October 10, 2025 • 25 mins
Forklifts buzzing and mics rolling, that’s the spirit of this conversation with our friend Russ Cathrine, Vice President of Lumber & Building Materials at Do it Best. We dig into a simple idea with outsized returns: reduce friction from the moment a project is imagined to the moment the last unit is delivered, and you’ll win more often at better margins.
Russ brings a rare vantage point: family yard operator, corporate exec, real estate builder, and now co‑op leader, to show how independents can outmaneuver giants by reducing friction, focusing on niches like custom windows and doors, and building vendor partnerships that compound growth. Russ shares the “70% solution,” lessons from turnarounds and co‑ops, and why bold moves will define the next five years.
Topics we cover:
• Reducing friction from idea to delivery
• Mean more to fewer vendors
• Why independents win on custom and service
• Co‑op scale plus services that level up dealers
• Learning fast: 70% solution over perfection
• Knowledge sharing across non‑competing markets
• Four values: ease, risk, competitiveness, profit
• Bold outlook: stop hiding, make money now
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Russ Kathrein (00:00):
How do you reduce the friction?
Look at the transaction fromwhen someone's thinking about
building something to when theydeliver the final product.
How can you reduce thefriction?
How can you go out there andtry different stuff?
Stefanie Couch (00:12):
You gotta sometimes take a chance on
things.
You don't know how they'regonna work out.
Just go try something.
Russ Kathrein (00:16):
The good independents, they know their
business, they have a niche,they're nimble, they can react
quickly, and they can runcircles around the big guys.
But if you're gonna be anindependent, you're gonna go
after those niche businesses.
It's high service, highcustomer relations, high trust.
Next five years look reallypositive.
Don't hide in your shell, don'thunker down, go out there and
make some money.
Stefanie Couch (00:34):
Be unmistakable as I might say.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast, the playbook for
building unmistakable brandsthat grow, lead, and last in the
built world.
I'm Stephanie Couch, thefounder of Grit Blueprint, and
I'm a lifelong building industryinsider.
I was raised here, built mycareer here, and now my team and
(00:58):
I help others win here.
The truth is, you can be thebest option in your space and
still lose to someone else whosimply shows up better and more
consistently.
Each week on the GritBlueprint, I'm going to show you
how to stand out, earn trust,and turn your brand into a
competitive advantage thatlasts.
(01:20):
If you're ready to be seen,known, chosen, and become
unmistakable, you're in theright place.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast.
I'm your host, Stephanie Couch,and today I'm joined by my
friend Russ Cathrine.
Welcome to the show, Russ.
Russ Kathrein (01:39):
Thank you, Stephanie.
It's great being here.
Stefanie Couch (01:41):
And we are actually like legit here in
person in Indianapolis, settingup in the middle of the show
floor with forklifts going allaround us.
We could topple over at anymoment if a forklift does the
wrong thing.
Russ Kathrein (01:53):
Uh, but we're gonna trust if someone crashes
the party, they could reallycrash the party.
Stefanie Couch (01:57):
Yeah, it could be bad.
But we're here for now.
And I'm excited to talk today.
You and I have been workingtogether for uh a little over a
year and a half, but you havetold me a little bit about your
career, and you have one of themost diverse careers I think
I've heard.
You've gone from family lumberyard to bigger chains.
You've worked at two or threedifferent large companies, uh,
(02:17):
some of which were reallyacquiring a lot of other
companies.
Then you went back and you werethe CEO of an independent
lumberyard.
Yes.
And now you were here as thevice president of lumber and
building materials at do it bestgroup.
Tell me a little bit about yourcareer and how did this crazy
train ride get started?
Russ Kathrein (02:34):
Well, and don't forget that right out of
college, I worked as a financialanalyst for NCR and then for
United Airlines.
Stefanie Couch (02:39):
So yeah, I mean, you you've got a finance
background, which I think hasserved you really well.
Yes, it is.
Um tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Like how'd you get started?
Russ Kathrein (02:47):
Well, my my wife thinks it's crazy that I went to
college and got a degree forsomething I'm not good at.
Stefanie Couch (02:52):
Yeah.
Russ Kathrein (02:53):
But you know, I wanted I never wanted to be
bamboozled by numbers, so that'swhy I got a finance degree.
I figured I'd always be good atsales.
Stefanie Couch (02:58):
Yeah.
Russ Kathrein (02:59):
And it it's it's worked well for me.
Um came back and bought myfamily's business.
They were in that was in uhchapter 11 from a sales tax
audit, and it took a lot ofpenagling and number crunching
and that for a number of yearsto get that all straightened
out.
And we did.
Where was the business?
This is in the Chicago area,it's still around.
Totem lumber.
Stefanie Couch (03:18):
Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, and did you grow up likehanging out at the lumber yard?
Oh, yeah.
Russ Kathrein (03:22):
Yeah, we used to go in on Sundays or Saturdays
with my dad.
He used to call uh take me into dust the telephones and load
the pot machine.
I was like five or six.
That's awesome.
And then graduated to uh, youknow, cleaning up the store and
stocking shelves.
And then at one point I wasthere to entertain the
customers, got busy.
I would just talk with them atthe counter until my brother and
my dad could come wait on them.
Stefanie Couch (03:41):
You were telling me that you're a good talker as
a child?
Russ Kathrein (03:43):
Uh as a child, I've kind of done that.
Stefanie Couch (03:46):
I'm so shocked by that.
It doesn't that doesn't add up.
Are you sure this is the sameinterview?
Russ Kathrein (03:50):
Yep.
Yep.
Stefanie Couch (03:51):
I love that.
Well, tell me, so you youbought back the business, you
bring it back from chapter 11,which I'm sure was very
stressful and probably took along time, like you said.
What happened next?
Russ Kathrein (04:00):
Oh, we ran it for a couple years, my brother and
I, and then just kind of haddifferent visions.
And ultimately I had him kindof he'd say buy me out, but it
wasn't a lot.
And then I decided to jump inback into corporate America and
uh work for a wholesaledistributor uh that's uh doing
building materials and then wentto work for 84 Lumber.
Stefanie Couch (04:17):
Yeah.
You have done a lot ofdifferent jobs.
What what is one of the thingsthat looking back, you know, you
would say would be like one ofthe funnest jobs you had?
Russ Kathrein (04:27):
Well, it was it was interesting.
Uh when I worked for 84 Lumber,out of the blue, um Joe Hardy
asked me to run his development,and that was the side of the
business called Pierce HardyReal Estate that bought land and
built stores, and I got my realestate license and he taught me
we'd go out and we'd buyproperty, we'd build stores, and
I never saw myself doing that.
So it was it was it was reallyinteresting and really out of
(04:48):
out of character for being inthe lumber business.
Stefanie Couch (04:50):
Yeah, that's super cool.
And well, I mean, now with allthe acquisitions and the things
that happen with thegreenfields, that's probably a
pretty handy skill.
I mean, do you have membersthat ask you questions that you
can answer now because of that?
Russ Kathrein (05:00):
Well, it's funny, I always tell members you
unfortunately you'll probablyonly build one lumber yard in
your life.
