June 3, 2025 • 45 mins
Thinking about divorce or already in the thick of it? In this episode of The Glamorous Grind, Ilona and Mila break down everything you need to know about navigating divorce with clarity, confidence, and class.
Ilona—certified family law specialist—walks us through the entire process: from recognizing the red flags that it might be time to leave, to the step-by-step legal timeline, child custody, financial division, and how to protect your peace during one of the most emotionally charged experiences in life.
Mila brings the real questions and relatable insight, while Ilona brings expert answers and grounded guidance. Plus, don’t miss our signature segments:
- 🚩 Red Flag / Green Flag: Signs it’s time to go
- 📰 Headline Breakdown: Are celebrity divorces changing marriage?
- 💌 Let’s Get Gritty: Listener Q&A
- ✨ Glam Tip of the Week: Reclaim your power, your space, and your sparkle
Whether you’re considering separation, already in the process, or supporting someone who is—this episode is your must-listen divorce survival guide.
Want more glamor during your grind? New episodes every Tuesday. Make sure you are subscribed on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mila (00:00):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where law meets lifestyle
and the drama is always legallybinding.
Ilona (00:07):
Today we're pulling back the curtain on one of the most
misunderstood and the mostemotional legal processes
divorce.
Mila (00:15):
From the moment you start thinking should I leave To the
paperwork, the court dates, thecustody and the healing.
Ilona (00:22):
This is your crash course on what to expect, the custody
and the healing.
This is your crash course onwhat to expect.
We'll break it down from startto finish.
Talk about red flags and whatit might mean, when it's time to
go and how to protect yourpeace through the chaos.
Mila (00:33):
No guests this week, it's just the two of us.
So let's go deep and give youyour free consultation on what
to expect when you're separated.
So I think a lot of people,when they file for divorce, they
have no idea what to expect,which is why we're doing this
(00:55):
episode right, like a freeconsultation.
Talk to us about once you file,like once you file the
paperwork, what happens?
Do you have to go stand infront of a judge and talk about
anything?
Or, you know, is it?
Is it less formalized than that?
Ilona (01:10):
Just because you filed for a petition for divorce to
initiate the case, all you'regoing to get is a case
management conference or astatus conference in six months,
which is the judge who wants toknow.
Okay, do you serve thepaperwork?
Are you guys negotiating anysettlement terms?
Do you need to go to mediation?
Is there a discovery exchangeof financial information
happening?
So, just because you opened upa case, nothing will happen.
(01:33):
You're not going to have toappear in front of a judge
unless you make a specificrequest for relief and ask for a
court hearing in front of ajudge asking the court to make
child support orders or spousesupport orders or attorney fee
orders or attorney fee orders orany other relief you need.
Mila (01:47):
So that happens if you file for divorce and you have to
go through the process.
But what happens when youresolve it privately?
You discussed mediation.
How does that look?
Ilona (02:01):
You can go to mediation at any time.
It's also a good idea toexchange settlement offers
before you appear in court tosee if you can resolve it
through what's calledstipulation and order.
Stipulation is just a fancyword for an agreement and that
agreement then is turned into anorder because the judge signs
(02:21):
off on your agreement.
You don't have to have a judgedecide of what the order should
be.
You agree and decide what thejudge should sign to be in order
.
For example, if you're trying tonegotiate child support or
spouse support or attorney'sfees, if there's no court
hearing on calendar, it may takea long time for you to
negotiate and possibly not reachan agreement.
(02:42):
Maybe you will, but in case ifyou don't, there's a hearing on
calendar, then you go and youget it done.
It's good to go to mediation,but you should make an informed
decision, knowing what yourrights are.
If you want to give everythingaway to your spouse, 80% of it
or 60% or 70%, that's absolutelyfine, just as long as you know
(03:03):
what you're entitled to andyou're doing it knowingly and
voluntarily, with material factsdisclosed to you.
Mila (03:13):
So mediator is a third party, neutral, that comes in,
listens to both sides and kindof advises and tries to resolve
the situation, right, yes, so ina divorce proceeding, who pays
for the mediator?
Because they charge on anhourly basis, right, yes, so in
a divorce proceeding, who paysfor the mediator Because they
charge on an hourly?
Ilona (03:25):
basis right, they do.
Usually the spouse thatcontrols the money advances the
cost subject to allocation,meaning they'll pay for it, and
then at the end, when you'redividing the assets, the parties
may agree that they'll sharethe cost of the mediator 50-50,
and it's going to come off fromsome bank account or equity
(03:46):
that's in the house, orgenerally the one that has more
money pays for it.
Mila (03:50):
So let me ask you a question that I think a lot of
people would want to know In themeantime, while all of these
negotiations are happening,what's going on with the money?
Because I know in a lot ofsituations, you know, a woman or
sometimes a man doesn't workand then they decide to file for
divorce.
Regardless of which partydecides to file for divorce, a
(04:13):
lot of times they'll have tomove out separately.
Sometimes they stay together,but there are costs that need to
be paid, and if one of theparties has no income, how do
they pay for those costs whilethe divorce proceedings are
ongoing, before the financialsituation is resolved?
Ilona (04:30):
Well, it depends If sometimes the spouse who
controls the money will continuepaying all the bills and giving
you same unrestricted access tothe credit cards and bank
accounts so you can spend whatyou want on life.
So you have no incentive thento go to court.
And bank accounts so you canspend what you want on life.
So you have no incentive thento go to court and file for
(04:50):
child support and spouse supportand attorney's fees.
But I mean you may still havean incentive because you know
what exists to divide it.
In other cases, if the otherside is not so nice to give you
unrestricted access or limits onwhat you can spend, then you
should rush to file for childsupport and spouse support and
attorney's fees so that you canhave representation, so you can
(05:11):
get the child support awardthat's guideline minimum in
California and spouse supportaward.
Mila (05:20):
How long does the motion usually take Is?
Ilona (05:23):
it a motion.
It's a motion.
You have to file a request foran order so the judge can make
an order From the moment youfile it.
It takes about 60 to 90 days toget a hearing date.
If you settle it in advance,great.
If you don't, then you go andthe judge will make an order
based on the financials thatyou've presented, both yours and
the other side.
Mila (05:42):
This is a question that's always in my mind when I see a
partnership that's falling apartand one partner makes money and
the other one doesn't.
What if they completely cut offtheir funds?
And that person, if it takes 60to 90 days to get a motion on
(06:03):
calendar to get spousal supportor child support in that 60 to
90 days, get a motion oncalendar to get spousal support
or child support In that 60 to90 days, how are they supposed
to survive?
And the spouse that cut themoff and is not paying them
during that time?
Is there anything punitive youcan do to them for being so
unreasonable?
Because divorce changes people.
From everything I've seen,people can get really nasty in
divorce.
Ilona (06:25):
I've seen people can get really nasty in divorce.
That is true.
Unfortunately, the only thingyou can do is appear ex parte,
that means on emergency basis,explain your situation, that you
have no means to live andsupport your children yourself
and ask for the court to advancethe hearing date to be heard
sooner.
It's called order shorteningtime, so just advancing the
hearing from 60 to 90 dayswhenever it's scheduled to be
(06:48):
sooner, maybe in two weeks Ifthe court denies the request.
If you don't have exigentcircumstances, then you will
just have to borrow money untilyour court hearing date or ask
for public assistance,unfortunately, or ask for family
and friends for help.
Mila (07:04):
What's blowing my mind right now?
And I'm an attorney, I have adoctorate degree, I passed the
bar on the first time, but a lotof this stuff is going over my
head because I've neverpracticed in this field.
So I can't imagine as a layperson coming into this if you
can't afford an attorney.
I can't even fathom how scaryand difficult it must be.
(07:26):
And I know there are servicesthat the state provides and the
counties provide and things likethat, but it's just it feels
like it's so complex and sodifficult.
Ilona (07:40):
The best thing you can do if you cannot afford a lawyer
is go to court and make anappointment with Family Law
Facilitator's office.
They're going to give you theforms packet to fill out.
They'll do their best to helpyou fill it out.
They have law studentsvolunteering and they're managed
by a supervising attorney.
At least you'll get somethingfiled and get it on calendar to
(08:01):
get a court hearing date.
It's best to do something thannothing, because if you don't
take action, if you don't take aday to go and get those forms
and file them, just let the timepass by, even if the other
spouse is going to benon-cooperative in the process.
As long as you get thepaperwork filed and get it on
calendar, the court preservesjurisdiction back to the date of
(08:24):
filing your petition.
That means you're preservingthe time back to the date when
you filed your petition, thateven if your hearing is in 90
days or in 60 days or even in ayear let's say somebody really
delays the process you can getyour child support and spouse
support back to the date offiling the petition if you asked
(08:47):
for it and checked all theproper boxes, and that's why the
Family Law Facilitator's Officewill help you with that and
every courthouse and everycounty in California has that
Family Law Facilitator's Officeto help people who cannot afford
an attorney.
Mila (09:00):
Okay, so now we'll play red flag, green flag, so I will
be asking questions and you tellme if it's a red flag or a
green flag.
So the first question I want toask and I see this all the time
, especially from coming from,you know, an ex-Soviet, middle
Eastern-ish background peopledon't want to get therapy,
(09:21):
people do not want to gettherapy.
So your spouse refuses to gettherapy but keeps telling you
they're going to change Red flagor green flag.
Of course it's a red flag.
Ilona (09:33):
To get.
If they really want to save themarriage, you can file for
divorce or legal separation.
If you don't want to getdivorced, and then they'll have
a real talk and they'll go totherapy or they don't.
If they go to therapy, great.
The reason why in California wehave a six-month waiting period
is to allow people toreconciliate, meaning get back
(09:55):
together if they want to workout their marriage.
You can keep your divorce orlegal separation case active for
three years and do nothingother than just have a petition
that's filed and open and try towork your marriage out.
That's also if you want to seeif they're serious, serve them
with divorce papers or legalseparation.
(10:15):
Maybe then you'll know.
Mila (10:16):
It's important to know like marriage is hard.
