March 18, 2025 • 34 mins
Mila and Ilona raise their glasses to International Women's Month in this raw, unfiltered conversation about what it truly means to be a woman in law and in life. They welcome fellow accomplished attorney Lana Nassar for a champagne-fueled discussion that quickly moves beyond surface-level platitudes into the heart of shared female experience.
"Women all over the world experience the same things," observes Lana during one particularly poignant moment. "You get your period, you show up. You have cramps, you show up. You go through a miscarriage, you show up." This resilience forms the backbone of the conversation as the attorneys share personal stories about overcoming professional obstacles, navigating implicit bias, and making difficult choices about career advancement and family planning.
The discussion doesn't shy away from uncomfortable truths, including the frequent phenomenon of women undermining other women in competitive environments. All three attorneys agree that female solidarity is crucial in a world that already places unique burdens on women. "A friendly reminder to all the women: lift each other up," Mila urges. "It is rough out here. We need to support each other because no one else is going to do it."
From freezing eggs to balance career and family planning, to fighting for recognition in male-dominated spaces, to instilling work ethic in the next generation, these accomplished attorneys offer wisdom drawn from their combined decades of experience. Their conversation serves as both validation for women facing similar challenges and a roadmap for creating more equitable professional environments.
Whether you're building your career, contemplating major life decisions, or simply looking for inspiration from women who've carved their own paths, this episode reminds us all to "follow your fire" and never give up on becoming the best version of yourself. Subscribe now and join the conversation about what it means to maintain both grit and glamour in today's world.
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🎙️ Hosts: Ilona Antonyan & Mila Arutunian
📲 Follow us on IG: @glamorousgrindpodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mila (00:02):
it's women's month.
Lana (00:03):
Let's talk some stuff about women women all over the
world experience the same things.
Ilona (00:08):
That's the wildest thing to me either give up when
there's a challenge or give itmy all to survive this shit.
Mila (00:13):
Now I'm gonna make it through in life.
Your approach to anything isgonna form 90 of your experience
I follow my fire and anyonethat's looking for a purpose.
Lana (00:22):
There's jobs, and then there's something that you love
doing.
Mila (00:26):
In the legal field.
I've experienced thispersonally.
There's like a bias towardswomen sometimes, where someone
doesn't have bad intentions butthey like, don't give you an
opportunity because you're awoman.
And a friendly reminder to allthe women lift each other up,
you guys.
It is rough out here.
It is rough out here.
We need to support each otherbecause no one else is going to
do it.
Okay, amen.
Ilona (00:47):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and law is always in style.
Mila (00:52):
I'm Ilona Antonian, a certified family law specialist
and a trial attorney and I'mMila Arrutunia, a trial attorney
who specializes in employmentand personal injury law.
We are lawyers, friends andyour guides to real-life legal
drama.
Ilona (01:08):
Each week, we're breaking down most unforgettable cases,
sharing incredible personaljourneys and keeping you up to
date with what keeps usmotivated and inspired.
Mila (01:18):
So, whether you're hustling to make your own dreams
happen or just here for a goodstory, settle in with your
favorite drink, because we arebringing you wisdom, wit and a
whole lot of style.
Ilona (01:29):
It's law it's life, it's the Glamorous.
Mila (01:40):
Grind.
Welcome to the Glamorous Grindpodcast.
In honor of InternationalWomen's Month, we're sitting
down just girls to talk aboutall of the issues that working
women face.
This week we're sharing thestory of an individual who's
making a lasting impact A friendof mine and a colleague, Lana
Nassar, who is an attorney andan advocate, and we're going to
(02:02):
talk about women's issues,including women in the law,
obstacles we face and what wecan do to counteract some of
those issues.
Ilona (02:10):
So let's get into it and welcome Lana Nassar to the
Glamorous Grind.
Mila (02:13):
It is International Women's Month and we thought it
would be a great thing to haveanother powerful woman on and we
can just have a chat about someof the issues that impact
working women.
Women, women in law, that'sright.
Ilona (02:30):
I'll let you do the honors, sister, and this girl
definitely has got the glambecause she comes here with a
bottle of champagne.
Mila (02:35):
I love it.
I love it, you fit right in.
Lana (02:37):
All right, go for it Okay.
Ilona (02:40):
Oh, I thought you were going to hold it.
Let's do that.
Let's do that.
Let's eat you my word.
Lana (02:43):
Okay, there's nothing like wait, it's going to go in your
face.
What are you doing?
That's going to go in your face.
Ilona (02:53):
You were about to be soaked.
You know it's a glamorous grind.
Lana (02:56):
That's how we do it.
That's what it went like clubstyle in your face.
Epic Cheers to women.
Ilona (03:05):
cheers to women guys, that's a dumb way of opening
champagne that was so funny.
Lana (03:13):
Cheers to you and you, the glamorous grind.
Cheers to all women amazing.
Mila (03:22):
Lana, so tell us a little bit about yourself.
Like I know, you practice onthe defense side of employment
law and you've been in practicefor about 10 years, so what
drives you?
Lana (03:33):
I follow my fire.
I love that.
I follow my fire and anyonethat's looking for a purpose
follow your fire, because whenyou there's jobs and then
there's something that you lovedoing I'm not saying I love love
being a litigator every day,but I love it.
I do enjoy it.
I do enjoy like a deposition.
Yesterday I had so much fun Iwas like, wow, this is fun to me
(03:55):
, do you want to do a family law, come over to our firm.
Mila (03:57):
I don't know she's coming to the PI and employment site,
yeah.
Lana (04:06):
All right, yeah, all right .
This is what I think.
I think that I was aplaintiff's lawyer first.
Okay, I loved helping the youknow the little guy.
I'm a person that fights forrights.
I mean, you can look up mycases I've done in the past and
that's what I do.
I'm a civil rights at heart.
But there came a point where,you know, covid hit and I was
like I've always wanted to proveto myself that I could work in
big law, as they say, and so Idid it.
(04:27):
You know it's fine.
I met Amelia.
I met awesome, awesome people.
Something on the defense side, Iwill tell you.
When I first started, I waslike how am I going to like
everyone's like?
You went to the dark side,right, and this is something
that Guillermo shared with methat really resonated and it was
Lana, wouldn't you rather be inthe boardroom consulting than
(04:48):
knocking on the window?
And I think about that all thetime and I'm like he's right.
Like listen, bad things happenand sometimes people are lying.
Both is true, right.
Sometimes I genuinely believecompanies are trying to do the
right thing majority of the time, but of course, there's bad
apples and everything.
Believe companies are trying todo the right thing majority of
the time, but of course there'sbad apples and everything.
(05:09):
So wouldn't you rather have me,as a defense attorney, being
empathetic and understandingthat wait, we may have some
risks here Like, let's do what'sright by this individual rather
than someone that's like just ahard ass?
Like I wouldn't want that, andthe reverse is true.
On the other side of plaintiffs, there's different types of
plaintiffs lawyers.
There's plaintiffs lawyers thatare incredible, and then
there's ones where sometimes Idon't even know if I should be
saying this, but sometimes when,like, I settle a case on the
(05:31):
defense side, I'm like thatplaintiff's lawyer just sold
their clients so short, so short, and it's like that pisses me
off because I'm like that personwas wronged, but you were a
shitty lawyer and you don't care.
Yeah, you're lazy and you want aquick buck, but on the other
side of the coin, there'sfantastic plaintiff's lawyers
that are getting very bigverdict, especially in
(05:52):
California, but there's alsofantastic lawyers on the defense
side, like you know, everyone Iwork with.
They're amazing.
They're all amazing people, andso follow your fire.
That's my life motto.
That's why I started a podcast,because I love it.
I love sitting down with peopleone on one, no phones, and just
talking, because I don't thinkwe do that in society anymore,
and to me, that's my passion.
(06:12):
That is my passion.
I love civil rights.
I love that you're here, I know,and when Amelia texted me I was
like hell yeah, let's do it.
Ilona (06:19):
Thank you for coming.
I can definitely see the firein you.
Mila (06:23):
I have a lot of passion.
You have a spark, that'sobvious.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour podcast.
Lana (06:38):
My podcast is called the Lana B Nassar Vision.
Join the tribe.
I do believe it takes a villagefor anything, and I think a
rising tide lifts all boats andin particular with women.
Like let's lift each other up.
Ilona (06:43):
Like let's not knock each other down.
Lana (06:44):
Like lead by example.
You show love.
You show love and you showempathy.
Mila (06:48):
So let me tell you guys something okay, and I'm like a
very in your face person, like Iam very in your face.
I'm never quiet your face.
I'm never quiet, timid, and Iget a lot of shit from people
and I've been put down quite afew times in my career where
people just like come into myface and question me like who
the fuck are you?
But 99 of the time it has beenanother woman.
(07:09):
It is almost never a man.
Every once in a while it's someold man.
Every once in a while I do getthat, but usually it's another
woman, and it happens all thetime.
