January 30, 2025 • 28 mins
Dr. Colin Banas is the Chief Medical Officer at DrFirst, a company focused on end-to-end medication management. Here's a summary of the key points from his interview:
Key Takeaways:
- DrFirst aims to get patients on therapy and keep them on therapy through frictionless medication management processes.
- The company uses data and AI to personalize patient experiences and improve medication adherence.
- DrFirst is focusing on optimizing the specialty medication experience, addressing challenges in prior authorization and transparency.
- Dr. Banas emphasizes the importance of augmented intelligence to assist clinicians and tackle administrative burdens.
- The company touches a quarter of all prescriptions in the United States, providing significant scale for impact.
Dr. Banas's journey into healthcare technology began when he co-founded the Office of Clinical Transformation at his previous hospital, aiming to improve the electronic medical record system. He later joined DrFirst to have a broader impact on medication management.
DrFirst uses data to measure the success of their interventions, tracking metrics such as adherence rates, time savings for healthcare providers, and improvements in patient safety. They're currently focused on addressing the growing complexity of specialty medications.
Looking ahead, Dr. Banas envisions using augmented intelligence to improve transparency and reduce administrative burdens in medication management, particularly for specialty medications.
About Dr. Colin Banas ----
Colin is an Internal Medicine Hospitalist and former Chief Medical Information Officer for VCU Health System in Richmond, Virginia. He has testified before the U.S. Senate and the Office of the National Coordinator (ONC) on health IT and the Meaningful Use program, and is a former Health IT Fellow for the ONC.
His interests center on the role of big data and analytics on patient outcomes and on novel forms of clinical decision support that are outside the realm of traditional rules and alerts, including real-time dashboarding and intuitive usability designs. He also helped spearhead the VCU effort to participate in the Open Notes initiative, where patients have access to their clinical documentation in real time.
In 2017, Colin received the HIMSS-AMDIS award for Physician Executive of the Year from his peers. He earned a bachelor’s degree from University of Virginia, his M.D. from Eastern Virginia Medical School, and a master’s in Healthcare Administration from Virginia Commonwealth University.
A "glow up" signifies a positive transformation, reflecting the journey of becoming a better, more successful version of oneself.
At The Tech Glow Up, we humanize the startup and innovation landscape by focusing on the essential aspects of the entrepreneurial journey. Groundbreaking ideas are often ahead of their time, making resilience and perseverance vital for founders and product leaders.
In our podcast, we engage with innovators to discuss their transformative ideas, the challenges they face, and how they create value for future success.
If you're a founder or product leader seeking your own glow up, or a seasoned entrepreneur with stories to share, we invite you to join our guest list via this link.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nathan C (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to the glow up.
(00:03):
Today I'm talking with Dr.
Colin Banas of DrFirst.
Dr.
Colin, it's so great to see youtoday.
Thanks for joining us.
Dr. Colin Banas (00:11):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Nathan C (00:12):
Amazing.
So to kick us off, can you tellus a little bit about who you
are and what you do at DrFirst?
Dr. Colin Banas (00:21):
Oh, wow.
so as you mentioned, I am thechief medical officer for
DrFirst.
So, most importantly, I'm aninternal medicine physician by
training.
So for close to 20 years, I wasactually a practicing
hospitalist as well as the chiefmedical information officer for
a large academic health systemin the Mid Atlantic.
did that for quite some time, asI mentioned, and then about five
(00:43):
years ago, I had an opportunityarise where I could join DrFirst
as their Chief Medical Officer,which is a really fun role.
You know, it's actually prettyinteresting coming from the
academic, you know, clinicalside over to the vendor space or
the administrative businessside.
But I get to do a little bit ofeverything, as Chief Medical
(01:03):
Officer, so there's a lot ofsubject matter expertise that
I'm able to lend to thetechnical teams.
I'm often doing a lot ofspeaking engagements, like we're
doing here, a lot of speaking,podcast webinars, things like
that, especially at trade shows,fireside chats and things like
that.
And then, you know, there's afair amount of sales support
too, right?
(01:23):
convincing my other clinical,brethren that the solutions that
DrFirst is able to provide inthe medication management space
are actually top notch and thatyou're missing out if you're not
using us.
Nathan C (01:34):
As a marketer, I'm very curious about how you get,
to those conversations.
But before, we jump into thetactics of it, I'm hoping you
can just, dive into the problemspace that you're working on
over at DrFirst?
what's that core problem thatyou're trying to solve for
these, former colleagues ofyours?
Dr. Colin Banas (01:53):
Yeah.
The core competency of thecompany is end to end medication
management.
So if you think about thelifecycle of a prescription from
showing up at a doctor's officeor provider's office to them
making the prescribing decisionto you getting that prescription
filled and ultimately staying ontherapy and then monitoring that
(02:16):
success, that journey Dr.
First has a piece of everysingle step.
And so the problem space, if Ihad to distill it down is,
Getting patients on and keepingthem on therapy.
That is the ultimate goal.
That is where we are successful.
That is where patients willsucceed.
And of course, as a clinicianmyself, I want to make this
(02:36):
process, as frictionless and,almost as joyful as it can
possibly be.
so it's a tightrope, right?
I'm walking regulatoryrequirements.
But I'm also trying to improvethe process, but ultimately the
core of your question, getting apatient on therapy and keeping
them on therapy.
Nathan C (02:55):
Are you able to describe a way that DrFirst
makes managing medicationsdelightful?
As a patient, you know, I haveADHD and ADHD medications are
notoriously hard to manage froma patient's perspective.
How does DrFirst, make thisholistic view and success, more
(03:18):
enjoyable, delightful.
Dr. Colin Banas (03:20):
Yeah.
So from the providerperspective, there are, it's
little things, it's littlethings that remove the friction
from the process.
It's surfacing information anddata at the right moment so that
I know These are yourprescriptions, this is what has
not worked, this is what hasworked.
it's keeping me withinregulatory, requirements without
(03:41):
it making me chase extra clicksor extra screens.
it's even convenience.
You know, one of the cool thingsthat I get to work on is our
mobile prescribing.
So, I can be at my kid's soccergame, you could contact me and
say, I'm actually running low,or I'm about to, you know, enter
the weekend.
