Ch 2: Ep 6| Faith, Fear, and the Fog in Between Ft. Chrissy Phillips

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Dr. Gray and Chrissy dive deep into the messy middle ground between unwavering faith and paralyzing fear. What happens in that foggy space where certainty dissolves and trust is tested?

Through personal stories and vulnerable reflections, they explore how doubt isn't necessarily the enemy of faith but often a necessary companion on the journey. Chrissy shares her experience being nicknamed "Doubting Thomas" by friends and how constantly questioning actually led to deeper conviction. Meanwhile, Dr. Gray reflects on surrendering his own carefully-crafted plans to embrace a greater purpose beyond himself.

The conversation takes a fascinating turn when they compare spiritual uncertainty to driving through fog - you can't see the destination clearly, but you continue moving forward with caution and trust. "The fog is a test, it's a pause, and it's also protection," they observe, noting how these uncertain seasons often produce the most significant growth.

Both hosts open up about moments when prayer felt ineffective and God seemed silent, revealing how presence rather than perfection ultimately bridges the gap. They challenge the notion that faith requires complete certainty, suggesting instead that authentic spirituality makes room for questions while still maintaining trust.

Whether you're questioning your faith, feeling stuck in uncertainty, or simply curious about navigating life's foggy seasons with greater clarity, this episode offers both comfort and practical wisdom. The hosts conclude with powerful advice they'd give their younger selves about faith - embracing emotional honesty with God and understanding that making mistakes is part of the journey, not a deviation from it.

What questions do you have about faith and doubt? Send them our way for future episodes as we continue exploring the good, the bad, and everything in between.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the good, the bad and the great podcast,
where we shine a light onwellness, personal growth and
relationships.
Together, we'll discuss highsand lows and the in-betweens,
offering different perspectiveson health and wellness.
Tune in as we peel back thelayers of life, revealing the
good, the bad and the great.

(00:24):
I'm your host, dr Gray.
We have Chrissy back in thebuilding.
Chrissy P AKA.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Christina.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Christina?
What else do they call youCoach?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Chrissy Coach, chrissy Mom, auntie, sister
Christina, what else did theycall you Coach, chrissy Coach.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Chrissy, mom, auntie, sister, nice.
So from our last podcast, whichI think we've had a lot of
downloads from that podcast toserve, or not, surprisingly,
wasn't me?
I think it was me, yo, possibly.
I think it was for sure you.
I think you blessed us withyour presence and whatever

(01:07):
information you gave on thepodcast.
There's definitely some gemsdropped.
It was a good podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
To Serve or Not to Serve.
Guys, if you haven't listenedto it, check it out.
That's episode three.
Yeah it's our episode three inour second chapter.
Just verifying that.
Hey, renee, episode three right, right, right right.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's episode three.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, cool, cool.
So, yeah, this podcast if youguys haven't, or you're first
listeners, it's called the Good,the Bad and the Gray.
The reason behind the meaningand the title of this podcast is
I wanted to kind of dive alittle bit deeper in the
perspective of the gray area fora lot of people.
I think a lot of people getlost in the fact of if they're,

(01:49):
you know, good or bad, black andwhite, and I think a lot of
people start in the middle butthey don't know which side or
the take, depending on theirperspective and their upbringing
.
So, for me, let's have thatconversation in the middle and
maybe you drift to a certainside and maybe that's through
fitness, maybe that's throughmental health, maybe that's
through coaching, maybe that'sthrough spiritual or, you know,

(02:09):
religion, whatever you're you'reinterested in, based off our
topics.
Um, yeah, so, chrissy, what'sbeen going on with you?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
talk to us what has not been going on, oh wow um,
today has been a long day.
First, it started off with medoing a workout without my
AirPods.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Whoa.
You know what I saw her.
I said hello when yourheadphones at.
I was like you're brave, so no,ma'am.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Raw dog in a workout without headphones?
No, ma'am.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I had some good workouts with no headphones, but
continue.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
I don't know.
I have to have some headphones.
I also just made a new workoutplaylist.
I was super excited to play itand I just left my headphones at
home.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
The devil truly was after me this morning like man
he made you go to work with nomusic no music give us a brief,
you know, synopsis of this, thisplaylist, like what's on it
well it's.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
It's honestly a little bit of everything.
So we got some some trap music,we got some nice r&b music, we
got some classic beats up inthere, some edm.
You know just a little bit ofeverything.
We got some christian rap up inthere, some lecrae kb, um.
So yeah, it's a.
It's a nice mix of everything.
You know, when I want to sprint, I got something to sprint to.

(03:21):
When I want to iron out some,some weights and the squats-
yeah we got something to listento, so it's a good, good mix,
you know it sounds rough like aleg day with no music is oh my
gosh, it was so hard.
I don't know how I made itthrough.
I want to just go go back home,but you know we did it I was.

(03:42):
It's my last workout for atleast two weeks, whoa.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
RIP.
Why is that?

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Because I'm going to Serbia tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Oh, okay, serbia.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's time for the mission trip.
Okay, yeah, I'm excited, butalso nervous at the same time,
because I don't know what'sgoing to entail in it, right?
But you know, this year is theyear of yes, the year of try
different things.
So we're going for it.
We're trying everything.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Okay, okay, the year of yes for you, the year of yes
for me, after your eight yearremoval of your life, right the
eight year.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Right, we're starting fresh, but yeah, that's pretty
much all that I've been up to.
My dogs are at my parents'house.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
So it's been a quiet week.
I did some much-needed cleaning.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
so the house is all nice and spick and span.
Wow, I wish I could say thesame thing.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Sounds like somebody got some work to do.
You have no idea.
You've been in two places thatwell.
Anyways, it's not about me,Right?
Literally, it's not about me.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Sounds like you got to unpack something, no.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, I guess I'll do a quick update.
Everything is good, great,actually Actually too great.
What, yeah I mean?
Well, I mean, it's just, howcan I get this out?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I think, You're on cloud nine.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I'm on cloud nine.
I'm seeing like a lot of thesmall details.
And I'm on cloud nine, I'mseeing like a lot of the small
details and I'm very likeappreciative of like these
moments, like small things, andI'm also getting a lot of
feedback on some things that Ireally haven't like fully
recognized.
Like you know, I was at lunchwith a colleague what last week

(05:24):
and he's older you gentlemen,he's like he was in the military
, he's maybe like in his 50s.
We were having a conversationabout something and I brought up
like someone getting theirdoctorate with a CFD background.
Cfd is computational fluiddynamics.
For people that don't know muchabout that.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
It's like a lot of you know coding et cetera, okay,
cool.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
And I was like man, like those, right, right.
So your initial thought to that?
I was like, yeah, man, peoplethat get their PhD with that CFD
background, they're completelylike, they're super smart.
But you know, I don'tunderstand how they would go
through that.
He was like you do realize,people say the exact same thing
about you.
That he was like you do realizepeople say the exact same thing
about you.
And I was like what do you mean?
It's like, bro, like not a lotof people do that.
They have done what you're youhave done.
Uh, not a lot of people want todo it, but just for you to do

(06:13):
it and be able to be who you areis it's huge.
He said you need to wear thatdoctor a little bit more.
He said I could tell when youwalk in the room you're just
like you're old, you're justyour normal self.
And he said you need to wear itbecause people, especially of
your kind, he spoke he's likepeople, like young black man.
They see other people boastingabout where they are based off

(06:34):
their you know, their rapperswhatever they are he said, dude,
you're a doctor.
and he was like you need to walkin the room and and show them
that, hey, I, I'm a doctor, Ilook like this, I speak like
this, and it really gave me awhole like a schooling.
I was like bro, it didn't dawnon me, like small moments have
been happening where I've beenlike okay, whoa, but he hit me

(06:56):
with it and I was like you knowwhat he was, like man, wear it,
it's going to inspire a lot ofpeople.
And I think you know, don't?
He's like just don't play itdown, play it like.
I see you're doing it.
And I was like dang, you knowwhat Maybe these are.
This is the moment that I needto kind of like, really stand on
and I'm slowly, like, slowlygetting there in terms of like

(07:16):
just leading with it.
So, you know, the youth, or youknow kids, are getting ready to
go to high school and needsomeone to look up to.
They can say, hey, wow, dr Graylooks just like me and he is an
engineering, and he's a thermalengineer, to be exact.
He's done X, y and Z.
I can do that.

