EP 48: The Truth About Pain and Golf Performance with Dr. Andy Royalty

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📝 Show Notes:

In this episode of The Golf Intervention, we sit down with Dr. Andy Royalty from The Royal Treatment Physical Therapy in Midlothian, Virginia to explore a topic every golfer needs to understand: pain and its impact on performance.

We break down why ignoring pain or “toughing it out” on the course is not only unwise—but often the very thing that holds players back from real improvement.

Dr. Royalty shares clinical insights and practical advice on:

• Why you can’t ignore pain and pretend it won’t affect your swing or results
• The two primary types of pain (acute vs. chronic) and how they’re best treated
• The leading causes of back and elbow pain in golfers—and how to prevent them
• What treatment paths can actually get you out of pain and back to better performance
• Whether or not you should continue playing through injury or after a planned surgery

If you’re a golfer trying to balance the love of the game with the limits of your body, this conversation will give you clarity, direction, and hope.

🔗 Resources & Links:

• Learn more about Dr. Andy Royalty and The Royal Treatment PT: https://www.theroyaltreatmentpt.com
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://thegolfintervention.substack.com
• Follow us on Instagram: @golfinterventionpod

🎧 Listen now and take your first step toward a pain-free, high-performing golf game.

Episode Transcript

Tyler (00:01):
Today's episode is brought to you by the premium
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And we would of course like tothank all of our listeners for
tuning in, you make it all worthwhile.
If you would like to support theshow or sign up for our free
newsletter, you can do that atthegolfintervention.substack.com

(00:21):
or follow the link in the shownotes.

Eric (00:24):
Welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast.
have a special guest on the showtonight, Dr.
Andy Royalty.
He is a Doctor Physical therapyand the founder of the Royal
Treatment Therapy andPerformance.
And I will say, Andy, if yourlast name is Royalty and you're

(00:44):
a physical therapist, you haveto name it the royal treatment,
you have to, like you had noother choice, right

Andy Royalty (00:54):
when I came up with the name, I was like, I, I
ran the name different names of,you know, businesses by one of
my good buddies who's a physicaltherapist.
And, I was like, it's way toocorny to do the royal treatment.
He's like, no, that's perfect.
It's perfect because you're, youknow, you're last name and
you're, you're going above andbeyond for, for your clients.
So yeah, that's kind of

Rob Failes (01:14):
Oh, love it.

Andy Royalty (01:14):
out.

Eric (01:15):
You do treatment.
So it's like, I, I just don'tsee how it could be anything
else.
I think you per picked theperfect name for your, for your
establishment there.
And Andy is, located here in theGreater Richmond area also where
I am.
So we have.
Some clients who, who work withboth of us.
And, uh, we go to the samechurch.
If you're watching this on theYouTube, you'll see the chapel

(01:37):
hat that I've got on.
So, um, anyway, a very, verygood physical therapist and
trainer and we're excited tohave'em on.
And really, the reason thatwe're having him on is because.
I wanted to have a discussionaround golf and pain.
I think it's one of those thingsthat people don't talk about,
right?
Especially on our end.
And I mentioned this on thepodcast to Rob before, I feel

(01:58):
like people will just straightup lie to us in a like, Hey,
tell me about your shoulder.
Hey, something going on withthat hip.
And they'll be like, Nope.
And I, and again, I don't thinkthey're lying by the way.
I think that they're trying hardto.
Sort of ignore the pain, right?
And so they have to have thismental place of like, ah, it
doesn't bother me.
It doesn't bother me.
but we all know that golfperformance is definitely

(02:21):
affected when we have pain.
And pain is gonna come fromsomewhere, right?
And so I wanna say that there's,there's ways that we can address
it, right?
If you go see a, a person who'svery smart and good at what they
do, like Andy,, we.
As golf instructors are notgoing to be fixing your pain in
the golf lesson necessarily.
Maybe with some golf swing stuffthat we see.

(02:41):
But if you need to get work,you're gonna go see a
specialist.
So we are glad to have you onDoc and really I think that,, a
couple questions I had for youto start with before we get into
pain discussion is if you go onand you look at his website,
which I'll link in the shownotes, you'll see he is at a
golf course.
Right.
He's at,, independence GolfClub, which is

Rob Failes (03:01):
Oh, cool.

Eric (03:01):
Public facility here in Midlothian, which is a greater
kind of greater Richmond area,and the host of the state open
in Virginia.
so golf is central to yourpractice.
So has it all, have you alwaysbeen a golfer?
Have you always wanted to be.
A physical therapist and a and atrainer that was working with
golfers.
And tell me, the origin story ofAndy Royalty here.

Andy Royalty (03:24):
Thank you Eric and Rob for having me on it.
It's an honor.
I appreciate it.
Uh, but yeah, I mean, uh, I waspretty much a, a baseball player
growing up and then it wasthrough a couple shoulder
injuries where I got intophysical therapy.
And then, uh, I've been aphysical therapist since 2014,
and then before that I was anathletic trainer.

(03:45):
over 11 years I've been a pt.
And it wasn't until, you know,we moved up here in 2020, um,
with my wife, uh, two kids and apregnant wife.
And, and so we decided that, Iwas like, I'm just gonna start
my own thing, because I wasn'twith the way.
Traditional physical therapy wasgoing with a therapist, seeing,

(04:08):
you know, 20 patients in a day,not really being able to give
great care.
And so it was a matter of mejust being really passionate
about, uh, golf.
And I, I picked up golf, uh, mysophomore year of college, and
that's where I, you know, got,got the golf bug.
And, and so we had a, a coursecalled Motor Learning in School.

(04:31):
Uh, that was all about neurologyand how the brain controls the
body, and so one of the projectswe had to do.
Was be able to teach one of ourclassmates a skill that they
were not used to doing.
And so I had to teach the golfswing to of, uh, one of my
classmates

Rob Failes (04:47):
Nice.

Andy Royalty (04:47):
went over the steps on how we taught that.
It was really, where it kind ofstarted for me.
And then.
When I had golfers come into theclinic, when I was working down
in Greenville, South Carolina,uh, I used to get super excited.
Like I was just like, I couldn'twait for them to come in and me
be able to work with'em.
They wanted to get back to golfand that's where I was like,
gosh, this doesn't even feellike a job to me because I'm

(05:10):
teaching somebody how to getback into a sport that they love
and they're motivated, they'regonna do everything you tell
them.
They tend to be much moremotivated to get better.
Uh, and so that's where I foundthat like.
These people were gonna meet me,you know, halfway.
I was gonna give them all I hadand they were gonna work as hard
as they could to get back to thesport that they loved.

(05:32):
And that's kind of where itstarted.
And, and I just, I mean,honestly, like every day that I,
you know, 65% of the people wework with play golf.
And so just being able to workwith those people is.
It's honestly like it's a dream.
Being able to help golfers getback to playing golf, pain free,
that is, that is like my passionand I love doing it.

