July 22, 2025 • 38 mins
What happens after our heroes return home?
In this episode of The Glamorous Grind, we sit down with Dr. Gerald P. Porter—veteran, senior USPS executive, and advocate for North County Veterans Stand Down. We uncover the often-invisible battles veterans face once they leave the military: PTSD, homelessness, unemployment, incarceration, and fractured families.
🎖️ From personal stories to systemic failures, we explore:
- Why so many veterans struggle with re-entry into civilian life
- The alarming rise of homeless women veterans
- Legal and mental health challenges that go unaddressed
- The heartbreaking connection between divorce, trauma, and identity loss
- Real solutions from real advocates changing lives
💥 Plus, our signature “Red Flag / Green Flag” segment takes on discrimination in housing, employment, and support systems for veterans.
This episode isn’t just about awareness—it’s about action.
👉 If you or someone you love is a veteran navigating post-military life, this episode is a must-watch.
🔔 Subscribe for more meaningful conversations at the intersection of justice, glam, and real life.
Want more glam during your grind?
New episodes every Tuesday. Make sure you are subscribed on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
🎙️ Hosts: Ilona Antonyan & Mila Arutunian
📲 Follow us on IG: @glamorousgrindpodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mila (00:00):
Coming out of the military they feel strong.
They don't think they needmental health help, but a lot of
them have seen a lot of thingsand do have PTSD.
Ilona (00:08):
Veterans, after serving our country, are having problems
getting housing or can't paytheir bills.
Aren't they supposed to receivebenefits?
You know, veterans' disabilitythat should help them pay for
some of those life necessities.
Dr. Porter (00:23):
That's a great question.
Ilona (00:25):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and justice wears a badge ofhonor.
Mila (00:30):
Today we're looking at what happens to our veterans
after they serve.
Ilona (00:35):
Many of our nation's heroes come home only to face
invisible battles with trauma,homelessness or even
incarceration and a divorce.
Dr. Porter (00:45):
Commitment to the military, not to the family.
I think that's one of thebiggest ones.
They want to stay with themilitary.
That's their first love, nottheir family.
And next, you know, you findthem divorced.
Mila (00:56):
Our guest today has seen those battles up close, both as
a veteran and as a champion forthose transitioning from combat
zones into their new civilianlives.
Dr. Porter (01:08):
You had a steady paycheck.
Now you don't have that anymore.
But somehow you can find drugs,you can buy alcohol and you'll
find yourself in trouble.
Ilona (01:15):
Please welcome Dr Gerald P Porter, Senior Executive at
USPS.
He's a proud member of Veteransof Foreign Wars and an advocate
with the North County VeteransStand Down Association.
Mila (01:36):
Porter, thank you so much for joining us today.
It's just such a privilege tohave you.
I mean, we have such a hugeveterans community here in San
Diego that I thought this wouldbe a perfect opportunity to have
you come on and just kind oftalk about some of the issues
that veterans face.
Dr. Porter (01:53):
Oh, thank you.
Ilona (01:54):
And you know, being in San Diego with a large military
community as a divorce attorney,I see a lot of them going
through a divorce, havingcustody issues and facing other
challenges, including mentalhealth challenges that you
helped them with.
How did you get started withthe?
Dr. Porter (02:08):
military.
First of all, my father was oneof the first pilots.
He crashed his plane back inthe early 40s.
He was at Army Air Corps.
Then my uncles and my sisterjoined Desert Shield Desert
Storm, so I wanted to follow inthose steps.
Ilona (02:27):
You served for over 21 years.
Dr. Porter (02:29):
Yes, 21 years.
Ilona (02:30):
And you said you went to Kuwait.
What other places have you been, oh?
Dr. Porter (02:33):
wow, I've been to Guam, africa, philippines,
thailand, korea.
Wow, a small island calledHaneara.
Wow, black sand, beautifulplace.
Ilona (02:43):
Black sand, black sand beautiful place, black sand,
black sand, like real black sand.
Dr. Porter (02:47):
Real black sand what color is the water.
The water Blue, green,turquoise.
Ilona (02:55):
Yeah, what do you do now?
Dr. Porter (02:57):
Right now I'm a senior executive with the United
States Postal Service.
I handle medium and largecompanies anywhere up to $50
million.
Ilona (03:06):
And where do you volunteer?
Dr. Porter (03:08):
North County Standout, great, great spot.
Master Sergeant Matt Fostersponsored it about maybe 10
years ago.
He saw so many people thatneeded assistance on the street
of San Diego and North County,oceanside, and he said you know
what, let's get together.
So one of the founders of GreenOaks Ranch said hey, you know
what?
I have a 134-acre communityhelping drug and
(03:32):
alcohol-addicted individuals.
How about you bring veteranshere and we help them with
transitioning into some type ofprogram?
Well, that program started withjust helping a couple of
veterans to now helping over1,000 veterans.
We have doctors that come in tohelp, veterinarians that come
out.
We have pet care.
So if an individual has pets,some reason, we find out a lot
(03:52):
of people homeless have pets.
Well, they need care, just likethe human counterpart.
We have people that need legalservices.
That's one of the biggestthings that I found with
homeless veterans loitering,camping, urinating, those fines.
Last year a judge came and heremoved that.
He forgave them for that.
People don't want to do thosethings but they have no other
(04:14):
choice.
It's not like you're on thestreet of PB, you know Pacific
Beach and you have a bathroomright there, it's locked.
Mila (04:22):
It's locked at night, you know.
Dr. Porter (04:24):
So that's what we do , and that's one of the things I
love.
We try our best to try to findthem a place.
Even if we can't find a place,at least we can try to point
them in the right directionSometimes Father Joe's temporary
community service or even ahotel for a few days, and that's
what we usually do.
Ilona (04:41):
And why do veterans, after serving our country, aside
from mental health issues, arehaving problems getting housing
or can't pay their bills.
Aren't they supposed to receivebenefits?
You know veterans disability,other income that should help
them pay for some of those lifenecessities.
Dr. Porter (05:03):
That's a great question and I'm going to go
back now Now.
From birth I've always had amom, dad, and I grew up they
told me what to do, when to do,what time to come in.
Then I enlisted in the military.
They told me when to get up,when to eat, when to go to the
bathroom.
So I was always in this bubble.
We call it institutionalized.
(05:24):
It's almost even equivalent tobeing in prison.
Someone is always telling youwhat to do.
So you didn't have anyresponsibilities like paying
bills or be responsible formaking sure this is done.
So when you transition out,it's hard.
No one really tells you how topay a bill.
No one really tells you howyou're responsible for this.
(05:45):
You're responsible to get up tofind a job.
You're responsible tounderstand that this coworker
wants you to do this job.
And then here you're trying tofigure out how do you navigate
that?
Some people get out in SanDiego, don't understand when
they were in Arkansas.
The rent is not $1,500 a monthfor a house, it's a lot more and
(06:05):
they end up finding themselvessleeping with a friend or a
person's house and then, nextthing you know, they're at home,
into a car, into a camper andall of a sudden.
Now they're in front of thepolice.
Ilona (06:16):
What about drugs?
Is that part of it a lot?
Dr. Porter (06:19):
I think what happens is it's not drugs, it's the
environment.
They're in you.
You had a steady paycheck.
Now you don't have that anymore, but somehow you can find drugs
, you can find alcohol andyou'll find yourself in trouble
say I always say this that, likein russia, veterans are treated
like royalty.
Ilona (06:36):
Yes, they were teachers yeah, even when they already
retired and they're not in themilitary.
Like my, grandfather had tonsof medals he used to wear and
they were highly honored.
Dr. Porter (06:46):
Yeah, we're still honored.
We're still honored.
It's just the transitionalperiod.
If we knew about programs, sowe had people to help us with
programs.
A 38 year old man who's beenliving in military housing has
been always been taken care ofby the by the military.
If you show him or her how tonavigate life, that individual
(07:06):
may not find themselves divorcedin your court or in your
hearing.
You may find that individual beable to navigate life.
I got out in Guam Okay, so Ididn't know anything about here.
I applied to over a hundreddifferent jobs, I took pre-tests
and still, when I got here, Iwas homeless for nine days Nine
(07:27):
days I'm trying to figure thisout and I was going through a
divorce.
So I had three kids living in ahouse that I could barely pay
the mortgage because I had savedup some money but didn't have a
job.
So I had to take whatever cameto me.
It was a little security jobthat I had.
Even whatever that came to me,it was a little security job
that I had.
Even though I had a master'sdegree, I was getting finished,
about to start on my doctorate,but I couldn't do anything
(07:50):
because I didn't know how tointeract with individuals.
I didn't know how to do aninterview.
No one taught me how tointerview.
I got in front of a sergeant ora commander and I responded yes
, sir, yes, ma'am.
Ilona (08:02):
Why don't they teach that in military before they let you
out?
Dr. Porter (08:06):
They try to do that with a class.
That's a transitional assistantprogram, but you're doing your
job also.