And then you have all thesemistakes, you go back and go,
God, I wish I didn't do that.
So I try to collect the thingswe learned at '84, the things
I've learned building lumberyards and try and share that
with them.
Stefanie Couch (05:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you actually have someonenow that's helping lay out
lumberyards, Scott Morrison.
Yep.
And he's coming in, he's leanSix Sigma, all the all the green
belt, black belt.
I don't know what he what belthe is.
Russ Kathrein (05:26):
We we call him our operations excellence
manager.
We didn't want to get into leanbecause I think people see lean
and they, oh, I know what thatis.
Yeah.
But no, I I actually Scottworked as a consultant and I
engaged him when I was runninguh the independent chain.
And uh he was awesome.
Stefanie Couch (05:41):
Yeah, and he's already making a big difference
and a big splash in the in thedealers he's working with.
Russ Kathrein (05:46):
You know, he came from the automotive industry,
but he's been working withlumberyards for 20, 25 years, so
he knows the products, knowsthe language, he knows trust
plants, he knows door shops.
He's just really, really good.
Stefanie Couch (05:56):
Yeah.
We have a partnership here atDo It Best with my company, Grit
Blueprint, and we've beenworking together on lots of
different projects, but I'veseen you over the last few years
work with a lot of differentpeople.
You believe strongly inpartnerships, and I think it's
probably the skill that I'veadmired the most over the last
few years of what you've beenable to do with vendor partners,
with member and dealerpartners.
(06:17):
Tell me a little bit about yourapproach to partnerships.
Russ Kathrein (06:20):
I had a lot of experience or a lot of uh
history in purchasing and cameto realize that you couldn't be
everything to everybody.
So I came up with a phrasecalled mean more to fewer
vendors.
And you gotta find the onesthat believe in you.
And it's not you can't go outand say, Oh, I want to partner
with that vendor because ifthey're not buying into what
you're selling, you're wastingyour time.
Stefanie Couch (06:39):
Yeah.
Russ Kathrein (06:39):
But when you get that right partnership, um, the
growth can be exponential.
Yeah.
And it's usually it's gotta be,you gotta give more than you
take.
And ideally, that vendor inturn or partner will do the same
thing.
Stefanie Couch (06:52):
Yeah, I love that.
I think about the movie FindingNemo.
Have you seen Finding Nemo?
The clownfish and the C anemonehave to have each other.
They are stronger because theythe clownfish is in the C
anemone and the C anemone, youknow, protects the clownfish
from predators.
So it's pretty cool when youcan find that in vendor
partnerships or with some kindof relationship like that.
And I've seen Do It Best Dothat.
(07:13):
You guys are announcingpartnerships with tech,
different tech vendors, andyou've had partnerships with
consultants and people that makeyou uh stronger as a company
internally and externally.
Yep.
What is the value that you bringas a co-op to independents that
maybe couldn't afford orwouldn't think to bring in some
of these partnerships bythemselves as one location or a
(07:33):
few locations?
Russ Kathrein (07:34):
Well, I mean, the the classic co-op is we bring
scale.
So from a purchasingstandpoint, we we bring scale
that they can't get.
Um I always say that, yeah,yeah, you could have a direct
relationship with thatmanufacturer, but you're you're
the proverbial fly on theelephant's butt.
They don't even they don't evencare about you.
Right.
But where we're trying to growmore, especially on LBM, is
we're trying to get intoservices and be able to engage a
(07:55):
guy like Scott Morrison andhave him as a tool that they can
call up.
Um and we bring them, we bringthat to them.
Same with Bradley Hartman doingour pro sales training, same
with you, with our brandawareness, with the AI, with
social media.
I mean, it's just we're tryingto find the right people and
bring them to our to our membersand help them run their
business better.
Stefanie Couch (08:15):
Yeah.
And that way they don't have tospend the the 10,000 hours
becoming an expert in everylittle thing.
They can just call the expertyou've already found.
Russ Kathrein (08:22):
And then, you know, with the with a co-op, the
other thing you get is you getthat family, that camaraderie,
where all of a sudden, you know,a lot of people will say, Hey,
I want to use Stephanie or Iwant to use Scott.
Is there someone else who'sdone it?
You say, Oh, yeah, one of ourother members did.
They're like, Oh, they'll pickup the phone and call.
And it's not, they wouldn'tfeel comfortable doing that with
just a reference.
Stefanie Couch (08:41):
Yeah.
And one thing that I love aboutindependence, I I see this a
lot at these types of events, isthey they really share
knowledge a lot and they don'tmind.
I mean, most of them are notcompetitors, like a small
lumberyard and harbor storethat's in Indiana and one that's
in Oregon, they they're notever gonna compete against each
other.
So if you can tell me, like,hey, I did this and it it made
(09:03):
me a huge profit or it it helpedour our customers love us more,
whatever it is, that's sopowerful.
And I see that a lot.
And you guys enable that inyour trainings.
You have a lot of differentthings that you're doing with
people that is helping them dothat.
Russ Kathrein (09:16):
Absolutely.
And well, you know, it's funnyyou talk about competitors.
I actually have um two membersin Michigan that almost their
lumbars almost butt up to eachother.
Stefanie Couch (09:24):
Wow.
Russ Kathrein (09:24):
And they've decided we're not competitors,
and they they'll they'll showthey'll share rail cars together
because they just have a littledifferent, but they've always
been there.
Stefanie Couch (09:32):
Wow.
Russ Kathrein (09:32):
You know, it's not like one decided to open up
right, but they've been thereforever, but they just decided,
hey, we can we can worktogether.
And that's that's what theco-op's about.
Stefanie Couch (09:40):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I love that.
This episode of the GritBlueprint Podcast was sponsored
by Do It Best Group.
Do It Best Group is the largestco-op in the world, and they
help independent hardware andlumber yards all over North
America win.
Do It Best offers services,products, and people that can
help you win long term.
(10:01):
They are the champion ofindependence.
So there's a lot of youngerpeople in this industry.
I know you have a lot ofmentees that you coach up.
If you were talking to a25-year-old that's asking how to
form partnerships, nurturethem, grow them, what do you
tell them?
Russ Kathrein (10:21):
First I would tell them is don't be afraid to
fail.
I mean, the the the everylesson I've learned that that
has made me better has usuallybeen because I screwed up or
failed.
Um you don't learn a lot fromyour success.
Sometimes that can make youoverconfident.
Yeah.
Um, so you and and and thenwith that, I'm a I'm a phrase
guy.
So I always have all thesesayings and phrases, and they're
(10:43):
not always mine.
And you've heard this before.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Yeah.
You get these people that theyhave an idea and they wanna they
want to make it perfect, anddon't want to they don't want to
pull the trigger on it, andthey want to do it because they
want to have it perfect.
And that's probably the biggestdifference where I stand out
when you say I was differentthan a lot of people's.
I'm just like, you know what?
The Marines have they call itthe 70% solution.
(11:03):
If I can get a 70% right, I canswing back and fix the other
30%, but let's just keep movingforward.
Stefanie Couch (11:08):
Yeah, and most of the time, I think that we
often think where we're going isone place and you end up
somewhere different.
