April 10, 2025 • 31 mins
Julie Schulz and Mike Dovidio are innovators at Avalon Healthcare Solutions, focusing on using lab data and AI to improve healthcare outcomes, particularly in managing GLP1 medications and addressing rising healthcare costs.
Key Takeaways:
- Avalon uses lab values data to help improve the quality and cost-effectiveness of care, especially in laboratory medicine and provider decision-making.
- The company addresses the financial strain of GLP1 medications (like Ozempic) on healthcare systems by developing tools to identify patients who would benefit most.
- Their approach focuses on comprehensive cardiometabolic health assessment rather than single metrics like BMI to determine appropriate candidates for GLP1s.
- Avalon aims to improve health equity by ensuring medications reach patients with the greatest need rather than just those with better resources.
- The company leverages three data pillars: medical claims, pharmacy claims, and lab values to create comprehensive healthcare insights.
Julie Schulz, VP of Product at Avalon, brings her physician background to oversee their lab values management portfolio. She focuses on using laboratory data to improve healthcare decisions, particularly in the rapidly evolving field of genetics and personalized medicine. Her approach centers on making complex medical information accessible to providers while ensuring cost-effective care.
Mike Dovidio, a pharmacist by training and Product Manager at Avalon, oversees their specialty pharmacy solution. He highlights the critical challenge of GLP1 medications, which are straining healthcare budgets to the point where some insurers are laying off staff to cover costs. The medications' expanding indications could potentially apply to over half the US population, creating an unsustainable financial situation.
Avalon's innovative approach involves looking beyond simple metrics like BMI to assess patients' cardiometabolic health through comprehensive lab testing. This allows for more personalized care decisions and helps ensure that limited healthcare resources are directed to those who need them most. Their analysis has revealed that healthier diabetic patients are three times more likely to receive GLP1 prescriptions, highlighting inequities in the current system.
About the guests
Dr. Julie Shultz is a physician executive and product leader with experience building and leading healthcare decision support, analytics, and B2C products. Specifically, she focuses on value-based care, women's health, medical device, pharma, and patient & physician engagement.
Mike Dovidio holds a PharmD from Duquesne University and a rich background in managing business operations and driving strategic initiatives. At Avalon, he oversees the Specialty Prescription product’s strategy, development, configuration, and maintenance. He brings experience integrating software to enhance clinical operations and implements solutions for specialty pharmacy services.
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At The Tech Glow Up, we humanize the startup and innovation landscape by focusing on the essential aspects of the entrepreneurial journey. Groundbreaking ideas are often ahead of their time, making resilience and perseverance vital for founders and product leaders.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092011 (00:00):
I love how you're taking data from
(00:02):
all of these different sources,looking to help solve some of
the most urgent current problemsaround GLP1s and the rising cost
of healthcare, but also makingsure that.
Access, accessibility and equityto care as as personalizing
care.
And I think the thing thateverybody's going to love from
(00:23):
this, giving doctors more timeand reducing prior
authorizations.
Nathan C Bowser (00:31):
Hello and welcome to The Glow Up
conversations with innovativeMinds.
today I'm talking with twoinnovators from Avalon
Healthcare Solutions.
We've got Julie Schultz, VP ofProduct, and Mike Divido, PharmD
Product Manager.
Julie and Mike, thank you forjoining me
Julie Schulz (00:50):
Happy to be here.
Mike Dovidio (00:51):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025 (00:53):
Awesome.
Julie, let's start with you.
Can you introduce yourself alittle bit and, tell us, what
you do, in your role at AvalonHealthcare Solution.
julie-schulz_1_01-1 (01:02):
Absolutely.
So my name is Julie VP ofproduct at Avalon.
I oversee our lab valuesmanagement portfolio where we
are taking lab values data andreally trying to help improve
both the quality and costeffectiveness of care,
especially as it pertains to.
The laboratory space and thedecisions that providers make
about labs.
(01:22):
I'm personally a physician byeducation.
I have an MD and MPH fromNorthwestern University, but I
actually never practiced.
I went directly into consultingand tech, really working to find
the solutions, both analyticaland technological that are going
to help improve healthcare.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092011 (01:40):
I love this.
You, you are not the firstperson.
I've met who has gone all theway to get, that pa to become a
doctor and then decide to usethat information in a different
way.
So I can't wait to dive in more.
And, when you talk about labvalues.
The Glow Up, audience is, isvery interested in innovation,
(02:03):
but doesn't necessarily knowhealthcare terms.
Can you describe a little bitwhat you mean by using lab
values to, to impact, the carechain?
julie-schulz_1_01-1 (02:10):
Absolutely.
So when you go to the doctor,you have your blood drawn,
they're going to do some basiclabs that test, different
biomarkers, in your system toassess your overall health.
I think we're used to some ofthe routine things, whether it's
like your lipid panel, maybeyour sugars, your Hemoglobin A1c
that helped kind of look atcardiometabolic health and
(02:32):
cardiovascular disease,diabetes.
Increasingly, we are looking,more and more at genetic, lab
tests.
So looking at both the set ofgenes that you're born with.
But also potentially the set ofgenes that are causing a tumor,
or cancer genomics.
and that is really, an area ofprecision medicine and tailored
individualized medicine that'sexploding right now.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (02:54):
Okay.
I just heard a couple thingsthat we need to come back to.
We got genetically personalizedmedicine.
I heard some hints at like theGLP1 conversation and there's
some other juicy stuff in there.
let's, turn to Mike D video.
Mike, can you share.
what you're doing at Avalon anda little bit of how you got
there.
Mike Dovidio (03:15):
Yeah, sure.
so my name is Mike, DIpharmacist by trade.
with Avalon, I am a productmanager and I oversee our
specialty pharmacy solution,which really helps.
health plans better manage theirspend in the specialty pharmacy
space.
these types of drugs aretypically not the ones that
would get dispensed at a normalretail pharmacy.
(03:35):
They're more so the infusionmeds that you would go to an
infusion center or somethinglike that for.
as a pharmacist, I started outworking at the everyone's
favorite three letter, pharmacy.
from there moved into generalmanagement where I took over, as
general manager of a pharmacy inSt.
Petersburg, Florida.
And then, moved into more of thetech space.
(03:57):
I've always been a bit of atechie and interested in,
emerging technology.
So I started with a digitalpharmacy startup and actually
launched the market in Tampa Bayas a general manager.
And that's really how I gotfamiliar with what a product
organization is and how aproduct manager operates within
a company.
And, decided to pursue that asthe secondary track of my
(04:18):
career.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_0920 (04:19):
the way you called out, this like
becoming aware of the productrole and like the product work
in innovation coming from ahealthcare background, Made me
just very curious, how familiarwould you say in healthcare
organizations is the id, is thatsort of role and place of a
(04:39):
product owner, a productinnovator?
is that something that you haveto introduce or is it generally
well adapted in that sort of,I'm coming from like a startup
perspective, so, very curiousif, those worlds treat the idea
the same way.
Mike Dovidio (04:54):
I think product manager is a pretty well-known
term in healthcare nowadays.
