October 11, 2025 • 33 mins
Dog—the U.S. debut of Israeli writer Yishay Ishi Ron—delivers an honest and unflinching portrait of a veteran battling trauma and addiction.
The story follows Geller, a former Israeli commando officer whose life unravels the aftermath of war. Now adrift in Tel Aviv, he struggles with PTSD, addiction, and the disorienting pull of memory. On the margins of society, Geller forges tentative connections—with Doris, a woman whose loyalty offers both comfort and challenge, and with a stray dog who becomes his unlikely companion but emotional anchor.
Written originally in Hebrew and long-listed for the Sapir Prize, one of Israel’s most prestigious literary awards, the novel now reaches English-speaking readers in a translation that preserves both its intensity and lyricism.
Ishi, is not only the author but also a survivor of PTSD, having served in an elite IDF combat unit. His writing channels lived experience into fiction, and it shows how storytelling can give shape to pain, reshape it, and transcend beyond it. Joining him is Yardenne Greenspan, a Tel Aviv–born writer and translator. Yardenne is a graduate of Columbia University’s MFA program in fiction and literary translation, and definitely has brought some of the most urgent voices in Hebrew literature into English.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Welcome to Beyond Words.
Today we turn to a Stark Newnovel that reckons with the
scars of war, the weight ofmemory, and the fight to stay
alive.
Talk, the US debut of Israeliwriter Ishai Ishi Ran, delivers
an honest and unflinchingportrait of a veteran battling
trauma and addiction.
(00:30):
The story follows Galar, aformer Israeli commando officer
whose life unravels theaftermath of war.
Now adrift in Tel Aviv, hestruggles with PTSD, addiction,
and the disorienting pull ofmemory.
On the margins of society, Galarforges tentative connections
with Doris, a woman whoseloyalty offers both comfort and
(00:52):
challenge, and with a stray dog,who becomes his unlikely
companion but emotional anchor.
Written originally in Hebrew andlong listed for the Sapir Prize,
one of Israeli's mostprestigious literary awards, the
novel now reachesEnglish-speaking readers in a
translation that preserves bothits intensity and lyricism.
(01:14):
Ishii is not only the author butalso a true survivor of PTSD,
having served in an elite IDFcombat unit.
His writing channels livedexperience into fiction, and it
shows how storytelling can giveshape to pain, reshape it, and
transcend beyond it.
Joining him is Yarden Greenspan,a Tel Aviv born writer and
(01:35):
translator.
Yardan is a graduate of ColumbiaUniversity's MFA program in
fiction and literary translationand definitely has brought some
of the most urgent voices inHebrew literature into English.
(02:02):
Well, congratulations.
Always keeping readers on edge,always wondering what will
happen next.
For example, will Doris Lovepersuade Galler to give up
drugs?
We also wonder, did Gellarreally commit murder?
What I'm thinking is what theFrench novelist Marcel Proust
(02:24):
once said.
The reader may know there ispoison in the cup, but the
tension lies in wondering whenit will be drunk.
Let me begin by asking whatfirst drew you to this way of
storytelling and how much of dogcomes from your own lived
experience.
SPEAKER_03 (02:44):
And when I feel that the tense of what's going to
happen with Dory, so who killedwho, then I want to know it.
And I want to make sure that theauthor feels the same passion
for the plot or for thecharacters that I feel.
(03:05):
So this is why I think it justled up.
You know, literature can bebeautiful without tense, it can
be beautiful with words, lyrics,with a good story.
Not only war veterans, althoughGeller is a war veteran with
(03:26):
PTSD, and I myself a survivor ofPTSD.
But you can have, you can seePTSD all around us, sexual PTSD
and accident, and all of usactually carry with us wounds.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
What would you want to say to someone who still
suffers from PTSD or addiction?
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
Don't be ashamed.
What happened to you can happento anyone.
We can never know how thin theskin is, how fragile our heart
and soul is.
And the opposite.
If you are hurting during war orif you are struggling under
(04:07):
injuries and PTSD or othermental illness, it's in in my
perspective now, it shows thatyou are more interesting
interesting, more artistic, moreuh gentle, more uh delicate and
sensitive.
No one wants to feel bad, but ifyou already are, so know the
(04:28):
advantages of being sensitiveand compress yourself.
And this is very important.
And I also want to tell peoplethat redo recognize the PTSD in
themselves, recognize it inothers.
See that they know that thepeople on the street which are
begging for money, they are notthere because it's an easy, you
(04:52):
know, easy job to make money.
They are you know using drugs orthey are using alcohol and they
are begging or they are homelessbecause something happened to
them.
And be compassionate and knowthat those people, even if you
cannot help them really, uh atleast have the compassion and
(05:16):
and know that the there is areason in their past that they
are hurt.
It got them there and theydidn't want to be there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Well, you eventually saw therapy, right?
And what pushed you to take thatimportant and even
transformational step?
And what do you think it reallytakes to heal?
SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
I would be very amazed to know if someone really
gets healed.
Okay, I mean, from my experienceof 30 something years, I had
many, many up and downs.
And I tried everything.
When you when you seekmedication, you can start with
drugs and alcohol, and then youcan try psychiatric medication,
(06:03):
and you can try natural andunnatural.
Whoever offer you a way to heal,you will take it.
And I tried everything.
PMDR.
At the bottom line, you can workon yourself.
You should do stuff that makesyou feel better.
So go out, uh, swim, do sport,uh, whatever you can.
(06:24):
But I don't believe in a perfectuh cube.
What drove me to get treatmentis just uh that I reached the
bottom.
And this is what usuallyhappens, okay?
When people are denying theirsuffering, they need to reach a
very low point in their life toseek help.
(06:48):
Especially in those cases whenwe are saying to ourselves, no,
you know, I was first sufferingfrom nightmares, and Ellie says,
Listen, you beat me up at night,go take a treatment.
And I said, No, it's justnightmares, everyone has them.
