June 24, 2025 • 37 mins
San Diego District Attorney Summer Stephan joins The Glamorous Grind for a chilling, eye-opening look into the hidden world of human trafficking—and how it’s happening right in our own neighborhoods.
With over 35 years of experience on the front lines of justice, DA Stephan shares how a childhood moment sparked her lifelong mission to protect the vulnerable. From teens recruited on Instagram to trafficking operations that thrive without a single bruise, this episode is packed with truth, tools, and action.
💥 Human trafficking is the second largest criminal industry in the world—generating $810M in San Diego County alone.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
• How traffickers use psychological control instead of physical chains
• Why 80% of victims in San Diego are local teens, not foreign imports
• How social media apps like Snapchat & Instagram are weaponized
• The common red flags parents, teachers, and friends should watch for
• How One Safe Place is helping survivors rebuild their lives
• Why no family—regardless of wealth, education, or awareness—is immune
• What the DOJ is doing, and how California law is catching up
• How you can help: National Human Trafficking Hotline → 888-373-7888
⚠️ If this episode opened your eyes—share it. Raise awareness. Be the advocate.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mila (00:00):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and the law is always in style.
This week we're welcoming aguest.
Both Alona and I are veryexcited to have.
Ilona (00:11):
Our guest has been on the front lines of justice and
protection for decades.
She's leading the chargeagainst human trafficking in San
Diego and the mastermind behindOne Safe Place our new partner
in the subject of last week'sepisode.
Mila (00:25):
She's the DA of San Diego Summer Stephan.
Ilona (00:38):
Well, summer, we're so honored to have you here with us
, considering your busy scheduleand everything you do for the
County of San Diego.
Tell us a little bit about yourcareer and how you became the
District Attorney of San Diego.
Summer (00:49):
Well, thank you, I'm excited to be with you.
I know that you do a lot ofgood in the community, and this
is a part of informing, becauseknowledge is power, I believe.
So anytime we can provideknowledge about public safety
issues, we can also save lives,so I'm very excited to join you
(01:10):
today.
The way it started for me isreally a little bit strange.
I was reading a NationalGeographic magazine.
I was 12 years old and I gotstuck on an image and, as
everybody knows, nationalGeographic are known for their
photographs and you look atthese photographs, you can't get
(01:30):
them out of your mind.
And it was a photograph of somegirls in North Africa that
looked like they were my age.
But there was a big difference.
They had a look of fear andhopelessness.
And here I was, you know, withso much hope and a feeling of
safety because of who my parentswere and how they took care of
(01:51):
me, and I knew at that momentthat my rest of my life would be
about taking away that look offear, of helplessness, and
replacing it with something thatfeels good, that feels like
justice and safety and dignity.
I didn't know exactly wherethat would lead me, but becoming
(02:12):
a prosecutor was the perfectblend for me, where I could be
in the courtroom advocating forvictims, but also part of the
bigger law enforcement andpublic safety.
And it's been a 35-year careerand 28 years on the ground,
trying 100 plus jury trials withvictims of human trafficking
(02:36):
and sexual assault, and schoolthreats and murders, and then
ending up as the electeddistrict attorney in 2018.
Mila (02:45):
Everything you do, you do with such passion.
It's beautiful to see and veryinspirational.
Ilona (02:51):
How?
About a year ago I attended anevent called Sparkles Foundation
and I remember I was sittingthere and watching the videos
and listening to your speech andI was secretly crying Well, I
couldn't really secretly cry,but it was so sad.
I recorded part of your speech.
I recorded secretly crying.
Well, I couldn't reallysecretly cry, but it was so sad.
I recorded part of your speech.
I recorded the video.
I remember I posted it onFacebook because I didn't know
how bad it is.
I didn't know what's going onin the world, how children are
(03:13):
being trafficked, and it was areality check.
I live here and I have no ideathis is happening.
Summer (03:26):
Well, I mean, you hit it on the nose is when you said I
didn't know, because this isexactly what the traffickers
want is they don't want it to bevisible.
It's fascinating.
I've studied, I've lived this,I've looked in the eyes of so
many victims of humantrafficking, and the reason it
is the second largest criminalindustry in the world and in the
United States, in Californiaand in San Diego.
(03:48):
After the trafficking in drugscomes the trafficking in human
beings for sex or labor.
It's just like really hard tothink about it that way, but
it's a reality.
It's supported by data, numbers, our own experience.
And the reason that criminalorganizations and criminals
(04:11):
really gravitate towards humantrafficking is because if you
picture a police officer, youknow interdicting, we put
together operations and theyfind.
You know we do search warrants,they find drugs there.
It's not a hard case.
You know you have the drugsthere, you have the person
caught red-handed.
But when you're dealing withhuman beings it's very hard.
(04:35):
And the reason it's hard is thatthe reason it thrives so much
is that the victims often don'teven know they're victims.
They are brainwashed intothinking that this is a life
that they chose, that they'rethe shameful ones.
After all, they're the onesthat are being prostituted.
(04:55):
We interdicted a 13-year-oldthe other day on the streets
right here in San Diego At 2 am.
We spotted her on camera withcars starting to drive by to
pick her up.
It took three months to gothrough the deprogramming for
her to even to begin to realizethat she wasn't in charge.
(05:19):
She's 13.
She's being sold like she's aslice of pizza for like a
drive-by hamburger.
It's actually shocking and Inever want to stop feeling angry
and shocked about it.
Ilona (05:34):
I never want to accept that this is at all part of
normal society, because it isn'twhen I was a law clerk, I
volunteered in an immigrationlaw firm and I helped this
Hispanic woman who was about 18.
She already had a couple ofchildren and her husband was
(05:56):
prostituting her an alcohol.
She was seeking a visa based onthat.
She had a couple of childrenand she was pregnant again and
he was making her go and be aprostitute while pregnant.
And people go for it and it wasso shocking to me but I didn't
know this was so common.
Summer (06:16):
Your example is a perfect example because what it
really illustrates is that thetraffickers are not strangers.
They can be family members,relatives, or they come into the
circle of trust so that theycan fully control the victim.
We've had cases where thechildren are used to control,
(06:38):
because what happens is theperson who's trafficking the
victim, like in your situationwill start threatening that she
will lose custody, she won'thave her kids.
As soon as he reveals thatshe's been prostituted, no one
is going to let her have herkids.
So it traps thempsychologically.
It's so like no love in herlife.
(07:05):
She was thrown out by her family.
She had nothing.
The only thing she had was adog.
She loved this dog and so hewould use the dog to put the dog
in the pound and say if shedoesn't bring back this much
money, the dog is going to bekilled.
So they'll use whatever thevulnerability is.
(07:28):
That's what's being used Ifit's poverty, if it's emotional
poverty, like no one loves youbut me, but you have to do these
things for me to stay with you.
So they use any ploy to fill inthat vulnerability and to make
the money which is in San Diego.
We measured it at $810 millionannually.
(07:50):
That was being made just by thediscovered cases, the cases we
were able to unravel To me.
Mila (07:57):
what's shocking also is their grasp on psychology.
Summer (08:01):
You are so right.
So what we did is we did thisstudy where researchers paid
inmates that we'd alreadyconvicted of trafficking to talk
to them so they would put somemoney on their books in prison
to find out how they operated,because we needed to learn so we
can unravel these cases.
