April 22, 2024 • 21 mins
Join us on this enlightening episode as we dive deep with Jessica Joins, founder of the Women's Purpose Community and author of "Dare to Believe: 12 Lessons for Living your Soul Purpose." Jessica shares her transformative journey from a 20-year career in advertising to aligning with her true purpose.
We explore the power of reconnecting with your intuition, redefining success on your own terms, and finding genuine fulfillment in life. Whether you're facing the pressure of corporate life or seeking to reinvent from within, Jessica offers actionable insights to guide you towards courageous change.
Discover how to distinguish between fear-based and inspired actions, tune into your heart's voice, and navigate the challenges of balancing career and personal life.
If you're ready to challenge the status quo, listen in to uncover the tools and mindset shifts that can lead you towards a life where you get paid to be yourself.
Learn more about Jessica Joines
Website: https://www.jessicajoines.com/
For us for actionable tools & tips for your leadership journey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen (00:01):
Today we're chatting with Jessica Joins, founder of the
Women's Purpose Community andauthor of Dare to Believe 12
Lessons for Living your SoulPurpose.
Jessica (00:10):
We are not meant to trudge through life.
We are not meant to like havelukewarm complacency about what
we're dedicating our whole lifeto.
If you're willing to be honestwith yourself because for me,
for a long time I was like, well, I'm happy.
Sometimes I sort of like it andlike that was good enough.
Jen (00:28):
In this episode, we'll offer actionable insights to
help you reconnect with yourintuition, redefine success on
your own terms and findfulfillment in your life.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the podcast everyone.
Jessica, thank you so much forbeing here with us today.
I have been deep in your bookfor the better part of a week
(00:51):
and all of the concepts.
So your book is Dare to Believe12 Lessons for Living your Soul
.
Purpose.
And for me this week, as I'vebeen thinking about some new
things on the horizon.
For myself, I find that thisbook was extremely helpful as an
inner compass on a lot ofdecision-making that I had to
(01:13):
make for myself, so I'm excitedto dive into some of the
principles.
Jessica (01:16):
Well, I'm so glad to be with you.
I've been so excited for this.
You're doing such beautiful,incredible work, so it's really
my honor to be with you today.
Jen (01:26):
Oh well, our treat as well, and I felt it important to
start with your backstory.
Would you mind just beginningto share a little bit of the
major pivot points and lessonslearned along that journey for
yourself?
Jessica (01:41):
Yeah, well, the headline is I spent nearly 20
years in a career I didn't loveand most days didn't even like,
so like, if you can relate tothat on any spectrum, you're
listening to the right show.
When I look back upon my story,like so many of us, I
approached the decision of whatyou're going to do with your
(02:02):
whole life.
You know at least eight, 10hours a day, a sacred decision
with the energy of survival andscarcity consciousness.
So I'm Gen X.
You know that's the generationI am.
I do see people talking aboutpurpose in younger generations,
which I think is incredible.
It was not a conversation when Iwas making the important
(02:24):
decision of what I was going tostudy, what I was going to do
with my life.
You would hear like do what youlove, but nobody really like
did it.
So when I started out, it wasreally what can I do that I can
be good at and make money?
And, like you know, it had tobe something I enjoyed or liked.
But it wasn't like what do Ideeply love, what am I
(02:47):
passionate about?
So it was skill-based, andskill-based is very much
scarcity, like it's acompetition out there.
I got to find something I'mgood at to earn.
And so where that led me is, youknow, roughly 20 years in the
advertising and field ofmarketing.
I did really well, I was reallysuccessful.
I started working attraditional ad agencies, moved
(03:10):
into media and at the end of mycareer I was the global CMO of a
technology company, and apretty big one.
So that's where I ended and Ialways felt something was wrong
from the very beginning, when Iwould go to work every day and
kind of dread it, but I felttrapped in it and didn't know
what else to do.
(03:30):
But I didn't know what to doabout it and that's what took me
a long time to figure out.
Jen (03:37):
What did you do for yourself in those moments where
you look back and you go yeah,thank God, I did.
That was the catalyst towardswhere I am right now.
Jessica (03:47):
What worked for me and the way I approached it.
I think there's some incrediblelearnings of it, but what I
want to invite everyone is notget attached to the specifics of
the how and my exact story, butthe themes behind it and how I
approach things.
And so what I did for meeventually is basically like my
heart, you know, you, you hearoften like this, you know, like
(04:11):
heart and head, like theconflict and the battle there.
