The Most Immersive Theme Lands EVER

From the floating mountains of Pandora to the wizarding streets of Diagon Alley, we’re counting down the most immersive theme‑park lands ever built!Join us live as we debate, and celebrate the ultimate showcases of storytelling at Disney and Universal parks.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Tonight we're stepping into lands that make theme parks
truly magical. From the floating peaks of
Pandora to the cobbled streets of Diagon Alley, we're debating
which themed lands transports furthest from reality.
So stick around, show you favours in the chat, and let's
find out which land reigns supreme when it comes to pure
emotion. Hello everybody, happy

(00:51):
Wednesday. I'm really look forward to
tonight's show because I know that five weeks today we're all
going to be in flying out for Disney World and I'm really
excited and I don't know how many shows we're going to do.
You've only got 4 weeks, John. Four weeks.
Today will be my first park day.Oh wow.
OK, which is quite a bizarre, quite a bizarre thing to think

(01:12):
of since I've I've got the empties planning list known to
mankind so. Have you done any planning?
You know where you're going, youknow where you're flying.
I've got a flight, I've got a flight, a car, a villa and that
and then we've got Disney tickets and that's about it.
That's that's did. You buy.

(01:34):
Universal tickets, Yeah, you need to wait and find out.
I'm going to keep everyone hanging on that I'm waiting
today because it fits in perfectly with the the mid month
show which which will shamelessly plug later in the
show. We'll come to later, so yeah,
join us today. So you already heard from John.
We've also got Becca as well. How are you?

(01:56):
I'm all right. How's your packing list?
Back into Stan. I just need to make sure we
actually have everything on it. OK, so is it too early in five
weeks out? John, have you started packing?
Let us know in the chat. Is it too early to think about
packing or start packing? Never mind that is it too early
for me out of office. Nice to put it on early so you
don't get the emails for the next few.

(02:17):
Weeks we've. Also got Simon joined to say hi.
Simon, how are you? I'm good.
How are you guys doing? Yeah, very, very well.
Do you? Do you have a trip booked?
Are you ready to begin? It's not until the end of
August, so it's still a little way off yet, but you know what

(02:38):
we'll like? We'll we'll be by the day
before. Just go.
Oh, throw it all in. You will have been carefully
planned out knowing what we need, and then we'll just bring
you all together at the last. Minute I love how much we we
planned because I remember last year we we planned when the city
had an evening set aside to do it and then it was just got to
the end of it. It was like, OK, I think we've

(02:59):
got everything. And then the day before we just
chucked everything in a suitcaseand just hope we've got it.
Well, I leave the delicate part of balancing between the
suitcases to Robin. I will just make sure I've I've
provided the clothing and the stuff and then magic fairy comes
along, does all the. Does all the arrangement into

(03:20):
the suitcases, you delegate? Yeah.
I'll tell you what, maybe, maybeRobin, if she fancied a day out
to our house, she could do the same thing.
Because I don't have anybody to do that.
Because we take on the role thatif you want to go, then you make
sure that's in the case. Yeah.
And it's. Yeah, if I yeah, that could be,

(03:41):
that could be a show in packing etiquette.
Packing at the last minute. I've just got like.
Claire, 5 minutes. Past your leaves.
You see, I think Claire and Robin, I know they're not on
tonight and they can't defend this, but I'm wondering whether
they already always have a smallbag packed ready to go to
Orlando all. Right, Robin's in the Robin's in
the chat. Pleasure might be the listener.

(04:05):
Liverpudlian Sing. So clearly not watching us then?
So we're safe then? She's not in the chat yet.
Just wait. She'll Aries will prick up and
know that she's she's been spoken about.
Aries will be burning up there. So I'm going to start start a
timer. We're now at what, 8835?

(04:26):
Let's see how long it is before closing the chat.
A mug mug will text her. Talk about your mum.
I talked about get in the chat. For anyone who's watched a show
by Claire hasn't been on it on alive show, normally Mark Jones
might appear. We'll see if that happens.
Have you seen who's in the chat?No, normally I would never make
a fuss or someone, but Joe Logan's in the chat with us.

(04:48):
And Joe, I know you haven't beenthere for ages.
It's so good to see your name inthe chat tonight and a big
welcome back. And yeah, I think you'll you've
missed loads. I won't even try and shortcut
what we've done because we've done loads in the past the past
few weeks and months. It's been quite a blast.
But, and I, I want to say a hugethank you, John, for last week.

(05:11):
The show that you and the boys did was incredible, has some
amazing feedback and it was really good to listen to last
Friday. I've got to say, I take your hat
off to, to the, to both Josh andJoe, because actually they put a
load of work into it and the so much so that they, they'd
actually cost it out most of thefood options that they were

(05:33):
going to have and the drink options.
And I think Sean Lee, who's not,is not in the chat tonight,
which is, which is, which is quite strange because he what he
stayed with us every minute lastweek and he sent me a beautiful
message after the show. And just just to say that the
look of pride on my face as as as the boys were actually
finding either a cheaper way of doing something or the option

(05:58):
where it's not going to cost youa load of money.
I'm thinking bigger. My work is as a doubt me work is
done. They've learned from the best,
John. Oh, they were brilliant.
And I really, I've got like Joe Joey Normal on Wednesday has a a
big band rehearsal and but he cancelled that so he could be on
the show. So I really appreciated that.

(06:19):
And then Josh had actually just moved accommodation away from
his uni and so evidence sort of all looking.
Yeah. And he actually came on and it
actually was one of those moments that you thought, you
know, in all the six years that we've been doing this, they've
actually been listening and they're actually in the
background. They've been taking notes as to

(06:40):
what I do every week and what you guys all do in order to make
a Wednesday a Wednesday, the show that we we really like to
to put out. And, you know, for half a mind
when I knew everyone wasn't going to do it, it wasn't
available last week. I was thinking how on earth
could I fill an hour, just talk to myself.
And actually the people in the chat were just absolutely superb

(07:02):
and. We need to have both them back
on at some point because $36 forfood for an entire day sounds
like a really good challenge. Yeah, but yeah, but Justin's
going to be They were one. Challenge.
They will want an expensive accommodation because they know
that I'll pay for that, you know?
But that's painfully the accommodation, yeah.
Yeah, I. Think it was a little bit of

(07:23):
that but. I think that if you you took
contestants from race across theworld there, Joe Oh, John, I've
had it. I think budget travelling and I
would agree with you and like like.
Josh, Josh is going into railingin a few weeks.
Strangely enough, on the back ofnot being invited to come in
now. Be in Florida in August and you

(07:45):
can give. The distraction to know that
that you're in Florida. It's just getting on the train.
It's too early for him. It's too early to go back to
Florida, but he's he already hasplans of foot for next year.
Hasn't take long, but it was it was a great show.
Actually, I think it would be a be another really good show to
do with all the people in the mix as well, because it would

(08:08):
never be. It would never be the same and
the choices would never be the same.
And yet there are certain thingsthat the boys chose were nowhere
near on my radar and people in the chat were choosing different
stuff. It was one of those.
It was a brilliant Wednesday last week and I really, I can't
thank the kids enough but. Definitely have to add it to the

(08:31):
list because I remember when we did the original thing six years
ago where we did the original 4 part challenge, we all had a
completely different idea of what what we were doing.
I remember we actually record John's because this division of
1 was too long. Yeah, I remember that as well.
We still got that original nothing called it someone we
could release it. Maybe I could have done just an

(08:53):
hour myself last week after all.Yeah, yeah.
Do you know what I mean? A week where we needed lots of
news. There seems to be even more news
coming up from Disney. So I think it's probably time to
talk about what's happening thisweek.

(09:16):
I still just think of Panda Watch every time I hear that bit
of music. I just think of Panda Watch on
Anchorman. He's my.
One moment every single week we're in Wrong burger day.
You can't love it. Anyway, first thing that

(09:37):
actually I think is a really positive news and John, I'm not
sure what he mentioned this lastweek, but Walt Disney World have
been testing this week significantly improved go to
pass cameras and I've seen some pictures of guests in the park.
They were at Hollywood Studios yesterday and the next level up
camera and the pictures just look so much better.

(09:59):
So I think Disney are I can try to think of what cameras they've
been using before they were Nikon and now they're so and now
the money that's being spent. I wonder if they're easier to
use or they've given them some extra training I.
Think a lot of it may have been new new technology because I
wouldn't have been surprised if some of the ones before were

(10:20):
dated before COVID. Yeah, to be fair.
The ones the ones previously, the newcom ones came with a
sponsorship attachment and the level of outlay for Disney was
was was minimal because they were given, they were given the
cameras. What you tended to find was over
over a period of time, technology has moved on so much,

(10:43):
but they haven't reinvested in in cameras.
So I think what some of the better photo pass photographers
were actually doing that. They're actually buying their
own lenses and actually just making sure that if they were of
a certain standard of photographer that they weren't
getting left behind themselves. And I think there's a.
Member. We've had some photos where I've

(11:06):
gone like, oh, I know we've got it, including our tickets, so
I'm glad I haven't paid for thatphoto.
I remember there was one where we were after hours at Hollywood
Studios and we had a really great experience with the cast
member and the photopast photographer in Galaxy's Edge.
But the pictures, to be perfectly honest, would have
been better if they were taken on my iPhone.

