EP 50: Playing from the Rough and Huge Upgrades in Iron Fitting Technology

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On this episode of The Golf Intervention Podcast, we dig into three critical areas that can help golfers of all levels play smarter and score better.

Topics we cover include:

• Playing from the Rough:
  • How to assess your lie and choose the right shot.
  • When to take a risk versus when to play safe.
  • How rough affects spin, launch, and distance—and what that means for club selection.
• The Iron Fitting Revolution with Loft Adjustments:
  • Why iron fitting has changed dramatically thanks to loft optimization.
  • How adjusting lofts can fine-tune launch height, spin rates, and carry distance.
  • Why proper gapping throughout your set is essential for consistent scoring.
  • What every golfer should know before buying or tweaking their irons.
• Lessons from the Lesson Tee:
  • The importance of separating two key skills:
    • Impact location on the clubface (centeredness of strike).
    • Clubface orientation (open vs. closed at impact).
  • Why confusing these two often leads to frustration and misdiagnosis of swing flaws.
  • Practical drills to improve both skills and build more reliable ball flight.

This episode combines on-course strategy, cutting-edge equipment fitting insights, and real teaching takeaways to give you insights you can apply immediately to your game.

For bonus content, subscribe to The Golf Intervention Substack at https://thegolfintervention.substack.com/

Tiger Woods crazy shot from the rough from 184 yards with a pitching wedge   https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zhdXHMtxbbw

Episode Transcript

Eric (00:00):
Welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast.
We're so glad you're tuning inwith us this evening.
We've got a robust full of golfperformance, excitement.
I mean, that sounded prettysnazzy there, Rob, didn't it?

Rob Failes (00:17):
It sounds like a show title to me.

Eric (00:19):
We're trying to, we're trying to draw, draw you in
listener with our, excitementabout the topics we're gonna
discuss.
But what, I mean, we are gonnastart off with a topic, I think
super exciting.
Has iron fitting beenrevolutionized and no one's
talking about it?
So that's gonna be a topictonight.
We're gonna take you through.

(00:40):
A level 1, 2, 3 playerdiscussion on playing from the
rough, which is a question fromone of my students and avid
listener to the show.
So this is for her.
She'll know who she is when shehears it, and then we'll do
lessons from our lessons, whichis kind of a fun way that, we
share some insights of thingsthat we see from our lesson t

(01:00):
that help you may help you, Ishould say, the listener with
your golf game.
So, how you doing this evening?
Rob fails you doing well?

Rob Failes (01:10):
We're doing great.
Yeah.
Had a, had a good full day and,did a little golf school with
Hunter today, so, yeah, it wasfun.
Yeah.
The term golf school, it'sinteresting, right?
It's not, yeah.
I, I'll keep thinking of, ofalternative terms, but that's
what we're going with.

Eric (01:23):
an immersive experience.
We'll say.
That's what it is.

Rob Failes (01:25):
Ah, there we go.
Love it.

Eric (01:27):
to say that,

Rob Failes (01:29):
Yeah,

Eric (01:29):
These are the days where you could teach.
10 straight hours and not evenbreak a

Rob Failes (01:34):
percent.

Eric (01:34):
It was, I had the

Rob Failes (01:35):
Yeah.

Eric (01:35):
on all day.
You spend fall weather inCentral Virginia and I am
excited about this time of year'cause it's my favorite time of
year other than the rack wheatthat kills me.
That's why we didn't

Rob Failes (01:47):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (01:47):
the other day because of man allergies were killing me.
I had no voice.
But, other than that, it's agreat time of year.
So we are gonna have adiscussion.
I, I kind of teased it at thebeginning about.
Has iron fitting beenrevolutionized and no one's
discussing it?
I think kind of now why is noone discussing it?

(02:07):
I think a couple reasons.
Number one, like who cares?
It's not that exciting.
I mean, it is a performancething, but at the end of the
day, you know, like iron fittingisn't like the most exciting
topic to talk about in

Rob Failes (02:20):
Hmm.

Eric (02:21):
but I will say.
As someone who club fits a lotand I, I, you know, with my job,
and I mentioned it on herebefore, I teach a lot and I club
fit a lot like an in inordinate

Rob Failes (02:31):
Yeah.

Eric (02:32):
Wouldn't you say?
So

Rob Failes (02:34):
percent.

Eric (02:36):
Titleist has come out with their new irons, which I think
I, I wrote at least a substackabout their new irons and ping
as some new irons.

Rob Failes (02:44):
Yep.

Eric (02:45):
Callaway this year when they brought out the Elite iron
fitting set, redid their wholefitting configuration.
And what we're getting fromthose three companies is that,,
the lofts are very customizableand adjustable.
For the fitting process andobviously for the ordering
process.
Well, okay.
Eric, why does, why in the, whydoes that matter?

(03:06):
Right.
Well, here's why it mattersbecause when you're fitting
somebody, you're fitting them toan iron that performs at a
certain, a certain way to createan optimal shot.
Right?
And that optimal shot has acertain height to, it has a
certain, what we call landangle.
It's like the angle that it'scoming out of the air on, into
the green.
And then the spin obviously ispart of that.

(03:29):
you're fitting people based ontheir club speed, you're trying
to hit certain optimal heights.
Do you do much of, do you domuch fitting?
Rob hadn't seen

Rob Failes (03:37):
really that much.
Yeah.

Eric (03:38):
Ping for a few years has had what they call the power
spec and

Rob Failes (03:42):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (03:42):
they brought the retro spec out and we've had fitting
heads with that.
So power spec is like strongerlofts, and then retrospect is
like.
A combination of weaker lofts,um, and then they have their
standard heads, and so you couldfit with those and ingest.
But Titleist right on the Zelnow has this fitting set that's
unbelievable for, I like, if youhaven't checked it out yet,

(04:03):
those of you that fit, you'vegotta check it out and like, and
see it because you've got.
upright, a standard in a flatsetting, and then you've got all
the combinations of being ableto go up and down in the line,
going up and down in the loft,and it's insane.
so they also came out with, whatthey call the, the two 50, the T

(04:26):
two 50 star, which has weakerlofts to start with.
It's like almost like aretrospect like, you

Rob Failes (04:32):
That's pretty cool.

Eric (04:33):
so.
I'm fitting lofts, like we dothis with dr.
We've done this with driversforever, right?
'cause you're trying to get thispeak height to optimize

Rob Failes (04:42):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (04:42):
flight.
I've been fitting lofts, likecustomizing.
I will tell you for a few of mystudents that really struggle,
either hitting the ball too highor they've hit the ball too low,
I can get'em in the right ironfor their, for their, you know,
whatever they do kind ofnaturally, right?
Without having

Rob Failes (04:59):
Right.