A lot of people think, oh, I'mnot going to get therapy because
we can just figure it out.
But marriage is freaking hard.
It is hard to share your lifewith someone because we're all
individuals and then you throw afew kids into the mix and it's
just like chaos and thenfinancial issues and inflation
and everything else.
Like marriage is very hard.
(10:38):
So I think that people think,oh, we'll figure it out.
You're not going to figure itout and anything you're not
changing.
You're choosing.
Ilona (10:46):
Well, we're also presuming that therapy will help
.
First, you have to have areally good therapist.
Second, even if they go totherapy, are they open-minded?
Is this a person that'sself-aware, or is it someone who
is in denial and always blamesyou?
Maybe they have a personalitydisorder and nothing they'll
ever do will be their fault, andit's always you.
You have to maybe go to therapyyourself and see is this the
(11:10):
right situation for you to be in?
So if someone is not wanting togo to family therapy, go to
your own individual therapistand make your own decisions
about who you are.
How do you want to live the restof your life?
Because we only have one lifeto live, and if you're 50, if
you're 30, whatever age you are,think about how many more days
you have left to live.
(11:30):
How do you want to live thosedays?
How do you want your childrento take part in your life?
And what sort of environmenthappy, sad, constant drama,
fighting, you know.
Is this how you want to livethe rest of your days when
you're old?
Do you want your kids to lookback and blame you for keeping
them in that sort of environment?
(11:52):
And it's really up to you.
You may be fearful to be alone,but, like my grandfather said,
it's better to be alone thanjust to be with anyone.
Because if you, you're justwith anyone, and if your husband
or wife are not the same personthat you signed up for, if you
went on a date with them nowyou're like I'm not going out
(12:12):
with you again.
If they're that, then you know,think about what you want.
Mila (12:17):
Well, and I think that's important too, that people
change.
No one is going to stay thesame, you know, and I think a
lot of times in marriage, yearsdown the line, well, you're not
the same person I met.
Yeah, that's normal.
And you can either growtogether or you grow apart.
Ilona (12:33):
Right, that's absolutely correct.
I think I sound like a bigproponent of divorce.
I'm not.
I think marriages are great ifyou are in the right
relationship, but when you areso unhappy and it takes the life
out of you and it takes awayfrom the life of your children,
(12:55):
you know.
Just before you make a big move, seek professional help, see an
individual counselor, figureout who you are, what you want
for yourself and or your kids,and don't be scared because
things will be okay at the endof the day.
Divorce is not easy, but you'llget support along the way and
come out better than you are nowif you're suffering.
Mila (13:17):
Okay.
So next question Red flag orgreen flag?
You have kids and you want tostay for them, even though your
marriage is no longer working.
Ilona (13:27):
I would say it's probably a green flag.
Honestly, if there is nodomestic violence, then if you
can live with it.
Live with it becausepsychologically I think it's
probably better for the kids ifyou can do it.
But if you're so unhappy thatit's poisoning the energy in the
(13:48):
home, if someone is screamingin front of the children, if
there's toxicity that's in frontof them, get the hell out, like
right away.
Do not tolerate it.
Do not tolerate any physicalviolence towards you or your
children.
Thrown objects, screaming.
That all creates trauma foryour kids and for yourself, and
then you absorb it and becomes anorm.
(14:08):
All of that you just got to cutit off.
But if you're just not happybecause there's no more romance,
you know the passion is gone.
That's just normal,unfortunately.
It's normal.
Mila (14:21):
Again, like there are a couple kids in.
And I saw this meme, it wasreally cute.
It was like this old grandmaand grandpa and I was like how
did you stay together for somany years?
And they said we basically gotdivorced like seven times or
something, some crazy number.
They said that you know, therewere times in their 60 year
marriage where they just hatedeach other, couldn't stand each
(14:43):
other, didn't talk, and thenthey did again.
And I think, at the end of theday, you know, humans do feel
most humans desire companionship.
And again, if it's not toxic,is it settling?
I mean, I feel like in modernsociety everyone has this
concept that, oh, you have to behappy, you're not going to be
(15:04):
happy all the time.
Life is hard.
Like you can be unhappy, youhave to be happy, you're not
going to be happy all the time.
Life is hard.
Ilona (15:07):
You can be unhappy single or you can be happy in a family
.
Choose your heart.
Yeah, it is.
If they're a really good parent, then yeah, it's probably worth
sticking through Through boringtimes.
Mila (15:20):
I mean, it's also like you only get your kids for 18 years
and you miss out on half theirlives.
If you get divorced, you knowbest case scenario you get half
custody, you miss out on halftheir lives.
So those are all just thingsthat need to be considered and
weighed when making thisdecision that I think in modern
society people don't reallythink about.
I mean, I've been marriedalmost 13 years, believe it or
(15:41):
not, and it's like to me,marriage is a partnership more
than it is a romanticrelationship and of course
there's romance and there's loveand all of those things.
But once you have kids, it's adaily grind.
It's like you wake up, you havebreakfast, lunches, dinners,
outfits, you know who's takingthe kids to school, who's wiping
the butt today, who's waking upwith a baby Seeing what size
(16:02):
they have grown and what elseyou need to buy the butt today.
Ilona (16:05):
Who's waking up with a baby seeing what size they've
have grown?
Mila (16:06):
or what else you need to buy, amazoning it all day long.
So it's like sitting there likeI I'm sorry if you don't have
that in control and taking careof your actual partnership of
running household duties, thenwho cares about?
Like romance is such asecondary thing to me.
I again being married manyyears.
We're in it, we have small kids, but like that's the last thing
.
Ilona (16:26):
We look romance is nice to have, but reality is that it
disappears and I kind of don'tcare about it anymore either.
I'd rather just I mean, maybewe should not have that on.
There are certain things youdon't care about as much anymore
because other priorities takeover in life and everything
comes in waves right Differentstages, enjoy every part of it
(16:48):
and then you know when.
If you waited later in life tohave children, you probably got
all that out of your system.
If you had children young, theneventually if you're unhappy
now, you'll probably get thatall out of your system later,
when your kids are grown.
But I believe that it's bestfor children to have stability.
If both parents are greatparents, you owe a duty to them
to raise them the best possible,and what happens in your sexual
(17:12):
life or romantic life, that isnot their problem.
Mila (17:17):
I think it's also I mean just from a personal perspective
it's highly undervalued of likethere is also a romance from
seeing your partner Be a goodparent to your kids.
Ilona (17:30):
I don't think men see it.
Maybe we as women see it thatway.
I think men see it that way.
Mila (17:35):
I don't know.
We'll have to ask our viewers.
We'll have to do a poll.
Ilona (17:38):
I think, men see, if you still look good and if you're
attracted, they look at that too, if they're attracted to you.
Mila (17:44):
You can tell me that men don't see their wives or
partners being loving devotedmoms.
Ilona (17:50):
They may say they don't appreciate.
You know how many men I see whocheat on their wives, and just
if they're great mothers.
I mean, come on, in our ownculture, do you think that men
really appreciate that very much?
It just becomes a norm.
People just naturally takethings for granted.
We just do as humans.
Mila (18:06):
It's easy to become adapted to good things, it's
hard to become adapted to badthings.
Ilona (18:13):
You know when bad things happen to us in life, you
realize how much you appreciateother good things, good moments,
right, that's why life is upand down and that's when we
learn our lessons is when thingsget rough.
Mila (18:23):
Oh yeah yeah, it's called fuck around and find out.
Hearing about this really makesme feel even more strongly
about the partnership that youknow our office is making with
One Safe Place, which providesservices to victims of domestic
(18:45):
violence.
Because you know, all of thesedivorce issues are so
complicated, but you throw indomestic violence into the mix,
especially, you know, being avictim of that.
That in and of itself is sodifficult to walk away from.
But in addition to that, thenhaving to deal with all of these
crazy legal obstacles to justget away from a spouse.
Ilona (19:09):
If you cannot afford a lawyer full scope, meaning to
represent you in an entiredivorce proceeding, you can hire
an attorney or even a paralegaltheir paralegal services to
draft the paperwork for you andget it filed.
So you have it.
You get it going, and thenthere's legal advice.
Okay, what are your rightsabout property division?
What assets exist, what do youknow about what you don't know
(19:31):
about?
And how do you get informationabout what you don't know about?
And that's the discoveryprocess that attorneys can
advise with.
And then there's custodyvisitation and for anybody who
has children, that's the mostimportant issue, and people
normally find the money, even ifthey don't have the money, to
fight for their children.
It's kind of like when I wasdoing criminal law, when, early
(19:54):
in my career 20 years ago,people that you wouldn't think
had money would find mattressmoney to come and defend
themselves in criminal lawproceedings.
I think the same thing happenswhen it comes to children, and
because this is the mostimportant issue and people don't
want to lose their kids, haveyou ever had a case that really
affected you as a mom thatinvolves kids?
(20:16):
Yes, it is the case thatfortunately was resolved about a
year ago, and it was a casethat I thought there has to be
justice served in this one.
Before I die, because I wouldhate to just know that nobody
heard this child and nobodyheard my client.
(20:36):
I think we're going to have heras a guest on our show.
I became her lawyer in 2019after she represented herself in
a family law proceeding.
She went from having 100%custody of her child to losing
it just because she was in frontof a different judicial officer
(20:57):
.
That took saw the casedifferent and she's a very good
woman.
My client was a doctor.
She's smart.
I love her as a person, but incourt she was not the same
person.
She was out of court becauseit's hard to be the same when
you're fighting for something incourt.
She was not the same person.
That she was out of courtbecause it's hard to be the same
when you're fighting forsomething in court.
Mila (21:15):
It's emotional, it's very hard to step outside of yourself
, yeah.
Ilona (21:18):
And she was in her mindset.
She was a mama bear that's whatshe called herself, but she was
too much of a mama bear for thecourt's liking, yeah, and it
backfired on her and she lostcustody, her and she lost
custody.
And it was a battle, afive-year battle, where,
unfortunately, the child was avictim in all this, and when the
(21:39):
ruling was issued last year, itwas the most touching and I
don't know how to describe it,but it was life-changing for
that family.
