November 11, 2024 • 24 mins
In this candid conversation, Roslyn McLarty, founder of Within and co-founder of The GIST, shares her journey from startup success to founder burnout and how it shaped her mission to empower entrepreneurs. Alongside her co-founders, Roslyn grew The GIST into a multi-million dollar company, run by a 40-person team—predominantly women and non-binary folks—delivering relatable, inclusive sports coverage to over a million GISTers.
After facing the toll of burnout from her years in the startup world, Roslyn made the bold decision to step back and embark on a healing journey. This experience inspired her to create Within, a personal development platform for purpose-driven founders and startup leaders, blending business success with personal well-being.
In this episode, Roslyn explores how personal development is integral to business success, how to build with integrity to avoid burnout, and the strategies that helped her recover. Tune in for powerful insights on leading and building a successful business while staying true to your values, maintaining well-being, and avoiding burnout along the way.
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Roslyn is an executive coach and the founder of Within, a platform supporting founders at the intersection of entrepreneurship, personal development, and spirituality.
In her bi-weekly newsletter, she shares actionable ideas you can use to build with integrity, live a meaningful life, and achieve unstoppable progress—without burning out.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today I'm speaking with Roslyn McLarty who, after
five years of being in intensestartup building mode at the
gist, experienced founderburnout.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So there definitely were red flags along the way,
but I was so disconnected frommyself that I think I ignored a
lot of them, like I was almostlying to myself, because it
would have been so unfathomablyhard to accept that I was
burning out from this companythat I love.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
In this episode we cover the signs of burnout,
strategies to overcome it andhow we can use these lessons
moving forward to buildcompanies and lead from a
healthier place.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the podcast everyone.
I am excited to introduceRoslyn to the show.
She is a co-founder andstrategic advisor at the Gist, a
(00:49):
woman-run sports media brandreally making sports more
inclusive and accessible forunderserved sports fans, and she
was the former head of ops,finance and growth and grew Gist
, alongside her co-founders,into a multi-million dollar
company run by a 40-person team,today predominantly women.
We have a lot to talk about asshe's sort of hit the five-year
(01:13):
mark.
We're going to dive deep intowhat she's learned as a founder
dealing with burnout,recognizing those signs and,
more importantly, we're excitedto talk a little bit about how
we move forward today, buildingcompanies from a whole new place
, empowering an entrepreneur sothat we don't have to hit the
burnout stride ever again.
Roz, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Talk to us about this journey of the GIST, how it was
founded, some of the challengesand some of the accomplishments
that you and your team hadalong the way.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
The idea for the GIST came from a male-dominated
sports landscape and just seeingthis real need and white space
for more equal sports, coverageof women's and men's sports, of
sports that were coming fromfemale voices and other
underrepresented voices in thelandscape and other
underrepresented voices in thelandscape and something that's
just really for a femaleaudience, an underrepresented
(02:09):
audience, just this kind ofpsychographic of people that I
had felt excluded and started asa side hustle, worked on it for
about a year, just kind of onthe side of our desk while we
were all working differentcorporate jobs and going from
this like weekly Canadian sportsnewsletter expanding into the U
?
S through different like sportsmarkets.
(02:29):
We went through a number ofdifferent incubators and
accelerators and raised fundingalong the way and, um, yeah,
we're able to grow the audienceto a point where brands wanted
to be a part of the story.
It's been a lot like hiring andscaling team, lots of different
challenges and things to figureout along the way, but it's been
, yeah, a really beautifuljourney.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Let's just kind of fast forward it to five years
into the journey as a founder,where you really recognized that
there was something not quiteright.
What was your experience then?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
At that point I was the head of operations, finance
and growth, which was a prettybroad scope and that was okay,
like earlier on, when it wasjust like three co founders and
a couple of people.
But when it was themultimillion dollar company and
had so many people, it just wasfeeling like there was just so
much to do.
(03:21):
And I'm the kind of person that, like, really puts a lot on
myself Definitely aperfectionist, definitely a
people pleaser.
I was really looking to provemy own value in the ways that I
was contributing and the waysthat I was getting external
validation for the ways that Iwas contributing.
I just kind of hit a point.
It was in June 2023, where Iwoke up and I felt like
(03:46):
something is really not okay,just feeling really disconnected
from myself, almost like adullness and apathy towards
things that, like, had used tobring me a lot of joy and
excitement around building mycompany.
I was feeling really heightenedanxiety every day, like things
(04:06):
that used to bring me like somestress, like public speaking,
for instance, were just likealmost feeling unbearable.
Just this really heightenedemotional reactivity, just this
feeling of like tasks that wouldhave been doable like a year
prior just felt like sooverwhelmingly difficult.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
In hindsight, as you look back.