So my heart had been screamingat me for a long time but I just
wasn't willing to listen to itbecause the voice of fear in my
mind was so loud.
And the stories of voice offear in my mind told me was from
the very beginning.
Even when I first started havingthese feelings of I need to do
(04:32):
something else, I was in mytwenties.
Still like this went on forquite a long time.
But it was God, you've investedso much at an undergraduate
degree, a master's degree, likewhat are you going to do?
Start over all these kinds oflimiting stories?
Um, but that voice in my heartjust got louder and louder to
where it was so unbearable.
(04:54):
So for me, what I started doingis listening to where my heart
was guiding me and you know notnecessarily where the voice of
fear in my mind was guided me.
So for me, my, my heart voiceguided me eventually to taking a
pretty like drastic leap.
(05:15):
That doesn't work for everyoneand that might not be where your
heart voice is guiding you, andso that's like.
What I want to really hit homeis mine might be different, but
I'd been at this for a reallylong time.
I had been trying to make itwork in corporate via different
companies, different avenueswithin my industry, for a really
(05:35):
long time.
Jen (05:36):
Strengthening the heart voice, and I think there's so
many ways to describe what thatis your intuition.
It's subtle, it feels different.
For me it was how often do Itrust it?
And we'll talk about, like, thesmall ways and the big ways as
we get into it, but as we kindof fast forward to where you are
today and how much time hasgone by since that early day
(06:00):
story that you just gave us, towhere you are today, I made the
leap in 2015.
So yeah, Okay and part of whatyou've done which is just so
beautiful.
In 2021, you've launched theWomen's Purpose Community, which
services C-suite women whocrave a safe space to do
courageous work.
I am sure a lot of these womenhave a lot of pressure.
(06:24):
The stakes are high in theirlife.
If we can just kind of zoom outand think about, what are some
of the macro themes that you seeemerging right now for women in
the C-suite.
Jessica (06:35):
I have a lot of women that come in that are like, hey,
I've been miserable in thiscareer forever.
I've been, you know, living fora paycheck.
I don't want to do that anymore.
I want to do something that I'mexcited to do every day.
I want to get paid to do what Ilove.
I want to get paid to be me.
Call it a collective shift inconsciousness, but the old ways
(06:56):
are just feeling a little tooheavy.
So I do have a lot of that.
In a more general sense, a lotof women that come in struggle
with what women in some waysuniquely face still, even in
this day and age, is, you know,being a caretaker but also
having a career and just nothaving time for themselves and
that lack of life balance and Iwent through it too when I was
(07:18):
in corporate leading to thingslike burnout, leading to things
where they're just pulling atboth ends and feeling so
disconnected from themselves.
And, look, I would say somewomen too are really trying to
reinvent the paradigm fromwithin, which is a really
challenging thing to do.
(07:38):
A lot of companies are reallygood about talking the talk, but
they're not necessarily walkingthe walk when it comes to, you
know, greater flexibility,really placing an emphasis on
well-being and purpose andthings of that nature.
Jen (07:54):
For the women who are trying to reinvent from within
the system.
What are some critical thingsthat they're talking about and
how they're going to accomplishthis?
And the reason I'm saying thisis that in the last week or two,
I've just been noticing a lotof articles about how difficult
it is to keep senior level womenin roles right now because of
(08:17):
all the things that you justmentioned.
Roles right now because of allthe things that you just
mentioned and the bottom line isit's a culture problem, and so,
as much as we can think aboutskills for ourselves in these
moments, I think there's twoparts.
It's what do we do forourselves, but how do we enable
the cultures or anything thatyou're actually seeing in terms
of tangible shifts?
Jessica (08:36):
There is a lot of data.
Korn Ferry, for example, hasdone a lot of research on a
variety of these topics andshown that, you know, elevating
women in leadership is not likeabout giving them more training.
It's about honoring lifebalance, honoring these types of
things, honoring a sense ofpurpose, and that's how women
grow.
(08:56):
So what I would say is, yeah,you know, continuing to stay and
be a voice, continuing to haveconversations with the right
people and bringing in a blendof you know, data backed
solutions and being patient.
That change is often notsweeping, but small.
(09:17):
Yeah, well said.
Jen (09:19):
For those folks.
I'm just kind of going back tosome of the key indicators that,
when people are at the doorstepof that major change that
you've walked yourself throughand you're kind of leading the
way for so many, what are someindicators that someone's there?