It was life-changing for me asa lawyer too, like a great
relief, like thank God, thatthis child is finally back with
(22:01):
her mom, because her mom wasright the whole time, in my
opinion, and nobody heard thechild when she was trying to
explain how terrible her lifewas with father, with whom she
was placed, but nobody believedher because my you know my
client wasn't liked.
So nobody listened to the childand all that my client was
doing was repeating what thischild was telling her because
(22:22):
she believed her child Like Iwould believe my child.
Yeah, children sometimes maybeexaggerate things, but when they
say the same thing over andover again and you, you know the
other person because you livewith them or you know their
propensities.
You know you.
You would go and repeat.
I think that's what normalparent will do.
You should go and tell thecourt what it is and that's what
(22:44):
she did.
But that's the case where thischild has not seen her mom for
years.
After adhering after a momrepresented herself and years
into it were fighting forcustody and visitation and it
was a difficult battle she wasfinally reunited with her, and
for good, I believe stuck withme as a mom.
Mila (23:13):
He said you know, it's one thing if you don't see your
child because you don't want toor you don't have time, but when
someone tells you you cannotsee your child, it's a
completely different feeling.
Ilona (23:21):
You feel crippled and I think it's important to bring
angry angry and then you go tocourt and represent yourself
being angry at the orders thatare made.
It's like it doesn't matter ifI'm a lawyer and I know what to
do in family court.
If it was about me, I wouldn'tbe my normal self in court.
If it was about my kids thething when it's about those
(23:43):
sensitive issues, it is trulybest to have an attorney who
will put it eloquently in frontof the judge than the way you
would expose your raw emotionsabout how you really feel about
everything.
Mila (23:54):
I mean, I deal with similar issues in the employment
law context just because peoplewhen they lose their jobs is
the same thing, I mean, and alot, of, a lot of times, these
people are also parents and theyall of a sudden don't know
where their rent is going tocome from or how their kids are
going to eat.
So it does become extremelyemotional and it is our jobs as
lawyers to manage those emotions.
(24:17):
But I do think it's importantto note that.
You know, in the legal context,this is such an important issue
that I feel like doesn't gettalked about enough is that
judges cannot always be neutral.
Right, like they're supposed tobe neutral, they're supposed to
look at a case from a neutralperspective and make a neutral
finding.
But you know, at the end of theday, everyone has their
(24:40):
emotions and their you knowpreconceptions.
So, you know, in a situationlike that, where the judge made
a judgment on the mom based onwhat the judge was seeing and
not who the mom actually wasLike, it's important to.
I think our judicial officersneed massive implicit bias
(25:04):
training.
Ilona (25:05):
They get it.
But in family court, we knowthat you may get a different
ruling from one department toanother depending on who the
judicial officer is, Because,whether you want to or not,
we're not computers.
We're all humans and everybodydoes bring their own experiences
and opinions as to how they aregoing to raise their kids and
what they think is right or, ifthey don't have kids, what they
(25:29):
believe you should do.
Mila (25:31):
So it matters who your judicial officer is, in a way,
and you can't know that unlessyou have an attorney.
Correct, which is why it's soimperative to if you can,
however, you can take out a loan, but have someone who is able
to represent you if you're goingthrough this process, if it's
complicated, right, like if it'svery contested and there are
(25:51):
kids involved and it gets dirtyit's much better to have an
attorney represent you than itis to try to represent yourself.
Ilona (26:00):
Yes, especially when it comes to protecting your
children, because when you'regoing through a divorce and
you're a victim of domesticviolence, it just becomes normal
and then you may allow accessto the other parent to your
children who will continueabusing them, whether it's
verbal or emotional or otherabuse.
And sometimes the best pathcould be to get them help first,
(26:21):
to take parenting classes ortake anger management classes,
take domestic violence classesbefore they have access.
They should earn their right tobe a better parent.
Some may want it, some may not.
I think another difficulty isthat there are a lot of single
parents.
Access.
They should earn their right tobe a better parent.
Some may want it, some may not.
You know, I think anotherdifficulty is that there are a
lot of single parents, whetherit's a single dad or single mom.
(26:42):
It is difficult to be a singleparent when you have a job and
mouths to feed and then youcan't even afford a lawyer.
I've seen that in court.
Once I remember I was walkingthrough the hallway and I saw
this single mom with a newbornnewborn who was crying and she
had two other children and sheyelled at them and that was
before I had children and I justthought, oh my God, she's
treating her children soterribly.
I'm like she should be reportedchild welfare services.
(27:04):
This is child abuse.
She, you know.
She hit the one kid and thenshe was yelling at the other and
I'm like, oh my God, I canimagine what's happening in her
house and how these children aretreated if that's how it is in
the hallway.
So of course, I just likestared at her, giving her dirty
look and she kind of told me,off off, but I don't know what
to do.
Okay, are these kids going tobe better off without their mom
(27:24):
and with some strangers?
Or are they going to be betteroff with the other parent who is
over there in the in front of ajudge and she's probably
waiting for them?
I don't know.
You can't make that decision,because what if she's just
having a bad day?
She just needs to get sleep orshe needs some emotional support
or she needs some help.
But she's a really excellentmom.
She's just having a reallyshitty day.
(27:45):
You don't know that.
It's easy to judge just based onthat, but ultimately you have
to get the full picture andthat's what's important.
When you come in front of ajudge, you have 20 to 40 minutes
on calendar generally to havethe judge form an opinion and
know your story, make an order.
That's going to impact you forthe next possibly year or a
couple of years or even sixmonths until whenever you return
(28:08):
to court 20 to 40 minutes tomake an impression.
All the paperwork that youfiled before that telling your
story and evidence you submit insupport of it will help the
judge make that decision.
So it is extremely importantand how you carry yourself in
court is very important.
If you lose your cool in court,that's going to impact the
(28:29):
order a judge will make or wasgoing to make.
It could change the judge'sopinion about what the order
they were going to make based onthe pleadings.
Mila (28:36):
That's the irony, like real narcissists are able to not
have emotions.
Ilona (28:42):
That is true.
Mila (28:43):
To be controlled, so a lot of times you do have these
situations where one party whois just very emotional and you
know like a really great personpotentially is emotional it
comes off as worse than anarcissist who is able to
maintain their cool.
Ilona (28:58):
That happens so much, it happens so much where, like in
the guests we're going to havecoming on our show, that's what
happened to her.
She was real, she was raw andshe was telling the truth.
The other party could influenceanybody, from police officers
to supervised monitors to allprofessionals involved, because
he was always so nice and sosweet but what was happening
(29:19):
inside the home was not in thebest interest of the child and
she knew best, the child knewbest, but nobody believed him
because he was like that.
And another case I've donerecently I took a deposition of
this guy, history of domesticviolence with multiple women.
But he's very likable and whenyou question him, you talk to
(29:40):
him, you can see how he canmanipulate women, he can
manipulate lawyers, he canmanipulate the court.
If you just have 20 to 40minutes with that person to make
an impression, it's going to bea different impression than
years of story, years ofexperiences, negative experience
someone has lived through andwho is more emotional, who is
(30:00):
more raw, who can really tell itwell, without seeming off
balance relative to that otherperson, who may have a
personality disorder, otherpsychological issues and, as we,
you know, many know those whohave grown up in homes where
they've experienced domesticviolence normally are repeated.
That's not always the case, butthat happens.
Some children learn from it andwant to be better parents and
(30:22):
not do the same thing, notrepeat it.
But I think that percentagepales in comparison to where
it's repeated in the household.
Mila (30:28):
So for someone going through this right now you know
they're learning they will havea 20 to 40 minute window to make
an impression on the judicialofficer.
What is your best advice tothem?
Ilona (30:40):
Well, dress professionally to court.
Keep your cool.
Do not shake your head, makenoise or act crazy in front of a
judge.
Be respectful In your pleadings.
Be as detailed as possible.
Do not exaggerate, do not lie.
Tell the facts as they are.
Be chronological meaning.
Put the dates.
Include supporting evidencewith your declaration.
(31:02):
Don't just say things happened.
Explain when they happened, whowas present, who was there and
do you have proof of importantinformation that would help the
judge believe you more than theother side, help the judge
believe you more than the otherside.
So generally, before custody andvisitation hearing, parties go
to mandatory mediation beforethey can appear in front of a
judge, and this mediation is notsomeone you have to pay, it's
(31:24):
free.
Through court.
Both parties appear and then areport is prepared in the
reporting counties and innon-reporting counties there is
no report.
If you don't reach an agreement, then you just go in front of a
judge.
So the judge needs evidenceyour declaration explaining why
it is in the your children'sbest interest to be with you and
(31:46):
for the other parent to have avisitation schedule.
If it's about support childsupport, spouse support or any
financial issues, explain whatyour understanding of the
financial issues are and whatsupports that understanding?
Because you have to give thecourt evidence.
In financial situations.
It's going to be, you know,supported with tax returns, pay
stubs statements, bankstatements that show deposits.
(32:09):
Submit it together, refer to itin your declaration, just like
number it.
Okayhibit one is my tax return.
Okay, I believe he makes$200,000.
Here's it's based on 2024 taxreturns.
Here's a copy.
Or you know, he hit my child.
I don't have any audio evidenceor video evidence, but I have a
photograph.
(32:29):
Or maybe you don't have aphotograph.
If you have one, attach it ifthere's a bruise.
If you have one, attach it ifthere's a bruise.
But you have a witness,somebody who saw the bruise.
Okay, the following witness sawthis, or I shared it with this
person and you put the name innow you can ask for a witness.
Mila (32:46):
Statements, right?
You can ask for witnessdeclarations as well.
Ilona (32:49):
So as much evidence to support what you're saying.
He is a detailed declarationexplaining why you should get
the relief you're asking for andthen supporting evidence.
So the court believes you.
Mila (33:04):
Over the other side, Two things you said there that
deserve to be emphasized.