So they say, oh, you know what,take off for a couple of days
and here's a pamphlet.
They don't do any like dry runsof interviewing.
They say, oh, here's what youshould do, these are the
programs here's of interviewing.
They say, oh, here's what youshould do, these are the
(08:27):
programs.
There's GI jobs and so forth.
That's why if you see mostmilitary, most veterans, you'll
probably see here in California,especially in San Diego,
government workers.
Because that camaraderie or lawenforcement camaraderie, you
don't see too many veterans outthere saying you know, I'm going
to be an attorney, I'm going tobe doing something else,
because we don't know how to fit, and I think that's what you're
(08:48):
saying.
How, why don't we teach peoplehow to fit in society?
And I think we're trying to getbetter?
But it's really hard,especially when you're in a
remote spot.
Ilona (08:57):
It seems like maybe teaching people about a
transition from military worldinto real world when you now
have responsibilities likepaying rent, utilities and other
things you haven't done before.
Maybe it's too late at thatpoint.
That should be taught in school, at elementary school level.
Children should understand howmoney works, what saving money
(09:17):
is, what investing money is andhow the world really works.
It should be part of ourgeneral education, I think.
Mila (09:22):
I agree that those should be taught in school, but I think
that a lot of it is practicalright.
You have to kind of learnthrough living and unfortunately
, because they areinstitutionalized people in the
military, they come out and evenif they had learned those
skills in school, I think thetransition would be difficult,
(09:43):
especially considering I meanpeople coming out of the
military and serving.
They have a huge level ofmental health issues and I think
a big problem that we haven'treally touched on yet is the
fact that they either don't havesufficient support to push that
(10:04):
treatment, because a lot ofpeople come out of the military
and let's be real, like mencoming out of the military they
feel strong, they don't thinkthey need mental health help,
but a lot of them have seen alot of things and do have PTSD
or depression or anxiety andalso just not knowing how to
handle that transition.
You know adds on to that I meanwhat I've seen and you know I
(10:28):
know Porter because he helps mea lot whenever I have clients
who come to me and this happensoften in the employment field,
where veterans come back andthey try to get a normal job and
unfortunately they've never hada normal job.
They've always beeninstitutionalized and they try
(10:50):
to work this eight to five andlike.
They have attitudes sometimes orthey are triggered by something
or another thing and maybe it'sbecause of a disability that
they have, like PTSD, but theemployer doesn't know that they
have PTSD and probably theveterans themselves don't know
that they have PTSD.
(11:11):
They think that's just theirattitude, they're just
aggressive, and so the employerdoesn't know and the veteran
doesn't tell them.
So the employer has no duty toaccommodate as they would any
other disability in another case, right?
So the employer is like youhave an attitude, doesn't work,
not a good fit, you're fired.
They come to me I'm like oh,this is because of your PTSD,
(11:33):
but the employer didn't know,they had no reason to know, they
had nothing that they shouldhave done differently.
So I send them to Porter andPorter usually helps them
through one of theseorganizations that you're part
of, which are greatorganizations, because
technically they don't have anywrongful termination case.
But they need help, and theyneed help first and foremost
(11:54):
with their mental health issues,because until they can overcome
that and understand why theirbrain is reacting the way it's
reacting, they have no chance ofsucceeding in any vocation
thank you for bringing that upbecause I was in court this week
picking up a family member whosuffered from TBI.
Dr. Porter (12:14):
traumatic brain injury is a very close family
member who didn't know she hadtraumatic.
She knew she had a traumaticbrain injury but she.
We thought she could cope withsociety but she couldn't.
She ran away from place.
She thought she, she, shebelieves that people are around
her.
She done two tours of combat inAfghanistan.
(12:34):
They killed several of herfriends and she's always had
that and so she had a lot goingon with her and we did what we
could to help her.
Ba did what they could to helpher going on with her and we did
what we could to help her.
Va did what they could to helpher.
But sometimes, even with theseprograms that we have, the
individual may still require,you know, intake or need some
actually 24-hour care, and whoknew a 32 year old woman would
(12:59):
need that type of care?
But you know, eventually I'mglad the law enforcement
intervened.
They found out her daughter wasmalnourished.
Ilona (13:07):
Oh, my God.
Dr. Porter (13:08):
Malnourished, had been homeless for over three to
six months, even though she hadsupport here.
She had, you know, she had alot of support here in San Diego
but she refused it because shealways thought something was
going on.
Because she always thoughtsomething was going on and I'm
glad the court system saw whatwas going on and said, hey, you
(13:29):
know, she needs some help.
So they turned her over to meand now I'm going to have the
daughter, her daughter, and youknow society is going to help us
.
Ilona (13:42):
And it's not a problem with that.
So you're going to be fosterparents.
Help us, it's not a problemwith that, so you're going to be
foster parents.
Dr. Porter (13:46):
I'm going to temporarily foster her and then
after that she'll be turned overto her grandmother.
Her grandmother's going to takecare of her.
But she definitely needed help.
She needed some intake support.
But, like you said, you said wehave all these programs, but
it's not just about the programs, it's about the individual.
How do we get the individual in?
And that's the thing abouttrying to persuade.
(14:08):
You know, I've done it before.
I've gotten her in to seek help,but unfortunately you can only
seek for so long.
You know they get her out.
Okay, she's good to go whenshe's not.
I had a young woman.
She had been sexually assaulted.
This was a few years ago.
I was helping her with one ofthe veteran stand downs here and
(14:30):
we sat there and talked.
She was about 28, 29 years old.
She was one of the translatorsin Iraq, so I knew who she was
and I was saying why are youhomeless?
She said I can't stay becauseyou you know men see me as a
object.
I'm like men don't see you that.
But the military whichinstitutionalized her, saying
(14:51):
men are superior to you.
And she felt that you know, mysergeant, my gunny sergeant,
they're superior to me.
So I have to listen to thesemen.
Well, sometimes these men arenot right, okay.
So in order to help her itwasn't me I actually pointed her
in the right direction to otherwomen veterans, and these
veterans were able to find her ashelter, get an apartment, even
(15:14):
sponsor her mother and hersister from Iraq, and I'm so
happy that she's doing better.
But for some reason, when I seehomeless veterans veterans I try
to figure out what was thebackground, how, how things
happen.
But some reason I'm findingmore women are being homeless,
homeless veterans.
We're talking about 22, 23 yearold women.
(15:36):
They're on the streets.
How can we?
Mila (15:39):
do this.
I can't even believe there's nolike real transitional program.
Like I feel like legally andmaybe this is something that
needs to be pitched to thelegislature there needs to be
some type of transitional periodwhere veterans are taking care
of you know, taught vocationalskills of some sort, so that
(15:59):
they can know what they're doing.
If they're institutionalized inthis you know system of being
in the military, they shouldcome out and have some type of
institution that helps themtransition out.
Dr. Porter (16:11):
That would be.
That would be such a blessingif they could do that.
Just sit these service membersin a room, you know, maybe for a
month, go over some mock, mock,mock situations or scenarios
and let them know that you knowwhat.
It's not like that.
You don't have to.
You know, stand to attentionwhen your boss comes in the room
.
You don't have to figure outthat.
(16:33):
You know what that person isgoing to attack you.
It's not like that.
Mila (16:37):
You know if you're in the military.
Dr. Porter (16:38):
You're taught camaraderie.
You know I have to rely on you.
You're going to save my life.
I was on a ship.
I was camaraderie.
You know I have to rely on you.
You're going to save my life.
I was on a ship, I was on asubmarine.
I have to rely on thatindividual.
If that individual was notthere, we have an issue.
Okay, transitioning in insociety, it's not the same way
you can relax your guard.
That's why sometimes people arecombative and be like, oh, this
(16:59):
guy is a crazy vet.
No, it's what triggers them.
You know, we don't.
We're not taught you know what.
We should just calm down, sitdown and talk.
We're not taught that.
We're taught.
This person is going to saveyour life.
This person you will listen toand you will be able to see the
next day sounds like.
Ilona (17:18):
It's like as if somebody's coming from another
planet to earth and they have tolearn how to live here from
another planet to earth and theyhave to learn how to live here.
Mila (17:27):
This reminds me of a podcast I listen to, um, which
talks about just the differencesbetween kind of innately, our
human nature.
We love the fight or flight.
That's what we're made for,like back when we were cavemen.
That's why we have anxiety.
The anxiety is good for usbecause it tells us when there's
a threat and we run.
And I think all of those innatecharacteristics are great when
(17:49):
you're in the military.
But then it talked about how,like in modern society, all of
those characteristics and traitsthat we had, you know, innately
and that were great to us ascavemen, are now not only
useless but they'recounterintuitive.
Our anxiety that we thinksomeone's going to attack us or
whatever causes depression.
Ilona (18:10):
Don't worry, In a couple of million years it'll pass,
We'll be back.
