April 30, 2025 • 59 mins
🏌️ Episode Summary:
In this episode of The Golf Intervention Podcast, we dive into the most common misconceptions we see from students every day—ideas that are so widespread, they've become part of the "golf gospel" even though they often do more harm than good. From swing speed myths to confusion over grip pressure and the steep vs. shallow debate, we’re clearing the air so you can start making real progress.
đź’ˇ Key Takeaway:
Many golfers are chasing fixes for problems they don’t actually have. This episode is all about challenging assumptions, replacing myths with clarity, and helping you better understand your own swing.
đź”— Links & Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tyler (00:00):
Today's episode is brought to you by the premium
(00:02):
content subscribers on the golfintervention substack.
And we would of course like tothank all of our listeners for
tuning in, you make it all worthwhile.
If you would like to support theshow or sign up for our free
newsletter, you can do that atthegolfintervention.substack.com
or follow the link in the shownotes.
Eric (00:25):
And welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast.
It is springtime in Virginia.
The sun is out, the pollen hasdispersed, the leaves are on the
trees.
I smacked myself in the headwith a driver today and bled for
two hours.
Never missed a beat in anylesson.
Rob Failes (00:44):
missed a beat.
Eric (00:46):
And on today's episode, we will discuss that and we're
cover.
How not to do that.
And we will also cover, uh,three misconceptions that I'm
seeing with golfers.
Probably major misconceptions.
Robbie's got three majormisconceptions.
I don't know his, he doesn'tknow mine.
We're gonna discuss those todayand hopefully you, the golfer,
(01:07):
can learn something from thoseto help you play better golf in
2025.
So thank you for tuning back into the golf intervention.
Podcast.
So Rafael, you and I were justdiscussing a couple things,
including you just wrapped up agolf school.
Must have been pretty fun.
It's that time of year peopleare learning about golf
Rob Failes (01:28):
People are
Eric (01:29):
and at the
Rob Failes (01:29):
the
Eric (01:30):
people are fired up.
Rob Failes (01:32):
and the weather's getting good.
And it's kind of like that.
Virginia's an interesting statebecause it does give golfers
that sort of trigger.
It was like, oh, okay, now it'stime to go play golf.
Eric (01:42):
Correct it.
Rob Failes (01:43):
know, in Georgia and Florida, it's just a normal
thing all year round.
Whereas in Virginia, right, youput the six away for a little
bit and then Now we're off andrunning and we are busy.
Eric (01:56):
oh man, crazy busy.
And so that's why we probablyhaven't been as consistent about
recording, although, you know,Easter and traveling and some
stuff is going on.
But we have lots of things tosay.
I kind of wanted to do a wholeepisode on the Master's final
round, which we will not do.
But there was things to learnthere.
And I know I'm not on the innersanctum of Rory McElroy's team,
(02:20):
nor would I pretend to be.
Uh, but man, I am the biggestRory fan.
And, um, we all watch that.
I, I tell everybody I need toreset.
Rob Failes (02:30):
him to win that?
Yeah.
Eric (02:31):
I needed resuscitated three times during that round.
I literally died on the couchand like, daddy, are you okay?
I like call 9 1 1, like it wasthat bad.
Um, but I think there's thingswe've discussed here that I
just,
Rob Failes (02:44):
Yeah.
Eric (02:44):
Rory, you're right there.
But hopefully the monkey is offthe back now with Rory and, uh,
Rob Failes (02:48):
Yes.
Eric (02:49):
play great golf.
Hopefully this freed him up and,um.
I mean, he could play golf as,as well as anybody that's
probably ever played the game.
And so,
Rob Failes (02:57):
Yeah.
Eric (02:57):
um, hopefully he kinda gets over the hump'cause I know
I want him to.
So anyway, chitchatting aboutthat.
Um, I did bang my head today.
I, I mentioned that.
So I guess I won't leave thathanging out there.
I, I will say this, I, I am manythings good and bad, right?
One of them is not clumsy.
Like, I don't fall, I don'tslip, I don't drop things Like I
(03:20):
was thinking, I've had this,I've never broken an iPhone
screen in my life.
I don't drop my phone.
I don't,
Rob Failes (03:26):
That's
Eric (03:26):
trip and fall and none of those things, like, I'm just not
clumsy.
And, um, I don't know if you, ifyou call this clumsy, but I, I
was kind of holding the club.
Like a baseball bat, sort of inmy hand.
We were testing drivers and um,I had the driver like head up in
the air, like near my head, andthen the grip was pointed
(03:47):
towards the ground and pulled itlike a baseball bat.
And he asked me a question andI, I went to show him like.
It was actually about baseball.
Like, oh, how did my baseballswing affect this?
And I kind of made this likequick motion and the grip must
have bounced off the counter andit slammed the club into the
side of my head and it likeknocked me and my ear starts
(04:09):
bleeding.
And as we learned Pat this pastsummer, ears bleed a lot.
Okay.
Like ears bleed.
And that is true.
I bled for two hours, likeholding a tissue on my ear
Rob Failes (04:19):
lord.
Eric (04:21):
and I was like.
Rob Failes (04:22):
was not the peak of your athletic, uh, history in
that
Eric (04:25):
No.
I was like, whoa.
I will tell you I never missed abeat.
I taught boom, boom, boom.
Lesson less, less.
I sat for two of them though'cause and they were very nice.
My next two, my next two lessonswere like, do you need to like
go somewhere?
I'm like, no, I'll be fine.
Rob Failes (04:41):
go to the hospital.
Eric (04:42):
I'm like, I don't have time to bleed.
I don't have time forconcussions.
You're coming over the top andwe gotta fix it.
It is time.
So anyway.
Rob Failes (04:53):
nothing less though.
Expect
Eric (04:54):
Yeah, this is just keep, you know, these are the teaching
golf could be tough.
I mean, people don't realize
Rob Failes (05:00):
a contact sport man.
Eric (05:01):
it's a contact sport.
But that brings me to the topicof today's show, which is common
misconceptions.
I.
And I think that this time ofyear we're teaching so much,
right?
You're just turning over studentafter student, after student
lesson, after lesson, afterlesson.
And every time you're trying, ifyou teach like Robbie and I
(05:22):
teach, you're actually trying togain an understanding of what
their understanding is, right?
Because you're trying to go onthis journey together.
To play better.
And one of those things isyou're trying to understand
their intentions and whatthey're trying to do to produce
golf shots or score better or,you know, whatever they're
trying to do.
So a lot of times we're, we'regaining these, we're asking them
(05:44):
questions and we're gaininginsights into what they think.
And these are things thatobviously, uh, none of this is
making fun of people.
It's just like people thinkthings and it can hamper their
development.
Right.
So I was, I was thinking abouttoday's episode.
I thought, okay, I'm seeing allkinds of misconceptions.
Some we pick on a little bit onthis show, but I'm seeing all
(06:06):
kinds of things that are holdingpeople back.
And so I thought, let's do ashow where, let's talk about the
things that we're seeing on ourlesson tees that are probably
holding people back just from amisconception standpoint.
Um, because we don't need those,we don't need those constraints,
man.
We need to, we need to freeourselves up from.
Um, what's holding us back, andI've said it for a long, long
(06:27):
time for my game personally, itwas addition by subtraction.
'cause the more I learned aboutwhat, what was right and wrong
and what didn't matter and whatwas relevant and what wasn't
relevant and what was kind of BSand what was old wives tales and
what was things caddies whisperto you when you're playing bat
and like what was actually real,like
Rob Failes (06:48):
Yeah.
Eric (06:49):
real.
And as we sorted through that.
I just got better at golf.
Just kept getting better becauseI wasn't, I wasn't chasing my
tail through thesemisconceptions.
So, um, I would say that, I'llstart us off on this one just
'cause I'm already rambling, butthe number one I'm gonna start,
I'm not going backwards.
I'm gonna say number one for me
Rob Failes (07:10):
Yeah.
Eric (07:11):
is that when people have ball flight issues, I feel like
they.
Put way too much emphasis on theshape or the direction of the
swing, what you might callinfluence of path.
Rob Failes (07:28):
one.
Eric (07:29):
Well,
Rob Failes (07:30):
Oh my God.
My number one was literally,people are directly equating the
shot to the swing.
Eric (07:37):
yeah, and I would say that even, I would say I'm a little
different that, but I it's thesame.
Um, but even in that, let's sayin the, in the skill of ball
flight control.
Rob Failes (07:47):
mm-hmm.
Eric (07:48):
Like every time they hit a crooked shot, they think it's
the swing shape or the swingdirection.
When a lot of times it could bethe club.
I mean, most of the time theclub face, excuse me all the
time, the club face angle is waymore important.
Right.
Okay.
Rob Failes (08:03):
Correct.
Eric (08:04):
remember, I have a head wound today, so this could be a
little tricky.
We, you spit this stuff out so.
Let me say this again, and ifyou didn't go back to the show,
we did a few episodes ago, ohno, four or five episodes ago.
On the ball, on the ball flightloss, which was really detailed
on the science of what makes theball go where it goes.
And we went through the stuffthat's really matters and the
(08:26):
curvature of the shot, reallyassuming center contact,
assuming good contact, decentcontact is, is influenced by the
direction the club is moving,which is the path, and then the
face angle and impact, right?
And.
The face is just way, way, waymore influential than the path.
So if I'm hitting one and I'm,you know, I'm hitting it to the
(08:47):
left,
Rob Failes (08:47):
ladder.
Eric (08:48):
the student, a lot of times, first instinct is just to
try to swing to the right,right?
But if it's a closed club face,everything gets worse.
Are you seeing similar, I knowyou said it's your number one
too, and in the same vein, so,um, have you seen some of those
recently on the lesson t.
Rob Failes (09:06):
Oh, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
And it comes more from a, likea, a judgment thing is like, oh,
that was a bad shot, which meansthat was a bad swing.
Right?
Eric (09:17):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (09:18):
The question becomes, all right, well what's
the solution to bad swing?
Right?
Like,
Eric (09:23):
Change swing.
Rob Failes (09:24):
good swing, right?
So
Eric (09:25):
Yeah.
Right,
Rob Failes (09:26):
So it's,
Eric (09:27):
right.
Rob Failes (09:27):
not, uh, it's not anything tangible.
It's not anything objective.
It's not anything fact-based ormeasurable that you can actually
learn from, right?
And so a lot of my day is spentgetting people to use skill
differential training todisassociate and their
perception of what a swing is.
the shot because the differencesin the shot are the skills,
(09:49):
right?
And the differences in theskills are really, really,
really small.
Where the bottom swing arc is inspace, the face to path, the
speed, like we've talked adnauseum on this podcast, um, the
differences in them are really,really small, right?
And so.
That is, that is the majorityof, uh, of what I see.
And it just creates a lot ofanxiety because you have this
(10:10):
belief if the, just the tiniestthing in your swing is off, it's
gonna create a quote unquote badgolf shot, right?
And then it creates this, likewe've said before, this
constriction of space withlonger, widespread, more temp,
more, um, personal consequences.
All right, so it's verydestabilizing with your
(10:30):
confidence.
It doesn't feel good.
Um, you don't tend to learn asmuch again because you're just
judging as good or bad.
You're not actually givingyourself info.
So it's, a, it's a, spiral thatI see a lot of folks.
I may have just had one earliertoday where it was, oh my, I
feel like I've lost my swing.
The swing was no different thanhe's been for the last.
(10:54):
3, 4 years that I've beenworking with him.
And it's like, okay, firstquestion is, know, where is the
bottom of your offs swing?
Do you know?
And he was like, it could behere.
It could be there.
I was like, all right, hold on.
Time out.
Right?
is the first step.
You need to know what yourtendency is.
(11:15):
skill number one, right?
What, why are we worried aboutour golf swing if we don't know
where our tendency is with thatfirst skill?
Right?
So we went through it, startedhitting some better shots and I
kind of tricked him.
I was like,'cause we were doingsome differential training and
he got his bottom of the swingarc a little bit further back, a
little closer to him.
So it was getting it off theheel essentially.
(11:37):
he hit one on the sweet spot.
I was like, oh.
I was like, how'd that swingfeel?
He's like, oh man, that one feltgreat.
That swing felt, I was like, um,bad news bear.
Still, it was the same swing,
Eric (11:48):
It was the same swing.
Yeah, it wasn't a differentswing.
Rob Failes (11:51):
And
Eric (11:51):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (11:52):
I just saw his, his shoulders kind of, you know,
kind of exhale.
Like, oh gosh, you're right.
I've only been using the skillfeedback to tell me if it was a
good swing or not.
I was like, that's what we gottaget away from.
Eric (12:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think that just the,we've harped on this probably it
feels like for the last five orsix episodes, but mainly because
it's that time of year wherepeople are ramping up and
playing golf.
Hmm.
And so I felt like it's, themessage is like the swing is not
the shot.
(12:25):
The swing gives you access toskills that produce the shots.
And so you, you, you know,that's your gateway, so to
speak.
Now we're working on plenty ofswings these days.
I'm gonna tell you what, rightnow there's plenty of swing work
going on in our bays.
Rob Failes (12:38):
sure.
Eric (12:39):
Um, but at the end of the day, um, if we don't understand
where the shots come from.
It's really hard because then westart to go into this loop.
And what I was even saying, likeI think our points are similar
and on the same vein, butslightly different.
'cause it's like if I, if Ithink that the faces, if I think
the ball's.
(12:59):
Being going to the right becauseI'm, you know, swinging to the
right or something, and I startswinging more, like all these
massive quote unquote swingchanges where I go Google, like,
change my swing, like fix thehook or fix it.
And then I, I don't have thecontext of what's going on.
So being able to.
(13:20):
Really be able to judge yourselfacross some feedback levels.
Like, is my face open or close?
Am I, is the low point, youknow, too far forward, too far
back?
Is it good?
Am I, you know, all those thingshelp us, right?
But we don't, when we have a badball flight shape, think I need
to change the shape of my swing,like right off the bat.
Like that's, it's too complex todo that.
(13:40):
And people get, and this, thishappened actually when I was
little dazed today, that inbetween lesson where I was like.
In and out.
Rob Failes (13:48):
day did this happen?
Was this early
Eric (13:49):
It was late and no, it was late in the day.
It was in my one, it was in my,I'm trying to think, it was in
my one o'clock lesson and ithappened like towards the end,
probably with like 20 minutesleft.
So my two o'clock lesson, thisis the one I'm talking about.