I think number one is thatdon't lie or over exaggerate,
because I think a lot of peoplewill go into and this happens in
every legal proceeding, nomatter what field it is.
You know people want to telltheir story and there's a lot of
(33:25):
emotions involved and they maynot have any malicious intent in
over exaggerating.
But you know, if there are grayareas, keep those out, because
all of those things could beused against you later.
If you're caught in a lie in afamily law matter, I can
anticipate that would be really,really bad news over 75 percent
(33:46):
of people in california cannotafford to have a lawyer and
they're self-represented.
Ilona (33:50):
Unfortunately, a lot of lies go unpunished and the best
thing you can do against that isgather written photographic
evidence to support your claimfrom the beginning.
So when the court makes initialorders, you start off on the
right foot, because if you comeunprepared, if you don't have
(34:11):
your documents, you're going toget an order you're not going to
like.
They'll be too low when itcomes to child support it
They'll be too low when it comesto child support.
It's going to be too low whenit comes to spouse support.
That may not be fair or in thebest interest of your children,
because you didn't have time orability to articulate it in
writing or verbally in court.
Some people are good in writing, some people are good speaking,
but if you're coming to courtfor a first time and presenting
(34:33):
new evidence you're not put inwriting for the court to
consider in advance.
The court will not consider it,most likely if the other side
objects.
Mila (34:42):
I think it's interesting Family law and criminal law are
the only two fields of the lawwhere you don't really opt to be
part of it.
Right If you're filing a civillawsuit, I mean, unless you're a
defendant.
But you kind of you know youget to choose Do you want to
file a civil lawsuit or no?
But in criminal you have todefend yourself and in family
(35:03):
law you have to defend yourselfor bring the case against your
spouse and figure out the legalsystem.
As a lay person that's tough.
Ilona (35:11):
The day you have children .
You're pretty much signing upto be in family court if
something is not going to workout, whether you're married or
not, because whether you'remarried or not, if you have
children, child support may beat issue at some point, until
your kids turn 18 or 19, ifthey're in high school and
custody visitation, so you signup for it.
(35:33):
People don't think about it,but that's the reality.
So pick carefully who you screwwith.
Mila (35:41):
I read an article that said celebrity divorces are on
the rise.
I mean, some of the ones I'vebeen seeing are crazy.
So in your opinion, is marriagedead?
Ilona (35:50):
No, I think people want to be romantic and getting
married is part of that romanticstory.
Think people want to beromantic and getting married is
part of that romantic story.
The reason why I believecelebrity divorces are on the
rise is in part becausecelebrities have totally
different lives than we do.
It's not like it's 1950s whereyou stayed married and maybe
husbands did what they wantedand had affairs and wife stayed
home and just tolerated it.
(36:10):
Now people don't tolerate thatsort of stuff.
Everybody's their ownindividuals and a difference
with celebrities is they haveassets to protect.
They may not spend as much timetogether because if they're
traveling, if they have bookingsout of the country, there is
not as much time for developingthe relationship versus when you
(36:33):
just look at someone else andhave hots for them because
they're this perfect person on aTV show or in a movie somewhere
, and then you start living withthem and you smell their dirty
socks and you know what they'relike when they don't take a
shower or whatever else and youreally see their real side.
Maybe that's not what I reallywanted or signed up for, but it
(36:54):
depends how long you date.
Mila (36:57):
That's a huge part of it that, again, people don't think
about.
Marriage is not like cuteInstagram pictures and wedding
dresses and like happy moments.
Marriage is like morning breathand all of the bad habits and
all of the baggage that everyperson has.
You see, you see, you see.
So, unless you can toleratethat and are willing to tolerate
(37:20):
that, marriage is probably notfor you.
Ilona (37:22):
I mean for celebrities.
Is there really a point to getmarried, and you'll have a
prenup?
Most likely that's a good idea.
But even with prenups, peoplecan still try to litigate them
and cause one part of it to beunenforceable or a certain
provision to be void.
So it's risky to get marriedmay sound romantic, but is I
don't know if it's a good idea.
(37:42):
If you have money, a lot ofmoney, somebody can go after to
get married, especially if youare an older celebrity with
younger people, like for, forexample, I am kind of disgusted
by what's his name.
What's the old guy that just hadkids?
Robert De Niro?
Yeah, robert De Niro.
He used to be my favorite actor.
Now I don't like Robert De Niroanymore because he's gross.
(38:07):
Not only does he have childrenthat are older than us, but he
now has a child with someoneyounger than us.
That's like in her 20s.
He's like an 80-, 80 year oldguy sleeping with 20 year olds.
That's nasty.
Now I think there are certainthings that are nasty and guess
what?
You know where the punishmentcomes in for someone like that?
Not that he deserves to bepunished, but technically it's
like a rape, because you're well, they're adults, but you're
(38:28):
like there were kids when he wasgrown up.
It's kind of nasty.
Forget all that.
Let me just rephrase it fromprofessional perspective.
Okay, like someone like RobertDe Niro, who you know he'll
sleep with anyone who will sleepwith him.
But the nasty person whodoesn't care is sleeping with an
(38:49):
eight year old gold digger,obviously, because really who
would want to sleep with himother than his money right now
to have a baby with him?
I mean, it's not the baby'sfault God bless the baby but the
nasty girls who go after oldfarts to have babies with them
to get their money.
I mean the guy is going to endup in court and be paying child
(39:12):
support and a lot of it, andthat already has happened.
I think I've seen articleswhere she was asking for a lot
of money right away, likeshortly after the baby's born.
It's like you're an idiot, youwant to have some sex.
I'm sorry, but you might aswell then just have a I'm pretty
sure they're not having thatmuch sex.
Yeah, it's like she just gotpregnant and had a baby with him
(39:33):
to get money.
Mila (39:36):
But yeah, it's like she just got pregnant and had a baby
with him to get money.
But how stupid men are.
So we have a question from oneof our viewers that we want you
to address.
Our viewer asked how do Iprotect my kids emotionally
while I'm going through divorce?
Ilona (39:48):
I think it's a good idea to get them into therapy so they
understand that the divorce isnot their fault.
Therapy so they understand thatthe divorce is not their fault.
In different counties there aredifferent programs that are for
the children where they havesupport groups with other
children, that whose parents aregetting divorced, and there are
also parenting groups that, ifyou're co-parenting, that you
(40:11):
can attend to better deliver thebreakup of the marriage to your
kids.
But how to help them is do notinvolve the children in the
middle of your court drama.
The courts normally make anorder to not expose the children
to court papers or any courtinformation.
(40:31):
Now many people cannot helpthemselves and they still do
that.
But obviously that's best forthe children not to be worried
about your problems, because itcreates a lot of anxiety inside.
Get them a therapist if you canTake them to their therapy
appointments.
If you can't make time to drivethem, get them a virtual one
and stay out of their therapyappointments.
Mila (40:50):
Don't butt in and be in the background and insurance
will cover a lot of therapyappointments.
Ilona (40:56):
Yes, and ask them do they like their therapist?
Because some therapists aregood, some are not.
Mila (40:59):
you know, it makes a difference I have a friend who,
like just a shout out to hershe's amazing because she's
going through a really nastydivorce and they have three kids
and she's going through it likethe guy's an alcoholic.
It's awful and every time shetalks to me about her divorce
she makes sure her kids are notaround.
She will never even though he'sput her through hell and back
(41:20):
and continues to do so she willnever, ever say one bad word
about him in front of the kids.
Ilona (41:25):
That's the best thing.
Do not bring your children toan attorney's office.
Do not talk on a speakerphoneabout your divorce with anyone
friends, family or your lawyerswhen your children are in the
car.
Do not expose them to anything,even if you want to be the good
guy and know what's going on.
Just don't do it.
It's not good.
They'll figure things out ontheir own.
(41:46):
You know when I say that do notexpose them.
Sometimes the parent needs tofind out what's happening in the
other parent's home, and,although you may not want to
question the child, if you hearthem mentioning something that's
questionable or problematic orraises concerns about their
safety, possibly they're beingneglected, they're not fed, they
don't get clean clothes, maybesomeone's girlfriend is
(42:08):
mistreating them, maybe there'sa mean dog that's a danger to
them, maybe there are drugsin-house anything then of that's
different Then you should findout what's happening, because
you have a duty to protect them.
But again, do not exaggerate.
Really, get to the truth, andif your child says something to
you that you can possiblyconfront the other side about
(42:29):
through text message and emailor in person, depending on who
they are then do it.
If you feel like the child isgoing to be punished because you
asked them and they told youand they're scared that the
other parent will be upset withthem because they've told you
something, then there's adifferent way to go about it.
Mila (42:51):
And I think there are sensitive ways to dig into that,
without you know, keeping inmind children's proclivities to
you know, exaggerate andprobably please you.
There are sensitive ways to askthose questions that are not
leading.
Ilona (43:10):
And also delivering the message, like if a child says
something to you.
I can see myself just likesending a text right away in
anger, like did you do this andthat?
And it sounds it will soundconfrontational.
So I think the best thing is tostop yourself and not send the
text.
But you know, find a, maybewrite it in your notes and and
then read it next day or edit itor ask chat, gpt, make my text
(43:35):
message sound nicer, and it will.
Mila (43:36):
Yeah, I will do that.
Do you know?
Abraham Lincoln had this thingwhere every time he would get
mad at someone, he would write aletter, put it in the mailbox
and his wife would take it outand not let it be sent, and as a
result he had like the bestrelationships with everyone.
Later he found out that she didthat and he realized it's like
a thing when you're mad atsomeone, you write them a letter
(43:56):
, put out all of your rage andthen don't send it.
Ilona (44:03):
No, I didn't know that.
But I guess what you can donowadays with emails and is send
it on delay to someone else andthen cancel it if you change
your mind or edit it oh, that'stoo risky or email it yourself
to yourself.
Mila (44:10):
No, don't I like the chat.
Ilona (44:12):
GPT-ID.
Mila (44:15):
Divorce might break your heart, but it doesn't have to
break your glow.
