July 9, 2025 • 35 mins
Podcast host Lindsay Abernathy joins Ilona and Mila to discuss the hidden epidemic of domestic abuse, emotional manipulation, and the failures of the family court system.
Lindsay — host of Bitch Is A Bad Word — shares her personal survival story and explains why silence is dangerous, how trauma bonds form, and what “pink flags” really mean. From love bombing and gaslighting to corruption in courtrooms, Lindsay speaks out for every woman who’s ever felt stuck, unheard, or afraid to leave.
🔥 Topics covered:
- Love bombing, trauma bonds & emotional abuse
- Recording arguments: survival or red flag?
- Flying monkeys, pink flags & the “narc vault”
- Family court manipulation & legal system weaponization
- The cost of silence & importance of speaking up
- Support networks: BFF Alliance & One Safe Place
This episode isn’t just a conversation — it’s a call to action. Whether you’re a survivor, an ally, or a legal professional, this one will stay with you.
🔗 If you're questioning your relationship, you’re not alone. Help is out there.
📌 Follow @glamorousgrindpodcast for more episodes.
🎙️ Guest: Lindsay Abernathy, host of Bitch Is A Bad Word
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New episodes every Tuesday. Make sure you are subscribed on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
🎙️ Hosts: Ilona Antonyan & Mila Arutunian
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He had done worst things physically to me, but I
had just made the decision thatI'm going to believe him.
Welcome to.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The Glamorous Grind.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Our past few episodes have touched on centers that
are taking strides to helpsurvivors of domestic violence,
but today we want to focus on anindividual who is doing the
same.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I am a podcaster.
I have a podcast called Bitchis a Bad Word and we shine light
on the dark epidemic ofdomestic abuse.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Our guest has built a platform for survivors of abuse
to tell their own stories.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
When you're being love bombed is actually most
likely a trauma bond.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
She's taken her trauma and turned it into a
toolkit.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I spent a very long time with the family court
system being my abuser'splayground.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
She's the host.
Of Bitch is a Bad Word.
Lindsay Abernathy.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us today.
This is such a privilege.
So now we are going to play RedFlag, green flag Notice the
flags are very glamorous andsparkly.
We're going to talk aboutthings that could happen in
relationships and you let usknow if it's a red flag or a
green flag, and why.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Green flag or red flag?
Your boyfriend asks you to quityour job and travel with him
around the world.
He's going to pay foreverything before you have
children.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Sounds personal.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Red flag.
What Sounds great, set me up.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
So yeah, I'd say it's a red flag If it's happening
soon and super fast.
I would imagine that thisperson is love bombing you and
they're not giving you anopportunity to take a beat and
see who they truly are and theywant everything to be fast and
furious and glamorous and youneed to be able to say this is
(01:52):
kind of nuts, Like why this isway too fast.
I guess it could go green if,when you say I think this is
going too fast, I need to take aminute, that they say they
respect the boundary, but Ithink anything that's just like
wham bam, sweep you off yourfeet.
I think it's a red flag.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Okay, red flag or green flag Partner notices your
boundaries without you eventelling them what they are.
This is a green flag.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
A cute green flag.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It happens, ladies, it happens.
I think nowadays, with you knowthe widespread knowledge and
education, I think there are alot more men and women who are
more cognizant of the otherparty's emotions and love
languages and really try to makehappy relationships I think
that's how my boyfriend lockedme down and love languages and
really try to make happyrelationships.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I think that's how my boyfriend locked me down.
He gave me my space when I waslike, hey, I kind of need you to
leave or let me do my thing,and that won me over.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
You think like you need that big, barbaric guy who
just like blasts through yourboundaries.
And the guy who's like, beingsweet and cool is like you need
the sweet and cool is like uh-uh, you need the sweet and cool
guy.
It doesn't mean he can'tprotect you.
I mean he's probably he's notgonna hurt you and he's probably
going to protect you.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
But I say this too this guy is never gonna give you
those butterflies in yourstomach and you're gonna think
he's boring as fuck but here'sthe thing at this point in my
dating career my girlfriendswere like just you don't have to
look at whether he has a goodbody or if he has hair, just you
know, find a good guy stop me.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
This guy is gonna send out all the butterflies and
all the alarms.
But that is your body,literally, because your gut
knows before.
Your head is saying the vibesare not vibing, run like hell.
He is dangerous.
But you're like, oh, it's my,I'm gonna change him emotionally
, regulate myself around thisperson, he must be amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Red flag or green flag, you feel you have to
record your arguments to protectyour memory of a conflict,
because later the conflict getstransformed into something you
don't recall.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Red flag.
They are gaslighting the fuckout of you.
They're gaslighting you so muchthat you start gaslighting
yourself.
You're like this didn't happen.
So when you are having torecord the conversation or
you're having to like, rememberthis, remember this.
Remember this has happened.
It's absolutely a pathologicalperson emotionally abusing you
(04:32):
and we have to raise the bar.
And I have said that I set thebar so low with my ex that I
tripped over it.
I fell into the wall, hit myeye, caused a bruise that he
actually had caused and I blamedit on the wall.
We are setting the bar so lowwith these pathological people
that we are tripping over thebar that we're setting and we
(04:56):
are giving them this opportunityto continue to abuse us
emotionally.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Many clients I have now.
When I meet with them, I don'tknow how to get through to them
say, hey, leave, don't protecthim, protect yourself, protect
the kid.
But they are not hearing itbecause they're not there yet.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I'm finding there's a lack of support and
understanding for women orvictims that need a true team of
trauma-informed lawyers.
You need a trauma-informedtherapist.
Perhaps you need a divorcecoach.
You need to understand sort ofwhat your, because your barrier
to leave is already verydifficult.
How are you going to strategizethe rest of your life?
(05:37):
How are you going to strategizethe next six months?
And I didn't have any of thosethings lined up and I ended up.
You know, I left with $40 in mywallet and I never saw more.
I mean, my lawyers made moremoney than I did.
Barrier to success is huge andwhat I find with women reaching
(06:10):
out through our nonprofit andthrough Bitch is a Bad Word is
there's a whole underbelly thatI didn't know.
As a woman of privilege, I don'tthink a lot of attorneys
understand that they don't evenmake it to the family court or
they're in a family court and ajurisdiction like Arkansas or
like somewhere completely likerun in a different Wild West
(06:31):
sort of fashion and women arelosing their kids to liars and
perpetrators.
There's corruption happening,like in certain areas too, where
I've spoken to a woman whohasn't seen her child and over
400 days, and because they'rethe, there's just somebody's in
(06:53):
somebody's pocket.
And this is happening in theSouth and I will tell you on a
personal experience throughfamily court.
A lot of women are scared to goafter their ex for the child
support.
They're scared to like I likenthem a snake in the basket and
like, when they're quiet and thesnake is like there's nothing
happening, you're like life isreally peaceful right now.
(07:13):
I don't really want to rock theboat.
I went after my ex.
When I finally kind of got myhead out of I was of like
survival mode and realized thisis real life.
I am entitled to this.
I am.
I have earned.
I said I created great valuefor our family and he said you
(07:33):
took the value with you when youleft and you broke up our
family and I believed that for areally long time.
Then I'm like hold on.
There's a comma.
After broke up our family commabecause you were abusive, I had
to leave.
It was no longer safe,emotionally or otherwise, for
anybody in this environment tostay.
It doesn't mean that I shouldnot be taken care of or take
what is earned.
(07:54):
I put a case against him and hesent me a text message and he
said drop this case immediatelyor you and your fellow cunts
will see the wrath of me.
Because he calls the women onmy show the C word.
That's his favorite.
That's why I dropped myepisodes, by the way, on
Tuesdays, so I can say see younext Tuesday.
Every week he made good on thethreat and he filed a temporary
(08:17):
restraining order against methat protected his wife and his
two children.
And when you read how he gotthis, what he said is he said
that I promote violence againstmen on my podcast.
