Viral Justice: How Attorney Ryan Is Changing the Legal Game on TikTok

This week on The Glamorous Grind, we sit down with employment attorney and viral legal influencer Ryan Stygar, aka “The Labor Lawyer” on TikTok. From his blue-collar roots in firefighting to building a law firm from scratch during the pandemic, Ryan shares the gritty truth behind online advocacy, legal education, and what it really takes to go viral.

🎙️ Inside the episode:

• How Attorney Ryan built a 2M+ following with legal truth bombs
• Why authenticity and empathy are his secret weapons
• Our viral “Red Flag / Green Flag” game on real-world legal scenarios
• The Starbucks viral firing case: Was it legal?
• What creators need to know before posting online
• Audience Q: Can your ex really sue for a TikTok post?

🔥 Whether you’re a lawyer, content creator, or just curious about the power of legal social media, this one’s a must-listen.

🎧 Subscribe on Apple & Spotify
 📲 Follow us @glamorousgrindpodcast
 💬 Leave a review if you love the show!

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Episode Transcript

Ryan (00:00):
I remember month eight.
I had like a breakdown in myhouse where I cried.
I cried because I was like Ican't believe how hard I'm
working, I can't believe howlittle it's paying off.
I have so many people making somany demands and it's just not
working.
I really had a moment where Iwas like I had a career in the
fire service.
Did I just irreversibly fuck mylife up?
And then, literally like twomonths or less after that

(00:23):
freakout, the settlement startedcoming in and things got easier
.

Mila (00:36):
Welcome back to the Glamorous Grind where law meets
lifestyle.
This week, we're diving intothe wild world of legal TikTok
what's real, what's risky andwhy legal creators are blowing
up on social media.

Ilona (00:52):
We're joined by the one and only attorney, Ryan, the
TikTok lawyer with nearly 2million followers.
He's here to break down whatlaw looks like online and what
the rest of us need to knowabout how the internet is
shaping our understanding ofjustice.

Mila (01:07):
Ryan, thank you so much for joining us.

Ilona (01:09):
This is such a treat.

Mila (01:11):
Yes, so tell us a little bit about yourself for those of
us, the small portion of thepopulation that doesn't know who
you are.

Ryan (01:17):
I'm sure it's a pretty big portion.
But anyway, yeah, my story is alittle different than a lot of
other attorneys.
I do have a blue-collarworking-class background.
I was a firefighter before Iwas a lawyer.
I worked for Cal Fire San Diegounit.
I did Desert Rescue in OcotilloWells.
I did Schedule B, that'swildland firefighting.

Ilona (01:35):
Did you do calendars for Christmas I?

Ryan (01:37):
did not get to do the calendar You're fired.
No, I did not.
Although the calendars are athing.
No, I did not.
Although the calendars are athing, Some departments will
actually do that.

Ilona (01:46):
I had them when I was 16.
I had firefiery calendarshanging in my room.
Oh my gosh.
No, you're not going to find mein any of those, but I did have
a really good time.

Ryan (01:59):
It was a great career and I like to say that I grew up in
the fire service.
I kind of went into it a veryyoung man and I learned a lot of
what guides me today.
It's kind of where I learnedhow to follow through when I say
I'm going to do something, takeaccountability when I make a
mistake.
How do I respond to problems oremergencies as they come up?
How do I use the tools I haveto fix something?
It was also a good place to seetoo, like how a team helps

(02:20):
someone in need.
How does a team of differentpeople with different skill sets
come together in an emergencyto get a good outcome for a
patient.
So I learned a lot of buildingblocks in the fire service.
But over time, to be quitehonest, I you know there were
some things in the fire servicethat weren't suiting my personal
goals.
You know, your career shouldreally be something that fuels

(02:41):
your personal life and more andmore I was finding that I
couldn't commit to things.
You know, a fire popped off.
I had to go and it didn'tmatter if I RSVP'd to a wedding,
it didn't matter if I put adeposit down on a vacation.
I had to go to that fire and Inoticed that I just felt I
didn't have as much control overmy life as I really wanted and

(03:08):
law became an option for me.
So I went to law school, got mydegree, passed the bar.
I was actually supposed to gowork for the district attorney's
office but of course, you know,covid happened and delayed some
things.
I already I mean I knew.
I wanted to stand up for people.
It's why I was interested inbeing at the DA.
I wanted to protect victims ofcrime and this opportunity to
protect a pregnancydiscrimination victim came
across my desk and I ran with itand I loved it.

(03:29):
And then I started making somevideos online because, hey, I
had to bring in more clients.
I didn't have my job anymorebecause of COVID.
I had one discrimination caseand I thought I can do more of
these what?
year was that when you started.
Oh gosh, 20 early, early 21 iswhen I opened my office, and
that was a really scary movebecause the whole plan from the

(03:50):
beginning was to go work forsomeone and get some experience
under me first.
But that just wasn't an optionin those COVID times, so I had
to open up, hang my shingle.
I didn't really have any money,so I just made Instagram videos
, which was really scary becauseI think I had like 800
followers, so not a very bigmarket to put myself out there

(04:11):
to.
But I just started saying, hey,this is what happens at work,
these are what your rights are.
This is what happens if you getfired while you're pregnant.
Here's what happens if your payis messed up.
And it took a while.
But as I made more and more ofthose videos, people started
reaching out to me hey, I've gota problem, you know.
And now here we are, yearslater.
We get about 150, 200 leads aday.

(04:34):
We have a system for managingall of that intake and I get to
choose my clients.

Ilona (04:39):
And I get to choose my cases.

Ryan (04:41):
It's a good position to be in, and what's cool is, even
though the methods have changedand I've certainly grown up and
changed a bit the mission hasn'tchanged.
It's still about helping peopleenforce their rights at work,
and once I got through thatfirst year, things got a lot
better.

Ilona (04:55):
What was rough about it?
The first year.

Ryan (04:56):
Making no money, scrambling to try to cover my
expenses Thank God my overheadwas really low back then but
trying to put my face out therehaving doors slammed in my face
because I was recently barredand I didn't have a lot of
experience.
No one knew my name really andI had to try to make a name for
myself and it was humiliating attimes.
People weren't always nice tome.

Ilona (05:18):
Like clients or other lawyers.

Ryan (05:19):
Both you know you'd have clients that are about to sign
with you and they go.
You've only been practicing foreight months.
It's like, yeah, but I knowwhat I'm doing and I have a team
behind me.
Like you're in good hands.
Like I want someone with moreexperience and it would hurt my
feelings.

Mila (05:33):
That's the problem with people, especially when they're
not paying anything, it'scontingency and they have the
option of hiring a new attorneyor, you know, an established
firm and that's theirprerogative.

Ryan (05:42):
Yeah, you have to sell them, really sell them, yeah and
fortunately I had mentors andstuff like people who I
represented.
Then they had excellent counsel.
We got great outcomes forpeople.
But there's a delay.
You know as well as anyone.
When you're working contingency, you're working for free for a
while and that was rough.
I remember month eight.
I had like a breakdown in myhouse where I cried.
I like cried in my living roombecause you.

Ilona (06:04):
You living with your mom and dad still.

Ryan (06:05):
No, I was, uh, I was on my own with my girlfriend and I
cried because I was like I can'tbelieve how hard I'm working, I
can't believe how little it'spaying off.
I have so many people making somany demands and it's just not
working Like I really had amoment where I was like I had a
career in the fire service, didI just irreversibly fuck my life
up?
And then you know, I had thatmoment.

(06:28):
It's okay to have moments ofweakness where you cry and freak
out that you're not a failurejust because you have to have it
yeah.
Otherwise you go postal.
You have to let your emotionsout.
But after that you know we juststuck with it and then,
literally like two months orless after that, freak out.
The settlement started comingin and things got easier.