Ilona (44:19):
So my glam tip create a divorce ritual or just burn all
the stuff that belongs to yourex, Cut the cords, clean your
space, donate the stuff thatcarries the bad energy and
reclaim your home.
Or make a vision board Newgoals, new vibes.
It works.
Divorce is hard, but it doesn'tdefine you.
It can be a new beginning, abetter beginning and an end to
(44:41):
what no longer is good for you.
Mila (44:43):
And we're here to remind you that, even in a time that
feels like a grind, there'salways room for a little glam
Subscribe to keep us part ofyour glam routine.
See you next time on theGlamorous Grind.
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where law meets lifestyle
and the drama is always legallybinding.
Ilona (00:07):
Today we're pulling back the curtain on one of the most
misunderstood and the mostemotional legal processes
divorce.
Mila (00:15):
From the moment you start thinking should I leave To the
paperwork, the court dates, thecustody and the healing.
Ilona (00:22):
This is your crash course on what to expect, the custody
and the healing.
This is your crash course onwhat to expect.
We'll break it down from startto finish.
Talk about red flags and whatit might mean, when it's time to
go and how to protect yourpeace through the chaos.
Mila (00:33):
No guests this week, it's just the two of us.
So let's go deep and give youyour free consultation on what
to expect when you're separated.
So I think a lot of people,when they file for divorce, they
have no idea what to expect,which is why we're doing this
(00:55):
episode right, like a freeconsultation.
Talk to us about once you file,like once you file the
paperwork, what happens?
Do you have to go stand infront of a judge and talk about
anything?
Or, you know, is it?
Is it less formalized than that?
Ilona (01:10):
Just because you filed for a petition for divorce to
initiate the case, all you'regoing to get is a case
management conference or astatus conference in six months,
which is the judge who wants toknow.
Okay, do you serve thepaperwork?
Are you guys negotiating anysettlement terms?
Do you need to go to mediation?
Is there a discovery exchangeof financial information
happening?
So, just because you opened upa case, nothing will happen.
(01:33):
You're not going to have toappear in front of a judge
unless you make a specificrequest for relief and ask for a
court hearing in front of ajudge asking the court to make
child support orders or spousesupport orders or attorney fee
orders or attorney fee orders orany other relief you need.
Mila (01:47):
So that happens if you file for divorce and you have to
go through the process.
But what happens when youresolve it privately?
You discussed mediation.
How does that look?
Ilona (02:01):
You can go to mediation at any time.
It's also a good idea toexchange settlement offers
before you appear in court tosee if you can resolve it
through what's calledstipulation and order.
Stipulation is just a fancyword for an agreement and that
agreement then is turned into anorder because the judge signs
(02:21):
off on your agreement.
You don't have to have a judgedecide of what the order should
be.
You agree and decide what thejudge should sign to be in order
.
For example, if you're trying tonegotiate child support or
spouse support or attorney'sfees, if there's no court
hearing on calendar, it may takea long time for you to
negotiate and possibly not reachan agreement.
(02:42):
Maybe you will, but in case ifyou don't, there's a hearing on
calendar, then you go and youget it done.
It's good to go to mediation,but you should make an informed
decision, knowing what yourrights are.
If you want to give everythingaway to your spouse, 80% of it
or 60% or 70%, that's absolutelyfine, just as long as you know
(03:03):
what you're entitled to andyou're doing it knowingly and
voluntarily, with material factsdisclosed to you.
Mila (03:13):
So mediator is a third party, neutral, that comes in,
listens to both sides and kindof advises and tries to resolve
the situation, right, yes, so ina divorce proceeding, who pays
for the mediator?
Because they charge on anhourly basis, right, yes, so in
a divorce proceeding, who paysfor the mediator Because they
charge on an hourly?
Ilona (03:25):
basis right, they do.
Usually the spouse thatcontrols the money advances the
cost subject to allocation,meaning they'll pay for it, and
then at the end, when you'redividing the assets, the parties
may agree that they'll sharethe cost of the mediator 50-50,
and it's going to come off fromsome bank account or equity
(03:46):
that's in the house, orgenerally the one that has more
money pays for it.
Mila (03:50):
So let me ask you a question that I think a lot of
people would want to know In themeantime, while all of these
negotiations are happening,what's going on with the money?
Because I know in a lot ofsituations, you know, a woman or
sometimes a man doesn't workand then they decide to file for
divorce.
Regardless of which partydecides to file for divorce, a
(04:13):
lot of times they'll have tomove out separately.
Sometimes they stay together,but there are costs that need to
be paid, and if one of theparties has no income, how do
they pay for those costs whilethe divorce proceedings are
ongoing, before the financialsituation is resolved?
Ilona (04:30):
Well, it depends If sometimes the spouse who
controls the money will continuepaying all the bills and giving
you same unrestricted access tothe credit cards and bank
accounts so you can spend whatyou want on life.
So you have no incentive thento go to court.
And bank accounts so you canspend what you want on life.
So you have no incentive thento go to court and file for
(04:50):
child support and spouse supportand attorney's fees.
But I mean you may still havean incentive because you know
what exists to divide it.
In other cases, if the otherside is not so nice to give you
unrestricted access or limits onwhat you can spend, then you
should rush to file for childsupport and spouse support and
attorney's fees so that you canhave representation, so you can
(05:11):
get the child support awardthat's guideline minimum in
California and spouse supportaward.
Mila (05:20):
How long does the motion usually take Is?
Ilona (05:23):
it a motion.
It's a motion.
You have to file a request foran order so the judge can make
an order From the moment youfile it.
It takes about 60 to 90 days toget a hearing date.
If you settle it in advance,great.
If you don't, then you go andthe judge will make an order
based on the financials thatyou've presented, both yours and
the other side.
Mila (05:42):
This is a question that's always in my mind when I see a
partnership that's falling apartand one partner makes money and
the other one doesn't.
What if they completely cut offtheir funds?
And that person, if it takes 60to 90 days to get a motion on
(06:03):
calendar to get spousal supportor child support in that 60 to
90 days, get a motion oncalendar to get spousal support
or child support In that 60 to90 days, how are they supposed
to survive?
And the spouse that cut themoff and is not paying them
during that time?
Is there anything punitive youcan do to them for being so
unreasonable?
Because divorce changes people.
From everything I've seen,people can get really nasty in
divorce.
Ilona (06:25):
I've seen people can get really nasty in divorce.
That is true.
Unfortunately, the only thingyou can do is appear ex parte,
that means on emergency basis,explain your situation, that you
have no means to live andsupport your children yourself
and ask for the court to advancethe hearing date to be heard
sooner.
It's called order shorteningtime, so just advancing the
hearing from 60 to 90 dayswhenever it's scheduled to be
(06:48):
sooner, maybe in two weeks Ifthe court denies the request.
If you don't have exigentcircumstances, then you will
just have to borrow money untilyour court hearing date or ask
for public assistance,unfortunately, or ask for family
and friends for help.
Mila (07:04):
What's blowing my mind right now?
And I'm an attorney, I have adoctorate degree, I passed the
bar on the first time, but a lotof this stuff is going over my
head because I've neverpracticed in this field.
So I can't imagine as a layperson coming into this if you
can't afford an attorney.
I can't even fathom how scaryand difficult it must be.
(07:26):
And I know there are servicesthat the state provides and the
counties provide and things likethat, but it's just it feels
like it's so complex and sodifficult.
Ilona (07:40):
The best thing you can do if you cannot afford a lawyer
is go to court and make anappointment with Family Law
Facilitator's office.
They're going to give you theforms packet to fill out.
They'll do their best to helpyou fill it out.
They have law studentsvolunteering and they're managed
by a supervising attorney.
At least you'll get somethingfiled and get it on calendar to
(08:01):
get a court hearing date.
It's best to do something thannothing, because if you don't
take action, if you don't take aday to go and get those forms
and file them, just let the timepass by, even if the other
spouse is going to benon-cooperative in the process.
As long as you get thepaperwork filed and get it on
calendar, the court preservesjurisdiction back to the date of
(08:24):
filing your petition.
That means you're preservingthe time back to the date when
you filed your petition, thateven if your hearing is in 90
days or in 60 days or even in ayear let's say somebody really
delays the process you can getyour child support and spouse
support back to the date offiling the petition if you asked
(08:47):
for it and checked all theproper boxes, and that's why the
Family Law Facilitator's Officewill help you with that and
every courthouse and everycounty in California has that
Family Law Facilitator's Officeto help people who cannot afford
an attorney.
Mila (09:00):
Okay, so now we'll play red flag, green flag, so I will
be asking questions and you tellme if it's a red flag or a
green flag.
So the first question I want toask and I see this all the time
, especially from coming from,you know, an ex-Soviet, middle
Eastern-ish background peopledon't want to get therapy,
(09:21):
people do not want to gettherapy.
So your spouse refuses to gettherapy but keeps telling you
they're going to change Red flagor green flag.
Of course it's a red flag.
Ilona (09:33):
To get.
If they really want to save themarriage, you can file for
divorce or legal separation.
If you don't want to getdivorced, and then they'll have
a real talk and they'll go totherapy or they don't.
If they go to therapy, great.
The reason why in California wehave a six-month waiting period
is to allow people toreconciliate, meaning get back
(09:55):
together if they want to workout their marriage.
You can keep your divorce orlegal separation case active for
three years and do nothingother than just have a petition
that's filed and open and try towork your marriage out.
That's also if you want to seeif they're serious, serve them
with divorce papers or legalseparation.
(10:15):
Maybe then you'll know.
Mila (10:16):
It's important to know like marriage is hard.
A lot of people think, oh, I'mnot going to get therapy because
we can just figure it out.
But marriage is freaking hard.
It is hard to share your lifewith someone because we're all
individuals and then you throw afew kids into the mix and it's
just like chaos and thenfinancial issues and inflation
and everything else.
Like marriage is very hard.
(10:38):
So I think that people think,oh, we'll figure it out.
You're not going to figure itout and anything you're not
changing.
You're choosing.
Ilona (10:46):
Well, we're also presuming that therapy will help
.
First, you have to have areally good therapist.