(11:26):
Yeah. And take a better picture with
your phone. Why would you pay for Memory
Maker? Yes, you can ask the class them
to use your phone and you might be able to get that, but
actually how many shows we've done that actually an SLR is a
much better camera to use, but it's all on how the training and
how the camera is used and. Nikons are the easiest.

(11:52):
And remember there was it in 21 year we were there.
I think it was a 2023 in Magic Kingdom.
Every single photographer we come across, the Magic Kingdom
was earning their ears. So we we worked around the Hub 1
and there was there was there was like 12 of them.
It felt like we were literally going from one to the next.
They were training. Every 30 steps.

(12:13):
Yeah, it sounds like a tragic gun.
Every time you went through, there was another photographer.
Can I flip this a little bit, Simon, because because you guys
are annual pass holders and and have been for a while.
So you wouldn't have that as part, you know, I quite like you
see get free as part of your ticket.
So would you normally have paid for Memory Maker in any way,

(12:37):
shape or form? I'm not sure the last time we
actually paid for memory Maker, if we ever have.
I know that we have we have had the annual passes where it was
included before. Yeah, I'm, I'm not a pass holder
anymore. So I've I've lost my I've I've
relinquished my privileges. But yeah, we've as.

(13:03):
As Robin's usually Robin's quickto remind you in the chat line,
you know. Yeah, we, we've, we've usually
between the friends we have somebody has usually got that
the the photos included. So yeah, you know, somewhere
along the line somebody's already got the package and
worrying to get has has providedphotos to us.

(13:25):
But yeah, I can't remember a time where we've actually paid
for the photos as a package. Yeah, yeah, the new, the new.
Camera they're using is $2700 for the camera body and $1400
for the lens. So when you think of how many
photos photographers there are. It's a decent camera, decent

(13:46):
land. It's.
Been expense for Disney, obviously they're probably not
paying for retail price anyway. This is something that they'll
probably would have had agreed with Sony.
It doesn't. Yeah.
This time it does look as if they've had to invest in this.
And I think this is, you know, and again, with any expensive
camera that there was certain shelf life anyway, you know, and

(14:08):
if you're taking thousands upon thousands of photographs every
single day, you really do need to actually update your
equipment. So it's AI think it's a really
big step on that. I shall come back to this in
September once we. Yeah.
I'm looking forward to seeing what our photos are like.
Yeah, because quite often it just depends who's taking it.

(14:30):
And I still come back to that same thing.
Certain photographers can see a photograph and some Basically
you might as well just take a selfie and just be done with.
It, I think we've all had some really good experiences, but
sometimes we've had like ones that like, no, it's I wish I'd
taken that photo instead. But yeah.

(14:51):
And let's, let's talk about Magic Kingdom because a lot has
happened over the past few days and I know we're going to
probably cover this later on. Talk about immersion.
Why go on mute, right? Because that's really the eyes
will tell the the eyes will tellthe whole story.
That just Rivers of America Tom SOAS Island are now permanently

(15:12):
closed and Disney has begun clearing the land.
It's sad. We knew it was going to happen.
I remember not that long ago in PB show we spoke with Claire
about new Piston Peak and the new cars area.
So. I wasn't.
See I. Wasn't on that show, right.
And even when I listened to it, like it made me laugh.

(15:34):
And even now when I heard hear the word piston peak, it still
makes me laugh. It's not going to get any.
It's not going to get any better.
It's just going to be one of them things.
Yeah, I'm not Yeah, yeah. Go on.
Keep going because I'm I'm, I think.
It's one of those things we we all knew this was going to
happen and to be honest, I'm always are up and I'm interested

(15:58):
to see when we get there in August how the land feels
because we're not going to hear the riverboat anymore.
We're not going to get the chance to get Tom Sawyer's
Island and say goodbye to it. It's moved.
The train has now gone into its shuttle mode so it doesn't go
into a loop anymore. It goes down to fancy land and
then comes back. But they have added a character

(16:22):
to the audio which I've heard and it sounds quite interesting.
So I'm adding stitch to the train.
Sounds quite interesting. Well, they don't have this ride
there or, or attraction or a vehicle anymore, so it's really
something. Yeah, and they've got a film to
promote as well, so yeah, I'm sorry.
Filmmaking. Records.

(16:43):
It's one of the making an awful lot of money.
It's really weird not to have that much Stitch representation
in the parks. Yeah, I I feel like this might
be something that will come in the future D23 or there's
probably Imagineering one on something to do with.
It I mean I never understood whythere wasn't Stitch
representation in the box anyway.

(17:03):
He's such a well loved character.
Yeah, and it shouldn't just be limited.
It shouldn't just be limited to like, oh, we've got this After
Hours event, put Stitch in because his popular character
loves some more tickets. That's not inclusive.
That doesn't feel like the rightway to approach this character.
Because I remember we did a Moonlight Magic few years ago.
We got to see Elvis for. Stitch, which I could

(17:26):
understand. That's A and something like
that, that the specific outfit like Mickey and his Halloween
costume, whereas it's just a stitch in the park.
On a normal day, it's normal stitch.
But also, it really highlights another area of Magic Kingdom
that has been left Dorman. This.

(17:47):
Yeah, but we'll look at stitchesGreat Escape.
It's like clearly effects. Let's.
Bring it back. What have they gutted from that
attraction? Is it there if it opens in a few
months? It's like, yeah, it's really
weird to start when they they closed it and they turned it
into also the area where the OR the meet and greet there was a
meet that you could meet stitch for a few months after when it

(18:09):
closed. So there was clearly sort of
people want like stitch, so and.And then came stroller parking.
And that was. Not, not a lot.
Not a lot has been added there. Aside from Trump, right?
Which, I mean, I've took them long enough to put that there,
right. But you look around the rest of
fancy land, other than losing Stitch, yeah, there's nothing

(18:33):
changed in there. For a long time it was quite
static. Kingdom is overdue, yeah.
It's strange that they decided to add the villains land and
Piston Peak rather than revamp Tomorrowland.
Yeah, I. Was going to say.
Fix, but I, I don't know, I, I think they think that Tron was

(18:57):
the sort of diversion of like we've done.
He shouldn't have taken as long as it did.
Yes, the pandemic and the funding for it got cut for and
that's why it was delayed as much as it was.
But also the problem with Tron, it's such a short attraction.
It's not the best attraction andit's it just shows that how

(19:17):
Magic Kingdom needs more development and the frustration
for a lot of us that we love Magic Kingdom and this is was
beyond. Big Thunder Mountain was the
original concept. So this was beyond the park.
Nothing was being touched in. This was going to the outside
where now it feels like it's notbeyond, it's just next to.

(19:37):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to pick you on just
one point about Tomorrowland because actually I think there
is there is an issue in so much as when it was built a lot of
concrete which obviously that show building and the people
mover belongs to the concrete that they used was very often

(19:59):
reinforced with asbestos. And so if you unsettle that and
you try to demolish any any small part of it, you probably
wouldn't end up shutting down a whole.
Massive area. I do not know that to be the
gospel truth, however. I'm just going on the way things
have been within schools that I've worked in that have been

(20:22):
built in that period of time when Magic Kingdom opened and
then latterly when you went intolike 80s.
This is this is this is we're getting into engineering, aren't
we? 80s ACS concrete was the the
really cheap one which. I think before 99 could have
asbestos than that. Yeah.

(20:42):
And then there is that the latest stuff that ends up with
that rack stuff that. Yeah.
Crumbling concrete? No.
And so I, I personally, like I say, I haven't got the
information, it's just a personal thought.
And going like, OK, what's the cost perspective?
How much is it going to cost? What will be what's going to 1

(21:06):
appeal to the fans? Appeal to what?
What we want, because clearly there is a need for Villains
land. It's been, it's a little bit
like Hollywood Studios with Monsters Inc, Monstropolis, that
monster, that coaster that has been talked about for yeah,
pretty much. And they're finally getting
around to doing it. And so I'm glad that the things

(21:30):
happening, but unfortunately we do have to say quite a few
things. Things do always move on.
And I know there's been a lot onthe social media past few days
of a lot of people pouring theirhearts out and it's memories.
And I think that's a difficult thing.
Every time we go to a Disney park, we're creating memories
and we're associating these places with those memories.

