April 22, 2025 • 31 mins
Dan Starr, president and CEO of Do it Best Group, shares insights on strategic acquisitions, technology, and branding to help independent lumber yards and hardware stores thrive against big-box competition.
• Discussing Do it Best's recent acquisition of True Value after many years of conversation between the companies
• Spring Market in Orlando setting records with over 10,000 attendees from both Do it Best and True Value members
• Scale matters in distribution, providing independents with competitive advantages through efficient warehousing and logistics
• Technology and data analysis help identify not just what's selling but what's missing from inventory
• De-risking lumber trading through futures and hedging strategies offered to members
• Finding specialization in specific categories provides higher margins and customer loyalty
• Building strong brands through consistent execution rather than just advertising
• Social media presence should showcase both products and personality to distinguish from competitors
• Servant leadership culture creates responsive customer service and genuine commitment to member success
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stefanie Couch (00:00):
You are the champion of independence and you
and your business is reallystructured around that and
helping independent lumber yardsand retail hardware stores grow
and thrive and compete with thebig boys and girls.
A lot of people have data, butit's so difficult to figure out
what metrics actually matter.
That's right, because there'sso many.
Dan Starr (00:21):
And the harder thing to find is where the gaps.
You can't measure that so hard,but we can.
Tweaking what you're doing atstore level is an important
thing to always do and it's aconstant thing, and we can help
you with that.
Stefanie Couch (00:33):
Branding out loud, building what you're
showing with your customers isso important and I think people
love to see what lumberyards,hardware stores, builders they
love to see our craft.
Dan Starr (00:44):
Absolutely, and they want to see your personality.
You can get lost in socialmedia.
Be distinct, be unique.
Don't be afraid to have a senseof humor.
People love those things andthey want to see who you
genuinely are.
Stefanie Couch (00:55):
So show it to them.
Some might say buy a pink hat,buy a big old pink hat.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast, the show for bold
builders, brand leaders andlegacy makers in the
construction and buildingindustry.
I'm your host, stephanie Couch,and I've been in this industry
(01:17):
my entire life.
Whether we're breaking downwhat's working in sales and
marketing, new advances in AIand automation, or interviewing
top industry leaders, you'regoing to get real world
strategies to grow your business, build your brand and lead your
team.
Let's get to work.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast.
(01:40):
I'm your host, stephanie Couch,and I'm excited today to be
live and in person with DanStarr, the president and CEO of
Do it Best Group, who hasrecently had a lot of excitement
in your life, and we're heretoday in Orlando at the Spring
Market, the biggest market thatDo it Best has ever had.
Welcome to the show.
Dan Starr (01:58):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
Stefanie Couch (02:00):
And we are here with True Value Lots going on.
You are the CEO, have been herefor a long time and you have
been the CEO since 2016.
But I would venture to say thatmaybe the last year has been
probably the most exciting yearyou've had since you've joined.
Do it Best right.
Dan Starr (02:18):
I would say that is the case.
If excitement and change can bejust kind of correlated, then
the answer is yes by far.
There's been more excitingchange and some really great
things and a lot of difficultcircumstances to navigate.
All that is true.
Stefanie Couch (02:33):
Yeah, exactly, and you have a background that
was really primed for this role,I think, with acquisitions and
mergers, and you've done a lotof that, so let's just dig in.
The first thing that everyone'sgoing to want to know is you
guys bought United Hardware andthen you just recently acquired
True Value, which was a legacycompany, been around a long time
(02:55):
, a very well-known name.
I mean everybody you say, hey,true Value, they know it right.
I even can see the logo in mymind from my childhood True
Value Hardware.
Tell me a little bit about thelast year and about that
acquisition.
Dan Starr (03:07):
Yeah, and please be sure and corral me, I'll have a
tendency to just meander allover the place.
But in many ways it's been along time coming.
You know, you hear anexpression of people becoming a
success overnight, you know, andthey've worked for 20 years and
then suddenly they're a successovernight.
Stefanie Couch (03:24):
Yeah.
Dan Starr (03:24):
There's a similar, there's just a parallel to that.
We have had conversations offand on with True Value for many,
many years.
So their CEO, their prior CEO,their CEO before that.
I've had one-on-oneconversations with all of them
at some level or another aboutsome kind of combination or
acquisition.
It just the timing wasn't right, mainly because True Value had
(03:52):
it's the reason they went intobankruptcy.
They had all these very, verylarge legacy debts and
obligations and that unfortunatetrajectory continued to a point
where it was then no longerviable and that's what triggered
the acquisition and nobody knewwhen that was going to come.
It's been predicted for morethan 20 years.
Stefanie Couch (04:10):
Yeah, they got into a hole they just couldn't
crawl out of.
Dan Starr (04:13):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (04:13):
Yeah Well, it's exciting because we're here at
this market and I heard over10,000 members here with Do it
Best and True Value combined.
Dan Starr (04:22):
Yeah, there's more than 10,000 badges out there,
and there's some vendor badgesas part of that mix too, but
we've never I mean we have moreDo it Best members that are here
than when we were here twoyears ago in Orlando.
Stefanie Couch (04:35):
Yeah, it's amazing.
And then you add all the TrueValue members.
Dan Starr (04:38):
On top of it, with the space we have, it's huge and
it feels kind of crowded on thefloor.
Sure yeah.
Stefanie Couch (04:43):
I was just walking and just people
everywhere and there's a realbuzz and the industry has been
talking about this.
I mean, every trade publication, everything I look at, it's
talking about this acquisition.
But what are you the mostexcited about?
I mean, what gets you fired upwhen you think about where you
are today and where you're goingto go with this and how the
members are going to be seen?
Because one thing I do want topoint out, and this is the thing
(05:06):
I love about Do it Best themost.
I grew up in an independenthardware store and lumberyard
and you are the champion ofindependence and you and your
business is really structuredaround that and helping
independent lumberyards andretail hardware stores grow and
thrive and compete with the bigboys and girls.
So what excites you the mostabout it?
Dan Starr (05:27):
All that.
No, I mean, what excites me themost about that are really two
things.
One is kind of the nerdy behindthe scenes, the other is the
very public.
The nerdy behind the scenes isthat scale matters.
Scale makes a very bigdifference, particularly when
you do something that is verycost-centric, capital-intensive,
(05:48):
where you're taking in productinto warehouses, running trucks
and distributing them all acrossthe United States and in 50
countries.
It's a very complex offering.
If you can build scale at that,you can drive efficiencies that
are stunning.
It's a little nerdy.
Stefanie Couch (06:05):
I know I was in distribution for years.
I'm as nerdy as you on that.
Dan Starr (06:09):
But it is the best stuff because it's like that's
what we do, that's the heart ofwhat we do and that's where we
can deliver a ton of value.
So part of it is theopportunity that comes from
scale.
The other part of it is morethe public facing the
opportunity that comes fromhaving two different ways to go
to market.
One is a very well-known retailbrand.
(06:29):
The other is really more of amember-centric way of going to
market.
They're both member-centric,but I just mean, in terms of
retail brands, the opportunitieswith that I think were needed
in our industry Absolutely.
Stefanie Couch (06:43):
And.
Dan Starr (06:44):
I think that that's going to be a very powerful and
exciting thing to be able towork on in the future.
Stefanie Couch (06:51):
Yeah, and as the bigger companies do continue to
merge in acquisition and getlarger, the competition for
independent lumber yards andretail stores is pretty tough.
Dan Starr (07:02):
It is.
Stefanie Couch (07:02):
But there is such a competitive advantage.
