Rick Schumacher of LBM Journal shares how independent lumber dealers can thrive amid industry giants by focusing on customer service, community connection, and embracing new technologies like AI. The conversation explores the power of storytelling in the building materials industry and how print media remains relevant in a digital world.
• Started LBM Journal in 2003 from home after previous magazine went bankrupt
• Built LBM Journal to become the #1 industry publication by focusing on "audience first" rather than "digital first"
• Creates community through telling stories of independent dealers like Baker Lumber (owned by daughters despite "and Sons" name)
• Shares how exceptional service at independent dealers creates competitive advantage against big box stores
• Highlights LBM Strategies Conference which intentionally limits sponsors to focus on dealer experience
• Established Century Club honoring lumber dealers over 100 years old, with combined 38,000 years of business experience
• Created 40 Under 40 program to recognize young industry leaders and foster next generation of talent
• AI presents an 18-24 month "arbitrage moment" before fundamentally changing the industry
• Emphasizes opportunity for young people in an industry with stability, community, and growth potential
Watch the Video Version
Catch this episode of The Grit Blueprint Podcast on YouTube:
👉 Stefanie Couch on YouTube
Subscribe to Built to Win
Get exclusive insights, tools, and updates from Grit Blueprint, designed to help you lead and win in the building industry.
👉 Subscribe to Built to Win
Connect with Stefanie Couch & Grit Blueprint
Grit Website: GritBlueprint.com
YouTube: Stefanie Couch
Instagram: @StefanieCouchOfficial
LinkedIn: Stefanie Couch
Stefanie’s Website: StefanieCouch.com
👉 What Is Grit Blueprint?
Grit Blueprint is a media and growth company for the building industry. We help ambitious businesses in the building materials and construction industries grow through visibility, storytelling media, and smart systems.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rick Schumacher (00:00):
Reality isn't the way it appears to be or the
way you wish things to be, butthe way things actually are.
Either use reality to yourbenefit or it'll automatically
work against you.
Stefanie Couch (00:08):
Oh, that's stroll.
Rick Schumacher (00:09):
And the reality is that AI is here.
Stefanie Couch (00:11):
It is.
Rick Schumacher (00:11):
AI used to be a lot more scary to me than it is
now.
I don't think it's gonnareplace people.
I think it's just gonna be atool for us to work smarter.
And it's like any any othertool, people who get in early
and use it to their benefit.
Stefanie Couch (00:22):
I don't think people understand.
You can start using AI andreally get pretty good at it
pretty quickly.
Everybody can use it.
It'll teach you how to useitself.
We do not have 20 years ofrev-up period like we did with
the internet.
We have an arbitrage moment, 18to 24 months, and the whole
world will be completelydifferent.
It'll be probably faster thanthat, but I think in our
(00:45):
industry we're still gonna holdback a little bit because we are
so slow to change.
I really believe in 18 to 24months it looks totally
different.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast, the playbook for
building unmistakable brandsthat grow, lead, and last in the
built world.
I'm Stefanie Couch, the founderof Grit Blueprint, and I'm a
(01:07):
lifelong building industryinsider.
I was raised here, built mycareer here, and now my team and
I help others win here.
The truth is, you can be thebest option in your space and
still lose to someone else whosimply shows up better and more
consistently.
Each week on the GritBlueprint, I'm going to show you
(01:30):
how to stand out, earn trust,and turn your brand into a
competitive advantage thatlasts.
If you're ready to be seen,known, chosen, and become
unmistakable, you're in theright place.
Let's get started.
Thank you for joining me on theGrit Blueprint Podcast.
I am your host, Stefanie Couch,and we are coming to you live
(01:51):
from the bustling floor on theDo-It Best Market.
We're in Indianapolis, and I'mhere today with a very special
guest, Rick Schumacher from LBMJournal.
Welcome to the show, Rick.
Rick Schumacher (02:03):
Thanks, Stefanie.
Stefanie Couch (02:04):
And there's a lot of things happening around
us right now.
People everywhere.
The market floor actually justopened about 30 minutes ago.
It's the first night of theshow.
We do a preview here.
There's food, there's all thefun things.
But I want to talk to you aboutsome other fun things that you
have going on because I'veactually known you for a while.
You have an amazing industrymagazine and online publication
(02:27):
as well.
So I've got a copy here, andyou just gave me this.
You didn't plan this, but I'mgonna act like you did because
I'm obsessed with goldenretrievers.
And this episode has or thismagazine cover has a beautiful
golden retriever on here, andhis name is Blue.
I see.
And this is actually what youdo is tell stories of people in
(02:47):
the industry.
Rick Schumacher (02:48):
Correct.
Stefanie Couch (02:49):
And you've been doing this for a long time.
So you have been in theindustry longer than this, but
you started LBN Journal in 2003.
Rick Schumacher (02:55):
Yes.
Stefanie Couch (02:55):
Tell me a little bit about why you started it
and what need you saw that youfilled in the industry.
Rick Schumacher (03:00):
Okay, well, I started so the story is I I
started working, I worked foranother magazine called that
called Building Material Dealer,starting in 1990.
And I worked for that for 13years, and I just kind of worked
my way up.
By 2003, I was running the daythe day-to-day operations, and
there was a lawsuit that put themagazine out of business.
So I had to bring my teamtogether and tell them as of
(03:24):
today, we're in chapter sevenbankruptcy.
So turn in your card key and wecould all go home because we're
done.
There's there's nothing else todo for us here.
There's no more job, no morepaychecks.
So time to go.
But I said, um, but I we've gota great team, a great product,
a great reputation.
So I'm not ready to walk awayyet.
So I'm gonna launch a newmagazine from home.
Since there's no investors,there's no money for office
(03:45):
space, there's no guaranteeanyone's ever gonna get paid.
So who's with me?
And so that's how we gotstarted.
So we had wow.
So I started it because this isthe one thing I knew how to do.
And we had built theserelationships.
So three people came with andtwo of them are still with me
today.
Stefanie Couch (04:02):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (04:02):
Yeah, Jody Cook, Redwood, our associate
publisher, and Rich Hart, ourdesign uh creative director.
Stefanie Couch (04:09):
Isn't it interesting how the things in
life that could be the worstmoments end up being the
catalyst for something that setsyou in a totally great
direction?
I mean, that's been a longtime, 22 years, um almost 23
years.
And you could have just said,Well, I guess I'll go get
another job, but you took theleap and that's really cool.
Your team went with you aswell.
(04:31):
I think that shows a lot aboutwho you are as a leader.
Rick Schumacher (04:34):
It's they're really good people, and we had a
we just have a great thingtogether.
Stefanie Couch (04:37):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So you do a lot of things inthe industry that are not just
on these pages in a magazine.
Rick Schumacher (04:44):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (04:45):
Tell me a little bit about LBM Journal today and
what are you doing?
What's your mission and how doyou serve the overall industry?
Because this industry does liketo get information a more
traditional way, but you're alsocoming into the tech space with
social media and a lot ofevents and postings.
Tell me about that.
Rick Schumacher (05:05):
Well, we're I guess kind of like our overall
our mission is to build thecommunity.
So it's not um we don't dothings that necessarily
everything doesn't have to makemoney, you know.
We don't have we're never gonnahave Lowe's or Home Depot on
the cover ever.
You know, and other magazinesdo because that's where there's
money.
So in this one, we have BakerLumber, a little lumber yard in
(05:29):
um in Michigan with Blue, theirdog, on the cover.
I mean, this is not gonna, thisis not a moneymaker, but this
is the community.
Yeah, and they've got a greatstory.
They do.
So that's the thing.
We're just we're it's aboutstrengthening the the building
the community because it's agreat the LBM community is full
of amazing people.
Stefanie Couch (05:48):
Yeah, and it's really the heart of what our our
business is is people likeBaker Lumber.
So tell me about Baker Lumberbecause you said something funny
when you first talked about thecover that it's Baker Lumber.
So tell me what you said.
Rick Schumacher (06:01):
Company was called Baker Lumber and Sons.
Stefanie Couch (06:04):
Yes.
Rick Schumacher (06:05):
But it's actually owned by daughters.
Stefanie Couch (06:07):
I love it.
The irony is amazing, right?
And the cool part about that isthat I'm sure that the dad or
granddad started it.
Um, you know, I'm thirdgeneration lumber yard, my
granddad started his, then mydad, and now here I am.
Uh my dad had three daughters,he didn't have any sons, so it
was either me or nobody.
Rick Schumacher (06:25):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (06:25):
So here we are.
Rick Schumacher (06:26):
Yeah.
Stefanie Couch (06:27):
Tell me about their story a little bit.
Rick Schumacher (06:29):
It's like a family that came together to to
do this thing that's importantfor their community.
Yeah.
And so they, you know, there'sso they came, they had um, like
there's a son too, and he um hewent off and was like an
accountant for a big accountingfirm.
And so it's just everybody justkind of they went off and then
(06:50):
they came back and now they'reand now they're home.
Stefanie Couch (06:52):
That's cool.
A lot of people do that, youknow.
Chick-fil-A, um, they actually,I think, made all of their kids
and grandkids go work somewhereelse beside that to just see
what it's like not being, youknow, in that culture.
I think that helped me a lotwhen I went to a bigger company
to have the view of differentthings and kind of take some
good from that, take some badfrom that, and figure out what
(07:14):
needed to be there.
I think that's helped me a lotin my business.
Yeah.
When you look at media today andlike the stories that you tell,
I would love to hear just oneor two that that be like really
resonate with people that someof the things you've seen or
heard in the last year or two.
I mean, there's so many amazingpeople in our industry, and I
do feel like their stories justneed to be told, which is what
(07:35):
you're doing.
So tell me, tell me a few ofthem.
Rick Schumacher (07:37):
Let's talk about um Walker Lumber.
Stefanie Couch (07:38):
Oh, love Walker Lumber.
They're in Nashville, right?
Rick Schumacher (07:40):
Nashville.
We're going to we're having ourLBM Strategies conference in
Nashville because of WalkerLumber.
Stefanie Couch (07:45):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (07:45):
So they were nominated to be a LBM Dealer of
the Year.
Stefanie Couch (07:48):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (07:48):
I'd never heard of them.
Um, but we read their thenomination.
I was like, these guys have agreat story.
Yeah.
And I and they won, they, theywon the dealer of the year for
their category.
And I went to, I asked them ifthey'd come and you know, speak
at our conference.
Yeah.
And they said, yeah, but theywanted me to come out there
first and meet with them and seewhat they do and how they do
(08:09):
it.
Stefanie Couch (08:10):
So you understood.
Rick Schumacher (08:11):
Yeah, so I flew out and I just thought, okay,
it's gonna be, I mean, it'sgonna be a great company doing
great things, right?
Yeah.
But it's beyond that.
So I went, they took me out tothe lumberyard.
The um a lot of a lot ofcompanies have as few workers as
they as they can get by with.
They have more than they need.
Stefanie Couch (08:30):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (08:30):
Because they have something called they have
a second chance program.
Stefanie Couch (08:33):
I've I've heard about this, it's super cool.
Rick Schumacher (08:35):
Spectacular.
So they have people who arereturning citizens, they're like
um former um people withaddictions and you know,
criminal records, but who arewanting to build a life.
Yeah, and they give them thatopportunity.
Stefanie Couch (08:48):
That's amazing.