So even if you hit 100% ofwhere you thought your target
is, if the target should havebeen a little different, it
doesn't matter.
So I think getting too naileddown on, like you said,
perfection and having to knowall the answers up front, it's a
dangerous game.
(11:28):
So I love that advice.
I think it's really good.
What's one story in your careerof a partnership, maybe that
you took a chance on that hasworked out that's been really
great?
Russ Kathrein (11:38):
Well, I had I had an example, but just now you
made me think of something else.
So I'm gonna say, I think ourpartnership because um when you
reached out to me, I was lookingfor someone to kind of lead our
millwork group.
And I hadn't even talked withyou, you just cold called me and
we talked, we had met and weput together this whole plan on
how you'd come in and we'd getthe mill work group going.
(12:00):
And the first six months, itjust it just didn't get legs.
It just I mean, not for lack oftrying, and some a lot of it
was our fault, whatever.
And we sat down at thesix-month part and we just
totally reinvented therelationship and it just took
off.
Yeah.
So that's a really good exampleof you go in thinking it's
gonna be this way, and then it'sgonna go a different direction.
(12:20):
Now, with Scott Morrison beingon board and having that kind of
the the the techno stuff, um, Isee you and Scott working
together with the mill worker.
We'll probably we'll probablyveer back to that.
Yeah, but I think that's agreat example of of where we
went in with one idea and cameout with the other, and it's
also an example of we didn'treally know where this was gonna
(12:41):
go.
When you and I talked, yeah, wedidn't know where it was gonna
go, but we just knew that weliked working with each other,
that we kind of implicitlytrusted each other.
And I was something differentfor you, and you were something
different for me.
And in a way, we kind of neededthat.
So let's let's try it out.
Stefanie Couch (12:55):
Yeah, we both love independent businesses, and
I wanted to see them win.
So I think that's fun, been funto do with you guys.
I love that.
Thank you for saying that.
And I'm excited because I feellike this is really the
beginning.
I mean, we're here, we've got alot of cool stuff going on at
market today.
We've got a lot of thingsplanned for just this four days
that's happening.
Russ Kathrein (13:12):
It's gonna be crazy.
Stefanie Couch (13:13):
It's gonna be a lot of speaking, a lot of
different uh events for membersand dealers to come learn about
all different topics AI, socialmedia, but then operations and
uh technical stuff, lumberfutures.
I am not teaching the lumberfutures class.
Thank God.
Yeah.
Um, you know, I've maybe youknow what's funny is you
probably could.
I maybe could do it.
(13:34):
Uh I know how to calculateboard footage.
I think I can still rememberhow to do that.
I used to do it a lot at mydad's lumber yard, but I will
not be teaching that class thisyear.
But I'm excited about it.
So I think the idea there isyou gotta sometimes take a
chance on things.
You don't know how they'regonna work out.
And the curiosity and theability to just go try
something.
That's that's some great25-year-old Stephanie.
(13:55):
I wish I had had that advice.
Somebody probably told me that.
I don't know if I listened ornot.
Russ Kathrein (14:00):
Well, I didn't know you when you were 25.
Um, you know, the other theother thing I would say is
sometimes you'll have an ideaand some will go, Oh, we tried
that.
And I'll say, was it a badidea?
Was it the wrong time, or wasit poorly executed?
Yeah.
Just because something didn'twork doesn't mean it's a bad
idea.
It just might not be the righttime.
Stefanie Couch (14:17):
Yeah, that is a really good point.
And I think that sometimes itdoes take you trying it two or
three times for it to get right.
I I think about uh going to themoon, you know, like JFK had
this big goal of going to themoon, a wildly important goal.
Elon now has rockets, he'sgoing to Mars.
But think about how manyrockets exploded in the test of
that.
Like if they had to just say,well, that exploded, like no one
(14:40):
would ever go to space becausesomething's gonna blow up when
you're doing something that noone else has ever done.
Russ Kathrein (14:45):
And it goes back to my point.
You learn from your failures.
I mean, the rockets.
What every time there was afailure on the rocket, they
said, okay, what did we learnfrom that?
Yeah.
And they got better.
Stefanie Couch (14:53):
Yeah.
And now we're catching rocketswith like toothpicks.
So I mean, it can obviously getto a micro detail.
It's crazy.
Well, I want to transition alittle bit to something that is
really on my mind right now.
I am calling this the Clash ofthe Titans.
So if you are keeping up withthe news and you're watching by
news, I mean building industrynews, which is the only news
(15:14):
that we watch.
There's a lot of people outthere doing a lot of crazy stuff
right now.
Home Depot has bought SRS inthe last year.
They've bought um other peopleas well.
You've got Lowe's that justbought F FBM, the Foundation
Building Materials.
You've got QXO with BradJacobs, who has stormed into the
market and he has bought Beaconand has tried to buy some other
(15:38):
people as well.
Yes, Home Depot stole GMS outfrom under him.
There's a lot of things goingon.
BFS, I mean, they have doneacquisition after acquisition.
Now they're closing stores thatthey've they've acquired.
Like weird stuff is happening,crazy stuff.
So with all of that noise andall of those things happening in
the macro, how does that affectindependence?
(15:58):
And what do you think theopportunity is for independence
to actually take advantage ofthis moment?
Russ Kathrein (16:05):
It was fascinating for me being growing
up in independent, being partof the big stores when I was at
84 at BMC, uh Pro Build, whichbecame BFS.
And then going back into thosesame markets either as an
independent or as part of do itbest talking to the
independents.
And it's funny because a lot ofthe independents don't even
(16:25):
talk about the big guys.
You know, when we're at ProBuild, we might have been
worried about Home Depot or evenAmazon, you know, what's going
to happen.
And the independents, the goodindependents, they know their
business, they have a niche,they're nimble, they they they
can react quickly and they canrun circles around the big guys.
And and you know, we've alwayswondered about you know when's
(16:47):
Home Depot and Lowe's gonna comein the pro business or
whatever, but let's just take aBFS, great company, they're
they're geared towards theproduction builder business.
They'll take they have a lot ofother business that they'll
take, but that's what they'regeared toward.
The other thing is when you'rethat big, you have to
homogenize.
Yeah, you just have to.
You can't you can't have 31different flavors out there out
(17:08):
there out there operatingdifferently.
Yeah.
Well, with that homogenization,if you're gonna say, hey, we're
gonna be really good atproduction builders, that's
great.
And if we're gonna be reallygood at manufacturing trusses
and walls, that's great.
But when you're dealing with anindependent selling custom
homes, they can dabble in that,but they'll never be good at it.
And that's where theindependence could be really,
really good.
And as an independent, that'snot saying that you can't sell
(17:30):
some custom or some productionhomes.
Sure.
But don't make that your corebusiness because you'll never be
able to compete on that scale.
Stefanie Couch (17:36):
I agree.
I think two things that reallyseparate independence that will
be almost impossible for thosepeople to compete with is the
niching, which you talked about,owning the categories that are
hard.
So the things like windows anddoors, custom windows and doors,
you know, not a vinyl 3050window, but the thing that's got
a trapezoid above it or likesome weird segment or a window
(17:57):
wall that's 20 feet, everythingis bigger right now than it's
ever been.