Women just don't bring eachother up yeah, I agree with
amelia, I do I mean, I agreewith that too.
Ilona (07:25):
Women are usually haters of other women who are
successful but why?
Or who are pretty or who's gotsomething going on.
It's a jealousy thing, but Ialways say because they compare
themselves and then I thinkpeople forget what it takes to
get there, like the effort ittakes.
Well, that all happens.
Lana (07:40):
That's exactly correct.
That always happens in thesilence, right?
You know, our world isbroadcast positivity.
Everyone's page is a positivepage, right?
And it's like no, you don'tunderstand the struggle.
Like we struggled, like Istruggled, like I struggle, like
we struggled, like I struggled,like I failed out of law school
, in fact, like I can helpsomeone that's in my shoes,
right, you can help someonethat's in your shoes, like same
(08:00):
with you, like we all have ourown journeys and all you can be
is yourself yep that's all youcan be, and I don't really give
a shit if somebody likes you ornot.
Ilona (08:08):
If somebody doesn't like you, they don't like you.
It could be a woman, it couldbe a man, it doesn't matter
because you have your ownpersonality.
Mila (08:12):
I feel like a lot of people do get down on that.
Lana (08:14):
Do you care if people?
Ilona (08:15):
like you or not?
Lana (08:16):
I think it depends.
Ilona (08:17):
Sometimes I get down when people don't like me, I'm a
human.
Lana (08:19):
Yeah, I get down too, Like I take hard on criticism.
She is so strong, she's adivorce lawyer of 20 years,
you've seen some shit that I'venever seen.
Yeah, but there are a lot oflawyers.
Mila (08:30):
But I I think that, like a lot of people will like post
their highlight reels and peoplejust see the results and don't
see the work that it takes.
That's why I mean I post a crapton.
Ilona (08:43):
No, you Well but the.
Lana (08:45):
Thing is.
Today you woke up at 2.59.
I did Actually I woke up at2.45.
Mila (08:49):
Thank you.
Ilona (08:52):
By the time I had my coffee.
Mila (08:53):
it was 2.59.
No, but the reason is because alot of people will see me and
they'll be like, wow, you havethree kids and you look like
that.
I'm like, yeah, motherfucker, Iwork out seven days a week.
Lana (09:02):
She sure does, but no one knows that unless I post it
right.
Mila (09:05):
So people just assume you're lucky, or they think, oh,
you're so successful.
Yeah, I wake up at 2.50 in themorning to start my work day.
No one sees that unless you sayit so like no one has the
audacity who, like, follows meon instagram to come up to me
and tell me I'm lucky?
Because I'm not lucky.
I fucking work hard there's noluck.
Lana (09:25):
No luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
One thousand, that's luck.
Ilona (09:29):
There's no luck I mean I believe I'm lucky in many ways,
but I definitely think you gottatake action to make it happen
or it's not gonna happen likeyou may be lucky, but it takes
work well, I think, yes, thestars have to align, so you do
have to be lucky.
Mila (09:44):
There's one opportunity my mother-in-law says.
She says, you know, on thetitanic people were young people
, were rich, people were, youknow, successful.
But unless you were lucky youdid not get out of there alive.
And that's like in everythingin life.
Ilona (09:59):
You know you have to have some luck to get where you want
to get, but a lot of it is workand, I guess, perseverance,
because, like when you watchtitanic, there's some people who
just like, jumped to the boatand rushed right and just like,
like, I'm gonna survive thisversus those that oh my god, the
people that, like, went tosleep with their kids as the
boat is going under.
Mila (10:19):
I can't even watch that part.
Yes, I cannot.
I have to turn it off.
It like fucking kills me.
It destroys me inside.
Don't have to be sad.
Ilona (10:28):
I know it's terrible.
Mila (10:29):
I don't care what you're doing.
Ilona (10:30):
You fight, but it's a fire in you that does that right
.
You either give up when there'sa challenge or like I'm going
to fucking give it my all tosurvive this shit.
Now I'm going to make itthrough and think positive and
like I mean, that's what I dowhen I have difficult cases,
shitty facts.
You know, I'm like all right.
You know you feel it in yourgut.
No, I'm going to change thisfeeling in my gut Because if I
(10:57):
let this feeling penetrate, it'sgoing to impact my day.
It's going to impact how thingsare going to turn out, and I'm
just going to picture a betterway this will happen, a better
end, and I don't know.
My thing is part ofmanifestation.
Mila (11:06):
Your mind is fucking powerful.
Lana (11:08):
You have to be flexible in your mind.
It's the most powerful thing.
You have to stay positive.
You have to make an effortevery day to stay positive.
Mila (11:14):
Well, and that's the thing that you sent, yesterday, I
think, in an email of, like,angela Duckworth Duckworth yeah,
it was about grit.
Yes, and there was a whole studydone on it and I watched the
TED Talk.
The study showed that thepeople who have the most success
in life are not the smartestpeople, they're not the richest
people, they're not the peoplethat are the most highly
educated or with the bestupbringing, but it's the people
(11:35):
who have grit, who are able tolike perseverance yes, persevere
, overcome.
When they hit an obstacle, theysee it as an opportunity to
fucking pick themselves up andkeep going.
Lana (11:46):
I love that favorite saying in life fall seven times,
get up eight.
Like I will never give up onmyself.
I failed out of law school.
I failed the the California bar.
I'm licensed in three statesnow I've licensed as United
States Supreme Court.
Fuck that, and that's how Imean to everyone.
Where's the camera?
Fuck that.
Like I genuinely never give up,never give up and that's why.
(12:08):
That's why I started a podcast,so people will see like I've
failed.
But one thing I'll never do isgive up on myself.
Mila (12:15):
Let's just be fair.
Like we all love men too, we do, we love them.
They're amazing.
We couldn't live without them,could not make babies.
Like what would we be withoutthem?
But also it's women's month, solike, let's talk some stuff
about women and all the stuffthat we do, like we are amazing,
we create human life.
I know we create human life.
(12:40):
I know this is like cliche andcrazy, but I loved being
pregnant because I felt like asuperhuman I people hated it.
I know most women hate it, butto me I don't hear that often.
I was a happier pregnant personthan I am not pregnant, because
people would come to me and belike, how are you doing today?
I'd be like like I'm fuckingsuperhuman.
I made an organ today.
What did you do To me?
The entire process isincredible.
Granted, I want no more kids.
(13:00):
Three is like I'm maxed out butthe whole process of creating
human life and what we do iscrazy to me.
Ilona (13:09):
I used IVF.
So, like you know, it isdefinitely a miracle and I'm
grateful for the technologynowadays and the science to be
able to do it, becausepersonally, I was focused on my
career and didn't get so luckyin my personal life to start a
family early on.
Or you know, actually I mean Iam lucky because life comes as
(13:29):
it comes, you know, and you makethe best of it, and I'm happy
the way it went for me becauseI'm ready to provide a certain
lifestyle to my kids at thispoint.
As to if I was having familyearlier in life, it would be
different, probably moredifficult, and I probably
wouldn't be where I am today asan attorney or be an experienced
and seasoned litigationattorney, because when you have
kids you can't put in the sameamount of hours and time into
(13:52):
your work as when you, you know,don't.
So I think, as a femaleattorney, to become real good
sacrifices, you can't reallyhave a family early on and I
believe in freezing your goodiesto do it when the time is right
and also not settling for thewrong man just because you know
he can be.
(14:13):
He can have children with youor you can have children with
him, like choose right, you'respeaking my love language,
sister, I think it's.
Lana (14:21):
I think everyone's on their own timeline and I think
everyone's on their own journeyand I think that the power a
woman has is in choosing theright person.
And if you haven't found thatperson, the best thing you can
do, in my humble, un-medicalopinion, is freeze your eggs,
because I think our society hasnever told us that.
(14:42):
I think people are talkingabout it now but, like for me,
for example, you know I wish Idid that at 30 years old Because
, as people know, you knowyou're born with all the eggs
right, and so the younger youcan do it.
Obviously it's so expensive andwe I do think our entire system
needs to cover eggs, whoeverneeds to cover it, insurance
companies need to cover it, butit is the only real way to find
(15:08):
opportunity and choice, choice,the choice of what you want to
do and what you don't want to do.
You know.
Not settle just to have kids,like you were saying, which I'm
not saying is a problem, it'sjust the lack of choice when you
can't freeze your eggs, I thinkis really scary for a woman.
Ilona (15:22):
Well, I think you know me being Armenian, you are also
Middle Eastern, right Like wegrew up sort of hearing.
You got to get married, you gotto have kids and I grew up with
grandparents that constantlyreminded me that I'm now an old
maid and all my cousins andeverybody's married with family
and I'm, you know, I don't haveit all together, although I was
(15:43):
focused on my career and, youknow, had I gotten lucky with
somebody, maybe things would bedifferent.
But everybody's life isdifferent.
