We caught up with Max Armstrong from Learn Brands at mjbizcon 2021. This year, they are such a cruel educational technology platform for the cannabis industry. They offer a wide range of services from introductory classes to state mandated compliance training. Learn Brands has delivered over 60,000 hours of training through its platform.
Max believes that approximately 80% of purchases come from the recommendations of budtenders. They're your most powerful brand ambassador. So, giving them accurate information, letting them know about the products sold in their stores, is really vital. As a result, the retailer has a lot of incentive just for having a more educated staff.
Listen to this episode to discover what Learn Brands can do for your cannabis-based business.
Max holds a BA in Communications, Environmental Studies, and a Minor in Oceanic and Atmospheric Studies from the University of Colorado.
Connect w/ Learn Brands:
https://www.learnbrands.com/
https://www.facebook.com/learnbrands/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnbrands/
https://www.instagram.com/learnbrands/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ronjini Joshua (00:04):
We caught up with Max Armstrong from learn
brands at mjbizcon. This year,they are such a cruel
educational technology platformfor brands to be able to give
information to bud tenders andbud tenders, as we all know, are
the new influencers. So listento this interview to learn how
Max and learned brands arereally helping retailers,
(00:26):
educate consumers, and how we'reeducating bud tenders to create
a really awesome profession forthe cannabis industry and
educate and create knowledgebase that can kind of carry over
for both brands and retailers.
Now let's step into the greenroom
with Max Armstrong, the generalmanager of learn brands, Hi,
(00:50):
Max, how are you?
Max Armstrong (00:50):
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Ronjini Joshua (00:52):
Absolutely. So first, we're gonna kind of
talking about mjbizcon. Um, youguys are exhibiting at the Expo.
What was like kind of the mostexciting thing that you were
anticipating as you came toVegas this year?
Max Armstrong (01:04):
Yeah, I mean, our company is across 15 different
states. So it's just acollective space where a lot of
our clients and leads are goingto be all in one space. So we're
just setting up a lot ofmeetings and having a lot of
FaceTime with the partners thatwe've been working with for a
long time. And is this yourfirst time at mjbizcon as an
exhibitor we've exhibited twice.
Ronjini Joshua (01:23):
Oh, okay. Okay, so you guys are seasoned vet?
Max Armstrong (01:27):
We've gone through the ropes once or twice.
Yeah, well, what is like kind ofthe anticipation of what you
guys are kind of hoping toaccomplish while you're here at
the show? Yeah, it's reallyFaceTime. I mean, it's such a
good place to actually get inperson interactions, get quality
feedback, get away from the Zoomcalls a little bit, you know,
all of our stuff is online andremote being a tech platform and
(01:47):
training. So I think there's alot of merit to actually getting
to sit down and have you know, alunch or a meal with your
clients and get some dialoguewhere you can get real feedback,
as opposed to just a quick emailhere and there. Yeah, so that's
a great segue into learn as a asa company. But first, before we
get to learn, I want to talkabout you a little bit and kind
(02:08):
of your journey, your journeyinto the cannabis industry. What
What led you here? How did youget started? Yeah, yeah, it's,
it's all about, uh, you know,exactly. And my background came
from the outdoor industry. I wasworking for a public relations
company working with a varietybrands like Under Armour,
Canada, and grew group. And,yeah, from the outdoor industry,
(02:28):
I really saw the power of theinfluencer, there were some
platforms similar to learnbrands being leveraged in that
industry. So when I gotconnected to this position, I
really saw the merit in thecompany. And my journey for
getting in the cannabis industryis I had a buddy who was doing
education, specifically forJuana. So that was his title in
the company. And yet, he foundout about learn brands, because
(02:51):
he was looking to push trainingon wanna products to the
retailer selling their brand.
And that's where he was exposedto our platform learn brands,
which is designed to help brandseducate the retailer about their
products. And from the retailperspective, they're able to get
all the courses for every singlebrand sold, sold in their
stores. In one easy to useplatform. Okay, so are you did
(03:11):
you have like, how did you guysdevelop the platform? And where
are you today? Like, how does itkind of work? Give me like a
quick rundown of how everythingworks with training. Yeah,
absolutely. So building theplatform, we are built off of a
foundation that's used learn.
It's a learning managementsystem that's used at a
(03:31):
university level. So weessentially had the platform.
And the whole goal is to getmore and more content that makes
us more valuable. So we'vepartnered with over 200 plus
brands across 15 states rightnow. And we have an agency that
helps these brands build anddistribute their education.
Okay, so looking back to one asan example, we're going to work
with their creative team, theirmarketing team, their education
(03:54):
team, to build a lesson that'sdesigned around their specific
product skews. And then afterthe budtender goes through that
lesson, it's going to beinteractive, they're going to
engage with that content,they're going to learn every
little selling point. So in abusy sales environment, they're
able to talk articulately aboutthat random product. And as a
reward, they're actually goingto get incentivized with a
(04:17):
sample. Okay? Which really tiesinto the educational experience,
being able to learn about aproduct but actually trying it
after Yeah, recommendations offof something that they've
actually had an experience with.
And then after their experiencewith that, they can give the
brand feedback based on theirexperience. So I'm going to now
go back a little bit becauseyou're mentioning that so like,
what like I think there is ahuge pain point, obviously
(04:38):
people going to a distributor orretailer and like not knowing
what to pick and the budget orknows nothing right. You know,
what is the incentive for theretail shops to actually what is
their incentive to implementthis kind of system? Yeah, I
mean, you're gonna have a moreeducated workforce. Yeah, the
bud tender has so muchinfluencing the consumer
(05:00):
purchasing decisions, right? Ithink the stat is over 80% of
the products recommended by thebudtender are purchased. Right.