I would say that health insurersprobably think about, companies
like Avalon.
Not so much like innovators, butmore like vendors and the
solutions that we offer.
I think it's familiar enough inthe industry right now.
(05:15):
I don't know that if you asked ahealthcare executive what a
product manager is, if theycould give you the agile
definition of what a productmanager does.
But, I think it's well knownenough that, when a health plan
needs to reach out to Avalon forsomething like Specialty
Pharmacy or LVM services, theykind of know, this is Mike and
this is Julie.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_0920 (05:35):
Got it.
Thank you for that.
that's a great example of mysquirrel moments.
So there's a bunch ofinteresting things that both of
you have mentioned.
when I was at the HLTHconference recently, something
that was really notable, and itseems like you are working right
in this space, was that,challenges on the workforce,
improvements in innovation,comfort, and familiarity with
(05:57):
electronic health records haskind of made a little bit of a
change of moving from, like, allcare has to be in a room with a
doctor to many players.
within that, the whole ecosystemof healthcare can contribute,
insights can contribute, greatadvice, can help personalize.
Care and make it more effective.
(06:19):
this seems like, where you'reusing labs and pharma data, to
really, drive value for yourcustomers.
Can you talk more about thisproblem space that you're like
how you're approaching data labsand how you're impacting, that
care chain?
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (06:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you covered it well,just the complexity of
healthcare, but also the strainthat, a lot of providers feel,
but also, employers arestrapped, to provide coverage
for their employees.
and that can be very expensive.
especially, given the rise ofGLP1 or the ozempic types of
medications.
As all of that is comingtogether, what we do is really
(06:57):
recognize that, there's anopportunity to better support
providers, in terms of makingthe best evidence based
decisions for their patients.
I mentioned earlier thatlaboratory medicine,
particularly genetics, is justExploding.
It's impossible for physiciansto keep up with everything
that's changing, and thecomplexity of patients,
continues to explode.
And so, how can we put tools infront of them that help make the
(07:20):
best decisions for theirpatients according to the
evidence, the guidelines?
that are going to lead to thebest outcomes, and ultimately
be, good stewards of the finitehealthcare dollars that we have
to spend.
so we really take all of thatinformation and try to make it
as simple as possible, for theproviders, but also the health
(07:41):
plans to understand theirpatient population, to offer the
services and care managementtypes of programs that are most
needed by patients.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025 (07:49):
Amazing.
and Mike, you mentioned that youmight be the person, that these
vendors reach out to thesesystems and insurers.
What are the kinds of questionsthat they're bringing to you?
how do these conversations,these partnerships get started?
Mike Dovidio (08:02):
Yeah.
So I mean, typically it startswith how can you save us money?
Everybody's strapped right now.
You see it across basicallyevery industry.
but when we think aboutspecifically like GLP1s, we're
already seeing that the sort ofpot of dollars that a health
insurer has to work with is notenough to cover all of the
(08:23):
patients that A, are eligiblefor the drug based on the FDA
approval, but b, want the drug.
You know, there's a lot morepatients out there that want the
drug that may not have diabetes.
you know, even I would go as faras, say, aren't, obese by
definition of what your BMI is.
And so we are already startingto see some of these health
(08:45):
plans quite literally have tolay off their workforce because
they've just gone above andbeyond what their budget is for
their pharmacy spend.
and specifically noting thatGLP1s are a big source of,
what's sort of pulling thosedollars away.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09201 (09:01):
So if I heard correctly.
In the industry, the cost ofsupporting GLP1's for even just
the folks who deserve it or whoqualify for it medically, and if
you include the rest of thefolks who want it, is straining
that care budget to the pointwhere insurers have to lay
(09:25):
people off in order to fulfillthose insurance obligations.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2 (09:30):
Exactly.
And I would add if it's okay,you know, patients are suffering
as a result of this too, becauseif you look at, North Carolina,
for example, they initiallyoffered coverage for, weight
loss for GLP1's, but spent ahundred million dollars on it,
went completely over budget, andnow we're in a situation where
they can't cover it at all.
And so we really need to helpfind that.
(09:52):
sort of happy medium of, wherewe can provide coverage to the
patients who need it most in acost effective manner.
but unfortunately, if we leteveryone who qualifies for
GLP1's, which, given theexpanding set of indications,
could be more than half of theUS population, we would
completely, bust the budget ofour health care programs.
So we have to find, there'sreally a void right now of,
(10:15):
trying to figure out ways of,who we should be giving these,
these drugs to, given thatthey're so powerful, but also
given that we have limitedresources.
Mike Dovidio (10:24):
I think it, it's important to understand the sort
of classical thinking ofcoverage criteria from an
insurer.
In this case, it would probablybe more so the PBM standpoint,
the pharmacy benefit manager.
You know, when you think aboutthings like obesity, what is the
actual criteria that they'reusing to define obesity?
It's usually body mass index.
And so, you know, the, the sortof innovative side of, of Avalon
(10:47):
how Julie really is starting tothink about what can we do with
lab values to really level upthat thinking of what it means
to be like to, to classifysomebody as obesity.
It's really starting to use morethan just BMI.
I'm sure Julie can talk to thismore than I can, but it's using
things like, your a1c, yourblood sugars.
(11:09):
there's a variety of other labtests that get done that kind of
paint the picture, but weinternally refer to as your
cardiometabolic health thatquite honestly may not line up
to your BMI.
I mean, I can tell youpersonally speaking, my BMI is a
32.
I'm not, like, in my opinion, Ishould not have insurance
coverage for GLP1 because I'mnot diabetic and I don't really
(11:33):
need to lose weight.
I'm just, by definition of BIconsidered.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (11:37):
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up,
One of the most universalcomplaints, of patients in the
healthcare scenario is I'm beingjudged or, diagnosed on this
thing, that I don't control,that I have so little, it's just
a part of my existence.
(11:58):
And so.
The idea that Julie, and I'mgonna turn to you and be like,
tell us more, you know, isworking on these ways to really
make sure that like the way Isee this is right, instead of
just like.
Height and weight kind ofequation.
We're looking at a whole human,we're looking at like, how is
your body actually working?
(12:18):
You know, are you in optimal,condition for what you're trying
to do?
So, Julie, how does, how do you,how are you able to, it, it's
such a complex ecosystem.
how do you approach innovatingand moving the needle, with this
innovative, personalized care,with so many players?
it's kind of a two partquestion.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (12:39):
Yeah, so I'll give a little bit of
background, you know, manypatients, folks in healthcare
are accustomed to, you go todifferent specialists, you go to
an endocrinologist for yourdiabetes, you go to a
cardiologist, for yourcardiovascular problems, but
what we've increasingly learned,and what intuitively makes a lot
of sense is that all of thesedifferent organ systems really
(12:59):
interact with each other.
and that's why we're kind of nowthinking more about cardio
kidney metabolic syndrome, thatreally encompasses all of the
organ systems, and all of the,Downstream diseases that come
from, this sort of unifyingsyndrome.
And the American HeartAssociation has recently
recognized that, as, cardiokidney metabolic syndrome, as a
(13:22):
sort of unifying theme for howwe should be thinking about
treating patients.