So he put the transcript oflike the first opening where we
were talking about LorenaBobbitt and Betty Broderick and
(08:39):
we said you know, this wasreactive abuse.
And I actually had an expert,bill Eddy, on talking about
reactive abuse on the podcast weneed a drink for that yeah.
So he said and we said you know,if there was me too, or twitter
back when lorena bobbittchopped off his penis, we
(09:02):
probably would have discoveredthere was domestic violence
behind the act.
I don't think she just went outof nowhere and just went psycho
and did it.
Then I talk about BettyBroderick, which is also a hot
topic in our area.
But she didn't do these things.
These women did the wrong thing, they committed crimes and they
have to pay for those crimes.
So, yes, I don't support thatat all.
(09:24):
The topic of the episode waswhat happens in reactive abuse,
like how do we stop, how do weget women to leave, before
something like lives are alteredforever, when they're being
abused time and time and timeagain, where they just lose it?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
so in this restraining order he says that I
promote violence against men soyou mean he said he took
exactly what you said, he tookit out of context and used it
against you.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Shocker, yeah shock and he didn't leave the last.
He actually left out the wrong,the last part where we said
this was wrong.
Like you know, we don't condonethis.
He makes this a threat.
You know, drop the case againstme or you'll see.
Then I happen to be in thevista courthouse getting my diso
file for the other case, myfamily law file um, because it
(10:12):
was protected and I see him andmy kids there and I say like
what the hell are they?
Why are they here?
And so my young kid's.
I say what the hell are theydoing?
Why are they here?
My young kid's like mama, mama.
I go what are you guys doing?
He looks at me and I just knewlike something.
They walk out.
I go to the clerk.
I said is there anything elsethat's been filed as of today?
She said yes, a restrainingorder against you.
Seeing my children, I'm goingto have a hard time with this.
(10:35):
The last time I saw my kids wasin the family.
It was in the courthouse inVista, when they said Mama.
And I said you guys, you need,you need to leave, you don't
need to be here.
What are you doing?
And I look at him like what areyou doing?
Is that in 2022?
This just happened in March andbecause he had planned it so
perfectly for it was like hislong weekend.
Then.
Then it was spring break andthen the courtroom was dark for
(10:58):
a week.
I didn't see my kids for 24days.
I could not go to their school,I could not access, I was
completely forbidden and I waslike from seeing my kids.
So I filed ex parte.
I went to the judge and I saidyour Honor, he's like I think
that this is a ploy for him tobe able to take the kids.
Here's the text message wherehe says says if I don't drop
(11:24):
this case against, and he's, thejudge is like well, I don't
really see how that's a threat.
I don't really see.
And in that moment was the lastday of school before spring
break.
My ex said sorry, I couldn'tcome in person because I was
just dropping my kids off fromschool.
At school, I leave the courtroomand I get an email from the
school saying that they hadn'tbeen taken to school.
You know, like an absenteething, I go right back and I'm
banging on the judges like Iknow that that's not OK, but I'm
(11:45):
like I don't care, I'm going tobe a hyper woman here and I'm
like banging on the chamberslike yes, and I said we were
just in court.
He just lied to you and saidthat he was dropping the kids
off at school.
Look he off at school, look hewasn't.
And they go.
Okay, like we'll see you monday, I will.
We'll revisit this case onmonday.
The judge asked him he'sgaslighting the judge, I'm
(12:05):
listening.
He's like gaslighting the judge.
This judge sort of lets it go.
I'm like this if the only thingyou have in court is like your
is honor, is your truth, likeyou have is telling truth.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
See, unfortunately, people take an oath under
penalty of perjury and peoplelie and sometimes the court
doesn't enforce it, although ifthey think it was punished, more
less people would be lying andcausing the others to have to
prove and disprove what the realtruth is.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I didn't see the kids for 24 days.
I had to prove my innocence.
I had seven witnesses.
The day that he chose that Ihad this home invasion was like
the greatest day ever, becauseit was a planned birthday
celebration for me, so it wasthe most documented day that I'd
had.
So, but Uber receipts I wrotegraphs like here's where I
started, here's where we ended.
Uber receipts, restaurantreservations photographs, four
(12:56):
witnesses in person, my producerof my podcast to show that we
don't promote violence againstmen in court for an eight hour
day to prove that I didn't do itDuring that 24 days.
He also claimed that I broke therestraining order.
So then there was a contemptcharge against me and I'm like
and the contempt?
The contempt charge was she sawus at the beach and then we saw
(13:19):
her running away.
And then I'm like okay, well,hold on on its face like I was.
If I really was there at thebeach, at a public place and you
saw me running away, I was notin contempt, I was honoring the
restraining order.
I left, but again, I had ringcamera footage of where I was on
, nowhere near the beach, heclaimed.
But he could just lie, did heever get punished?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
No, this is what I'm talking about when I say that I
feel like the court system,especially on the family law
side, protects wrongdoingssometimes.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Here's how it works.
See, the court system is backedup.
There are so many people thathave problems that the judges
need to deal with.
The judges have packedcalendars that have problems
that the judges need to dealwith, and the judges have packed
calendars, and the problem isthat it takes about 60 to 90
days for you to have a 20 to 40minute hearing before the court
For domestic violence matters.
Those take priority, so thejudge puts them in advance of
(14:10):
everything else.
But from the time someone filesa restraining order over the
counter, the next hearing may bein 21 to 25 days potentially,
and unfortunately you may notsee your kid.
You can go ex parte and try toget visitation rights If there
is a good cause and if you haveproof, so that you don't have to
(14:31):
wait those 21 days, but youhave to be good at presenting
evidence and show that.
Oh, you shouldn't be waitinguntil the actual day in court
three weeks later.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
And imagine, like his only witness right, his only
witness is his wife.
I'm like, how do I, how is Iwas?
I learned so much in thisexperience?
And I even said to the judge Iwas like how do I get my time
back with my young kids?
And he's like, well, hopefullyyou guys can work that out.
Like clearly, this is not aworking out kind of relationship
.
(15:04):
I just are we all on the samepage, that we don't work well
together.
And you know, I have to alwayssay too, like when people get
labeled high conflict we werelabeled by our attorneys as high
conflict.
I realize now later it onlytakes one person to create the
conflict, it doesn't mean thatboth people are.
And in that moment I thoughtI've just lost my kids.
For all these days I was awreck, I couldn't function.
(15:25):
And then I speak to women whoare going Lindsay, I haven't
seen my kids in 300 days.
I haven't seen my kids in twodays.
I haven't seen my kids in twoyears I haven't seen.
There's a whole, like I said,underbelly that's happening.
That is so scary that for megoing after my husband for this
child support seems dangerous.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Hundreds of thousands of people that are in the same
situation, that either need newrestraining orders or have
hearings pending, and all thosepeople would love to have an
attorney.
An attorney was going to fightfor them, present their case
because they're not in acondition to be able to gather
their evidence together and makea case for themselves because
they're emotional.
(16:02):
Even I, as an attorney,probably be better off having an
attorney in court thanlitigating for yourself, because
when it concerns you, yourchildren, your life, you come at
it from a completely differentperspective than you may be in
your profession or normal life.
So hundreds of thousands,millions of people who need
legal assistance.
They cannot afford it.
(16:23):
In fact, over 75% of alllitigants who have attorneys at
some point becomeself-represented at some point
in litigation because peoplecannot afford lawyers.
And then there are volunteerorganizations who have limited
resources and who may not havethe most experienced attorneys.
They have good hearts but theymay not be so strong in court.
(16:44):
They haven't done as manyrestraining orders.
They may not be able to giveyou such good strategic advice
as those who litigate all thetime be able to give you such
good strategic advice as thosewho litigate, you know, all the
time.
So there's limitation ofavailable attorneys, affordable
attorneys, and then you'rerestricted by the backed up
court system and people who gothrough domestic violence issues
(17:05):
.
They need a lot of attentionand they may want to talk to
their lawyer all the time aboutthings that maybe, from
financial perspective, it's bestto talk to a therapist about.
