Ep 44 - Changing The Way We Look At The CBD Industry. An interview w/ Tahira Rehmatullah, Co-Founder, Commons - The Green Room Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ronjini Joshua (00:11):
In this interview, I talked to Tahira co
founder and CEO of comment andpartner at Highland venture
partner. She talks about herjourney to the cannabis industry
and how as a brown woman andchild of Pakistani immigrants,
she kind of came upon gettinginto the cannabis industry, as
well as investing in howimportant it is to have social

(00:31):
equity as as well as givingopportunities to people to
become entrepreneurs in theindustry. So this is an awesome
interview about how strong womencan come up and create new
opportunities in cannabis.
Joining us for this conversationin the green room now.
Hi, we are here in the greenroom with Tahira Rehmatullah.

(00:55):
She's the co founder and CEO ofCommons, and partner and
Highlands Venture Partners. Sothank you for joining me here.

Tahira Rehmatulla (01:06):
Thanks for having me

know, I'm excited to hear a little bit
about your panel that you talkedon Tuesday, and the finance
forum and and a little bit moreabout what you guys are doing in
the cannabis space. But first, Ilike kind of trying to gauge
everyone's thoughts on mjbizconthis year and what they expected
and what they saw.

Sure. So I've been coming on GPS comm for
quite some time. And it's alwaysinteresting to see the evolution
compared to early days when theywere like, you know, a couple
100 of us at the Rio. Right.
Yeah, which feels like ages ago,and just like very different
experience. You know, and now tosee the scale of it, I think
2019 was massive, it feels aboutthe same as that I think, you

(01:46):
know, really, for me, it was anopportunity to just see people
that I haven't seen in a verylong time. So there's an
opportunity for reconnection.
And I think also just seeingsome of the new businesses and
areas of like depth that areemerging. As an investor, you
look across the entire space.
Yeah, as somebody with a brand.

(02:07):
I'm always looking for newingredients, manufacturing
partners, collaborations. And soreally, it's like, it's a great

(02:45):
place to be able to see all ofthat

(05:00):
It's like, you just have to notlook at the numbers. Just write
it out, write it out, like, buymore don't sell, you know, pick
the names or the ETFs that youlike and just keep going. But
you can't worry about it day today. And then you're seeing, but
on the other side of it, you'reseeing m&a skyrocketing. And
it's because, you know, it's allabout sentiment as well, and

(05:20):
what's going to happen withfederal legalization. Like,
there are some people who arevery bullish and think that it
will be one to two years, I'mprobably in the more cautious
camp that three to five, threeto five, but starting with
capital markets, you know, we'llhave some kind of a SAFE Act,
some kind of a more act, justcombination of those, yeah, do
allow for banking, to do a lotallow for like some degree of

(05:43):
cross state transaction thatreally around safety and
thinking also about socialequity. And what are we doing
about expungement, and allowingfor more resources for black and
brown people to participate inthe space? And that's really
happening at a state level, theymight just leave it there. You
know, it's hard to say rightnow, I think that there are just
shifting priorities when youlook at what's happening in the

(06:04):
administration. And so I tend tothink it's a bit longer. I have
been proven wrong once or twicebefore. But I think that this
one, you know what, I'm probablyright, I'm probably right. And I
think that is just inpreparation for that. Because
once that happens, once there isa clear line of sight for
federal legalization, then allof the current big cannabis

(06:28):
operators, which are multibillion dollar companies, but
they're trading a lower, youknow, they're mostly trading on
the CSC. But then you'recompeting with major CPG, big
alcohol, big tobacco, likegroups that have massive yes,
that can do transactions thatare not within the realm of
capability today. And we've seena couple of those, you know,

(06:48):
constellation invested like $4billion in canopy, you're seeing
some of those businesses startto take their toehold in these
other operators. And then inturn, those operators which are
predominantly Canadian, yeah,are then coming to the US. Also
looking at global footprint, butus is really what every operator
is thinking about this isprobably going to be that

(07:11):
already is the biggest market,it's probably the most
interesting, and Canada is goingto losing steam, and they have
all these all this money. Andthey can't really deploy it
within their own country becausethat market isn't going to grow
the scale that it will in theUS. So, you know, lots of
discussion around those like,you know, what's the right
vertical? I don't think there isa right one, I do think I'll

(07:31):
always have been a big believerin the power of the brand. And
brands are hard. They take avery long time to cultivate.
Yeah, I am one of those peoplethat other people probably get
angry because I don't believethat like the best brands like
the top 10 brands, 10 years fromnow exists today. Some of them
do some form. But I think thatbrand loyalty is really hard in

(07:53):
such a fragmented market. Andnow there's a New Yorker and the
East Coast coming online. I'mlike, you know what's relevant
on the West Coast may not besure there will be some Oh, that
East Coast West Coast rival. Ihad a moderate a panel last week
at Trailblazers that was allabout West Coast for West Coast
operated California. AllCalifornia actually. Yeah. Like

(08:15):
it's funny that they put a NewYorker sitting here, this
coaster who was like, Alrightguys, do you really think that
you're that special? Yeah.
They're like, yes, we do. Yes.
No, but I will say like,California has an incredible
market. There's so much to learnfrom that. Good and bad. Yeah.
And thinking about how has themarket evolved. I mean, the the
illegal market in California isbooming. It even even maybe more

(08:39):
so than before legalization,because of the way that
regulation has been structuredand taxes. It's kind of pushing
people back into that. Right. Sothere are lessons to be learned
on like, how do we do this? Withlike, with also a sense of false
confidence at the same time?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, Ithink that there, there were a
lot of things in California wasearly when you think of their
social equity program, legaladult use legalization. And it's

(09:01):
hard being early, you know, andso you hope that the east coast
will learn from that. We'vealready seen flaws happening in
different markets, there wasgreat hope for Illinois, various
social equity programs, andwe're seeing a lot of challenges
there. You know, nothing hasreally come to fruition. New
York has stalled and stalledlargely because of the desire

(09:24):
for social equity. And thenobviously, we Cuomo was pushed
out people came in, she movedeverything very quickly. But
what we're seeing are some ofthe flaws that maybe came from
other markets and that therearen't any cannabis operators
who are sitting on thosecommittees and on those teams.