I mean, you can make the wrongchoice and I did at one point.
You know, I made a wrong choicein marrying a guy, like pretty
quickly, because I thoughteverything was right and when
the kind of the dream fellthrough and I realized I'm not
going to have family as Iplanned, then I immediately went
(16:06):
to do the freezing because I'mlike, oh shit, I'm now 30.
I was 36 at a time.
The marriage thing didn't workout and I don't want to just
have a family with somebodyrandom like.
I want to do it on my terms andI want to freeze my genetic
material and, if I get lucky andlife happens and I meet the
(16:27):
right guy, to have a family withhim without having to go the
IVF route great.
But this is a good insurance tohave so that you are not, you
don't feel the pressure of abiological clock.
Mila (16:40):
Nowadays, a lot of employers, like big tech
companies, are covering.
You know they're gettingpolicies that allow women to
cover for reproductive things,including eggs freezing, egg
storage, if they opt to do that.
Eggs freezing, egg storage ifthey opt to do that, I think it
needs to be talked about becauseinfertility rates are through
(17:01):
the roof generally, butespecially like people are
getting married later, which isactually a good thing, because
people are becoming themselvesand knowing what they want
before they jump into marriage.
So you know, I think divorcerate is probably going to be
lower in 20 years than it istoday and you don't have to be
married to have children.
Ilona (17:19):
Now, many people just have children, that's true, and
avoid all the fiduciaries.
Lana (17:23):
Yeah, I know so many people that have a sperm donor
and that's the life path theychoose and you know that's
empowering Good for them.
You know I think you said itright.
It's an insurance policy foryou as a woman and you know, I
think you that I think you saidit right.
It's it's an insurance policyfor you as a woman and you know
you have this law firm now andmaybe you wouldn't be able to
build it the way you built it ifyou had kids at 25 you for sure
(17:46):
, wouldn't.
Mila (17:46):
What hours were you?
Ilona (17:47):
working.
Yeah, I worked like six, sevendays a week and I was there
until you know, after 1 am everyday and I was there early.
So it would not have beenpossible if I had family or kids
.
Mila (17:59):
I had a moment this morning, yeah, and like I've got
three kids now and they allneed stuff constantly.
And I do feel like and I talkedabout this on one of our past
episodes that like life is ateeter-totter and like sometimes
life needs more and sometimeswork needs more.
But if you're just startingyour career and you have a
family, it's incrediblydifficult to balance that.
(18:21):
I mean, even now, like Daniel,on Friday he has like a school
lunch and it's a 20-minute lunch.
Okay, you go to school and I'lllike bring him in and out and
I've gone every year.
And on Friday I'm like I'mreally busy, I have a lot going
on at work.
Like I don't want to take eventhat 20 minutes because that
means I have to work from homein the morning.
And he's just like Mom, Ireally want you to come.
You've been coming every yearsince kindergarten, I'm like.
(18:45):
So I have to like wake up atthe butt crack of dawn to like
make sure I get all my work in,to take that hour off, and I
have to work from home and thenI have to drive to the office
afterwards.
Why don't you just work fromhome?
Well, it's like it's hard toget everything done when I work
from home and then that breakand it's just harder.
So like little things like thatyou have to take into account,
(19:06):
and the problem is, the olderyour kids get, the harder it is,
too to balance that.
Lana (19:21):
So if you have kids later and you're later on in your
career and you're moreestablished.
Ilona (19:23):
It's a lot easier to have that flexibility and you get
your partying in yeah I didn'tget any partying, you didn't?
Lana (19:25):
yeah, I have a girlfriend.
Ilona (19:25):
You know I was in my 20s and cheers to that back in the
days, like when I I mean, I wentto law school but I also went
dancing and, you know, going toclubs and whatever.
Yeah, and like one of mygirlfriends who had kids early
on her 20s would call me, it wasliving through me because she
was stuck at home breastfeedingyou know one after another and
like our conversations, who arelike, hey, do you know what
she's, my daughter likes andlike?
(19:46):
and then I would hear kidsscreaming in the back.
And when you're 20s you don'tenjoy that, even if you're, you
know, trying to be nice whileyour girlfriend attends to the
children who are yelling in yourear.
She's yelling back at them asif it's supposed to be
interesting to me and like youknow, that was their life now.
But now it's kind of reversed.
Now their kids are old, they'rein college and I'm in the, you
(20:09):
know, baby stage.
But I don't care, like it'snice.
I feel like, whoever howeveryour life works out, just enjoy
it.
Like you're going to have theblessing of being, you know,
still young in another decadewhen your kids are going to be
older.
And I'm motivated, although I'man older parent, like my kids
are just one, I'm motivated tostay younger longer, right,
(20:31):
because I just have to be so Ican be in their lives.
Mila (20:34):
I'm going to eventually get my partying in, and you guys
will be there with me.
Lana (20:38):
I think it's a blessing when you have kids young, too,
because you are going to grow upwith your children oh yeah
Right.
And young, too, because you aregoing to grow up with your
children oh yeah Right.
And your parents are there,Right Like you have kids, have
their grandparents and theirlives longer, and so, whichever
way it cuts in your life, Ithink it works out, because what
a blessing I wish I had mygrandparents alive.
Like, oh my God, I know yourgrandma is still alive, yeah,
(21:01):
Like what a blessing.
So you know that's your lifeand you know you're you're,
you're Obelia, you areflourishing.
Ilona (21:10):
I watch you.
Lana (21:11):
You are killing it and you will motivate me.
You are.
So you are probably one ofthose disciplined people I've
seen in my life.
So if, like women, look at thiswoman because she you got
married at what age?
21.
21 years old Now you're 34.
Mila (21:32):
You got married at what age?
21, 21 years old.
Now you're 34, 34, so like thatpath is beautiful too.
Yeah, it's a different path.
I agree, though, like I thinkevery path is beautiful and and
generally in life, I think yourperception and how you approach,
your approach to anything isgoing to form 90 of your
experience.
I think both paths have theirpositives and their negatives.
Lana (21:49):
I was thinking about this the other day.
Women all over the worldexperience the same things.
That's the wildest thing to me.
Like you get your period, youshow up, right.
You have cramps you show up.
You go through a miscarriageyou show up.
You have a child, you show upafter a few weeks.
Right, you are taking care ofyour aging parents you show up.
Yeah, who men don't have thoseexperiences?
(22:11):
That's true.
And you show up and you'reglamorous and you're have a
smile on your face, and it'sjust all over the world.
We are all experiencing thesame thing and it's just
unbelievable to me the power ofa woman.
Mila (22:25):
It's really truly like remarkable I've experienced this
myself, and probably you havetoo where sometimes you just
feel like death for whateverreason, whether it's emotional
or physical.
Ilona (22:35):
Can you call me.
Mila (22:36):
When you feel like that, please Well, but like when you
have kids especially, you don'thave the privilege to feel like
death.
You show up for your kidsWhatever they need, If they're
hungry, if they poop their pantsand step in their poop.
Ilona (22:50):
You know how time is going to focus on like being
depressed.
You just got to.
Mila (22:53):
There's always something to do.
Always what my grandma said.
Every time I like, get into myhead my grandma would be like I
had five kids, I had no time tobe depressed and like that's not
the right approach either.
Right Like you should payattention to your feelings.
But we do.
We show up no matter what and Ido feel like there's this like
inherent underlying, like mamabear thing, that especially when
(23:15):
you have kids, it forces you toshow up no matter what and
that's always 100%.
Ilona (23:20):
You don't show up half-assed Like last night I was
working till like 3.30 to 4 inthe morning because I had to get
a project done that I feltguilty that it didn't get done
the other couple of days.
Uh so, and then, you know, mybaby was up a couple of times at
or night, so you know I gotabout three hours of sleep.
So in the morning I drive.
My daughter was still my makeupon from yesterday and I I
didn't have time to put on myregular shoes, I wore my fluffy
(23:44):
pink slippers and we were out ofapples and we're out of a
couple of things that I neededfor the babies.
And I'm like, all right, do I golooking like this?
What if somebody from mydaughter's school is going to
see me with, like probably, likeI don't know what I have in the
back of my hair because Ididn't brush my hair yet.
I'm like, okay, like my grandmawould say, never look like that
in public.
But okay, fuck it, we needapples and I need to get it out
(24:04):
of the way.
So the point is that you know,when you're a working woman and
you have a family or you don'thave family, there's so much
things you take care of otherthan trying to look good to go
to work house other than youknow, taking care of other
people's needs and everythingelse.
they're like little things likethat that take up your time and
you just get it done.
(24:25):
Yeah, you know whatever ittakes.
Lana (24:27):
I mean, if that were a state?
Women just get things done.
Mila (24:30):
We do Just get things done .
It's funny we were just talkingabout this too in one of our
other episodes like implicitbias, and what comes to my mind
is because I do a lot oftrainings on this but there's
like a bias towards womensometimes and there are
situations in the legal fieldI've experienced this personally
.