My friend Gina Schaefer doesthe same thing, and uh, you
know, I think those stories thatshe tells that the people are
so grateful for that secondchance, and then they become
some of the best employees thatthey've ever had.
Right.
I'm sure that they have the sameat Walker Lumber.
They also have a reallybeautiful building.
I remember seeing that coverthat you did with them of that
(09:08):
white building with the blackletters, and it's very striking.
They um do they have a doorshop there?
Rick Schumacher (09:14):
I don't believe they do have a door shop there.
Stefanie Couch (09:16):
I I would love to tour it.
Um, it seems like a greatplace, and they have they have
you know something special.
What do you think?
We talked, you said Lowe's andHome Depot never be on the
cover, which I don't have aproblem with personally.
I'm curious, you know, we havethis, I'm calling it the Clash
of the Titans right now, youknow, QXO with Brad Jacobs and
(09:37):
HD and Lowe's and all of theGiants, you know, GMS's purchase
went through today for HomeDepot.
How does the independent lumberyard and dealer survive and
thrive in the market today withall the things going on?
Rick Schumacher (09:51):
I mean, I think a big part of it is like here
we're at do it best with truevalue.
And the room we just came fromthe kickoff.
I mean, pack, there wasthousands of people in there.
So it's um I I think a lot ofit is um bonding together using
co-ops.
Stefanie Couch (10:06):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (10:07):
The more personal you are, the more I
don't know, there's a real powerin that.
So there's a lot of people whoum I mean I have a funny story
about when I went to I needed awheelbarrow.
Stefanie Couch (10:18):
Okay.
Rick Schumacher (10:18):
So I went to um and it was too, it was like it
was too late to go to the localAce Hardware, which is down
downtown Lakeville.
So I went to Home Depot andthey I said, Where are the
wheelbarrows?
And they said they're backthere.
So they I went back and you hadto and they're all
disassembled, so you have tolook get the right parts.
So there's you have to get thehandle and then the thing.
Stefanie Couch (10:37):
Like a puzzle in the aisle.
Right.
Rick Schumacher (10:39):
And so I figured out which one I want,
and then I finally found thethree parts that go together to
I was really proud of myself.
So I wheeled it up to the topay for it, and it rang up for a
penny.
And so the woman said, Youcan't buy that.
It's like, well, I'll pay morethan a penny.
And she said, No, you can't buythat.
And they took it away and said,You have to go buy a different
one.
It's like, well, why can't Ibuy this one?
(10:59):
This is fine.
It's like, no, you can't.
Stefanie Couch (11:01):
You're like, I've already literally
engineered this myself.
I've already done all the workfor you.
What do you want from me?
Rick Schumacher (11:07):
So I'd been there like an hour, trying to
like wandering around by myself,trying to figure out.
And it's like, it wasridiculous.
So I so I went home without awheelbarrow.
And the next morning I went toAce Hardware.
And I walked in, I said, Do youhave wheelbarrows?
They said, Yes, we do.
And I said, they said they'reright there.
And I said, Great.
And I um and they said, Would Ipicked one out and I said, I
want that one.
They said, Would you like us toput it together for you?
(11:28):
I said, I'd love that.
Would you like us to deliverit?
It's like, I'd love that.
And it was a it was a betterquality product and it cost
less.
It didn't cost less than apenny, like the first one, but
it cost less than the ones Iwould have had.
Stefanie Couch (11:40):
Who cares if it's a penny if you can't buy
it, right?
Rick Schumacher (11:42):
Exactly.
Stefanie Couch (11:43):
It's crazy.
Rick Schumacher (11:43):
So it's like, what the hell?
You know?
Stefanie Couch (11:45):
Well, and you know, I think that's that is the
answer is the the service, theniching, you know, people that
are really good at certainthings, especially more
technical things.
Like I think about doors andwindows and uh decking railing
and things that are tough.
Like you've got to have someexpertise, and there's a lot of
parts that could go wrong.
Those are dominated, I stillfeel like by independents that
(12:06):
really have experts.
And then having a customerservice model where you care
about your people and you'reobsessed over the customer
experience, that's how peoplekeep coming back.
Because I promise, if you had achoice between that store
number one experience and storenumber two, you're going back to
number two every time, right?
Rick Schumacher (12:23):
Right.
And I wrote about that in mypublisher letter, the
wheelbarrow, because people,yeah, it was because it's so
absurd and it's real life.
Stefanie Couch (12:31):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (12:32):
And the other you asked about um independence
competing.
So um, so Walker Lumber, beforethey they bought that, they
bought that location and they umdid a bunch of research to
figure out how to build theirnew yard, what they wanted it to
look like.
And so they went out to visitGnal Lumber in Southern
California.
And um, they got a lot of ideasfrom that.
Stefanie Couch (12:50):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (12:51):
But Gnal is an independent, you know, privately
owned company in California,Southern California.
The bigger company, bignational companies keep coming
in and trying because there's somuch business out there.
Yeah.
And Gnal just continues togrow.
Like I think it's 13% growthyear after year for 20 years.
So they're just, and it's justby um by doing the right things.
Stefanie Couch (13:13):
Yeah.
So and they've built thisreputation, you know.
People ask me a lot, well, likewhat is branding?
Well, branding is not logos andcolors.
I mean, that's part of it,right?
But branding is reputation whenyou're not sitting in the room.
What does it mean for you towalk away and someone know who
you are?
Hopefully they remember who youare, and then they remember the
(13:35):
feeling, the service, good orbad, the products, all those
things.
And people like that that havethose reputations and they have
visibility, they're almostunstoppable.
And I don't know very many procontractors that would not want
to work with them instead of theopposite.
I think there's gonna be somedisruption.
You know, I I think about BradJacobs a lot.
(13:56):
I've read his book three times.
I've uh, you know, researched alot of stuff he's doing.
He he's hiring a lot of peoplethat have been in our industry
for a long time that have runUSLBM, they've run, you know,
big companies that have donewell.
He's hiring AI people fromTarget, he's hiring production
AI people for purchasing fromWalmart.
I mean, he's done this seventimes in other industries that
(14:18):
have been pretty boringindustries.
So I do think he will disruptin a he's already doing that,
but I wonder, I mean, is hegonna figure it out or not?
I don't know, you know, andthen even with the SRS, they're
a great company, they've kind ofleft them alone for now to run
their business like they werebefore.
They have a great leadershipteam.
I think about that a lot.
Like, what is that gonna looklike in two to five years?
(14:41):
I don't know because companiesthat big, they have to have to
centralize, they don't have achoice, and I do believe
decentralization, in myexperience, has been the way to
actually really dominate longterm.
Because you can build a brandthat works for your market, a
customer base that loves whatyou serve in that specific
market.
(15:01):
Yep.
When I was in two step, thatwas how we won was we we ran
under an extremely decentralizedmodel.
My boss used to tell me, he'dsay, Yeah, if I wanted to sell
lemonade in my branch, I couldsell lemonade.
And I'm like, Well, I mean, Iguess that's true.
And we did because we started adoor shop there and it was all
a fun experiment until all of asudden they were like, Wow, this
is a good idea.
Let's do it 10 other places.
(15:22):
So I think people can win ifthey get in, they get innovative
and they stay hungry and havegreat customer experience.
Rick Schumacher (15:30):
Right.
And Brad Jacobs is he's verybright, he's really sharp.
I've read his book.
Yeah, when when he started tocome into our market before he
did, yeah, I got a book, I got asigned copy of his book in the
mail.
It's like, I don't know whothis is.
Yep, but I read it, it's likethis guy is brilliant.
He is, you know, and um, andyeah, he's he's very sharp.
So I have I have no doubt thathe's gonna succeed.
Stefanie Couch (15:50):
A hundred percent.
And I think that there's stillroom for the independents, even
if when he does succeed, I won'teven say if.
Um, I feel like it's prettycertain.
Uh, seven out of eight times, Ifeel like he'll bat eight for
eight.
But that is the interestingpart is the business that he's
going after and the businessthat the independents are going
after, it can be different.
It does not have to be one orthe other.
(16:11):
So I think it's interesting.
This episode of the GritBlueprint Podcast was sponsored
by Do It Best Group.
Do It Best Group is the largestco-op in the world, and they
help independent hardware andlumber yards all over North
America win.
Do It Best offers services,products, and people that can
(16:31):
help you win long term.
They are the champion ofindependence.
Let's shift a little bit.
I want to talk about mediabecause you know the media
business is interesting.
It print media in a lot ofplaces, some would say are is
dead, but in our industry it'snot at all.
(16:54):
Um, and you've proven that, andthere's other people that are
doing it well.
I actually have sort of acontrarian view on that.
I believe that because peopleare so tired of getting digital
and emails that they actuallylike to touch and feel something
in their hands, right?
Even direct mail is doingreally well.
So, how are you balancing thatof you know the print media, the
(17:15):
digital, all the things thatyou have to do a lot now?
Rick Schumacher (17:18):
Well, you know, it's all it all comes down to
what our audience wants andwhere they want it.
So there's a story about umabout we have a print story.
So I launched this in 2003 on ashoestring, and it was just
we're this tiny little team, andwe were growing slowly.
But then in 2008, I rememberedHanleywood.
I don't know if you knew him.
Okay.
So very, very big.
(17:39):
Yep.
Stefanie Couch (17:39):
And they're sales magazine, right?
Rick Schumacher (17:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, they were the um, theywere by far the leader in our
market.
So their CEO, Hamleywood CEO,came out with a big announcement
in 2008 that they were pivotingto digital first.
And I just thought, wow, Iwonder, I thought, I wonder if
they know something I don'tknow, because for our market,
it's still a it's an olderdemographic.
They like paper, I think.
Yeah.
So then I thought, well, we dothese, we do these quarterly ad
(18:04):
studies.
And one of the questions onthat is how do you like to get
your data?
Print, digital, or both.
So I went to that and it said,well, for our audience, it was
like 90% prefer print.
Wow.
So we thought, okay, you guysgo over there and do digital
first, and we'll do audiencefirst.
So I think is if you just payattention to your audience,
yeah, and not like because printa print magazine is expensive
(18:28):
in print.
And like number crunchers, ifthey look and say, Well, if we
could get rid of the postage,which is for LBM Journal, it's
like $15,000 a month.
Stefanie Couch (18:36):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (18:36):
And the print bill is about $20,000.
Okay.
So if we can get rid of thosetwo expenses, think of how much
money we'd make.
Stefanie Couch (18:42):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (18:42):
But then you get rid of those two, and then
you don't have the product thatpeople want.
So then Yeah, so that's why inin you know, we started like
this the burr under the saddleof the big guys.
And then in 2018, we became thenumber one book in our market,
and now we're the we're theleading title in our market.
Stefanie Couch (18:58):
Yeah, you guys crush it.
Rick Schumacher (19:00):
Well, it's just from listening, it's listening
and just doing what people wantand being being nice.
Stefanie Couch (19:04):
I think that's a really good point because I
don't think you should chaseevery trend because you're never
gonna win at anything.
Most of the people that I dosee, like what you said, you
looked at the data and you wentwith what you it doesn't mean
you don't change when you needto, but you give people what
they want still.
And you're also really good.
One of the things I love aboutwhat you do at LBM Journal is
(19:26):
you're having events that teachpeople things that connect
people with LBM strategies.
So that's coming up.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat.
It's in Nashville this year,October 15th through the 17th.