Like 20 feet doors areeverywhere.
How do you dominate that?
And then the other thing that Ithink is the customer
experience side of it in store,what happens when those
contractors, what they want frompeople, I just don't know if
they can replicate.
Now, I've seen BFS and some ofthose guys do it, but like a
(18:20):
Home Depot or Lowe's, I stillfeel like it's a far cry from
what the average builder,especially on the custom side,
wants to deal with.
I mean, that's just my opinion,but I I still think they have a
long way to go to get thatexperience done.
Russ Kathrein (18:32):
Well, even when you look at, I mean, it's about
relationship, it's about trust.
And an independent is gonna bein his community, her community
is gonna know the people, andand the best thing they can do
is build things that buildtrust.
There's we have we have membersthat are have phenomenal travel
programs that build loyalty,and they send the sign up for
(18:53):
the next year's trip to thespouse.
Yeah, so the spouse is like,hey, we're going here.
You better buy a lot from thoseguys.
That's cool.
Just even the customer serviceangle.
I remember going to the firstHome Depots when they opened up
and going down to Atlanta, andwe're this is when I was running
my family business and beingblown away.
They had retired plumbers inthe plumber section, they had a
retired carpenter in the toolsection, and we're like, How do
(19:16):
we compete?
Well, as they got bigger,that's all going away.
You walk into a home depot, youwalk into a lows, you're lucky
if you can find someone, andthey'll generally point out, but
they can't help you do things.
Yeah.
I know some of these biggercompanies have bought
independence.
They always say nothing's gonnachange, but they'll do things
like, Hey, we don't needcashiers, so we're gonna have
the guys on the back counter bethe cashier.
(19:36):
And oh, by the way, we're notwe don't need the back guys on
the counter working oncommission.
So they be, I mean, they'retrying to figure out how to how
to take some cost out of thesystem.
I get it, yeah.
But what they take out is theytake out that hunger, they chase
away the hunters, they takeaway the hunger.
The heart of the business goesaway.
Yeah, and I'm not, and but fora certain segment of business
that works.
Yeah, but if you're gonna be anindependent, you're gonna go
(19:57):
after those niche businesses.
It's high service, highcustomer relations, high trust.
Stefanie Couch (20:01):
Yeah, I agree.
And I love that part of thebusiness.
It's also usually high margin alot of times.
I mean, that's where most ofthe money comes from.
All right, Russ.
So I hope we're still hangingout in five years.
If we sit down again to talk onfive years from now, what do
you hope is true for theindependent and what's it gonna
take to make it come true?
Russ Kathrein (20:19):
I always think there's room for independence.
It's funny you see these.
I mean, you saw it when the theBFS consolidated stock and BMC
and all those guys, all of asudden they'd be in town and
they'd have four lumbar yards.
They go, We need four lumbaryards.
So they'd close down two.
Well, and a lot of times anindependent would buy those.
And even though those buildthose companies were all built
(20:39):
on acquiring independence andconsolidating, you still had new
ones coming in.
So there's always thatentrepreneurial spirit and
they're always gonna be goingafter the niche business,
they're always gonna beinnovating.
I think if you're looking athow to stay relevant, you have
to, it's not just tech, it's howdo you reduce the friction?
How you know, look at thetransaction from when someone's
(21:02):
thinking about buildingsomething to when they deliver
the final product.
How can you reduce thefriction?
How can you go out there andtry different stuff?
The big companies are gonna trythe safe stuff, and you can't
afford to go out and try andcompete with them by by trying
to out out tech them.
Yeah.
But you can be innovative, betrying be talking.
(21:22):
There's great third-partyservices out there that are
coming up with ways for you tobe able to do stuff that's
better than the big guys.
I mean, we've got one of themhere, toolbox.
Yeah, and that's how you'regonna innovate.
So you need to be going out,uh, going to trade shows, going
to talking to talking to otherlumber dealers or and and
saying, hey, how are you doingit and getting ideas and just be
nimble?
(21:42):
Yeah, but but if you can reducethe friction, make it easier
for your customer.
You know, I I like to say Ilearned this from a sales
trader, so I'm not gonna I'm notgonna take credit for it, but
there's four values.
If you can make their lifeeasier, help them manage their
risk, make them morecompetitive, or make them more
profitable.
I talk about that all the time.
Yeah, price isn't important.
So if you're looking at those,and usually it's about make the
(22:04):
dealer's life easier, make thebuilder's life easier, make the
consumer's life easier.
Yeah.
And and if you in the trans, ifyou take that friction out,
that's how that's how you'regonna win.
Stefanie Couch (22:13):
And I think that's gonna get easier as we
have tools like toolbox andthings like that for the dealer
to see, okay, this is not onlymaking the dealer's life easier,
but it's making thecontractors' life easier.
So they're spending less timeon the job site, you know, doing
these different things andthey're able to go out and sell
more.
They're able to go out and dowhatever they need to do to make
(22:34):
more money.
So I love that answer.
Well, I'm excited to have agreat market.
Thank you so much for sittingdown with me.
Thank you.
I have just one last questionfor you.
If you can leave people withone message about how to win in
the next quarter and 2026, whatwould it be?
Russ Kathrein (22:52):
I would say be bold.
Don't, don't, don't, we're notif there's a slowdown or
whatever, we've got we've gotnext five years look really
positive.
Go out there and make somemoney.
I love it.
Don't don't don't hide in yourshell, don't hunker down.
This is not the beginning ofsome long slowdown.
This is this is time to makemoney.
Stefanie Couch (23:08):
Yeah, be unmistakable, as I might say.
Russ Kathrein (23:10):
Yeah.
All right, before we go, I wantto switch roles.
Okay.
I want to ask you a question.
Okay.
All right.
So Stephanie, you've been apartner of Do It Best now for 18
months.
What are the things that havesurprised you about do it best?
What do you like about workingwith do it best?
Stefanie Couch (23:28):
Well, uh, first of all, I really like your
style.
Russ Kathrein (23:32):
Thank you.
I designed the shirt myself.
Stefanie Couch (23:34):
I love it.
I think it's been fun to see agroup of people that are hungry
to go out and do something thathelps independence, which we
both have talked about a lot.
I really just have a heart forthat.
And I think that isspecifically you and Eric and
the team at LBM, because we'vebeen working really closely
together for for the last 18months.
That team has changed a lot inthe 18 months.
(23:55):
You guys have made a lot ofimprovements and added team
members and regional staff andall of these things.
So you're willing to shakethings up.
And with this that we're doing,I mean, look at us.
We're on the podcast boothfloor here.
Russ Kathrein (24:07):
You might say we're willing to try a different
hands.
Stefanie Couch (24:09):
I was gonna say, uh, the pinker the better, I
think.
But I am excited to just seethat you guys are willing to
take some risk.
And I think to the victor, youknow, of the person that's
willing to try some things,usually goes the spoils.
So I'm excited.
Russ Kathrein (24:23):
Well, we're very happy to have you on the team
and thank you for all your hardwork.
Stefanie Couch (24:26):
Thank you.
And you do look good in pink.