I don't know, you probablyhaven't because you haven't had
(24:51):
kids, but I'm sure you'veexperienced other biases but
there are certain biases towardsmoms or parents where, like
partners, especially in largelaw firms, when they're giving
out assignments and they couldbe great assignments but that
take up a lot of time or requirelong hours they'll be like I'm
not gonna give this to youbecause you have a family they
say that yeah, like you, youlike I know you like to be home
(25:14):
with your kids in the evening,so like I'm not gonna I don't
want to put this.
Lana (25:17):
I think they're probably being genuine you have.
Mila (25:19):
Like you have kids, like I don't, this is gonna take long
hours, it has a deadline.
I'm like, and me being who I am, I'm like, motherfucker, give
it to me.
She's like give it, I'm goingto get it done.
I'm going to get it done betterthan anyone else, but like
that's you know that's implicitbias where someone doesn't have
bad intentions but they likedon't give you an opportunity
because you're a woman orbecause you have a family, and
(25:42):
those are like issues we facesometimes, and I think men face
these issues too sometimes.
I've actually had cases come tome where men start being
treated badly after they takepaternity leave, because there's
like a whole taboo behind thattoo, of like men who take leave.
They're like why is he notshowing up for his work?
(26:04):
Like he doesn't need to liketake time off, time off to like
be with his kid.
It's not like he's recoveringfrom childbirth, even though
it's protected, and they're notgoing to say that up front, but
I do think that it happens a lot.
Ilona (26:17):
I think if I didn't have children or if my business
partner didn't have children, wewould have not seen it that way
.
But since we did and he hadbonding time like we all had
bonding time after we had ourkids, although not for too long,
because we have to get back towork pretty quick I think we
respect that, but had if wedidn't have children, I do think
that there would be thatperception like oh, you know,
(26:37):
like why does a dude need thattime?
But when you have kids, you getit.
Lana (26:40):
Yeah, and I think that a lot of men don't take it.
A lot of men don't take it.
I think lot of men don't takeit, and I think it's a big
conversation in America wherethey're not taking paternity
leave because, although theyneed it, I feel like they feel
that they're going to beperceived one way or another.
Ilona (26:53):
And they are perceived badly.
Well, they have a woman at homethat takes care of it.
Mila (26:55):
I mean like, but like, a woman needs to recover and they
need to bring a check home, likeyou know from, especially if
there's like a cesarean and youhave multiple kids, it's it's
hard to like take care of.
I mean, when I had my third kidI could not possibly recover
from childbirth and take care ofthree kids like I don't know
how women do it.
Lana (27:14):
That's true.
I didn't think about that.
It's not even just that yeahchildbirth.
Mila (27:17):
You have other children at home and I have, you know, a
four-year age gap between myfirst two and a three-year age
gap between my second two.
But imagine kids like you hadfour one-year-olds at once.
Like you couldn't do that onyour own.
I tried one night but it didn'twork out?
Ilona (27:30):
How do you do it?
I'm fortunate that I have help.
I certainly am not doing it bymyself, because I work full-time
, hire three people to live withme, because at night each one
takes one of the babies and thenI take one baby and I rotate
each of the infants so I get tobond with them every night and
then I also sleep with myfive-year-old.
I'm blessed that.
I guess I am able to hire help.
(27:54):
They're only reason I'm able todo that, because I worked hard
for since you know, since Ibecame a lawyer from 2005 to now
.
I'm going to my 20th year and I,you know, busted my ass for the
first.
You know 17 years like prettymuch nonstop.
You know I build almost youknow 2,800, 3,000 hours a year
regularly, and that's aside fromdoing administrative work and
(28:18):
marketing and everything else ittakes.
Lana (28:20):
I think people are built differently and I think people
prioritize things differently,Right, and so I'm more of like
you, but probably because we'rewe're immigrants, right, we have
this.
Like I'm first generation,you're an immigrant?
Ilona (28:33):
Were you born here?
Lana (28:34):
I was born here, so I have this like my parents came here
with $500 in their pocket andyou know we had to figure out
how to put food on the table.
So we have that hustle.
Ilona (28:41):
So okay, since our children are born in the United
States, how do we instill workhard mentality in them when
you're able to obviously givethem things you didn't have as a
child?
How do your parents do thatwith you?
Lana (28:57):
You follow your parents' lead.
I would see my dad leave thehouse every morning at 6 am and
come home at midnight for 40years because he didn't have
another choice.
And so I always say people sayour job is hard, my job is not
hard.
What my dad did was hard, right, my dad did for 40 years
driving into difficult areas andrunning liquor stores and
(29:19):
convenience stores, and that'shard work.
This is a privilege.
I stress, it's a privilege.
I do think, like I think yousaid earlier, though, it's a
privilege to be, you know,thinking about what's my purpose
, like I'm happy I get to havethose thoughts, but they don't
have that choice, you know.
And so my advice to you is youworked your ass off for 20 years
as a lawyer, you know.
(29:40):
Make sure your kids see that,because and not that they have
to follow your footsteps, but ifyou want them to get that to
the work ethic right.
Like everyone always says, howdo I get my kid to read?
And I always like I listen toall these podcasts about it.
They're like read, read infront of them, they'll read.
You know, if you watch tv,they're gonna watch tv kids will
see this woman here.
Mila (30:00):
I see not what you say, didn't I tell?
Lana (30:01):
you right before we started recording.
I see your son, son, emulatingyour steps.
Yeah, physically your steps.
Ilona (30:06):
Her office is so cute Didn't notice it until last week
.
It may have been there longer,but she has this huge banner on
the wall it says work harder.
Nobody cares.
And everything on her desk islike fuck you, nobody cares.
Work harder, work harder, workharder.
It's hilarious.
Mila (30:28):
My kid at least my oldest one does.
I think he appreciates that andI think a lot of times when he
doesn't want to do something, hedoes and I make him and I know
this is I get a lot of judgmentfor this but I'll make him
listen to kobe bryant podcast,kobe bryant talking and he talks
about his childhood and how,like what he did because I and
I'm going to get hate for this,but I don't really care.
I'm sorry.
I think we've lost ourcompetitive edge.
(30:50):
I think competition is not athing anymore and it makes me so
angry because I thinkcompetition is great, because it
makes you better.
It makes you better and that'sone of Kobe's greatest things
that he always talked about ishe's like I want to compete with
you because you make me want todo better, because you're so
(31:11):
fucking amazing, and I feel thatway and I want my son to feel
that way.
I want him to compete.
I don't want him to settle formediocrity, not because I want
him to be exceptional, but Iwant him to be his best self.
I don't want him to grow up andbe like I just wasted 10
fucking years watching tv for 10hours a day, like I want him to
be like I did this because Iloved it.
(31:32):
I did this, I was passionateabout this, like find his
passions and all of those things.
So Kobe has a lot of podcastswhere he talks about how he was
growing up and how he sucked atbasketball like sucked at it and
just worked so hard and was socompetitive until he became the
best version of himself.
And I make him listen to thosethings and he believes in it.
(31:53):
And one of the quotes that wealways say.
What Kobe says is like rest atthe end, not in the middle.
And whenever Daniel gets lazy,I'm like when do you rest,
daniel?
He's like at the end, end, notin the middle.
Lana (32:07):
I love that though.
Yeah, I think I think you're100, correct, 100 correct and if
not, I'll pay for his therapy.
Ilona (32:17):
Tbd I'll let you guys know something our parents were
never into.
No, it sounds like you're doingthe right thing.
Look, he's a guy and like,seriously, it's hard to find men
who have good values, familyvalues, and who are driven and
do what we're, you know are allabout.
So thanks for raising a goodman over there.
We'll see.
Mila (32:38):
Hopefully, all right Cheers to that, all right Cheers
to that.
Ilona (32:42):
I need more food.
Keep going, keep fighting.
Oh my God.
I need more food, keep going,keep fighting, oh my god, okay.
Mila (32:50):
Lana, thank you so much for coming and joining us.
This was such a funconversation, and thanks for
bringing the champagne.
I don't know if our producerwill ever let us have champagne
again.
Ilona (33:00):
I'm glad I didn't cause any personal injury on this
episode by breaking the glassand you're okay.
I know I had to drink from thebottle.
There's nothing I love.
I'm glad I didn't cause anypersonal injury on this episode
by breaking the glass and you'reokay, I know I had to drink
from the bottle.
Mila (33:09):
There's nothing.
Lana (33:10):
I love more than powerful women.
Mila (33:13):
To women, powerful women, amen.
Lana (33:16):
Cheers, cheers.
Ilona (33:18):
And good luck to all the women out there.
Just believe in yourself andwhen you get down, make a list
of all the things you'veaccomplished when you thought
you couldn't or somebody saidyou couldn't, and remind
yourself that it's all withinyou.
You have control over your lifeand say if anybody gets in your
way, get rid of negative people, don't be around them, keep
(33:39):
going.