Yes.
Embassy Suites in Nashville.
Nashville is like the best cityever, so I can't imagine you're
not gonna sell this thing out.
Rick Schumacher (19:44):
We have sold it out.
Stefanie Couch (19:45):
Okay, it's already sold out, so you can't
even go, but it's you can readabout it.
You can read about it, and youshould sign up for next year.
Right.
But it is a great event.
So I've been to it before.
Um, tell me a little bit aboutwhat your thought was when you
started doing that, why did youstart it, and what has it turned
into for you?
Rick Schumacher (20:02):
We started it because I went to a I went to
another um industry conference.
I was it was put on by anassociation and a magazine, and
it just felt off.
And I couldn't really, and I Ididn't know what it was, so I
looked through the m theregistration list, and about
four it just seemed like there'sway more sponsors than it than
dealers.
Yeah.
And I counted it up, and itturned out there was between
(20:23):
four and five sponsor personnelfor every one dealer.
Stefanie Couch (20:26):
Oh wow.
Rick Schumacher (20:27):
So the dealers were unhappy, the sponsors were
unhappy.
Everybody was unhappy exceptthe people who got to cash the
sponsorship checks, right?
Yeah, because that's where themoney is.
Yes.
So we decided so that thatevent died.
So we decided to launch onebecause our industry needs
something.
And we decided to put a strictlimit on the number of um
sponsors.
So we have so we actually sowe'll actually sell out of
(20:48):
sponsorships and turn peopleaway and turn away money, which
for a media, a little mediacompany is very weird.
Stefanie Couch (20:53):
Yeah.
But um I love the FOMO thatcreates though.
Very smart.
Rick Schumacher (20:58):
Yeah, so it's um, so we do that and then we I
mean, this year we're limited.
Well, we're always limited bysize, but this year it's the I
mean, we're just spreading.
Stefanie Couch (21:07):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (21:07):
Most of the people that get on the stage are
dealers themselves.
And that's by design.
We don't have a lot ofconsultants and people who've
never done it but like to talkabout it.
Stefanie Couch (21:16):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (21:16):
Because they're not we don't want them talking
to our people.
Stefanie Couch (21:20):
Yeah, our industry doesn't take kindly to
people who don't know how toactually do what they're saying.
Rick Schumacher (21:25):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (21:26):
Um, I get told that a lot because you know,
I've I've been in this a longtime and people don't like that.
So when you start talking aboutall the things that you you
know, they are like, oh, okay,you actually know what you're
talking about because you grewup on a lumbery art and you
worked in a big door shop for 10years.
So but it's interesting whenyou think about what people are
talking about.
(21:46):
So what topics are gonna hitthe stage at LBM Strategies this
year?
Rick Schumacher (21:50):
The number one topic, there's I mean, it
changes, there's tariffs,there's all kinds of things that
hit.
But the number one that chronicchallenge is attracting,
hiring, and retaining goodpeople.
So we have three companies thathave been named a great place
to work in their market, yeah,sharing how they do that.
Stefanie Couch (22:05):
Okay, who are they?
Rick Schumacher (22:07):
Okay, we have um Par Lumber.
Yeah, we have Erie Materials,and we have uh Star Lumber.
Stefanie Couch (22:13):
Oh, okay.
Rick Schumacher (22:14):
So um, and they're they all have great
stories.
That's awesome.
And we have um we're gonna haveRay Ray Hales, the C the well,
the former co-owner of US ofWalker Lumber, because they sold
to USLBM.
Yep.
So he and I are gonna talk fora half hour just about the
operational things they'redoing.
They have a thing where theythey track how long it takes for
people to get in and out oftheir yard.
(22:35):
So they they time that.
So it's the average is 17minutes.
Stefanie Couch (22:39):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (22:40):
So we're gonna talk about how they track
getting people in and out in 17minutes.
Stefanie Couch (22:44):
Is that from like the moment they walk in the
door, take the order, checkout,and everything, or just get
into the yard?
Rick Schumacher (22:49):
That's when from when they pull into this
area.
Okay, and then they when theypull out.
Stefanie Couch (22:54):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
I mean, you see that atdrive-throughs, it makes sense
to use that type of technologyin in a lumber yard as well.
I mean, if it works forsomebody like a Chick-fil-A or
somebody like that to efficientmake efficiency happen, it I
think it's a good idea.
Right.
Yeah, you know, I talked toScott Morrison yesterday, he's
here with Do It Best, um, themember operations excellence
(23:15):
guy, and he's got 40 years ofexperience, and we were talking
about that because we laid out adoor shop and uh laid out we
had a hard choice to make.
One way was gonna get us 400more slots in the location,
which was a lot in a bigdistribution facility.
It was 170,000 square feet.
The other way was gonna give usbetter fort lift flow flow.
(23:37):
We chose the 400 spots, wechose wrong.
Rick Schumacher (23:40):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (23:40):
Um, almost immediately we were like, this
was a big mistake.
And to unbolt down racking andrelay out a shop like that with
uh 1,500 plus things that arealready filled with stuff.
Yeah, it's I mean, the painthere is a lot.
So getting something right likethat, it's a big deal.
And I think that that'ssomething I hear a lot of people
(24:01):
talk about.
It's a cool program they havehere at Do It Best to do that.
I think it's uh it's gonna bevery well received.
Rick Schumacher (24:06):
And Scott Morrison is very sharp.
I've known him for years.
Yeah, he's yeah, he's he knowshe really knows the stuff on
lean.
Stefanie Couch (24:12):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (24:12):
And the yard design, yeah.
He's very good.
Stefanie Couch (24:14):
And I'm sure he can walk in and kind of kind of
see what needs to be done.
But he he was actually sayingthat a lot of the people that he
works with already kind of knowwhat the problem and possible
solution is.
They just don't know exactlyhow to implement it.
So that's what he's reallyhelping them do, which is cool.
Rick Schumacher (24:27):
Yeah.
Stefanie Couch (24:28):
Well, tell me a little bit more about you have
an award ceremony that you giveout some awards at LBM
Strategies, which you started,was it two years ago?
Rick Schumacher (24:39):
Yeah, we started doing that yeah, two
years ago.
Stefanie Couch (24:41):
Okay.
Tell me about that.
Rick Schumacher (24:42):
Okay, so we well, we have um we have a few
programs.
We have our century club, whichhonors lumber dealers that have
been around more than 100years, which is awesome.
Stefanie Couch (24:51):
And it's really cool.
Rick Schumacher (24:52):
And and every and as we get uh like every year
now, it's like it's kind ofspeeding up and we're getting
more and more and more newmembers.
Yeah.
So it's really it's right nowthat like the total years, it's
like 38,000 years totalcombined.
Stefanie Couch (25:05):
That is that is so I love that about our
industry.
It is a really interestingthing that I don't think many
industries have that.
Rick Schumacher (25:12):
No, they I they for sure don't.
Stefanie Couch (25:13):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (25:14):
So we so we recognize them.
We recognize um we have a 40under 40 that we started, and
that was to honor um andcelebrate the young leaders in
our industry.
And there are, even thoughthere's it's a tough a lot of
our um audience has a tough timeattracting and hiring young
people, yeah.
There's some really, reallysharp ones out there.
So we actually have a panel, aone-hour panel discussion this
(25:35):
year with a member of lastyear's 40 40 under 40 now um
moderating it.
Okay, with five members of thisyear's class on the panel.
That'll be great.
So it's gonna be talking aboutwhat they're looking for in
their next adventure, how theycan, how lumber dealers can
attract young people.
Stefanie Couch (25:52):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (25:53):
So that's gonna be good.
Stefanie Couch (25:54):
That'll be awesome.
And I love that you'rehighlighting those people.
I remember when I first got youknow an award from something
like that.
It was like the best day of mylife.
Um, it really did inspire me todo more because it was like,
okay, I I'm doing something, I'mworking hard, I got recognized,
and then it was like, I need towork harder, I need to do more.
(26:14):
And then it also allowed me 40under 40, you get to meet 39
other amazing comrades that arein the industry, most likely are
not competitors, right?
And you can band together andactually grow together, which is
super cool.
So you're making like a littleclub of just lumber yard and
dealers that are awesome, andthey're young people that are
(26:36):
awesome in it.
To I think that's cool.
Rick Schumacher (26:38):
And that's what and that's the whole building
the community thing.
Stefanie Couch (26:40):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (26:41):
Because that's my goal is to also, I mean, we
want to do more things with dothings to kind of organize them,
keeping them together wherethey can build build the
community and like bring in nextyear's people and next year's
people, and like that.
And it's just we're LBMjournals a tiny, tiny team, so
we don't have the you knowbandwidth to do everything we
want to do, but that's that's onour wish list.
Stefanie Couch (27:03):
Well, I'm sure you'll get there.
It seems like you've beenmaking big moves the last two
years.
So, I mean, the LBM strategiesstarted as what like 200 people
or something, and now it's likea it was like less than 100.
Okay, so what did it sell outat this year?
Rick Schumacher (27:15):
Well, this year it sold out at 250 people.
Stefanie Couch (27:18):
Wow, that's amazing.
Rick Schumacher (27:19):
And we're and we're a month and a half away,
so we could have easily gone alot bigger.
Yeah.
And the goal isn't to make itbig, the goal is just to and
people have talked, it's like,how big do you want it to grow?
It's like, I don't really wantit.
Yeah, it's about just we wantto keep it where it works for
everybody.
Stefanie Couch (27:33):
Yeah, I think it's really smart though to keep
it exclusive where you don'thave like it's not trying to
sell as many tickets as you can.
It's here's what we're gonnado.
And if you want to come andyou're the first 250, awesome.
And if not, then see you nextyear.
Next year, exactly.
Where do you know where it'sgonna be next year?
Are you announcing?
Rick Schumacher (27:51):
I think we know where it's gonna be, but we're
waiting until the we lock in allthe hotel details.
Stefanie Couch (27:55):
Okay, well, I can't wait to hear about it.
Rick Schumacher (27:56):
That's we'll know that um soon.
Stefanie Couch (27:58):
That's awesome.
Rick Schumacher (27:59):
Yeah, it's gonna be good.
Stefanie Couch (28:00):
If you could tell the someone who is a
younger person and is thinkingabout getting into the industry
based on all the greatconversations you have, I think
there's a lot of opportunity inthis industry, but people maybe
don't know.
Rick Schumacher (28:13):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (28:13):
What would be some things that you would tell
people, younger people that arethinking about getting into this
business?
Rick Schumacher (28:19):
I would tell them um that there's an
incredible opportunity, thatpeople are always gonna need
houses, that the people who runlumber yards for the most part
are just really, really goodpeople.
It's a really good community.
And it's something where youcan um you can start off working
there in high school, you know,and then end up just running
(28:43):
the company someday or openingyour own.
I mean, and there's you canearn a really good living.
Stefanie Couch (28:47):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (28:48):
And it's not it's not sexy like whatever,
Google or tech.
Stefanie Couch (28:53):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (28:53):
But it's but it's real.
Stefanie Couch (28:54):
You know, Google got really unsexy when they
laid off all those people thelast few years.
Rick Schumacher (28:59):
That wasn't very sexy.
Stefanie Couch (29:00):
It was uh I had actually had someone I know that
worked at Zoom and uh it didn'tend well, and I'm like, yeah,
those sexy tech jobs weren'treally like too great when
everybody got laid off.