(05:56):
So that's kind of where it allstarted.
And I mean, it's just been onepatient after the other, and
other people telling otherpeople.
It's just been really neat how,you know, we came into contact
with each other, Eric was just,you know, a matter of just
working with people in theRichmond area and, you know,
word of mouth spreading.
So it's been, it's been awesome.
I love it.

Eric (06:15):
What percentage of your clientele is more athletic
training versus physicaltherapy?

Andy Royalty (06:21):
say because we have, I would say it's 50 50
within the 65% of the golfersthat we see.
So 50% are golfers that aredealing with some type of pain,
and they want to just be able toplay like.
whole 13 without their backkilling them.
Uh, and then you've got anotherhalf which don't have any

(06:41):
injuries.
They are just in a positionwhere they're losing distance,
they're getting older, they knowthey're losing flexibility.
They need, they know they needto do something to essentially
get their bodies in shape to beable to hit the golf ball
further or just be able tomaintain the distance that they
have.
So.
say it's 50 50 as far as the,the golfers that we work with.

Eric (07:06):
That's super cool.
It's, it's fun too.
I know on our side with theteaching end, like Rob and I do.
It's fun when people come in andthey want to, they really want
to do better, right?
They're, they're, they're comingto see you in that sense.
'cause they're like, Hey, here Iam and I wanna do better.
And so much of our teaching iskind of like, Hey, I'm actually
doing worse than I used to and Ijust need you to help fix me up

(07:27):
a little bit.
So there's the fix me part ofit.
And then there's the long termgrowth part of it, right?
Which is super cool.
And, uh, through my years inRichmond, it's been 20, almost
20 years in Richmond, I'veworked with a bunch of different
trainers and physical therapiststhat I've come to know at the
country club away from thecountry club.
And that team approach tocoaching is, I think, so

(07:49):
important, you know, that wecould kind of communicate with
one another like you sent me,, avoice, uh, note about a student
that we both work with some ofthe stuff that he was dealing
with.
And, um, and, you know, we cancommunicate back and forth about
things like that.
And I think that's really.
It's almost imperative to havethat team of people that you can

(08:09):
really communicate with.
Do you find that golfprofessionals that you've been
communicated with are open toyou being a consultant on their
students' performance, or is ita little more closed minded or
do you get kind of a mix ofthings?

Andy Royalty (08:22):
are definitely open to it because they really
enjoy what they're doing.
They, they want to be able toprovide the best.
Lesson to the client thatthey're working with.
I think others are sooverwhelmed with but then they
have the administrative tasks ofthe, you know, running the golf

(08:42):
shop.
They've just got so much ontheir plate.

Rob Failes (08:45):
Yeah.

Andy Royalty (08:46):
the last, the last thing they want to do is or
answer a text or, or dosomething extra beyond what
they're currently doing.
I mean, lot of these, these PGApros, they're, they're putting
in more than 40 hours a weekand,

Rob Failes (09:03):
Oh yeah.

Andy Royalty (09:03):
know, they're, they're getting a little,
they're getting spread thin.
And so I that.
And so I'm, I try to say, Hey,like, I'm here for you if you
want to bounce ideas off of me.
And in summer, open and willingto, to chat.
And Eric, you're one of thosepeople that, that I love being
able to hear from and just beingable to bounce ideas, um, back
and forth.
So, uh, so yes, it is.

(09:25):
It is sometimes challenging,but.
Uh, you can only just be therefor them if they want to be
accepting of wanting to discuss,you know, some of the challenges
and physical limitations thatsome of their students are
having.
Then, uh, some, because, youknow, some of these instructors
as they're working with their,their students, you know,
they're, they're telling'em,Hey, you know, I need you to

(09:46):
turn a little bit more into thebackswing, or, I want, I want
your hands to, you know, not getas steep, but.
In all reality, they may bedealing with some type of
flexibility limitation that justdoesn't allow them to get into
that correct position.
And so just being able tocommunicate with the PGA
instructor on those limitationscan a lot of times allow them to

(10:07):
work around them or just knowthat, hey, maybe we can work on
a few other things while they'reimproving that flexibility or
they're working on it over thesenext couple weeks.
So it just gives them a betterunderstanding of how they can
work around some of thoselimitations and, and ultimately.
Is gonna help the student, youknow, long term and, and be able
to provide, you know, the bestinstruction that you can during

(10:28):
those lessons.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
That makes great sense.
Thank you.
And that, turns me to my nextquestion here.
So everybody, no matter what,wants to hit the ball farther,
right?
They want to hit the ball a lotlonger.

(10:50):
And I think that as soon as theythink that in their mind,
they're jumping to how fast canI swing the club?
You know, there's also.
A launching of the ball elementto it that I think we can
accomplish in lessons that areway easier than just swinging
and hitting it harder.
But also when you take on clubhead speed as an improvement,
there's some real considerationsthere.

(11:11):
Are there not Andy,'cause Ithink that if, if the body isn't
really ready to take that on,can't that be really detrimental
and potentially even leading toinjury in a way that's really
gonna set the player back.
Where do you see him from thatstandpoint?
Right.
Yeah, I, I think that in regardsto, there's so many ways to hit

(11:32):
the ball further.
So I mean, there's people thatcan, they can have the same
exact swing speed, but still hitthe ball further.
I mean, a matter of just hittingit more on, the center of the
club face is gonna allow for youto have a better smash factor,
which is gonna lead to more ballspeed.
Um, there's things you guys cando by having them shallow out
the club a little bit more,change the angle of attack,

(11:52):
decrease spin rate.
So there's a lot of things that.
That, that you guys can do onyour end to be able to help them
hit the ball further.
And then there's other thingsthat, you know, we can do from a
physical therapy, uh, trainingperspective, uh, where we can
essentially get their bodymoving a little bit more
efficiently so that they canincrease the swing speed.
Um, so I think it's kind ofmultifaceted when it comes to.

(12:14):
People wanting to increase swingspeed and there's the hot topic
of speed sticks and, you know,super speed protocol, the stack
system.
And I think those are good andpeople can get more swing speed
by using those things.
But oftentimes what can happenis if they don't have the
adequate flexibility, theadequate strength, uh, to be
able to contain, uh, be able tohandle that speed Can, you know,

(12:40):
uh.
Result from that.
So that's something that we'veseen before too, where people
have come to us when they said,Hey, I've been doing speed
training and I, you know, pulledsomething in my back when I was,
you know, you know, level threetrying to really push it.
Uh, and that's where we kind ofhave to sit back and say, Hey,
like you're, we gotta take it afew steps down and really focus

(13:01):
on flexibility first before westart really implementing the
speed training.
Uh, but I don't want to get toomuch into a, down into a can of
worms yet.
Uh, but yes, I.
I see that pretty often.

Rob Failes (13:11):
Like you said, yet we are definitely going down
the, the, into the can of worms,just not yet.