(09:44):
Sure. And that's challengingbecause now we actually do have
the benefit of people who haveoperated in space, who might
have a very importantperspective to bring and how
does the rollout happen? What ifyou do this regulation what
actuallyhappens playing out like
intentions are always good,right? But things go sideways as
we all know, right? And I thinkthat that, so we're all we're

(10:06):
keeping a very close eye on thatand wondering what's going to
happen. But I think that, youknow, at the end of the day,
California is the biggest andvery important market. But I'm
excited for you.

I saw like, best on her lips a little bit
biggest. And that's what she wasgoing to say, I

guess. Yeah, dare I say, I got kicked out of
New York. Yeah.

Ben Michaels (10:27):
Would you have an opinion, like coming from New
York like seeing like how, likeColorado, and how they did their
medical and recreational sideand how they split the two of
those, as opposed to Californiawhere all being medical is
anymore? It's just getting anextra 5% of your bill? You know,
I wonder if you have an opinionon that, as it rolls out?

Well, I think markets that have more of a true
medical, where they'resubstantially, the dosing is
very different. What isavailable is also different, the
pricing is quite different,because we're not going to be an
insurance covered structure fora very long time. And for a lot
of people, cannabis is medicine.
And so when you go into theseheavily taxed adult use markets,

(11:11):
it's just not feasible forpeople to be able to use it on a
daily basis, you know, multipletimes a day. Yeah. And so I
think the markets that have beenable to really strike that
balance are very impactful inColorado has gone through
multiple iterations. They wereearly. But there is that that
value in that structure there?

(11:35):
And I think, yeah, to your pointabout California, there isn't
that big of a differenceanymore. I mean, the medical
market was essentially adultuse. Yeah, I had my California
medical, California. And I waslike, oh, and actually, when I
got my medical card, it wasquite some time ago, I was

(11:55):
actually sitting in Canada to domy Zoom interview, or whatever
it was, yeah, maybe it was zoom.
It was an early adopter, but todo that virtual interview with a
physician sitting in California,and I guess this was 2015. Yeah.
And I was like, I don't evenhave to be in the state. And
then, you know, sent my medicalcard to a friend in California.

(12:16):
I'm like, hey, when this comesin, send it to me. Yeah. And
then that's what I use everytime I was there. But I still
don't have a New York medicalcard there for ages. But that's
also it's a very differentmedical market. Yes, it was
highly restrictive, you reallyhad to have specific ailments.
And those have loosened morewhere it allows for, like,
chronic pain, which is, I think,very important. And as someone

(12:38):
is I suffer from chronic pain,and so to not have that on a on
a list. You know, New Yorkreally went pretty extreme, and
now has started to become alittle bit more friendly and for
the medical, but we'll see whathappens, you know, with with
adult use, and will there bemore of a separation? Do they
kind of come close together? Ithink states have had a little

(12:59):
bit of a challenge balancingwhat does that look like and
taxes speak for themselves?
States want and so for forSummit? I think they go through
the assessment of doesn't matterif we, if we're going to do
adult use, do we just have itall? Not everyone gets to use?

(13:20):
Yeah, but then that it's goodrevenue for the state, but then
again, goes back into whatpeople who are really using this
for medical and not forrecreational use? Yeah, then
it's just inaccessible. Yeah,you have to be pretty wealthy to
be able to, it's prettyexpensive. The targets. Yeah,
and that's why then the illegalmarket thrives because that's

(13:41):
how you're able to compete or beable to have more access on a
regular basis, because they'll,they can move their prices
around all they want. Yeah,yeah. Who's

wherever they feel? Yeah. Um, that actually
brings me to kind of my introquestion usually, is the journey
like how did you get into thecannabis industry and you
mentioned chronic pain. So youknow what, what got you into
cannabis and then what what madeyou want to work in?

Yeah, so actually, my my, my chronic pain
oddly developed once I was inthe industry. But yeah, I so my
background pre cannabis is moretraditional finance workers and
young and I was at a hedge fundand did a one year fellowship at
a nonprofit was really trying tofind how do I bring more mission

(14:27):
oriented work with privatesector and this is a little bit
before impact investing fundsand ESG were really a focus on
the investment side. So I wentto business school and while I
was in business school in mysecond year, my grandfather was
diagnosed with stage four lungcancer and so it was my mother's
father. My family is fromPakistan. I grew up in small

(14:48):
town, Ohio, and my grandfatherwas with my parents at the time
of his diagnosis. And so mymother became his caretaker and
as happens with so many peoplewhen you're going through those
that you're you're reallyLooking for every alternative
that is out there. And she keptcoming across cannabis in her
late night Google searches. Andone day, she texted me and my

(15:09):
younger sister. And all she saidwas, Do you know where to get
marijuana? To watch? My littlesister immediately called me?
And she was like, Do you thinkthis is a test? Yeah. Maybe
let's find out what's going on.
So

the like, don't answer Yeah.

And it just struck me at that time that my
mother and my parents are devoutMuslims. I've never looked at
any of this. Any of these typesof products, even though
Pakistan is a country thatcannabis grows freely, but it's
just not utilized that way. Butmy parents are very big
believers in my family ingeneral and homeopathic
medicines. Exactly. My father isa physician. So there's also a

(15:49):
belief that Western medicine butwe've always had, you know,
before any over the counter,something was given, it was
always some kind of homeopathicauction, you know, so that that
was very much a part of ourlives, but certainly not
cannabis. It was a part of mylife and that I was, you know, a
high schooler growing up insmall town, Ohio, and nobody had
anything to do. Yeah, you wouldconsume cannabis, you know, or
everybody you knew was growingit in their basement. Yeah. And

(16:11):
so it really hadn't been Ihadn't consumed cannabis in a
long time at that point. But Iknew where to get it in my
hometown. And, you know, I toldmy mom, I said, Look, I know
where to get it. You're notgoing there. They're not coming
to you. And all I knew how toget was flour, and my
grandmother had lung cancer. Andso even if that was an option

(16:36):
for somebody who's going throughchemotherapy has a compromised
immune system. I was I said, youknow, I don't know what's on it.
I don't know what's in it. Yeah,I certainly can't give it to
him. And she just she wasdesperate to find something that
wood finds provide some relief,and we weren't able to get him
anything. Before he passed away,that would be helpful. But it

(16:56):
just really started thisconversation, this conversation
for all of us. And I think forme just research mode and want
to start learning a lot moreabout what was happening in
California and Canada and Israelaround research and how it was
truly used as medicine, youknow, when you think of the AIDS
epidemic, and how heavilycannabis was utilized during

(17:18):
that period. And then also theother side of it, on the social
justice side, reallyunderstanding the war on drugs,
and how did that come to be?
What did it actually mean? AndI'm a child of the 80s. And I
was like, did Nancy Reagan lieto me? Like I was adjusting?
Okay, yeah. And then I was like,but this was all made up. This
was made up to target certaincommunities. And so I was fired

(17:38):
up didn't really know what to doabout it. I didn't know that
they're

actually getting hot. Yeah.