And so that means that, doctorswho typically might not work
together need to bettercollaborate.
That means that cardiometabolicphysicians and centers of
excellence who really specializein bringing all of these things
together, are emerging.
and that means that the toolsthat we use to make clinical
(13:44):
decisions about patients need tobe more focused on this broader
holistic, combination ofdiseases.
And fortunately, lab values andbiomarkers is exactly how you
can measure and track, diseasesin this category.
And so what we've started to dois look at those lab values.
So for your hormones, your,diabetes, we can look at your
(14:06):
glucose and your hemoglobin A1c,for cardiovascular disease,
specifically A1c.
Atherosclerotic cardiovasculardisease, which causes heart
attacks, strokes.
we look at your lipid levels,but also some newer biomarkers,
that can hint at, genetic causesof cardiovascular disease, like
lipoprotein little a.
(14:26):
We also look at kidney function,liver function.
We can bring all of these thingstogether to really understand
the overall cardiometabolichealth of a patient.
that really brings together allof those different organ
systems.
And because GLP1's areeffectively cardiometabolic
drugs, now with indicationsranging from diabetes, obesity,
cardiovascular disease,obstructive sleep apnea, and
(14:50):
more are on the horizon, it'sreally important that we think
about all these diseasestogether and select patients
given limited resources usingmetrics that cover all of those
diseases.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_ (15:02):
There's this very notable tension
between.
These drugs can help a lot ofpeople.
We're learning every day.
There's more people that can behelped and we can't help all the
people with it because it's justtoo expensive or that it's
(15:23):
complicated.
It feels like the cost of thedrug is really driving a lot of
the underlying conversations.
and that feels a little backwardfrom my user first perspective.
how do you approach a problemlike that that seems so big and
maybe not in the control of ateam like yours, or even in the
(15:45):
control of the systems thatyou're working with?
I mean, is that a way that wecould
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (15:49):
Yeah, think breaking down problems in
healthcare is unique anddifferent from other industries,
especially consumer focusedindustries, because you've got
so many different players at thetable.
I think that, you know, first ofall, the way I've always
approached this as a productmanager is first, just
understanding the evidence, theguidelines.
the, clinical background, if youwill, because we always want to
(16:11):
make sure that we're doing rightby patients and following the
science.
At Avalon, we say science is ourtrue north.
Then I look at the workflow andthe different players involved
and identify those points oftension, those, points of
friction, For example, ouranalysis has shown that even
though, even though GLP1's areindicated for diabetic patients,
(16:34):
we find that the healthierdiabetic patients are three
times more likely to get aprescription for GLP1's.
And so.
By creating so much complexityin the system, creating prior
authorizations, the patientswith better resources, the
patients who go to doctors whohave more time, more staff, are
going to be the ones more likelyto get the medication.
(16:55):
So we have to come up withworkflows and tools to support,
to really change that dynamicand improve health equity, but
also to improve the outcomes.
If the drugs are going to thesicker patients, we're going to,
as a population, see bettermetrics of improvement.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092 (17:11):
You.
That was amazing.
Thank you for that.
That was like the recenteringthat I, I so needed.
So, there's so much to get intohere.
We've got the problem and likethe, the impact you know, this
value of like, how do we connectthe right people with.
The right care so that we canreally uplevel the quality of
(17:33):
care for everybody is fantasticin such a complicated system.
And you know, with such sort ofcutting edge technologies in the
space, how do you measure theimpact of the work?
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (17:46):
Mike, you want to take it or you want
me to jump in?
Mike Dovidio (17:49):
No, go ahead.
Joel.
Why don't you start us off andthen I.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (17:52):
Yeah.
So, so at Avalon, we're, we'rereally lucky that we have access
to so many different datasources.
That's, that's really oursuperpower is to be able to
bring together the cost data andthe clinical data.
And ultimately some of thatoutcomes data as well.
so at the end of the day, we're,we're not naive.
We know that we, in order for usto exist in an organization for,
for our product to take off, wehave to demonstrate some return
(18:13):
on investment.
And so I think one of our.
Powerful assets is our abilityto take all of the different
types of claims data, basicallyall of the different things that
happen in a patient's healthcarejourney, and be able to measure
what the cost of all of thatcare was, and to measure it over
a period of time, tie it to, youknow, different causes and
effects and be able to reallyshow what potential return on
(18:36):
investment could look like forhealth plans and employers.
So, that's one piece, and, andthat's kind of a very easy
measure of, of whether we've hadimpact.
but then I also look at othermetrics even looking at, so we
could, we mentioned some of thecardiometabolic indices or other
biomarkers that can measure ahealth of a population.
Certainly, we can track thosefor, for health plans or for
(18:58):
providers or for employers.
But then we can also look at.
You know, those gaps in care,those access measures, are
sicker, do we see actually, youknow, based on our
interventions, the support thatwe provided to health plans and
providers, are we seeing theneedle move?
Are we seeing more patients whoare sicker getting the drugs?
If we have race, ethnicity SOGIdata, are we seeing those gaps
(19:23):
close in terms of healthcaredisparities?
All of those things we, we tryto put into our dashboards so
that providers and health planscan see at the population level,
how things are changing, butthen dig all the way down into
the patient level and see whichpatients you know, have needs or
which patients are, are nowgetting, you know, the right,
(19:45):
the right care at the righttime.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (19:47):
Mike, I wanna let you jump in here,
but I have to just call.
Out, I heard using data to makesure equity, and access of care
for underserved populations.
What, what a fantastic likeimpact to know that you can
like, have, you know that youhave the power to move like
Bravo.
Mike Dovidio (20:07):
From my perspective, I think it, it all
starts for me with can we can weimprove patient care?
And that can come in a, in adiff a couple different kinds of
ways.
Number one obviously is cost.
Can we decrease cost for thepatient?
Number two, can we decreasepatient frustration?
And so is there opportunities toremove some of the barriers that
(20:31):
patients and providers typicallyface along this journey of
getting a GLP1?
And can we do it in a way thatis sort of automatic using, you
know, lab values?
And, and that ultimately boilsdown to like a timing aspect.
You know, I think Julie had hadsort of closed her point out
(20:52):
with, making it easier forpatients to get the right access
of care or making it easier forproviders to do the right thing.
Well, can we make it faster forpatients to get ultimately to
the care component you know, andI wanna go back and touch on
something that we actuallystarted the conversation with,
which was this idea of timecrunch and that there are
(21:12):
workforce constraints, not justfor the providers in the
community care offices, but alsofor the providers in, the health
insurance plans.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany plans I've talked to that
don't have the time to revieweverything that they should be
reviewing.
And so it really, you know,it's, it's not really something
(21:33):
that you can just sort of hiremore people for.
You have to come up with sometype of automated solution using
emerging technologies that,quite honestly, as a healthcare
system, we haven't been doing.
And but we, we have the abilityto be able to do it.
It just takes somebody to kindof pull together all pieces.
(21:56):
And that's kind of where Julieand I see Avalon fitting in some
of this is.