I think every industry hasmoments where it's hot to trot,
and sometimes it just isn't.
And our industry, you youmentioned the Century Club.
I was just doing a engagementwith Do It Best here, and we
(29:24):
were talking about AI and socialmedia and all the things, and I
actually asked the room,there's like 120 people in
there, how many of you havebusinesses that are older than
20 years?
Basically the whole room, raiseyour hand.
How many of you have 50 years?
Oh at least half.
How many are over 100?
There was three, and so thatwas a room 120 people, so that's
(29:45):
pretty darn cool that that manypeople have legacy businesses.
I am seeing so many thirdgeneration, fourth generation
come along and they've seen whattheir family has done, they
want to do that plus some, theydon't want to.
Let down the legacy.
Right.
And they're trying to innovate.
How do you think AI andtechnology and all the things
(30:06):
that are coming so quickly downthe pipeline?
How's that going to affect ourindustry?
What do you think the greatopportunities are and what
scares you?
Rick Schumacher (30:14):
You know, I think the AI used to be a lot
more scary to me than it is now.
Now that I'm I'm like using itmore and playing around with it.
Stefanie Couch (30:22):
What's your preferred right now?
Rick Schumacher (30:23):
I've just been using Chat GPT.
Stefanie Couch (30:25):
It's pretty hard to beat Chat GPT.
Rick Schumacher (30:26):
Yeah, the Pro version.
It's very good.
But it is.
There's just, I think there'sum I don't think it's gonna
replace people.
No.
I think it's I think it's justgonna be a tool for us to work
smarter.
And it's like any any othertool, people who get in early,
you know, and and use it totheir benefit.
There's a absolutely there's asaying I have on my on my
wallets um reality isn't the wayit appears to be or the way you
(30:50):
wish things to be, but the waythings actually are.
Either use reality to yourbenefit or it'll automatically
work against you.
Stefanie Couch (30:56):
Oh, that's strong.
Rick Schumacher (30:57):
And the reality is that AI is here.
Stefanie Couch (30:59):
It is, and you know, one thing I talk about
with people that I think I don'tthink people understand is you
can start using AI and reallyget pretty good at it pretty
quickly.
You don't have to be a coder,you don't have to be good at
tech.
Everybody can use it, it'llteach you how to use itself.
Right.
That's the crazy part.
It is the manual.
(31:19):
Um, but the biggest thing Iwant people to know is we do not
have 20 years of rev up periodlike we did with the internet.
You will not have 10 years, 15years, 20 years to get your
computer and get the you know,the internet and the Wi-Fi slow
and all those things.
No, you have, I believe truly,we have an arbitrage moment, 18
(31:40):
to 24 months, and the wholeworld will be completely
different.
I it'll be probably faster thanthat, but I think in our
industry we're still gonna holdback a little bit because we are
so slow to change.
I really believe in 18 to 24months it looks totally
different.
Rick Schumacher (31:54):
Well, we're doing so.
Speaking of AI in theconference, we have we're
starting off on our um ourWednesday afternoon, and we're
doing an an AI workshop.
Stefanie Couch (32:03):
Oh, that'll be great.
Rick Schumacher (32:04):
Yeah, so that's gonna be 90 minutes deep dive
into um how to use it practical,practical, tactical.
Stefanie Couch (32:11):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (32:11):
Yeah, and then the rest of the afternoon is the
awards.
Stefanie Couch (32:14):
That'll be awesome.
Rick Schumacher (32:15):
It's gonna be fun.
Stefanie Couch (32:16):
It will be.
I mean, there's everywhere Igo, people are asking about AI,
and I'm always surprised there'sa lot of people in the room
that have used it and some thathave never tried it.
Right.
Um, and I think that's the funpart is it's not too late to get
in on the game.
Uh, it's not going away.
And if you want to learn how touse it, if you just start with
something small like Chat GPT,writing an email, or doing a I
(32:40):
actually love to use it as aresearch assistant, you know.
Uh before this podcast, youknow, if I went in and put your
name in, there's a lot of thingsout there about you because
you're you're a media person.
But even if someone doesn'thave articles written by them or
about them, or they don't haveanything, if they just have a
LinkedIn profile, you can atleast get some tidbits from that
to know about people.
(33:00):
And I think one of the things Itook actually bringing it back
to Brad Jacobs, I thought one ofthe most interesting things in
his book, he talks about goingto school on people.
And what he means by that isjust, you know, researching and
going deep dive into people.
Um, he was actually on apodcast called the Founders
Podcast.
I don't know if you've everlistened to it.
(33:21):
It's such a good podcast, youshould check it out.
Uh, this guy reads biographiesof people and also does
sometimes does interviews, buthe read the book and did a deep
dive.
But he talks a lot about that.
That's one of the things thatmakes him so good is he knows
what he's going into.
So before he came into thisindustry, and I think that's a
big deal with AI, is you can dogreat research on people, on
(33:44):
products, on trends, uh dataanalysis, you know, five minutes
instead of 50 hours on a dataspreadsheet.
Right.
Um, I'm not a lover ofspreadsheets, Rick.
I just, it's not my thing, butI can do it with AI and it's no
big deal.
So I love it.
What's your favorite way to useAI?
Rick Schumacher (34:03):
But one way I used it, I hate spreadsheets
too.
I don't get Excel.
Stefanie Couch (34:07):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (34:07):
So I but I needed a spreadsheet for to
track our dealer profiles overthe years.
Stefanie Couch (34:11):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (34:11):
So I just so it knows it.
My chat GPT is trained andknows who I am and knows what
LBM journal is.
So I asked it to make me aspreadsheet to track our dealer
profiles.
Stefanie Couch (34:21):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (34:22):
And it made this elaborate, amazing
spreadsheet.
Stefanie Couch (34:26):
It could probably give you some really
cool data.
If you put all your your umthings, all the statistics you
have and everything.
I would love to see like whatdoes an LBM knowledge hub look
like?
Because you know, we're at GritBlueprint, we're building like
a lot of custom knowledge hubsfor people.
I think if you did that, likeyou guys could do that yourself.
And then you have all this databecause you've got it from all
(34:47):
these years.
I mean, 20 20 plus years ofman, I don't know how you would
get all those records back ofeverything you've published.
Rick Schumacher (34:57):
We have we actually have it all digitally.
Stefanie Couch (34:59):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (34:59):
And there's and actually the publishing
conference I just came from,there's some big AI companies
that are scraping and andgrabbing the knowledge from
publishers.
And so publishers' websitevisits are going down, they're
they're being they're they'relosing business.
Wow.
So there's a a coalition ofpublishers, magazine publishers
who you can join this coalitionand then they will negotiate for
(35:21):
you with a big AI company sothat they can't just take your
stuff.
Yeah, they take it, but thenthey have to pay it.
Stefanie Couch (35:27):
That is one thing that I think is gonna be a
negative from AI is that itwill be hard to know what's real
and what's not.
Rick Schumacher (35:34):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (35:34):
And also intellectual property is gonna
get really fuzzy really quickly.
Rick Schumacher (35:40):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (35:40):
Um, which you know, I I still think if you
have an article that you wrote,it's gonna be people could go
online and say say somethingfrom your article anyway and act
like it's theirs, but it's justeasier to get thousands of
things at once instead of doingit one at a time, I guess.
But for you guys, I would loveto see that data part.
That would be really cool.
Rick Schumacher (36:01):
Yeah, I'm kind of curious to see it too.
Stefanie Couch (36:02):
Yeah, and I think we could do it with a
knowledge hub.
I know how how we would buildit, but we should talk about
that because there would just beprobably some insane things
that would come out, trends,things that we don't see.
I mean, there are smarterpeople that can look through all
the spreadsheets, but it's notgonna be me, that's for sure.
But the AI can do it and thengive it to us.
Exactly.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
(36:24):
If someone is interested inlearning about working with LBM
Journal, working with you andyour team, you have a lot of
ways that they can collaboratewith you, whether they're a
dealer, a vendor, a partner.
Tell me a little bit more aboutthat.
Rick Schumacher (36:37):
Just go to LBMjournal.com and um and see
what we do.
And if you do something, I meanif you're a dealer and you're
doing cool things, write to me.
Let me know.
Um because we're always lookingfor dealers to profile.
And we're um if you're a ifyou're a manufacturer, if you're
something like that, you havesomething to sell, we have
advertising.
Stefanie Couch (36:55):
So it's like there's digital advertising,
print advertising, you guys gotit all.
But I do love that point aboutthe dealers with the cool
stories, yeah, because thesepeople are often very humble,
right?
And they don't like to telltheir stories because they feel
like it's braggadocious, butit's not.
And I would just say for theindependent spirit, I think
(37:17):
every time that the story, it'slike every time an angel gets
its wings, a bell rings.
Right.
Every time another independentdealer gets spotlighted and they
get to tell their story,someone else reads that and
thinks, I'm gonna go do more,I'm gonna go a little bit
further, I'm gonna stay in thisanother generation because they
want to be that or more in theirown business.
(37:38):
So I think it's veryinspirational.
And I do think we should allshare our stories because
visibility is really whatleadership is all about.
And I think the more you canlean into that, the better it
is.
Rick Schumacher (37:49):
Yeah, and we and we've had some some people
are scared because they've donelike we've when I first started
this, there was a I talked tosome dealers and they said,
Well, we did this once and wegot burned.
And it's like, well, how'd youget burned?
Well, we were misquoted so orsomething.
Yeah, and so we so now what wedo is we just the dealers can
they get to see what the storybeforehand.
(38:09):
So it's so it's a really theirstory.
Yeah, but it they're they'renot surprised when it comes out
in print, it's like they feelgood about it.
Stefanie Couch (38:16):
They kind of executive produce a little bit,
right?
Yeah, I don't I don't blamethem for wanting to see it, you
know.
I I'm the same way, yeah, and Ithink that's that's good that
you do that for sure.
Rick Schumacher (38:25):
What's their story?
Yeah, I mean, we're just thewe're just the messenger.
Stefanie Couch (38:28):
That's that's wonderful.
Yeah, well, thank you for allyou're doing for our industry,
and thank you for telling thestories of the people that I
love the most, the independents.
Rick Schumacher (38:36):
Well, thank you.
Stefanie Couch (38:37):
Well, and also I hope you have a wonderful
market.
It's gonna be a lot going on.
There's a lot going on, and Ithere are 9,000 people here.
So make sure you go and yes, Ibelieve there's supposed to be
9,000 people here this week.
So it is so break your walkingshoes and go check out all of
the cool stuff.
I saw there's gonna be puppiesum tomorrow.
(38:59):
I don't know if you're a doglover.
Rick Schumacher (39:00):
Golden retriever.
We have three dogs, yeah.
Stefanie Couch (39:02):
I hope there's if there's golden retrievers, I
promise you they will be in thispodcast booth, and there won't
be anyone on the earth that cankeep me from bringing them in
here.
Not one person, Rick.
Uh there last year at thespring market, there was
adoptable puppies from theHumane Society, and they're
gonna be here again this time.
Are they?
Yeah, Saturday and Sunday.
I'm gonna bring them in here.
Rick Schumacher (39:22):
Are you gonna go home with one?
Stefanie Couch (39:25):
That sounds like a great idea, Rick.
That sounds like a great idea.
