessible.
T ANDT is pretty accessible, while the NWSL average one
hundred and seventy five thousand viewers in the first year
of its media deal in twenty twenty four, So those
they're in the neighborhood of that one hundred and fifty
(31:36):
thousand mark the AOSL set, but lower still for AUSL,
which is great to me.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
The TLDR and that is they're all in the mix.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Like AUSL is in the mix, Unrivaled is in the mix,
and I think that that's a fantastic place to start.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I also have really enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Seeing how AUSL has really focused on not only the
investor side of things. Lor they've really brought on those
strategic investors like MLB, like those prior athletes, really smart
people in this space. But they've been really intentional with
their brand involvement as well, and I think that it's
only going to get bigger as we head into twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
There are some.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Really big names associated with the league. I think the
biggest one is Sephora. We saw Sephora get involved with
the Golden State Valkyries. We're seeing them get involved with
the Golden.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
State Warriors now.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
We saw them featured on Running Point on Netflix, which
I thought.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Was so fun.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And generally they've come in as a team partner, but
seeing them come in as an exclusive beauty partner for
the entire league, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And I think that that.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Also is a indicator to other brands of if a
massive brand like this is getting involved with AUSL, I
should probably take a call and understand how I could
get involved.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Too, definitely, and Sephora is just one of them. Goodie
was also a massive partner. They activated at the championship.
They had a brating booth where you could get your
hair done and get it style. And when you say
intentional spots, softball is so cool because you can I
guess you could do this in a lot of different sports,
but you can really express yourself, like, yes, Pitcher hair
was a thing growing up and it was like, oh,
how'd your braids go? And I had my distinct look.
(33:12):
People have ribbons like watching it growing up. These pictures
had full beats while they were pitching. And I don't
know how their foundation stayed through seven things, most likely,
but it is really intentional and it's catering to the audience.
Part of that too is Rebel Girls, which is a
media company based for the younger generation. They're a sponsor
of AUSL two and a massive partner, So it's really
(33:34):
really intentional and it feels authentic to the fans.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Then I like this intentionality because a lot of the
softball fans right now it is young girls lore, and
it is people who have played softball before that are
championing the sport that are then bringing in people like
me who hopefully then I'm bringing in other people like that,
and I think it will just be really interesting to
see what this fandom journey is like. We have a
(33:58):
couple more minute before the end of our podcast. Where
do you see softball going over the next I don't know,
two to five years.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah, I am really excited about the space. I think
before AUSL I would be kind of hesitant and I
would feel uncomfortable about there. But knowing what AUSL is doing,
I think there's just so much possibility. I think the
challenge right now is it's really successful in softball markets.
So Oklahoma City, Illinois, as you mentioned Alabama, those are
(34:32):
softball havens. They love it, they eat it up. Whereas
I'm in the Northeast and my friends that I played
softball with our fans, But I don't know if it's
extending exactly there. So I think it needs to grow
to the coast. It's softball's massive on the West coast,
tough California as a haven for softball, But I think
just expanding that fandom into places where there hasn't been
that consistent Team New England Riptide folded when I was younger,
(34:53):
so to bring that back and really spread it out
across the country will be part of this. I think
if we look at the LA twenty twenty Olympics, that
is a massive, massive opportunity. The international competition is so exciting.
Softball is coming back, but part of that is it
won't be played in LA. So it's going to be
played in Oklahoma City, so it's how do we show up?
How does the sport still stay top of mind when
(35:14):
it's not played in LA. So I'm really excited. I
think AUSL is they're changing the game. I got to
go there and see the people working behind it and
just the players and how much it's been an opportunity
for them to play domestically. So there's these challenges I foresee,
but I just think there's so much opportunity and to
have AUSL as the focal point is huge.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I love those comments. I think that they're very astute
and insightful. Let's hear from softball super fan Marga, who
has a big vision of what's to come.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
I'm picturing like an MLB stadium tour for these for
this league, where like there they can play at these venues,
you know, kind of like how some of the w
teams have played at their NBA venues. PTERHL are playing
up to the bigger van. So like I hope, yeah,
with the momentum that the league has now, the support
(36:05):
and yeah, the leadership that they have that they're pretty
established at that point where they can like sell out
an MLB stadium, they can play in them regularly. So
maybe maybe we're up to like ten or twelve teams
and then we could get into like a conference like
Eastern Western Conference type thing. Then it just opens up
so many more opportunities for girls to play. Which again,
(36:27):
like two I said at the beginning, like once you're
done college, like that was it, that was the end,
But now like there is more to look forward to.
There are so so many good players, and yeah, then
they'll have this opportunity to play. So yeah, I learn.
I hope we get to go to like an MLB
stadium tour for the AUSL.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And five years. Let's look again to see what Kim
Ang has to say about the next few years or
five years, rather.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Five years from now I hoped. I hope we've gone
through another round of expansion. We are going to keep
building our foundation and strengthening this so that we are
self sustaining league for forever. You know, this is how
you do it, and we're going to make sure that
it's done right.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I think that's a great way to end today's podcast.
Thank you all so much for tuning in to the
gist of pro women's softball with us.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
We'll be back in your feed with another edition of
She's Not Next, She's Now next Monday. In the meantime,
we'd love for you to rate, review, subscribe, share this
podcast with your softball friend, share it with everyone. We
want everyone in the softball space.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
This episode was edited by Savannah Hold and produced by
Lauren Tuscala.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Again, I'm Ellen Hyslop.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And I'm Lauren, and we will chat with you again
next week. And alished as English as.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
E A.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Speaking as.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
A speak at a ste
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