Mila (18:15):
No, but it is like I feel like in the military you're
taught to kind of have thosecaveman instincts and then you
come out and those instincts areno longer useful to you.
In fact, you can't.
You can't like explode at asupervisor because you have
anxiety and all of these things.
Oh wow.
Dr. Porter (18:32):
I remember when I first got out, you know, and
they gave me a gun oh mygoodness, oh, that was just
great, you know, but I was asecurity guard.
But, and they gave me a gun ohmy goodness, oh, that was just
great, but I was a securityguard.
But I'm thinking I'm top cop.
I didn't jump off this and Ifound out, you know what this
gun is actually detrimental tomy health.
I wanted to be around that gunall the time and I didn't know
(18:54):
that.
But I was like, oh, you know,I'm safe when I have a gun next
to me.
No, I'm not, I'm actually safewhen I don't have the gun next
to me.
And then when I finally said,you know what, I need to do
something else.
So I ended up, you know,getting an orange apron and I
was the best Home Depot employeethere was, and you know what.
I felt so much at ease.
I was around people whoactually talked to me.
(19:14):
No one yelled at me.
I was like this is how societyreally works.
And I'm like this is great.
I'm like people are real peopleout here.
You know, no one's looking overyour shoulder.
No one's going to say you knowwhat if you don't do this.
You know the thing's going tofall down on you.
It was great, but it took abouta year after I got out of the
(19:34):
military to understand that.
You know this is a calm life.
You still have to be aggressiveat times, but you don't have to
figure that you're fight orflight all the time.
Mila (19:46):
Well, what really stood out to me in that story that you
just said is how self-aware youwere when you realized that I
really need to be around thisgun and what should I do
differently, because this is notgood for me.
I think that is what separatesyou from a lot of people who
wouldn't understand that aboutthemselves and would continue
doing what brought them dopamine, which was being around the gun
(20:09):
, because that's what theirbrain thinks is good for them.
So that training, like because,again, not everyone is
self-aware, right, andespecially again with the mental
health issues, with there'spride that goes into it.
You know, part of being in themilitary is you're taught to
have pride.
You cannot be an active serviceperson and like not be
(20:34):
confident and proud.
You just can't.
So then they come out and theystill have that pride.
They don't want to be like ohI'm, I'm triggered by this, or
like I really feel like I needto be around this gun.
No one wants to say that aboutthemselves.
So to the extent they don't,that's where things go downhill
and that's when they can't holda job.
They end up homeless, all ofthese things okay.
So now we're going to playwhat's called red flag, green
(20:56):
flag, where we are going to giveyou specific scenarios and you
tell us if it's a red flag or agreen flag and why.
You ready?
Dr. Porter (21:04):
I am ready.
Ilona (21:06):
Veteran is denied a lease because of his misdemeanor
conviction years ago.
Dr. Porter (21:12):
That's a red flag.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Just get the opportunity.
Give them the opportunity.
Ilona (21:20):
Mila, can they get sued for that?
I think they can right.
Mila (21:22):
For employment purposes.
Being a veteran is a protectedclass in California, so under
the Fair Employment and HousingAct.
So with that said, employerhesitant to hire a veteran.
Citing adjustment concerns Redflag or green flag.
Dr. Porter (21:38):
It depends on the job.
Citing adjustment concerns redflag or green flag.
It depends on the job Becauseif you're going to be going into
a burning house, you want tohave somebody that's stable.
That's true.
If I want to go rescue a child,I want to make sure that person
behind me is going to be therefor me if that building falls or
something goes on.
Mila (21:55):
So I will say that morally it is absolutely a green flag,
but legally it is definitely ared flag, because employers are
not allowed to discriminateagainst employees due to veteran
status.
Ilona (22:08):
Policy-wise, though, I agree with him and his green
flag.
Mila (22:11):
I agree.
Ilona (22:11):
Not just morally but for safety of the society.
Mila (22:14):
Well, I think, unless the employer has a reason to believe
that the veteran is incapableof performing the job for one
reason or another, they can'tdiscriminate on them just
because they're a veteran.
Dr. Porter (22:28):
I would go with both red green.
That's a tough one, because youcould always ask for evaluation
of a veteran.
You can still give the veterana position and just be evaluated
.
How about that?
Mila (22:38):
Yeah, that's legal.
If the position is one thatrequires, you know, some
specific skill set, they cancertainly require an evaluation.
Okay for sure.
Ilona (22:47):
But it has to be neutral and it has to be applied to
everyone equally, not justveterans that refuses to go to
va for help because they thinkit's more stressful than just
doing it on their own.
Ah red flag Swallow your pride.
Dr. Porter (23:02):
Yeah, Asking for help.
I didn't know how to ask forhelp.
I thought if I was asking forhelp it would actually hurt me.
Ilona (23:09):
How.
Dr. Porter (23:10):
Due to the fact that it could go on my record.
Oh, if it go on my record and Iapply for a position,
especially with, say, forinstance, with a secret
clearance, they're going to seethat.
Ilona (23:18):
Isn't it confidential?
I mean, medical records.
Dr. Porter (23:20):
It is not confidential.
I think it's confidential.
Mila (23:22):
I want to say one thing Asking for help is not weak.
Not asking for help when youneed help is weak.
I think a lot of people in thissociety fail to fail to
recognize that a lot of mentalhealth issues are far greater
than us.
These are not things that wecan handle on our own.
(23:42):
So to the person who thinksit's weak to ask for help, think
again, because you're beingweak by not asking for it.
Ilona (23:49):
I think a lot of people believe they're resilient, based
on their past experiences and Ithink they can handle
themselves because of their pastexperiences, and it's not until
the point where it's unbearable.
Then they kind of give in andtry something if it's worth it
for them.
Dr. Porter (24:05):
Yeah, you just see when people get help when
they're in trouble.
Mila (24:09):
A local court partners with a nonprofit to host legal
aid days at shelters.
Green flag.
Dr. Porter (24:17):
We do that at North County Standout.
Mila (24:20):
We need more of those.
Dr. Porter (24:21):
Yeah, if somebody comes by, she is outstanding,
Comes by and makes sure shetakes care of all the
misdemeanor and anything major.
She points everyone to theright direction.
Mila (24:31):
We need more judges on that.
Dr. Porter (24:33):
Yes, I was so happy to have a judge.
That was the first time we hada judge there at the facility.
Ilona (24:38):
A red flag or a green flag.
A woman coming out of militaryis having a hard time making
decisions on her own without amale partner.
Dr. Porter (24:51):
That's a red flag.
She should be able to doeverything on her own with
veterans, organizations thatcould help her, and even family
members or friends or even otherservice members.
I feel confident that a womancan do the same thing as a man.
Ilona (25:06):
Could you tell us the difference of unique needs that
women have once they transitionout of military versus man?
Dr. Porter (25:13):
What I noticed is women actually can transition
easier in society than men.
Actually, they would be able tosit down and cope and actually
figure out that hey, you knowwhat?
I don't have to fight or flight, I can actually sit down
well-dressed and do my job.
Rather a man maybe a man, or agunny sergeant, mass sergeant,
(25:36):
commander.
They're in charge of 200, 300people and now they come out,
they're the peon, they're thesmallest person on the planet
and they can't.
They can't deal with that.
But I do see a lot more womentransitioning out better than
men.
Ilona (25:51):
So it's a loss of identity, depending on what
their position was for men, butfor women you said they're
adjusting better.
However, you also mentionedthere are more women who are
homeless, so how do those two gotogether?
Dr. Porter (26:02):
Okay how that usually goes together single
moms.
They sit in there, they get out, they're in a relationship and
all of a sudden the male, themale figure in the family, say
you know what?
We had all this steady income.
Now we don't.
So why should I be here hereand the father, the dad or the
husband is gone.
And next you know I'm lookinglike, wow, you're a single mom.
(26:24):
I had one woman she was actuallyone of my neighbors.
Uh, she was studying to be adoctor.
I remember her husband is anurse and four kids.
And all of a sudden she waslike you know what?
I need to stop this militarything?
I'm done.
And her husband's like no,you're not, I need to finish.
You know nursing, what I needto stop this military thing?
I'm done.
And her husband's like no,you're not, I need to finish.
You know nursing school?
I need to do this.
I ended up seeing her at thestand down, homeless, hi, I'm
(26:47):
like, hold on, did you have fourkids?
She said all my kids are gone,they're with their dad.
He just kicked me out.
He's like I don't need you.
I'm like how can a mom bekicked out of a house with four
kids?
She, she said well, you did it.
And I was like wow, and sheended up getting incarcerated.
Mila (27:04):
Wow, yeah.
So how often does divorcehappen in military situations?
Dr. Porter (27:10):
I would say, just like first responders, about 50
to maybe 70%.
Ilona (27:16):
Wow.
Dr. Porter (27:17):
Adultery.
I would say 80 to 100%.
People can say no, there's noadultery.
Let me tell you it.
Wow, adultery.
I would say 80 100 people.
People can say no, there's noadultery.