(08:23):
And what they said is theylooked down on the traffickers
that used open violence.
Because open violence bringsattention, it brings screams, it
brings neighbors calling, itbrings police.
So they operate through thepsychological manipulation until
they can't control the victimanymore.
(08:45):
Then they turn to physicalviolence.
So we're looking for societyRemember you said it was hidden
because society is looking forphysical chains.
We're looking for bruises andstrangulation marks and things
that will tell us something iswrong.
But we're not going to see thatbecause the traffickers are
(09:05):
making too much money to havetheir game unfoiled by these
visible signs.
Ilona (09:11):
How do they operate in our region?
Is it an organized ring?
Do they operate on anindividual level or a hybrid?
Summer (09:18):
It's a hybrid.
So we've interacted withorganized crime that is doing
this, but a lot of gangs areinvolved in it.
But actually they will gooutside their territory for
human trafficking.
They will kill each other overa drug turf and war, but they
will cooperate with each otherwhen it comes to trafficking.
(09:41):
It's such a different mindset.
And then you have theone-on-one trafficking also,
where it's just a relative.
They learn that this is a wayto make money so easy.
They use their niece, they usetheir spouse, like you described
.
So that's how it operates.
(10:02):
It's multi-level and sometimesit is major cartels that are
dealing with drug trafficking,but they also use the human part
.
Ilona (10:12):
Can you paint a picture for our listeners?
What does human traffickinglook like in San Diego County?
Summer (10:17):
The most prevalent is really 80% of the cases is not
an international child.
It is a local child that isrecruited locally because in the
mind of the traffickers, ifthey can use someone local and
keep out federal authorities orother immigration or other
issues, it's safer for them,more profitable.
(10:41):
So they use 80% local averageage 15 years old to 16 years old
.
That's the most prevalent.
It's using social mediaInstagram, using Snapchat to
begin those conversations to sayyou know, you're so pretty, you
should be a model and you knowwhy isn't anybody seeing that
(11:02):
you're so special?
And then the conversation goeson.
It goes offline into privatechat and that's when the trouble
begins.
And pretty soon they're invitedto a party.
They, you know, tell mom anddad that you're going to your
friend's house and the drugs areintroduced, alcohol is
introduced and then begins thesex trafficking.
Ilona (11:26):
Are those kids that come from broken families, from
foster care, who have problemsat school?
Or does it happen to childrencoming from families whose
parents love them and everythingis good and their life is good,
just because they got trappedinto this online?
Summer (11:42):
It's such a good point.
I would say like 20 years agowe used to find a whole
disproportionate level when itcomes to foster care, kids, kids
from broken homes.
Now it's across the board.
There's no family that's immune.
That's what the power of socialmedia has done.
It erodes those protectionsthat families have because the
(12:07):
trafficking is happening whilethe kid is getting a full meal
and are in their bedroom whereyou think they're just safe.
Because it's about brainwashing.
It's about I call itpsychological kidnap and using
those chains of psychologicalattachment which people can form
(12:27):
those relationships.
If you picture even adults andthey're online and they have
their full frontal lobedeveloped still over time.
If they keep getting likes andperson responds positively to
them, they almost start tobelieve they know this person.
This person is a friend, is intheir circle.
(12:48):
Social media even calls them afriend, which is ridiculous
because if you don't actuallyknow them, they're not a friend.
So the manipulation now hasbecome where no family is immune
.
We had a case where thiswonderful family mother is a
nurse, very intelligent, alwayslooking for signs, talking to
(13:09):
her child, but her child justreally became entrapped with.
You know, she wasn't as popularin school.
This person was giving her aton of attention and eventually
she started disappearing and allof a sudden they didn't see her
again disappearing and all of asudden they didn't see her
(13:31):
again.
We were, unfortunately.
The way she was recovered isshe was in the hospital.
Her mom was on duty but somehowdidn't know her daughter was in
the same hospital.
She told the nurse that she wasin a car accident, but it was
clear the injuries were not fromso even being beaten up.
She was still covering up andsaying she was in a car accident
(13:52):
.
Her daughter was finallyreleased and, of course,
released to the trafficker whopretended to be the boyfriend
spread in the hospital andbecause it was so soon after the
event, we were able to come inand help recover this child.
(14:12):
But it took a lot of, again,deep programming for her to
understand this is enslavement,this is a violation of her human
dignity, human rights, becauseshe got so manipulated over time
.
Mila (14:27):
It's time for let's Get Gritty the audience.
Q&a.
Ilona (14:31):
How can parents protect their children from such
influences online, because itseems like everybody could be
impacted?
Summer (14:37):
So some parents try to stay ahead and really know
everything, the controls.
Unfortunately, kids stilloutsmart them and you know, some
parents tell us oh, my kiddoesn't have a phone.
But we find out because we findout that they're actually using
their friend's phone.
Parents should try and theyshould learn how to best put
(14:58):
parental controls and use allthe gadgets that are available.
They should go to NCMEC, theNational Center for Missing and
Exploited Children.
There's a whole education forparents that is very easy to
follow and one that I recommendhighly.
But despite that, I think stillthe best protective factor is
(15:20):
talking, and it means even whenthe door is shut and your kid
doesn't want to talk to you,it's constantly talking, not in
a judgmental way.
The way I recommend parents putit is this could be happening
to one of your friends.
I want you to hear me so thatyou can watch the signs for your
(15:41):
friend, because what do kidsthink?
They think they're smarter.
They think that can't happen tothem, and so if you lower the
barriers and you give them theinformation in a nonjudgmental
way, they will absorb it.
Also, I tell parents alwaystell your kid.
If you do something stupid,still come to me and I will help
(16:02):
you manage it and clear it.
Mila (16:06):
It's important to really acknowledge the importance of
communicating that these thingsdo happen, because I think the
culture now is to protect ourkids from everything bad, which
I agree with.
You know, kids should not beexposed to negativity, and
there's already so much anxietyand depression among adolescents
but at the same time, they needto be aware that these things
(16:29):
happen.
I remember when I was growingup, that's, I was always scared
Because my mom would always tellme all these awful things that
happened to other kids and thatprevented me from doing bad
things a lot of times.
Summer (16:42):
A lot of parents tell me , like I don't want my kids
learning because now there's alaw that which I supported that
brings age appropriate humantrafficking, education in the
schools about internet safety,about all those things.
And some parents think they cansafeguard their kids by not
having them get the information.
(17:02):
Problem is, you can't safeguardthem.
The information is out there,so the best thing to do is to
have them get the trueinformation from you, from a
trusted source, rather than havethe bad guys come in and give
them the information.
Ilona (17:18):
Is there anything from the district attorney's office
that children could watch in thecartoon form, like on YouTube
kids that would explain to themwhat that is and what to look
out for, how to protectthemselves?
Summer (17:32):
You just gave me an idea .
We have all sorts of preventioncampaigns that we do, but not
in cartoon form.
That's actually brilliant.
I'm going to take that back tothe team.
Ilona (17:45):
I love that.
I would love for my daughter towatch something like that
because you know she may notlisten to me or understand, but
if it's explained to her throughcartoon it will register and
she will remember as she growsup.
Mila (17:53):
I see that stranger danger cartoons and things.
Sometimes I'll turn those onfor my kids.