I believe that the smallbusiness owner on the ground
knows their market, knows theirpeople, knows their customers.
There is a huge opportunity tocapitalize.
But where that leverage islacking is in that scale.
They can't call and just buythe huge whole mill worth of
lumber.
Some of these people that arebig they buy more lumber than we
(07:24):
used to at distribution with ahuge company.
So you guys have that scalethat you can help leverage.
So the small business owneractually can take that and
partner with someone like Do itBest or True Value and really
get all the benefits of beinghuge and also have all the
leverage of staying small and onthe ground with where you know
what you're doing in your market.
Dan Starr (07:46):
I couldn't have said it better.
It's a wonderful thing, and thefact they can do that in a
setting where they have theconfidence of knowing that
they're a shareholder of thiscompany, they're not just a
customer.
And so they're not just acustomer, they're our owner, and
they also have a board ofdirectors that's entirely
comprised of member ownersthemselves, and so there's this
(08:09):
stewardship where, it's likeevery bit of the benefit of all
that is being driven right backto that group of people.
Stefanie Couch (08:17):
Yeah, it's a pretty beautiful setup.
I don't know anybody elsethat's doing anything like this.
You guys are the largestmember-owned co-op in the whole
United States and the world,maybe.
Dan Starr (08:27):
I think it might be the world.
Stefanie Couch (08:28):
Okay, it's pretty cool.
Dan Starr (08:29):
I'm not aware of any co-op as large as we are now.
I love it yeah.
Stefanie Couch (08:35):
Well, you've had a busy year, yes, and
personally you've also had apretty cool year, I have so you
just became a grandfather.
Tell me a little bit about that, because I know it's been
stressful on the work side, butit had to have been filled with
joy on that side.
Dan Starr (08:46):
I didn't know you were going to ask me about that,
but that is true.
In December, december 11th, myeldest son, he and his wife
Annie.
They welcomed a little baby boy, and everyone tells you that
being a grandparent is just thebest, and I think they're
underselling it.
It is the most joyfulexperience that I've ever had.
Stefanie Couch (09:08):
That's awesome and you got it right before
Christmas, so pretty coolChristmas present and I'm sure
that in a year or two he willhopefully be roaming the market
floors.
Dan Starr (09:19):
He's coming to the fall show.
Stefanie Couch (09:25):
I will tell you, I went to hardware shows as a
young child.
My whole childhood with myparents and my sisters went with
me.
It is still, right now, one ofmy most core memories in my life
and the most fun.
You know, everybody's got freecandy.
Now there's always today.
You guys had puppies at one ofyour booths.
Dan Starr (09:39):
Did you stop there?
Yes, they are the cutest.
I just that was stunning.
Stefanie Couch (09:44):
I'm surprised I actually made it to this
interview, because you're prettyawesome, dan, but puppies, no
puppies win.
I may or may not have one in mybag somewhere.
Dan Starr (09:54):
They're just, and there were like six or so.
I thought there might be justlike one or two, and no, there's
like I don't know.
Stefanie Couch (10:00):
They're adorable , Eight I know, but this show is
great for kids.
I, I don't know they'readorable, Eight I know, but this
show is great for kids.
I've been seeing kidseverywhere and that's also
something I love about.
You know small businesses.
It is family orientedAbsolutely, and you know these
owners they get away.
This is a vacation for them.
Tonight we're going to go toUniversal Studios.
Dan Starr (10:23):
I'm meet you on the front row of the VelociCoaster.
Stefanie Couch (10:26):
I don't know what I'm going to do with my hat
.
Dan Starr (10:28):
It's not going to survive it, but you can wear it
on the ride.
Will you help me make?
Stefanie Couch (10:32):
sure it doesn't come off on the roller coasters.
It's a little scary becausepeople don't.
I don't know what I'm going todo without my hat.
Dan Starr (10:38):
Well, fortunately your name's on it, so I All
right.
Stefanie Couch (10:44):
Well, I want to segue a little bit to one of my
favorite topics, which is lumberand building materials.
Do it Best has long been knownfor hard lines hardware,
Milwaukee, DeWalt You'll haveall these amazing brands.
You even have farm and ranchstuff everywhere.
I heard and I'm going to checkthis out later there's baby
chicks on the floor.
There are, OK.
Got to go check that out.
(11:05):
I've seen that already on oneof the booths.
But you are actuallyexceptional at lumber and
building materials and have avery large team.
So tell me a little bit, formaybe a member or someone in the
world that doesn't know aboutwhat you do.
I've had the pleasure ofworking with your team the last
year in that segment.
Tell me a little more aboutthat.
Dan Starr (11:25):
Yeah, I'm happy to tell you about that.
It is a very, very large partof our business and it always
has been, From the verybeginning and the foundation of
our company.
We were founded in 1945 and itwas a collection of independent
stores at that time in Indiana,Michigan and Ohio, and lumber
(11:46):
dealers were a part of that fromthe very beginning.
So it's not some kind ofsideline thing that we started
dabbling in a few years ago andyou measure our sales in the
billions of dollars when itcomes to lumber and building
materials.
So it's not exactly a smallpart of the business.
And it ranges from everything.
So a lot of that is directrelationships with mills,
carloads of lumber, a lot ofthat is we have reload centers
(12:09):
across the US where you can getaccess to less than truckload
and a range of products.
So those are like, from smallto large, we can serve anybody
who's anywhere in the US on alltheir needs on lumber and
building materials.
And it's the most completearrangement too, because all
those folks, the real lumberpeople and you know those people
(12:30):
right, the sawdust in the veinstype of people they take a
pride almost in the fact thatthey're lumber people.
They don't sell trinkets andwhat they mean by that.
Stefanie Couch (12:43):
It's all that little my dad's one of those.
Is he one of those guys?
He was like paint.
No, thank you.
The day we got rid of the paintline was the best day of my
dad's.
One of those.
Is he one of those guys?
He was like paint.
No, thank you.
Yeah, the day we got rid of thepaint line was the best day of
my dad's life probably still tothis day, but he just didn't
love it.
He's a lumberman, he's a lumberguy and he wants to sell lumber
and he still feels that way.
Dan Starr (12:58):
And it's hard to convince and you don't want to
convince them otherwise that thebuilding materials, some of the
fasteners, some of the buildingproducts that go along with
that, to have hard linesdistribution to support that.
Sure, because there's a lot offolks who do a lot of lumber,
(13:18):
who also do niche categoriesthat are lumber adjacent.
Stefanie Couch (13:23):
Let's just call it that Fasten Master or Simpson
?
Dan Starr (13:26):
Strong Tie or Simpson Strong Tie, you name it.
Stefanie Couch (13:28):
Yeah, so many things.
You've got to have it becausethose contractors don't want to
have to go to two differentplaces and you might lose the
lumber business because youdon't have it.
So you guys have a full line ofeverything.
A lot of it is in warehouse, soyou don't have to stock these
big giant quantities of stuff.
You buy what you need just intime inventory, which right now
is so important with our economy.
(13:48):
People don't want to keepmonths and months of inventory
without turns.
Dan Starr (13:51):
It's scary, that's exactly right.
You get to the other side ofCOVID and that's exactly right.
They focus on skinning down theinventory so you're not
overextended.
Certainly something like lumberthe pricing there has been.
I'm sure you follow it enoughto go.
That is not for the faint ofheart.
Stefanie Couch (14:07):
No, I've always said my whole life that lumber
trading is like literallyplaying the roulette wheel.
I've always thought it was likethe riskiest job there is in
our industry, because you've gotto have a stomach for it.
Dan Starr (14:19):
Yeah, you must be an adrenaline junkie, but that, I
mean, I look at that and I go.