Mila (06:46):
And you know what I think it's so important, and thank you
for being vulnerable andsharing this, because you know
what's in my mind is like all ofthose motivational videos where
it says, like success is, youknow, failure is a part of
success, but it's like everyonesees you now and you're the
TikTok lawyer.
Oh my God, attorney Ryan, noone saw those dark moments,

(07:08):
those scary days, those dayswhere you didn't know if you
were going to make it or not,and so I think it's imperative
to talk about it, because thereare people right now who are in
that position, who are sittingon their floor and crying and
not knowing what's going tohappen and thinking they're
going to fail.
And you could have that day.
You could have said screw this.

Ilona (07:26):
I'm done.
He had the discipline.
I think he learned that frombeing a firefighter.
In general, it comes down towhether or not you're going to
be successful.
It's about your work ethic andeven if you feel like things are
not going well, you don't giveup.
You keep going, which is whatyou've done.

Ryan (07:39):
I mean I'd love to say it was discipline or courage, but
really it was my lease agreement.
I had rent to pay.
That served just fine.
It kept you there.
But it's interesting you guysbring that up that the
vulnerability is kind of rare inthe legal community.
I think, especially when we'rein professional services you
don't want to show weakness tothe client, you want to make
sure they know they're in goodhands.
Although we are human beings,we can't be perfect all the time

(08:02):
.
And then in our industry I feellike there's a little bit of
flexing that happens.
Everyone wants to be seen asthe next hot shot trial lawyer
who never fails and they're justa trial dog and they make so
much damn money.
Like, we need to be real witheach other Absolutely, because
there's plenty of business to goaround and there's plenty of

(08:22):
friendship to go around and,frankly, you'll make more
lasting connections withprofessionals if you're just
real with people.

Mila (08:28):
I agree.

Ryan (08:29):
And no one is going to really empathize with.
Oh, I'm perfect andeverything's perfect and I've
never made a mistake.

Mila (08:35):
And I think clients and we talked about this on another
episode of people want to hirepeople, people don't want to
hire companies, right, so theywant to know who you are.
And especially in theemployment field, I mean, I have
to deal with clients, mentalbreakdowns daily, daily because
people are unemployed andthey're overthinking and they

(08:56):
just lost their job andeverything's unfair and and I
understand them.
But I have.
I can sit there and be likelisten.
I go through it too.
It is normal to be weak, it isnormal to be vulnerable
sometimes.
So I think it is important andI think people don't understand
how important it is.

Ryan (09:11):
And being able to empathize with the client is
crucial, especially when you'rein the employment context.
I mean family law too.
You know our family life andour career life is so interwoven
with our identity that when youlose your job or when you lose
your marriage or you knowanything like that, you have a
crisis.
You wonder who you are anymore.
Yeah, people, how many timeshave you heard?

(09:31):
As an employment lawyer, I gave15 years of my life to this
company.
I sacrificed everything.
I never asked for a raise, Inever asked for a day off.
And what do they do?

Ilona (09:40):
the minute I ask for something.
They fire me how often do yousee that anymore?
It seems like nowadays, peoplego from one job to another,
especially the young people, andthen they want to sue.
Before you came to meet with ustoday, I'm like, okay, let me
go on TikTok and see what is thehype about these employment law
videos.
And then I see a bunch of youngpeople online recording
themselves getting terminatedand I'm like, okay, well, this

(10:02):
is not.
There's probably more of thatnowadays than what you're
talking about Someone who's beenthere for a long time and
didn't you know was loyal to thecompany, don't you like?
What is your experience?

Ryan (10:12):
I don't know.
You know it'd be interesting todo some data on it.
I don't know if one is reallymore than the other.
There is a little bit ofdeception.
That happens online, where youknow you get a handful of videos
go viral and it creates theimpression that that's the trend
, even though it's not.
It's just a very visibleexample.
The truth of the matter isthere's still a very large
portion of the workforce that isin that kind of 50, 60, you

(10:34):
know retirement age andcompanies aren't treating them
the way they did 20, 30 yearsago.
They're not doing the pensions,they're not doing the gold
watch and a severance package.
They're more and more findingjust mass layoffs.
I just helped a clientyesterday.
She's one of 600 getting laidoff and, wouldn't you know it,
they're mixing it up a littlebit, but a slim majority of them

(10:57):
are older Now as for theyounger, population.
Yeah, I think less job loyaltyis absolutely something we are
seeing in, you know the youngerworkforce that's coming up, but
can we really blame them?

Ilona (11:09):
yes, I mean, oh, you know , hell yeah, you can blame them.
Come on, get you know take yourlife seriously.

Mila (11:16):
That's what I see like the three of us.

Ilona (11:18):
In general, I would say we had to work hard right start
from kind of nothing and nobodygave you anything.
You had to do it yourself andyou didn't give up.
You didn't.
Maybe it's not an area that youwanted to stay in, whether it's
law or a different career, butultimately, if you know that you
have responsibilities, you gotto.
You want to be successful, youstick with it.

Ryan (11:39):
I, you know.
I think there's room for both,actually, because what you're
saying is absolutely true Ifsomeone comes to my office and
is crying because their managerwas a little harsh with them.

Mila (11:49):
A little, not even.

Ryan (11:51):
Their manager asked them to do their job at their job.
God forbid.
You know, at some point it'slike, hey look, you're not in
school anymore, you have to doyour job and no one really cares
how hard you tried or what agood boy you are.
They care that you deliveredresults.
And that's not someone I'mgoing to represent, you know.
But certainly from the people Ido represent who have valid

(12:12):
claims, I am noticing a trendwhere a lot of promises are
getting broken in some of thesebigger companies.

Ilona (12:19):
Like what.

Ryan (12:20):
What kind you know.
In this country, I think therewas a promise for decades and
that promise was that if youworked hard, if you gave it your
all, if you got your education,if you committed yourself, you
would at least be able to afforda roof over your head and three
square meals a day.
It's very minimal.
We're not talking aboutlifestyle of the rich and famous

(12:40):
.
I agree with you.
There's some kids who I thinkthey've got a twisted idea of
what things are going to workout for them.
But for a lot of people it'sreally so simple.
It's.
I work full time, I work 60, 70hours a week.
Why can't I afford a onebedroom, one bath in the city I
was born in?
Why is it getting so hard forme just to afford eggs?
Not asking for filet, mignonand lobster tails, I'm just

(13:03):
asking to have some protein inmy daily diet.
And so what's happening is, youknow, we're seeing the real
wages not keeping up with workerproductivity, we're seeing the
cost of living just absolutelyrun away from those real wages
and we're seeing more and morediscontent.

Ilona (13:20):
So you're saying there, you're saying there's no
motivation for younger people,because they don people, because
they cannot foresee themselvespurchasing real estate, because
it's unaffordable.
They can't even rent realestate I'm talking about rent at
this point, forget aboutpurchasing real estate.

Ryan (13:36):
I mean, god forbid.
I was just helping my brotherthe other day and we were trying
to find something affordablefor him.
I mean it was $2,800, $3,000 amonth, just for some of the most
basic apartments and I rememberlooking at these and I'm like
when I was Drew's age I'm only11 years older than him when I
was his age these weresub-$2,000.
But Drew's getting paid aboutthe same I was getting paid at

(13:58):
his age.
So I don't know if it's a lackof motivation.

Ilona (14:03):
I think that people Incentive, I meant to say lack
of incentive.

Ryan (14:06):
I think so.
I think it's assertive.
The motivation is there, butthere is a lack of trust, and
the lack of trust has caused, Ithink, some resentment.

Ilona (14:16):
Trust in what.

