Ep 37: The Science Of Cannabinoid Extraction & Formulation. An interview w/ Greg Arias & Jason Showard, Co-founders of Concentrated Science

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ronjini Joshua (00:12):
Sheldon, thank you so much for introducing us
to these guys from concentratedscience. We got a little bit
more into the world of scienceand extraction from a chemical
engineering standpoint, which iskind of mind blowing. Yeah. It's
interesting, complicated,excited. At the same time. The
guys were in their closets, butit turned out really. But yeah,

(00:38):
this was a really coolconversation just about
extraction and how people arewhite labeling stuff and how
people can create new productsand, and the chemical
engineering that goes into thislike kind of new world of
possibilities with cannabis.

Sheldon (00:52):
I always wondered how people were just coming up with
new products. But these are theguys is the ones who go, yeah,
this

is the guy.
Hello, today we're here talkingto the co founders of
concentrated science Gregoryareas, and Jason showered. Hi,
guys, how are you? Hey, how areyou? Good. So we're gonna get

(01:18):
into a deep technicalconversation about extraction.
Yes,

Jason Showard (01:22):
that's our favorite con. Okay, cool.

But first, we always start most of the Well,
most all of the interviews witha quick background of everyone.
So we like to hear how you whatyou were doing pre cannabis and
how you decided to get into thecannabis industry like how you
decided to like go full force.
So whoever wants to start, Ithink, yeah, let's get let's

(01:45):
start there. We lost Greg for amoment here.

Gregory Arias (01:50):
Sorry, I got I got I told this. I told this guy
we were. I had a meeting rightnow. But let me let me. Let me
see if I can.

Sheldon (01:58):
Actually, this is this is actually a good quick break.
Because there are two of you.
This will be the first time thatwe might have to ask like,
please give detailed answers,but also be mindful of sharing
space and making sure we get asmuch detail as possible, but not
too much time. Yeah,

absolutely. Yeah.
Greg and I talked a little bitabout that beforehand. I said,
Hey, man, I don't want to runall over you because I tend to
do that. So let's, uh, wechatted about

about all that.
And can you also Greg, can youturn your camera or your phone?
Whatever it is. Rotate it. Yeah.
So it's Lance. That make thatmakes it that way. It'll be like
full screen.

I gotta readjust the clamps. Hold on. It's all
about the clamping. It's allabout the proper clamping. Let's
Oh, I got Oh, I got to turnthat. My

My favorite part about this is that it's a ring
clamp lab stand that's beingused. Oh, for the lab.

Yes. There we go. We see that better?

Sheldon (02:59):
Raise

up, raise it up.

Okay, let me let's see if I can.

Sheldon (03:05):
Yeah, raise the clamps.

You might want.
I don't think we need to do alittle video cutting. Oh, you
didn't? Yeah,

no, I was kind of I was like, they're doing zoom
for a reason. But I didn't thinkit was gonna be like actual, an
actual reason. Yeah, actualreason. Like, you're just gonna
do zoom audio is silly, butthat's okay. Let's go right
there. Yeah, all right. Okay.
All right. Cool. We'll

just cut that part out. Um, so let's let's
dive into your backgrounds.

Sheldon (03:34):
For Ben. Let's just do it again. And Troy.

Okay, hello.
We're here today with the cofounders of concentrated science
Gregory Arias , and JasonShoward. Hi, guys. Nice to see
you. Hey, good. Good, good. And,and today, we're going to be
diving into the world ofextraction. So I'm very excited
about talking about all thedifferent elements here. But
before we get started, we'd liketo start with a little

(04:01):
background of how people andwhat people were doing before
they did cannabis and then howyou guys decided to take the
full leap into the cannabisindustry. So whichever one of
you want to speak first, let'sget going.

Greg's a little more pertinent than i to the
whole world here. So let's goahead Greg.

Yeah, but But you're the one that brought me
here so well, I guess that isthat's a good that's a good
that's a good reason. Goodenough reason. I started How
would that be ouch these sevenyears ago,
I graduated from Arizona statewith my Master's in chemical

(04:43):
engineering. So I always had a,you know, rigorous scientific
need to figure things out inchemical field at least. I
started right after college Istarted to work in a distillery
a liquor distillery so I wasmaking vodka, gin rum, whiskey

(05:03):
standard and also distillery inPhoenix, Arizona, that for about
five years, then Jason called meup. This was limiting startling
backtrack for a second I took alittle sidestep while I was in
the distillery, I was I gotintroduced to the cannabis world
through supercriticalextraction. So that's a whole

(05:24):
whole other field whole otheranimal. But I had dabbled in the
field for about about half ayear there in Arizona, and it
was still very, you know, veryregulated, very difficult to
get. make ends meet with the labthere. So that was a flash in
the pan sort of thing. And thenJason and I had kept in contact

(05:47):
over over the years we hadoriginally met through Burning
Man 2015. coming for 14 2015I'm, so it's all it's all a
blur.

Sheldon (06:00):
extraction.

But yeah, so we have known each other for about
four years prior for five yearsprior to me moving out here.
Jason had been working in thefield for a couple years, I
won't get too much into SEO,explain his Of course, but then
he called me up. I moved outhere in July 2019. And had

(06:28):
helped Jason with research inthe field of pesticide
remediation, things like that.
terpene creation and terpeneflavor creation, and just
general hard, hard science toback up his his mechanical
expertise. So that's where wekind of met in the middle. And

(06:49):
that's where we've always seeneye to eye is I start, I start
things in the lab, we'll youknow, start things together. But
then I'll bring it from the laband then he'll take and blow it
up.

So when you say chemical engineering, just real
quick going back to yourbackground, how I like to
explore the different jobs youcan have in this industry. So
like when you say chemicalengineering, what exactly does
that mean? Like? What are thetypes of things a chemical
engineer would do in thecannabis industry?

So I'm in the cannabis industry and basically
any and in

liquor I guess,

to be to give a broad sense of what chemical
engineering is, it's, they weregiven it's, it's slightly a
little more focused thanmechanical engineering.
Mechanical Engineering literallygoes into any any direction, any
field, you can go and pick it's,I believe in college, we would
call it the, the slot of theengineering world for lack of
better words, because they couldjust make it just be picked up

(07:50):
by anybody at any time. And justgo and I guess I guess I'm
making planes now. I guess we'remaking computer chips now. It's
just what we do. But chemicalengineers typically are they
more aligned with the foodindustry? That's that's their
main broad use food. And thenunfortunately, and I didn't want
to forget into this this is whyI was always kind of leaning

(08:11):
towards laboratory science andthings. It's the weapons
industry, though the weaponschemical, chemical warfare
bombs, isn't that and I don'tknow. Yeah, that obviously, but
but the food industry is wherewe end up I remember in that,
right out of college, a lot ofjobs open up in the Midwest,

(08:32):
because they want engineers tojust make very simple
ingredients, you know, sugar,like figure out how to make how
to dissolve sugar or extractsugar properly, and then do it
for the entire country doing forthe entire world. So it's, it's,
it's, it's more or lessextrapolation a very simple lab
scale projects, like I said, andbring it to the large scale, but