Let me tell you it's adultery.
You put a person out there inthe middle ocean for six months,
something's gonna happen.
You put a person out in themiddle of the desert for six
months, something's gonna happen.
People say it doesn't.
I've seen it all.
There's so many people getdivorced because of commitment
to the military, not to thefamily.
(27:38):
I think that's one of thebiggest one.
They want to stay with themilitary.
That's their first love, nottheir family.
And next, you know, you findthem divorced.
Mila (27:46):
I think just from my understanding of how the
military works.
A lot of times people come backdifferent if they're deployed,
they just come back differentpeople depends what they saw,
probably where they served.
Dr. Porter (27:58):
I have a couple of cases because I was counseling I
was a counselor in the servicestaff An individual came back
and his baby kept crying and hetook the baby's life because the
baby wouldn't stop crying andhe just had something.
About two years ago, a person Iknew very, very close we served
(28:19):
together helping other veteransand he took his own life and he
had five kids.
He came back and he justcouldn't take it.
Ilona (28:26):
The counseling couldn't help, so depression.
Dr. Porter (28:29):
It was depression, depression.
He couldn't make the next rankso he was going to be forced out
, forced retirement, and youknow, having five kids and
trying to cope with life is notthat easy.
We always talk about the after,the fact that you know you
could have, should have, wouldhave, and at that time I didn't
know.
I just know that.
(28:50):
You know he was up for thepromotion, things was going to
happen, things were lookinggreat and all of a sudden
something triggered.
Something triggered.
He was having some issues withthe family, with the spouse, and
then at work, and he justwalked in his office and just
took his life.
And that happens.
And we always talk about afterwhat could we have done
different?
But we try to do thingsdifferent.
(29:12):
I was with a young lady overseasin Guam.
She tried to kill herself threetimes.
We even did a suicide watch.
I'm in the barracks with allthese women and I'm watching
this one sailor saying, hey, I'mnot going to let you kill
yourself, I'm going to doeverything I can.
So she would not kill herselfThree times.
(29:33):
And she wasn't even.
I don't think she was even 22years old.
Ilona (29:36):
Psychological trauma could be aggravated, and things
can get worse when they're inmilitary, because now they're
really facing different types ofpressures and different
personalities, and so thingscould get out of control, not
because of potentially beingoverseas in a war and seeing
things, but other triggers.
Dr. Porter (29:53):
Right, there's no difference from a person being a
firefighter, a first responder.
You could have an underlyingcondition and then now it's
triggered.
We really don't know, becausewe all have a breaking point and
we just don't know what thatbreaking point is.
Mila (30:08):
I just want to emphasize that the identity crisis that
happens when you have to switchcareers is just immense.
It is just immense and I see itall the time in the employment
context when people have toleave not jobs but careers that
they've built for many years andhave to figure out who they are
(30:32):
outside of those careers and itis just debilitating.
And I've had people who werenot in the military and didn't
see combat who have tried tocommit suicide because they
didn't understand who they were.
And it's easy for us, I think,to sit here from, you know, like
the third party perspective andthink about, like what they
(30:53):
could have done differently, oryou know that there was a chance
to have a better life for themOf course there was, but when
they're in that mindset, theydon't understand outside of it.
You know there's this I waslistening to this thing where,
like, you look at, you knowclose up, and you see brown and
you're like, oh my gosh, theworld is brown.
(31:15):
And then you realize it's, it'sa tree and it's just the bark of
the tree.
And then you take a step backand it's like you see the leaves
and then you take another stepback.
You're like, oh, there's awhole world.
But when you're like in thatplace where you only see the
bark, everything looks black.
I don't think they they can canconceptualize a way out without
medical assistance most of thetime with veterans.
Dr. Porter (31:38):
Other veterans can help veterans and other veterans
in that field can help veterans.
Sometimes you want to getpeople help but they don't know
how to get help.
But then you get another person.
So you know, I was a Marinejust like you.
Hey, you know what MOS whereyou're at?
Oh, you know what?
I remember doing something likethat.
Now it triggers, oh you knowwhat.
What?
This guy is just like me, thisgirl is just like me.
Ilona (32:01):
Now I think I can get help there's a coach or a mentor
that may be helpful to themafter they transition right do
they get paired up with anyoneno, well, they do have after the
fact.
Dr. Porter (32:15):
Sometimes after they get incarcerated, after they
get get intake, they get thehelp.
But unfortunately, usually whenyou get help is after something
traumatic happens.
Ilona (32:24):
Now, do you have any positive success stories of
people that sought help andsought your advocacy and turned
their lives around?
Dr. Porter (32:33):
Oh, I do have quite a few success stories.
North County Veterans StandDown that we have once a year,
usually a Greek Onks Ranch overin Vista, Master Chief Matt
Foster and his family.
Last year we made sure weplaced every woman, every child,
in a facility.
A lot of these people turnedaround and found jobs within
(32:55):
that month and then out of theirtemporary housing and into the
facility.
That's one of the stories, andthere's so many of those stories
that I can talk about Peopletransitioning.
All they needed was that handup and once we gave the hand up
it was outstanding.
Mila (33:13):
Sorry, will you connect me with whoever runs that
organization, because maybe Ican do trainings on like how to
apply to jobs.
I'm actually doing one rightnow for domestic violence
victims, but I feel like I coulduse the same presentation and
veterans could benefit from itjust as well.
How to apply for jobs, what yourrights are when you are in the
workplace, how to requestaccommodations if you have PTSD,
(33:36):
all of those things.
So maybe I could set that up.
If you want to connect me withyour person, I would love to do
that.
Dr. Porter (33:42):
Oh yeah, he would love to hear from you and I
would love you to come to ourorganization, eskidio, and just
talk, because we're taught toget past it, get past that pain,
get past what's happening inyour life.
So you carry that on in societylike you know what.
I must be a failure, so this iswhere I'm at now, but you're
not.
They're not failures and that'swhy we have to sit there and
(34:03):
talk to them.
And unfortunately, you may talkto them at the wrong time, when
they're incarcerated, whenthey're about to get a divorce,
when we could intervene, likebecause there's so many veterans
out here that would give give ahand.
Like me, I do it for free Iwould help with transitioning a
service member in the family.
I have no problem with that.
So even with not having abudget, I'm sure there's more
(34:23):
enough people out there give ahand to those service members.
Mila (34:27):
So we have a listener question here for you.
This is from one of ourlisteners.
They said my brother is a vetwho's been struggling with
housing and minor legal issues.
He says no one gets it.
What can I do as a familymember when he is too proud to
accept help?
Dr. Porter (34:46):
I like that question .
That happens.
It's not getting him help, it'sgetting your brother and you
help, okay.
When he sees it, he says mybrother has an issue.
No, no, we have an issuebecause it's a family.
And what he can do is say,brother, let's go together and
(35:08):
find help.
Now your brother is not saying,oh, I need help, no, we need
help, brother, I need this.
And then find him treatment.
Go to treatment together.
I need this.
And then find him treatment, goto treatment together.
One of the things that peoplefind out is when you're in a
society with other people,like-minded like yourself, you
tend to relax and throw that cardown.
(35:29):
What he's saying is my brotherneeds help, my brother needs
help.
No, no, no, we need help.
And when he tells his brotherthis, now they go over the
treatment and he sits with hisbrother getting treatment.
Mila (35:41):
And how beautiful is that.
That like the support, thesupport that someone must feel
immediately when you say weversus you, because it's I'm
sure it's isolating, coming backand seeing the same people
maybe you saw before, but you'redifferent.
It's isolating, I'm sure, it'slonely, and even that small
(36:02):
transition of he versus we I'msure makes a huge difference.
That's great advice.
Dr. Porter (36:08):
We can't help everybody, but we can try.
And as long as you give aneffort, that's all you can do,
because what's going to happen?
You're going to exhaust yourresources.
You're going to exhaustyourself Now.
You're going to exhaust your,your resource.
You're going to exhaustyourself.
Now you are going to be seekinghelp.
Ok, I wish I knew about thisbefore I got into divorce,
because I need help, but Ididn't know that.
Mila (36:28):
Thank you so much for coming.
This is so informative and Ithink it will be helpful for a
lot of people who don't knowwhere to turn, coming out or
having family members come outof the military.
So, thank you, we reallyappreciate it.
Ilona (36:40):
Thank you, it was very.
I learned a lot today that Ididn't know.
I didn't actually think thisepisode could be as interesting
as it ended up being becausethere was so much I didn't know
about how it works in themilitary, how people that are in
the military really rely onothers, and that that mentality
is different in the real world.
I never thought of it like thatand that was very interesting
perspective.
I think for me as a lawyer,when we deal with people who
(37:03):
come from military, who areclients, to understand that, to
kind of feel, to treat themsomewhat different because of
understanding where they'recoming from, and their
expectations.
Mila (37:13):
With more empathy.
Dr. Porter (37:14):
Definitely.