Summer (18:24):
But you know, specifically targeting, you know
sex in a trusted position, andwe don't do enough to explain
what that means, because wealmost lull kids into thinking
if they tell on someone that isknown to them, like a nanny or
relative or a teacher, even or acoach, that something's wrong
(18:47):
with them, because all I'veheard my parents talk about is
stranger danger, and this is nota stranger.
So we need to empower our kidsto understand that stranger is
essentially anybody that doessomething that violates your
space and your autonomy and yourright over your body and your
(19:08):
own actions.
Mila (19:09):
Now we're going to play red flag, green flag, so we're
going to talk about differentbehaviors for people who may
witness these behaviors infriends or family or colleagues,
and you're going to let us knowif it's a red flag, meaning
this person could potentially bea victim of human trafficking
or labor trafficking, or a greenflag, if it's a normal behavior
(19:31):
.
Ilona (19:31):
You're in an airplane and you see an older gentleman with
a child who looks very nervousand has a bruise.
Summer (19:38):
Red flag?
Why?
Well, because when we talkabout red flags and green flags,
we're talking about a totalityof the circumstances.
It's just whether it's enoughfor you to alert someone so that
the attendant can ask morequestions.
We do trainings for airlinesall the time.
(20:00):
They can verify that the childbelongs with this person or
doesn't belong with this person.
If you get this gut instinctthat just anything that doesn't
seem right, this is our humanself-protection mechanism, we
get that sense of fear.
It's called the gift of fear.
That means we are feelingsomething that we can't even put
(20:22):
in words.
So you're probably going to notfind many green flags because,
in combination with other things, it's going to be something
that you should follow up on.
If someone expresses fear ofauthorities and distrust of law
enforcement, expresses fear ofauthorities and distrust of law
enforcement, because this is oneof the number one things for
(20:44):
traffickers is they tell thevictims that police prosecutors
are not their friend and thatthey're going to be the ones in
trouble.
Mila (20:55):
So that is one of the things that we look for A teen
suddenly has expensive newclothes, tech or nails done, but
their family is strugglingfinancially.
Yeah, definitely.
Summer (21:02):
This is what we teach teachers even to notice that
difference, to start noting it.
That's part of the trainingthat we give teachers under the
human trafficking law is wheredid these new items come from?
Doesn't make any sense.
Along with whether they findlike hotel key cards or they see
a child like why does thischild, if their family hasn't
(21:24):
gone on vacation, have a hotelkey card?
You can call the National HumanTrafficking Hotline and they
will call police and that's888-373-7888.
Mila (21:36):
So I have one that I want to bring up because I think it's
important.
I mean, in this day and age,with social media, there are a
lot of influencers and forespecially like young women, it
seems like a really easy way tomake money, like you don't need
an education, you just have tobe pretty and show your life.
(21:57):
So one of these that we havehere is someone mentions work or
modeling opportunities thatsound too good to be true.
Is that a thing?
Do people reach out, you know,promising that someone could be
an influencer, and then put theminto sex trafficking?
Summer (22:14):
That's absolutely a red flag and we've had, sadly, a few
cases where these young peoplehave gone to the location
without anybody with them.
So if you're a parent that alsothinks which we've had parents
think, oh, it's probably real,my child is super beautiful Go
(22:34):
with them.
Tell somebody else before yougo where you're going.
Check it out online to see ifthis agency has any track record
, any reviews.
Is it connected with thataddress?
Use the internet to makeyourself safe by doing reverse
Google searches to see if that'seven a true name, that the
(22:55):
person has given their image,all of those things, because it
definitely is a red flag.
This is not how modelingagencies or influencers do
business.
It's not by contacting someminor online.
So it's really important.
But I think the even biggerpoint that I want to bring out
is lots of times we're lookingfor a male trafficker, but male
(23:20):
traffickers often also use women, women that maybe they
exploited young, but now they'vegrown up and they're using them
to become traffickers.
So they use women to lullvictims into a sense of safety.
So don't just stereotype thatit's going to be a male.
When we talk to our kids, wehave to include females.
Mila (23:43):
I think it's important to note that hackers and, you know,
frauds have become sosophisticated.
I mean, I've seen situationswhere, you know, one person will
claim to be part of an entityand they'll send their email
address and the email address isexact the name and at and the
(24:04):
company name.
These people are extremelysophisticated and it's important
to be hyper vigilant to try andprevent these things.
Ilona (24:11):
For this, week's current event breakdown.
We asked Summer about newlegislation that's pending.
Summer (24:16):
There's a law that I'm fighting for right now.
It's AB 379.
And what it says is not justfor the traffickers, but those
criminal buyers who are buyingkids and human beings.
If they can afford to buy ahuman being, part of their
sentence should always be that$1,000 should go into a fine
(24:37):
bucket that is thenredistributed to victims of
human trafficking.
Isn't that too little?
It's too little, but, believeit or not, they're fighting us
on this small thing.
It's not easy to pass laws inthese days that go after
criminals.
Victims of crime in Sacramentoare not getting the voice that
they deserve.
Ilona (24:58):
Who's lobbying on behalf of criminals to fight $1,000?
I don't understand.
Summer (25:02):
There's a lobby to legalize essentially
prostitution, which islegalizing sex trafficking, a
massive lobby with a ton ofmoney.
That's insane.
Ilona (25:13):
What normal person would ever lobby for this?
Summer (25:16):
Listen in to some of the arguments in Sacramento.
It's really devastating.
I go up there and I, you know,fight and fight.
I issue press releases.
Hopefully this one will pass.
That's why it's balanced.
We're trying to get in the doorwith a thousand dollars, trying
to build the fund to replenishour victims that need trauma
services, shelter, to replenishour victims that need trauma
(25:38):
services, shelter and otherthings.
Of course, we're also seekinghigher punishments for people
who buy 16 and 17-year-olds.
We want it to be a felony.
It isn't a felony.
Ilona (25:49):
That's crazy.
So what can the citizens do tofight the lobbyists who are
obviously sponsored by peoplewho are profiting from this?
Summer (25:58):
Victims don't have a well-financed lobby.
They do not.
What happens is they'revictimized.
They're trying to survive.
They're not, you know,gathering wealth and other
things to support them.
We bring our voice to it, butwe're not the ones that are able
then to support campaigns andother things that make the
(26:20):
legislature sit up and payattention and it's not all of
them, but unfortunately there'senough where it's always an
uphill battle.
Ilona (26:29):
When you prosecute criminals who are trafficking
children or others, what happensto the money they launder as a
result of this crime?
Summer (26:38):
We go after the money but amazingly, the traffickers
are good at hiding the money.
They also use the money to buyfancy things that disappear,
like cars and other justridiculous shoes, and so the
money just it's not like we finda ton of money in their bank
(27:00):
account.
It's spent on items and things.
It's part of that terrible,frivolous lifestyle that we do
work with our federal partners.
There's better federal laws onbeing able to seize assets and
use them, so we try to worktogether on that.
Our state laws are not as goodin terms of seizing all of the
(27:23):
assets and being able to usethem.
Ilona (27:25):
Now let's get into the legal decode.
Mila (27:28):
Let's decode something that often confuses people.
Ilona (27:31):
How do you approach prosecutions when children are
uncomfortable testifying againsttheir traffickers or are still
attached to them emotionally?
Summer (27:40):
This is why I formed a specialized unit, because it is,
it's an art form.