(08:56):
as far as in the cannabis realm,it's, it's, it's exactly the
same thing. Really, it's takingthe principles that we know,
concentration extraction, whattypes of chemicals are good or
best for extraction, and thengiving it either you yourself or

(09:16):
giving it to a team of engineersto expand that and you know, do
it tenfold? 1000 volt millioncalled scale Oh, yeah, exactly.
Exactly. scale it up. Yep. So Soit's, it's, it's nice to have
Jason being the already doingthings on scale all the time. He

(09:38):
was, you know, being inproduction. He's used to
production scale things. It'skind of funny how they all kind
of meet in the middle. They'reall they're all the same terms.
We use the same terminology alot in the end where he started
versus where I started. So it'sit's it's fun that it's it's all
it's all we're all just tryingto produce things. We're we're
both just creators at heart, Ithink. What is

Sheldon (09:59):
it that you're doing before

So for me, I was kind of all over the place, I
went to school for soundengineering. And then you know,
it's a lot of a lot of knobtwists and, and similar
situations to what you got goingon in a lab. But I've always
kind of been the get it doneguy. And you know if something
needed to happen, I'm the guythat figured out how to make it

(10:22):
happen and make it happen atscale. So I got asked, I was
actually working in televisionand film art department, leading
up to my foray into extraction,which had nothing to do with
extraction or audio engineering.
And now it's kind of come fullcircle to hosting an extraction
podcast using the audio skills.

(10:44):
So basically, yeah, what I had afriend that was putting together
an ethanol extraction lab, whenethanol was new on the scene to
extraction asked me to help outfrom more of a nuts and bolts
angle, which is typically what Iam the go to guy for. And then
as things started to cometogether, everybody realized

(11:04):
that it was a lot moretechnical, from a physics
standpoint, and from a nuts andbolts standpoint, then then it
was really from the scientificstandpoint, it wasn't, it wasn't
rocket science. I mean, it wasstill very, very scientific, but
it was something that I managedto pick up. And since I knew
how, really all the nuts andbolts of the equipment worked, I

(11:25):
decided to stick around and thenreally make it my focus to, to
learn the science side ofthings. And then Greg and I
started talking more and moreabout that. So I've gotten kind
of a crash course in, in, inchemistry, for cannabis from
Greg, while while reallyunderstanding the nuts and bolts
side of the business and, andthe production side, when it

(11:47):
comes to the sound and thepromotional things with the

Sheldon (11:51):
podcast, what a perfect pairing. What really

what made you want to get into cannabis,
though,

I have always been a fan. It it, there was a
period of a few years wherethings started to get so strong.
And that I was actually a littlebit less interested in it than I
was in my younger years. Andrealizing that we had control
over that and could really kindof, you know, design the effects

(12:25):
that it was going to have. And,you know, not making it as
strong as humanly possible,maybe the right way to go,
especially for myself. So justthe the ability to have control
over that just fascinated mefrom the standpoint of what we
could do in the lab and notnecessarily having you know, you
don't go to a bar in order,what's the strongest booze you
got behind the bar? It's, youknow, craft craft made. So I

(12:49):
realized that we had controlover that. And I was really
fascinated by so are you guysgetting

into the business of like designer weed?

We liked it, we always have been floating that
just This is Jason I mean, we wewant to make those really nice
products for you know, peoplethat are paying Atlanta like not
not for you know, just to besnooty about it. But people that
really care about it, like we,you know, and it's it's a
difficult line to tread, ofcourse, because the more you you

(13:17):
pigeonhole yourself into being acraft person, you're going to
cut it into the very few centerof people that do care like us.
And it's just, we want to dothat, you know, eventually,
maybe maybe when we, you know,after we're retired and
everything, we've got a nicelittle, you know, plot of land
in Mexico or something.

On the flip side of that, I would say that we we
have the ability as cannabis labfolks in general to really
influence the direction thisgoes. And right now the
direction that it's gone is howcan we make it as strong as
possible? And really, that'sjust, is that really what people
want? Yeah, I mean, for myself,it's not. So I think that the,

(13:58):
you know, the more of thesethings that we introduce, or the
more of these things that we canwork on, as a an industry, it
really, potentially allows forus to change the narrative from
how strong Can I make it to, youknow, how can I actually affect
how this works with my ownbiology?

Well, I like that you brought that up, like
what is going on with this trendof like, what is the most
highest highest THC contentpossible? And like, there's all
these brands that are coming outthat are really, really, really
focused on that? Why do youthink that's happening?

I personally think that much like the liquor
industry, we had gotten once weget to a point where the
equipment has caught up to theindustry and you get 99.9% pure,
there's always the people likeOkay, how about 99.99 you know,
let's make it even more. Let'sget those margins up. Let's keep

(14:56):
going. Let's get stronger. Let'sget more and we can cut it more
we can get More we can get morewe can get more but then it's
like, it's almost just like it'sa diminishing return after a
certain point, because what'sthat extra point nine, nine, you
don't get to notice it afterpoint. I think I think we're in
sort of the kid in a candy storephase, if you will. And just
just like alcohol, I mean, thatthere's a point. I mean, we've
we've had things like everclearfor a long time. Yeah. But

(15:19):
again, like Jason said,

it's not we don't go around drinking
everclear Yeah.

The strongest thing I need to black out right
now. It's like, no, there's alittle bit more nuance to it.
And I think that right now,because we are in the in the
cutting edge, we are in theforefront, we are seeing that
it's just people are, aretesting their lives, testing the
limits of the consciousness, soto speak as a whole. And what

(15:44):
what will you know, I guessmaybe college years is better
word, we're gonna call it yearsof cannabis. experimentation
again, so and again, we'll getto the point where it's like,
okay, the guy made the bestmachine that guy's making
99.99999. Where you get where weget 100? What do we do from

(16:08):
that?

I'd like to add to that, though, like that.
We're certainly not againstisolation and purifying
compounds. I love the idea of99.9999%. Yeah, but now we can
take these different compoundsand reformulate them into a mix
that works well for differentpeople's biology. So that's the
part that's interesting to me,you know, there's, every day

(16:31):
there's a new letter tacked onto THC, this or that. And so,
you know, there's all thesedifferent compounds that as as
now that we're not underprohibition, we're being able to
research and identify and thensee how they affect us. So being
able to remix all of thesethings together to work for
various different people. Somepeople want the highest THC

(16:52):
possible, and that's okay. But,you know, having that be the
exposure that someone new tocannabis gets, I think is a very
dangerous thing, and is going toreject a lot of people that are
interested in and that mayotherwise be benefited by.

Right. Yeah, I mean, that that is a little
dangerous to play with,especially when since there's so
much lack of knowledge. Rightnow. I mean, we're talking to a
lot of people about educatingthe market. And so without that
education, how can you reallylike why would you go to the
worst, or the highest levelpossible if you haven't even
like taking the baby steps yet?

