April 1, 2025 • 45 mins
Casey Lynch, National Managing Partner at Tyson Mendes, joins us to demystify personal branding and networking with refreshing honesty and tactical wisdom. From building a firm of 40 to over 250 attorneys, Casey shares how defining your values lays the foundation for authentic leadership, meaningful relationships, and self-advocacy. We tackle networking myths, introvert-friendly strategies, rejection resilience, and the realities women face in leadership—plus insights on perfectionism, control, and growth. Whether you’re early in your career or scaling up, this episode is packed with gems to level up your professional presence.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mila (00:00):
Networking is important, no matter what profession you're
in.
Cayce (00:04):
You've got to define who you want to be and what your
brand to be and your values area great place to start.
I mean, my values areauthenticity and faith.
Ilona (00:11):
If someone walks into a room where people are mingling,
having drinks and talking, howdo you just pop into their
conversation, into their circleand become part of it?
Cayce (00:21):
You're a thought leader.
You're sharing the informationand you're sharing what.
You're an expert in.
Ilona (00:25):
It also comes down to loving yourself.
What other people do willmatter less, because you know
what you're worth.
Cayce (00:32):
How someone treats your response to you says more about
them than it ever does about you.
Ilona (00:36):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and the law is always in style.
I'm Alona Antonian, a trialattorney and a certified family
law specialist.
Mila (00:47):
And I'm Mila Erutunian, a trial attorney who specializes
in employment and personalinjury law.
We are lawyers, friends andyour guides to real-life legal
drama.
Ilona (00:57):
Each week, we're breaking down unforgettable cases,
sharing incredible personaljourneys and sharing what keeps
us motivated in our careers andpersonal lives.
Mila (01:07):
So, whether you're hustling to make your own dreams
happen or just here for a goodstory, settle in with your
favorite drink, because we'rebringing you wisdom, wit and a
whole lot of style.
Ilona (01:19):
It's law, it's life, it's the glamorous crowd welcome
back.
Mila (01:32):
Today we're going to focus on how to build an authentic
personal brand, how networkingplays into career success and
the challenges that come with itto help us do this.
Ilona (01:42):
We have a fabulous guest joining us Casey E Lynch, the
National Managing Partner atTyson Mendes.
Mila (01:50):
Casey has played a huge role in shaping the firm's
strategic vision, all whilefostering a culture that's all
about people and results.
She's the mastermind behindsome amazing initiatives at her
firm that we are excited to askher about, and she's not just a
leader in the legal world.
Ilona (02:07):
She's someone who understands the power of
personal branding and networking, which is something that
applies to everyone, no matteryour industry and whether you're
an introvert or extrovert.
So let's get into it.
Mila (02:18):
So, casey, thank you so much for joining us today.
We're so excited to have you.
I'm honored to be here.
Thanks for inviting me.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Cayce (02:27):
I am the national managing partner at Tyson Mendez
.
We are a defense firm.
It has been really, really coolto be part of a law firm that's
been growing ever since Ijoined.
When you started the firm, howmany employees did it have?
I think we had about 40attorneys at the time.
And what about now?
Ilona (02:46):
A little over 250.
Since you're managing the firm,what did you do personally to
help it grow?
Cayce (02:51):
Our leadership needed more hands-on support, I think,
and so they looked around thefirm, and I'm so grateful for
this.
They looked around the firminstead of hiring externally to
say, who do we have that'scapable and willing to work hard
and believes in this businessthat can help us, and so they
brought opportunities to me asthey came up.
Mila (03:12):
So one of the reasons why I really wanted you on our show
and obviously you're an amazingperson all around, really you
are.
I love following you.
I was just saying we haven'tseen each other in 10 years, but
the great thing about socialmedia is I feel like I haven't
missed out on any part of yourlife.
I remember you getting married,having kids, and you probably
(03:32):
saw me have all my kids too.
But you're just like a femalepowerhouse from where I stand,
and what is special about you tome is that there are a lot of
powerful women, but a lot ofwomen who reach a certain level
of power kind of harden a littlebit, and you… Harden in what
(03:59):
way, though?
I'm hardened in a way that,like I mean, we are attacked a
lot and you have to build like avery tough exterior to fight
that off, to make sure you canmaintain your position.
But what Casey's done and Ihaven't been able to do it,
honestly is like you'vemaintained your authenticity.
You've stayed authentic,genuine, kind and like sweet.
(04:28):
You like you haven't become youknow, so like.
I want to talk to you aboutyour personal branding and how
you've been able to keepauthenticity in your brand, for
me, it started with defining myvalues.
Cayce (04:38):
Brene Brown wrote a book, daring to Lead, and in it it
has an exercise on how to defineyour values and one of the big
questions is are they personalvalues or professional values?
And it's like no, no, yourvalues should be the same in all
aspects of your life.
And went through an exercise.
I wrote down on paper all thesedifferent values and she says
(05:01):
you can have two, you can't have12.
If you have 12, then thatreally doesn't give you a
compass, right?
You need to define it downtown,really specifically.
I went through the exercise andI defined my values and they are
authenticity and faith, and Idraw upon that when I'm
(05:23):
wondering which direction to goin branding for our organization
or branding for myself.
It's something I draw upon intimes of stress and anxiety,
like I mentioned, and I thinkthat's really helped.
So, as a first step for puttingyourself out there, I think
you've got to define who youwant to be and what your brand
to be, and your values are agreat place to start.
(05:45):
I mean any big organization youknow that's branded in the
world.
You know there was a teambehind it that thought about the
purpose behind the branding, soyou really need to think about
your purpose for yourself.
Mila (05:55):
I always say that I think branding and networking is
important, no matter whatprofession you're in.
I mean, a lot of people seelawyers and they're like, oh,
you should sit there, keep yourhead down and build your hours.
And lawyers do do that and theydon't really grow and build and
develop their brand and theydon't go after finding new
clients.
Ilona (06:14):
At my firm I have people who like to go to social events
network and they enjoy beingaround people.
They can come up to anyone andtalk to them and love mingling.
And then there are those thatdo not feel comfortable just
coming up to someone or goingalone or with just with another
person to an event and brandingthemselves.
They'd rather attend a firmevent or just go home or work on
(06:37):
something.
It's not their thing.
So can you really force that ifthey don't enjoy it?
I don't think so.
Mila (06:44):
Well, my thought is I think that the people who don't
like to socialize, who don'tlike to talk, are actually way
better at networking, becausepeople love to hear themselves
talk.
And someone like you or I, wholike go in and just like talk to
someone's ear off, could beannoying as hell, but someone
who goes in, asks the questionand listens to the other person
(07:05):
speak is going to leave way moreof an impression.
So I always encourageintroverts to get themselves out
there.
Maybe it's uncomfortable atfirst, but they don't have to
talk.
And I just think that, honestly, closed mouths don't get fed.
If you don't brand yourself, ifyou don't advocate for yourself
, whether a man or a woman,you're not going to get what you
(07:29):
don't ask for.
Ilona (07:30):
We have a saying in Russian, and I think there may
be one in English as well right,the squeaky wheel gets the
grease, Is there right?
Cayce (07:38):
I am the introvert and I was speaking with my business
development director justyesterday because I have a
couple of weeks of travel comingup and I said, okay, I need the
pep talk.
Tell me how I walk into theserooms with people I don't know.
And in one situation, maybethis could help listeners,
because the one thing that'seasiest for me is if I'm hosting
(08:01):
the event.
So if it's my company's eventthat I'm going to, then I feel
like it's my wedding andeveryone's there to see us.
That's why they came so to walkup and for the icebreaker to be
.
Thank you so much for coming,introduce yourself and welcome
and play host.
That's so much more comfortableto me as opposed to going to an
(08:21):
industry event with a cocktailhour with 300 people in a huge
ballroom Like whew, that is notmy cup of tea, but I do it as
part of my job and I totallyagree with you, amelia, that it
is the art of asking questions.
That's what I try to lean on,because I don't really know what
to say.
So it's what questions can Iask that are meaningful
(08:45):
questions, not just prettycloudy out there today?
to get some people to open upand and to get to know them a
little bit, and my businessdevelopment director has coached
me a lot on, you know,questions that I can use and
(09:05):
ways I can enter thoseconversations to try to feel
more comfortable.
So what are those questions?
Oh, I get no credit for any ofthis.
Okay, jordan Reese gets allcredit for this.
If you're joining a session at aconference or you're joining
someone at a breakfast table isto sit down, and her trick is
(09:29):
don't let conversation lull,because if you sit down and you
start and you just you know,look at your phone and then you
want to look up and starttalking and a group is already
talking around you, it's reallyhard to insert yourself.
So insert yourself, inviteyourself from the moment you sit
down to join the conversationand don't leave it.
Because to be the outsider andleave and have to come back or
(09:50):
try to come in middle of theconversation is even more
difficult.
And to just start by listeningto what they're talking about
and just pretend like you werethere the whole time and join in
or ask a question along thelines of how was breakfast this
morning or how have the sessionsbeen so far, where are you in
from?
(10:10):
And as you're introducingyourself.
Oh, this is my favorite one.
Her trick is, when they askwhat you do, to say do you want
the short version or the longversion?
You did that today with us Goodword, short version or long
version and it kind of most ofthe time people will give you
permission to give the longerversion in an introduction of
yourself, because you're notpressed for time, and so then
(10:33):
you can say five sentences aboutit instead of just your title.
And then, when you reciprocate,you also give them permission
to say more than just theirtitle, five sentences about
their title, and you get to knowa little bit more about each
other.
Ilona (10:47):
I think I'm going to use that one, because when people
ask me to talk about myself, Ihave this long, long story and
I'm like am I saying too much ornot?
Cayce (10:54):
I think Well and it provides an opening.
So after you say that, then go,then then put it back on them
and I'm like what's your longstory and what's your long story
?
And then you get.
You really, hopefully will havesome points of commonality.
You can, you can launch from.
If someone walks into a roomwhere people are mingling,
(11:22):
having drinks and talking, andthey're in groups with those
whom they know how do you justpop into their conversation,
into their circle and becomepart of it?