And my supply of something thatis critical is about to run out.
(04:04):
I can actually use my mobiledevice and make that
prescription without everpicking up a phone, without ever
logging back into a laptop or,you know, VPN back into the
company, and also you on thepatient side are going to get
notified.
Dr.
Banas has just taken action.
Click here to learn about it.
If we can line you up withcoupons or savings event, visit
(04:26):
We'll do that too.
And so, it's little things alongthe way to remove friction that
actually make this, enjoyable.
At least that's the vision andthat's the hope.
Nathan C (04:37):
So, we were introduced around the HLTH event, just
recently in Vegas.
One of the things that I noticedat the HLTH event was this idea
that, Doctors?
Payers, insurance agencies areall really feeling the pinch of
there's not enough people to doall of the important health care
(04:58):
work that we need to do.
And in the past, there seemed tobe this, model that the only
place you could get care orconnect with a doctor was in the
doctor's office.
And there were a number ofreasons for this.
It might be that only, you know,insurance companies only pay for
doctor's visits.
It might be that doctors onlyprefer face to face and there,
(05:19):
there's all these differences.
but at HLTH what I reallystarted to hear was there is
such an urgent need to addressgaps in the system or just to
address health care needs that.
Everybody is interested inlooking at technology, and
especially AI, to see howtechnology can improve the care,
(05:41):
can reach customers where theyare, can, you know, be more real
time, can be more communicative,can be more activated.
And it almost seemed like therewas this permission that people
got, and there was this,Ownership, that each part of the
supply chain was like, hey,we've got data, we want to
(06:01):
contribute.
And what I'm hearing from you isthat you have data on this whole
experience within medicalapplication management, and
you're using that information tosupply context and data and even
like regulatory, you know, needsin real time.
Dr. Colin Banas (06:21):
I would have been happy to talk about, how we
use
Nathan C (06:24):
Okay, let's do it.
So, how do you use, how do youactivate, you know, what excites
you about the data that you'reable to contribute into this
conversation?
And, how does DrFirst sort ofstand out in the way that you do
that?
Dr. Colin Banas (06:37):
yeah, you know, there's a lot of quotes that
come to mind when you're hearingthe excitement around this, you
know, one of which is"you can'tmanage what you can't measure."
And, the other fun one, Is"inGod we trust everyone else must
bring data." and I think that'strue, right?
And, at Dr first, as youmentioned, we do have a fair
amount of data and we use thatdata to curate our solutions.
(07:01):
one of the initiatives that weare taking on right now relates
to the personalization of someof those messages that we were
able to send our patients onbehalf of the doctors.
So the more I understand aboutyou as a patient.
Your social determinants ofhealth, your zip code, your
prior medication history, andyour medication list.
(07:22):
The better I can tailor thatmessage directly to you,
personalized to you, to provideyou the appropriate education,
the appropriate, activation.
You used a great word there,right?
Nathan C (07:34):
So, The Glow Up is very much a business podcast,
and, you know, I love betteruser experiences as a path to
great, products.
how do you measure the impact,of the work that you're doing
within medication management?
Especially when, like you said,there are many players, many
stakeholders, and it is a bit ofa journey where you have to,
(07:55):
get.
There's a lot of challenges, inthis space.
You wouldn't be a tool if thereweren't.
But, how do you view and measureyour success in this space?
Dr. Colin Banas (08:05):
Yeah, it all comes down to data.
So on the patient engagementside, adherence rates, right?
we vigorously measure ourinterventions and whether or not
they had an impact on thatpatient, picking up that
medication and that patientstaying on that medication.
and then we figure out.
With data, why was thatsuccessful?
(08:26):
is it because we educated them?
Is it because we provided a copay assistance program face up?
Was it because we were able tolink them to other resources
such as specialty medication hubservices or things like that?
On the hospital side or on theprovider side, you can take
something as routine asmedication reconciliation.
(08:48):
So for your listeners, everytime you go to the doctor,
they're supposed to Interviewyou, figure out what medications
you are currently taking, andthen make decisions about what
to continue, what to stop, whatto change.
And then on the way out, handyou a list or, educate you and
say, This is what you should bedoing going forward.
This is a miniature version ofyour care plan.
(09:09):
Well, we have tools that makethat process more efficient.
We have tools that bring in moredata to that interview process.
We have AI tools that can bringthat data over in such a way
that the electronic record isable to consume it without
people re keying or re typing.
So in that instance, we'remeasuring clicks and keystrokes.
and time savings.
(09:30):
And then I turn around and I goback to the health system and I
said, did you know after weimplemented, after you
implemented our tool, yourpharmacy technicians were able
to see 50 percent more patientsduring the shift, or your
serious safety event raterelated to medication error went
down 25%.
And these are numbers that I'mmaking up.
These are real world numbersthat we are getting from our
(09:53):
partner clients.
and actually publishing on inpeer reviewed journals.
So, it all comes down to data,it all comes down to
measurement, and it also comesin engaging the stakeholder in
saying, what is important toyou, so that I know what the
most appropriate thing is thatwe can be measuring.
Nathan C (10:10):
50 percent more visits, 50 percent more patients
seen is a pretty dramatic, statthat speaks both to the
operational efficiencies, right,like what the team can do, but
when we're talking about patientoutcomes, that's 50 percent more
patients, seen that day, whichis not insignificant.
(10:34):
Has there been, a data point ora learning that you've had in
your time at Dr.
First that has either changed,the way you, you know, that,
that really impacted, theroadmap of the product, or that
changed your understanding, ofthose, continuation of care
(10:55):
dynamics in a notable way.
Dr. Colin Banas (10:57):
I'll give you one from an industry
perspective, it's the growth ofspecialty medications.
It is, we're seeing anexponential growth in these
highly specialized and highlyeffective And so, in order to be
successful as a medicationmanagement company, you need to
go to, you need to skate towhere the puck is headed, and
(11:17):
the puck is headed towardsspecialty.
And so, we are very deep intooptimizing the specialty
experience.
and that comes with a lot of,vagaries.
you know, not all specialtymedications are the same.
Some of them are handled by yourpharmacy benefit.