Was it a build process?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Were there red flags along the way, or was it just
you know, one day, so theredefinitely were red flags along
the way, but I was sodisconnected from myself that I
think I ignored a lot of them,like I was almost lying to
myself, because it would havebeen so unfathomably hard to
accept that I was burning outfrom this company that I loved
and I had put so much time andinvested and sacrificed so much
(04:57):
that like I needed to continueto see it through to the end, to
see it through to being asuccess, whatever that meant, to
make it worth everything.
My own identity was so tied tobeing a co-founder and an
entrepreneur and a leader atthis company that the idea of
burning out from it was almosttoo hard to accept.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
When did you go from that thought to no?
I really need to confront thisLike what was the switch for you
?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, I just like woke up one morning and I just
like had this knowing of likesomething is really not right,
and I think it took all themonths of ignoring the signs to
like just really feel it on avery deep level and almost like
kind of had a mental breakdown,was just like crying on the
couch, being being like I don'tknow what's going on from there,
like I just like told myco-founders what I was
(05:53):
experiencing and going throughand they were really
compassionate, of course, andlike felt so badly that I was
feeling this way.
But I don't think any of usreally comprehended the severity
of burnout that I was at andlike didn't understand that like
thereended the severity ofburnout that I was at, and like
didn't understand that likethere are certain levels of
burnout that take like months oreven years to recover from.
And so, you know, we were alljust like okay, like I guess
(06:15):
I'll take, you know, a couplelong weekends, like a few days
off, and like I'll just getthrough the next couple of
months till I'm going on thistwo week vacation and I'll come
back and everything will be fine.
And so I worked for anotherlike month and a half of just
you know, trying to likereprioritize a little bit, but
also recognize that like, okay,maybe I need some more support.
(06:36):
So it's also hiring on top ofdoing all of my like critical
tasks.
And got to the vacation.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, one on vacation , um, came back and was like
obviously not cured well, andtoday you speak about this right
and you are really kind of on amission to educate those who
are suffering from this, uh, andsupport those.
So let's go through like therecovery and learning, like what
have been the major elementsthat you've learned through your
(07:04):
journey and how have yousupported yourself through your
recovery?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
it's been a long and deep and intense and like still
ongoing journey, um, and onethat I'm so grateful for.
That's been one of the bestthings that's come out of
burning out and, by the way,like I eventually decided that
we, we decided that I would needto go on leave.
That's kind of where therecovery began.
(07:34):
The very beginning days werejust about like healing, kind of
like my body and my nervoussystem and my exhaustion, so
like literally like sitting onthe couch, which was like such a
foreign thing to me as someonethat had just been going and
going lots of like walks innature, some like yin and
restorative yoga, just likethese things to like bring my
body back to like a state ofpeace, because when you're burnt
(07:56):
out, like you're just in thislike chronic dysregulated
nervous system state.
And then, when my body washealthy enough, I think I felt
like I was really ready to facemyself and like the ways that I
had contributed to my ownburnout, and so I sought out a
burnout coach to understand likewhy am I such a perfectionist?
(08:19):
Like why is it so important forme to feel like I need to be
perfect in everything I do frommy work and like as an operator
and my individual contributionand also as a manager and as a
leader and trying to keepeverybody happy with me and
never have anyone bedisappointed in me, and like
really feeling like I had toprove my value through that.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Which I have to say just a couple things to
underscore.
First of all, understanding howwe contribute to our own
burnout through our own patterns.
This is, this, is that was justlike a game changing, like
statement that we can allempower ourselves with, because
a lot of times people will thinkit's I'm overworked, I'm, you
know, all these things coming atme with what you said is a
(09:06):
really empowering thought.
And then it makes no wonder,and I a lot of those patterns
that you talked about.
I hey, I'm putting my hand uptoo.
I can relate to them.
As your company goes from fourpeople to 40 people and
customers grow and the audiencegrows.
These patterns have no place tolive anymore because you just
you cannot make that many peoplehappy.
(09:27):
Like you can't make that manypeople happy, like you can't at
a certain point, like you haveto fundamentally change because
you can't operate at that level.
How long did it kind of takeyou to really uncover those
things?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
yeah, I would say it's, it's ongoing and I think,
like through every healingmodality, I find that they all
kind of combine in differentways and so, like one of the big
practices for me, coming out ofburnout too, was like a self
compassion practice, because onthe other side of taking this
accountability for my ownburnout, there also was like a
(10:00):
lot of shame of like oh, Iwasn't good enough, I was
incapable, I failed, I leteverybody down.
Shame is not a motivatingemotion for healing or improving
, and so I developed this likepretty, um, consistent
self-compassion practice thatalso involved kind of speaking
to my inner child in a lot ofways, um, a couple of the things
(10:24):
that I did that that reallyhelped.
One of them was just writingdown three things that I did
well like the day before andwhat it's evidence of.