So the budtender needs to knowwhat they're talking about.
They're like your most powerfulbrand ambassador. Yeah, they are
the the person, the biggestinfluencer in that decision
making process. So giving themaccurate information, letting
them know about the productssold in their stores, is really
(05:20):
vital. So the retailer has a lotof incentive just for having a
more educated staff. But budtenders are going to want to
work in an environment wherethey get to try products, too.
So they're going to be able tosample their workforce, you
know, and there's so muchturnover in this industry.
That's just another edition ofvalue add for being in the
industry, and staying with it.
Ronjini Joshua (05:40):
What is like, you know, I'm not familiar with
the professional progress of abudtender. So what is the kind
of like the, how do you get intoby attending? And like, what is
the progression of that role?
Like? How, like, what exactly isthe end game for that?
Max Armstrong (05:54):
Yeah, I mean, budtenders, honestly, there's so
many different products outthere, there's so many different
positions, they're working theranks up, you know, between the
stores becoming managers, right?
Oftentimes, that's a gatewayinto the industry as a whole. So
they're gonna be working as abudtender. Maybe you transition
into the brand side of things,sales, but there's so much,
there's so much turnover at theposition, you know, that they're
(06:15):
going to come in and out quiteoften, from what we're seeing.
And that's a pain point in theindustry. So being able to have
real time education, for thosenew bud tenders that are coming
in, is really vital. So they cantake a lesson on every single
product immediately once they'rehired.
Ronjini Joshua (06:30):
So that's another thing. There's so many
products, like how long does itkind of go take to go through
these lessons? And, and, youknow, I guess you can kind of
take it as you like, at your ownpace at some point. But like,
you know, how long does it taketo go through these lessons?
Typically?
Max Armstrong (06:46):
Well, we always encourage short and sweet. Yeah,
there are hundreds of productsand hundreds of SKUs on a
dispensary shelf. So is itreasonable to expect a budtender
to know your origin story, everysingle selling point, it is a
little bit unrealistic. So wetalked about short and sweet,
get to the punch line. And ifyou are a brand, what are the
five things you really want abudtender to know and a busy
(07:06):
sales environment and push thosemessage Those include
interactivity, so they engagewith those points, and then
they're able to relay thatinformation in a much better
way.
Ronjini Joshua (07:14):
So what is the lesson look like? Yeah.
Max Armstrong (07:17):
So what are lessons going to look like? It's
going to talk about those madeyourself five points. Yeah. And
we're going to work with ourbrands with whatever assets that
they have, right? So this couldbe marketing material videos,
audios, our system offers gamesin their activity and that
system so they can really engagewith that content? And
Ronjini Joshua (07:36):
did you send the UFC? Click Test after each one?
Max Armstrong (07:39):
Exactly. So the lesson is step one, okay. And
that's gonna be the slide basepresentation. And then they're
going to go into a quiz, whichis the proof that they retain
that information. If they passthat quiz with 100%, they're
going to move to the reward thesample, which can be
merchandise, product samples,gift cards, whatever it is. And
after they've received thatreward, then they can give
feedback.
Ronjini Joshua (08:00):
Okay, cool. And then typically, like, what do
you like? Where do you seeingright now? Are you seeing a good
response of like, people wantingto engage? And how many people
have kind of pick this systemup?
Max Armstrong (08:12):
Yeah, people, bud tenders love this platform.
Okay, the reward is the carroton a stick. And it's why we have
the engagement that we do. Yeah,we're working with over 20,000
bud tenders right now. We have1300 retailers signed up on the
system, and 200 plus brands. Andthat is because the bud tenders
are one they want to learn aboutthese products, you know, they
want to know what they'retalking about. It helps their
(08:33):
tips, you know, when a customerhas a good experience, and they
get a quality productrecommendation, and helps their
growth in their career and learnbrands. The account stays with
the user throughout the entiretyof their career, okay, so they
can be working for onedispensary, get all these
certifications on the brandcourses. And then if they choose
to leave or whatever reason orwant to get promoted within
(08:53):
their own company, they say,Hey, I've got all these courses
here, my certification andbadges. And then as they
transition to new companies, allthat will stay with them. And
they
Ronjini Joshua (09:02):
can show other people like oh, I've done this,
I know about all these differentbrands. Okay, that's really
cool, like, professional assetthat they can carry with them.
What about the brands? How didthey get involved? Because I
mean, I imagine every brandshould have this. What are you
seeing the trends being as faras like, the difficulty of
(09:23):
getting brands on to do thiskind of training? Because it
feels like a whole nother set ofthings that for them to do, you
know, a whole nother set ofmarketing for them to do?
Absolutely. I mean, it'simportant,
Max Armstrong (09:33):
but training is such a burden. And we see from
so many different brands,they're all in a different
position, right, some moreresources than others. Some have
a marketing team, some have afully dedicated education team,
right. But our goal is to takeone of those hats off of the
many roles that they'refulfilling. We've worked with
over 200 brands like we'resaying, so we really understand
(09:53):
how to build this content andour audience of the bud tender.