Eric (05:00):
So you, you see this with students, Robbie, like, I've got
a seven iron in my hand and thepeak height, like I've got
decent speed.
I swing it at 70 miles an hour,but the peak height of the shot
is 46 feet.

Rob Failes (05:13):
Yeah.

Eric (05:13):
Right.
For whatever reason, you know,and so we as we as instructors
are trying to, the, the main,the only real way that we
influence that is by getting thedynamic loft up.
how easy

Rob Failes (05:26):
Right.

Eric (05:26):
it to change someone's dynamic loft at Impact?

Rob Failes (05:30):
Not super easy.

Eric (05:31):
Let's say one of the harder things we do, I would
say, right, because it's hard toseparate Dynamic Loft from Face
Angle.
Okay, so let's

Rob Failes (05:38):
And attacking.
Yeah.

Eric (05:39):
so as you're trying to parse that out, think about it
this way.
Dynamic Loft is the loft of theclub at Impact on the vertical
side of the club face, right?
That's Loft.
And then Face Angle, which wetalk about and everybody thinks
about club face, is thehorizontal measurement, right?
They both have.
influence on the ball goes.

(06:00):
And so for someone that deliversthe club with too little dynamic
loft, that is

Rob Failes (06:07):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (06:08):
hard thing to change in my opinion, right?
Unless you

Rob Failes (06:12):
I agree.

Eric (06:12):
point around in some functional way, which again, for
a lot

Rob Failes (06:15):
Yeah.

Eric (06:15):
actually, isn't that easy?
So what do we end up doing?
We end up getting them weakershafts, like we're trying to get
'em like these,

Rob Failes (06:23):
Yes.

Eric (06:23):
soft kicky shafts that hit the ball

Rob Failes (06:25):
Yeah, exactly.

Eric (06:26):
And with soft and Kicky comes more dispersion typically,
right?
So.
Now all of a sudden I can takethat person and just like fit
them to weaker lofts and they'rehitting the ball.
So much be, I mean, it's,

Rob Failes (06:41):
That's awesome.
Yeah.

Eric (06:42):
cra So one player, uh, in particular who've worked with
for 15 years on his game, justalways hit it low.
Like it wasn't terribly low,just always low.
We've always worked

Rob Failes (06:53):
Yeah,

Eric (06:53):
and I fit him in two degrees weaker.
I think it was a Callaway Eliteoh my gosh, it's changed.
It's changed everything for,he's gone from 56 peak height to
72 peak height on seven iron,

Rob Failes (07:08):
that's crazy how much, much of that changes based
off two degrees.

Eric (07:11):
and by the way, carry distance has gone up 15 yards.

Rob Failes (07:15):
Oh, sure.
Yeah.

Eric (07:16):
So people don't always think about

Rob Failes (07:18):
Makes sense.

Eric (07:19):
oh, if I hit it lower, I'll hit it further.
No, it doesn't work that way.
There's a peak height

Rob Failes (07:23):
No,

Eric (07:23):
that's

Rob Failes (07:24):
yes.

Eric (07:25):
So now he

Rob Failes (07:25):
Yeah,

Eric (07:26):
a shaft that's the right stiffness loft on the club and
the club.
That's right.
Like, you know, like isn't a

Rob Failes (07:32):
yeah,

Eric (07:33):
that really needed a huge game improvement club.
He just hit the ball a littlelow.
Right?
So.

Rob Failes (07:37):
totally.
And with those, with thosereally high MO, I.
Basically high forgiveness clubheads.
A lot of times they put the, themass really low and back, which
tends to help launch it up.
And then they counteract that assaying, okay, we're gonna
strengthen the loss.
Well, plenty of people who fitinto that club, they don't have

(07:57):
enough speed anyway.
Right.
And their peak height's gonna betoo low anyway.
So like, why are we, why are westrengthening the lofts on those
clubs?
Like, you know, let's, let'skeep the lofts standard for a
lot and then you'll get on aprobably.
Lower proportion of golfers whohave enough speed with that
clubhead, and then we can bringthe loft down.
So yeah, that makes a lot ofsense.

Eric (08:18):
I think it's, I wanna say revolutionary to be able to fit
the loft that way.
Um, so kudos to the companiesthat have done that.
I mean, I think, I thinkactually Tailormade, I don't fit
with Tailormade a ton.
I have to be

Rob Failes (08:32):
me either.

Eric (08:33):
They

Rob Failes (08:33):
Yeah.

Eric (08:34):
sleeve kind of configuration that think you can
change the loft a little bit on.

Rob Failes (08:38):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (08:39):
Titleist, that fitting set is outrageous.
The amount of options that youhave and the t and the T series
irons that they just came outwith like a month ago are just
unbelievably good.
So.
If you haven't tried'em, you'rethinking about new irons.
Go to a good club fitter, um,someone who knows what they're
doing, and definitely test out.

(09:00):
Definitely test out those new Tseries titles'cause they are
just outrageously good and withall the customizable options.
Um, there's really something foreverybody.
It's pretty, it's prettyawesome.
Pretty

Rob Failes (09:11):
Yeah.

Eric (09:13):
So hopefully that wasn't too nerdy of a discussion.
I was trying to think of, why.
Why isn't this a biggerdiscussion in the world of like,

Rob Failes (09:22):
Hmm.

Eric (09:22):
and I, you know, I gotta understand what the, what the
general population of golfers,they're not 100% in tune to loss
of their irons or

Rob Failes (09:31):
Yes.

Eric (09:31):
of a nerdy topic,

Rob Failes (09:33):
Agree.
Yeah.

Eric (09:34):
like in our world of discussions with other teachers
or forums, or,

Rob Failes (09:39):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (09:39):
haven't heard any dis, it's like zero discussion.

Rob Failes (09:42):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (09:42):
start, maybe this will be the start of that discussion.

Rob Failes (09:45):
there you go.

Eric (09:45):
There you go.
you go.
So I had a question for one ofmy students playing from the
rough.
Now she is a avid listener,loves the show.
So we appreciate herenthusiastic support'cause she
definitely shares with all herfriends that they need to listen
to the show.
And she was just, she's abeginner golfer essentially.

(10:05):
She's learning quickly., But hada question about playing out of
the rough.

Rob Failes (10:11):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (10:12):
I would say this time of year, the rough is just in
Central Virginia for

Rob Failes (10:16):
It can be.
Yeah,

Eric (10:17):
'cause

Rob Failes (10:17):
sure.

Eric (10:18):
outta the summer, the Bermuda, the Bermuda is so
healthy we get a little bit ofrain a little bit now,
temperature's perfect and it isjust brutal.
And on our, our James Rivercourse, you know, we're prepping
for, our final hosting of one ofthe champion store playoffs
events.
And so the rough just getsreally healthy this time of
year.

Rob Failes (10:38):
Yeah.