That to me is one of the otherhuge benefits of working with if
I can just be selfish workingwith an organization like ours,
because some of that is, hey, doyou offer a service to de-risk
some of that?
Yes, sure, yes, we hedge Allright, and so there's a way for
(14:42):
us to stabilize that so thatthey can get just in time sort
of inventory and it de-risks alittle bit.
We can also offer them futuresand other vehicles to take a
little bit of that price riskout of the equation which can
kill you.
Stefanie Couch (14:56):
Absolutely, and we actually implemented this
time at market for the firsttime on the LBM show floor at
the booth, we're doing learningsessions and one of those was
about lumber features thismorning talking about marketing
things like that.
So you guys are givingvalue-added services to your
members, not only to offerproduct, but you're offering
experts and you're offering howto actually teach them to be
(15:18):
empowered to be expertsthemselves and their traders and
their people on the ground sothat they understand how they
can use the power that you guyshave.
Dan Starr (15:27):
Yeah, and we're not trying to encourage people to be
roulette players.
Yeah, what we're saying is it'srisky to be in this business.
That's right.
How can you de-risk it?
Absolutely, how can you utilizethese tools to lower your
overall cost of goods.
Yeah, that's what we're after.
Stefanie Couch (15:41):
Absolutely.
How would you say thatindependent dealers should be
working towards leveragingthings today?
What is?
Dan Starr (15:52):
I'm a big proponent of making sure that you're not
just following along with othersand then trying to offer the
breadth of what you can dowithout really specializing in
anything.
Stefanie Couch (16:03):
It's hard to be a jack of all trades, for sure.
Dan Starr (16:06):
It really is, and then you're just competing on
commodity price for somethingthat's very, very hard.
I do think that the folks thatare the most successful are the
ones that really find somethingthat is theirs, and they are not
just in it, they're an expertin it and they do it like nobody
else.
I think of Doug Manns and whathe does decking and decking
materials, their whole company.
(16:27):
They know how to work that partof it.
So, yes, you can go to MannsLumber and you can get
dimensional lumber.
You also have the ability to dothings like from a decking, and
that's still part of the homeimprovement space.
It's not just construction, butyou can do some things that are
out of this world and they arethe destination.
So specialization and beingreally in it, I think, is pretty
(16:50):
critical.
Stefanie Couch (16:51):
Yeah, I love it when I see people.
My background is a lot ofmillwork stuff, so doors and
windows, that's a premiumcategory.
You can charge higher margins,but it's tough and it's
technical.
So the likelihood thatsomeone's going to need your
expertise in that and you bethat specialist that they're
always going to come to.
If you do it right, you canhave a customer for life.
Dan Starr (17:08):
If you do it right, then fine.
Sell the volume stuff, but getthe high margin stuff when
you're at it, would you please?
Stefanie Couch (17:15):
Absolutely.
It's a great way to reallyhedge against some of these
crazy market changes that yousee in lumber.
That's right.
Well, I want to shift a littlebit to something I love talking
about, which is technology, andI know you are also very adamant
about the place that technologyhas in our future.
As a business, I don't think ofour industry necessarily as
(17:35):
always the most forefront runnerin technology.
I still have customers thathave fax machines.
Do you really?
Yes, and they use them.
Oh, no, no.
Yeah, I know, and it's funnybecause that's pretty common in
lumberyards to see at least theold rogue fax machine, just in
case.
Dan Starr (17:51):
And you got to have a landline to go with it.
Stefanie Couch (17:53):
A hundred percent.
So I want to talk a little bitabout what you see.
So AI, data, e-commerce issomething that Do it Best does
very well.
You have an amazing leader inAllison Flatjord, who was a huge
leader in e-commerce at somevery large companies outside of
our industry and she's broughtexpertise there.
But tell me what you thinkpeople should be thinking about.
What are your thoughts on justtechnology in general?
Dan Starr (18:21):
What do you see coming?
Biggest trends?
I look at that and say Ibelieve as we evolve, that will
become.
The sustainable competitiveadvantage is making sure that we
are leveraging data andleveraging technology in the
right way.
And it's also something that ourmembers cannot do that on their
own.
They don't have access to theoverwhelming amount of data that
their co-op does, so it reallyis incumbent upon us to do it,
because nobody else will.
(18:41):
So we have to do it and we haveto get better at it, and it
will be our competitiveadvantage, and I'll give you
just a couple quick examples.
So there's a lot of people, Ithink, that might listen and go
all right, fine, but what doesthat even mean in our space?
I think one of those might beevaluating not just the movement
but the completeness of adepartment.
(19:04):
Do we have all the right things?
Are we missing anything?
Are we heavy in some thingsthat aren't moving in the right
way?
And the harder thing to find iswhere are the gaps?
How do you know what you shouldhave when you don't have it?
Yeah, it's a gut feeling.
You can't measure that so hard,but we can.
And so I think when you dovelocity of sales and
(19:25):
adjacencies and you start toaggregate that data and then you
work it together, you can turnthat back and say tweaking what
you're doing at store level isan important thing to always do
and it's a constant thing and wecan help you with that, and we
can.
We can both modernize it, keepit fresh, keep it relevant.
Make sure you've got everythingyou need another one is just on
the buying side, right when youhave all that data at your
(19:50):
fingertips and and you need tounderstand, in our business it's
cyclical, right?
You can see it every singleyear.
Whether you have a strongwinter or a light one, there's a
cyclical pattern.
Even with prices that are allover the place, there's still a
volume pattern that takes place,especially in lumber and
(20:10):
building materials, and when youevaluate those things and you
make sure that you're not ourmembers don't want to be heavy
in inventory.
We're more efficient if wedon't have to be either, but you
have to have the right thingsat the right time at the right
price, and so using thosesystems to help with demand
forecasting and replenishment ispretty critical to being good
at your job.
Absolutely, we have to do that.
Stefanie Couch (20:31):
A lot of people have data, they have something,
their ERP gives them numbers,but it's so difficult to figure
out number one.
What metrics actually matter,that's right.
Because there's so many and thenit's different for each
business, each category, andthen also extrapolating data in
a way that, like you said, who'sgoing to spend the time looking
through these spreadsheets thatI've exported from my ERP
(20:54):
system that have 5,000 rows?
That's right, and I think AIcan help with a lot of that.
I'm loving what I'm seeing withsome of the things we're doing,
and I know you guys are usingsome things to really optimize.
Okay, this is the outcome I'msearching for.
Now you let AI go spend thetime instead of a human to
extrapolate what you need andgive you reports.
What do you think AI is goingto do?
(21:15):
How do you see that and do youuse it in your day-to-day?
I'm curious.
Dan Starr (21:19):
I actually have used it.
Okay, I actually have.
Stefanie Couch (21:23):
It was more for personal business than it was
for anything work-related, but Iasked AI to basically write me
an itinerary.
Dan Starr (21:31):
My youngest son is graduating from college.
I'm finally getting them alloff the payroll.
Stefanie Couch (21:35):
Oh, that's awesome.
Where does he go to school?
Dan Starr (21:37):
Wheaton College in Chicago.
You know where that is?
Yeah, I do.
So.
He's graduating this spring andI just, I want to go on a
little trip, just dad and son asgraduation present to him.
But I had generative AI buildan itinerary for me and it was
good.
I know it wasn't junk.
You have to work on it, butit's good.
Stefanie Couch (21:57):
I think that's one of the things people miss is
, you know, with AI it can justabout do anything, but you got
to prompt it and you probablyhave to prompt it more than once
and nuance it, just like if youwere giving directions when
you're driving.