Mila (33:39):
And a friendly reminder to all the women lift each other
up, you guys.
It is rough out here.
It is rough out here.
We need to support each otherbecause no one else is going to
do it okay.
Ilona (33:51):
What an inspiring conversation with Lana Nassar
who, working in law and advocacy, is truly changing the game.
Mila (33:57):
Absolutely.
This is proof that oneconversation can really make an
impact.
Ilona (34:02):
Thanks for tuning in.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, be sure to reach out to
us and let us know.
Mila (34:07):
And don't forget to hit like and subscribe and join in
the conversation.
Ilona (34:11):
And men.
We promise you next time it'snot going to be all about women
and you'll find somethinginteresting too.
So stay tuned and stay handsome.
Mila (34:18):
Keep grinding, keep shining and we'll see you next
time on the Glamorous Grind.
it's women's month.
Lana (00:03):
Let's talk some stuff about women women all over the
world experience the same things.
Ilona (00:08):
That's the wildest thing to me either give up when
there's a challenge or give itmy all to survive this shit.
Mila (00:13):
Now I'm gonna make it through in life.
Your approach to anything isgonna form 90 of your experience
I follow my fire and anyonethat's looking for a purpose.
Lana (00:22):
There's jobs, and then there's something that you love
doing.
Mila (00:26):
In the legal field.
I've experienced thispersonally.
There's like a bias towardswomen sometimes, where someone
doesn't have bad intentions butthey like, don't give you an
opportunity because you're awoman.
And a friendly reminder to allthe women lift each other up,
you guys.
It is rough out here.
It is rough out here.
We need to support each otherbecause no one else is going to
do it.
Okay, amen.
Ilona (00:47):
Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour
and law is always in style.
Mila (00:52):
I'm Ilona Antonian, a certified family law specialist
and a trial attorney and I'mMila Arrutunia, a trial attorney
who specializes in employmentand personal injury law.
We are lawyers, friends andyour guides to real-life legal
drama.
Ilona (01:08):
Each week, we're breaking down most unforgettable cases,
sharing incredible personaljourneys and keeping you up to
date with what keeps usmotivated and inspired.
Mila (01:18):
So, whether you're hustling to make your own dreams
happen or just here for a goodstory, settle in with your
favorite drink, because we arebringing you wisdom, wit and a
whole lot of style.
Ilona (01:29):
It's law it's life, it's the Glamorous.
Mila (01:40):
Grind.
Welcome to the Glamorous Grindpodcast.
In honor of InternationalWomen's Month, we're sitting
down just girls to talk aboutall of the issues that working
women face.
This week we're sharing thestory of an individual who's
making a lasting impact A friendof mine and a colleague, Lana
Nassar, who is an attorney andan advocate, and we're going to
(02:02):
talk about women's issues,including women in the law,
obstacles we face and what wecan do to counteract some of
those issues.
Ilona (02:10):
So let's get into it and welcome Lana Nassar to the
Glamorous Grind.
Mila (02:13):
It is International Women's Month and we thought it
would be a great thing to haveanother powerful woman on and we
can just have a chat about someof the issues that impact
working women.
Women, women in law, that'sright.
Ilona (02:30):
I'll let you do the honors, sister, and this girl
definitely has got the glambecause she comes here with a
bottle of champagne.
Mila (02:35):
I love it.
I love it, you fit right in.
Lana (02:37):
All right, go for it Okay.
Ilona (02:40):
Oh, I thought you were going to hold it.
Let's do that.
Let's do that.
Let's eat you my word.
Lana (02:43):
Okay, there's nothing like wait, it's going to go in your
face.
What are you doing?
That's going to go in your face.
Ilona (02:53):
You were about to be soaked.
You know it's a glamorous grind.
Lana (02:56):
That's how we do it.
That's what it went like clubstyle in your face.
Epic Cheers to women.
Ilona (03:05):
cheers to women guys, that's a dumb way of opening
champagne that was so funny.
Lana (03:13):
Cheers to you and you, the glamorous grind.
Cheers to all women amazing.
Mila (03:22):
Lana, so tell us a little bit about yourself.
Like I know, you practice onthe defense side of employment
law and you've been in practicefor about 10 years, so what
drives you?
Lana (03:33):
I follow my fire.
I love that.
I follow my fire and anyonethat's looking for a purpose
follow your fire, because whenyou there's jobs and then
there's something that you lovedoing I'm not saying I love love
being a litigator every day,but I love it.
I do enjoy it.
I do enjoy like a deposition.
Yesterday I had so much fun Iwas like, wow, this is fun to me
(03:55):
, do you want to do a family law, come over to our firm.
Mila (03:57):
I don't know she's coming to the PI and employment site,
yeah.
Lana (04:06):
All right, yeah, all right .
This is what I think.
I think that I was aplaintiff's lawyer first.
Okay, I loved helping the youknow the little guy.
I'm a person that fights forrights.
I mean, you can look up mycases I've done in the past and
that's what I do.
I'm a civil rights at heart.
But there came a point where,you know, covid hit and I was
like I've always wanted to proveto myself that I could work in
big law, as they say, and so Idid it.
(04:27):
You know it's fine.
I met Amelia.
I met awesome, awesome people.
Something on the defense side, Iwill tell you.
When I first started, I waslike how am I going to like
everyone's like?
You went to the dark side,right, and this is something
that Guillermo shared with methat really resonated and it was
Lana, wouldn't you rather be inthe boardroom consulting than
(04:48):
knocking on the window?
And I think about that all thetime and I'm like he's right.
Like listen, bad things happenand sometimes people are lying.
Both is true, right.
Sometimes I genuinely believecompanies are trying to do the
right thing majority of the time, but of course, there's bad
apples and everything.
Believe companies are trying todo the right thing majority of
the time, but of course there'sbad apples and everything.
(05:09):
So wouldn't you rather have me,as a defense attorney, being
empathetic and understandingthat wait, we may have some
risks here Like, let's do what'sright by this individual rather
than someone that's like just ahard ass?
Like I wouldn't want that, andthe reverse is true.
On the other side of plaintiffs, there's different types of
plaintiffs lawyers.
There's plaintiffs lawyers thatare incredible, and then
there's ones where sometimes Idon't even know if I should be
saying this, but sometimes when,like, I settle a case on the
(05:31):
defense side, I'm like thatplaintiff's lawyer just sold
their clients so short, so short, and it's like that pisses me
off because I'm like that personwas wronged, but you were a
shitty lawyer and you don't care.
Yeah, you're lazy and you want aquick buck, but on the other
side of the coin, there'sfantastic plaintiff's lawyers
that are getting very bigverdict, especially in
(05:52):
California, but there's alsofantastic lawyers on the defense
side, like you know, everyone Iwork with.
They're amazing.
They're all amazing people, andso follow your fire.
That's my life motto.
That's why I started a podcast,because I love it.
I love sitting down with peopleone on one, no phones, and just
talking, because I don't thinkwe do that in society anymore,
and to me, that's my passion.
(06:12):
That is my passion.
I love civil rights.
I love that you're here, I know,and when Amelia texted me I was
like hell yeah, let's do it.
Ilona (06:19):
Thank you for coming.
I can definitely see the firein you.
Mila (06:23):
I have a lot of passion.
You have a spark, that'sobvious.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour podcast.
Lana (06:38):
My podcast is called the Lana B Nassar Vision.
Join the tribe.
I do believe it takes a villagefor anything, and I think a
rising tide lifts all boats andin particular with women.
Like let's lift each other up.
Ilona (06:43):
Like let's not knock each other down.
Lana (06:44):
Like lead by example.
You show love.
You show love and you showempathy.
Mila (06:48):
So let me tell you guys something okay, and I'm like a
very in your face person, like Iam very in your face.
I'm never quiet your face.
I'm never quiet, timid, and Iget a lot of shit from people
and I've been put down quite afew times in my career where
people just like come into myface and question me like who
the fuck are you?
But 99 of the time it has beenanother woman.
(07:09):
It is almost never a man.
Every once in a while it's someold man.
Every once in a while I do getthat, but usually it's another
woman, and it happens all thetime.
Women just don't bring eachother up yeah, I agree with
amelia, I do I mean, I agreewith that too.
Ilona (07:25):
Women are usually haters of other women who are
successful but why?
Or who are pretty or who's gotsomething going on.
It's a jealousy thing, but Ialways say because they compare
themselves and then I thinkpeople forget what it takes to
get there, like the effort ittakes.
Well, that all happens.
Lana (07:40):
That's exactly correct.
That always happens in thesilence, right?
You know, our world isbroadcast positivity.
Everyone's page is a positivepage, right?
And it's like no, you don'tunderstand the struggle.
Like we struggled, like Istruggled, like I struggle, like
we struggled, like I struggled,like I failed out of law school
, in fact, like I can helpsomeone that's in my shoes,
right, you can help someonethat's in your shoes, like same
(08:00):
with you, like we all have ourown journeys and all you can be
is yourself yep that's all youcan be, and I don't really give
a shit if somebody likes you ornot.