And other free sources areavailable and, you know, one of
the places we partnered up withis one safe place which I was so
glad to hear.
They can help anyone, no matterif you're rich or poor.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
There are organizations that can help at
no cost, and once they've one ofthem Only to a certain point.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
To a certain point, some people can't afford an
attorney.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
There's just no way they don't qualify for a loan.
There's absolutely no way theycan afford counsel.
And what do they do from there?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
We actually just partnered with them as well.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I was thinking about that, that you guys would be
great partners we met with her.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
We just have to, like , sign the MOU, but the same
thing just or for a place,mostly so that we have women who
come to us, because you knowwe're nonprofits, we have
limited funding, but I have aplace.
Now I can send someone a BFFright away.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
What do you do to help them?
Let's say somebody.
How did someone reach you whois a victim of domestic violence
?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
and how can you help them.
For BFF Alliance, we are likean underground resource, so our
marketing is like very word ofmouth, qr code style, and we're
a boutique organization offeringservices to women who are like
I don't want to talk about TV,you know with their like bloody
(18:35):
face and you're like, okay, well, you are abused.
No, I'm not.
Okay, well, let's get you thehelp you need.
So what, we are all word ofmouth and what I offer is just
like a landline.
I'm going to be your, I'm goingto speak to you, I'm going to
help you understand, like, getyou through the trauma.
I'm going to be your bestfriend for a little bit and
we're going to get you down to apoint where your regulation of
emotions are very high.
(18:55):
And let's help you understand.
I'm, my job is to help thiswoman, not go back, and I'm
going to share with you thereasons why you shouldn't go
back and let me help you just asyour friend.
And then we're going to seewhat do you need you need a
lawyer, or what are yourresources?
What are your opportunities?
Do you have access to funds?
Do you not have access to funds?
So only now that we have thispartnership with One Safe Place,
(19:18):
can I and also feel really good.
By the way, I love them becauseit is a beautiful location, it
doesn't feel clinical, or youknow, I love the like children's
room and the
Speaker 3 (19:32):
children therapy room .
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's amazing like a little um medical suite and you
know, in-house too, which I love, it feels approachable right
and it feels accessible.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yes, it does, and so for us at.
You know, when we are speakingto someone, a lot of times again
, women are.
They're not ready toacknowledge that.
This is where they are.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
It takes time, yes, a lot of therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Well and we say this too, like if you're an affluent
woman and I'm not saying thatlike we will help anybody but
where I realized that there waslike a missing piece is you have
done such a good job as anabused woman to lie to everybody
in your life about what ishappening.
So then you also are walkingaround with this giant scarlet
letter that you feel like I'vejust told everybody my life is
(20:16):
amazing.
I'm sitting at Rancho Valenciawith all my friends.
I'm not sitting there like howfucked up did you get by your
husband?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But the stronger you are, the less you want to
victimize yourself, right.
Like the stronger woman don'twant to go around and talk about
how horrible their lives.
It's about shame.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's yeah, it's about shame, but you're not talking
about it.
You're like so then, when youcome out, people are like, well,
this is weird.
Like all of a sudden, tina'stalking about abuse.
Well, this seems, oh, she'sprobably just doing it so she
can get more money.
Like there's so much likestigma on this, that like why
we're not making it safe forwomen to come out look at
Cassidy like look, what'shappening right now?
(20:54):
This no one's making it saferfor women to come out and speak
up.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You know we're not saying well, I think what I mean
?
Safer?
I mean you either are the typeof a person who is gonna tell
your story and share what'shappening with you, or your
private person and you keep itto yourself, right, right, you
may tell your friends, you maytell your mom.
I think most people tellsomebody.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But I think that can change.
I think you can be private.
I mean, I had a situation in myfamily where a woman was abused
for many years and then, by thetime she felt that she was
comfortable to come out and, youknow, leave her abusive spouse.
No one believed her.
Everyone's like, oh, likeyou're the problem.
Yeah, you need to not talk back.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Well, and then he'll remember the whole, the second
you decide to share that personbecause they are so good,
they're already and theyprobably have for years been
doing the silent smear campaignagainst you and planting.
They've got the you know theflying monkey that goes back and
reports.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Give us a definition of your new term flying monkey.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I have a bitchinary.
Oh hey, you can go to my showand look, but we have a
bitchinary, which is a glossaryof all these terms.
I try to make?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Is that book?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
for sale on Amazon.
It will be Everything I eversaw about abuse when I was
Googling.
I remember, like sitting in thebathroom, like on my phone, and
is this an abusive relationship?
Ok, yes it is.
I don't really need to Google.
If you're Googling, are you anabusive relationship?
The answer is yes.
I can just save you the searchhistory that they'll use against
(22:26):
you later anyway.
But and you're monitored.
I have 100 percent.
They're monitoring you.
But it's like I'm trying tobreak it down to a level of like
.
I'm not making light of itbecause it's a light subject.
I'm trying to use like humor ismy trauma response.
I'm trying to make itapproachable and I'm trying to
(22:47):
make it be like okay, this iswhat this looks like.
So a flying monkey is usually aperpetrator, or like a
pathological person has that onenegative advocate, the enabler
that enables the bad behavior.
So let's say it's themother-in-law and he's gone to
her like, oh God, she's so crazy, she was losing her mind last
night Meanwhile.
So the mother's coming over,you know, immediately being like
(23:07):
what are you doing to my son?
Like, why are you like you?
And then you're sitting thereand you're like but last night
he was beating me up and he wascalling me the C word.
And then that little, thatperson, the negative advocate,
is the flying monkey, just likein Wizard of Oz, who flies in
reports back to the Wicked WitchAll the shit you said.
So that person can like packageit all up and re throw it in
(23:32):
your face and then they look athow dare you talk about our
personal life to my family?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Can you tell me your top favorite five words from?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Bitchinary Okay, flying monkey a million percent
Masturbators.
The narc vaults that's wherethey keep all of your secrets
and your vulnerabilities.
Hoovering that's like we couldhave a second series where we
talk about what hoovering lookslike.
It's just like a vacuum, sothey're just like sucking you up
into this bath, like into thisvortex, if you will.
(24:02):
And then, really, pink flagsit's like the pink flag is what
we all want so desperately tonot be red.
But it's just because it'sfaded, because your abuser has
used the shit out of it, andit's like crinkled up and
they're like look, it's not red,it's just old and used and
washed up and dirty.
(24:23):
It is still red and you need torecognize it as your reason to
leave.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
When you said pink flag, I knew exactly what it
meant, without you evenexplaining it.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You're like.
Those are at least five and youknow, I think, what people one
of the um, the a and bitchinaryis not even a word, it's a
question, and a pathologicalperson will ask you this all the
time.
And if this is being asked,then you need to understand that
this person is not good for you.
Are you crazy?
If you ever are with somebodyand you're having a conversation
(24:58):
and you're trying to recountthe argument that just happened
last night and it's a very blackand white argument Like you got
mad at me because I didn't buywhole milk.
I bought the only thing left,which was 2% milk, and I know
you really like whole milk, butI don't have that available to
you, so your coffee's going tosuck tomorrow, tomorrow, but I
love you.
Can we work this out?
You are worthless.
You can't do anything right.
(25:19):
I gave you a list and youcouldn't follow the list and
also you're a bad mom and noneof your friends like you and
you're kind of fat and you werecute when I met you, but now
you're not so much and all thisthat they do, and then the next
day you wake up and you're sadand you feel really worthless
and you want to approach thatperson and, mind you, you're
having like cutting your feet onthe eggshells that you're
(25:40):
walking on towards theirlocation in your home to say,
hey, so can we talk about whathappened last night.
It really hurt me when you saidare you crazy?
You're crazy, are you crazy?
I didn't say that.
That didn't happen at all.
Oh, oh, here you go.