If you dump all the directionsat the very beginning, it's
different than saying turn lefthere now, turn right here, you
know, and you're prompting itthat way.
(22:18):
So the itinerary that you get.
I'm sure you had to say okay,we want to be a little less busy
on this afternoon, we mightwant to be in the same area, but
it can be a travel agent, itcan be whatever you want it to
be.
Dan Starr (22:28):
Very impressive.
Now I don't use it to help mewrite.
Stefanie Couch (22:31):
Yeah, it does.
Sometimes it takes the um, thecharacter out.
I wrote most of my LinkedInposts still by hand.
I get on there and I'll startwriting a hook, but what it is
good for is ideation.
So if you're not sure what youwant to write about.
You could say do some researchon some things.
That might be a good topic forLBM dealers.
Dan Starr (22:53):
No, I think that's exactly right.
It's much easier to edit thanit is to create For sure.
So fine, do that Right.
Stefanie Couch (23:00):
Well, talking about we're talking about
LinkedIn and talking about youknow different social media.
I want to talk a little bitabout branding and the power of
being visible and havingpresence in your market.
We have a lot of people that doexceptional jobs, as a lot of
manufacturers really have spentlike, I think, of Kohler, as you
know.
They spend $10 million on theirbooth at IBS, at the
(23:21):
International Builder Show $10million on one week.
It's hard to fathom that, butthey also are known in that
category as the top brand bysurveys, by consumer brand
surveys.
So what they're doing has beendecades of spending this money
to accrue that brand value.
How important do you thinkbranding is for small,
independent dealers and hardwarestores, and how can they start
(23:45):
to build that brand value?
Dan Starr (23:47):
Yeah, how important is it?
I think it's very, veryimportant, and it's important to
distinguish it from having alogo.
That's not the same thing, andI think, no matter who you are,
it's important.
The other thing I love aboutbranding is the power that can
come over time by eitherspending or performing, and what
(24:09):
I mean by that is as importantas the brand is for Kohler and
how much they spend on it forthe decades that they have.
That's incredible.
The example that I also like,though, is a company like
Verizon.
The day before they existed,nobody ever even heard of this
word it's a made up word andthen they dropped tens of
millions of dollars to informthe public who they are.
(24:31):
Everybody knows who they are.
Absolutely.
That was how they acquiredbranding.
The comparative to that for meis Costco.
Yeah, have you ever seen atelevision advertisement for
Costco?
Nope, do you have anexpectation of what the brand
means?
and what the experience is goingto be when you go into one.
Stefanie Couch (24:47):
Yeah and absolutely how much the hot dog
is going to cost Exactly and noone had to say, no one had to
advertise that for you.
Dan Starr (24:54):
That brand was built by execution.
Stefanie Couch (24:57):
And.
Dan Starr (24:57):
I think our members, our retailers, have the ability
to choose both paths, or youknow, somewhere in the middle of
that, but you don't have tospend $10 million a year or a
week at a booth to create abrand.
You can create a brand,especially in your local
community.
If you do it right, if youcultivate expectations and then
exceed them, you're going to geta brand, and it may be more
(25:21):
powerful than just having a namethat's well advertised.
Stefanie Couch (25:24):
I totally agree.
I think branding is really theassociation of two things
together.
So you know the brand of who Iam and what they think of me
when I'm not in the room mypersonal brand, your personal
brand.
It's important.
I think business owners can doa lot more on that side, and
it's pretty much free who youare and what you're known for as
(25:44):
an executive or as a leader inyour company.
It helps you recruit peopleinto your company Employees.
Talent is a struggle with everysingle business that we have in
our industry, and so there's alot of ways to do it and, like
you said, you don't have tospend $10 million.
But the one thing that I dothink is really important and
I'd love to hear your thoughtson this is good brands take time
(26:06):
, and if you're willing to do itfor five years, 10 years, if
you're in it for the long hauland you consistently do it, you
will get value, whether it'sspent money or execution time or
a combination of both.
But you can't build a brand ina week.
Dan Starr (26:19):
Now Verizon bought one pretty quickly.
Stefanie Couch (26:24):
Verizon might challenge that a little bit.
If you have enough money, itdoes expedite the process.
But referral branding andbranding by word of mouth and
branding out loud building whatyou're showing with your
customers is so important, and Ithink people love to see what
lumberyards, hardware stores,builders they love to see our
craft.
People are so curious about it,and so it can start just as
(26:44):
simple as just posting on socialmedia like a picture of or a
video of what you're building orwhat someone, what you sold the
home that you sold thosewindows to.
Dan Starr (26:52):
Absolutely, and they want to see your personality.
You can get lost in socialmedia.
Be distinct, be unique.
Don't be afraid to have a senseof humor.
People love those things andthey want to see who you
genuinely are.
Stefanie Couch (27:04):
So show it to them.
Some might say buy a pink hat,buy a big old pink hat, I'll
have you one for the ending.
It's happening, dan.
Dan Starr (27:12):
It's going to have your name on the back, I'm not
sure that that's my brand, I'mjust going to say it like that.
Stefanie Couch (27:18):
Oh, I love it.
All right.
Well, I want to close this out.
Thank you so much for your timetoday and I want to just ask
one final question.
What is one thing that peopleshould know about the Do it Best
group that you think maybe theydon't know, that maybe it's a
hidden jewel, any secrets thatyou would give that people
should know about your company?
Dan Starr (27:39):
I don't think that.
I'm not sure that it's a secret, okay.
The hidden gem, though, or thegem that's front and center, is
that I think, top to bottom, ourorganization is committed to a
culture that is driven byservant leadership.
I had a retailer stop me on thefloor on my way, trying to get
over here, who wanted to stop meand first of all just say thank
(28:02):
you, and then went through justtelling me a story.
Servant leadership is a nicetitle, but he told me a story
and I think it's more relevant.
And it was his prior experiencein trying to deal with the
organization that he came fromwho supported them as a supplier
.
And then he said we engage withyour people.
(28:22):
If we reach out to them, it'snot 45 minutes before I have a
response back.
They're always kind, they'realways working to try to get to
my problem and help me solve it.
It's unbelievable the kind ofand that's just what you might
consider the basics of customerservice.
And being good and beingresponsive to your customer is a
(28:44):
good thing to teach.
A posture of servant leadershipis a slightly different thing,
but it lends itself to goodcustomer service and I think
that's something that when yourecruit for it, when you preach
it, when you ask people toreally genuinely share that they
(29:07):
have care and concern forsomebody else, that you treat
somebody with kindness, withdignity, with respect, when
that's part of your culturalexpectation and your values, and
that you say, hey, we'reentirely others focused, we're
here.
Our entire mission is to helpmake other people successful.
That's a calling that you canrespect.
And you can enjoy that over thecourse of a career when you
invite people into that and theyreally buy in.
(29:30):
That to me is whatever thesecret sauce or gem that you
might not appreciate until youneed it.
Stefanie Couch (29:39):
I love it when you have someone who's thinking
about your business, whenthey're on their time and
they're not in front of you.
That's a powerful thing, and Ithink your team at Do it Best
does that exceptionally well andemulates that exact spirit.
So I love it.
That exact spirit, so I love it.
And being a champion ofindependence when the
(30:00):
independence sometimes seemslike they're getting
overshadowed by all the bigthings happening in our industry
, you guys are here, right,front and center, fighting for
them every single day, and Ilove that.
So thank you so much forspending some time with me.
Make sure that you go pet somepuppies on the way out at the
market.
Dan Starr (30:13):
It's really important .