I was a little dazed and it wasinteresting because it takes me
to my second misconception, um,but I'm not gonna bring that up
(14:11):
yet.
But the fact is, um.
You know, he was Eric, I'mmaking terrible contact.
Okay.
So at least he knows it's askill that's going on, right?
I'm just hitting it poorly.
I, I need to figure out what'sgoing on.
I'm not making good contact.
I'm topping everything.
I'm whatever.
And I.
I mean, he was standing up andswinging the, and I didn't have
(14:32):
the track man on, but I'm wannaguess his, his path was like
seven or eight degrees to theright with like no attack angle,
like hitting up on it and justthinning and shanking, like all
this stuff.
Rob Failes (14:42):
Yeah.
Eric (14:42):
And I was like kind of working through this swing and
I'm like, you know, we'reswinging miles to the right.
He goes, well, that's what I wastrying to do.
Right?
So it's just like.
Something must have gone wrongand the Google machine lit up
and then all of a sudden that's,you know, the literally the
thing he was trying to do waswhat's was hurting him.
(15:03):
And his handicap's gone up fourstrokes in two weeks and he
plays like four days a week.
Like it was bad, like hitting itbad for him from a nine to a 13,
like 50% increase in, inhandicap.
That feels like a lot.
Right.
Rob Failes (15:17):
a lot.
Eric (15:17):
So, um, so we had downwind that misconception for him a
little bit.
Alright, Rob fails.
Anything else you wanna add inthe, uh, blame your swing, um,
Rob Failes (15:28):
Okay.
Yeah, no, I think, I think verysimilar.
I think yours is more towardsthe, the why the ball is doing
what it's doing kind of thing.
Whereas mine is more, just morephilosophical.
Like good and bad is not theanswer.
It's, it is what it is, what
Eric (15:46):
Right?
Rob Failes (15:47):
happened.
Right?
And then.
Is your golf swing allowing youto be skillful?
Right.
And do you have a way offiguring out if it is or is not?
Eric (15:57):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (15:57):
And that's where the help of a coach comes in
oftentimes.
Right?
Eric (16:02):
A hundred percent.
Rob Failes (16:03):
that'd be, that'd be my, that'd be my big one.
Eric (16:06):
Cool.
Okay, now give me your numbertwo.
I went first last time, so you,you lay it on me.
Come on.
Number two, Rob fails.
Rob Failes (16:13):
Number two, the idea of should.
Eric (16:19):
The idea of good.
Rob Failes (16:20):
no should.
Eric (16:21):
Oh, should.
Rob Failes (16:23):
Should,
Eric (16:24):
How about that?
Uh, did you like the Instagramvideo I sent you the other day?
Rob Failes (16:29):
Uh uh.
Yes, I did.
Yeah.
Eric (16:35):
I mean, have to, should, can't, must.
Rob Failes (16:39):
must.
Yeah.
It's pretty brutal.
Eric (16:42):
Alright, so enlighten us a little bit about that.
Rob Failes (16:44):
Yeah.
So it's like I get this questionall breaking day long.
It's should the ball be in mystance?
Where
Eric (16:54):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (16:55):
should my hands be on the club?
should I be aiming here?
What shots should I be trying tohit?
What club should I use here?
What, and it's just always inthis very, there is a correct or
an incorrect of thing, andthat's the beauty of our game,
right?
There are so many options interms of there's really only
(17:15):
like four main rules.
It's like starts on the tee box,legal swings, the ball as it
lies.
Play the course as you found it.
Right.
Most of the rules are when youcan't do one of those two like
last ones.
Right.
And there's some etiquette stuffthat you could say you probably
should do terms of justnavigating the golf course and
(17:37):
being someone that you otherswanna play with, right?
We can say should when it comesto that, and that's pretty much
where it ends.
The way that you get the ballfrom point A to point B, there
is no should.
Right.
It's if you're standing over ashot and you're saying, all
right, well, the, the, the mathis telling me that I should do
(18:00):
this, but in my heart of hearts,I just don't want to do it this
way.
I don't want to hit this shot.
I just, this is not how I wantto do it.
It's okay.
Then don't do it.
Right.
Pick the shot that you want tohit, that you feel good about,
that you're not gonna regret theway you did it afterwards send
(18:21):
it.
All right.
Eric (18:23):
Send it.
Rob Failes (18:24):
That's a right.
That is a, that's a huge, hugedeal.
we have a lot more margin for,for variability in terms of um,
the way we stand, the way wehold it, the way we, again, like
the shot choices that we have,like, there's just so many
(18:44):
options that if we pencilourselves in saying, okay, well
there's a correct that I'mtrying to find.
Oftentimes it'll lead yourattention in very non-relevant
places.
You start to, to say, okay, I'vegotta make sure everything is
exactly perfect for me to beable to play the way I want.
And that's just not a greatplace to be.
I, I, I, I try to give golfersthat you need to give yourself
(19:09):
grace for these, these things tochange, You cannot say, all
right, I'm gonna set it andforget it.
Right?
You are, you're human.
You cannot repeat, you cannotstep in the same river twice, so
to speak.
Um, you've gotta give yourselfthat ability to be flexible and
portable with your skills.
(19:31):
So when people say, how should Ihold it?
I typically say, well, I'll giveyou some ways that you could.
Right.
You could hold it this way, you,you do not have to hold it this
way.
this is where the explorationcomes in.
This is like, okay, I currentlybelieve that this is a good idea
for me, but gonna keep testing.
(19:52):
I'm gonna keep trying out, I'mgonna keep exploring.
I'm gonna keep figuring out whatthe best way is for me to go
about this.
Because Lord knows, I mean, ifyou look at the Hall of Fame,
like it is littered with like,quote unquote bad golf swings.
Right.
Eric (20:07):
Yeah,
Rob Failes (20:08):
there's, uh, there is no should.
That would be my, my number two.
Eric (20:12):
I like that one.
And I would add to it, I mean, Ithink this lends to coaching as
well, because I, I sent you thisvideo.
It was just, it's, look, it'sprobably from the eighties or
nineties, right?
It's like nothing new, but it'sthis big name, golfer, what you
call Hall of Fame golfer, uh,golf instructor.
Excuse me.
(20:32):
And in the 32nd like video, hesaid to hit a good golf shot,
you have to do this and your,your left arm must do this and
this elbow has to do this.
It can't do this, you can't dothis.
Your hip has to do this.
And I was like watching itgoing, you know, he really is
convicted that he believeseverything he says is true.
Right.
Rob Failes (20:52):
Yes.
Yeah.
Eric (20:54):
I think for some people the advice that he gives would
definitely work.
Right?
But at the end of the day, whenyou're gonna play your best
golf, and our philosophy wouldbe, and a lot of teacher's
philosophy would be, is that's,that's indoctrination.
And that sometimes works andsometimes doesn't, right?
I had one today where the guywas, the face was open.
(21:16):
Okay.
Your club face open and impactto the path.
13 degrees on average.
Okay.
Newer golfer.
And he had been playing fine andthen he kinda went away and he,
he text me from, from Floridaand he is like, man, I've added
a stroke to every hole.
He's like, I need help.
So he came back in and that, youknow, and I watched him like the
clubface is just wide open,right?
(21:38):
You could see it on the firstfew swings.
And so what did we do?
We explored some ways to CLO toget the CLO face square or to
close it or less open, whateveryou wanna call it.
And one of them was like,alright, new golfer.
Let's try to str, you know,maybe we'll strengthen the left
hand grip a little bit to see.
I said we explored that option.
Let's try.
Hey, I said let's try somethingwith your left hand grip.
(21:58):
That could be it.
Maybe a potential answer.
Um, guess what happened?
It made it worse.
I,
Rob Failes (22:06):
open.
Yeah.
Eric (22:08):
okay, so
Rob Failes (22:09):
You never know, right?
We
Eric (22:11):
there's no textbook.
Rob Failes (22:13):
yes.
Eric (22:14):
know.
Rob Failes (22:14):
Text
Eric (22:14):
So he, he plays better.
What's that
Rob Failes (22:18):
you, you said, you said text bur
Eric (22:22):
textbook answer?
I'm telling you.
I've got a concussion,
Rob Failes (22:25):
I'm, I'm sorry.
I couldn't
Eric (22:28):
um,
Rob Failes (22:29):
Mm.
Eric (22:30):
textbook.
Um, so.
Rob Failes (22:34):
Yes.
Eric (22:35):
You know, it just hit
Rob Failes (22:36):
idea what's gonna happen before it happens.
Eric (22:38):
correct.
So there is no right, like you,you could look in the textbook
or Burke or whatever we said,and um, you know, a stronger,
more rotated, you know, overgrip could.
Make the club face come in moreclosed
Rob Failes (22:52):
Yes.
Eric (22:53):
for him.
It made it more open.
Why?
I don't really know.
We, we hit a few.
Clearly was uncomfortable forhim.
He didn't like it, you know,could be an anatomical, right?
Uh, it doesn't matter.
It just didn't work, right?
So the point is when you bring astudent in and, and, and what
Robbie's not saying is, um, ifyou come and you're a beginner
(23:15):
golfer.
You're, and someone says, Hey,where's the ball position
supposed to be?
Robbie's not gonna say, well, Idon't have the answer for you.
You're gonna have to explore.
I mean, you're gonna give him ajumping off point.
We're gonna coach him up.
Right?
And so that's like you'rehelping them learn.
But there isn't.
We didn't go to PGA school andthey say, here's the grip,
(23:36):
here's the stance, here's theball position, here's the back
swing, here's the, but.
It.
There's a lot of very high egopeople that teach that think
they have all the answers, andthis is one of the things that
you have to determine as astudent when you go find
yourself a coach, do you want acoach that tells you, you have
to do this and you have to dothis, and you have to do this
and can't do that?
(23:56):
You can't do that.
Or do you want one that's gonnawork with you, your
capabilities?
Your limitations, your learningstyle, to try to find a, a way
to draw out of you, your bestway to play golf.
And that is gonna start withexploration and options and
skill training and variabilityand all these things that we
(24:18):
talk about.
So, um, I like that one.
Really, I, I like the way youframed that for this episode.
There is no should, there's lotsof coulds.
Right.
And don't ever say can't, don'tever say can't in my bay.
Oh.
When people say can't, I'm like,please don't say can't.
Rob Failes (24:36):
Yeah.
Eric (24:37):
Right.
Um, alright, so my number two,my number two.
Moving right along my, there'sjust, we could do a whole show
on this and maybe we will, weprobably will, but I think
social media feeds this one bigtime.
Um, misconceptions around thesetwo words, steep and shallow,
(25:02):
and the biggest one being thatone of them is better than the
other one.
I just told a story about how Imade a, I worked hard with a
player today to make their swingsteeper, right?
Because they were so shallow.
I would say that probably in thesteep and shallow story, which I
(25:24):
don't stand there all day say,in terms of steep and shallow.
'cause a, most people have noidea what you're talking about.
'cause you could be referring toa lot of stuff, but.
For the most part, um, I work onthe quote unquote steepening
equally as much as I doshallowing, I would say with
people.
(25:44):
And this notion that everythinghas to be shallow has actually
just kept me really busy becauseit screws up as many people as
being steep.
And I don't,
Rob Failes (25:54):
Yeah.
Eric (25:55):
it just is what it is.
It is misinterpreting or it'sjust not, it's not gonna work
for the person that's in frontof them.
So.
Um, I think that if I were, if Iwere a golfer trying to get
better, trying to improve, um, Idon't think I'd worry about
steep and shallow at all.
I don't think it would be on mymind.
(26:16):
I, I, I think I would let it go.
I think it would just let it ushit.
Okay, we're gonna make a boldstatement on the Golf
Intervention Podcast today.
People let it go steep andshallow.
Let it go.
Doesn't it feel good?
Take a breath.
Rob Failes (26:30):
it feels great.
Eric (26:32):
Shallow is not better.
Let it go.
Let it out.
Shallow is not better, man.
I feel better.
How about you?
Rob Failes (26:43):
I already feel better,
Eric (26:44):
What do you think?
What do you, what Do you
Rob Failes (26:46):
like I, I think that, um.
It just gets flushed out when wedo skill different terrain, to
be honest with you.
Eric (26:54):
a hundred percent agree?
Yep.
Rob Failes (26:56):
It's like,
Eric (26:58):
I.
Rob Failes (26:58):
if, if the bottom of your golf swing is to the right
and then in our efforts to getit too far left, the shaft pitch
changes or whatever, then great.
I.
Cool.
Sounds great.
Right?
If it, if the bottom swing's toofar in front of the ball, like
to the left, relative to thegolfer, like as the golfer looks
at the golf ball to their leftcloser to the target we're just
exploring moving that bottomswing arc further to the right
(27:20):
or further to the left and theshaft pit changes, great.
Right?
But it's, it's, it's just notsuper relevant.
A lot of times, I think the, theword shallow when it comes to
like.
Backswing downswing.
Geometry is really describingtopic from Dr.
(27:42):
McKenzie that actually isn'tvery easy to see.
It's easier to feel especiallyif you do some rhythm stuff, if
you do some single arm drills,if you do some things like that,
like much easier to feel thatrelationship.
Than it is to see it.
And a lot of times, like youcould be creating this nice
relationship and it look quoteunquote steep, could be not
(28:04):
creating that relationship andit looked, quote unquote,
shallow.
So to me it's like, what's thepoint?
Like, why are we putting ourattention on the geometry of the
shaft pitch?
Really?
Uh, it doesn't, it doesn't movethe needle for me much.
Eric (28:20):
Let it go.
Let it go.
Golfers let it go.
Um, and the term just getsthrown around way too, um, way
too many things.
So to me, like, okay, the, thepitch of the shaft is what
you're, what you're referringto, right?
Like some angle of the shaftearly in the downswing, right?
That's steep.
Well.
I don't know, I'd call thatupright or maybe flatter or, you
(28:43):
know, is it shallow or steep?
To me?
To me, shallow and steep has alot to do with, um, you know,
what the, how the club is movingat impact.
Like, it has nothing to do withthe, with the shaft pitch,
right?
So like some people are verysteep with the shaft, quote
unquote shaft pitch early in thedownswing.
And those are people that areend up being so shallow and
(29:05):
impact a lot of'em.
It's crazy.
Rob Failes (29:07):
angle.
Yeah.
Eric (29:08):
Correct.
So an upward attack angle Iwould refer to as shallow.
Right.
And downward attack angle wouldbe steeper.
That's my opinion
Rob Failes (29:15):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (29:16):
outswing direction.