Yeah, I do.
But I didn't know that therewere legal jobs. I didn't really
understand this is late 2013Going into 2014. And so there
wasn't that much discussion,even around what was happening
in Colorado and Washington,right. And then, the day after
my grandfather passed away, Iwas sitting at my parents house
in Ohio, and I got a random textmessage from a former classmate

(18:08):
of mine who was a year ahead ofme, at Yale, and he had
graduated without a job andjoined a startup that was
started by alumni of a program.
That was the the first cannabisfirm focused on our investment
firm focus on cannabis andrandomly random, and so he just

(18:30):
randomly texted me he didn't wehadn't talked in months. So he
didn't know that I had beenlooking at it. I'd forgotten
what he was doing, because it'sa small niche. And I was like,
that's funny and weird. And allhe said, the first text was,
hey, do you have a job? And whenyou're sitting in February, or
second year business school,you're generally in freakout
mode, because you're graduating,you need to have a job, you need

(18:52):
to have a job. And I was like,Ooh, a sore subject. And he
said, All he said was, how doyou feel about Seattle and
marijuana? And I'd forgottenwhat he was doing. And I was
like, Whoa, that's right.
That's, that's what Sam isdoing. And it was kind of like
the perfect storm. And I turnedto my parents, and I said, What
do you guys think about Seattlemarijuana fully thinking that
they would be like, Absolutelynot, are you right? But we just

(19:13):
gone through this experience.
And they were very open mindedabout it, and did view it as
medicine. So I was like, thiscould be the shortest job I ever
have. Let's see. Yeah, I canalways get out of it. Yeah,
hopefully I'm like, or am I justtaking this fancy business
degree that I've just gotten itand immediately lighting it on
fire? Oh, yeah. No. And so Imoved to Seattle, join this

(19:38):
company. And seven years laterhere we are

venture ventures. So no,

actually the first company I worked for, I
worked in a lot of places. Okay,so it was Privateer Holdings,
which was also the company thatstarted Tilray Okay. accom and
then within that, so I had theopportunity to work on the
investment side and then alsowas I was put in a position to
be an operator. So I started abrand called Marley Natural,
which was a partnership with BobMarley's family estate holdings.

(20:08):
So I had the opportunity to workon that for a couple of years.
Take that to mark in that was ata time when brands were new.
Yeah, cannabis. I mean, Iremember having debates with bud
tenders in California, becausethat was a market we launched in
that prepackaged cannabis wasthe future of cannabis. And they
were like, No way. No way.
Nobody's gonna buy cannabis likethis. And I'm like, no, no, they

(20:28):
they will. Marley's name is onYes. It should come sealed. And
yeah, just like safe packaging.
And they're like, No, there'sbecause at that time, it was
still jars of bud. There wasyeah, there wasn't that much on
the edible side. And what wasavailable really was made in
someone's kitchen. So justseeing that evolution has been

(20:50):
really fascinating. And then,since then, I've done a
combination of consultinghelping other brands get to
market and moved into more ofthe investment side and venture.
I did a spec, actually, the thefirst US listed spec very close
in 2018. At a time when it'scrazy. Nobody knew what the hell
a spec.

Yeah, I mean, I barely I know. I know a little
bit about us back. But I don'tknow, even when you've seen it.
I've seen it. headlineseverywhere.

I mean, this was a time we appeared at the
end of January 2018. And ourroad shows, you know, we're
talking to very sophisticatedinvestors. And there is there's
a distinct group that is calledthe spec mafia, who they trade
specs, they really understandthem. But broader investment
community didn't reallyparticipate in specs didn't
really understand them. And sowe got smart on it. And even I

(21:40):
had the debate internally. I'mlike, is this a Ponzi scheme? I
don't. I just like the structurewas new to me.

It's weird. It's like strange, if you hear about
it the first time exactly theMoore's that when they explained
it to me, I'm like, okay,

yeah, it makes sense. And it makes sense.
It made a lot of sense for thecannabis market. So we did
announce that lesson one, wetook a business called MJ
Freeway public in 2019. It's nowcalled a Corona. So tech play in
the cannabis space. They're alsoa big believer in what are
called ancillary businesses thatare powering and supporting the
industry, because the largerbusinesses that are outside of

(22:15):
the industry don't support ityet, and they're starting to but
there's still that barrier,because of the lack of legality.
Yeah,

until they can make money from it. Why?

Yeah, why do it? Yeah, yeah. And then in to
comments and highlands areactually, within the last few
years are wanting to wanting tofocus on investing in more
venture opportunities, but alsoallowing for my partner,
Jacqueline Bennett at Highlands.
And I, we really wanted to bringmore women and minorities on cap
tables. And, you know, we hadbeen in the space for a while we

(22:48):
were finally at a point wherewe're able to get allocations
into investments, even if theyweren't massive dollars. But to
be able to get, even if you canget, you know, a couple 100,000
and then be able to give thataccess to people who maybe
wouldn't have generally want tohave access to themselves, but
also maybe their check size is5000 10,000 15,000. I mean, it's

(23:09):
a lot to manage for an investorgroup. But at the end of the
day, if you can allow thatperson to participate in the
industry and generateopportunity for themselves, like
that's what we want to be ableto do, and the stock market
isn't for everybody, yes, youcan participate in that. But
it's a very different type ofvalue proposition than when

(23:29):
you're able to invest in privatecompanies. So that's where we
have focused there, we've doneseven investments, you know,
ranging from 125,000 to amillion. And then on the common
side, that really is somethingthat I've been thinking about
for a while, you know, I'd donebrands in the space had known
that maybe someday I would starta brand but as the brand started

(23:52):
flooding the market, it reallylike they all kind of looked and
felt the same to me. And thereare really great ones out there.
Don't get me wrong, but I thinkthe trend has been much more
similar populations coastal,have a certain value point or
you luxury, luxury price point.