(21:50):
So when they do change, we then have to learn to.
Make new memories. I mean.
I wonder if the reason they've had to get rid of Tom Sarand.
I'm just looking at one of the pictures is actually an access
issue. I'm wondering if they couldn't
access the part where they want to put villains land from a
different area. Yeah.

(22:13):
Yeah. The other thing when you
mentioned access, I think as well, when you look at the way
Tom Sarand actually is, if you're looking at making a place
accessible for the entire public, it wasn't, it wasn't
that particularly accessible place.
So that was loads of steps, rickety bridge and everything.

(22:37):
And having to get the boat across as well, it wasn't easy.
Yeah. Yeah.
I would just say I watched a live stream on the last day and
it was the most beautiful live stream I've watched because it
was so touching that and it was a resort TV one.

(22:57):
But Josh was there. But he had his son and his son
Liam is is a young lad, has his own problems.
And it was a case that dad was areally lamenting his last moment
and the son didn't quite get grasped that whole bit.
And yet he understood the fact it was going away forever and he

(23:21):
didn't want it to go away forever.
And the reaction of the cast members and and those people
that shared that very last boat moment was, was something I was
so glad I stayed up late to watch it because it was it was
it was one of the moments that you know that you'll never see
that part of Magic Kingdom again.

(23:41):
And it's a part of Magic Kingdommade it such a unique place.
And yes, I know it has to change.
They just need to do it quick and they need to just get a
shifty on. And what they do need to do is
get rid of that door that they've put in the the end.

(24:02):
I think it's an entrance or whatever for either Tom Sawyer
Island boat ride or for the mainboat.
They put this big who can great big door in the middle of Magic
Kingdom. You just like imaginary the
password, look at it, and you just go, somebody lost their
mind and maybe they haven't put the rest of the walls in.

(24:23):
And I'll get there in August andall just is a seam of walls just
lacking out. A place that was serenity within
a theme park. And yeah, I'm going to miss
that. Yeah.
And I think we should move on tosome slightly positive news that
for those going later this year that when we're in July the
minute and I think it's probablynow time to talk about

(24:44):
Christmas. And I was John John's favorite
topic. I'm still.
Out my Christmas stuff I'd. Say I know I'll.
Get the Christmas tree out of the loft now.
That's it. Yeah, Disney have announced all
of the holiday events that are happening.
So we've got Johnny Wood Nights returning, which on their first

(25:05):
post he called it under Hollywood Studios, which was
quite funny. And but the dates of our
Jollywood nights start November 8th, then go through to December
22nd. And then you have Mickey's Very
Merry Christmas Party returning,which I think is going on a very
similar along the same dates as well, which occurs from November

(25:25):
7th to December 21st. So I wonder if they haven't
announced anything that I can see on there that's changed from
last year. And Mickey's Very Merry
Christmas Party tickets start at$169 up to $229, and if you are
DVC member or annual pass holder, you can save $10 on

(25:45):
select nights. Well makes makes all those wins
purchases worthwhile. I don't know how much I just
yeah. And if you go the week leading
up to Christmas, you get the Christmas parade anyway, so you
don't need holiday party. Yeah, but I'm not sure I know we
it's been it's going to be levelbefore we head back at
Christmas. I'm not sure what price it will

(26:06):
be when we go in a few years time, but it'll.
Be out of budget, yeah. It'll be yeah, so, but yeah, no,
there's, there's been a lot of news and I think we're going to
talk about probably a little bitmore about Thomas Island and a
little bit as we go through the show because we're talking about
the most immersive places in theme parks.

(26:27):
So what's the first thing when you think of an immersive land,
Simon? What what?
What comes to your mind when youthink of immersion?
As things are now, is Pandora still is the first one that kind
of comes to my mind. For me, immersion is that just

(26:48):
sort of like at the beginning I said about where you feel like
you're stepping out of reality. So it just feels like in some
are completely different. You don't have many sight lines
to another land or another part.You literally just feel like
you're immersed within. And I agree with Pandora.
I remember when we did the opening sort of preview and we

(27:10):
walked across that bridge and we're going like, this is very
different. At the time, there was only one
film out which we had to compareit to and it was very different
to think about that. We've left Animal Kingdom and we
are now on Pandora in a completely different world with
different sites, different sound, smells.

(27:31):
It just was a very different feeling.
I mean, at that point I hadn't even seen the film.
OK. So it had.
Nothing to compare. To but to compare it to, and it
was amazing to to step on that even from not having seen the
film, not like what I was looking at, just seeing that as

(27:51):
flighted mountains and trying towork out kind of the engineering
behind it. It was, yeah, it was
fascinating. What do you think, John?
I actually think I actually, it's a really good place to
start because I mean, it's very difficult.
It's very difficult to be, but Ipossibly would take a step

(28:13):
backwards. And actually, I would actually
say of all the theme parks, I think Animal Kingdom is the one
that's possibly retained even when they've added like the
likes of Everest. But it's retained that that
immersion in, in, in, in, in probably in a more collective
way than any any other parks. Whereas I think the studios have

(28:36):
kind of lost that immersion of acollective park, but they've
then got in different parts of the park.
Animal Kingdom as one still works for me.
And it still has that complete ability to, even if you just
went in and you went for a walk,you didn't ride or, or you

(28:57):
didn't go to the shows, you would come out and you would
have had that feeling that you've not been in Central
Florida for a number of hours. I think where Simon came came at
this is that little walk across the bridge and where you'd go
past Tippins and then everythingchanges.

(29:21):
But there's you just like in that, that whole bit where
everything, just everything in front of your eyes, you, you are
basically walking through in a way a portal.
I used to, I used to hate it when kids, when kids use that on
the right and I used to I I hatethat.
I hate that description really. You're going to love Epic

(29:43):
Universe for you. Yeah, maybe that's why kids
foresaw that. But that once you're up that
bridge, the sounds change, the sights change, the pavement
changes everything. And it's just, it's the most
incredible theme park feeling. And if you come round the other

(30:04):
way through Africa and you, you're having to be forced
across that sort of wooden bit and, and what will forever be
known as Josh's, Josh's cast before you go under the bridge.
And it's just like you've taken into that little bit of peace
and tranquility before the polarPandora just opens up in front

(30:29):
of your eyes. And there's something about it.
It's not about the rides. It's something about that whole
that whole experience. And then when you ride flight a
passage and when you sat there before the ride starts and you
actually you begin to feel the whole the whole thing when the
seat, when the seat sort of got a pulse and you sat there and

(30:51):
you just like you thought of this because this is just take
taking it to the NTH degree. Because it's not just building
an incredible attraction. It's.
The build up, so it's the hues, it's everything you go from when
you think it's like you walk through the gift shop at the end
and you look at the restaurants and you look at the food, all

(31:13):
the everything sort of theme to it so.
It's not like that's such an amazing 1 though, Ben.
Because actually when? It's not like you go there and
you can see chicken Nuggets on the menu.
Yeah. But we eat something that.
But when you come off the, when you come off the ride and this,
this is the, this is the trip into the film.
And this is a bit that I, I really, I mean, you're in the

(31:35):
queue line and everything becomes, you know, everything's
just like really emerging. And then you get towards the
queue and everything becomes quite industrial and it's all
concrete. And then when you come off, the
starkness of the concrete is, isso noticeable as opposed to the

(31:55):
the beauty in the build up to actually going on the ride.
It isn't it's, it is quite it's like, it's a trick and it's like
that the whole sort of turn and everything on its head as to
what the world becomes when you take away that natural beauty.
And I think again, it's one of their moments that you might

(32:19):
just come off the ride and you just, oh, let's go to the gift
shop. And so but that deliberate use
of concrete, including the ones with the hands of Joe Rhodey and
John Moss, it's John Mos Centre and James Cameron.
Go and find it. It's a little bit hidden magic.
But when you actually get and itis just a concrete view and it

(32:43):
jars on the eyes having experienced what you've
experienced, but it's deliberateand it's that flip to actually
remind you of without nature andwithout looking after the world.
This is what we will be common, just like a concrete jungle.
It's beautiful, brilliant. I think every.
Every little bit of Pandora there was got like a quality to

(33:07):
it that screams like a differentplanet.
Even even how well the queue lines snake through planted
areas that hide both the queue line from outside the ride.
But when you're in the queue line, you don't look back and
see a sea of people you see planting and and lush green.

(33:32):
And it's how that hides everything that makes you
complete feel completely immersed and at times forget
that you're actually in part of a theme park.
I think that how well they've managed to to filter the crowds
through that area is is worked really well.
But then there's certain stark areas, like you say, John, the

(33:55):
exit for Flight of Passage, where it is the stark concrete
area and everybody floods out from the ride.
I think it's. Yeah, it's brilliant.
Loads of the details feel out ofthe world, out of this world.
They feel like they're not from from Earth planting, lighting,

(34:17):
strange things that are just in the the flower beds.
It just feels, yeah, immersive and and unusual.
So would we say Pandora was the first properly immersed man that
I walked into? This.
Is it? It's really difficult because
it's the one that comes to everybody's mind.