So building the content is stepone, and that's always been A
barrier. And that's why we'vehad an in house agency to help
create this content. So we canleverage the assets you already
have, or we can build them fromscratch for you. But then the
barrier is engagement rightafter that. Right? Right. So in
markets where we don't have muchof a presence yet, it does take
(10:15):
some buy in from the retailer,it's kind of the chicken or the
egg. Does the retailer sign onfirst? Right brand? Right?
Because from the retailerperspective, the more brands on
the platform, the more incentiveand value there is for them.
Right. From the brandperspective, the more retailers
that are on the system, the morevalue for them. So yeah, it's
just building that communitytogether. We leverage, you know,
(10:36):
relationships and partnerships,referrals from all different
sides. And that's where wereally built our network,
Ronjini Joshua (10:41):
do like retailers kind of go in there.
And like, let's see what kind ofbrands they have first, before
we sign up to make sure that youhave the brands that we carry,
is that usually
Max Armstrong (10:50):
it depends on if they have training solutions
already. Okay. For example, oneof our first dispensaries out in
Oregon chellis Farms, we didn'thave much content out there, but
they needed a training solution.
So they bought into thisplatform, it is completely free
for retailers to use, and said,Hey, I want all my brands to get
on this. So they kind of pushedus and really kick started that
market for us because theywanted their brands to utilize
(11:12):
this tool like us.
Ronjini Joshua (11:15):
Oh, so then at that point, you guys reached out
to the brands? Correct? Okay.
And do you do that? Do you guyslike create? I mean, obviously,
like you said, a lot of peoplehave their own teams, and
everybody has a different amountof resources. But do you also
have the solution to be able tocreate the lessons and do all
that stuff? Yeah,
Max Armstrong (11:31):
absolutely. We have an in house design team.
And it's a full service agency,whatever we need, if we wanted
to create product images, andthen you know, put animations on
top of that, that are built intolessons with those major selling
points that you want to include.
It's very visually appealing.
And yet, when our team gets ourhands on these products, it
really bolsters the industry asa whole in the education that
(11:53):
they're putting out. Because wereally do put a lot of energy
and time and I've seen so manydifferent brands build
education.
Ronjini Joshua (11:59):
Have you guys I mean, I'm just kind of thinking
about the platform. And I momwas feeling like, like, if I
went to like, this is just abroad example. Like if you go
into like a whole foods, and youget to see like brand
information, like do you guys doany other kind of E learning
about brands? And use thatanywhere else?
Max Armstrong (12:19):
Yeah. The other service offerings outside of the
training built by the brand?
Yeah, is we do general educationtargeted towards bud tenders. So
that's going to be informationabout cannabinoids, terpenes,
cannabis science, how to be abud tender courses like that.
And then we're going to go intoresponsible vendor training,
which is also hosted on theplatform. And then if
dispensaries are interested, wedo internal training, so they
(12:41):
can put their own HR documentsonboarding process there, there.
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Got it canbuild all that in our system as
well.
Ronjini Joshua (12:50):
Okay, what is the what is? Like? Can you give
us some tips how to how to be abudtender?
Max Armstrong (12:55):
On how to be a button? Yeah, it's a, it's a
pharmaceutical grade productthat we're working with here.
Okay, so having more educationis the goal, right. And if you
can have quality education,every single product you're
selling, you're going to be ableto make better recommendations.
And from there, you're going tohave a much better consumer
experience. And that's going tolead to growth in your position,
(13:16):
and more tips and everything inbetween.
Ronjini Joshua (13:19):
So do you think I mean, obviously, it's cool for
the budtenders, to be able tohave the information at their
fingertips, and then also, youknow, be able to sample the
product, but because thechemistry of cannabis is so
different from person to person?
How does that really like relay?
You know, obviously, they wantto have, like, if they have a
bad experience with the product,they're not going to recommend
(13:40):
it. So like, how does thatrelate? Because everybody's body
chemistry reacts a little bitdifferently. So are those like,
kind of five talking points thatgo to for each of these things?
Yeah. And
Max Armstrong (13:49):
it's gonna be what was this brand built for?
And that's just trying tomessage around. So if it's a
lifestyle brand, you know,they're gonna push it to that
type of demographic or, youknow, if there's a vegan
product, you know, whensomeone's asking for that style,
you know, everybody's going tohave a different effect, but
there are going to be productstailored towards certain
audiences. Right? And that's thebudtender shop to understand.
Ronjini Joshua (14:08):
Do you think I mean, this is like kind of bad
Tinder trends? But do you thinkthere's gonna be like, a now
that I'm hearing all thisinformation that you're giving
me it's like, kind of making methink though, we specialize bud
tenders in different areas? Andis that, is that a thing? Or do
you think that's something thatwould happen because
Max Armstrong (14:26):
you know, it just like you're saying with brand
loyalty, if they love a product,they're gonna push it over
another one right there budtenders that love concentrates.