And then, even though I wasstoned and drunk, I suddenly
start feeling the anxiety.
(07:11):
And I said, Oh, the anxiety,it's probably because of the
drugs.
I I will quit drugs, I will takemedication.
And then it became worse andbecame panic attacks.
So I only combine the differentpuzzle parts only when I reached
(07:31):
the bottom and I collapsedtotally.
When I understood I didn't sleepand didn't eat and felt
depressed and felt panicattacks, not for you know uh 10
minutes, but for days and weeksand months, and I didn't
understand that and I was afraidto take benzo because everyone
(07:53):
says benzo are addicted.
Then I I I had to understand,okay, stop.
That's it.
Now let's treat it differently.
Okay, so this is what brought meto treatment.
And I wish people see their uhmanifest of PTSD, their
(08:14):
symptoms, treat them as soon aspossible and not wait really to
get so, because then you are onthe danger zone.
I had thoughts of uh why sufferso much.
So I'm sure many, many veteransand many other PTSD victims, if
they will not treat it in time,it might be too far, too extreme
(08:39):
to handle.
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
So what does it mean to live with PTSD in a country
like Israel where trauma feelslike a shared almost national
experience?
SPEAKER_03 (09:01):
Suddenly there's a big war, like what happened in
the 7th of October.
And it's it's all triggers.
When the 7th of Octoberhappened, you know, I went to my
psychologist, and instead oftreating myself, I was just
sitting and crying.
It was so overwhelming whathappened to us, to Israelis in
(09:26):
Israel.
Something that was so horrible,like almost like not almost like
the Holocaust, but it was assevere in our perceptions, you
know, uh people, children, womenraped, killed in such a
brutality that we didn'timagine.
And in such a surprise, youknow, our big country, our
(09:49):
strong country suddenly was onthe edge of extinction, really.
My defense system raised, youknow.
I wanted to make sure that Iwell uh protecting my family and
that I'm everything wastriggering.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
Well, I can say that I wasn't in Israel on October
7th, I was in New York.
Um, and I I think my first visitpost-October 7th was in
Passover.
So that was in April.
So it was a while afterwards.
But obviously, uh, people whodon't suffer of PTSD don't have
the same reactions.
(10:27):
But I can tell you that for meand for a lot of other Israelis
and Jews in New York, there wassomething different about our
physical reactions in the monthsfollowing.
Every time uh we heard a loudnoise, sometimes it was
fireworks, sometimes it was uh acar backfiring, we were we
(10:48):
jumped.
Um if I walk down the street andI see a white pickup truck,
which is the same kind of carthat Hamas uh terrorists drove
through the towns of Israel, I Isort of I find myself jumping a
little bit.
And I think you're absolutelyright that trauma from war or
terrorism is kind of a nationalexperience.
(11:11):
And in a way, that's comfortingbecause everyone understands it
and everyone, you're not alonein it.
But I think that probably makesit even worse for those who
suffer of actual PTSD.
You know, for me, for instance,I I served mandatory military
service, but I was not a combatsoldier.
(11:32):
I've never actually been incombat.
So I don't have that referencein my mind.
And I think for the people whodid experience that, no matter
how many years ago, um to livein a country where we deal with
it on a regular basis and it'snormalized can actually make
(11:53):
things more complicated becauseI think it's easier to miss the
signs of distress in a situationlike that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
There's recurring and constant symbolism when the
character gallery thinks he canbend a spoon, like Uri Gallery,
he might return to who he wasbefore.
What does that spoon signify?
Can we view it as a sort ofpassive hope for something magic
to happen, as you know, thatkind of inertia to wish the
(12:22):
world changes for you ratherthan you change yourself from
within?
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
You said it right.
I mean, the uh for addict casedesurvivors, uh, which is
usually goes together, most ofmost of them or most of us are
in some part of our life oraddict.
It is so hard to get out ofbeing addict, to cut down on the
(12:49):
medications.
You know, life is hard, life istriggering.
And I think that when I had toquit uh drugs, for instance, it
was I remember it sometimesworse than the PTSD.
You know, I remember I smelledweed for years after I quit, and
it was so hard for me.
(13:11):
And Geller is in such a lowplace from a good-looking ass um
officer in the army, justreturning from Japan, you know,
having a beautiful girlfriendand a and an amazing motorcycle,
and he's going to study and be alawyer.
(13:31):
Suddenly breaks down, you know,to million pieces, and he loses
everything.
He loses his family and he loseshis work and he loses his life.
And I think coming out, growingout from this low place needs a
supernatural power in ourperceptions.
(13:55):
Unless you then start doing itstep by step and with loving
people that help you and andother mechanisms, you do it
slowly.
But all of us want like a magicwand that will just, you know,
do a magic and makes us wellagain.
(14:15):
And and I think that uh Geller,that uh the younger uh audience
maybe doesn't know him, he wasin the 70s, like the biggest
thing in the world.
Like today, there are so manymentalists, you know, uh going
all over, and and and you arelike, wow, how did they do it?
(14:39):
But he was the first one, and bythe way, he was himself.
I don't know if he was anofficer, but he was in uh a
paratrooper uh in the Israeliarmy.
SPEAKER_02 (14:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
And uh yes, I think that uh watching something so
mesmerizing is something thatcan give uh can can give you
false hopes.
And this is what Geller ispracticing, false hopes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
And I think also there there's a scene in the
book where he sits around withhis army buddies and they talk
about Geller, about Urigeller,and um, you know, his his
friends seem to understand whathe doesn't, which is it's an
act.
And because he was big in the70s, by the time that they're
having this conversation, it'salmost kind of a joke.
(15:31):
Um which in turn says somethingabout the protagonist's
situation and the fact that hehe's holding on to these things
that really obviously he's notgonna be able to bend a spoon
with the power of his mind, butalso the role models that he's
picking for himself are leadinghim down the wrong paths.
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
So, Yardan, every form of long-term mental
suffering develops its ownlanguage of expression.