(34:39):
But I remember going back to 2013, the first time we walked
into the wizarding world of Harry Potter and just going
there and just like seeing the castle, going to Hogsmeade,
looking at that and just going like, OK, I feel like I am in
the book. I can see where everything is.

(35:00):
And yes, if you look carefully, you can see dinosaurs to the
left and depends on where you are in in Hogsmeade.
But it's one of those things that actually, I think as soon
as you step forward into the queue for forbidden journey, you
forget you're in a theme park. You're in sort of the world of
Harry Potter. You know that where you just see

(35:23):
everything that you remember just reading in the books and
just things coming live characters and just it's the
sounds. And then it's just being on that
attraction that's designed to befairly on a broomstick.
Yeah. I think diagonally does it
slightly better. I remember walking into Diagon
alley and having to stop becauseI was overwhelmed with what I

(35:47):
was seeing. I think it does better with the
sight lines as well because you don't have the dinosaurs to the
left. Yeah, I think it's a better
reveal. You walk through that wall.
Just like in the book. And King's Cross is almost.

(36:09):
But honestly, I could do with a little bit more dirt.
A little bit more dirt. Yeah, King's crunch recently,
Yeah. More taxis.
More. Yeah, more taxis outside.
I just like. I just like.
You couldn't get the overpriced Mars bars and Golden Wonder
crisps. I don't even think you'd get
golden wonder crisps. In the UK anymore, I think you

(36:32):
can. You cannot.
You're right back. I'm not spending $6 on a packet.
They're only in certain shops along with Seabrooks.
I actually think you're right, and I actually think what I
think. From my perspective, the whole

(36:53):
Harry Potter scenario within Universal was a wake up call for
everyone. And it was a wake up call for
what you can do in modern technology and how you can how
you can appeal to an audience that had, you know, had changed,

(37:15):
you know, from theme parks, theme parks that had Jaws in
them, theme parks that, you know, were harking back to, you
know, films from the 70s or or beyond in Disney's case.
And yet to be able to replicate a book and some of the Harry
Potter films so quickly within atheme park.

(37:37):
I think I take my hat off to it.But I also feel as if, you know,
again, I don't know this to be true.
I would imagine if you spoke to the people actually designed it,
they probably have regrets that they didn't do XY and Z
incorrectly, which I felt, I actually felt that.

(38:00):
And I think Harry Potter is lucky because a lot of people
have watched the films and like you said, Becca, you haven't
seen the films that linked to Pandora when you first went.
And so I think that was the bit where a lot of people were, oh,
I need to go and watch Avatar because they don't quite
understand this, this and this. So you're then getting people

(38:21):
going back to the film. I just think Harry Potter raised
the game within being theme parkdesign and and the immersement,
I think, but the key coming backto because it's the theme of
this show. It was a game changer.
I. Don't know whether.
She'll all be thankful for that.I don't know whether it was the

(38:41):
first one that brought in like specifically themed food and
drink relative to the land as well.
And and I think that's that's a significant game changing part
of immersion, right is is it spreads to everything.
It's not the you've got an immersive land that is then
selling burgers and fries and onthe.

(39:05):
Floor sponsored by McDonald's, Wimpy and Burger.
Yeah, yeah. That's a, that's a really good
Carl Simon. Love that because when you when
you. Go into that for the first time
and when you, when you, I remember the first time you go
in there and it was like, well, you go for breakfast and it's
like, are you looking at the menu and go, well, why don't
they get them? Not a regular food item, but

(39:27):
then a lot of things are themes of different names.
And then it's it follows the story.
And I know when you look at the going back to Pandora, when you
look at the menus for Tudor can see and they've got the bowl was
they've got the cheeseburger pods.
There are so many different things on that menu that I
always think wouldn't belong in the theme park.

(39:49):
But I'm so glad that they are now in a theme park.
Yeah, it's sort of just kicks the the old average of theme
park foods or just burgers and fries and and you go there and
you experience something that's specific to the lamb that makes
you feel like you've eaten something from the place you're
in. The same you've got to beer or

(40:10):
whatever food they decide to serve any of the if the places
in Dagon Alley or Hogsmeade. That that first the first time,
the first time we actually went into Certuli can tea.
I actually it's the first time I've ever been completely
overrod by a menu within a themepark where.

(40:32):
Yeah. And you it takes a bit of
getting used to when you're having to order in such a
different way of looking at proteins and looking at this and
you're really looking like, hangon, I just want this and this
and to see the quality of food. And this is probably where both
park set this totally apart because I remember we had, I

(40:55):
think we had a breakfast at one point in Universal and it was
just like it was a proper English breakfast.
And you're like that plate it's got even got black pudding on it
as well. Doesn't taste that great, but it
doesn't taste. Like.
You can get fish and chips thereand it's like, well, this
doesn't feel there's not many places in Walt Disney World,

(41:18):
that's one. Could you get fish and chips?
Yeah, yeah. But Sir Tooley again just
changed, changed that. I think this is the bit for me
that you know, Simon, you recently you've been in Europe
and you visited this on Paris and I think did you go to the
other theme park which name escapes me, which hopefully

(41:41):
rescue. Yeah, so we did.
We visited after Ling. I didn't.
I didn't go to Disneyland Paris,But Robin did go to Disneyland
Paris again. Yeah.
So is it? Is there anything within
afterlink that it comes close onan immersement point of view?
It's very different so that thatthat I'd say is one of the most
whimsical theme parks. You can see the Fantasyland

(42:03):
inspiration that I think is whata lot of a lot of modern day
Imagineers tape from a park likeAfterlink.
The whimsical storytelling element.
I'd say it's different in immersion.
In immersion. It feels very Dutch in the
storytelling approach, but it isvery whimsical and.

(42:24):
So probably very similar to sortof 1970s and 80s Magic Kingdom
in some ways, yeah. But I'd say even even Hawks back
a little bit more to like Disneyland storytelling.
The the whimsical storytelling element is, is much more
significant in that part. And he feels like a like a a

(42:47):
classic theme park in that sense.
How it's shaped and the the theming of the rides is really
well done. I wouldn't say it's like an
immersive land in the same way there's immersive stories to the
the attractions and how they have a tell the story as you
move through the the ride itselfand like a little bit of a back

(43:09):
story to some of them, but not in the same way of it being an
immersive land like we have withmore modern theme park lands
that there are. I actually, this is becoming
quite a thing, isn't it? Because you know, if we look
historically Harry Potter, then we go to Pandora, then we go

(43:30):
back to Universal for their expansion and link and link it
linking islands of adventure Harry Potter.
Very trained to encourage peopleto buy two-part tickets or a
park property. What a genius idea, that.
Was a really good idea it. Wasn't it just Yeah.

(43:51):
And actually, I might as well get it out there because
actually when you walk into thatpart of the latter Harry Potter
books again, it went, it goes upanother level up to what that
whole Gringotts part of it. And, you know, I still can't
believe that what you, what you're actually looking at isn't

(44:14):
actually real, real people. And when you look from where,
when you actually walk into thatDiagon Alley and you get on to
the attraction and it's like youlook at the sort of the facade
at the front and you think like,that's an attraction.
It just, it looks so much like it's supposed to.
It's a green God's bank. And you walk into it and it's
like, oh, and you just keep going back further and further.

(44:38):
And then you go into a lift and you go upstairs and then you're
finally on the attraction. It's amazing to think of how big
that show building probably is, but actually the point that you
enter the attraction from sort of the guest perspective, how
much more immersed you are within it.

(44:58):
Well, I don't know if there are any of either of you have done
the Western World Tour Watford, but last time we went they had
the diagonally and the Gringottsthat just opened and they look
so much like what Universal Studios have got that it's hard

(45:20):
to work out which is the studio and which is the big buck.
They got the design of the facades and that bank ball
court. That's the important bit, right?
It's for the, the two elements are the, the familiarity that

(45:41):
everybody has with it. So ensuring that the likeness is
there. And then the other one is always
depth of experience. It's it's things like is there
more than just a ride there? Is there details in the show
building, in the queue lines that you experience as you are
as you go through that referenceelements of the storyline that
makes you feel part of the journey?

(46:03):
Are there other side experiencesthat might not be a a a kind of
E ticket type ride, but I'm an immersive thing in themselves?
Is it a shop experience where you can purchase something that
is from that that world? Is it like going to Ollivanders
getting? Ollivanders and.
Or are you going to Florian Fortescue's for ice cream?