Jessica (09:35):
If you're being truly honest with yourself, like do
you love what?
We are not meant to trudgethrough life, we are not meant
to like have lukewarmcomplacency about what we're
dedicating our whole life to.
So, and for me and I say ifyou're willing to be honest with
(09:56):
yourself, because for me, for along time, my definition like I
say, if you're willing to behonest with yourself because for
me, for a long time, mydefinition, like I settled, I
was like well, I'm happy,sometimes I sort of like it and
like that was good enough.
And so, redefining what'spossible for you, I'd say do you
really love what you do and doyou love it most days?
Love, not like If you'redreading it, if you're feeling
anxious, you know all thesekinds of things.
(10:18):
Your body is always speaking toyou.
I'll give you one example, andit's a pretty significant one.
In one of my jobs withinadvertising, when I was reached
a real apex one of many apexes Ihad several it took me a while
to listen with this is Iliterally started having panic
attacks and, of course, what Igot diagnosed with was like
(10:40):
anxiety disorder.
No, as soon as I made a switch,no more anxiety, no more panic
attacks.
But it was really like I say,the way I talk, my soul was
screaming out to me through mybody, saying this isn't working
for you.
Make a different choice, make achange.
Jen (10:58):
Yeah, and I think sometimes we allow ourselves to be in the
conditions and we either get soused to the discomfort or the
fear of taking the leap and therisk and you know we'll have
everything to lose.
Because I've built this biglife for myself.
That feels more painful thanthe sitting and suffering.
Jessica (11:21):
I'd love everyone to learn the acronym for fear,
which is false evidenceappearing real.
So fear is always a liar andwhen you're connected to your
lower consciousness, your higherconsciousness is entirely
possible for you.
You are going to see limitationwhere there truly isn't.
(11:41):
You're going to make up storiesof limitation, like up here,
that truly don't exist.
So I'd actually say, like,actually get quiet witness and
look at the stories that you'rebasing these decisions on.
You know, coming from thefear-based mind, and just from a
playful, curious standpoint,ask yourself like are these
actuallybased mind?
And just from a playful,curious standpoint, ask yourself
, like are these actually true?
(12:02):
You get to write the story ofyour life, so you don't have to
choose this.
Jen (12:07):
What are some real practical exercises that people
can do?
Jessica (12:11):
One is.
This one helps me the most it'sit's looking at it from the
higher perspective, at it fromthe higher perspective.
And, for you to remember, I amin alignment if I don't take
actions based on where thatvoice of fear is guiding me.
So if that voice of fear for mein my first few years of the
sole purpose journey, it wasthis is never going to work, go
(12:32):
get a damn job.
There's three levels ofembodiment there's actions and
then there's feeling andthinking.
Feeling and thinking goingtogether.
So we're talking about actionsright now.
So I did this for years.
My voice of fear, everythingwas saying.
I totally believed it.
I believed every false story.
Fine, I didn't try to notbelieve it.
(12:53):
I didn't play that game.
My only job was I'm not goingto take the actions based on
whatever it's saying to do.
So that's step one.
When you feel like you're in agroove with that, then I say
work on your thinking andfeeling and they go together.
So whenever you're feelingstress, ask yourself what am I
thinking right now?
Pause and ask.
Then ask is this true?
(13:15):
Yeah, thoughts are not facts,they're just thoughts.
They're just thoughts thatyou're choosing and even though
it doesn't feel that way you getto choose everything you're
thinking.
In every moment you get tochoose your perceptions.
That is your empowerment toremember.
You have a choice.
So pause and say, even if Idon't even believe it, don't
(13:35):
even get in that what'ssomething, a different story I
could choose to perceive rightnow.
What could I choose to thinkdifferently?
So pause and redirect, andthat's a practice and a great
way to do it is set yourselflike little calendar invites
throughout the day, a little 15minute calendar invites where
you get you to say what am Ithinking right now?
Jen (13:54):
Yeah, or where have I been in the last hour?
You know just yes, uh, I lovethat, and I find if I do that
maintenance through the day,then it, it's, it's a little, it
feels a little less heavy everysingle day.
And so then what's the nextstep?
Jessica (14:11):
There's two paths to healing.
There are two simultaneouspaths in one, and this is the
one we're talking about now.
So the one we're talking aboutwas like take contrary action.
You know, create newneuropathways, right, and you do
that in your healing stuff.