How do you hear the rhythm ofdepression or solitude?
And how do you translate thatinto English across language and
cultural borders?
SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
I think in this book specifically, one thing that
stood out to me was the way hesees the world, it's all very
aggressive.
Um, and the aggression is turnedagainst him.
So there's all these littlemoments where he tries to do
something, he tries tomanipulate an object, then it
doesn't work, and he feels as ifthe object is mocking him.
(16:25):
Or he looks at the sky and hethinks it's early, but because
he was stoned, he didn't noticethe passage of hours, and so
it's dark.
And he says something like, uh,the sky puts on an evening
costume.
Like the even the time of day islike a charade.
Uh the purpose of which is totrick him.
(16:47):
That kind of language it reallyillustrates the mental state
that he's in, where the world isout to get you, essentially.
And or at best, if not out toget you, the world doesn't
really care about you and is notgoing to make an effort to help
you.
Um and so I did what I do withevery book that I translate.
(17:09):
Um, you know, Ishii was sayingearlier about how he felt that
the writing process helped himunderstand his own mental
situation.
Um, it's similar for me intranslation.
I kind of just start.
I ask a few questions ahead oftime of the author, but then I
just dive in.
And typically the book teachesme how to translate it, and I
(17:32):
try to just really whatever thelanguage is doing, uh whatever
the plot is, wherever the plottakes me, I try to just go
there.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
Sometimes things just don'ttranslate naturally enough, and
you kind of have to find adifferent way in.
But for the most part, if a bookhas its own um its own lingo, I
(17:58):
will internalize it.
And if it doesn't happen rightaway, then it'll happen at some
point during the book.
Sometimes it only happens closeto the end, and then I have to
go back and redo things to sortof to to to to implement what I
learned.
Um but essentially it's sort oflike I I I it's a little gross,
(18:22):
but the metaphor that alwayscomes to my mind is it's it's
like I'm stepping into theauthor's skin and I'm kind of
like wearing it like a suit, andI'm sitting in front of the
computer and I'm writing as if Iam, in this case case, Ishii, if
he wrote his book in English.
That's that's the goal.
Sometimes it works better thanother times, but um I have to
(18:42):
inhabit in that case the stateof mind of someone who's out on
the streets uh barely survivingand feeling very much attacked
by the world.
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
Well, Ishii, what was it like to see your own
voice translated into English?
Were there moments of surpriseor or even discomfort in hearing
yourself in another language?
SPEAKER_03 (19:08):
It gives me a space, a distance between the book I
wrote when I read uh your dancework.
It was uh helping me to read mybook in objective eyes.
Okay, because suddenly it was myvoice, but it wasn't exactly my
(19:30):
words because the words changedto English.
Because I'm a sensitive person.
It kind of connected me to yourden.
I don't know how much he knowsit, but like I feel there's a
code that is now connectedbetween us because I was reading
it and I'm like, I thoughtEllie, wow, look, look what she
(19:54):
did here.
It's amazing, you know.
And and although I'm the writer,I think that uh in the English
version, Yarden is has like ahuge part, you know.
So it's suddenly a little bit uhdog is a little bit now mine and
Yarden in English, not onlymine, because she she put such a
(20:17):
beautiful voice to the book.
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
Yarden between two different translation
strategies, you know, one isdomestication and
foreignization.
I know you've also studiedtranslation, so domestication
emphasizes making the originaltext sounding more like the
target language, andforeignization is completely the
opposite by retaining theoriginal flavor, if you will, of
(20:42):
the language, syntax, idioms assuch.
And can you talk about thischoice?
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
First of all, I I just want to thank Ishii for
what he said.
And I I absolutely feel thatcord that connects us, I think
that's what happens when itworks, you know?
Um because it's like now there'sit's like there's a piece of my
brain and the piece of his brainthat are sort of like it's the
same.
Um in terms of sentencestructure, in terms of dialogue,
(21:13):
uh I I need uh an Englishlanguage reader to understand
what's going on.
And so I might include somewords of Hebrew or Arabic, which
is also widely used in Israel.
Um, I'm always gonna go forwriting that feels easily
understandable because otherwiseI think that it really just gets
in the way.
But when it comes to almosteverything else, um the culture,
(21:38):
the way people associate witheach other, um, the systems and
institutions and everything likethat, I'm gonna try to keep it
as foreignized as possible.
Um and I think to me, it's justum this story would not exist in
the same way if it were anAmerican story.
(22:00):
Yes, there's uh uh military uhin America, and yes, there are
many people who suffer of PTSD,and many of them end up on the
streets addicted to drugs.
Absolutely.
And still it's going to lookdifferent.
The systems of support aredifferent, the relationships are
different.
Uh, as we were mentioningearlier, the the way people
perceive trauma, thenormalization of it has a
(22:22):
different effect when you're inIsrael.
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
I I think in order to understand the story
properly, it has to be veryclearly set where it is set.
It ha it has to be rooted in thetime and place.
Yeah.
Um, I also believe, for me,translation, the the beauty of
it is the way that it makesplaces and people that you've
never met in your life or neverencountered in your life real.
(22:47):
Because for most of us, if we'rebeing honest, a country on the
other side of the world, we knowthat it's real in principle, but
it's not really real to us.
We have no understanding of whatthe day-to-day looks like, um,
how people communicate with eachother.
And so I think the the importantthing about translating and
(23:08):
reading works in translation isthat it brings people together.
And if you're gonna do that, itsort of has to be a little bit
foreignized.
Uh, I don't want people to beable to read this and just
pretend like it's taking placein New York or Chicago or Los
Angeles or anywhere else, whichis why I do always uh include a
(23:28):
little bit of the originallanguage where it feels natural.
And uh, you know, I might, ifthere's a name, a character name
that's particularly troublesomefor people to read or to
pronounce uh if they're not uhHebrew speakers, maybe I'll
change it a little bit.
I think people who want to readworks in translation want to do,
(23:50):
want to put in a little bit ofeffort of trying to bridge those
gaps and understand a differentculture.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Fantastic.