(46:25):
Or you can go into the Gringottsexchange and get some.
Change of money for. Gillian's and.
Yeah, that's the depth bit rightis the depth of the experience
makes makes the exploring storytelling element.
And that's the bit, John, that Icome back to the, the the older
European parks is the storytelling element, which is I

(46:49):
think what most modern theme park designers will take forward
is the immersive experiences aredependent on having a story
attached to that land that you're in that makes you feel
like you are part of the the land.
And, and I actually feel, Simon,I think this is, is that it

(47:10):
certainly is for me, you know, and even going back to the
original setup of Magic Kingdom in Orlando, you still have that
bit within Walt Disney, the person, how he envisaged a theme
park to take you into this placethat, you know, that that whole

(47:34):
bit about sort of land of fantasy and, and, and, and take
you back to days of innocence asa child.
And and that's, that's a clever part of it because unfortunately
or fortunately depends which which way you want to look at
it. Yeah, the people who are much

(47:55):
younger than me, and even, I'll hasten to add, before she says
that she's the youngest a lot, even much younger than Becca.
But even people who are now accessing theme parks as either
young kids or as teenagers or intheir 20s, they are looking for

(48:15):
something completely different because they've they've actually
had not just the Internet, but they've also been through that
whole generation of EV has changed.
And their expectation of, of, ofwhat you see within movies has
changed because that's the, you know, the whole computer
generated graphic part of it means that they think that this

(48:40):
castle that they see before themis something that should be
completely able to be replicatedand be completely 3D in front of
their. Own with, with technology and
things like you mentioned 3D, but also virtual reality and how
often things can be replicated and how every time that I see

(49:01):
Imagineering videos and you see what they're working on, there's
always talk of how they use virtual reality to replicate
these and how eventually that will become part of an
attraction, part of an experience because it's that
full immersion you can put on a headset and forget about

(49:23):
everything that's happening around you.
Because I remember there was wasthere a Star Wars place at
Disney Spirits that did say? Yeah.
That it it was only there for like a couple of years, but they
offered the opportunity that youcould go through this styles
experience in virtual reality asa Stormtrooper, which is I

(49:44):
didn't get a chance to do it because it actually sounds like
something I'd I'd really like todo.
But that just adds another levelof immersion that Disney have
been able to properly replicate in Galaxy's Edge.
I think that's a perfect way of segwaying into Galaxy's edge,
because I think that that that in itself, it follows on from
how the technology has allowed them to go from again, from the

(50:07):
two Harry Potters from Pandora and then create an area within
horror studios. That is.
I've got to say, when I saw it properly last year for the first
time, it blew me away. We just, you know, I'm just,
you're not a. Star, you're not a Star Wars fan
are. You.
No, I'm not. I'm not.
And then I've recently written this and we stripped the at the

(50:32):
weekend is I can't get I actually can't get over how you
become completely smitten by notjust not just the stories that
you I've watched probably in detail, probably the first
properly the first three films I've dipped in and out of

(50:55):
others. But once you start within that
land, you actually you're actually forced into just going
and actually trying to understand so much more.
And it is so incredible how theycan actually replicate.
And one of the things I put a couple of pictures of, we spent

(51:17):
about half an hour walking between Galaxy's Edge into Toy
Story Land and then walking backagain and then going back again.
And it's the most boring bit I've ever written about, but I
was completely taken when when you go in past baseline tap and
you go through this tournament and galaxies like that's fine.
You can understand the fact thatyou you are entering in

(51:39):
somewhere when you come from somewhere that's got all the
colours and all the noise at ToyStory Land.
And there's there's a point, there's, there's like a cut off
line. And at that point the noise
changes. And from that point forward, you
can't hear anyone who's on a slinky dog.

(52:00):
And this is a bit that gets me that the sound is just such that
how can you drown out a roller coaster with people screaming?
And yet right next door you've got something that is trying to
be immersive to the extent of Garlic's HR.
That blew me away. And that's like I say, I openly

(52:23):
admit it's a much boring thing, but you walk between the two and
there is. It's so impressive, it really
is. Yeah.
And just just there is a definite line and it's just
like, I can't. Yeah.
If you're that way inclined, go and check it out yourself
because actually it's just one of them.
It's clever. You notice the same consistent

(52:47):
things between these lands, right?
And it's that they are usually underpinned by a huge film
franchise. And that's that starting plane
of you. You've got a base audience of
people that are bought into thatthat world.
So to create a world off the back of that franchise, you've

(53:07):
got an instant you, you, you've got to deliver on the promise,
right? It's it's got to be.
Yeah. But you look then at the depths
again that they did with Batu. And that was it.
It's like quite an overwhelming land when you go and explore
that, right? Because it's every turn and
every corner, there's something new that you, you discover in

(53:30):
that area. And even down to the details
like the, the way the toilets inthose areas are, are made as
well, like the, the industrial nature of how those are created.
But every twist and turn exposesanother path for you to
discover. And it's that depth of it, depth
of even just the animatronic type things that are on display,

(53:53):
even just as a as a random thingfor you to discover or the shop
experiences for you to go to andbuild a lightsaber or build a
Droid. The the multiple food options
and then at the top it off the the coke bottles that are.
Yeah, that's. That's taking that that the
depth of the experience up a notch.

(54:16):
See what I thought it was even raised even higher than that is
the Galaxy Ledge. The story from the cast members
and the when you have like Chewbacca and Ray walking
through it just adds an extra level of immersion.
Yes, there are characters to other lands, but actually I feel

(54:36):
like Galaxy Ledge hits the storyright.
So they've got the story of thisand they set Bright Sun's not
good. There's a particular thing that
that you get which you'd get. I remember in the first time we
went to Pandora, it was you had the introduction of Sivako and
then you had, you went on the ride and you understood a bit of
the language of Malara. But with Galaxy's Edge, I feel

(55:00):
like they've just stepped that up.
And that's probably because everybody, a lot of there's so
many fans of Star Wars and then want to be able to cover to so
many different people because looking at the chat, there are
also a lot that aren't big Star Wars fans.
But it's such, it's so impressive and it's still so

(55:22):
accessible to everyone. It's not like don't go to this
land and because you won't get it.
And I think that's difficult. I'm not a huge Star Wars fan.
Well, I'm pretty certain somewhere on the shelves over
here I have two Diet Coke bottles from Battery.
Yeah, so. We've got, we went back to
Disneyland and we've we've got some.
No. And that's that's the way in

(55:43):
which it gets you. And that's that's the exciting
part of it. I'm totally with you, Simon.
You don't have to be within it. And it is the film franchise
bet. And yeah, I would imagine if if
you did it badly and if you did it to the degree at which.

(56:04):
And I would say Star Wars is oneof those films that if you were
probably rating a Star Wars fan out of 10, most Star Wars proper
fans about 20 because they've noticed every single detail in

(56:24):
every single film and they have basically out George Lucas
himself. And if they've messed it up that
whole probably a little bit likethe hotel isn't it?
You know, if you're not going todo it properly and not make it
accessible to people and you're just playing at it as a cash
grab, that's fine. We'll just leave it alone and

(56:46):
we'll we won't buy into it. What they have done is make it
completely on point with detail,even down to the hidden, the
hidden details, the little Easter eggs within, not just the
queue lines, but within, within every part of it where if you're

(57:08):
a proper fan you will get more out of it than someone like I
would and. One of the biggest things for me
is when you walk into the queue of Millennium Falcon and you're
walking through and you've just got all, you're surrounded by
the noises of the Millennium Falcon.
It's. But it the way it is, as soon as
you walk around in the first bitof the queue where you look

(57:28):
outside, but you can see the Falcon and it's just hearing the
engine noises and the lights that are all set in time where
that it's just. Yeah, it sets up what you know
is going to be a very good ride,a good attraction.
And then all the way through that queue line, it's just set
another level. And even when they open Rise to
Resistance six months after opening, I can see it just

(57:52):
stepped up even more. Because John, I've read your
trip report and just saw your picture of just when you see the
stormtroopers on Rise to Resistance, when you're going
into a hanger bag and when you talk about being immersed in in
something and then you have the 1st Order troopers.

(58:13):
But. The way they talk to from that
point on is is the expectation that you are no longer a Disney
guest. Like you're part of the story.
You're part of it and and that is that is true sort of
development of of probably a very risky thing, but for the

(58:34):
company to actually be in that bit where you can actually have
people shout it, you know, move on, move on.
And she's like, it's, but that'swhat you're looking for.
You're looking for that completepart of it and.
But Disneyland haven't not done that before because they've
they've done things like when doyou think on Tower of Terror
when you get on, there's some cast members step.

(58:56):
Back from it. Though I know it doesn't make
sense, but possibly because people aren't used to that level
of immersion and people people just don't understand it and
they think it's just something and because they don't
understand it they take it the wrong way.
I hadn't thought, I hadn't thought about that until you
said that. Then I actually.