We have access to the labs to beable to get the lab values and
aggregate that data, and we haveaccess to the health plans to be
able to sort of push some ofthese insights back to them to
allow them to make betterdecision making on their end.
But when it really comes down toweight loss and GLP1s, again,
(22:16):
there, there's also timeconstraints on the patient.
We're talking lifestyle changes,we're talking habit changes.
It's not just, you know, I'mgonna inject myself with this
medicine.
It's like, I need to commit to ahealthy lifestyle, which
includes better eating habits,better exercise habits.
I mean, there's, there's a lotmore that goes into this than
(22:38):
just the, the sort ofmedications themselves.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (22:41):
Okay.
This is, this is lovely becausethe next question I was hoping
to ask was like, how have youlearned about your customers,
the patients that you workedwith, right?
And how has that impacted theway that you approach your
product, the way that youapproach and what you're hinting
on here is?
Right.
Even though we can surface.
Some of this data, there's likeother layers that are involved
(23:06):
in actually delivering thatoutcome that everybody's
invested in.
Can you go into some specificsabout like, how you've learned
about either, you know, theseadditional layers or how your,
your access to all of thispatient data has helped you,
direct the, the product and, andyour approach in the industry?
Mike Dovidio (23:26):
You start or want.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (23:27):
Yeah, sure, I was going to give you, I
was going to give you, sometime.
Mike Dovidio (23:31):
Julie and I have, have really started to refer to
data in the sort of threepillars.
There's your, your medical claimdata, which typically comes from
your health plan.
There's the pharmacy claim data,which typically comes from your
PBM.
And that's where your GLP1 sitis with the pbm.
And then there's the lab valuesdata, which typically sits with
(23:51):
the laboratories themselves.
And so we sort of recognizethrough conversations with
different players that we reallyshine with two out of those
three, and the one in particularlab values is an area that.
There's not a lot of otherplayers in this space who are
(24:11):
sort of aggregating lab data theway that we're and trying to
effectuate changes in care.
So, and, and I guess I'm, I'mkind of answering the reverse of
your question here.
I think what we've realized isthat you know, there's, there's
sort of unmet opportunity.
Be able to partner with, toactually effectuate something on
(24:32):
the pharmacy claims side..
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092 (24:34):
This is amazing.
Mike, the idea, right, like tolearn about.
What the market needs, where youare strong, and then how to
partner and fill in where you,you know, that is outside of
your core focus is like, youknow, innovation 1 0 1.
So like, it's like one of thosebiggest challenges.
(24:56):
Right is to understand whereyou're constrained and where you
need help and to, to have thatclarity based on all this data
you've collected.
Like, wow.
So Julie, it's time to get intoThe Glow Up part of the
conversation, right?
There's a lot of great data.
You're working in this likeimminent, like very painful of
the moment space with a lot oftools.
(25:17):
What's the, what's the glow upthat you see for Avalon and the
work that you're doing in thesix, next six months?
What are some of those thosegoals that you're looking to
really impact and actuate
julie-schulz_1_01-1 (25:32):
Absolutely.
So, as Mike mentioned you know,we have access to all this data,
which makes us unique, but Ithink we also, it's one thing to
have the data and I think we'velearned this the hard way in
healthcare, just because it's inan EMR, or just because you have
the data doesn't mean that youmake great use of it.
And so again, I'm, I alwaysapproach things clinically in
healthcare, focusing on what arethe most important outcome
(25:54):
measures, What data do we needto focus on who are the right
data scientists or, or partnersthat, that we can either hire or
bring in?
We have a fantastic team at, atAvalon that really helps us make
sense of all of thisinformation.
And and then making it, again,Going back to your last question
(26:15):
about how we learn about thecustomer, how we learn about the
problem, making sure we reallyunderstand the workflow and the
pain points of the people whoare ultimately going to be the
recipients of this data.
We're not just going around andasking, you know, physicians,
health plans, you know, tell usmore about what you think about
this, but we're actively puttingtogether prototypes or analyses
(26:36):
with the data that we have inhouse.
So to get their feedback to seehow that might change their
behavior to make them thinkabout a problem in a way that
maybe they hadn't thought aboutit before, especially since we
know a lot of them don't havethis, this, this data.
So we might be bringing insightsfor the first time.
So constantly interacting withcustomers with the insights and
(26:57):
the products that we're buildingreally helps kind of fuel that
cycle.
And, and I hope that in, in sixmonths, you know, we've actually
helped, you know, move theneedle, for our client.
We're, we're starting to workwith some health plans on GLP1s,
and I'd love to actually seesome of those metrics that we
talked about, whether that'shealth equity, Whether that's
(27:18):
hemoglobin A1c levels, whetherthat's even, it probably won't
see it in six months, but in,you know, one to two years how
has that affected costs?
How has that affected emergencyroom visits overall total, you
know, cost of care or othertypes of, of high cost of things
like like hospitalizations oramputations for example.
(27:40):
Those are things that we wouldreally want to to see change.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_0 (27:43):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much, Mike.
Kind of tagging along from yourperspective, how do you know
that the work you're doing atAvalon that, that you've made
it, that you've, that you've hitthat goal?
Mike Dovidio (27:58):
It's always challenging to know if you're
actually, you know, we're on theforefront of some of these
innovative products, so it's,it's hard to know early on if
you've actually like doneanything.
I think one of the ways that inmy personal opinion that I know
that we've, we've made it asjust in my conversations and
(28:19):
experience here.
I know that I am in a positionto really impact care when I
talk to some of the pharmacyexecutives and, you know,
explain to them like, look, thisis tactically how I think we can
reduce your PA volume, yourprior authorization volume, but
also here's the actual number ofprior auths that I think I can
(28:40):
reduce in your workload.
And can boil that down to a sortof number of full-time
employees.
And I think, I know that it'ssuccessful when I get their
reaction and they're just soexcited to have something
tangible that you know, canactually impact their teams and
(29:00):
the work that they're doing.
You know, and, and I'm, I'mquite honestly honored to be as
a pharmacist, to be in aposition to actually be able to
decrease prior authorizationsfor the industry because I can
tell you firsthand, they are notfun to deal with from a provider
perspective, from a pharmacist'sperspective, and probably most
importantly, from a patient's.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (29:20):
Yeah, if you can reduce prior
authorizations, Mike, you'regonna be my biggest hero.
Oh my goodness.
Ah, fan.
What a fantastic North star.
I mean, several fantastic NorthStars in here.
I'm having too much fun.
You two are amazing busyprofessionals.
(29:41):
So a, as we start to wrap up isthere anything that you're
looking for, do you have a CTAfor the community?
And how can folks get in touch?
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025_09 (29:51):
So I think we, we, we wanna talk to
everyone.
I think that's a key part ofinnovation is just to have as
many conversations as you can.
So don't hesitate to reach outif you have questions or wanna
continue the conversation.
or wanna get some thoughts onyour own Programs.
Really, you know, looking for,for, for all conversations and
all types of, of partners inthis journey.
I think you probably have ourcontact Information.
(30:14):
Julie.
Schultz at AvalonHCS.
com is my email, so I'd love tohear from and continue this
conversation.