(07:37):
I think a lot of those momentshave been happening recently and
I'm like man, my biggest, andI'll make this short because I
get long-winded for some reason.
but very the biggest thing forme is, though, is like, and I
think that the theme for thismonth is how do I give what I've

(07:57):
been blessed with back?
yeah and that's like knowledge,that's, um, finances, that's all
these different type of thingsthat are there being pouring in,
that are pouring in.
How do I pour them back?
And yeah, that's my biggestthing and I think I'm in this
moment of figuring it out and Ithink, slowly, I'm finding that
direction, obviously because Iknow who I'm led by at this

(08:19):
point.
So it's no more, it's no ego oranything like that.
So, yeah, biggest point rightnow for me is to how do I give
what I've been blessed with back?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, so yeah, that's good Cool, thank you, I like it
.
Yeah, you can also wear yourdoctorate shirt, so you can wear
it well.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
All the time you know Really.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
You gotta wear it well.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Isn't that?
Like you know, I got a doctor.
But if they do ask, I thinkpeople are not going to realize.
They're not going to think Ihave it in engineering.
They're going to be like, oh,he's got a doctor in something
else.
Business, yeah, but business.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Communication.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Which there's no shade to anyone.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Okay, because I thought you were going to say
music.
No, music is good.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Psychology is good.
Honestly, if I wasn't anengineer, I would have
definitely been a psychologist.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think you would have been a great one.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I would have been a psychologist.
All right, cool.
This is enough about.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
I got to tell you about yourself, because I don't
appreciate you accepting whatthe man told you and I told you
on episode one yeah yeah, yeah.
Of chapter two.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
You're a doctor, Like how many.
How many times have I said thatI guess you just had to get
hooded.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, the hood, the hood, the hood.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
I was like, yo, I really am a doctor now, right,
Right, I appreciate that.
I think, like I said, I don'tknow.
I've never been a boastfulperson.
I never bragged about anythingI've accomplished.
I've always worked extremelyhard.
So when I've done something,even in the gym, classroom,
financial, business-wise I'venever like said, okay, cool, let

(09:49):
me show the world what I havedone.
It's always been like, oh cool,I did it.
What's next, you know?
So that is something I do wantto give back to people and we'll
do a podcast breaking that down, that mindset, because I think
it's something else I'verealized.
You know, just reflecting onthose moments, what I've used to
keep me going and I think youasked me that and we'll talk

(10:10):
about that again.
What's the topic of today?
It's nothing about weed, heythat's it, Renee, oh my.
God, Sorry you guys.
What's the topic of today?

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Today, y'all are going to be talking about faith,
fear and the fog in between,which I love that, because
you're about to go on a missiontrip, I know so fitting right
here in the fog in between.
When you hear that, what do you?

Speaker 3 (10:35):
think about.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
I think about a lot of like being on the fence of
faith.
So you know you, you have yourfaith, but then you sometimes
can be rooted in a lot of doubt.
Um, I know, for like a goodfirst part of my faith journey,
I was rooted in a lot of doubt,like my friends nicknamed me
Doubting Thomas.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Really.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yes, it was that bad and honestly, like I can
honestly attest to say, yeah, Iwas Doubting Thomas, I was
Doubting Chrissy, doubtedeverything, like there was no
way that God could do somethingfor me.
And it was for me.
Yeah, that's what I think about, wow the fog.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, I think when I hear it, I think about you know,
doubt as well, but more thananything, the fear of of
surrendering yeah when I hearthe faith, fear and the fog in
between, fear stands out alittle bit more because I think
a lot of people live in thatfear of not the of the unknown
right, something they don't see.

(11:31):
So it's kind of difficult to tohave trust in something that
you don't see man, you know andI think that goes into a lot of
how you know, religion,spiritualism.
Everything is shifting.
Now.
A lot of people are movingtowards more, towards the faith.
A lot of people are, you know,compartmentalizing certain parts

(11:54):
of it and saying I don't wantto deal with this, this, and
that this is what I like thebest, and that's the fog in
between.
It's trying to figure out whatis what.
Yeah, um, but yeah, when?
When I hear it, I think fearstands out, because I can see a
lot of people that arestruggling with, you know,
believing in something that theydon't see.
They don't know that they feellike, because a lot of people,

(12:15):
to be honest, they will believein the dollar before they
believe in anything else.
Right, because they can feelthe dollar.
Right, they can see it Becausethey can feel the dollar.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
They can see it.
I mean, I remember a time,specifically, where I would
literally just question if Godwas actually real, like I was a
Christian I've been a Christianall my life but it was times
where I was just like there's noway that God's real.
Like scientifically, can youreally prove that God is real.
Or like when something happensit's like wait, this doesn't
really make sense.
Even sometimes when I read theBible, I'm like this don't

(12:46):
really seem like it couldactually happen.
Like could someone actuallypart the Red Sea right in the
middle and let people walkthrough Crazy right, crazy work?
But then you know, when youreally think about it, like
that's just faith, Like faith issomething that you just believe
in, whether you see it or not,and you just got in, whether you
see it or not, and you justgotta trust it.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I agree.
Uh, I think for me like comingup and also being an academic,
being like that mindset ofscience first you do question
like, is this real?
Like you know science, I thinkfor a long time science and
religion have like battled eachother and, to be quite frank, I
think a lot of it.

(13:26):
Now, if you're, stutter,studying it a little bit more,
you starting to see there's somecorrelation and I think you
know more scientists, morepeople, and feel quantum
mechanics.
If you guys and I'm big- inquantum mechanics whatever but
gracious I've actually juststarted reading this book
because I got time.
Obviously, all the time does hereally have time about quantum

(13:46):
mechanics and consciousness.
I do have time.
What are you talking about?
Excuse me, look, I've literallyI thought I'd never do this
after after my doctor.
I thought I'd never do thisafter my doctor is.
Teach myself something else.
Now I'm like, literally Ibought like 3 or four books on
quantum mechanics and I'm divingdeep into it nerd.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm so excited for this quantum mechanics podcast
episode.
I'm so sick of it yeah, we'regonna have like segments.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Oh, we're gonna have segments.
I think a lot of people don'tlisten to science or don't, you
know, really pay attention toscience, but it's a lot of
things that are very interestingand that you know.
If you understand it and youcan apply certain principles and
theories to like real life, itwould blow your mind, okay.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
You're so excited, I know right.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Because this is, this is something, okay, all right,
cool.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Oh, we're not even talking about science right now.
What are we talking about?
Cool, calm down the faiththeory.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
So back to that.
Back to our topic.
I think you know my point was,like I got into this realm of,
like academic and I would alwaysquestion things and my mom,
like when she was bringing us up, always pushes into the church
but I've always, like, I wasalways apprehensive, like you
know hold on, like, and thenwhen I got in college, I tested
that a lot more like mom youknow, I don't know about xyz, if