My husband's in the background,very upset that you threw that
out there because it doesn'ttake much.
I'm not actually allowed to goanywhere where free dogs are
available because I'm just tooweak of a person.
So that's just not my strongsuit.
But hopefully, at least we canget one in here into the podcast
(39:46):
booth.
Rick Schumacher (39:46):
There you go.
Stefanie Couch (39:46):
All right.
Well, thank you for joining meon the grit blueprint.
And if you are interested inworking with Rick and LBM
Journal, go to lbmjournal.comand we will see you on the next
episode.
Thank you for listening to theGrit Blueprint Podcast.
If this episode helped youthink a little differently about
how to show up, share it withsomeone in your building world
(40:08):
who needs it.
If you're ready to turnvisibility into growth, then
head to gritblueprint.com tolearn more and book a call to
talk to us about your growthstrategy.
Until next time, stayunmistakable.
Reality isn't the way it appears to be or the
way you wish things to be, butthe way things actually are.
Either use reality to yourbenefit or it'll automatically
work against you.
Stefanie Couch (00:08):
Oh, that's stroll.
Rick Schumacher (00:09):
And the reality is that AI is here.
Stefanie Couch (00:11):
It is.
Rick Schumacher (00:11):
AI used to be a lot more scary to me than it is
now.
I don't think it's gonnareplace people.
I think it's just gonna be atool for us to work smarter.
And it's like any any othertool, people who get in early
and use it to their benefit.
Stefanie Couch (00:22):
I don't think people understand.
You can start using AI andreally get pretty good at it
pretty quickly.
Everybody can use it.
It'll teach you how to useitself.
We do not have 20 years ofrev-up period like we did with
the internet.
We have an arbitrage moment, 18to 24 months, and the whole
world will be completelydifferent.
It'll be probably faster thanthat, but I think in our
(00:45):
industry we're still gonna holdback a little bit because we are
so slow to change.
I really believe in 18 to 24months it looks totally
different.
Welcome to the Grit BlueprintPodcast, the playbook for
building unmistakable brandsthat grow, lead, and last in the
built world.
I'm Stefanie Couch, the founderof Grit Blueprint, and I'm a
(01:07):
lifelong building industryinsider.
I was raised here, built mycareer here, and now my team and
I help others win here.
The truth is, you can be thebest option in your space and
still lose to someone else whosimply shows up better and more
consistently.
Each week on the GritBlueprint, I'm going to show you
(01:30):
how to stand out, earn trust,and turn your brand into a
competitive advantage thatlasts.
If you're ready to be seen,known, chosen, and become
unmistakable, you're in theright place.
Let's get started.
Thank you for joining me on theGrit Blueprint Podcast.
I am your host, Stefanie Couch,and we are coming to you live
(01:51):
from the bustling floor on theDo-It Best Market.
We're in Indianapolis, and I'mhere today with a very special
guest, Rick Schumacher from LBMJournal.
Welcome to the show, Rick.
Rick Schumacher (02:03):
Thanks, Stefanie.
Stefanie Couch (02:04):
And there's a lot of things happening around
us right now.
People everywhere.
The market floor actually justopened about 30 minutes ago.
It's the first night of theshow.
We do a preview here.
There's food, there's all thefun things.
But I want to talk to you aboutsome other fun things that you
have going on because I'veactually known you for a while.
You have an amazing industrymagazine and online publication
(02:27):
as well.
So I've got a copy here, andyou just gave me this.
You didn't plan this, but I'mgonna act like you did because
I'm obsessed with goldenretrievers.
And this episode has or thismagazine cover has a beautiful
golden retriever on here, andhis name is Blue.
I see.
And this is actually what youdo is tell stories of people in
(02:47):
the industry.
Rick Schumacher (02:48):
Correct.
Stefanie Couch (02:49):
And you've been doing this for a long time.
So you have been in theindustry longer than this, but
you started LBN Journal in 2003.
Rick Schumacher (02:55):
Yes.
Stefanie Couch (02:55):
Tell me a little bit about why you started it
and what need you saw that youfilled in the industry.
Rick Schumacher (03:00):
Okay, well, I started so the story is I I
started working, I worked foranother magazine called that
called Building Material Dealer,starting in 1990.
And I worked for that for 13years, and I just kind of worked
my way up.
By 2003, I was running the daythe day-to-day operations, and
there was a lawsuit that put themagazine out of business.
So I had to bring my teamtogether and tell them as of
(03:24):
today, we're in chapter sevenbankruptcy.
So turn in your card key and wecould all go home because we're
done.
There's there's nothing else todo for us here.
There's no more job, no morepaychecks.
So time to go.
But I said, um, but I we've gota great team, a great product,
a great reputation.
So I'm not ready to walk awayyet.
So I'm gonna launch a newmagazine from home.
Since there's no investors,there's no money for office
(03:45):
space, there's no guaranteeanyone's ever gonna get paid.
So who's with me?
And so that's how we gotstarted.
So we had wow.
So I started it because this isthe one thing I knew how to do.
And we had built theserelationships.
So three people came with andtwo of them are still with me
today.
Stefanie Couch (04:02):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (04:02):
Yeah, Jody Cook, Redwood, our associate
publisher, and Rich Hart, ourdesign uh creative director.
Stefanie Couch (04:09):
Isn't it interesting how the things in
life that could be the worstmoments end up being the
catalyst for something that setsyou in a totally great
direction?
I mean, that's been a longtime, 22 years, um almost 23
years.
And you could have just said,Well, I guess I'll go get
another job, but you took theleap and that's really cool.
Your team went with you aswell.
(04:31):
I think that shows a lot aboutwho you are as a leader.
Rick Schumacher (04:34):
It's they're really good people, and we had a
we just have a great thingtogether.
Stefanie Couch (04:37):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So you do a lot of things inthe industry that are not just
on these pages in a magazine.
Rick Schumacher (04:44):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (04:45):
Tell me a little bit about LBM Journal today and
what are you doing?
What's your mission and how doyou serve the overall industry?
Because this industry does liketo get information a more
traditional way, but you're alsocoming into the tech space with
social media and a lot ofevents and postings.
Tell me about that.
Rick Schumacher (05:05):
Well, we're I guess kind of like our overall
our mission is to build thecommunity.
So it's not um we don't dothings that necessarily
everything doesn't have to makemoney, you know.
We don't have we're never gonnahave Lowe's or Home Depot on
the cover ever.
You know, and other magazinesdo because that's where there's
money.
So in this one, we have BakerLumber, a little lumber yard in
(05:29):
um in Michigan with Blue, theirdog, on the cover.
I mean, this is not gonna, thisis not a moneymaker, but this
is the community.
Yeah, and they've got a greatstory.
They do.
So that's the thing.
We're just we're it's aboutstrengthening the the building
the community because it's agreat the LBM community is full
of amazing people.
Stefanie Couch (05:48):
Yeah, and it's really the heart of what our our
business is is people likeBaker Lumber.
So tell me about Baker Lumberbecause you said something funny
when you first talked about thecover that it's Baker Lumber.
So tell me what you said.
Rick Schumacher (06:01):
Company was called Baker Lumber and Sons.
Stefanie Couch (06:04):
Yes.
Rick Schumacher (06:05):
But it's actually owned by daughters.
Stefanie Couch (06:07):
I love it.
The irony is amazing, right?
And the cool part about that isthat I'm sure that the dad or
granddad started it.
Um, you know, I'm thirdgeneration lumber yard, my
granddad started his, then mydad, and now here I am.
Uh my dad had three daughters,he didn't have any sons, so it
was either me or nobody.
Rick Schumacher (06:25):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (06:25):
So here we are.
Rick Schumacher (06:26):
Yeah.
Stefanie Couch (06:27):
Tell me about their story a little bit.
Rick Schumacher (06:29):
It's like a family that came together to to
do this thing that's importantfor their community.
Yeah.
And so they, you know, there'sso they came, they had um, like
there's a son too, and he um hewent off and was like an
accountant for a big accountingfirm.
And so it's just everybody justkind of they went off and then
(06:50):
they came back and now they'reand now they're home.
Stefanie Couch (06:52):
That's cool.
A lot of people do that, youknow.
Chick-fil-A, um, they actually,I think, made all of their kids
and grandkids go work somewhereelse beside that to just see
what it's like not being, youknow, in that culture.
I think that helped me a lotwhen I went to a bigger company
to have the view of differentthings and kind of take some
good from that, take some badfrom that, and figure out what
(07:14):
needed to be there.
I think that's helped me a lotin my business.
Yeah.
When you look at media today andlike the stories that you tell,
I would love to hear just oneor two that that be like really
resonate with people that someof the things you've seen or
heard in the last year or two.
I mean, there's so many amazingpeople in our industry, and I
do feel like their stories justneed to be told, which is what
(07:35):
you're doing.
So tell me, tell me a few ofthem.
Rick Schumacher (07:37):
Let's talk about um Walker Lumber.
Stefanie Couch (07:38):
Oh, love Walker Lumber.
They're in Nashville, right?
Rick Schumacher (07:40):
Nashville.
We're going to we're having ourLBM Strategies conference in
Nashville because of WalkerLumber.
Stefanie Couch (07:45):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (07:45):
So they were nominated to be a LBM Dealer of
the Year.
Stefanie Couch (07:48):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (07:48):
I'd never heard of them.
Um, but we read their thenomination.
I was like, these guys have agreat story.
Yeah.
And I and they won, they, theywon the dealer of the year for
their category.
And I went to, I asked them ifthey'd come and you know, speak
at our conference.
Yeah.
And they said, yeah, but theywanted me to come out there
first and meet with them and seewhat they do and how they do
(08:09):
it.
Stefanie Couch (08:10):
So you understood.
Rick Schumacher (08:11):
Yeah, so I flew out and I just thought, okay,
it's gonna be, I mean, it'sgonna be a great company doing
great things, right?
Yeah.
But it's beyond that.
So I went, they took me out tothe lumberyard.
The um a lot of a lot ofcompanies have as few workers as
they as they can get by with.
They have more than they need.
Stefanie Couch (08:30):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (08:30):
Because they have something called they have
a second chance program.
Stefanie Couch (08:33):
I've I've heard about this, it's super cool.
Rick Schumacher (08:35):
Spectacular.
So they have people who arereturning citizens, they're like
um former um people withaddictions and you know,
criminal records, but who arewanting to build a life.
Yeah, and they give them thatopportunity.
Stefanie Couch (08:48):
That's amazing.
My friend Gina Schaefer doesthe same thing, and uh, you
know, I think those stories thatshe tells that the people are
so grateful for that secondchance, and then they become
some of the best employees thatthey've ever had.
Right.
I'm sure that they have the sameat Walker Lumber.
They also have a reallybeautiful building.
I remember seeing that coverthat you did with them of that
(09:08):
white building with the blackletters, and it's very striking.
They um do they have a doorshop there?
Rick Schumacher (09:14):
I don't believe they do have a door shop there.
Stefanie Couch (09:16):
I I would love to tour it.
Um, it seems like a greatplace, and they have they have
you know something special.
What do you think?
We talked, you said Lowe's andHome Depot never be on the
cover, which I don't have aproblem with personally.
I'm curious, you know, we havethis, I'm calling it the Clash
of the Titans right now, youknow, QXO with Brad Jacobs and
(09:37):
HD and Lowe's and all of theGiants, you know, GMS's purchase
went through today for HomeDepot.