I'm not good at that, I am sohere's my answer.
Ilona (11:26):
Ok, please, I just come.
That I am.
So here's my answer.
Okay, please, I just come in,I'll have a drink in my hand and
I'll stand there for a minuteif they're in the middle of
conversation and then I'llintroduce myself.
Hi, I'm Alona.
You know what's your name?
That's how it gets started, andthen people will start talking.
Those who are not interestedwill leave the group and those
who want to talk to me will talkto me and you go from there.
Mila (11:46):
Here's kind of how I see it is.
I don't know, I was not alwaysan extrovert.
I feel like it was not innatefor me.
I had to really build that inmyself because I was so hungry,
like I was so hungry to win.
But I am not comfortable doingthat.
I have to amp myself up.
But what I always remind myselfis, and what I always tell my
(12:09):
mentees, because I've had a lotof them I have one quote and
I'll tell you the same thing Goafter what you want.
No pride, no shame, becausewhat is the worst that can
happen?
We always think oh, they'regoing to think this of us,
they're going to think that ofus.
We are not that important.
No one will remember.
They may judge us in the momentand then they'll forget about
it and it doesn't matter.
(12:29):
Worst case scenario like youdon't get form a connection.
Best case scenario you form aconnection and have this great
new contact.
I agree.
Ilona (12:38):
Kind of along the same lines what you said.
My motor is like what do I haveto lose?
Okay, somebody doesn't want totalk to me, so what, I may never
see them again.
They ignore me.
Who cares?
Mila (12:49):
I'll go on and talk to someone else or you're not going
to be everyone's cup of tea.
I had a guy on Facebook theother day like someone.
I had everyone on Facebookbecause I use it for like social
networking and all of the stuffI don't really post a lot of
kids on there, so I add whoeveradds me.
And this guy added me and thenleaves a comment on one of my
videos.
He literally says you nauseateme Really, you make me so sick
(13:15):
that I have to block you.
And then he said my teeth givehim nightmares, oh my God.
And it took me like a second.
I was like wow, like imagine,here I am spreading positivity
and love and you're really sadand you're and you're sold that
you hate me this much fornothing.
You don't even know me.
(13:35):
Why do you want to follow youif he hates you?
But then he blocked me so Icouldn't.
I wanted to save the comment toher, like, be okay, remind me
how.
It was kind of humbling andkind of.
I kind of need that shock valuesometimes.
Cayce (13:49):
I don't have trolls.
Let me say this I don't havetrolls online.
That's another layer.
So are you no more nice thanyou are?
The other thing that I've hadto come to terms with on the
fear, like what's the worst,that you that would happen.
I think I feel back to mymiddle school years where, like
(14:10):
I could go sit at a table andkids would like scoot away from
me or like just I was not superpopular as a little kid and like
elementary school was difficult, middle school was difficult
and then high school started tolike.
I kind of came into my own alittle more.
But this fear of rejection andnot being accepted, I think
(14:31):
that's where it truly like comesfrom, and it's like you're a
grown ass woman.
Mila (14:36):
Get it together.
Cayce (14:38):
Get it together.
That's what it comes from andit's just like.
So what if they walk away?
First of all, they won't.
People don't do that as adults.
That does not happen withstrangers at a conference.
Mila (14:48):
I've never seen it.
I've never experienced it, andmost people enjoy having
authentic conversations.
Exactly.
Cayce (14:54):
The other thing you can do if you don't want to go up to
a full group of people is findsomeone on the outskirts who's a
loner, because they might havea similar personality as you and
walk up and just have aone-on-one and you could also
just be like hey, I'm going togo get a drink at the bar, do
you want?
Mila (15:08):
to walk.
You guys want to know my thingthat I always do.
I always find something I cancompliment, like if it's shoes.
I can't do fake compliments,but it's not fake.
I find something I really like,like hey, I love your shoes,
nice shoes.
I'm Mila, but like you know,everyone's different.
Some people are like veryawkward, like why is this person
complimenting?
And obviously it's different ifit's like a grown man.
Ilona (15:31):
I can't really compliment like that you can always look
at their watch and belts andshoes.
Mila (15:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's just a way to like get that icebreaker
and then after that it's mucheasier to engage in conversation
did you ever have a situationwhere you're like, hey, I like
your shoes and okay, great seeyou later.
Yeah, sometimes people areawkward about it, like not
everyone wants to chat with me,and again at that of the day
it's like okay, not everyone hasto like me, that's okay, what?
(15:57):
That's the worst thing that canhappen.
I mean, this man leaves me anasty comment on my facebook and
then blocks me and deletes it.
I'm so sorry about that, butit's like, okay, worst thing
that can happen.
He doesn't like me and I alwayssay this to my kids.
I say this to everyone people'sactions towards you is more of
a reflection of them and whatthey're going through at any
given time than it is of you soyou can't take that.
Ilona (16:18):
I guess we're all grown up now, but it feels the same as
you're on a playground andyou're trying to make new
friends.
Cayce (16:24):
It does sometimes.
Ilona (16:26):
And same thing.
Children grow up and some willinteract with you and be nice
and some won't.
So just part of life and itdoesn't change as you grow from
being a child to becoming anadult, I know so.
Mila (16:39):
True, when you're a kid all that stuff is so
traumatizing it like sticks withyou.
I bet you guys have likespecific memories.
I have specific memories oflike being rejected or made fun
of that.
Ilona (16:49):
I'm sure everyone has.
Today I was doing myfive-year-old hair and she's
like mommy, don't do thishairstyle.
Because when you did braidshere the other day and you
connected them, I was made funof on a playground and I thought
her hair looked so cute, butshe was sad that they were
making fun of her.
So, on one hand, why would theydo that?
(17:09):
But on another hand, it's goodbecause she'll learn through
this experience and it's thesame as being rejected and
learning how to be tough and notgive a shit.
Mila (17:22):
So funny story on that, because my son and I know we
talked about piano.
You said you put Ella in piano.
She didn't like it and youdidn't force her to keep going.
I forced Daniel to keep goingand now his teacher invited him
to do a concert and he comeshome he's like obviously I'm not
doing it, mom, I'm like I'msorry, who told you you have a
choice?
Like I'm sorry, who told youyou have a choice, you are doing
(17:42):
it?
And he just refused.
He couldn't eat dinner, hecouldn't sleep all night.
He was like what, if everyonelaughs at me, I'm like then
they'll laugh at you.
But if you're prepared, there'sno reason you will fail In this
family.
When hard things come, we don'trun from them, we run towards
them and we prepare and we go atit.
And then I was like okay, maybeI'm being a little harsh.
(18:03):
So then, like one night beforebed, he likes it when I like
brush his hair back.
And I was like sitting there, Iwas like you know, I don't
expect you to do perfect, right?
And he was just like what?
I'm like yeah, you can go upthere and like suck, like as
long as you prepare, and that'syour best.
And if your best sucks, I'llstill be proud of you.
But if you don't try, and ifyou're like so scared of being
(18:26):
rejected that you're just notgoing to try at all, then I'll
see you as a failure and I willnot be proud of you.
I'll be super disappointed.
And so after that it likeclicked, and ever since then he
doesn't even try to like talk meout of it.
He's like yeah, I'm doing theconcert.
Cayce (18:44):
I see it in my four-year-old.
She gets so frustrated tryingto do a puzzle because she can't
do it perfectly immediately,and I see my little self in her
and I literally said to her thismorning you don't have to do it
perfect.
It takes time to stand up, walkaway, take a breath, come back
and you'll be able to finish it.
It's yeah, we've got to like.
I want to give her somepermission to just try really,
(19:04):
really hard and do our absolutebest and not feel like it has to
be perfect I think it alsocomes down to loving yourself,
right?
Ilona (19:12):
if you love yourself, then what other people do will
matter less, because you knowyou're.
It doesn't take away from whoyou are and what you're worth.
They just don't know who youare, and if they don't care to
appreciate or learn about you,let it be it.
Cayce (19:29):
You know that's it.
That's what you said beforethat how someone treats your
response to you says more aboutthem than it ever does about you
.
Ilona (19:35):
Yeah, as it relates to us as adults and branding yourself
and going to events.
It's just having the confidencethat you love yourself and it
doesn't matter.
That event should not changeyour self-perception or your
self-confidence.
I mean, it can take a stab atit, right?
(19:56):
Nobody likes being ignored ornobody likes feeling they don't
matter or they're not important.
But ultimately, if you focus onbetter things you have in life
when you leave that event and begrateful for other people that
love you and having a home and aroof over your head and all the
(20:18):
other great things, then thatwill just be a little part that
will be gone in the past.
Mila (20:23):
Well, the thing is in everything in life, right, you
cannot succeed until you failLike.
You cannot just not try when itcomes to anything.
And that goes back to the wholething of like.
I think, no matter whatprofession you're in, you need
to brand yourself, you need topromote yourself, and a lot of
people especially women, I thinkmore than men it's
(20:44):
uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable to advocatefor yourself and tell everyone
I'm so great, this is everythingI've accomplished.
This is why I would be like agreat asset to whatever it is
that you're doing.
But you have to do that becauseif you don't, no one will know
your worth.
Who else is going to advocatefor you?
Ilona (21:02):
So how do you brand yourself?
What tools do you use?
Cayce (21:05):
So networking is a big one.
We've talked about that and Iwant to reframe networking for
just a minute because from myperspective, it's more about
relationship building thanfostering longer term
relationships with people.
It's very rare from my side ofthe bar and in my business to
walk up to someone cold a coldconversation at a networking
(21:29):
hour, for them to need exactlywhat I'm offering and for me to
be able to offer it.
And I walk out with a clientand I don't think I understood
that as a young lawyer.
That's not how it works.
You meet people, you stay intouch, you have lunch next time
you're in town.
You follow each other on socialmedia which I'll get into but
you learn to be able to likewhat are their pain points and
(21:50):
how can you help provide a value.
And so for me it's developingthose relationships and it's a
long term play and I did notquite appreciate that when I
started networking.
So, along the lines of patience, it also takes time.
Social media has also been a bigone for our law firm and for me
(22:11):
personally.