Thank you all for letting mecome on and express how much I
really care about my veteransand about people here just in
San Diego about thetransitioning back into civilian
life.
Mila (37:29):
Thank you.
Ilona (37:30):
Thank you for helping them.
Mila (37:31):
Dr Porter, thank you so much for your leadership, your
service and your voice forveterans who need more than just
thank you.
They need justice.
Ilona (37:42):
And to our audience.
If this episode opened youreyes, then please share it.
Mila (37:46):
This is your reminder that healing, like justice, is a
team effort.
Ilona (37:52):
Her voice is so therapeutic.
It's law, it's life, it's aglamorous grind.
We'll see you next week.
Coming out of the military they feel strong.
They don't think they needmental health help, but a lot of
them have seen a lot of thingsand do have PTSD.
Ilona (00:08):
Veterans, after serving our country, are having problems
getting housing or can't paytheir bills.
Aren't they supposed to receivebenefits?
You know, veterans' disabilitythat should help them pay for
some of those life necessities.
Dr. Porter (00:23):
That's a great question.
Ilona (00:25):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and justice wears a badge ofhonor.
Mila (00:30):
Today we're looking at what happens to our veterans
after they serve.
Ilona (00:35):
Many of our nation's heroes come home only to face
invisible battles with trauma,homelessness or even
incarceration and a divorce.
Dr. Porter (00:45):
Commitment to the military, not to the family.
I think that's one of thebiggest ones.
They want to stay with themilitary.
That's their first love, nottheir family.
And next, you know, you findthem divorced.
Mila (00:56):
Our guest today has seen those battles up close, both as
a veteran and as a champion forthose transitioning from combat
zones into their new civilianlives.
Dr. Porter (01:08):
You had a steady paycheck.
Now you don't have that anymore.
But somehow you can find drugs,you can buy alcohol and you'll
find yourself in trouble.
Ilona (01:15):
Please welcome Dr Gerald P Porter, Senior Executive at
USPS.
He's a proud member of Veteransof Foreign Wars and an advocate
with the North County VeteransStand Down Association.
Mila (01:36):
Porter, thank you so much for joining us today.
It's just such a privilege tohave you.
I mean, we have such a hugeveterans community here in San
Diego that I thought this wouldbe a perfect opportunity to have
you come on and just kind oftalk about some of the issues
that veterans face.
Dr. Porter (01:53):
Oh, thank you.
Ilona (01:54):
And you know, being in San Diego with a large military
community as a divorce attorney,I see a lot of them going
through a divorce, havingcustody issues and facing other
challenges, including mentalhealth challenges that you
helped them with.
How did you get started withthe?
Dr. Porter (02:08):
military.
First of all, my father was oneof the first pilots.
He crashed his plane back inthe early 40s.
He was at Army Air Corps.
Then my uncles and my sisterjoined Desert Shield Desert
Storm, so I wanted to follow inthose steps.
Ilona (02:27):
You served for over 21 years.
Dr. Porter (02:29):
Yes, 21 years.
Ilona (02:30):
And you said you went to Kuwait.
What other places have you been, oh?
Dr. Porter (02:33):
wow, I've been to Guam, africa, philippines,
thailand, korea.
Wow, a small island calledHaneara.
Wow, black sand, beautifulplace.
Ilona (02:43):
Black sand, black sand beautiful place, black sand,
black sand, like real black sand.
Dr. Porter (02:47):
Real black sand what color is the water.
The water Blue, green,turquoise.
Ilona (02:55):
Yeah, what do you do now?
Dr. Porter (02:57):
Right now I'm a senior executive with the United
States Postal Service.
I handle medium and largecompanies anywhere up to $50
million.
Ilona (03:06):
And where do you volunteer?
Dr. Porter (03:08):
North County Standout, great, great spot.
Master Sergeant Matt Fostersponsored it about maybe 10
years ago.
He saw so many people thatneeded assistance on the street
of San Diego and North County,oceanside, and he said you know
what, let's get together.
So one of the founders of GreenOaks Ranch said hey, you know
what?
I have a 134-acre communityhelping drug and
(03:32):
alcohol-addicted individuals.
How about you bring veteranshere and we help them with
transitioning into some type ofprogram?
Well, that program started withjust helping a couple of
veterans to now helping over1,000 veterans.
We have doctors that come in tohelp, veterinarians that come
out.
We have pet care.
So if an individual has pets,some reason, we find out a lot
(03:52):
of people homeless have pets.
Well, they need care, just likethe human counterpart.
We have people that need legalservices.
That's one of the biggestthings that I found with
homeless veterans loitering,camping, urinating, those fines.
Last year a judge came and heremoved that.
He forgave them for that.
People don't want to do thosethings but they have no other
(04:14):
choice.
It's not like you're on thestreet of PB, you know Pacific
Beach and you have a bathroomright there, it's locked.
Mila (04:22):
It's locked at night, you know.
Dr. Porter (04:24):
So that's what we do , and that's one of the things I
love.
We try our best to try to findthem a place.
Even if we can't find a place,at least we can try to point
them in the right directionSometimes Father Joe's temporary
community service or even ahotel for a few days, and that's
what we usually do.
Ilona (04:41):
And why do veterans, after serving our country, aside
from mental health issues, arehaving problems getting housing
or can't pay their bills.
Aren't they supposed to receivebenefits?
You know veterans disability,other income that should help
them pay for some of those lifenecessities.
Dr. Porter (05:03):
That's a great question and I'm going to go
back now Now.
From birth I've always had amom, dad, and I grew up they
told me what to do, when to do,what time to come in.
Then I enlisted in the military.
They told me when to get up,when to eat, when to go to the
bathroom.
So I was always in this bubble.
We call it institutionalized.
(05:24):
It's almost even equivalent tobeing in prison.
Someone is always telling youwhat to do.
So you didn't have anyresponsibilities like paying
bills or be responsible formaking sure this is done.
So when you transition out,it's hard.
No one really tells you how topay a bill.
No one really tells you howyou're responsible for this.
(05:45):
You're responsible to get up tofind a job.
You're responsible tounderstand that this coworker
wants you to do this job.
And then here you're trying tofigure out how do you navigate
that?
Some people get out in SanDiego, don't understand when
they were in Arkansas.
The rent is not $1,500 a monthfor a house, it's a lot more and
(06:05):
they end up finding themselvessleeping with a friend or a
person's house and then, nextthing you know, they're at home,
into a car, into a camper andall of a sudden.
Now they're in front of thepolice.
Ilona (06:16):
What about drugs?
Is that part of it a lot?
Dr. Porter (06:19):
I think what happens is it's not drugs, it's the
environment.
They're in you.
You had a steady paycheck.
Now you don't have that anymore, but somehow you can find drugs
, you can find alcohol andyou'll find yourself in trouble
say I always say this that, likein russia, veterans are treated
like royalty.
Ilona (06:36):
Yes, they were teachers yeah, even when they already
retired and they're not in themilitary.
Like my, grandfather had tonsof medals he used to wear and
they were highly honored.
Dr. Porter (06:46):
Yeah, we're still honored.
We're still honored.
It's just the transitionalperiod.
If we knew about programs, sowe had people to help us with
programs.
A 38 year old man who's beenliving in military housing has
been always been taken care ofby the by the military.
If you show him or her how tonavigate life, that individual
(07:06):
may not find themselves divorcedin your court or in your
hearing.
You may find that individual beable to navigate life.
I got out in Guam Okay, so Ididn't know anything about here.
I applied to over a hundreddifferent jobs, I took pre-tests
and still, when I got here, Iwas homeless for nine days Nine
(07:27):
days I'm trying to figure thisout and I was going through a
divorce.
So I had three kids living in ahouse that I could barely pay
the mortgage because I had savedup some money but didn't have a
job.
So I had to take whatever cameto me.
It was a little security jobthat I had.
Even whatever that came to me,it was a little security job
that I had.
Even though I had a master'sdegree, I was getting finished,
about to start on my doctorate,but I couldn't do anything
(07:50):
because I didn't know how tointeract with individuals.
I didn't know how to do aninterview.
No one taught me how tointerview.
I got in front of a sergeant ora commander and I responded yes
, sir, yes, ma'am.
Ilona (08:02):
Why don't they teach that in military before they let you
out?
Dr. Porter (08:06):
They try to do that with a class.
That's a transitional assistantprogram, but you're doing your
job also.
So they say, oh, you know what,take off for a couple of days
and here's a pamphlet.
They don't do any like dry runsof interviewing.
They say, oh, here's what youshould do, these are the
programs here's of interviewing.
They say, oh, here's what youshould do, these are the
(08:27):
programs.
There's GI jobs and so forth.
That's why if you see mostmilitary, most veterans, you'll
probably see here in California,especially in San Diego,
government workers.
Because that camaraderie or lawenforcement camaraderie, you
don't see too many veterans outthere saying you know, I'm going
to be an attorney, I'm going tobe doing something else,
because we don't know how to fit, and I think that's what you're
(08:48):
saying.