So you, you know what actuallyhappened and then they're going
to start a whole new fight whichthey don't care about, to make
(26:00):
you forget about this otherfight and to exhaust you.
So if your partner is askingyou on the regs, are you crazy?
You are most likely in it.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's so much better to be single.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Avoid all this drama, yes or we like go look at, are
we dating the same guy?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
san diego, make sure that your guy isn't like on
there yeah, I'm telling you myex was, and I think he also
abused his wife after me that hemarried also very quickly,
within six months thestrangulation piece is important
for your listeners too, becauseit's the number one predictor
of homicide.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So if your partner has strangled you and there's a
lot of things coming out fromeven the district attorney's
office here in San Diego that ifyou have been strangled and at
any point have lost anyconsciousness, you should go and
get a head scan because thereare post strangulation effects
that can happen.
There's also post strangulationdeath that can occur.
So they strangle you, you loseconsciousness and then you, like
(26:59):
you, die the next day.
But if your partner has puttheir hands around your neck at
any point to restrict youraccess to breathing which means
breaking it, dumbing it downlike I like to trying to unalive
you, to cut you off from air,they are more likely than not to
eventually kill you.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
And you know, like I said, that's why I ended my very
short marriage.
And the first time he did thatto me was before my wedding, at
a big wedding scheduled with 200guests coming at the Prado, and
I interrupted him while he wassteaming a shirt and did that to
me and I was scared, obviouslyso, being a divorce attorney, I
(27:40):
had him sign up for domesticviolence classes before the
wedding to make sure he gets acertificate before, instead of
canceling the wedding.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Of course, you know you're like he graduated top of
his class from the domesticviolence course.
So that was stupid, but I wastrying to take action.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
What would be a court order?
Oh, get somebody to do someclasses.
That didn't work, because youknow, within four months of our
marriage, aside from otherincidents, he did that and worse
and I thought I'm not going tosee my mother again.
I thought that was it, and youknow, that's when I filed for
divorce the next day and peopleare like, why are you only
(28:19):
married for four months?
Well, that's why.
But I was always, I'm alwaysthinking like, if it happened to
me, I'm certain it happened towomen after me and I wouldn't be
surprised if one day I Googledand found that it didn't end
well with someone else.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Tigers don't change their stripes right, they're
going to keep doing it.
And we perpetuate the violenceby staying silent, so we allow
it.
So I will tell you even a lotof history, myself included.
When there's like, oh well,look, they were in trouble for
domestic violence before, butthere's this long window where
they've done nothing so they'rerehabilitated.
Most likely that those peoplein between this moment and this
(29:00):
moment never reported it.
So unreported abuse is massiveand just because you didn't
report it doesn't mean it didn'thappen and we say on like on
bitch is a bad word.
I'm like there's no safety instaying silent because this is
what's getting people killed.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I'm a lawyer.
But I stayed silent becausewhen the police came and I had
red marks all over my neck andI'm sure they have videos and
everything I told them.
I didn't want to prosecutebecause I didn't want him to
lose his license, because I feltsorry for him at the time not
for myself, right, and I think alot of people do that.
And there is no website whereyou put those people's name in
(29:34):
so that other women can see.
And the legal risk is that ifyou do, they can sue you for
defamation or whatever.
In my case, for example, Iwould have the police, evidence
and documentation.
They actually came and there'sphotos, videos.
They took body cam videos.
But for those who don't callthe police, there is a fear
factor in stating someone's namepublicly right somewhere else
(30:00):
unless it's through lawenforcement.
I want to say until provenguilty, they're innocent, right
so?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
this is coming from a strong-ass woman who has a
doctorate degree and is anattorney and is like absolutely
fearless.
This woman is fearless.
She just like has nolimitations at all.
I've never seen anything likeit.
I mean, imagine people who arenot like that it can happen.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I mean, you're such a great case in point because it
can happen to anyone, likedomestic violence, sees, no, you
know, color, creed, lifestyle,financial, whatever.
It's an epidemic, I believe,and I think it's our country, or
maybe our planet's nationalhealth crisis and, thank God,
people are talking about it.
You know we're getting outthere and we are taking you know
(30:44):
I take a big risk, alwayssharing my story and having the
show and, believe me, there isalways some sort of cease and
desist.
I'm going to go on tour, by theway, my podcast is going to go
on tour and it's going to becalled the cease and desist tour
because I can talk about it inevery city and I want to get the
word out there, especially tothe younger generation, to like,
(31:06):
understand these red flags andbefore it gets bad.
And you know, education isobviously what people need.
To be like you.
You need to destigmatize it.
We need to educate women and tosay you know what you, you can,
you should leave and this isn'tsafe.
And I also love to talk aboutjust quickly, if you're in a
situation like I, I'm listeningto you talk about your marriage,
(31:28):
your night before your wedding.
Do not try to have a birthday,a holiday, a Christmas, a
promotion, a good day with apathological or narcissistic
person, because they love toruin it Like every single good
opportunity that you could havefor yourself.
They will fuck it up.
They're like I'm so excited.
Like that's the day they'regoing to be crying.
That's the day that they'regoing to have the catastrophe,
(31:50):
that's the day they have theworst day ever.
And you start learning thesepatterns of how these people are
and you're like.
If they can't celebrate you orhave like, allow you to have any
of these good moments early on,those are the flags that we
need to start recognizing andwalk away and say you know, I'm
raising women.
I have two daughters.
I'm teaching them to not benice.
(32:11):
You don't need to be nice.
Speak up for yourself, say no,but also leave the date when the
like get up.
Don't like.
You don't owe anybody anyexplanation you have.
We have lost our autonomy andif you lose your autonomy early
on, you're going to lose allfinancial autonomy, everything
else to say you're like a dickand I'm leaving right now.
You don't even actually say that.
(32:31):
But if somebody starts throwingthe flags, get up and walk out.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Value your time because, again, again, we do
have one life to live I think alot of women like want to see
the best in people.
I do want to say one thing thatI want to point out here,
because you talked about being astay-at-home mom and how
special that is, and I have alot of friends who are
stay-at-home moms and I justwant to say that like there is a
lot of beauty in that and thereis a lot of beauty in like not
having to be an independentwoman If you have a spouse or a
(32:57):
partner that respects you andloves you and actually
appreciates the value that youbring without working.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Well, and can I say on this, can we normalize
changing the conversation to?
You married each other andyou're both working.
You've decided to stay at home.
How can we normalize theconversation?
To say this might be a goodidea for us to have a new
contract.
We're going to do like, if I'mon, if I'm not earning, cause.
Remember, if a man is content,like a man never changes his
(33:28):
station in life, he doesn'tchange his hormones.
He doesn't change Like nothingchanges.
We've changed a hundred timeshaving babies, or hormones are
changing, all these things andwe're not working.
He's out working.
His network is growing, hisbank account is growing, his
ability to keep earning isgrowing.
You exit the workforce.
Unless you are and maybe evenan attorney couldn't do this
(33:49):
you're not going to reenter theworkforce 10 years later at the
same level that you exited andyour competition is huge.
You might have like, like youknow, aged out of new technology
or whatever it was.
You doesn't guarantee thatyou're going to be able to earn
the way that you earned.
So maybe we should normalizethe conversation between
partners or endorse women to say, hey, I do want to stay at home
(34:13):
, but this, this is the reality.
I am going to be losing myresources, my connection, my
Friday night cocktail, like allthe things.
Let's just have a new deal,let's have a new contract.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It doesn't have to be a, it's got to be a written
contract not an oral contractBecause otherwise, with oral
contracts, you have limited timeafter separation to file a
Marvin action in civil court,which you know you have to pay
lawyers per hour and you'regoing to spend over $150,000,
probably out of pocket.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And a healthy person, a healthy partner, will not
have any problem with you askingfor this.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Like, if you love someone and empathize with them,
you will empathize with thedifficulty that that person is
facing and having to leave thatidentity behind to create this
new identity.
A and B.
The difficulty of being astay-at-home parent, because I
see this both with.