Sheldon (17:27):
Yeah, yeah. So you to work, obviously, with the
chemical side of cannabis. Whatother qualities should people be
talking about outside of CBD,THC of the plant? Oh, man,

t CBM CB as

every day, there's another one that comes
out, which is fantastic. Andreally cool. Love it another
number? Yeah. But, you know, Ithink, you know, the, the term
entourage effect is getting alittle bit of backlash these
days, where it was all thebuzzword for a while, yeah, but
there's a lot of other thingsthat influence and drive the
experience that you know, theterpenes and the various

(18:06):
terpenes that will make you feela different ways and kind of
shaped the higher that you get,or the, you know, the beneficial
aspects of it as well. So that,you know, I think CBN is about
to be real big and hit themarket pretty hard for its
ability to affect sleep. Andthere's just there's all kinds

(18:27):
of cool stuff that people arelearning every day, that we're
all learning every day. Andthat's it's just an exciting
thing to be part of. I mean,Greg, do you have something to
add on there?

Yeah, I was gonna say, Jason, you you always I
forgot what it was, it was itwas a sugar, a sugar mighty, I
think is what you pulled off tome one one day it's about a
bioavailability is what I'vebeen been looking into as well.
It's it's allowing moreefficient absorption and
direction for what she wants todo with those cannabinoids. So

(18:58):
taking taking a certain type ofcarrier oil carrier substance
and binding it or just combiningit with the cannabinoids to
properly get it to the rightsite in your body or absorbed
better, more efficiently to dothe action properly. So there's

(19:21):
multiple different ways 1000s ofdifferent ways you could go with
the same idea of cannabinoidusage, but there's the the new
fields that are showing up arejust are just fascinating from
the, you know, synthetic side tothe more natural sides to you
know, terpene correlations, it'sit's it's all there and I think

(19:43):
that there is plenty of researchto be done still, and especially
more than anything I wasactually just reading because
I'm doing a side projects,speaking on bioavailability that
the FDA currently doesn'trecognize Any CBD products
except separate one over thecounter drug as a drug, but

(20:06):
we're getting, it's just one ofthose things that again,
education, knowing people,knowing people are getting safe
products from a safe place, andthat they're dosed properly by,
you know, educated andknowledgeable people, or at
least regulated and known thatthese things can be given, given

(20:27):
with with a clear conscience andtaken with a clear conscience.
So it's getting there. Andagain, I bet that changing
people's minds about that, Iguess,

well, you were talking about bioavailability.
And, and a lot of times, wetalked to people who want to
talk about, you know,extraction, and this, I think
this goes for vitamins too, ingeneral, but like extraction
versus like, the full plantexperience, like how do you how
do you simulate an experiencelike that, if you're extracting,

(20:57):
and make, you know, what you'retalking about, make it make it
more, I don't know, wholesome,if that's the right word, with
an extraction versus like havinga plant available?

So my, my, my thought behind that, and I guess
it's more of an existentialquestion at this point, you
know, when you if you reassessif you if you take a part of
ship, and reassemble it exactlythe same configuration, but
you're missing a bolt, is it thesame ship. So it's one of those
things but my hate my my thoughtalways was, and this this was

(21:33):
from ASU, actually, they havethe entire engineering and
science side over there. But oneof the places I studied is the
bio design Institute, and it waslooking towards nature for
solutions to our problems. Sobasically modeling what nature
already did, because as far asI'm concerned, nature already

(21:53):
perfected it, we enjoy its God.
And nature isn't perfect, butit's perfecting it, it's always
perfecting it, it's always goingto be making the better thing as
we go along. So if you take theextract from nature, and from a
strict chemical sense, goingback to the boat analogy
earlier, if you take, if youtake the distillate out of the
plant concentrated and then youcan control it control the way

(22:16):
that you deliver it, control theway that you and take it
whatever way it is. But you takethe exact chemical structures
that were in the plan, say youwere able to molecule by
molecule take and put that backtogether? Would you still have
the same plant? I guess thequestion, would you would it
still be wholesome, and that'swhere I figure, I think that we
have a bit of that. ChaseJackson, I have that sort of

(22:42):
chase to get back to that like,like, bring it out, and like
take it all apart and put itback in, you know, like lay
light, like really, likereassemble it from the ground up
in the way that we imagine it.

Right. And I

think that that's a really interesting approach.
But also, something I would addto that is, you know, if you're
talking about a full spectrum,or whole plant experience,
that's going to give you thatexperience that's going to
provide those benefits, it'sgoing to provide those
disadvantages, you know, it'sgoing to have its that is what
it's going to be. But that thatfull experience isn't

(23:20):
necessarily what's best forvarious things that you're
trying to treat withcannabinoids, especially from a
medical standpoint. So you know,where if, if you're trying to
affect your sleep specificallyand want to sleep better at
night, and you want to go afterCBN, the amount of CBN that
really exists in a plant isgoing to be very low. So you

(23:42):
know, we have by by being ableto extract these things and
isolate these things, we havethe ability to really kind of
tailor what effect you're tryingto go after. Whereas if you just
go for the full plant, thenyou're going to be stuck with
whatever that strain that you'rethat you're consuming is and
what its effects are. So there'sdefinitely something to be said

(24:03):
for the full plant experience.
But, you know, as we do moreresearch and learn more about
what the various cannabinoidscan do, we have the ability to
tailor that a little bit more towhat you're looking for.

So yeah, so Okay, that that kind of plays
into my vitamin question, butI'm gonna go back a little bit
and just kind of okay, so asyou're doing these extractions,
and who exactly are you guysworking for? So like, what, what
is where do you play in thechain of events when working

(24:35):
with companies or, or whoeveryou're working for, like, what
where do you guys live?

Basically, you know, if somebody is trying to
accomplish a thing, that they'retrying to figure out how to do,
be it, isolating certaincompounds that are found in the
plant be isolating terpenes viaYou know, whatever it is that
they're after. That's somethingthat Greg is very good at

(25:06):
working with them at to developa process when it comes to that.
And then once we kind of nail iton a lab scale, then it's how do
we make this larger and moreefficient, so that we can do it
on a larger scale. So we kind ofwork very closely hand in hand
in that respect, you know, I'm,I'm definitely no stranger to
sticking around the lab. But ButI'm more of a wall to bounce

(25:29):
ideas off of, and to kind ofchat with and, and I learned
something every time I work withthem in the lab, and then we'll
take that and make it larger fora company that's interested in
doing, you know, somethingtailored on a larger scale.

So you're working with, like, essentially
brands that want to create somekind of custom experience or
product. Yeah, okay. And whatwhat does that usually look
like? Is it like, do you guyshave a specialty where you work
in like, you know, I don't know,beauty or edibles or what like,
what where do you guys work inthat aspect? Or does it really

(26:02):
matter?