After defining my values andknowing how I wanted to show up
online, I connected with acommunity of professionals who
are building their brand andpromoting their brands on
LinkedIn in particular.
Some of them use TikTok andInstagram and Facebook as well,
but it's primarily LinkedIn andmy group is it's called Catalyst
(22:35):
Community.
It's primarily for my side ofthe bar no-transcript then.
(23:05):
You're going to remember whatso-and-so said in this Facebook
post and so it's developingrelationships there too.
So this community has been.
I've been able to learn fromthem.
They're so much more advancedand further along in their
promotion online than I am, butthey've been really instrumental
in telling me what works andwhat doesn't and how you how you
(23:26):
frame going about having anonline presence.
Mila (23:29):
I think you've done great at building your online presence
and incorporating yourauthenticity into that presence,
because I've seen your postsand I mean I try to do the same
thing, but you post about everyaspect of life, not only
professionally and but you alsopost about, you know, building
yourself as a woman.
You post about being a mom lifenot only professionally, but
you also post about buildingyourself as a woman.
You post about being a mom,about being a wife, about your
faith, and I love thecombination of everything
(23:53):
because it does give people moreof a magnifying glass on you as
a human, and I read about thisa lot that most people want to
do business with a person, not abusiness.
Ilona (24:07):
That's what I was just about to say yes, because I
think people want to know whoare you and that builds trust
Over the years you'll meet a lotof people at many events and
social media and whatever, andit's really hard to keep in
touch with everyone and maintaina relationship, especially when
you have a family, when youhave a full-time job.
(24:30):
So how do you do this?
How do you actually haveauthentic relationships with
people that you meet?
Cayce (24:36):
One of the first things that I do is connect with
someone on LinkedIn so that I'llsee them in my feed and they
will see me in theirs.
It's what Amelia was sayingbefore that we haven't seen each
other in almost 10 years, itfeels like.
But we know what's going on ineach other's lives and maybe
that's much more superficialthan actually calling and having
phone conversations, but we'restill on each other's minds.
(24:57):
I think about you all the time.
So that's one Sending a thankyou email when you're done, like
after the event for the youknow five I had five really good
conversations I'm just going tosend a thank you email.
I got their card.
I'm going to send a thank youemail and stay in touch and then
I rely on my team from thatpoint and we know where this
person is based.
(25:17):
It goes into our system.
The next time I'm traveling toChicago and I have an opening
for lunch, it's like, okay, well, who are the people who are in
Chicago that I could invite out?
And my team houses the data andthey share with me.
So really good record keeping areally strong team to help me.
But you know, really startingthat foundation of making
(25:37):
proactively reach out to makethose connections right after
the first conversation.
Mila (25:41):
I do the same thing.
It's funny that you say youknow I get it every time.
It's like my process whenever Inetwork, I get everyone's cards
.
I send an email say it wasgreat to meet you.
Here's my contact info, let'sstay in touch.
Then I add them on LinkedIn andmy thing, like I'm always
posting on LinkedIn and I'vekind of put myself out there as
(26:01):
like I am the employment lawgirl and I'm always posting
about whenever an interestinglaw comes out.
I'm like let me make a video,Let me do this.
Or like a cool case that I do,let me make a video.
So then, when people haveemployment issues like every
single person on LinkedIn whohas an employment issue, I have
7,000 followers they think of mefirst because I'm always in
their face Annoying me whilewe're talking about employment
(26:25):
law.
But I mean that's kind of how,like, I've built my brand within
the community.
I mean, coming out of lawschool, I didn't know any
lawyers, I didn't know what Iwas doing.
I, you know, fell intoemployment law.
I really liked it.
It became my niche, myspecialty.
I did some PI at Tyson andMendez, but that's how I built
my brand, that's how I mademyself known and if I hadn't
(26:47):
done that, I wouldn't be knownand I probably would be making a
lot less money.
Cayce (26:52):
Well, that's so important is that you talk about what you
know, because we know a lotright and you've positioned
yourself so well, especiallywhen the updates come right,
because not every lawyer, notevery employer, not every
employee, god knows, isfollowing the law on what their
(27:13):
rights are now and what theprocess needs to be and what the
obligations are between anemployee and employer.
And you, coming on and doingthose videos, you're a thought
leader, you're sharing theinformation and you're sharing
what you're an expert in.
So, for people who want tostart having more of a presence,
talk about what you know, talkabout what you're passionate
about, what you're interested in, and it's infectious.
It'll be remembered.
Ilona (27:34):
We have some viewers who are either law students or want
to become a lawyer one day.
From your personal experience,what does it take to start from
being a new associate at a firmto get to where you are today?
Cayce (27:50):
Patience, I think, is the first thing, because when you
look back now you think, in thegrand scheme of life, 12 years,
wow, you've come a really,really long way and I believe
that I have and I'm super proudof what I've accomplished.
I have and I'm super proud ofwhat I've accomplished.
At the same time, looking backbeing 26, 27, 28 years old 12
(28:10):
years felt like so far away andI just wanted, I wanted the
success now, I wanted thefinancial stability now, I
wanted the opportunity now and Icertainly got it and I got it
very quickly.
Looking back, but in the momentit's just so hard to stay in
the grind.
Stick with the work, eventhough it's hard, see it through
(28:30):
completion and then take on thenext opportunity right, and you
just want the bigger titleright now.
So it takes time and that'swhat Bob Tyson, the founder of
(28:50):
our firm, shared with me when Iwas really young is that the
opportunity is going to come.
You just need to be patient andkeep working really hard, and I
did, and it's true, and I wantto pass on that advice to the
next generation.
Ilona (28:58):
What's an expectation from new attorneys in terms of
billable hours and the work theygot to put in for at least the
first two years, while they gettheir feet wet and understand
how it all works?
Cayce (29:09):
I think it's important to keep in mind that you've joined
a profession and when you putin the hours, regardless of what
the requirements are, you'reinvesting in yourself because
you're learning your professionand you're getting better and
you're growing.
And it often takes an hour ortwo more than your billable
requirement in order to get thebillable requirement.
(29:31):
So let's say you have aneight-hour day requirement, you
probably need to work 10 hours aday.
Ilona (29:36):
I love what you've said about you're investing in
yourself because it is part oftraining and learning, because
their work product initiallywill not be as good as the
partner level or a seniorattorney who may know an answer
right away and may take a newattorney, you know half an hour
to two hours to find out how todo something.
Mila (29:55):
So I have an interesting perspective because Casey and I
worked together back when I wasstarting off as an associate.
I think I started with TysonAmenders my second year out of
law school.
It was my second job and Ialready had one baby, so I kind
of was transitioning into beinga mom and a lawyer at the same
time and I remember Casey workedreally, really hard and I was
(30:16):
actually there when she wasnamed partner and I remember
your speech like it wasyesterday.
I really do Really.
Cayce (30:22):
What did I say?
Mila (30:24):
And it was like really like heartwarming to me, because
I remember just thinking likethis is the dream, and
especially coming from, you know, russia, where I don't know I
don't want to say there aren't alot of opportunities but there
aren't as many opportunities andseeing a young woman be named a
partner at a firm.
I mean I saw how hard sheworked.
(30:46):
She would come in early, shewould leave late, sometimes she
wouldn't leave, always working,always hustling, and you were
from where I stood.
You were an imperative part ofthe firm's growth.
After the Howell case, tysonand Mendez won a really big case
, the Howell case, and you wantto talk a little bit about that
(31:06):
kind of what that case entailedthe long version or the short
version the short version in2011,.
Cayce (31:20):
and the case held that injured plaintiffs are able to
recover what their healthinsurance pays for their medical
bills in their personal injurycase.
And we all have looked atmedical bills in the past, right
?
So you'll see very often on amedical bill that a provider
will charge $1,000, but thehealth insurance actually pays
(31:42):
maybe $250 at the end of the dayto resolve the medical claim.
Those are contractuallynegotiated rates between the
doctor and the health insurancecompany.
The Howell case held that it'sthe $250 amount, what's actually
incurred, what's actually paidin full satisfaction of those
bills.
That's what the plaintiffsallowed to recover in a personal
injury suit and the law, ofcourse, has evolved so much in
(32:06):
the 14 years since that case.
But it was a very big deal forthe defense industry, for the
insurance industry in Californiaand in a traditionally very
liberal, plaintiff-friendlystate.
Ilona (32:18):
I remember when that case came out.
I actually practiced personalinjury at that time and the last
trial I did was in 2013 or 2014.
It was a medical malpracticecase and you know how a case was
.
It came into play, obviously,when it came to medical bills.
Mila (32:34):
So that was Tyson Mendez.
And then after that, you know,obviously a lot of you know
insurance companies wanted TysonMendez to represent them and
that happened in 2011.
Casey came in in 2012.
And they kind of really put youkind of front facing with all
the clients.
I remember which is also whyyou added so much value, because
(32:54):
not everyone can do that andyou were able to balance a lot
at the time.
You were still, you know,practicing as well, so you were
doing that and you were doingthat and you were doing the
client facing stuff, bringing incases, just like hustling on
all ends.
And I remember, when they madeyou partner because we they had
just exploded and you were ableto manage all of that.
(33:17):
And you said, you know, theseguys say that like we believe in
you and we'll help you grow,and they really mean it.
And I remember, like with tearsin your eyes, you said that I
remember your exact speech, ifyou can believe it, because it
had such an impact on me,because I like to me.
At the time, my thought wasokay, you work hard, you will
(33:39):
accomplish it no matter what,and so, from my perspective, I
really think that you have a lotof really great qualities your
ability to manage a lot ofthings at once.
I think your standard hasalways been excellence, from
everything I've seen, and youdon't really settle for anything
below that, and, frankly, Ithink that's what any person who
(34:02):
achieves great things reallyhas.
Those are all attributes, sofirst of all.
Cayce (34:06):
That just like warms my heart so much, thank you.
I'm like trying not to tear up,so thank you, I'm so glad and I
do believe that.
I do believe that if you workreally, really hard and you
promote yourself and you ask forit, right, it's not being
working really hard and beingmeek in the corner and if that
fits your personality and that'syour style, fine.