Andy Royalty (13:17):
I, I have a quick Um, so.
Have y'all, um,'cause I knowy'all have had some other
physical therapists on, on thepodcast.
you, have y'all, um, Rob,especially, have y'all worked
with other physical therapists,uh, or, uh, personal trainers
that have, uh, your studentshave been working with, that you

(13:39):
guys have been open to, likediscussing things

Rob Failes (13:41):
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Yeah.
I've had at least three now, um,that I've kind of cycled
through.
Um, and then now it's to thepoint to where if they need
help.
Um, Dr.
Michael k, he's a, he's aphysical therapist out in.
Uh, west Coast, uh, working withTony Greco and Chris Walkie, um,
and they've got an awesomeonline program that I'll, I'll

(14:03):
send students to.
That's, that's the limit, that'sthe limitations of what I've,
what I've found.
And, and, uh, I, I trust Dr.
Mike with, um, my education andkind of what I do with my
students on a daily basis.
Um, so I have no, uh, nohesitation to, to send my

(14:24):
students his way as well, so.
So now I want to get into pain,pain itself.
I know there's a coupledifferent types of pain.
I'm not an expert in this,obviously, that's why we're
having you on the show today.
But, from my understanding,there's acute pain and there's
chronic pain.
What is the difference betweenacute and chronic pain?

(14:45):
How do you address'emdifferently?
What about the understanding ofhow that works and affects the
person?
And how does someone like youtake that on to help alleviate
whatever type of pain they haveand put'em on a track to being a
pain-free person in life?
And golfer also.

Andy Royalty (15:02):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So you have acute pain, which isessentially pain that's been
lasting less than six months.
So once somebody's been dealingwith pain for longer than six
months, it becomes chronic.
And so, uh, acute pain can beanywhere from, uh, an event that
occurred where they just.
They have been hitting off of amat, uh, and taking a lot of

(15:23):
swings and a lot of wedges, andthey're somebody that takes, you
know, more, more of a deepdivot.
Uh, and they end up with, youknow, one swing and boom, my
elbow's been killing me

Rob Failes (15:34):
Hmm.

Andy Royalty (15:34):
of like an acute event.
Uh, but then you get people thatbeen like, yeah, I've been
dealing with this back pain, uh,for about a couple months now.
It's still considered acute andit's just, it.
I don't remember doing aspecific thing that caused it.
It just kind of came ongradually.
with those people, I mean, uh.
We find that if somebody's beendealing with symptoms less than

(15:56):
six months, the chances of themgetting better are fairly,
pretty quick as far as timelinegoes.
Uh, somebody that's been dealingwith symptoms for a while, uh,
we have found that it's veryinteresting that.
Because you get people that arelike, oh, I've been dealing with
back pain for 20 plus years, andit's like, okay, like what's

(16:16):
exactly going on here?
And we've, we've found thatthere's, um, Adrian Lowe is a
PhD, uh, neuroscientist, that,that studies pain.
And, uh, and he, they found thattissue healing takes about a
year for tissues to heal.
so, so why is somebody havingpain past one year?
And the question becomes is, isthe, is.

(16:39):
Is, is the tissue still injuredand that's why they're having
pain.
But what they found is that thatneurological signal, uh, in the
body, you know, telling thebrain that there's a threat, uh,
going on in the body, which islike the pain system, uh, the

Rob Failes (16:54):
Hmm.

Andy Royalty (16:54):
system going off, they found that these people,
their were healed, but they werestill having pain.
It was more of a.
Neurological, uh,

Rob Failes (17:03):
Wow.

Andy Royalty (17:03):
that feedback loop was going so long.
And so those are the down withand say, Hey, like, you know, it
takes about a year for thosetissues to heal and you're
dealing with symptoms greaterthan a year.
This is, uh, that's where youtry to educate them and there's
like a little graph, I'll drawpeople on like a whiteboard and
kind of explain to them that wehave to do exercises and things

(17:23):
that are gonna help decreasethat sensitivity of the brain
and, and, and limit thatsensitivity to where they can
start to do activities andexercises that don't set that
alarm system off.
Um, and that's how you tap intothe system.
Uh, but those are, that's kindof.
pain in a nutshell, but when itcomes to working with people

(17:45):
that are dealing with symptomslike less than a year or less
than six months, usually whatwe're doing with those people is
are trying to figure out like,okay, where's the pain coming
from?
Is this like a muscular problem?
Is this like a, a tendonproblem?
Uh, is this a ligament problem?
Um, tendons is what connectsmuscles to bone and ligaments is

(18:07):
what connects bone to bone.
Okay?
And so people can be dealingwith, with pain and it could be,
you know, bone related or one ofthose soft tissue structure, uh,
soft tissue structures that'scausing the discomfort.
And so really when I evaluatesomebody, I figure out, okay,
where's the pain coming from?
So we'll do like special tests.
We'll try to figure out.

(18:27):
We'll palpate, we'll figure outlike where's the pain coming
from?
The second thing we want tofigure out is like, what is the
underlying problem here?
Like, why did this happen in thefirst place?
Is it because of poor range ofmotion, or is it because of
weakness around that area that.
That is causing, uh, you're notable to control that joint very
well.
So you're putting too muchstress in that area.

(18:49):
So therefore you start tooverload the tissues, which then
leads to injury.
Uh, so those are the things thatwe try to figure out during our
exam.
Um, and, but for example, mostoften, if we're dealing with
somebody with low back pain,some of the things that we see
with those people are.
When the golf swing end, it's a,it's a violently rotational

(19:11):
movement, and so you need torotate through the hips.
You need to rotate through themid back, and oftentimes what
happens is end up rotating toomuch through their lumbar spine,
which is like the lower back.
And that lower back isn't reallymade to rotate very much.
There is a little bit ofrotation involved in the

(19:32):
biomechanics of the the golfswing.
But most of the rotation occursthrough that upper mid back and
through the hips.
And if somebody's tight throughthe hips and or through the mid
back, their body's gonna try toget it through that lower back.
And that's where a lot of issuescan occur.
So oftentimes when I'm seeingsomebody with low back pain.

(19:55):
Usually the first thing we'rechecking is like, how's their
hip mobility?
How is their thoracic spinemobility?
And oftentimes they're stiff inboth areas and so not so most
physical therapists, they'regonna want to treat the low
back, which I think is reallygood.
But if you don't fix theunderlying problem to why this
happened in the first place,they're gonna end up going and

(20:17):
playing multiple rounds andbeing like, gosh, my back flared
up again.
What the heck?
What's going on here?
So with those people.
We'll do things well, I kind ofseparate it into three phases
when I work with clients.
Phase one is going to be to tryto get their symptoms under
control.
So if it's like the muscles areguarded because they're, you

(20:37):
know, the brain senses pain inthat area lot, oftentimes
they'll tighten the musclesaround the joint to try to
protect it.
And that's like your body's wayof like creating stability and.
The muscles being really tightaround that area can cause
discomfort.
And so if the muscles are reallytight, guess what happens to the

(20:57):
blood flow to that area?
It gets restricted, and sooftentimes what we'll do is like
we'll do some dry needling wherewe take really small needles
like acupuncture needles, and godown into the muscle.
And we will add in a little bitof electrical current to those
muscles and get'em pumping.
And that pumping effect causesfresh blood flow to come to

(21:17):
those muscles, get them torelease.
Then from there we'll do likesoft tissue work.
Um, that's like in phase one.
We'll do everything we can toget their symptoms under
control.
Um, that has been shown to bereally beneficial.
We had a

Rob Failes (21:29):
Hmm.