It's kind of like similar to agrateful gratefulness journal of
just like reminding yourself ofthe good things in your life,
but actually like applying it toyourself and saying like this
is what it means about me and mycharacter.
(10:45):
And then the other one, whichtook a little bit of time to
like get comfortable with, wasactually just writing a love
note to myself every day, justlearning to give myself the
validation that I felt like Ineeded to be okay, you know,
from other people, but just, youknow, learning to tell her like
what she needed to hear earlieron and and even today, was like
(11:08):
extremely powerful and likeoften very like emotional for me
thank you for yourvulnerability in sharing these
exercises.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
My hope is that people can grab real tools as
they listen.
How has it been for you now?
So you've been in this process,would you say.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
This is eight months now this journey you've been in
it's going well and they're likethere have been like a lot of
steps that have gotten me towhere I am now.
I would say like one of kind ofthe catalysts for like where I
find myself now is was just likethe intense grief of like
eventually coming to thedecision of like moving on from
(11:45):
the company and having to grievethat loss of like, you know,
that future that I would havehad with the company and my
relationship with my co-foundersand being active in building
the business with them and thislike identity, and that was like
really hard.
But it was out of that place oflike really intense grief where
(12:07):
I think, like a lot of the timewe creative ideas of like how
things could manifest, which wasreally hopeful After like just
(12:34):
feeling like my world had gottencompletely rocked.
Part of, I think, why I burntout is because a lot of the work
that I was doing I actuallylike when I get honest with
myself like didn't enjoy A lotof times when you grow in your
leadership roles, like you'reput into, you might start in a
creative capacity.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
You might start, you know, dealing more with, like
customers and sales, eventuallykind of move into a track of
analytics and you know, lookingat things through operations and
finance and budgets and sheets,and there's a pride in thinking
you can do that.
But sometimes it's like, but amI in the right role?
And so this intuitive, creativeside, like how have you been
(13:19):
tending to this?
Because I think sometimes theanalytical minds want to know.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, I think just starting to get curious about
like what are the things that Ido that like make me lose track
of time, or what are the thingsthat I used to love to do as a
kid, like what are the thingsthat like actually I look
forward to and like give meenergy?
And so, for me, like some of thethings that came up when I was
(13:45):
asking those questions weregraphic design, which is very
opposite from my role, but Ialways really enjoyed like the
branding process and likejumping into Canva and Figma to
like work on some growthmarketing assets or like
whatever.
And so I was like I'm justgoing to take a graphic design
course and like and I've beenabsolutely loving it.
(14:07):
It's been, it's brought me somuch joy.
Another one was writing, whichis like kind of ironic because I
was in this like contentcompany, just not on the content
side, but that has, I thinkit's really helped me find my
(14:27):
voice and it's been somethingI've always enjoyed too, like
even when I was just likewriting press releases or
investor reports, and it's likeso much more fun to write about
stuff that's meaningful to meand as a way to find community
and like people like yourselfand like connect with people
that are like interested in thesame things.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What advice would you give someone to be able to
introduce those techniques intotheir everyday living today,
even if they know?
No, like I.
I need time to explore thatright now.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
You can start in like really small, like incremental
steps and they probably willbuild if, um, if you are loving
them, like, they'll build in thedirection that you want them to
.
I think also like somethingthat was helpful for me was
finding expanders in those areastoo, and just like seeing
what's possible, especially forpeople like that like had been
(15:21):
where you are now, like maybeyou're in this career that
you're not loving or you're inthis position that you're not
loving, but just like seeingsomeone else who's like moved
out of what you're doing intosomething that like you want to
be doing or has like found a wayto make it work that the
culture of hustle grind, burnoutwe're building from a new place
(15:57):
.
I think that it's it's possibleand that people deserve actually
to do work that they love andthat lights them up and that, um
, that's actually the way thatyou're going to be contributing
to the world in like the biggestway.
I think, like in Western society, we think like we have to, you
know, be like like me, be thefinance and ops person.
(16:18):
That's how we're valuable and weneed to hustle and work hard
and, you know, to be successful,you need to be like working
hard on stuff that you don'tlike, and I think like we kind
of need to change that idea andstart to believe that it is
possible for us to be like notonly possible, but like really
important for us to be workingon the things that light us up
(16:40):
and give us energy.
The entrepreneurial journey isvery intertwined with the
spiritual journey and that thestuff that you need to work on
as a human, like the inner workthat you need to do on yourself,
like facing your limitingbeliefs, healing unhealed trauma
, is all reflected in thechallenges that are coming up in
your business, and so running abusiness and the things, the
(17:02):
blocks that are coming up, thechallenges, are all just
opportunities for you to healand starting to like see those
as intertwined and starting toincorporate this like personal
growth and healing into like aparallel of building a company,
I think will I don't know allowpeople to unlock business
(17:24):
success from a different placethan this like grind, hard work
mentality, like it can be from amore intuitive place.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
As people have been coming forward and sharing their
stories with you.