It's a huge job.
It is, I always say, like beinga mom is my second shift and
(35:12):
it's much harder than being alawyer.
I come home and there's nonegotiation.
People want what they want andevery time I turn around,
someone has pooped needs to eat,throws up Like they're out of
something and you have to Amazonit.
There is absolutely no breakfrom being that.
Whereas in the office you canclose your door, put it on D&D
and take five minutes to breathe, you don't do that at home.
(35:34):
You can't even pee in peace.
Cheers to that.
Love it.
Thank you so much, my pleasure.
If this episode resonated withyou, please don't forget to like
and subscribe and we'll see younext week on the Glamorous
Grind.
He had done worst things physically to me, but I
had just made the decision thatI'm going to believe him.
Welcome to.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The Glamorous Grind.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Our past few episodes have touched on centers that
are taking strides to helpsurvivors of domestic violence,
but today we want to focus on anindividual who is doing the
same.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I am a podcaster.
I have a podcast called Bitchis a Bad Word and we shine light
on the dark epidemic ofdomestic abuse.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Our guest has built a platform for survivors of abuse
to tell their own stories.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
When you're being love bombed is actually most
likely a trauma bond.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
She's taken her trauma and turned it into a
toolkit.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I spent a very long time with the family court
system being my abuser'splayground.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
She's the host.
Of Bitch is a Bad Word.
Lindsay Abernathy.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us today.
This is such a privilege.
So now we are going to play RedFlag, green flag Notice the
flags are very glamorous andsparkly.
We're going to talk aboutthings that could happen in
relationships and you let usknow if it's a red flag or a
green flag, and why.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Green flag or red flag?
Your boyfriend asks you to quityour job and travel with him
around the world.
He's going to pay foreverything before you have
children.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Sounds personal.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Red flag.
What Sounds great, set me up.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
So yeah, I'd say it's a red flag If it's happening
soon and super fast.
I would imagine that thisperson is love bombing you and
they're not giving you anopportunity to take a beat and
see who they truly are and theywant everything to be fast and
furious and glamorous and youneed to be able to say this is
(01:52):
kind of nuts, Like why this isway too fast.
I guess it could go green if,when you say I think this is
going too fast, I need to take aminute, that they say they
respect the boundary, but Ithink anything that's just like
wham bam, sweep you off yourfeet.
I think it's a red flag.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Okay, red flag or green flag Partner notices your
boundaries without you eventelling them what they are.
This is a green flag.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
A cute green flag.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It happens, ladies, it happens.
I think nowadays, with you knowthe widespread knowledge and
education, I think there are alot more men and women who are
more cognizant of the otherparty's emotions and love
languages and really try to makehappy relationships I think
that's how my boyfriend lockedme down and love languages and
really try to make happyrelationships.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I think that's how my boyfriend locked me down.
He gave me my space when I waslike, hey, I kind of need you to
leave or let me do my thing,and that won me over.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
You think like you need that big, barbaric guy who
just like blasts through yourboundaries.
And the guy who's like, beingsweet and cool is like you need
the sweet and cool is like uh-uh, you need the sweet and cool
guy.
It doesn't mean he can'tprotect you.
I mean he's probably he's notgonna hurt you and he's probably
going to protect you.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
But I say this too this guy is never gonna give you
those butterflies in yourstomach and you're gonna think
he's boring as fuck but here'sthe thing at this point in my
dating career my girlfriendswere like just you don't have to
look at whether he has a goodbody or if he has hair, just you
know, find a good guy stop me.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
This guy is gonna send out all the butterflies and
all the alarms.
But that is your body,literally, because your gut
knows before.
Your head is saying the vibesare not vibing, run like hell.
He is dangerous.
But you're like, oh, it's my,I'm gonna change him emotionally
, regulate myself around thisperson, he must be amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Red flag or green flag, you feel you have to
record your arguments to protectyour memory of a conflict,
because later the conflict getstransformed into something you
don't recall.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Red flag.
They are gaslighting the fuckout of you.
They're gaslighting you so muchthat you start gaslighting
yourself.
You're like this didn't happen.
So when you are having torecord the conversation or
you're having to like, rememberthis, remember this.
Remember this has happened.
It's absolutely a pathologicalperson emotionally abusing you
(04:32):
and we have to raise the bar.
And I have said that I set thebar so low with my ex that I
tripped over it.
I fell into the wall, hit myeye, caused a bruise that he
actually had caused and I blamedit on the wall.
We are setting the bar so lowwith these pathological people
that we are tripping over thebar that we're setting and we
(04:56):
are giving them this opportunityto continue to abuse us
emotionally.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Many clients I have now.
When I meet with them, I don'tknow how to get through to them
say, hey, leave, don't protecthim, protect yourself, protect
the kid.
But they are not hearing itbecause they're not there yet.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I'm finding there's a lack of support and
understanding for women orvictims that need a true team of
trauma-informed lawyers.
You need a trauma-informedtherapist.
Perhaps you need a divorcecoach.
You need to understand sort ofwhat your, because your barrier
to leave is already verydifficult.
How are you going to strategizethe rest of your life?
(05:37):
How are you going to strategizethe next six months?
And I didn't have any of thosethings lined up and I ended up.
You know, I left with $40 in mywallet and I never saw more.
I mean, my lawyers made moremoney than I did.
Barrier to success is huge andwhat I find with women reaching
(06:10):
out through our nonprofit andthrough Bitch is a Bad Word is
there's a whole underbelly thatI didn't know.
As a woman of privilege, I don'tthink a lot of attorneys
understand that they don't evenmake it to the family court or
they're in a family court and ajurisdiction like Arkansas or
like somewhere completely likerun in a different Wild West
(06:31):
sort of fashion and women arelosing their kids to liars and
perpetrators.
There's corruption happening,like in certain areas too, where
I've spoken to a woman whohasn't seen her child and over
400 days, and because they'rethe, there's just somebody's in
(06:53):
somebody's pocket.
And this is happening in theSouth and I will tell you on a
personal experience throughfamily court.
A lot of women are scared to goafter their ex for the child
support.
They're scared to like I likenthem a snake in the basket and
like, when they're quiet and thesnake is like there's nothing
happening, you're like life isreally peaceful right now.
(07:13):
I don't really want to rock theboat.
I went after my ex.
When I finally kind of got myhead out of I was of like
survival mode and realized thisis real life.
I am entitled to this.
I am.
I have earned.
I said I created great valuefor our family and he said you
(07:33):
took the value with you when youleft and you broke up our
family and I believed that for areally long time.
Then I'm like hold on.
There's a comma.
After broke up our family commabecause you were abusive, I had
to leave.
It was no longer safe,emotionally or otherwise, for
anybody in this environment tostay.
It doesn't mean that I shouldnot be taken care of or take
what is earned.
(07:54):
I put a case against him and hesent me a text message and he
said drop this case immediatelyor you and your fellow cunts
will see the wrath of me.
Because he calls the women onmy show the C word.
That's his favorite.
That's why I dropped myepisodes, by the way, on
Tuesdays, so I can say see younext Tuesday.
Every week he made good on thethreat and he filed a temporary
(08:17):
restraining order against methat protected his wife and his
two children.
And when you read how he gotthis, what he said is he said
that I promote violence againstmen on my podcast.
So he put the transcript oflike the first opening where we
were talking about LorenaBobbitt and Betty Broderick and
(08:39):
we said you know, this wasreactive abuse.
And I actually had an expert,bill Eddy, on talking about
reactive abuse on the podcast weneed a drink for that yeah.
So he said and we said you know,if there was me too, or twitter
back when lorena bobbittchopped off his penis, we
(09:02):
probably would have discoveredthere was domestic violence
behind the act.
I don't think she just went outof nowhere and just went psycho
and did it.
Then I talk about BettyBroderick, which is also a hot
topic in our area.
But she didn't do these things.
These women did the wrong thing, they committed crimes and they
have to pay for those crimes.