Some of them are handled by yourmedical benefit.
some of them require delivery toa doctor or to home for you to
(11:41):
do the injection.
Some of them you have to go toan infusion center.
You know, it is a verycomplicated thing to navigate.
and for a company thatspecializes in this, no pun
intended, imagine how hard it isto keep up as a clinician, in
terms of what are the rules,what is the sequence I need to
go through here.
And so, that's what we're, youknow, you, you mentioned what
(12:03):
data point altered the roadmap.
It is the growth of specialty,specifically sent us, DrFirst,
on a trajectory to solve And tomake that experience joyful as
well, as much as one can do.
And so that means conqueringprior authorization.
That means conqueringtransparency, not only for the
clinician, but also for thepatient.
(12:25):
you have better insight into thestatus of your pizza.
delivery than you do inunderstanding where you stand on
your specialty medication,right?
That's insane.
I got, you know, the pizza is inthe oven.
The pizza has been picked up.
The pizza's on the way.
I order, you know, one of thesenew specialty medications for a
patient, and I might not knowfor days that it requires a
(12:47):
prior auth or that the priorauth has been denied.
there's all sorts ofopportunities that we can
conquer together.
to make this, much more,appropriate, right?
I don't want patients delayedtherapy because of bureaucracy.
And so this area is rife withopportunity.
And it lends itself very well toAI and automation.
Nathan C (13:10):
I just have to give that a moment that, right, like,
we shouldn't be impacting carewith bureaucracy, I think is a
fantastic, mission for anybodywho's trying to optimize, that
healthcare space.
So the show is called The GlowUp, right?
And a glow up is a notableimprovement, a breakthrough of
(13:32):
sorts.
I'm curious, what sort of glowup do you envision for your work
at DrFirst in the next sixmonths?
What are the big goals andmilestones you're working on
right now?
Dr. Colin Banas (13:45):
It is transparency, through Augmented
intelligence.
And I specifically use the wordaugmented intelligence.
I'm actually, I hate the termartificial intelligence.
I find it to be kind of offputting and a little bit almost
creepy.
Whereas the real vision for AIis to be this assistant.
(14:05):
to sit at my shoulder, if youwill, and help me do the work,
so that I can be a betterclinician.
And right now, a lot of what AIis able to take on and what
clinicians are comfortable withis tackling the administrative
burden.
And so I would say, The next sixmonths to 12 months in the
(14:27):
specialty space, we are glowingup in the application of AI in
the administrative burden as itrelates to medication management
and specialty medications.
and to me, that is superexciting because the trajectory
of, of this augmentedintelligence tools.
is going through the roof rightnow, as is the rate of the use
(14:48):
of specialty medications, as,and the frustration with the
process is also going up.
So again, you're back to myearlier comment, there is so
much opportunity here for us inthe next six months that we are
avidly jumping on here at Dr.
First.
Nathan C (15:04):
I love how Specialty medication is kind of a
challenge because it's taking,if I'm understanding correctly,
like in a lot of cases, hypertargeted solutions for an
individual, right?
Some cancer treatments are likeTargeted to your specific genes,
if I understand correctly,right?
(15:25):
And so, how do you both scalethe production of these complex,
personalized things, but thenalso how do you scale the
communication, delivery,education of this, these very
complex and and so forth?
Potentially, each one isslightly different.
(15:47):
Each one is targeted and unique.
so there's this push pull of AIgiving you the opportunity to
personalize, and thatpersonalization creating a whole
lot of complexity, but then youcan use the AI, to build it out.
when, People hear AI will useyour data for better
experiences.
(16:08):
I think a lot of them also hearWait, what are you doing with my
data?
so the question is, how do youbalance innovation with AI plus,
regulatory concerns about dataas well as just, your patients
and consumers concerns aboutdata?
how do you balance all of those,concerns in innovation?
Dr. Colin Banas (16:30):
it's about autonomy.
It's about providing patients alevel of autonomy in regards to
their data.
So a great example is for ourpatient engagement solution.
You have the ability to opt outat any time, and it's as simple
as, typing the word stop.
we make it just as easy to getout.
As it is to get in, similarlywith other data solutions,
(16:52):
patients have to give consent tothe providers and then back to
us in order for us to accessthat data on behalf of the
provider.
you're right, and I think thisis part of the reason the
interoperability journey is alittle slower than it has been
for those other industries thatI rattled off.
we need to tread carefully.
This cannot be the wild, wildwest when it comes to patient
(17:16):
data sort of flying all over theether.
It has to ultimately remain inthe control of the patient.
there are very smart peopleworking on this.
being able to, opt in forcertain use case scenarios, but
opt out for others, takes time.
You know, you might be verycomfortable with your anonymized
data.
(17:36):
Going to a cancer registrybecause it's going to further
the cancer, effort.
But you might not want thepharmacist down the street to
know your full medical historybecause it's none of their
business, you know, in yourmind.
You know, there are levels andguardrails that are being put in
place to give that autonomy backto the patient, if you will.
Nathan C (17:56):
I heard so much at the HLTH event, this idea of Start
with choice, right?
Like, most of what patients wantis a say in their care.
And, you know, if you givepeople a choice, they typically
will make the decisions thatthey, feel are best for them.
(18:17):
Dr.
Collin, I'm a little remiss.
I usually love to likeunderstand, the spark, the
beginning of somebody's journeyand innovation, and I feel like
I skipped over this with you alittle bit.
What was the moment that, tookyour long standing, academic and
clinical practice and got youinterested in the business and
technology side of it.
(18:38):
how did your journey on thisinnovation side, begin?
Dr. Colin Banas (18:42):
Yeah, you know, with a lot of Genesis stories,
there's always a sensei or amentor.
very early on in my hospitalistcareer, I was, I don't want to
use the word discontent, but Iwasn't necessarily fulfilled.
one of the things I did while Iwas a full time attending
hospitalist, was pursuing myMaster's of Health
(19:03):
Administration.
I figured, you know, can nevergo wrong getting more education.
Let me understand how hospitalswork.
Let me understand the businessof medicine.
And actually from there, Istarted to get other
opportunities within the fourwalls of the hospital.