You know, they're bud tendersthat love edibles, and they're
going to be more specialized inthat field. Well, I
Ronjini Joshua (14:38):
was even thinking further like, like,
okay, let's say I'm like, I'm anathlete. I'm a health and
fitness, like geek. So I'm gonnalike do look, use all the
products that might help myworkout or help recovery or help
me rest better or whatever and,and kind of focus on that
segment. Yeah. Do you think thatthat buttoning kind of would get
(14:59):
that niche where People willspecialize. And like, I know,
somebody was talking me aboutthe other day like women's
wellness. Yeah. And maybe like,senior, you know, use or
something like that. So like, Idon't know if that's a thing
that's happening yet, but Ithink
Max Armstrong (15:14):
it's an absolutely thing. I mean, yeah,
I'd be interested in whatresonates with them. Yeah. And
to be specialized and be aconsultant away for any consumer
that's interested in the samething that they're, you know,
yeah. Interested in, I thinkthat's definitely gonna create a
better budtender experience andpush that type of messaging to
the consumer. Yeah,
Ben Michaels (15:31):
I got curious. Um, so from a lot of the research
that I've been doing and anunderstanding from people
communicating that, you know, alot of Bud is starting to
gravitate being towards like5050, almost between indica and
sativa. And it is more about thecannabinoids, and terpenes
individuals can personalchemistry. Does your platform
(15:55):
trying to lean away from thewhole, indica sativa? Push? Or
are you still trying to fostersome of that?
Max Armstrong (16:03):
No, it's, it's a really good question. We
definitely I mean, high THC is,we got to get that trend out the
door, we got to separate whatsativa and indica actually do,
and what the experience is fromthe plant, because, honestly, it
can vary across the board. Andthat comes with education. So
when these brands are buildingeducation on those products and
(16:23):
the type of flower that they'reselling, they need to be talking
about the experience thatgenerally is the outcome of
their product. And that'sexactly what we're trying to
push.
Ronjini Joshua (16:32):
That's awesome.
Yeah. So it's really up to thebrand to deliver that content to
right, like I think, dependingon what brands you bring on, I
mean, do you guys, I imagine youdon't discriminate between
brands, like you only do thesekinds of brands? Because you
have to as an educationplatform, kind of include
everybody inclusivity isimportant, right?
Max Armstrong (16:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
We are a neutral platform, wewant to take on as much content
as you can gather, if it's ahardware, you know, like Pax is
a big partner of ours, andthey're just teaching on how to
use their batteries andeverything in between. So yeah,
anybody that's interested inpushing education that the
budtender can use and leveragefor, you know, selling the
products in their stores isdefinitely what we're looking to
host. And
Ronjini Joshua (17:11):
just to kind of reiterate, can you just like,
emphasize, like, how importantright now? I mean, I do agree,
like the budtender is like thebiggest influencer. So like, how
important is that I feel likethe budtender training has kind
of now it's come to a pointwhere people are like, Oh, God,
like we have to do something.
Because otherwise, it's reallyhard to get recognized as a
brand or so many regulations,marketing is difficult. The
(17:32):
Bunder bud tenders the guy to goto you said you had like what
20,000 bud tenders on there.
Like, can anybody get on there?
Even if they're not working fora retailer?
Max Armstrong (17:44):
Currently, the system is set up for retailers
and industry specific, they
Ronjini Joshua (17:48):
have to kind of go through the retailer to get
there. Yep. And
Max Armstrong (17:51):
that's what your catalog is going to be based
around. So the retailer has thedecision to pick which courses
they want their bud tenders tohave access to. Okay, so based
on the company, you work for uswhat your catalogue is gonna
look like. Okay, yep.
Ben Michaels (18:04):
Do you find any what I find really interesting
is with with the budtender. It'slike they need this education,
because that's one of those.
I'll stop going to a dispensary,right? If they tell me just you
know what they smoked last week?
And that's what, but like, a lotof them, you know, we're trying
to Exactly, yeah, but a lot ofthem are also in a situation of
like pushing, whatever, youknow, their GM, once somebody's
(18:24):
like, hey, we need to get thiswherever you get it. Yeah, the
sentence, is there anything thatthe program is doing to kind of
encourage, you know, absolute,you know, education and getting
the absolute right product intotheir hand versus what's going
to get them? You know, the thePlayStation five at the end of
the month? Yeah.
Max Armstrong (18:46):
You know, there's going to be different incentive
programs between retailers. Andwhat we're doing is creating an
equal playing field for allbrands to compete, right. So may
the best brand win is reallywhat it comes down to. And if
you have a great product, andthe budtender has the chance to
sample that product, they'regoing to decide, dictate what's
the best, and they're going topush that product. So we're
creating this playing fieldwhere they have the opportunity
(19:07):
to sample every single brand.
And the brands that honestlypush more samples and have more
face time and are constantlyupdating their education are the
ones that the bud tenders aregonna recognize boast. And those
are the ones that are going towin in the end.
Ronjini Joshua (19:20):
Yeah. No, that's a good point smart. Is there
anything on the platform that wedid not talk about? Because I
want to make sure that we covereverything that's on this, this
really cool platform?
Max Armstrong (19:30):
Yeah, I mean, I would say one thing that's
really important with the systemis the consistent messaging
across state lines, right?
You're going to want to have aconsumer have the same
experience with say, Achieva,choosing Colorado as
Massachusetts, right. So ifyou're pushing consistent
education, and giving the sameexperience for the bud tender
that they have here in Coloradoand Massachusetts, that's going
to create more brand loyalty.
(19:53):
And as you start to expand andgo into more states, you're
going to have a much biggermarket share across the US. So I
think it's it's messaging andhaving real time updates to your
content are two things thatbrands need to leverage more.
Ronjini Joshua (20:05):
That's funny that you say that because it's
the same in marketing and PR,right? Like you have to have
consistent messaging saying thesame thing because they
resonates better. Right. So Imean, yeah, that's a good lesson
for everybody. Well, thank youso much for joining us in the
greenroom will definitely keepin touch and as you guys launch
new brands and stuff, we'd loveto connect with you again in the
future.