Stefanie Couch (30:14):
It does.
It's a warm and fuzzy and Ihope that you have a great rest
of the market and I appreciateyou being on the Grit Blueprint,
thank you.
That's it for this episode ofthe Grit Blueprint podcast.
For more tools, training andindustry content, make sure to
subscribe here and follow me onLinkedIn and other social media
(30:36):
platforms To find out more abouthow Grit Blueprint can help you
grow your business.
Check us out at our website,gritblueprintcom.
You are the champion of independence and you
and your business is reallystructured around that and
helping independent lumber yardsand retail hardware stores grow
and thrive and compete with thebig boys and girls.
A lot of people have data, butit's so difficult to figure out
what metrics actually matter.
That's right, because there'sso many.
Dan Starr (00:21):
And the harder thing to find is where the gaps.
You can't measure that so hard,but we can.
Tweaking what you're doing atstore level is an important
thing to always do and it's aconstant thing, and we can help
you with that.
Stefanie Couch (00:33):
Branding out loud, building what you're
showing with your customers isso important and I think people
love to see what lumberyards,hardware stores, builders they
love to see our craft.
Dan Starr (00:44):
Absolutely, and they want to see your personality.
You can get lost in socialmedia.
Be distinct, be unique.
Don't be afraid to have a senseof humor.
People love those things andthey want to see who you
genuinely are.
Stefanie Couch (00:55):
So show it to them.
Some might say buy a pink hat,buy a big old pink hat.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast, the show for bold
builders, brand leaders andlegacy makers in the
construction and buildingindustry.
I'm your host, stephanie Couch,and I've been in this industry
(01:17):
my entire life.
Whether we're breaking downwhat's working in sales and
marketing, new advances in AIand automation, or interviewing
top industry leaders, you'regoing to get real world
strategies to grow your business, build your brand and lead your
team.
Let's get to work.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast.
(01:40):
I'm your host, stephanie Couch,and I'm excited today to be
live and in person with DanStarr, the president and CEO of
Do it Best Group, who hasrecently had a lot of excitement
in your life, and we're heretoday in Orlando at the Spring
Market, the biggest market thatDo it Best has ever had.
Welcome to the show.
Dan Starr (01:58):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
Stefanie Couch (02:00):
And we are here with True Value Lots going on.
You are the CEO, have been herefor a long time and you have
been the CEO since 2016.
But I would venture to say thatmaybe the last year has been
probably the most exciting yearyou've had since you've joined.
Do it Best right.
Dan Starr (02:18):
I would say that is the case.
If excitement and change can bejust kind of correlated, then
the answer is yes by far.
There's been more excitingchange and some really great
things and a lot of difficultcircumstances to navigate.
All that is true.
Stefanie Couch (02:33):
Yeah, exactly, and you have a background that
was really primed for this role,I think, with acquisitions and
mergers, and you've done a lotof that, so let's just dig in.
The first thing that everyone'sgoing to want to know is you
guys bought United Hardware andthen you just recently acquired
True Value, which was a legacycompany, been around a long time
(02:55):
, a very well-known name.
I mean everybody you say, hey,true Value, they know it right.
I even can see the logo in mymind from my childhood True
Value Hardware.
Tell me a little bit about thelast year and about that
acquisition.
Dan Starr (03:07):
Yeah, and please be sure and corral me, I'll have a
tendency to just meander allover the place.
But in many ways it's been along time coming.
You know, you hear anexpression of people becoming a
success overnight, you know, andthey've worked for 20 years and
then suddenly they're a successovernight.
Stefanie Couch (03:24):
Yeah.
Dan Starr (03:24):
There's a similar, there's just a parallel to that.
We have had conversations offand on with True Value for many,
many years.
So their CEO, their prior CEO,their CEO before that.
I've had one-on-oneconversations with all of them
at some level or another aboutsome kind of combination or
acquisition.
It just the timing wasn't right, mainly because True Value had
(03:52):
it's the reason they went intobankruptcy.
They had all these very, verylarge legacy debts and
obligations and that unfortunatetrajectory continued to a point
where it was then no longerviable and that's what triggered
the acquisition and nobody knewwhen that was going to come.
It's been predicted for morethan 20 years.
Stefanie Couch (04:10):
Yeah, they got into a hole they just couldn't
crawl out of.
Dan Starr (04:13):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (04:13):
Yeah Well, it's exciting because we're here at
this market and I heard over10,000 members here with Do it
Best and True Value combined.
Dan Starr (04:22):
Yeah, there's more than 10,000 badges out there,
and there's some vendor badgesas part of that mix too, but
we've never I mean we have moreDo it Best members that are here
than when we were here twoyears ago in Orlando.
Stefanie Couch (04:35):
Yeah, it's amazing.
And then you add all the TrueValue members.
Dan Starr (04:38):
On top of it, with the space we have, it's huge and
it feels kind of crowded on thefloor.
Sure yeah.
Stefanie Couch (04:43):
I was just walking and just people
everywhere and there's a realbuzz and the industry has been
talking about this.
I mean, every trade publication, everything I look at, it's
talking about this acquisition.
But what are you the mostexcited about?
I mean, what gets you fired upwhen you think about where you
are today and where you're goingto go with this and how the
members are going to be seen?
Because one thing I do want topoint out, and this is the thing
(05:06):
I love about Do it Best themost.
I grew up in an independenthardware store and lumberyard
and you are the champion ofindependence and you and your
business is really structuredaround that and helping
independent lumberyards andretail hardware stores grow and
thrive and compete with the bigboys and girls.
So what excites you the mostabout it?
Dan Starr (05:27):
All that.
No, I mean, what excites me themost about that are really two
things.
One is kind of the nerdy behindthe scenes, the other is the
very public.
The nerdy behind the scenes isthat scale matters.
Scale makes a very bigdifference, particularly when
you do something that is verycost-centric, capital-intensive,
(05:48):
where you're taking in productinto warehouses, running trucks
and distributing them all acrossthe United States and in 50
countries.
It's a very complex offering.
If you can build scale at that,you can drive efficiencies that
are stunning.
It's a little nerdy.
Stefanie Couch (06:05):
I know I was in distribution for years.
I'm as nerdy as you on that.
Dan Starr (06:09):
But it is the best stuff because it's like that's
what we do, that's the heart ofwhat we do and that's where we
can deliver a ton of value.
So part of it is theopportunity that comes from
scale.
The other part of it is morethe public facing the
opportunity that comes fromhaving two different ways to go
to market.
One is a very well-known retailbrand.
(06:29):
The other is really more of amember-centric way of going to
market.
They're both member-centric,but I just mean, in terms of
retail brands, the opportunitieswith that I think were needed
in our industry Absolutely.
Stefanie Couch (06:43):
And.
Dan Starr (06:44):
I think that that's going to be a very powerful and
exciting thing to be able towork on in the future.
Stefanie Couch (06:51):
Yeah, and as the bigger companies do continue to
merge in acquisition and getlarger, the competition for
independent lumber yards andretail stores is pretty tough.
Dan Starr (07:02):
It is.
Stefanie Couch (07:02):
But there is such a competitive advantage.
I believe that the smallbusiness owner on the ground
knows their market, knows theirpeople, knows their customers.
There is a huge opportunity tocapitalize.
But where that leverage islacking is in that scale.
They can't call and just buythe huge whole mill worth of
lumber.
Some of these people that arebig they buy more lumber than we
(07:24):
used to at distribution with ahuge company.
So you guys have that scalethat you can help leverage.
So the small business owneractually can take that and
partner with someone like Do itBest or True Value and really
get all the benefits of beinghuge and also have all the
leverage of staying small and onthe ground with where you know
what you're doing in your market.