How, why don't we teach peoplehow to fit in society?
And I think we're trying to getbetter?
But it's really hard,especially when you're in a
remote spot.
Ilona (08:57):
It seems like maybe teaching people about a
transition from military worldinto real world when you now
have responsibilities likepaying rent, utilities and other
things you haven't done before.
Maybe it's too late at thatpoint.
That should be taught in school, at elementary school level.
Children should understand howmoney works, what saving money
(09:17):
is, what investing money is andhow the world really works.
It should be part of ourgeneral education, I think.
Mila (09:22):
I agree that those should be taught in school, but I think
that a lot of it is practicalright.
You have to kind of learnthrough living and unfortunately
, because they areinstitutionalized people in the
military, they come out and evenif they had learned those
skills in school, I think thetransition would be difficult,
(09:43):
especially considering I meanpeople coming out of the
military and serving.
They have a huge level ofmental health issues and I think
a big problem that we haven'treally touched on yet is the
fact that they either don't havesufficient support to push that
(10:04):
treatment, because a lot ofpeople come out of the military
and let's be real, like mencoming out of the military they
feel strong, they don't thinkthey need mental health help,
but a lot of them have seen alot of things and do have PTSD
or depression or anxiety andalso just not knowing how to
handle that transition.
You know adds on to that I meanwhat I've seen and you know I
(10:28):
know Porter because he helps mea lot whenever I have clients
who come to me and this happensoften in the employment field,
where veterans come back andthey try to get a normal job and
unfortunately they've never hada normal job.
They've always beeninstitutionalized and they try
(10:50):
to work this eight to five andlike.
They have attitudes sometimes orthey are triggered by something
or another thing and maybe it'sbecause of a disability that
they have, like PTSD, but theemployer doesn't know that they
have PTSD and probably theveterans themselves don't know
that they have PTSD.
(11:11):
They think that's just theirattitude, they're just
aggressive, and so the employerdoesn't know and the veteran
doesn't tell them.
So the employer has no duty toaccommodate as they would any
other disability in another case, right?
So the employer is like youhave an attitude, doesn't work,
not a good fit, you're fired.
They come to me I'm like oh,this is because of your PTSD,
(11:33):
but the employer didn't know,they had no reason to know, they
had nothing that they shouldhave done differently.
So I send them to Porter andPorter usually helps them
through one of theseorganizations that you're part
of, which are greatorganizations, because
technically they don't have anywrongful termination case.
But they need help, and theyneed help first and foremost
(11:54):
with their mental health issues,because until they can overcome
that and understand why theirbrain is reacting the way it's
reacting, they have no chance ofsucceeding in any vocation
thank you for bringing that upbecause I was in court this week
picking up a family member whosuffered from TBI.
Dr. Porter (12:14):
traumatic brain injury is a very close family
member who didn't know she hadtraumatic.
She knew she had a traumaticbrain injury but she.
We thought she could cope withsociety but she couldn't.
She ran away from place.
She thought she, she, shebelieves that people are around
her.
She done two tours of combat inAfghanistan.
(12:34):
They killed several of herfriends and she's always had
that and so she had a lot goingon with her and we did what we
could to help her.
Ba did what they could to helpher going on with her and we did
what we could to help her.
Va did what they could to helpher.
But sometimes, even with theseprograms that we have, the
individual may still require,you know, intake or need some
actually 24-hour care, and whoknew a 32 year old woman would
(12:59):
need that type of care?
But you know, eventually I'mglad the law enforcement
intervened.
They found out her daughter wasmalnourished.
Ilona (13:07):
Oh, my God.
Dr. Porter (13:08):
Malnourished, had been homeless for over three to
six months, even though she hadsupport here.
She had, you know, she had alot of support here in San Diego
but she refused it because shealways thought something was
going on.
Because she always thoughtsomething was going on and I'm
glad the court system saw whatwas going on and said, hey, you
(13:29):
know, she needs some help.
So they turned her over to meand now I'm going to have the
daughter, her daughter, and youknow society is going to help us
.
Ilona (13:42):
And it's not a problem with that.
So you're going to be fosterparents.
Help us, it's not a problemwith that, so you're going to be
foster parents.
Dr. Porter (13:46):
I'm going to temporarily foster her and then
after that she'll be turned overto her grandmother.
Her grandmother's going to takecare of her.
But she definitely needed help.
She needed some intake support.
But, like you said, you said wehave all these programs, but
it's not just about the programs, it's about the individual.
How do we get the individual in?
And that's the thing abouttrying to persuade.
(14:08):
You know, I've done it before.
I've gotten her in to seek help,but unfortunately you can only
seek for so long.
You know they get her out.
Okay, she's good to go whenshe's not.
I had a young woman.
She had been sexually assaulted.
This was a few years ago.
I was helping her with one ofthe veteran stand downs here and
(14:30):
we sat there and talked.
She was about 28, 29 years old.
She was one of the translatorsin Iraq, so I knew who she was
and I was saying why are youhomeless?
She said I can't stay becauseyou you know men see me as a
object.
I'm like men don't see you that.
But the military whichinstitutionalized her, saying
(14:51):
men are superior to you.
And she felt that you know, mysergeant, my gunny sergeant,
they're superior to me.
So I have to listen to thesemen.
Well, sometimes these men arenot right, okay.
So in order to help her itwasn't me I actually pointed her
in the right direction to otherwomen veterans, and these
veterans were able to find her ashelter, get an apartment, even
(15:14):
sponsor her mother and hersister from Iraq, and I'm so
happy that she's doing better.
But for some reason, when I seehomeless veterans veterans I try
to figure out what was thebackground, how, how things
happen.
But some reason I'm findingmore women are being homeless,
homeless veterans.
We're talking about 22, 23 yearold women.
(15:36):
They're on the streets.
How can we?
Mila (15:39):
do this.
I can't even believe there's nolike real transitional program.
Like I feel like legally andmaybe this is something that
needs to be pitched to thelegislature there needs to be
some type of transitional periodwhere veterans are taking care
of you know, taught vocationalskills of some sort, so that
(15:59):
they can know what they're doing.
If they're institutionalized inthis you know system of being
in the military, they shouldcome out and have some type of
institution that helps themtransition out.
Dr. Porter (16:11):
That would be.
That would be such a blessingif they could do that.
Just sit these service membersin a room, you know, maybe for a
month, go over some mock, mock,mock situations or scenarios
and let them know that you knowwhat.
It's not like that.
You don't have to.
You know, stand to attentionwhen your boss comes in the room
.
You don't have to figure outthat.
(16:33):
You know what that person isgoing to attack you.
It's not like that.
Mila (16:37):
You know if you're in the military.
Dr. Porter (16:38):
You're taught camaraderie.
You know I have to rely on you.
You're going to save my life.
I was on a ship.
I was camaraderie.
You know I have to rely on you.
You're going to save my life.
I was on a ship, I was on asubmarine.
I have to rely on thatindividual.
If that individual was notthere, we have an issue.
Okay, transitioning in insociety, it's not the same way
you can relax your guard.
That's why sometimes people arecombative and be like, oh, this
(16:59):
guy is a crazy vet.
No, it's what triggers them.
You know, we don't.
We're not taught you know what.
We should just calm down, sitdown and talk.
We're not taught that.
We're taught.
This person is going to saveyour life.
This person you will listen toand you will be able to see the
next day sounds like.
Ilona (17:18):
It's like as if somebody's coming from another
planet to earth and they have tolearn how to live here from
another planet to earth and theyhave to learn how to live here.
Mila (17:27):
This reminds me of a podcast I listen to, um, which
talks about just the differencesbetween kind of innately, our
human nature.
We love the fight or flight.
That's what we're made for,like back when we were cavemen.
That's why we have anxiety.
The anxiety is good for usbecause it tells us when there's
a threat and we run.
And I think all of those innatecharacteristics are great when
(17:49):
you're in the military.
But then it talked about how,like in modern society, all of
those characteristics and traitsthat we had, you know, innately
and that were great to us ascavemen, are now not only
useless but they'recounterintuitive.
Our anxiety that we thinksomeone's going to attack us or
whatever causes depression.
Ilona (18:10):
Don't worry, In a couple of million years it'll pass,
We'll be back.
Mila (18:15):
No, but it is like I feel like in the military you're
taught to kind of have thosecaveman instincts and then you
come out and those instincts areno longer useful to you.
In fact, you can't.
You can't like explode at asupervisor because you have
anxiety and all of these things.
Oh wow.
Dr. Porter (18:32):
I remember when I first got out, you know, and
they gave me a gun oh mygoodness, oh, that was just
great, you know, but I was asecurity guard.
But, and they gave me a gun ohmy goodness, oh, that was just
great, but I was a securityguard.
But I'm thinking I'm top cop.
I didn't jump off this and Ifound out, you know what this
gun is actually detrimental tomy health.
I wanted to be around that gunall the time and I didn't know
(18:54):
that.