(34:27):
It was was not mine, is notmine.
Um, I am a recoveringperfectionist and there's been a
lot of.
So at the beginning, when I'mpersonally in charge of doing
every little thing, it waseasier to perform in that way
because I had personalresponsibility for every single
little thing, and I still havepersonal.
But it's on a much larger scaleand I cannot that one human
(34:50):
could not possibly run anorganization of this size.
So it's first trust in my teamand that's developed over time.
Mila (34:57):
And having a team you can trust.
Cayce (34:59):
Yes, yes, having a team you can trust, and I have a lot
of tenure in my with my directreports, and so that's.
It's a it really is a blessingand a luxury that not everyone
has in today's market.
At the same time, there comes apoint where you have to realize
that excellence is what youneed to be forcing and focusing
(35:22):
on, not perfection, and thatsometimes done is better than
perfect.
And so, looking at a workproduct that someone will do now
I might have done it different,I might have said it a little
different, but before I even goto make changes, it's is what
they've said wrong.
No, it's not.
So it's okay.
You know, in in reviewingwritten work product, it's okay
(35:45):
to stick to the standard ofexcellence.
Let people keep their voice.
It's not it's not all about mecontrolling every little thing.
It's and it's I.
In moments of really highanxiety, I want to control and
I'm so lucky, particularly oneteam member will look at me and
just be like we got this, andit's like she knows that that's
the language she needs to usewith me, to just tell me like,
(36:07):
take a breath, you can trust us,we got this, and it's like she
knows that that's the languageshe needs to use with me to just
tell me, like, take a breath,you can trust us.
We got this and I know they do,but that's my tendency is to.
My coping mechanism is to goright back to the level of
perfection and control.
Mila (36:19):
You can't scale without letting go.
I mean unfortunately, Ilistened to all these podcasts
about growing businesses becauseI'm just a nerd, but that's one
of the main things that I'velearned like you have to let go,
Don't let perfection be theenemy of progress.
Ilona (36:37):
Oh, it's hard to do Like you can hear it all day long
Listen to the books and yourfriends can tell you that.
But when you care and you wantto win and you know your clients
are paying a lot of money andtheir life is in your hands,
it's hard to not court or yourmotions or whatever it is and
(37:15):
the settlement documents have tobe done to a T.
Cayce (37:16):
Of course I do not practice anymore in this role, I
just manage the organization,and so it is.
You know, does this PowerPointexplaining our benefits package,
you know, and that's?
I'm not saying that's lessimportant, it's very important.
That's our people's livelihood,that's our medical care.
But I have to, I hire a team ofexperts who know this stuff and
I need to let them operatewithin their sphere of expertise
(37:37):
.
And then someone told merecently and I just love it my
friend, michelle Rao, who'sactually a chief claims officer
in an insurance company, saidit's her job as the leader to
drive the bulldozer, to get allof the obstacles out of your
team members' way.
And I'm like, ooh, I want tolearn to be a bulldozer driver.
Mila (37:56):
So I know you said one of your passion projects is issues
in women's leadership, so tellus a little bit about that.
Cayce (38:04):
Women come out of law school at rates, I think, higher
than men these days.
I think we've edged them out.
Finally, I think we're comingout at over 50%.
And then the femalerepresentation drops off in
private practice at that pointand then as you move up through
leadership levels in law firms,you see it drop even more and
(38:27):
more, and so a firm like yoursis super, super special in this
industry because of the positionyou've empowered women to take
and you've taken for yourselfand the platform you've made for
others.
And so I just very cognizant ofthe role that I play in the
(38:50):
industry, but also, hopefully,for other women, kind of like
you mentioned Amelia, justremembering a speech that I gave
, because I remember my mentorsand the women that I always
looked up to giving a speech,and that's what we want to do is
leave the profession betterthan we found it.
So I'm cognizant of thedrop-off rates for women as they
(39:10):
move through leadership.
I want to be advocates forwomen, to brand themselves, to
speak up for themselves, to seekout and take opportunities when
they arise.
Do your very best work, put outexcellent work, product, be the
best.
You can be, as cheesy as thatmay sound.
You can be as cheesy as thatmay sound.
So that's, yeah, I guess that'smy position on on women in
(39:36):
leadership, just kind of mymindset of being cognizant of
the role that I play and usingmy platform to help others
succeed as well.
Ilona (39:39):
I think to be able to rise in the leadership role as a
woman, you have to put familyon hold for a while, because
otherwise you won't be able togive that time and work as hard
as you have or I have, and youwere able to do it with the kids
.
I think you started early inthose years.
Cayce (39:55):
What do you think about that?
I don't know if it's a must,but that was definitely my
choice and that brought otherchallenges right, because I had
my first child at 35.
And you know there are otherchallenges.
It takes on your body andyou're just older getting up in
the night than you are if you'rein your 20s.
(40:17):
And I have friends from highschool and college who had kids
right out of high school andright out of college and now
they're like teenagers.
It's wild.
So, yeah, there's a definitely.
I personally chose to hold onfinding my career.
I also hadn't met my husbandyet, so that helped right.
(40:37):
But yeah, so I was fortunate toand fortunate to find someone
at the point in life where wedid, where we were both ready
and we felt both of our careerscould support it.
Ilona (40:50):
Yes, that's a good point you make.
I mean same thing with me.
I didn't find anybody tilllater, so I was focused on my
career and it probably wouldhave been regardless.
But for those who haven't foundthat special person to have a
family with a lot of women, whohave all these dreams to have a
family and a career and have itall but haven't found it look at
(41:14):
it as a blessing because itgives you an opportunity to
focus on your career and move upin a leadership role, if that's
what you want, or just be goodat what you do, so that you have
skills, a skill set that youcan use in the future and rely
on yourself down the road,whether alone or with someone
else.
Cayce (41:28):
I mean, it's something I always looked up to you about,
amelia, because I remember I canremember sitting in our
conference room and you and Ihaving a conversation about your
son and how old he was and howmany times he was up in the
night and you were just ready togo and I sit there thinking to
myself like I don't think Icould do that, I don't think I'm
cut out for that, and so therewas a long time where, for
(41:51):
several, several years, where Iwondered if I would ever become
a parent or if I wanted it,because I was so driven on the
career side of things.
Mila (41:59):
And then I think obviously I got a little older and I met
my husband and it was very clearto me that that's what I think
a lot of women feel that way,like they look at their lives as
they are, which, when you're alawyer, it's very busy, and
they're like how am I gonna adda husband and a child to this
crazy equation already?
And the thing is, you can like,when it comes, you can handle
it.
(42:19):
I want to give you guys alittle confession that I've
actually never told anyone.
This is a real thing and.
Cayce (42:25):
I'm like embarrassed.
Mila (42:27):
I'm embarrassed because now, looking back at it, like it
wasn't my most proud moment.
Granted, there were hormones.
I got married really young.
I was 21 and I started lawschool two days after I got
married and my husband is 10years older than me and it was
like an Armenian thing and youknow, like families.
But I got out of law school wehad been married like five years
(42:48):
and everyone was like yourhusband's ready to have children
, like he's waited because ofyou, like you need to get
started.
And you know, I think I was 24at the time I like finished law
school and I was like, okay,let's start trying, thinking
it's going to take years.
And I got pregnant right away.
Like I finished.
I passed the bar in November andI found out I was pregnant in
January and I was shocked and Ididn't expect that to happen,
(43:14):
which now, like I realize what ablessing it was because I
struggled so much to getpregnant with my second one.
But I remember coming into workthe very first day I'm like a
first year associate and I justfound out I'm pregnant two
months after I passed the barand I always was an early bird,
so it's like seven in themorning.
There was only one otherattorney there and he was like
in his own office and I remembersitting down at my desk and I
just started bawling.
(43:35):
I just started crying, nothappy bawling.
I was like really fuckingscared.
And the guy comes in and he waslike this little guy I remember
him so well And's like what isgoing on, and I just like broke
down to him Vlad doesn't evenknow this, my husband doesn't
even know this and I was likeI'm pregnant, like I'm never
gonna make it as a lawyer.
(43:55):
My whole career is ruined.
I can't believe I went to lawschool and now I'm gonna have
nothing because I'm gonna havethis baby.
And like how am I gonna do both?
I'm not.
So obviously I'm going to be agood lawyer because I'm going to
try and be a good mom.
And I remember it so wellbecause later I was so
embarrassed that I like did thisto this guy that I don't even
know.
He was like trying to trying tolike make me feel better, and
(44:20):
but he was just at a loss ofwords.
But that was my reaction andnow I'm so I've never admitted
this to anyone, never talkedabout it, because I was so
embarrassed that I like had thisblessing of being pregnant, and
that I just cried and was, likeyou know, cursing god for like
giving me this child, because Iwas so driven and I thought it
(44:41):
was going to destroy my career.
At the end of the day, though,it gave me fuel because it made
me want to.
I was like you.
You know what?
Fuck this.
I'll have both.
I'm just going to have thisbaby.
Ilona (44:51):
That's because you're, you, some people.
Cayce (44:53):
But also I think it's totally normal to be afraid and
question at that moment, becausewhere had it been modeled for
you?
Where had you seen someone intheir mid-20s, pregnant, just
out of law school, startingtheir job, succeed in both?
You're blazing a trail.
It was never modeled for you.
(45:13):
You had to go out and you choseto go out.
You were given the blessing,the opportunity to go out and be
the first one and do it in yourcircle, in your community.
It's huge.
Mila (45:24):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
This has been an amazingconversation.
It's been really fun.
Thanks for having me.
Ilona (45:31):
That brings us to the end of this episode of the
Glamorous Grind.
Thank you for spending timewith us today.
Mila (45:38):
We had a wonderful time hearing Casey's insights, and we
hope you did too.
Don't forget to hit that likebutton, subscribe and follow us
on YouTube and wherever else youget your podcasts.
Ilona (45:50):
And follow us on social media for all the behind the
scenes, fun updates and maybeeven some moments we didn't
share during the episode and ifyou really want to show us some
love, leave a review.