You are, you're healing the youknow, the reptilian brain
that's always in the fear spiral, right.
So that works.
But the simultaneous path iswell, what's the iceberg, what's
(14:35):
below, what's below the surface, what's really going on here?
And here's the beautiful thingas you start to bring that
iceberg up, or those roots up,and then I say, into the light,
so into your awareness, theystart to dissolve.
What remains hidden keeps itspower over you, and why
sometimes you're spiraling onthe same fears and same stories
(14:58):
over and over, and you don'tknow why.
You know because there'ssomething beneath the surface
going on.
And so there's two ways to lookat this.
One is just understand whatyou're really afraid of.
In my book I talk about it aslike the what if fear game,
where you go, if this happens,you know then, what am I really
afraid of?
And you keep going down down toyou, just feel I've gotten to
the root fear.
(15:19):
You know I'm, I'm going downdown to you just feel I've
gotten to the root fear.
You know I'm, I'm, I'm afraidI'm going to end up homeless on
the street.
So that might be what's goingon.
What also might be below thesurface is, you know and we all
have trauma, right, some worsethan others that you learned
something, you know via anytrauma, or not just via your own
parents, unconsciousness,growing up.
(15:40):
That is just this hardcore,limiting belief or pain that's
unhealed, that's actuallydriving it and then, depending
on what it is, there's differentways to approach that a lot of
times we want to avoid it, wewant to just, you know, push
through like, not deal with it.
Jen (15:57):
But there's a great gift on the other side of that iceberg
when you do go down and you cantake it all in very differently
and see your options and seewhat's around you in a different
way.
Jessica (16:07):
It's hard sometimes to look down and bring that stuff
up.
I get that, but the easy partis is when you do just like you
described, it starts you unravel.
It's just because it's hiddenin your lack of self-awareness
that has kept it having thispower over you.
Jen (16:22):
Jessica, when you see people battling this dynamic,
like what are the blockers, likewhat's in the way from people
really trusting their gut ortheir intuition?
Jessica (16:30):
The whole process of it is once you can start to not be
so identified with the voice offear in your mind and you're
identified if you're believingin most things that you say
there are true.
So when I say identified, itmeans you're, you're having a
thought, you're believing it'strue, you're identified.
So as soon as you start havingthat little pause that we talked
(16:52):
about earlier and justwitnessing it and just witness
is objective and detached andjust going Hmm, that's a thought
, I don't know if it's true ornot, I don't know if I believe
it or not, and you're creatingthat space.
What happens is, all of asudden, that voice of your heart
, your soul, your gut.
You start to feel moreconnected to it.
(17:13):
You start to hear it, but youdon't hear it in the same way.
It's a feeling.
So your intuition, your gut,your soul voice, it's not
talking at you all day long.
That's a feeling.
So your, your intuition, your,your gut, your soul voice, it's
not talking at you all day long.
That's your ego.
Jen (17:24):
Quite honestly.
Having the courage to makethese decisions and lead from
this way is really what I'mhoping becomes of this
conversation.
And that brings me to the nexttopic, which is action, and in
your book I love that you talkabout inspired action versus ego
based action.
And for those of us who are inaction all day, making decisions
(17:46):
and moving through a busyworkday, hey, how do we tell the
difference?
And let's let's define theterms and get clear with what
they are.
Jessica (17:55):
Ego action is the voice of fear, and where that's
guiding you and when youractions in alignment with that
inspired action and it's more inrather than soul action I guess
you could call it that too orintuitive action is because
that's, that's the language ofthat resonance, right?
It's not usually like thislinear story.
(18:17):
It's like you have a feelingand you act upon it.
The other thing, too, that'sreally important with it, and
and look, I applied this when Iwas building my sole purpose,
business is the way that I dohas shifted in two ways.
One, like, yes, I can have abusiness plan, but I'm not going
(18:37):
to necessarily stick to my plan.
If the resonance, if myintuition is calling me to pivot
in some way, I'm going tolisten to that.
When it comes in over the plan,yeah, okay.
So it doesn't mean like you getrid of planning and, you know,
don't have your tasks and all ofthat.
However, I honor the resonance,I honor the inspired action my
(18:59):
intuition is guiding me to take,even if it's unexpected, you
know.
So that's like the inspired.
It happens, you know, withinthe day.
The other thing, too, in termsof you know how I approach doing
now.
It's an energetic shift for me.