Eric (10:39):
it's really hard to play out of.
she said, can you do an episodeon playing from the rough?
And I was like, yeah, totallycan do that.
So

Rob Failes (10:49):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (10:49):
a pretty complex, almost like you could,

Rob Failes (10:52):
Oh, yeah.

Eric (10:53):
yeah.
There, there's some complexityto playing from the rough
because some, there's some, um,decision points, right?
You almost need a

Rob Failes (11:02):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (11:03):
Like you could almost Write

Rob Failes (11:04):
Decision tree.
Yeah.

Eric (11:05):
or a decision tree,

Rob Failes (11:07):
Yeah.

Eric (11:08):
of it is based on club at speed and skill,,

Rob Failes (11:10):
Oh, yes.

Eric (11:12):
or the same.
They, they generally

Rob Failes (11:14):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (11:14):
go

Rob Failes (11:14):
Agree.

Eric (11:15):
and then obviously the type of grass, thick and deep
the grass is, how the ball'ssitting in it, what shot you're
trying to play.

Rob Failes (11:25):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (11:25):
you know, um, what you have to go over, what you don't
have to go over, how high youneed to hit the shot, like what
the situation is.
So there's a lot of decisionpoints.
We talk about playing from therough.
We could probably do a series onplaying from the rough, to be
honest,

Rob Failes (11:39):
He legitimately we could.

Eric (11:41):
nobody listening to that brother, so we gotta.

Rob Failes (11:44):
Oh, come on.
You're not, you're not giving usenough credit.

Eric (11:46):
the person that's like, honey, uh, we're driving to,
we're driving to the shore thisweekend for a little getaway.
Can we listen to this two hourepisode on playing from the
rough?
Can you imagine how that, howwell that would go over?
Probably not super well.

Rob Failes (12:00):
Yeah, probably not.
Great.
Yeah.

Eric (12:02):
But I think we can summarize and give'em some
jumping off points,, to

Rob Failes (12:06):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (12:07):
ways that they can explore.
So you rob, like in your mind,um, how are you sorting this
question out?
Just,

Rob Failes (12:14):
Yeah,

Eric (12:15):
impressions of the question.
How are you sorting through itright now?

Rob Failes (12:18):
for sure.
Yeah.
So it, it always starts withthe, the read, right?
So a, a lot of playing in therough is predicting how that lie
club ball interaction's gonnagonna work out, right?
Typically I will break it downinto kind of like A, B, C, and

(12:38):
then for level three, fourgolfers, maybe a D, right?
So you have four real differenttypes of lies.
A lies might as well be in thefairway.
Right.
So no change, you're not doinganything different.
That's a prediction you'remaking.
You might say, all right, I feellike this is gonna come out the
no, the exact same as it wouldoff the fairway.

(12:59):
And you make impact and it comesout way faster and higher, and
no spin than you think.
Sometimes it comes out waylower, dead, no spin., And
again, it's, it's just thedifference in your prediction.
So.
Is it an a lie?
Meaning like no adjustment?
Is it a b lie, which would bethe ball sitting up.
So these are gonna be typicallyyour flyers, right?

(13:22):
Or ones where you could actuallyhit it high on the face if the
arc height is a little too low.
And again, that's more of askill of, of perceiving where
the ball is in space andmatching where the bottom of
your swing is to that there's asea lie, which is.
Sitting down.
All right, so typically theball's gonna come out slower.

(13:43):
And there's a, there's a elementwith this as far as okay,
predicting how much stuff youhave underneath the golf ball.
That's gonna determine again,the AR height and a little bit
of, kind of your loftaffordances.
Like how much loft can youactually hit out of this, out of
this lie?
And then you have D lies, whichare gonna be fescue., Buried,

(14:07):
just situations where youliterally just have to get it
out by any means necessary.
There's been some crazy DLIwhere I've seen where it's the
fescue and the grass is growinginto the grain, and as soon as
the club touches the, the grass,it just catches it like crazy
and all the momentum stops andyou advance the ball about a
foot.

(14:27):
Right?
So these are the types of liesthat, um.
Are really, they're, they'repenalties.
If you think about, like, if yougo and map out a golf course and
try to figure out like, Hey,where can I hit it?
Where can't I hit it?
Even though they're notpenalties by the rules of golf,
per se.
'cause you can find your ball inthese areas, probably a, a good
idea to go ahead and treat thatas a penalty when you're

(14:48):
targeting.
So you have these four maindifferent types of lies, A, B,
C, D, and then you have, likeyou said, the shot that you
have.
Are we.
Greenside, is this a short ironapproach, mid to long iron
approach?
Are we hitting into a par five,right?
Is this our second shot in a parfive?
Where are we?

(15:08):
And then probably backing upeven before that, who are you as
a golfer?
Are you a level one golfer,level two, level three, or level
level four, tor pro?, All ofthese factors are gonna play
into ultimately what you'regonna do.
But understanding thatregardless, every line in the
rough is gonna affect threethings.

(15:28):
It's gonna affect the ballspeed, it's gonna affect the
launch, and it's gonna affectthe spin.
And that's it.
That's what you need tounderstand.
Now, once you get into D liesand sometimes C lies, it can
affect the rotation of the clubface about the shaft.
So there's a little bit ofprediction with that too, in
terms of, okay, is this.

(15:50):
Grass that the golf club isinteracting with, going to
change the face rotation by thetime I get to impact or not.
Right.
And that's, again, that'ssomething that you need to work
through and have a strategy fordealing with that, as well.
But that's a little more rare.
But it's usually those threethings.
Ball, speed, launch, and spin.
As a general rule, again, I justworked through a, through D,

(16:12):
the, the, the greater thedensity of material that gets
between the face and the ball.
The lower the launch, the lowerthe ball speed, the lower the
spin, just as a, as a generalrule.
And if you can predict that,well, that's gonna go into the
club that you're using as wellas the speed that you're using.
That being said, once you'vegone ahead and made your

(16:33):
prediction as far as, Hey, whatclub am I using?
Speed, what have you, dependingon the, the shot that you have.
A lot of it for, we'll juststart with level one golfers.
A lot of it is just the skill.
Of managing that arc heightrelative to where the ball is in
space.
And I'd say that's probably themain thing.
There's plenty of times whereyou hit level one golfer hits

(16:54):
the ball in the rough and it'salmost a little bit easier,
right?
Because the ball, you might havean A lie or a B lie, and the
ball's kind of sitting up alittle bit, right?
And for those golfers who, let'ssay your tendency is for that
archive to be a little high orwhatnot, like it can work out
great.
There's also situations wherelevel one golfers who maybe have

(17:14):
an aversion to hitting theground or don't quite get the
bottom and swing arc as low as,they need to where they get a C
lie or a D lie.
And it's like almost a fullshot, maybe a shot and half
penalty because it takes'em twoto, to get it out of that just
because the arc height never gotlow enough for where the ball
was in space.
So that'd be my mainconsideration for level one.