Yeah, so So currently, I'm helping a
formulation for a mutual friendof ours company high on nature.
So it's just it's just labformulations, but for the most
part, I mean, it's it's, we, wemove where we need where we're
needed, where that's that's the,you know, I guess the beauty of
consulting freelance, as Yeah, Inever thought I'd be able to say

(26:26):
but freelance chemistry, it's soweird. firms that I always,
like, thrown around together.
And it's a that never made senseto me, because I was like I
said, You needed like a homebase, a lab or something like
that. But it's like, we we goand we provide solutions to
people in their lab. It's likewe get with what's working here
is not going to necessarily workin Colorado. For instance, one

(26:48):
one thing that we we just wentto a visit a friend of Jason's
lab up in Denver area. was whatwas it called? Flora bio?
Flora Flora bio. That's right.
Yeah. Shout out to Mike. Mike.
Yeah, shout out to my Yeah.

All the marketing people are gonna come
after you guys, you guys are theworst PR. You don't know. We
don't know for a lot to say anyof these names, but we're just
gonna throw them out.

Michael, take my PR nightmare

represent the mean, we're helping, we want to
help we want everybody to gettogether. I mean, the only way
that we're going to get this tosolve all these problems solve
is, is through collaboration,really. And I mean, I think that
being able to go to other placesand see how other people are
doing it, it really gives us notnot necessarily like in, you

(27:44):
know, malicious insiderinformation that we're just
going to go ahead and take andspread and proliferate to people
but allows us to extract theright things that we need from
from people and say, Hey, thisis what we've seen over here,
right? Maybe a few and then andthen trade you know, it's it's

(28:07):
all this what we're workingtowards the same goal, right?
It's just it's just differentdifferent boats in a different
kind of keep using boats got toget up different to what do we
got? We got the best best nowlike what Kathy, it's got to be
something better than that.
There's nothing that what do wehave to do?

Sheldon (28:32):
The question, what are we need to get above maybe need
to get above? Now, what are someof the hurdles that you guys
have encountered in doing yourresearch in getting deeper into
extraction?

Um, things don't always scale the way that you
expect them to, you know, you'llfind something at lab scale and
be like, Great. Now let's makeit bigger. And then it just
flows out a linear, a linearconversion situation. Yeah, you
have to, you run into newhurdles as you try to make
something bigger. And then asyou try to make that bigger

(29:08):
thing bigger yet again, there'salways going to be differences.
You know, there's so much in theway of thermodynamics at play
here, where we're, we're workingwith temperatures and times that
it takes to get to certaintemperatures and, and vacuums
and pressures and all thesedifferent things that at a small
scale and things get therequickly. Great. That's how it

(29:29):
works when they get therequickly. But at a larger scale.
They don't get there that fast.
Or if if they don't now we haveto figure out a solution to get
them there that fast. So there'sjust there's a lot of things
that are at play there when itcomes to scale, I think is one
of the biggest hurdles. Peoplethink it's gonna be easy. And
it's never that easy. There'sbeen many times where, where
we've been asked about somethingand we'll say, yeah, we can help

(29:49):
you with that. And thensomebody's like, Oh, no, you
know, we got this. We already doit at this scale. And then days
later, we get the phone calls.
Hey, can you guys come overafter

It's like eating up three bean burritos instead
of just one bean burrito. You

know, that is the best you can apply to that ever.
Yes. 100%

I I'm a bean burrito aficionados that speak
so you know, you appreciatethat,

but he isn't evenly distributed, you're still
frozen,

you're gonna get a pocket in between it's, it's
just the whole nightmare. That'slike just just grilling. This
puts your bean burrito on the onthe plate your your tortilla
plate, because everybody has atortilla plate anyway.

Nobody wants a cold center for a canal.

No, no, exactly.
Okay, so you're talking aboutscalability and how there's so
different, like, you know,aspects to that. And we talked
about in our conversationbefore, about sustainability as
well, and how important that is,and what the major players are
in that whole concept. Can youtalk about that a little bit?
And as brands are, you know, nowproducing more and more, you

(30:56):
know, how, how can they staysustainable? What, what are the
methods that are the bestpractices that they need to be
looking at for that?

I think, Oh, go ahead, Greg.

Oh, yeah, no, I was gonna say the main, the main
that I see is just proper,proper handling of solvents, is
making sure that you'rerecovering them efficiently, you
have the right tools in place tocontain them. If spills occur,
if there's some sort of, youknow, just general emergency

(31:29):
just anticipating that ifsomething goes wrong with a
solvent or something, somethingabout the solvent escapes,
because it's the most part, youknow, ethanol is relatively
harmless for, you know, for inthe right doses. But it's, it
can be dangerous, to just be letout into the environment at any

(31:50):
time and evaporated, contactwith with surface water,
anything like that. So just tomake sure that you can
efficiently and safely containthat. And not to mention fire
risk never done on top ofeverything else. That's I think
the main thing, and it's acouple along with that. To

(32:15):
maintain sustainability,recovery of solvent, not all not
only what's the word, not onlyholding on to solvent and
keeping it safely stored, butalso reuse of solvent. So yeah,
it's it's making sure thatyou're able to, because because
all the solvents that we use canbe recycled and reused for the
most part. So if you can takethat and reuse it multiple

(32:39):
times, then that's, that'sobviously the way to go and to
maintain sustainable production.

So yeah, I would also add to that, what you said,
basically, a re condensing andrecapturing and reuse is huge.
But inevitably, we're going togenerate waste at night with
with this business coming from ablack market originally, into a
gray market now, now into thelight. A lot of the

(33:04):
infrastructure wasn't justreadily available right there in
the beginning of all this todeal with the waste. So
responsibly, dealing with wasteis something that that I think,
is not looked at, with as muchscrutiny as it should be. And
there's a lot of companies outthere that can do that. We work
with Pacific resource recoveryout of LA, who is awesome. And

(33:29):
they have a bunch of folks thatwork directly with cannabis
producers that will collecttheir waste materials and bring
them to prr. So you've got like,specialized waste solutions out
of San Diego is one and then upnorth guy aka and in the Bay
Area and up north are greatcompanies that will come to your

(33:53):
facility, collect your waste,and then bring them to a place
to be responsibly disposed of.
And a lot of that stuff they canrecycle, which is great.

Yeah, I mean, this this conversation we
actually had earlier today wason this waste topic, which I
think is such a I don't thinkpeople probably don't, that's
not the first thing you thinklike, oh, we're gonna have to
responsibly get rid of thiswaste because it you know,
presumably, it's organic. So whycan't we just, you know,
composted or do something likethat. So can you talk a little

(34:22):
bit more about the waste issuesand maybe how they play into not
just sustainability, but justlike, you know, environment and
like things that need to beconsidered when doing that.