So, yes, I don't support thatat all.
(09:24):
The topic of the episode waswhat happens in reactive abuse,
like how do we stop, how do weget women to leave, before
something like lives are alteredforever, when they're being
abused time and time and timeagain, where they just lose it?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
so in this restraining order he says that I
promote violence against men soyou mean he said he took
exactly what you said, he tookit out of context and used it
against you.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Shocker, yeah shock and he didn't leave the last.
He actually left out the wrong,the last part where we said
this was wrong.
Like you know, we don't condonethis.
He makes this a threat.
You know, drop the case againstme or you'll see.
Then I happen to be in thevista courthouse getting my diso
file for the other case, myfamily law file um, because it
(10:12):
was protected and I see him andmy kids there and I say like
what the hell are they?
Why are they here?
And so my young kid's.
I say what the hell are theydoing?
Why are they here?
My young kid's like mama, mama.
I go what are you guys doing?
He looks at me and I just knewlike something.
They walk out.
I go to the clerk.
I said is there anything elsethat's been filed as of today?
She said yes, a restrainingorder against you.
Seeing my children, I'm goingto have a hard time with this.
(10:35):
The last time I saw my kids wasin the family.
It was in the courthouse inVista, when they said Mama.
And I said you guys, you need,you need to leave, you don't
need to be here.
What are you doing?
And I look at him like what areyou doing?
Is that in 2022?
This just happened in March andbecause he had planned it so
perfectly for it was like hislong weekend.
Then.
Then it was spring break andthen the courtroom was dark for
(10:58):
a week.
I didn't see my kids for 24days.
I could not go to their school,I could not access, I was
completely forbidden and I waslike from seeing my kids.
So I filed ex parte.
I went to the judge and I saidyour Honor, he's like I think
that this is a ploy for him tobe able to take the kids.
Here's the text message wherehe says says if I don't drop
(11:24):
this case against, and he's, thejudge is like well, I don't
really see how that's a threat.
I don't really see.
And in that moment was the lastday of school before spring
break.
My ex said sorry, I couldn'tcome in person because I was
just dropping my kids off fromschool.
At school, I leave the courtroomand I get an email from the
school saying that they hadn'tbeen taken to school.
You know, like an absenteething, I go right back and I'm
banging on the judges like Iknow that that's not OK, but I'm
(11:45):
like I don't care, I'm going tobe a hyper woman here and I'm
like banging on the chamberslike yes, and I said we were
just in court.
He just lied to you and saidthat he was dropping the kids
off at school.
Look he off at school, look hewasn't.
And they go.
Okay, like we'll see you monday, I will.
We'll revisit this case onmonday.
The judge asked him he'sgaslighting the judge, I'm
(12:05):
listening.
He's like gaslighting the judge.
This judge sort of lets it go.
I'm like this if the only thingyou have in court is like your
is honor, is your truth, likeyou have is telling truth.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
See, unfortunately, people take an oath under
penalty of perjury and peoplelie and sometimes the court
doesn't enforce it, although ifthey think it was punished, more
less people would be lying andcausing the others to have to
prove and disprove what the realtruth is.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I didn't see the kids for 24 days.
I had to prove my innocence.
I had seven witnesses.
The day that he chose that Ihad this home invasion was like
the greatest day ever, becauseit was a planned birthday
celebration for me, so it wasthe most documented day that I'd
had.
So, but Uber receipts I wrotegraphs like here's where I
started, here's where we ended.
Uber receipts, restaurantreservations photographs, four
(12:56):
witnesses in person, my producerof my podcast to show that we
don't promote violence againstmen in court for an eight hour
day to prove that I didn't do itDuring that 24 days.
He also claimed that I broke therestraining order.
So then there was a contemptcharge against me and I'm like
and the contempt?
The contempt charge was she sawus at the beach and then we saw
(13:19):
her running away.
And then I'm like okay, well,hold on on its face like I was.
If I really was there at thebeach, at a public place and you
saw me running away, I was notin contempt, I was honoring the
restraining order.
I left, but again, I had ringcamera footage of where I was on
, nowhere near the beach, heclaimed.
But he could just lie, did heever get punished?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
No, this is what I'm talking about when I say that I
feel like the court system,especially on the family law
side, protects wrongdoingssometimes.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Here's how it works.
See, the court system is backedup.
There are so many people thathave problems that the judges
need to deal with.
The judges have packedcalendars that have problems
that the judges need to dealwith, and the judges have packed
calendars, and the problem isthat it takes about 60 to 90
days for you to have a 20 to 40minute hearing before the court
For domestic violence matters.
Those take priority, so thejudge puts them in advance of
(14:10):
everything else.
But from the time someone filesa restraining order over the
counter, the next hearing may bein 21 to 25 days potentially,
and unfortunately you may notsee your kid.
You can go ex parte and try toget visitation rights If there
is a good cause and if you haveproof, so that you don't have to
(14:31):
wait those 21 days, but youhave to be good at presenting
evidence and show that.
Oh, you shouldn't be waitinguntil the actual day in court
three weeks later.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
And imagine, like his only witness right, his only
witness is his wife.
I'm like, how do I, how is Iwas?
I learned so much in thisexperience?
And I even said to the judge Iwas like how do I get my time
back with my young kids?
And he's like, well, hopefullyyou guys can work that out.
Like clearly, this is not aworking out kind of relationship
.
(15:04):
I just are we all on the samepage, that we don't work well
together.
And you know, I have to alwayssay too, like when people get
labeled high conflict we werelabeled by our attorneys as high
conflict.
I realize now later it onlytakes one person to create the
conflict, it doesn't mean thatboth people are.
And in that moment I thoughtI've just lost my kids.
For all these days I was awreck, I couldn't function.
(15:25):
And then I speak to women whoare going Lindsay, I haven't
seen my kids in 300 days.
I haven't seen my kids in twodays.
I haven't seen my kids in twoyears I haven't seen.
There's a whole, like I said,underbelly that's happening.
That is so scary that for megoing after my husband for this
child support seems dangerous.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Hundreds of thousands of people that are in the same
situation, that either need newrestraining orders or have
hearings pending, and all thosepeople would love to have an
attorney.
An attorney was going to fightfor them, present their case
because they're not in acondition to be able to gather
their evidence together and makea case for themselves because
they're emotional.
(16:02):
Even I, as an attorney,probably be better off having an
attorney in court thanlitigating for yourself, because
when it concerns you, yourchildren, your life, you come at
it from a completely differentperspective than you may be in
your profession or normal life.
So hundreds of thousands,millions of people who need
legal assistance.
They cannot afford it.
(16:23):
In fact, over 75% of alllitigants who have attorneys at
some point becomeself-represented at some point
in litigation because peoplecannot afford lawyers.
And then there are volunteerorganizations who have limited
resources and who may not havethe most experienced attorneys.
They have good hearts but theymay not be so strong in court.
(16:44):
They haven't done as manyrestraining orders.
They may not be able to giveyou such good strategic advice
as those who litigate all thetime be able to give you such
good strategic advice as thosewho litigate, you know, all the
time.
So there's limitation ofavailable attorneys, affordable
attorneys, and then you'rerestricted by the backed up
court system and people who gothrough domestic violence issues
(17:05):
.
They need a lot of attentionand they may want to talk to
their lawyer all the time aboutthings that maybe, from
financial perspective, it's bestto talk to a therapist about.
And other free sources areavailable and, you know, one of
the places we partnered up withis one safe place which I was so
glad to hear.
They can help anyone, no matterif you're rich or poor.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
There are organizations that can help at
no cost, and once they've one ofthem Only to a certain point.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
To a certain point, some people can't afford an
attorney.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
There's just no way they don't qualify for a loan.
There's absolutely no way theycan afford counsel.
And what do they do from there?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
We actually just partnered with them as well.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I was thinking about that, that you guys would be
great partners we met with her.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
We just have to, like , sign the MOU, but the same
thing just or for a place,mostly so that we have women who
come to us, because you knowwe're nonprofits, we have
limited funding, but I have aplace.