Ryan (14:18):
Trust that if working class people do the things that
have worked in the past, it'llwork now, and so I think working
class Americans have a bit ofan identity crisis.
You know, the YouTube world isvery visible.
They see the Mr Beast, they seethe Logan Paul and they think,
ok, well, that's successful,maybe I can do that and they had

(14:40):
fast results, maybe I can havefast results.
They're not seeing so much thepeople going to college and
doing well, and on the otherside they're seeing people go to
college, rack up the debt, tryto get a career and they're
struggling.
So if these are the exampleswe're showing to kids, it's
really hard for me personally toblame them.
I mean, look, I got ablue-collar background.

(15:02):
I don't like people whiningwhen there's work to be done.
But at the same time I do feelfor these kids.
It's starting to look a littlescary out there and a lot of
them are trying to think okay,where do I direct my energy?
How the hell am I going to makeit in this world?
How am I going to make enoughmoney to live?

Mila (15:17):
That makes sense.
It affects everything, I think.
They come out of college, theycan't afford a place to live,
they can't even afford to rent,so obviously they can't get
married, they can't have kids,you know, and like their entire
life is kind of thrown off, andI see that all the time.
That's why everything is kindof getting pushed forward, and
then women are struggling to getpregnant because they're older.

Ryan (15:38):
Would a check for $5,000 help?
You have a kid.
Would that cover it?

Ilona (15:42):
No.

Ryan (15:45):
No, oh well, that's a shame.
That's the latest idea we'vehad, and I think it just shows
that some of the decision makersneed to consult more women,
probably.

Ilona (15:52):
Why do you think legal content has become popular on
platforms like TikTok?

Ryan (15:57):
Well, let's think about TikTok for a minute.
What's cool about it is it isthe ultimate presentation tool.
You know, in the old days, ifyou wanted to find information
about your rights, let's say youwant to know hey, do I really
have to give a cop my ID if hestops me in the street?
If my boss says that they'regoing to fire me and not give me
a reason, is that legal?

(16:17):
You had to know what you werelooking for.
You had to go to a library oryou had to do an internet search
and you had to be very carefulabout your research.
What's cool about tick tock isit shows you answers to
questions you don't even knowyou have.
You're just scrolling andsuddenly you see a video and
it's ryan saying hey, here'swhat happens if your boss denies
your pto request.
You know, wait, that's happenedto me.

(16:39):
I didn't think to seek it outright now, but now this
information is here.
This is really interesting.
Wait, what else has this guygot to show me?

Ilona (16:46):
uh, and that's what's so cool about tiktok, the idea how
to choose tiktok over instagramor other platforms well, uh, I
did all of them at once.

Ryan (16:56):
Uh, and what's cool about that is the algorithms are
always changing.
Your audience is always goingto be changing a little bit.
So, uh, you got to think ofeach app as like a room and each
room I'm setting up the samematerial for everyone to see and
interact with.
Just you know, who's in thatroom at any given time might
change.
And it just so happened thatfive years ago, tiktok was

(17:16):
really growth focused and it wasfairly easy to blow up there if
you were consistent.
And again, what's so specialabout TikTok is, unlike YouTube,
which does have a great explorefeature, you don't have to be
consciously thinking okay, I'msitting down right now to learn
my rights at work and I'm goingto search about my rights at
work.
It's no, it's.
You're just scrolling like, hey, here's a funny video, here's a

(17:36):
cool Red Bull stunt video, andoh, here's a guy telling me what
to do if I get fired.
I'm going to save this forlater, because my boss has been
a dick lately, you know.
And hey, what else does thisguy have to offer?
So that's why those platformsare so cool.
The general most people are notseeking out legal information,
but if it's presented to themthey will be interested yeah.

Mila (17:56):
Well, especially, I think, employment field is really
great for legal content, becauseeveryone has jobs, everyone is
employed, so it's most of us.

Ryan (18:08):
Some of us don't so it's.

Mila (18:10):
You know a lot of people find it helpful and you know I
do want to say it's also veryvulnerable for the content
creators, especially at first,to post and then see yourself.
I remember I told you I'm likeI'm so self-conscious that these
videos are awful and you werelike, just stay consistent.
You should have seen my firstvideos.

Ilona (18:30):
They also were awful.
It's like I'm going to send youthem Now you're making me want
to find one.
You know what If?

Ryan (18:35):
you can power to you.
I think I've scrubbed them.
They were bad and took thelongest to make and cost me the
most money, Like I bought likelighting and cameras and little
microphones and I'd write littlescripts.
And another mistake I made is Itried to really explain the law
as if I was speaking to lawyers, which was stupid.
I was trying to providecitations.

Mila (18:56):
Oh, I struggle with that All the exceptions and all that.
You have to be so relatable.

Ryan (19:01):
Yeah, and it's not relatable to be mr like.
Well, california labor code 63town states, but the exception
is it's like shut up, nerd swipe.

Ilona (19:10):
Oh my god, that's me my brain works like that okay, code
section, this subsection, thatwell, I think tiktok is also
more.

Mila (19:22):
it has more of the younger following, like I've noticed,
all of my younger cousins andstuff who are under, you know,
25, they're not really onInstagram, they're on TikTok.

Ryan (19:31):
It's funny you said that because I get older on older
clients on TikTok.
Really I've actually I onlyhave two more corporate clients.
I picked up a couple back inthe old days.
They were nice and I wanted tohelp them out.
Both my corporate clients camefrom TikTok.

Mila (19:45):
Do you defend them?

Ryan (19:47):
I do some advisory work for them.
There's one where I'll do somelitigation defense.
They're just old clients whoI've kept on.
They're great people.
My rule has always been thesame I don't work for assholes,
that's so funny, so like ifyou're a sexual harasser or
something.
Nope you can go somewhere else.

Ilona (20:04):
My familiarity with TikTok is with people post that
on Facebook, which is dancing,and people copying them.

Mila (20:11):
Oh, Ryan has some cool dancing videos.

Ilona (20:12):
Do you do that too?

Mila (20:13):
I really love the water gun videos.
The water gun Are they watergun or are they plastic guns?

Ryan (20:20):
Which one is that, I think ?

Mila (20:21):
you're in your workout attire and you have plastic guns
and you're just dancing around.
Oh, I think you're like in yourworkout attire and you have
like plastic guns and you'rejust like dancing around.
Oh, I think I had my bug saltgun because we had some flies
and I went on a littleTerminator mission.

Ryan (20:31):
You know I don't really do the dancing videos anymore.
I've actually found that thosewere really hot like three, four
years ago, and they just don'treally work anymore.

Mila (20:40):
Times change.
We've got to stay with thetimes.

Ryan (20:42):
Times have changed and my've got to stay with the times
.

Mila (20:44):
Times have changed but my content has changed too, your
content is great.

Ryan (20:46):
It's evolved over time.
If you look at what I'm postingnow versus what I did even a
year ago, it's becoming a littlebit more of a vlog and a little
bit more of my unfilteredopinions about things and
definitely more political.
Especially right now, I thinkit's on lawyers to rise to the
occasion.
It's a time of uncertainty.
It's a time of we're not surewhat the courts and what the

(21:07):
rule of law will look like inthe future, and I know it's
scary.
I know that some people willabsolutely hate you and what you
do.
I get a lot of hate too, butthe right people will find you
and I'd rather have a few peopledislike me for what I really am
and have a few people reallylove me and respect me for that,
you know.
And I think Kathleen Martinezis an excellent example.

(21:30):
Attorney Martinez, she's theone with the pink blazer, the
blonde hair.
You know who I'm talking about.
She's an excellent example ofstriking that balance between,
you know, being an advocate,teaching you your rights on
these things, and also being funand sassy.
She'll do the dancing, like youknow, stage things once in a
while, but also just saying, hey, this is what our government is
doing.
I disagree with it.