It's both being a greatprosecutors that we have in the
division, but it's also bringingin victim advocates,
trauma-informed people thatunderstand children, forensic
interviewers that really knowhow to ask the right questions
(28:02):
to draw the information withoutcausing the child to shut down.
We have to develop that trustwith them.
One of the hardest cases to getkids to open up about was a
school shooting case that I didin Carlsbad and I had like 50
kids under the age of six thatwere going to be witnesses and I
(28:24):
spent a lot of time, includingjust going to the school in the
afternoon or at lunchtime withpizza, to the school in the
afternoon or at lunchtime withpizza.
And I don't talk to kids aboutthe case without the right
people with me because I don'twant to infect the trial.
I want it to be a pure trial.
But they got so familiar withmy face that they were very
(28:46):
comfortable in the courtroom, tothe point where I asked one of
them what's the number one rulein court?
And of course he's supposed tosay tell the truth, because
we've told him that a milliontimes.
But he said I'm in the driver'sseat.
I was like five years old andI'm in the driver's seat, so
there's a way to do those casesand to do them correctly without
(29:10):
traumatizing the kids again.
But you need a specialized teamto do that.
Mila (29:16):
On that note, I do want to bring up One Safe Place.
Yes, Because you started OneSafe Place.
It's your baby and it'sbeautiful and amazing and we're
so proud to be communitypartners.
And one thing that One SafePlace has that I loved,
especially as a mom of three, isthat when the kids are
(29:37):
interviewed, there are camerasand everything gets done at once
, and Claudia was explainingthat to us so that the kids
don't have to get re-traumatized.
They have a therapist there,there's a camera, there's you
know, people.
She was saying that a lot oftimes there'll be specialists on
the outside kind of watching in, so that it can be just like a
(29:58):
one and done.
Take.
Summer (29:59):
Exactly.
I mean, I love One Safe Place.
It was my dream to build itwhen I became the DA and thank
you for being partners becauseit has the strength of
partnership over 100 partnersbecause the DA's office can't do
everything, but when thecommunity experts from every
angle come in and they supportour victims.
(30:19):
Over 8,000 of them have walkedin in the last three years since
we opened.
It's an incredible thing.
We've seen domestic violencevictims who just never thought
they would be independentfinancially because financial
independence is so important tonot be in a cycle of abuse.
(30:40):
Human trafficking victims whocan dream about, like going to
college, getting a real jobwhere you're not being
dehumanized every day.
It's an incredible thing.
It's sort of like for me.
I call it the rest of the story.
We are really good at in courtas prosecutors, but what happens
(31:00):
to that victim after thesuccessful trial?
They still have to put thepieces of their life together
and this is where the rest ofthe story comes in.
Ilona (31:09):
To do that, it's so amazing that you're able to
create such a powerfulorganization here and I was very
inspired when I was walkingthrough it because as a divorce
attorney, I see a lot ofdomestic violence and coming
from immigrating here fromanother country.
I think it would be a wonderfulthing to replicate what you
(31:30):
have throughout the world.
I would love for something likethat to be in Armenia one day.
If we raise awareness aboutdomestic violence throughout the
world, there's going to be lessof it.
If we raise awareness abouthuman trafficking throughout the
world, there'll be less of it.
Summer (31:43):
I love what you said.
You know, sharing a heritagewith you, our Armenian heritage,
I think we should set a goal toopen a Family Justice Center
one safe place in Armenia.
Ilona (31:57):
I would love that that's been on my to-do list for all
the goals that I have in thefuture.
I said, okay, when I don't haveto work anymore, that's what I
want to do.
I told my cousins when I'mready and at the time we're
going to go do this in Armenia.
At first, we'll put billboardsall around Armenia about
domestic violence and raiseawareness, and you know, people
may hate us and we might needsecurity guards and all but
people there in many countries,I think, are close minded when
(32:17):
it comes to things that may holdthem back that's outside of
their control.
If we can help peopleinternationally get out of it or
at least give them a chance todo better in life, that would be
great.
Summer (32:28):
I'm happy to partner with you.
That's a great goal.
What's nice for San DiegoCounty is I'm already going to
open another one in the SouthBay region.
There's a lot of vulnerablepopulations there as well, but I
love that idea and what yousaid is important.
So we used to put up billboardsto tell victims of human
(32:49):
trafficking and also domesticviolence to get out of it right,
to get out of that cycle.
But where were they going to go?
That's the problem is it's morecomplex than saying get out.
It's how do I not becomehomeless then?
If I've been financiallydependent all these years, how
do I protect my children?
This is where the FamilyJustice Center system, which is
(33:13):
what this is, works, becauseyou're telling them to get out,
but you're also telling them howto do it.
Go here so that you can besupported by everyone who's
going to help you.
When we look at homelessness,40% of women and children on the
street tell you that the reasonthey're homeless is because it
(33:33):
started with domestic violence.
They were fleeing that violence, ended up on somebody's couch,
then that person didn't wantthem anymore and eventually they
were homeless.
So when you break those cycles,you're breaking them for the
next generation as well, likeyou said.
Mila (33:53):
I think it's beautiful, and Claudia and I were talking
just about this and one of theideas that we had, which
actually, next month, we'redoing a training and Claudia has
agreed for it to be open to thepublic, so not only victims of
domestic violence, but anyvictims of domestic abuse who
(34:13):
are trying to get back on theirfeet.
We're going to do a training onwhat their rights are in the
workplace, how to apply foremployment, what to expect in an
interview, how to dress, how tobuild your resume.
I think we're going to havesections on all of those and
we're going to open it up to thepublic.
We're going to live stream onzoom, so even if people can't
come in person, they can watchit on a zoom link.
(34:35):
How do they get back on theirfeet?
How do they find a job?
Summer (34:38):
So I'm very, very I'm so thrilled that you're doing that
.
That's what I mean.
We can't.
You know, I'm really proud tobe the top public safety
official in San Diego and tobring these innovations, but we
always do it in partnership,because we can't do it alone,
(34:58):
and I'm so thankful for thisfirm and both of you for joining
the fight.
Mila (35:05):
Thank you so much for being here.
It's been such a privilege.
The time just flew right.
I have to say and I have never,I have not said this about a
lot of people but you aresingle-handedly changing the
world, and that's I mean, that'sputting it softly You've made
so many changes in so many areasof the law that foundationally
(35:27):
have changed how things are done, and you've helped so many
people.
So thank you.
Ilona (35:33):
And you mean it.
It comes from your heart andit's been wired in you since you
were 12.
Continue it on to now.
Summer (35:40):
I'm really fortunate to have lived that dream that I
wanted to live, but it takes allof us.
I'm so proud to be with youbecause I know you're both women
of substance, and I thinkthat's what we need in the world
is more substance.
You know more people who careand want to do the right thing.
But I'm like I said, I'mblessed with an incredible team
(36:04):
and that's why I'm able toaccomplish what we accomplish.
Ilona (36:07):
I'm grateful this incredible team is in San Diego
and is making things happen.
Summer (36:11):
Thank you.
Ilona (36:12):
So thank you for all you do.
Summer (36:14):
Thank you so much Good to be with you.
Mila (36:16):
Today's Glam Tip Never underestimate the power of
confidence, whether you'rewalking into a courtroom or a
community event.