(24:13):
And what started to really cometo mind for me was well, who's
talking to the rest of thecountry? Yeah, he's talking to
even people like my mom, right?
Or more diverse communities thatmaybe aren't just following the
trends that are happening on thecoasts and with that, even
thinking about something likeCBD so Commons right now as CBD
only will continue into othercannabinoids and eventually THC.

(24:36):
But even with CBD, it's floodedthe market. It is everywhere.
Everywhere.

My I went home one day, we were recording. And
that day I had like, on the wayhome I was like, stopped at my
parents house. I just like wentin there and I was like, I
looked at my dad's desk and mydad's 81 to do

somebody that somewhere in Yeah.

And at plus, I looked at his desk and he has
the CBD, like vitamins orsomething. And I'm like, what is
happening? Right? Like, I didn'tactually didn't say anything. So
I was like, I didn't sayanything. But I was like
thinking like, I wonder if theyknow what I'm doing. And I mean,
not that they would sayanything. They don't really

(25:22):
care. No, but like, I wonder ifthey know what I'm doing. And
then where do they get that CBDand what is he using it for? All
the questions, all the questionscame up. And I was like, so
judgy about my dad have a gay,you know, like all the things
that you might think that yourparents have about you asking
those questions to them. I waslike, I was like, I was turning

(25:43):
the parent. I was like, what'sgoing on? But did you just so I
was so curious about how theybecame so trendy. He led with
the CBD.

Yeah. And it is everywhere. Funny story about
my mom. So obviously been incannabis since 2014.

Yeah. 28 Your Mom's an OG now?

Well, I thought yes. And no, I got this
call from her and 2018. I likeremember very distinctly, she
called and she said, Hey, haveyou heard of CBD? And I was
like, Excuse me, mother? Yes.

How dare you?
How

dare you?
Excuse you? And she said, and Isaid, why? And she goes, Well,
I've been taking the CBD. And,and this kind of leads into why
Commons just kind of felt likethe right position. Yeah, so she
calls me tells me this and I'mlike asking all these questions
like, Where'd you get it fromall and why he you know, came
from one of her best friendswho? Indian woman around you

(26:34):
know, same age and it's dealingwith the same pain points. And
our family friend, Auntie Gogi.
She has a chain. She hasconvenience stores. Okay, so she
dealing with a lot of people arecoming in daily for different
items. And people start askingabout CBD. So she just did her

(26:56):
own research, she found awholesaler and started stocking
it. Hey, couldn't keep it on theshelves. So she tried it
herself. She found relief forher back pain. And instead of
taking multiple Advil a day, andshe recommended it to my mom for
her backpack. It's amazing. And,you know, my mom was like, Yeah,
this is this is actuallyhelpful. She's like, why haven't
you ever brought this to me? AndI was like, Well, I did not know

(27:18):
that that was on the table.
Yeah. Because even though myparents were supportive of me
being in the space, they theywere like, oh, we'll try all the
Yeah. Yeah. And so fast forwardto thinking about different
opportunities in way to providemore access in the market.
Realize more than it wasn't asmuch about the products

(27:39):
themselves. I think we've comevery far. Yeah, testing is
better. extraction methods arebetter, like the products out
there are good, there are stillstill a very wide range of
usually test products. And yousee, they say it's X amount of
CBD, how much is actually inthere? Sure. It's still a
question or like, what otherthings are they testing for? Or
that have been discovered? Butit was a little bit less? To me.

(28:01):
That's like, that's not theissue. What is the issue is
distribution and how that ishappening? Because now you're
finding it in every bodega.

Yes, yeah. Omar, everything.

Nordstrom can get it on Amazon. But you know,
there's a difference between CBDand hemp seed oil. And people
don't understand that either.
And so it's everywhere, kind offlashing in your face. But
people still don't reallyunderstand it. They don't know
what very confusing, and it istrial and error, because we
don't have all the clinicaltrials, the trials and the
history that we have when itcomes to over the counter

(28:37):
pharmaceutical products. And soit is trial and error. And like,
I've been in space long enoughthat I've had enough trial and
error, I've tried it. And I'veaired multiple times, I can tell
you what not to do. But for theaverage person, I think it's
it's more challenging, right?
You don't get Advil, it saystake to not within this time

(28:59):
frame all of that. We don't havethat. And so what I realized in
conjunction with somebody that Ihad been brainstorming ideas
with with a while for a while atThrive capital. This direct
sales model was very impactful.
And you know, I was someone Ididn't have a lot of exposure to
direct sales by. My sister hadpreviously been involved with

(29:21):
Beautycounter and Stellan dot.
Okay, but in my mind, what camefrom a lot of those was what
comes to a lot of people andthat's pyramid scheme. Yeah.
Knowing exactly like you're allof your old high school,

hitting you up on Facebook, inviting inviting
them over to your house for aparty.

Exactly. And they're like, you have to buy
all of this. Yeah, right. Likebefore you leave, you must buy.
Here's the sand so well, youknow, that was my impression
too. And as we did more and morework on just understanding the
value and there's a reason whyit has been successful in a lot
of areas. Yeah, there has beenthere. There have been a lot of

(29:59):
things that have been donewrong, there are predatory
elements that were introducedinto a lot of different
structures. And so as the ideastarted to come together more
and more, it's like it felt likethe right channel for not just
CBD, but cannabinoids morebroadly and right

after that is like it's a conversation, right?
You have to actually like youwere just saying, like, there's
not enough information. So whenyou're talking to someone, and
we've talked to a few people whoare like consultants as well,
and like that, that is a hugepart of right now in the
industry is like, let's talkabout the problems you're having
and what may or may not happenif you take this or that or

(30:34):
this. So that totally makessense for that, you know, this
industry that you're talkingabout like it like that whole
Avon, Mary Kay all those thatmodel, you do have to have a
conversation with

them. And and it may not work for you the
first time you sure can talk toyou and recommend something and
you can try a couple of timesand it doesn't have the effect.
And then you have somebody to goback to and say, Okay, what did
you do? How did you do it? Letme recommend this, and you keep
iterating. But you do it with apartner, right? A guide a coach,
you know, we call themambassadors. And that I think is