Basically, I mean, if you're doing let's say
you're doing ethanol extraction,the typical way that you're
doing that is you are going tomill your biomass, you're gonna
put it in your bag, you're gonnafreeze that you're gonna put it
in a centrifuge, you know, pumpa bunch of ethanol into the
centrifuge, spin it around,agitate it, get all the oil off
of it. Now you're draining theoil off. Now you spin the
centrifuges just like yourwashing machine does to get as

(34:59):
much of that liquid out of thereas possible. And now you're left
with a bag that is pretty dry,but still has some residual
ethanol in it, when as soon asyou take that out of your
centrifuge, you now have a veryflammable, basically like sponge
type material that's got a bunchof ethanol and alcohol vapor in
there. Now originally thatwasn't really looked at as

(35:21):
something that we had to dealwith people would just stick it
next to event and blow it out ofthe room. Like, that's crazy. So
there's, you know, that is onesource of waste, which is
actually biomass that peopledon't really look at as waste,
there's a few different ways todeal with that. There's,
there's, you know, there's screwpresses, and palletizers, and
things like that, that willreally thoroughly get all of the

(35:44):
ethanol off of that biomass. Andthen it can be used for things
like compost, and for variousother things, fuels, whatever.
That's an expensive process. Noteverybody's going to do that
unless they're at mega scale.
And so then oftentimes, thatgets packed up into a drum and
sealed and then given to a wastedisposal company. So that's one

(36:10):
form of waste, they're anotherform of waste is not all of
your, all of your solvents thatare leftover, sometimes the
terpenes, you know, you can'tjust extract a bunch of terpenes
and dump them down the drain,because they're organic, like,
these are volatile compoundsafter they've been extracted. So
there's a lot of parts that, youknow, in small amounts in a

(36:33):
plant aren't a big deal. Butonce you've concentrated the
equivalent of, you know, atruckload of biomass into
something that's in a fivegallon bucket, now it's a
problem.

Yeah, I think I think that's like environment,
then environmental factors isnot it's not something that we
like, normally just come firstassociate ourselves with,
especially as a consumer or asan operator, like people who are
not growing or, or, orchemically doing anything with
the plant itself. Like, I thinkthat's something that we just
don't realize, like, that is anindustry consideration. And, and

(37:09):
I think it's something that's,you know, just like the farming
industry, or any other, youknow, organic industry,
agriculture, you know, it'ssomething that we have to factor
in or consider as one of thethings that people are going to
be looking at as this industrygets bigger. What do you guys
see as that? Yeah, go ahead,Greg.

Yeah, I was gonna just just add on to that. Yeah,
I was, I guess, education andfamiliarity with what you're
working with, yeah, real things.
For instance, with with whatJason's talking about with the
ethanol extraction, a commonsolvent added to the ethanol to
D nature is happening for thisjust for just for a broad

(37:51):
example. So heptane is no knowncontaminant. It's a known bio
accumulator. It's supposed to,it's I don't know if it's
proven, but studies have beenshowing that it does accumulate
over time in your own body, andit'll just, it just doesn't go
away. You know, it's it's one ofthose things that over time, you
know, the right now currently,we're just we're okay with it,

(38:11):
but you know, just keepsflashing on you a little bit at
a time a little bit at a time.
And especially, not justyourself, but the entire
environment, you've got a bigproblem after a certain time. So
it's just more than anything,really knowing where
everything's coming from. Isthis you know, is this what it
says? It is? Is that are thechemicals that you're getting?

(38:33):
And what what they are sayingthey're purporting to be? And
are you educated enough slashAre you are you willing enough
to take the time to learn aboutthe proper disposal of these
chemicals, like Jason said, withwith terpenes it's like, no
important down the drain atleast have if anything, if at
the bare minimum, have a drumwhere you can put your terpenes

(38:55):
that you aren't using and thentake them to your your local
waste disposal just just justmake sure that they don't get
out just make sure that theyaren't proliferate proliferate
it somewhere else, because it'snot good. It's none of those
none of those things need to bein that concentration out in the
environment like that. So it'sjust this carrying a little bit
you know,

do you guys offer like a level of best
practices when you're workingwith brands or companies or or
whoever you're working with? Doyou guys do any advice on on
that aspect?

Yeah, absolutely.
We don't want I mean, this isthis is all we got we got to get
this one world is for for nowand for for the foreseeable
future. And you you can't justif if one person does a better
thing, but you know, one personis not just doing it, it's easy
to let things slip through thecracks. So it's like you there's
there's a certain way to dothings the right way to do

(39:51):
things. So just where we atleast offer them like hey, you
gotta cautionary as much as wecan. We All right, educated, we
do care. And we want people tocontinue to operate a good,
safe, sustainable business,because that's that's the only
way that we're going to keepreaping the fruits of these
rewards that we have,

in our approach also like to answer your
question more directly is, isthat of the the full facility,
you know, we're not just thereto do a lab scale thing. We're
not just there to do a scale.
It's come in, look at what'sgoing on. Since we've been
around the block and seen somany different ways to do things
and done them. Hey, look, Ithink that you could use a

(40:35):
better waste disposal program,check it out, we open the
Rolodex up and have threedifferent companies we can
direct you to, you know, hey, Ithink that you could use a
better reactor vessel here.
These are your options forreactor vessels. These are all
the companies that make themthese are different price
ranges. Which way do you want togo? We can we can help make

(40:57):
whichever one of these work foryou. So it's not necessarily,
you know, a one size fits allsituation, but just having been
exposed and around the industryas much as we have. It's, we
know what the best, the bestsolution for you is, after we've
seen your operation.

Well, given that what what kind of trends are you
seeing right now? What arepeople asking for? What What
have you guys been, you know,getting requests for what's
going on, and in this extractionspace, what's exciting.

I mean, to start off, I'd say, when we first got
into it, it's kind of come fullcircle. Originally BHO or butane
hash oil was the way everythingstarted. That was how people
started just disposing of theirwaste product, which was the
trim, and realize that theycould make a concentrate that
actually have value. And thatwas exciting to everybody. So
there was wild west of just somereally bad practices and crazy,

(41:51):
crazy wild been out there doingopen blasting and unsafe
practices, whatever, but it wasan unregulated market. So that
happened, then butane got areally bad name, hydrocarbon
extraction and General co2 camealong and co2 was the you know,
the the way to do it with safematerials, using your process
and safe solvents. Although theywere at very high pressures,

(42:12):
they were not explosive orflammable. So and then enter
ethanol extraction and ethanolis fantastic at making
distillate or isolette. So withthat, you don't have the same
craft ability that you have whenyou're doing a butane extraction
or hydrocarbon extraction.
There's all kinds of differentgas mixes these days. So the
trend has been it went from BHOinto ethanol and everybody was

(42:37):
after distillates. And then itwas how do we mix terpene blends
into these distillates to makevape carts and all these stuff.
And then after the whole vapecrisis hit, and all the
confusion surrounding that itkind of circled back around to
the hydrocarbon side of things.
And that's where you're seeing alot of your craft concentrates

(42:58):
come out and a lot of these likereally, you know, less scalable,
but more more craft beer thanBudweiser. It's kind of the
trend where it's going thesedays. And you know i think it's
it's looking like that isstaying strong but it's also
coming back around to toisolating different