(59:17):
That that's been just I. Think I think we're, I think
we're on. We might be on.
There's something here because actually and.
I'm hoping this Disney news whatwe what we're talking about
tonight. Is it something?
Something that people just can'thandle.
Yeah, people aren't used to it. And then maybe that that's, I
remember there was probably quite a few.

(59:38):
I remember in 2019 when Galaxy Edge opened and there was a lot
of people going like, oh, it's not for me and everyone's saying
bright Suns, but all we'll do isfind the toilet.
And it's like, they're not part of the immersion, so they don't
understand it. And I wondered whether what
level of immersion do people want?
Because everyone's going to be different.

(59:58):
Because sometimes you want to befully immersed in it and people
will actually take a step back and rest by it.
I can't wait to see what Disney do with.
The new cars area in Magic Kingdom and villains land
because of villains, the themingof the characters that they
could use. I'm just thinking Haiti is
something that Edison I, I I'm really hoping for quite a dark

(01:00:23):
area, but then you're Industry Kingdom, yeah.
Suck for Disney. Park for Disney?
Yeah. I can imagine, I can imagine
someone's lawyers are going to be looking at it very carefully.
And it's just like, I just think, I just think it's one of
those things that when the worldhas changed significantly over

(01:00:43):
probably 5-5 or six years because of what's going on,
younger people have become less tolerant of being shouted at, a
little bit less capable than being told what to do.
But could you imagine putting that into the back end of Magic
Kingdom and and scaring people? Goodness, how would how would

(01:01:03):
they cope? How would they cope in watching
some of the original Walt Disneyanimations?
You know, go and watch the original Fantasia.
Go and watch, even even go and watch the original Pinocchio.
If you want to have a scary. Scary.
Go to Disneyland and have an interaction with the Evil Queen.

(01:01:23):
She was brilliant. Absolutely.
Spot on we were. She insulted every person that
she spiked. In a fun light, actually it was.
I really wish I filmed it, but it was just just in awe.
And I have to admit there was some areas of Disneyland.
I think that Oz land, for example, when we first saw this

(01:01:45):
is a land, if they can replicatethe same feeling they had
walking into cars land into the Magic Kingdom.
I can't wait. And I know we started off the
show with something negative about Tom Sawyer Island closing,
but I am so excited to see what they can replicate from
Disneyland because that's workedreally well there and there's a

(01:02:07):
reason why don't. Have to do something, Ben.
But I think there is there is anelement right, of people that
trying to extract newer routes to the parks.
You know, the everything's starting to move towards
completely like IP Focus and TomSawyer Island and the Rivers of

(01:02:28):
America. I think most people is they,
they are sad because it's memories that they have attached
to those are nostalgia rather than new people coming to the
park and and actually actively enjoying that and thinking this
is something great. If they were given the
opportunity, maybe most of them would say, well I'd love to see

(01:02:50):
a cars land over rivers. Of of America.
Still be there. So yeah, yeah, I'm, I mean, I
for me, I never have any huge objections to things being taken
away and replaced with something.
I think it's it's a part of mostof the piles, right.
It doesn't mean that wasn't sad when Jaws was replaced with.

(01:03:10):
Diagonal. It can always come back.
It always come back. It's really weird that because
only a couple of weeks ago I ended up watching Jaws again
because it was on the TV and like the rest, the rest of the
family came out. What are you watching?
It's it's all right. It's all right.

(01:03:31):
It's this film from the 70s thatinspired the whole of Universal
Studios supported Jaws writing. It's still one of the greatest
movies ever made, John. Isn't it just that?
I have night, I have nightmares from that film because I had to
write my GCSEs and the media studies section was on Jaws and

(01:03:51):
we've had some watches several times so.
But so. But again, something that's
completely and totally film related.
And yet even within Universal now I know it was basic
technology and stuff like that. That whole bit of being in a
boat and the whole storyline wastruly quite, quite a thing.

(01:04:18):
And I actually remember being onit the first the first time and
had my mum with us and she was like, and she was shocked
because she'd never seen the film and she wasn't expecting
you, wasn't expecting the shark and all that.
But it was either really funny or really scary.
And, and you just a bit like Tower of Terrors.

(01:04:40):
You feed off the people that you're within the ride and those
people who don't know what's about to happen and they're
really scared. You enjoy the giggle at them,
whereas they also are scared absolutely witless because, and
that's the joy of it. That's the embarrassment.
And that's, that's such a difficult thing to get right.

(01:05:02):
But yes, Simon, best film and itwas great because my kids had
never watched it before, so we actually watched it from the
very beginning and it was just like.
His 50th 50th anniversary. This year, yeah.
And they were. But they were like, how are you
guys? We allowed to show that back in
the day. And so wait.
Wait until you see these films. We've watched Blaze and Saddles

(01:05:28):
years before. I hastened to.
Do you think the Universal couldbring that back in some way?
Because you've got a new park over in the UK in 2031?
It's probably a vote or a petition somewhere that for it
to make a comeback in another part.
Disney Classics land. Not Disney Classics.
You know that's. Bring back a Back to the Future

(01:05:51):
about an immersive Back to the Future world.
That the rumor is that the roller coaster that they have
planned is a Back to the Future roller coaster.
Oh. Wow.
So, and it's such an incredible franchise, it's I could see them
tapping into various different things.

(01:06:12):
And actually, I think the biggest thing we haven't spoken
about, which is talking about immersion.
And that's not because none of us here have actually been there
yet. And that's Epic Universe.
Everything I've seen from it, everything I've heard, it seems
to be one of the most immersive sort of lands.
There's so many different because I've been talking about

(01:06:32):
Harry Potter already. I can't wait to go next month
and experience this because we had a great opportunity a couple
of days ago to speak to Ross Orlando Adventures Podcast, who
we spoke about his first time togo to Epic University during the
previews. And he just shared just a few
must dos, so many incredible moments of like.

(01:06:56):
And also he's going back next month or two.
So it's clearly something that'sgood about this park that makes
me want to go back again and again.
And John, I would like to know, did you get the end of the show
by your tickets? At the beginning of the show,
you weren't sure what you're going to.
I wasn't and this is this is oneof the things that's been really

(01:07:16):
chewing in my mind is to is it possible?
Is it is it one of those things that you'll regret going and
then finding out that it's dead busy and you can't write
anything you can't do And actually by the time it's yeah,
and this is a mid month podcast are it's a spoiler alert.

(01:07:37):
If you if you're one of those people that likes to listen to
the whole show, I'll tell you now I'm currently sat with just.
Move that little bit of paper. I'm going to, I'm going to have
to hide my barcode and I and allkinds of other stuff.
But yeah, I think it's ticket tickets.
Tickets are universal around me.I've been printed them out and

(01:07:58):
they've got them on me app and we're going and we're going to
Epic because actually after listening the way that that
whole recording went, I don't think it really matters what
rides you get on to. It's the experience and and at

(01:08:19):
some point in the future you'll get onto the Harry Potter ride,
I think, I think this summer with three hours plus wait
times, I might just wait a little while for that, but then
go and explore everything else. It has to.
It was, it was just it was a real good show to record.
But there's also a good reminderof.

(01:08:40):
Well, I mean, this, this is really where they are.
I know that. Well, I know.
We'll just touch briefly. SeaWorld had AVR poster once,
right? Yeah, I think that was basically
you put a headset on and it was a completely different you, you
weren't really even on the roller coaster per SE.
You were watching sort of completely the headset, right.
And I think this is universal bringing the the two things

(01:09:03):
together, the actual augmented reality headsets, which is just
that next level of immersion, right?
And I think this has got this has got a LAN for everybody to
go and enjoy this immersive in some way, whether that's, you
know, bird from how to train, train your dragon to more Harry

(01:09:26):
Potter. It's like I it's just every
every bit of the corner of the park is just immersion.
So it's immersion central, right?
It's just looks great. And and this I think it's a
brand new park that we haven't seen.
And also it's having a opportunity of experience, but
know that we're going to have this every trip going forward

(01:09:47):
that we have the opportunity to go and see it again.
It's not like this is the only time we're going to do it.
We've proved that. I booked another trip next year
just to go and do epics. So it is it's one of one of
those things that I'm really excited.
It's what we're going to see. I've heard some people talk
about it and I'm just interestedto see what happens next month.
It's sort of. It does, sort of.

(01:10:10):
I think Disney needs to touch a little bit, doesn't it?
When you look at the scale of what they've, what Universal
have achieved with Epic. Yeah, it seems like.
Five years as well. It's.
Five years. Five years.
It's at Disney's new Tron. Whole park has multiple
attractions, big show buildings,hotels.
Incredible animatronic, completely universal.