But I was like, oh, you know,I'm safe when I have a gun next
to me.
No, I'm not, I'm actually safewhen I don't have the gun next
to me.
And then when I finally said,you know what, I need to do
something else.
So I ended up, you know,getting an orange apron and I
was the best Home Depot employeethere was, and you know what.
I felt so much at ease.
I was around people whoactually talked to me.
(19:14):
No one yelled at me.
I was like this is how societyreally works.
And I'm like this is great.
I'm like people are real peopleout here.
You know, no one's looking overyour shoulder.
No one's going to say you knowwhat if you don't do this.
You know the thing's going tofall down on you.
It was great, but it took abouta year after I got out of the
(19:34):
military to understand that.
You know this is a calm life.
You still have to be aggressiveat times, but you don't have to
figure that you're fight orflight all the time.
Mila (19:46):
Well, what really stood out to me in that story that you
just said is how self-aware youwere when you realized that I
really need to be around thisgun and what should I do
differently, because this is notgood for me.
I think that is what separatesyou from a lot of people who
wouldn't understand that aboutthemselves and would continue
doing what brought them dopamine, which was being around the gun
(20:09):
, because that's what theirbrain thinks is good for them.
So that training, like because,again, not everyone is
self-aware, right, andespecially again with the mental
health issues, with there'spride that goes into it.
You know, part of being in themilitary is you're taught to
have pride.
You cannot be an active serviceperson and like not be
(20:34):
confident and proud.
You just can't.
So then they come out and theystill have that pride.
They don't want to be like ohI'm, I'm triggered by this, or
like I really feel like I needto be around this gun.
No one wants to say that aboutthemselves.
So to the extent they don't,that's where things go downhill
and that's when they can't holda job.
They end up homeless, all ofthese things okay.
So now we're going to playwhat's called red flag, green
(20:56):
flag, where we are going to giveyou specific scenarios and you
tell us if it's a red flag or agreen flag and why.
You ready?
Dr. Porter (21:04):
I am ready.
Ilona (21:06):
Veteran is denied a lease because of his misdemeanor
conviction years ago.
Dr. Porter (21:12):
That's a red flag.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Just get the opportunity.
Give them the opportunity.
Ilona (21:20):
Mila, can they get sued for that?
I think they can right.
Mila (21:22):
For employment purposes.
Being a veteran is a protectedclass in California, so under
the Fair Employment and HousingAct.
So with that said, employerhesitant to hire a veteran.
Citing adjustment concerns Redflag or green flag.
Dr. Porter (21:38):
It depends on the job.
Citing adjustment concerns redflag or green flag.
It depends on the job Becauseif you're going to be going into
a burning house, you want tohave somebody that's stable.
That's true.
If I want to go rescue a child,I want to make sure that person
behind me is going to be therefor me if that building falls or
something goes on.
Mila (21:55):
So I will say that morally it is absolutely a green flag,
but legally it is definitely ared flag, because employers are
not allowed to discriminateagainst employees due to veteran
status.
Ilona (22:08):
Policy-wise, though, I agree with him and his green
flag.
Mila (22:11):
I agree.
Ilona (22:11):
Not just morally but for safety of the society.
Mila (22:14):
Well, I think, unless the employer has a reason to believe
that the veteran is incapableof performing the job for one
reason or another, they can'tdiscriminate on them just
because they're a veteran.
Dr. Porter (22:28):
I would go with both red green.
That's a tough one, because youcould always ask for evaluation
of a veteran.
You can still give the veterana position and just be evaluated
.
How about that?
Mila (22:38):
Yeah, that's legal.
If the position is one thatrequires, you know, some
specific skill set, they cancertainly require an evaluation.
Okay for sure.
Ilona (22:47):
But it has to be neutral and it has to be applied to
everyone equally, not justveterans that refuses to go to
va for help because they thinkit's more stressful than just
doing it on their own.
Ah red flag Swallow your pride.
Dr. Porter (23:02):
Yeah, Asking for help.
I didn't know how to ask forhelp.
I thought if I was asking forhelp it would actually hurt me.
Ilona (23:09):
How.
Dr. Porter (23:10):
Due to the fact that it could go on my record.
Oh, if it go on my record and Iapply for a position,
especially with, say, forinstance, with a secret
clearance, they're going to seethat.
Ilona (23:18):
Isn't it confidential?
I mean, medical records.
Dr. Porter (23:20):
It is not confidential.
I think it's confidential.
Mila (23:22):
I want to say one thing Asking for help is not weak.
Not asking for help when youneed help is weak.
I think a lot of people in thissociety fail to fail to
recognize that a lot of mentalhealth issues are far greater
than us.
These are not things that wecan handle on our own.
(23:42):
So to the person who thinksit's weak to ask for help, think
again, because you're beingweak by not asking for it.
Ilona (23:49):
I think a lot of people believe they're resilient, based
on their past experiences and Ithink they can handle
themselves because of their pastexperiences, and it's not until
the point where it's unbearable.
Then they kind of give in andtry something if it's worth it
for them.
Dr. Porter (24:05):
Yeah, you just see when people get help when
they're in trouble.
Mila (24:09):
A local court partners with a nonprofit to host legal
aid days at shelters.
Green flag.
Dr. Porter (24:17):
We do that at North County Standout.
Mila (24:20):
We need more of those.
Dr. Porter (24:21):
Yeah, if somebody comes by, she is outstanding,
Comes by and makes sure shetakes care of all the
misdemeanor and anything major.
She points everyone to theright direction.
Mila (24:31):
We need more judges on that.
Dr. Porter (24:33):
Yes, I was so happy to have a judge.
That was the first time we hada judge there at the facility.
Ilona (24:38):
A red flag or a green flag.
A woman coming out of militaryis having a hard time making
decisions on her own without amale partner.
Dr. Porter (24:51):
That's a red flag.
She should be able to doeverything on her own with
veterans, organizations thatcould help her, and even family
members or friends or even otherservice members.
I feel confident that a womancan do the same thing as a man.
Ilona (25:06):
Could you tell us the difference of unique needs that
women have once they transitionout of military versus man?
Dr. Porter (25:13):
What I noticed is women actually can transition
easier in society than men.
Actually, they would be able tosit down and cope and actually
figure out that hey, you knowwhat?
I don't have to fight or flight, I can actually sit down
well-dressed and do my job.
Rather a man maybe a man, or agunny sergeant, mass sergeant,
(25:36):
commander.
They're in charge of 200, 300people and now they come out,
they're the peon, they're thesmallest person on the planet
and they can't.
They can't deal with that.
But I do see a lot more womentransitioning out better than
men.
Ilona (25:51):
So it's a loss of identity, depending on what
their position was for men, butfor women you said they're
adjusting better.
However, you also mentionedthere are more women who are
homeless, so how do those two gotogether?
Dr. Porter (26:02):
Okay how that usually goes together single
moms.
They sit in there, they get out, they're in a relationship and
all of a sudden the male, themale figure in the family, say
you know what?
We had all this steady income.
Now we don't.
So why should I be here hereand the father, the dad or the
husband is gone.
And next you know I'm lookinglike, wow, you're a single mom.
(26:24):
I had one woman she was actuallyone of my neighbors.
Uh, she was studying to be adoctor.
I remember her husband is anurse and four kids.
And all of a sudden she waslike you know what?
I need to stop this militarything?
I'm done.
And her husband's like no,you're not, I need to finish.
You know nursing, what I needto stop this military thing?
I'm done.
And her husband's like no,you're not, I need to finish.
You know nursing school?
I need to do this.
I ended up seeing her at thestand down, homeless, hi, I'm
(26:47):
like, hold on, did you have fourkids?
She said all my kids are gone,they're with their dad.
He just kicked me out.
He's like I don't need you.
I'm like how can a mom bekicked out of a house with four
kids?
She, she said well, you did it.
And I was like wow, and sheended up getting incarcerated.
Mila (27:04):
Wow, yeah.
So how often does divorcehappen in military situations?
Dr. Porter (27:10):
I would say, just like first responders, about 50
to maybe 70%.
Ilona (27:16):
Wow.
Dr. Porter (27:17):
Adultery.
I would say 80 to 100%.
People can say no, there's noadultery.
Let me tell you it.
Wow, adultery.
I would say 80 100 people.
People can say no, there's noadultery.
Let me tell you it's adultery.
You put a person out there inthe middle ocean for six months,
something's gonna happen.
You put a person out in themiddle of the desert for six
months, something's gonna happen.
People say it doesn't.
I've seen it all.
There's so many people getdivorced because of commitment
to the military, not to thefamily.
(27:38):
I think that's one of thebiggest one.
They want to stay with themilitary.
That's their first love, nottheir family.
And next, you know, you findthem divorced.
Mila (27:46):
I think just from my understanding of how the
military works.
A lot of times people come backdifferent if they're deployed,
they just come back differentpeople depends what they saw,
probably where they served.