Mila (46:02):
It helps us more than you know.
Ilona (46:04):
All right, that's it for now.
Mila (46:05):
Thanks for hanging out with us, and we'll see you next
time, stay motivated, stayinspired and we'll catch you
next Tuesday on the GlamorousGrind.
Networking is important, no matter what profession you're
in.
Cayce (00:04):
You've got to define who you want to be and what your
brand to be and your values area great place to start.
I mean, my values areauthenticity and faith.
Ilona (00:11):
If someone walks into a room where people are mingling,
having drinks and talking, howdo you just pop into their
conversation, into their circleand become part of it?
Cayce (00:21):
You're a thought leader.
You're sharing the informationand you're sharing what.
You're an expert in.
Ilona (00:25):
It also comes down to loving yourself.
What other people do willmatter less, because you know
what you're worth.
Cayce (00:32):
How someone treats your response to you says more about
them than it ever does about you.
Ilona (00:36):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and the law is always in style.
I'm Alona Antonian, a trialattorney and a certified family
law specialist.
Mila (00:47):
And I'm Mila Erutunian, a trial attorney who specializes
in employment and personalinjury law.
We are lawyers, friends andyour guides to real-life legal
drama.
Ilona (00:57):
Each week, we're breaking down unforgettable cases,
sharing incredible personaljourneys and sharing what keeps
us motivated in our careers andpersonal lives.
Mila (01:07):
So, whether you're hustling to make your own dreams
happen or just here for a goodstory, settle in with your
favorite drink, because we'rebringing you wisdom, wit and a
whole lot of style.
Ilona (01:19):
It's law, it's life, it's the glamorous crowd welcome
back.
Mila (01:32):
Today we're going to focus on how to build an authentic
personal brand, how networkingplays into career success and
the challenges that come with itto help us do this.
Ilona (01:42):
We have a fabulous guest joining us Casey E Lynch, the
National Managing Partner atTyson Mendes.
Mila (01:50):
Casey has played a huge role in shaping the firm's
strategic vision, all whilefostering a culture that's all
about people and results.
She's the mastermind behindsome amazing initiatives at her
firm that we are excited to askher about, and she's not just a
leader in the legal world.
Ilona (02:07):
She's someone who understands the power of
personal branding and networking, which is something that
applies to everyone, no matteryour industry and whether you're
an introvert or extrovert.
So let's get into it.
Mila (02:18):
So, casey, thank you so much for joining us today.
We're so excited to have you.
I'm honored to be here.
Thanks for inviting me.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Cayce (02:27):
I am the national managing partner at Tyson Mendez
.
We are a defense firm.
It has been really, really coolto be part of a law firm that's
been growing ever since Ijoined.
When you started the firm, howmany employees did it have?
I think we had about 40attorneys at the time.
And what about now?
Ilona (02:46):
A little over 250.
Since you're managing the firm,what did you do personally to
help it grow?
Cayce (02:51):
Our leadership needed more hands-on support, I think,
and so they looked around thefirm, and I'm so grateful for
this.
They looked around the firminstead of hiring externally to
say, who do we have that'scapable and willing to work hard
and believes in this businessthat can help us, and so they
brought opportunities to me asthey came up.
Mila (03:12):
So one of the reasons why I really wanted you on our show
and obviously you're an amazingperson all around, really you
are.
I love following you.
I was just saying we haven'tseen each other in 10 years, but
the great thing about socialmedia is I feel like I haven't
missed out on any part of yourlife.
I remember you getting married,having kids, and you probably
(03:32):
saw me have all my kids too.
But you're just like a femalepowerhouse from where I stand,
and what is special about you tome is that there are a lot of
powerful women, but a lot ofwomen who reach a certain level
of power kind of harden a littlebit, and you… Harden in what
(03:59):
way, though?
I'm hardened in a way that,like I mean, we are attacked a
lot and you have to build like avery tough exterior to fight
that off, to make sure you canmaintain your position.
But what Casey's done and Ihaven't been able to do it,
honestly is like you'vemaintained your authenticity.
You've stayed authentic,genuine, kind and like sweet.
(04:28):
You like you haven't become youknow, so like.
I want to talk to you aboutyour personal branding and how
you've been able to keepauthenticity in your brand, for
me, it started with defining myvalues.
Cayce (04:38):
Brene Brown wrote a book, daring to Lead, and in it it
has an exercise on how to defineyour values and one of the big
questions is are they personalvalues or professional values?
And it's like no, no, yourvalues should be the same in all
aspects of your life.
And went through an exercise.
I wrote down on paper all thesedifferent values and she says
(05:01):
you can have two, you can't have12.
If you have 12, then thatreally doesn't give you a
compass, right?
You need to define it downtown,really specifically.
I went through the exercise andI defined my values and they are
authenticity and faith, and Idraw upon that when I'm
(05:23):
wondering which direction to goin branding for our organization
or branding for myself.
It's something I draw upon intimes of stress and anxiety,
like I mentioned, and I thinkthat's really helped.
So, as a first step for puttingyourself out there, I think
you've got to define who youwant to be and what your brand
to be, and your values are agreat place to start.
(05:45):
I mean any big organization youknow that's branded in the
world.
You know there was a teambehind it that thought about the
purpose behind the branding, soyou really need to think about
your purpose for yourself.
Mila (05:55):
I always say that I think branding and networking is
important, no matter whatprofession you're in.
I mean, a lot of people seelawyers and they're like, oh,
you should sit there, keep yourhead down and build your hours.
And lawyers do do that and theydon't really grow and build and
develop their brand and theydon't go after finding new
clients.
Ilona (06:14):
At my firm I have people who like to go to social events
network and they enjoy beingaround people.
They can come up to anyone andtalk to them and love mingling.
And then there are those thatdo not feel comfortable just
coming up to someone or goingalone or with just with another
person to an event and brandingthemselves.
They'd rather attend a firmevent or just go home or work on
(06:37):
something.
It's not their thing.
So can you really force that ifthey don't enjoy it?
I don't think so.
Mila (06:44):
Well, my thought is I think that the people who don't
like to socialize, who don'tlike to talk, are actually way
better at networking, becausepeople love to hear themselves
talk.
And someone like you or I, wholike go in and just like talk to
someone's ear off, could beannoying as hell, but someone
who goes in, asks the questionand listens to the other person
(07:05):
speak is going to leave way moreof an impression.
So I always encourageintroverts to get themselves out
there.
Maybe it's uncomfortable atfirst, but they don't have to
talk.
And I just think that, honestly, closed mouths don't get fed.
If you don't brand yourself, ifyou don't advocate for yourself
, whether a man or a woman,you're not going to get what you
(07:29):
don't ask for.
Ilona (07:30):
We have a saying in Russian, and I think there may
be one in English as well right,the squeaky wheel gets the
grease, Is there right?
Cayce (07:38):
I am the introvert and I was speaking with my business
development director justyesterday because I have a
couple of weeks of travel comingup and I said, okay, I need the
pep talk.
Tell me how I walk into theserooms with people I don't know.
And in one situation, maybethis could help listeners,
because the one thing that'seasiest for me is if I'm hosting
(08:01):
the event.
So if it's my company's eventthat I'm going to, then I feel
like it's my wedding andeveryone's there to see us.
That's why they came so to walkup and for the icebreaker to be
.
Thank you so much for coming,introduce yourself and welcome
and play host.
That's so much more comfortableto me as opposed to going to an
(08:21):
industry event with a cocktailhour with 300 people in a huge
ballroom Like whew, that is notmy cup of tea, but I do it as
part of my job and I totallyagree with you, amelia, that it
is the art of asking questions.
That's what I try to lean on,because I don't really know what
to say.
So it's what questions can Iask that are meaningful
(08:45):
questions, not just prettycloudy out there today?
to get some people to open upand and to get to know them a
little bit, and my businessdevelopment director has coached
me a lot on, you know,questions that I can use and
(09:05):
ways I can enter thoseconversations to try to feel
more comfortable.
So what are those questions?
Oh, I get no credit for any ofthis.
Okay, jordan Reese gets allcredit for this.
If you're joining a session at aconference or you're joining
someone at a breakfast table isto sit down, and her trick is
(09:29):
don't let conversation lull,because if you sit down and you
start and you just you know,look at your phone and then you
want to look up and starttalking and a group is already
talking around you, it's reallyhard to insert yourself.
So insert yourself, inviteyourself from the moment you sit
down to join the conversationand don't leave it.
Because to be the outsider andleave and have to come back or
(09:50):
try to come in middle of theconversation is even more
difficult.
And to just start by listeningto what they're talking about
and just pretend like you werethere the whole time and join in
or ask a question along thelines of how was breakfast this
morning or how have the sessionsbeen so far, where are you in
from?
(10:10):
And as you're introducingyourself.
Oh, this is my favorite one.
Her trick is, when they askwhat you do, to say do you want
the short version or the longversion?
You did that today with us Goodword, short version or long
version and it kind of most ofthe time people will give you
permission to give the longerversion in an introduction of
yourself, because you're notpressed for time, and so then
(10:33):
you can say five sentences aboutit instead of just your title.
And then, when you reciprocate,you also give them permission
to say more than just theirtitle, five sentences about
their title, and you get to knowa little bit more about each
other.
Ilona (10:47):
I think I'm going to use that one, because when people
ask me to talk about myself, Ihave this long, long story and
I'm like am I saying too much ornot?
Cayce (10:54):
I think Well and it provides an opening.
So after you say that, then go,then then put it back on them
and I'm like what's your longstory and what's your long story
?
And then you get.
You really, hopefully will havesome points of commonality.
You can, you can launch from.
If someone walks into a roomwhere people are mingling,
(11:22):
having drinks and talking, andthey're in groups with those
whom they know how do you justpop into their conversation,
into their circle and becomepart of it?
I'm not good at that, I am sohere's my answer.
Ilona (11:26):
Ok, please, I just come.
That I am.
So here's my answer.
Okay, please, I just come in,I'll have a drink in my hand and
I'll stand there for a minuteif they're in the middle of
conversation and then I'llintroduce myself.