Now I can send someone a BFFright away.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
What do you do to help them?
Let's say somebody.
How did someone reach you whois a victim of domestic violence
?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
and how can you help them.
For BFF Alliance, we are likean underground resource, so our
marketing is like very word ofmouth, qr code style, and we're
a boutique organization offeringservices to women who are like
I don't want to talk about TV,you know with their like bloody
(18:35):
face and you're like, okay, well, you are abused.
No, I'm not.
Okay, well, let's get you thehelp you need.
So what, we are all word ofmouth and what I offer is just
like a landline.
I'm going to be your, I'm goingto speak to you, I'm going to
help you understand, like, getyou through the trauma.
I'm going to be your bestfriend for a little bit and
we're going to get you down to apoint where your regulation of
emotions are very high.
(18:55):
And let's help you understand.
I'm, my job is to help thiswoman, not go back, and I'm
going to share with you thereasons why you shouldn't go
back and let me help you just asyour friend.
And then we're going to seewhat do you need you need a
lawyer, or what are yourresources?
What are your opportunities?
Do you have access to funds?
Do you not have access to funds?
So only now that we have thispartnership with One Safe Place,
(19:18):
can I and also feel really good.
By the way, I love them becauseit is a beautiful location, it
doesn't feel clinical, or youknow, I love the like children's
room and the
Speaker 3 (19:32):
children therapy room .
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's amazing like a little um medical suite and you
know, in-house too, which I love, it feels approachable right
and it feels accessible.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yes, it does, and so for us at.
You know, when we are speakingto someone, a lot of times again
, women are.
They're not ready toacknowledge that.
This is where they are.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
It takes time, yes, a lot of therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Well and we say this too, like if you're an affluent
woman and I'm not saying thatlike we will help anybody but
where I realized that there waslike a missing piece is you have
done such a good job as anabused woman to lie to everybody
in your life about what ishappening.
So then you also are walkingaround with this giant scarlet
letter that you feel like I'vejust told everybody my life is
(20:16):
amazing.
I'm sitting at Rancho Valenciawith all my friends.
I'm not sitting there like howfucked up did you get by your
husband?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But the stronger you are, the less you want to
victimize yourself, right.
Like the stronger woman don'twant to go around and talk about
how horrible their lives.
It's about shame.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's yeah, it's about shame, but you're not talking
about it.
You're like so then, when youcome out, people are like, well,
this is weird.
Like all of a sudden, tina'stalking about abuse.
Well, this seems, oh, she'sprobably just doing it so she
can get more money.
Like there's so much likestigma on this, that like why
we're not making it safe forwomen to come out look at
Cassidy like look, what'shappening right now?
(20:54):
This no one's making it saferfor women to come out and speak
up.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You know we're not saying well, I think what I mean
?
Safer?
I mean you either are the typeof a person who is gonna tell
your story and share what'shappening with you, or your
private person and you keep itto yourself, right, right, you
may tell your friends, you maytell your mom.
I think most people tellsomebody.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But I think that can change.
I think you can be private.
I mean, I had a situation in myfamily where a woman was abused
for many years and then, by thetime she felt that she was
comfortable to come out and, youknow, leave her abusive spouse.
No one believed her.
Everyone's like, oh, likeyou're the problem.
Yeah, you need to not talk back.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Well, and then he'll remember the whole, the second
you decide to share that personbecause they are so good,
they're already and theyprobably have for years been
doing the silent smear campaignagainst you and planting.
They've got the you know theflying monkey that goes back and
reports.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Give us a definition of your new term flying monkey.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I have a bitchinary.
Oh hey, you can go to my showand look, but we have a
bitchinary, which is a glossaryof all these terms.
I try to make?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Is that book?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
for sale on Amazon.
It will be Everything I eversaw about abuse when I was
Googling.
I remember, like sitting in thebathroom, like on my phone, and
is this an abusive relationship?
Ok, yes it is.
I don't really need to Google.
If you're Googling, are you anabusive relationship?
The answer is yes.
I can just save you the searchhistory that they'll use against
(22:26):
you later anyway.
But and you're monitored.
I have 100 percent.
They're monitoring you.
But it's like I'm trying tobreak it down to a level of like
.
I'm not making light of itbecause it's a light subject.
I'm trying to use like humor ismy trauma response.
I'm trying to make itapproachable and I'm trying to
(22:47):
make it be like okay, this iswhat this looks like.
So a flying monkey is usually aperpetrator, or like a
pathological person has that onenegative advocate, the enabler
that enables the bad behavior.
So let's say it's themother-in-law and he's gone to
her like, oh God, she's so crazy, she was losing her mind last
night Meanwhile.
So the mother's coming over,you know, immediately being like
(23:07):
what are you doing to my son?
Like, why are you like you?
And then you're sitting thereand you're like but last night
he was beating me up and he wascalling me the C word.
And then that little, thatperson, the negative advocate,
is the flying monkey, just likein Wizard of Oz, who flies in
reports back to the Wicked WitchAll the shit you said.
So that person can like packageit all up and re throw it in
(23:32):
your face and then they look athow dare you talk about our
personal life to my family?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Can you tell me your top favorite five words from?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Bitchinary Okay, flying monkey a million percent
Masturbators.
The narc vaults that's wherethey keep all of your secrets
and your vulnerabilities.
Hoovering that's like we couldhave a second series where we
talk about what hoovering lookslike.
It's just like a vacuum, sothey're just like sucking you up
into this bath, like into thisvortex, if you will.
(24:02):
And then, really, pink flagsit's like the pink flag is what
we all want so desperately tonot be red.
But it's just because it'sfaded, because your abuser has
used the shit out of it, andit's like crinkled up and
they're like look, it's not red,it's just old and used and
washed up and dirty.
(24:23):
It is still red and you need torecognize it as your reason to
leave.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
When you said pink flag, I knew exactly what it
meant, without you evenexplaining it.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You're like.
Those are at least five and youknow, I think, what people one
of the um, the a and bitchinaryis not even a word, it's a
question, and a pathologicalperson will ask you this all the
time.
And if this is being asked,then you need to understand that
this person is not good for you.
Are you crazy?
If you ever are with somebodyand you're having a conversation
(24:58):
and you're trying to recountthe argument that just happened
last night and it's a very blackand white argument Like you got
mad at me because I didn't buywhole milk.
I bought the only thing left,which was 2% milk, and I know
you really like whole milk, butI don't have that available to
you, so your coffee's going tosuck tomorrow, tomorrow, but I
love you.
Can we work this out?
You are worthless.
You can't do anything right.
(25:19):
I gave you a list and youcouldn't follow the list and
also you're a bad mom and noneof your friends like you and
you're kind of fat and you werecute when I met you, but now
you're not so much and all thisthat they do, and then the next
day you wake up and you're sadand you feel really worthless
and you want to approach thatperson and, mind you, you're
having like cutting your feet onthe eggshells that you're
(25:40):
walking on towards theirlocation in your home to say,
hey, so can we talk about whathappened last night.
It really hurt me when you saidare you crazy?
You're crazy, are you crazy?
I didn't say that.
That didn't happen at all.
Oh, oh, here you go.
So you, you know what actuallyhappened and then they're going
to start a whole new fight whichthey don't care about, to make
(26:00):
you forget about this otherfight and to exhaust you.
So if your partner is askingyou on the regs, are you crazy?
You are most likely in it.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's so much better to be single.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Avoid all this drama, yes or we like go look at, are
we dating the same guy?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
san diego, make sure that your guy isn't like on
there yeah, I'm telling you myex was, and I think he also
abused his wife after me that hemarried also very quickly,
within six months thestrangulation piece is important
for your listeners too, becauseit's the number one predictor
of homicide.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So if your partner has strangled you and there's a
lot of things coming out fromeven the district attorney's
office here in San Diego that ifyou have been strangled and at
any point have lost anyconsciousness, you should go and
get a head scan because thereare post strangulation effects
that can happen.