Mike, how should folks get intouch with you?
Mike Dovidio (30:26):
Yeah, I'll just echo what Julie said.
I mean, we want to talk toeverybody and anybody that we
can.
So the more input we can getfrom the industry, you know,
that, that really helps us inour position to really develop a
product that's gonna work.
You know, not just somethingthat we think is a good idea,
but something that will actuallybe impactful out into the
industry.
That's ultimately what we'retrying to do is, is impact the
(30:49):
industry.
But, so yeah, as Julie said, youcan get in touch with me.
My, my email, Michael,michael.dovido at avalon
hcs.com, or if you just go toAvalon, hcs, a contact.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025 (31:01):
Amazing.
Julie and Mike.
It, it has been good to chatwith you.
I love how you're taking datafrom all of these different
sources, looking to help solvesome of the most urgent current
problems around GLP1s and therising cost of healthcare, but
also making sure that.
Access, accessibility and equityto care as as personalizing
(31:26):
care.
And I think the thing thateverybody's going to love from
this, giving doctors more timeand reducing prior
authorizations.
It has been so fantastic to talkwith you on the glow up.
Thank you.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (31:41):
Thank you.
Mike Dovidio (31:41):
Thanks Nathan
I love how you're taking data from
(00:02):
all of these different sources,looking to help solve some of
the most urgent current problemsaround GLP1s and the rising cost
of healthcare, but also makingsure that.
Access, accessibility and equityto care as as personalizing
care.
And I think the thing thateverybody's going to love from
(00:23):
this, giving doctors more timeand reducing prior
authorizations.
Nathan C Bowser (00:31):
Hello and welcome to The Glow Up
conversations with innovativeMinds.
today I'm talking with twoinnovators from Avalon
Healthcare Solutions.
We've got Julie Schultz, VP ofProduct, and Mike Divido, PharmD
Product Manager.
Julie and Mike, thank you forjoining me
Julie Schulz (00:50):
Happy to be here.
Mike Dovidio (00:51):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025 (00:53):
Awesome.
Julie, let's start with you.
Can you introduce yourself alittle bit and, tell us, what
you do, in your role at AvalonHealthcare Solution.
julie-schulz_1_01-1 (01:02):
Absolutely.
So my name is Julie VP ofproduct at Avalon.
I oversee our lab valuesmanagement portfolio where we
are taking lab values data andreally trying to help improve
both the quality and costeffectiveness of care,
especially as it pertains to.
The laboratory space and thedecisions that providers make
about labs.
(01:22):
I'm personally a physician byeducation.
I have an MD and MPH fromNorthwestern University, but I
actually never practiced.
I went directly into consultingand tech, really working to find
the solutions, both analyticaland technological that are going
to help improve healthcare.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092011 (01:40):
I love this.
You, you are not the firstperson.
I've met who has gone all theway to get, that pa to become a
doctor and then decide to usethat information in a different
way.
So I can't wait to dive in more.
And, when you talk about labvalues.
The Glow Up, audience is, isvery interested in innovation,
(02:03):
but doesn't necessarily knowhealthcare terms.
Can you describe a little bitwhat you mean by using lab
values to, to impact, the carechain?
julie-schulz_1_01-1 (02:10):
Absolutely.
So when you go to the doctor,you have your blood drawn,
they're going to do some basiclabs that test, different
biomarkers, in your system toassess your overall health.
I think we're used to some ofthe routine things, whether it's
like your lipid panel, maybeyour sugars, your Hemoglobin A1c
that helped kind of look atcardiometabolic health and
(02:32):
cardiovascular disease,diabetes.
Increasingly, we are looking,more and more at genetic, lab
tests.
So looking at both the set ofgenes that you're born with.
But also potentially the set ofgenes that are causing a tumor,
or cancer genomics.
and that is really, an area ofprecision medicine and tailored
individualized medicine that'sexploding right now.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (02:54):
Okay.
I just heard a couple thingsthat we need to come back to.
We got genetically personalizedmedicine.
I heard some hints at like theGLP1 conversation and there's
some other juicy stuff in there.
let's, turn to Mike D video.
Mike, can you share.
what you're doing at Avalon anda little bit of how you got
there.
Mike Dovidio (03:15):
Yeah, sure.
so my name is Mike, DIpharmacist by trade.
with Avalon, I am a productmanager and I oversee our
specialty pharmacy solution,which really helps.
health plans better manage theirspend in the specialty pharmacy
space.
these types of drugs aretypically not the ones that
would get dispensed at a normalretail pharmacy.
(03:35):
They're more so the infusionmeds that you would go to an
infusion center or somethinglike that for.
as a pharmacist, I started outworking at the everyone's
favorite three letter, pharmacy.
from there moved into generalmanagement where I took over, as
general manager of a pharmacy inSt.
Petersburg, Florida.
And then, moved into more of thetech space.
(03:57):
I've always been a bit of atechie and interested in,
emerging technology.
So I started with a digitalpharmacy startup and actually
launched the market in Tampa Bayas a general manager.
And that's really how I gotfamiliar with what a product
organization is and how aproduct manager operates within
a company.
And, decided to pursue that asthe secondary track of my
(04:18):
career.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_0920 (04:19):
the way you called out, this like
becoming aware of the productrole and like the product work
in innovation coming from ahealthcare background, Made me
just very curious, how familiarwould you say in healthcare
organizations is the id, is thatsort of role and place of a
(04:39):
product owner, a productinnovator?
is that something that you haveto introduce or is it generally
well adapted in that sort of,I'm coming from like a startup
perspective, so, very curiousif, those worlds treat the idea
the same way.
Mike Dovidio (04:54):
I think product manager is a pretty well-known
term in healthcare nowadays.
I would say that health insurersprobably think about, companies
like Avalon.
Not so much like innovators, butmore like vendors and the
solutions that we offer.
I think it's familiar enough inthe industry right now.
(05:15):
I don't know that if you asked ahealthcare executive what a
product manager is, if theycould give you the agile
definition of what a productmanager does.
But, I think it's well knownenough that, when a health plan
needs to reach out to Avalon forsomething like Specialty
Pharmacy or LVM services, theykind of know, this is Mike and
this is Julie.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_0920 (05:35):
Got it.
Thank you for that.
that's a great example of mysquirrel moments.
So there's a bunch ofinteresting things that both of
you have mentioned.
when I was at the HLTHconference recently, something
that was really notable, and itseems like you are working right
in this space, was that,challenges on the workforce,
improvements in innovation,comfort, and familiarity with
(05:57):
electronic health records haskind of made a little bit of a
change of moving from, like, allcare has to be in a room with a
doctor to many players.
within that, the whole ecosystemof healthcare can contribute,
insights can contribute, greatadvice, can help personalize.
Care and make it more effective.
(06:19):
this seems like, where you'reusing labs and pharma data, to
really, drive value for yourcustomers.
Can you talk more about thisproblem space that you're like
how you're approaching data labsand how you're impacting, that
care chain?