Max Armstrong (20:25):
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on.
Ronjini Joshua (20:27):
Thanks, Max.
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(21:14):
Thanks for listening and be well
We caught up with Max Armstrong from learn
brands at mjbizcon. This year,they are such a cruel
educational technology platformfor brands to be able to give
information to bud tenders andbud tenders, as we all know, are
the new influencers. So listento this interview to learn how
Max and learned brands arereally helping retailers,
(00:26):
educate consumers, and how we'reeducating bud tenders to create
a really awesome profession forthe cannabis industry and
educate and create knowledgebase that can kind of carry over
for both brands and retailers.
Now let's step into the greenroom
with Max Armstrong, the generalmanager of learn brands, Hi,
(00:50):
Max, how are you?
Max Armstrong (00:50):
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Ronjini Joshua (00:52):
Absolutely. So first, we're gonna kind of
talking about mjbizcon. Um, youguys are exhibiting at the Expo.
What was like kind of the mostexciting thing that you were
anticipating as you came toVegas this year?
Max Armstrong (01:04):
Yeah, I mean, our company is across 15 different
states. So it's just acollective space where a lot of
our clients and leads are goingto be all in one space. So we're
just setting up a lot ofmeetings and having a lot of
FaceTime with the partners thatwe've been working with for a
long time. And is this yourfirst time at mjbizcon as an
exhibitor we've exhibited twice.
Ronjini Joshua (01:23):
Oh, okay. Okay, so you guys are seasoned vet?
Max Armstrong (01:27):
We've gone through the ropes once or twice.
Yeah, well, what is like kind ofthe anticipation of what you
guys are kind of hoping toaccomplish while you're here at
the show? Yeah, it's reallyFaceTime. I mean, it's such a
good place to actually get inperson interactions, get quality
feedback, get away from the Zoomcalls a little bit, you know,
all of our stuff is online andremote being a tech platform and
(01:47):
training. So I think there's alot of merit to actually getting
to sit down and have you know, alunch or a meal with your
clients and get some dialoguewhere you can get real feedback,
as opposed to just a quick emailhere and there. Yeah, so that's
a great segue into learn as a asa company. But first, before we
get to learn, I want to talkabout you a little bit and kind
(02:08):
of your journey, your journeyinto the cannabis industry. What
What led you here? How did youget started? Yeah, yeah, it's,
it's all about, uh, you know,exactly. And my background came
from the outdoor industry. I wasworking for a public relations
company working with a varietybrands like Under Armour,
Canada, and grew group. And,yeah, from the outdoor industry,
(02:28):
I really saw the power of theinfluencer, there were some
platforms similar to learnbrands being leveraged in that
industry. So when I gotconnected to this position, I
really saw the merit in thecompany. And my journey for
getting in the cannabis industryis I had a buddy who was doing
education, specifically forJuana. So that was his title in
the company. And yet, he foundout about learn brands, because
(02:51):
he was looking to push trainingon wanna products to the
retailer selling their brand.
And that's where he was exposedto our platform learn brands,
which is designed to help brandseducate the retailer about their
products. And from the retailperspective, they're able to get
all the courses for every singlebrand sold, sold in their
stores. In one easy to useplatform. Okay, so are you did
(03:11):
you have like, how did you guysdevelop the platform? And where
are you today? Like, how does itkind of work? Give me like a
quick rundown of how everythingworks with training. Yeah,
absolutely. So building theplatform, we are built off of a
foundation that's used learn.
It's a learning managementsystem that's used at a
(03:31):
university level. So weessentially had the platform.
And the whole goal is to getmore and more content that makes
us more valuable. So we'vepartnered with over 200 plus
brands across 15 states rightnow. And we have an agency that
helps these brands build anddistribute their education.
Okay, so looking back to one asan example, we're going to work
with their creative team, theirmarketing team, their education
(03:54):
team, to build a lesson that'sdesigned around their specific
product skews. And then afterthe budtender goes through that
lesson, it's going to beinteractive, they're going to
engage with that content,they're going to learn every
little selling point. So in abusy sales environment, they're
able to talk articulately aboutthat random product. And as a
reward, they're actually goingto get incentivized with a
(04:17):
sample. Okay? Which really tiesinto the educational experience,
being able to learn about aproduct but actually trying it
after Yeah, recommendations offof something that they've
actually had an experience with.
And then after their experiencewith that, they can give the
brand feedback based on theirexperience. So I'm going to now
go back a little bit becauseyou're mentioning that so like,
what like I think there is ahuge pain point, obviously
(04:38):
people going to a distributor orretailer and like not knowing
what to pick and the budget orknows nothing right. You know,
what is the incentive for theretail shops to actually what is
their incentive to implementthis kind of system? Yeah, I
mean, you're gonna have a moreeducated workforce. Yeah, the
bud tender has so muchinfluencing the consumer
(05:00):
purchasing decisions, right? Ithink the stat is over 80% of
the products recommended by thebudtender are purchased. Right.
So the budtender needs to knowwhat they're talking about.
They're like your most powerfulbrand ambassador. Yeah, they are
the the person, the biggestinfluencer in that decision
making process. So giving themaccurate information, letting
them know about the productssold in their stores, is really
(05:20):
vital. So the retailer has a lotof incentive just for having a
more educated staff. But budtenders are going to want to
work in an environment wherethey get to try products, too.