(43:19):
cannabinoids, oftentimes whichis done with ethanol and then
purification steps after that soit kind of depends on which
direction you're going

well Do you have any any trends that you're
seeing Greg

Yeah, no that's that seems to be pretty pretty
succinct summary it's it's uhit's it's cyclical like like the
fashion or anything like thatit's just you know, people I
don't know I don't want to saynecessarily scandals or no news
is bad news sort of thing that'smore or less you know, people I
would say just this may perhapsperhaps all the news has been

(43:55):
giving us a short attention spanor something but yeah, it's it
we had noticed huge decline andthen just now coming into the
tides it's just people wantpeople all the sudden wants on
distillate again, people don'tpeople do this, people do that.
And it's like, it's it's, it'sfollowing a lot of I guess trend
chasing and demands but yeah, doyou see now I guess forward

(44:17):
thinking yeah, the the the newones the the Delta the Delta 10
CBN CBG all of again all of yourput a number put a letter and
just go just go for just throw adart at the board you'll
probably heaven can have annoyedYeah. I think that that's an IF
and then that's going along withwhat Jason saying is that the

(44:38):
Crafty or more tuneable side soto speak, because then now you
can have you know, 70% CBN blend30% CBD blend for back pain or,
you know, just just just howeverwe want to do it to to really
tailor it to specific groups ofpeople at this point.

Well, good, good.

Well, one more thing that that is a bit of a
trend in the extraction spaceright now. Is conversions and
there's a big to do aboutwhether conversions are
acceptable whether they'reunacceptable how it falls under
DEA guidelines and the farm billand all this stuff it's big news
right now but it's basicallythere's there's the ability to

(45:18):
kind of Greg uses an analogy allthe time about molecular Legos
but basically reassemble CBDisolate that's been created on
mass scale with you knowcombines harvesting the stuff
and giant extraction processesto create the CBD isolate which
is the crystalline CBD powderand then take that and kind of

(45:42):
reassemble that a little bitinto delta eight, delta nine and
delta 10 so that is a big thing.
That's a trend right now andeverybody's looking for guidance
as to whether it's acceptable ornot. Well,

and that was actually the question I was
about to ask you is about Deltaeight like I've not I've not
really I don't I can't say Iknow a lot about Delta eight and
delta nine and all the numbersbut what is like why why has
that become such a big news itemand and and I hear a lot of

(46:17):
people in the cannabis industrythat are just so against it and
there's some people that areexcited to buy it. So what is
the big controversy there and islike, you know, I heard it's
like leave the legal form ofweed like is that really true
and what what is true? Whatisn't true?

This we're Go ahead. We're all looking for
guidance on that we don't knowfrom a legality standpoint.
Yeah, I mean, everybody wants toknow

we can we can speculate for sure because we we
went to that conference inDenver the CBD Expo in Denver
recently and yeah, I think thatthere is again just working
we're working pretty intimatelyin the space a lot a lot of
information and misinformationout there as this as is anything
anything on the cutting edge ofcourse people are going to be

(47:04):
afraid of it or people are goingto try and hype it up
unnecessarily there's going tobe just multiple different
directions people can spin itbecause of the current
uncertainty in the market. I dohave a feeling though that yeah,
it's good some Would you like toexplain maybe to explain a
little bit what Delta eight is?
Yes. Yeah, yeah.

From a chemical standpoint of yours Yeah,

absolutely. So um, delta delta H Delta nine THC
is the most known one, that'sthe one we extract from
cannabis, that's our that's oureverybody's favorite, you know,
the the standard Delta eight iswhat's called a structural
isomer meaning that the electronliterally one electron is in a

(47:47):
different position in the upperleft benzene ring, sorry,
cyclical hydrocarbon ring up atthe top. So it does slightly
different effects, both for ouranalytical equipment and in our
minds. So again, you can take a910 six, seven or more or less

(48:13):
commonly 12345 or six, but wejust started with the nine
because that's just the methodof convention that we had at the
time, but there's there'smultiple names for the same
exact molecule and two, just asa sidebar. CBD is also a
structural isomer of delta ninethey're they're the exact same
chemical formula same molecularweight, it's just the electrons

(48:34):
are moving around in differentplaces and it's just the DNR how
it is observed in space. Sothey'll say it has been
described as slightly a toneddown version of delta nine it's
a little less I guess,psychoactive if you will it's
not not as much of a high butyou do feel the the nicer like

(48:59):
relaxation the pain killing allthis all the things without
necessarily giving just you knowcompletely out there paranoid
and again Don't get me wrong ifyou try if you try to do it
you'll get there you know thoseproperly those those to yourself
those thing if you know yourselfknow your limits know your body

(49:20):
you're going to reach thepositive benefits of it but it's
it's it's more of a like like atoned down version just like I
always hear the term up for CBNfor instance, I always hear it
is the the dad the dad weedbecause it's usually found in
older like multicharts thisstuff that you'd find in your
dad's garage and after sittingthere for 20 years he forgot.

(49:44):
Just sleeping but I guess that'sit. I'm kind of hungry I guess
but

like it's like a Frankenstein of like, just like
you said letters and numbers andlike it just people are just
creating all kinds of crazyshit.

It's already there. It's already there. It's
like, like, it's alreadyexisting. It's just we're
finding and that's so cool.
Like, we're just now being ableto have the capacity and the
wherewithal and the the abilityto study that. And that's just
that's, that's great. I thinkthat that's just what we need
more of that is more tools inthe toolbox right

Sheldon (50:22):
now, how do you go about testing these new chemical
compounds? safely?

Can I throw one other Greg's kind of broken down
the science behind it, I think alot of what's going on in the
politics and the news and all ofthat stuff, I might be able to
speak to a little bit. Butbasically, the the cannabis
lobby is against it, usually,because it is a threat to D

(50:50):
nine, or delta nine THC, whichis the the standard, what we're
all used to when we talk aboutTHC. So that can cause you know,
it's a threat to their business.
And then as far as the legalityside of things, I guess I should
say, I'm I'm not a lawyer, but Imay play one on zoom. But I have
absolutely not a lawyer. Butbasically, what's going on is

(51:10):
with the Farm Bill, the farmbill in 2018, allowed for hemp
or hemp derived products to betransported across state lines,
which is really what set off thewhole CBD thing and blew things
up, allowed farmers to growgiant swaths of hemp, and then
turn that into CBD and move thatacross state lines in order to

(51:31):
to be able to have a nationwidemarket, as long as it was under
point 3% THC. So because ofthis, it's a bit of a loophole
in the farm bill that D eightcan be transported across state
lines and sold, falling underthat farm bill, we think. And

(51:52):
that's kind of where you'reseeing a lot of these states
that are not recreationallylegal for delta nine, seeing a
huge uptick in delta eight,because it falls underneath this
loophole in the bill now are,are they going to change that?
Nobody knows. Does that loopholeactually exist? Nobody is 100%

(52:15):
sure, but we're pretty sure thatit does. And so there's a lot of
business being done in thatsector because of this and
nobody really knows what theoutcome of this of it is. And
we're all looking for guidanceon it because it's a big part of
the industry right now.