For a while, I was the medicaldirector for care coordination,
and I was in charge ofutilization management.
(19:24):
But the real turning point camein about 2005, 2006, when my
really good friend, andultimately my mentor, Who now
works as the CHIO at EmoryUniversity, Alistair Erskine.
he and I started what we calledthe Office of Clinical
Transformation.
And the reason we did so isbecause our health system had an
(19:45):
electronic medical record since1999.
They were actually ahead of thecurve.
They had a full blown instanceof Cerner.
But there was no clinical inputinto it.
It was just sort of like ploppedupon the clinicians and there
were no enhancements being made.
The upgrades were falling behindand you know, it just so
(20:06):
happened that he and I wereinterested in technology.
and we said, you know what, Wecan do better.
And so we actually started aninformatics program at the
university.
and then ultimately that, youknow, the leadership of that
fell to me.
I did that for another 10 plusyears and then it started to get
stale.
And so there's actually twoGenesis stories here, right?
(20:27):
There is, how did I get intoinformatics in the first place?
Right place, right time,interest, and a good mentor.
And then, you know, about 2019,what else is out there?
What's the next thing I can bedoing?
You know, 17, 18 years is a longtime to be at one place.
What's the next journey?
(20:47):
How can I take all of thisexperience, from academic and
administrative medicine andapply it somewhere else that
might have an even biggerimpact?
our solutions touch, a quarterof all of the prescriptions in
the United States.
So in one way or another, we aretouching a quarter of the
prescriptions that are outthere.
(21:09):
That is scale.
You mentioned scale before.
intervening at that scale has areal opportunity to move the
needle.
And that's what keeps me excitedhere at DrFirst.
Nathan C (21:20):
I am so glad I went back and asked that.
Thank you.
that's so amazing.
I believe this is like the 15thepisode of The Glow Up that
we've recorded, and I amsurprised, and so thankful that
I believe this is the first timesomebody's mentioned mentorship,
(21:42):
specifically as, one of thosejumping off points, and I could
not Agree more, right?
I'm in the tech space.
my model for this, is when youare a subject matter expert and
you also learn the businessside, that's when you become
really dangerous because you seethe details, but you also know
how it fits in the overallecosystem.
(22:06):
And for you to just sort ofnaturally be like, the
administration side seems like agood thing to understand.
I applaud that curiosity, andthen, you know, that a mentor
could not only sort of bring youinto a new fields, but then
eventually place you as aleader, in that space, within
just a couple of years.
It's, it's always impressivehow, like, a passion project and
(22:29):
a little bit of support, can,Belief, can be so amazing, for
sparking new directions.
Dr.
Collin, you're working on somepretty big things and being able
to, you know, touching a quarterof anything at the scale of
healthcare is such an amazing,feat in itself, I'm curious how
you think about success, and howwill you know, that your work to
(22:53):
make data, informatics, customerexperience, user experiences
better, how will you know thatyou've made it or succeeded on
this mission,
Dr. Colin Banas (23:01):
Oh man, how do you spike the football?
you know, in healthcare, I'm notsure that you ever really can.
obviously it's important to setgoals along the way so that you
can celebrate success, that youcan re evaluate, re adjust, your
roadmap going forward.
I will say, you know, from aselfish point of view, I would
love for DrFirst to be ahousehold name.
(23:24):
I really, really would.
and we're getting there.
Believe me, in my five years,actually almost six years now of
being with the company, I thinkour recognition has grown,
substantially.
So that is, that is, you know,that, that, that's a metric of
success and that's a little bitof, of ego, but it's still
important, because I trulybelieve, in the, work that we're
(23:45):
doing in the success storiesthat we're able to make on
behalf of our clinicians andpatients.
I will say that along the way,the way to measure success, and
again, incremental, would be inthings like satisfaction.
You know, Let me interview theclinicians using our solutions.
let me have metrics aroundcustomer satisfaction.
(24:08):
Let me have metrics aroundpatient satisfaction.
But ultimately, you know, youwant to set the bar very high.
And it would be, you know, amoonshot goal would be 100
percent of appropriateprescriptions are being 100
percent adhered to whenappropriate.
you know, it's things like thatwhere you really need to think,
(24:29):
about what, what do we as anindustry want to measure as
success, and how can my littlepiece of the care journey
contribute to that?
And so there's lots of thingsthat we could be measuring along
the way, but, it's gotta beincremental and it's gotta be
data driven.
Nathan C (24:47):
You said some things that I think are really worth,
like, turning back to.
One, when you're working onsomething as big as a quarter of
all prescriptions in the U.
S., you have to set your ownrules.
Goals and, you know, definitionsof success.
You cannot, like, look at anecosystem that big and distill
(25:11):
out, did we do it or not?
Without, you know, putting yourown values and markers along the
way, right?
And so, I think, you know,trying to solve a very big
problem is really about checkingoff those smaller boxes over and
over again, until you reach,that infinite, impossible, 100%.
(25:31):
Especially in a thing likehealthcare, like, there is no
final goal.
It's always going to beinnovating.
It's always going to be growing.
And, to your larger goal, I haveto say, there is a ton of
opportunity to become thehousehold name for medication
management that's based ondelight and value received,
(25:54):
rather than the typical, We'llsave you something on your
prescriptions and Maybe thatwhole experience of saving money
on your prescriptions is totallyawful.
So I think there's, there's alot of opportunity to become a
beloved household name, in this,medication management space
Dr. Colin Banas (26:15):
I think if you build it correctly, they will
come.
And that's, we are on a journey.
We are marching
Nathan C (26:20):
I love it.
So on this journey, one of thethings that we always make time
for is just to ask, is thereanything that you're looking
for, hoping to engage peoplearound?
sometimes this is like networks.
you mentioned things that you'relooking to learn.
do you have a call to action or,anything that you're hoping,
anybody that you're hoping toconnect with?
Dr. Colin Banas (26:39):
I'm always eager to learn.
you probably could tell.
I stayed in school a long timeand then kept, kept, kept on
going.
This is a complicated ecosystem,believe it or not.
Healthcare, particularlyhealthcare in our country, has a
lot of players and a lot ofplayers behind the scenes that,
quite frankly, a lot of us don'tfully understand.