For a path for a right handerwould be, in my opinion, more
shallow.
Right.
Or out hand is probably steeper,but that's not even a great
descriptor either.
So I don't even use it.
Right.
I just use that was more up ormore down or more end to out or
more out to end.
Right.
And the shaft pitch geometry isjust.
(29:38):
It's a little bit of a waste oftime to even look at.
I think it's so heavilyinfluenced by Instagram because
people can show it, showsomething, and draw lines on it,
and it just gets confusing.
And the fact that like peopleare showing Justin Rose's
pre-shot routine and being like,everyone should do this.
Don't turn in the downswing anddrop your arms straight down.
(29:59):
I'm like, okay, that's gonnakeep me busy for a while in the
teaching bay too.
I can't wait to see that one.
Um, so
Rob Failes (30:07):
Yep.
Eric (30:09):
I guess that just goes into the other stuff we always
talk about, but you can'toversimplify this game in a lot
of ways, right?
Like, don't try to do it.
Don't, don't try to, it's just,it's just golf.
Find a good coach, take alesson, don't talk about shaft
pitch.
Life will be good.
I think that's all I have to sayabout that.
Um, alright, number three.
(30:30):
I can't decide which numberthree I want to do.
I have four just in case youhad, you and I overlapped a
little bit.
Do you have a good number three?
You wanna do your number threenext?
Rob Failes (30:40):
Yeah, I got a solid one.
Eric (30:42):
Okay.
You, you do your number three,how decide.
Rob Failes (30:44):
it's grip pressure versus tension,
Eric (30:48):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (30:48):
right?
So this is a big one recently,right?
Because typically in my lessons,we'll start off depending on
kind of where they're at witheither skill or swing stuff.
Um, if we start with swingstuff, which, if I've got a
beginner or someone who hasn'tplayed a lot, you know, a lot of
times we're starting with swingstuff.
We're saying, okay, how can wehold it?
How can we stand?
(31:09):
How can we get this clubswinging and rotating around us
right?
In a nice general rhythm that wecan develop skill off of right
in.
The biggest barrier to that thatI see is excess tension in the
ri surrounding the wrist,surrounding the forearms and
elbows.
Surrounding the shoulders.
(31:30):
Right.
So really like if I were to goin there and grab the club and
try to move them around, verydifficult to move the club.
What's very interesting withthose same people though, is
that when I look at their grips,there's a lot of space, there's
a lot of air, there's a lot ofgapping the hands and the club.
(31:50):
So like you could literally getyour, you could, you could see
where there could be some motionbetween the grip.
Itself in the hands during theswing, like the grip, like
literally the grip can move inthe hands during the
Eric (32:02):
Oh yeah, I see it all day long.
Rob Failes (32:05):
right?
So I would say they have anexcess of tension with not
enough grip pressure, right?
So what we want is we want toactually get the club very
secured in the fingers, right?
So where there's no gapping,there's no space, there's no
air, there's no way for the clubto move relative to the hand
(32:26):
between.
swing and impact, right?
it impacted if you hit the towor heel.
It's gonna move around a littlebit, obviously.
But if I were to go in there forthese golfers, again, it's very
secure, so I cannot possiblytake the club outta their hands.
But if I try to move them,there's no resistance.
I can easily just pick up theirarms and they fall down like
(32:47):
dead weight.
I can move the club in any whichway possible, there's no.
There's no strain whatsoever.
they're tension free, butthey've got appropriate grip
pressure.
And I'm not talking aboutsqueezing the life out of it.
not talking about like a, Idon't think you can like
actually hold it like a babybird either.
(33:08):
Like, that's garbage too, right?
So have it, have it, have it.
Hold it tight enough, hold itsecure enough where it doesn't
move around in your fingers.
But then give me.
As little tension as possiblearound the wrist, around the
forearm, around the elbow,around the shoulder, right?
Because we want them swingingfreely.
We do not want it to be steered.
(33:31):
So that would be my, my numberthree.
Eric (33:33):
I like it.
Um, I've been working, I've beenworking on my grip strength
recently.
I've been doing it for probablylike a year actually.
Um, I have, um, you know, like asqueezy thing that I use and
then I've been doing.
Like, um, dead weight body hangsthat really help you kind of do
it on for a minute and off for32nd.
You know, you're trying toincrease your grip pressure and
(33:55):
I've been, um, doing someresistance training, which helps
too.
Um, but I can feel, I.
Uh, when my hands get stronger.
And I think that grip strengthis something we don't discuss
enough probably in golf.
Like there's a lot of things wediscuss in golf and grip
strength isn't one, but I cantell when my hands are weaker.
I just don't, I don't play asgood at golf at all.
(34:17):
And I think it plays into whatyou're talking about is I'm able
to support that club with astrong grip that's not, um.
Creating tension up through the,and it just lends to control.
I mean, if you shake hands witha tour player, they, it feels
like you've never shaken handswith a tour player where they
feel like they have a weak grip,like their wrists and hand.
(34:40):
Even the LPGA tour shake handswith a i, um, obviously I'm
friends with one, but, um, uh,what's the name?
Austin ert.
Is that one, is that an lp?
Yeah.
Austin ert, is that her nameanyway, PXG player, she was out
playing one day at CCV.
Um, and I, you know, just mether on the range and shook her
(35:00):
hand.
I'm like, gracious, like they'rejust strong.
Like you cannot be really goodat golf without strong hands.
And so to your point, likethere's this, again,
misconception around like.
W you don't wanna be floppy, youwanna be strong.
Right.
And, but it's a, it's aninteresting one.
I think it's a point well noted.
Rob Failes (35:22):
It,
Eric (35:22):
Um,
Rob Failes (35:23):
free.
It's free from the, basicallythe wrist out.
Eric (35:29):
yeah.
Yeah.
But strong in the hands.
Rob Failes (35:32):
hands.
Eric (35:33):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (35:34):
fingers are secured.
But like, I would even say like,the hand can be soft, like you
can have.
Relatively like up here, as I'mlooking at the camera here, like
up there, up here can berelatively tension free,
Eric (35:48):
Yeah,
Rob Failes (35:49):
like fingers and heel pad up against that, that,
that's, that's solid.
That's not going anywhere.
Eric (35:56):
so apparently around the Master's time, John Daley, I
don't know why this went viral,but at least five people asked
me about this, John Daley.
No, this is part of what youwere saying.
This is part of yours.
Um, John Daley did some thingwhere he said, um, some clip
must have gone around TikTok orsomething where he said, uh,
(36:18):
people get fit for clubs all thetime, but they always play their
wrong size grip.
'cause no one gets fit forgrips.
Nobody.
And like four people, not CCVpeople.
This was like,
Rob Failes (36:30):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (36:30):
friend of mine at church and like somebody like.
How come no one gets fit forgrips?
I said I fit people for grips.
Every single, like every clubfitting, they get fit for their
grip size.
But to your point, like a lot ofmen play grips that are way too
small, in my opinion.
And then the club is movingaround in there.
There's so much space in there.
Rob Failes (36:51):
Yeah.
Eric (36:51):
I've been actually putting some people in the big, like
Bryson grips.
Um.
Rob Failes (36:57):
Mm.
Cool.
Eric (36:58):
There's been some study around that recently, um, that,
that the oversized grip canactually lead to, to more speed.
And I, and I wonder if it's whatyou're talking about, like I can
get it in there and secure itand kind of put a good firm grip
on it, but it's,
Rob Failes (37:13):
see that.
Eric (37:14):
but I can keep my rest of my body loose by doing it.
So, um, yeah, I put some jumbomax on this dude, like he was
playing mid-size, which wasfine, but he's six three.
And he wore an XL glove and itwas small on him.
It was like kind of tight.
And I'm like, bro, hold this.
I just had a jbo Max on a, on arandom nine iron and the, so
(37:36):
people could feel it.
And he was like, oh my gosh.
And he, I ordered him a set andhe, we put it, we put him on and
he said, changed his game cocompletely changed his game.
And I'm like, well, there yougo.
Grip size, huge.
So yes.
Rob Failes (37:51):
That's cool.
Yeah.
Eric (37:52):
Eh, I would argue with John Daly on this one.
People definitely get fit forgrip size.
I mean, every fitting we do, wedo a lot of fittings.
We fit for grip size, so that isit.
Okay.
Number three.
This one's kind of general, sothis could take a little while,
but there's so manymisconceptions around speed.
(38:12):
Okay.
Starting with things like, andwe say this all the time, like
you and I will hear, oh, I know.
My problem is I'm quote unquote.
Swinging too fast.
Um, or I need to really slow myback swing down'cause I know
that's gonna help me.
Um,
Rob Failes (38:29):
Oh yeah.
Yep.
That's
Eric (38:31):
a tough one.
Um,
Rob Failes (38:35):
the same crappy rhythm.
Slower.
great.
Eric (38:40):
rhythm is a big discussion when it comes to that, right?
Um,
Rob Failes (38:43):
we'll talk about that.
Eric (38:45):
so.
Rob Failes (38:46):
I.
Eric (38:48):
Yeah, so many, so many misconceptions around speed and
then even when people are tryingto get more speed, how they're
doing that is can be a bigmisconception too.
Rob Failes (38:58):
Yeah.
Yep.
Eric (38:59):
I would say that the one I see the most is, I know I'm
swinging too fast.
So I think the feel of that forpeople is this sense of like
kinda losing control and losingtheir rhythm in their swing.
So I think that
Rob Failes (39:12):
A
Eric (39:13):
correct.
So, so do me a favor, Robbie,'cause I think you do this
really well.
You do this much better than Ido.
Describe to the podcast listenerthe difference between tempo,
speed, and rhythm.
Please,
Rob Failes (39:27):
So, all right, buckle up.
So tempo is the overall amountof time in the swing.
All right?
So we're gonna use a different,uh, like syllable counts as a
good comp for this.
So.
If I were to make a golf swingwith a one syllable of time,
(39:49):
right?
So my backswing is gonna beJohn, my entire downswing and
follow through is gonna be rum.
So the amount of time it takesto say, John, the amount of time
it takes to say rum is the, isthe duration of time in the
backswing, and then the durationof time in the downswing.
So both words, John backswingrom downswing, and fall through.
(40:11):
Now if I go to a two syllable.
Right.
If we used driver driver moretime, that's a different tempo,
right?
You could say it's a quoteunquote.
That's why I don't like usingfaster or slower.
When we're talking about tempo,it's just more time or less,
right?
Eric (40:29):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (40:29):
It's just a different tempo.
And then typically then we go tothree syllables.
use Virginia.
Virginia, Different tempo moretime.
Alright, so.
That's important.
Distinction number one.
All right, so just for, forsomeone who says, okay, faster
tempo, slower tempo, justunderstand.
(40:51):
Okay.
Faster tempo is less timeslower.
Tempo is just more time.
Eric (40:57):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (40:58):
Rhythm is the pattern of time.
So is your backswing and thenentire downswing involved
through relatively matched, theyslightly different in one way or
another?
What is that ratio?
I.
Eric (41:13):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (41:14):
In my experience, when the rhythm is fairly free,
free, um, when it isuninhibited, those two
timeframes tend to match up ish,right?
It's not gonna be
Eric (41:30):
Close, correct?
Rob Failes (41:33):
but they're close-ish,
Eric (41:34):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (41:35):
So when you go Virginia and then Kat.
Okay.
Eric (41:41):
Right.
Rob Failes (41:41):
most, most of the day.
Eric (41:44):
Yep.
Rob Failes (41:44):
And it's not even Virginia, it's usually
California, uh, cat.
Right.
Eric (41:50):
Yep.
Yep.
Rob Failes (41:51):
what I see.
That would be a differentrhythm.
That would be kind of a veryoff, what I call like an off
time rhythm.
Eric (41:59):
Right.
Rob Failes (41:59):
typically that's very steered, that's very tight,
that's very tense.
you're very much grabbing theclub, forcing it.
Uh, to the ball, things of thatnature that we don't like to
see.
Eric (42:13):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (42:14):
again, the rhythm, the word kind of freedom,
rhythm, kind of the, um, theoverall pattern time.
speed.
If we're talking about it, ismeasured in club head speed at
the ball.
Eric (42:31):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (42:32):
So I want you to think of this more as a.
Total quantity of energy,necessarily the tempo'cause this
is what most people do.
They equate, okay, I gotta swingfaster by increasing the speed
of the tempo, which is just lesstime.
So then they go from Virginia,Virginia drive her cat.
Eric (42:58):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (42:58):
to get more clubhead speed at the bottom.
Eric (43:01):
Right.
Rob Failes (43:01):
in doing so, they give themselves less time.
Probably not that much differentswing, like from a, a, uh, swing
size standpoint, quite a bitshorter swing a lot of times.
And so they end up actuallyhaving less energy at the golf
ball.
Less momentum of less momentumat the golf ball.
They're trying to swing faster,faster, faster, faster, faster.
(43:23):
the club is actually decreased.
Like the amount of momentum theball is getting from the club at
impact is decreasing.
So what we're really looking foris we're looking for an amount
of force.
So again, let's talk about like,let's use like a three syllable
word as an analogy here.
So let's say someone's backswingwas energy and then their tire
(43:45):
downswing was energy, right?
So more or less.
just the amount of work, theamount of force that you're
putting into that, essentiallythat first syllable.
So any swing in like, like aquote unquote true swing, like
you're creating some force intothe club early, and then you're
(44:07):
allowing that force to becomemomentum that swings back and
then back into, into the golfball.
So the more force you put intothat initial syllable.
The further it's gonna traveland the faster it's gonna
travel.
That's why the time stays thesame.
If I give it less force, it'sgonna go slower, but it's also
(44:31):
not gonna go as far.
So the time is gonna be thesame.
I'm gonna be Virginia, Virginiafor a 40 yard pitch shot.
Virginia, Virginia for an 150yard iron shot.
And then Virginia, Virginia fora 300 yard drive.
Eric (44:47):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (44:48):
I'm just putting more force, more work into that
early part of the swing, thenI'm allowing that force to
become momentum that stretchesmy body and swings my arms and
rotates the club back and thenback down into the golf ball.
So just to review, tempo istime, amount of time.
(45:09):
The rhythm is the pattern oftime.
What we're looking for inclumped speed and the feedback
when we see the ball, speed isan amount of momentum and it's
an amount of energy.
It's like how much water are youpouring into the bucket?
Eric (45:26):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (45:26):
five pounds of water in the bucket?
Do you have 10 pounds of waterin the bucket?
Right.