(17:34):
Did you have any, anything else,Eric, for level one?

Eric (17:37):
for those golfers visualizing, when you say arch
height, so there's, there's,there's

Rob Failes (17:42):
Thank you.
Yes.
Yeah.

Eric (17:43):
Trying to visualize in space where the hula hoop of
your swing.
Arc is, is going relative to theground, and then there's also,
how deep that is relative to theball, right?
So higher or lower of the ball.
Then there's also low pointcontrol too, right?
So the which are, which are tiedtogether, but are different as
well.
And so some of those, like ifyou're a hang back scooper, have

(18:07):
a hard time in the rough, right?
Because your low point gets.
And so you start catching thegrass early.
and that's, that's trouble,right?
Some of the people that that hitwell outta the rough are the
over the top, steeper, steeperswings,

Rob Failes (18:23):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (18:24):
if they really come over the top and get ahead of it and
really smash down on it, theycan be good outta the rough,
actually get the ball outta therough easier.
So that can be one of theadjustments that you're making
actually, is that I will saythat,.
The biggest issue I see withplayers, I would say on the
level one spectrum, getting outof the rough is a, just
controlling the arc in a waythat's, it's somewhere

(18:47):
predictable, right?

Rob Failes (18:48):
Yeah.

Eric (18:48):
and low point.
The second is speed, like

Rob Failes (18:51):
Speed.
Yeah.

Eric (18:53):
the

Rob Failes (18:53):
Having literally enough, right?

Eric (18:55):
get the ball out.
As you get into the C lie andthe D lie, it could still

Rob Failes (19:00):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (19:01):
really hard.

Rob Failes (19:03):
Really tough.
Yeah.

Eric (19:03):
you almost have to do is create a strategy for getting
just back to the fairway,because you may even look at
that shot and go, oh, I mean,I'm, I'm hitting it towards the
hole, but I've gotta carry it 20yards to get outta the rough
back to, you

Rob Failes (19:19):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (19:19):
it's in that you might have to just go like, I'm not
sure I can do that.
have to go more sideways to the

Rob Failes (19:25):
Totally.

Eric (19:26):
Um, if you don't keep score, you may just fluff it up
in the rough and play.
I mean, to be honest, like justpop it up in the rough and try
to

Rob Failes (19:35):
Yeah.

Eric (19:36):
if you're not

Rob Failes (19:36):
Yeah.

Eric (19:37):
anyway, so I would say when you get in the rough, it's
a conundrum.
That's a big word.
It's a conundrum.
It's a catch

Rob Failes (19:46):
Yes.

Eric (19:47):
a new golfer, because here's the story.
I've gotta be pretty precise atthe bottom of the

Rob Failes (19:52):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Eric (19:54):
what feels like faster that that loss of control we add
speed lends to less control thebottom of the

Rob Failes (20:02):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (20:03):
So it's really

Rob Failes (20:04):
sure.

Eric (20:04):
just really tough.
Here's the story.
Don't hit it in the rough.
Hit it straight.
Take a golf lesson and get fitreally well for

Rob Failes (20:10):
Um, another, another point I wanted to make is, and
this kind of alludes to the, um,the loft fitting stuff that
you're talking about with, withirons, is that for a given
speed, there's definitely a, anan optimal launch that's gonna
give you the most carry.
So if you have the per, if youhave the perception as a, as a

(20:33):
level one golfer, like oh, just.
My longer clubs always gofurther.
Well, if you have a sea lie, Iwould be willing to bet that if
you're level one golfer, andlet's say you hit your driver
less than 180 yards, that a sixiron is going to go shore than a
seven iron out of the roof

Eric (20:54):
Mm-hmm.

Rob Failes (20:55):
and a sea lie, and potentially, potentially a seven
iron could go shorter than evenan eight iron.
So.
Generally speaking, again, thethe, as you go from C to D or
you get more stuff between theface of the ball, that launch is
gonna come down, the spin'sgonna come down, the ball
speed's gonna count, which meansthat you need more launch.

(21:16):
You need higher launch angles toget this thing to actually carry
far enough, which means that youneed to also be, again, when
you're reading the lie, whenyou're figuring out how slow
this thing's gonna come out,there's that law of diminishing
returns.
What's the, what's the leastamount of loft that I can play
and still retain that?
That nice launch angle.
Um, a lot of times it's gonna bea nine iron, it's gonna be an

(21:37):
eight, it's gonna be somethinglike that.
Some, you know, seven.
Once you get into six five andit gets a little bit dicey, you
better be getting pretty lucky,honestly, with the lie.
For those two to actually gofurther for a level one golf.

Eric (21:52):
Yeah, and I think that, one of the mistakes I see with
that level one, probably leveltwo, maybe even level three
golfer, nah, probably not levelthree golfer, They know that
it's hard, it's hard to hitoutta this.
So, okay, so, I'm one 50 out andthat's normally my seven iron.

Rob Failes (22:08):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (22:09):
should hit six or five iron here?
Because the ball comes out, youknow, slower sometimes the
answer's absolutely not right?

Rob Failes (22:18):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (22:19):
it might not come out at all, right?
Like it might, and

Rob Failes (22:21):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (22:21):
it does, it might fly so low to your point that it's
never gonna carry to get there.

Rob Failes (22:26):
Mm.

Eric (22:26):
Um.
So you're almost better, youknow, taking more loft and just
slashing at it in a way and seeif you can get it to

Rob Failes (22:34):
Yeah,

Eric (22:34):
and

Rob Failes (22:34):
exactly.

Eric (22:35):
Um, don't do a t Was that, was that Firestone, that tiger
hit that ridiculous pitchingwedge.
This is probably before you wereold enough to remember golf, but
tiger hit, I, should link thisin the show.
Maybe I'll try to find it.
Link it in the show notes.
Tiger hit a pitching wedge fromlike 185 yards at like Firestone
or one of these places from

Rob Failes (22:54):
Nice.
From a B lie, probably.

Eric (22:57):
no, no, no, no.
This thing was so far down.
He

Rob Failes (23:00):
Oh, was it?

Eric (23:01):
hard at this thing.
And the announcer, it waseither, I think it was David
Faherty.
It was just like, there's nochance, like any human can hit
that shot.
And he flew it

Rob Failes (23:09):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (23:10):
like five feet and made a birdie, put like,

Rob Failes (23:12):
That's insane.
Yeah.

Eric (23:13):
with a pitching wedge.
Um, so you almost have to justlike slash it out, right?
And

Rob Failes (23:18):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (23:19):
Take the medicine, like whether it's one 50 and you
should be able to hit it thatfar, a hundred yards.