(15:08):
you read this, this says thisbut scientifically this doesn't
make sense and and I could tell,like, her frustrations.
But she always stayed in herfaith, like I couldn't say
anything to her to discourageher from what she knew, no
matter how smart she orintelligent she thought I was.
So, um, I think I challenged ita lot growing up, but now it's

(15:29):
a little bit more, you know, itflows a little bit better, I
understand it a little bit more.
I think once you get to thatpoint of surrender, which we'll
talk about a little bit later,you get a better understanding
of what is going on and whatfaith truly is.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
So, on the fog, do you feel like doubt is a
betrayal of faith, or is it apart of the process?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
You know, I used to think that it was a betrayal of
faith until I read something.
I can't remember what I read,but it was just like God wants
us to bring our doubts to himbecause that's a way for him to
come in and just show what hecan do.
There's been so many times, likeI mentioned, me doubting God,
whether he's real, or whethersomething could happen in my

(16:14):
life or he could do somethingfor me or whatever it may be,
and he has come in and justreally shown me like I hear you,
I see you, like he is truly theGod of El Roy, which means God
sees me.
And so there was like a momentspecifically I'm losing my voice
today there was a momentspecifically where I was praying

(16:38):
to God for something to happen,for him to just like remove
something, or it was something Ican't remember exactly what it
was and months went by, yearswent by, and then all of a
sudden it happened and I wasjust like wait, I remember
writing this down in my journallike X amount of years ago, and
I was just like God actuallydoes see me, he actually does

(17:01):
hear me, like he, he knows metruly, and it was one of the.
It was kind of like my ahamoment of like, wow, I could
doubt God, but I know that allthe time he's going to come
through for me and show me whohe is, because he is the God of
the impossible and he can doanything and that right there
just kind of solidified my trustin him and helped me kind of

(17:23):
surrender a little bit more toto, to what he has and what he
wants to do through me and in mylife, or whatever it may be wow
, it's nice dr gary who do youfeel like doubt is a betrayal of
faith, or is it a part of theprocess?

Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think it's a part of the process.
Um, I think in the beginning,and kind of like what I was, you
know, alluded to earlier, liketangible and intangible things,
like you're going to doubt thosethings that you don't see If
you can't feel it in your hands,like a lot of times you're
going to be like it's not realand it's also because you're not

(18:01):
in tune with yourself andthings of that nature.
But I think it's a part of theprocess because in the beginning
, just like you know they can'tbe good without bad, you know
they can't be light without dark, so they can't be doubt without
you know, faith.
So I think at certain pointsyou're going to be there in that

(18:22):
doubting aspect or thatdoubting process and that come
to Jesus moment, you know andman pun intended, because we, we
got some stuff coming with thatbut that come to Jesus moment
is going to be like whoa, it isgoing to make you feel so much
more fulfilled and once you'rethere, then you'll feel like,

(18:46):
okay, I know where I'm at andyeah, so I I think doubt is
definitely a part of the processfor sure.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
So faith requires certainty, but you also have
questions.
So they like coexist yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
What's your opinion on?

Speaker 3 (19:03):
it.
What's my opinion?
I, I, I think about it and I'mlike, if if you're supposed to
have faith, then there should beno doubt.
But I know that I don't thinkthat it's anything wrong to have
doubt.

(19:23):
It's just in the doubt.
You know that in the back ofyour mind.
You know that whatever it isthat you're waiting on, whatever
it is that you have faith in,that's going to work out.
You know it's going to work out.
It may look like it's not acurrent situation in life.
Like it may seem like it's not,and sometimes the parts move

(19:45):
slowly.
They're not going to move fast,they're going to move and
they're going to move slowly.
And eventually you realize it'slike once, once everything
happens, you're like dang, Ikind of feel bad.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
For assuming that it wasn't going to work out like I
kind of knew it was.
But it was that small part ofme that made me feel like it
wasn't and it makes you feel alittle bad about the situation,
just thinking that it wasn'tgoing to work out, even though
it does.
So I think that it kind ofcoexists to like you can have
faith with a little doubt.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Like, going back to what you said earlier about
supposed to have certainty, like, do you think that's something
that comes from just likeculture or society?
When they're like, oh, ifyou're a Christian or if you're
a person of faith, like why areyou down in God?
Why are you not trusting God?

Speaker 3 (20:33):
like you're supposed to have this perfect faith, yeah
, and this is a part of the waywe've been taught or how we've
grown up.
But I'm glad that I have my ownmind and you know, even if to
other people it may seem badthat I have a little doubt, he

(20:54):
doesn't think of me any othertype of way because of my doubt.
I'm still a child of God.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Amen.
So let's kind of move intomental health meets spirituality
, have you?
Ooh, I like this.
I was going to ask a differentone have you ever prayed and
felt nothing?
Oh, yes, of course.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
And what did you do For me?
Like, coming from someone thatis quote unquote on the prayer
team and like is gifted inprayer, um, I got to a point in
my faith where I just reallyfelt like God didn't hear my
prayers about myself, but hewould hear my prayers about
other people.

(21:39):
It kind of got hard for me topray for things that I was
seeking God for and I just hadto have like a realization, like
pretty much a heart to heartconversation with God, and I was
just pretty vulnerable with himand I was like, look, I see you
doing stuff for other peopleand you're not doing anything
for me.
What is going on?

(21:59):
Like, are you mad at me?
Do you not hear me?
Like I just got real rawbecause I was just like I need
to know, like what is going on.
Because it just felt like myprayers were hitting the ceiling
and then coming right back downat me.
But I think after I kind ofjust had that breakthrough
moment and just was supervulnerable with God things, just

(22:20):
it was just kind of like ashift.
Also, when you don't hear God,you're probably not reading your
Bible a lot, because the voiceof God is your word.
So I realized that the momentswhere I wasn't really hearing
God or wasn't really feelinglike anything was happening, it
was the moments when I neverpicked up my Bible and I was

(22:42):
just going through life, goingthrough everyday motions.
But then when I would open upthe Bible, um, and I was just
going through life going througheveryday motions, um but then
when I would open up the Bible,when I would pick it up, read it
, that's when things were likejumping out at me and I was like
, oh, okay, yeah, so you do hearme, so you're the reason that
he was silent with your prayers.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Right Okay, right yeah, yeah, yeah literally Right
right.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
So, like there's been I mean still to this day like I
still have moments where I feellike God doesn't hear my
prayers, but at the end of theday, I know that he hears me, I
know that he's working something, whether it's going to take a
year, whether it's going to takea week, whether it's going to
take a day, whatever it may be,I know that he was received it.
Um, sometimes the answer comesback as something that I wasn't

(23:27):
really looking for, but it wasthe answer that I needed.
Um, and I think that also comesto play when you feel like
you're praying but then Goddoesn't do anything.
But he is doing something.
It's just not looking like theway that you want it to be.
Um, and I think that's what alot of people will say oh, god
doesn't hear me, god doesn't seeme.
Whenever I pray, nothing'shappening.

(23:49):
But then it's like when youreally take a step back and look
at it, he is actually working.
It's just not in the way thatyou thought he was going to do
it or you expected him to do, orwhat you want.
It.
That's a big one, is what youwanted, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, question.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
You.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Well, go ahead and ask your question.
I think I'm going to take adifferent route.
Have you ever prayed and feltnothing?
Yes, however, I think what Irealize is that prayer doesn't
work without presence.
Um, and I could say that athousand times, people can hear
that a thousand times, but stillnot know what that means.