(21:51):
This is why I disagree with it.
People can disagree with you,but they can't disrespect the
fact that you're an educatedprofessional sharing your
opinion about things.
It takes guts and it won't makeyou popular in the short term,
but if you stick with it, longterm.
Part of this game is showing,not telling.
It is so easy to just get onthere and say we fight for your

(22:14):
rights, we're aggressive counselBullshit.
Everyone says that.
But get up there and show thatyou're not afraid to speak truth
to power.
Get up there and show thatyou're not afraid to be
contrarian, that you're notafraid to speak truth to power.
Get up there and show thatyou're not afraid to be
contrarian, that you're notafraid to defend an unpopular
decision, because that shit iswhat people see and go.
That lawyer's got balls.
I like that lawyer.
That lawyer will fight for me.

Mila (22:33):
Okay, so now we are going to play red flag, green flag and
you have your glamorous flags.

Ryan (22:38):
They do have sparkles.
I love them.

Mila (22:40):
Everything about us is glamorous.

Ryan (22:42):
Yeah, I'm going to steal these.
That's what's going to happen.
We can talk about it.

Mila (22:47):
Okay, so we are going to ask a question and you tell us
if it's a red flag or a greenflag and why.

Ryan (22:53):
Okay, okay.

Ilona (22:54):
What about recording your boss while you're being fired
and then Making it viral onsocial media?

Ryan (23:00):
Red flags.
Oh my God, why do you want torepresent that person?
Oh my God.

Mila (23:05):
Tell us why.

Ryan (23:06):
Dude.
It's just, it's no good for somany reasons.
And look privacy rights andviolating company policies aside
.
What you're doing is you'rethrowing out this version of
events for the public eye beforewe've had a chance to look at
everything that led to thatmoment, the context around that
moment, what was really said,what is just you acting for the
camera?
It's a disaster.

(23:26):
It absolutely muddies thenarrative of your termination
and if you're filming,subconsciously, you're going to
perform for that camera.
I had a case once.
Oh my God, this was such a mess.
The client had filmed it andshe really thought she was going
to get a confession from herboss, like she kept barking at
her boss, like, well, why areyou firing me?

(23:47):
Why are you firing me?
You're firing me because I'mpregnant, aren't you?
It's because I'm pregnant,isn't it?
Of course the boss isn't goingto say yes to that, are you
crazy?
And instead you look like acrazy person grilling your boss
and trying to make stuff up outof thin air.
It just doesn't look good.
So, no, don't be filming it.
Don't get your viral moment.
It's way more important to justbe civil, understand why you

(24:09):
got fired.
Don't sign anything, take it toyour lawyer and then we'll see
if there's anything we can do.
But if you're trying to goviral, okay, you'll make 90
cents on a million views.
Tiktok pays shit.
It's not worth it.

Mila (24:19):
Yeah, I agree.
And how many times have you hadpeople?
I have people call me all thetime where they're like I have a
secret recording and I want tosend it to you and I'm like,
nope, do not send it, that isillegal in California.
Just so everyone knows if youare recording anyone in
California and they don't knowabout it, that is illegal and
you can get sued.

Ilona (24:40):
Green flag on the advice sued.
Unless you're in a publicsetting or the door is open and
you're speaking so loud thatyour conversation can be heard
by others.
If there's a reasonableexpectation of privacy, then
it's illegal to distribute thataudio video and your lawyer
should not listen to it.
However, if you're in a publicplace and others overheard it or

(25:02):
a third party is present, evenif it's a child, then it's okay.

Mila (25:06):
I always say tell them.
I'm like, don't send me thevideo, I cannot listen to it,
and they get offended.
The clients get offended and Itry to explain it to them
because if they then get sued Ican be called as a witness in
that lawsuit.
I'm like I can't be yourattorney and a witness in a
lawsuit against.
I can't be your attorney and awitness in a lawsuit against.

Ryan (25:23):
It's like a whole mess.
Yeah, it gets messy fast andyou know those secret recordings
.
The problem is a lot of jobs.
They kind of have their ownnomenclature, their own lingo,
their own culture.
Again, context You're trying totake this secret recording of a
meeting that is really part ofa month's long story and it
doesn't make sense in the jury'smind why this is happening or

(25:45):
what's going on.
And, frankly, you're probablygoing to be emotional I wouldn't
blame you.
And now you've set up thiscamera, so subconsciously you're
thinking I'm going to get theseguys, I'm going to show them
how bad they've ruined my life,and you end up looking
hysterical.

Ilona (25:58):
I saw a video yeah, I saw a video before we met of one of
those viral videos and it's agirl like oh, I'm about to
record myself because I'mgetting fired, and you can tell
she's faking tears.
And then she says but I workedfor four months and I gave it my
all and OK.
And then she's crying like herlife is over.
It's so fake and I'm not anemployment law attorney, but I
could see that being used bydefense against her and totally

(26:21):
weakening her case rather thanhelping her.

Ryan (26:23):
That's exactly it.
And it's not to say that what'shappening to you isn't wrong or
unfair it absolutely is but howyou react to that thing is
equally important.
And those secret recordings Ihave never in my career seen one
that helped the case.
I've never seen a video thathelped the case Like what I
always tell people is be present, ask them why you're getting
fired, take some notes.

(26:43):
Don't plead your case, don'tcry, don't tell them you're
ruining your life, don't signanything and then just talk to a
lawyer after.

Mila (26:49):
Next question you ready?

Ryan (26:51):
I'm ready.

Mila (26:52):
Asking TikTok for legal advice before calling an
attorney.

Ryan (26:56):
Okay.
Well, I'm going to go ahead andgive you the red flag there we
go.
All right.
So the thing about TikTok isit's an excellent tool for
reaching people, but you need toactually vet every person who's
giving you information, becauseyou can have an excellent video
made by a true professional,but they're not in your
jurisdiction, or they're talkingabout laws that govern certain

(27:17):
jobs but not yours, or apply tocertain covered employers but
not yours.
This is general information foryour education only.
You should not be looking atsomething you see on TikTok and
say, ah, here's the secretstrategy.
To win my case you need to havethe personal attention of a
lawyer in your jurisdiction whounderstands all the facts of
your situation.
And then also, not all contentcreators are ethical.

(27:40):
Not all content creators areequal.
In three videos you'll see avideo that says raw milk is the
secret to never dying and you'llcure cancer.
The next video says raw milkwill kill you.
And the third video will sayraw milk comes from space aliens
.
And this is all simulation.
Like you really need to bediscerning about the context of
every piece of content that'scoming to you Right, exactly

(28:00):
yeah Red flag of content that'scoming to you.

Mila (28:02):
Exactly yeah Red flag.
I always get people trying toask me very specific legal
advice through messaging on.
Tiktok or Facebook.
I can't provide specific legaladvice, but some attorneys do.
They'll advise them completely.
To me that's like there's suchmoral.

Ryan (28:18):
I mean I will do it but you need to book an appointment
and you got to pay the fee andthen I'll give you all the legal
advice.

Ilona (28:24):
You want.

Ryan (28:24):
I mean to be clear.
Case evaluations are free at myoffice.
But if you don't have a case wecan sue for.
But you're like, hey, I'mreally scared.
I can see the writing on thewall.
I know they're trying to pushme out.
I just need help.
Dude, totally, we're going tobook an appointment.
I'll see what's it over dms.

(28:45):
That's crazy.
How much do you charge for that?
Uh, is it an hourly?
Uh, usually it'll be 400 for anadvice session.
Now to be clear, if you come tome and you say, hey, I've been
fired or I've been sexuallyharassed, or hey, I think my pay
is messed up and we see a casethat we want to sue for
contingency, we're not going tocharge you for that.
But if you're like, hey, youdon't have a case that we're
going to take right now, well,well, I'm stressed, I'm scared,
I need advice.
Okay, look, 400 bucks is thefee, but you're going to get an

(29:06):
hour of personalized attention.
Send me any documents you wantto look at.
Yeah, I'll do that for people.
Look, I'm a very busy guy.
I can't afford to give my timeaway for free.
I have a business to run, soI'm sorry, I'm not cheap, but at
the same time, I want people tohave a resource I got into this
because I give a shit I do andI want people to have someone
they can talk to.