Ilona (08:08):
If somebody doesn't like you, they don't like you.
It could be a woman, it couldbe a man, it doesn't matter
because you have your ownpersonality.
Mila (08:12):
I feel like a lot of people do get down on that.
Lana (08:14):
Do you care if people?
Ilona (08:15):
like you or not?
Lana (08:16):
I think it depends.
Ilona (08:17):
Sometimes I get down when people don't like me, I'm a
human.
Lana (08:19):
Yeah, I get down too, Like I take hard on criticism.
She is so strong, she's adivorce lawyer of 20 years,
you've seen some shit that I'venever seen.
Yeah, but there are a lot oflawyers.
Mila (08:30):
But I I think that, like a lot of people will like post
their highlight reels and peoplejust see the results and don't
see the work that it takes.
That's why I mean I post a crapton.
Ilona (08:43):
No, you Well but the.
Lana (08:45):
Thing is.
Today you woke up at 2.59.
I did Actually I woke up at2.45.
Mila (08:49):
Thank you.
Ilona (08:52):
By the time I had my coffee.
Mila (08:53):
it was 2.59.
No, but the reason is because alot of people will see me and
they'll be like, wow, you havethree kids and you look like
that.
I'm like, yeah, motherfucker, Iwork out seven days a week.
Lana (09:02):
She sure does, but no one knows that unless I post it
right.
Mila (09:05):
So people just assume you're lucky, or they think, oh,
you're so successful.
Yeah, I wake up at 2.50 in themorning to start my work day.
No one sees that unless you sayit so like no one has the
audacity who, like, follows meon instagram to come up to me
and tell me I'm lucky?
Because I'm not lucky.
I fucking work hard there's noluck.
Lana (09:25):
No luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
One thousand, that's luck.
Ilona (09:29):
There's no luck I mean I believe I'm lucky in many ways,
but I definitely think you gottatake action to make it happen
or it's not gonna happen likeyou may be lucky, but it takes
work well, I think, yes, thestars have to align, so you do
have to be lucky.
Mila (09:44):
There's one opportunity my mother-in-law says.
She says, you know, on thetitanic people were young people
, were rich, people were, youknow, successful.
But unless you were lucky youdid not get out of there alive.
And that's like in everythingin life.
Ilona (09:59):
You know you have to have some luck to get where you want
to get, but a lot of it is workand, I guess, perseverance,
because, like when you watchtitanic, there's some people who
just like, jumped to the boatand rushed right and just like,
like, I'm gonna survive thisversus those that oh my god, the
people that, like, went tosleep with their kids as the
boat is going under.
Mila (10:19):
I can't even watch that part.
Yes, I cannot.
I have to turn it off.
It like fucking kills me.
It destroys me inside.
Don't have to be sad.
Ilona (10:28):
I know it's terrible.
Mila (10:29):
I don't care what you're doing.
Ilona (10:30):
You fight, but it's a fire in you that does that right
.
You either give up when there'sa challenge or like I'm going
to fucking give it my all tosurvive this shit.
Now I'm going to make itthrough and think positive and
like I mean, that's what I dowhen I have difficult cases,
shitty facts.
You know, I'm like all right.
You know you feel it in yourgut.
No, I'm going to change thisfeeling in my gut Because if I
(10:57):
let this feeling penetrate, it'sgoing to impact my day.
It's going to impact how thingsare going to turn out, and I'm
just going to picture a betterway this will happen, a better
end, and I don't know.
My thing is part ofmanifestation.
Mila (11:06):
Your mind is fucking powerful.
Lana (11:08):
You have to be flexible in your mind.
It's the most powerful thing.
You have to stay positive.
You have to make an effortevery day to stay positive.
Mila (11:14):
Well, and that's the thing that you sent, yesterday, I
think, in an email of, like,angela Duckworth Duckworth yeah,
it was about grit.
Yes, and there was a whole studydone on it and I watched the
TED Talk.
The study showed that thepeople who have the most success
in life are not the smartestpeople, they're not the richest
people, they're not the peoplethat are the most highly
educated or with the bestupbringing, but it's the people
(11:35):
who have grit, who are able tolike perseverance yes, persevere
, overcome.
When they hit an obstacle, theysee it as an opportunity to
fucking pick themselves up andkeep going.
Lana (11:46):
I love that favorite saying in life fall seven times,
get up eight.
Like I will never give up onmyself.
I failed out of law school.
I failed the the California bar.
I'm licensed in three statesnow I've licensed as United
States Supreme Court.
Fuck that, and that's how Imean to everyone.
Where's the camera?
Fuck that.
Like I genuinely never give up,never give up and that's why.
(12:08):
That's why I started a podcast,so people will see like I've
failed.
But one thing I'll never do isgive up on myself.
Mila (12:15):
Let's just be fair.
Like we all love men too, we do, we love them.
They're amazing.
We couldn't live without them,could not make babies.
Like what would we be withoutthem?
But also it's women's month, solike, let's talk some stuff
about women and all the stuffthat we do, like we are amazing,
we create human life.
I know we create human life.
(12:40):
I know this is like cliche andcrazy, but I loved being
pregnant because I felt like asuperhuman I people hated it.
I know most women hate it, butto me I don't hear that often.
I was a happier pregnant personthan I am not pregnant, because
people would come to me and belike, how are you doing today?
I'd be like like I'm fuckingsuperhuman.
I made an organ today.
What did you do To me?
The entire process isincredible.
Granted, I want no more kids.
(13:00):
Three is like I'm maxed out butthe whole process of creating
human life and what we do iscrazy to me.
Ilona (13:09):
I used IVF.
So, like you know, it isdefinitely a miracle and I'm
grateful for the technologynowadays and the science to be
able to do it, becausepersonally, I was focused on my
career and didn't get so luckyin my personal life to start a
family early on.
Or you know, actually I mean Iam lucky because life comes as
(13:29):
it comes, you know, and you makethe best of it, and I'm happy
the way it went for me becauseI'm ready to provide a certain
lifestyle to my kids at thispoint.
As to if I was having familyearlier in life, it would be
different, probably moredifficult, and I probably
wouldn't be where I am today asan attorney or be an experienced
and seasoned litigationattorney, because when you have
kids you can't put in the sameamount of hours and time into
(13:52):
your work as when you, you know,don't.
So I think, as a femaleattorney, to become real good
sacrifices, you can't reallyhave a family early on and I
believe in freezing your goodiesto do it when the time is right
and also not settling for thewrong man just because you know
he can be.
(14:13):
He can have children with youor you can have children with
him, like choose right, you'respeaking my love language,
sister, I think it's.
Lana (14:21):
I think everyone's on their own timeline and I think
everyone's on their own journeyand I think that the power a
woman has is in choosing theright person.
And if you haven't found thatperson, the best thing you can
do, in my humble, un-medicalopinion, is freeze your eggs,
because I think our society hasnever told us that.
(14:42):
I think people are talkingabout it now but, like for me,
for example, you know I wish Idid that at 30 years old Because
, as people know, you knowyou're born with all the eggs
right, and so the younger youcan do it.
Obviously it's so expensive andwe I do think our entire system
needs to cover eggs, whoeverneeds to cover it, insurance
companies need to cover it, butit is the only real way to find
(15:08):
opportunity and choice, choice,the choice of what you want to
do and what you don't want to do.
You know.
Not settle just to have kids,like you were saying, which I'm
not saying is a problem, it'sjust the lack of choice when you
can't freeze your eggs, I thinkis really scary for a woman.
Ilona (15:22):
Well, I think you know me being Armenian, you are also
Middle Eastern, right Like wegrew up sort of hearing.
You got to get married, you gotto have kids and I grew up with
grandparents that constantlyreminded me that I'm now an old
maid and all my cousins andeverybody's married with family
and I'm, you know, I don't haveit all together, although I was
(15:43):
focused on my career and, youknow, had I gotten lucky with
somebody, maybe things would bedifferent.
But everybody's life isdifferent.
I mean, you can make the wrongchoice and I did at one point.
You know, I made a wrong choicein marrying a guy, like pretty
quickly, because I thoughteverything was right and when
the kind of the dream fellthrough and I realized I'm not
going to have family as Iplanned, then I immediately went
(16:06):
to do the freezing because I'mlike, oh shit, I'm now 30.
I was 36 at a time.
The marriage thing didn't workout and I don't want to just
have a family with somebodyrandom like.
I want to do it on my terms andI want to freeze my genetic
material and, if I get lucky andlife happens and I meet the
(16:27):
right guy, to have a family withhim without having to go the
IVF route great.
But this is a good insurance tohave so that you are not, you
don't feel the pressure of abiological clock.
Mila (16:40):
Nowadays, a lot of employers, like big tech
companies, are covering.