Are you seeing any shifts inthe culture and trends on kind
of this new approach Like?
What are you observing?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I'm seeing a lot more of it online, especially as
it's something that I've, likebeen more interested in, and I'm
coming across more people thatare wanting to build businesses
and, like build lives in thisway.
That's more like conscious andintentional and, um, you know,
recognizing the connectionbetween spirituality and
personal growth and businesses,and I think it's like it's a
(18:03):
it's becoming much.
It's more and more possible todo that.
As you know, we're working moreremotely and there's a lot more
flexibility and people seepaths that are different than
just like you climb thecorporate ladder at this one
place for your whole career, andyou know, people are starting
to see that there can bedifferent expressions and
different ways of working thatyou know, express the different
(18:27):
parts of what they have to offer, and so that's really exciting
to see, because I think that'sjust going to ultimately work
better for people and allow themto have the impact that they
want to be having in the worldthat they maybe wouldn't
necessarily have been able to ifthey were just painted into
this like climbing the corporateladder box.
So, when you think about yournext chapter as an entrepreneur
(18:50):
and vision, so when you thinkabout your next chapter as an
entrepreneur and vision, youknow what.
What advice are you givingyourself for how you're going to
continue to evolve and bringyour gifts out into the world?
Building now does combine allthe things that I love and
(19:10):
learning to like listen to mybody and my intuition a lot more
, since that was something thatwas completely cut off before.
But yeah, like using kind of myinner wisdom to guide me on
like big things and also justlike what am I working on today?
Like what do I actually feellike we're going today?
Things like that.
I think continuing to bring moreum self-compassion is like a
(19:35):
big one for me and continuing tokind of level up my worth and
being guided by the purpose,instead of like this feeling of
having to prove myself, becausethe prove myself forcing energy
just doesn't, doesn't work withlike what I'm trying to bring
into the world now.
And I think just like findingmy community, too is one that
I'm like really trying to figureout this year.
(19:56):
Like finding otherentrepreneurs that are building
in this new paradigm, becauseyou really do absorb like the
energy of the, the people thatyou surround yourself with.
So if you're around people thatare like cussing and grasping
and like forcing.
You can like fall into that too, especially in a city like New
(20:16):
York, which is where I am.
So I think finding people thatare also, you know, on more of
like a spiritual entrepreneurialpath will serve me going
forward.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
One kind of final theme that I wanted to touch on
before we wrap how wouldsomebody have recognized the
signs and what can people do tosupport each other?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
If you are starting to feel a dullness, if you are
feeling a heightened anxiety, ifyou're feeling any form of
chronic like pain or afflictionslike for me, I had a chronic
neck pain and shoulder pain umthat you know all the physio and
chiropractor and stuff likedidn't um help.
(20:56):
It was like a psycho,psychosomatic um affliction, um.
If you are realizing you'rereaching for your coping
mechanisms, if you are feelingany of those signs like, I would
say, acknowledge them, like gethonest with yourself, I think,
(21:17):
asking for support, whetherthat's like business partners or
friends, or finding like acoach, if you have the means, or
a therapist, so that you don'tfeel like you're so alone and
you can start to foster a bit ofa sense of of safety um around
you in you know, making thechanges that you're gonna need
to make.
(21:37):
I think like, if you're headedfor burnout or already burnt out
, like you do need to get honestwith yourself about some of the
changes um that you're gonnaneed to make, both both external
and internal.
So like external changes needto make both both external and
internal.
So like external changes couldlook like reprioritizing, like
just getting really honest about, like what parts of the
business you need to be workingon seeing, like, where you can
(22:01):
eliminate, delegate, minimizetasks or make them more fun.
Um, like really ruthlessly, um.
And then, on the internal side,like starting to ask yourself,
like how am I contributing to myown burnout?
And that's something where it'shelpful to get support too,
because sometimes, like it's allit's like in your subconscious
right You're not surenecessarily that, like your
(22:23):
perfectionism or your peopleplacing is like really
contributing to your own burnout, but that can be really
supportive.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
If I were your colleague back then at the time,
like how would I have known?
Or could I have known?
Like what could I have done inthose, in those days, to have
supported you?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Sometimes it can be like hard to detect, especially
like someone who's burnt out isusually like a bit of a people
pleaser.
So you really do need to likereally observe and check in and
I would recommend like, ifyou're, if you're running a
company as like co-founders oranything like that, having
regular check-ins where you canlike really get honest, um with
(23:01):
each other about how things aregoing.
That can help and be kind of aninvitation to be honest about
those things.