Ilona (29:27):
Red or green flag on firing an employee for
controversial social media posts.

Ryan (29:33):
I have to give you both, because lawyer life it depends.
Okay, so we're going to do redflag If they are engaging in
some sort of protected speech.
Protected speech would besomething like talking about
unsafe work conditions, or maybethey're pregnant, planning on

(29:53):
getting pregnant, or they're ondisability.
You know any of these protectedactivities.
Firing an employee for thosethings can look like you had an
unlawful motive.
You know some kind of NLRAviolation.
Maybe you know a whistleblowercomplaint.
You know there's a couple ofways that can go bad.
I got to be honest, thoughthat's kind of the exception
General rule if you don't likewhat you're seeing on that

(30:15):
social media, you can let themgo.

Mila (30:17):
Or if it's in violation of your policy.

Ryan (30:19):
If it's a violation of policy.
So although I wanted to raisethe red flag first because I
think employers shouldn't kneejerk, you should really think
about it and talk to someonebefore you do.
The general warning foremployees is anything you say on
there can be used against you.
That First.

Ilona (30:35):
Amendment protection you have.
That's for governmentoppression of your speech.
Now I watched the video beforeyou arrived again on this issue,
just to catch up on youremployment law stuff.
Just to catch up on youremployment law stuff.
And there was a girl who gotfired because of a social media
post and the employer told herthat as she recorded her
termination, is it red or greenflag for the employer to tell

(30:56):
the employee that they'regetting fired because of a
social media post that theydon't like?

Ryan (31:01):
Well, again, it depends on so many factors.
The general rule this is ageneral rule with many
exceptions.
The general rule is it doesn'treally matter.
I mean, if the employer doesn't, and seriously let's not back
away from it.
Let's be straight with eachother.
If you got an employee who getsup there and says, you know,

(31:22):
fuck Donald Trump, fuck Israel,you know, god bless Gaza, save
the people of Palestine, thatjust triggered a lot of people.
All those statements togetherare going to make some people
really, really upset.
And your employer is withintheir rights.
If they're a private employer,they're within their rights to
say yo, that is a lot of heatthat you're putting out there.
We don't want anything to dowith that.
We're going to let you go.

Ilona (31:37):
That's legal and you can tell them that you could, if you
want to.

Ryan (31:42):
But would you take a case like that, if they got, if they
came and said hey, I got firedbecause of this, because if it's
a private, if you work forAlbertsons and you say those
statements and the manager'slike yo dude, like that's a lot
of heat, we don't want anythingto do with that, we're going to
let you go.
I can't do anything about that,wouldn't?

Ilona (31:59):
that be freedom of speech .

Ryan (32:01):
Not for Albertsons, not for a private employer.
That First Amendment protectsyour right to say I disagree
with my government, I disagreewith heck.
The First Amendment's supposedto protect your right to say,
hey, I hate America.
You can say that in thiscountry, but you're not free
from the consequences of that Ifyour employer sees that.
And it's not one of thesedistinct exceptions I talked

(32:22):
about and really those are theexception, they're not the
general rule.

Mila (32:25):
They can let you go and most employers have very
specific policies of, likesocial media, that you can't
post anything that you know isconsidered offensive or
triggering.
Yeah, so follow your conscience.

Ryan (32:38):
I mean, I understand where people are coming from and they
say well, that's not fair, theyshouldn't be able to control my
speech.
You're right, it's not fair.
And you know what.
In private, you can saywhatever the hell you want, but
if you put something out intothe public square because let's
be clear about what social mediais Social media is the public
square.
Every time I make one of myvideos, I'm standing up on a
soapbox and I'm shouting hear ye, hear ye.

(32:59):
And then I say something forall the world to see and I can't
control where it goes.
It can go anywhere andeverywhere and, as an adult, I
need to accept that there may beconsequences for that.
Ergo, I get a dozen people aday telling me to kill myself,
and that's just.

Mila (33:17):
That's just part of the deal hurt people, hurt people
hurt people hurt people.

Ryan (33:20):
But also, if you go up there and you say if you have
some very on-the-nose criticismsabout what's happening in
Ukraine, in Gaza, in WashingtonDC, anywhere, you need to expect
that there are going to bepeople who get very angry with
you about that.
And employers are generally intheir rights to say whoa dude,
we can't have you here if you'regoing to be putting that stuff

(33:40):
online, not saying it's fair,I'm saying it's legal can I tell
you guys about a case thatbroke my heart and like it
doesn't, let me go yeah, goahead always think about this
girl because I just feel awful.

Mila (33:51):
So this girl, she like, was in a relationship with one
of her co-workers and then shetried to end the relationship
and he got pissed and he triedto get her back.
Didn't work so he unanimously-Unilaterally.
Unanimously Is that when no oneknows who's doing it?

Ryan (34:10):
Oh, anonymously.

Mila (34:11):
Anonymously.

Ryan (34:12):
This is a fun game ESL game Seriously.

Mila (34:18):
So he anonymously submits a complaint to HR that she has
an OnlyFans channel and hesubmits an OnlyFans video that
he shot with her, where youcan't see him, but you can see
her.

Ryan (34:34):
And it's like from her account.
So he sent a video of herengaging in sexual activity.

Mila (34:41):
Yes, and he sends that to HR and it's anonymous and of
course they can't prove that hesent it.
But who else knew that?
She shot this video with himand he sends it to HR and they
fire her because it's againstcompany policy to have this kind
of content.
And she calls me.
She's obviously upset and shestarts.

(35:02):
You know I represent her.
We send out a demand.
She's like.
You know.
I found that there are allthese people that also work and
this is a huge company that alsoworked for this company and
were publicly open online.
She started sending me allthese pornographic videos and
like pornographic content,including people in HR in this
big company.
What is this company?

(35:22):
What?

Ryan (35:23):
is this company?

Mila (35:24):
I'm not going to tell you guys that the company is on air,
oh my God.
But so I send this to theattorney, literally like I'm
sending her porn.
I'm like, hey, look, here'syour HR person engaging in porn
and all this stuff.
And it turns out that theychanged their policy in 2021.
And all of those posts werebefore 2021.
But my girl's post was recent,after 2021.

(35:47):
So when those people wereposting their only fans videos
or you know, pornographiccontent, it was when it was not
against the policy.
But when my girl posted it, itwas after the policy was
initiated.
So, like my whole argument ofyou were treating her
differently because you know youdidn't fire these people but
you fired her, they were like,nope, we were not treating her

(36:07):
differently because you know sheviolated the policy.
The prior ones didn't.
Then I tried to argue that youknow that she was terminated in
retaliation for, you know, beingsexually harassed by this guy
because he wanted her back.
But then she showed me that thedecision makers behind her

(36:28):
termination had no idea aboutthe relationship between the two
.
So I couldn't prove causationthere.

Ryan (36:34):
Regardless of the relationship he still did.
I mean, that's revenge porn, itis.

Mila (36:39):
But technically, I tried every angle.
I got her an offer for $50,000.
She wouldn't take it.
Really she wouldn't take it.

Ryan (36:48):
I would have taken it.
It was tough, she was soheartbroken.

Mila (36:50):
She was like I want a minimum of $200,000.
And I was like listen, it's at$50,000.
We can file a lawsuit.
I don't know if I can get youmore, but it's going to get
dirty If I file a lawsuit.
All of this is going to be in apublic complaint.

Ryan (37:04):
Like your name is going to be on it.
I'm doing this.
I know it's a tough situation.

Mila (37:07):
It broke my heart because every time I talked to her she
was so hurt she would just likebawl.

Ryan (37:11):
She didn't want to file a lawsuit.

Mila (37:16):
She didn't want take a lean on the case because I felt
so awful about it.
But that case always stickswith me because it is revenge
porn.
In any other situation thatwould have been illegal to do
that.