Well, for Ishii, what do youhope readers, especially
American readers, carry withthem after reading Dog?
SPEAKER_03 (24:05):
Dog is about uh PTSD and it's a very, very important
subject.
But I also want people tounderstand the literary quality
of the book, meaning it isimportant for me that Dog would
be read also as a literaturework, not only as a PTSD uh
(24:31):
discussion or perspective.
That's why I feel uh I'm sohappy with the work you have
done this, because it it puts itin uh such a high level of
literature and not you know justanother book which is
translated, because I read a lotof translation from English or
(24:52):
other languages to Hebrew, andsometimes it's very easy to know
it was if it was done by likeamazing translators or done like
mediocre, you know.
And I'm so so happy that youknow they did a good job because
for me it it's very importantthat people will take it in the
(25:15):
libraries, let's say, as afiction book, okay, and enjoy it
also.
Not only, but of course, whenthey finish reading, I want them
to think that what they read waswritten by someone who
experienced something like it.
(25:36):
And when they stop at the stopline in their car on the way to
work, and suddenly someone comesand asks for money, not
immediately they would think,oh, you know, I have to suffer
it, and close up the window.
And but really to see the personand to understand society is
(25:58):
very complicated, and lots ofparts of society are weak, ill
people, or mentally ill people,and they all need attention and
need yourself, and they cannotbe transparent.
And this is what usuallyhappens.
So I think dogs, like otherbooks which are written about
(26:22):
mental uh disorders, you usuallyyou try to get emphasized and to
understand the trauma and the uhillness of the protagonist.
So, from my point of view, thisis something I want the readers
to come out with.
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
Well, for Yardin, what was the most difficult
aspect of bringing this novelinto English for you?
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
Military jargon is always tricky.
Um names of units, uh types ofweaponry, uh deployment, all
that stuff uh is verysite-specific.
So while all the terms exist inEnglish, they don't always refer
to the same things.
And do you I also thought it wasimportant to adapt it a little
(27:06):
bit to a society where there'smilitary service is not
mandatory in most of the mostEnglish-speaking countries.
And so not everyone speaks thatthat sort of language fluently.
Um other than that, the biggestchallenges are always um
anything that plays around withlanguage, if it's uh jokes or
(27:29):
wordplay, double entendre, stufflike that.
Um and also um there's there's away in which uh Israelis are
very direct with each other.
And while I did say earlier thatI I I that's something that I
would definitely preserve in thetranslation because it's part of
(27:50):
the culture, sometimes it's alittle bit um it's it's a bit of
a delicate game to convey thatdirectness without it coming off
to uh a reader as rudeness.
When you're translating a bookwith a protagonist that is uh
deeply um wounded um on anemotional level and with
(28:16):
sometimes questionable morals,that's always gonna be a bit of
a challenge too, because youdon't want to sugarcoat it, but
you do want, as Ichi said, youwant readers to see through into
the heart of the person um tosee that in essence they are
someone who was deeply hurt andis just trying to figure out a
way to carry on.
(28:37):
That was easy enough to dobecause the the writing of the
original already conveyed that.
But when the word choice inEnglish also has to has to keep
in line with that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
Well, for Ishii, why do you think literature can be
one of the few safe places tospeak honestly about trauma?
SPEAKER_03 (28:59):
As a whole is a safer place to speak about
trauma because and about artstuff, any and like any art
stuff, not only drama.
That's why, especially in timeslike this, like in Israel and in
uh Gaza and in from neighboringcountries, it is so important to
(29:21):
continue to write and to havethe voices heard.
That's why I think that youknow, trying to prevent from
Israelis' uh voices in culturenow uh to be heard, it's not
very helpful at all because ourvoices are important, and
(29:41):
sometimes if you try to hearthem, you will hear different
things than what you think.
And it's it has no politicalvoice, it has an emotional
voice.
You can easily recognize thisvoice when you read about.
The dog itself, which Gela sayshe was not a Hamas dog, he was
(30:06):
not a jihad dog, he was not aJewish dog, he had no beard, he
had no colors of Hamas.
It's just a stray dog, you know.
It was happened to be in Gaza,and then he happens to be in Tel
Aviv.
And this is something veryimportant.
People, you know, when they ifthey do try to read dogs, they
(30:28):
will understand that dog is uhempathic to the injured people
of the war, not only to theIsraeli side, but to the
Palestinian side, and to uh whatwar is doing to people anywhere?
It's the same, like you know, II enjoy so much to read books
(30:49):
from Egypt or from Arabcountries and you know listen to
their voices.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
I've heard Doc is being adapted into a film right
now.
So, how involved are you, Ishii,in the process, and how do you
feel about seeing the storyreimagined on screen?
SPEAKER_03 (31:09):
Very excited.
Radricklis is a very acclaimeduh director and producer, he's
now finishing running with hisuh new movie that was uh reading
Lolita in Tehran.
When he approached me, uh it waslike so exciting.
(31:30):
And at first, you know, I justuh said, okay, let him try and
see.
But then he returned and said,Okay, he got the first uh fans
for the for making thescreenplay, and so then he had
he really bought the the rights,and it became much more uh real
(31:51):
and uh I'm very excited.
He will start handling dog whenhe finished uh his current uh
movie, which is very successfuluh internationally.
So he's like flying around anddoing a lot of uh interviews and
uh with uh with reading LolitaInterra.
(32:13):
So uh we we said we will meet inlike a week or two and start to
think about it uh exactly how todo.
But again, it's his voice.
I would not interfere with theother work, I will not interfere
with uh movie unless he asks myopinion, of course.
But I made my art and when thenwhen it transformed to something
(32:38):
which others are much moreexpert than I am, I will uh, you
know, put my head down and say,okay, do your what you're good
at, and and of course, I'm very,very excited, and I'm looking
forward to seeing Dog on the BigScreen here.
SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
Well, congratulations again.