But yeah, I think if you seesomeone is kind of like losing
their their spark, um, startingto even like struggle with with
their performance, even like Idon't assume the worst that like
(23:23):
you know they don't care orthey're lazy, like they could
really be struggling from amental health standpoint, and so
giving them the benefit of thedoubt, um, and yeah, like I
would say really encouragingthem to find support, either a
coach, a therapist, a burnoutcourse, like free burnout
(23:43):
resources that are online, whereyou kind of learn more and get
take it like more seriously,because it is like a very
serious thing.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I know you went through such a hard time, but
what a what a gift you'reserving all of us through your
journey.
Roslyn, thank you for being sohonest and vulnerable and real
on today's show yeah, thank youso much for having me for the
opportunity thank you forjoining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
(24:13):
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
Today I'm speaking with Roslyn McLarty who, after
five years of being in intensestartup building mode at the
gist, experienced founderburnout.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So there definitely were red flags along the way,
but I was so disconnected frommyself that I think I ignored a
lot of them, like I was almostlying to myself, because it
would have been so unfathomablyhard to accept that I was
burning out from this companythat I love.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
In this episode we cover the signs of burnout,
strategies to overcome it andhow we can use these lessons
moving forward to buildcompanies and lead from a
healthier place.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the podcast everyone.
I am excited to introduceRoslyn to the show.
She is a co-founder andstrategic advisor at the Gist, a
(00:49):
woman-run sports media brandreally making sports more
inclusive and accessible forunderserved sports fans, and she
was the former head of ops,finance and growth and grew Gist
, alongside her co-founders,into a multi-million dollar
company run by a 40-person team,today predominantly women.
We have a lot to talk about asshe's sort of hit the five-year
(01:13):
mark.
We're going to dive deep intowhat she's learned as a founder
dealing with burnout,recognizing those signs and,
more importantly, we're excitedto talk a little bit about how
we move forward today, buildingcompanies from a whole new place
, empowering an entrepreneur sothat we don't have to hit the
burnout stride ever again.
Roz, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Talk to us about this journey of the GIST, how it was
founded, some of the challengesand some of the accomplishments
that you and your team hadalong the way.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
The idea for the GIST came from a male-dominated
sports landscape and just seeingthis real need and white space
for more equal sports, coverageof women's and men's sports, of
sports that were coming fromfemale voices and other
underrepresented voices in thelandscape and other
underrepresented voices in thelandscape and something that's
just really for a femaleaudience, an underrepresented
(02:09):
audience, just this kind ofpsychographic of people that I
had felt excluded and started asa side hustle, worked on it for
about a year, just kind of onthe side of our desk while we
were all working differentcorporate jobs and going from
this like weekly Canadian sportsnewsletter expanding into the U
?
S through different like sportsmarkets.
(02:29):
We went through a number ofdifferent incubators and
accelerators and raised fundingalong the way and, um, yeah,
we're able to grow the audienceto a point where brands wanted
to be a part of the story.
It's been a lot like hiring andscaling team, lots of different
challenges and things to figureout along the way, but it's been
, yeah, a really beautifuljourney.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Let's just kind of fast forward it to five years
into the journey as a founder,where you really recognized that
there was something not quiteright.
What was your experience then?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
At that point I was the head of operations, finance
and growth, which was a prettybroad scope and that was okay,
like earlier on, when it wasjust like three co founders and
a couple of people.
But when it was themultimillion dollar company and
had so many people, it just wasfeeling like there was just so
much to do.
(03:21):
And I'm the kind of person that, like, really puts a lot on
myself Definitely aperfectionist, definitely a
people pleaser.
I was really looking to provemy own value in the ways that I
was contributing and the waysthat I was getting external
validation for the ways that Iwas contributing.
I just kind of hit a point.
It was in June 2023, where Iwoke up and I felt like
(03:46):
something is really not okay,just feeling really disconnected
from myself, almost like adullness and apathy towards
things that, like, had used tobring me a lot of joy and
excitement around building mycompany.
I was feeling really heightenedanxiety every day, like things
(04:06):
that used to bring me like somestress, like public speaking,
for instance, were just likealmost feeling unbearable.
Just this really heightenedemotional reactivity, just this
feeling of like tasks that wouldhave been doable like a year
prior just felt like sooverwhelmingly difficult.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
In hindsight, as you look back.
Was it a build process?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Were there red flags along the way, or was it just
you know, one day, so theredefinitely were red flags along
the way, but I was sodisconnected from myself that I
think I ignored a lot of them,like I was almost lying to
myself, because it would havebeen so unfathomably hard to
accept that I was burning outfrom this company that I loved
and I had put so much time andinvested and sacrificed so much
(04:57):
that like I needed to continueto see it through to the end, to
see it through to being asuccess, whatever that meant, to
make it worth everything.
My own identity was so tied tobeing a co-founder and an
entrepreneur and a leader atthis company that the idea of
burning out from it was almosttoo hard to accept.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
When did you go from that thought to no?