That's what we're looking for.
That water, that amount ofmomentum is accumulated over
time.
So you can think of, okay, I'meither gonna be a very much a
one syllable golfer, which islike, uh, imagine like you're
going from a fire hose, so it'sa rush of water for a shorter
(45:48):
amount of time.
Or I'm gonna go like from myfaucet, from my kitchen faucet
for a longer period of time.
That's my three syllable.
Right?
But it's.
Right.
How much, How
Eric (46:03):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (46:03):
is actually getting that bucket could be the same in
either.
And you can change them foreither way that you're
organizing that.
it's just the difference in theamount of force you're putting
into kind of that firstsyllable.
Eric (46:16):
Yeah.
So I think that, going back tothe misconception,'cause that's
beautifully described, right?
So if you, if you listen to thatand have a little.
To tough time visualizing, justrewind it and listen to it
again.
'cause it, it, it makes totalsense and people use those
terms.
That could be anothermisconception, like tempo,
rhythm, you know, it's all overthe place.
Speed, fast, quick, whatever.
(46:37):
So here's the, here's the mainmisconception, right?
People feel this mis patterningof their rhythm, you know, and
then they, they define that as,I'm swinging too fast.
Right.
So then what do they do?
So they may, in your syllableexplanation, they, they might be
like a, a one, two, half, youknow, it's like a, it's, it's,
(46:57):
or a 1, 2, 3, 1 is probablyanother way to say it, right?
Like you were just describing.
So what do they do?
They slow the back swing down.
Rob Failes (47:06):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (47:06):
that does?
It makes it worse.
Rob Failes (47:09):
Worse.
Eric (47:10):
It makes it worse.
Okay.
So I spend more time speeding.
People's back swings up than Ido slowing their back swings
down.
There is no question about that.
It is very rare for someone tocome in and for me to tell'em
they gotta, we could exploreslowing their backswing down.
Almost never happens.
Sometimes I'm putting but.
Rob Failes (47:30):
Like, um, I, I can tell you the, uh, the research
that was done on this by Dr.
Bob Grober, he found that 90 ishpercent of PGA tour pros were
in, like, basically in fromthree syllables to one.
So when you think aboutVirginia, Virginia, that's three
syllables.
(47:51):
There are so many golfers thatcome to my lesson T that aren't
even close to three syllables,that are like four syllables,
five syllables, six syllables inthe back swing, and now they
don't have any momentum.
'cause it's really hard.
Just think about sitting on aswing set.
All right.
I My favorite analogy.
Is imagine you're on a swingset, right?
(48:12):
giving that a good initial push,and then at some point you gotta
get your hands off and let itswing freely.
happens if you, if that initialpush you're not, if you don't
get enough force into thatinitial push, well, what happens
is.
You gotta go, right?
You never actually get theopportunity to take your hands
off the wheel, right?
(48:33):
You keep your hands, you have tokeep your hands on that child
the whole way up.
And then now it's not swingingat this point.
You just gotta grab and pullthis thing back down.
that's what people feel whenlike, oh, I'm getting quick, I'm
I my swings too fast.
What they're feeling is nomomentum.
I'm just up in space.
(48:54):
I've just changed orientations.
The club is now just somewhereover there.
When it was added out in frontof me, now, I was just somewhere
else in space.
I have no energy built up in thesystem.
Now.
I've just gotta try to find itin a very, very, very short
amount of time.
Um, and by the way, that energyis usually directed to the ball
and towards the target, is whatwe know in terms of the, the
(49:17):
direction that force that wewant to be applied.
Uh, is actually, going in theother direction, right?
We do not want to be pulling thegrip toward the ball and toward
the target, We actually wantthat force.
When that club has momentum,it's kind of moving back toward
the target.
That force is going actuallyaway from the target.
(49:38):
And then it's the momentum ofthe club that swings into the
ball and toward the target.
It's not you forcing it ball ortoward the target.
So that's
Eric (49:48):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (49:49):
Um,
Eric (49:50):
Yeah.
But it makes that,
Rob Failes (49:51):
to,
Eric (49:52):
I think it was a great illustration.
I really do.
And I think people will get thata hundred percent.
And if you really wanna see thebest, I think at this watch,
Rory r Rory McElroy, Roy swing,like, um.
Rob Failes (50:03):
yeah.
Eric (50:04):
Watch how much energy he puts into his initial takeaway.
I mean, his backswing tempo isextremely fast.
I mean, you don't see it becauseit's such a beautiful rhythm and
Yeah, and it's a,
Rob Failes (50:17):
Yeah.
Eric (50:18):
know, but it's a beautiful rhythm.
But he has so much speed, rightfrom the takeaway and, um.
He captures that really well atthe top,
Rob Failes (50:28):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (50:28):
probably the best.
I mean, it's just so cool.
I mean, you have to be great atthat.
If you're gonna be 130 clubspeed at five feet, nine, I
mean, that guy is so good, sopowerful.
And I think that was a great, soif you are someone that thinks
you swing too fast, here's anactionable takeaway.
Start saying some syllables inyour swing.
(50:49):
Right.
What I have found with the helpof Rob fails and some of the
study that he's done with, um.
You know, on this is that whenyou get the, when you get this
right, your contact improves,like dramatically and to the
point where I would say one ofthe largest drivers of good
contact in the swing is actuallyrhythm.
(51:09):
And we wouldn't think of it thatway.
A lot of times we think of it,oh, it's my left arm bending, or
I'm moving on the ball, or I'm,you know, uh, uh, whatever it
is, right?
All this stuff, all the swingstuff, no.
Rob Failes (51:19):
are you swinging freely?
Is the club actually swinging?
Right?
Eric (51:22):
Correct, correct.
So.
Rob Failes (51:24):
you can knock that domino over so many other
dominoes from the skillstandpoint start to kind of fall
in line.
Eric (51:30):
And I know you and I are not big swing trainer people,
but I, I do think the orangeWhip does a very good job of
feeling this for a lot ofpeople.
So that is something, if youhave an orange whip, you can
really train the rhythm of yourswing for sure.
Um, but speed, which I guesspeople referring to as two fast,
it's like you were saying, it'sjust the club.
What, what it's measured rightbefore impact and, and you can
(51:52):
get a lot of speed from onesyllables and two syllables and
three syllables and, you know,and that, that, you know,
Rob Failes (51:59):
as far as
Eric (51:59):
again, John Rum is a one, he's a boom, boom.
Nick Price was a one boom boom.
Like, and they were, theysmashed it.
Right?
Um, and then, then you gotFreddie Couples who's long, one
of the longest of all time.
There's clearly a three, maybeeven more than that.
I don't know.
I haven't really looked atFreddie, but I mean, it's, VJ
Sync would be that way too.
Rob Failes (52:19):
totally, like, I recommend just exploring it,
right.
I, I would not try to change thesyllables.
To try to change anything likeball flight wise, like that's
not why you're doing it.
You're doing it because, okay, acertain tempo, at a certain
amount of, of time, certainsyllable count, it feels freer
(52:39):
to you.
It feels
Eric (52:41):
mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (52:41):
would want to do that for 18 holes or 36 holes,
and you feel like you could doit more consistently without
getting tired or without itchanging much.
Right.
That's why you're doing it,because it doesn't really
matter.
ball doesn't know what syllablecount you are.
The ball knows where the bottomof the swing goes in space, the
face, and the speed, right?
(53:02):
You're gonna layer skill on topof that stuff.
Eric (53:04):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (53:04):
the one that feels the freest to you, the one that
feels the most, like you'regetting the most bang for your
buck, like for the, for whatyou're putting into it.
You're getting the most out ofit, essentially.
Eric (53:16):
Awesome.
Awesome advice there, Rob.
Swell.
Anything else you wanted to addtoday?
Anything interesting?
Rob Failes (53:21):
No, I think, I think we Well, how's your, uh, how are
your fantasy teams?
Eric (53:26):
Um.
You know, Holden Steady, I'vetraded, I've no, not, no, I've
traded all my picks in thisyear's draft, so I, I don't have
anything to, to really lookforward to.
So I haven't really paidattention to the draft.
Um,
Rob Failes (53:41):
so
Eric (53:41):
which is, which is fine.
It is tomorrow.
Which, which
Rob Failes (53:45):
for our dynasty players.
Eric (53:48):
it is.
I do have an aim point thing tobring up though.
Um, I was talking to my friendwho plays.
Uh, she's, she, she's playingsenior LPGA events and, um,
she's, I would say she's easilya top 15 senior female player in
the world, um, based on herresults.
(54:08):
Right?
And she learned AimPoint fromBrian, your, your buddy last
year, right.
So this is, she was a greatputter on the LPGA tour, like
one of the best putters andnever learn name point.
And we're gonna have her on thepod for sure.
I'm just gonna make her come on,she'll do it.
Um, she's got really cool thingsto talk about.
So anyway, when you're that goodat golf, like you're fun to talk
(54:30):
to, right?
So she's prepping right now forsome big tournaments and she's
so good at aim, like her aimpoint is just.
She works on it every day.
It is so good.
She worked with Mark Sweeney onit at least five times and could
never understand it and justdidn't get it because she read
so well with her eyes at thetime then.
(54:51):
Then as her eyes had someissues, like she was all in.
So what she told me was, shegoes, it is.
So she goes, I spend half thetime reading greens that I used
to,
Rob Failes (55:04):
Yeah.
Eric (55:04):
and she said, it's so much faster.
It's not even funny.
You know when Aim Point gets allthis bad rap, like we all watch
Justin Rose at the Masters, takelike four minutes to hit a putt
right in the playoffs.
Like it was
Rob Failes (55:16):
Yeah,
Eric (55:17):
hard to watch.
That was not aim point.
I mean, he did some aim point,but he read it with his eyes and
he, you know, and then he missedby the way.
And so I just wanted to put itout there like they never showed
Ludwig Oberg much, but you,there was some like highlight
Resy.
Rob Failes (55:34):
the best.
Eric (55:35):
He is so fast, it's probably 15 seconds.
He reads a putt and he hits it.
Rob Failes (55:38):
doing aim point, he's
Eric (55:40):
He's doing the writing
Rob Failes (55:42):
aim point.
Eric (55:42):
correct.
So if you wanna know what Aimpoint is, watch Ludwig Oberg
because he does it exactly rightevery time, step by step.
Perfect.
And he reads a, he reads a greenand puts, I mean, it's within 20
seconds, I would say.
It is so fast.
Rob Failes (55:58):
is glorious.
Eric (55:59):
It is so fun to watch.
And that's the way I've beenputting.
Rob Failes (56:03):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (56:04):
he's, he's moving up my board fast.
I mean, that guy's just, he's acyborg man.
Like, he's so cool and he just,he's meant for golf.
But I was asking her how manywomen she thought like that play
in the senior US open stuff, youknow?
'cause she's playing againstAnnika and Julia concert's, like
that group.
Right.
Um, she said there's probablyfive total that she could figure
(56:27):
that are doing it.
Isn't that interesting?
I think it's just like.
Rob Failes (56:32):
yeah, they just.
Yeah.
Eric (56:35):
But she's so in, it's so cool to talk to her about it.
'cause she's like,
Rob Failes (56:39):
Yeah,
Eric (56:39):
and she could punt.
So what?
You watch her read green andit's like really, really cool.
So anyway, I just thought I'dbring that up.
Like I had someone today and Ijust love aim points, so I'm
just bringing it up again.
Um, a new golfer that waslearning it and they're just
like first putting lesson andthe fact that he could have an
idea of what the putt wassupposed to do.
(57:02):
And then judge himself off of itjust made it so much fun for him
and he got better so fast.
It was crazy.
Rob Failes (57:07):
Yep,
Eric (57:08):
like, I've tried to practice putting multiple times
in the last year and a half, andhe spent a, he said, I spent
like five or 10 minutes.
I don't know what I'm doing, soI just leave.
Right.
He never had any way to.
And he had drills to do.
I mean, I've given him drillsstuff like, but you know, like,
but he would do it and he'd say,I just hid it.
It was like I was hitting itinto the ocean.
I had no idea what I was doing.
And so all of a sudden, once youcan read and then have yourself
(57:30):
to judge yourself off too, itwas really, really cool.
So anyway, I just thought I'dadd that into the end.
It's just one of those topicsyou and I talk about a lot and
um,
Rob Failes (57:37):
Yeah,
Eric (57:38):
a huge proponent of it.
Rob Failes (57:40):
I don't know how to teach putting or green reading
without it.
Honestly.
Eric (57:45):
And the whole push to like
Rob Failes (57:47):
Hey, hey Rob, like, can you teach me how to read
greens?
And I'm not gonna do any point.
I'm gonna be like, uh.
Eric (57:54):
the old dump, the water cup on the green.
Rob Failes (57:56):
I
Eric (57:57):
take a,
Rob Failes (57:58):
I'm, I don't think I'm gonna, I just might not do
it.
I'll just be like, sorry,
Eric (58:03):
I don't, I don't know what I would say because it feels so
disingenuous at this point.
You know?
Rob Failes (58:08):
yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Eric (58:11):
So anyway, that is our show for today.
We thank you for tuning in.
Rob fails.
Thank you as always for joiningme.
Um, it's fun for us.
We do this as a hobby.
We're just glad y'all tune in,listen to what we have to say
from time to time.
It's like pretty fun.
Send us a message if you'd like,like send us an email, the golf
intervention gmail.com.
Let us know what you think ofthe show.
Find us on substack at the golfintervention.substack.com.
(58:35):
Don't look for golf tips from us'cause we don't do'em.
So don't look for'em.
Ain't happening.
We put some content on Substack,but at the end of the day, I
think you know why we don't putput golf tips out there.
But we appreciate you tuning in.
We hope you have a great week.
We hope your golf season's offto a great start.
Anything else you'd like to addhere, Ron
Rob Failes (58:57):
Oh, enjoy the, uh, the better weather.
Everyone.
Eric (59:01):
and NFL draft tomorrow, we'll get an update on the next
episode.
Rob Failes (59:04):
Where's Genty going?
Eric (59:06):
Hi.
Hi.
He's going.
Hi.
Rob Failes (59:09):
Top 10.
You think he's going top 10?
Eric (59:11):
I would take him.
He's that good.
We'll see.
Rob Failes (59:15):
the Bears are gonna, I think the bears are gonna
trade up and get'em.
my, that's
Eric (59:19):
Wow.
What a prediction.
Rob Failes (59:21):
They're gonna get 'em, they're gonna get'em at
like six or six, five or sixmaybe.