Thank you for joining me onBeyond Words for this
conversation about Dog.
My gratitude to Ishii and Yardanfor their openness to talk about
trauma and for their creativeinspirations, and to you, my
listeners, for walking with usinto this difficult but vital
terrain of literature.
SPEAKER_03 (33:16):
So, Claire, thank you so much for having us.
Just to say that uh we wouldlove the audience to follow us,
Yordan and myself, in our uhsocial networks and my YouTube
channel.
We are now uh finishing a newnovel which uh Dan also
translated an amazing novel,which uh if you will follow us,
(33:39):
you will know more about it.
Welcome to Beyond Words.
Today we turn to a Stark Newnovel that reckons with the
scars of war, the weight ofmemory, and the fight to stay
alive.
Talk, the US debut of Israeliwriter Ishai Ishi Ran, delivers
an honest and unflinchingportrait of a veteran battling
trauma and addiction.
(00:30):
The story follows Galar, aformer Israeli commando officer
whose life unravels theaftermath of war.
Now adrift in Tel Aviv, hestruggles with PTSD, addiction,
and the disorienting pull ofmemory.
On the margins of society, Galarforges tentative connections
with Doris, a woman whoseloyalty offers both comfort and
(00:52):
challenge, and with a stray dog,who becomes his unlikely
companion but emotional anchor.
Written originally in Hebrew andlong listed for the Sapir Prize,
one of Israeli's mostprestigious literary awards, the
novel now reachesEnglish-speaking readers in a
translation that preserves bothits intensity and lyricism.
(01:14):
Ishii is not only the author butalso a true survivor of PTSD,
having served in an elite IDFcombat unit.
His writing channels livedexperience into fiction, and it
shows how storytelling can giveshape to pain, reshape it, and
transcend beyond it.
Joining him is Yarden Greenspan,a Tel Aviv born writer and
(01:35):
translator.
Yardan is a graduate of ColumbiaUniversity's MFA program in
fiction and literary translationand definitely has brought some
of the most urgent voices inHebrew literature into English.
(02:02):
Well, congratulations.
Always keeping readers on edge,always wondering what will
happen next.
For example, will Doris Lovepersuade Galler to give up
drugs?
We also wonder, did Gellarreally commit murder?
What I'm thinking is what theFrench novelist Marcel Proust
(02:24):
once said.
The reader may know there ispoison in the cup, but the
tension lies in wondering whenit will be drunk.
Let me begin by asking whatfirst drew you to this way of
storytelling and how much of dogcomes from your own lived
experience.
SPEAKER_03 (02:44):
And when I feel that the tense of what's going to
happen with Dory, so who killedwho, then I want to know it.
And I want to make sure that theauthor feels the same passion
for the plot or for thecharacters that I feel.
(03:05):
So this is why I think it justled up.
You know, literature can bebeautiful without tense, it can
be beautiful with words, lyrics,with a good story.
Not only war veterans, althoughGeller is a war veteran with
(03:26):
PTSD, and I myself a survivor ofPTSD.
But you can have, you can seePTSD all around us, sexual PTSD
and accident, and all of usactually carry with us wounds.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
What would you want to say to someone who still
suffers from PTSD or addiction?
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
Don't be ashamed.
What happened to you can happento anyone.
We can never know how thin theskin is, how fragile our heart
and soul is.
And the opposite.
If you are hurting during war orif you are struggling under
(04:07):
injuries and PTSD or othermental illness, it's in in my
perspective now, it shows thatyou are more interesting
interesting, more artistic, moreuh gentle, more uh delicate and
sensitive.
No one wants to feel bad, but ifyou already are, so know the
(04:28):
advantages of being sensitiveand compress yourself.
And this is very important.
And I also want to tell peoplethat redo recognize the PTSD in
themselves, recognize it inothers.
See that they know that thepeople on the street which are
begging for money, they are notthere because it's an easy, you
(04:52):
know, easy job to make money.
They are you know using drugs orthey are using alcohol and they
are begging or they are homelessbecause something happened to
them.
And be compassionate and knowthat those people, even if you
cannot help them really, uh atleast have the compassion and
(05:16):
and know that the there is areason in their past that they
are hurt.
It got them there and theydidn't want to be there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Well, you eventually saw therapy, right?
And what pushed you to take thatimportant and even
transformational step?
And what do you think it reallytakes to heal?
SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
I would be very amazed to know if someone really
gets healed.
Okay, I mean, from my experienceof 30 something years, I had
many, many up and downs.
And I tried everything.
When you when you seekmedication, you can start with
drugs and alcohol, and then youcan try psychiatric medication,
(06:03):
and you can try natural andunnatural.
Whoever offer you a way to heal,you will take it.
And I tried everything.
PMDR.
At the bottom line, you can workon yourself.
You should do stuff that makesyou feel better.
So go out, uh, swim, do sport,uh, whatever you can.
(06:24):
But I don't believe in a perfectuh cube.
What drove me to get treatmentis just uh that I reached the
bottom.
And this is what usuallyhappens, okay?
When people are denying theirsuffering, they need to reach a
very low point in their life toseek help.
(06:48):
Especially in those cases whenwe are saying to ourselves, no,
you know, I was first sufferingfrom nightmares, and Ellie says,
Listen, you beat me up at night,go take a treatment.
And I said, No, it's justnightmares, everyone has them.
And then, even though I wasstoned and drunk, I suddenly
start feeling the anxiety.
(07:11):
And I said, Oh, the anxiety,it's probably because of the
drugs.
I I will quit drugs, I will takemedication.
And then it became worse andbecame panic attacks.
So I only combine the differentpuzzle parts only when I reached
(07:31):
the bottom and I collapsedtotally.
When I understood I didn't sleepand didn't eat and felt
depressed and felt panicattacks, not for you know uh 10
minutes, but for days and weeksand months, and I didn't
understand that and I was afraidto take benzo because everyone
(07:53):
says benzo are addicted.