Andy Royalty (21:30):
that had been, had been dealing with.
Back pain for and he couldn'trotate in the golf swing.
Once we dry needle his back andgot him really loose, he was
like, this is the best my backhas ever felt.
He was just like amazed at the,at the, the results of it.
Um, but then from there weworked on.
two, we started to work on moremobility through the hips,

(21:51):
through the mid back.
Uh, did what we could to, toloosen those areas up with some
more manual therapy.
We'll do like dry needling tothose areas, or we'll do soft
tissue work or we'll do manualstretching.
And then we'll teach themexercises to start moving within
that new range that they gain.
And once they start to, to movethrough the hips and get those
hips moving and start isolatingthose areas and the mid back.

(22:14):
from there, they start to learnactually how to rotate through
the mid back and the hips.
And then from there, they'retaking a lot of less stress off
of the, the lower back, and sothen they start to feel a little
bit better.
But then phase three is reallyall about strengthening and
stabilizing that area andteaching those muscles how to
control that movement, which isreally, really important because

(22:34):
that's, that's really where therubber meets the road.
Yes.
We get them symptom free, we getthem.
Oh, uh, we get them symptom freeand then from there we end up
essentially strengthening andgetting them to control that
area, and that's what decreasesthe chances of like their low
back pain coming back down theroad.

(22:56):
So that's really our focus whenit comes to working with clients
is a, figure out where thesymptoms are coming from.
B, figure out what's theunderlying issue that's leading
to this, and then three.
You know, how can we keep thisfrom coming back

Rob Failes (23:09):
Yep.

Andy Royalty (23:10):
And then from there they, they routine that
they're to be working on like acouple times a week so that they
can continue to build strengthand decrease the chances of
like, you know, these issuespopping up again.
Okay.

Rob Failes (23:24):
Yep.

Andy Royalty (23:24):
So that's, I would say that's the biggest thing in
a nutshell, um, on when we'reworking with golfers that are,
that are dealing with pain.
Does all that make sense, Roband Eric?

Eric (23:33):
Oh

Rob Failes (23:34):
For sure.

Eric (23:34):
it makes

Rob Failes (23:34):
Yeah.

Eric (23:35):
sense.
And think about, think aboutthe, the, the normal American
that's playing golf, right?
We're sitting at a desk all day.

Andy Royalty (23:43):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (23:43):
are getting tight.
We're staring at, we're staringat our phone.
So we're getting the you know,like forward neck look,

Andy Royalty (23:51):
Right.

Eric (23:52):
a sudden Andy says, Hey, if you have a tight upper
thoracic spine and bad shouldersand tight hips, you're gonna
have a hard time.
Uh, with your lower back andthat guy's actually buying speed
sticks and things and trying tohit bombs, and it's like, no,
no, no.
We've got some work here on thestructure to deal with.
Right?
And I will tell you that this iswhat I see all the time, we can

(24:13):
see it in the bay.
Like we can see the, you know,you can see the look, you can
see the hips and you're kindalike, know, you have to have a
little bedside manner with thestudent at times.
'cause you're kind of like, oh,well how's this feel?
And how's that feel?
And to offend anybody.
But you also, when they'retrying to

Andy Royalty (24:30):
Correct.

Eric (24:31):
sort of the high end of their performance, you also as
the coach have gotta be like,Hey, um, maybe the capabilities
aren't quite there physically.
But maybe there is a solution tothat as well.
Right.
So Rob fails, how do you, how doyou take on that approach with
the student who's you clearlysee they don't have the movement
capabilities, but they're tryingto really get

Rob Failes (24:51):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (24:51):
it.
So what's the, what's thediscussion like for you on that
end?

Rob Failes (24:56):
For sure.
Yeah.
And just based off of myeducation, what I try to do is I
try to give them the beststarting point as I possibly
can.
Um, I see a lot of people whoare, their center of gravity is
pitched way, way, way forward.
They do not have an ability totake a full inhale.
Um, I see them walk poorly.

(25:16):
I see them, um, just in generalstanding in a way.
Um, that's decreasing thatspace, decreasing that ability
to get air, to get blood flowinto those places.
So, um, I try to get theirentire foot on the ground.
I find like if I can get them tosecure a heel, to secure a
midfoot, to secure a base of thebig toe.

(25:38):
And then if I can get them tojust give me a full inhale in a,
in a way that is expanding theribcage, is expanding the area
around the pelvis as opposed tojust keeping it up in the mouth.
Um, and if I can get them to,again, just moved, it's just
give me a little bit of likebounciness to what you're doing.

(25:58):
Like gimme a little bit of like,you know, you can, you can skip,
you can jump rope, you can, um,you know.
Anything that you can do that's,that's gonna get, um,
essentially your Dr.
Kay calls it your guts, but likeanything you can do to get your
guts up off the pelvic floor,um, is what I try to, to

(26:19):
encourage not only in the golfswing, but just.
And the warmup even, uh, beforethey start swinging.
So I try to get them into awarmup.
I try to get them standingbetter.
I try to get them breathingbetter.
And then I see a lot of golferswho have concepts in their swing
that's giving them a lot of paintoo.
So it's like side bend is like agood one.
Like, okay, people have beentold that they have to like side
bend in their golf swing.

(26:39):
It's like.
Yes.
Like if you hook me onto 3D,you're gonna see, like if you're
separating these planes inmotion, you're gonna see like
the side bend graph going up.
But does that mean that yourspine is isolating this kind of
very two dimensional kind ofside bend movement?
No, that doesn't happen in agolf swing.
So.
You know, from there it's a lotof concepts.
Like they think they're supposedto turn in a golf swing, which

(27:02):
is keeping everything kind of,all these segments kind of
locked together and kind ofmoving all kind of in the same
speed at the same direction.
And I try to get them toactually separate and try to
create, um, basically a relativemotion where one side's moving
forward relative to another.
Um, and that's pretty much whereI stopped anything as far as
like, hey, but like, you know,what do you think about this?

(27:24):
What do you think about that?
I was like, all right, wellthat's a little bit above my pay
grade.
But what I find is that if Icould just get people standing
better, breathing better, um,then I just had a client the
other day like, who, um.
He, he kept kind of likereferencing his lower back and I
just had him stand in kind oflike a fencer, kinda like a,
like a warrior two pose and justbreathe for me a little bit.