So if I am, you know, doingwhatever tasks and everything,
and I feel like I'm in thisfear-based energy of striving
(19:21):
trying to make something happen,push, pull, you know this kind
of energy, I know that's notserving the expansion of my sole
purpose business and in factit's probably hurting it Okay.
So I pause and take a break.
If I cannot be in action or indoing from a place of at least
neutrality but hopefullyexcitement, then I know I'm
(19:41):
doing more harm than good as I'mtalking with you.
Jen (19:44):
I'm just thinking about people who are in environments
where everybody else is notcompletely operating this way,
and what I would say to everyoneis just find the small ways
that you can implement some ofthese ideas that we're talking
about.
If you don't have the fullflexibility like
entrepreneurship, like, yes, itcomes with a lot of risk, but
this is the other flip side isthat you get to operate the way
(20:05):
you want to operate, um, but forthose who potentially don't, I
think there's a lot that we caninfluence every single day,
regardless of the environmentand the dynamics that our
colleagues or coworkers might bein.
And you'd be surprised, right,like you'd be surprised what
shifts when you shift, when webring that forward, when we
(20:26):
bring our authentic selves toour team, to our colleagues.
I've enjoyed your book so muchand I can't thank you enough for
all the work you do for thesewomen who are, you know,
profound leaders in their ownright and making fantastic
change in the world.
So thank you for being herewith us today.
Jessica (20:45):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been such a pleasure.
Jen (20:48):
Thank you for joining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
Today we're chatting with Jessica Joins, founder of the
Women's Purpose Community andauthor of Dare to Believe 12
Lessons for Living your SoulPurpose.
Jessica (00:10):
We are not meant to trudge through life.
We are not meant to like havelukewarm complacency about what
we're dedicating our whole lifeto.
If you're willing to be honestwith yourself because for me,
for a long time I was like, well, I'm happy.
Sometimes I sort of like it andlike that was good enough.
Jen (00:28):
In this episode, we'll offer actionable insights to
help you reconnect with yourintuition, redefine success on
your own terms and findfulfillment in your life.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the podcast everyone.
Jessica, thank you so much forbeing here with us today.
I have been deep in your bookfor the better part of a week
(00:51):
and all of the concepts.
So your book is Dare to Believe12 Lessons for Living your Soul
.
Purpose.
And for me this week, as I'vebeen thinking about some new
things on the horizon.
For myself, I find that thisbook was extremely helpful as an
inner compass on a lot ofdecision-making that I had to
(01:13):
make for myself, so I'm excitedto dive into some of the
principles.
Jessica (01:16):
Well, I'm so glad to be with you.
I've been so excited for this.
You're doing such beautiful,incredible work, so it's really
my honor to be with you today.
Jen (01:26):
Oh well, our treat as well, and I felt it important to
start with your backstory.
Would you mind just beginningto share a little bit of the
major pivot points and lessonslearned along that journey for
yourself?
Jessica (01:41):
Yeah, well, the headline is I spent nearly 20
years in a career I didn't loveand most days didn't even like,
so like, if you can relate tothat on any spectrum, you're
listening to the right show.
When I look back upon my story,like so many of us, I
approached the decision of whatyou're going to do with your
(02:02):
whole life.
You know at least eight, 10hours a day, a sacred decision
with the energy of survival andscarcity consciousness.
So I'm Gen X.
You know that's the generationI am.
I do see people talking aboutpurpose in younger generations,
which I think is incredible.
It was not a conversation when Iwas making the important
(02:24):
decision of what I was going tostudy, what I was going to do
with my life.
You would hear like do what youlove, but nobody really like
did it.
So when I started out, it wasreally what can I do that I can
be good at and make money?
And, like you know, it had tobe something I enjoyed or liked.
But it wasn't like what do Ideeply love, what am I
(02:47):
passionate about?
So it was skill-based, andskill-based is very much
scarcity, like it's acompetition out there.
I got to find something I'mgood at to earn.
And so where that led me is, youknow, roughly 20 years in the
advertising and field ofmarketing.
I did really well, I was reallysuccessful.
I started working attraditional ad agencies, moved
(03:10):
into media and at the end of mycareer I was the global CMO of a
technology company, and apretty big one.
So that's where I ended and Ialways felt something was wrong
from the very beginning, when Iwould go to work every day and
kind of dread it, but I felttrapped in it and didn't know
what else to do.
(03:30):
But I didn't know what to doabout it and that's what took me
a long time to figure out.