Then I I I had to understand,okay, stop.
That's it.
Now let's treat it differently.
Okay, so this is what brought meto treatment.
And I wish people see their uhmanifest of PTSD, their
(08:14):
symptoms, treat them as soon aspossible and not wait really to
get so, because then you are onthe danger zone.
I had thoughts of uh why sufferso much.
So I'm sure many, many veteransand many other PTSD victims, if
they will not treat it in time,it might be too far, too extreme
(08:39):
to handle.
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
So what does it mean to live with PTSD in a country
like Israel where trauma feelslike a shared almost national
experience?
SPEAKER_03 (09:01):
Suddenly there's a big war, like what happened in
the 7th of October.
And it's it's all triggers.
When the 7th of Octoberhappened, you know, I went to my
psychologist, and instead oftreating myself, I was just
sitting and crying.
It was so overwhelming whathappened to us, to Israelis in
(09:26):
Israel.
Something that was so horrible,like almost like not almost like
the Holocaust, but it was assevere in our perceptions, you
know, uh people, children, womenraped, killed in such a
brutality that we didn'timagine.
And in such a surprise, youknow, our big country, our
(09:49):
strong country suddenly was onthe edge of extinction, really.
My defense system raised, youknow.
I wanted to make sure that Iwell uh protecting my family and
that I'm everything wastriggering.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
Well, I can say that I wasn't in Israel on October
7th, I was in New York.
Um, and I I think my first visitpost-October 7th was in
Passover.
So that was in April.
So it was a while afterwards.
But obviously, uh, people whodon't suffer of PTSD don't have
the same reactions.
(10:27):
But I can tell you that for meand for a lot of other Israelis
and Jews in New York, there wassomething different about our
physical reactions in the monthsfollowing.
Every time uh we heard a loudnoise, sometimes it was
fireworks, sometimes it was uh acar backfiring, we were we
(10:48):
jumped.
Um if I walk down the street andI see a white pickup truck,
which is the same kind of carthat Hamas uh terrorists drove
through the towns of Israel, I Isort of I find myself jumping a
little bit.
And I think you're absolutelyright that trauma from war or
terrorism is kind of a nationalexperience.
(11:11):
And in a way, that's comfortingbecause everyone understands it
and everyone, you're not alonein it.
But I think that probably makesit even worse for those who
suffer of actual PTSD.
You know, for me, for instance,I I served mandatory military
service, but I was not a combatsoldier.
(11:32):
I've never actually been incombat.
So I don't have that referencein my mind.
And I think for the people whodid experience that, no matter
how many years ago, um to livein a country where we deal with
it on a regular basis and it'snormalized can actually make
(11:53):
things more complicated becauseI think it's easier to miss the
signs of distress in a situationlike that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
There's recurring and constant symbolism when the
character gallery thinks he canbend a spoon, like Uri Gallery,
he might return to who he wasbefore.
What does that spoon signify?
Can we view it as a sort ofpassive hope for something magic
to happen, as you know, thatkind of inertia to wish the
(12:22):
world changes for you ratherthan you change yourself from
within?
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
You said it right.
I mean, the uh for addict casedesurvivors, uh, which is
usually goes together, most ofmost of them or most of us are
in some part of our life oraddict.
It is so hard to get out ofbeing addict, to cut down on the
(12:49):
medications.
You know, life is hard, life istriggering.
And I think that when I had toquit uh drugs, for instance, it
was I remember it sometimesworse than the PTSD.
You know, I remember I smelledweed for years after I quit, and
it was so hard for me.
(13:11):
And Geller is in such a lowplace from a good-looking ass um
officer in the army, justreturning from Japan, you know,
having a beautiful girlfriendand a and an amazing motorcycle,
and he's going to study and be alawyer.
(13:31):
Suddenly breaks down, you know,to million pieces, and he loses
everything.
He loses his family and he loseshis work and he loses his life.
And I think coming out, growingout from this low place needs a
supernatural power in ourperceptions.
(13:55):
Unless you then start doing itstep by step and with loving
people that help you and andother mechanisms, you do it
slowly.
But all of us want like a magicwand that will just, you know,
do a magic and makes us wellagain.
(14:15):
And and I think that uh Geller,that uh the younger uh audience
maybe doesn't know him, he wasin the 70s, like the biggest
thing in the world.
Like today, there are so manymentalists, you know, uh going
all over, and and and you arelike, wow, how did they do it?
(14:39):
But he was the first one, and bythe way, he was himself.
I don't know if he was anofficer, but he was in uh a
paratrooper uh in the Israeliarmy.
SPEAKER_02 (14:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
And uh yes, I think that uh watching something so
mesmerizing is something thatcan give uh can can give you
false hopes.
And this is what Geller ispracticing, false hopes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
And I think also there there's a scene in the
book where he sits around withhis army buddies and they talk
about Geller, about Urigeller,and um, you know, his his
friends seem to understand whathe doesn't, which is it's an
act.
And because he was big in the70s, by the time that they're
having this conversation, it'salmost kind of a joke.
(15:31):
Um which in turn says somethingabout the protagonist's
situation and the fact that hehe's holding on to these things
that really obviously he's notgonna be able to bend a spoon
with the power of his mind, butalso the role models that he's
picking for himself are leadinghim down the wrong paths.
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
So, Yardan, every form of long-term mental
suffering develops its ownlanguage of expression.
How do you hear the rhythm ofdepression or solitude?
And how do you translate thatinto English across language and
cultural borders?
SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
I think in this book specifically, one thing that
stood out to me was the way hesees the world, it's all very
aggressive.
Um, and the aggression is turnedagainst him.
So there's all these littlemoments where he tries to do
something, he tries tomanipulate an object, then it
doesn't work, and he feels as ifthe object is mocking him.
(16:25):
Or he looks at the sky and hethinks it's early, but because
he was stoned, he didn't noticethe passage of hours, and so
it's dark.
And he says something like, uh,the sky puts on an evening
costume.