(27:45):
And I just kind of cued him alittle bit to like, Hey, can you
get some, can you get some airdown here?
Can you expand back here?
And like.
You know, about 20 minutes intoit, it's like, yeah, lower back
feels better.
So again, it's just a lot ofthat really kind of simple stuff
that we learned from, um, Dr.
K, but I don't wanna talk toomuch, Andy.
It's, uh, it's, you're, you'rethe expert here, so, um, any

(28:07):
thoughts on that?

Andy Royalty (28:08):
uh, some of the guy or I, I feel like most men
are very, uh oh, what is it?
Very stubborn.

Rob Failes (28:16):
Yes.

Andy Royalty (28:17):
So they would rather take like four, 200
milligram than go see a physicaltherapist.

Rob Failes (28:22):
Yes,

Andy Royalty (28:23):
You know what I mean?

Rob Failes (28:24):
correct.

Andy Royalty (28:25):
way easier, right.
don't have to spend time outtatheir day to

Rob Failes (28:28):
Yeah.

Andy Royalty (28:29):
So, um, I also find that as well, that.
That some people are just like,yeah, yeah, I've been dealing
with this back pain for a

Rob Failes (28:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Andy Royalty (28:36):
okay.
You know, it's, it's gonna befine.
I'll just pop a few and getthrough my round.
Um, and so you try to workaround that, right?
Because you don't want to like

Rob Failes (28:45):
For sure.

Andy Royalty (28:46):
need to see this physical therapist.
And in their mind they don'treally have that, you know, so
you

Rob Failes (28:51):
Right.

Andy Royalty (28:51):
figure out who you're working with.
You gotta kind of like plantthat seed and okay, this guy
does seem very, or this femaledoes seem very interested.
You know, getting help.
Um, so yeah, I see it both ways.
Some people are willing to getthe help.
Some people are just like, Hey,I've been dealing with it for
this long.
I'm, I want to go ahead and, uh,and just continue on my merry

(29:11):
way.

Rob Failes (29:12):
Yeah,

Eric (29:13):
It's that whole

Rob Failes (29:14):
for sure.

Eric (29:15):
thing, right?
It goes back to, do I reallywanna learn?
Do I really want to improve?
Can I get.
Get something that's gonna helpme grow as a person deeper, and
then just like, does my backhurt a little bit.
Like, I think you just have totake forward sometimes.
Um, I had one though that wasworse

Andy Royalty (29:33):
Yeah.

Eric (29:34):
this is kind of what brought up the, the idea of
having you on, because I hadsomeone come in to

Andy Royalty (29:40):
Yeah.

Eric (29:41):
was a great athlete, never met him before, and he was like,
Hey, um.
Yeah, I've played golf on andoff because I've got the, I've
got a herniated disc and I go, Iget, you know, physical therapy.
He's young.
A lot of speed, tons of speed,essentially taught him how to
stand like Robbie just said,like, this is someone who was
taking golf lessons and gettingphysical therapy, and I simply

(30:03):
asked a question like.
What did they tell you aboutyour swing that's causing the
pain?
Because it's from golf, right?
He's like, yeah, and he saidNothing.
They told me nothing.
I said, not the physicaltherapist.
Not the golf instructor, no.
So he clearly went to a physicaltherapist that wasn't focused on
golf, right?
Like they were trying to helpdid a good job of it, like he
was feeling better.

(30:24):
But

Andy Royalty (30:24):
Right.

Eric (30:25):
we gotta figure this out right now, or you're gonna keep
going down this road.
And so.
Um, you know, we, we did it fromour end, like working on
standing like, like Rob said,and try to get him.
And it, if he, it immediatelyhelped him, like immediately.
He came back a month

Rob Failes (30:41):
Yeah.

Eric (30:42):
yeah, I'm playing the best golf of my life.
I don't have any back to speakof.
um, but

Andy Royalty (30:48):
Awesome.

Eric (30:48):
part to me is like both us as the PGA golf instructor and
hopefully as like in the biggermedical sense like.
If someone's having pain fromgolf, do you think they should
probably go see a PT that has alittle bit more golf centric
experience?
Is that I think that wouldprobably like, I think the

(31:09):
assumption that every PTunderstands the golf swing is
probably not true, but I'massuming that.
What would you say about that inyour

Andy Royalty (31:15):
Yeah, that's so, so yes, I think there's PTs that
are gonna help some of thesegolfers get out of pain, but if
the reason they're getting intopain is, uh, they've got pretty
good mobility and flexibility,they may have some weakness.
And so the PTs gonna work onsome strengthening, but they may
be doing something mechanicallythat's just putting a ton of

(31:36):
stress.
Uh.
You know, on their elbows or, ortheir back.
And so that's one of the thingsthat we like to do is take a
down the line and a face on viewof the swing and just see it.
Is there anything excessivegoing on in the swing, uh, like
reverse spine angle or, um, orthey're, they're, they're, you
know, casting significantly, um,causing that medial elbow pain

(31:57):
from.
Uh, you know, on the trail side.
So those are some things that welook at our risk position at
impact, um, in regards to elbowdiscomfort.
And then also, you know, ifthey're doing some excessive
bends, uh, during the swing thatwe, you know, want to take a
look at that and see if thatpotentially is a reason, um,
that they're having issues.

(32:18):
So

Rob Failes (32:19):
Can we back up to the, um,

Andy Royalty (32:21):
Yep.

Rob Failes (32:22):
can we back up to what you found with, with.
Is there a correlation in risk,position, and impact with pain
that you've found?

Andy Royalty (32:29):
somebody's dealing with, like, if they're writing
and they're dealing with medialelbow pain on the right side,
which is their trail side,usually in the position of, so
you have muscles on the insideof the forearm that.
Grip and they flex the wrist.
And so those muscles right thereattached to the of the elbow.

(32:51):
What we find is that whenthey're coming into contact with
the ball, at impact, they'recasting or they're scooping and
their wrist, it's in thisposition.
At impact and everything'sreally tight, and then they're
making contact with

Rob Failes (33:08):
Mm-hmm.

Andy Royalty (33:08):
and so it's putting a lot of stress on the
inside of that with somebodythat's having trailside lateral
epicondylitis on that outsideelbow.
They tend to have their handsmore forward,

Rob Failes (33:20):
Hmm.

Andy Royalty (33:21):
rare.
It's usually, um, If they'regonna cast or scoop it's pain on
the inside of

Rob Failes (33:29):
Mm-hmm.

Andy Royalty (33:30):
side.
Elbow and pain on side or theoutside of the lead side elbow
is what we find is most common,these players because as you
know, wrist position, uh, handsa little forward and impact is,
is a great position to get into,uh, for a lot of the golfers.
And so if they're doing thatcasting, they tend to cause a

(33:51):
lot of discomfort on thoseelbows.
Does that make sense?

Rob Failes (33:54):
Yeah, for sure.

Andy Royalty (33:56):
Okay.
Yeah, we had that so, he wasdealing with like significant
low back pain and we took a downthe line of view.
And we saw hi, his feet were soclosed to the target and, and,
and I think one of theinstructors was having him, you
know, try to do inside to outswing.