Russ Kathrein (24:28):
I'm, you know, I've been told that.
Stefanie Couch (24:31):
Thank you, Russ.
You're an amazing partner, andI'm excited about this market
and what's to come.
So thank you for joining me onthe Grip Blueprint.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to theGrit Blueprint Podcast.
If this episode helped youthink a little differently about
how to show up, share it withsomeone in your building world
who needs it.
If you're ready to turnvisibility into growth, then
(24:52):
head to gripblueprint.com tolearn more and book a call to
talk to us about your growthstrategy.
Until next time, stayunmistakable.
How do you reduce the friction?
Look at the transaction fromwhen someone's thinking about
building something to when theydeliver the final product.
How can you reduce thefriction?
How can you go out there andtry different stuff?
Stefanie Couch (00:12):
You gotta sometimes take a chance on
things.
You don't know how they'regonna work out.
Just go try something.
Russ Kathrein (00:16):
The good independents, they know their
business, they have a niche,they're nimble, they can react
quickly, and they can runcircles around the big guys.
But if you're gonna be anindependent, you're gonna go
after those niche businesses.
It's high service, highcustomer relations, high trust.
Next five years look reallypositive.
Don't hide in your shell, don'thunker down, go out there and
make some money.
Stefanie Couch (00:34):
Be unmistakable as I might say.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast, the playbook for
building unmistakable brandsthat grow, lead, and last in the
built world.
I'm Stephanie Couch, thefounder of Grit Blueprint, and
I'm a lifelong building industryinsider.
I was raised here, built mycareer here, and now my team and
(00:58):
I help others win here.
The truth is, you can be thebest option in your space and
still lose to someone else whosimply shows up better and more
consistently.
Each week on the GritBlueprint, I'm going to show you
how to stand out, earn trust,and turn your brand into a
competitive advantage thatlasts.
(01:20):
If you're ready to be seen,known, chosen, and become
unmistakable, you're in theright place.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast.
I'm your host, Stephanie Couch,and today I'm joined by my
friend Russ Cathrine.
Welcome to the show, Russ.
Russ Kathrein (01:39):
Thank you, Stephanie.
It's great being here.
Stefanie Couch (01:41):
And we are actually like legit here in
person in Indianapolis, settingup in the middle of the show
floor with forklifts going allaround us.
We could topple over at anymoment if a forklift does the
wrong thing.
Russ Kathrein (01:53):
Uh, but we're gonna trust if someone crashes
the party, they could reallycrash the party.
Stefanie Couch (01:57):
Yeah, it could be bad.
But we're here for now.
And I'm excited to talk today.
You and I have been workingtogether for uh a little over a
year and a half, but you havetold me a little bit about your
career, and you have one of themost diverse careers I think
I've heard.
You've gone from family lumberyard to bigger chains.
You've worked at two or threedifferent large companies, uh,
(02:17):
some of which were reallyacquiring a lot of other
companies.
Then you went back and you werethe CEO of an independent
lumberyard.
Yes.
And now you were here as thevice president of lumber and
building materials at do it bestgroup.
Tell me a little bit about yourcareer and how did this crazy
train ride get started?
Russ Kathrein (02:34):
Well, and don't forget that right out of
college, I worked as a financialanalyst for NCR and then for
United Airlines.
Stefanie Couch (02:39):
So yeah, I mean, you you've got a finance
background, which I think hasserved you really well.
Yes, it is.
Um tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Like how'd you get started?
Russ Kathrein (02:47):
Well, my my wife thinks it's crazy that I went to
college and got a degree forsomething I'm not good at.
Stefanie Couch (02:52):
Yeah.
Russ Kathrein (02:53):
But you know, I wanted I never wanted to be
bamboozled by numbers, so that'swhy I got a finance degree.
I figured I'd always be good atsales.
Stefanie Couch (02:58):
Yeah.
Russ Kathrein (02:59):
And it it's it's worked well for me.
Um came back and bought myfamily's business.
They were in that was in uhchapter 11 from a sales tax
audit, and it took a lot ofpenagling and number crunching
and that for a number of yearsto get that all straightened
out.
And we did.
Where was the business?
This is in the Chicago area,it's still around.
Totem lumber.
Stefanie Couch (03:18):
Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, and did you grow up likehanging out at the lumber yard?
Oh, yeah.
Russ Kathrein (03:22):
Yeah, we used to go in on Sundays or Saturdays
with my dad.
He used to call uh take me into dust the telephones and load
the pot machine.
I was like five or six.
That's awesome.
And then graduated to uh, youknow, cleaning up the store and
stocking shelves.
And then at one point I wasthere to entertain the
customers, got busy.
I would just talk with them atthe counter until my brother and
my dad could come wait on them.
Stefanie Couch (03:41):
You were telling me that you're a good talker as
a child?
Russ Kathrein (03:43):
Uh as a child, I've kind of done that.
Stefanie Couch (03:46):
I'm so shocked by that.
It doesn't that doesn't add up.
Are you sure this is the sameinterview?
Russ Kathrein (03:50):
Yep.
Yep.
Stefanie Couch (03:51):
I love that.
Well, tell me, so you youbought back the business, you
bring it back from chapter 11,which I'm sure was very
stressful and probably took along time, like you said.
What happened next?
Russ Kathrein (04:00):
Oh, we ran it for a couple years, my brother and
I, and then just kind of haddifferent visions.
And ultimately I had him kindof he'd say buy me out, but it
wasn't a lot.
And then I decided to jump inback into corporate America and
uh work for a wholesaledistributor uh that's uh doing
building materials and then wentto work for 84 Lumber.
Stefanie Couch (04:17):
Yeah.
You have done a lot ofdifferent jobs.
What what is one of the thingsthat looking back, you know, you
would say would be like one ofthe funnest jobs you had?
Russ Kathrein (04:27):
Well, it was it was interesting.
Uh when I worked for 84 Lumber,out of the blue, um Joe Hardy
asked me to run his development,and that was the side of the
business called Pierce HardyReal Estate that bought land and
built stores, and I got my realestate license and he taught me
we'd go out and we'd buyproperty, we'd build stores, and
I never saw myself doing that.
So it was it was it was reallyinteresting and really out of
(04:48):
out of character for being inthe lumber business.
Stefanie Couch (04:50):
Yeah, that's super cool.
And well, I mean, now with allthe acquisitions and the things
that happen with thegreenfields, that's probably a
pretty handy skill.
I mean, do you have membersthat ask you questions that you
can answer now because of that?
Russ Kathrein (05:00):
Well, it's funny, I always tell members you
unfortunately you'll probablyonly build one lumber yard in
your life.
And then you have all thesemistakes, you go back and go,
God, I wish I didn't do that.
So I try to collect the thingswe learned at '84, the things
I've learned building lumberyards and try and share that
with them.
Stefanie Couch (05:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you actually have someonenow that's helping lay out
lumberyards, Scott Morrison.
Yep.
And he's coming in, he's leanSix Sigma, all the all the green
belt, black belt.
I don't know what he what belthe is.
Russ Kathrein (05:26):
We we call him our operations excellence
manager.
We didn't want to get into leanbecause I think people see lean
and they, oh, I know what thatis.