(24:29):
What I mean, presence and andthis is the hard part I had to
realize, like kind of likeyou're alluding to, like you
were praying and nothing washappening, but actually
something was happening.
Right, we're just what we, youjust wasn't present to the
moment.
Yeah, um, when I started andthis is like my journey a couple
years ago, when I started, well, a year ago, when I started to

(24:50):
actually be super present toevery moment as I was praying, I
would, I would see the smalldetails and the opportunities
that would present themselvesthat would open up to that thing
that I prayed for or that areathat I prayed for.
So for me, it was almost likeoh, I get it now.
Like it's not about wantingsomething so much and hoping for

(25:14):
it in that exact instance andreceiving it, because it doesn't
happen that way, because,honestly, if you're praying for
it, it may come in a form of amessage that you weren't
expecting.
It may come in a connectionwith a person that you didn't
know that may connect you withanother person.
So for me, just being presentor praying and having presence

(25:38):
has like literally been one ofthe most supernatural moments
ever in my life.
Like now and this is probablylike weird for anybody here but
I've like certain things Istopped praying for because I've
seen so much things happening.
I'm like, okay, I don't know ifI want that to happen right now.
I don't know if I want this,because I know it's going to

(25:58):
come some form of fact.
Maybe I shouldn't pray for thatbut cause everything else.
Everything else that I've beenlike literally praying for and
I've been present to, it's beenput in my proximity.
What's the story of Ruth andBoaz, where essentially God put
them in the same proximity whenthe prayer was made and they,

(26:22):
you know they were in their sameproximity, so they had to meet
at that point.
So I think, even in terms ofwhat you're wishing for, in
terms of, like you know, maybeit's something financial, maybe
it's finishing your career,maybe it's, you know, completing
a task and you're praying for,or somebody in good health, you
have to be super present to themoment, because something will

(26:44):
present itself and if you're notpresent, you're going to to
miss it what are some ways thatyou stay present for those?
moments, man, in the morning I Ido some movement, meditation,
and essentially and essentially,that's like praise time for me,
like I'm literally like youguys think it's so funny, but
it's real, it's real, though.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
I did that this morning it has worked.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
it has worked in terms of regulating my emotions
for the day, so where I cancompletely be clear what's in
front of me, like for let megive you a prime example like if
, if I'm in the morning, if I'mjust like if I get up I grew up
to go through my day without itI can miss a extra 10 seconds
with having 10 seconds of havinga conversation with someone

(27:25):
that may open up a door forsomething else.
But if I slow down in themorning, in the morning I start
extremely slow.
I slow down, I open everythingup and then I can go throughout
the day without rushing acertain moment, and then I'll
have this weird feeling and say,hey, extra 15 seconds here, and
then something happens where Iget an opportunity to serve and

(27:46):
then it opens up a bigger door,like it.
Just those different type ofthings have happened and I'm an
experimentalist, like I'm anactual researcher, so I've taken
data.
So, as I'm doing these things,I'm like, okay, maybe if this
data set is showing that, huh,the more I do this and the more
I'm present, more opportunitiesare happening.
The less I do this and the moreI'm present, more opportunities
are happening.
The less I do this, the lessI'm present, nothing is

(28:09):
happening and I'm morefrustrated.
But yeah, so yeah, I think forme in the morning, preparing
myself by just doing some formof movements meditation and that
is like when I say movementmeditation, I'm like literally
focusing on my emotions, myregulations, how I can increase
the joy I think I said this inthe last podcast like being able

(28:31):
to kind of like build thecapacity of my joy in the
morning really helps, becausethat energy is like you said in
one of the podcasts, isaffections, like people feel it
and they're like Whoa, what is,what is this?
And I'm like I don't know.
But you can have some.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Share that energy with us.
I got it and I'm like I don'tknow but you can share that
energy with us.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I got it, um, and I don't.
I don't get burnt out, but Ithink it's important for me in
the morning.
Do you have anything that youdo, I think?

Speaker 2 (28:56):
for me.
Um, on a good day, I startedoff with my Bible just reading a
verse, um, either before thegym or after the gym.
I've also realized thatwhenever I do actually spend
some time reading my Bible inthe morning time, that's going
to be a day where people aregoing to need me a whole lot
more.
And I, I, I'm, I'm like you,I'm experimentalist.

(29:18):
Um, so I've done the experimentof okay, let's start the day
with reading the Bible, and thenthat day, something happens
where I have to, like, givesomebody an encouraging word, or
I have to be there for somebody, whether it's actually
physically being there for themor being there for them in
prayer or whatever it might be.
Um, and then there's a daywhere I'm like, okay, you know

(29:38):
what?
We're not going to read theBible today.
We might just read like a verseor something.
We won't spend like our hourlong session with God, um, and
then that's just a day wherenothing really happens.
It's kind of weird, but I knowthat, um, when I do spend that
time in the morning where I'mreading the Bible and I'm
praying and I'm worshiping, um,that God is filling me up so

(29:59):
that I can extend my faith tosomebody else.
Like in in the book of James, ittalks about how, um, faith
without works is dead, um, andbecause that is our faith is not
just our own faith, it'sactually for the people and for
God, like we were called toactually be hands and feet of
Jesus so that we can go outthere and serve other people,

(30:19):
whether it's taking somebody outto lunch, or whether it's
praying for somebody, whetherit's just picking something up
or, you know, opening the doorfor somebody, because people
will see your faith through theworks that you do.
And you know, just reading thebook of James, this these couple
of weeks has just been kind ofeye-opening for me in a sense,
and kind of just revitalizing myfaith, especially as I get

(30:43):
ready to go to Serbia, becauseit's much needed, because I'm
going to be out there servingand being the hands and feet of
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
I do have a question I want to pose, and this is
going to be actually a leftquestion.
So, in terms of your vision foryour life, like, do you trust
your vision or are you trying tocontrol the outcome?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I think I used to try to control the outcome because
I was someone that was like atype A planner.
So I played, planned everythingfrom the get go and like I just
think the last two years, myall my plans that I've made have
kind of just unraveled and nowI'm to the point where I'm like
you know what, we're just notgonna plan anything.

(31:27):
Like I have no vision for mylife anymore because whatever I
plan, whatever I try to do, it'snot the vision that God has for
me.
Um, like coming to to UA forschool, I started out athletic
training and then I went to mysecond clinical rotation and I
had this sick feeling in mystomach like this was not where

(31:49):
I was supposed to be.
And I didn't know what it wasbecause I was kind of just like
fresh, to like experiencing areal relationship with God.
Um, so I didn't know that, oh,maybe this might be God in the
background saying this is notwhere I want you to go, so let's
pivot.
But I was just like you knowwhat, I don't feel like I should
be here anymore.
So then that's when I changedmy major to exercise science on

(32:11):
the pre-PT track, so I wasplanning on going to physical
therapy school after I graduated, but then, as you can see, that
didn't happen either.
And now we're here for amaster's in clinical psychology,
which I never thought I wouldever go into mental health
because I used to not believe intherapy, like I didn't believe

(32:32):
go into a counselor, I didn'tbelieve, like you know, people
who had anxiety or depressionwere actually having anxiety and
depression.
So I don't necessarily trustthe vision that I have for my
life.
I trust the vision that God hasfor my life and I think the
last two years has kind of shownme what that vision is, um, and

(32:54):
and I'm still like learningwhat that vision is and what
that path is that he wants me tobe on Um.
But I'm no longer controllingthe outcome anymore, because
whatever I try to control never,never goes as planned.
And so at this point we're nolonger a type A planner, we are
a all right God.
What's the?
What are we doing today?
Where?
Where am I going?
Who are you bringing me to talkto?