There's also post strangulationdeath that can occur.
So they strangle you, you loseconsciousness and then you, like
(26:59):
you, die the next day.
But if your partner has puttheir hands around your neck at
any point to restrict youraccess to breathing which means
breaking it, dumbing it downlike I like to trying to unalive
you, to cut you off from air,they are more likely than not to
eventually kill you.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
And you know, like I said, that's why I ended my very
short marriage.
And the first time he did thatto me was before my wedding, at
a big wedding scheduled with 200guests coming at the Prado, and
I interrupted him while he wassteaming a shirt and did that to
me and I was scared, obviouslyso, being a divorce attorney, I
(27:40):
had him sign up for domesticviolence classes before the
wedding to make sure he gets acertificate before, instead of
canceling the wedding.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Of course, you know you're like he graduated top of
his class from the domesticviolence course.
So that was stupid, but I wastrying to take action.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
What would be a court order?
Oh, get somebody to do someclasses.
That didn't work, because youknow, within four months of our
marriage, aside from otherincidents, he did that and worse
and I thought I'm not going tosee my mother again.
I thought that was it, and youknow, that's when I filed for
divorce the next day and peopleare like, why are you only
(28:19):
married for four months?
Well, that's why.
But I was always, I'm alwaysthinking like, if it happened to
me, I'm certain it happened towomen after me and I wouldn't be
surprised if one day I Googledand found that it didn't end
well with someone else.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Tigers don't change their stripes right, they're
going to keep doing it.
And we perpetuate the violenceby staying silent, so we allow
it.
So I will tell you even a lotof history, myself included.
When there's like, oh well,look, they were in trouble for
domestic violence before, butthere's this long window where
they've done nothing so they'rerehabilitated.
Most likely that those peoplein between this moment and this
(29:00):
moment never reported it.
So unreported abuse is massiveand just because you didn't
report it doesn't mean it didn'thappen and we say on like on
bitch is a bad word.
I'm like there's no safety instaying silent because this is
what's getting people killed.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I'm a lawyer.
But I stayed silent becausewhen the police came and I had
red marks all over my neck andI'm sure they have videos and
everything I told them.
I didn't want to prosecutebecause I didn't want him to
lose his license, because I feltsorry for him at the time not
for myself, right, and I think alot of people do that.
And there is no website whereyou put those people's name in
(29:34):
so that other women can see.
And the legal risk is that ifyou do, they can sue you for
defamation or whatever.
In my case, for example, Iwould have the police, evidence
and documentation.
They actually came and there'sphotos, videos.
They took body cam videos.
But for those who don't callthe police, there is a fear
factor in stating someone's namepublicly right somewhere else
(30:00):
unless it's through lawenforcement.
I want to say until provenguilty, they're innocent, right
so?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
this is coming from a strong-ass woman who has a
doctorate degree and is anattorney and is like absolutely
fearless.
This woman is fearless.
She just like has nolimitations at all.
I've never seen anything likeit.
I mean, imagine people who arenot like that it can happen.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I mean, you're such a great case in point because it
can happen to anyone, likedomestic violence, sees, no, you
know, color, creed, lifestyle,financial, whatever.
It's an epidemic, I believe,and I think it's our country, or
maybe our planet's nationalhealth crisis and, thank God,
people are talking about it.
You know we're getting outthere and we are taking you know
(30:44):
I take a big risk, alwayssharing my story and having the
show and, believe me, there isalways some sort of cease and
desist.
I'm going to go on tour, by theway, my podcast is going to go
on tour and it's going to becalled the cease and desist tour
because I can talk about it inevery city and I want to get the
word out there, especially tothe younger generation, to like,
(31:06):
understand these red flags andbefore it gets bad.
And you know, education isobviously what people need.
To be like you.
You need to destigmatize it.
We need to educate women and tosay you know what you, you can,
you should leave and this isn'tsafe.
And I also love to talk aboutjust quickly, if you're in a
situation like I, I'm listeningto you talk about your marriage,
(31:28):
your night before your wedding.
Do not try to have a birthday,a holiday, a Christmas, a
promotion, a good day with apathological or narcissistic
person, because they love toruin it Like every single good
opportunity that you could havefor yourself.
They will fuck it up.
They're like I'm so excited.
Like that's the day they'regoing to be crying.
That's the day that they'regoing to have the catastrophe,
(31:50):
that's the day they have theworst day ever.
And you start learning thesepatterns of how these people are
and you're like.
If they can't celebrate you orhave like, allow you to have any
of these good moments early on,those are the flags that we
need to start recognizing andwalk away and say you know, I'm
raising women.
I have two daughters.
I'm teaching them to not benice.
(32:11):
You don't need to be nice.
Speak up for yourself, say no,but also leave the date when the
like get up.
Don't like.
You don't owe anybody anyexplanation you have.
We have lost our autonomy andif you lose your autonomy early
on, you're going to lose allfinancial autonomy, everything
else to say you're like a dickand I'm leaving right now.
You don't even actually say that.
(32:31):
But if somebody starts throwingthe flags, get up and walk out.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Value your time because, again, again, we do
have one life to live I think alot of women like want to see
the best in people.
I do want to say one thing thatI want to point out here,
because you talked about being astay-at-home mom and how
special that is, and I have alot of friends who are
stay-at-home moms and I justwant to say that like there is a
lot of beauty in that and thereis a lot of beauty in like not
having to be an independentwoman If you have a spouse or a
(32:57):
partner that respects you andloves you and actually
appreciates the value that youbring without working.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Well, and can I say on this, can we normalize
changing the conversation to?
You married each other andyou're both working.
You've decided to stay at home.
How can we normalize theconversation?
To say this might be a goodidea for us to have a new
contract.
We're going to do like, if I'mon, if I'm not earning, cause.
Remember, if a man is content,like a man never changes his
(33:28):
station in life, he doesn'tchange his hormones.
He doesn't change Like nothingchanges.
We've changed a hundred timeshaving babies, or hormones are
changing, all these things andwe're not working.
He's out working.
His network is growing, hisbank account is growing, his
ability to keep earning isgrowing.
You exit the workforce.
Unless you are and maybe evenan attorney couldn't do this
(33:49):
you're not going to reenter theworkforce 10 years later at the
same level that you exited andyour competition is huge.
You might have like, like youknow, aged out of new technology
or whatever it was.
You doesn't guarantee thatyou're going to be able to earn
the way that you earned.
So maybe we should normalizethe conversation between
partners or endorse women to say, hey, I do want to stay at home
(34:13):
, but this, this is the reality.
I am going to be losing myresources, my connection, my
Friday night cocktail, like allthe things.
Let's just have a new deal,let's have a new contract.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It doesn't have to be a, it's got to be a written
contract not an oral contractBecause otherwise, with oral
contracts, you have limited timeafter separation to file a
Marvin action in civil court,which you know you have to pay
lawyers per hour and you'regoing to spend over $150,000,
probably out of pocket.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And a healthy person, a healthy partner, will not
have any problem with you askingfor this.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Like, if you love someone and empathize with them,
you will empathize with thedifficulty that that person is
facing and having to leave thatidentity behind to create this
new identity.
A and B.
The difficulty of being astay-at-home parent, because I
see this both with.
It's a huge job.
It is, I always say, like beinga mom is my second shift and
(35:12):
it's much harder than being alawyer.
I come home and there's nonegotiation.
People want what they want andevery time I turn around,
someone has pooped needs to eat,throws up Like they're out of
something and you have to Amazonit.
There is absolutely no breakfrom being that.
Whereas in the office you canclose your door, put it on D&D
and take five minutes to breathe, you don't do that at home.
(35:34):
You can't even pee in peace.
Cheers to that.
Love it.
Thank you so much, my pleasure.
If this episode resonated withyou, please don't forget to like
and subscribe and we'll see younext week on the Glamorous
Grind.
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