Yeah.
But no, I I actually Scottworked as a consultant and I
engaged him when I was runninguh the independent chain.
And uh he was awesome.
Stefanie Couch (05:41):
Yeah, and he's already making a big difference
and a big splash in the in thedealers he's working with.
Russ Kathrein (05:46):
You know, he came from the automotive industry,
but he's been working withlumberyards for 20, 25 years, so
he knows the products, knowsthe language, he knows trust
plants, he knows door shops.
He's just really, really good.
Stefanie Couch (05:56):
Yeah.
We have a partnership here atDo It Best with my company, Grit
Blueprint, and we've beenworking together on lots of
different projects, but I'veseen you over the last few years
work with a lot of differentpeople.
You believe strongly inpartnerships, and I think it's
probably the skill that I'veadmired the most over the last
few years of what you've beenable to do with vendor partners,
with member and dealerpartners.
(06:17):
Tell me a little bit about yourapproach to partnerships.
Russ Kathrein (06:20):
I had a lot of experience or a lot of uh
history in purchasing and cameto realize that you couldn't be
everything to everybody.
So I came up with a phrasecalled mean more to fewer
vendors.
And you gotta find the onesthat believe in you.
And it's not you can't go outand say, Oh, I want to partner
with that vendor because ifthey're not buying into what
you're selling, you're wastingyour time.
Stefanie Couch (06:39):
Yeah.
Russ Kathrein (06:39):
But when you get that right partnership, um, the
growth can be exponential.
Yeah.
And it's usually it's gotta be,you gotta give more than you
take.
And ideally, that vendor inturn or partner will do the same
thing.
Stefanie Couch (06:52):
Yeah, I love that.
I think about the movie FindingNemo.
Have you seen Finding Nemo?
The clownfish and the C anemonehave to have each other.
They are stronger because theythe clownfish is in the C
anemone and the C anemone, youknow, protects the clownfish
from predators.
So it's pretty cool when youcan find that in vendor
partnerships or with some kindof relationship like that.
And I've seen Do It Best Dothat.
(07:13):
You guys are announcingpartnerships with tech,
different tech vendors, andyou've had partnerships with
consultants and people that makeyou uh stronger as a company
internally and externally.
Yep.
What is the value that you bringas a co-op to independents that
maybe couldn't afford orwouldn't think to bring in some
of these partnerships bythemselves as one location or a
(07:33):
few locations?
Russ Kathrein (07:34):
Well, I mean, the the classic co-op is we bring
scale.
So from a purchasingstandpoint, we we bring scale
that they can't get.
Um I always say that, yeah,yeah, you could have a direct
relationship with thatmanufacturer, but you're you're
the proverbial fly on theelephant's butt.
They don't even they don't evencare about you.
Right.
But where we're trying to growmore, especially on LBM, is
we're trying to get intoservices and be able to engage a
(07:55):
guy like Scott Morrison andhave him as a tool that they can
call up.
Um and we bring them, we bringthat to them.
Same with Bradley Hartman doingour pro sales training, same
with you, with our brandawareness, with the AI, with
social media.
I mean, it's just we're tryingto find the right people and
bring them to our to our membersand help them run their
business better.
Stefanie Couch (08:15):
Yeah.
And that way they don't have tospend the the 10,000 hours
becoming an expert in everylittle thing.
They can just call the expertyou've already found.
Russ Kathrein (08:22):
And then, you know, with the with a co-op, the
other thing you get is you getthat family, that camaraderie,
where all of a sudden, you know,a lot of people will say, Hey,
I want to use Stephanie or Iwant to use Scott.
Is there someone else who'sdone it?
You say, Oh, yeah, one of ourother members did.
They're like, Oh, they'll pickup the phone and call.
And it's not, they wouldn'tfeel comfortable doing that with
just a reference.
Stefanie Couch (08:41):
Yeah.
And one thing that I love aboutindependence, I I see this a
lot at these types of events, isthey they really share
knowledge a lot and they don'tmind.
I mean, most of them are notcompetitors, like a small
lumberyard and harbor storethat's in Indiana and one that's
in Oregon, they they're notever gonna compete against each
other.
So if you can tell me, like,hey, I did this and it it made
(09:03):
me a huge profit or it it helpedour our customers love us more,
whatever it is, that's sopowerful.
And I see that a lot.
And you guys enable that inyour trainings.
You have a lot of differentthings that you're doing with
people that is helping them dothat.
Russ Kathrein (09:16):
Absolutely.
And well, you know, it's funnyyou talk about competitors.
I actually have um two membersin Michigan that almost their
lumbars almost butt up to eachother.
Stefanie Couch (09:24):
Wow.
Russ Kathrein (09:24):
And they've decided we're not competitors,
and they they'll they'll showthey'll share rail cars together
because they just have a littledifferent, but they've always
been there.
Stefanie Couch (09:32):
Wow.
Russ Kathrein (09:32):
You know, it's not like one decided to open up
right, but they've been thereforever, but they just decided,
hey, we can we can worktogether.
And that's that's what theco-op's about.
Stefanie Couch (09:40):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I love that.
This episode of the GritBlueprint Podcast was sponsored
by Do It Best Group.
Do It Best Group is the largestco-op in the world, and they
help independent hardware andlumber yards all over North
America win.
Do It Best offers services,products, and people that can
help you win long term.
(10:01):
They are the champion ofindependence.
So there's a lot of youngerpeople in this industry.
I know you have a lot ofmentees that you coach up.
If you were talking to a25-year-old that's asking how to
form partnerships, nurturethem, grow them, what do you
tell them?
Russ Kathrein (10:21):
First I would tell them is don't be afraid to
fail.
I mean, the the the everylesson I've learned that that
has made me better has usuallybeen because I screwed up or
failed.
Um you don't learn a lot fromyour success.
Sometimes that can make youoverconfident.
Yeah.
Um, so you and and and thenwith that, I'm a I'm a phrase
guy.
So I always have all thesesayings and phrases, and they're
(10:43):
not always mine.
And you've heard this before.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Yeah.
You get these people that theyhave an idea and they wanna they
want to make it perfect, anddon't want to they don't want to
pull the trigger on it, andthey want to do it because they
want to have it perfect.
And that's probably the biggestdifference where I stand out
when you say I was differentthan a lot of people's.
I'm just like, you know what?
The Marines have they call itthe 70% solution.
(11:03):
If I can get a 70% right, I canswing back and fix the other
30%, but let's just keep movingforward.
Stefanie Couch (11:08):
Yeah, and most of the time, I think that we
often think where we're going isone place and you end up
somewhere different.
So even if you hit 100% ofwhere you thought your target
is, if the target should havebeen a little different, it
doesn't matter.
So I think getting too naileddown on, like you said,
perfection and having to knowall the answers up front, it's a
dangerous game.
(11:28):
So I love that advice.
I think it's really good.
What's one story in your careerof a partnership, maybe that
you took a chance on that hasworked out that's been really
great?
Russ Kathrein (11:38):
Well, I had I had an example, but just now you
made me think of something else.
So I'm gonna say, I think ourpartnership because um when you
reached out to me, I was lookingfor someone to kind of lead our
millwork group.