Eric (59:26):
I guess we'll see generational talent.
Alright.
Thank you all
Rob Failes (59:29):
right.
Eric (59:30):
next time on the golf intervention.
Take care.
Rob Failes (59:33):
Cheers.
Today's episode is brought to you by the premium
(00:02):
content subscribers on the golfintervention substack.
And we would of course like tothank all of our listeners for
tuning in, you make it all worthwhile.
If you would like to support theshow or sign up for our free
newsletter, you can do that atthegolfintervention.substack.com
or follow the link in the shownotes.
Eric (00:25):
And welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast.
It is springtime in Virginia.
The sun is out, the pollen hasdispersed, the leaves are on the
trees.
I smacked myself in the headwith a driver today and bled for
two hours.
Never missed a beat in anylesson.
Rob Failes (00:44):
missed a beat.
Eric (00:46):
And on today's episode, we will discuss that and we're
cover.
How not to do that.
And we will also cover, uh,three misconceptions that I'm
seeing with golfers.
Probably major misconceptions.
Robbie's got three majormisconceptions.
I don't know his, he doesn'tknow mine.
We're gonna discuss those todayand hopefully you, the golfer,
(01:07):
can learn something from thoseto help you play better golf in
2025.
So thank you for tuning back into the golf intervention.
Podcast.
So Rafael, you and I were justdiscussing a couple things,
including you just wrapped up agolf school.
Must have been pretty fun.
It's that time of year peopleare learning about golf
Rob Failes (01:28):
People are
Eric (01:29):
and at the
Rob Failes (01:29):
the
Eric (01:30):
people are fired up.
Rob Failes (01:32):
and the weather's getting good.
And it's kind of like that.
Virginia's an interesting statebecause it does give golfers
that sort of trigger.
It was like, oh, okay, now it'stime to go play golf.
Eric (01:42):
Correct it.
Rob Failes (01:43):
know, in Georgia and Florida, it's just a normal
thing all year round.
Whereas in Virginia, right, youput the six away for a little
bit and then Now we're off andrunning and we are busy.
Eric (01:56):
oh man, crazy busy.
And so that's why we probablyhaven't been as consistent about
recording, although, you know,Easter and traveling and some
stuff is going on.
But we have lots of things tosay.
I kind of wanted to do a wholeepisode on the Master's final
round, which we will not do.
But there was things to learnthere.
And I know I'm not on the innersanctum of Rory McElroy's team,
(02:20):
nor would I pretend to be.
Uh, but man, I am the biggestRory fan.
And, um, we all watch that.
I, I tell everybody I need toreset.
Rob Failes (02:30):
him to win that?
Yeah.
Eric (02:31):
I needed resuscitated three times during that round.
I literally died on the couchand like, daddy, are you okay?
I like call 9 1 1, like it wasthat bad.
Um, but I think there's thingswe've discussed here that I
just,
Rob Failes (02:44):
Yeah.
Eric (02:44):
Rory, you're right there.
But hopefully the monkey is offthe back now with Rory and, uh,
Rob Failes (02:48):
Yes.
Eric (02:49):
play great golf.
Hopefully this freed him up and,um.
I mean, he could play golf as,as well as anybody that's
probably ever played the game.
And so,
Rob Failes (02:57):
Yeah.
Eric (02:57):
um, hopefully he kinda gets over the hump'cause I know
I want him to.
So anyway, chitchatting aboutthat.
Um, I did bang my head today.
I, I mentioned that.
So I guess I won't leave thathanging out there.
I, I will say this, I, I am manythings good and bad, right?
One of them is not clumsy.
Like, I don't fall, I don'tslip, I don't drop things Like I
(03:20):
was thinking, I've had this,I've never broken an iPhone
screen in my life.
I don't drop my phone.
I don't,
Rob Failes (03:26):
That's
Eric (03:26):
trip and fall and none of those things, like, I'm just not
clumsy.
And, um, I don't know if you, ifyou call this clumsy, but I, I
was kind of holding the club.
Like a baseball bat, sort of inmy hand.
We were testing drivers and um,I had the driver like head up in
the air, like near my head, andthen the grip was pointed
(03:47):
towards the ground and pulled itlike a baseball bat.
And he asked me a question andI, I went to show him like.
It was actually about baseball.
Like, oh, how did my baseballswing affect this?
And I kind of made this likequick motion and the grip must
have bounced off the counter andit slammed the club into the
side of my head and it likeknocked me and my ear starts
(04:09):
bleeding.
And as we learned Pat this pastsummer, ears bleed a lot.
Okay.
Like ears bleed.
And that is true.
I bled for two hours, likeholding a tissue on my ear
Rob Failes (04:19):
lord.
Eric (04:21):
and I was like.
Rob Failes (04:22):
was not the peak of your athletic, uh, history in
that
Eric (04:25):
No.
I was like, whoa.
I will tell you I never missed abeat.
I taught boom, boom, boom.
Lesson less, less.
I sat for two of them though'cause and they were very nice.
My next two, my next two lessonswere like, do you need to like
go somewhere?
I'm like, no, I'll be fine.
Rob Failes (04:41):
go to the hospital.
Eric (04:42):
I'm like, I don't have time to bleed.
I don't have time forconcussions.
You're coming over the top andwe gotta fix it.
It is time.
So anyway.
Rob Failes (04:53):
nothing less though.
Expect
Eric (04:54):
Yeah, this is just keep, you know, these are the teaching
golf could be tough.
I mean, people don't realize
Rob Failes (05:00):
a contact sport man.
Eric (05:01):
it's a contact sport.
But that brings me to the topicof today's show, which is common
misconceptions.
I.
And I think that this time ofyear we're teaching so much,
right?
You're just turning over studentafter student, after student
lesson, after lesson, afterlesson.
And every time you're trying, ifyou teach like Robbie and I
(05:22):
teach, you're actually trying togain an understanding of what
their understanding is, right?
Because you're trying to go onthis journey together.
To play better.
And one of those things isyou're trying to understand
their intentions and whatthey're trying to do to produce
golf shots or score better or,you know, whatever they're
trying to do.
So a lot of times we're, we'regaining these, we're asking them
(05:44):
questions and we're gaininginsights into what they think.
And these are things thatobviously, uh, none of this is
making fun of people.
It's just like people thinkthings and it can hamper their
development.
Right.
So I was, I was thinking abouttoday's episode.
I thought, okay, I'm seeing allkinds of misconceptions.
Some we pick on a little bit onthis show, but I'm seeing all
(06:06):
kinds of things that are holdingpeople back.
And so I thought, let's do ashow where, let's talk about the
things that we're seeing on ourlesson tees that are probably
holding people back just from amisconception standpoint.
Um, because we don't need those,we don't need those constraints,
man.
We need to, we need to freeourselves up from.
Um, what's holding us back, andI've said it for a long, long
(06:27):
time for my game personally, itwas addition by subtraction.
'cause the more I learned aboutwhat, what was right and wrong
and what didn't matter and whatwas relevant and what wasn't
relevant and what was kind of BSand what was old wives tales and
what was things caddies whisperto you when you're playing bat
and like what was actually real,like
Rob Failes (06:48):
Yeah.
Eric (06:49):
real.
And as we sorted through that.
I just got better at golf.
Just kept getting better becauseI wasn't, I wasn't chasing my
tail through thesemisconceptions.
So, um, I would say that, I'llstart us off on this one just
'cause I'm already rambling, butthe number one I'm gonna start,
I'm not going backwards.
I'm gonna say number one for me
Rob Failes (07:10):
Yeah.
Eric (07:11):
is that when people have ball flight issues, I feel like
they.
Put way too much emphasis on theshape or the direction of the
swing, what you might callinfluence of path.
Rob Failes (07:28):
one.
Eric (07:29):
Well,
Rob Failes (07:30):
Oh my God.
My number one was literally,people are directly equating the
shot to the swing.
Eric (07:37):
yeah, and I would say that even, I would say I'm a little
different that, but I it's thesame.
Um, but even in that, let's sayin the, in the skill of ball
flight control.
Rob Failes (07:47):
mm-hmm.
Eric (07:48):
Like every time they hit a crooked shot, they think it's
the swing shape or the swingdirection.
When a lot of times it could bethe club.
I mean, most of the time theclub face, excuse me all the
time, the club face angle is waymore important.
Right.
Okay.
Rob Failes (08:03):
Correct.
Eric (08:04):
remember, I have a head wound today, so this could be a
little tricky.
We, you spit this stuff out so.
Let me say this again, and ifyou didn't go back to the show,
we did a few episodes ago, ohno, four or five episodes ago.
On the ball, on the ball flightloss, which was really detailed
on the science of what makes theball go where it goes.
And we went through the stuffthat's really matters and the
(08:26):
curvature of the shot, reallyassuming center contact,
assuming good contact, decentcontact is, is influenced by the
direction the club is moving,which is the path, and then the
face angle and impact, right?
And.
The face is just way, way, waymore influential than the path.
So if I'm hitting one and I'm,you know, I'm hitting it to the
(08:47):
left,
Rob Failes (08:47):
ladder.
Eric (08:48):
the student, a lot of times, first instinct is just to
try to swing to the right,right?
But if it's a closed club face,everything gets worse.
Are you seeing similar, I knowyou said it's your number one
too, and in the same vein, so,um, have you seen some of those
recently on the lesson t.
Rob Failes (09:06):
Oh, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
And it comes more from a, likea, a judgment thing is like, oh,
that was a bad shot, which meansthat was a bad swing.
Right?
Eric (09:17):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (09:18):
The question becomes, all right, well what's
the solution to bad swing?
Right?
Like,
Eric (09:23):
Change swing.
Rob Failes (09:24):
good swing, right?
So
Eric (09:25):
Yeah.
Right,
Rob Failes (09:26):
So it's,
Eric (09:27):
right.
Rob Failes (09:27):
not, uh, it's not anything tangible.
It's not anything objective.
It's not anything fact-based ormeasurable that you can actually
learn from, right?
And so a lot of my day is spentgetting people to use skill
differential training todisassociate and their
perception of what a swing is.
the shot because the differencesin the shot are the skills,
(09:49):
right?
And the differences in theskills are really, really,
really small.
Where the bottom swing arc is inspace, the face to path, the
speed, like we've talked adnauseum on this podcast, um, the
differences in them are really,really small, right?
And so.
That is, that is the majorityof, uh, of what I see.
And it just creates a lot ofanxiety because you have this
(10:10):
belief if the, just the tiniestthing in your swing is off, it's
gonna create a quote unquote badgolf shot, right?
And then it creates this, likewe've said before, this
constriction of space withlonger, widespread, more temp,
more, um, personal consequences.
All right, so it's verydestabilizing with your
(10:30):
confidence.
It doesn't feel good.
Um, you don't tend to learn asmuch again because you're just
judging as good or bad.
You're not actually givingyourself info.
So it's, a, it's a, spiral thatI see a lot of folks.
I may have just had one earliertoday where it was, oh my, I
feel like I've lost my swing.
The swing was no different thanhe's been for the last.
(10:54):
3, 4 years that I've beenworking with him.
And it's like, okay, firstquestion is, know, where is the
bottom of your offs swing?
Do you know?
And he was like, it could behere.
It could be there.
I was like, all right, hold on.
Time out.
Right?
is the first step.
You need to know what yourtendency is.
(11:15):
skill number one, right?
What, why are we worried aboutour golf swing if we don't know
where our tendency is with thatfirst skill?
Right?
So we went through it, startedhitting some better shots and I
kind of tricked him.
I was like,'cause we were doingsome differential training and
he got his bottom of the swingarc a little bit further back, a
little closer to him.
So it was getting it off theheel essentially.
(11:37):
he hit one on the sweet spot.
I was like, oh.
I was like, how'd that swingfeel?
He's like, oh man, that one feltgreat.
That swing felt, I was like, um,bad news bear.
Still, it was the same swing,
Eric (11:48):
It was the same swing.
Yeah, it wasn't a differentswing.
Rob Failes (11:51):
And
Eric (11:51):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (11:52):
I just saw his, his shoulders kind of, you know,
kind of exhale.
Like, oh gosh, you're right.
I've only been using the skillfeedback to tell me if it was a
good swing or not.
I was like, that's what we gottaget away from.
Eric (12:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think that just the,we've harped on this probably it
feels like for the last five orsix episodes, but mainly because
it's that time of year wherepeople are ramping up and
playing golf.
Hmm.
And so I felt like it's, themessage is like the swing is not
the shot.
(12:25):
The swing gives you access toskills that produce the shots.
And so you, you, you know,that's your gateway, so to
speak.
Now we're working on plenty ofswings these days.
I'm gonna tell you what, rightnow there's plenty of swing work
going on in our bays.
Rob Failes (12:38):
sure.
Eric (12:39):
Um, but at the end of the day, um, if we don't understand
where the shots come from.
It's really hard because then westart to go into this loop.
And what I was even saying, likeI think our points are similar
and on the same vein, butslightly different.
'cause it's like if I, if Ithink that the faces, if I think
the ball's.
(12:59):
Being going to the right becauseI'm, you know, swinging to the
right or something, and I startswinging more, like all these
massive quote unquote swingchanges where I go Google, like,
change my swing, like fix thehook or fix it.
And then I, I don't have thecontext of what's going on.
So being able to.
(13:20):
Really be able to judge yourselfacross some feedback levels.
Like, is my face open or close?
Am I, is the low point, youknow, too far forward, too far
back?
Is it good?
Am I, you know, all those thingshelp us, right?
But we don't, when we have a badball flight shape, think I need
to change the shape of my swing,like right off the bat.
Like that's, it's too complex todo that.
(13:40):
And people get, and this, thishappened actually when I was
little dazed today, that inbetween lesson where I was like.
In and out.
Rob Failes (13:48):
day did this happen?
Was this early
Eric (13:49):
It was late and no, it was late in the day.
It was in my one, it was in my,I'm trying to think, it was in
my one o'clock lesson and ithappened like towards the end,
probably with like 20 minutesleft.
So my two o'clock lesson, thisis the one I'm talking about.
I was a little dazed and it wasinteresting because it takes me
to my second misconception, um,but I'm not gonna bring that up
(14:11):
yet.
But the fact is, um.
You know, he was Eric, I'mmaking terrible contact.
Okay.
So at least he knows it's askill that's going on, right?
I'm just hitting it poorly.
I, I need to figure out what'sgoing on.
I'm not making good contact.
I'm topping everything.
I'm whatever.