(31:08):
really important. And we areseeing the the adoption when it
comes into western medicine.
It's not happening fast enoughand may not happen for a while.
But what we are seeing is justmore of the opportunity around
health coaches and advocates andthe openness I think for a lot
of people to want to try thingsthat are natural. But it is it's
a learning process. And it's notgoing away anytime soon. And so

(31:32):
be it CBD other minorcannabinoids, eventually THC. I
mean, I often joke, but I'mserious about it that like
cannabis has always been a peerto peer transaction. Yeah,
everybody's always, you know,you got a guy. Yeah. And that's
what we want to be like your,your, you know, guy, your guy or
girl or gal. We want to be that,that advocate that's helping you

(31:56):
through the process andunderstanding. And if it's not
for you, it's not for you. Butwe also we want to be able to
build a community of people whoare able to talk to each other
and share use cases. And so ifwe can collect that information,
and then share that back out forbetter consumer experience for
more effectiveness, and youknow, the power of being able to

(32:17):
aggregate that data, and thenalso inform product development.
You know, I can make all theassumptions I want all day long.
I'm like, What do I like and madand what flavor? What dosing,
but hearing from people, we'reactually taking it on a regular
basis, much more realistic viewexactly. And that's really why
we want to take thatinformation, and have an inform

(32:39):
every bit of our process. And Iknow in direct to consumer
businesses, you are aggregatingdata, but there's no real follow
up from there, you know, there'sno talking back to the company.
And what we want is everybodytalking back to us, so we can
actually create a betterecosystem for them. And, you
know, I think beyondcannabinoids, other natural

(33:01):
wellness products, we think ofthe evolution of what's
happening in psilocybin, youknow, just functional health.
There, there's a lot ofopportunity there. But at the
end of the day, a lot of it isjust trial and error and trying
to understand, you know, evensomething like meditation. Yeah.
There's a reason why things likeheadspace and calm. It's because

(33:22):
there's a guide. Yeah, exactly.
Plan for you put in place forfive minutes. Exactly. Yeah. And
that makes a difference in datapeople. And I think that that's,
this is right now we're physicalproduct, eventually we'll go
into probably collaborations andpartnerships with other types of
services and try to create moreof a platform. But obviously,

(33:45):
we're early. But that's going tobe the direction we want to go.
We think that there's this greatopportunity for people to take
health into their own hands andfigure it out together and
having people to talk to I mean,the reason why I think retail
and maybe even direct toconsumer are not right for this
or not as effective all the timeis because you don't Who are you

(34:09):
talking to? If you havesomething more vulnerable, like
you're having sleep issues, youhave this pain? Are you talking
to somebody behind the counter,you know, the Vitamin Shoppe,
right? Are you going to see themever again? Yeah, no, if it
doesn't work, you're going tocome back and ask consulting. So
it's a relationship. Yeah. Andthere's, there's so much value
in then, you know, this, thisidea had come together. Cree

(34:31):
COVID, my co founder, Pat and Ikind of came together at the end
of 2019 and going into 2020really saying, Okay, we're
gonna, we're gonna do this. Andthen COVID hit, and so many
people asked like, Okay, do youthink this is the right time?
I'm like, Yeah, this is the besttime actually I am the best time
for everybody needs somethingfor health and mental health,

(34:52):
you know, physical health. Andthen beyond that, the
opportunity to diversify income.
Yeah, we are seeing so much moreof that and the fragility of all
of our jobs. And what couldhappen from there, and people
want to have that opportunity.
And

I want to be an ambassador now. Yeah, I did. I
didn't get a sign. Yeah. Ididn't know about comments
before this. This is great.

I will be following okay. Yeah. And you
know, I think that there is alsowe shouldn't be afraid to talk
about financial opportunity. Imean, yeah, our goal is to get
more people to be able tobenefit from cannabis and CBD.
Because right now, the trend inthe industry is like every other

(35:39):
one, where there are wealthywhite men that are running
everything. And in thisindustry, in particular, the
black and brown people who thisindustry has been built on our
don't have the opportunity, youneed a lot of money, you need
just like a lot of resourcesthat are not feasible, except
for like, smaller groups ofpeople. Yeah. And there's still

(36:00):
so many people sitting in jailfor crimes that are now legal.
Yeah. And, and that process isrunning very slowly. I'm on the
board of an organization calledthe last prisoner project, which
was all about trying to getthose people out of prison for
low level nonviolent cannabis.
We

actually Yeah, we actually had Steve on are

amazing.
Yeah. You know, that, thatthose, but it takes a village.
Yeah. And getting all of thesepolicies and just draconian drug
laws, and just the way thatbusiness often develops, like,
you have to be able to right thewrongs in a lot of different
places. And for us Commons is away to also give people the

(36:41):
tools to become smallentrepreneurs and then learn
Yeah, I would love people tojust come in, you know, it's, we
don't want to make it costprohibitive. It's just but if
you want to learn and you wantto, you know, you have some
cider, yeah. And it's nevermeant to be like, you have to
buy $5,000 for the product andput it in your garage, and we'll
take the revenue and then seeyou later. Nobody has to carry

(37:03):
inventory, we manage all thatwe'd have different level price
points for people to

well, the technology has come so far that
it is more sophisticated, youcan don't have to do that
anymore. Exactly. I will saythough, like direct to consumer,
as annoying as traditionally itmight have been. I mean it like
my mom, my parents moved herefrom India. And my dad was in
school, when they first they hewent to Auburn University in
Alabama. And my mom moved here,I think, I think it was like a

(37:34):
year or something after he came.
But that was one of her firstjobs, it was her first job to
have an opportunity to make somekind of income as a person who
did not go to school in thiscountry, or do any of those
things. She was an Avon rep. Andso like, I think that direct to
consumer as like a special placewhere like it does offer
entrepreneurship or incomepotential. I don't think she

(37:56):
made you know, entrepreneur likestartup money, something with
it. But like, I do think it kindof helped out with the bills
like these are people coming newto the country. It gave them
opportunities they probablydidn't have because my dad was
going to school. Yeah, so it'sjust it's, this is really like I
really love it. Because I mean,obviously I'm a business owner