Like the even the time of day islike a charade.
Uh the purpose of which is totrick him.
(16:47):
That kind of language it reallyillustrates the mental state
that he's in, where the world isout to get you, essentially.
And or at best, if not out toget you, the world doesn't
really care about you and is notgoing to make an effort to help
you.
Um and so I did what I do withevery book that I translate.
(17:09):
Um, you know, Ishii was sayingearlier about how he felt that
the writing process helped himunderstand his own mental
situation.
Um, it's similar for me intranslation.
I kind of just start.
I ask a few questions ahead oftime of the author, but then I
just dive in.
And typically the book teachesme how to translate it, and I
(17:32):
try to just really whatever thelanguage is doing, uh whatever
the plot is, wherever the plottakes me, I try to just go
there.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
Sometimes things just don'ttranslate naturally enough, and
you kind of have to find adifferent way in.
But for the most part, if a bookhas its own um its own lingo, I
(17:58):
will internalize it.
And if it doesn't happen rightaway, then it'll happen at some
point during the book.
Sometimes it only happens closeto the end, and then I have to
go back and redo things to sortof to to to to implement what I
learned.
Um but essentially it's sort oflike I I I it's a little gross,
(18:22):
but the metaphor that alwayscomes to my mind is it's it's
like I'm stepping into theauthor's skin and I'm kind of
like wearing it like a suit, andI'm sitting in front of the
computer and I'm writing as if Iam, in this case case, Ishii, if
he wrote his book in English.
That's that's the goal.
Sometimes it works better thanother times, but um I have to
(18:42):
inhabit in that case the stateof mind of someone who's out on
the streets uh barely survivingand feeling very much attacked
by the world.
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
Well, Ishii, what was it like to see your own
voice translated into English?
Were there moments of surpriseor or even discomfort in hearing
yourself in another language?
SPEAKER_03 (19:08):
It gives me a space, a distance between the book I
wrote when I read uh your dancework.
It was uh helping me to read mybook in objective eyes.
Okay, because suddenly it was myvoice, but it wasn't exactly my
(19:30):
words because the words changedto English.
Because I'm a sensitive person.
It kind of connected me to yourden.
I don't know how much he knowsit, but like I feel there's a
code that is now connectedbetween us because I was reading
it and I'm like, I thoughtEllie, wow, look, look what she
(19:54):
did here.
It's amazing, you know.
And and although I'm the writer,I think that uh in the English
version, Yarden is has like ahuge part, you know.
So it's suddenly a little bit uhdog is a little bit now mine and
Yarden in English, not onlymine, because she she put such a
(20:17):
beautiful voice to the book.
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
Yarden between two different translation
strategies, you know, one isdomestication and
foreignization.
I know you've also studiedtranslation, so domestication
emphasizes making the originaltext sounding more like the
target language, andforeignization is completely the
opposite by retaining theoriginal flavor, if you will, of
(20:42):
the language, syntax, idioms assuch.
And can you talk about thischoice?
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
First of all, I I just want to thank Ishii for
what he said.
And I I absolutely feel thatcord that connects us, I think
that's what happens when itworks, you know?
Um because it's like now there'sit's like there's a piece of my
brain and the piece of his brainthat are sort of like it's the
same.
Um in terms of sentencestructure, in terms of dialogue,
(21:13):
uh I I need uh an Englishlanguage reader to understand
what's going on.
And so I might include somewords of Hebrew or Arabic, which
is also widely used in Israel.
Um, I'm always gonna go forwriting that feels easily
understandable because otherwiseI think that it really just gets
in the way.
But when it comes to almosteverything else, um the culture,
(21:38):
the way people associate witheach other, um, the systems and
institutions and everything likethat, I'm gonna try to keep it
as foreignized as possible.
Um and I think to me, it's justum this story would not exist in
the same way if it were anAmerican story.
(22:00):
Yes, there's uh uh military uhin America, and yes, there are
many people who suffer of PTSD,and many of them end up on the
streets addicted to drugs.
Absolutely.
And still it's going to lookdifferent.
The systems of support aredifferent, the relationships are
different.
Uh, as we were mentioningearlier, the the way people
perceive trauma, thenormalization of it has a
(22:22):
different effect when you're inIsrael.
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
I I think in order to understand the story
properly, it has to be veryclearly set where it is set.
It ha it has to be rooted in thetime and place.
Yeah.
Um, I also believe, for me,translation, the the beauty of
it is the way that it makesplaces and people that you've
never met in your life or neverencountered in your life real.
(22:47):
Because for most of us, if we'rebeing honest, a country on the
other side of the world, we knowthat it's real in principle, but
it's not really real to us.
We have no understanding of whatthe day-to-day looks like, um,
how people communicate with eachother.
And so I think the the importantthing about translating and
(23:08):
reading works in translation isthat it brings people together.
And if you're gonna do that, itsort of has to be a little bit
foreignized.
Uh, I don't want people to beable to read this and just
pretend like it's taking placein New York or Chicago or Los
Angeles or anywhere else, whichis why I do always uh include a
(23:28):
little bit of the originallanguage where it feels natural.
And uh, you know, I might, ifthere's a name, a character name
that's particularly troublesomefor people to read or to
pronounce uh if they're not uhHebrew speakers, maybe I'll
change it a little bit.
I think people who want to readworks in translation want to do,
(23:50):
want to put in a little bit ofeffort of trying to bridge those
gaps and understand a differentculture.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Fantastic.
Well, for Ishii, what do youhope readers, especially
American readers, carry withthem after reading Dog?
SPEAKER_03 (24:05):
Dog is about uh PTSD and it's a very, very important
subject.
But I also want people tounderstand the literary quality
of the book, meaning it isimportant for me that Dog would
be read also as a literaturework, not only as a PTSD uh
(24:31):
discussion or perspective.