(33:15):
Who?
Who am I supposed to go?
And you know, share the gospelwith?
Or who am I supposed to love?
Who am I even supposed to cutout of my life so that I can
pursue the calling and the paththat he wants me to take.
And you know, that has justbeen an eye-opening experience
in itself.
Is, you know, having peopleremoved from my life that I

(33:37):
thought I was going to haveforever, like literally half of
my bridal party that I was goingto have in my wedding.
I don't even talk to thosepeople anymore.
Oh, that's insane, and that isjust so wild, because you know I
plan for these people to be mypeople for years after, and now
it's just completely different.
So yeah, don't trust theoutcome, don't trust the vision.

(33:58):
It's whatever God has for me,whatever he has planned for me.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah.
So the reason I ask thatquestion is and the more
detailed question you answer islike basically, is your faith,
you know, an attempt to controlthe future?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Because you're uncertain right.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
For me I was similar in that point where I was always
a visionary.
I'm still a visionary to thisday in terms of what I can see.
I think I've been very I'vebeen blessed to kind of see
visions, see other people'svisions, nurture those visions,
and what I mean by visions islike what they can see for

(34:38):
themselves.
And I think the important pieceyou kind of hit on is like is
not yours, like you have to givethat up.
And I think what I've realizedis coming to this process of
your.
You know you start with thatdream, then you have that vision
, but once you truly likesurrender, you have direction

(34:59):
and you, everything you justdescribed in that the back end
part was a direction, that pathright, kind of like.
Uh, I don't know if you guysknow much about physics force,
time, magnitude or whatever.
All right, cool, we're notgetting that.
But but for me, once you havethat path and you surrender, you
have direction yeah anddirection looks like.
For me, it looks like, uh, youpresent, but also you're being

(35:24):
led by something greater thanyour own personal you know,
needs and thoughts and things ofthat nature.
It's more of like, okay, thisfeels right.
Right, so I'm going to makethis decision and I think for
any man, and especially men andwomen as well, but men
specifically our decision-makingskills should definitely come

(35:45):
for something much bigger thanour, much greater than ourselves
.
And I think for me, that'swhere I'm at now, and I'm not
saying I'm the bestdecision-maker in the world, but
I know my decisions now are nolonger backed by what Justin
wants to see happen in thefuture, no longer backed by
financial goals, no longerbacked by, you know, taking over
the world, which would be sogreat because it's possible, for

(36:05):
sure it's going to happen oneday, know, taking over the world
, which would be so great uhbecause it's possible, for sure
it's gonna happen one dayum, it's, it's, they're backed
by something much greater thanme and and that's why I kind of
alluded to earlier is like I getthese moments of like okay,
here's a question.
And this question just posesitself how do you give back what
you're blessed with?
Yeah, and that's where I'm atnow and I'm like oh cool, okay,
so this is my, this is the task,the assignment.

(36:27):
Now, now I have to figure outthis assignment, because I've
been given this assignment andnow this is what I'm going to
execute.
It's no more, it's no longerlike oh cool, how do I make two
million dollars?
Okay, how I make 20 million,how do I make 200 million
dollars?
So, yeah, I think for me, Ithink is is you know, what I'm
doing is no longer attempt tocontrol my future or control the

(36:48):
outcome of where I want to be,it's more just following the
direction that I'm being ledinto.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
So, yeah, so you don't have a plan, but you know
you have a purpose.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
I do yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Okay, just wanted to clarify.
Yeah, and so you've made peacewith not?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
have you made peace with not having clarity, like
not really knowing specifically,I think yeah, I had to have a
funeral for my, my plans and forthe life that I imagined that I
was gonna have.
And I think once I had thatfuneral for that, that plan and
that life, things kind of juststarted opening up.

(37:31):
And that's when I realized like, oh, there is actually someone
that is much higher than I, thatknows a lot more.
Like I always say, whenever Istart doubting God, I always say
why would I not trust theauthor of my story?
Why am I not trusting theperson that has the pencil that
is literally writing everysingle detail?

(37:53):
Like I don't have the writingabilities to write my own story,
so why am I trusting myself asopposed to trusting God with
whatever he has for me?
And I think so.
Whenever I start doubting, Ijust continue to remind myself
why are you not trusting theauthor of your story?
Because you know I'm not God,nor do I want to be God, because

(38:15):
I don't want to heareverybody's problems.
Hello, so it's just like whyare you doubting so much and not
trusting the person that iswriting your journey, your story
, your path?

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Yeah, I know you got some faith, because them eight
years baby, oh that's a longtime it's a long time that's a
whole life.
That's like almost an entiredecade yes, literally literally
yeah it's crazy work.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
I know that faith is strong but, honestly, I would do
it all over again though yousaid that I would do it all over
again because I think, whereI'm at now in my life, I'm much
happier.
I have a sense of purpose, um,I know, like, granted, I don't
know what the actual plan is, um, in a sense, things are slowly

(39:05):
being revealed, but but I don'thave the, the end goal, the end
picture, and I, honestly, I findit kind of fun knowing, not
knowing, because it makes mestress less, um, it makes me
worry about it less.
I mean, you know you wouldthink you would stress a little
bit more, but honestly, like ithas, it has given me a sense of
comfort, um, not having to haveeverything all planned out, not

(39:28):
having to know what my next stepis.
I have less gray hair becauseof all that.
So I I think that is why Iwould do it all over again.
Like, granted, the heartbreakwas horrible, um, the everything
that I had planned for myselfin the trash, like nothing,
nothing going back.

(39:48):
But honestly, I think it was.
It was much needed and it hastruly brought me so much joy and
peace, knowing that, man, Icould have had this so much,
like years, years, years ago,but I think it took all that
happening so that I can get tothis place where I'm at, and now
I have the ability to be avessel for others and tell them

(40:11):
my story so that I can help themnot go through eight years of
idleness and complacency and Ican help them in their journey
so that they can get to wherethey are, so that they can have
a stronger faith, so that theycan know that they have a

(40:32):
purpose and a calling that Godhas for them.
So, you know, hate, it had to beme, but I'm glad that, um, I
had that opportunity to kind ofjust grow in that, so that I can
be a vessel for others, so that, like my college girls, I can
share my story with them, sothat I can protect them and
protect their hearts, um, fromgoing through the pain that I
went through.
But, granted, you know,sometimes you might have some of

(40:52):
them that are just going to dowhatever they want to do, and
you know some people just haveto fall.
But at the end of the day, I'mgoing to be there to support you
and I'm going to be there tospeak life over you.
But you know just, you just gotto learn like I learned, that's
my number one irritation withlike heartbreak or whatever is
the time.
Right Like.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
I could have been doing something else with my
time.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
I know and I spent it with you Right, literally, and
it got me nowhere.
Literally, but it's okay, noyeah, I do the same thing.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
I work at a school so I try to.
Hey, you might not want to dothat Right.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Y'all need to separate.
Y'all spending too muchLiterally.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
I try I try.
All we can do is try, becauseat the end of the day, honestly,
they're adults, so they'regoing to have to end up learning
their own lessons.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Another thing that I've been repeating to myself
especially lately is yourdecisions do not affect my life.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
There, you go.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
And that has bought me so much peace.
Whenever somebody doessomething crazy says something
crazy, or they're like I'm gonnado, I'm gonna go jump off the
bridge, I said you know what, ifthat's what you want to do, do
it, but at the end of the day,your decision does not affect my
life I know, so have fun, wowyeah that's good.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
I guess you just yo, you have a plan.
Are you a planner for your ownlife?