Hi, I'm Alona.
You know what's your name?
That's how it gets started, andthen people will start talking.
Those who are not interestedwill leave the group and those
who want to talk to me will talkto me and you go from there.
Mila (11:46):
Here's kind of how I see it is.
I don't know, I was not alwaysan extrovert.
I feel like it was not innatefor me.
I had to really build that inmyself because I was so hungry,
like I was so hungry to win.
But I am not comfortable doingthat.
I have to amp myself up.
But what I always remind myselfis, and what I always tell my
(12:09):
mentees, because I've had a lotof them I have one quote and
I'll tell you the same thing Goafter what you want.
No pride, no shame, becausewhat is the worst that can
happen?
We always think oh, they'regoing to think this of us,
they're going to think that ofus.
We are not that important.
No one will remember.
They may judge us in the momentand then they'll forget about
it and it doesn't matter.
(12:29):
Worst case scenario like youdon't get form a connection.
Best case scenario you form aconnection and have this great
new contact.
I agree.
Ilona (12:38):
Kind of along the same lines what you said.
My motor is like what do I haveto lose?
Okay, somebody doesn't want totalk to me, so what, I may never
see them again.
They ignore me.
Who cares?
Mila (12:49):
I'll go on and talk to someone else or you're not going
to be everyone's cup of tea.
I had a guy on Facebook theother day like someone.
I had everyone on Facebookbecause I use it for like social
networking and all of the stuffI don't really post a lot of
kids on there, so I add whoeveradds me.
And this guy added me and thenleaves a comment on one of my
videos.
He literally says you nauseateme Really, you make me so sick
(13:15):
that I have to block you.
And then he said my teeth givehim nightmares, oh my God.
And it took me like a second.
I was like wow, like imagine,here I am spreading positivity
and love and you're really sadand you're and you're sold that
you hate me this much fornothing.
You don't even know me.
(13:35):
Why do you want to follow youif he hates you?
But then he blocked me so Icouldn't.
I wanted to save the comment toher, like, be okay, remind me
how.
It was kind of humbling andkind of.
I kind of need that shock valuesometimes.
Cayce (13:49):
I don't have trolls.
Let me say this I don't havetrolls online.
That's another layer.
So are you no more nice thanyou are?
The other thing that I've hadto come to terms with on the
fear, like what's the worst,that you that would happen.
I think I feel back to mymiddle school years where, like
(14:10):
I could go sit at a table andkids would like scoot away from
me or like just I was not superpopular as a little kid and like
elementary school was difficult, middle school was difficult
and then high school started tolike.
I kind of came into my own alittle more.
But this fear of rejection andnot being accepted, I think
(14:31):
that's where it truly like comesfrom, and it's like you're a
grown ass woman.
Mila (14:36):
Get it together.
Cayce (14:38):
Get it together.
That's what it comes from andit's just like.
So what if they walk away?
First of all, they won't.
People don't do that as adults.
That does not happen withstrangers at a conference.
Mila (14:48):
I've never seen it.
I've never experienced it, andmost people enjoy having
authentic conversations.
Exactly.
Cayce (14:54):
The other thing you can do if you don't want to go up to
a full group of people is findsomeone on the outskirts who's a
loner, because they might havea similar personality as you and
walk up and just have aone-on-one and you could also
just be like hey, I'm going togo get a drink at the bar, do
you want?
Mila (15:08):
to walk.
You guys want to know my thingthat I always do.
I always find something I cancompliment, like if it's shoes.
I can't do fake compliments,but it's not fake.
I find something I really like,like hey, I love your shoes,
nice shoes.
I'm Mila, but like you know,everyone's different.
Some people are like veryawkward, like why is this person
complimenting?
And obviously it's different ifit's like a grown man.
Ilona (15:31):
I can't really compliment like that you can always look
at their watch and belts andshoes.
Mila (15:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's just a way to like get that icebreaker
and then after that it's mucheasier to engage in conversation
did you ever have a situationwhere you're like, hey, I like
your shoes and okay, great seeyou later.
Yeah, sometimes people areawkward about it, like not
everyone wants to chat with me,and again at that of the day
it's like okay, not everyone hasto like me, that's okay, what?
(15:57):
That's the worst thing that canhappen.
I mean, this man leaves me anasty comment on my facebook and
then blocks me and deletes it.
I'm so sorry about that, butit's like, okay, worst thing
that can happen.
He doesn't like me and I alwayssay this to my kids.
I say this to everyone people'sactions towards you is more of
a reflection of them and whatthey're going through at any
given time than it is of you soyou can't take that.
Ilona (16:18):
I guess we're all grown up now, but it feels the same as
you're on a playground andyou're trying to make new
friends.
Cayce (16:24):
It does sometimes.
Ilona (16:26):
And same thing.
Children grow up and some willinteract with you and be nice
and some won't.
So just part of life and itdoesn't change as you grow from
being a child to becoming anadult, I know so.
Mila (16:39):
True, when you're a kid all that stuff is so
traumatizing it like sticks withyou.
I bet you guys have likespecific memories.
I have specific memories oflike being rejected or made fun
of that.
Ilona (16:49):
I'm sure everyone has.
Today I was doing myfive-year-old hair and she's
like mommy, don't do thishairstyle.
Because when you did braidshere the other day and you
connected them, I was made funof on a playground and I thought
her hair looked so cute, butshe was sad that they were
making fun of her.
So, on one hand, why would theydo that?
(17:09):
But on another hand, it's goodbecause she'll learn through
this experience and it's thesame as being rejected and
learning how to be tough and notgive a shit.
Mila (17:22):
So funny story on that, because my son and I know we
talked about piano.
You said you put Ella in piano.
She didn't like it and youdidn't force her to keep going.
I forced Daniel to keep goingand now his teacher invited him
to do a concert and he comeshome he's like obviously I'm not
doing it, mom, I'm like I'msorry, who told you you have a
choice?
Like I'm sorry, who told youyou have a choice, you are doing
(17:42):
it?
And he just refused.
He couldn't eat dinner, hecouldn't sleep all night.
He was like what, if everyonelaughs at me, I'm like then
they'll laugh at you.
But if you're prepared, there'sno reason you will fail In this
family.
When hard things come, we don'trun from them, we run towards
them and we prepare and we go atit.
And then I was like okay, maybeI'm being a little harsh.
(18:03):
So then, like one night beforebed, he likes it when I like
brush his hair back.
And I was like sitting there, Iwas like you know, I don't
expect you to do perfect, right?
And he was just like what?
I'm like yeah, you can go upthere and like suck, like as
long as you prepare, and that'syour best.
And if your best sucks, I'llstill be proud of you.
But if you don't try, and ifyou're like so scared of being
(18:26):
rejected that you're just notgoing to try at all, then I'll
see you as a failure and I willnot be proud of you.
I'll be super disappointed.
And so after that it likeclicked, and ever since then he
doesn't even try to like talk meout of it.
He's like yeah, I'm doing theconcert.
Cayce (18:44):
I see it in my four-year-old.
She gets so frustrated tryingto do a puzzle because she can't
do it perfectly immediately,and I see my little self in her
and I literally said to her thismorning you don't have to do it
perfect.
It takes time to stand up, walkaway, take a breath, come back
and you'll be able to finish it.
It's yeah, we've got to like.
I want to give her somepermission to just try really,
(19:04):
really hard and do our absolutebest and not feel like it has to
be perfect I think it alsocomes down to loving yourself,
right?
Ilona (19:12):
if you love yourself, then what other people do will
matter less, because you knowyou're.
It doesn't take away from whoyou are and what you're worth.
They just don't know who youare, and if they don't care to
appreciate or learn about you,let it be it.
Cayce (19:29):
You know that's it.
That's what you said beforethat how someone treats your
response to you says more aboutthem than it ever does about you
.
Ilona (19:35):
Yeah, as it relates to us as adults and branding yourself
and going to events.
It's just having the confidencethat you love yourself and it
doesn't matter.
That event should not changeyour self-perception or your
self-confidence.
I mean, it can take a stab atit, right?
(19:56):
Nobody likes being ignored ornobody likes feeling they don't
matter or they're not important.
But ultimately, if you focus onbetter things you have in life
when you leave that event and begrateful for other people that
love you and having a home and aroof over your head and all the
(20:18):
other great things, then thatwill just be a little part that
will be gone in the past.
Mila (20:23):
Well, the thing is in everything in life, right, you
cannot succeed until you failLike.
You cannot just not try when itcomes to anything.
And that goes back to the wholething of like.
I think, no matter whatprofession you're in, you need
to brand yourself, you need topromote yourself, and a lot of
people especially women, I thinkmore than men it's
(20:44):
uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable to advocatefor yourself and tell everyone
I'm so great, this is everythingI've accomplished.
This is why I would be like agreat asset to whatever it is
that you're doing.
But you have to do that becauseif you don't, no one will know
your worth.
Who else is going to advocatefor you?
Ilona (21:02):
So how do you brand yourself?
What tools do you use?
Cayce (21:05):
So networking is a big one.
We've talked about that and Iwant to reframe networking for
just a minute because from myperspective, it's more about
relationship building thanfostering longer term
relationships with people.
It's very rare from my side ofthe bar and in my business to
walk up to someone cold a coldconversation at a networking
(21:29):
hour, for them to need exactlywhat I'm offering and for me to
be able to offer it.
And I walk out with a clientand I don't think I understood
that as a young lawyer.
That's not how it works.
You meet people, you stay intouch, you have lunch next time
you're in town.
You follow each other on socialmedia which I'll get into but
you learn to be able to likewhat are their pain points and
(21:50):
how can you help provide a value.
And so for me it's developingthose relationships and it's a
long term play and I did notquite appreciate that when I
started networking.
So, along the lines of patience, it also takes time.
Social media has also been a bigone for our law firm and for me
(22:11):
personally.
After defining my values andknowing how I wanted to show up
online, I connected with acommunity of professionals who
are building their brand andpromoting their brands on
LinkedIn in particular.
Some of them use TikTok andInstagram and Facebook as well,
but it's primarily LinkedIn andmy group is it's called Catalyst
(22:35):
Community.