Dr. Porter (27:58):
I have a couple of cases because I was counseling I
was a counselor in the servicestaff An individual came back
and his baby kept crying and hetook the baby's life because the
baby wouldn't stop crying andhe just had something.
About two years ago, a person Iknew very, very close we served
(28:19):
together helping other veteransand he took his own life and he
had five kids.
He came back and he justcouldn't take it.
Ilona (28:26):
The counseling couldn't help, so depression.
Dr. Porter (28:29):
It was depression, depression.
He couldn't make the next rankso he was going to be forced out
, forced retirement, and youknow, having five kids and
trying to cope with life is notthat easy.
We always talk about the after,the fact that you know you
could have, should have, wouldhave, and at that time I didn't
know.
I just know that.
(28:50):
You know he was up for thepromotion, things was going to
happen, things were lookinggreat and all of a sudden
something triggered.
Something triggered.
He was having some issues withthe family, with the spouse, and
then at work, and he justwalked in his office and just
took his life.
And that happens.
And we always talk about afterwhat could we have done
different?
But we try to do thingsdifferent.
(29:12):
I was with a young lady overseasin Guam.
She tried to kill herself threetimes.
We even did a suicide watch.
I'm in the barracks with allthese women and I'm watching
this one sailor saying, hey, I'mnot going to let you kill
yourself, I'm going to doeverything I can.
So she would not kill herselfThree times.
(29:33):
And she wasn't even.
I don't think she was even 22years old.
Ilona (29:36):
Psychological trauma could be aggravated, and things
can get worse when they're inmilitary, because now they're
really facing different types ofpressures and different
personalities, and so thingscould get out of control, not
because of potentially beingoverseas in a war and seeing
things, but other triggers.
Dr. Porter (29:53):
Right, there's no difference from a person being a
firefighter, a first responder.
You could have an underlyingcondition and then now it's
triggered.
We really don't know, becausewe all have a breaking point and
we just don't know what thatbreaking point is.
Mila (30:08):
I just want to emphasize that the identity crisis that
happens when you have to switchcareers is just immense.
It is just immense and I see itall the time in the employment
context when people have toleave not jobs but careers that
they've built for many years andhave to figure out who they are
(30:32):
outside of those careers and itis just debilitating.
And I've had people who werenot in the military and didn't
see combat who have tried tocommit suicide because they
didn't understand who they were.
And it's easy for us, I think,to sit here from, you know, like
the third party perspective andthink about, like what they
(30:53):
could have done differently, oryou know that there was a chance
to have a better life for themOf course there was, but when
they're in that mindset, theydon't understand outside of it.
You know there's this I waslistening to this thing where,
like, you look at, you knowclose up, and you see brown and
you're like, oh my gosh, theworld is brown.
(31:15):
And then you realize it's, it'sa tree and it's just the bark of
the tree.
And then you take a step backand it's like you see the leaves
and then you take another stepback.
You're like, oh, there's awhole world.
But when you're like in thatplace where you only see the
bark, everything looks black.
I don't think they they can canconceptualize a way out without
medical assistance most of thetime with veterans.
Dr. Porter (31:38):
Other veterans can help veterans and other veterans
in that field can help veterans.
Sometimes you want to getpeople help but they don't know
how to get help.
But then you get another person.
So you know, I was a Marinejust like you.
Hey, you know what MOS whereyou're at?
Oh, you know what?
I remember doing something likethat.
Now it triggers, oh you knowwhat.
What?
This guy is just like me, thisgirl is just like me.
Ilona (32:01):
Now I think I can get help there's a coach or a mentor
that may be helpful to themafter they transition right do
they get paired up with anyoneno, well, they do have after the
fact.
Dr. Porter (32:15):
Sometimes after they get incarcerated, after they
get get intake, they get thehelp.
But unfortunately, usually whenyou get help is after something
traumatic happens.
Ilona (32:24):
Now, do you have any positive success stories of
people that sought help andsought your advocacy and turned
their lives around?
Dr. Porter (32:33):
Oh, I do have quite a few success stories.
North County Veterans StandDown that we have once a year,
usually a Greek Onks Ranch overin Vista, Master Chief Matt
Foster and his family.
Last year we made sure weplaced every woman, every child,
in a facility.
A lot of these people turnedaround and found jobs within
(32:55):
that month and then out of theirtemporary housing and into the
facility.
That's one of the stories, andthere's so many of those stories
that I can talk about Peopletransitioning.
All they needed was that handup and once we gave the hand up
it was outstanding.
Mila (33:13):
Sorry, will you connect me with whoever runs that
organization, because maybe Ican do trainings on like how to
apply to jobs.
I'm actually doing one rightnow for domestic violence
victims, but I feel like I coulduse the same presentation and
veterans could benefit from itjust as well.
How to apply for jobs, what yourrights are when you are in the
workplace, how to requestaccommodations if you have PTSD,
(33:36):
all of those things.
So maybe I could set that up.
If you want to connect me withyour person, I would love to do
that.
Dr. Porter (33:42):
Oh yeah, he would love to hear from you and I
would love you to come to ourorganization, eskidio, and just
talk, because we're taught toget past it, get past that pain,
get past what's happening inyour life.
So you carry that on in societylike you know what.
I must be a failure, so this iswhere I'm at now, but you're
not.
They're not failures and that'swhy we have to sit there and
(34:03):
talk to them.
And unfortunately, you may talkto them at the wrong time, when
they're incarcerated, whenthey're about to get a divorce,
when we could intervene, likebecause there's so many veterans
out here that would give give ahand.
Like me, I do it for free Iwould help with transitioning a
service member in the family.
I have no problem with that.
So even with not having abudget, I'm sure there's more
(34:23):
enough people out there give ahand to those service members.
Mila (34:27):
So we have a listener question here for you.
This is from one of ourlisteners.
They said my brother is a vetwho's been struggling with
housing and minor legal issues.
He says no one gets it.
What can I do as a familymember when he is too proud to
accept help?
Dr. Porter (34:46):
I like that question .
That happens.
It's not getting him help, it'sgetting your brother and you
help, okay.
When he sees it, he says mybrother has an issue.
No, no, we have an issuebecause it's a family.
And what he can do is say,brother, let's go together and
(35:08):
find help.
Now your brother is not saying,oh, I need help, no, we need
help, brother, I need this.
And then find him treatment.
Go to treatment together.
I need this.
And then find him treatment, goto treatment together.
One of the things that peoplefind out is when you're in a
society with other people,like-minded like yourself, you
tend to relax and throw that cardown.
(35:29):
What he's saying is my brotherneeds help, my brother needs
help.
No, no, no, we need help.
And when he tells his brotherthis, now they go over the
treatment and he sits with hisbrother getting treatment.
Mila (35:41):
And how beautiful is that.
That like the support, thesupport that someone must feel
immediately when you say weversus you, because it's I'm
sure it's isolating, coming backand seeing the same people
maybe you saw before, but you'redifferent.
It's isolating, I'm sure, it'slonely, and even that small
(36:02):
transition of he versus we I'msure makes a huge difference.
That's great advice.
Dr. Porter (36:08):
We can't help everybody, but we can try.
And as long as you give aneffort, that's all you can do,
because what's going to happen?
You're going to exhaust yourresources.
You're going to exhaustyourself Now.
You're going to exhaust your,your resource.
You're going to exhaustyourself.
Now you are going to be seekinghelp.
Ok, I wish I knew about thisbefore I got into divorce,
because I need help, but Ididn't know that.
Mila (36:28):
Thank you so much for coming.
This is so informative and Ithink it will be helpful for a
lot of people who don't knowwhere to turn, coming out or
having family members come outof the military.
So, thank you, we reallyappreciate it.
Ilona (36:40):
Thank you, it was very.
I learned a lot today that Ididn't know.
I didn't actually think thisepisode could be as interesting
as it ended up being becausethere was so much I didn't know
about how it works in themilitary, how people that are in
the military really rely onothers, and that that mentality
is different in the real world.
I never thought of it like thatand that was very interesting
perspective.
I think for me as a lawyer,when we deal with people who
(37:03):
come from military, who areclients, to understand that, to
kind of feel, to treat themsomewhat different because of
understanding where they'recoming from, and their
expectations.
Mila (37:13):
With more empathy.
Dr. Porter (37:14):
Definitely.
Thank you all for letting mecome on and express how much I
really care about my veteransand about people here just in
San Diego about thetransitioning back into civilian
life.
Mila (37:29):
Thank you.
Ilona (37:30):
Thank you for helping them.
Mila (37:31):
Dr Porter, thank you so much for your leadership, your
service and your voice forveterans who need more than just
thank you.
They need justice.
Ilona (37:42):
And to our audience.
If this episode opened youreyes, then please share it.
Mila (37:46):
This is your reminder that healing, like justice, is a
team effort.
Ilona (37:52):
Her voice is so therapeutic.
It's law, it's life, it's aglamorous grind.
We'll see you next week.
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