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (06:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you covered it well,just the complexity of
healthcare, but also the strainthat, a lot of providers feel,
but also, employers arestrapped, to provide coverage
for their employees.
and that can be very expensive.
especially, given the rise ofGLP1 or the ozempic types of
medications.
As all of that is comingtogether, what we do is really
(06:57):
recognize that, there's anopportunity to better support
providers, in terms of makingthe best evidence based
decisions for their patients.
I mentioned earlier thatlaboratory medicine,
particularly genetics, is justExploding.
It's impossible for physiciansto keep up with everything
that's changing, and thecomplexity of patients,
continues to explode.
And so, how can we put tools infront of them that help make the
(07:20):
best decisions for theirpatients according to the
evidence, the guidelines?
that are going to lead to thebest outcomes, and ultimately
be, good stewards of the finitehealthcare dollars that we have
to spend.
so we really take all of thatinformation and try to make it
as simple as possible, for theproviders, but also the health
(07:41):
plans to understand theirpatient population, to offer the
services and care managementtypes of programs that are most
needed by patients.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025 (07:49):
Amazing.
and Mike, you mentioned that youmight be the person, that these
vendors reach out to thesesystems and insurers.
What are the kinds of questionsthat they're bringing to you?
how do these conversations,these partnerships get started?
Mike Dovidio (08:02):
Yeah.
So I mean, typically it startswith how can you save us money?
Everybody's strapped right now.
You see it across basicallyevery industry.
but when we think aboutspecifically like GLP1s, we're
already seeing that the sort ofpot of dollars that a health
insurer has to work with is notenough to cover all of the
(08:23):
patients that A, are eligiblefor the drug based on the FDA
approval, but b, want the drug.
You know, there's a lot morepatients out there that want the
drug that may not have diabetes.
you know, even I would go as faras, say, aren't, obese by
definition of what your BMI is.
And so we are already startingto see some of these health
(08:45):
plans quite literally have tolay off their workforce because
they've just gone above andbeyond what their budget is for
their pharmacy spend.
and specifically noting thatGLP1s are a big source of,
what's sort of pulling thosedollars away.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09201 (09:01):
So if I heard correctly.
In the industry, the cost ofsupporting GLP1's for even just
the folks who deserve it or whoqualify for it medically, and if
you include the rest of thefolks who want it, is straining
that care budget to the pointwhere insurers have to lay
(09:25):
people off in order to fulfillthose insurance obligations.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2 (09:30):
Exactly.
And I would add if it's okay,you know, patients are suffering
as a result of this too, becauseif you look at, North Carolina,
for example, they initiallyoffered coverage for, weight
loss for GLP1's, but spent ahundred million dollars on it,
went completely over budget, andnow we're in a situation where
they can't cover it at all.
And so we really need to helpfind that.
(09:52):
sort of happy medium of, wherewe can provide coverage to the
patients who need it most in acost effective manner.
but unfortunately, if we leteveryone who qualifies for
GLP1's, which, given theexpanding set of indications,
could be more than half of theUS population, we would
completely, bust the budget ofour health care programs.
So we have to find, there'sreally a void right now of,
(10:15):
trying to figure out ways of,who we should be giving these,
these drugs to, given thatthey're so powerful, but also
given that we have limitedresources.
Mike Dovidio (10:24):
I think it, it's important to understand the sort
of classical thinking ofcoverage criteria from an
insurer.
In this case, it would probablybe more so the PBM standpoint,
the pharmacy benefit manager.
You know, when you think aboutthings like obesity, what is the
actual criteria that they'reusing to define obesity?
It's usually body mass index.
And so, you know, the, the sortof innovative side of, of Avalon
(10:47):
how Julie really is starting tothink about what can we do with
lab values to really level upthat thinking of what it means
to be like to, to classifysomebody as obesity.
It's really starting to use morethan just BMI.
I'm sure Julie can talk to thismore than I can, but it's using
things like, your a1c, yourblood sugars.
(11:09):
there's a variety of other labtests that get done that kind of
paint the picture, but weinternally refer to as your
cardiometabolic health thatquite honestly may not line up
to your BMI.
I mean, I can tell youpersonally speaking, my BMI is a
32.
I'm not, like, in my opinion, Ishould not have insurance
coverage for GLP1 because I'mnot diabetic and I don't really
(11:33):
need to lose weight.
I'm just, by definition of BIconsidered.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (11:37):
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up,
One of the most universalcomplaints, of patients in the
healthcare scenario is I'm beingjudged or, diagnosed on this
thing, that I don't control,that I have so little, it's just
a part of my existence.
(11:58):
And so.
The idea that Julie, and I'mgonna turn to you and be like,
tell us more, you know, isworking on these ways to really
make sure that like the way Isee this is right, instead of
just like.
Height and weight kind ofequation.
We're looking at a whole human,we're looking at like, how is
your body actually working?
(12:18):
You know, are you in optimal,condition for what you're trying
to do?
So, Julie, how does, how do you,how are you able to, it, it's
such a complex ecosystem.
how do you approach innovatingand moving the needle, with this
innovative, personalized care,with so many players?
it's kind of a two partquestion.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (12:39):
Yeah, so I'll give a little bit of
background, you know, manypatients, folks in healthcare
are accustomed to, you go todifferent specialists, you go to
an endocrinologist for yourdiabetes, you go to a
cardiologist, for yourcardiovascular problems, but
what we've increasingly learned,and what intuitively makes a lot
of sense is that all of thesedifferent organ systems really
(12:59):
interact with each other.
and that's why we're kind of nowthinking more about cardio
kidney metabolic syndrome, thatreally encompasses all of the
organ systems, and all of the,Downstream diseases that come
from, this sort of unifyingsyndrome.
And the American HeartAssociation has recently
recognized that, as, cardiokidney metabolic syndrome, as a
(13:22):
sort of unifying theme for howwe should be thinking about
treating patients.
And so that means that, doctorswho typically might not work
together need to bettercollaborate.
That means that cardiometabolicphysicians and centers of
excellence who really specializein bringing all of these things
together, are emerging.
and that means that the toolsthat we use to make clinical
(13:44):
decisions about patients need tobe more focused on this broader
holistic, combination ofdiseases.
And fortunately, lab values andbiomarkers is exactly how you
can measure and track, diseasesin this category.
And so what we've started to dois look at those lab values.
So for your hormones, your,diabetes, we can look at your
(14:06):
glucose and your hemoglobin A1c,for cardiovascular disease,
specifically A1c.
Atherosclerotic cardiovasculardisease, which causes heart
attacks, strokes.
we look at your lipid levels,but also some newer biomarkers,
that can hint at, genetic causesof cardiovascular disease, like
lipoprotein little a.
(14:26):
We also look at kidney function,liver function.
We can bring all of these thingstogether to really understand
the overall cardiometabolichealth of a patient.
that really brings together allof those different organ
systems.
And because GLP1's areeffectively cardiometabolic
drugs, now with indicationsranging from diabetes, obesity,
cardiovascular disease,obstructive sleep apnea, and
(14:50):
more are on the horizon, it'sreally important that we think
about all these diseasestogether and select patients
given limited resources usingmetrics that cover all of those
diseases.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_ (15:02):
There's this very notable tension
between.