So they're going to be able tosample their workforce, you
know, and there's so muchturnover in this industry.
That's just another edition ofvalue add for being in the
industry, and staying with it.
Ronjini Joshua (05:40):
What is like, you know, I'm not familiar with
the professional progress of abudtender. So what is the kind
of like the, how do you get intoby attending? And like, what is
the progression of that role?
Like? How, like, what exactly isthe end game for that?
Max Armstrong (05:54):
Yeah, I mean, budtenders, honestly, there's so
many different products outthere, there's so many different
positions, they're working theranks up, you know, between the
stores becoming managers, right?
Oftentimes, that's a gatewayinto the industry as a whole. So
they're gonna be working as abudtender. Maybe you transition
into the brand side of things,sales, but there's so much,
there's so much turnover at theposition, you know, that they're
(06:15):
going to come in and out quiteoften, from what we're seeing.
And that's a pain point in theindustry. So being able to have
real time education, for thosenew bud tenders that are coming
in, is really vital. So they cantake a lesson on every single
product immediately once they'rehired.
Ronjini Joshua (06:30):
So that's another thing. There's so many
products, like how long does itkind of go take to go through
these lessons? And, and, youknow, I guess you can kind of
take it as you like, at your ownpace at some point. But like,
you know, how long does it taketo go through these lessons?
Typically?
Max Armstrong (06:46):
Well, we always encourage short and sweet. Yeah,
there are hundreds of productsand hundreds of SKUs on a
dispensary shelf. So is itreasonable to expect a budtender
to know your origin story, everysingle selling point, it is a
little bit unrealistic. So wetalked about short and sweet,
get to the punch line. And ifyou are a brand, what are the
five things you really want abudtender to know and a busy
(07:06):
sales environment and push thosemessage Those include
interactivity, so they engagewith those points, and then
they're able to relay thatinformation in a much better
way.
Ronjini Joshua (07:14):
So what is the lesson look like? Yeah.
Max Armstrong (07:17):
So what are lessons going to look like? It's
going to talk about those madeyourself five points. Yeah. And
we're going to work with ourbrands with whatever assets that
they have, right? So this couldbe marketing material videos,
audios, our system offers gamesin their activity and that
system so they can really engagewith that content? And
Ronjini Joshua (07:36):
did you send the UFC? Click Test after each one?
Max Armstrong (07:39):
Exactly. So the lesson is step one, okay. And
that's gonna be the slide basepresentation. And then they're
going to go into a quiz, whichis the proof that they retain
that information. If they passthat quiz with 100%, they're
going to move to the reward thesample, which can be
merchandise, product samples,gift cards, whatever it is. And
after they've received thatreward, then they can give
feedback.
Ronjini Joshua (08:00):
Okay, cool. And then typically, like, what do
you like? Where do you seeingright now? Are you seeing a good
response of like, people wantingto engage? And how many people
have kind of pick this systemup?
Max Armstrong (08:12):
Yeah, people, bud tenders love this platform.
Okay, the reward is the carroton a stick. And it's why we have
the engagement that we do. Yeah,we're working with over 20,000
bud tenders right now. We have1300 retailers signed up on the
system, and 200 plus brands. Andthat is because the bud tenders
are one they want to learn aboutthese products, you know, they
want to know what they'retalking about. It helps their
(08:33):
tips, you know, when a customerhas a good experience, and they
get a quality productrecommendation, and helps their
growth in their career and learnbrands. The account stays with
the user throughout the entiretyof their career, okay, so they
can be working for onedispensary, get all these
certifications on the brandcourses. And then if they choose
to leave or whatever reason orwant to get promoted within
(08:53):
their own company, they say,Hey, I've got all these courses
here, my certification andbadges. And then as they
transition to new companies, allthat will stay with them. And
they
Ronjini Joshua (09:02):
can show other people like oh, I've done this,
I know about all these differentbrands. Okay, that's really
cool, like, professional assetthat they can carry with them.
What about the brands? How didthey get involved? Because I
mean, I imagine every brandshould have this. What are you
seeing the trends being as faras like, the difficulty of
(09:23):
getting brands on to do thiskind of training? Because it
feels like a whole nother set ofthings that for them to do, you
know, a whole nother set ofmarketing for them to do?
Absolutely. I mean, it'simportant,
Max Armstrong (09:33):
but training is such a burden. And we see from
so many different brands,they're all in a different
position, right, some moreresources than others. Some have
a marketing team, some have afully dedicated education team,
right. But our goal is to takeone of those hats off of the
many roles that they'refulfilling. We've worked with
over 200 brands like we'resaying, so we really understand
(09:53):
how to build this content andour audience of the bud tender.
So building the content is stepone, and that's always been A
barrier. And that's why we'vehad an in house agency to help
create this content. So we canleverage the assets you already
have, or we can build them fromscratch for you. But then the
barrier is engagement rightafter that. Right? Right. So in
markets where we don't have muchof a presence yet, it does take
(10:15):
some buy in from the retailer,it's kind of the chicken or the
egg. Does the retailer sign onfirst? Right brand? Right?
Because from the retailerperspective, the more brands on
the platform, the more incentiveand value there is for them.
Right. From the brandperspective, the more retailers
that are on the system, the morevalue for them. So yeah, it's
just building that communitytogether. We leverage, you know,
(10:36):
relationships and partnerships,referrals from all different
sides. And that's where wereally built our network,
Ronjini Joshua (10:41):
do like retailers kind of go in there.