(27:02):
And so, if nothing else, I'malways looking to connect.
with a way to further myeducation and then to pass that
on.
You know, I view one of my rolesin the company is also as an
educator.
I can educate on the clinicianexperience.
You know, we're all patients atone time or another can educate
on that.
And then, I do feel uniquelypositioned in understanding the
(27:25):
regulatory space and theadministrative space.
And so, I'm always looking toconnect with leaders and thought
leadership.
in those, particular areas aswell.
So call to action, you know,connect with me and help me
learn more because I am, avidfor it.
Nathan C (27:40):
Amazing.
Well, Dr.
Colin Banas of DrFirst.
It has been such a delight forme to learn with you.
this space of, innovation withinthese, traditional and, gigantic
industries of healthcare,pharmacy, medication management,
is such a delight for me.
(28:01):
Juicy and multifaceted problemto be solving, and it warms my
heart over here at AwesomeFuture to hear you talking so
much about delightfulexperiences, AI, and data to
empower clinicians.
to build more human connections,around healthcare conversations,
(28:21):
instead of filling out the sameform seven times at each visit.
amazing work.
Thank you for sharing yourjourney and innovation with us
on the Glow Up
Dr. Colin Banas (28:30):
oh, thank you for having me.
Hello, and welcome to the glow up.
(00:03):
Today I'm talking with Dr.
Colin Banas of DrFirst.
Dr.
Colin, it's so great to see youtoday.
Thanks for joining us.
Dr. Colin Banas (00:11):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Nathan C (00:12):
Amazing.
So to kick us off, can you tellus a little bit about who you
are and what you do at DrFirst?
Dr. Colin Banas (00:21):
Oh, wow.
so as you mentioned, I am thechief medical officer for
DrFirst.
So, most importantly, I'm aninternal medicine physician by
training.
So for close to 20 years, I wasactually a practicing
hospitalist as well as the chiefmedical information officer for
a large academic health systemin the Mid Atlantic.
did that for quite some time, asI mentioned, and then about five
(00:43):
years ago, I had an opportunityarise where I could join DrFirst
as their Chief Medical Officer,which is a really fun role.
You know, it's actually prettyinteresting coming from the
academic, you know, clinicalside over to the vendor space or
the administrative businessside.
But I get to do a little bit ofeverything, as Chief Medical
(01:03):
Officer, so there's a lot ofsubject matter expertise that
I'm able to lend to thetechnical teams.
I'm often doing a lot ofspeaking engagements, like we're
doing here, a lot of speaking,podcast webinars, things like
that, especially at trade shows,fireside chats and things like
that.
And then, you know, there's afair amount of sales support
too, right?
(01:23):
convincing my other clinical,brethren that the solutions that
DrFirst is able to provide inthe medication management space
are actually top notch and thatyou're missing out if you're not
using us.
Nathan C (01:34):
As a marketer, I'm very curious about how you get,
to those conversations.
But before, we jump into thetactics of it, I'm hoping you
can just, dive into the problemspace that you're working on
over at DrFirst?
what's that core problem thatyou're trying to solve for
these, former colleagues ofyours?
Dr. Colin Banas (01:53):
Yeah.
The core competency of thecompany is end to end medication
management.
So if you think about thelifecycle of a prescription from
showing up at a doctor's officeor provider's office to them
making the prescribing decisionto you getting that prescription
filled and ultimately staying ontherapy and then monitoring that
(02:16):
success, that journey Dr.
First has a piece of everysingle step.
And so the problem space, if Ihad to distill it down is,
Getting patients on and keepingthem on therapy.
That is the ultimate goal.
That is where we are successful.
That is where patients willsucceed.
And of course, as a clinicianmyself, I want to make this
(02:36):
process, as frictionless and,almost as joyful as it can
possibly be.
so it's a tightrope, right?
I'm walking regulatoryrequirements.
But I'm also trying to improvethe process, but ultimately the
core of your question, getting apatient on therapy and keeping
them on therapy.
Nathan C (02:55):
Are you able to describe a way that DrFirst
makes managing medicationsdelightful?
As a patient, you know, I haveADHD and ADHD medications are
notoriously hard to manage froma patient's perspective.
How does DrFirst, make thisholistic view and success, more
(03:18):
enjoyable, delightful.
Dr. Colin Banas (03:20):
Yeah.
So from the providerperspective, there are, it's
little things, it's littlethings that remove the friction
from the process.
It's surfacing information anddata at the right moment so that
I know These are yourprescriptions, this is what has
not worked, this is what hasworked.
it's keeping me withinregulatory, requirements without
(03:41):
it making me chase extra clicksor extra screens.
it's even convenience.
You know, one of the cool thingsthat I get to work on is our
mobile prescribing.
So, I can be at my kid's soccergame, you could contact me and
say, I'm actually running low,or I'm about to, you know, enter
the weekend.
And my supply of something thatis critical is about to run out.
(04:04):
I can actually use my mobiledevice and make that
prescription without everpicking up a phone, without ever
logging back into a laptop or,you know, VPN back into the
company, and also you on thepatient side are going to get
notified.
Dr.
Banas has just taken action.
Click here to learn about it.
If we can line you up withcoupons or savings event, visit
(04:26):
We'll do that too.
And so, it's little things alongthe way to remove friction that
actually make this, enjoyable.
At least that's the vision andthat's the hope.
Nathan C (04:37):
So, we were introduced around the HLTH event, just
recently in Vegas.
One of the things that I noticedat the HLTH event was this idea
that, Doctors?
Payers, insurance agencies areall really feeling the pinch of
there's not enough people to doall of the important health care
(04:58):
work that we need to do.
And in the past, there seemed tobe this, model that the only
place you could get care orconnect with a doctor was in the
doctor's office.
And there were a number ofreasons for this.
It might be that only, you know,insurance companies only pay for
doctor's visits.
It might be that doctors onlyprefer face to face and there,
(05:19):
there's all these differences.
but at HLTH what I reallystarted to hear was there is
such an urgent need to addressgaps in the system or just to
address health care needs that.