You know they're gettingpolicies that allow women to
cover for reproductive things,including eggs freezing, egg
storage, if they opt to do that.
Eggs freezing, egg storage ifthey opt to do that, I think it
needs to be talked about becauseinfertility rates are through
(17:01):
the roof generally, butespecially like people are
getting married later, which isactually a good thing, because
people are becoming themselvesand knowing what they want
before they jump into marriage.
So you know, I think divorcerate is probably going to be
lower in 20 years than it istoday and you don't have to be
married to have children.
Ilona (17:19):
Now, many people just have children, that's true, and
avoid all the fiduciaries.
Lana (17:23):
Yeah, I know so many people that have a sperm donor
and that's the life path theychoose and you know that's
empowering Good for them.
You know I think you said itright.
It's an insurance policy foryou as a woman and you know, I
think you that I think you saidit right.
It's it's an insurance policyfor you as a woman and you know
you have this law firm now andmaybe you wouldn't be able to
build it the way you built it ifyou had kids at 25 you for sure
(17:46):
, wouldn't.
Mila (17:46):
What hours were you?
Ilona (17:47):
working.
Yeah, I worked like six, sevendays a week and I was there
until you know, after 1 am everyday and I was there early.
So it would not have beenpossible if I had family or kids
.
Mila (17:59):
I had a moment this morning, yeah, and like I've got
three kids now and they allneed stuff constantly.
And I do feel like and I talkedabout this on one of our past
episodes that like life is ateeter-totter and like sometimes
life needs more and sometimeswork needs more.
But if you're just startingyour career and you have a
family, it's incrediblydifficult to balance that.
(18:21):
I mean, even now, like Daniel,on Friday he has like a school
lunch and it's a 20-minute lunch.
Okay, you go to school and I'lllike bring him in and out and
I've gone every year.
And on Friday I'm like I'mreally busy, I have a lot going
on at work.
Like I don't want to take eventhat 20 minutes because that
means I have to work from homein the morning.
And he's just like Mom, Ireally want you to come.
You've been coming every yearsince kindergarten, I'm like.
(18:45):
So I have to like wake up atthe butt crack of dawn to like
make sure I get all my work in,to take that hour off, and I
have to work from home and thenI have to drive to the office
afterwards.
Why don't you just work fromhome?
Well, it's like it's hard toget everything done when I work
from home and then that breakand it's just harder.
So like little things like thatyou have to take into account,
(19:06):
and the problem is, the olderyour kids get, the harder it is,
too to balance that.
Lana (19:21):
So if you have kids later and you're later on in your
career and you're moreestablished.
Ilona (19:23):
It's a lot easier to have that flexibility and you get
your partying in yeah I didn'tget any partying, you didn't?
Lana (19:25):
yeah, I have a girlfriend.
Ilona (19:25):
You know I was in my 20s and cheers to that back in the
days, like when I I mean, I wentto law school but I also went
dancing and, you know, going toclubs and whatever.
Yeah, and like one of mygirlfriends who had kids early
on her 20s would call me, it wasliving through me because she
was stuck at home breastfeedingyou know one after another and
like our conversations, who arelike, hey, do you know what
she's, my daughter likes andlike?
(19:46):
and then I would hear kidsscreaming in the back.
And when you're 20s you don'tenjoy that, even if you're, you
know, trying to be nice whileyour girlfriend attends to the
children who are yelling in yourear.
She's yelling back at them asif it's supposed to be
interesting to me and like youknow, that was their life now.
But now it's kind of reversed.
Now their kids are old, they'rein college and I'm in the, you
(20:09):
know, baby stage.
But I don't care, like it'snice.
I feel like, whoever howeveryour life works out, just enjoy
it.
Like you're going to have theblessing of being, you know,
still young in another decadewhen your kids are going to be
older.
And I'm motivated, although I'man older parent, like my kids
are just one, I'm motivated tostay younger longer, right,
(20:31):
because I just have to be so Ican be in their lives.
Mila (20:34):
I'm going to eventually get my partying in, and you guys
will be there with me.
Lana (20:38):
I think it's a blessing when you have kids young, too,
because you are going to grow upwith your children oh yeah
Right.
And young, too, because you aregoing to grow up with your
children oh yeah Right.
And your parents are there,Right Like you have kids, have
their grandparents and theirlives longer, and so, whichever
way it cuts in your life, Ithink it works out, because what
a blessing I wish I had mygrandparents alive.
Like, oh my God, I know yourgrandma is still alive, yeah,
(21:01):
Like what a blessing.
So you know that's your lifeand you know you're you're,
you're Obelia, you areflourishing.
Ilona (21:10):
I watch you.
Lana (21:11):
You are killing it and you will motivate me.
You are.
So you are probably one ofthose disciplined people I've
seen in my life.
So if, like women, look at thiswoman because she you got
married at what age?
21.
21 years old Now you're 34.
Mila (21:32):
You got married at what age?
21, 21 years old.
Now you're 34, 34, so like thatpath is beautiful too.
Yeah, it's a different path.
I agree, though, like I thinkevery path is beautiful and and
generally in life, I think yourperception and how you approach,
your approach to anything isgoing to form 90 of your
experience.
I think both paths have theirpositives and their negatives.
Lana (21:49):
I was thinking about this the other day.
Women all over the worldexperience the same things.
That's the wildest thing to me.
Like you get your period, youshow up, right.
You have cramps you show up.
You go through a miscarriageyou show up.
You have a child, you show upafter a few weeks.
Right, you are taking care ofyour aging parents you show up.
Yeah, who men don't have thoseexperiences?
(22:11):
That's true.
And you show up and you'reglamorous and you're have a
smile on your face, and it'sjust all over the world.
We are all experiencing thesame thing and it's just
unbelievable to me the power ofa woman.
Mila (22:25):
It's really truly like remarkable I've experienced this
myself, and probably you havetoo where sometimes you just
feel like death for whateverreason, whether it's emotional
or physical.
Ilona (22:35):
Can you call me.
Mila (22:36):
When you feel like that, please Well, but like when you
have kids especially, you don'thave the privilege to feel like
death.
You show up for your kidsWhatever they need, If they're
hungry, if they poop their pantsand step in their poop.
Ilona (22:50):
You know how time is going to focus on like being
depressed.
You just got to.
Mila (22:53):
There's always something to do.
Always what my grandma said.
Every time I like, get into myhead my grandma would be like I
had five kids, I had no time tobe depressed and like that's not
the right approach either.
Right Like you should payattention to your feelings.
But we do.
We show up no matter what and Ido feel like there's this like
inherent underlying, like mamabear thing, that especially when
(23:15):
you have kids, it forces you toshow up no matter what and
that's always 100%.
Ilona (23:20):
You don't show up half-assed Like last night I was
working till like 3.30 to 4 inthe morning because I had to get
a project done that I feltguilty that it didn't get done
the other couple of days.
Uh so, and then, you know, mybaby was up a couple of times at
or night, so you know I gotabout three hours of sleep.
So in the morning I drive.
My daughter was still my makeupon from yesterday and I I
didn't have time to put on myregular shoes, I wore my fluffy
(23:44):
pink slippers and we were out ofapples and we're out of a
couple of things that I neededfor the babies.
And I'm like, all right, do I golooking like this?
What if somebody from mydaughter's school is going to
see me with, like probably, likeI don't know what I have in the
back of my hair because Ididn't brush my hair yet.
I'm like, okay, like my grandmawould say, never look like that
in public.
But okay, fuck it, we needapples and I need to get it out
(24:04):
of the way.
So the point is that you know,when you're a working woman and
you have a family or you don'thave family, there's so much
things you take care of otherthan trying to look good to go
to work house other than youknow, taking care of other
people's needs and everythingelse.
they're like little things likethat that take up your time and
you just get it done.
(24:25):
Yeah, you know whatever ittakes.
Lana (24:27):
I mean, if that were a state?
Women just get things done.
Mila (24:30):
We do Just get things done .
It's funny we were just talkingabout this too in one of our
other episodes like implicitbias, and what comes to my mind
is because I do a lot oftrainings on this but there's
like a bias towards womensometimes and there are
situations in the legal fieldI've experienced this personally
.
I don't know, you probablyhaven't because you haven't had
(24:51):
kids, but I'm sure you'veexperienced other biases but
there are certain biases towardsmoms or parents where, like
partners, especially in largelaw firms, when they're giving
out assignments and they couldbe great assignments but that
take up a lot of time or requirelong hours they'll be like I'm
not gonna give this to youbecause you have a family they
say that yeah, like you, youlike I know you like to be home
(25:14):
with your kids in the evening,so like I'm not gonna I don't
want to put this.
Lana (25:17):
I think they're probably being genuine you have.
Mila (25:19):
Like you have kids, like I don't, this is gonna take long
hours, it has a deadline.
I'm like, and me being who I am, I'm like, motherfucker, give
it to me.
She's like give it, I'm goingto get it done.