That's why I feel uh I'm sohappy with the work you have
done this, because it it puts itin uh such a high level of
literature and not you know justanother book which is
translated, because I read a lotof translation from English or
(24:52):
other languages to Hebrew, andsometimes it's very easy to know
it was if it was done by likeamazing translators or done like
mediocre, you know.
And I'm so so happy that youknow they did a good job because
for me it it's very importantthat people will take it in the
(25:15):
libraries, let's say, as afiction book, okay, and enjoy it
also.
Not only, but of course, whenthey finish reading, I want them
to think that what they read waswritten by someone who
experienced something like it.
(25:36):
And when they stop at the stopline in their car on the way to
work, and suddenly someone comesand asks for money, not
immediately they would think,oh, you know, I have to suffer
it, and close up the window.
And but really to see the personand to understand society is
(25:58):
very complicated, and lots ofparts of society are weak, ill
people, or mentally ill people,and they all need attention and
need yourself, and they cannotbe transparent.
And this is what usuallyhappens.
So I think dogs, like otherbooks which are written about
(26:22):
mental uh disorders, you usuallyyou try to get emphasized and to
understand the trauma and the uhillness of the protagonist.
So, from my point of view, thisis something I want the readers
to come out with.
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
Well, for Yardin, what was the most difficult
aspect of bringing this novelinto English for you?
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
Military jargon is always tricky.
Um names of units, uh types ofweaponry, uh deployment, all
that stuff uh is verysite-specific.
So while all the terms exist inEnglish, they don't always refer
to the same things.
And do you I also thought it wasimportant to adapt it a little
(27:06):
bit to a society where there'smilitary service is not
mandatory in most of the mostEnglish-speaking countries.
And so not everyone speaks thatthat sort of language fluently.
Um other than that, the biggestchallenges are always um
anything that plays around withlanguage, if it's uh jokes or
(27:29):
wordplay, double entendre, stufflike that.
Um and also um there's there's away in which uh Israelis are
very direct with each other.
And while I did say earlier thatI I I that's something that I
would definitely preserve in thetranslation because it's part of
(27:50):
the culture, sometimes it's alittle bit um it's it's a bit of
a delicate game to convey thatdirectness without it coming off
to uh a reader as rudeness.
When you're translating a bookwith a protagonist that is uh
deeply um wounded um on anemotional level and with
(28:16):
sometimes questionable morals,that's always gonna be a bit of
a challenge too, because youdon't want to sugarcoat it, but
you do want, as Ichi said, youwant readers to see through into
the heart of the person um tosee that in essence they are
someone who was deeply hurt andis just trying to figure out a
way to carry on.
(28:37):
That was easy enough to dobecause the the writing of the
original already conveyed that.
But when the word choice inEnglish also has to has to keep
in line with that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
Well, for Ishii, why do you think literature can be
one of the few safe places tospeak honestly about trauma?
SPEAKER_03 (28:59):
As a whole is a safer place to speak about
trauma because and about artstuff, any and like any art
stuff, not only drama.
That's why, especially in timeslike this, like in Israel and in
uh Gaza and in from neighboringcountries, it is so important to
(29:21):
continue to write and to havethe voices heard.
That's why I think that youknow, trying to prevent from
Israelis' uh voices in culturenow uh to be heard, it's not
very helpful at all because ourvoices are important, and
(29:41):
sometimes if you try to hearthem, you will hear different
things than what you think.
And it's it has no politicalvoice, it has an emotional
voice.
You can easily recognize thisvoice when you read about.
The dog itself, which Gela sayshe was not a Hamas dog, he was
(30:06):
not a jihad dog, he was not aJewish dog, he had no beard, he
had no colors of Hamas.
It's just a stray dog, you know.
It was happened to be in Gaza,and then he happens to be in Tel
Aviv.
And this is something veryimportant.
People, you know, when they ifthey do try to read dogs, they
(30:28):
will understand that dog is uhempathic to the injured people
of the war, not only to theIsraeli side, but to the
Palestinian side, and to uh whatwar is doing to people anywhere?
It's the same, like you know, II enjoy so much to read books
(30:49):
from Egypt or from Arabcountries and you know listen to
their voices.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
I've heard Doc is being adapted into a film right
now.
So, how involved are you, Ishii,in the process, and how do you
feel about seeing the storyreimagined on screen?
SPEAKER_03 (31:09):
Very excited.
Radricklis is a very acclaimeduh director and producer, he's
now finishing running with hisuh new movie that was uh reading
Lolita in Tehran.
When he approached me, uh it waslike so exciting.
(31:30):
And at first, you know, I justuh said, okay, let him try and
see.
But then he returned and said,Okay, he got the first uh fans
for the for making thescreenplay, and so then he had
he really bought the the rights,and it became much more uh real
(31:51):
and uh I'm very excited.
He will start handling dog whenhe finished uh his current uh
movie, which is very successfuluh internationally.
So he's like flying around anddoing a lot of uh interviews and
uh with uh with reading LolitaInterra.
(32:13):
So uh we we said we will meet inlike a week or two and start to
think about it uh exactly how todo.
But again, it's his voice.
I would not interfere with theother work, I will not interfere
with uh movie unless he asks myopinion, of course.
But I made my art and when thenwhen it transformed to something
(32:38):
which others are much moreexpert than I am, I will uh, you
know, put my head down and say,okay, do your what you're good
at, and and of course, I'm very,very excited, and I'm looking
forward to seeing Dog on the BigScreen here.
SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
Well, congratulations again.
Thank you for joining me onBeyond Words for this
conversation about Dog.
My gratitude to Ishii and Yardanfor their openness to talk about
trauma and for their creativeinspirations, and to you, my
listeners, for walking with usinto this difficult but vital
terrain of literature.
SPEAKER_03 (33:16):
So, Claire, thank you so much for having us.
Just to say that uh we wouldlove the audience to follow us,
Yordan and myself, in our uhsocial networks and my YouTube
channel.
We are now uh finishing a newnovel which uh Dan also
translated an amazing novel,which uh if you will follow us,
(33:39):
you will know more about it.
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