How does the independent lumberyard and dealer survive and
thrive in the market today withall the things going on?
Rick Schumacher (09:51):
I mean, I think a big part of it is like here
we're at do it best with truevalue.
And the room we just came fromthe kickoff.
I mean, pack, there wasthousands of people in there.
So it's um I I think a lot ofit is um bonding together using
co-ops.
Stefanie Couch (10:06):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (10:07):
The more personal you are, the more I
don't know, there's a real powerin that.
So there's a lot of people whoum I mean I have a funny story
about when I went to I needed awheelbarrow.
Stefanie Couch (10:18):
Okay.
Rick Schumacher (10:18):
So I went to um and it was too, it was like it
was too late to go to the localAce Hardware, which is down
downtown Lakeville.
So I went to Home Depot andthey I said, Where are the
wheelbarrows?
And they said they're backthere.
So they I went back and you hadto and they're all
disassembled, so you have tolook get the right parts.
So there's you have to get thehandle and then the thing.
Stefanie Couch (10:37):
Like a puzzle in the aisle.
Right.
Rick Schumacher (10:39):
And so I figured out which one I want,
and then I finally found thethree parts that go together to
I was really proud of myself.
So I wheeled it up to the topay for it, and it rang up for a
penny.
And so the woman said, Youcan't buy that.
It's like, well, I'll pay morethan a penny.
And she said, No, you can't buythat.
And they took it away and said,You have to go buy a different
one.
It's like, well, why can't Ibuy this one?
(10:59):
This is fine.
It's like, no, you can't.
Stefanie Couch (11:01):
You're like, I've already literally
engineered this myself.
I've already done all the workfor you.
What do you want from me?
Rick Schumacher (11:07):
So I'd been there like an hour, trying to
like wandering around by myself,trying to figure out.
And it's like, it wasridiculous.
So I so I went home without awheelbarrow.
And the next morning I went toAce Hardware.
And I walked in, I said, Do youhave wheelbarrows?
They said, Yes, we do.
And I said, they said they'reright there.
And I said, Great.
And I um and they said, Would Ipicked one out and I said, I
want that one.
They said, Would you like us toput it together for you?
(11:28):
I said, I'd love that.
Would you like us to deliverit?
It's like, I'd love that.
And it was a it was a betterquality product and it cost
less.
It didn't cost less than apenny, like the first one, but
it cost less than the ones Iwould have had.
Stefanie Couch (11:40):
Who cares if it's a penny if you can't buy
it, right?
Rick Schumacher (11:42):
Exactly.
Stefanie Couch (11:43):
It's crazy.
Rick Schumacher (11:43):
So it's like, what the hell?
You know?
Stefanie Couch (11:45):
Well, and you know, I think that's that is the
answer is the the service, theniching, you know, people that
are really good at certainthings, especially more
technical things.
Like I think about doors andwindows and uh decking railing
and things that are tough.
Like you've got to have someexpertise, and there's a lot of
parts that could go wrong.
Those are dominated, I stillfeel like by independents that
(12:06):
really have experts.
And then having a customerservice model where you care
about your people and you'reobsessed over the customer
experience, that's how peoplekeep coming back.
Because I promise, if you had achoice between that store
number one experience and storenumber two, you're going back to
number two every time, right?
Rick Schumacher (12:23):
Right.
And I wrote about that in mypublisher letter, the
wheelbarrow, because people,yeah, it was because it's so
absurd and it's real life.
Stefanie Couch (12:31):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (12:32):
And the other you asked about um independence
competing.
So um, so Walker Lumber, beforethey they bought that, they
bought that location and they umdid a bunch of research to
figure out how to build theirnew yard, what they wanted it to
look like.
And so they went out to visitGnal Lumber in Southern
California.
And um, they got a lot of ideasfrom that.
Stefanie Couch (12:50):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (12:51):
But Gnal is an independent, you know, privately
owned company in California,Southern California.
The bigger company, bignational companies keep coming
in and trying because there's somuch business out there.
Yeah.
And Gnal just continues togrow.
Like I think it's 13% growthyear after year for 20 years.
So they're just, and it's justby um by doing the right things.
Stefanie Couch (13:13):
Yeah.
So and they've built thisreputation, you know.
People ask me a lot, well, likewhat is branding?
Well, branding is not logos andcolors.
I mean, that's part of it,right?
But branding is reputation whenyou're not sitting in the room.
What does it mean for you towalk away and someone know who
you are?
Hopefully they remember who youare, and then they remember the
(13:35):
feeling, the service, good orbad, the products, all those
things.
And people like that that havethose reputations and they have
visibility, they're almostunstoppable.
And I don't know very many procontractors that would not want
to work with them instead of theopposite.
I think there's gonna be somedisruption.
You know, I I think about BradJacobs a lot.
(13:56):
I've read his book three times.
I've uh, you know, researched alot of stuff he's doing.
He he's hiring a lot of peoplethat have been in our industry
for a long time that have runUSLBM, they've run, you know,
big companies that have donewell.
He's hiring AI people fromTarget, he's hiring production
AI people for purchasing fromWalmart.
I mean, he's done this seventimes in other industries that
(14:18):
have been pretty boringindustries.
So I do think he will disruptin a he's already doing that,
but I wonder, I mean, is hegonna figure it out or not?
I don't know, you know, andthen even with the SRS, they're
a great company, they've kind ofleft them alone for now to run
their business like they werebefore.
They have a great leadershipteam.
I think about that a lot.
Like, what is that gonna looklike in two to five years?
(14:41):
I don't know because companiesthat big, they have to have to
centralize, they don't have achoice, and I do believe
decentralization, in myexperience, has been the way to
actually really dominate longterm.
Because you can build a brandthat works for your market, a
customer base that loves whatyou serve in that specific
market.
(15:01):
Yep.
When I was in two step, thatwas how we won was we we ran
under an extremely decentralizedmodel.
My boss used to tell me, he'dsay, Yeah, if I wanted to sell
lemonade in my branch, I couldsell lemonade.
And I'm like, Well, I mean, Iguess that's true.
And we did because we started adoor shop there and it was all
a fun experiment until all of asudden they were like, Wow, this
is a good idea.
Let's do it 10 other places.
(15:22):
So I think people can win ifthey get in, they get innovative
and they stay hungry and havegreat customer experience.
Rick Schumacher (15:30):
Right.
And Brad Jacobs is he's verybright, he's really sharp.
I've read his book.
Yeah, when when he started tocome into our market before he
did, yeah, I got a book, I got asigned copy of his book in the
mail.
It's like, I don't know whothis is.
Yep, but I read it, it's likethis guy is brilliant.
He is, you know, and um, andyeah, he's he's very sharp.
So I have I have no doubt thathe's gonna succeed.
Stefanie Couch (15:50):
A hundred percent.
And I think that there's stillroom for the independents, even
if when he does succeed, I won'teven say if.
Um, I feel like it's prettycertain.
Uh, seven out of eight times, Ifeel like he'll bat eight for
eight.
But that is the interestingpart is the business that he's
going after and the businessthat the independents are going
after, it can be different.
It does not have to be one orthe other.
(16:11):
So I think it's interesting.
This episode of the GritBlueprint Podcast was sponsored
by Do It Best Group.
Do It Best Group is the largestco-op in the world, and they
help independent hardware andlumber yards all over North
America win.
Do It Best offers services,products, and people that can
(16:31):
help you win long term.
They are the champion ofindependence.
Let's shift a little bit.
I want to talk about mediabecause you know the media
business is interesting.
It print media in a lot ofplaces, some would say are is
dead, but in our industry it'snot at all.
(16:54):
Um, and you've proven that, andthere's other people that are
doing it well.
I actually have sort of acontrarian view on that.
I believe that because peopleare so tired of getting digital
and emails that they actuallylike to touch and feel something
in their hands, right?
Even direct mail is doingreally well.
So, how are you balancing thatof you know the print media, the
(17:15):
digital, all the things thatyou have to do a lot now?
Rick Schumacher (17:18):
Well, you know, it's all it all comes down to
what our audience wants andwhere they want it.
So there's a story about umabout we have a print story.
So I launched this in 2003 on ashoestring, and it was just
we're this tiny little team, andwe were growing slowly.
But then in 2008, I rememberedHanleywood.
I don't know if you knew him.
Okay.
So very, very big.
(17:39):
Yep.
Stefanie Couch (17:39):
And they're sales magazine, right?
Rick Schumacher (17:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, they were the um, theywere by far the leader in our
market.
So their CEO, Hamleywood CEO,came out with a big announcement
in 2008 that they were pivotingto digital first.
And I just thought, wow, Iwonder, I thought, I wonder if
they know something I don'tknow, because for our market,
it's still a it's an olderdemographic.
They like paper, I think.
Yeah.
So then I thought, well, we dothese, we do these quarterly ad
(18:04):
studies.
And one of the questions onthat is how do you like to get
your data?
Print, digital, or both.
So I went to that and it said,well, for our audience, it was
like 90% prefer print.
Wow.
So we thought, okay, you guysgo over there and do digital
first, and we'll do audiencefirst.
So I think is if you just payattention to your audience,
yeah, and not like because printa print magazine is expensive
(18:28):
in print.
And like number crunchers, ifthey look and say, Well, if we
could get rid of the postage,which is for LBM Journal, it's
like $15,000 a month.
Stefanie Couch (18:36):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (18:36):
And the print bill is about $20,000.
Okay.
So if we can get rid of thosetwo expenses, think of how much
money we'd make.
Stefanie Couch (18:42):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (18:42):
But then you get rid of those two, and then
you don't have the product thatpeople want.
So then Yeah, so that's why inin you know, we started like
this the burr under the saddleof the big guys.
And then in 2018, we became thenumber one book in our market,
and now we're the we're theleading title in our market.
Stefanie Couch (18:58):
Yeah, you guys crush it.
Rick Schumacher (19:00):
Well, it's just from listening, it's listening
and just doing what people wantand being being nice.
Stefanie Couch (19:04):
I think that's a really good point because I
don't think you should chaseevery trend because you're never
gonna win at anything.
Most of the people that I dosee, like what you said, you
looked at the data and you wentwith what you it doesn't mean
you don't change when you needto, but you give people what
they want still.
And you're also really good.
One of the things I love aboutwhat you do at LBM Journal is
(19:26):
you're having events that teachpeople things that connect
people with LBM strategies.
So that's coming up.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat.
It's in Nashville this year,October 15th through the 17th.
Yes.
Embassy Suites in Nashville.
Nashville is like the best cityever, so I can't imagine you're
not gonna sell this thing out.
Rick Schumacher (19:44):
We have sold it out.
Stefanie Couch (19:45):
Okay, it's already sold out, so you can't
even go, but it's you can readabout it.
You can read about it, and youshould sign up for next year.
Right.
But it is a great event.
So I've been to it before.
Um, tell me a little bit aboutwhat your thought was when you
started doing that, why did youstart it, and what has it turned
into for you?
Rick Schumacher (20:02):
We started it because I went to a I went to
another um industry conference.
I was it was put on by anassociation and a magazine, and
it just felt off.
And I couldn't really, and I Ididn't know what it was, so I
looked through the m theregistration list, and about
four it just seemed like there'sway more sponsors than it than
dealers.
Yeah.
And I counted it up, and itturned out there was between
(20:23):
four and five sponsor personnelfor every one dealer.