Ryan (37:28):
There are certainly concerns I have about those nude
images of her being circulatedaround within the company, and
then the motivation behindsending it.
I mean, look, I don't know allthe facts of the case.

Ilona (37:37):
But if you sued him personally, what does a guy have
right?
He may be judgmental.
It Look.
I don't know all the facts ofthe case, but if you sued him
personally, what does a guy have, right?
He may be judgmental.

Mila (37:42):
It was an anonymous complaint, it was an anonymous
complaint saying this person hasthis nude pornographic content
up publicly and I feeluncomfortable.

Ryan (37:50):
Maybe I just run my business different because I'm
very hippy-dippy.
New age I think you've kind ofpicked that up.

Mila (37:56):
No.

Ilona (38:05):
If someone sent me that of one of my employees.

Ryan (38:06):
I would be furious at the person sending it to me.
I would say shut the fuck up, Idon't care.
My staff are some of the mostprofessional, honest, hard
working people and you know what?
If they want to film porn intheir spare time, I don't give a
shit.
They can do whatever they wantto do.

Ilona (38:18):
All I care about is what the results are here and the
thing also with the OnlyFanschannel, because I came across
that in one of my family lawcases is it's hard to obtain
information from them.
They're extremely private.
So even when you issue asubpoena to obtain a count and
any posts and anything else,they'll fight you and they're

(38:38):
not going to turn things over.
So I think, but for him theboyfriend giving it to them, it
is extremely unlikely thatothers in the company would have
access to that material or beable to identify her and match
the two together.

Mila (38:54):
Well, the issue was too.
We couldn't prove it was himthat submitted the complaint.
Like I told her, I'm like thiswas submitted in retaliation for
her turning down his sexualadvances, and she was like we
have no way of determining himfor coming on to her no, she was
scared.
Yeah, I mean you could try toget some circumstantial evidence
for coming on to him.

Ilona (39:10):
I thought they shot the video together.

Mila (39:12):
Yeah, it was well, so they already did, as I like to say
in my practice, the harassmentbegins when the consent ends.

Ryan (39:19):
You gave me props and now I'm going to dance with them.
I'm sorry, because I've hadthat a lot.
I've had people who had verypassionate, loving, wonderful
relationships and then therelationship falls apart.
One of the coworkers ormanagers just couldn't let go
and it's like and they alwaystry to raise the defense, they
always show us the time here'syour client flirting with the
manager and telling him how sexyhe is and how good and hot

(39:40):
their night before was.
I'm like, yeah, that was whenthere was consent.
After they broke up two monthslater and he's still coming on
to her after you said no thereis no consent.

Ilona (39:49):
No, she said no in a text message.
Or she says she said no.

Ryan (39:52):
She says.
She said no, see, what happensis in the text message.
The most typical I'm doing airquotes know that, I see is the
one word.
Answers like okay, okay, likethat kind of stuff.
Or maybe a quick LOL, uh, orjust silence, just not
responding to it.
The truth is, a lot of theclients I have, it's very rare
you find someone willing to lookat a more powerful person in

(40:17):
the relationship and tell themno straight up.
It takes a lot of guts to dothat.
It's really scary to do thatfor some people.

Ilona (40:24):
So you have to piece it together yeah, makes me think of
the emoji movie that myfive-year-old loves, you know,
and they're showing thehieroglyphics back in the
egyptian time.
I go now.
It's emojis, that's what emojissay.

Ryan (40:36):
It's so true, isn't it?

Ilona (40:37):
yeah well, emojis are universal all right, ryan have
audience Q&A and a listener hasthe following question.
I made a TikTok talking aboutmy ex and now he's threatening
to sue me for defamation.
Is that even real?

Ryan (40:51):
It could be.
What did you say?
Do we know what she said?
She?

Ilona (40:55):
didn't say no, she didn't say Okay.

Mila (40:58):
Well, it depends on if it's true.
Is that an opinion?

Ryan (41:01):
That's the thing.
I don't know If it's true it'snot defamation.
But if you get up there andjust start saying, oh, you know
my ex, he's a broke ass, nobodyloser piece of shit, Well,
that's your opinion.
So I don't know if that wouldreally be defamation.
But then if you start saying,oh and don't, you know, he
steals and he lies and he doesall these things, Well, now
we're looking at defamatorystatements because you're

(41:22):
publishing that to the wholeworld to see and your only hope
is that it's true, Because ifit's not true, it's defamation.
You know, if you have apersonal relationship, go sour.
Don't get on social media andstart screaming about it.
I know that it can feel likeyou're by yourself with your own
personal diary, but you're not.
When you hit that post button,it's going everywhere.

Ilona (41:43):
I've seen that in family law.
One party is upset that someoneelse mentioned something about
them after a court hearing andmakes false posts on social
media badmouthing the otherparent.
And then they want to sue fordefamation.
But unless the other person hasa lot of money to go after them
, then when you file adefamation lawsuit there are no

(42:05):
attorney's fees that arestatutory.
You may get punitive damagesand if someone's judgment proof,
then good luck collecting.
And second, there's noinsurance policy covering that.

Ryan (42:17):
I love that you bring this up, because I get my employee
clients come in all the time andthey want to sue for defamation
because of something a managersaid.
Like, hey, he said I had badwork ethic, I was lazy or that I
didn't meet my quota.
I totally met my quota.
He's lying, that's defamation,right.
And it's like, look, maybe itis, maybe it isn't, but it's
really most of the time,honestly, unless something

(42:37):
really unique happened, it'svery rarely worth it.
That may not be a popularopinion, but it's my opinion
that these defamation claims,especially in the employment
context, very rare that they'reworth pursuing.
And again, it's not defamationif it's just an opinion, it's
not defamation if it's true.
And even if it was defamation,we have to prove damages.

(42:57):
And, quite candidly, you'repaying my hourly fee for that
because I can't necessarilyrecover something all the time.

Mila (43:03):
So I almost always get in uh, whenever I settle out
employment cases where they'relike I want a non-disparagement
clause that no one in thecompany can ever say anything
negative about me good luck withthat I know, and I try to
explain that, like you can't,the company can't bind every
employee there.
Sometimes I'll get them toagree.
If there's like a couple ofpeople that they had like really

(43:23):
bad relationships with that inthe contract, they'll say the
company has advised theseindividuals not to speak badly
but, even that is going to bedifficult to enforce, just get a
neutral reference and move onand you just have to accept.

Ryan (43:36):
I mean, this is just general life advice.
You actually two pieces ofgeneral life advice, because you
said something really on thenose here.
When you get on social mediaand complain about how awful
someone in your life is, youlook bad.
The other person doesn't looklike the villain.
You look like a villain.
You look like you're whining.
People don't hear the otherside of the story For all they

(43:56):
know.
You're just a crazy personmaking things up.
You look like someone who can'tkeep your shit together.
So it's not a good look and Idon't recommend doing it.
But also, as far as like, oh, Iwant to control what other
people say about me, you can't.
You can't control what otherpeople are going to say or think
about you.

Ilona (44:11):
That's the beauty of the United States.
And the First Amendment rightto free speech.

Ryan (44:16):
I love that First Amendment and you know I think
I'm a good example here becauseI have a lot of reach my I was
just doing some work on it.
My Instagram alone reached 30million unique accounts over the
past month.
You really think that all 30million of those people liked me
?
You really think that all ofthem thought?
wow, what a smart, wonderfuladvocate who really cares about
justice and even if I disagreewith him, I bet he's coming from

(44:39):
a good place.
No, I get some of the mosthostile, unhinged attention.
I get people probably people inmy life, people I've gone to
school with probably say reallynasty, fucked up things about me
.

Ilona (44:48):
So what's the worst?
Give us top five worst thingsthat people said to you.