Everybody is interested inlooking at technology, and
especially AI, to see howtechnology can improve the care,
(05:41):
can reach customers where theyare, can, you know, be more real
time, can be more communicative,can be more activated.
And it almost seemed like therewas this permission that people
got, and there was this,Ownership, that each part of the
supply chain was like, hey,we've got data, we want to
(06:01):
contribute.
And what I'm hearing from you isthat you have data on this whole
experience within medicalapplication management, and
you're using that information tosupply context and data and even
like regulatory, you know, needsin real time.
Dr. Colin Banas (06:21):
I would have been happy to talk about, how we
use
Nathan C (06:24):
Okay, let's do it.
So, how do you use, how do youactivate, you know, what excites
you about the data that you'reable to contribute into this
conversation?
And, how does DrFirst sort ofstand out in the way that you do
that?
Dr. Colin Banas (06:37):
yeah, you know, there's a lot of quotes that
come to mind when you're hearingthe excitement around this, you
know, one of which is"you can'tmanage what you can't measure."
And, the other fun one, Is"inGod we trust everyone else must
bring data." and I think that'strue, right?
And, at Dr first, as youmentioned, we do have a fair
amount of data and we use thatdata to curate our solutions.
(07:01):
one of the initiatives that weare taking on right now relates
to the personalization of someof those messages that we were
able to send our patients onbehalf of the doctors.
So the more I understand aboutyou as a patient.
Your social determinants ofhealth, your zip code, your
prior medication history, andyour medication list.
(07:22):
The better I can tailor thatmessage directly to you,
personalized to you, to provideyou the appropriate education,
the appropriate, activation.
You used a great word there,right?
Nathan C (07:34):
So, The Glow Up is very much a business podcast,
and, you know, I love betteruser experiences as a path to
great, products.
how do you measure the impact,of the work that you're doing
within medication management?
Especially when, like you said,there are many players, many
stakeholders, and it is a bit ofa journey where you have to,
(07:55):
get.
There's a lot of challenges, inthis space.
You wouldn't be a tool if thereweren't.
But, how do you view and measureyour success in this space?
Dr. Colin Banas (08:05):
Yeah, it all comes down to data.
So on the patient engagementside, adherence rates, right?
we vigorously measure ourinterventions and whether or not
they had an impact on thatpatient, picking up that
medication and that patientstaying on that medication.
and then we figure out.
With data, why was thatsuccessful?
(08:26):
is it because we educated them?
Is it because we provided a copay assistance program face up?
Was it because we were able tolink them to other resources
such as specialty medication hubservices or things like that?
On the hospital side or on theprovider side, you can take
something as routine asmedication reconciliation.
(08:48):
So for your listeners, everytime you go to the doctor,
they're supposed to Interviewyou, figure out what medications
you are currently taking, andthen make decisions about what
to continue, what to stop, whatto change.
And then on the way out, handyou a list or, educate you and
say, This is what you should bedoing going forward.
This is a miniature version ofyour care plan.
(09:09):
Well, we have tools that makethat process more efficient.
We have tools that bring in moredata to that interview process.
We have AI tools that can bringthat data over in such a way
that the electronic record isable to consume it without
people re keying or re typing.
So in that instance, we'remeasuring clicks and keystrokes.
and time savings.
(09:30):
And then I turn around and I goback to the health system and I
said, did you know after weimplemented, after you
implemented our tool, yourpharmacy technicians were able
to see 50 percent more patientsduring the shift, or your
serious safety event raterelated to medication error went
down 25%.
And these are numbers that I'mmaking up.
These are real world numbersthat we are getting from our
(09:53):
partner clients.
and actually publishing on inpeer reviewed journals.
So, it all comes down to data,it all comes down to
measurement, and it also comesin engaging the stakeholder in
saying, what is important toyou, so that I know what the
most appropriate thing is thatwe can be measuring.
Nathan C (10:10):
50 percent more visits, 50 percent more patients
seen is a pretty dramatic, statthat speaks both to the
operational efficiencies, right,like what the team can do, but
when we're talking about patientoutcomes, that's 50 percent more
patients, seen that day, whichis not insignificant.
(10:34):
Has there been, a data point ora learning that you've had in
your time at Dr.
First that has either changed,the way you, you know, that,
that really impacted, theroadmap of the product, or that
changed your understanding, ofthose, continuation of care
(10:55):
dynamics in a notable way.
Dr. Colin Banas (10:57):
I'll give you one from an industry
perspective, it's the growth ofspecialty medications.
It is, we're seeing anexponential growth in these
highly specialized and highlyeffective And so, in order to be
successful as a medicationmanagement company, you need to
go to, you need to skate towhere the puck is headed, and
(11:17):
the puck is headed towardsspecialty.
And so, we are very deep intooptimizing the specialty
experience.
and that comes with a lot of,vagaries.
you know, not all specialtymedications are the same.
Some of them are handled by yourpharmacy benefit.
Some of them are handled by yourmedical benefit.
some of them require delivery toa doctor or to home for you to
(11:41):
do the injection.
Some of them you have to go toan infusion center.
You know, it is a verycomplicated thing to navigate.
and for a company thatspecializes in this, no pun
intended, imagine how hard it isto keep up as a clinician, in
terms of what are the rules,what is the sequence I need to
go through here.
And so, that's what we're, youknow, you, you mentioned what
(12:03):
data point altered the roadmap.
It is the growth of specialty,specifically sent us, DrFirst,
on a trajectory to solve And tomake that experience joyful as
well, as much as one can do.
And so that means conqueringprior authorization.
That means conqueringtransparency, not only for the
clinician, but also for thepatient.
(12:25):
you have better insight into thestatus of your pizza.
delivery than you do inunderstanding where you stand on
your specialty medication,right?
That's insane.
I got, you know, the pizza is inthe oven.
The pizza has been picked up.
The pizza's on the way.
I order, you know, one of thesenew specialty medications for a
patient, and I might not knowfor days that it requires a
(12:47):
prior auth or that the priorauth has been denied.
there's all sorts ofopportunities that we can
conquer together.
to make this, much more,appropriate, right?
I don't want patients delayedtherapy because of bureaucracy.
And so this area is rife withopportunity.