Advocate like a DA Facts poiseand purpose.
Ilona (36:29):
Be prepared and feel comfortable in your own skin.
You'll be unstoppable.
Mila (36:34):
Summer, thank you for your unwavering commitment to
justice.
You've inspired all of us today.
Ilona (36:41):
And to our audience.
If you learned somethingpowerful, please share this
episode, raise awareness and bean advocate Like your weekly
dose of glam with your grind.
Mila (36:51):
Don't forget to hit subscribe.
Ilona (36:53):
It's law, it's life, it's the Glamorous Grind.
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and the law is always in style.
This week we're welcoming aguest.
Both Alona and I are veryexcited to have.
Ilona (00:11):
Our guest has been on the front lines of justice and
protection for decades.
She's leading the chargeagainst human trafficking in San
Diego and the mastermind behindOne Safe Place our new partner
in the subject of last week'sepisode.
Mila (00:25):
She's the DA of San Diego Summer Stephan.
Ilona (00:38):
Well, summer, we're so honored to have you here with us
, considering your busy scheduleand everything you do for the
County of San Diego.
Tell us a little bit about yourcareer and how you became the
District Attorney of San Diego.
Summer (00:49):
Well, thank you, I'm excited to be with you.
I know that you do a lot ofgood in the community, and this
is a part of informing, becauseknowledge is power, I believe.
So anytime we can provideknowledge about public safety
issues, we can also save lives,so I'm very excited to join you
(01:10):
today.
The way it started for me isreally a little bit strange.
I was reading a NationalGeographic magazine.
I was 12 years old and I gotstuck on an image and, as
everybody knows, nationalGeographic are known for their
photographs and you look atthese photographs, you can't get
(01:30):
them out of your mind.
And it was a photograph of somegirls in North Africa that
looked like they were my age.
But there was a big difference.
They had a look of fear andhopelessness.
And here I was, you know, withso much hope and a feeling of
safety because of who my parentswere and how they took care of
(01:51):
me, and I knew at that momentthat my rest of my life would be
about taking away that look offear, of helplessness, and
replacing it with something thatfeels good, that feels like
justice and safety and dignity.
I didn't know exactly wherethat would lead me, but becoming
(02:12):
a prosecutor was the perfectblend for me, where I could be
in the courtroom advocating forvictims, but also part of the
bigger law enforcement andpublic safety.
And it's been a 35-year careerand 28 years on the ground,
trying 100 plus jury trials withvictims of human trafficking
(02:36):
and sexual assault, and schoolthreats and murders, and then
ending up as the electeddistrict attorney in 2018.
Mila (02:45):
Everything you do, you do with such passion.
It's beautiful to see and veryinspirational.
Ilona (02:51):
How?
About a year ago I attended anevent called Sparkles Foundation
and I remember I was sittingthere and watching the videos
and listening to your speech andI was secretly crying Well, I
couldn't really secretly cry,but it was so sad.
I recorded part of your speech.
I recorded secretly crying.
Well, I couldn't reallysecretly cry, but it was so sad.
I recorded part of your speech.
I recorded the video.
I remember I posted it onFacebook because I didn't know
how bad it is.
I didn't know what's going onin the world, how children are
(03:13):
being trafficked, and it was areality check.
I live here and I have no ideathis is happening.
Summer (03:26):
Well, I mean, you hit it on the nose is when you said I
didn't know, because this isexactly what the traffickers
want is they don't want it to bevisible.
It's fascinating.
I've studied, I've lived this,I've looked in the eyes of so
many victims of humantrafficking, and the reason it
is the second largest criminalindustry in the world and in the
United States, in Californiaand in San Diego.
(03:48):
After the trafficking in drugscomes the trafficking in human
beings for sex or labor.
It's just like really hard tothink about it that way, but
it's a reality.
It's supported by data, numbers, our own experience.
And the reason that criminalorganizations and criminals
(04:11):
really gravitate towards humantrafficking is because if you
picture a police officer, youknow interdicting, we put
together operations and theyfind.
You know we do search warrants,they find drugs there.
It's not a hard case.
You know you have the drugsthere, you have the person
caught red-handed.
But when you're dealing withhuman beings it's very hard.
(04:35):
And the reason it's hard is thatthe reason it thrives so much
is that the victims often don'teven know they're victims.
They are brainwashed intothinking that this is a life
that they chose, that they'rethe shameful ones.
After all, they're the onesthat are being prostituted.
(04:55):
We interdicted a 13-year-oldthe other day on the streets
right here in San Diego At 2 am.
We spotted her on camera withcars starting to drive by to
pick her up.
It took three months to gothrough the deprogramming for
her to even to begin to realizethat she wasn't in charge.
(05:19):
She's 13.
She's being sold like she's aslice of pizza for like a
drive-by hamburger.
It's actually shocking and Inever want to stop feeling angry
and shocked about it.
Ilona (05:34):
I never want to accept that this is at all part of
normal society, because it isn'twhen I was a law clerk, I
volunteered in an immigrationlaw firm and I helped this
Hispanic woman who was about 18.
She already had a couple ofchildren and her husband was
(05:56):
prostituting her an alcohol.
She was seeking a visa based onthat.
She had a couple of childrenand she was pregnant again and
he was making her go and be aprostitute while pregnant.
And people go for it and it wasso shocking to me but I didn't
know this was so common.
Summer (06:16):
Your example is a perfect example because what it
really illustrates is that thetraffickers are not strangers.
They can be family members,relatives, or they come into the
circle of trust so that theycan fully control the victim.
We've had cases where thechildren are used to control,
(06:38):
because what happens is theperson who's trafficking the
victim, like in your situationwill start threatening that she
will lose custody, she won'thave her kids.
As soon as he reveals thatshe's been prostituted, no one
is going to let her have herkids.
So it traps thempsychologically.
It's so like no love in herlife.
(07:05):
She was thrown out by her family.
She had nothing.
The only thing she had was adog.
She loved this dog and so hewould use the dog to put the dog
in the pound and say if shedoesn't bring back this much
money, the dog is going to bekilled.
So they'll use whatever thevulnerability is.
(07:28):
That's what's being used Ifit's poverty, if it's emotional
poverty, like no one loves youbut me, but you have to do these
things for me to stay with you.
So they use any ploy to fill inthat vulnerability and to make
the money which is in San Diego.
We measured it at $810 millionannually.
(07:50):
That was being made just by thediscovered cases, the cases we
were able to unravel To me.
Mila (07:57):
what's shocking also is their grasp on psychology.
Summer (08:01):
You are so right.
So what we did is we did thisstudy where researchers paid
inmates that we'd alreadyconvicted of trafficking to talk
to them so they would put somemoney on their books in prison
to find out how they operated,because we needed to learn so we
can unravel these cases.
(08:23):
And what they said is theylooked down on the traffickers
that used open violence.
Because open violence bringsattention, it brings screams, it
brings neighbors calling, itbrings police.
So they operate through thepsychological manipulation until
they can't control the victimanymore.
(08:45):
Then they turn to physicalviolence.
So we're looking for societyRemember you said it was hidden
because society is looking forphysical chains.
We're looking for bruises andstrangulation marks and things
that will tell us something iswrong.
But we're not going to see thatbecause the traffickers are
(09:05):
making too much money to havetheir game unfoiled by these
visible signs.