It's primarily for my side ofthe bar no-transcript then.
(23:05):
You're going to remember whatso-and-so said in this Facebook
post and so it's developingrelationships there too.
So this community has been.
I've been able to learn fromthem.
They're so much more advancedand further along in their
promotion online than I am, butthey've been really instrumental
in telling me what works andwhat doesn't and how you how you
(23:26):
frame going about having anonline presence.
Mila (23:29):
I think you've done great at building your online presence
and incorporating yourauthenticity into that presence,
because I've seen your postsand I mean I try to do the same
thing, but you post about everyaspect of life, not only
professionally and but you alsopost about, you know, building
yourself as a woman.
You post about being a mom lifenot only professionally, but
you also post about buildingyourself as a woman.
You post about being a mom,about being a wife, about your
faith, and I love thecombination of everything
(23:53):
because it does give people moreof a magnifying glass on you as
a human, and I read about thisa lot that most people want to
do business with a person, not abusiness.
Ilona (24:07):
That's what I was just about to say yes, because I
think people want to know whoare you and that builds trust
Over the years you'll meet a lotof people at many events and
social media and whatever, andit's really hard to keep in
touch with everyone and maintaina relationship, especially when
you have a family, when youhave a full-time job.
(24:30):
So how do you do this?
How do you actually haveauthentic relationships with
people that you meet?
Cayce (24:36):
One of the first things that I do is connect with
someone on LinkedIn so that I'llsee them in my feed and they
will see me in theirs.
It's what Amelia was sayingbefore that we haven't seen each
other in almost 10 years, itfeels like.
But we know what's going on ineach other's lives and maybe
that's much more superficialthan actually calling and having
phone conversations, but we'restill on each other's minds.
(24:57):
I think about you all the time.
So that's one Sending a thankyou email when you're done, like
after the event for the youknow five I had five really good
conversations I'm just going tosend a thank you email.
I got their card.
I'm going to send a thank youemail and stay in touch and then
I rely on my team from thatpoint and we know where this
person is based.
(25:17):
It goes into our system.
The next time I'm traveling toChicago and I have an opening
for lunch, it's like, okay, well, who are the people who are in
Chicago that I could invite out?
And my team houses the data andthey share with me.
So really good record keeping areally strong team to help me.
But you know, really startingthat foundation of making
(25:37):
proactively reach out to makethose connections right after
the first conversation.
Mila (25:41):
I do the same thing.
It's funny that you say youknow I get it every time.
It's like my process whenever Inetwork, I get everyone's cards
.
I send an email say it wasgreat to meet you.
Here's my contact info, let'sstay in touch.
Then I add them on LinkedIn andmy thing, like I'm always
posting on LinkedIn and I'vekind of put myself out there as
(26:01):
like I am the employment lawgirl and I'm always posting
about whenever an interestinglaw comes out.
I'm like let me make a video,Let me do this.
Or like a cool case that I do,let me make a video.
So then, when people haveemployment issues like every
single person on LinkedIn whohas an employment issue, I have
7,000 followers they think of mefirst because I'm always in
their face Annoying me whilewe're talking about employment
(26:25):
law.
But I mean that's kind of how,like, I've built my brand within
the community.
I mean, coming out of lawschool, I didn't know any
lawyers, I didn't know what Iwas doing.
I, you know, fell intoemployment law.
I really liked it.
It became my niche, myspecialty.
I did some PI at Tyson andMendez, but that's how I built
my brand, that's how I mademyself known and if I hadn't
(26:47):
done that, I wouldn't be knownand I probably would be making a
lot less money.
Cayce (26:52):
Well, that's so important is that you talk about what you
know, because we know a lotright and you've positioned
yourself so well, especiallywhen the updates come right,
because not every lawyer, notevery employer, not every
employee, god knows, isfollowing the law on what their
(27:13):
rights are now and what theprocess needs to be and what the
obligations are between anemployee and employer.
And you, coming on and doingthose videos, you're a thought
leader, you're sharing theinformation and you're sharing
what you're an expert in.
So, for people who want tostart having more of a presence,
talk about what you know, talkabout what you're passionate
about, what you're interested in, and it's infectious.
It'll be remembered.
Ilona (27:34):
We have some viewers who are either law students or want
to become a lawyer one day.
From your personal experience,what does it take to start from
being a new associate at a firmto get to where you are today?
Cayce (27:50):
Patience, I think, is the first thing, because when you
look back now you think, in thegrand scheme of life, 12 years,
wow, you've come a really,really long way and I believe
that I have and I'm super proudof what I've accomplished.
I have and I'm super proud ofwhat I've accomplished.
At the same time, looking backbeing 26, 27, 28 years old 12
(28:10):
years felt like so far away andI just wanted, I wanted the
success now, I wanted thefinancial stability now, I
wanted the opportunity now and Icertainly got it and I got it
very quickly.
Looking back, but in the momentit's just so hard to stay in
the grind.
Stick with the work, eventhough it's hard, see it through
(28:30):
completion and then take on thenext opportunity right, and you
just want the bigger titleright now.
So it takes time and that'swhat Bob Tyson, the founder of
(28:50):
our firm, shared with me when Iwas really young is that the
opportunity is going to come.
You just need to be patient andkeep working really hard, and I
did, and it's true, and I wantto pass on that advice to the
next generation.
Ilona (28:58):
What's an expectation from new attorneys in terms of
billable hours and the work theygot to put in for at least the
first two years, while they gettheir feet wet and understand
how it all works?
Cayce (29:09):
I think it's important to keep in mind that you've joined
a profession and when you putin the hours, regardless of what
the requirements are, you'reinvesting in yourself because
you're learning your professionand you're getting better and
you're growing.
And it often takes an hour ortwo more than your billable
requirement in order to get thebillable requirement.
(29:31):
So let's say you have aneight-hour day requirement, you
probably need to work 10 hours aday.
Ilona (29:36):
I love what you've said about you're investing in
yourself because it is part oftraining and learning, because
their work product initiallywill not be as good as the
partner level or a seniorattorney who may know an answer
right away and may take a newattorney, you know half an hour
to two hours to find out how todo something.
Mila (29:55):
So I have an interesting perspective because Casey and I
worked together back when I wasstarting off as an associate.
I think I started with TysonAmenders my second year out of
law school.
It was my second job and Ialready had one baby, so I kind
of was transitioning into beinga mom and a lawyer at the same
time and I remember Casey workedreally, really hard and I was
(30:16):
actually there when she wasnamed partner and I remember
your speech like it wasyesterday.
I really do Really.
Cayce (30:22):
What did I say?
Mila (30:24):
And it was like really like heartwarming to me, because
I remember just thinking likethis is the dream, and
especially coming from, you know, russia, where I don't know I
don't want to say there aren't alot of opportunities but there
aren't as many opportunities andseeing a young woman be named a
partner at a firm.
I mean I saw how hard sheworked.
(30:46):
She would come in early, shewould leave late, sometimes she
wouldn't leave, always working,always hustling, and you were
from where I stood.
You were an imperative part ofthe firm's growth.
After the Howell case, tysonand Mendez won a really big case
, the Howell case, and you wantto talk a little bit about that
(31:06):
kind of what that case entailedthe long version or the short
version the short version in2011,.
Cayce (31:20):
and the case held that injured plaintiffs are able to
recover what their healthinsurance pays for their medical
bills in their personal injurycase.
And we all have looked atmedical bills in the past, right
?
So you'll see very often on amedical bill that a provider
will charge $1,000, but thehealth insurance actually pays
(31:42):
maybe $250 at the end of the dayto resolve the medical claim.
Those are contractuallynegotiated rates between the
doctor and the health insurancecompany.
The Howell case held that it'sthe $250 amount, what's actually
incurred, what's actually paidin full satisfaction of those
bills.
That's what the plaintiffsallowed to recover in a personal
injury suit and the law, ofcourse, has evolved so much in
(32:06):
the 14 years since that case.
But it was a very big deal forthe defense industry, for the
insurance industry in Californiaand in a traditionally very
liberal, plaintiff-friendlystate.
Ilona (32:18):
I remember when that case came out.
I actually practiced personalinjury at that time and the last
trial I did was in 2013 or 2014.
It was a medical malpracticecase and you know how a case was
.
It came into play, obviously,when it came to medical bills.
Mila (32:34):
So that was Tyson Mendez.
And then after that, you know,obviously a lot of you know
insurance companies wanted TysonMendez to represent them and
that happened in 2011.
Casey came in in 2012.
And they kind of really put youkind of front facing with all
the clients.
I remember which is also whyyou added so much value, because
(32:54):
not everyone can do that andyou were able to balance a lot
at the time.
You were still, you know,practicing as well, so you were
doing that and you were doingthat and you were doing the
client facing stuff, bringing incases, just like hustling on
all ends.
And I remember, when they madeyou partner because we they had
just exploded and you were ableto manage all of that.
(33:17):
And you said, you know, theseguys say that like we believe in
you and we'll help you grow,and they really mean it.
And I remember, like with tearsin your eyes, you said that I
remember your exact speech, ifyou can believe it, because it
had such an impact on me,because I like to me.
At the time, my thought wasokay, you work hard, you will
(33:39):
accomplish it no matter what,and so, from my perspective, I
really think that you have a lotof really great qualities your
ability to manage a lot ofthings at once.
I think your standard hasalways been excellence, from
everything I've seen, and youdon't really settle for anything
below that, and, frankly, Ithink that's what any person who
(34:02):
achieves great things reallyhas.
Those are all attributes, sofirst of all.
Cayce (34:06):
That just like warms my heart so much, thank you.
I'm like trying not to tear up,so thank you, I'm so glad and I
do believe that.
I do believe that if you workreally, really hard and you
promote yourself and you ask forit, right, it's not being
working really hard and beingmeek in the corner and if that
fits your personality and that'syour style, fine.
(34:27):
It was was not mine, is notmine.
Um, I am a recoveringperfectionist and there's been a
lot of.
So at the beginning, when I'mpersonally in charge of doing
every little thing, it waseasier to perform in that way
because I had personalresponsibility for every single
little thing, and I still havepersonal.