And it lends itself very well toAI and automation.
Nathan C (13:10):
I just have to give that a moment that, right, like,
we shouldn't be impacting carewith bureaucracy, I think is a
fantastic, mission for anybodywho's trying to optimize, that
healthcare space.
So the show is called The GlowUp, right?
And a glow up is a notableimprovement, a breakthrough of
(13:32):
sorts.
I'm curious, what sort of glowup do you envision for your work
at DrFirst in the next sixmonths?
What are the big goals andmilestones you're working on
right now?
Dr. Colin Banas (13:45):
It is transparency, through Augmented
intelligence.
And I specifically use the wordaugmented intelligence.
I'm actually, I hate the termartificial intelligence.
I find it to be kind of offputting and a little bit almost
creepy.
Whereas the real vision for AIis to be this assistant.
(14:05):
to sit at my shoulder, if youwill, and help me do the work,
so that I can be a betterclinician.
And right now, a lot of what AIis able to take on and what
clinicians are comfortable withis tackling the administrative
burden.
And so I would say, The next sixmonths to 12 months in the
(14:27):
specialty space, we are glowingup in the application of AI in
the administrative burden as itrelates to medication management
and specialty medications.
and to me, that is superexciting because the trajectory
of, of this augmentedintelligence tools.
is going through the roof rightnow, as is the rate of the use
(14:48):
of specialty medications, as,and the frustration with the
process is also going up.
So again, you're back to myearlier comment, there is so
much opportunity here for us inthe next six months that we are
avidly jumping on here at Dr.
First.
Nathan C (15:04):
I love how Specialty medication is kind of a
challenge because it's taking,if I'm understanding correctly,
like in a lot of cases, hypertargeted solutions for an
individual, right?
Some cancer treatments are likeTargeted to your specific genes,
if I understand correctly,right?
(15:25):
And so, how do you both scalethe production of these complex,
personalized things, but thenalso how do you scale the
communication, delivery,education of this, these very
complex and and so forth?
Potentially, each one isslightly different.
(15:47):
Each one is targeted and unique.
so there's this push pull of AIgiving you the opportunity to
personalize, and thatpersonalization creating a whole
lot of complexity, but then youcan use the AI, to build it out.
when, People hear AI will useyour data for better
experiences.
(16:08):
I think a lot of them also hearWait, what are you doing with my
data?
so the question is, how do youbalance innovation with AI plus,
regulatory concerns about dataas well as just, your patients
and consumers concerns aboutdata?
how do you balance all of those,concerns in innovation?
Dr. Colin Banas (16:30):
it's about autonomy.
It's about providing patients alevel of autonomy in regards to
their data.
So a great example is for ourpatient engagement solution.
You have the ability to opt outat any time, and it's as simple
as, typing the word stop.
we make it just as easy to getout.
As it is to get in, similarlywith other data solutions,
(16:52):
patients have to give consent tothe providers and then back to
us in order for us to accessthat data on behalf of the
provider.
you're right, and I think thisis part of the reason the
interoperability journey is alittle slower than it has been
for those other industries thatI rattled off.
we need to tread carefully.
This cannot be the wild, wildwest when it comes to patient
(17:16):
data sort of flying all over theether.
It has to ultimately remain inthe control of the patient.
there are very smart peopleworking on this.
being able to, opt in forcertain use case scenarios, but
opt out for others, takes time.
You know, you might be verycomfortable with your anonymized
data.
(17:36):
Going to a cancer registrybecause it's going to further
the cancer, effort.
But you might not want thepharmacist down the street to
know your full medical historybecause it's none of their
business, you know, in yourmind.
You know, there are levels andguardrails that are being put in
place to give that autonomy backto the patient, if you will.
Nathan C (17:56):
I heard so much at the HLTH event, this idea of Start
with choice, right?
Like, most of what patients wantis a say in their care.
And, you know, if you givepeople a choice, they typically
will make the decisions thatthey, feel are best for them.
(18:17):
Dr.
Collin, I'm a little remiss.
I usually love to likeunderstand, the spark, the
beginning of somebody's journeyand innovation, and I feel like
I skipped over this with you alittle bit.
What was the moment that, tookyour long standing, academic and
clinical practice and got youinterested in the business and
technology side of it.
(18:38):
how did your journey on thisinnovation side, begin?
Dr. Colin Banas (18:42):
Yeah, you know, with a lot of Genesis stories,
there's always a sensei or amentor.
very early on in my hospitalistcareer, I was, I don't want to
use the word discontent, but Iwasn't necessarily fulfilled.
one of the things I did while Iwas a full time attending
hospitalist, was pursuing myMaster's of Health
(19:03):
Administration.
I figured, you know, can nevergo wrong getting more education.
Let me understand how hospitalswork.
Let me understand the businessof medicine.
And actually from there, Istarted to get other
opportunities within the fourwalls of the hospital.
For a while, I was the medicaldirector for care coordination,
and I was in charge ofutilization management.
(19:24):
But the real turning point camein about 2005, 2006, when my
really good friend, andultimately my mentor, Who now
works as the CHIO at EmoryUniversity, Alistair Erskine.
he and I started what we calledthe Office of Clinical
Transformation.
And the reason we did so isbecause our health system had an
(19:45):
electronic medical record since1999.
They were actually ahead of thecurve.
They had a full blown instanceof Cerner.
But there was no clinical inputinto it.
It was just sort of like ploppedupon the clinicians and there
were no enhancements being made.
The upgrades were falling behindand you know, it just so
(20:06):
happened that he and I wereinterested in technology.
and we said, you know what, Wecan do better.
And so we actually started aninformatics program at the
university.
and then ultimately that, youknow, the leadership of that
fell to me.
I did that for another 10 plusyears and then it started to get
stale.
And so there's actually twoGenesis stories here, right?
(20:27):
There is, how did I get intoinformatics in the first place?
Right place, right time,interest, and a good mentor.
And then, you know, about 2019,what else is out there?
What's the next thing I can bedoing?
You know, 17, 18 years is a longtime to be at one place.
What's the next journey?