I'm going to get it done betterthan anyone else, but like
that's you know that's implicitbias where someone doesn't have
bad intentions but they likedon't give you an opportunity
because you're a woman orbecause you have a family, and
(25:42):
those are like issues we facesometimes, and I think men face
these issues too sometimes.
I've actually had cases come tome where men start being
treated badly after they takepaternity leave, because there's
like a whole taboo behind thattoo, of like men who take leave.
They're like why is he notshowing up for his work?
(26:04):
Like he doesn't need to liketake time off, time off to like
be with his kid.
It's not like he's recoveringfrom childbirth, even though
it's protected, and they're notgoing to say that up front, but
I do think that it happens a lot.
Ilona (26:17):
I think if I didn't have children or if my business
partner didn't have children, wewould have not seen it that way
.
But since we did and he hadbonding time like we all had
bonding time after we had ourkids, although not for too long,
because we have to get back towork pretty quick I think we
respect that, but had if wedidn't have children, I do think
that there would be thatperception like oh, you know,
(26:37):
like why does a dude need thattime?
But when you have kids, you getit.
Lana (26:40):
Yeah, and I think that a lot of men don't take it.
A lot of men don't take it.
I think lot of men don't takeit, and I think it's a big
conversation in America wherethey're not taking paternity
leave because, although theyneed it, I feel like they feel
that they're going to beperceived one way or another.
Ilona (26:53):
And they are perceived badly.
Well, they have a woman at homethat takes care of it.
Mila (26:55):
I mean like, but like, a woman needs to recover and they
need to bring a check home, likeyou know from, especially if
there's like a cesarean and youhave multiple kids, it's it's
hard to like take care of.
I mean, when I had my third kidI could not possibly recover
from childbirth and take care ofthree kids like I don't know
how women do it.
Lana (27:14):
That's true.
I didn't think about that.
It's not even just that yeahchildbirth.
Mila (27:17):
You have other children at home and I have, you know, a
four-year age gap between myfirst two and a three-year age
gap between my second two.
But imagine kids like you hadfour one-year-olds at once.
Like you couldn't do that onyour own.
I tried one night but it didn'twork out?
Ilona (27:30):
How do you do it?
I'm fortunate that I have help.
I certainly am not doing it bymyself, because I work full-time
, hire three people to live withme, because at night each one
takes one of the babies and thenI take one baby and I rotate
each of the infants so I get tobond with them every night and
then I also sleep with myfive-year-old.
I'm blessed that.
I guess I am able to hire help.
(27:54):
They're only reason I'm able todo that, because I worked hard
for since you know, since Ibecame a lawyer from 2005 to now
.
I'm going to my 20th year and I,you know, busted my ass for the
first.
You know 17 years like prettymuch nonstop.
You know I build almost youknow 2,800, 3,000 hours a year
regularly, and that's aside fromdoing administrative work and
(28:18):
marketing and everything else ittakes.
Lana (28:20):
I think people are built differently and I think people
prioritize things differently,Right, and so I'm more of like
you, but probably because we'rewe're immigrants, right, we have
this.
Like I'm first generation,you're an immigrant?
Ilona (28:33):
Were you born here?
Lana (28:34):
I was born here, so I have this like my parents came here
with $500 in their pocket andyou know we had to figure out
how to put food on the table.
So we have that hustle.
Ilona (28:41):
So okay, since our children are born in the United
States, how do we instill workhard mentality in them when
you're able to obviously givethem things you didn't have as a
child?
How do your parents do thatwith you?
Lana (28:57):
You follow your parents' lead.
I would see my dad leave thehouse every morning at 6 am and
come home at midnight for 40years because he didn't have
another choice.
And so I always say people sayour job is hard, my job is not
hard.
What my dad did was hard, right, my dad did for 40 years
driving into difficult areas andrunning liquor stores and
(29:19):
convenience stores, and that'shard work.
This is a privilege.
I stress, it's a privilege.
I do think, like I think yousaid earlier, though, it's a
privilege to be, you know,thinking about what's my purpose
, like I'm happy I get to havethose thoughts, but they don't
have that choice, you know.
And so my advice to you is youworked your ass off for 20 years
as a lawyer, you know.
(29:40):
Make sure your kids see that,because and not that they have
to follow your footsteps, but ifyou want them to get that to
the work ethic right.
Like everyone always says, howdo I get my kid to read?
And I always like I listen toall these podcasts about it.
They're like read, read infront of them, they'll read.
You know, if you watch tv,they're gonna watch tv kids will
see this woman here.
Mila (30:00):
I see not what you say, didn't I tell?
Lana (30:01):
you right before we started recording.
I see your son, son, emulatingyour steps.
Yeah, physically your steps.
Ilona (30:06):
Her office is so cute Didn't notice it until last week
.
It may have been there longer,but she has this huge banner on
the wall it says work harder.
Nobody cares.
And everything on her desk islike fuck you, nobody cares.
Work harder, work harder, workharder.
It's hilarious.
Mila (30:28):
My kid at least my oldest one does.
I think he appreciates that andI think a lot of times when he
doesn't want to do something, hedoes and I make him and I know
this is I get a lot of judgmentfor this but I'll make him
listen to kobe bryant podcast,kobe bryant talking and he talks
about his childhood and how,like what he did because I and
I'm going to get hate for this,but I don't really care.
I'm sorry.
I think we've lost ourcompetitive edge.
(30:50):
I think competition is not athing anymore and it makes me so
angry because I thinkcompetition is great, because it
makes you better.
It makes you better and that'sone of Kobe's greatest things
that he always talked about ishe's like I want to compete with
you because you make me want todo better, because you're so
(31:11):
fucking amazing, and I feel thatway and I want my son to feel
that way.
I want him to compete.
I don't want him to settle formediocrity, not because I want
him to be exceptional, but Iwant him to be his best self.
I don't want him to grow up andbe like I just wasted 10
fucking years watching tv for 10hours a day, like I want him to
be like I did this because Iloved it.
(31:32):
I did this, I was passionateabout this, like find his
passions and all of those things.
So Kobe has a lot of podcastswhere he talks about how he was
growing up and how he sucked atbasketball like sucked at it and
just worked so hard and was socompetitive until he became the
best version of himself.
And I make him listen to thosethings and he believes in it.
(31:53):
And one of the quotes that wealways say.
What Kobe says is like rest atthe end, not in the middle.
And whenever Daniel gets lazy,I'm like when do you rest,
daniel?
He's like at the end, end, notin the middle.
Lana (32:07):
I love that though.
Yeah, I think I think you're100, correct, 100 correct and if
not, I'll pay for his therapy.
Ilona (32:17):
Tbd I'll let you guys know something our parents were
never into.
No, it sounds like you're doingthe right thing.
Look, he's a guy and like,seriously, it's hard to find men
who have good values, familyvalues, and who are driven and
do what we're, you know are allabout.
So thanks for raising a goodman over there.
We'll see.
Mila (32:38):
Hopefully, all right Cheers to that, all right Cheers
to that.
Ilona (32:42):
I need more food.
Keep going, keep fighting.
Oh my God.
I need more food, keep going,keep fighting, oh my god, okay.
Mila (32:50):
Lana, thank you so much for coming and joining us.
This was such a funconversation, and thanks for
bringing the champagne.
I don't know if our producerwill ever let us have champagne
again.
Ilona (33:00):
I'm glad I didn't cause any personal injury on this
episode by breaking the glassand you're okay.
I know I had to drink from thebottle.
There's nothing I love.
I'm glad I didn't cause anypersonal injury on this episode
by breaking the glass and you'reokay, I know I had to drink
from the bottle.
Mila (33:09):
There's nothing.
Lana (33:10):
I love more than powerful women.
Mila (33:13):
To women, powerful women, amen.
Lana (33:16):
Cheers, cheers.
Ilona (33:18):
And good luck to all the women out there.
Just believe in yourself andwhen you get down, make a list
of all the things you'veaccomplished when you thought
you couldn't or somebody saidyou couldn't, and remind
yourself that it's all withinyou.
You have control over your lifeand say if anybody gets in your
way, get rid of negative people, don't be around them, keep
(33:39):
going.
Mila (33:39):
And a friendly reminder to all the women lift each other
up, you guys.
It is rough out here.
It is rough out here.
We need to support each otherbecause no one else is going to
do it okay.
Ilona (33:51):
What an inspiring conversation with Lana Nassar
who, working in law and advocacy, is truly changing the game.
Mila (33:57):
Absolutely.
This is proof that oneconversation can really make an
impact.
Ilona (34:02):
Thanks for tuning in.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, be sure to reach out to
us and let us know.
Mila (34:07):
And don't forget to hit like and subscribe and join in
the conversation.
Ilona (34:11):
And men.
We promise you next time it'snot going to be all about women
and you'll find somethinginteresting too.
So stay tuned and stay handsome.
Mila (34:18):
Keep grinding, keep shining and we'll see you next
time on the Glamorous Grind.
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