(38:16):
and entrepreneur, but like,everyone doesn't have the
confidence to maybe like jumpinto that pool right away. And
this is a great way to kind ofhave that little toe dip your
toe, see how you like it, kindof see how it works. Yeah, and
then go from there. Right? Yeah,

we really want our ambassadors to be
people who also consumed theproduct, find benefit from it,
because personal stories are themost impactful. Why people
wanted to work with comments isbecause of our personal stories
and why we're here and it isit's coming from a place of
passion and like we care aboutit. I've seen the impact that

(38:54):
CBD has on people and thatcannabis has had on people.
Yeah, the most positive way. AndI am a believer, and I want
other people to have that accessand that opportunity. And so to
then you know, come in andprovide the opportunity also to
try the product, see if it worksfor you. And then go be the
advocate. You don't and we saythis all the time that all of us

(39:17):
take recommendations from ourfriends and our family for food
restaurants travel every ever sowhy if somebody is providing
something to you that you didn'tknow about Washington, they
benefit from it? Why shouldn'tthey get a commission on it?
Otherwise, it's going to Googleor Facebook or somebody?
Somebody is somebody is taking acut there? Yeah. So wouldn't you
rather go into like your friendor your family or somebody you

(39:39):
know, who has offered, you know,brought this to your attention?
And I'd rather that going backinto small business owners
pockets right and just again forsome people, couple 100 bucks
extra a month makes a bigdifference. It's your kids
pianos lessons. Oh yeah, extratime for you. It's a gym

(40:00):
membership, all of that mattersand I don't think we should sure
they're like everybody's notgonna become a millionaire.
Right? You know, we we very muchhave worked to ensure that it's
it doesn't create thisfreeloader structure and there's
a lot that has to go into makingsure that the compensation plan
requires people to put effort into get something out of it. And

(40:22):
that by going out if you'rereally amazing and just
recruiting people that you can'tjust sit there on your hands and
collect from them. And that is

a pyramid scheme. Definition.

And, you know, it's it's meant to be
collaborative, people, createteams, be mentors, and we're all
going to be learning together.
So we're in charge of taking allthe information that's out
there, distilling it down,offering it to people wanting to
really digestible way but thenas if they want to learn more
and keep going deeper and deeperthat we can offer that and just
be in this kind of collaborativeprocess where a community can

(40:57):
develop and have a lot ofdialogue around that.

So for the comments product line, I have
like five questions that wentout Okay, hopefully we can get
through this but for thecomments, product lines, what
what like kind of areas are youguys in?

So we are in do we have 12 products right now
they're in we have ingestibles,sublingual and topical, so okay,
and the ingestibles examples ofthat are like we have gummies,
we have soft gels forsublinguals. We have tinctures
and we have a dissolvable strip,like Listerine media, kind of

(41:34):
like a different texture. But werecommend, don't put it on your
tongue, put it inside yourcheek, it gets absorbed really
quickly. That's a 50 milligramproduct. You know, we are
working with a great groupthat's out of Columbus, Ohio
that have been medical devicecompany and they develop this
food grade dissolvable polymerthat can hold a decent amount of

(41:56):
CBD or other cannabinoids in it.
And we just found that theimpact of it is very strong, you
know, quick onset. So in thatregard, we're also looking for
innovation, what are otherproducts and form factors that
we can offer. And then on thetopical side, we have a salve
and a balm. And we'll keepexpanding from there. So we're
looking at products for femininecare. So when you think about
menstrual cramps, menopause,cannabinoid and CBD in

(42:20):
particular have shown to have agreat impact there. So working
with researchers who are doingwork on that side, and our goal
really is to work with the bestin every kind of distinct area.
So people are doing research invery specific areas, it's like
you don't need to provide 10products was like But if you
provide really one really goodone, and you know the ins and

(42:41):
outs of it, we want to work withwith those people. And the other
goal is expanding from there. Sowe're looking at drink powders,
different mixes, in gummies, andsoft gels, we're looking at
expanding those not only withother types of natural
ingredients, so turmeric,ginger, but also other minor
cannabinoids, so CBN CBG, to bemore use case specific. So CBD

(43:03):
can impact people in a prettywide range. We wanted to offer
what we call CBD only right now.
So people could understand well,what's your tolerance? A lot of
people are new consumers, butpeople who they they will know
exactly what to go to. But forthose who don't figuring out
what's the most impactful formatfor you, because it's not all

(43:26):
the same. Whether you if youingest it or take it
subliminally, you have a reallydifferent impact. And then
getting taking that and addingmore from there because we also
we don't want to overwhelmpeople. With so many choices.
You

don't want to become Cheesecake Factory.
Exactly. Yeah.

Just a girl from Ohio. Yes. Give me Give me
40 different cheeses. Thebiggest menu ever, and I'm just
a happy camper. It's very, it'soverwhelmed. It's so
overwhelming. And even finally,you just the waitress comes to
you and you're like,

when you're hungry. You're like, I can't pay

that top one.
Yeah, there are a lot ofdifferent areas. So we're, we're
focused on the use case and nota lot of times it will be like
okay, well who is yourdemographic, our demographic is
really everybody because youcould have somebody who is 25 to
30 dealing with physical painthat a 7580 year old is as well
so like to say it should be likethis age group and you know,

(44:26):
male or female, it's universal.
And that's not to say that we'retrying to be everything to
everybody. Yeah, just saying itapplies. It applies just just
like Advil applies, right? Yeah.
We we hope to be able to offerjust a range and even in our
early days for our ambassadorsso far, it's a range of it's
both male and female. Okay agesbecause people have found relief

(44:51):
with the product. One of ourmore recent products that we've
released is a nighttime gummythat is see and melatonin. And
for someone like me, I if I takejust melatonin I feel very
groggy the next day, but the mixwith CBD is it's has been a nice
balance. So you sleep sleep welland don't feel kind of that

(45:12):
melatonin hangover, which iswhat I someone like me and not
everybody feels that way. Butwe've been great responses to
that. Yeah, just a wide mixthere. And then for physical
pain, like we have a lot ofpeople who use it for the balm
that we have for recovery,sports recovery. Yeah, just
after working out and soremuscles. And so, you know, that
can just apply to so manypeople.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay, so I'm
trying to figure out whichquestion I want to ask. Because
they're two very differentdirection. Okay. But I'm gonna
I'm gonna do this one, becausewe might be able to get back to
the other one. But this is moreimportant. So investment wise.
Yeah. I guess, you know, when itcomes to investing in, you know,