Sheldon (52:33):
So hypothetically one could create a GMO patented seed
that only produces Delta eightTHC and sell that hypothetically
speaking that's true

Absolutely. Yeah, so it's it's it that's again
where we where we come in me mepersonally again to speak on the
political aspect of it it's it'sextremely frustrating to see
that this chemical that is it'sliterally identical literally
identical to one another and oneis legal one is not one time is

(53:08):
this one's not this one is thisit's just it's the same

I do like these these kind of trends impact the
overall market.

Oh, huge. I mean, saying Yeah, the D nine market
is is very concerned about theirmarket share Yeah, lost to delta
eight but I would say themajority of the issue here is is
I guess more on the fact thatthe biggest places we're seeing
it are places that have deniedbanned or are or only medically

(53:47):
legal but but even worse placeswhere you can buy D nine at a
dispensary there's a whole taxstructure around the you know
the green tax on cannabis thatis just brutalizing the market
yeah and then these guys areflying under the radar with with
DEA and not getting taxed. Sothere's there's quite a you

(54:10):
know, it's a very polarizingtopic I personally like the
eight because I you know as Isaid before, lightweight and
it's great so but at the sametime like I understand the the
politics and both sides of thecoin were like you know it's
very polarizing but I'm I'm kindof in the middle honestly which
is hard

to be yeah

i i'm i'm on the this this this let let let the
kids have their have to havetheir fun and this

is all gonna be federally legal eventually
anyway. Exactly. Exactly.

It's like it's in it's like it's adult it's all
struggle and speculation rightnow and we're all getting wisdom
it's all that the compensationyou know, da it's here to stay
there's probably going to besome regulation on it. There's
that mean it's all wildspeculation as it is but I mean,
it's all trending towardslegalization. I mean, it's it's
it's it's people have been fine.
The loopholes in these thingsfor centuries. And then once you

(55:01):
just find more and more again,how similar everything is and
how it's like, where, what isthe origin of all these things?
Sheldon, like you said, it'sthe, the Do you? Do you have a
seed that you patented? Then yougot pure da? Or is this one that
they produced in the lab? Whichis identically chemically
similar? Because our machinescan't tell the difference?

(55:23):
Right. So what do we have atthat point? What where does?
Where does that last stop? Wheredo you Where do we really
because we can't see themolecule, we have machines that
tell us where you know, what themolecule is looking like, or how
much of the molecule there is,but as far as its origin? Right.
It's It's It's It's It's whatit's, it's it's completely it's

(55:45):
a moot point at that point. So

yeah, I mean, it just seems like there's just,
there's this politics, and thenthere's, you know, various other
politics involved in otheraspects of the industry. It just
seems like there's so many, justchallenges and fights, fights
going on right now.

Fight. Yes, it's getting, it's getting brutal.
It's getting getting mean outthere. I can see.

Yeah. Well, as far as what you guys do, can you
tell us a little bit more aboutkind of like your full scope of
how you pull ideas together?
Obviously, you have the chemicalengineering background, you have
the scalability background, butlike when when do people
typically come to something likea chemical consultant,

I can use our project that we're talking about
in Australia, right now, as anexample, I just recently got
contacted. And they said, Hey,we listen to your podcast, we
like what you do. Let's, let'stalk. And so I just started kind
of chatting with this fella fromAustralia, who is putting
together basically just bought aplot of land, they're going to

(56:54):
be growing in a really advancedand interesting way. And then
taking that to oil, andisolettes for pharma. And so,
you know, he basically laid outwhat he wanted to do and said,
What's the best way to do thelab side of things, I have the
growth side of things lockeddown. But I would like someone

(57:16):
to talk to me about that. So youknow, Greg, and I, at that
point, will jump in and say,Okay, this is what this is what,
first off, what is the scaleyou're trying to do it at. And
then once we get thatinformation, kind of walk
through what that looks like,what the best practices are, for
design of a facility, whether itmay be more financially viable
for them to buy, you know, tobuild their own extraction room,

(57:39):
or to buy a prefab extractionbooth or what, what the route is
there. And then as we move onpast the design phase, then we
can start talking about, Okay,now let's get serious about what
you're trying to produce and howyou want to produce it. Enter
Greg, who will really do a lotmore of the research side of
things, if it's something new,or if it's something that's

(58:00):
already existing, kind of finetune what that is and how to do
it. And then, and then we'lltake that and scale it to
whatever size they need. So Imean, anywhere from jump on in
there, when all they have is aplot of land of they haven't
even grown the flower yet. Orsomebody that's a pre existing
lab that says, hey, we thinkthat we can tune in our slps.

(58:21):
And do this better. Help us outhere. Like maybe they replaced
one piece of equipment, and thatchanges a lot.

Yeah, no, that's really interesting. And like, so
you guys go through from you cando it from conception to
delivery, basically

100%, even down to formulation, after we've
already isolated the variouscompounds, let's formulate what
your final product wants to beif we want to be vertical.

Right, right. I was well, I was gonna say Do
people typically know? I imaginemost people don't know the
chemical part of it. So like,how do they know what they want?
How do you guys know what to puttogether?

I think it's it's again, just Jason put together
because his podcast for areason. He puts it because he
was asking these questions, andnobody was out there with the
answers. So he was the one whotook the initiative to put it
out there and be like, I I can'tbe the only 1am I still here.

(59:21):
Sorry. I can't be the only oneasking these questions. Yeah,
right. I mean, there's there'sgot to be somebody else out
there. So I'm gonna put it outthere and maybe, maybe, maybe I
am the only one but I doubt itnow. If not, I'll find somebody
else asking that question thatmay have an answer to another
question. Right. That's whenthat's when that's where it is.

(59:42):
That's where we are. We've we'vewe meet in the middle because I
think we we have come verysimilar yet completely different
set of skills. Yeah. allows usto attack things from different
angles, and realize that like,Yeah, I don't know if people
necessarily always know what wewant. But if if We can come in
with an idea and say, do youknow Do you want to? What do you

(01:00:05):
want to take? Like? Do you wantto go? isolette? route? Do you
want to go? You know, only vapecartridges you want to do
edibles? Do you want to do youknow, just full production and
Li and then or do you want tototal it? Do you want to what do
you want to do with and andwe've seen so many different
permutations of this and so manydifferent parts of the world
that we, I think have a bit of acompetitive edge to be able to

(01:00:30):
bring all of again, this justcollaborate all those things and
bring them all together?

Jason Showard (01:00:35):
I would say, Well, first of all, thank you
for the plug on the podcast,just in case anybody wants to
know. Yeah, I was gonna askextractor,

Ronjini Joshua (01:00:42):
modern extractor, it's actually really
easy to find. So we'll have alink for it.