Ryan (44:53):
Oh well, I can't remember Honestly, there's so much and I
don't keep them when.
I see something like that.
I don't like.
Honestly, I just block them.
Honestly, I get off easy.
Being a woman on the internetis infinitely harder than
anything I'm going through.

Mila (45:05):
All my comments are inappropriate.
Yeah, no I always have todelete them because they're like
weird sexual things.

Ryan (45:11):
I mean, I do get a lot of mostly men who are trying to
have sex with me.
Really I don't know how ithappened.
A lot of people online, thinkI'm gay.
I mean, I'm not, but I don'treally care.
I'm in a relationship anyway.
But no, you know, the wholepoint I'm trying to say here is,

(45:38):
if you want to put your speechout online, if you want to build
a business and get the leadsonline, you have to accept the
fact that a lot of people aren'tgoing to like you and you have
to let go of the desire tocontrol their narrative about
you.
There's a lot of people whothink I'm some radical Marxist,
communist, anti-american loser.
I'm none of those things.
That person is completelymisunderstanding where I am

(45:58):
coming from, but it is not myplace, nor is it in my power to
change their perception.
Their perception is their ownand if they choose to have that,
I need to be at peace with itand let it go.

Mila (46:07):
There's this book by Mel Robbins.
It's called Let them.
Have you heard of it?

Ryan (46:10):
That's exactly what I was going to say is Let them, let
them.

Mila (46:13):
And that's all she talks about.
That whenever you face anythingin life that you cannot control
, like oh, my kids want to dothis and it's wrong, let them.
She's like, once you realizeyou cannot control other people,
and you just like let them dowhat they're going to do, what
they want, and it's true, so letthem.
And then you give up thatcontrol and she basically says

(46:34):
how you can get so much peace ofmind back.

Ryan (46:36):
And that's.
I'm glad you brought that up,because that's another big
mistake.
I see, especially with ourheightened sort of political
social temperature right now inthe US, you're going to get
people who see something thatyou say and what's funny is it's
not even what you say, it'swhat they hear, and sometimes
what they hear is totallydifferent than what you said and
they lash out and it can behurtful and you need to avoid

(47:04):
look, I'm not perfect, perfect.
I fall into this trap sometimes.
I try not to, but you need toavoid the temptation to jump
into the mud and try to defendyourself.
They saw something you said.
They didn't like it.
That's their prerogative.
You needed to move on.
And if you want to play thisgame where you're posting online
and making your speech heard,which I think is beautiful, I
love that I can have my beliefsout there for people to see and
engage with.
It's a privilege.
But there's a price of thatprivilege and the price is a lot
of people won't like me andwhat happens in the virtual

(47:27):
world does spill into the realworld.
I have had people treat medifferent in real life because
they didn't like my videos or myposts.
It's a little hurtful, but youknow, it is what it is.
And the people who matter, theydon't mind.
Yeah, and the people who minddon't matter.

Ilona (47:43):
Right.
It's kind of interesting can bein the same room with people.
I don't know what your viewsare, but you know you like the
other person, everything isgreat.
And then you get into thatargument, divisive argument, and
then the perception can changeand from going, you know, from
liking someone, some people I'venoticed, based on social media,
can turn against you just forsomething very like your opinion
, where before there was atotally different type of

(48:06):
relationship that was basedYou'll have people who love you
to death and they hear onelittle thing in one video and
suddenly I'm unfollowing.

Ryan (48:14):
You're a piece of shit, I know.
It's like I'm not sure what youheard.
I know what I said.
It didn't seem that crazy.
It's like I'm not sure what youheard.
I know what I said.
It didn't seem that crazy.
But clearly you're dealing withsomething in your life where,
when I said, oh gosh, what do Isay?
When I say, hey, working classpeople need a better deal,
Employers aren't holding uptheir end of the bargain.
Someone that that's what I saidSomeone might hear all small

(48:37):
business owners are crooks andcorrupt and I hate small
businesses.
Like that's what they heardit's not what I said.

Ilona (48:43):
Ultimately, you know, everybody is entitled to have
their opinion, different opinion.
You should be able to speak itfreely, post it wherever hell
you want and, whether you agreewith it or not, shouldn't be
hating on people for that.
Like you live in america, it'sthe land of freedom, of free
speech.
If it applies to you and youwant to be treated this way,

(49:05):
treat others the same way.

Ryan (49:06):
I think it's great.
And look, you can hate the idea.
It's dangerous to hate theperson.
You can hate the idea and wecan engage vigorously with the
idea and you can get upset, buttry not to hate the person.
And all this comes back to thewhole reason we're here.
If you are going to be onsocial media and I think a lot
of great lawyers should, because, damn it, people need us right

(49:26):
now it is a scary time for a lotof people and they're looking
for answers.
Now is a good time for lawyersto make their voices heard, but
you have to accept the price ofthat, and the price of that is
people are not everyone's goingto like you.

Mila (49:40):
What would your advice be?
If someone is seeking legaladvice online, what advice would
you give them?

Ryan (49:44):
I mean you could just Google lawyer in your area.
But the thing I would cautionpeople is a lot of firms spend a
lot of money on SEO to makesure they're on that first page
top results.
A lot of those are sponsoredresults.

Mila (49:55):
And those are big firms where you're not going to really
get yeah.

Ryan (49:58):
Look at the reviews.
Ask friends.
Honestly, the best lawyeryou're going to find is one that
your friend had a good resultwith, because your friends are
going to help you out.
Also, you know, if you findthem on social media, that's
great.
I will say don't hire justbased on social media videos
alone.
You might see my content andthink, wow, I like this Ryan guy
.
He's got a lot of fight in him,but I'm a workers' rights

(50:19):
lawyer.
You don't want me for yourdivorce, you know.
So I think really be discerningabout the lawyer.
Don't just pick the firstGoogle result.
Don't just pick who you like onsocial media the best.
Your case is too important totrust the very first thing that
pops up on Google.
So if you're looking for itonline, make sure you like the
lawyer.
Make sure they're in yourjurisdiction, they practice the
kind of law you like.
Check out their reviews andreally ask friends if they have

(50:42):
a referral for you.

Ilona (50:42):
I think that's the best way.
Ask Chad GPT about yourself tosee what it says about you.
No, what.
I've noticed recently is thatclients do that.
Clients check their attorneyson Chad GPT and see who is
stronger on this issue versusthat issue and compare attorneys
.
And at a situation where aclient was texting me oh I'm so
relieved, chad he said you're abetter lawyer this and that and

(51:06):
like thanks, chad, you be doing.

Mila (51:07):
She likes our whole overview.
She was like who's a betterlawyer?

Ryan (51:10):
and she put in like the problem with that is it's very
in input driven.
You know you can ask the samequestion different ways and get
different results.
And also, where is ChatGPTgetting it?
And remember, it's artificialintelligence, it's mimicking
things, it's taking bits andpieces online and stringing them
together.

Ilona (51:30):
Well, it includes reviews it looks at the reviews.

Ryan (51:32):
It will include reviews and a lot of information, so
it'll be interesting to see whatit says about you.
I put a lot of information outonline, so there's probably a
lot for chat GPT to work with.
But there could be anotherlawyer who's got 20 years more
experience than me and isfantastic, but just doesn't have
the online presence I do, sothat person probably wouldn't
get a fair shake.
But I will say I don't.

(51:52):
I don't chat GPT myself, Idon't Google myself.
Uh, especially when you get toa level where you're putting out
stuff a lot, there's going tobe some opinions about you that
you know they're there.
You don't have to engage withthem.

Ilona (52:06):
When did you cross that line where you're like, OK,
screw it, I don't care?