These drugs can help a lot ofpeople.
We're learning every day.
There's more people that can behelped and we can't help all the
people with it because it's justtoo expensive or that it's
(15:23):
complicated.
It feels like the cost of thedrug is really driving a lot of
the underlying conversations.
and that feels a little backwardfrom my user first perspective.
how do you approach a problemlike that that seems so big and
maybe not in the control of ateam like yours, or even in the
(15:45):
control of the systems thatyou're working with?
I mean, is that a way that wecould
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (15:49):
Yeah, think breaking down problems in
healthcare is unique anddifferent from other industries,
especially consumer focusedindustries, because you've got
so many different players at thetable.
I think that, you know, first ofall, the way I've always
approached this as a productmanager is first, just
understanding the evidence, theguidelines.
the, clinical background, if youwill, because we always want to
(16:11):
make sure that we're doing rightby patients and following the
science.
At Avalon, we say science is ourtrue north.
Then I look at the workflow andthe different players involved
and identify those points oftension, those, points of
friction, For example, ouranalysis has shown that even
though, even though GLP1's areindicated for diabetic patients,
(16:34):
we find that the healthierdiabetic patients are three
times more likely to get aprescription for GLP1's.
And so.
By creating so much complexityin the system, creating prior
authorizations, the patientswith better resources, the
patients who go to doctors whohave more time, more staff, are
going to be the ones more likelyto get the medication.
(16:55):
So we have to come up withworkflows and tools to support,
to really change that dynamicand improve health equity, but
also to improve the outcomes.
If the drugs are going to thesicker patients, we're going to,
as a population, see bettermetrics of improvement.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092 (17:11):
You.
That was amazing.
Thank you for that.
That was like the recenteringthat I, I so needed.
So, there's so much to get intohere.
We've got the problem and likethe, the impact you know, this
value of like, how do we connectthe right people with.
The right care so that we canreally uplevel the quality of
(17:33):
care for everybody is fantasticin such a complicated system.
And you know, with such sort ofcutting edge technologies in the
space, how do you measure theimpact of the work?
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (17:46):
Mike, you want to take it or you want
me to jump in?
Mike Dovidio (17:49):
No, go ahead.
Joel.
Why don't you start us off andthen I.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (17:52):
Yeah.
So, so at Avalon, we're, we'rereally lucky that we have access
to so many different datasources.
That's, that's really oursuperpower is to be able to
bring together the cost data andthe clinical data.
And ultimately some of thatoutcomes data as well.
so at the end of the day, we're,we're not naive.
We know that we, in order for usto exist in an organization for,
for our product to take off, wehave to demonstrate some return
(18:13):
on investment.
And so I think one of our.
Powerful assets is our abilityto take all of the different
types of claims data, basicallyall of the different things that
happen in a patient's healthcarejourney, and be able to measure
what the cost of all of thatcare was, and to measure it over
a period of time, tie it to, youknow, different causes and
effects and be able to reallyshow what potential return on
(18:36):
investment could look like forhealth plans and employers.
So, that's one piece, and, andthat's kind of a very easy
measure of, of whether we've hadimpact.
but then I also look at othermetrics even looking at, so we
could, we mentioned some of thecardiometabolic indices or other
biomarkers that can measure ahealth of a population.
Certainly, we can track thosefor, for health plans or for
(18:58):
providers or for employers.
But then we can also look at.
You know, those gaps in care,those access measures, are
sicker, do we see actually, youknow, based on our
interventions, the support thatwe provided to health plans and
providers, are we seeing theneedle move?
Are we seeing more patients whoare sicker getting the drugs?
If we have race, ethnicity SOGIdata, are we seeing those gaps
(19:23):
close in terms of healthcaredisparities?
All of those things we, we tryto put into our dashboards so
that providers and health planscan see at the population level,
how things are changing, butthen dig all the way down into
the patient level and see whichpatients you know, have needs or
which patients are, are nowgetting, you know, the right,
(19:45):
the right care at the righttime.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (19:47):
Mike, I wanna let you jump in here,
but I have to just call.
Out, I heard using data to makesure equity, and access of care
for underserved populations.
What, what a fantastic likeimpact to know that you can
like, have, you know that youhave the power to move like
Bravo.
Mike Dovidio (20:07):
From my perspective, I think it, it all
starts for me with can we can weimprove patient care?
And that can come in a, in adiff a couple different kinds of
ways.
Number one obviously is cost.
Can we decrease cost for thepatient?
Number two, can we decreasepatient frustration?
And so is there opportunities toremove some of the barriers that
(20:31):
patients and providers typicallyface along this journey of
getting a GLP1?
And can we do it in a way thatis sort of automatic using, you
know, lab values?
And, and that ultimately boilsdown to like a timing aspect.
You know, I think Julie had hadsort of closed her point out
(20:52):
with, making it easier forpatients to get the right access
of care or making it easier forproviders to do the right thing.
Well, can we make it faster forpatients to get ultimately to
the care component you know, andI wanna go back and touch on
something that we actuallystarted the conversation with,
which was this idea of timecrunch and that there are
(21:12):
workforce constraints, not justfor the providers in the
community care offices, but alsofor the providers in, the health
insurance plans.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany plans I've talked to that
don't have the time to revieweverything that they should be
reviewing.
And so it really, you know,it's, it's not really something
(21:33):
that you can just sort of hiremore people for.
You have to come up with sometype of automated solution using
emerging technologies that,quite honestly, as a healthcare
system, we haven't been doing.
And but we, we have the abilityto be able to do it.
It just takes somebody to kindof pull together all pieces.
(21:56):
And that's kind of where Julieand I see Avalon fitting in some
of this is.
We have access to the labs to beable to get the lab values and
aggregate that data, and we haveaccess to the health plans to be
able to sort of push some ofthese insights back to them to
allow them to make betterdecision making on their end.
But when it really comes down toweight loss and GLP1s, again,
(22:16):
there, there's also timeconstraints on the patient.
We're talking lifestyle changes,we're talking habit changes.
It's not just, you know, I'mgonna inject myself with this
medicine.
It's like, I need to commit to ahealthy lifestyle, which
includes better eating habits,better exercise habits.
I mean, there's, there's a lotmore that goes into this than
(22:38):
just the, the sort ofmedications themselves.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (22:41):
Okay.
This is, this is lovely becausethe next question I was hoping
to ask was like, how have youlearned about your customers,
the patients that you workedwith, right?
And how has that impacted theway that you approach your
product, the way that youapproach and what you're hinting
on here is?
Right.
Even though we can surface.
Some of this data, there's likeother layers that are involved
(23:06):
in actually delivering thatoutcome that everybody's
invested in.
Can you go into some specificsabout like, how you've learned
about either, you know, theseadditional layers or how your,
your access to all of thispatient data has helped you,
direct the, the product and, andyour approach in the industry?
Mike Dovidio (23:26):
You start or want.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (23:27):
Yeah, sure, I was going to give you, I
was going to give you, sometime.