Ilona (09:11):
How do they operate in our region?
Is it an organized ring?
Do they operate on anindividual level or a hybrid?
Summer (09:18):
It's a hybrid.
So we've interacted withorganized crime that is doing
this, but a lot of gangs areinvolved in it.
But actually they will gooutside their territory for
human trafficking.
They will kill each other overa drug turf and war, but they
will cooperate with each otherwhen it comes to trafficking.
(09:41):
It's such a different mindset.
And then you have theone-on-one trafficking also,
where it's just a relative.
They learn that this is a wayto make money so easy.
They use their niece, they usetheir spouse, like you described
.
So that's how it operates.
(10:02):
It's multi-level and sometimesit is major cartels that are
dealing with drug trafficking,but they also use the human part
.
Ilona (10:12):
Can you paint a picture for our listeners?
What does human traffickinglook like in San Diego County?
Summer (10:17):
The most prevalent is really 80% of the cases is not
an international child.
It is a local child that isrecruited locally because in the
mind of the traffickers, ifthey can use someone local and
keep out federal authorities orother immigration or other
issues, it's safer for them,more profitable.
(10:41):
So they use 80% local averageage 15 years old to 16 years old
.
That's the most prevalent.
It's using social mediaInstagram, using Snapchat to
begin those conversations to sayyou know, you're so pretty, you
should be a model and you knowwhy isn't anybody seeing that
(11:02):
you're so special?
And then the conversation goeson.
It goes offline into privatechat and that's when the trouble
begins.
And pretty soon they're invitedto a party.
They, you know, tell mom anddad that you're going to your
friend's house and the drugs areintroduced, alcohol is
introduced and then begins thesex trafficking.
Ilona (11:26):
Are those kids that come from broken families, from
foster care, who have problemsat school?
Or does it happen to childrencoming from families whose
parents love them and everythingis good and their life is good,
just because they got trappedinto this online?
Summer (11:42):
It's such a good point.
I would say like 20 years agowe used to find a whole
disproportionate level when itcomes to foster care, kids, kids
from broken homes.
Now it's across the board.
There's no family that's immune.
That's what the power of socialmedia has done.
It erodes those protectionsthat families have because the
(12:07):
trafficking is happening whilethe kid is getting a full meal
and are in their bedroom whereyou think they're just safe.
Because it's about brainwashing.
It's about I call itpsychological kidnap and using
those chains of psychologicalattachment which people can form
(12:27):
those relationships.
If you picture even adults andthey're online and they have
their full frontal lobedeveloped still over time.
If they keep getting likes andperson responds positively to
them, they almost start tobelieve they know this person.
This person is a friend, is intheir circle.
(12:48):
Social media even calls them afriend, which is ridiculous
because if you don't actuallyknow them, they're not a friend.
So the manipulation now hasbecome where no family is immune
.
We had a case where thiswonderful family mother is a
nurse, very intelligent, alwayslooking for signs, talking to
(13:09):
her child, but her child justreally became entrapped with.
You know, she wasn't as popularin school.
This person was giving her aton of attention and eventually
she started disappearing and allof a sudden they didn't see her
again disappearing and all of asudden they didn't see her
(13:31):
again.
We were, unfortunately.
The way she was recovered isshe was in the hospital.
Her mom was on duty but somehowdidn't know her daughter was in
the same hospital.
She told the nurse that she wasin a car accident, but it was
clear the injuries were not fromso even being beaten up.
She was still covering up andsaying she was in a car accident
(13:52):
.
Her daughter was finallyreleased and, of course,
released to the trafficker whopretended to be the boyfriend
spread in the hospital andbecause it was so soon after the
event, we were able to come inand help recover this child.
(14:12):
But it took a lot of, again,deep programming for her to
understand this is enslavement,this is a violation of her human
dignity, human rights, becauseshe got so manipulated over time
.
Mila (14:27):
It's time for let's Get Gritty the audience.
Q&a.
Ilona (14:31):
How can parents protect their children from such
influences online, because itseems like everybody could be
impacted?
Summer (14:37):
So some parents try to stay ahead and really know
everything, the controls.
Unfortunately, kids stilloutsmart them and you know, some
parents tell us oh, my kiddoesn't have a phone.
But we find out because we findout that they're actually using
their friend's phone.
Parents should try and theyshould learn how to best put
(14:58):
parental controls and use allthe gadgets that are available.
They should go to NCMEC, theNational Center for Missing and
Exploited Children.
There's a whole education forparents that is very easy to
follow and one that I recommendhighly.
But despite that, I think stillthe best protective factor is
(15:20):
talking, and it means even whenthe door is shut and your kid
doesn't want to talk to you,it's constantly talking, not in
a judgmental way.
The way I recommend parents putit is this could be happening
to one of your friends.
I want you to hear me so thatyou can watch the signs for your
(15:41):
friend, because what do kidsthink?
They think they're smarter.
They think that can't happen tothem, and so if you lower the
barriers and you give them theinformation in a nonjudgmental
way, they will absorb it.
Also, I tell parents alwaystell your kid.
If you do something stupid,still come to me and I will help
(16:02):
you manage it and clear it.
Mila (16:06):
It's important to really acknowledge the importance of
communicating that these thingsdo happen, because I think the
culture now is to protect ourkids from everything bad, which
I agree with.
You know, kids should not beexposed to negativity, and
there's already so much anxietyand depression among adolescents
but at the same time, they needto be aware that these things
(16:29):
happen.
I remember when I was growingup, that's, I was always scared
Because my mom would always tellme all these awful things that
happened to other kids and thatprevented me from doing bad
things a lot of times.
Summer (16:42):
A lot of parents tell me , like I don't want my kids
learning because now there's alaw that which I supported that
brings age appropriate humantrafficking, education in the
schools about internet safety,about all those things.
And some parents think they cansafeguard their kids by not
having them get the information.
(17:02):
Problem is, you can't safeguardthem.
The information is out there,so the best thing to do is to
have them get the trueinformation from you, from a
trusted source, rather than havethe bad guys come in and give
them the information.
Ilona (17:18):
Is there anything from the district attorney's office
that children could watch in thecartoon form, like on YouTube
kids that would explain to themwhat that is and what to look
out for, how to protectthemselves?
Summer (17:32):
You just gave me an idea .
We have all sorts of preventioncampaigns that we do, but not
in cartoon form.
That's actually brilliant.
I'm going to take that back tothe team.
Ilona (17:45):
I love that.
I would love for my daughter towatch something like that
because you know she may notlisten to me or understand, but
if it's explained to her throughcartoon it will register and
she will remember as she growsup.
Mila (17:53):
I see that stranger danger cartoons and things.
Sometimes I'll turn those onfor my kids.
Summer (18:24):
But you know, specifically targeting, you know
sex in a trusted position, andwe don't do enough to explain
what that means, because wealmost lull kids into thinking
if they tell on someone that isknown to them, like a nanny or
relative or a teacher, even or acoach, that something's wrong
(18:47):
with them, because all I'veheard my parents talk about is
stranger danger, and this is nota stranger.
So we need to empower our kidsto understand that stranger is
essentially anybody that doessomething that violates your
space and your autonomy and yourright over your body and your
(19:08):
own actions.