And I.
I mean, he was standing up andswinging the, and I didn't have
(14:32):
the track man on, but I'm wannaguess his, his path was like
seven or eight degrees to theright with like no attack angle,
like hitting up on it and justthinning and shanking, like all
this stuff.
Rob Failes (14:42):
Yeah.
Eric (14:42):
And I was like kind of working through this swing and
I'm like, you know, we'reswinging miles to the right.
He goes, well, that's what I wastrying to do.
Right?
So it's just like.
Something must have gone wrongand the Google machine lit up
and then all of a sudden that's,you know, the literally the
thing he was trying to do waswhat's was hurting him.
(15:03):
And his handicap's gone up fourstrokes in two weeks and he
plays like four days a week.
Like it was bad, like hitting itbad for him from a nine to a 13,
like 50% increase in, inhandicap.
That feels like a lot.
Right.
Rob Failes (15:17):
a lot.
Eric (15:17):
So, um, so we had downwind that misconception for him a
little bit.
Alright, Rob fails.
Anything else you wanna add inthe, uh, blame your swing, um,
Rob Failes (15:28):
Okay.
Yeah, no, I think, I think verysimilar.
I think yours is more towardsthe, the why the ball is doing
what it's doing kind of thing.
Whereas mine is more, just morephilosophical.
Like good and bad is not theanswer.
It's, it is what it is, what
Eric (15:46):
Right?
Rob Failes (15:47):
happened.
Right?
And then.
Is your golf swing allowing youto be skillful?
Right.
And do you have a way offiguring out if it is or is not?
Eric (15:57):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (15:57):
And that's where the help of a coach comes in
oftentimes.
Right?
Eric (16:02):
A hundred percent.
Rob Failes (16:03):
that'd be, that'd be my, that'd be my big one.
Eric (16:06):
Cool.
Okay, now give me your numbertwo.
I went first last time, so you,you lay it on me.
Come on.
Number two, Rob fails.
Rob Failes (16:13):
Number two, the idea of should.
Eric (16:19):
The idea of good.
Rob Failes (16:20):
no should.
Eric (16:21):
Oh, should.
Rob Failes (16:23):
Should,
Eric (16:24):
How about that?
Uh, did you like the Instagramvideo I sent you the other day?
Rob Failes (16:29):
Uh uh.
Yes, I did.
Yeah.
Eric (16:35):
I mean, have to, should, can't, must.
Rob Failes (16:39):
must.
Yeah.
It's pretty brutal.
Eric (16:42):
Alright, so enlighten us a little bit about that.
Rob Failes (16:44):
Yeah.
So it's like I get this questionall breaking day long.
It's should the ball be in mystance?
Where
Eric (16:54):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (16:55):
should my hands be on the club?
should I be aiming here?
What shots should I be trying tohit?
What club should I use here?
What, and it's just always inthis very, there is a correct or
an incorrect of thing, andthat's the beauty of our game,
right?
There are so many options interms of there's really only
(17:15):
like four main rules.
It's like starts on the tee box,legal swings, the ball as it
lies.
Play the course as you found it.
Right.
Most of the rules are when youcan't do one of those two like
last ones.
Right.
And there's some etiquette stuffthat you could say you probably
should do terms of justnavigating the golf course and
(17:37):
being someone that you otherswanna play with, right?
We can say should when it comesto that, and that's pretty much
where it ends.
The way that you get the ballfrom point A to point B, there
is no should.
Right.
It's if you're standing over ashot and you're saying, all
right, well, the, the, the mathis telling me that I should do
(18:00):
this, but in my heart of hearts,I just don't want to do it this
way.
I don't want to hit this shot.
I just, this is not how I wantto do it.
It's okay.
Then don't do it.
Right.
Pick the shot that you want tohit, that you feel good about,
that you're not gonna regret theway you did it afterwards send
(18:21):
it.
All right.
Eric (18:23):
Send it.
Rob Failes (18:24):
That's a right.
That is a, that's a huge, hugedeal.
we have a lot more margin for,for variability in terms of um,
the way we stand, the way wehold it, the way we, again, like
the shot choices that we have,like, there's just so many
(18:44):
options that if we pencilourselves in saying, okay, well
there's a correct that I'mtrying to find.
Oftentimes it'll lead yourattention in very non-relevant
places.
You start to, to say, okay, I'vegotta make sure everything is
exactly perfect for me to beable to play the way I want.
And that's just not a greatplace to be.
I, I, I, I try to give golfersthat you need to give yourself
(19:09):
grace for these, these things tochange, You cannot say, all
right, I'm gonna set it andforget it.
Right?
You are, you're human.
You cannot repeat, you cannotstep in the same river twice, so
to speak.
Um, you've gotta give yourselfthat ability to be flexible and
portable with your skills.
(19:31):
So when people say, how should Ihold it?
I typically say, well, I'll giveyou some ways that you could.
Right.
You could hold it this way, you,you do not have to hold it this
way.
this is where the explorationcomes in.
This is like, okay, I currentlybelieve that this is a good idea
for me, but gonna keep testing.
(19:52):
I'm gonna keep trying out, I'mgonna keep exploring.
I'm gonna keep figuring out whatthe best way is for me to go
about this.
Because Lord knows, I mean, ifyou look at the Hall of Fame,
like it is littered with like,quote unquote bad golf swings.
Right.
Eric (20:07):
Yeah,
Rob Failes (20:08):
there's, uh, there is no should.
That would be my, my number two.
Eric (20:12):
I like that one.
And I would add to it, I mean, Ithink this lends to coaching as
well, because I, I sent you thisvideo.
It was just, it's, look, it'sprobably from the eighties or
nineties, right?
It's like nothing new, but it'sthis big name, golfer, what you
call Hall of Fame golfer, uh,golf instructor.
Excuse me.
(20:32):
And in the 32nd like video, hesaid to hit a good golf shot,
you have to do this and your,your left arm must do this and
this elbow has to do this.
It can't do this, you can't dothis.
Your hip has to do this.
And I was like watching itgoing, you know, he really is
convicted that he believeseverything he says is true.
Right.
Rob Failes (20:52):
Yes.
Yeah.
Eric (20:54):
I think for some people the advice that he gives would
definitely work.
Right?
But at the end of the day, whenyou're gonna play your best
golf, and our philosophy wouldbe, and a lot of teacher's
philosophy would be, is that's,that's indoctrination.
And that sometimes works andsometimes doesn't, right?
I had one today where the guywas, the face was open.
(21:16):
Okay.
Your club face open and impactto the path.
13 degrees on average.
Okay.
Newer golfer.
And he had been playing fine andthen he kinda went away and he,
he text me from, from Floridaand he is like, man, I've added
a stroke to every hole.
He's like, I need help.
So he came back in and that, youknow, and I watched him like the
clubface is just wide open,right?
(21:38):
You could see it on the firstfew swings.
And so what did we do?
We explored some ways to CLO toget the CLO face square or to
close it or less open, whateveryou wanna call it.
And one of them was like,alright, new golfer.
Let's try to str, you know,maybe we'll strengthen the left
hand grip a little bit to see.
I said we explored that option.
Let's try.
Hey, I said let's try somethingwith your left hand grip.
(21:58):
That could be it.
Maybe a potential answer.
Um, guess what happened?
It made it worse.
I,
Rob Failes (22:06):
open.
Yeah.
Eric (22:08):
okay, so
Rob Failes (22:09):
You never know, right?
We
Eric (22:11):
there's no textbook.
Rob Failes (22:13):
yes.
Eric (22:14):
know.
Rob Failes (22:14):
Text
Eric (22:14):
So he, he plays better.
What's that
Rob Failes (22:18):
you, you said, you said text bur
Eric (22:22):
textbook answer?
I'm telling you.
I've got a concussion,
Rob Failes (22:25):
I'm, I'm sorry.
I couldn't
Eric (22:28):
um,
Rob Failes (22:29):
Mm.
Eric (22:30):
textbook.
Um, so.
Rob Failes (22:34):
Yes.
Eric (22:35):
You know, it just hit
Rob Failes (22:36):
idea what's gonna happen before it happens.
Eric (22:38):
correct.
So there is no right, like you,you could look in the textbook
or Burke or whatever we said,and um, you know, a stronger,
more rotated, you know, overgrip could.
Make the club face come in moreclosed
Rob Failes (22:52):
Yes.
Eric (22:53):
for him.
It made it more open.
Why?
I don't really know.
We, we hit a few.
Clearly was uncomfortable forhim.
He didn't like it, you know,could be an anatomical, right?
Uh, it doesn't matter.
It just didn't work, right?
So the point is when you bring astudent in and, and, and what
Robbie's not saying is, um, ifyou come and you're a beginner
(23:15):
golfer.
You're, and someone says, Hey,where's the ball position
supposed to be?
Robbie's not gonna say, well, Idon't have the answer for you.
You're gonna have to explore.
I mean, you're gonna give him ajumping off point.
We're gonna coach him up.
Right?
And so that's like you'rehelping them learn.
But there isn't.
We didn't go to PGA school andthey say, here's the grip,
(23:36):
here's the stance, here's theball position, here's the back
swing, here's the, but.
It.
There's a lot of very high egopeople that teach that think
they have all the answers, andthis is one of the things that
you have to determine as astudent when you go find
yourself a coach, do you want acoach that tells you, you have
to do this and you have to dothis, and you have to do this
and can't do that?
(23:56):
You can't do that.
Or do you want one that's gonnawork with you, your
capabilities?
Your limitations, your learningstyle, to try to find a, a way
to draw out of you, your bestway to play golf.
And that is gonna start withexploration and options and
skill training and variabilityand all these things that we
(24:18):
talk about.
So, um, I like that one.
Really, I, I like the way youframed that for this episode.
There is no should, there's lotsof coulds.
Right.
And don't ever say can't, don'tever say can't in my bay.
Oh.
When people say can't, I'm like,please don't say can't.
Rob Failes (24:36):
Yeah.
Eric (24:37):
Right.
Um, alright, so my number two,my number two.
Moving right along my, there'sjust, we could do a whole show
on this and maybe we will, weprobably will, but I think
social media feeds this one bigtime.
Um, misconceptions around thesetwo words, steep and shallow,
(25:02):
and the biggest one being thatone of them is better than the
other one.
I just told a story about how Imade a, I worked hard with a
player today to make their swingsteeper, right?
Because they were so shallow.
I would say that probably in thesteep and shallow story, which I
(25:24):
don't stand there all day say,in terms of steep and shallow.
'cause a, most people have noidea what you're talking about.
'cause you could be referring toa lot of stuff, but.
For the most part, um, I work onthe quote unquote steepening
equally as much as I doshallowing, I would say with
people.
(25:44):
And this notion that everythinghas to be shallow has actually
just kept me really busy becauseit screws up as many people as
being steep.
And I don't,
Rob Failes (25:54):
Yeah.
Eric (25:55):
it just is what it is.
It is misinterpreting or it'sjust not, it's not gonna work
for the person that's in frontof them.
So.
Um, I think that if I were, if Iwere a golfer trying to get
better, trying to improve, um, Idon't think I'd worry about
steep and shallow at all.
I don't think it would be on mymind.
(26:16):
I, I, I think I would let it go.
I think it would just let it ushit.
Okay, we're gonna make a boldstatement on the Golf
Intervention Podcast today.
People let it go steep andshallow.
Let it go.
Doesn't it feel good?
Take a breath.
Rob Failes (26:30):
it feels great.
Eric (26:32):
Shallow is not better.
Let it go.
Let it out.
Shallow is not better, man.
I feel better.
How about you?
Rob Failes (26:43):
I already feel better,
Eric (26:44):
What do you think?
What do you, what Do you
Rob Failes (26:46):
like I, I think that, um.
It just gets flushed out when wedo skill different terrain, to
be honest with you.
Eric (26:54):
a hundred percent agree?
Yep.
Rob Failes (26:56):
It's like,
Eric (26:58):
I.
Rob Failes (26:58):
if, if the bottom of your golf swing is to the right
and then in our efforts to getit too far left, the shaft pitch
changes or whatever, then great.
I.
Cool.
Sounds great.
Right?
If it, if the bottom swing's toofar in front of the ball, like
to the left, relative to thegolfer, like as the golfer looks
at the golf ball to their leftcloser to the target we're just
exploring moving that bottomswing arc further to the right
(27:20):
or further to the left and theshaft pit changes, great.
Right?
But it's, it's, it's just notsuper relevant.
A lot of times, I think the, theword shallow when it comes to
like.
Backswing downswing.
Geometry is really describingtopic from Dr.
(27:42):
McKenzie that actually isn'tvery easy to see.
It's easier to feel especiallyif you do some rhythm stuff, if
you do some single arm drills,if you do some things like that,
like much easier to feel thatrelationship.
Than it is to see it.
And a lot of times, like youcould be creating this nice
relationship and it look quoteunquote steep, could be not
(28:04):
creating that relationship andit looked, quote unquote,
shallow.
So to me it's like, what's thepoint?
Like, why are we putting ourattention on the geometry of the
shaft pitch?
Really?
Uh, it doesn't, it doesn't movethe needle for me much.
Eric (28:20):
Let it go.
Let it go.
Golfers let it go.
Um, and the term just getsthrown around way too, um, way
too many things.
So to me, like, okay, the, thepitch of the shaft is what
you're, what you're referringto, right?
Like some angle of the shaftearly in the downswing, right?
That's steep.
Well.
I don't know, I'd call thatupright or maybe flatter or, you
(28:43):
know, is it shallow or steep?
To me?
To me, shallow and steep has alot to do with, um, you know,
what the, how the club is movingat impact.
Like, it has nothing to do withthe, with the shaft pitch,
right?
So like some people are verysteep with the shaft, quote
unquote shaft pitch early in thedownswing.
And those are people that areend up being so shallow and
(29:05):
impact a lot of'em.
It's crazy.
Rob Failes (29:07):
angle.
Yeah.
Eric (29:08):
Correct.
So an upward attack angle Iwould refer to as shallow.
Right.
And downward attack angle wouldbe steeper.
That's my opinion
Rob Failes (29:15):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (29:16):
outswing direction.
For a path for a right handerwould be, in my opinion, more
shallow.
Right.
Or out hand is probably steeper,but that's not even a great
descriptor either.
So I don't even use it.
Right.
I just use that was more up ormore down or more end to out or
more out to end.
Right.
And the shaft pitch geometry isjust.
(29:38):
It's a little bit of a waste oftime to even look at.