Second, even if they go totherapy, are they open-minded?
Is this a person that'sself-aware, or is it someone who
is in denial and always blamesyou?
Maybe they have a personalitydisorder and nothing they'll
ever do will be their fault, andit's always you.
You have to maybe go to therapyyourself and see is this the
(11:10):
right situation for you to be in?
So if someone is not wanting togo to family therapy, go to
your own individual therapistand make your own decisions
about who you are.
How do you want to live the restof your life?
Because we only have one lifeto live, and if you're 50, if
you're 30, whatever age you are,think about how many more days
you have left to live.
(11:30):
How do you want to live thosedays?
How do you want your childrento take part in your life?
And what sort of environmenthappy, sad, constant drama,
fighting, you know.
Is this how you want to livethe rest of your days when
you're old?
Do you want your kids to lookback and blame you for keeping
them in that sort of environment?
(11:52):
And it's really up to you.
You may be fearful to be alone,but, like my grandfather said,
it's better to be alone thanjust to be with anyone.
Because if you, you're justwith anyone, and if your husband
or wife are not the same personthat you signed up for, if you
went on a date with them nowyou're like I'm not going out
(12:12):
with you again.
If they're that, then you know,think about what you want.
Mila (12:17):
Well, and I think that's important too, that people
change.
No one is going to stay thesame, you know, and I think a
lot of times in marriage, yearsdown the line, well, you're not
the same person I met.
Yeah, that's normal.
And you can either growtogether or you grow apart.
Ilona (12:33):
Right, that's absolutely correct.
I think I sound like a bigproponent of divorce.
I'm not.
I think marriages are great ifyou are in the right
relationship, but when you areso unhappy and it takes the life
out of you and it takes awayfrom the life of your children,
(12:55):
you know.
Just before you make a big move, seek professional help, see an
individual counselor, figureout who you are, what you want
for yourself and or your kids,and don't be scared because
things will be okay at the endof the day.
Divorce is not easy, but you'llget support along the way and
come out better than you are nowif you're suffering.
Mila (13:17):
Okay.
So next question Red flag orgreen flag?
You have kids and you want tostay for them, even though your
marriage is no longer working.
Ilona (13:27):
I would say it's probably a green flag.
Honestly, if there is nodomestic violence, then if you
can live with it.
Live with it becausepsychologically I think it's
probably better for the kids ifyou can do it.
But if you're so unhappy thatit's poisoning the energy in the
(13:48):
home, if someone is screamingin front of the children, if
there's toxicity that's in frontof them, get the hell out, like
right away.
Do not tolerate it.
Do not tolerate any physicalviolence towards you or your
children.
Thrown objects, screaming.
That all creates trauma foryour kids and for yourself, and
then you absorb it and becomes anorm.
(14:08):
All of that you just got to cutit off.
But if you're just not happybecause there's no more romance,
you know the passion is gone.
That's just normal,unfortunately.
It's normal.
Mila (14:21):
Again, like there are a couple kids in.
And I saw this meme, it wasreally cute.
It was like this old grandmaand grandpa and I was like how
did you stay together for somany years?
And they said we basically gotdivorced like seven times or
something, some crazy number.
They said that you know, therewere times in their 60 year
marriage where they just hatedeach other, couldn't stand each
(14:43):
other, didn't talk, and thenthey did again.
And I think, at the end of theday, you know, humans do feel
most humans desire companionship.
And again, if it's not toxic,is it settling?
I mean, I feel like in modernsociety everyone has this
concept that, oh, you have to behappy, you're not going to be
(15:04):
happy all the time.
Life is hard.
Like you can be unhappy, youhave to be happy, you're not
going to be happy all the time.
Life is hard.
Ilona (15:07):
You can be unhappy single or you can be happy in a family
.
Choose your heart.
Yeah, it is.
If they're a really good parent, then yeah, it's probably worth
sticking through Through boringtimes.
Mila (15:20):
I mean, it's also like you only get your kids for 18 years
and you miss out on half theirlives.
If you get divorced, you knowbest case scenario you get half
custody, you miss out on halftheir lives.
So those are all just thingsthat need to be considered and
weighed when making thisdecision that I think in modern
society people don't reallythink about.
I mean, I've been marriedalmost 13 years, believe it or
(15:41):
not, and it's like to me,marriage is a partnership more
than it is a romanticrelationship and of course
there's romance and there's loveand all of those things.
But once you have kids, it's adaily grind.
It's like you wake up, you havebreakfast, lunches, dinners,
outfits, you know who's takingthe kids to school, who's wiping
the butt today, who's waking upwith a baby Seeing what size
(16:02):
they have grown and what elseyou need to buy the butt today.
Ilona (16:05):
Who's waking up with a baby seeing what size they've
have grown?
Mila (16:06):
or what else you need to buy, amazoning it all day long.
So it's like sitting there likeI I'm sorry if you don't have
that in control and taking careof your actual partnership of
running household duties, thenwho cares about?
Like romance is such asecondary thing to me.
I again being married manyyears.
We're in it, we have small kids, but like that's the last thing
.
Ilona (16:26):
We look romance is nice to have, but reality is that it
disappears and I kind of don'tcare about it anymore either.
I'd rather just I mean, maybewe should not have that on.
There are certain things youdon't care about as much anymore
because other priorities takeover in life and everything
comes in waves right Differentstages, enjoy every part of it
(16:48):
and then you know when.
If you waited later in life tohave children, you probably got
all that out of your system.
If you had children young, theneventually if you're unhappy
now, you'll probably get thatall out of your system later,
when your kids are grown.
But I believe that it's bestfor children to have stability.
If both parents are greatparents, you owe a duty to them
to raise them the best possible,and what happens in your sexual
(17:12):
life or romantic life, that isnot their problem.
Mila (17:17):
I think it's also I mean just from a personal perspective
it's highly undervalued of likethere is also a romance from
seeing your partner Be a goodparent to your kids.
Ilona (17:30):
I don't think men see it.
Maybe we as women see it thatway.
I think men see it that way.
Mila (17:35):
I don't know.
We'll have to ask our viewers.
We'll have to do a poll.
Ilona (17:38):
I think, men see, if you still look good and if you're
attracted, they look at that too, if they're attracted to you.
Mila (17:44):
You can tell me that men don't see their wives or
partners being loving devotedmoms.
Ilona (17:50):
They may say they don't appreciate.
You know how many men I see whocheat on their wives, and just
if they're great mothers.
I mean, come on, in our ownculture, do you think that men
really appreciate that very much?
It just becomes a norm.
People just naturally takethings for granted.
We just do as humans.
Mila (18:06):
It's easy to become adapted to good things, it's
hard to become adapted to badthings.
Ilona (18:13):
You know when bad things happen to us in life, you
realize how much you appreciateother good things, good moments,
right, that's why life is upand down and that's when we
learn our lessons is when thingsget rough.
Mila (18:23):
Oh yeah yeah, it's called fuck around and find out.
Hearing about this really makesme feel even more strongly
about the partnership that youknow our office is making with
One Safe Place, which providesservices to victims of domestic
(18:45):
violence.
Because you know, all of thesedivorce issues are so
complicated, but you throw indomestic violence into the mix,
especially, you know, being avictim of that.
That in and of itself is sodifficult to walk away from.
But in addition to that, thenhaving to deal with all of these
crazy legal obstacles to justget away from a spouse.
Ilona (19:09):
If you cannot afford a lawyer full scope, meaning to
represent you in an entiredivorce proceeding, you can hire
an attorney or even a paralegaltheir paralegal services to
draft the paperwork for you andget it filed.
So you have it.
You get it going, and thenthere's legal advice.
Okay, what are your rightsabout property division?
What assets exist, what do youknow about what you don't know
(19:31):
about?
And how do you get informationabout what you don't know about?
And that's the discoveryprocess that attorneys can
advise with.
And then there's custodyvisitation and for anybody who
has children, that's the mostimportant issue, and people
normally find the money, even ifthey don't have the money, to
fight for their children.
It's kind of like when I wasdoing criminal law, when, early
(19:54):
in my career 20 years ago,people that you wouldn't think
had money would find mattressmoney to come and defend
themselves in criminal lawproceedings.
I think the same thing happenswhen it comes to children, and
because this is the mostimportant issue and people don't
want to lose their kids, haveyou ever had a case that really
affected you as a mom thatinvolves kids?
(20:16):
Yes, it is the case thatfortunately was resolved about a
year ago, and it was a casethat I thought there has to be
justice served in this one.
Before I die, because I wouldhate to just know that nobody
heard this child and nobodyheard my client.
(20:36):
I think we're going to have heras a guest on our show.
I became her lawyer in 2019after she represented herself in
a family law proceeding.
She went from having 100%custody of her child to losing
it just because she was in frontof a different judicial officer
(20:57):
.
That took saw the casedifferent and she's a very good
woman.
My client was a doctor.
She's smart.
I love her as a person, but incourt she was not the same
person.
She was out of court becauseit's hard to be the same when
you're fighting for something incourt.
She was not the same person.
That she was out of courtbecause it's hard to be the same
when you're fighting forsomething in court.
Mila (21:15):
It's emotional, it's very hard to step outside of yourself
, yeah.
Ilona (21:18):
And she was in her mindset.
She was a mama bear that's whatshe called herself, but she was
too much of a mama bear for thecourt's liking, yeah, and it
backfired on her and she lostcustody, her and she lost
custody.
And it was a battle, afive-year battle, where,
unfortunately, the child was avictim in all this, and when the
(21:39):
ruling was issued last year, itwas the most touching and I
don't know how to describe it,but it was life-changing for
that family.
It was life-changing for me asa lawyer too, like a great
relief, like thank God, thatthis child is finally back with
(22:01):
her mom, because her mom wasright the whole time, in my
opinion, and nobody heard thechild when she was trying to
explain how terrible her lifewas with father, with whom she
was placed, but nobody believedher because my you know my
client wasn't liked.
So nobody listened to the childand all that my client was
doing was repeating what thischild was telling her because
(22:22):
she believed her child Like Iwould believe my child.