(45:59):
new businesses, and, you know,social equity and like, kind of
trying to figure out how toproperly represent people. I
mean, you got you said, youmentioned, seven investments
that you guys had made? How doyou guys identify the kinds of
investments you want to make?
Like, what are the kind of keyfactors that you look at when
making those

decisions?
Yeah. So Jacqueline, and I havebeen engaged in a lot of
different parts of the industry.
So have a pretty broad lens, youknow, we want to we look for
innovation, we look for theintersection of consumer and
technology and longer thosetrends will be meeting with non
cannabis as well. Because at theend of the day, that, yes, it's
all cannabis today. But when youthink of the points of

(46:37):
intersection, it'spharmaceutical, it's CPG. It's
its technology, its compliance,like they're, they're just so
many different touch points. Sowe're interested in that because
then you can, from an investmentstandpoint, the your tam is so
much bigger, and maybe nottoday. But you can see where
that potentially goes. And sothat's that those areas are

(46:59):
really interesting to us. We arebig believers in brands and
consumer products and theevolution of those products like
we're drinking can right now.
Yeah, beverage is, I think goingto be one of the leading
categories in cannabis. Notmaybe not today. You see it
growing. But today, compared tothree years ago, it's night and
day. Yeah. I remember talkingabout a beverage investment

(47:22):
several years ago, with anothergroup that I was working with,
and we're everybody's like, it'sway too small. dispensaries
didn't have coolers, you know,they weren't set up for this
type of distribution. And it'sstill challenging today. But you
can see where that's going.
Yeah. It's not just cannabisbeverages. You're already seeing
people shifting from tobacco andalcohol into healthier products.

(47:47):
Yeah. So those companies aregoing to want to have a
footprint. Yeah. And withcannabis beverage.

Well, I mean, like the first time I saw I
didn't see a cannabis beverage,but I saw CBD beverage. Yeah.
And the first time I saw thatwas at a gym. I was at Barry's
boot camp, okay. And I likewalked in there. I was like,
holy shit. Like, this is crazy.
This is like maybe two yearsago, and I just happened I
looked at the bottles like thisis really cool. And it had like,
amazing flavors. And then Ilooked at the back of it, and it

(48:14):
was owned by someone I knew. AndI was like, Oh my God, that's
funny. Yeah, so like, and then Icontacted him and I was like,
This is awesome. And then he wastelling me about all the
challenges they were facing asas a company just doing CBD
beverages. And that was likecouple years ago so I now
they're a little bit moreobviously streamlined. And they
they did get they did get arated B and they did get their
product taken. And it's justkind of amazing like that, that

(48:37):
it's come such a far away orthat even one that it's come a
far away but then also that thateven happened over CBD.

Yeah. And you know, until the 2018 farm bill
was passed, which was December2018. CBD was illegal. Yeah. And
yeah, you know, derive it'strue. You couldn't derive it
from cannabis and sell it openlyin the market. Any CBD that was
in the US was from Canada orChina right? And it was $25,000
a kilo not $500 A kilo yesterdayso you've seen that massive

(49:10):
shift and and the flood in themarket and to be honest beverage
a couple years ago, mostproducts didn't taste very good.
Yeah, it's the that shift aswell that the innovation
evolution that's happened withhow do you formulate better with
cannabinoids, which is not easy.
There's a there's a flavor someit can be. You can taste it.
Yeah. And it's also it's thedevelopment of the palette,

(49:32):
right? There hasn't been theopportunity. It takes a while
for consumers to then developthat palette

and oh, we talk about wine all the time. Like
you know, nobody, like the firsttime you had wine. Did you
really love it? Probably not.

You're like, this is great. Yeah, like, I
know it's very expensive. Yeah,

I like it. But

so do this takes time. This takes years to
develop and and so we're excitedabout brands, you know, We
obviously have Commons. But thenthere's a there are a lot of
different things outside ofthat, that we think are
different verticals within justconsumer products that are
interesting. So we look at, whatare those innovative products
that are continuing to happen?
What are ones that we think aregoing to be powering the

(50:13):
industry, you know, either ananalytics or other ingredient,
innovation things along thoselines. So it's it's brought in
that sense, but at the sametime, they all kind of intersect
around how does it affect theday to day of the consumer?

Do you think for investors in general, right now,
you were talking about theintersection of technology and
cannabis. And there are a lot ofcompanies that are doing in
ciliary products, because theydon't want to deal with the red
tape of what cannabis brings.
And, or they just, they want tohave a business now, and they
don't have to want to have towait. Yeah. Do you think
investors are looking at that aslike, Oh, this is the safer bet?
Or is it just that, you know,this is uh, this is a sound

(50:54):
decision at this time? Becauseof the way things are like, Why
would you be looking at thatversus like cannabis company?

I think it's, it's a mix, when you look at
plant touching and going first,starting with cultivation,
cultivation is agricultural.
Yeah, at the end of the day, incannabis, it has been
constrained and structured incertain ways where it perhaps
has inflated value in that, butif you allow it to just operate
it as agriculture, it's going tobe all about volume, there's

(51:24):
going to be continued pricecompression, you know, it's
it's, the supply chain willstart separating a lot more. And
where's value most captured atthe end of the day? So for
ancillary investors, it I'veseen a mix of things and even
you know, for my own evaluationof it, one, there's the ability
to understand a lot of it nevercannabis is complicated. And to

(51:47):
understand, why would you investin this cultivator in California
versus Michigan and verticallyintegrated or not retail versus
distribution versus justcultivation? Micro license, you
know, MSO, it's a lot to you canfollow the headlines, but it can
be pretty overwhelming,especially, I mean, particularly
if you're not operating withinthe industry. So to understand

(52:10):
the nuance of all of that, whatdoes it mean to be in a limited
licensed state versus not? Youknow, what is the impact of on
that business? So with ancillarybusinesses, I think for people
who maybe they understand tech,not not necessarily cannabis,
but tech, they understand how toevaluate the business itself and
how the the impact that it willhave, they understand insurance,

(52:32):
they understand, you know, data,and those businesses have the
significant place in cannabis,but then eventually, we'll be
able to translate into broadermarket. When you think of
Nielsen collecting all thisconsumer data. There's, there's
a lot of value in that. So youcan you can see the path, I
think a little bit more clearlyfor a lot of investors and being