Speaker 1 (42:12):
oh, I used to be.
I used to be, but now it's likeyou know, I I want to kind of
repeat what she said, but it'snow.
I'm more focused on justlistening.
What do you have for me?

Speaker 3 (42:24):
um yeah, you said you running through all the open
doors.
Oh yeah, I yeah for sure.
What's what y'all sayingagainst this year?

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I think for me, though, like the biggest thing
and I hear a lot of men kind oftalk about like being a man,
like, oh, people, women talkabout men being men of God Like,
oh, is he a man of God?
Is he a man of God?
And I really reflected on thatphrase, and I think for me I
can't say that, I can say I'm achild of God.

(42:50):
Now, the reason I say that isbecause, you know, I think in
his eyes obviously it says it'sin the Bible like we're all
children.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
So I think, for me, in order for me to truly be
surrendered and be led, you know, by his direction, is me being
a child.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
And for me, I think the biggest thing, the biggest
part of letting go of controland I said this a lot last year
I was like man, I'm finallyletting go of control was me
actually literally like puttingdown whatever Justin wanted to
do and like reaching my hand outand just following, just like,

(43:29):
okay, all right, where we going?
Oh, this is what it is.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Oh cool, we're going here what are some practical
ways that?
You kind of surrendered thatcontrol like how did.
How did you work through that?

Speaker 1 (43:40):
I think.
Ultimately, I say service isbig reason being because a lot
of times we're so caught up inself.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
And.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
I think deep down at our core we're meant to serve in
some form Right.
So for me I had to reallyembrace service.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
So what I mean by that and I don't want to go back
over our last pot, but Iliterally would just practice
like a muscle serving, like,okay, cool, how does this look?
Well, being in a moment,allowing someone to you know to
be present, be present with themand, if I can see a serving
moment, provide that service,don't want anything in return,

(44:21):
don't ask for anything in return.
And I started to see like, as Iwas more working and doing
those things, I would feel like,okay, cool, like this feels
good.
Why does this feel?
Why have I not been doing thisfor the longest?
It's because I've been socaught up in self, so caught up
in trying to be here, there.
Man, career-wise, you've reachedall those goals and you know, I

(44:44):
think for a lot of people, Iwas blessed not to, kind of like
, be addicted to social mediabecause I got off of it in the
right time, right.
But I see so many other peoplelike they're like measuring
themselves and their successbased off what they see other
people do, especially peoplethey went to school with.
Yeah, for me I'm going to behonest, like I don't keep up
with those individuals.

(45:05):
Like you know, if someone calls, then cool, we can talk, but
I'm not tracking your socialmedia to see what you've been
doing and what you've been up to, and it's not because I don't
want to know, it's just becauseI feel like I'm not present.
If I do that, I feel like onceI do that, I take myself out of
the present moment and yeah, soI think practically I typically

(45:26):
just been working on justserving, like really in the
service moment.
What about you?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
I think for me, like it kind of comes down to laying
down social media.
Like you mentioned, I spentabout two years off of social
media and I realized that wasthe healthiest I've ever been.
Like thought-wise,spiritual-wise, emotional wise
um laying down social media,because social media is just, it

(45:51):
is an endless door funnel.
Whatever of comparison oh manand I knew like after the
breakup it was like weddingcentral everybody was getting
married everybody.
Like it got to the point whereone day I woke up and I was like
, okay, the universe is justmocking me at this point and

(46:11):
like that was like fresh afterand it just I just had to get
off of it.
Yeah, I had to go be by myself.
I started reading books more.
I started watching um more likemotivational, like speaking, so
that I could grow my faith.
So I think for me it was justkind of distancing myself from

(46:35):
the world, like that verse thatsays you're not conformed to the
ways of the world but betransformed by the renewing of
your mind.
So that was just kind of mything was just separating myself
from the world so that I canactually hear God, connect to
God, so that I can surrender andlay down that control.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yeah, I think you're like, literally in faith, fear
and the fog in between, becausethe fog makes you be a little
bit more dependent yeah, yeah,say yeah and I think you're like
you.
You're in all places, you'reomnipresent.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
You know that is such a big thing to say.
Like I am Scientifically.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Right, Scientifically , you just said something there.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Go ahead yeah you did , but it's okay, I like it.
But for me, like being able todepend on God is just the
biggest thing I could have everachieved, because I'm such an
independent person.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
I've had so many people tell me that I'm too
independent.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
It's so, I know right , but it's honestly not good to
be that independent, though thatI've learned, yeah, wait did I
say all my?

Speaker 1 (47:45):
was it all my independent?

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Wait, did I say all my independent.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's Boosie.
Oh, it's Boosie.
That's crazy work.
Okay, okay, I'm going to churchwhen I'm there, that's a flesh,
oh man, but yeah, I've learnedthat

Speaker 2 (48:03):
it is not good to be like a hardcore independent
person, because God calls us tobe dependent on him.
So if I'm independent, I don'tneed God.
And so I had to learn that, andit was.
It was a hard lesson to learn,because I'm someone that does

(48:24):
not like to depend on anybody,whether it's a man, whether it's
my family, whether it's GodBecause I'm like, let me just do
this by myself.
I know what's right for my lifeand I know what I want to do
and I know where I want to go.
But it took me having to get tothe point where I had to depend
, like I had to depend on God,to the point where I was like I

(48:52):
have nothing else, I havenothing else to look to, I have
nothing else to to lean on, andI just I just had to turn to God
because either if, if I didn't,I was probably going to be at
the bottom of the black warriorriver, yeah, and I don't like
river water and I don't likeriver water.
So it got.
I had to learn like beingindependent.

(49:12):
Yes, it's good, but it comeswith an extent.
You have to learn how to bedependent on God before you can
learn how to be independent,because you will take that and
you'll.
It'll go to an extreme, towhere you're like, all right,
god, I don't need you anymore.
And at that point you're it'llgo to an extreme, to where
you're like, all right, god, Idon't need you anymore, and at
that point you're just lost yeahdr gray what's the question?

Speaker 3 (49:39):
well, I feel like you're also in that same space
of like only present fit.
Yeah, but I don't want to usethat word anymore I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I for me, there's no more fog in between.
Okay, so the fog in between forme and this is probably the
only thing I really still, Ithink I still struggle with is,
you know, the people that are,let me say, faking their faith.
I really struggle with otherpeople Like myself I feel like

(50:09):
I'm okay with in terms of I know, you know what I'm led by, I
know what to trust in.
But when I'm around people thatare saying they're doing the
things or they're forcingsomething and it doesn't feel
genuine, that's what I strugglewith.
Like, how do I operate withthese individuals If I feel like
I mean, maybe their intentionsare good, but they don't believe

(50:32):
what they're saying.
They're only saying what itsounds, what sounds good and
what they think I want to hear?