(01:10:33):
It's not so just we're going to copy and paste stuff from
another park somewhere and put it there.
But also Universal have announced that they're still
developing. Look at that.
They've announced the closure ofRock'n'roll and sorry, Repride
Rocket, which is going to be replaced by another coaster,
which the all of the social media is going to be pointing
out as Ghostbusters. So I'm quite interested to see

(01:10:53):
what happens with that. And but this is just I.
Think we should just make parts of that part retro?
You know, they've got the retro parade there filling with retro
parts. Retro.
And this is this is the thing I by Universal having another
part, everyone's going to epic. The other parts will be slightly
quieter so I can do more maintenance, so I can do

(01:11:15):
updates. And this is where I think Disney
have spent the last few years. Just yesterday, guardians that
did Tron, which was announced before the pandemic.
It's what I've they've done since often build more hotels.
Filled the pockets, I hasten to think, and I hate to be negative
about it, I really do. But yeah.

(01:11:36):
But that's they can use that money.
They can use that money now to reinvest into the parks.
And I think we saw a first glimmer of that last D23 last
August where you're getting Monstropolis.
We're now that's talking about cars, villains.
We're actually getting yeah, tropical back as dinosaurs grows
in. There's all the things that are

(01:11:56):
happening. So I can't wait to see what the
first D 23 because there is AD 23 this August, the last three
days in August, luckily we kind of escaped that for a few days.
There's going to be, there's going to be a big massive panic
button being pressed, right? Live, live.
From every project, there's an Imagineering is going to be
Greenland. It's going to be one of those

(01:12:18):
like, here's the money. It is interesting, but you know
what? I can't wait to see what Disney
do. I would like, I mean, they came
back fighting from the two HarryPotter lands that opened with
Pandora and Galaxy Search. So let's see what they come back
fighting with this time. Well, I'd just, I'd say in the

(01:12:39):
West Coast though, they, they'venever, they haven't necessarily
stopped over there, right? The, the Marvel land on in
California adventures kind of expanded and you know, that is
that is 1 decent example on the West Coast that I think they've,
they've really excelled at how they've crafted that.

(01:13:02):
The, the way they brought the characters to life in that part
of the park, the multiple rides that they're piercing around
that I don't know that loads of them are shared between other
parks. But how how it's set at
Disneyland is quite well positioned in the park in terms
of when you're in that area, youfeel like you are in a Marvel

(01:13:23):
dedicated area. There's characters there.
The all of the the theming of the restaurants is you know,
like the pin kitchen with the huge yeah.
And I think that's been done really well.
But I think that that isn't likea little nod that that park has

(01:13:44):
has had the love over the last few years.
I think the West Coast has has definitely had the just a more
consistent level of of investment that's.
Wonder whether Disney, what is it was focused on infrastructure
with hotels and that side of it and you had the sky liner and
it's all these these bits that Idon't I don't know all these
people that can now stay at WaltDisney World need somewhere to

(01:14:07):
go and. They're not stopping at the
hotels either. They're they're still you've got
building. Was it Lake Lake Lakeshore
Lodge? Lakeside Lodge?
The. Reflections as everybody.
But yeah, reflections, what it was originally called, still
preferred that name. Yeah, another DVC property which
I can't complain. Because not general hotels, the

(01:14:30):
general populace it's the same. Yeah, just deluxe hotels.
So yeah, it's not like they're building another OP, or at least
with the Universal, when they built Epic Universe, you've got
a couple of value hotels that they added alongside the Grand
Helios. I think they've thought about
this really quite strategically and, and very possibly, I know,

(01:14:54):
I know said this probably about a year ago, but they're very
possibly done a very corporate thing and actually ensuring
you've got hotel space to back up a new theme park.
But then also got now got a product, which means that people

(01:15:19):
like myself are faced with that question of shall we just do
Universal and we'll leave Disneyuntil they sort things out.
And but Universal are actually prepared for this because
they've actually put enough hotel rooms into that whole
scenario, very quiet, very quietly and very
surreptitiously. You know, they've just got on

(01:15:40):
and done it all in the background, but done it quickly,
efficiently and actually without, I would say without
Disney Corporation actually noticing what they were doing.
And I think unfortunately as we stand, I think that might not be

(01:16:00):
for the best thing for just Disney shareholders.
And the money worked out the prices of actually those hotels,
because for our trip next January, the hotel worked out
about £400 for a week. I don't know anyone on Disney
that I could stay for that price.
I did have a look, I did have a look for where we're going next

(01:16:21):
month, but I thought, no, I can't.
I can't push it anymore. I think there's another aspect,
John. I think there's an element that
I don't think Disney knew how tocounteract it.
And I think it's kind of having to sit back and and let
Universal walk away with what they're doing and.
Disney have to focus on what they can do and then the

(01:16:43):
Universal will do and then it's over a little bit of.
Time once because I think they'll always be they'll always
be the the crowd of people that go and do theme parks and they
will always do both. What they might see is that
people may stay at Universal andventure to Disney instead of
doing it where somebody may havedone the other way around,

(01:17:04):
stayed at Disney and venture to Universal.
I think the offering that Universal have got with those
parks and I think how they've also managed to strategically
create a resort even with the space and distance between the
theme parks, the, the road infrastructure, the hotels
they've built and pieced that together that make it like a

(01:17:27):
seamless resort experience mean that it still feels like it's
Universal Resort Orlando as opposed to you've got one park
of the road and another one like2 miles away.
It still feels very close to knit there and all like it's all
just universe. So I think I think there'll be a

(01:17:47):
lot of people that will be eating up Universal on their
offers of hotels and staying back around that.
I drive type area to to be in and amongst Universal theme
parks, at least for the next fewyears.
I think Disney got to sit back and do what I think rather than
trying to compete and outdo Universal is do what they do

(01:18:10):
well. Best, Yeah, Focus on what they
do. Create another Galaxy's Edge
phone. Do that level of theming in
villains. Do that in cars.
Do that in Monstropolis. Do what they're good at, find
their unique offering that they can bring.
Don't try and compete line for line with Universal just.
No, but go back to sell more. Expensive tickets, but.

(01:18:33):
Go yeah but go back to what theyused to be really good at is
making people feel really special when whenever you watch
it with Disney and that includestraining your cast members
having a corporate identity similar to it was 10 years ago
were not only do cast members feel completely special but they

(01:18:57):
exuded that on to the guests that were in the park and
admittedly we've had trying daysand things like but somewhere at
court at the top of the corporation someone's lost sight
of exactly what those those old principles of being Disney was

(01:19:18):
all about if. You explained to focus on cost,
has just. Yeah.
We just need to just, it breaks me hard to talk about it because
I know we try to be really positive on this.
But from a, from AUK perspectiveand from a business perspective,
you look upon it and you're thinking there's, there's two

(01:19:40):
sides to this. It's a bit like a supermarket
war, isn't it? In the UK, someone has lost
sight of what the collective sort of consumer is and they've
just decided we just got, but let's go for the money, we'll be
all right. And then the other side have
gone, oh, we can see an opportunity here.
Let's invest probably at a time where nobody else was given, you

(01:20:05):
know? Was able to look forward to to
get jobs and things like let's go health all those are on this
so that we can actually get become a more dominant force
within the market. And it's fascinating because as
consumers, we're the ones who who will benefit.
Yeah. And.
We've had loved Universal Approach when they were building

(01:20:25):
Velocicoaster because it meant that it's like they everyone in
the park going like, oh, you're building something.
And they started like, no, we'renot building anything.
It's like you can see, you can see like top hat off this
attraction. And it's like, no, we're not
building anything. Nothing's nothing's happening.
And then like 3 months, six months when everyone.
Was nothing to see here. Nothing to see.

(01:20:47):
Oh, by the way, go roller coaster.
Which was the opposite to what they did with had grids and it
worked well because people couldget excited.
People could think about what it's going to be.
And it's my Disney have always had that other way around
because it's always been. I remember when they announced
like Toy Story Land and it's like you announced a bit three
years later, there's the attraction.
So you've had this different level of concepts are where when

(01:21:10):
we spoke to Russ on Monday, and it'll be in the next podcast,
the we spoke about the difference between the concepts
are and what you get at the end of it, not the 16 different
variations. Because I remember seeing like
lots of concept of the SpaceshipEarth lounge.
Obviously we didn't see the $179firework package, but it's,

(01:21:33):
yeah, there should have been a many, but it's one, it's one of
those things that actually Disney need to focus, I think,
on what they do best. And that's storytelling that
there always has been. And I think even we we don't, we
don't need more lounges. We don't need more lounges that
cost $200 for a fee that that's not.
And I'm so concerned about what we're going to do.