And like, let's see what kind ofbrands they have first, before
we sign up to make sure that youhave the brands that we carry,
is that usually
Max Armstrong (10:50):
it depends on if they have training solutions
already. Okay. For example, oneof our first dispensaries out in
Oregon chellis Farms, we didn'thave much content out there, but
they needed a training solution.
So they bought into thisplatform, it is completely free
for retailers to use, and said,Hey, I want all my brands to get
on this. So they kind of pushedus and really kick started that
market for us because theywanted their brands to utilize
(11:12):
this tool like us.
Ronjini Joshua (11:15):
Oh, so then at that point, you guys reached out
to the brands? Correct? Okay.
And do you do that? Do you guyslike create? I mean, obviously,
like you said, a lot of peoplehave their own teams, and
everybody has a different amountof resources. But do you also
have the solution to be able tocreate the lessons and do all
that stuff? Yeah,
Max Armstrong (11:31):
absolutely. We have an in house design team.
And it's a full service agency,whatever we need, if we wanted
to create product images, andthen you know, put animations on
top of that, that are built intolessons with those major selling
points that you want to include.
It's very visually appealing.
And yet, when our team gets ourhands on these products, it
really bolsters the industry asa whole in the education that
(11:53):
they're putting out. Because wereally do put a lot of energy
and time and I've seen so manydifferent brands build
education.
Ronjini Joshua (11:59):
Have you guys I mean, I'm just kind of thinking
about the platform. And I momwas feeling like, like, if I
went to like, this is just abroad example. Like if you go
into like a whole foods, and youget to see like brand
information, like do you guys doany other kind of E learning
about brands? And use thatanywhere else?
Max Armstrong (12:19):
Yeah. The other service offerings outside of the
training built by the brand?
Yeah, is we do general educationtargeted towards bud tenders. So
that's going to be informationabout cannabinoids, terpenes,
cannabis science, how to be abud tender courses like that.
And then we're going to go intoresponsible vendor training,
which is also hosted on theplatform. And then if
dispensaries are interested, wedo internal training, so they
(12:41):
can put their own HR documentsonboarding process there, there.
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Got it canbuild all that in our system as
well.
Ronjini Joshua (12:50):
Okay, what is the what is? Like? Can you give
us some tips how to how to be abudtender?
Max Armstrong (12:55):
On how to be a button? Yeah, it's a, it's a
pharmaceutical grade productthat we're working with here.
Okay, so having more educationis the goal, right. And if you
can have quality education,every single product you're
selling, you're going to be ableto make better recommendations.
And from there, you're going tohave a much better consumer
experience. And that's going tolead to growth in your position,
(13:16):
and more tips and everything inbetween.
Ronjini Joshua (13:19):
So do you think I mean, obviously, it's cool for
the budtenders, to be able tohave the information at their
fingertips, and then also, youknow, be able to sample the
product, but because thechemistry of cannabis is so
different from person to person?
How does that really like relay?
You know, obviously, they wantto have, like, if they have a
bad experience with the product,they're not going to recommend
(13:40):
it. So like, how does thatrelate? Because everybody's body
chemistry reacts a little bitdifferently. So are those like,
kind of five talking points thatgo to for each of these things?
Yeah. And
Max Armstrong (13:49):
it's gonna be what was this brand built for?
And that's just trying tomessage around. So if it's a
lifestyle brand, you know,they're gonna push it to that
type of demographic or, youknow, if there's a vegan
product, you know, whensomeone's asking for that style,
you know, everybody's going tohave a different effect, but
there are going to be productstailored towards certain
audiences. Right? And that's thebudtender shop to understand.
Ronjini Joshua (14:08):
Do you think I mean, this is like kind of bad
Tinder trends? But do you thinkthere's gonna be like, a now
that I'm hearing all thisinformation that you're giving
me it's like, kind of making methink though, we specialize bud
tenders in different areas? Andis that, is that a thing? Or do
you think that's something thatwould happen because
Max Armstrong (14:26):
you know, it just like you're saying with brand
loyalty, if they love a product,they're gonna push it over
another one right there budtenders that love concentrates.
You know, they're bud tendersthat love edibles, and they're
going to be more specialized inthat field. Well, I
Ronjini Joshua (14:38):
was even thinking further like, like,
okay, let's say I'm like, I'm anathlete. I'm a health and
fitness, like geek. So I'm gonnalike do look, use all the
products that might help myworkout or help recovery or help
me rest better or whatever and,and kind of focus on that
segment. Yeah. Do you think thatthat buttoning kind of would get
(14:59):
that niche where People willspecialize. And like, I know,
somebody was talking me aboutthe other day like women's
wellness. Yeah. And maybe like,senior, you know, use or
something like that. So like, Idon't know if that's a thing
that's happening yet, but Ithink
Max Armstrong (15:14):
it's an absolutely thing. I mean, yeah,
I'd be interested in whatresonates with them. Yeah. And
to be specialized and be aconsultant away for any consumer
that's interested in the samething that they're, you know,
yeah. Interested in, I thinkthat's definitely gonna create a
better budtender experience andpush that type of messaging to
the consumer. Yeah,
Ben Michaels (15:31):
I got curious. Um, so from a lot of the research
that I've been doing and anunderstanding from people
communicating that, you know, alot of Bud is starting to
gravitate being towards like5050, almost between indica and
sativa. And it is more about thecannabinoids, and terpenes
individuals can personalchemistry. Does your platform
(15:55):
trying to lean away from thewhole, indica sativa? Push? Or
are you still trying to fostersome of that?