Alright, but just to add what what Greg was
saying, you know, I find a lotof people know what they want.
They they know what they want.
From an end product perspective,I want to make the best shatter,
or I want to make the best fullspectrum vape cartridges or
whatever, like, they usuallyhave an idea of what they want.
Okay, and then what they don'tknow is how to get. So tell it

(01:01:10):
tell us what you wanna make.
We'll work backwards. I thinkthat's better. Yeah. But then
also, some people don't knowwhat they want. And they say, we
just want to make the most moneywe can make? And if that's the
answer, you know, we have enoughexperience and time put into the
industry where I can say, Well,hey, these are the trends that

(01:01:30):
are happening right? Now. If youwant to make the most money,
then then maybe you think aboutmaking these type of
concentrates. So it's kind of,you know, it's not a one one
size fits all, it's just kind oflike, Hey, what are you trying
to do? We'll help you out?

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Did we? Do
we not ask anything that weshould have?

Sheldon (01:01:47):
I asked something and no one answer that.

Oh, sorry.
Sorry, Sheldon.

Sheldon (01:01:53):
How do you guys go about testing new chemical
compounds and the effects on thehuman body?

I really did not hear that question. It was

Gregory Arias (01:02:03):
never gonna get back to that. Are we gonna go
back to that I want to dancesteps up. As far as, as far as
effects on the human body,that's, that's going to be a
left left up to the, you know,medical medical scientist, and
they would be able to, you know,test on, you know, the animal
models first, obviously, becausewe're going to be, I mean, I

(01:02:25):
doubt right now, if we just ifwe asked for it, we could have
somebody test if we really want,we can have some person test,
but is it a scientific tests?
That No, it's a typicallaboratory analysis equipment,
GC, Ms. LC, yes. Geography,

Sheldon (01:02:51):
acronyms that the general public does, I'm sad

to say, yeah, yeah, sorry. I was just about to
lubeck, gas chromatography,liquid chromatography. nuclear
magnetic resonance, is a novel,and it's nuclear magnetic
resonance. So NMR, finding theshapes of the molecules and
things like that massspectroscopy, same sort of
thing. It's all it's allanalytical equipment. But again,

(01:03:16):
the the pitfalls with thosethings is that you kind of have
to have an idea of what you areputting in, you have to have an
idea of of what you're lookingfor. And then the machine will
be like, Oh, this is this is thesignal that I'm giving you. It
gives you peaks or a line or achart. And it's like the people

(01:03:37):
who don't know what, what thatis. It's just lines. But if you
know, okay, this is where thecarbon usually comes out. This
is where a ring usually comesout. This is where hydroxyl
groups come out. And then youcan kind of, you know, back
piece it together. And it'sit's, but as far as actual
testing on on effects. Yeah,that's that would be more

(01:04:00):
definitely left to to themedical professionals. Yeah, my
biology and pharmacy. Cool.
Thank you. Absolutely.

Okay, any other questions?

Sheldon (01:04:16):
You guys have the floor right now? Yeah. Is there
something that you wish thegeneral public knew that you
don't get a chance to speak on?
Oh, man,

I wish the general public cared a little
bit more about the origins ofwhat they're putting in their
bodies. Yeah, you know, there's,there are good actors and bad
actors in the space, even ifthey all have licenses. I mean,
we're talking within thelicensed space. There's good
actors and bad actors. You know,there's, there's people that are
taking advantages of loopholesthat are in the legislation

(01:04:51):
because the legislators don'tknow how to how to plug those
loopholes and says a scientificCannabis community, see them
clear as day. But they're notgetting dealt with correctly.
So, you know, I think, you know,a lot of this isn't going to get
handled until there is a desirefrom the public that says, hey,

(01:05:15):
I want these test results, or Iwant this information. I want

more transparency or

quality is a shirt. Yes, exactly. Right. And
that'll

Sheldon (01:05:25):
happen after it becomes cancerous because we've played
with the chemicals too much.

Exactly. That's it. And going along with that I
I wish the people cared, caredmore. And I said it already was
the politicians cared less, Iwish we would just allow, allow
us the ability to beginregulating it properly. Because
Because the fact that it's beenso demonized, and forced into

(01:05:51):
the black market, we get thosebad actors, we get people that
are like, well, I'm still goingjust this like bootlegging,
right? I want to have this, Iwant this, this drug, it makes
you feel better cold calms medown, whatever it is, whatever
your motive is, they're gonnaget it, get it to them safely.
Get it to them the right way.
Allow us to figure it out, allowit because the market will

(01:06:12):
figure it out? Well, we willfigure it out. And the the
research scientists are muchmuch smarter than than all of
us, maybe we'll figure it out,they will figure out exactly
what we want to know. Likeyou're asking children like what
will the these things do to ourbody? Really? What is this going
to do to us? And if given thetime, they will figure it out.
But we need political backingfor that we need people to

(01:06:35):
change the line and allow us todo that,

more than anything. And to get the
political backing, we need theconsumer to be educated and
demand it because it's nothappen until it affects your
bottom line, because you're notproviding this information.
That's that's that's the

that's the right yep.

Sheldon (01:06:54):
Now, do you feel like federal legalization is going to
actually enhance your ability toto create that research create
those research programs getfunding? Or?

Absolutely be, because the demand will be
there, and the people who arecurrently tenuous about it about
getting in will will be like,no, it's, we can do this, now we
can all actually do this. And wecan actually put our entire, you
know, quality and our entirebeing into making this as good

(01:07:26):
and as safe. And as real as weput on the shelf of target. You
know, get it out there to peopleon a massive scale where
everybody can feel safe,everybody can walk in feel safe,
and not just dislike going tothe liquor store, you know, just
the simple things. If they won'teven be wanting to be talked
about to speak, you know, pickup some smokes get out, right.

Sheldon (01:07:51):
This is such a huge topic. And thank you guys so
much for, for really taking adeep dive and giving a lot of
information, I know that wecould go into the environmental
effects of this, we could goeven deeper into the business
side of it. But for now, I thinkthat's the that's the end of the
road for today. But there's justso much we could talk about like

(01:08:13):
this, this, this is a three tofive month conversation.

Right. Exactly.
That's, that's the that's theend of the joint today. I'm
gonna pass this along to

Sheldon (01:08:30):
thank you guys so much for joining us today. Thank you.
Thank you so much. It

was a lot of fun.
If I if I may say one thinghere, we modern extractor just
just decided to join up withmace media for the extraction
Expo. that's taking place in LosAngeles, September 30 to October
1. I'll have a booth there whileI'll be interviewing folks from
from the industry. And it's agreat, really educational

(01:08:59):
conference where, you know,thought leaders in the industry
are mixed up with scientistsfrom the industry and extractors
and we all get together. Andthere's a lot of work done in
furthering the field there, andI'll be there covered it live.
So come on by and check me out.
Please

be there. We'll be there. That's awesome.

Definitely be your sound guy. Can we switch
this up? I'll be the I'll be onthe knobs in the back and you
can

turn turning you all the way down. Awesome. Well,
thank you guys so much. Thanksfor joining us. And we're gonna
put all the links in the shownotes so everybody can get to
the modern extractor. If youcan't find it, and of course go
to the concentrated sciencewebsite as well. Well,

we'll have that ready. Yeah.

Thank you guys for having us. It's been a great
experience. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

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(01:10:18):
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