Mila (19:09):
Now we're going to play red flag, green flag, so we're
going to talk about differentbehaviors for people who may
witness these behaviors infriends or family or colleagues,
and you're going to let us knowif it's a red flag, meaning
this person could potentially bea victim of human trafficking
or labor trafficking, or a greenflag, if it's a normal behavior
(19:31):
.
Ilona (19:31):
You're in an airplane and you see an older gentleman with
a child who looks very nervousand has a bruise.
Summer (19:38):
Red flag?
Why?
Well, because when we talkabout red flags and green flags,
we're talking about a totalityof the circumstances.
It's just whether it's enoughfor you to alert someone so that
the attendant can ask morequestions.
We do trainings for airlinesall the time.
(20:00):
They can verify that the childbelongs with this person or
doesn't belong with this person.
If you get this gut instinctthat just anything that doesn't
seem right, this is our humanself-protection mechanism, we
get that sense of fear.
It's called the gift of fear.
That means we are feelingsomething that we can't even put
(20:22):
in words.
So you're probably going to notfind many green flags because,
in combination with other things, it's going to be something
that you should follow up on.
If someone expresses fear ofauthorities and distrust of law
enforcement, expresses fear ofauthorities and distrust of law
enforcement, because this is oneof the number one things for
(20:44):
traffickers is they tell thevictims that police prosecutors
are not their friend and thatthey're going to be the ones in
trouble.
Mila (20:55):
So that is one of the things that we look for A teen
suddenly has expensive newclothes, tech or nails done, but
their family is strugglingfinancially.
Yeah, definitely.
Summer (21:02):
This is what we teach teachers even to notice that
difference, to start noting it.
That's part of the trainingthat we give teachers under the
human trafficking law is wheredid these new items come from?
Doesn't make any sense.
Along with whether they findlike hotel key cards or they see
a child like why does thischild, if their family hasn't
(21:24):
gone on vacation, have a hotelkey card?
You can call the National HumanTrafficking Hotline and they
will call police and that's888-373-7888.
Mila (21:36):
So I have one that I want to bring up because I think it's
important.
I mean, in this day and age,with social media, there are a
lot of influencers and forespecially like young women, it
seems like a really easy way tomake money, like you don't need
an education, you just have tobe pretty and show your life.
(21:57):
So one of these that we havehere is someone mentions work or
modeling opportunities thatsound too good to be true.
Is that a thing?
Do people reach out, you know,promising that someone could be
an influencer, and then put theminto sex trafficking?
Summer (22:14):
That's absolutely a red flag and we've had, sadly, a few
cases where these young peoplehave gone to the location
without anybody with them.
So if you're a parent that alsothinks which we've had parents
think, oh, it's probably real,my child is super beautiful Go
(22:34):
with them.
Tell somebody else before yougo where you're going.
Check it out online to see ifthis agency has any track record
, any reviews.
Is it connected with thataddress?
Use the internet to makeyourself safe by doing reverse
Google searches to see if that'seven a true name, that the
(22:55):
person has given their image,all of those things, because it
definitely is a red flag.
This is not how modelingagencies or influencers do
business.
It's not by contacting someminor online.
So it's really important.
But I think the even biggerpoint that I want to bring out
is lots of times we're lookingfor a male trafficker, but male
(23:20):
traffickers often also use women, women that maybe they
exploited young, but now they'vegrown up and they're using them
to become traffickers.
So they use women to lullvictims into a sense of safety.
So don't just stereotype thatit's going to be a male.
When we talk to our kids, wehave to include females.
Mila (23:43):
I think it's important to note that hackers and, you know,
frauds have become sosophisticated.
I mean, I've seen situationswhere, you know, one person will
claim to be part of an entityand they'll send their email
address and the email address isexact the name and at and the
(24:04):
company name.
These people are extremelysophisticated and it's important
to be hyper vigilant to try andprevent these things.
Ilona (24:11):
For this, week's current event breakdown.
We asked Summer about newlegislation that's pending.
Summer (24:16):
There's a law that I'm fighting for right now.
It's AB 379.
And what it says is not justfor the traffickers, but those
criminal buyers who are buyingkids and human beings.
If they can afford to buy ahuman being, part of their
sentence should always be that$1,000 should go into a fine
(24:37):
bucket that is thenredistributed to victims of
human trafficking.
Isn't that too little?
It's too little, but, believeit or not, they're fighting us
on this small thing.
It's not easy to pass laws inthese days that go after
criminals.
Victims of crime in Sacramentoare not getting the voice that
they deserve.
Ilona (24:58):
Who's lobbying on behalf of criminals to fight $1,000?
I don't understand.
Summer (25:02):
There's a lobby to legalize essentially
prostitution, which islegalizing sex trafficking, a
massive lobby with a ton ofmoney.
That's insane.
Ilona (25:13):
What normal person would ever lobby for this?
Summer (25:16):
Listen in to some of the arguments in Sacramento.
It's really devastating.
I go up there and I, you know,fight and fight.
I issue press releases.
Hopefully this one will pass.
That's why it's balanced.
We're trying to get in the doorwith a thousand dollars, trying
to build the fund to replenishour victims that need trauma
services, shelter, to replenishour victims that need trauma
(25:38):
services, shelter and otherthings.
Of course, we're also seekinghigher punishments for people
who buy 16 and 17-year-olds.
We want it to be a felony.
It isn't a felony.
Ilona (25:49):
That's crazy.
So what can the citizens do tofight the lobbyists who are
obviously sponsored by peoplewho are profiting from this?
Summer (25:58):
Victims don't have a well-financed lobby.
They do not.
What happens is they'revictimized.
They're trying to survive.
They're not, you know,gathering wealth and other
things to support them.
We bring our voice to it, butwe're not the ones that are able
then to support campaigns andother things that make the
(26:20):
legislature sit up and payattention and it's not all of
them, but unfortunately there'senough where it's always an
uphill battle.
Ilona (26:29):
When you prosecute criminals who are trafficking
children or others, what happensto the money they launder as a
result of this crime?
Summer (26:38):
We go after the money but amazingly, the traffickers
are good at hiding the money.
They also use the money to buyfancy things that disappear,
like cars and other justridiculous shoes, and so the
money just it's not like we finda ton of money in their bank
(27:00):
account.
It's spent on items and things.
It's part of that terrible,frivolous lifestyle that we do
work with our federal partners.
There's better federal laws onbeing able to seize assets and
use them, so we try to worktogether on that.
Our state laws are not as goodin terms of seizing all of the
(27:23):
assets and being able to usethem.
Ilona (27:25):
Now let's get into the legal decode.
Mila (27:28):
Let's decode something that often confuses people.
Ilona (27:31):
How do you approach prosecutions when children are
uncomfortable testifying againsttheir traffickers or are still
attached to them emotionally?
Summer (27:40):
This is why I formed a specialized unit, because it is,
it's an art form.
It's both being a greatprosecutors that we have in the
division, but it's also bringingin victim advocates,
trauma-informed people thatunderstand children, forensic
interviewers that really knowhow to ask the right questions
(28:02):
to draw the information withoutcausing the child to shut down.
We have to develop that trustwith them.
One of the hardest cases to getkids to open up about was a
school shooting case that I didin Carlsbad and I had like 50
kids under the age of six thatwere going to be witnesses and I
(28:24):
spent a lot of time, includingjust going to the school in the
afternoon or at lunchtime withpizza, to the school in the
afternoon or at lunchtime withpizza.