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Give us an example.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Um, example Oof.
I mean, I got a couple ofdifferent examples.
I think one that pops out nowis just like examples.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
I think one that pops out now is just, like you know,
um someone that I don't want toname any names, but yeah, no, I
think, I think, no, I think Ithink it's big in terms for me.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Like you know the practice, what you preach,
especially when it comes to likeyou know your faith, like if
you don't do that, I'm not goingto gravitate much to you.
Yeah, but also I understand,like I can't.
I do know that I can't lean onmy own understanding.
I can't say, okay, well, thisperson's bad because they're
doing xyz.
Maybe they're trying to figureit out, but their personal life

(51:21):
is.
You know, something's happeningin their personal life that's
hindering from them fromactually really believing what
they're saying.
This could be somethingemotionally, something
trauma-based that they'redealing with, I guess.
For a brief example, there'ssomeone I've been kind of like
back and forth with and one ofmy right now.
They're a close friend and theydo a lot of preaching, right,

(51:47):
but a lot of the preaching isemotional and I can tell it's
emotional.
But I also and I speak onservice a lot when you serve
someone, you learn theirstrength and you learn their
weaknesses.
That's why it's important whenyou have friends you do take
that position of service so youcan really know what they value,
because that form of service isgoing to tell you everything

(52:09):
you know about that person.
Yeah, so for me, I took, I tookthe position of serving okay,
cool, what do you need me to do?
How can I help?
I don't need anything in return.
How can I help?
And I started to see like thereare a lot of selfish desires
behind.
You know things, and there area lot of emotional led decisions
.
And for me it's like wait, butyou're preaching this way,
you're teaching this way, butnone of your actions line up

(52:32):
with this and that fog.
There's like how do I, how do Iexpress these?
You know, how do I talk to thisperson about this?
How do I address this?
Or is it even my position toaddress that?
And I think we alluded to thisin the last podcast like a lot
of sometimes serving in themoment is not going to be the
person that you enjoy serving to.

(52:53):
Sometimes it's a lesson for you, but also it may be a lesson
for them, not in the moment, butdown the road, when they look
back on that service that youprovided for them.
Yeah, for me that's been bigand I think you know I pray
about it, like, how do I like?
You know, thank you for theopportunity.
My prayer is always, you know,surrounded by gratitude.

(53:15):
You know, thank you for mebeing able to have this
conversation with him.
Me being able to have thisconversation with him and I
think, yeah, I think the fog inbetween for me has always been
that other people that expresstheir faith and express teaching
, express man, can quote theBible word for word.
I can't do that and I said Idon't want to do that.
It's like I can't do that, butyou see, people do it and you're

(53:37):
like whoa, okay, but theiractions say something completely
different.
How about you?
Oh, okay, but they actually saysomething completely different.
How about?

Speaker 2 (53:43):
you.
What is your fog in betweenright now?
What is my fog in between rightnow?
I think my fog in between isjust really learning how to lean
in and trust.
So when it comes down to, Imean yeah.
So when it comes down to, Imean yeah.
So a lot of what I have aproblem with trusting is my

(54:09):
future, like granted, yeah.
Right now I'm in a place whereI'm not necessarily laying out
plans for my life, like I don'thave a plan to say, you know
next month I'm going to move toX, y and Z place.
Yeah, or you know I'm going tobe in this job for X, y and Z

(54:30):
months or whatever.
But it's just like what is thelong term at the end of the day,
and trusting that God is goingto really carry me to the long
term of the desires that I havefor my heart or the, the wants
that I want for myself or justany of that sorts like.

(54:51):
I trust God, but sometimesthere's still a little bit of
that doubt that that creeps inyeah and I'm just like do I need
to step in and do some workhere?

Speaker 1 (55:03):
That's a good question.
Like at what point?
Like are you like?
Are you, you know, when peoplesay, oh, I'm going to manifest
this?
Stuff like, at what point doyou put in the work?
You know?

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Yeah, I think you know Faith without work.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Exactly it is.
It is so for me, like I thinkyou know, you, you initiate, you
take that first step andwherever that first step is like
for for me, specifically withpursuing another master's, like
I didn't really know if this isreally what God wanted me to do.

(55:37):
But I was just like you knowwhat, god, if this is something
that you want me to do, you'regoing to provide, you're going
to open up that door.
And so I was just like I don'tknow how I'm going to pay for
this Masters, because it's atanother institution, or I don't
know if I actually will getaccepted or whatever the case
may be.
And then, you know, I was justlike Yolo, I'm going to put out

(55:58):
an application, we'll see.
See if it happens, it happens.
If it doesn't, it doesn't,we'll just pivot to whatever is
next that God has for me.
Same thing with this missiontrip.
Like you had to apply for itand I got the email about it and
I said, all right, god, if thisis where you want me to go, if
this is something that you wantme to do, you're gonna open up
that door.
And so I submitted theapplication, door opened and I

(56:21):
was still like I was stilldoubting.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
I was like wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Is this really what you want me to do?
Um, and so, like it was like wewere on our second month of
fundraising and stuff I hadn'teven started fundraising yeah
like.
This was back in March.
I hadn't even startedfundraising and we had to have
all the money in all in um April.
And so I was like I don't, Idon't really know if God really

(56:48):
wants me to go on this missiontrip.
And so it.
I had somebody tell me like,just trust, just trust God.
Like if this is something thathe wants you to do, he's gonna
carry it out.
So I was like, all right, well,god, if this is what you want
me to do, open up the door,provide the funds.
And literally as soon as Iposted my fundraising for the

(57:08):
mission trip on on social media,I that by the end of that day I
had $400.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
And then by the second week I had $1,500, which
was how much it costs.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
And I was completely done with fundraising.
I was the first one out of thewhole entire group to be
completed with fundraising and Iwas like, oh God, so this is
really what you want me to doright.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
You're going.
Obedience without a certain way.
Got a couple people there.
You got to meet Right.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, literally man.
So I think my fog in between isjust learning how to completely
just trust God, even though,you know, sometimes it might be
a little bit hard or it might besomething where I'm just like I
don't really know what I'mdoing.
But we're just going to stepinto it.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
So the fog is like a test, but it's also like a pause
, but it's also protection.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yes, yeah, I think, wow, you just put it in a good
way.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Sorry, three minutes left, sorry.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
But we'll stop when we get to it.
But I think what you just saidis you were saying like the test
is in the fog, right?

Speaker 3 (58:17):
The fog is a test, it's a pause and it's also
protection.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Yeah, so there's always a fog.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Right.
Yeah, so there's always a fog,right, yeah, and that's so, and
then it goes into faith becauseyou know when you're driving in
the fog you're like oh, that'sgood, that's really good, that's
good, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Like when you're driving yeah, so Right, yeah,
man, like I think the fog.
That analogy is huge becauseit's like there's always a fog,
so you're going to always havesome form of doubt.
So you have to be, you're goingto have to lean on something.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Yeah, your faith doesn't have to be strong, it
doesn't have to be strong.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
It's never going to be like you're never going to
hold.
So I think there'll be a hintof fear here and there, but that
fog is what's made, what makesyou stronger, though.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Yeah, it's almost like a workout.
Yeah, it's literally almostlike a workout, it's like a
problem Give you a problem, bro,you, you, you bored.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
I here you go Right, here's a fog, Wait.
But everything was clear beforeI getting comfortable.
I think that is where I've been, and just being able to have
those fog moments has helped megrow into like every single day
and evolve into a better personspiritually, mentally,
physically and emotionally.

(59:32):
So I think, outside of usingthat analogy just for you know
your spiritual aspect, I thinkalso use it for everything else
in life.
There are things that are goingto be testing you, that you're
going to be uncertain about,that are actually there to make
you much stronger right so yeahbut what happens to those people
that can't get out of the fog?