Mike Dovidio (23:31):
Julie and I have, have really started to refer to
data in the sort of threepillars.
There's your, your medical claimdata, which typically comes from
your health plan.
There's the pharmacy claim data,which typically comes from your
PBM.
And that's where your GLP1 sitis with the pbm.
And then there's the lab valuesdata, which typically sits with
(23:51):
the laboratories themselves.
And so we sort of recognizethrough conversations with
different players that we reallyshine with two out of those
three, and the one in particularlab values is an area that.
There's not a lot of otherplayers in this space who are
(24:11):
sort of aggregating lab data theway that we're and trying to
effectuate changes in care.
So, and, and I guess I'm, I'mkind of answering the reverse of
your question here.
I think what we've realized isthat you know, there's, there's
sort of unmet opportunity.
Be able to partner with, toactually effectuate something on
(24:32):
the pharmacy claims side..
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_092 (24:34):
This is amazing.
Mike, the idea, right, like tolearn about.
What the market needs, where youare strong, and then how to
partner and fill in where you,you know, that is outside of
your core focus is like, youknow, innovation 1 0 1.
So like, it's like one of thosebiggest challenges.
(24:56):
Right is to understand whereyou're constrained and where you
need help and to, to have thatclarity based on all this data
you've collected.
Like, wow.
So Julie, it's time to get intoThe Glow Up part of the
conversation, right?
There's a lot of great data.
You're working in this likeimminent, like very painful of
the moment space with a lot oftools.
(25:17):
What's the, what's the glow upthat you see for Avalon and the
work that you're doing in thesix, next six months?
What are some of those thosegoals that you're looking to
really impact and actuate
julie-schulz_1_01-1 (25:32):
Absolutely.
So, as Mike mentioned you know,we have access to all this data,
which makes us unique, but Ithink we also, it's one thing to
have the data and I think we'velearned this the hard way in
healthcare, just because it's inan EMR, or just because you have
the data doesn't mean that youmake great use of it.
And so again, I'm, I alwaysapproach things clinically in
healthcare, focusing on what arethe most important outcome
(25:54):
measures, What data do we needto focus on who are the right
data scientists or, or partnersthat, that we can either hire or
bring in?
We have a fantastic team at, atAvalon that really helps us make
sense of all of thisinformation.
And and then making it, again,Going back to your last question
(26:15):
about how we learn about thecustomer, how we learn about the
problem, making sure we reallyunderstand the workflow and the
pain points of the people whoare ultimately going to be the
recipients of this data.
We're not just going around andasking, you know, physicians,
health plans, you know, tell usmore about what you think about
this, but we're actively puttingtogether prototypes or analyses
(26:36):
with the data that we have inhouse.
So to get their feedback to seehow that might change their
behavior to make them thinkabout a problem in a way that
maybe they hadn't thought aboutit before, especially since we
know a lot of them don't havethis, this, this data.
So we might be bringing insightsfor the first time.
So constantly interacting withcustomers with the insights and
(26:57):
the products that we're buildingreally helps kind of fuel that
cycle.
And, and I hope that in, in sixmonths, you know, we've actually
helped, you know, move theneedle, for our client.
We're, we're starting to workwith some health plans on GLP1s,
and I'd love to actually seesome of those metrics that we
talked about, whether that'shealth equity, Whether that's
(27:18):
hemoglobin A1c levels, whetherthat's even, it probably won't
see it in six months, but in,you know, one to two years how
has that affected costs?
How has that affected emergencyroom visits overall total, you
know, cost of care or othertypes of, of high cost of things
like like hospitalizations oramputations for example.
(27:40):
Those are things that we wouldreally want to to see change.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_0 (27:43):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much, Mike.
Kind of tagging along from yourperspective, how do you know
that the work you're doing atAvalon that, that you've made
it, that you've, that you've hitthat goal?
Mike Dovidio (27:58):
It's always challenging to know if you're
actually, you know, we're on theforefront of some of these
innovative products, so it's,it's hard to know early on if
you've actually like doneanything.
I think one of the ways that inmy personal opinion that I know
that we've, we've made it asjust in my conversations and
(28:19):
experience here.
I know that I am in a positionto really impact care when I
talk to some of the pharmacyexecutives and, you know,
explain to them like, look, thisis tactically how I think we can
reduce your PA volume, yourprior authorization volume, but
also here's the actual number ofprior auths that I think I can
(28:40):
reduce in your workload.
And can boil that down to a sortof number of full-time
employees.
And I think, I know that it'ssuccessful when I get their
reaction and they're just soexcited to have something
tangible that you know, canactually impact their teams and
(29:00):
the work that they're doing.
You know, and, and I'm, I'mquite honestly honored to be as
a pharmacist, to be in aposition to actually be able to
decrease prior authorizationsfor the industry because I can
tell you firsthand, they are notfun to deal with from a provider
perspective, from a pharmacist'sperspective, and probably most
importantly, from a patient's.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025_09 (29:20):
Yeah, if you can reduce prior
authorizations, Mike, you'regonna be my biggest hero.
Oh my goodness.
Ah, fan.
What a fantastic North star.
I mean, several fantastic NorthStars in here.
I'm having too much fun.
You two are amazing busyprofessionals.
(29:41):
So a, as we start to wrap up isthere anything that you're
looking for, do you have a CTAfor the community?
And how can folks get in touch?
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025_09 (29:51):
So I think we, we, we wanna talk to
everyone.
I think that's a key part ofinnovation is just to have as
many conversations as you can.
So don't hesitate to reach outif you have questions or wanna
continue the conversation.
or wanna get some thoughts onyour own Programs.
Really, you know, looking for,for, for all conversations and
all types of, of partners inthis journey.
I think you probably have ourcontact Information.
(30:14):
Julie.
Schultz at AvalonHCS.
com is my email, so I'd love tohear from and continue this
conversation.
Mike, how should folks get intouch with you?
Mike Dovidio (30:26):
Yeah, I'll just echo what Julie said.
I mean, we want to talk toeverybody and anybody that we
can.
So the more input we can getfrom the industry, you know,
that, that really helps us inour position to really develop a
product that's gonna work.
You know, not just somethingthat we think is a good idea,
but something that will actuallybe impactful out into the
industry.
That's ultimately what we'retrying to do is, is impact the
(30:49):
industry.
But, so yeah, as Julie said, youcan get in touch with me.
My, my email, Michael,michael.dovido at avalon
hcs.com, or if you just go toAvalon, hcs, a contact.
nathan-c-_2_01-17-2025 (31:01):
Amazing.
Julie and Mike.
It, it has been good to chatwith you.
I love how you're taking datafrom all of these different
sources, looking to help solvesome of the most urgent current
problems around GLP1s and therising cost of healthcare, but
also making sure that.
Access, accessibility and equityto care as as personalizing
(31:26):
care.
And I think the thing thateverybody's going to love from
this, giving doctors more timeand reducing prior
authorizations.
It has been so fantastic to talkwith you on the glow up.
Thank you.
julie-schulz_1_01-17-2025 (31:41):
Thank you.
Mike Dovidio (31:41):
Thanks Nathan
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