And I don't talk to kids aboutthe case without the right
people with me because I don'twant to infect the trial.
I want it to be a pure trial.
But they got so familiar withmy face that they were very
(28:46):
comfortable in the courtroom, tothe point where I asked one of
them what's the number one rulein court?
And of course he's supposed tosay tell the truth, because
we've told him that a milliontimes.
But he said I'm in the driver'sseat.
I was like five years old andI'm in the driver's seat, so
there's a way to do those casesand to do them correctly without
(29:10):
traumatizing the kids again.
But you need a specialized teamto do that.
Mila (29:16):
On that note, I do want to bring up One Safe Place.
Yes, Because you started OneSafe Place.
It's your baby and it'sbeautiful and amazing and we're
so proud to be communitypartners.
And one thing that One SafePlace has that I loved,
especially as a mom of three, isthat when the kids are
(29:37):
interviewed, there are camerasand everything gets done at once
, and Claudia was explainingthat to us so that the kids
don't have to get re-traumatized.
They have a therapist there,there's a camera, there's you
know, people.
She was saying that a lot oftimes there'll be specialists on
the outside kind of watching in, so that it can be just like a
(29:58):
one and done.
Take.
Summer (29:59):
Exactly.
I mean, I love One Safe Place.
It was my dream to build itwhen I became the DA and thank
you for being partners becauseit has the strength of
partnership over 100 partnersbecause the DA's office can't do
everything, but when thecommunity experts from every
angle come in and they supportour victims.
(30:19):
Over 8,000 of them have walkedin in the last three years since
we opened.
It's an incredible thing.
We've seen domestic violencevictims who just never thought
they would be independentfinancially because financial
independence is so important tonot be in a cycle of abuse.
(30:40):
Human trafficking victims whocan dream about, like going to
college, getting a real jobwhere you're not being
dehumanized every day.
It's an incredible thing.
It's sort of like for me.
I call it the rest of the story.
We are really good at in courtas prosecutors, but what happens
(31:00):
to that victim after thesuccessful trial?
They still have to put thepieces of their life together
and this is where the rest ofthe story comes in.
Ilona (31:09):
To do that, it's so amazing that you're able to
create such a powerfulorganization here and I was very
inspired when I was walkingthrough it because as a divorce
attorney, I see a lot ofdomestic violence and coming
from immigrating here fromanother country.
I think it would be a wonderfulthing to replicate what you
(31:30):
have throughout the world.
I would love for something likethat to be in Armenia one day.
If we raise awareness aboutdomestic violence throughout the
world, there's going to be lessof it.
If we raise awareness abouthuman trafficking throughout the
world, there'll be less of it.
Summer (31:43):
I love what you said.
You know, sharing a heritagewith you, our Armenian heritage,
I think we should set a goal toopen a Family Justice Center
one safe place in Armenia.
Ilona (31:57):
I would love that that's been on my to-do list for all
the goals that I have in thefuture.
I said, okay, when I don't haveto work anymore, that's what I
want to do.
I told my cousins when I'mready and at the time we're
going to go do this in Armenia.
At first, we'll put billboardsall around Armenia about
domestic violence and raiseawareness, and you know, people
may hate us and we might needsecurity guards and all but
people there in many countries,I think, are close minded when
(32:17):
it comes to things that may holdthem back that's outside of
their control.
If we can help peopleinternationally get out of it or
at least give them a chance todo better in life, that would be
great.
Summer (32:28):
I'm happy to partner with you.
That's a great goal.
What's nice for San DiegoCounty is I'm already going to
open another one in the SouthBay region.
There's a lot of vulnerablepopulations there as well, but I
love that idea and what yousaid is important.
So we used to put up billboardsto tell victims of human
(32:49):
trafficking and also domesticviolence to get out of it right,
to get out of that cycle.
But where were they going to go?
That's the problem is it's morecomplex than saying get out.
It's how do I not becomehomeless then?
If I've been financiallydependent all these years, how
do I protect my children?
This is where the FamilyJustice Center system, which is
(33:13):
what this is, works, becauseyou're telling them to get out,
but you're also telling them howto do it.
Go here so that you can besupported by everyone who's
going to help you.
When we look at homelessness,40% of women and children on the
street tell you that the reasonthey're homeless is because it
(33:33):
started with domestic violence.
They were fleeing that violence, ended up on somebody's couch,
then that person didn't wantthem anymore and eventually they
were homeless.
So when you break those cycles,you're breaking them for the
next generation as well, likeyou said.
Mila (33:53):
I think it's beautiful, and Claudia and I were talking
just about this and one of theideas that we had, which
actually, next month, we'redoing a training and Claudia has
agreed for it to be open to thepublic, so not only victims of
domestic violence, but anyvictims of domestic abuse who
(34:13):
are trying to get back on theirfeet.
We're going to do a training onwhat their rights are in the
workplace, how to apply foremployment, what to expect in an
interview, how to dress, how tobuild your resume.
I think we're going to havesections on all of those and
we're going to open it up to thepublic.
We're going to live stream onzoom, so even if people can't
come in person, they can watchit on a zoom link.
(34:35):
How do they get back on theirfeet?
How do they find a job?
Summer (34:38):
So I'm very, very I'm so thrilled that you're doing that
.
That's what I mean.
We can't.
You know, I'm really proud tobe the top public safety
official in San Diego and tobring these innovations, but we
always do it in partnership,because we can't do it alone,
(34:58):
and I'm so thankful for thisfirm and both of you for joining
the fight.
Mila (35:05):
Thank you so much for being here.
It's been such a privilege.
The time just flew right.
I have to say and I have never,I have not said this about a
lot of people but you aresingle-handedly changing the
world, and that's I mean, that'sputting it softly You've made
so many changes in so many areasof the law that foundationally
(35:27):
have changed how things are done, and you've helped so many
people.
So thank you.
Ilona (35:33):
And you mean it.
It comes from your heart andit's been wired in you since you
were 12.
Continue it on to now.
Summer (35:40):
I'm really fortunate to have lived that dream that I
wanted to live, but it takes allof us.
I'm so proud to be with youbecause I know you're both women
of substance, and I thinkthat's what we need in the world
is more substance.
You know more people who careand want to do the right thing.
But I'm like I said, I'mblessed with an incredible team
(36:04):
and that's why I'm able toaccomplish what we accomplish.
Ilona (36:07):
I'm grateful this incredible team is in San Diego
and is making things happen.
Summer (36:11):
Thank you.
Ilona (36:12):
So thank you for all you do.
Summer (36:14):
Thank you so much Good to be with you.
Mila (36:16):
Today's Glam Tip Never underestimate the power of
confidence, whether you'rewalking into a courtroom or a
community event.
Advocate like a DA Facts poiseand purpose.
Ilona (36:29):
Be prepared and feel comfortable in your own skin.
You'll be unstoppable.
Mila (36:34):
Summer, thank you for your unwavering commitment to
justice.
You've inspired all of us today.
Ilona (36:41):
And to our audience.
If you learned somethingpowerful, please share this
episode, raise awareness and bean advocate Like your weekly
dose of glam with your grind.
Mila (36:51):
Don't forget to hit subscribe.
Ilona (36:53):
It's law, it's life, it's the Glamorous Grind.
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