(34:17):
So he was having him start withhis feet

Rob Failes (34:20):
Hmm.

Andy Royalty (34:20):
closed,

Rob Failes (34:21):
Yeah, it's unfortunate.

Andy Royalty (34:22):
out swing.
was just and just torquing theheck out of his low back.
We had him just open his stanceup a little bit where he lined
his feet up with the target andthen line his shoulders up with
the target to, to even thoseout.
And all of a sudden he's like,gosh, my back feels way better.
I'm not like, you know, comingacross and just torquing the

(34:43):
heck out of it.
I mean, little simple thingslike that if, I think it's
really

Rob Failes (34:47):
Yeah.

Andy Royalty (34:47):
to be able to look at the swing because most
physical therapists, they haveno idea at in the swing.
And that's, you know, goingthrough the, the TPI Medical
level two certification justallowed us to look at a lot of
the mechanics and things thatgolfers can go through that, um.
That are some red flags that arehappening.
And this is something that welove.
Like, Hey, this is what I sawduring the video when I was
looking, you know, and passingthat information off to you guys

(35:10):
to say, Hey, what are somethings that you guys can do
mechanically from the swing tobe able to potentially offload
some of those structures?
And I think that's where thecommunication is really key.
And then a lot of the studentsare like, wow, like.
I feel like a PGA tour player,like I've got a team around me
communicating.
This is awesome.
So

Rob Failes (35:29):
Yeah.

Andy Royalty (35:29):
it's just a, a great way to provide a high
level of service for thestudents.

Rob Failes (35:35):
And then what are some kind, I mentioned earlier
about concepts, but what aresome of the, the concepts in
terms of how we're standing.
Even in swing that you find thatare problematic, more from like
a, you know, in all of yourexperience, what are some of the
more common, common conceptsthat that golfers need to get
away from?
I.

Andy Royalty (35:54):
of the big ones for us, we'll see down the line.
Is extension that occurs wheresomebody, they, they come into
the back swing and their hips,we draw a line on the back of
their hips and they look reallygood.
Their right butt cheek, if theirright is on that line.
And then when they go to, tostart the downswing, they tend

(36:15):
to stand up or move closer tothe ball and don't learn how to
actually rotate the pelvis.
Uh.
Sometimes what we find is thesepeople early extend because
they're starting with weightthrough their heels or their
center of gravity is actuallyback behind their ankles.
And so one of the things that welike to look at from down the

(36:37):
line is, is the outside hipbone.
their greater trocanter here onthe outside of the hip, which is
like right near the pocket line.
Is that directly straight downover the lateral ankle.
So like the outside ankle bonehere, see that outside ankle
bone.
So we like to see is that inline?
Sometimes these people's hipbones are behind their.

(37:02):
Ankle bone.
And so in order to gain balanceor uh, in order to keep balance
and stay upright, their centerof gravity has to move forward
closer to the ball, and that cancause a lot of issues.
They move closer to the ball andall of a sudden they gotta bring
the hands in and go more out toany type of swing.
So then they come.

(37:22):
Have an out to end swing path oflike four degrees and then they
have to open the club base andactually in order to actually
get it to go straight, and thenthey end up with a high spin
rate and they have loosedistance.
So that's kind of one of thethings I see when it comes to
people standing is they're just,they're set up, they're center
of gravity is so far back thatwhen they go to swing, in order

(37:44):
to maintain their balance overtheir base of support, they have
to move closer to the ball.
Does that kind of make sense?

Eric (37:50):
Oh yeah, that,

Andy Royalty (37:51):
Yeah, that's one thing I'll see.

Eric (37:55):
observational, but that, alignment, of the hip sitting

Andy Royalty (37:58):
Yeah.

Eric (37:58):
behind the ankles.
Is

Andy Royalty (38:01):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (38:02):
one when typically when people are having back pain, I
see that a lot, but the,probably the people who come in
and say, Hey, I've got the worstpain.
Like I want to quit golf rightnow, which I get probably
several times a year.
Is that set up?
And then also way too much likeexcessive lateral motion of the
pelvis, so they're movingforward'cause they sat back too

(38:24):
much and then they're slidingleft knee, staying like very
soft and the left hip is thenextending over the front foot
and then all of a sudden, youknow.
They're just, they're toast atthat point, you know, the, the
lower back has taken so much andthey're, you know, to Robbie's
point, they're trail sidebending at the same time because
their hips are far forward.
And it just, all that pressurethat

Andy Royalty (38:46):
Yeah.

Eric (38:46):
that seems to build up in the hips and the lower back,
just really hard to

Andy Royalty (38:51):
Yeah, we'll see.
We'll see.
Uh, so lack of hip mobility, soinability to be able to rotate
the pelvis.
Um, so one of the things we'llsee is, is people, uh, they'll
sway and then they'll slidetowards the target to create
that momentum, um, or that swingspeed.
And they don't really have theadequate hip mobility to be able
to turn the hips and be able tokind of stay centered.

(39:13):
Uh, and so they end up.
Swaying a little bit too much,and then that causes them to
feel their head's moving andthen they're like, okay, they're
trying to hit a moving target.
So that can lead to poor ballstriking.
So that's another thing thatwe'll see is, um, from the face
on view of if they're swaying orsliding too much.
Yeah, the human body is, it'spretty amazing.

(39:36):
The human body is amazing andjust being able to understand
the biomechanics of the swingand being able to, uh, figure
out like.
I think it's just so cool.
Like, that's the reason I lovewhat I do, is because you're
almost like mechanic for a car.
You're, you're a mechanic forthe human body.
You're trying to figure out,like based on their swing,

(39:58):
you're using all of this dataand all of these, these, uh.
All, all of these, uh, inputs ofmeasures, tests, range of motion
measurements, strengthmeasurements, coordination, uh,
you're looking at their swing onvideo and you're, you're putting
all these pieces together andyou're creating like, okay, this
is what's going on, and if youcan figure it out.

(40:18):
Then come up with a game plan tobe able to solve it.
I mean, these people will,they'll be like, man, I've been
dealing with this for like fiveyears.
Nobody's been able to figure itout.
And like finally somebody's ableto tell me, Hey, this is your
issue.
And for you to be able to like,show it to them and, and say,
Hey, this is exactly what'sgoing on and this is the plan
that we need to do to, to get itgoing and get it to improve.

(40:40):
And then they're like, okay,let's, let's go for it.
And then you start to.
Implement that plan.
They start to do the homeworkthat you give them.
And like that is so addictingthey come in after weeks of
working with you and they'relike, is the best I've ever
felt.
I've even shot, you know, abetter score.
I mean, we had a guy.
The other day, uh, last week, hecame in and he was like, man, my

(41:03):
back's feeling loose.
Now I can actually create a goodturn.
And I just, I broke 80 for thefirst time in over a year, and
he was like ecstatic about it.
I mean, like, that is soaddicting to be able to help
people through that.
It's like it's, you're notworking in your life when you
have people go through thoseexperiences.
So anyway.