(52:54):
able to understand the likenessand like where it's gonna go.
Right. Right. And for a lot ofpeople cannabis is the plant
touching side of it. It's justit's very complex. And so they,
they want to go with what theyknow. But they know that they're
able to fully diligence in a waythat they understand I mean,
even Jacqueline and I, we'vewe've looked at Tech
opportunities, we're not techpeople. And will we know what we

(53:15):
don't know? Yeah, there's,there's certain things that we
can like wrap our heads around,but we're like, either, we've
had to pass on opportunitieswhere we think it's a good
investment, we'll probably gonnakick ourselves for not doing it,
but we don't fully understandit. And we maybe can't get there
in the timeline that they need.
And so you kind of you kind ofhave to pick your bets at that

(53:36):
point. Either you just decide todive in or or pass on it,
because we're not totally surewhat this means. And well, I
mean, after all, it's aninvestment, you're never, ever
totally sure of everything getto like a certain percentage of
comfort. Yeah. And if you can'tget there, then probably hard
time selling it to yourinvestors. But then I think to
your point earlier, there is acomfort for some on not being

(54:02):
plant touching because they feelmore protected. It's like safer
from any federal crackdown thatpotentially happens. And that
makes sense to you. It's likeyou want to participate but you
don't, you're not ready to jumptwo feet in. And there has been
a lack of clarity on what's thedirection you know, you see some

(54:24):
things happen in some states andnot the other and so I don't
blame investors for wanting tojust be cautious and where they
play. When somebody does oneplant touching investment then
they're just kind of all inYeah, like okay, like might as
well it's like whether it's thisor

Yeah, whether like waist up in the pool or
chest up. It doesn't reallymatter. Yeah. So

but we've seen a lot of investors just
stay on the answer side. Arethey really waiting for federal
legalization or only wanting towork with trade businesses that
are on the US exchanges? Notnecessarily right and you know,
for liquidity and just volume tojust be able to understand those
dynamics,

forgive me if I missed this earlier, but it
sounds to me like this is likealmost like an opportunity like
these people are, you know,becoming like almost like bud
tenders. And they're passing onthis information, right. And
it's so cool, you know thatthey're being educated. But is,
is there a possibility thatthey'll eventually be able to do

(55:21):
THC related products as well?
Because like, I mean, I see,like a football Sunday being
like, Bill, you know, theneighbor coming over and just
being like, have you smelledthis bud? Yeah. Have you know,
I've been mowing the lawn allweekend with us. Like, I mean,
how far away? Do you think we'refrom something like that in
relationship? Yeah,

that that is our longer term goal there. It's
complex to be able to do rightnow, because of one it would
have to be state by state. Andthe license types don't actually
allow for, you know, anindividual to be able to see. So
we're working on will not legalanyway. Yeah. And but we think

(55:59):
there'll be an evolutionregulation as well. And we're
trying to figure out what doesthat look like, if is it
feasible in the next 12 to 18months, like what needs to
happen? The reality is that thestate by state element also
creates a challenge, becausethen you'd have to set up in it.
In every state, you have its ownsupply chain. So do

(56:20):
manufacturing on a state bystate basis. The benefit of CBD
is that we're able to do itacross the country and
manufacturing one location shipeverywhere. That gets more
complicated, obviously, incannabis. But that is the longer
term goal. And you're kind ofgoing back to like, people
should be this is a peer to peertransaction. So at the end of
the day, like that's, you shouldhave the ability to do that. And

(56:42):
hopefully,

I'm on sign on now.

With us, and we, you know, we kick around
just different ideas on on,where do you even start, so
maybe we will start doing THCeducation, being able to allow
people to just start learning,and so they can, they can build
that into their own as anambassador to build that into
the dialogue that they're havingwith people. And hopefully, we

(57:10):
can, you know, this is we won'tderive an income, but like,
direct them the things in theirhome states, and what the
regulation is, what are theopportunities, what dispensaries
are available, what are theproduct types, so we can kind of
be the guide on that side, andthen hopefully, get to the point
where we are. So you're buildingbrand loyalty to or building

(57:31):
trust, right? That's, that'sreally at the end of the day is
it's about trust. And if you canget people to trust you, then
everything is possible, becauseyou want to be able to just keep
sharing information, and thenthey want to share it back with
you. And that's that's the powerof what can eventually develop
is that the sharing ofinformation that we can kind of
have back and forth. So it youknow, we'll see what happens and

(57:55):
how long that timeline takes.
Sometimes I'm like, maybe wejust like do a little test here.
Like how long?

Why no individual's like, I know an
individual's specifically inDenver, he's a personality, and
it was a big radio personality,but he has the he has legal
direct, he can deliver, hehasn't delivered yet. License.
Yes. So

what you could potentially do is in a
location where delivery isallowed, and you have a delivery
license, you're able tomanufacture your product, then
you could in theory, buy throughone of our ambassadors and we
could deliver it. Right. It'sit's hard to do at scale in that
specific dynamic, but that'slikely an are the one of the

(58:42):
first iterations that we wouldtry to do. And, you know,
looking at, we're keeping an eyeon New York, to see what happens
with the various licenses andregulation timeline. But if you
could do potentially a retaillocation, and we think of like a
smaller footprint, but just incase people want to come, right,
right, talk to someone, and theywould be ambassadors, hopefully

(59:03):
that are working that location,so your local bud tender, and
then would have delivery. Andthat's really how product would
have to be distributed. Sofingers crossed, we'll see where
it goes. But I'll keep youposted. Yeah.

Well, though, this is a perfect stopping
point. And thank you so much foryour time. We didn't get to my
other question. Oh, no, but thatjust means we'll have to have
you back next time. Yeah,absolutely. This is really
awesome. And I think a lot ofinformation people like to hear
you know, how how brands aredeveloping and then also like,
how does the money come? Right?
Yeah, like it's like

a big question. Yeah, money.

Money. So thank you so much for joining me and
we'll see you guys next time.
Thank you. The Green Roompodcast is brought to life by
green seed PR, cannabis greentech focused PR agency and a
dedicated production team ofeditors mixers and show Booker's
a huge thank you to the vesselteam for providing their studio
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Ep 44 - Changing The Way We Look At The CBD Industry. An interview w/ Tahira Rehmatullah, Co-Founder, Commons

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 44 - Changing The Way We Look At The CBD Industry. An interview w/ Tahira Rehmatullah, Co-Founder, Commons