Rob Failes (23:24):
Yep.

Eric (23:25):
there's times you've gotta read as that ball is going lower
in the rough.
To your point,

Rob Failes (23:29):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (23:29):
B2C to D, you've gotta be adding in my opinion, adding
loft and moving it back in yourstance to

Rob Failes (23:37):
Yep.
Sure.

Eric (23:38):
did, to hit down and chop it outta there.

Rob Failes (23:41):
Sure.

Eric (23:41):
it's the worse the lie is the more of a chop out it's
gonna be.
That's just the

Rob Failes (23:45):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (23:45):
That's just

Rob Failes (23:46):
I agree.

Eric (23:47):
So.
You know, the, otherconsideration that I see, and
this is something that I, Inoticed over time is there was
this notion that as the ball wasgetting into that B lie and C
lie, the ball's sitting down alittle bit more in the rough,
but I could still hit it.
That I should just take a hybrid'cause hybrids make it come out

(24:08):
better.

Rob Failes (24:09):
Yes, I know exactly where you're going here.

Eric (24:11):
Um, and.

Rob Failes (24:14):
and I agree.

Eric (24:15):
Yeah, so one of, one of the, one of the things that is
interesting about hybrid designis that the face is really
shallow, right?
So when you're trying to controlarc height, which is a struggle
outta the rough, right, with theball sitting in there, um, it's
really easy to hit it right offthe top of your hybrid and it,

Rob Failes (24:33):
Yes.

Eric (24:34):
straight up in the air, and it goes nowhere.
Like it goes nowhere.
And you get a big mark on thetop of your hybrid like it's.

Rob Failes (24:39):
Yeah, it's a fun time.

Eric (24:40):
The, the iron face is a lot deeper, right?
So you have more verticalcomponent to an iron face to be
able to catch that ball and hitit out.
So I would say I would try torevert to 7, 8, 9, uh, rather
than a

Rob Failes (24:56):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (24:57):
some people hit hybrid's really great outta there.
That's fine.
But as you're coming in withthat shallower attack angle,
'cause you're hitting a longerclub, A, you're more likely to
just hit more grass before theball.
And then

Rob Failes (25:10):
Yeah.

Eric (25:10):
shallower face, I think it's easier to hit it on the top
of the club.
And then you

Rob Failes (25:13):
Yeah.

Eric (25:14):
ver what's called vertical gear effect, where it adds a
bunch of loft and impact.
It just doesn't go anywhere,right?

Rob Failes (25:20):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (25:21):
my opinion is, you just want to, you know, play a club
outta there that you, that youknow you can get outta there.
Right?

Rob Failes (25:28):
Yeah.

Eric (25:28):
level one consideration is like.
Practice it.
Try to figure out if you canchop down on it with a, with a,
you know.
With a shorter club and get itand play more directly to the
fairway.
As you become level two player,you are probably reading the lie
a little bit better and matchingit to your skill and trying to
understand if you can hit ithigh enough, um, and control it

(25:51):
better and to thoseconsiderations you have with
Loft as you get to be a betterplayer.
We're talking level three islike a scratch golfer.
Now you're reading lies andtrying to get, is this a flyer?
Is this a, is it

Rob Failes (26:02):
Yeah.

Eric (26:03):
Is this into grain?
Is this down grain?

Rob Failes (26:05):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (26:05):
grass different than fescue grass, different than
blue grass, you know, differentthan cocoa grass or whatever.

Rob Failes (26:13):
Yeah.

Eric (26:13):
those different considerations as you're trying
to predict.
The ball coming out of it, butthe truth is you can't really
predict it very well.
Right.
So you're just making the besteducated guess and playing on,
so your best golfers, you know,those scratch golfers and
better.
Is there any uniqueconsiderations you're giving
them, Robbie, kind of outside ofwhat you've

Rob Failes (26:34):
Yes.
Yeah.
So this is where level two andlevel three into level four, you
need to understand how yourdispersion gets bigger.
Outta the rough and how much,um, so again, for, for my
golfers who are targeting usingfingers, uh, you're gonna wanna
figure out like, hey, for, forme in these particular shots,

(26:55):
how much am I widening out thatthat zone, right?
Because then that's gonna changeyour target, right?
Because our, our number one dealhere is like, hey, nothing
within this zone.
And again, it's not.
0% of our shots, right?
But understand like, hey, thisis, you know, in the, in the
neighborhood of, you know, 75,80 ish percent of shots are

(27:19):
gonna be in this zone, assumingI'm swinging and playing freely.
So for this lie, how big doesthat need to be?
And then where do I need to putthis so that zero of my, you
know, inside my dispersion aretouching a penalty area.
Um, would be number one.

(27:39):
And then getting as much of thaton the green as I can, number
two.
And then if I have margin oneither side, then I can slide it
closer to the flag number three.
So it's just like wind, it'slike headwind.
It's gonna increase yourdispersion.
Just like rough.
It's just another considerationthat you need to make in your
targeting.
You're just gonna be a littlemore conservative in your target
outta the rough in general.

Eric (27:59):
Again, I would say right to left dispersion and short to
long dispersion.
Right, it's really unpredictableon the carry

Rob Failes (28:05):
For sure.

Eric (28:06):
I guess if

Rob Failes (28:07):
And then as a,

Eric (28:08):
ahead.

Rob Failes (28:09):
and then as a level three golfer, especially if
you're, if you're in the rough,but you, let's say have less
than a six iron in or, or, so,you're gonna be also reading,
okay, based off this lie.
When the ball hits the green,how is it gonna respond off of
that?
Right.
And that's gonna get baked intoyour carry number,, that you're,
that you're intending to, tohit.

Eric (28:29):
So defining what a flyer lie is, you

Rob Failes (28:34):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (28:34):
people listening to this probably don't know what a flyer
lie is, although they probablyhave had one.
It just means that.
Grass gets between the club andthe face you make to pretty good
contact with it., But, the grassgets between the club and the
face and the ball basicallydoesn't spin as much.
So

Rob Failes (28:50):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (28:50):
spin, it just rockets off the club face and carry, it'll
carry a long way typically, andit will also roll a long way
when.
When it does finally hit planetEarth, which sometimes can be
way too long.
So trying to predict a flyer lieis really difficult, I think.

Rob Failes (29:06):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (29:06):
'Cause sometimes it comes out soft, sometimes it comes out

Rob Failes (29:09):
For sure.

Eric (29:10):
Then if you have wind to consider, that's a really big
consideration.
But it kind of goes back to theIron Loft fitting, conversation
too, because I'm fitting, youjust made this point a little
while ago, but they put it inthe context of Flyer lies You
know, non flyer lies.
If I'm getting a seven iron,that I'm just someone who
launches the ball low and I tendto land it at 38 degrees land

(29:33):
angle, right?
With 4,000 or 4,200 spin on aseven iron when I go in the
rough and that spin goes down.
I mean, that is a impossibleball to control, right?