And I hadn't even talked withyou, you just cold called me and
we talked, we had met and weput together this whole plan on
how you'd come in and we'd getthe mill work group going.
(12:00):
And the first six months, itjust it just didn't get legs.
It just I mean, not for lack oftrying, and some a lot of it
was our fault, whatever.
And we sat down at thesix-month part and we just
totally reinvented therelationship and it just took
off.
Yeah.
So that's a really good exampleof you go in thinking it's
gonna be this way, and then it'sgonna go a different direction.
(12:20):
Now, with Scott Morrison beingon board and having that kind of
the the the techno stuff, um, Isee you and Scott working
together with the mill worker.
We'll probably we'll probablyveer back to that.
Yeah, but I think that's agreat example of of where we
went in with one idea and cameout with the other, and it's
also an example of we didn'treally know where this was gonna
(12:41):
go.
When you and I talked, yeah, wedidn't know where it was gonna
go, but we just knew that weliked working with each other,
that we kind of implicitlytrusted each other.
And I was something differentfor you, and you were something
different for me.
And in a way, we kind of neededthat.
So let's let's try it out.
Stefanie Couch (12:55):
Yeah, we both love independent businesses, and
I wanted to see them win.
So I think that's fun, been funto do with you guys.
I love that.
Thank you for saying that.
And I'm excited because I feellike this is really the
beginning.
I mean, we're here, we've got alot of cool stuff going on at
market today.
We've got a lot of thingsplanned for just this four days
that's happening.
Russ Kathrein (13:12):
It's gonna be crazy.
Stefanie Couch (13:13):
It's gonna be a lot of speaking, a lot of
different uh events for membersand dealers to come learn about
all different topics AI, socialmedia, but then operations and
uh technical stuff, lumberfutures.
I am not teaching the lumberfutures class.
Thank God.
Yeah.
Um, you know, I've maybe youknow what's funny is you
probably could.
I maybe could do it.
(13:34):
Uh I know how to calculateboard footage.
I think I can still rememberhow to do that.
I used to do it a lot at mydad's lumber yard, but I will
not be teaching that class thisyear.
But I'm excited about it.
So I think the idea there isyou gotta sometimes take a
chance on things.
You don't know how they'regonna work out.
And the curiosity and theability to just go try
something.
That's that's some great25-year-old Stephanie.
(13:55):
I wish I had had that advice.
Somebody probably told me that.
I don't know if I listened ornot.
Russ Kathrein (14:00):
Well, I didn't know you when you were 25.
Um, you know, the other theother thing I would say is
sometimes you'll have an ideaand some will go, Oh, we tried
that.
And I'll say, was it a badidea?
Was it the wrong time, or wasit poorly executed?
Yeah.
Just because something didn'twork doesn't mean it's a bad
idea.
It just might not be the righttime.
Stefanie Couch (14:17):
Yeah, that is a really good point.
And I think that sometimes itdoes take you trying it two or
three times for it to get right.
I I think about uh going to themoon, you know, like JFK had
this big goal of going to themoon, a wildly important goal.
Elon now has rockets, he'sgoing to Mars.
But think about how manyrockets exploded in the test of
that.
Like if they had to just say,well, that exploded, like no one
(14:40):
would ever go to space becausesomething's gonna blow up when
you're doing something that noone else has ever done.
Russ Kathrein (14:45):
And it goes back to my point.
You learn from your failures.
I mean, the rockets.
What every time there was afailure on the rocket, they
said, okay, what did we learnfrom that?
Yeah.
And they got better.
Stefanie Couch (14:53):
Yeah.
And now we're catching rocketswith like toothpicks.
So I mean, it can obviously getto a micro detail.
It's crazy.
Well, I want to transition alittle bit to something that is
really on my mind right now.
I am calling this the Clash ofthe Titans.
So if you are keeping up withthe news and you're watching by
news, I mean building industrynews, which is the only news
(15:14):
that we watch.
There's a lot of people outthere doing a lot of crazy stuff
right now.
Home Depot has bought SRS inthe last year.
They've bought um other peopleas well.
You've got Lowe's that justbought F FBM, the Foundation
Building Materials.
You've got QXO with BradJacobs, who has stormed into the
market and he has bought Beaconand has tried to buy some other
(15:38):
people as well.
Yes, Home Depot stole GMS outfrom under him.
There's a lot of things goingon.
BFS, I mean, they have doneacquisition after acquisition.
Now they're closing stores thatthey've they've acquired.
Like weird stuff is happening,crazy stuff.
So with all of that noise andall of those things happening in
the macro, how does that affectindependence?
(15:58):
And what do you think theopportunity is for independence
to actually take advantage ofthis moment?
Russ Kathrein (16:05):
It was fascinating for me being growing
up in independent, being partof the big stores when I was at
84 at BMC, uh Pro Build, whichbecame BFS.
And then going back into thosesame markets either as an
independent or as part of do itbest talking to the
independents.
And it's funny because a lot ofthe independents don't even
(16:25):
talk about the big guys.
You know, when we're at ProBuild, we might have been
worried about Home Depot or evenAmazon, you know, what's going
to happen.
And the independents, the goodindependents, they know their
business, they have a niche,they're nimble, they they they
can react quickly and they canrun circles around the big guys.
And and you know, we've alwayswondered about you know when's
(16:47):
Home Depot and Lowe's gonna comein the pro business or
whatever, but let's just take aBFS, great company, they're
they're geared towards theproduction builder business.
They'll take they have a lot ofother business that they'll
take, but that's what they'regeared toward.
The other thing is when you'rethat big, you have to
homogenize.
Yeah, you just have to.
You can't you can't have 31different flavors out there out
(17:08):
there out there operatingdifferently.
Yeah.
Well, with that homogenization,if you're gonna say, hey, we're
gonna be really good atproduction builders, that's
great.
And if we're gonna be reallygood at manufacturing trusses
and walls, that's great.
But when you're dealing with anindependent selling custom
homes, they can dabble in that,but they'll never be good at it.
And that's where theindependence could be really,
really good.
And as an independent, that'snot saying that you can't sell
(17:30):
some custom or some productionhomes.
Sure.
But don't make that your corebusiness because you'll never be
able to compete on that scale.
Stefanie Couch (17:36):
I agree.
I think two things that reallyseparate independence that will
be almost impossible for thosepeople to compete with is the
niching, which you talked about,owning the categories that are
hard.
So the things like windows anddoors, custom windows and doors,
you know, not a vinyl 3050window, but the thing that's got
a trapezoid above it or likesome weird segment or a window
(17:57):
wall that's 20 feet, everythingis bigger right now than it's
ever been.
Like 20 feet doors areeverywhere.
How do you dominate that?
And then the other thing that Ithink is the customer
experience side of it in store,what happens when those
contractors, what they want frompeople, I just don't know if
they can replicate.
Now, I've seen BFS and some ofthose guys do it, but like a
(18:20):
Home Depot or Lowe's, I stillfeel like it's a far cry from
what the average builder,especially on the custom side,
wants to deal with.
I mean, that's just my opinion,but I I still think they have a
long way to go to get thatexperience done.