Stefanie Couch (20:26):
Oh wow.
Rick Schumacher (20:27):
So the dealers were unhappy, the sponsors were
unhappy.
Everybody was unhappy exceptthe people who got to cash the
sponsorship checks, right?
Yeah, because that's where themoney is.
Yes.
So we decided so that thatevent died.
So we decided to launch onebecause our industry needs
something.
And we decided to put a strictlimit on the number of um
sponsors.
So we have so we actually sowe'll actually sell out of
(20:48):
sponsorships and turn peopleaway and turn away money, which
for a media, a little mediacompany is very weird.
Stefanie Couch (20:53):
Yeah.
But um I love the FOMO thatcreates though.
Very smart.
Rick Schumacher (20:58):
Yeah, so it's um, so we do that and then we I
mean, this year we're limited.
Well, we're always limited bysize, but this year it's the I
mean, we're just spreading.
Stefanie Couch (21:07):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (21:07):
Most of the people that get on the stage are
dealers themselves.
And that's by design.
We don't have a lot ofconsultants and people who've
never done it but like to talkabout it.
Stefanie Couch (21:16):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (21:16):
Because they're not we don't want them talking
to our people.
Stefanie Couch (21:20):
Yeah, our industry doesn't take kindly to
people who don't know how toactually do what they're saying.
Rick Schumacher (21:25):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (21:26):
Um, I get told that a lot because you know,
I've I've been in this a longtime and people don't like that.
So when you start talking aboutall the things that you you
know, they are like, oh, okay,you actually know what you're
talking about because you grewup on a lumbery art and you
worked in a big door shop for 10years.
So but it's interesting whenyou think about what people are
talking about.
(21:46):
So what topics are gonna hitthe stage at LBM Strategies this
year?
Rick Schumacher (21:50):
The number one topic, there's I mean, it
changes, there's tariffs,there's all kinds of things that
hit.
But the number one that chronicchallenge is attracting,
hiring, and retaining goodpeople.
So we have three companies thathave been named a great place
to work in their market, yeah,sharing how they do that.
Stefanie Couch (22:05):
Okay, who are they?
Rick Schumacher (22:07):
Okay, we have um Par Lumber.
Yeah, we have Erie Materials,and we have uh Star Lumber.
Stefanie Couch (22:13):
Oh, okay.
Rick Schumacher (22:14):
So um, and they're they all have great
stories.
That's awesome.
And we have um we're gonna haveRay Ray Hales, the C the well,
the former co-owner of US ofWalker Lumber, because they sold
to USLBM.
Yep.
So he and I are gonna talk fora half hour just about the
operational things they'redoing.
They have a thing where theythey track how long it takes for
people to get in and out oftheir yard.
(22:35):
So they they time that.
So it's the average is 17minutes.
Stefanie Couch (22:39):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (22:40):
So we're gonna talk about how they track
getting people in and out in 17minutes.
Stefanie Couch (22:44):
Is that from like the moment they walk in the
door, take the order, checkout,and everything, or just get
into the yard?
Rick Schumacher (22:49):
That's when from when they pull into this
area.
Okay, and then they when theypull out.
Stefanie Couch (22:54):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
I mean, you see that atdrive-throughs, it makes sense
to use that type of technologyin in a lumber yard as well.
I mean, if it works forsomebody like a Chick-fil-A or
somebody like that to efficientmake efficiency happen, it I
think it's a good idea.
Right.
Yeah, you know, I talked toScott Morrison yesterday, he's
here with Do It Best, um, themember operations excellence
(23:15):
guy, and he's got 40 years ofexperience, and we were talking
about that because we laid out adoor shop and uh laid out we
had a hard choice to make.
One way was gonna get us 400more slots in the location,
which was a lot in a bigdistribution facility.
It was 170,000 square feet.
The other way was gonna give usbetter fort lift flow flow.
(23:37):
We chose the 400 spots, wechose wrong.
Rick Schumacher (23:40):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (23:40):
Um, almost immediately we were like, this
was a big mistake.
And to unbolt down racking andrelay out a shop like that with
uh 1,500 plus things that arealready filled with stuff.
Yeah, it's I mean, the painthere is a lot.
So getting something right likethat, it's a big deal.
And I think that that'ssomething I hear a lot of people
(24:01):
talk about.
It's a cool program they havehere at Do It Best to do that.
I think it's uh it's gonna bevery well received.
Rick Schumacher (24:06):
And Scott Morrison is very sharp.
I've known him for years.
Yeah, he's yeah, he's he knowshe really knows the stuff on
lean.
Stefanie Couch (24:12):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (24:12):
And the yard design, yeah.
He's very good.
Stefanie Couch (24:14):
And I'm sure he can walk in and kind of kind of
see what needs to be done.
But he he was actually sayingthat a lot of the people that he
works with already kind of knowwhat the problem and possible
solution is.
They just don't know exactlyhow to implement it.
So that's what he's reallyhelping them do, which is cool.
Rick Schumacher (24:27):
Yeah.
Stefanie Couch (24:28):
Well, tell me a little bit more about you have
an award ceremony that you giveout some awards at LBM
Strategies, which you started,was it two years ago?
Rick Schumacher (24:39):
Yeah, we started doing that yeah, two
years ago.
Stefanie Couch (24:41):
Okay.
Tell me about that.
Rick Schumacher (24:42):
Okay, so we well, we have um we have a few
programs.
We have our century club, whichhonors lumber dealers that have
been around more than 100years, which is awesome.
Stefanie Couch (24:51):
And it's really cool.
Rick Schumacher (24:52):
And and every and as we get uh like every year
now, it's like it's kind ofspeeding up and we're getting
more and more and more newmembers.
Yeah.
So it's really it's right nowthat like the total years, it's
like 38,000 years totalcombined.
Stefanie Couch (25:05):
That is that is so I love that about our
industry.
It is a really interestingthing that I don't think many
industries have that.
Rick Schumacher (25:12):
No, they I they for sure don't.
Stefanie Couch (25:13):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (25:14):
So we so we recognize them.
We recognize um we have a 40under 40 that we started, and
that was to honor um andcelebrate the young leaders in
our industry.
And there are, even thoughthere's it's a tough a lot of
our um audience has a tough timeattracting and hiring young
people, yeah.
There's some really, reallysharp ones out there.
So we actually have a panel, aone-hour panel discussion this
(25:35):
year with a member of lastyear's 40 40 under 40 now um
moderating it.
Okay, with five members of thisyear's class on the panel.
That'll be great.
So it's gonna be talking aboutwhat they're looking for in
their next adventure, how theycan, how lumber dealers can
attract young people.
Stefanie Couch (25:52):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (25:53):
So that's gonna be good.
Stefanie Couch (25:54):
That'll be awesome.
And I love that you'rehighlighting those people.
I remember when I first got youknow an award from something
like that.
It was like the best day of mylife.
Um, it really did inspire me todo more because it was like,
okay, I I'm doing something, I'mworking hard, I got recognized,
and then it was like, I need towork harder, I need to do more.
(26:14):
And then it also allowed me 40under 40, you get to meet 39
other amazing comrades that arein the industry, most likely are
not competitors, right?
And you can band together andactually grow together, which is
super cool.
So you're making like a littleclub of just lumber yard and
dealers that are awesome, andthey're young people that are
(26:36):
awesome in it.
To I think that's cool.
Rick Schumacher (26:38):
And that's what and that's the whole building
the community thing.
Stefanie Couch (26:40):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (26:41):
Because that's my goal is to also, I mean, we
want to do more things with dothings to kind of organize them,
keeping them together wherethey can build build the
community and like bring in nextyear's people and next year's
people, and like that.
And it's just we're LBMjournals a tiny, tiny team, so
we don't have the you knowbandwidth to do everything we
want to do, but that's that's onour wish list.
Stefanie Couch (27:03):
Well, I'm sure you'll get there.
It seems like you've beenmaking big moves the last two
years.
So, I mean, the LBM strategiesstarted as what like 200 people
or something, and now it's likea it was like less than 100.
Okay, so what did it sell outat this year?
Rick Schumacher (27:15):
Well, this year it sold out at 250 people.
Stefanie Couch (27:18):
Wow, that's amazing.
Rick Schumacher (27:19):
And we're and we're a month and a half away,
so we could have easily gone alot bigger.
Yeah.
And the goal isn't to make itbig, the goal is just to and
people have talked, it's like,how big do you want it to grow?
It's like, I don't really wantit.
Yeah, it's about just we wantto keep it where it works for
everybody.
Stefanie Couch (27:33):
Yeah, I think it's really smart though to keep
it exclusive where you don'thave like it's not trying to
sell as many tickets as you can.
It's here's what we're gonnado.
And if you want to come andyou're the first 250, awesome.
And if not, then see you nextyear.
Next year, exactly.
Where do you know where it'sgonna be next year?
Are you announcing?
Rick Schumacher (27:51):
I think we know where it's gonna be, but we're
waiting until the we lock in allthe hotel details.
Stefanie Couch (27:55):
Okay, well, I can't wait to hear about it.
Rick Schumacher (27:56):
That's we'll know that um soon.
Stefanie Couch (27:58):
That's awesome.
Rick Schumacher (27:59):
Yeah, it's gonna be good.
Stefanie Couch (28:00):
If you could tell the someone who is a
younger person and is thinkingabout getting into the industry
based on all the greatconversations you have, I think
there's a lot of opportunity inthis industry, but people maybe
don't know.
Rick Schumacher (28:13):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (28:13):
What would be some things that you would tell
people, younger people that arethinking about getting into this
business?
Rick Schumacher (28:19):
I would tell them um that there's an
incredible opportunity, thatpeople are always gonna need
houses, that the people who runlumber yards for the most part
are just really, really goodpeople.
It's a really good community.
And it's something where youcan um you can start off working
there in high school, you know,and then end up just running
(28:43):
the company someday or openingyour own.
I mean, and there's you canearn a really good living.
Stefanie Couch (28:47):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (28:48):
And it's not it's not sexy like whatever,
Google or tech.
Stefanie Couch (28:53):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (28:53):
But it's but it's real.
Stefanie Couch (28:54):
You know, Google got really unsexy when they
laid off all those people thelast few years.
Rick Schumacher (28:59):
That wasn't very sexy.
Stefanie Couch (29:00):
It was uh I had actually had someone I know that
worked at Zoom and uh it didn'tend well, and I'm like, yeah,
those sexy tech jobs weren'treally like too great when
everybody got laid off.
I think every industry hasmoments where it's hot to trot,
and sometimes it just isn't.
And our industry, you youmentioned the Century Club.
I was just doing a engagementwith Do It Best here, and we
(29:24):
were talking about AI and socialmedia and all the things, and I
actually asked the room,there's like 120 people in
there, how many of you havebusinesses that are older than
20 years?
Basically the whole room, raiseyour hand.
How many of you have 50 years?
Oh at least half.
How many are over 100?
There was three, and so thatwas a room 120 people, so that's
(29:45):
pretty darn cool that that manypeople have legacy businesses.
I am seeing so many thirdgeneration, fourth generation
come along and they've seen whattheir family has done, they
want to do that plus some, theydon't want to.
Let down the legacy.
Right.
And they're trying to innovate.
How do you think AI andtechnology and all the things
(30:06):
that are coming so quickly downthe pipeline?
How's that going to affect ourindustry?