Rob Failes (29:45):
A hundred percent.

Eric (29:45):
fitting them on these optimal launch conditions from a
mat or from a fairway line.
Right?
But you

Rob Failes (29:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

Eric (29:55):
Realize when you put that in the context of playing the
golf course, there is somestruggles out there when you're
talking about the spin goingdown even more from an optimal
spin.
So

Rob Failes (30:06):
Yep.

Eric (30:07):
puts it another one of those revolutionary things with
this, with the loft fitting.
And again, I could always, sosomeone's listening to this
being like, Eric, you couldalways change the loss.
That is a hundred percent true.
But, it was always a guess.
I would always have to guesslike, oh, is this gonna help the
person or

Rob Failes (30:25):
Ah, it's probably like a degree weaker or two
degrees.
Now you, you're like, yes, youare.
Two degree.
Yeah.

Eric (30:31):
man.
I know it's working

Rob Failes (30:33):
for sure.

Eric (30:33):
So I think that that getting your irons fit properly
is such a, it's such a big deal

Rob Failes (30:41):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (30:42):
about it from good condition, but man, when it gets
to be, from the, from not greatconditions.
It's really, really helpful tohave irons that really,, fit you
well and can really work fromall condition.
So level th level threeconsideration there.
I think reading Elia is huge, toyour point, like

Rob Failes (31:03):
Yeah,

Eric (31:03):
dispersion because

Rob Failes (31:05):
that's most of it, to be honest.
Obviously there's, there'salways skill stuff present, but
it's not their ability toproduce a skill, right?
They're producing the skillwithin reason.
But it's their, what theyintended wasn't matching what
was needed.
Right.
So it's, yeah.
For, again, for level three andlevel four golfers, I almost

(31:27):
always start with prediction,right?
Because it's, most of the time,,they think it's their swing or
they think it's their skill, andin reality it's just their,
their prediction of, of whatthey're trying to do.

Eric (31:39):
Awesome.
So I think that was a prettycomprehensive discussion of,

Rob Failes (31:43):
Yeah, agree.
I think we hit on it.

Eric (31:45):
about that mainly from a, from a full swing discussion.
We didn't get into it as much onthe short game, and I think
that's okay.

Rob Failes (31:51):
But it's pretty, yeah, no, it's, it's just, it's,
the rules are the same.
A, B, C, D is changing thelaunch.
It's changing the ball speed.
It's changing the spin.
Um, and then it's your abilityto read what's gonna happen, and
create a choice of loft speed.
Right.
And match your skill Right tothat.

Eric (32:12):
I think we covered,, in some of our short game episodes,
playing from the rough aroundthe green, so

Rob Failes (32:17):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (32:18):
probably go back and check out some of those episodes or
review some of those episodes.
But,

Rob Failes (32:22):
Yeah.
Should probably, hopefully heara lot of the same stuff, but
it's goods.

Eric (32:26):
we've changed our mind, but I don't think so.
we have to trust the science,Robbie, so we're trusting the

Rob Failes (32:32):
Yeah.
No, we're, we're, we're juststuck in our ways, man.

Eric (32:36):
stuck in our ways.
So yeah, thank you for thatdiscussion.
I thought that was good.
So,

Rob Failes (32:42):
Yeah.
Agreed.

Eric (32:43):
I'll check in with my friend, see, see if she learned
something from that.
So lessons from the lesson tee.
I think this is kind

Rob Failes (32:51):
Yeah.
What you've been seeing,

Eric (32:52):
this is kind of turned into one of my more favorite,
parts of the podcast.
'cause I think people can sortof,

Rob Failes (32:57):
I've actually gotten some good feedback on it too.

Eric (32:59):
people can see themselves in these stories a bit.

Rob Failes (33:02):
Yeah.

Eric (33:03):
Talking about golf performance from just a, the
standpoint of a textbook.
Like if you do this, then allthese if then discussions, like
if your ball's in a CY thenplay, like that's, you know, but

Rob Failes (33:14):
Hm.

Eric (33:14):
Like that's

Rob Failes (33:15):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (33:17):
But then like understanding an individual
person and their

Rob Failes (33:23):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (33:23):
needs and what their hopes and goals are, and then how
we've.
Help those people develop orhelp them learn how to develop.
I think people can seethemselves in those stories.
And so, um, you said you had,you had one you wanted to
discuss today, which I

Rob Failes (33:39):
Yeah, yeah,

Eric (33:40):
to hear about it.

Rob Failes (33:41):
no.
It's funny when you startteaching, you have.
Just random weeks where you seelike similar stuff,, you know,
multiple days of that week.
And this week was really funny.
So, almost every lesson that,that I teach, I don't, I don't,
shy away from, from advertisingit.
You're gonna get, anunderstanding of, of your

(34:03):
rhythm, right?
What does swinging freely meanto you?
You're gonna get anunderstanding of training skill.
I mean, you're gonna get anunderstanding of strategy, which
is your, decision making andyour shot process, what is
relevant to you to get better,right?
So that's my, that's what we do.
That's what we talk about on apodcast every day.
Throughout the week when I'vebeen, when I was doing skill

(34:24):
training, and I don't know if itwas how I was presenting it or
if it was just the random lookof the draw, I had three
separate people.
In the same week completelyconfuse face to path in
horizontal impact, spot on theface, heel to toe.

(34:47):
So I remember sending you thisvideo or this text, I said, Hey,
don't let me forget., This is,this is what I wanted to talk
about on the podcast and.
For this golfer, every singletime we would try to do heel or
toe strikes.
So again, I was very, I wastrying my best to be very clear

(35:09):
that, hey, all we're changinghere is the location of your low
point, basically the bottom ofyour swing in space.
All right, for a toe strike, thebottom of the swing is closer to
you, closer to your feet.
For a heel strike.
The bottom of the swing is.
Further forward away from yourfeet.

(35:31):
And every single time when hewould try to give it a heel
strike, he would open the faceand a toe strike, he would close
the face.
And I thought, huh, that'spretty interesting.
And so I, I obviously brought tohis attention and then we said,
Hey, you're not changing theface.