I really need to confront thisLike what was the switch for you
?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, I just like woke up one morning and I just
like had this knowing of likesomething is really not right,
and I think it took all themonths of ignoring the signs to
like just really feel it on avery deep level and almost like
kind of had a mental breakdown,was just like crying on the
couch, being being like I don'tknow what's going on from there,
like I just like told myco-founders what I was
(05:53):
experiencing and going throughand they were really
compassionate, of course, andlike felt so badly that I was
feeling this way.
But I don't think any of usreally comprehended the severity
of burnout that I was at andlike didn't understand that like
thereended the severity ofburnout that I was at, and like
didn't understand that likethere are certain levels of
burnout that take like months oreven years to recover from.
And so, you know, we were alljust like okay, like I guess
(06:15):
I'll take, you know, a couplelong weekends, like a few days
off, and like I'll just getthrough the next couple of
months till I'm going on thistwo week vacation and I'll come
back and everything will be fine.
And so I worked for anotherlike month and a half of just
you know, trying to likereprioritize a little bit, but
also recognize that like, okay,maybe I need some more support.
(06:36):
So it's also hiring on top ofdoing all of my like critical
tasks.
And got to the vacation.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, one on vacation , um, came back and was like
obviously not cured well, andtoday you speak about this right
and you are really kind of on amission to educate those who
are suffering from this, uh, andsupport those.
So let's go through like therecovery and learning, like what
have been the major elementsthat you've learned through your
(07:04):
journey and how have yousupported yourself through your
recovery?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
it's been a long and deep and intense and like still
ongoing journey, um, and onethat I'm so grateful for.
That's been one of the bestthings that's come out of
burning out and, by the way,like I eventually decided that
we, we decided that I would needto go on leave.
That's kind of where therecovery began.
(07:34):
The very beginning days werejust about like healing, kind of
like my body and my nervoussystem and my exhaustion, so
like literally like sitting onthe couch, which was like such a
foreign thing to me as someonethat had just been going and
going lots of like walks innature, some like yin and
restorative yoga, just likethese things to like bring my
body back to like a state ofpeace, because when you're burnt
(07:56):
out, like you're just in thislike chronic dysregulated
nervous system state.
And then, when my body washealthy enough, I think I felt
like I was really ready to facemyself and like the ways that I
had contributed to my ownburnout, and so I sought out a
burnout coach to understand likewhy am I such a perfectionist?
(08:19):
Like why is it so important forme to feel like I need to be
perfect in everything I do frommy work and like as an operator
and my individual contributionand also as a manager and as a
leader and trying to keepeverybody happy with me and
never have anyone bedisappointed in me, and like
really feeling like I had toprove my value through that.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Which I have to say just a couple things to
underscore.
First of all, understanding howwe contribute to our own
burnout through our own patterns.
This is, this, is that was justlike a game changing, like
statement that we can allempower ourselves with, because
a lot of times people will thinkit's I'm overworked, I'm, you
know, all these things coming atme with what you said is a
(09:06):
really empowering thought.
And then it makes no wonder,and I a lot of those patterns
that you talked about.
I hey, I'm putting my hand uptoo.
I can relate to them.
As your company goes from fourpeople to 40 people and
customers grow and the audiencegrows.
These patterns have no place tolive anymore because you just
you cannot make that many peoplehappy.
(09:27):
Like you can't make that manypeople happy, like you can't at
a certain point, like you haveto fundamentally change because
you can't operate at that level.
How long did it kind of takeyou to really uncover those
things?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
yeah, I would say it's, it's ongoing and I think,
like through every healingmodality, I find that they all
kind of combine in differentways and so, like one of the big
practices for me, coming out ofburnout too, was like a self
compassion practice, because onthe other side of taking this
accountability for my ownburnout, there also was like a
(10:00):
lot of shame of like oh, Iwasn't good enough, I was
incapable, I failed, I leteverybody down.
Shame is not a motivatingemotion for healing or improving
, and so I developed this likepretty, um, consistent
self-compassion practice thatalso involved kind of speaking
to my inner child in a lot ofways, um, a couple of the things
(10:24):
that I did that that reallyhelped.
One of them was just writingdown three things that I did
well like the day before andwhat it's evidence of.
It's kind of like similar to agrateful gratefulness journal of
just like reminding yourself ofthe good things in your life,
but actually like applying it toyourself and saying like this
is what it means about me and mycharacter.
(10:45):
And then the other one, whichtook a little bit of time to
like get comfortable with, wasactually just writing a love
note to myself every day, justlearning to give myself the
validation that I felt like Ineeded to be okay, you know,
from other people, but just, youknow, learning to tell her like
what she needed to hear earlieron and and even today, was like
(11:08):
extremely powerful and likeoften very like emotional for me
thank you for yourvulnerability in sharing these
exercises.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
My hope is that people can grab real tools as
they listen.