Russ Kathrein (18:32):
Well, even when you look at, I mean, it's about
relationship, it's about trust.
And an independent is gonna bein his community, her community
is gonna know the people, andand the best thing they can do
is build things that buildtrust.
There's we have we have membersthat are have phenomenal travel
programs that build loyalty,and they send the sign up for
(18:53):
the next year's trip to thespouse.
Yeah, so the spouse is like,hey, we're going here.
You better buy a lot from thoseguys.
That's cool.
Just even the customer serviceangle.
I remember going to the firstHome Depots when they opened up
and going down to Atlanta, andwe're this is when I was running
my family business and beingblown away.
They had retired plumbers inthe plumber section, they had a
retired carpenter in the toolsection, and we're like, How do
(19:16):
we compete?
Well, as they got bigger,that's all going away.
You walk into a home depot, youwalk into a lows, you're lucky
if you can find someone, andthey'll generally point out, but
they can't help you do things.
Yeah.
I know some of these biggercompanies have bought
independence.
They always say nothing's gonnachange, but they'll do things
like, Hey, we don't needcashiers, so we're gonna have
the guys on the back counter bethe cashier.
(19:36):
And oh, by the way, we're notwe don't need the back guys on
the counter working oncommission.
So they be, I mean, they'retrying to figure out how to how
to take some cost out of thesystem.
I get it, yeah.
But what they take out is theytake out that hunger, they chase
away the hunters, they takeaway the hunger.
The heart of the business goesaway.
Yeah, and I'm not, and but fora certain segment of business
that works.
Yeah, but if you're gonna be anindependent, you're gonna go
(19:57):
after those niche businesses.
It's high service, highcustomer relations, high trust.
Stefanie Couch (20:01):
Yeah, I agree.
And I love that part of thebusiness.
It's also usually high margin alot of times.
I mean, that's where most ofthe money comes from.
All right, Russ.
So I hope we're still hangingout in five years.
If we sit down again to talk onfive years from now, what do
you hope is true for theindependent and what's it gonna
take to make it come true?
Russ Kathrein (20:19):
I always think there's room for independence.
It's funny you see these.
I mean, you saw it when the theBFS consolidated stock and BMC
and all those guys, all of asudden they'd be in town and
they'd have four lumbar yards.
They go, We need four lumbaryards.
So they'd close down two.
Well, and a lot of times anindependent would buy those.
And even though those buildthose companies were all built
(20:39):
on acquiring independence andconsolidating, you still had new
ones coming in.
So there's always thatentrepreneurial spirit and
they're always gonna be goingafter the niche business,
they're always gonna beinnovating.
I think if you're looking athow to stay relevant, you have
to, it's not just tech, it's howdo you reduce the friction?
How you know, look at thetransaction from when someone's
(21:02):
thinking about buildingsomething to when they deliver
the final product.
How can you reduce thefriction?
How can you go out there andtry different stuff?
The big companies are gonna trythe safe stuff, and you can't
afford to go out and try andcompete with them by by trying
to out out tech them.
Yeah.
But you can be innovative, betrying be talking.
(21:22):
There's great third-partyservices out there that are
coming up with ways for you tobe able to do stuff that's
better than the big guys.
I mean, we've got one of themhere, toolbox.
Yeah, and that's how you'regonna innovate.
So you need to be going out,uh, going to trade shows, going
to talking to talking to otherlumber dealers or and and
saying, hey, how are you doingit and getting ideas and just be
nimble?
(21:42):
Yeah, but but if you can reducethe friction, make it easier
for your customer.
You know, I I like to say Ilearned this from a sales
trader, so I'm not gonna I'm notgonna take credit for it, but
there's four values.
If you can make their lifeeasier, help them manage their
risk, make them morecompetitive, or make them more
profitable.
I talk about that all the time.
Yeah, price isn't important.
So if you're looking at those,and usually it's about make the
(22:04):
dealer's life easier, make thebuilder's life easier, make the
consumer's life easier.
Yeah.
And and if you in the trans, ifyou take that friction out,
that's how that's how you'regonna win.
Stefanie Couch (22:13):
And I think that's gonna get easier as we
have tools like toolbox andthings like that for the dealer
to see, okay, this is not onlymaking the dealer's life easier,
but it's making thecontractors' life easier.
So they're spending less timeon the job site, you know, doing
these different things andthey're able to go out and sell
more.
They're able to go out and dowhatever they need to do to make
(22:34):
more money.
So I love that answer.
Well, I'm excited to have agreat market.
Thank you so much for sittingdown with me.
Thank you.
I have just one last questionfor you.
If you can leave people withone message about how to win in
the next quarter and 2026, whatwould it be?
Russ Kathrein (22:52):
I would say be bold.
Don't, don't, don't, we're notif there's a slowdown or
whatever, we've got we've gotnext five years look really
positive.
Go out there and make somemoney.
I love it.
Don't don't don't hide in yourshell, don't hunker down.
This is not the beginning ofsome long slowdown.
This is this is time to makemoney.
Stefanie Couch (23:08):
Yeah, be unmistakable, as I might say.
Russ Kathrein (23:10):
Yeah.
All right, before we go, I wantto switch roles.
Okay.
I want to ask you a question.
Okay.
All right.
So Stephanie, you've been apartner of Do It Best now for 18
months.
What are the things that havesurprised you about do it best?
What do you like about workingwith do it best?
Stefanie Couch (23:28):
Well, uh, first of all, I really like your
style.
Russ Kathrein (23:32):
Thank you.
I designed the shirt myself.
Stefanie Couch (23:34):
I love it.
I think it's been fun to see agroup of people that are hungry
to go out and do something thathelps independence, which we
both have talked about a lot.
I really just have a heart forthat.
And I think that isspecifically you and Eric and
the team at LBM, because we'vebeen working really closely
together for for the last 18months.
That team has changed a lot inthe 18 months.
(23:55):
You guys have made a lot ofimprovements and added team
members and regional staff andall of these things.
So you're willing to shakethings up.
And with this that we're doing,I mean, look at us.
We're on the podcast boothfloor here.
Russ Kathrein (24:07):
You might say we're willing to try a different
hands.
Stefanie Couch (24:09):
I was gonna say, uh, the pinker the better, I
think.
But I am excited to just seethat you guys are willing to
take some risk.
And I think to the victor, youknow, of the person that's
willing to try some things,usually goes the spoils.
So I'm excited.
Russ Kathrein (24:23):
Well, we're very happy to have you on the team
and thank you for all your hardwork.
Stefanie Couch (24:26):
Thank you.
And you do look good in pink.
Russ Kathrein (24:28):
I'm, you know, I've been told that.
Stefanie Couch (24:31):
Thank you, Russ.
You're an amazing partner, andI'm excited about this market
and what's to come.
So thank you for joining me onthe Grip Blueprint.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to theGrit Blueprint Podcast.
If this episode helped youthink a little differently about
how to show up, share it withsomeone in your building world
who needs it.
If you're ready to turnvisibility into growth, then
(24:52):
head to gripblueprint.com tolearn more and book a call to
talk to us about your growthstrategy.
Until next time, stayunmistakable.
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