What do you think the greatopportunities are and what
scares you?
Rick Schumacher (30:14):
You know, I think the AI used to be a lot
more scary to me than it is now.
Now that I'm I'm like using itmore and playing around with it.
Stefanie Couch (30:22):
What's your preferred right now?
Rick Schumacher (30:23):
I've just been using Chat GPT.
Stefanie Couch (30:25):
It's pretty hard to beat Chat GPT.
Rick Schumacher (30:26):
Yeah, the Pro version.
It's very good.
But it is.
There's just, I think there'sum I don't think it's gonna
replace people.
No.
I think it's I think it's justgonna be a tool for us to work
smarter.
And it's like any any othertool, people who get in early,
you know, and and use it totheir benefit.
There's a absolutely there's asaying I have on my on my
wallets um reality isn't the wayit appears to be or the way you
(30:50):
wish things to be, but the waythings actually are.
Either use reality to yourbenefit or it'll automatically
work against you.
Stefanie Couch (30:56):
Oh, that's strong.
Rick Schumacher (30:57):
And the reality is that AI is here.
Stefanie Couch (30:59):
It is, and you know, one thing I talk about
with people that I think I don'tthink people understand is you
can start using AI and reallyget pretty good at it pretty
quickly.
You don't have to be a coder,you don't have to be good at
tech.
Everybody can use it, it'llteach you how to use itself.
Right.
That's the crazy part.
It is the manual.
(31:19):
Um, but the biggest thing Iwant people to know is we do not
have 20 years of rev up periodlike we did with the internet.
You will not have 10 years, 15years, 20 years to get your
computer and get the you know,the internet and the Wi-Fi slow
and all those things.
No, you have, I believe truly,we have an arbitrage moment, 18
(31:40):
to 24 months, and the wholeworld will be completely
different.
I it'll be probably faster thanthat, but I think in our
industry we're still gonna holdback a little bit because we are
so slow to change.
I really believe in 18 to 24months it looks totally
different.
Rick Schumacher (31:54):
Well, we're doing so.
Speaking of AI in theconference, we have we're
starting off on our um ourWednesday afternoon, and we're
doing an an AI workshop.
Stefanie Couch (32:03):
Oh, that'll be great.
Rick Schumacher (32:04):
Yeah, so that's gonna be 90 minutes deep dive
into um how to use it practical,practical, tactical.
Stefanie Couch (32:11):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (32:11):
Yeah, and then the rest of the afternoon is the
awards.
Stefanie Couch (32:14):
That'll be awesome.
Rick Schumacher (32:15):
It's gonna be fun.
Stefanie Couch (32:16):
It will be.
I mean, there's everywhere Igo, people are asking about AI,
and I'm always surprised there'sa lot of people in the room
that have used it and some thathave never tried it.
Right.
Um, and I think that's the funpart is it's not too late to get
in on the game.
Uh, it's not going away.
And if you want to learn how touse it, if you just start with
something small like Chat GPT,writing an email, or doing a I
(32:40):
actually love to use it as aresearch assistant, you know.
Uh before this podcast, youknow, if I went in and put your
name in, there's a lot of thingsout there about you because
you're you're a media person.
But even if someone doesn'thave articles written by them or
about them, or they don't haveanything, if they just have a
LinkedIn profile, you can atleast get some tidbits from that
to know about people.
(33:00):
And I think one of the things Itook actually bringing it back
to Brad Jacobs, I thought one ofthe most interesting things in
his book, he talks about goingto school on people.
And what he means by that isjust, you know, researching and
going deep dive into people.
Um, he was actually on apodcast called the Founders
Podcast.
I don't know if you've everlistened to it.
(33:21):
It's such a good podcast, youshould check it out.
Uh, this guy reads biographiesof people and also does
sometimes does interviews, buthe read the book and did a deep
dive.
But he talks a lot about that.
That's one of the things thatmakes him so good is he knows
what he's going into.
So before he came into thisindustry, and I think that's a
big deal with AI, is you can dogreat research on people, on
(33:44):
products, on trends, uh dataanalysis, you know, five minutes
instead of 50 hours on a dataspreadsheet.
Right.
Um, I'm not a lover ofspreadsheets, Rick.
I just, it's not my thing, butI can do it with AI and it's no
big deal.
So I love it.
What's your favorite way to useAI?
Rick Schumacher (34:03):
But one way I used it, I hate spreadsheets
too.
I don't get Excel.
Stefanie Couch (34:07):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (34:07):
So I but I needed a spreadsheet for to
track our dealer profiles overthe years.
Stefanie Couch (34:11):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (34:11):
So I just so it knows it.
My chat GPT is trained andknows who I am and knows what
LBM journal is.
So I asked it to make me aspreadsheet to track our dealer
profiles.
Stefanie Couch (34:21):
Yeah.
Rick Schumacher (34:22):
And it made this elaborate, amazing
spreadsheet.
Stefanie Couch (34:26):
It could probably give you some really
cool data.
If you put all your your umthings, all the statistics you
have and everything.
I would love to see like whatdoes an LBM knowledge hub look
like?
Because you know, we're at GritBlueprint, we're building like
a lot of custom knowledge hubsfor people.
I think if you did that, likeyou guys could do that yourself.
And then you have all this databecause you've got it from all
(34:47):
these years.
I mean, 20 20 plus years ofman, I don't know how you would
get all those records back ofeverything you've published.
Rick Schumacher (34:57):
We have we actually have it all digitally.
Stefanie Couch (34:59):
Wow.
Rick Schumacher (34:59):
And there's and actually the publishing
conference I just came from,there's some big AI companies
that are scraping and andgrabbing the knowledge from
publishers.
And so publishers' websitevisits are going down, they're
they're being they're they'relosing business.
Wow.
So there's a a coalition ofpublishers, magazine publishers
who you can join this coalitionand then they will negotiate for
(35:21):
you with a big AI company sothat they can't just take your
stuff.
Yeah, they take it, but thenthey have to pay it.
Stefanie Couch (35:27):
That is one thing that I think is gonna be a
negative from AI is that itwill be hard to know what's real
and what's not.
Rick Schumacher (35:34):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (35:34):
And also intellectual property is gonna
get really fuzzy really quickly.
Rick Schumacher (35:40):
Right.
Stefanie Couch (35:40):
Um, which you know, I I still think if you
have an article that you wrote,it's gonna be people could go
online and say say somethingfrom your article anyway and act
like it's theirs, but it's justeasier to get thousands of
things at once instead of doingit one at a time, I guess.
But for you guys, I would loveto see that data part.
That would be really cool.
Rick Schumacher (36:01):
Yeah, I'm kind of curious to see it too.
Stefanie Couch (36:02):
Yeah, and I think we could do it with a
knowledge hub.
I know how how we would buildit, but we should talk about
that because there would just beprobably some insane things
that would come out, trends,things that we don't see.
I mean, there are smarterpeople that can look through all
the spreadsheets, but it's notgonna be me, that's for sure.
But the AI can do it and thengive it to us.
Exactly.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
(36:24):
If someone is interested inlearning about working with LBM
Journal, working with you andyour team, you have a lot of
ways that they can collaboratewith you, whether they're a
dealer, a vendor, a partner.
Tell me a little bit more aboutthat.
Rick Schumacher (36:37):
Just go to LBMjournal.com and um and see
what we do.
And if you do something, I meanif you're a dealer and you're
doing cool things, write to me.
Let me know.
Um because we're always lookingfor dealers to profile.
And we're um if you're a ifyou're a manufacturer, if you're
something like that, you havesomething to sell, we have
advertising.
Stefanie Couch (36:55):
So it's like there's digital advertising,
print advertising, you guys gotit all.
But I do love that point aboutthe dealers with the cool
stories, yeah, because thesepeople are often very humble,
right?
And they don't like to telltheir stories because they feel
like it's braggadocious, butit's not.
And I would just say for theindependent spirit, I think
(37:17):
every time that the story, it'slike every time an angel gets
its wings, a bell rings.
Right.
Every time another independentdealer gets spotlighted and they
get to tell their story,someone else reads that and
thinks, I'm gonna go do more,I'm gonna go a little bit
further, I'm gonna stay in thisanother generation because they
want to be that or more in theirown business.
(37:38):
So I think it's veryinspirational.
And I do think we should allshare our stories because
visibility is really whatleadership is all about.
And I think the more you canlean into that, the better it
is.
Rick Schumacher (37:49):
Yeah, and we and we've had some some people
are scared because they've donelike we've when I first started
this, there was a I talked tosome dealers and they said,
Well, we did this once and wegot burned.
And it's like, well, how'd youget burned?
Well, we were misquoted so orsomething.
Yeah, and so we so now what wedo is we just the dealers can
they get to see what the storybeforehand.
(38:09):
So it's so it's a really theirstory.
Yeah, but it they're they'renot surprised when it comes out
in print, it's like they feelgood about it.
Stefanie Couch (38:16):
They kind of executive produce a little bit,
right?
Yeah, I don't I don't blamethem for wanting to see it, you
know.
I I'm the same way, yeah, and Ithink that's that's good that
you do that for sure.
Rick Schumacher (38:25):
What's their story?
Yeah, I mean, we're just thewe're just the messenger.
Stefanie Couch (38:28):
That's that's wonderful.
Yeah, well, thank you for allyou're doing for our industry,
and thank you for telling thestories of the people that I
love the most, the independents.
Rick Schumacher (38:36):
Well, thank you.
Stefanie Couch (38:37):
Well, and also I hope you have a wonderful
market.
It's gonna be a lot going on.
There's a lot going on, and Ithere are 9,000 people here.
So make sure you go and yes, Ibelieve there's supposed to be
9,000 people here this week.
So it is so break your walkingshoes and go check out all of
the cool stuff.
I saw there's gonna be puppiesum tomorrow.
(38:59):
I don't know if you're a doglover.
Rick Schumacher (39:00):
Golden retriever.
We have three dogs, yeah.
Stefanie Couch (39:02):
I hope there's if there's golden retrievers, I
promise you they will be in thispodcast booth, and there won't
be anyone on the earth that cankeep me from bringing them in
here.
Not one person, Rick.
Uh there last year at thespring market, there was
adoptable puppies from theHumane Society, and they're
gonna be here again this time.
Are they?
Yeah, Saturday and Sunday.
I'm gonna bring them in here.
Rick Schumacher (39:22):
Are you gonna go home with one?
Stefanie Couch (39:25):
That sounds like a great idea, Rick.
That sounds like a great idea.
My husband's in the background,very upset that you threw that
out there because it doesn'ttake much.
I'm not actually allowed to goanywhere where free dogs are
available because I'm just tooweak of a person.
So that's just not my strongsuit.
But hopefully, at least we canget one in here into the podcast
(39:46):
booth.
Rick Schumacher (39:46):
There you go.
Stefanie Couch (39:46):
All right.
Well, thank you for joining meon the grit blueprint.
And if you are interested inworking with Rick and LBM
Journal, go to lbmjournal.comand we will see you on the next
episode.
Thank you for listening to theGrit Blueprint Podcast.
If this episode helped youthink a little differently about
how to show up, share it withsomeone in your building world
(40:08):
who needs it.
If you're ready to turnvisibility into growth, then
head to gritblueprint.com tolearn more and book a call to
talk to us about your growthstrategy.
Until next time, stayunmistakable.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.