How has it been for you now?
So you've been in this process,would you say.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
This is eight months now this journey you've been in
it's going well and they're likethere have been like a lot of
steps that have gotten me towhere I am now.
I would say like one of kind ofthe catalysts for like where I
find myself now is was just likethe intense grief of like
eventually coming to thedecision of like moving on from
(11:45):
the company and having to grievethat loss of like, you know,
that future that I would havehad with the company and my
relationship with my co-foundersand being active in building
the business with them and thislike identity, and that was like
really hard.
But it was out of that place oflike really intense grief where
(12:07):
I think, like a lot of the timewe creative ideas of like how
things could manifest, which wasreally hopeful After like just
(12:34):
feeling like my world had gottencompletely rocked.
Part of, I think, why I burntout is because a lot of the work
that I was doing I actuallylike when I get honest with
myself like didn't enjoy A lotof times when you grow in your
leadership roles, like you'reput into, you might start in a
creative capacity.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
You might start, you know, dealing more with, like
customers and sales, eventuallykind of move into a track of
analytics and you know, lookingat things through operations and
finance and budgets and sheets,and there's a pride in thinking
you can do that.
But sometimes it's like, but amI in the right role?
And so this intuitive, creativeside, like how have you been
(13:19):
tending to this?
Because I think sometimes theanalytical minds want to know.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, I think just starting to get curious about
like what are the things that Ido that like make me lose track
of time, or what are the thingsthat I used to love to do as a
kid, like what are the thingsthat like actually I look
forward to and like give meenergy?
And so, for me, like some of thethings that came up when I was
(13:45):
asking those questions weregraphic design, which is very
opposite from my role, but Ialways really enjoyed like the
branding process and likejumping into Canva and Figma to
like work on some growthmarketing assets or like
whatever.
And so I was like I'm justgoing to take a graphic design
course and like and I've beenabsolutely loving it.
(14:07):
It's been, it's brought me somuch joy.
Another one was writing, whichis like kind of ironic because I
was in this like contentcompany, just not on the content
side, but that has, I thinkit's really helped me find my
(14:27):
voice and it's been somethingI've always enjoyed too, like
even when I was just likewriting press releases or
investor reports, and it's likeso much more fun to write about
stuff that's meaningful to meand as a way to find community
and like people like yourselfand like connect with people
that are like interested in thesame things.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What advice would you give someone to be able to
introduce those techniques intotheir everyday living today,
even if they know?
No, like I.
I need time to explore thatright now.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
You can start in like really small, like incremental
steps and they probably willbuild if, um, if you are loving
them, like, they'll build in thedirection that you want them to
.
I think also like somethingthat was helpful for me was
finding expanders in those areastoo, and just like seeing
what's possible, especially forpeople like that like had been
(15:21):
where you are now, like maybeyou're in this career that
you're not loving or you're inthis position that you're not
loving, but just like seeingsomeone else who's like moved
out of what you're doing intosomething that like you want to
be doing or has like found a wayto make it work that the
culture of hustle grind, burnoutwe're building from a new place
(15:57):
.
I think that it's it's possibleand that people deserve actually
to do work that they love andthat lights them up and that, um
, that's actually the way thatyou're going to be contributing
to the world in like the biggestway.
I think, like in Western society, we think like we have to, you
know, be like like me, be thefinance and ops person.
(16:18):
That's how we're valuable and weneed to hustle and work hard
and, you know, to be successful,you need to be like working
hard on stuff that you don'tlike, and I think like we kind
of need to change that idea andstart to believe that it is
possible for us to be like notonly possible, but like really
important for us to be workingon the things that light us up
(16:40):
and give us energy.
The entrepreneurial journey isvery intertwined with the
spiritual journey and that thestuff that you need to work on
as a human, like the inner workthat you need to do on yourself,
like facing your limitingbeliefs, healing unhealed trauma
, is all reflected in thechallenges that are coming up in
your business, and so running abusiness and the things, the
(17:02):
blocks that are coming up, thechallenges, are all just
opportunities for you to healand starting to like see those
as intertwined and starting toincorporate this like personal
growth and healing into like aparallel of building a company,
I think will I don't know allowpeople to unlock business
(17:24):
success from a different placethan this like grind, hard work
mentality, like it can be from amore intuitive place.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
As people have been coming forward and sharing their
stories with you.
Are you seeing any shifts inthe culture and trends on kind
of this new approach Like?
What are you observing?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I'm seeing a lot more of it online, especially as
it's something that I've, likebeen more interested in, and I'm
coming across more people thatare wanting to build businesses
and, like build lives in thisway.
That's more like conscious andintentional and, um, you know,
recognizing the connectionbetween spirituality and
personal growth and businesses,and I think it's like it's a
(18:03):
it's becoming much.
It's more and more possible todo that.