I think it's so heavilyinfluenced by Instagram because
people can show it, showsomething, and draw lines on it,
and it just gets confusing.
And the fact that like peopleare showing Justin Rose's
pre-shot routine and being like,everyone should do this.
Don't turn in the downswing anddrop your arms straight down.
(29:59):
I'm like, okay, that's gonnakeep me busy for a while in the
teaching bay too.
I can't wait to see that one.
Um, so
Rob Failes (30:07):
Yep.
Eric (30:09):
I guess that just goes into the other stuff we always
talk about, but you can'toversimplify this game in a lot
of ways, right?
Like, don't try to do it.
Don't, don't try to, it's just,it's just golf.
Find a good coach, take alesson, don't talk about shaft
pitch.
Life will be good.
I think that's all I have to sayabout that.
Um, alright, number three.
(30:30):
I can't decide which numberthree I want to do.
I have four just in case youhad, you and I overlapped a
little bit.
Do you have a good number three?
You wanna do your number threenext?
Rob Failes (30:40):
Yeah, I got a solid one.
Eric (30:42):
Okay.
You, you do your number three,how decide.
Rob Failes (30:44):
it's grip pressure versus tension,
Eric (30:48):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (30:48):
right?
So this is a big one recently,right?
Because typically in my lessons,we'll start off depending on
kind of where they're at witheither skill or swing stuff.
Um, if we start with swingstuff, which, if I've got a
beginner or someone who hasn'tplayed a lot, you know, a lot of
times we're starting with swingstuff.
We're saying, okay, how can wehold it?
How can we stand?
(31:09):
How can we get this clubswinging and rotating around us
right?
In a nice general rhythm that wecan develop skill off of right
in.
The biggest barrier to that thatI see is excess tension in the
ri surrounding the wrist,surrounding the forearms and
elbows.
Surrounding the shoulders.
(31:30):
Right.
So really like if I were to goin there and grab the club and
try to move them around, verydifficult to move the club.
What's very interesting withthose same people though, is
that when I look at their grips,there's a lot of space, there's
a lot of air, there's a lot ofgapping the hands and the club.
(31:50):
So like you could literally getyour, you could, you could see
where there could be some motionbetween the grip.
Itself in the hands during theswing, like the grip, like
literally the grip can move inthe hands during the
Eric (32:02):
Oh yeah, I see it all day long.
Rob Failes (32:05):
right?
So I would say they have anexcess of tension with not
enough grip pressure, right?
So what we want is we want toactually get the club very
secured in the fingers, right?
So where there's no gapping,there's no space, there's no
air, there's no way for the clubto move relative to the hand
(32:26):
between.
swing and impact, right?
it impacted if you hit the towor heel.
It's gonna move around a littlebit, obviously.
But if I were to go in there forthese golfers, again, it's very
secure, so I cannot possiblytake the club outta their hands.
But if I try to move them,there's no resistance.
I can easily just pick up theirarms and they fall down like
(32:47):
dead weight.
I can move the club in any whichway possible, there's no.
There's no strain whatsoever.
they're tension free, butthey've got appropriate grip
pressure.
And I'm not talking aboutsqueezing the life out of it.
not talking about like a, Idon't think you can like
actually hold it like a babybird either.
(33:08):
Like, that's garbage too, right?
So have it, have it, have it.
Hold it tight enough, hold itsecure enough where it doesn't
move around in your fingers.
But then give me.
As little tension as possiblearound the wrist, around the
forearm, around the elbow,around the shoulder, right?
Because we want them swingingfreely.
We do not want it to be steered.
(33:31):
So that would be my, my numberthree.
Eric (33:33):
I like it.
Um, I've been working, I've beenworking on my grip strength
recently.
I've been doing it for probablylike a year actually.
Um, I have, um, you know, like asqueezy thing that I use and
then I've been doing.
Like, um, dead weight body hangsthat really help you kind of do
it on for a minute and off for32nd.
You know, you're trying toincrease your grip pressure and
(33:55):
I've been, um, doing someresistance training, which helps
too.
Um, but I can feel, I.
Uh, when my hands get stronger.
And I think that grip strengthis something we don't discuss
enough probably in golf.
Like there's a lot of things wediscuss in golf and grip
strength isn't one, but I cantell when my hands are weaker.
I just don't, I don't play asgood at golf at all.
(34:17):
And I think it plays into whatyou're talking about is I'm able
to support that club with astrong grip that's not, um.
Creating tension up through the,and it just lends to control.
I mean, if you shake hands witha tour player, they, it feels
like you've never shaken handswith a tour player where they
feel like they have a weak grip,like their wrists and hand.
(34:40):
Even the LPGA tour shake handswith a i, um, obviously I'm
friends with one, but, um, uh,what's the name?
Austin ert.
Is that one, is that an lp?
Yeah.
Austin ert, is that her nameanyway, PXG player, she was out
playing one day at CCV.
Um, and I, you know, just mether on the range and shook her
(35:00):
hand.
I'm like, gracious, like they'rejust strong.
Like you cannot be really goodat golf without strong hands.
And so to your point, likethere's this, again,
misconception around like.
W you don't wanna be floppy, youwanna be strong.
Right.
And, but it's a, it's aninteresting one.
I think it's a point well noted.
Rob Failes (35:22):
It,
Eric (35:22):
Um,
Rob Failes (35:23):
free.
It's free from the, basicallythe wrist out.
Eric (35:29):
yeah.
Yeah.
But strong in the hands.
Rob Failes (35:32):
hands.
Eric (35:33):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (35:34):
fingers are secured.
But like, I would even say like,the hand can be soft, like you
can have.
Relatively like up here, as I'mlooking at the camera here, like
up there, up here can berelatively tension free,
Eric (35:48):
Yeah,
Rob Failes (35:49):
like fingers and heel pad up against that, that,
that's, that's solid.
That's not going anywhere.
Eric (35:56):
so apparently around the Master's time, John Daley, I
don't know why this went viral,but at least five people asked
me about this, John Daley.
No, this is part of what youwere saying.
This is part of yours.
Um, John Daley did some thingwhere he said, um, some clip
must have gone around TikTok orsomething where he said, uh,
(36:18):
people get fit for clubs all thetime, but they always play their
wrong size grip.
'cause no one gets fit forgrips.
Nobody.
And like four people, not CCVpeople.
This was like,
Rob Failes (36:30):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (36:30):
friend of mine at church and like somebody like.
How come no one gets fit forgrips?
I said I fit people for grips.
Every single, like every clubfitting, they get fit for their
grip size.
But to your point, like a lot ofmen play grips that are way too
small, in my opinion.
And then the club is movingaround in there.
There's so much space in there.
Rob Failes (36:51):
Yeah.
Eric (36:51):
I've been actually putting some people in the big, like
Bryson grips.
Um.
Rob Failes (36:57):
Mm.
Cool.
Eric (36:58):
There's been some study around that recently, um, that,
that the oversized grip canactually lead to, to more speed.
And I, and I wonder if it's whatyou're talking about, like I can
get it in there and secure itand kind of put a good firm grip
on it, but it's,
Rob Failes (37:13):
see that.
Eric (37:14):
but I can keep my rest of my body loose by doing it.
So, um, yeah, I put some jumbomax on this dude, like he was
playing mid-size, which wasfine, but he's six three.
And he wore an XL glove and itwas small on him.
It was like kind of tight.
And I'm like, bro, hold this.
I just had a jbo Max on a, on arandom nine iron and the, so
(37:36):
people could feel it.
And he was like, oh my gosh.
And he, I ordered him a set andhe, we put it, we put him on and
he said, changed his game cocompletely changed his game.
And I'm like, well, there yougo.
Grip size, huge.
So yes.
Rob Failes (37:51):
That's cool.
Yeah.
Eric (37:52):
Eh, I would argue with John Daly on this one.
People definitely get fit forgrip size.
I mean, every fitting we do, wedo a lot of fittings.
We fit for grip size, so that isit.
Okay.
Number three.
This one's kind of general, sothis could take a little while,
but there's so manymisconceptions around speed.
(38:12):
Okay.
Starting with things like, andwe say this all the time, like
you and I will hear, oh, I know.
My problem is I'm quote unquote.
Swinging too fast.
Um, or I need to really slow myback swing down'cause I know
that's gonna help me.
Um,
Rob Failes (38:29):
Oh yeah.
Yep.
That's
Eric (38:31):
a tough one.
Um,
Rob Failes (38:35):
the same crappy rhythm.
Slower.
great.
Eric (38:40):
rhythm is a big discussion when it comes to that, right?
Um,
Rob Failes (38:43):
we'll talk about that.
Eric (38:45):
so.
Rob Failes (38:46):
I.
Eric (38:48):
Yeah, so many, so many misconceptions around speed and
then even when people are tryingto get more speed, how they're
doing that is can be a bigmisconception too.
Rob Failes (38:58):
Yeah.
Yep.
Eric (38:59):
I would say that the one I see the most is, I know I'm
swinging too fast.
So I think the feel of that forpeople is this sense of like
kinda losing control and losingtheir rhythm in their swing.
So I think that
Rob Failes (39:12):
A
Eric (39:13):
correct.
So, so do me a favor, Robbie,'cause I think you do this
really well.
You do this much better than Ido.
Describe to the podcast listenerthe difference between tempo,
speed, and rhythm.
Please,
Rob Failes (39:27):
So, all right, buckle up.
So tempo is the overall amountof time in the swing.
All right?
So we're gonna use a different,uh, like syllable counts as a
good comp for this.
So.
If I were to make a golf swingwith a one syllable of time,
(39:49):
right?
So my backswing is gonna beJohn, my entire downswing and
follow through is gonna be rum.
So the amount of time it takesto say, John, the amount of time
it takes to say rum is the, isthe duration of time in the
backswing, and then the durationof time in the downswing.
So both words, John backswingrom downswing, and fall through.
(40:11):
Now if I go to a two syllable.
Right.
If we used driver driver moretime, that's a different tempo,
right?
You could say it's a quoteunquote.
That's why I don't like usingfaster or slower.
When we're talking about tempo,it's just more time or less,
right?
Eric (40:29):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (40:29):
It's just a different tempo.
And then typically then we go tothree syllables.
use Virginia.
Virginia, Different tempo moretime.
Alright, so.
That's important.
Distinction number one.
All right, so just for, forsomeone who says, okay, faster
tempo, slower tempo, justunderstand.
(40:51):
Okay.
Faster tempo is less timeslower.
Tempo is just more time.
Eric (40:57):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (40:58):
Rhythm is the pattern of time.
So is your backswing and thenentire downswing involved
through relatively matched, theyslightly different in one way or
another?
What is that ratio?
I.
Eric (41:13):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (41:14):
In my experience, when the rhythm is fairly free,
free, um, when it isuninhibited, those two
timeframes tend to match up ish,right?
It's not gonna be
Eric (41:30):
Close, correct?
Rob Failes (41:33):
but they're close-ish,
Eric (41:34):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (41:35):
So when you go Virginia and then Kat.
Okay.
Eric (41:41):
Right.
Rob Failes (41:41):
most, most of the day.
Eric (41:44):
Yep.
Rob Failes (41:44):
And it's not even Virginia, it's usually
California, uh, cat.
Right.
Eric (41:50):
Yep.
Yep.
Rob Failes (41:51):
what I see.
That would be a differentrhythm.
That would be kind of a veryoff, what I call like an off
time rhythm.
Eric (41:59):
Right.
Rob Failes (41:59):
typically that's very steered, that's very tight,
that's very tense.
you're very much grabbing theclub, forcing it.
Uh, to the ball, things of thatnature that we don't like to
see.
Eric (42:13):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (42:14):
again, the rhythm, the word kind of freedom,
rhythm, kind of the, um, theoverall pattern time.
speed.
If we're talking about it, ismeasured in club head speed at
the ball.
Eric (42:31):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (42:32):
So I want you to think of this more as a.
Total quantity of energy,necessarily the tempo'cause this
is what most people do.
They equate, okay, I gotta swingfaster by increasing the speed
of the tempo, which is just lesstime.
So then they go from Virginia,Virginia drive her cat.
Eric (42:58):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (42:58):
to get more clubhead speed at the bottom.
Eric (43:01):
Right.
Rob Failes (43:01):
in doing so, they give themselves less time.
Probably not that much differentswing, like from a, a, uh, swing
size standpoint, quite a bitshorter swing a lot of times.
And so they end up actuallyhaving less energy at the golf
ball.
Less momentum of less momentumat the golf ball.
They're trying to swing faster,faster, faster, faster, faster.
(43:23):
the club is actually decreased.
Like the amount of momentum theball is getting from the club at
impact is decreasing.
So what we're really looking foris we're looking for an amount
of force.
So again, let's talk about like,let's use like a three syllable
word as an analogy here.
So let's say someone's backswingwas energy and then their tire
(43:45):
downswing was energy, right?
So more or less.
just the amount of work, theamount of force that you're
putting into that, essentiallythat first syllable.
So any swing in like, like aquote unquote true swing, like
you're creating some force intothe club early, and then you're
(44:07):
allowing that force to becomemomentum that swings back and
then back into, into the golfball.
So the more force you put intothat initial syllable.
The further it's gonna traveland the faster it's gonna
travel.
That's why the time stays thesame.
If I give it less force, it'sgonna go slower, but it's also
(44:31):
not gonna go as far.
So the time is gonna be thesame.
I'm gonna be Virginia, Virginiafor a 40 yard pitch shot.
Virginia, Virginia for an 150yard iron shot.
And then Virginia, Virginia fora 300 yard drive.
Eric (44:47):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (44:48):
I'm just putting more force, more work into that
early part of the swing, thenI'm allowing that force to
become momentum that stretchesmy body and swings my arms and
rotates the club back and thenback down into the golf ball.
So just to review, tempo istime, amount of time.
(45:09):
The rhythm is the pattern oftime.
What we're looking for inclumped speed and the feedback
when we see the ball, speed isan amount of momentum and it's
an amount of energy.
It's like how much water are youpouring into the bucket?
Eric (45:26):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (45:26):
five pounds of water in the bucket?
Do you have 10 pounds of waterin the bucket?
Right.
That's what we're looking for.
That water, that amount ofmomentum is accumulated over
time.
So you can think of, okay, I'meither gonna be a very much a
one syllable golfer, which islike, uh, imagine like you're
going from a fire hose, so it'sa rush of water for a shorter
(45:48):
amount of time.
Or I'm gonna go like from myfaucet, from my kitchen faucet
for a longer period of time.