But it's on a much larger scaleand I cannot that one human
(34:50):
could not possibly run anorganization of this size.
So it's first trust in my teamand that's developed over time.
Mila (34:57):
And having a team you can trust.
Cayce (34:59):
Yes, yes, having a team you can trust, and I have a lot
of tenure in my with my directreports, and so that's.
It's a it really is a blessingand a luxury that not everyone
has in today's market.
At the same time, there comes apoint where you have to realize
that excellence is what youneed to be forcing and focusing
(35:22):
on, not perfection, and thatsometimes done is better than
perfect.
And so, looking at a workproduct that someone will do now
I might have done it different,I might have said it a little
different, but before I even goto make changes, it's is what
they've said wrong.
No, it's not.
So it's okay.
You know, in in reviewingwritten work product, it's okay
(35:45):
to stick to the standard ofexcellence.
Let people keep their voice.
It's not it's not all about mecontrolling every little thing.
It's and it's I.
In moments of really highanxiety, I want to control and
I'm so lucky, particularly oneteam member will look at me and
just be like we got this, andit's like she knows that that's
the language she needs to usewith me, to just tell me like,
(36:07):
take a breath, you can trust us,we got this, and it's like she
knows that that's the languageshe needs to use with me to just
tell me, like, take a breath,you can trust us.
We got this and I know they do,but that's my tendency is to.
My coping mechanism is to goright back to the level of
perfection and control.
Mila (36:19):
You can't scale without letting go.
I mean unfortunately, Ilistened to all these podcasts
about growing businesses becauseI'm just a nerd, but that's one
of the main things that I'velearned like you have to let go,
Don't let perfection be theenemy of progress.
Ilona (36:37):
Oh, it's hard to do Like you can hear it all day long
Listen to the books and yourfriends can tell you that.
But when you care and you wantto win and you know your clients
are paying a lot of money andtheir life is in your hands,
it's hard to not court or yourmotions or whatever it is and
(37:15):
the settlement documents have tobe done to a T.
Cayce (37:16):
Of course I do not practice anymore in this role, I
just manage the organization,and so it is.
You know, does this PowerPointexplaining our benefits package,
you know, and that's?
I'm not saying that's lessimportant, it's very important.
That's our people's livelihood,that's our medical care.
But I have to, I hire a team ofexperts who know this stuff and
I need to let them operatewithin their sphere of expertise
(37:37):
.
And then someone told merecently and I just love it my
friend, michelle Rao, who'sactually a chief claims officer
in an insurance company, saidit's her job as the leader to
drive the bulldozer, to get allof the obstacles out of your
team members' way.
And I'm like, ooh, I want tolearn to be a bulldozer driver.
Mila (37:56):
So I know you said one of your passion projects is issues
in women's leadership, so tellus a little bit about that.
Cayce (38:04):
Women come out of law school at rates, I think, higher
than men these days.
I think we've edged them out.
Finally, I think we're comingout at over 50%.
And then the femalerepresentation drops off in
private practice at that pointand then as you move up through
leadership levels in law firms,you see it drop even more and
(38:27):
more, and so a firm like yoursis super, super special in this
industry because of the positionyou've empowered women to take
and you've taken for yourselfand the platform you've made for
others.
And so I just very cognizant ofthe role that I play in the
(38:50):
industry, but also, hopefully,for other women, kind of like
you mentioned Amelia, justremembering a speech that I gave
, because I remember my mentorsand the women that I always
looked up to giving a speech,and that's what we want to do is
leave the profession betterthan we found it.
So I'm cognizant of thedrop-off rates for women as they
(39:10):
move through leadership.
I want to be advocates forwomen, to brand themselves, to
speak up for themselves, to seekout and take opportunities when
they arise.
Do your very best work, put outexcellent work, product, be the
best.
You can be, as cheesy as thatmay sound.
You can be as cheesy as thatmay sound.
So that's, yeah, I guess that'smy position on on women in
(39:36):
leadership, just kind of mymindset of being cognizant of
the role that I play and usingmy platform to help others
succeed as well.
Ilona (39:39):
I think to be able to rise in the leadership role as a
woman, you have to put familyon hold for a while, because
otherwise you won't be able togive that time and work as hard
as you have or I have, and youwere able to do it with the kids
.
I think you started early inthose years.
Cayce (39:55):
What do you think about that?
I don't know if it's a must,but that was definitely my
choice and that brought otherchallenges right, because I had
my first child at 35.
And you know there are otherchallenges.
It takes on your body andyou're just older getting up in
the night than you are if you'rein your 20s.
(40:17):
And I have friends from highschool and college who had kids
right out of high school andright out of college and now
they're like teenagers.
It's wild.
So, yeah, there's a definitely.
I personally chose to hold onfinding my career.
I also hadn't met my husbandyet, so that helped right.
(40:37):
But yeah, so I was fortunate toand fortunate to find someone
at the point in life where wedid, where we were both ready
and we felt both of our careerscould support it.
Ilona (40:50):
Yes, that's a good point you make.
I mean same thing with me.
I didn't find anybody tilllater, so I was focused on my
career and it probably wouldhave been regardless.
But for those who haven't foundthat special person to have a
family with a lot of women, whohave all these dreams to have a
family and a career and have itall but haven't found it look at
(41:14):
it as a blessing because itgives you an opportunity to
focus on your career and move upin a leadership role, if that's
what you want, or just be goodat what you do, so that you have
skills, a skill set that youcan use in the future and rely
on yourself down the road,whether alone or with someone
else.
Cayce (41:28):
I mean, it's something I always looked up to you about,
amelia, because I remember I canremember sitting in our
conference room and you and Ihaving a conversation about your
son and how old he was and howmany times he was up in the
night and you were just ready togo and I sit there thinking to
myself like I don't think Icould do that, I don't think I'm
cut out for that, and so therewas a long time where, for
(41:51):
several, several years, where Iwondered if I would ever become
a parent or if I wanted it,because I was so driven on the
career side of things.
Mila (41:59):
And then I think obviously I got a little older and I met
my husband and it was very clearto me that that's what I think
a lot of women feel that way,like they look at their lives as
they are, which, when you're alawyer, it's very busy, and
they're like how am I gonna adda husband and a child to this
crazy equation already?
And the thing is, you can like,when it comes, you can handle
it.
(42:19):
I want to give you guys alittle confession that I've
actually never told anyone.
This is a real thing and.
Cayce (42:25):
I'm like embarrassed.
Mila (42:27):
I'm embarrassed because now, looking back at it, like it
wasn't my most proud moment.
Granted, there were hormones.
I got married really young.
I was 21 and I started lawschool two days after I got
married and my husband is 10years older than me and it was
like an Armenian thing and youknow, like families.
But I got out of law school wehad been married like five years
(42:48):
and everyone was like yourhusband's ready to have children
, like he's waited because ofyou, like you need to get
started.
And you know, I think I was 24at the time I like finished law
school and I was like, okay,let's start trying, thinking
it's going to take years.
And I got pregnant right away.
Like I finished.
I passed the bar in November andI found out I was pregnant in
January and I was shocked and Ididn't expect that to happen,
(43:14):
which now, like I realize what ablessing it was because I
struggled so much to getpregnant with my second one.
But I remember coming into workthe very first day I'm like a
first year associate and I justfound out I'm pregnant two
months after I passed the barand I always was an early bird,
so it's like seven in themorning.
There was only one otherattorney there and he was like
in his own office and I remembersitting down at my desk and I
just started bawling.
(43:35):
I just started crying, nothappy bawling.
I was like really fuckingscared.
And the guy comes in and he waslike this little guy I remember
him so well And's like what isgoing on, and I just like broke
down to him Vlad doesn't evenknow this, my husband doesn't
even know this and I was likeI'm pregnant, like I'm never
gonna make it as a lawyer.
(43:55):
My whole career is ruined.
I can't believe I went to lawschool and now I'm gonna have
nothing because I'm gonna havethis baby.
And like how am I gonna do both?
I'm not.
So obviously I'm going to be agood lawyer because I'm going to
try and be a good mom.
And I remember it so wellbecause later I was so
embarrassed that I like did thisto this guy that I don't even
know.
He was like trying to trying tolike make me feel better, and
(44:20):
but he was just at a loss ofwords.
But that was my reaction andnow I'm so I've never admitted
this to anyone, never talkedabout it, because I was so
embarrassed that I like had thisblessing of being pregnant, and
that I just cried and was, likeyou know, cursing god for like
giving me this child, because Iwas so driven and I thought it
(44:41):
was going to destroy my career.
At the end of the day, though,it gave me fuel because it made
me want to.
I was like you.
You know what?
Fuck this.
I'll have both.
I'm just going to have thisbaby.
Ilona (44:51):
That's because you're, you, some people.
Cayce (44:53):
But also I think it's totally normal to be afraid and
question at that moment, becausewhere had it been modeled for
you?
Where had you seen someone intheir mid-20s, pregnant, just
out of law school, startingtheir job, succeed in both?
You're blazing a trail.
It was never modeled for you.
(45:13):
You had to go out and you choseto go out.
You were given the blessing,the opportunity to go out and be
the first one and do it in yourcircle, in your community.
It's huge.
Mila (45:24):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
This has been an amazingconversation.
It's been really fun.
Thanks for having me.
Ilona (45:31):
That brings us to the end of this episode of the
Glamorous Grind.
Thank you for spending timewith us today.
Mila (45:38):
We had a wonderful time hearing Casey's insights, and we
hope you did too.
Don't forget to hit that likebutton, subscribe and follow us
on YouTube and wherever else youget your podcasts.
Ilona (45:50):
And follow us on social media for all the behind the
scenes, fun updates and maybeeven some moments we didn't
share during the episode and ifyou really want to show us some
love, leave a review.
Mila (46:02):
It helps us more than you know.
Ilona (46:04):
All right, that's it for now.
Mila (46:05):
Thanks for hanging out with us, and we'll see you next
time, stay motivated, stayinspired and we'll catch you
next Tuesday on the GlamorousGrind.
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