(35:51):
You're just changing.
And then we went on about itand.
It happened again, likeliterally, like within the week,
same thing.
No, we're not changing face,we're just, and then it, it
happened again.
And,, they, they did not all dothe same thing.
So,, I had, I had one who wasclosing the face more for heel

(36:12):
strikes and, and opening theface more for toe strikes.
So it wasn't that, but I think.
Oftentimes golfers, when theyhit it right or left, they might
think that, oh, it was justbecause I hit it on the heel or
the toe, right?
In reality, like, no, it's justwhere the face was pointed and

(36:32):
vice versa, right?
If they, they feel a heel strikeor a toe strike, they're
perceiving it as the face beingopen or closed.
Like, no, it was just where theswing was in space.
So it was a very, very bizarreweek.
But just so everyone knows,.
The impact spot on the face.
So where the ball is touching onthe face is completely

(36:55):
different, separate than wherethe face is pointed when it hits
the ball.
And I know like if you'velistened to this podcast before,
this should be very much reviewfor you.
This is caption, you know, butdo not assume, this is not like
captain obvious stuff from a,like a field perspective as
you're swinging a golf club andyou're experiencing impacts
perspective.

(37:16):
Especially if you're a littlebit more limited in your
experience.
This is not captain obviousstuff.
Like people need to, to havethat awareness of like, hey,
there is a difference in wherethe ball hits on the face.
Or there can be a difference inwhere the ball is hitting on the
face versus where the ball'sgoing because of where the face
is pointed at impact.

(37:37):
So,, it was very interesting.
I, I think it was just a goodreminder that we needed to take
our time with our students andwe need to make sure that.
Their perceptions and theirconcepts of what we are talking
about in term, in terms of skillis very, very, very clear.
Because I do it all day and Isometimes get in the habit of
just like skimming and kind ofrunning through it.

(37:58):
And that week really taught meto just slow down, take a, take
a deep breath, and just, youknow, we don't have to get
through every single skill inone lesson, essentially.
I've, I've gotten to the pointnow to where it's like.
All right.
If this person just really needsa better understanding of this
one particular aspect of arclocation, whether it be a height
or arc location forward back,then we just don't even get past

(38:20):
that.
We just do that.
Right., And it's been good.
So that, that was my, that wasmy main lesson.

Eric (38:26):
I think it's, it's good to point out that not every person
that plays golf, and I thinkthere's plenty of people
probably listening to this, andI would put myself in this as a
golfer for a long time when Iwas learning to play this game,
is that I really had no ideawhat made the ball go where it
went.
I had no idea, you know, I wouldswing and hope it would go
straight and I would try toswing better and I would try to,
you

Rob Failes (38:45):
Yeah.

Eric (38:46):
this, I'm talking about 30 years ago when there was no
track man, and there was no, youknow, there was no understanding
from a science perspective, andI was trying to learn golf.
Like I, I didn't really know.
is what, this is what you, whenyou're going through
development, it's aboutacquiring skill.
Okay, so I just watched, youknow, I wouldn't say a lot of

(39:08):
the US open tennis.
I watched some of it I justcan't, I play a little bit of
racket sports.
My daughter plays tennis.
We play some pickleball.
I like tennis.
amount of skill that thosetennis players have is
mindboggling.
It's

Rob Failes (39:25):
It is,

Eric (39:26):
right?
It's easy to see.
I think it plays out in tennis.
You can see that skill, the waythey control the

Rob Failes (39:34):
uh.

Eric (39:34):
right?
in golf is about control, right?
So what are you controlling?
You're controlling where theball's sitting on the face,
right?
You're controlling where theface is pointed.
But those are separate, right?
To your point.
And, and they both have theinfluence on where the ball
goes.
And so I think that, trying tosort out in your mind as a
golfer.
Why is my ball going where it'sgoing and why is it not going

(39:55):
where, where I hope it to go orwhy am I not controlling it very
well?
And that's to your point aboutit, you know, do I have, do I
have the right perception ofwhat's going on?
And this is where coaching comesin because sometimes we

Rob Failes (40:07):
Yeah.

Eric (40:08):
know.
And sometimes I don't know aboutmy own swing.
I've gotta kind of sort throughit a little bit.

Rob Failes (40:13):
Oh my gosh.
Like, and this is every week Iget golfers who are perceiving,
they're hitting the heel andthey're actually hitting the
toe.
I have golfers who areperceiving that the ball's going
left because their hips andreality, it's the face being
closed.
Right.
So like this is a, this is anevery, every week thing.
Yeah, for sure.

Eric (40:32):
we wanna correlate the proper things to the proper
outcomes.
And so yeah, to your point, Yourhips are not causing the ball to
go right or left, you know, theclub face is causing the ball to
go right or left.
And so gotta sort that through.
So, yeah, I think that's reallygood.
I mean, I, I, uh, I didn't comeinto this one tonight with a
specific story from the recenttime.

(40:54):
It's just been, it's been a funseason of teaching.
I've taught probably more thisyear than ever'cause I've
played.
Played less

Rob Failes (41:00):
Yeah.

Eric (41:00):
and I'm just kind of cranking him out these days.
And,

Rob Failes (41:04):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (41:04):
it's been, it's been fun.
It's been fun seeing some newergolfers really

Rob Failes (41:09):
Yeah.

Eric (41:09):
to play an acquiring skill, right.
And then practicing in a waywhere they can adjust on their
own.
I had a, I had a listener who Iworked with, on his game.
He's a member, but he, he likesto listen to the show and he was
telling me today, he's like.
I'm able to understand on thecourse when things go sideways,
how to change it because you'vehelped me learn what the

Rob Failes (41:30):
Yes.

Eric (41:31):
and he's a 16 handicap, you know, he is like, I don't
have.
A hundred percent control ofwhat I'm doing all the time, but
I can make adjustments when Isee issues mid round.
so I think from a teachingperspective, currently, I'm
trying to really instill in theplayer, almost teaching from
skill backwards and, and thentrying to

Rob Failes (41:49):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (41:50):
have the swing react to how they want

Rob Failes (41:53):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (41:54):
right?
So.

Rob Failes (41:55):
That's, that's, yes, absolutely.
Like when it comes to geometry,right?
So three aspects of the swing,energy, time, geometry, energy.
Really just an amount of like,and how amount of momentum,
amount of work.
And it also comprises of likehow you're doing it, how you're
putting the energy in, right?

(42:17):
Time really.
The, the, the amount of time andthe pattern of time, right.
Which we call rhythm.
And then there's geometry,right?
Which is the positions, right?
The, the locations in spacewhere the club is swinging
through.
I currently believe that theshot creates the geometry.,

(42:39):
Whatever shot you're trying tohit, right?
The geometry is subordinate tothat shot.
What does not change, is the,relative to the shot, how you're
putting energy into it, right?
And the pattern of that energyas well as the, the time
aspects, are gonna, again, thegeneral rhythms gonna stay
really, really consistent.

(43:00):
Even though the amount of energymight change, the time of the
swing might change a little bit,but the rhythm.
Of the swing is gonna be,extremely consistent, ideally.