That's my three syllable.
Right?
But it's.
Right.
How much, How
Eric (46:03):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (46:03):
is actually getting that bucket could be the same in
either.
And you can change them foreither way that you're
organizing that.
it's just the difference in theamount of force you're putting
into kind of that firstsyllable.
Eric (46:16):
Yeah.
So I think that, going back tothe misconception,'cause that's
beautifully described, right?
So if you, if you listen to thatand have a little.
To tough time visualizing, justrewind it and listen to it
again.
'cause it, it, it makes totalsense and people use those
terms.
That could be anothermisconception, like tempo,
rhythm, you know, it's all overthe place.
Speed, fast, quick, whatever.
(46:37):
So here's the, here's the mainmisconception, right?
People feel this mis patterningof their rhythm, you know, and
then they, they define that as,I'm swinging too fast.
Right.
So then what do they do?
So they may, in your syllableexplanation, they, they might be
like a, a one, two, half, youknow, it's like a, it's, it's,
(46:57):
or a 1, 2, 3, 1 is probablyanother way to say it, right?
Like you were just describing.
So what do they do?
They slow the back swing down.
Rob Failes (47:06):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (47:06):
that does?
It makes it worse.
Rob Failes (47:09):
Worse.
Eric (47:10):
It makes it worse.
Okay.
So I spend more time speeding.
People's back swings up than Ido slowing their back swings
down.
There is no question about that.
It is very rare for someone tocome in and for me to tell'em
they gotta, we could exploreslowing their backswing down.
Almost never happens.
Sometimes I'm putting but.
Rob Failes (47:30):
Like, um, I, I can tell you the, uh, the research
that was done on this by Dr.
Bob Grober, he found that 90 ishpercent of PGA tour pros were
in, like, basically in fromthree syllables to one.
So when you think aboutVirginia, Virginia, that's three
syllables.
(47:51):
There are so many golfers thatcome to my lesson T that aren't
even close to three syllables,that are like four syllables,
five syllables, six syllables inthe back swing, and now they
don't have any momentum.
'cause it's really hard.
Just think about sitting on aswing set.
All right.
I My favorite analogy.
Is imagine you're on a swingset, right?
(48:12):
giving that a good initial push,and then at some point you gotta
get your hands off and let itswing freely.
happens if you, if that initialpush you're not, if you don't
get enough force into thatinitial push, well, what happens
is.
You gotta go, right?
You never actually get theopportunity to take your hands
off the wheel, right?
(48:33):
You keep your hands, you have tokeep your hands on that child
the whole way up.
And then now it's not swingingat this point.
You just gotta grab and pullthis thing back down.
that's what people feel whenlike, oh, I'm getting quick, I'm
I my swings too fast.
What they're feeling is nomomentum.
I'm just up in space.
(48:54):
I've just changed orientations.
The club is now just somewhereover there.
When it was added out in frontof me, now, I was just somewhere
else in space.
I have no energy built up in thesystem.
Now.
I've just gotta try to find itin a very, very, very short
amount of time.
Um, and by the way, that energyis usually directed to the ball
and towards the target, is whatwe know in terms of the, the
(49:17):
direction that force that wewant to be applied.
Uh, is actually, going in theother direction, right?
We do not want to be pulling thegrip toward the ball and toward
the target, We actually wantthat force.
When that club has momentum,it's kind of moving back toward
the target.
That force is going actuallyaway from the target.
(49:38):
And then it's the momentum ofthe club that swings into the
ball and toward the target.
It's not you forcing it ball ortoward the target.
So that's
Eric (49:48):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (49:49):
Um,
Eric (49:50):
Yeah.
But it makes that,
Rob Failes (49:51):
to,
Eric (49:52):
I think it was a great illustration.
I really do.
And I think people will get thata hundred percent.
And if you really wanna see thebest, I think at this watch,
Rory r Rory McElroy, Roy swing,like, um.
Rob Failes (50:03):
yeah.
Eric (50:04):
Watch how much energy he puts into his initial takeaway.
I mean, his backswing tempo isextremely fast.
I mean, you don't see it becauseit's such a beautiful rhythm and
Yeah, and it's a,
Rob Failes (50:17):
Yeah.
Eric (50:18):
know, but it's a beautiful rhythm.
But he has so much speed, rightfrom the takeaway and, um.
He captures that really well atthe top,
Rob Failes (50:28):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (50:28):
probably the best.
I mean, it's just so cool.
I mean, you have to be great atthat.
If you're gonna be 130 clubspeed at five feet, nine, I
mean, that guy is so good, sopowerful.
And I think that was a great, soif you are someone that thinks
you swing too fast, here's anactionable takeaway.
Start saying some syllables inyour swing.
(50:49):
Right.
What I have found with the helpof Rob fails and some of the
study that he's done with, um.
You know, on this is that whenyou get the, when you get this
right, your contact improves,like dramatically and to the
point where I would say one ofthe largest drivers of good
contact in the swing is actuallyrhythm.
(51:09):
And we wouldn't think of it thatway.
A lot of times we think of it,oh, it's my left arm bending, or
I'm moving on the ball, or I'm,you know, uh, uh, whatever it
is, right?
All this stuff, all the swingstuff, no.
Rob Failes (51:19):
are you swinging freely?
Is the club actually swinging?
Right?
Eric (51:22):
Correct, correct.
So.
Rob Failes (51:24):
you can knock that domino over so many other
dominoes from the skillstandpoint start to kind of fall
in line.
Eric (51:30):
And I know you and I are not big swing trainer people,
but I, I do think the orangeWhip does a very good job of
feeling this for a lot ofpeople.
So that is something, if youhave an orange whip, you can
really train the rhythm of yourswing for sure.
Um, but speed, which I guesspeople referring to as two fast,
it's like you were saying, it'sjust the club.
What, what it's measured rightbefore impact and, and you can
(51:52):
get a lot of speed from onesyllables and two syllables and
three syllables and, you know,and that, that, you know,
Rob Failes (51:59):
as far as
Eric (51:59):
again, John Rum is a one, he's a boom, boom.
Nick Price was a one boom boom.
Like, and they were, theysmashed it.
Right?
Um, and then, then you gotFreddie Couples who's long, one
of the longest of all time.
There's clearly a three, maybeeven more than that.
I don't know.
I haven't really looked atFreddie, but I mean, it's, VJ
Sync would be that way too.
Rob Failes (52:19):
totally, like, I recommend just exploring it,
right.
I, I would not try to change thesyllables.
To try to change anything likeball flight wise, like that's
not why you're doing it.
You're doing it because, okay, acertain tempo, at a certain
amount of, of time, certainsyllable count, it feels freer
(52:39):
to you.
It feels
Eric (52:41):
mm-hmm.
Rob Failes (52:41):
would want to do that for 18 holes or 36 holes,
and you feel like you could doit more consistently without
getting tired or without itchanging much.
Right.
That's why you're doing it,because it doesn't really
matter.
ball doesn't know what syllablecount you are.
The ball knows where the bottomof the swing goes in space, the
face, and the speed, right?
(53:02):
You're gonna layer skill on topof that stuff.
Eric (53:04):
Yeah.
Rob Failes (53:04):
the one that feels the freest to you, the one that
feels the most, like you'regetting the most bang for your
buck, like for the, for whatyou're putting into it.
You're getting the most out ofit, essentially.
Eric (53:16):
Awesome.
Awesome advice there, Rob.
Swell.
Anything else you wanted to addtoday?
Anything interesting?
Rob Failes (53:21):
No, I think, I think we Well, how's your, uh, how are
your fantasy teams?
Eric (53:26):
Um.
You know, Holden Steady, I'vetraded, I've no, not, no, I've
traded all my picks in thisyear's draft, so I, I don't have
anything to, to really lookforward to.
So I haven't really paidattention to the draft.
Um,
Rob Failes (53:41):
so
Eric (53:41):
which is, which is fine.
It is tomorrow.
Which, which
Rob Failes (53:45):
for our dynasty players.
Eric (53:48):
it is.
I do have an aim point thing tobring up though.
Um, I was talking to my friendwho plays.
Uh, she's, she, she's playingsenior LPGA events and, um,
she's, I would say she's easilya top 15 senior female player in
the world, um, based on herresults.
(54:08):
Right?
And she learned AimPoint fromBrian, your, your buddy last
year, right.
So this is, she was a greatputter on the LPGA tour, like
one of the best putters andnever learn name point.
And we're gonna have her on thepod for sure.
I'm just gonna make her come on,she'll do it.
Um, she's got really cool thingsto talk about.
So anyway, when you're that goodat golf, like you're fun to talk
(54:30):
to, right?
So she's prepping right now forsome big tournaments and she's
so good at aim, like her aimpoint is just.
She works on it every day.
It is so good.
She worked with Mark Sweeney onit at least five times and could
never understand it and justdidn't get it because she read
so well with her eyes at thetime then.
(54:51):
Then as her eyes had someissues, like she was all in.
So what she told me was, shegoes, it is.
So she goes, I spend half thetime reading greens that I used
to,
Rob Failes (55:04):
Yeah.
Eric (55:04):
and she said, it's so much faster.
It's not even funny.
You know when Aim Point gets allthis bad rap, like we all watch
Justin Rose at the Masters, takelike four minutes to hit a putt
right in the playoffs.
Like it was
Rob Failes (55:16):
Yeah,
Eric (55:17):
hard to watch.
That was not aim point.
I mean, he did some aim point,but he read it with his eyes and
he, you know, and then he missedby the way.
And so I just wanted to put itout there like they never showed
Ludwig Oberg much, but you,there was some like highlight
Resy.
Rob Failes (55:34):
the best.
Eric (55:35):
He is so fast, it's probably 15 seconds.
He reads a putt and he hits it.
Rob Failes (55:38):
doing aim point, he's
Eric (55:40):
He's doing the writing
Rob Failes (55:42):
aim point.
Eric (55:42):
correct.
So if you wanna know what Aimpoint is, watch Ludwig Oberg
because he does it exactly rightevery time, step by step.
Perfect.
And he reads a, he reads a greenand puts, I mean, it's within 20
seconds, I would say.
It is so fast.
Rob Failes (55:58):
is glorious.
Eric (55:59):
It is so fun to watch.
And that's the way I've beenputting.
Rob Failes (56:03):
Mm-hmm.
Eric (56:04):
he's, he's moving up my board fast.
I mean, that guy's just, he's acyborg man.
Like, he's so cool and he just,he's meant for golf.
But I was asking her how manywomen she thought like that play
in the senior US open stuff, youknow?
'cause she's playing againstAnnika and Julia concert's, like
that group.
Right.
Um, she said there's probablyfive total that she could figure
(56:27):
that are doing it.
Isn't that interesting?
I think it's just like.
Rob Failes (56:32):
yeah, they just.
Yeah.
Eric (56:35):
But she's so in, it's so cool to talk to her about it.
'cause she's like,
Rob Failes (56:39):
Yeah,
Eric (56:39):
and she could punt.
So what?
You watch her read green andit's like really, really cool.
So anyway, I just thought I'dbring that up.
Like I had someone today and Ijust love aim points, so I'm
just bringing it up again.
Um, a new golfer that waslearning it and they're just
like first putting lesson andthe fact that he could have an
idea of what the putt wassupposed to do.
(57:02):
And then judge himself off of itjust made it so much fun for him
and he got better so fast.
It was crazy.
Rob Failes (57:07):
Yep,
Eric (57:08):
like, I've tried to practice putting multiple times
in the last year and a half, andhe spent a, he said, I spent
like five or 10 minutes.
I don't know what I'm doing, soI just leave.
Right.
He never had any way to.
And he had drills to do.
I mean, I've given him drillsstuff like, but you know, like,
but he would do it and he'd say,I just hid it.
It was like I was hitting itinto the ocean.
I had no idea what I was doing.
And so all of a sudden, once youcan read and then have yourself
(57:30):
to judge yourself off too, itwas really, really cool.
So anyway, I just thought I'dadd that into the end.
It's just one of those topicsyou and I talk about a lot and
um,
Rob Failes (57:37):
Yeah,
Eric (57:38):
a huge proponent of it.
Rob Failes (57:40):
I don't know how to teach putting or green reading
without it.
Honestly.
Eric (57:45):
And the whole push to like
Rob Failes (57:47):
Hey, hey Rob, like, can you teach me how to read
greens?
And I'm not gonna do any point.
I'm gonna be like, uh.
Eric (57:54):
the old dump, the water cup on the green.
Rob Failes (57:56):
I
Eric (57:57):
take a,
Rob Failes (57:58):
I'm, I don't think I'm gonna, I just might not do
it.
I'll just be like, sorry,
Eric (58:03):
I don't, I don't know what I would say because it feels so
disingenuous at this point.
You know?
Rob Failes (58:08):
yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Eric (58:11):
So anyway, that is our show for today.
We thank you for tuning in.
Rob fails.
Thank you as always for joiningme.
Um, it's fun for us.
We do this as a hobby.
We're just glad y'all tune in,listen to what we have to say
from time to time.
It's like pretty fun.
Send us a message if you'd like,like send us an email, the golf
intervention gmail.com.
Let us know what you think ofthe show.
Find us on substack at the golfintervention.substack.com.
(58:35):
Don't look for golf tips from us'cause we don't do'em.
So don't look for'em.
Ain't happening.
We put some content on Substack,but at the end of the day, I
think you know why we don't putput golf tips out there.
But we appreciate you tuning in.
We hope you have a great week.
We hope your golf season's offto a great start.
Anything else you'd like to addhere, Ron
Rob Failes (58:57):
Oh, enjoy the, uh, the better weather.
Everyone.
Eric (59:01):
and NFL draft tomorrow, we'll get an update on the next
episode.
Rob Failes (59:04):
Where's Genty going?
Eric (59:06):
Hi.
Hi.
He's going.
Hi.
Rob Failes (59:09):
Top 10.
You think he's going top 10?
Eric (59:11):
I would take him.
He's that good.
We'll see.
Rob Failes (59:15):
the Bears are gonna, I think the bears are gonna
trade up and get'em.
my, that's
Eric (59:19):
Wow.
What a prediction.
Rob Failes (59:21):
They're gonna get 'em, they're gonna get'em at
like six or six, five or sixmaybe.
Eric (59:26):
I guess we'll see generational talent.
Alright.
Thank you all
Rob Failes (59:29):
right.
Eric (59:30):
next time on the golf intervention.
Take care.
Rob Failes (59:33):
Cheers.
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