Dan Starr (07:46):
I couldn't have said it better.
It's a wonderful thing, and thefact they can do that in a
setting where they have theconfidence of knowing that
they're a shareholder of thiscompany, they're not just a
customer.
And so they're not just acustomer, they're our owner, and
they also have a board ofdirectors that's entirely
comprised of member ownersthemselves, and so there's this
(08:09):
stewardship where, it's likeevery bit of the benefit of all
that is being driven right backto that group of people.
Stefanie Couch (08:17):
Yeah, it's a pretty beautiful setup.
I don't know anybody elsethat's doing anything like this.
You guys are the largestmember-owned co-op in the whole
United States and the world,maybe.
Dan Starr (08:27):
I think it might be the world.
Stefanie Couch (08:28):
Okay, it's pretty cool.
Dan Starr (08:29):
I'm not aware of any co-op as large as we are now.
I love it yeah.
Stefanie Couch (08:35):
Well, you've had a busy year, yes, and
personally you've also had apretty cool year, I have so you
just became a grandfather.
Tell me a little bit about that, because I know it's been
stressful on the work side, butit had to have been filled with
joy on that side.
Dan Starr (08:46):
I didn't know you were going to ask me about that,
but that is true.
In December, december 11th, myeldest son, he and his wife
Annie.
They welcomed a little baby boy, and everyone tells you that
being a grandparent is just thebest, and I think they're
underselling it.
It is the most joyfulexperience that I've ever had.
Stefanie Couch (09:08):
That's awesome and you got it right before
Christmas, so pretty coolChristmas present and I'm sure
that in a year or two he willhopefully be roaming the market
floors.
Dan Starr (09:19):
He's coming to the fall show.
Stefanie Couch (09:25):
I will tell you, I went to hardware shows as a
young child.
My whole childhood with myparents and my sisters went with
me.
It is still, right now, one ofmy most core memories in my life
and the most fun.
You know, everybody's got freecandy.
Now there's always today.
You guys had puppies at one ofyour booths.
Dan Starr (09:39):
Did you stop there?
Yes, they are the cutest.
I just that was stunning.
Stefanie Couch (09:44):
I'm surprised I actually made it to this
interview, because you're prettyawesome, dan, but puppies, no
puppies win.
I may or may not have one in mybag somewhere.
Dan Starr (09:54):
They're just, and there were like six or so.
I thought there might be justlike one or two, and no, there's
like I don't know.
Stefanie Couch (10:00):
They're adorable , Eight I know, but this show is
great for kids.
I, I don't know they'readorable, Eight I know, but this
show is great for kids.
I've been seeing kidseverywhere and that's also
something I love about.
You know small businesses.
It is family orientedAbsolutely, and you know these
owners they get away.
This is a vacation for them.
Tonight we're going to go toUniversal Studios.
Dan Starr (10:23):
I'm meet you on the front row of the VelociCoaster.
Stefanie Couch (10:26):
I don't know what I'm going to do with my hat
.
Dan Starr (10:28):
It's not going to survive it, but you can wear it
on the ride.
Will you help me make?
Stefanie Couch (10:32):
sure it doesn't come off on the roller coasters.
It's a little scary becausepeople don't.
I don't know what I'm going todo without my hat.
Dan Starr (10:38):
Well, fortunately your name's on it, so I All
right.
Stefanie Couch (10:44):
Well, I want to segue a little bit to one of my
favorite topics, which is lumberand building materials.
Do it Best has long been knownfor hard lines hardware,
Milwaukee, DeWalt You'll haveall these amazing brands.
You even have farm and ranchstuff everywhere.
I heard and I'm going to checkthis out later there's baby
chicks on the floor.
There are, OK.
Got to go check that out.
(11:05):
I've seen that already on oneof the booths.
But you are actuallyexceptional at lumber and
building materials and have avery large team.
So tell me a little bit, formaybe a member or someone in the
world that doesn't know aboutwhat you do.
I've had the pleasure ofworking with your team the last
year in that segment.
Tell me a little more aboutthat.
Dan Starr (11:25):
Yeah, I'm happy to tell you about that.
It is a very, very large partof our business and it always
has been, From the verybeginning and the foundation of
our company.
We were founded in 1945 and itwas a collection of independent
stores at that time in Indiana,Michigan and Ohio, and lumber
(11:46):
dealers were a part of that fromthe very beginning.
So it's not some kind ofsideline thing that we started
dabbling in a few years ago andyou measure our sales in the
billions of dollars when itcomes to lumber and building
materials.
So it's not exactly a smallpart of the business.
And it ranges from everything.
So a lot of that is directrelationships with mills,
carloads of lumber, a lot ofthat is we have reload centers
(12:09):
across the US where you can getaccess to less than truckload
and a range of products.
So those are like, from smallto large, we can serve anybody
who's anywhere in the US on alltheir needs on lumber and
building materials.
And it's the most completearrangement too, because all
those folks, the real lumberpeople and you know those people
(12:30):
right, the sawdust in the veinstype of people they take a
pride almost in the fact thatthey're lumber people.
They don't sell trinkets andwhat they mean by that.
Stefanie Couch (12:43):
It's all that little my dad's one of those.
Is he one of those guys?
He was like paint.
No, thank you.
The day we got rid of the paintline was the best day of my
dad's.
One of those.
Is he one of those guys?
He was like paint.
No, thank you.
Yeah, the day we got rid of thepaint line was the best day of
my dad's life probably still tothis day, but he just didn't
love it.
He's a lumberman, he's a lumberguy and he wants to sell lumber
and he still feels that way.
Dan Starr (12:58):
And it's hard to convince and you don't want to
convince them otherwise that thebuilding materials, some of the
fasteners, some of the buildingproducts that go along with
that, to have hard linesdistribution to support that.
Sure, because there's a lot offolks who do a lot of lumber,
(13:18):
who also do niche categoriesthat are lumber adjacent.
Stefanie Couch (13:23):
Let's just call it that Fasten Master or Simpson
?
Dan Starr (13:26):
Strong Tie or Simpson Strong Tie, you name it.
Stefanie Couch (13:28):
Yeah, so many things.
You've got to have it becausethose contractors don't want to
have to go to two differentplaces and you might lose the
lumber business because youdon't have it.
So you guys have a full line ofeverything.
A lot of it is in warehouse, soyou don't have to stock these
big giant quantities of stuff.
You buy what you need just intime inventory, which right now
is so important with our economy.
(13:48):
People don't want to keepmonths and months of inventory
without turns.
Dan Starr (13:51):
It's scary, that's exactly right.
You get to the other side ofCOVID and that's exactly right.
They focus on skinning down theinventory so you're not
overextended.
Certainly something like lumberthe pricing there has been.
I'm sure you follow it enoughto go.
That is not for the faint ofheart.
Stefanie Couch (14:07):
No, I've always said my whole life that lumber
trading is like literallyplaying the roulette wheel.
I've always thought it was likethe riskiest job there is in
our industry, because you've gotto have a stomach for it.
Dan Starr (14:19):
Yeah, you must be an adrenaline junkie, but that, I
mean, I look at that and I go.
That to me is one of the otherhuge benefits of working with if
I can just be selfish workingwith an organization like ours,
because some of that is, hey, doyou offer a service to de-risk
some of that?
Yes, sure, yes, we hedge Allright, and so there's a way for
(14:42):
us to stabilize that so thatthey can get just in time sort
of inventory and it de-risks alittle bit.
We can also offer them futuresand other vehicles to take a
little bit of that price riskout of the equation which can
kill you.