Jen (03:37):
What did you do for yourself in those moments where
you look back and you go yeah,thank God, I did.
That was the catalyst towardswhere I am right now.
Jessica (03:47):
What worked for me and the way I approached it.
I think there's some incrediblelearnings of it, but what I
want to invite everyone is notget attached to the specifics of
the how and my exact story, butthe themes behind it and how I
approach things.
And so what I did for meeventually is basically like my
heart, you know, you, you hearoften like this, you know, like
(04:11):
heart and head, like theconflict and the battle there.
So my heart had been screamingat me for a long time but I just
wasn't willing to listen to itbecause the voice of fear in my
mind was so loud.
And the stories of voice offear in my mind told me was from
the very beginning.
Even when I first started havingthese feelings of I need to do
(04:32):
something else, I was in mytwenties.
Still like this went on forquite a long time.
But it was God, you've investedso much at an undergraduate
degree, a master's degree, likewhat are you going to do?
Start over all these kinds oflimiting stories?
Um, but that voice in my heartjust got louder and louder to
where it was so unbearable.
(04:54):
So for me, what I started doingis listening to where my heart
was guiding me and you know notnecessarily where the voice of
fear in my mind was guided me.
So for me, my, my heart voiceguided me eventually to taking a
pretty like drastic leap.
(05:15):
That doesn't work for everyoneand that might not be where your
heart voice is guiding you, andso that's like.
What I want to really hit homeis mine might be different, but
I'd been at this for a reallylong time.
I had been trying to make itwork in corporate via different
companies, different avenueswithin my industry, for a really
(05:35):
long time.
Jen (05:36):
Strengthening the heart voice, and I think there's so
many ways to describe what thatis your intuition.
It's subtle, it feels different.
For me it was how often do Itrust it?
And we'll talk about, like, thesmall ways and the big ways as
we get into it, but as we kindof fast forward to where you are
today and how much time hasgone by since that early day
(06:00):
story that you just gave us, towhere you are today, I made the
leap in 2015.
So yeah, Okay and part of whatyou've done which is just so
beautiful.
In 2021, you've launched theWomen's Purpose Community, which
services C-suite women whocrave a safe space to do
courageous work.
I am sure a lot of these womenhave a lot of pressure.
(06:24):
The stakes are high in theirlife.
If we can just kind of zoom outand think about, what are some
of the macro themes that you seeemerging right now for women in
the C-suite.
Jessica (06:35):
I have a lot of women that come in that are like, hey,
I've been miserable in thiscareer forever.
I've been, you know, living fora paycheck.
I don't want to do that anymore.
I want to do something that I'mexcited to do every day.
I want to get paid to do what Ilove.
I want to get paid to be me.
Call it a collective shift inconsciousness, but the old ways
(06:56):
are just feeling a little tooheavy.
So I do have a lot of that.
In a more general sense, a lotof women that come in struggle
with what women in some waysuniquely face still, even in
this day and age, is, you know,being a caretaker but also
having a career and just nothaving time for themselves and
that lack of life balance and Iwent through it too when I was
(07:18):
in corporate leading to thingslike burnout, leading to things
where they're just pulling atboth ends and feeling so
disconnected from themselves.
And, look, I would say somewomen too are really trying to
reinvent the paradigm fromwithin, which is a really
challenging thing to do.
(07:38):
A lot of companies are reallygood about talking the talk, but
they're not necessarily walkingthe walk when it comes to, you
know, greater flexibility,really placing an emphasis on
well-being and purpose andthings of that nature.
Jen (07:54):
For the women who are trying to reinvent from within
the system.
What are some critical thingsthat they're talking about and
how they're going to accomplishthis?
And the reason I'm saying thisis that in the last week or two,
I've just been noticing a lotof articles about how difficult
it is to keep senior level womenin roles right now because of
(08:17):
all the things that you justmentioned.
Roles right now because of allthe things that you just
mentioned and the bottom line isit's a culture problem, and so,
as much as we can think aboutskills for ourselves in these
moments, I think there's twoparts.
It's what do we do forourselves, but how do we enable
the cultures or anything thatyou're actually seeing in terms
of tangible shifts?
Jessica (08:36):
There is a lot of data.
Korn Ferry, for example, hasdone a lot of research on a
variety of these topics andshown that, you know, elevating
women in leadership is not likeabout giving them more training.
It's about honoring lifebalance, honoring these types of
things, honoring a sense ofpurpose, and that's how women
grow.