Yeah, children sometimes maybeexaggerate things, but when they
say the same thing over andover again and you, you know the
other person because you livewith them or you know their
propensities.
You know you.
You would go and repeat.
I think that's what normalparent will do.
You should go and tell thecourt what it is and that's what
(22:44):
she did.
But that's the case where thischild has not seen her mom for
years.
After adhering after a momrepresented herself and years
into it were fighting forcustody and visitation and it
was a difficult battle she wasfinally reunited with her, and
for good, I believe stuck withme as a mom.
Mila (23:13):
He said you know, it's one thing if you don't see your
child because you don't want toor you don't have time, but when
someone tells you you cannotsee your child, it's a
completely different feeling.
Ilona (23:21):
You feel crippled and I think it's important to bring
angry angry and then you go tocourt and represent yourself
being angry at the orders thatare made.
It's like it doesn't matter ifI'm a lawyer and I know what to
do in family court.
If it was about me, I wouldn'tbe my normal self in court.
If it was about my kids thething when it's about those
(23:43):
sensitive issues, it is trulybest to have an attorney who
will put it eloquently in frontof the judge than the way you
would expose your raw emotionsabout how you really feel about
everything.
Mila (23:54):
I mean, I deal with similar issues in the employment
law context just because peoplewhen they lose their jobs is
the same thing, I mean, and alot, of, a lot of times, these
people are also parents and theyall of a sudden don't know
where their rent is going tocome from or how their kids are
going to eat.
So it does become extremelyemotional and it is our jobs as
lawyers to manage those emotions.
(24:17):
But I do think it's importantto note that.
You know, in the legal context,this is such an important issue
that I feel like doesn't gettalked about enough is that
judges cannot always be neutral.
Right, like they're supposed tobe neutral, they're supposed to
look at a case from a neutralperspective and make a neutral
finding.
But you know, at the end of theday, everyone has their
(24:40):
emotions and their you knowpreconceptions.
So, you know, in a situationlike that, where the judge made
a judgment on the mom based onwhat the judge was seeing and
not who the mom actually wasLike, it's important to.
I think our judicial officersneed massive implicit bias
(25:04):
training.
Ilona (25:05):
They get it.
But in family court, we knowthat you may get a different
ruling from one department toanother depending on who the
judicial officer is, Because,whether you want to or not,
we're not computers.
We're all humans and everybodydoes bring their own experiences
and opinions as to how they aregoing to raise their kids and
what they think is right or, ifthey don't have kids, what they
(25:29):
believe you should do.
Mila (25:31):
So it matters who your judicial officer is, in a way,
and you can't know that unlessyou have an attorney.
Correct, which is why it's soimperative to if you can,
however, you can take out a loan, but have someone who is able
to represent you if you're goingthrough this process, if it's
complicated, right, like if it'svery contested and there are
(25:51):
kids involved and it gets dirtyit's much better to have an
attorney represent you than itis to try to represent yourself.
Ilona (26:00):
Yes, especially when it comes to protecting your
children, because when you'regoing through a divorce and
you're a victim of domesticviolence, it just becomes normal
and then you may allow accessto the other parent to your
children who will continueabusing them, whether it's
verbal or emotional or otherabuse.
And sometimes the best pathcould be to get them help first,
(26:21):
to take parenting classes ortake anger management classes,
take domestic violence classesbefore they have access.
They should earn their right tobe a better parent.
Some may want it, some may not.
I think another difficulty isthat there are a lot of single
parents.
Access.
They should earn their right tobe a better parent.
Some may want it, some may not.
You know, I think anotherdifficulty is that there are a
lot of single parents, whetherit's a single dad or single mom.
(26:42):
It is difficult to be a singleparent when you have a job and
mouths to feed and then youcan't even afford a lawyer.
I've seen that in court.
Once I remember I was walkingthrough the hallway and I saw
this single mom with a newbornnewborn who was crying and she
had two other children and sheyelled at them and that was
before I had children and I justthought, oh my God, she's
treating her children soterribly.
I'm like she should be reportedchild welfare services.
(27:04):
This is child abuse.
She, you know.
She hit the one kid and thenshe was yelling at the other and
I'm like, oh my God, I canimagine what's happening in her
house and how these children aretreated if that's how it is in
the hallway.
So of course, I just likestared at her, giving her dirty
look and she kind of told me,off off, but I don't know what
to do.
Okay, are these kids going tobe better off without their mom
(27:24):
and with some strangers?
Or are they going to be betteroff with the other parent who is
over there in the in front of ajudge and she's probably
waiting for them?
I don't know.
You can't make that decision,because what if she's just
having a bad day?
She just needs to get sleep orshe needs some emotional support
or she needs some help.
But she's a really excellentmom.
She's just having a reallyshitty day.
(27:45):
You don't know that.
It's easy to judge just based onthat, but ultimately you have
to get the full picture andthat's what's important.
When you come in front of ajudge, you have 20 to 40 minutes
on calendar generally to havethe judge form an opinion and
know your story, make an order.
That's going to impact you forthe next possibly year or a
couple of years or even sixmonths until whenever you return
(28:08):
to court 20 to 40 minutes tomake an impression.
All the paperwork that youfiled before that telling your
story and evidence you submit insupport of it will help the
judge make that decision.
So it is extremely importantand how you carry yourself in
court is very important.
If you lose your cool in court,that's going to impact the
(28:29):
order a judge will make or wasgoing to make.
It could change the judge'sopinion about what the order
they were going to make based onthe pleadings.
Mila (28:36):
That's the irony, like real narcissists are able to not
have emotions.
Ilona (28:42):
That is true.
Mila (28:43):
To be controlled, so a lot of times you do have these
situations where one party whois just very emotional and you
know like a really great personpotentially is emotional it
comes off as worse than anarcissist who is able to
maintain their cool.
Ilona (28:58):
That happens so much, it happens so much where, like in
the guests we're going to havecoming on our show, that's what
happened to her.
She was real, she was raw andshe was telling the truth.
The other party could influenceanybody, from police officers
to supervised monitors to allprofessionals involved, because
he was always so nice and sosweet but what was happening
(29:19):
inside the home was not in thebest interest of the child and
she knew best, the child knewbest, but nobody believed him
because he was like that.
And another case I've donerecently I took a deposition of
this guy, history of domesticviolence with multiple women.
But he's very likable and whenyou question him, you talk to
(29:40):
him, you can see how he canmanipulate women, he can
manipulate lawyers, he canmanipulate the court.
If you just have 20 to 40minutes with that person to make
an impression, it's going to bea different impression than
years of story, years ofexperiences, negative experience
someone has lived through andwho is more emotional, who is
(30:00):
more raw, who can really tell itwell, without seeming off
balance relative to that otherperson, who may have a
personality disorder, otherpsychological issues and, as we,
you know, many know those whohave grown up in homes where
they've experienced domesticviolence normally are repeated.
That's not always the case, butthat happens.
Some children learn from it andwant to be better parents and
(30:22):
not do the same thing, notrepeat it.
But I think that percentagepales in comparison to where
it's repeated in the household.
Mila (30:28):
So for someone going through this right now you know
they're learning they will havea 20 to 40 minute window to make
an impression on the judicialofficer.
What is your best advice tothem?
Ilona (30:40):
Well, dress professionally to court.
Keep your cool.
Do not shake your head, makenoise or act crazy in front of a
judge.
Be respectful In your pleadings.
Be as detailed as possible.
Do not exaggerate, do not lie.
Tell the facts as they are.
Be chronological meaning.
Put the dates.
Include supporting evidencewith your declaration.
(31:02):
Don't just say things happened.
Explain when they happened, whowas present, who was there and
do you have proof of importantinformation that would help the
judge believe you more than theother side, help the judge
believe you more than the otherside.
So generally, before custody andvisitation hearing, parties go
to mandatory mediation beforethey can appear in front of a
judge, and this mediation is notsomeone you have to pay, it's
(31:24):
free.
Through court.
Both parties appear and then areport is prepared in the
reporting counties and innon-reporting counties there is
no report.
If you don't reach an agreement, then you just go in front of a
judge.
So the judge needs evidenceyour declaration explaining why
it is in the your children'sbest interest to be with you and
(31:46):
for the other parent to have avisitation schedule.
If it's about support childsupport, spouse support or any
financial issues, explain whatyour understanding of the
financial issues are and whatsupports that understanding?
Because you have to give thecourt evidence.
In financial situations.
It's going to be, you know,supported with tax returns, pay
stubs statements, bankstatements that show deposits.
(32:09):
Submit it together, refer to itin your declaration, just like
number it.
Okayhibit one is my tax return.
Okay, I believe he makes$200,000.
Here's it's based on 2024 taxreturns.
Here's a copy.
Or you know, he hit my child.
I don't have any audio evidenceor video evidence, but I have a
photograph.
(32:29):
Or maybe you don't have aphotograph.
If you have one, attach it ifthere's a bruise.
If you have one, attach it ifthere's a bruise.
But you have a witness,somebody who saw the bruise.
Okay, the following witness sawthis, or I shared it with this
person and you put the name innow you can ask for a witness.
Mila (32:46):
Statements, right?
You can ask for witnessdeclarations as well.
Ilona (32:49):
So as much evidence to support what you're saying.
He is a detailed declarationexplaining why you should get
the relief you're asking for andthen supporting evidence.
So the court believes you.
Mila (33:04):
Over the other side, Two things you said there that
deserve to be emphasized.
I think number one is thatdon't lie or over exaggerate,
because I think a lot of peoplewill go into and this happens in
every legal proceeding, nomatter what field it is.
You know people want to telltheir story and there's a lot of
(33:25):
emotions involved and they maynot have any malicious intent in
over exaggerating.
But you know, if there are grayareas, keep those out, because
all of those things could beused against you later.
If you're caught in a lie in afamily law matter, I can
anticipate that would be really,really bad news over 75 percent
(33:46):
of people in california cannotafford to have a lawyer and
they're self-represented.