Eric (43:09):
So I've, I've been working with a level three player, and
this is, goes right to the pointyou just made, who's trying to
be a level four player.
So he's working towards tryingto play as a tour player He's
coming off injury.
He came to see me and I hadn'tever worked with him.
And I'm watching, watching hiscontrol the ball first and

(43:30):
trying to make a judgment uponthat to help him the best I can
and realizing he's notcontrolling the ball.
He knows this by the way.
He knows he's not controlled theball, he the way he wants to.
not good enough to be a tourplayer and then in the moment,
and so he needs some change tohis swing.
This is a swing change, right?
It wasn't a skill chain.
This was a swing change what hewas doing from the geometry

(43:51):
wasn't gonna produce the, thedispersion pattern, the control
that he needed.
so I'm looking at differentways, right?
Like a little bit of Hand path.
Um, what is lower bodies doingrelative to his upper body?
How's rotating through theswing?
There's all kinds of stuff goingon.
And we kind of worked back andforth on stuff and I finally
said, can you hit a draw for me?

(44:12):
Okay.
I turned his, I turned his focusto the

Rob Failes (44:17):
Yeah.

Eric (44:17):
right?
And all of a

Rob Failes (44:19):
Yep.

Eric (44:19):
the hand path changed.
Okay?

Rob Failes (44:22):
Yep.

Eric (44:22):
changed, the left knee started working differently, and
all of a sudden.
my gosh.
He said freedom.
I, this is, I'm freed up.
Right.
He's playing

Rob Failes (44:31):
Yeah,

Eric (44:32):
So it just, to the point you made, he, we changed his
focus onto the shot and then hisswing, or what you call

Rob Failes (44:39):
the gm, the geometry.

Eric (44:40):
it just changed right.
Without him

Rob Failes (44:44):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (44:44):
too much about it.
So.
Absolutely can happen.
But again, it's really hard todo that on your own.
I mean, I think you need alittle guidance on that, knowing
what to do, when to do it.

Rob Failes (44:56):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (44:57):
but yeah, great story, Rob.
That was really, that was reallygood.
And I think that's things thathopefully the listener can latch
onto a little bit, learn

Rob Failes (45:04):
Yep.
Yep.

Eric (45:05):
so if you're practicing listener practice, just like
Robbie always says, can you hitit on the toe?
Can you hit it on the heel?
Can you move the low pointaround a little bit?
Can you practice with the faceopen?
Can you practice with the faceclose?
Can you hit it in the middle ofthe face with a face open with
the face closed to change the

Rob Failes (45:22):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (45:23):
That type of skill training will do you an amazing
amount of goodwill in the longrun where you can really start
to

Rob Failes (45:31):
Yep.

Eric (45:31):
make the ball do what you would like it to do.
And on that front, Rob fails.
Anything else,, you'd like toadd on the back end of today's
episode, which I'm so glad.
We got recorded and I hope mycomputer worked so that we
don't, we don't

Rob Failes (45:46):
Yeah.
No, no.
I think, I think we hit on it.

Eric (45:51):
So, cool.
So Robbie and I are working ona, a, a project for our
substack, which is gonna bereally.
I think really good and all andand ongoing.
So we're gonna start populatingthe substack with more and more,
content as we go.
And one big project, which Idon't wanna mention yet'cause we
haven't recorded the firstepisode, but I, I want to tease

(46:12):
it a little bit and then we'llrecord an episode on it.
We'll go from there.
But let's just say it's gonna bea very, um, it's gonna be a case
study

Rob Failes (46:21):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (46:22):
somebody creating a long-term ongoing plan for plan.
The best golf that they can, andit's gonna hit from every angle
we're talking, lifestyle,nutrition, sleep, you know,
recovery, exercise, equipmentstrategy training.

(46:44):
Organization of life and timeand family,, all these things,
um, that all of us really,really need to learn from.
So that'll be on the substack,,coming.
So it's not out yet, but we'regonna record the first

Rob Failes (46:57):
Loading.

Eric (46:58):
soon loading.
So that'll be really, reallygood.
So you want to check that out.
We'll let you know when it'slive on there.
You'll see, you'll see.
If you don't follow us on theSubstack, you should, there's a
free, there's a free, version,which we do put some stuff.
I put a newsletter out or some,some videos.
And then there's the behind thepaywall stuff, which this case
study will be.
But if you just follow us onthe, on the other part of it,

(47:19):
you'll get some notifications onstuff and you can decide

Rob Failes (47:21):
Yeah.

Eric (47:23):
support the show in that way.
But we are just glad that youtune in, to be quite honest.
We're

Rob Failes (47:27):
Mm-hmm.

Eric (47:28):
So.
With that being said, thank youfor tuning into another edition
of the Golf InterventionPodcast.
We are now celebrating two yearsof doing this.
This is episode

Rob Failes (47:40):
Whew.

Eric (47:41):
so we're about two,

Rob Failes (47:42):
That's crazy.

Eric (47:43):
episodes a month, which for us feels,, I think feels
pretty good.
I'd like to put more out, but wejust, you know, life lifes and
we, we run into stuff,

Rob Failes (47:52):
Yep.

Eric (47:53):
Yeah, so thanks Rob fails.
It's been, it's been

Rob Failes (47:56):
Thank you.

Eric (47:56):
We're gonna keep going.

Rob Failes (47:57):
Fun times.

Eric (47:58):
if you have any questions for us, you can always hit us up
on social media.
I've put my swing on socialmedia recently, so if you're
interested on how Eric Leightonswings the club, I've been doing
some little swing stuff on therejust for fun., And so I'm Eric
Clayton PGA at Eric Clayton PGAon Instagram.
If you wanna check it out, andsee what I've got going on with
my swing.

(48:19):
I'm unafraid to share it.
not too bad.
It can, it can improve, but it'snot too bad right now.
so check that out there and youcan always,, send us a DM or a
message on there asking us,,some questions that you'd like
to us to cover on the show.
'cause we're always looking forsome good ideas.
So that's all I got for thisevening.
Rob fails.
Thank you again for being on.
It's always a pleasure.

(48:41):
have a great week out there inCharlottesville.
I'll actually be inCharlottesville tomorrow.
No, not tomorrow, Thursday.
Yeah, just, I gotta drop somestuff off to my son who is a
Oahu, as they say.

Rob Failes (48:53):
Well come on by.

Eric (48:54):
may, maybe I will.
It'll be late in the evening, soyou'll probably be home by then.
But,

Rob Failes (48:58):
Oh yeah, we got our second day of our golf school,
so sorry.
I don't have time for you.

Eric (49:03):
it's an, it's an immersive experience at golf school.

Rob Failes (49:06):
It is

Eric (49:07):
Have fun with the golf school.
Alright, boss.

Rob Failes (49:09):
right.

Eric (49:10):
you sir.

Rob Failes (49:10):
See ya.
All right.
Bye-bye.