Stefanie Couch (14:56):
Absolutely, and we actually implemented this
time at market for the firsttime on the LBM show floor at
the booth, we're doing learningsessions and one of those was
about lumber features thismorning talking about marketing
things like that.
So you guys are givingvalue-added services to your
members, not only to offerproduct, but you're offering
experts and you're offering howto actually teach them to be
(15:18):
empowered to be expertsthemselves and their traders and
their people on the ground sothat they understand how they
can use the power that you guyshave.
Dan Starr (15:27):
Yeah, and we're not trying to encourage people to be
roulette players.
Yeah, what we're saying is it'srisky to be in this business.
That's right.
How can you de-risk it?
Absolutely, how can you utilizethese tools to lower your
overall cost of goods.
Yeah, that's what we're after.
Stefanie Couch (15:41):
Absolutely.
How would you say thatindependent dealers should be
working towards leveragingthings today?
What is?
Dan Starr (15:52):
I'm a big proponent of making sure that you're not
just following along with othersand then trying to offer the
breadth of what you can dowithout really specializing in
anything.
Stefanie Couch (16:03):
It's hard to be a jack of all trades, for sure.
Dan Starr (16:06):
It really is, and then you're just competing on
commodity price for somethingthat's very, very hard.
I do think that the folks thatare the most successful are the
ones that really find somethingthat is theirs, and they are not
just in it, they're an expertin it and they do it like nobody
else.
I think of Doug Manns and whathe does decking and decking
materials, their whole company.
(16:27):
They know how to work that partof it.
So, yes, you can go to MannsLumber and you can get
dimensional lumber.
You also have the ability to dothings like from a decking, and
that's still part of the homeimprovement space.
It's not just construction, butyou can do some things that are
out of this world and they arethe destination.
So specialization and beingreally in it, I think, is pretty
(16:50):
critical.
Stefanie Couch (16:51):
Yeah, I love it when I see people.
My background is a lot ofmillwork stuff, so doors and
windows, that's a premiumcategory.
You can charge higher margins,but it's tough and it's
technical.
So the likelihood thatsomeone's going to need your
expertise in that and you bethat specialist that they're
always going to come to.
If you do it right, you canhave a customer for life.
Dan Starr (17:08):
If you do it right, then fine.
Sell the volume stuff, but getthe high margin stuff when
you're at it, would you please?
Stefanie Couch (17:15):
Absolutely.
It's a great way to reallyhedge against some of these
crazy market changes that yousee in lumber.
That's right.
Well, I want to shift a littlebit to something I love talking
about, which is technology, andI know you are also very adamant
about the place that technologyhas in our future.
As a business, I don't think ofour industry necessarily as
(17:35):
always the most forefront runnerin technology.
I still have customers thathave fax machines.
Do you really?
Yes, and they use them.
Oh, no, no.
Yeah, I know, and it's funnybecause that's pretty common in
lumberyards to see at least theold rogue fax machine, just in
case.
Dan Starr (17:51):
And you got to have a landline to go with it.
Stefanie Couch (17:53):
A hundred percent.
So I want to talk a little bitabout what you see.
So AI, data, e-commerce issomething that Do it Best does
very well.
You have an amazing leader inAllison Flatjord, who was a huge
leader in e-commerce at somevery large companies outside of
our industry and she's broughtexpertise there.
But tell me what you thinkpeople should be thinking about.
What are your thoughts on justtechnology in general?
Dan Starr (18:21):
What do you see coming?
Biggest trends?
I look at that and say Ibelieve as we evolve, that will
become.
The sustainable competitiveadvantage is making sure that we
are leveraging data andleveraging technology in the
right way.
And it's also something that ourmembers cannot do that on their
own.
They don't have access to theoverwhelming amount of data that
their co-op does, so it reallyis incumbent upon us to do it,
because nobody else will.
(18:41):
So we have to do it and we haveto get better at it, and it
will be our competitiveadvantage, and I'll give you
just a couple quick examples.
So there's a lot of people, Ithink, that might listen and go
all right, fine, but what doesthat even mean in our space?
I think one of those might beevaluating not just the movement
but the completeness of adepartment.
(19:04):
Do we have all the right things?
Are we missing anything?
Are we heavy in some thingsthat aren't moving in the right
way?
And the harder thing to find iswhere are the gaps?
How do you know what you shouldhave when you don't have it?
Yeah, it's a gut feeling.
You can't measure that so hard,but we can.
And so I think when you dovelocity of sales and
(19:25):
adjacencies and you start toaggregate that data and then you
work it together, you can turnthat back and say tweaking what
you're doing at store level isan important thing to always do
and it's a constant thing and wecan help you with that, and we
can.
We can both modernize it, keepit fresh, keep it relevant.
Make sure you've got everythingyou need another one is just on
the buying side, right when youhave all that data at your
(19:50):
fingertips and and you need tounderstand, in our business it's
cyclical, right?
You can see it every singleyear.
Whether you have a strongwinter or a light one, there's a
cyclical pattern.
Even with prices that are allover the place, there's still a
volume pattern that takes place,especially in lumber and
(20:10):
building materials, and when youevaluate those things and you
make sure that you're not ourmembers don't want to be heavy
in inventory.
We're more efficient if wedon't have to be either, but you
have to have the right thingsat the right time at the right
price, and so using thosesystems to help with demand
forecasting and replenishment ispretty critical to being good
at your job.
Absolutely, we have to do that.
Stefanie Couch (20:31):
A lot of people have data, they have something,
their ERP gives them numbers,but it's so difficult to figure
out number one.
What metrics actually matter,that's right.
Because there's so many and thenit's different for each
business, each category, andthen also extrapolating data in
a way that, like you said, who'sgoing to spend the time looking
through these spreadsheets thatI've exported from my ERP
(20:54):
system that have 5,000 rows?
That's right, and I think AIcan help with a lot of that.
I'm loving what I'm seeing withsome of the things we're doing,
and I know you guys are usingsome things to really optimize.
Okay, this is the outcome I'msearching for.
Now you let AI go spend thetime instead of a human to
extrapolate what you need andgive you reports.
What do you think AI is goingto do?
(21:15):
How do you see that and do youuse it in your day-to-day?
I'm curious.
Dan Starr (21:19):
I actually have used it.
Okay, I actually have.
Stefanie Couch (21:23):
It was more for personal business than it was
for anything work-related, but Iasked AI to basically write me
an itinerary.
Dan Starr (21:31):
My youngest son is graduating from college.
I'm finally getting them alloff the payroll.
Stefanie Couch (21:35):
Oh, that's awesome.
Where does he go to school?
Dan Starr (21:37):
Wheaton College in Chicago.
You know where that is?
Yeah, I do.
So.
He's graduating this spring andI just, I want to go on a
little trip, just dad and son asgraduation present to him.
But I had generative AI buildan itinerary for me and it was
good.
I know it wasn't junk.
You have to work on it, butit's good.
Stefanie Couch (21:57):
I think that's one of the things people miss is
, you know, with AI it can justabout do anything, but you got
to prompt it and you probablyhave to prompt it more than once
and nuance it, just like if youwere giving directions when
you're driving.
If you dump all the directionsat the very beginning, it's
different than saying turn lefthere now, turn right here, you
know, and you're prompting itthat way.
(22:18):
So the itinerary that you get.
I'm sure you had to say okay,we want to be a little less busy
on this afternoon, we mightwant to be in the same area, but
it can be a travel agent, itcan be whatever you want it to
be.
Dan Starr (22:28):
Very impressive.
Now I don't use it to help mewrite.