(01:21:54):
Pirates Lounge later this year. Even at a basic level right, the
the, the aspect of an immersive theme park experience.
And if we hung back to to pre COVID magic Kingdom like this is
the base that me and Robin will always come back to is and it
was the same Bollywood studios is on on street actors and

(01:22:18):
performers created an atmospherein those parks that made you
feel part of an immersive houndscape.
And whether that was the trolleyshow with the dancers in the
morning who would step off and come and chat with you, the,
the, the characters on Main Street, the actors in

(01:22:40):
Fantasyland, the, the Hollywood studios performers, you know,
they, they brought, they elevated that experience and
made it more of an immersive experience.
You know, they brought characters to life in that part
of the park. Now when you're there, you pass
through those places as if it's just static.

(01:23:02):
There's no immersion there in most of that anymore.
And when Universal have come along with something that is
hugely immersive in multiple lands with characters and
animatronics, Disney need to bring more of that back because
that's what they've lost in thisdrive.
This. Drive element of Disney World to
become quite focused it feels onon revenue.

(01:23:28):
How can we how can we extract money from our guests by it's.
A little bit like when. They get a lounge.
For cocktail, will feed them, will feed them a $20 charcuterie
board. You know, it's like, it feels
like that's what they think is the experience they should be
giving. And actually, I think it is
more, it's more basic storytelling and immersion of
the of the place they're in. That's a brilliant point, Simon.

(01:23:52):
And I would also add in the factthat it should be for everyone.
It's it's not just for those whowill pay extra for an after
hours so that you get some of that character interaction or
anything like that. It's for all.
And I think that's the bit that they've lost sight on.
And I'm totally, but I totally agree wholeheartedly with what

(01:24:16):
you said there. And those are the actors and
performers. They transcended the
generations, right? It didn't matter whether you
were a 5 year old kid or you were a 75 year old, that they
engage with you and speak to youand make you part of that, that
which you're in and that world in character.

(01:24:37):
You feel like you're engaging with somebody on Main Street USA
and that for that not to be there is is, yeah.
But that's the even just the most basic of immersion that
they should definitely bring back because I think they've
even lost some of that characterization across Batu as
well. But you don't see the same

(01:24:58):
performers. Just yes, you see that the
characters and yes, you know, there are those those key
characters that they bring in atcertain points, but it's just
that little bit of engagement that you want from from a person
to make you feel just that little bit more immerse.
See, I love this is probably good segue into next Wednesday's

(01:25:20):
show where we're talking about gripes at Walt Disney World.
So. So I don't start, I don't.
Start There's a reason. There's a reason we're at
Disneyland this year. That's all.
But also, but also it's more about what have guests done
wrong as well. What, what, what mistakes have
you made on holiday? How from the many trips you've

(01:25:42):
you've booked and you think of like, actually, I've made a few
mistakes. You're over there.
Whether that's you've spent moremoney on tickets than you should
have, you've missed for dining reservations turned up at the
wrong time, but something extra that you didn't realize was
this. And but I'm looking forward to
that show. It's going to be quite
interesting. So, and it follows on from hope.

(01:26:03):
We've just been talking about gripes and things we'd like to
improve at Disney World because I think we, I think we could
spend quite a bit of time just thinking like, how could we
improve and just experiences at Disney And there are so many
different immersive places at Disney World.
You just sometimes you have to actually take that moment to
look around you because it's so easy to be in a park on your

(01:26:25):
phone looking for the next sort of like right or fast pass or
dining reservation or just taking a photo.
You just like actually don't take the moment to take it where
you actually are. So I want to say a huge thank
you to everyone for joining us stuff those in the chat and also
for everyone on screen. So we did announce that we do

(01:26:45):
have a new show out on the 15th of July.
It was weird thinking that we'renearly at the 15th of July.
It's only next week. Yeah, quite bizarre, isn't?
It yeah. So we will be, that'll be the
show with Russ when we talk about Epic Universe and even if
there's not many spoilers in it.So even if you have a trip
planned, give it a listen. It's something that I'd highly
recommend. And it convinced John to book a

(01:27:08):
trip. So I do we always have that
warning and we most of our shows.
Costume money I think as well. I think the other thing to bear
in mind is actually I've got thepaper that I had from the the
recording and it's one of those shows that you end up making
notes about because because of his experience.

(01:27:30):
And it'll guide you and hopefully make because you've
only got that one day in which to get the most out the the
whole experience. It will hopefully sort of direct
you and think, yeah, this is actually manageable.
And it I've got to say, it twisted me into pressing the
button and I actually have a plan for the dead as a result,

(01:27:55):
but as a result of the podcast. And that's how informative it
was. And I think that's that's really
where, you know, if you go, go ask it with a bit of paper pen
and a bit of paper and just makea few notes.
I even think John, we are, we are going to go to Universal in
Hollywood in on our next trip. Oh wow.
And that that has a Super Nintendo Land there as well.

(01:28:17):
So we are and we, I have not been to universal par for quite
some time. So it's pretty interesting.
No, we, we haven't. And I think this has tipped me
over the edge, but also because because we're not paying for
four people and this is a big saver for us.
It's only tools. But, but Arlson and I, I

(01:28:41):
actually, I want to go back to Universal Studios and just see,
go and explore the things that we've not, we've not done Men in
Black, we've not done ET for so many years.
And it's just like, let's go anddo, let's go and do all that
stuff as well. So yeah, it really is.
It's a brilliant opportunity. I've been, I think I'm going to,

(01:29:01):
I'm going to listen along to theshow and I'm sure my name's Trip
will be an epic universe will beadded into the.
Yeah. Yeah, it's easily done.
But yeah, I want to say huge thank you and you can find
everything we do here, the GreatBritish Mickey Waffle.
If you watch on YouTube, grab your phone, scan the QR code on
screen, or if you listen on the podcast, just go on to GB

(01:29:23):
mickeywaffle.com. You've got everything we do
here. So from our Wednesday live shows
to our podcasts and everything, everything we do on socials,
we're at GB Mickey Waffle on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok.
So the summer is pretty much upon us and there'll be a few
podcasts that will be out because as you could probably
tell by bidding at the beginningof the show, but a few of us

(01:29:45):
aren't going to be around in theUK.
Yeah, so. It's going to be interesting.
We might be going live from someparks, but we'll, we will let
you know and update our and sortof our Facebook community and on
social media what we're and. Then also just add in as well,
right? Because I had a really spooky
moment. I was, I was actually shopping

(01:30:05):
in Scarborough yesterday and a family who were in town, dad was
wearing a Walt Disney World T-shirt and they walked past me
and it was that moment where should be we know you and they
were pointing. It was really, it was one of the
moments that I've never ever experienced in all the time I

(01:30:28):
was doing this. Either they ninja watch or they
listen to the podcast or watch the podcast, but they recognise
the face and I'm like, Oh my word, this is quite, I'm not
going to turn around and say, yeah, OK, it's me.
But if you are in Florida over the summer and you see any of us
or you're in Disneyland and you see Robin and Simon, we're quite

(01:30:53):
polite. People just turn around and say
it is it is you, isn't it? Because obviously that would be
a most lovely thing. And actually even last last year
it happened a few, it happened afew times on our trip.
And you know, just just make thejust make the epic.
Just are you a waffler? And if somebody looks at you as

(01:31:16):
if you're stupid, then obviouslyit's not us.
And if we are, we'd be delightedto meet you.
And I think that's the only thing is it's been, it was a
lovely feeling yesterday that what we do in, in the various
guises that we do it, you get people that are actually in my
hometown where you get recognised and just like, well,

(01:31:39):
this isn't quite a spooky moment.
There you go. If we're in Florida and you see
us, please just yeah, give it, give it a shout.
Yeah, and also follow us on Instagram because to be honest,
most of our trips I tend to poston there.
So you can Instagram still us and come and find us.
That is true. We're there for 16 nights,

(01:31:59):
John's there for three weeks. Claire's there for just
everything. About. 2 1/2 weeks.
So we'll have a pretty much mostof August, which is quite, I'm
not sure how we're going to record shows, but who knows
what's going to happen so. We'll work it out.
Work it out. We'll do something, we'll do
something. I've just got visions at first,
like recording a live podcast ata local bar somewhere in Disney.

(01:32:22):
I think that would be great idea.
Yeah, I think I'd be really good.
For maybe not Trader Sam's, it might be a bit loud.
Yeah, just opportunities endless.
Yeah, so and we will see. The cheek though, the cheek
though, of even suggesting that you're going to record from a
bar and I won't be there with you, that's an absolute
disappointment. Simon, what we'll do, we'll set
up a link. Yeah, we'll get you on the leg.

(01:32:47):
That's perfect. I'm there.
You're. With us, you're with us.
I'll buy you a drink if you're but eventually.
Yeah, I think. Drink it for him.
Yeah, I think there's just one thing left to say, and we'll see
you real soon. So you're saying real soon?

(01:33:15):
I don't know how it's going to do this my way.
I can feel it in the. Air, here I go.