(20:47):
How can I take all of thisexperience, from academic and
administrative medicine andapply it somewhere else that
might have an even biggerimpact?
our solutions touch, a quarterof all of the prescriptions in
the United States.
So in one way or another, we aretouching a quarter of the
prescriptions that are outthere.
(21:09):
That is scale.
You mentioned scale before.
intervening at that scale has areal opportunity to move the
needle.
And that's what keeps me excitedhere at DrFirst.
Nathan C (21:20):
I am so glad I went back and asked that.
Thank you.
that's so amazing.
I believe this is like the 15thepisode of The Glow Up that
we've recorded, and I amsurprised, and so thankful that
I believe this is the first timesomebody's mentioned mentorship,
(21:42):
specifically as, one of thosejumping off points, and I could
not Agree more, right?
I'm in the tech space.
my model for this, is when youare a subject matter expert and
you also learn the businessside, that's when you become
really dangerous because you seethe details, but you also know
how it fits in the overallecosystem.
(22:06):
And for you to just sort ofnaturally be like, the
administration side seems like agood thing to understand.
I applaud that curiosity, andthen, you know, that a mentor
could not only sort of bring youinto a new fields, but then
eventually place you as aleader, in that space, within
just a couple of years.
It's, it's always impressivehow, like, a passion project and
(22:29):
a little bit of support, can,Belief, can be so amazing, for
sparking new directions.
Dr.
Collin, you're working on somepretty big things and being able
to, you know, touching a quarterof anything at the scale of
healthcare is such an amazing,feat in itself, I'm curious how
you think about success, and howwill you know, that your work to
(22:53):
make data, informatics, customerexperience, user experiences
better, how will you know thatyou've made it or succeeded on
this mission,
Dr. Colin Banas (23:01):
Oh man, how do you spike the football?
you know, in healthcare, I'm notsure that you ever really can.
obviously it's important to setgoals along the way so that you
can celebrate success, that youcan re evaluate, re adjust, your
roadmap going forward.
I will say, you know, from aselfish point of view, I would
love for DrFirst to be ahousehold name.
(23:24):
I really, really would.
and we're getting there.
Believe me, in my five years,actually almost six years now of
being with the company, I thinkour recognition has grown,
substantially.
So that is, that is, you know,that, that, that's a metric of
success and that's a little bitof, of ego, but it's still
important, because I trulybelieve, in the, work that we're
(23:45):
doing in the success storiesthat we're able to make on
behalf of our clinicians andpatients.
I will say that along the way,the way to measure success, and
again, incremental, would be inthings like satisfaction.
You know, Let me interview theclinicians using our solutions.
let me have metrics aroundcustomer satisfaction.
(24:08):
Let me have metrics aroundpatient satisfaction.
But ultimately, you know, youwant to set the bar very high.
And it would be, you know, amoonshot goal would be 100
percent of appropriateprescriptions are being 100
percent adhered to whenappropriate.
you know, it's things like thatwhere you really need to think,
(24:29):
about what, what do we as anindustry want to measure as
success, and how can my littlepiece of the care journey
contribute to that?
And so there's lots of thingsthat we could be measuring along
the way, but, it's gotta beincremental and it's gotta be
data driven.
Nathan C (24:47):
You said some things that I think are really worth,
like, turning back to.
One, when you're working onsomething as big as a quarter of
all prescriptions in the U.
S., you have to set your ownrules.
Goals and, you know, definitionsof success.
You cannot, like, look at anecosystem that big and distill
(25:11):
out, did we do it or not?
Without, you know, putting yourown values and markers along the
way, right?
And so, I think, you know,trying to solve a very big
problem is really about checkingoff those smaller boxes over and
over again, until you reach,that infinite, impossible, 100%.
(25:31):
Especially in a thing likehealthcare, like, there is no
final goal.
It's always going to beinnovating.
It's always going to be growing.
And, to your larger goal, I haveto say, there is a ton of
opportunity to become thehousehold name for medication
management that's based ondelight and value received,
(25:54):
rather than the typical, We'llsave you something on your
prescriptions and Maybe thatwhole experience of saving money
on your prescriptions is totallyawful.
So I think there's, there's alot of opportunity to become a
beloved household name, in this,medication management space
Dr. Colin Banas (26:15):
I think if you build it correctly, they will
come.
And that's, we are on a journey.
We are marching
Nathan C (26:20):
I love it.
So on this journey, one of thethings that we always make time
for is just to ask, is thereanything that you're looking
for, hoping to engage peoplearound?
sometimes this is like networks.
you mentioned things that you'relooking to learn.
do you have a call to action or,anything that you're hoping,
anybody that you're hoping toconnect with?
Dr. Colin Banas (26:39):
I'm always eager to learn.
you probably could tell.
I stayed in school a long timeand then kept, kept, kept on
going.
This is a complicated ecosystem,believe it or not.
Healthcare, particularlyhealthcare in our country, has a
lot of players and a lot ofplayers behind the scenes that,
quite frankly, a lot of us don'tfully understand.
(27:02):
And so, if nothing else, I'malways looking to connect.
with a way to further myeducation and then to pass that
on.
You know, I view one of my rolesin the company is also as an
educator.
I can educate on the clinicianexperience.
You know, we're all patients atone time or another can educate
on that.
And then, I do feel uniquelypositioned in understanding the
(27:25):
regulatory space and theadministrative space.
And so, I'm always looking toconnect with leaders and thought
leadership.
in those, particular areas aswell.
So call to action, you know,connect with me and help me
learn more because I am, avidfor it.
Nathan C (27:40):
Amazing.
Well, Dr.
Colin Banas of DrFirst.
It has been such a delight forme to learn with you.
this space of, innovation withinthese, traditional and, gigantic
industries of healthcare,pharmacy, medication management,
is such a delight for me.
(28:01):
Juicy and multifaceted problemto be solving, and it warms my
heart over here at AwesomeFuture to hear you talking so
much about delightfulexperiences, AI, and data to
empower clinicians.
to build more human connections,around healthcare conversations,
(28:21):
instead of filling out the sameform seven times at each visit.
amazing work.
Thank you for sharing yourjourney and innovation with us
on the Glow Up
Dr. Colin Banas (28:30):
oh, thank you for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.