(41:24):
I love it.
I mean, you guys have peoplecome in and tell you like, I
shot scratch for the first timeever.

Rob Failes (41:31):
Oh yeah.

Eric (41:32):
it's,

Rob Failes (41:33):
Yep.

Andy Royalty (41:33):
I mean, is that

Eric (41:34):
to your

Andy Royalty (41:35):
or what?

Eric (41:36):
it's, it's very But the most rewarding is, like you were
saying, when

Andy Royalty (41:41):
Yeah.

Eric (41:41):
Performance plus feeling better.
And I tell people all the time,and this is for the listener,
okay?
Like if you have a golf issue,like golf performance and you
have pain, you don't have twoissues.
You have one issue, which is yougotta get the pain figured out,
performance piece of it is so.

Andy Royalty (41:58):
Yep.

Eric (41:58):
compared to what's going on in your body, right?
It's something that you have tolisten to it's one of the only
reasons, and we, we talk aboutthis

Andy Royalty (42:07):
Yep.

Eric (42:07):
of like development in the swing, which I don't know if
you, if you've heard thatepisode, Andy, that we did about
sort of like when, when is theright time to change your swing?
And we, we kinda laid out thatthe number one right time to
change your swing is when it'seither causing you pain or about
to cause you pain.
it's like,

Rob Failes (42:24):
Yep.

Eric (42:25):
that's the number one deal.
And, um, I think that I, Ibelieve that 100%, but I think
that golfers don't ever thinkabout that.
I mean, general, I'm makinggeneralizations, but hey, I
wanna play better.
You know, I need to swingbetter.
I need to swing faster.
I need to do this better.
But there's a whole hierarchy oflike understanding how the body
works and how the swing worksand how you develop skill and

(42:48):
pain is absolutely a huge partof it that nobody talks about.
And I'll tell you, I'll tell youa quick story.
I had this guy I taught, I'vetaught him for 20 years,, and
he's a good friend of mine andwe joke around a lot.
We were working on his game, hewas playing bad, he was
frustrated, and he was coming tosee me like it felt like once or
twice a week.
And we're doing lessons and, andhe's like, yeah, I'm just not

(43:10):
playing well, I played terribleone to this.
And then he's like, limping offthe range tee.
And he's like, oh, and by theway, uh, I'll be out for six
months.
I'm getting my hip replaced.
And I'm like, well,

Rob Failes (43:20):
Nice.

Eric (43:21):
it was like three months or something.
And I said.
You're just telling me now thatyou're getting your hip
replaced.
Like think about all the

Rob Failes (43:28):
That's fantastic.

Eric (43:29):
he's a listener to the show and you know who you are,
sir, you're listening to theshow right now.
'cause we joke about it, but thefact of the matter is think
about all the things that wenton for months and years leading
up to needing a hip replacementthat in your golf, you're just
like, eh, you know what?
It doesn't bother me.
You know, like I can it orwhatever.
And.
You know, we're like that.

Andy Royalty (43:50):
Yeah.

Eric (43:50):
be a little bit resilient.
Men and women both.
a man thing generally, and soyou,

Andy Royalty (43:56):
Right.

Eric (43:56):
be, if you, if you're dealing with something, you have
to realize that it affects yourgolf game.
Let me ask you this directquestion, Andy.
Somebody comes to you and says.
I saw the, I saw the orthopedic.
He says, I need my kneereplaced.
Okay, but it's June and I'dlike, and I'd like to do it in
November so that I can kindarehab during the winter and then

(44:17):
start in the I know what they, Iknow what I tell

Andy Royalty (44:21):
Right.

Eric (44:22):
they ask me that and say, Hey, can you help me get through
the season?
I've got some advice on that.
my side, golf performance wise,what is your advice there from
the PT side of it?
Do you take that on or do youoffer them advice, uh, in a

Andy Royalty (44:38):
Oh, absolutely.
So this is great because thishas happened.
This happened last year.
This has happened.
This is happening currentlyright now with someone so.
I, it really comes down to howbad is it for them.
So if it's like debilitating andthey're like, gosh, I can't even
sleep at night.
It's killing me.
They've done injections, we'vehad Synvisc shots, um, I've done

(45:01):
pt.
Like, it's just not improving.
Then.
they're like, I just gotta getthis thing done.
Then it's up to them.
It's really, it's kind of like,okay, well, all right.
Go ahead and get the kneereplacement and then just know
that you're gonna be outta golffor the rest of the season, and
then by spring you're gonna bereally rehabbed and ready to go.
But most of the time, I'd say90% of the people they want to

(45:24):
keep playing golf and they wantto push it off till November.
And I'm all for that.
And most physicians, especiallythe ones that play golf, they,
they understand, right?
Because golf is great, andespecially during the warmer
months.
So they'll say, all right, we'regonna, we're gonna try to push
this off as long as you canuntil November.
And they're gonna give themmore, you know.

(45:45):
Uh, conservative type treatmentslike the injections, the
cortisone shots, or, um, visshots, uh, or like a knee brace
or, or some type of, um, ster,uh, like a, a heavier
non-steroidal anti-inflammatory,like meloxicam or some type of,
um, oral, uh, medication thatthey can take to kind of like

(46:06):
keep, get them through therounds.
Uh, and so.
That's most of the time whatpeople are doing.
And then they'll, they'll opt infor the surgery.
And I, I think getting, if I wasto get a knee replacement, it'd
probably be November timeframebecause, you know, winter time
you're not really gonna beplaying much golf, and then by
March, April, you're, you'regolden.
You're ready to go.
So that, I would say that's kindof the answer I have.

(46:27):
It just depends on the personand what their overall goals are
and how bad it is.

Eric (46:32):
Yeah, my, my worry

Andy Royalty (46:34):
question, Eric.
I love it.

Eric (46:35):
the ch is how much the swing changes when you're
compensating for the then you'regonna work into a new swing.

Andy Royalty (46:42):
Yeah.

Eric (46:44):
then you're gonna come out of it.
And it goes back to what youmentioned earlier about the pain
still on in your brain forafterwards, right?
So

Andy Royalty (46:51):
Yep.

Eric (46:51):
it's like I'm gonna

Andy Royalty (46:52):
Absolutely.

Eric (46:53):
compensation, probably put some stress on the other side of
my body that's undo play crummy.

Rob Failes (46:58):
In Whack-a-Mole, right?

Eric (46:59):
Yeah, play crummy golf anyway.
Take a bunch ofanti-inflammatories that are
terrible for my guts and thenI'm gonna get the surgery done
and then I come back and have tofix, I have to fix all the that
I made in my swing, and there'sno right answer.
And I get, I

Andy Royalty (47:15):
Yeah.

Eric (47:16):
that they make, but to your point, I guess

Andy Royalty (47:19):
Yeah.