Speaker 2 (59:54):
yeah, what happens to the people that can't get out
of the fog?
Like you know, you have some.
You have some people like whenyou think about driving through
fog, you have people that drivereally slow.
You have people that are likeyou know what, we're just going
to keep on driving with thefaith, because we don't know
what's on the outside, we don'tknow how long it's going to be.
But then you might have somepeople that get in having those

(01:00:15):
accidents in the fog um or likenot not getting through, making
it through the test I thinkyou're alluding to this, but
I'll answer your question.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Community, yeah, so connection, not relying on
yourself?
Yeah to, to make it through byyourself.
The independency you're talkingabout, like, get rid of that.
So having a community of peoplethat can assist you, like when
you're on the side of that road,who you call it?

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
right right it always goes back to serve for y'all.
I know it always goes to servewith y'all serving is huge when
I've.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
when I discovered that, oh yeah, my life changed.
It was like I know serve.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
I hate to see y'all Come baby.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
When you put two people in a room together to
constantly serve, oh look.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Man, I'm telling you it's been like the most
refreshing thing I'veexperienced in my life, because
it's just like you you let go ofyou.
Yeah, but yes, to answer yourquestion.
It all goes back, it all boilsdown to serving.
So yeah, I think.
And then go back to yourquestion is that community

(01:01:35):
connection um having those,those anchors and I think you
called them something else lasttime those people you go back to
um wasn't an anchor, it wassomething else, uh, but you just
have those points of the rock?
I think the rocks yeah thoseindividuals that that that you
know, yeah, you can call on inthose moments and sometimes I'm

(01:01:56):
gonna tell you this this is a.
This is one of the realestthing I realized.
Sometimes those people probablyhave a small, they probably had
a short stint of timeframe inyour life, sometimes you
probably only knew it for amonth.
But that community that youbuild with them, based off of
their current moment and whereyou are, that bond and that

(01:02:16):
reliability that you can, youcan use for them.
I think it's huge because I'vebeen knowing a lot of people for
a short amount of time.
I think it's huge because I'vebeen knowing a lot of people for
a short amount of time.
I'm like man.
I can depend on that personright more than I can depend on
somebody.
I've been, oh my gosh, yes, andI'm like whoa, and it's sad but
it's so true it is true becauseI think you meet those
individuals in certain momentsof your life and then,

(01:02:37):
especially if you're you'reserving, you start to meet more
people that they recognize that,wow, there's something there, I
want to support this, how can Isupport this?
And they don't even knowthey're supporting.
So I think it is important tokind of recognize and be present
to those moments so you canbuild that type of community and
those individuals in your life.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
What you got, we got.
One more question before weclose out your life.
That's good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
What you got, we got one more question before we
close out.
Okay, if you could go back andtell your younger self one thing
about faith, what would it be?
That's huge.
You want to take that one,there's so many.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Oh, don't call me a missionary.
I don't even know if I'm amissionary, yet this is my first
mission, trip honey.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
I don't even know if I'm really going to like it.
She's like I'm not going backyou don't have no choice.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
She's like she's not going back.
Yo, we don't know yet.
We don't know yet I might getkidnapped, you might get
kidnapped.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
No, no, you won't.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Look, good things can happen on this trip now.
Yeah, good things morning at thegym, I was like, yeah, I'm
about to be gone for a couple ofweeks and he was like, where
are you going?
I was like, oh, I'm going on amission trip and he was like,
where are you going?
I was like I'm going to Serbia.
He's like don't get kidnapped.
Yeah, well, that's what would Itell my younger self about

(01:03:58):
faith.
Oh my gosh, I would tell her somuch.
But if I had to pick one thing,it's okay to bring your emotions
to God, whether they'renegative emotions, whether
they're positive emotions.
I always thought that I had tobe like this you know, prim,

(01:04:18):
proper, always positive personto come to God.
Like no, god really wants yourtears.
He wants, he wants to know whenyou're mad at him.
Like.
I've had so many periods whereI've literally just sat on my
floor and just screamed at Godbecause I told him like I'm so
angry with you, why'd you letthis happen?

(01:04:38):
You pissed me off.
You felt like you've abandonedme.
Why'd you let this happen?
You pissed me off.
You felt like you've abandonedme.
So it's just like bringing.
It's okay to bring those rawemotions.
It's okay to not have positivedays every single day in your
faith.
Like just because you're aperson of faith doesn't mean

(01:04:59):
like you're going to be happyand everything's going to be all
peachy peachy every single dayand it's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
And that goes back to you saying not being
independent, still beingdependent on him.
Yes, he wants you, he wants youto bring those things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
He wants all of it.
He, he doesn't want you to justhold it all in.
He wants to know, like, what isgoing on in your heart, in your
mind, what are your thoughts.
Even though he knows yourthoughts, right, um, he still he
wants to know it all, like heeven wants to know how your
pizza was.
The other day, like when I hadsomebody tell me that they
literally spend the whole entireday of just walking through

(01:05:32):
talking to God, like they'rewalking to in the grocery store
and they're just havingfull-fledged conversations with
God about the payers that's inthe grocery section I was like
what God really wants to knowall that, and so I think that
was just really eye-opening tome, knowing that I can actually
I have somebody that I can trustand confide in.

(01:05:53):
That is not an actual likefriend or somebody here on this
earth.
There's somebody that hashigher power and more control
than that, than I have, thatwants me to bring all those
those emotions and doesn't wantme to just hold it in.
So I think that's what I wouldtell my younger self to to bring
the raw emotions and it's okayyeah, I think for me, and I'll

(01:06:14):
make it short is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
I would tell myself it's okay to fall yeah it's okay
to make a mistake, it's okay tobe wrong.
I think you know the youngerversion of me wanted to be right
, wanted to, you know, walkright, wanted to make sure I
didn't fall or trip.
And I think faith is about justdoing those things without the

(01:06:36):
fear of falling or making amistake or being wrong, just do
it.
It and everything will correctitself.
So I would just tell Justinthat, like hey bro, look you got
this.
It's okay to fall.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
I like that.
That's really good, because yougot somebody that's going to
catch you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, see Faith.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yeah, all right Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
So I think that's it, that's it, that's our last
question.
Yeah, all right, cool, so Ithink that's it.
That's it.
That's our last question, guys.
You know, thank you guys fortuning in to the Good, the Bad,
the Great podcast, dr JustinGray and our second two-peat.
This is well, I guess it's arepeat, in case no such thing as
a two-peat that's off.
Oh my gosh, chrissy, give usyour social medias, your handles

(01:07:22):
, if you don't mind my socialmedia Instagram is Chrissyap
C-H-R-I-S-S-S-Yap.
Yeah, Guys, follow us at thegood, no at Good Bad Gray on
TikTok Good, bad Gray.
I don't know if we're going todo Instagram much, but at good

(01:07:42):
bad gray on TikTok and YouTube.
Also, if you're listening on,you know TikTok and YouTube
definitely.
I think we're on all platformsnow iTunes, was it iPodcast?

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Apple Podcast.
Apple Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Spotify, spotify, my bad y'all.
It's getting that time.
What time is it?

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
It's eating time Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Well, yeah, anywhere you find your podcast, we're
definitely on there.
So download us, share ourpodcast as well.
We're trying to, you know,definitely grow, get some
awareness out there.
More episodes coming soon.
Hey, renee Residents, you wantto say anything To our people?

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Oh, send in questions .
Yes, please send in somequestions.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
We definitely want to hear From you guys and your
take Suggestions or whatever.
I think you know we're here forgrowth and that's one of our
Main priorities Is to keepgrowing.
So keep growing out there.
Good, bad gray.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Good, bad gray.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
We're out.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Good, bad gray.