Ilona (33:50):
Unfortunately, a lot of lies go unpunished and the best
thing you can do against that isgather written photographic
evidence to support your claimfrom the beginning.
So when the court makes initialorders, you start off on the
right foot, because if you comeunprepared, if you don't have
(34:11):
your documents, you're going toget an order you're not going to
like.
They'll be too low when itcomes to child support it
They'll be too low when it comesto child support.
It's going to be too low whenit comes to spouse support.
That may not be fair or in thebest interest of your children,
because you didn't have time orability to articulate it in
writing or verbally in court.
Some people are good in writing, some people are good speaking,
but if you're coming to courtfor a first time and presenting
(34:33):
new evidence you're not put inwriting for the court to
consider in advance.
The court will not consider it,most likely if the other side
objects.
Mila (34:42):
I think it's interesting Family law and criminal law are
the only two fields of the lawwhere you don't really opt to be
part of it.
Right If you're filing a civillawsuit, I mean, unless you're a
defendant.
But you kind of you know youget to choose Do you want to
file a civil lawsuit or no?
But in criminal you have todefend yourself and in family
(35:03):
law you have to defend yourselfor bring the case against your
spouse and figure out the legalsystem.
As a lay person that's tough.
Ilona (35:11):
The day you have children .
You're pretty much signing upto be in family court if
something is not going to workout, whether you're married or
not, because whether you'remarried or not, if you have
children, child support may beat issue at some point, until
your kids turn 18 or 19, ifthey're in high school and
custody visitation, so you signup for it.
(35:33):
People don't think about it,but that's the reality.
So pick carefully who you screwwith.
Mila (35:41):
I read an article that said celebrity divorces are on
the rise.
I mean, some of the ones I'vebeen seeing are crazy.
So in your opinion, is marriagedead?
Ilona (35:50):
No, I think people want to be romantic and getting
married is part of that romanticstory.
Think people want to beromantic and getting married is
part of that romantic story.
The reason why I believecelebrity divorces are on the
rise is in part becausecelebrities have totally
different lives than we do.
It's not like it's 1950s whereyou stayed married and maybe
husbands did what they wantedand had affairs and wife stayed
home and just tolerated it.
(36:10):
Now people don't tolerate thatsort of stuff.
Everybody's their ownindividuals and a difference
with celebrities is they haveassets to protect.
They may not spend as much timetogether because if they're
traveling, if they have bookingsout of the country, there is
not as much time for developingthe relationship versus when you
(36:33):
just look at someone else andhave hots for them because
they're this perfect person on aTV show or in a movie somewhere
, and then you start living withthem and you smell their dirty
socks and you know what they'relike when they don't take a
shower or whatever else and youreally see their real side.
Maybe that's not what I reallywanted or signed up for, but it
(36:54):
depends how long you date.
Mila (36:57):
That's a huge part of it that, again, people don't think
about.
Marriage is not like cuteInstagram pictures and wedding
dresses and like happy moments.
Marriage is like morning breathand all of the bad habits and
all of the baggage that everyperson has.
You see, you see, you see.
So, unless you can toleratethat and are willing to tolerate
(37:20):
that, marriage is probably notfor you.
Ilona (37:22):
I mean for celebrities.
Is there really a point to getmarried, and you'll have a
prenup?
Most likely that's a good idea.
But even with prenups, peoplecan still try to litigate them
and cause one part of it to beunenforceable or a certain
provision to be void.
So it's risky to get marriedmay sound romantic, but is I
don't know if it's a good idea.
(37:42):
If you have money, a lot ofmoney, somebody can go after to
get married, especially if youare an older celebrity with
younger people, like for, forexample, I am kind of disgusted
by what's his name.
What's the old guy that just hadkids?
Robert De Niro?
Yeah, robert De Niro.
He used to be my favorite actor.
Now I don't like Robert De Niroanymore because he's gross.
(38:07):
Not only does he have childrenthat are older than us, but he
now has a child with someoneyounger than us.
That's like in her 20s.
He's like an 80-, 80 year oldguy sleeping with 20 year olds.
That's nasty.
Now I think there are certainthings that are nasty and guess
what?
You know where the punishmentcomes in for someone like that?
Not that he deserves to bepunished, but technically it's
like a rape, because you're well, they're adults, but you're
(38:28):
like there were kids when he wasgrown up.
It's kind of nasty.
Forget all that.
Let me just rephrase it fromprofessional perspective.
Okay, like someone like RobertDe Niro, who you know he'll
sleep with anyone who will sleepwith him.
But the nasty person whodoesn't care is sleeping with an
(38:49):
eight year old gold digger,obviously, because really who
would want to sleep with himother than his money right now
to have a baby with him?
I mean, it's not the baby'sfault God bless the baby but the
nasty girls who go after oldfarts to have babies with them
to get their money.
I mean the guy is going to endup in court and be paying child
(39:12):
support and a lot of it, andthat already has happened.
I think I've seen articleswhere she was asking for a lot
of money right away, likeshortly after the baby's born.
It's like you're an idiot, youwant to have some sex.
I'm sorry, but you might aswell then just have a I'm pretty
sure they're not having thatmuch sex.
Yeah, it's like she just gotpregnant and had a baby with him
(39:33):
to get money.
Mila (39:36):
But yeah, it's like she just got pregnant and had a baby
with him to get money.
But how stupid men are.
So we have a question from oneof our viewers that we want you
to address.
Our viewer asked how do Iprotect my kids emotionally
while I'm going through divorce?
Ilona (39:48):
I think it's a good idea to get them into therapy so they
understand that the divorce isnot their fault.
Therapy so they understand thatthe divorce is not their fault.
In different counties there aredifferent programs that are for
the children where they havesupport groups with other
children, that whose parents aregetting divorced, and there are
also parenting groups that, ifyou're co-parenting, that you
(40:11):
can attend to better deliver thebreakup of the marriage to your
kids.
But how to help them is do notinvolve the children in the
middle of your court drama.
The courts normally make anorder to not expose the children
to court papers or any courtinformation.
(40:31):
Now many people cannot helpthemselves and they still do
that.
But obviously that's best forthe children not to be worried
about your problems, because itcreates a lot of anxiety inside.
Get them a therapist if you canTake them to their therapy
appointments.
If you can't make time to drivethem, get them a virtual one
and stay out of their therapyappointments.
Mila (40:50):
Don't butt in and be in the background and insurance
will cover a lot of therapyappointments.
Ilona (40:56):
Yes, and ask them do they like their therapist?
Because some therapists aregood, some are not.
Mila (40:59):
you know, it makes a difference I have a friend who,
like just a shout out to hershe's amazing because she's
going through a really nastydivorce and they have three kids
and she's going through it likethe guy's an alcoholic.
It's awful and every time shetalks to me about her divorce
she makes sure her kids are notaround.
She will never even though he'sput her through hell and back
(41:20):
and continues to do so she willnever, ever say one bad word
about him in front of the kids.
Ilona (41:25):
That's the best thing.
Do not bring your children toan attorney's office.
Do not talk on a speakerphoneabout your divorce with anyone
friends, family or your lawyerswhen your children are in the
car.
Do not expose them to anything,even if you want to be the good
guy and know what's going on.
Just don't do it.
It's not good.
They'll figure things out ontheir own.
(41:46):
You know when I say that do notexpose them.
Sometimes the parent needs tofind out what's happening in the
other parent's home, and,although you may not want to
question the child, if you hearthem mentioning something that's
questionable or problematic orraises concerns about their
safety, possibly they're beingneglected, they're not fed, they
don't get clean clothes, maybesomeone's girlfriend is
(42:08):
mistreating them, maybe there'sa mean dog that's a danger to
them, maybe there are drugsin-house anything then of that's
different Then you should findout what's happening, because
you have a duty to protect them.
But again, do not exaggerate.
Really, get to the truth, andif your child says something to
you that you can possiblyconfront the other side about
(42:29):
through text message and emailor in person, depending on who
they are then do it.
If you feel like the child isgoing to be punished because you
asked them and they told youand they're scared that the
other parent will be upset withthem because they've told you
something, then there's adifferent way to go about it.
Mila (42:51):
And I think there are sensitive ways to dig into that,
without you know, keeping inmind children's proclivities to
you know, exaggerate andprobably please you.
There are sensitive ways to askthose questions that are not
leading.
Ilona (43:10):
And also delivering the message, like if a child says
something to you.
I can see myself just likesending a text right away in
anger, like did you do this andthat?
And it sounds it will soundconfrontational.
So I think the best thing is tostop yourself and not send the
text.
But you know, find a, maybewrite it in your notes and and
then read it next day or edit itor ask chat, gpt, make my text
(43:35):
message sound nicer, and it will.
Mila (43:36):
Yeah, I will do that.
Do you know?
Abraham Lincoln had this thingwhere every time he would get
mad at someone, he would write aletter, put it in the mailbox
and his wife would take it outand not let it be sent, and as a
result he had like the bestrelationships with everyone.
Later he found out that she didthat and he realized it's like
a thing when you're mad atsomeone, you write them a letter
(43:56):
, put out all of your rage andthen don't send it.
Ilona (44:03):
No, I didn't know that.
But I guess what you can donowadays with emails and is send
it on delay to someone else andthen cancel it if you change
your mind or edit it oh, that'stoo risky or email it yourself
to yourself.
Mila (44:10):
No, don't I like the chat.
Ilona (44:12):
GPT-ID.
Mila (44:15):
Divorce might break your heart, but it doesn't have to
break your glow.
Ilona (44:19):
So my glam tip create a divorce ritual or just burn all
the stuff that belongs to yourex, Cut the cords, clean your
space, donate the stuff thatcarries the bad energy and
reclaim your home.
Or make a vision board Newgoals, new vibes.
It works.
Divorce is hard, but it doesn'tdefine you.
It can be a new beginning, abetter beginning and an end to
(44:41):
what no longer is good for you.
Mila (44:43):
And we're here to remind you that, even in a time that
feels like a grind, there'salways room for a little glam
Subscribe to keep us part ofyour glam routine.
See you next time on theGlamorous Grind.
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