Eric (47:19):
just not as bad as others.
But man, it's, it's

Andy Royalty (47:22):
I.

Eric (47:22):
like, you know, maybe just.
It.
You gotta make a decision andrealize like no matter what,
you're still gonna play worse.
Golf in those like four months.
up to it and it's not gonna

Andy Royalty (47:36):
Right.
Yeah, you

Eric (47:37):
you get an injection, in my opinion.

Rob Failes (47:39):
Yeah,

Eric (47:40):
that's what I've

Rob Failes (47:40):
like if it's a, if I get it, if it's like a, uh, like
a time like, Hey, I'm only gonnatake this trip to Scotland once,
this is the only time that I'mgonna have, be able to do this.
So it's like.
to, I want to go play inScotland.
Or it's like, Hey, I get to goplay Pine Valley or Augusta.
Like, all right, okay, whatever.
Like, just, but if it's notsomething like that, then, then

(48:03):
I'm with you, Eric.
I think, um, I think you, you,you try to get it resolved as,
as quickly as possible or asearly as possible and just, just
eat the, eat that one in seasonand just, and just, You know,
accept it.

Andy Royalty (48:19):
You don't want to poor motor patterns and have,
and, and ingrained some, somepoor swing habits.
'cause obviously then you guyshave to work a little extra
harder to try to get'em out ofthat.
I mean, it may be a good thingthey may see you for more
sessions or something now.
I'm just kidding.

Eric (48:35):
it's all good.
Well, um,

Andy Royalty (48:38):
Yeah.

Eric (48:38):
you have anything you'd like to add here at the end of
the, uh, at the conversation?
having you on and, and, uh,either one of you, if you have

Andy Royalty (48:45):
Yeah, man.

Eric (48:46):
I just wanna say on.
I know it's hard to.
We're all in the

Andy Royalty (48:51):
Appreciate it.

Eric (48:51):
during the day and we got kids at night.
We're trying to fit this in inbetween, but I kind of felt like
there was a story that needed tobe told, not my world.
Right?
And that's what I think thatthere is a line between people's
specialties, right?
And Andy Royalty will look atgolf swings and try to help
people, but not in a way that'soverlapping, what a golf
instructor's gonna teach from agolf skill standpoint.

(49:13):
And I'm gonna have some thoughtson

Andy Royalty (49:15):
Right.

Eric (49:16):
And Rob fails will too, in a way that doesn't overlap.
'cause it's not our area ofexpertise, right?
That's why you have the name.
Indy royalty, right?
And so I just appreciate thoserelationships because if we
could keep those communicationlines going, golfers can just
benefit in so many differentways.
But end of the day, The golferhas to be open enough to be

(49:40):
like, Hey, I can't just ignorewhat's going on or think it
doesn't affect my performance.
I've gotta at some point go, youknow what?
It, it may affect my like, ohyeah, my rotator cuff's
partially torn, but it's notaffecting my swing.
No, no, no, no.
That's affect.
I

Rob Failes (49:55):
No, it is.

Eric (49:55):
hear that once a week and I'm like, no, no, no.
Like that's definitely affectingyour swing.
We, we just have to accept it.
I mean, we can maybe work aroundit, but it's definitely
affecting the swing.
So I appreciate you coming onand,

Rob Failes (50:07):
I.

Andy Royalty (50:08):
Yep,

Eric (50:08):
and, I just wanted to say that, that think that there is
a, there is a solution to someof this for people and if they
just take the time to.
To kind of work through it.
It's not fun.
I mean, I was dealing with somehip pain and I, I texted my
friend, Dr.
Andy Royalty and I was like, Heyman, I saw this Instagram post
you did about hip pain.
And I think that's me.
Like, what do I need to do?

(50:29):
And you help me out.
And it was just is really nice.
And it's helped my hips do nothurt anymore.

Andy Royalty (50:34):
That's awesome.

Eric (50:35):
and everything is fine.
So, um, that's what I had timefor in the moment.
But I, anyway, I wanna say thankyou for coming on.
Any thoughts, Ralph fails forAndy.
Before we give him the mic forthe one last minute.

Rob Failes (50:47):
No.
Yeah, no.
Appreciate you taking the timeand coming on and, and sharing
your expertise and, uh, yeah,looking forward to, uh, to
hopefully maybe sending hope,hopefully not, but,'cause I
don't want my students to beinjured.
But when, when, and if that'sthe case, send, send some folks
your way, so I appreciate it.

Andy Royalty (51:04):
able to, to, you know, make a text or a call and
just say, Hey, you know, mystudent's dealing with this,
this, and this.
What are some things?
Because if I can be able to addvalue to what you guys are doing
and say, Hey, have'em triedthese things, and it saves them
the hassle of having to go, youknow, jump through hoops to, to
come out to see us, then to me,that's a win.

(51:26):
So.
Yep.

Eric (51:27):
a

Andy Royalty (51:27):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.

Eric (51:30):
So we will link,

Andy Royalty (51:31):
Yep.

Eric (51:32):
The royal treatment.
On the, uh, on, on our, on ourshow notes, you have to check it
out'cause he has a good websiteand he does some good social
stuff.
So you wanna follow him on thesocials and we'll link those
there as well if I can figureout how to do that.
And we just wanna appreciate youcoming on, sir.
Any last things you want to addto the people?
Tell the people anything youwant.

(51:52):
Andy, the stage is yours.

Andy Royalty (51:55):
Yeah, I think, um, you know, if you're somebody,
and most of the time when we'reseeing people, it's like, it's
very rare.
They're like, yeah, I've beendealing with this for two weeks.
Usually it's somebody that's,they've tried a lot of
conservative stuff, they'vetried to rest, and it just
continues to come back.
And so, uh, if they're notfixing the underlying problem,

(52:15):
then.
They're just essentially gonnabe going through that same cycle
of they rest, it gets better andthen, then when they play a lot
of golf, it gets worse and thenthey rest again.
So might as well just nip it inthe bud and and fix the
underlying issue so that theycan essentially.
Be able to, to get back to golfand not have to worry about, uh,
the issue continuing to comeback over and over again.

(52:37):
So I love what I do and I'mexcited to continue to help more
of the, the Richmond community,uh, be able to play golf and
enjoy it and, and just en, youknow, enjoy what they're doing,
not only on the course, but alsooff the course.
So, yep.

Eric (52:52):
Man.
Oh, I appreciate you.
And I think the, point of thestory tonight of the tunnel.
you can, you can actually work

Andy Royalty (53:00):
Absolutely.

Eric (53:02):
Feel better.
play better.
together.
So thank you for coming on, doc.

Andy Royalty (53:07):
Yep.

Eric (53:08):
always, a pleasure to have you on.
Uh, what a good episode.
I think a lot of this, so Have a

Andy Royalty (53:17):
Love it.

Eric (53:18):
and

Andy Royalty (53:18):
Absolutely.

Eric (53:19):
in to the Golf Intervention Podcast.