As you know, we're working moreremotely and there's a lot more
flexibility and people seepaths that are different than
just like you climb thecorporate ladder at this one
place for your whole career, andyou know, people are starting
to see that there can bedifferent expressions and
different ways of working thatyou know, express the different
(18:27):
parts of what they have to offer, and so that's really exciting
to see, because I think that'sjust going to ultimately work
better for people and allow themto have the impact that they
want to be having in the worldthat they maybe wouldn't
necessarily have been able to ifthey were just painted into
this like climbing the corporateladder box.
So, when you think about yournext chapter as an entrepreneur
(18:50):
and vision, so when you thinkabout your next chapter as an
entrepreneur and vision, youknow what.
What advice are you givingyourself for how you're going to
continue to evolve and bringyour gifts out into the world?
Building now does combine allthe things that I love and
(19:10):
learning to like listen to mybody and my intuition a lot more
, since that was something thatwas completely cut off before.
But yeah, like using kind of myinner wisdom to guide me on
like big things and also justlike what am I working on today?
Like what do I actually feellike we're going today?
Things like that.
I think continuing to bring moreum self-compassion is like a
(19:35):
big one for me and continuing tokind of level up my worth and
being guided by the purpose,instead of like this feeling of
having to prove myself, becausethe prove myself forcing energy
just doesn't, doesn't work withlike what I'm trying to bring
into the world now.
And I think just like findingmy community, too is one that
I'm like really trying to figureout this year.
(19:56):
Like finding otherentrepreneurs that are building
in this new paradigm, becauseyou really do absorb like the
energy of the, the people thatyou surround yourself with.
So if you're around people thatare like cussing and grasping
and like forcing.
You can like fall into that too, especially in a city like New
(20:16):
York, which is where I am.
So I think finding people thatare also, you know, on more of
like a spiritual entrepreneurialpath will serve me going
forward.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
One kind of final theme that I wanted to touch on
before we wrap how wouldsomebody have recognized the
signs and what can people do tosupport each other?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
If you are starting to feel a dullness, if you are
feeling a heightened anxiety, ifyou're feeling any form of
chronic like pain or afflictionslike for me, I had a chronic
neck pain and shoulder pain umthat you know all the physio and
chiropractor and stuff likedidn't um help.
(20:56):
It was like a psycho,psychosomatic um affliction, um.
If you are realizing you'rereaching for your coping
mechanisms, if you are feelingany of those signs like, I would
say, acknowledge them, like gethonest with yourself, I think,
(21:17):
asking for support, whetherthat's like business partners or
friends, or finding like acoach, if you have the means, or
a therapist, so that you don'tfeel like you're so alone and
you can start to foster a bit ofa sense of of safety um around
you in you know, making thechanges that you're gonna need
to make.
(21:37):
I think like, if you're headedfor burnout or already burnt out
, like you do need to get honestwith yourself about some of the
changes um that you're gonnaneed to make, both both external
and internal.
So like external changes needto make both both external and
internal.
So like external changes couldlook like reprioritizing, like
just getting really honest about, like what parts of the
business you need to be workingon seeing, like, where you can
(22:01):
eliminate, delegate, minimizetasks or make them more fun.
Um, like really ruthlessly, um.
And then, on the internal side,like starting to ask yourself,
like how am I contributing to myown burnout?
And that's something where it'shelpful to get support too,
because sometimes, like it's allit's like in your subconscious
right You're not surenecessarily that, like your
(22:23):
perfectionism or your peopleplacing is like really
contributing to your own burnout, but that can be really
supportive.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
If I were your colleague back then at the time,
like how would I have known?
Or could I have known?
Like what could I have done inthose, in those days, to have
supported you?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Sometimes it can be like hard to detect, especially
like someone who's burnt out isusually like a bit of a people
pleaser.
So you really do need to likereally observe and check in and
I would recommend like, ifyou're, if you're running a
company as like co-founders oranything like that, having
regular check-ins where you canlike really get honest, um with
(23:01):
each other about how things aregoing.
That can help and be kind of aninvitation to be honest about
those things.
But yeah, I think if you seesomeone is kind of like losing
their their spark, um, startingto even like struggle with with
their performance, even like Idon't assume the worst that like
(23:23):
you know they don't care orthey're lazy, like they could
really be struggling from amental health standpoint, and so
giving them the benefit of thedoubt, um, and yeah, like I
would say really encouragingthem to find support, either a
coach, a therapist, a burnoutcourse, like free burnout
(23:43):
resources that are online, whereyou kind of learn more and get
take it like more seriously,because it is like a very
serious thing.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I know you went through such a hard time, but
what a what a gift you'reserving all of us through your
journey.
Roslyn, thank you for being sohonest and vulnerable and real
on today's show yeah, thank youso much for having me for the
opportunity thank you forjoining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
(24:13):
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
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