Ryan (52:10):
That's a really good question.
You know, it wasn't like beforethis line I'm a private person
who does this stuff on socialmedia and after this line line,
okay, this has kind of gottenout of hand and I have a book
deal and I'm on tv and all kindsof crazy shit is happening.
It was all kind of a slow burn.
Um, I will say maybe that firstdr phil appearance.
What happened in that first drphil appearance was I shared my

(52:33):
opinions about the strugglesworking class people are going
through, especially young people, and a lot of people really did
not like my opinion.
What I said was these youngpeople are not getting a fair
deal.
The economic conditions havechanged and we need to do some
serious reforms to help them out, because they're doing
everything we told them to doand they're not getting the
result they were promised.

(52:54):
And I'm not saying they'reentitled.
Some people have some ideas ofwhat they deserve and maybe it's
out of whack, but for the mostpart these people are not
getting a fair deal.
That's what I said.
What some people heard was weneed communism.
I hate America.
Kids should get millions ofdollars without working hard,
like again, they're bringingtheir own personal experiences
and baggages to that.
Unfortunately, that gotmultiplied by a million

(53:15):
something people.
So on one side, a lot of peoplereally liked me.
There were some YouTubers whosaid nice things about what I
said on Dr Phil.
There were a lot of people whosaid I deserve to be disbarred
and I should be in jail and blah, blah, blah, like.
And that was the biggest scale,first step where I was like
okay, like, this is what Isigned up for.
You know, I know I'm comingfrom a good place, I know I'm

(53:38):
not a bad person, but no matterwhat I say or how I say it,
there's going to be people who,uh, they're not going to like me
and that's going to have to beokay.
Also, that was the.
That was the appearance where Istopped drinking alcohol
because I saw how big and red myhead was and I thought never
again.

Ilona (53:52):
I didn't see that Dr Phil show, but when was that?

Ryan (54:01):
Oh, I want to say late 22.

Ilona (54:02):
I want to say fall.
I could be lying, I think itwas fall of 2022.

Ryan (54:04):
And what do they call you about?
That was about quiet quitting.
It was about you and I talkedabout it before the observation
from some employers that, hey,some of these new employees I
bring in, they seem apathetic,they've got attitude problems,
they don't work as hard, they'reasking me for more and more
money all the time and they juststarted here.
That's one side of thediscussion.
The other discussion is like Ihave two full-time jobs and I

(54:27):
can't fucking afford myapartment and I'm stressed and
I'm burnt out and I'm scared andI really empathize with those
people.
I I don't know why.
It's because of the personalexperiences I had growing up, my
own biases and baggages.
I bring, for whatever reason,the way I'm wired.
I really feel for those workingclass people who are scared and
they just don't have a lot ofoptions right now.

(54:47):
And I think that as a country,we need to take seriously how
we're going to support thesepeople, because it's really
dangerous to have an apathetic,hopeless working class.
We need to have hope in thiscountry or we're not going to
get very far.

Ilona (54:59):
How do you?
I mean, what's the solution?
Because, employers, you have abusiness so you can make profits
, so you can keep your employees.
If costs get out of hand, thenthere's going to be no business
to give jobs.

Ryan (55:13):
Oh, absolutely.
Look, I'm a small businessowner myself and I know what
it's like You'll have.
Your gross receipts are onething and you've got to take
care of people and everyone'sgot a problem.
Everyone has an emergency,everyone needs a raise.
I get that when you say what isthe solution here?
There are deep structural,systemic issues and there's no

(55:34):
one pill that's going to fix allthe problems in this country,
because we all know what theproblems are Housing is too
expensive, groceries, gas aregetting too expensive.
It seems that a lot of goodunion jobs are being shipped
overseas.
We're seeing a degradation oflabor rights and union power.
We're seeing just people incities that 20 years ago their

(55:54):
parents could afford a starterhome with a combined income they
can't even rent in.
So what is the solution?
I think it's incorrect to say,oh, the private sector is going
to handle this.
I think that's really unfair.
There's a lot of peopleopposite my political views who
think the private sector is theanswer to everything, and I
don't think that's fair at all,because when you say that, it
sounds really cool, but it'slike wait.
So you're saying that the momand pop restaurant who's making

(56:16):
barely any margin?
You're saying the answer is tojust have them pay more.
Well, that can't be it.

Ilona (56:21):
They pay less taxes.
They'll have more to pay more.

Ryan (56:27):
That is an interesting theory.
I don't think that just becausea company pays less tax, they
pay more.
I don't think that reallyhappens.
I think more frequently what wesee is when a company pays less
tax, they simply keep thoseprofits.

Ilona (56:42):
Or they hire more and expand and grow and add to the
economy.

Ryan (56:46):
If there's more demand, absolutely Because look, if it
worked, I'd be all for it.
And there was a time in my lifewhere I was Mr Cut Taxes for
the Corporations.
I really believed that in myearly 20s and then I started
noticing like well, wait aminute.
There's a lot of companies thatthey get all the tax cuts in
the world and all the bailoutsin the world, but the wages
don't go up.

(57:06):
They do the layoffs anyway.
They do the executive bonusesanyway.
Or, on a smaller scale, whatI've noticed is the employer
gets a big tax rebate.
They buy a brand new CadillacEscalade.
No one got a raise.
So brand new Cadillac Escalade,no one got a raise.
So again, relying entirely onthe private sector.
In my opinion, I think it'sunfair to small businesses.

(57:26):
It makes it harder for peopleto grow their businesses and
build good paying jobs.
I also don't think itnecessarily works.
So as lawyers, I think we needto put our thinking caps on and
find other solutions that work.
And if more people get onsocial media and put their ideas
out there, I think we canfigure it out together.
But we're going to have to worktogether.

Ilona (57:41):
Sounds like you want to run for an office.
Well, the only office I'm goingto run for right now is to my
office because I have a bunch ofimportant work to do, but did
you ever think about that?

Ryan (57:51):
I've been approached about that by some people and
organizations and it's certainlyon my list.
But I'm not in a hurry.
I have work I'm doing right nowthat I'm very committed to.
I care very deeply Because Iwas there.
I was there.
I know what it feels like tobust your ass and work so
goddamn hard and destroy my bodyfor $16 an hour in the

(58:13):
community I was born in.
Let me be clear San Diego is myhome.
I have an ownership stake inthis town and as a working class
person, I had every right toafford an apartment here and be
comfortable not rich, notballing have a roof over my head
and afford food, and I couldn'tget that.
And so when people come to meand say, Ryan, I'm struggling, I
believe them and I don'tbelieve it's their fault either.

(58:35):
I'm not going to blame them andtell them that they're lazy or
entitled, because I remember howhard I worked and how little
money I had at the end of theday, and so I give a shit.
I'm fired up.
Right now I direct that energyin court.
Maybe at some point I'll do itin the California assembly or
somewhere else you have to yeah.
Right now I'm doing it in court.
So if you're my opposingcounsel, just know I'm not in
this just for money or fame.

(58:55):
Like I'm legitimately pissedoff, I'm coming for you.

Ilona (58:58):
Well, it was a pleasure to meet you in person.
Thank you.
You know we're grateful to havesuch a famous TikTok lawyer
here with us.

Mila (59:08):
I feel like we didn't talk about enough.
We need a segment too.

Ryan (59:11):
I'd love to Do.
You know what I loved aboutthis.
I love that you guys push backand you give me cool ideas and
drill.
It's not just a oh.
Tell us about the social media.
I feel like we had some reallygood talks here.

Mila (59:22):
I would love to do that anytime.

Ryan (59:24):
From Russia with love.

Ilona (59:26):
Well, not Russia, former Soviet Union, different country.

Ryan (59:29):
Wow, no, this was great.
Thank you so much for having me, guys.
Thank you.

Mila (59:32):
You're very fun.
Catch Attorney Ryan on TikTokand YouTube for more no BS,
legal truth bombs.
And we'll see you next week foranother dose of grit, glamour
and real life law.
We'll even be joined by thedistrict attorney of San Diego
herself, Summer Stefan.
Don't miss it.

Ilona (59:52):
Don't forget to like and subscribe, and we'll see you
soon.