Max Armstrong (16:03):
No, it's, it's a really good question. We
definitely I mean, high THC is,we got to get that trend out the
door, we got to separate whatsativa and indica actually do,
and what the experience is fromthe plant, because, honestly, it
can vary across the board. Andthat comes with education. So
when these brands are buildingeducation on those products and
(16:23):
the type of flower that they'reselling, they need to be talking
about the experience thatgenerally is the outcome of
their product. And that'sexactly what we're trying to
push.
Ronjini Joshua (16:32):
That's awesome.
Yeah. So it's really up to thebrand to deliver that content to
right, like I think, dependingon what brands you bring on, I
mean, do you guys, I imagine youdon't discriminate between
brands, like you only do thesekinds of brands? Because you
have to as an educationplatform, kind of include
everybody inclusivity isimportant, right?
Max Armstrong (16:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
We are a neutral platform, wewant to take on as much content
as you can gather, if it's ahardware, you know, like Pax is
a big partner of ours, andthey're just teaching on how to
use their batteries andeverything in between. So yeah,
anybody that's interested inpushing education that the
budtender can use and leveragefor, you know, selling the
products in their stores isdefinitely what we're looking to
host. And
Ronjini Joshua (17:11):
just to kind of reiterate, can you just like,
emphasize, like, how importantright now? I mean, I do agree,
like the budtender is like thebiggest influencer. So like, how
important is that I feel likethe budtender training has kind
of now it's come to a pointwhere people are like, Oh, God,
like we have to do something.
Because otherwise, it's reallyhard to get recognized as a
brand or so many regulations,marketing is difficult. The
(17:32):
Bunder bud tenders the guy to goto you said you had like what
20,000 bud tenders on there.
Like, can anybody get on there?
Even if they're not working fora retailer?
Max Armstrong (17:44):
Currently, the system is set up for retailers
and industry specific, they
Ronjini Joshua (17:48):
have to kind of go through the retailer to get
there. Yep. And
Max Armstrong (17:51):
that's what your catalog is going to be based
around. So the retailer has thedecision to pick which courses
they want their bud tenders tohave access to. Okay, so based
on the company, you work for uswhat your catalogue is gonna
look like. Okay, yep.
Ben Michaels (18:04):
Do you find any what I find really interesting
is with with the budtender. It'slike they need this education,
because that's one of those.
I'll stop going to a dispensary,right? If they tell me just you
know what they smoked last week?
And that's what, but like, a lotof them, you know, we're trying
to Exactly, yeah, but a lot ofthem are also in a situation of
like pushing, whatever, youknow, their GM, once somebody's
(18:24):
like, hey, we need to get thiswherever you get it. Yeah, the
sentence, is there anything thatthe program is doing to kind of
encourage, you know, absolute,you know, education and getting
the absolute right product intotheir hand versus what's going
to get them? You know, the thePlayStation five at the end of
the month? Yeah.
Max Armstrong (18:46):
You know, there's going to be different incentive
programs between retailers. Andwhat we're doing is creating an
equal playing field for allbrands to compete, right. So may
the best brand win is reallywhat it comes down to. And if
you have a great product, andthe budtender has the chance to
sample that product, they'regoing to decide, dictate what's
the best, and they're going topush that product. So we're
creating this playing fieldwhere they have the opportunity
(19:07):
to sample every single brand.
And the brands that honestlypush more samples and have more
face time and are constantlyupdating their education are the
ones that the bud tenders aregonna recognize boast. And those
are the ones that are going towin in the end.
Ronjini Joshua (19:20):
Yeah. No, that's a good point smart. Is there
anything on the platform that wedid not talk about? Because I
want to make sure that we covereverything that's on this, this
really cool platform?
Max Armstrong (19:30):
Yeah, I mean, I would say one thing that's
really important with the systemis the consistent messaging
across state lines, right?
You're going to want to have aconsumer have the same
experience with say, Achieva,choosing Colorado as
Massachusetts, right. So ifyou're pushing consistent
education, and giving the sameexperience for the bud tender
that they have here in Coloradoand Massachusetts, that's going
to create more brand loyalty.
(19:53):
And as you start to expand andgo into more states, you're
going to have a much biggermarket share across the US. So I
think it's it's messaging andhaving real time updates to your
content are two things thatbrands need to leverage more.
Ronjini Joshua (20:05):
That's funny that you say that because it's
the same in marketing and PR,right? Like you have to have
consistent messaging saying thesame thing because they
resonates better. Right. So Imean, yeah, that's a good lesson
for everybody. Well, thank youso much for joining us in the
greenroom will definitely keepin touch and as you guys launch
new brands and stuff, we'd loveto connect with you again in the
future.
Max Armstrong (20:25):
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on.
Ronjini Joshua (20:27):
Thanks, Max.
Cheers. The Green Room podcastis brought to life by green seed
PR, cannabis green tech focusedPR agency, and a dedicated
production team of editorsmixers and show Booker's. A huge
thank you to the vessel team forproviding their studio for our
recordings. Don't forget tosubscribe and share the
greenroom podcast with friends,colleagues and family. That way
(20:48):
you'll never miss an episode andwe can keep the lights on. If
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Please leave us review onfavorite podcast listening
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(21:14):
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