Stefanie Couch (22:31):
Yeah, it does.
Sometimes it takes the um, thecharacter out.
I wrote most of my LinkedInposts still by hand.
I get on there and I'll startwriting a hook, but what it is
good for is ideation.
So if you're not sure what youwant to write about.
You could say do some researchon some things.
That might be a good topic forLBM dealers.
Dan Starr (22:53):
No, I think that's exactly right.
It's much easier to edit thanit is to create For sure.
So fine, do that Right.
Stefanie Couch (23:00):
Well, talking about we're talking about
LinkedIn and talking about youknow different social media.
I want to talk a little bitabout branding and the power of
being visible and havingpresence in your market.
We have a lot of people that doexceptional jobs, as a lot of
manufacturers really have spentlike, I think, of Kohler, as you
know.
They spend $10 million on theirbooth at IBS, at the
(23:21):
International Builder Show $10million on one week.
It's hard to fathom that, butthey also are known in that
category as the top brand bysurveys, by consumer brand
surveys.
So what they're doing has beendecades of spending this money
to accrue that brand value.
How important do you thinkbranding is for small,
independent dealers and hardwarestores, and how can they start
(23:45):
to build that brand value?
Dan Starr (23:47):
Yeah, how important is it?
I think it's very, veryimportant, and it's important to
distinguish it from having alogo.
That's not the same thing, andI think, no matter who you are,
it's important.
The other thing I love aboutbranding is the power that can
come over time by eitherspending or performing, and what
(24:09):
I mean by that is as importantas the brand is for Kohler and
how much they spend on it forthe decades that they have.
That's incredible.
The example that I also like,though, is a company like
Verizon.
The day before they existed,nobody ever even heard of this
word it's a made up word andthen they dropped tens of
millions of dollars to informthe public who they are.
(24:31):
Everybody knows who they are.
Absolutely.
That was how they acquiredbranding.
The comparative to that for meis Costco.
Yeah, have you ever seen atelevision advertisement for
Costco?
Nope, do you have anexpectation of what the brand
means?
and what the experience is goingto be when you go into one.
Stefanie Couch (24:47):
Yeah and absolutely how much the hot dog
is going to cost Exactly and noone had to say, no one had to
advertise that for you.
Dan Starr (24:54):
That brand was built by execution.
Stefanie Couch (24:57):
And.
Dan Starr (24:57):
I think our members, our retailers, have the ability
to choose both paths, or youknow, somewhere in the middle of
that, but you don't have tospend $10 million a year or a
week at a booth to create abrand.
You can create a brand,especially in your local
community.
If you do it right, if youcultivate expectations and then
exceed them, you're going to geta brand, and it may be more
(25:21):
powerful than just having a namethat's well advertised.
Stefanie Couch (25:24):
I totally agree.
I think branding is really theassociation of two things
together.
So you know the brand of who Iam and what they think of me
when I'm not in the room mypersonal brand, your personal
brand.
It's important.
I think business owners can doa lot more on that side, and
it's pretty much free who youare and what you're known for as
(25:44):
an executive or as a leader inyour company.
It helps you recruit peopleinto your company Employees.
Talent is a struggle with everysingle business that we have in
our industry, and so there's alot of ways to do it and, like
you said, you don't have tospend $10 million.
But the one thing that I dothink is really important and
I'd love to hear your thoughtson this is good brands take time
(26:06):
, and if you're willing to do itfor five years, 10 years, if
you're in it for the long hauland you consistently do it, you
will get value, whether it'sspent money or execution time or
a combination of both.
But you can't build a brand ina week.
Dan Starr (26:19):
Now Verizon bought one pretty quickly.
Stefanie Couch (26:24):
Verizon might challenge that a little bit.
If you have enough money, itdoes expedite the process.
But referral branding andbranding by word of mouth and
branding out loud building whatyou're showing with your
customers is so important, and Ithink people love to see what
lumberyards, hardware stores,builders they love to see our
craft.
People are so curious about it,and so it can start just as
(26:44):
simple as just posting on socialmedia like a picture of or a
video of what you're building orwhat someone, what you sold the
home that you sold thosewindows to.
Dan Starr (26:52):
Absolutely, and they want to see your personality.
You can get lost in socialmedia.
Be distinct, be unique.
Don't be afraid to have a senseof humor.
People love those things andthey want to see who you
genuinely are.
Stefanie Couch (27:04):
So show it to them.
Some might say buy a pink hat,buy a big old pink hat, I'll
have you one for the ending.
It's happening, dan.
Dan Starr (27:12):
It's going to have your name on the back, I'm not
sure that that's my brand, I'mjust going to say it like that.
Stefanie Couch (27:18):
Oh, I love it.
All right.
Well, I want to close this out.
Thank you so much for your timetoday and I want to just ask
one final question.
What is one thing that peopleshould know about the Do it Best
group that you think maybe theydon't know, that maybe it's a
hidden jewel, any secrets thatyou would give that people
should know about your company?
Dan Starr (27:39):
I don't think that.
I'm not sure that it's a secret, okay.
The hidden gem, though, or thegem that's front and center, is
that I think, top to bottom, ourorganization is committed to a
culture that is driven byservant leadership.
I had a retailer stop me on thefloor on my way, trying to get
over here, who wanted to stop meand first of all just say thank
(28:02):
you, and then went through justtelling me a story.
Servant leadership is a nicetitle, but he told me a story
and I think it's more relevant.
And it was his prior experiencein trying to deal with the
organization that he came fromwho supported them as a supplier
.
And then he said we engage withyour people.
(28:22):
If we reach out to them, it'snot 45 minutes before I have a
response back.
They're always kind, they'realways working to try to get to
my problem and help me solve it.
It's unbelievable the kind ofand that's just what you might
consider the basics of customerservice.
And being good and beingresponsive to your customer is a
(28:44):
good thing to teach.
A posture of servant leadershipis a slightly different thing,
but it lends itself to goodcustomer service and I think
that's something that when yourecruit for it, when you preach
it, when you ask people toreally genuinely share that they
(29:07):
have care and concern forsomebody else, that you treat
somebody with kindness, withdignity, with respect, when
that's part of your culturalexpectation and your values, and
that you say, hey, we'reentirely others focused, we're
here.
Our entire mission is to helpmake other people successful.
That's a calling that you canrespect.
And you can enjoy that over thecourse of a career when you
invite people into that and theyreally buy in.
(29:30):
That to me is whatever thesecret sauce or gem that you
might not appreciate until youneed it.
Stefanie Couch (29:39):
I love it when you have someone who's thinking
about your business, whenthey're on their time and
they're not in front of you.
That's a powerful thing, and Ithink your team at Do it Best
does that exceptionally well andemulates that exact spirit.
So I love it.
That exact spirit, so I love it.
And being a champion ofindependence when the
(30:00):
independence sometimes seemslike they're getting
overshadowed by all the bigthings happening in our industry
, you guys are here, right,front and center, fighting for
them every single day, and Ilove that.
So thank you so much forspending some time with me.
Make sure that you go pet somepuppies on the way out at the
market.
Dan Starr (30:13):
It's really important .
Stefanie Couch (30:14):
It does.
It's a warm and fuzzy and Ihope that you have a great rest
of the market and I appreciateyou being on the Grit Blueprint,
thank you.
That's it for this episode ofthe Grit Blueprint podcast.
For more tools, training andindustry content, make sure to
subscribe here and follow me onLinkedIn and other social media
(30:36):
platforms To find out more abouthow Grit Blueprint can help you
grow your business.
Check us out at our website,gritblueprintcom.
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