(08:56):
So what I would say is, yeah,you know, continuing to stay and
be a voice, continuing to haveconversations with the right
people and bringing in a blendof you know, data backed
solutions and being patient.
That change is often notsweeping, but small.
(09:17):
Yeah, well said.
Jen (09:19):
For those folks.
I'm just kind of going back tosome of the key indicators that,
when people are at the doorstepof that major change that
you've walked yourself throughand you're kind of leading the
way for so many, what are someindicators that someone's there?
Jessica (09:35):
If you're being truly honest with yourself, like do
you love what?
We are not meant to trudgethrough life, we are not meant
to like have lukewarmcomplacency about what we're
dedicating our whole life to.
So, and for me and I say ifyou're willing to be honest with
(09:56):
yourself, because for me, for along time, my definition like I
say, if you're willing to behonest with yourself because for
me, for a long time, mydefinition, like I settled, I
was like well, I'm happy,sometimes I sort of like it and
like that was good enough.
And so, redefining what'spossible for you, I'd say do you
really love what you do and doyou love it most days?
Love, not like If you'redreading it, if you're feeling
anxious, you know all thesekinds of things.
(10:18):
Your body is always speaking toyou.
I'll give you one example, andit's a pretty significant one.
In one of my jobs withinadvertising, when I was reached
a real apex one of many apexes Ihad several it took me a while
to listen with this is Iliterally started having panic
attacks and, of course, what Igot diagnosed with was like
(10:40):
anxiety disorder.
No, as soon as I made a switch,no more anxiety, no more panic
attacks.
But it was really like I say,the way I talk, my soul was
screaming out to me through mybody, saying this isn't working
for you.
Make a different choice, make achange.
Jen (10:58):
Yeah, and I think sometimes we allow ourselves to be in the
conditions and we either get soused to the discomfort or the
fear of taking the leap and therisk and you know we'll have
everything to lose.
Because I've built this biglife for myself.
That feels more painful thanthe sitting and suffering.
Jessica (11:21):
I'd love everyone to learn the acronym for fear,
which is false evidenceappearing real.
So fear is always a liar andwhen you're connected to your
lower consciousness, your higherconsciousness is entirely
possible for you.
You are going to see limitationwhere there truly isn't.
(11:41):
You're going to make up storiesof limitation, like up here,
that truly don't exist.
So I'd actually say, like,actually get quiet witness and
look at the stories that you'rebasing these decisions on.
You know, coming from thefear-based mind, and just from a
playful, curious standpoint,ask yourself like are these
actuallybased mind?
And just from a playful,curious standpoint, ask yourself
, like are these actually true?
(12:02):
You get to write the story ofyour life, so you don't have to
choose this.
Jen (12:07):
What are some real practical exercises that people
can do?
Jessica (12:11):
One is.
This one helps me the most it'sit's looking at it from the
higher perspective, at it fromthe higher perspective.
And, for you to remember, I amin alignment if I don't take
actions based on where thatvoice of fear is guiding me.
So if that voice of fear for mein my first few years of the
sole purpose journey, it wasthis is never going to work, go
(12:32):
get a damn job.
There's three levels ofembodiment there's actions and
then there's feeling andthinking.
Feeling and thinking goingtogether.
So we're talking about actionsright now.
So I did this for years.
My voice of fear, everythingwas saying.
I totally believed it.
I believed every false story.
Fine, I didn't try to notbelieve it.
(12:53):
I didn't play that game.
My only job was I'm not goingto take the actions based on
whatever it's saying to do.
So that's step one.
When you feel like you're in agroove with that, then I say
work on your thinking andfeeling and they go together.
So whenever you're feelingstress, ask yourself what am I
thinking right now?
Pause and ask.
Then ask is this true?
(13:15):
Yeah, thoughts are not facts,they're just thoughts.
They're just thoughts thatyou're choosing and even though
it doesn't feel that way you getto choose everything you're
thinking.
In every moment you get tochoose your perceptions.
That is your empowerment toremember.
You have a choice.
So pause and say, even if Idon't even believe it, don't
(13:35):
even get in that what'ssomething, a different story I
could choose to perceive rightnow.
What could I choose to thinkdifferently?
So pause and redirect, andthat's a practice and a great
way to do it is set yourselflike little calendar invites
throughout the day, a little 15minute calendar invites where
you get you to say what am Ithinking right now?
Jen (13:54):
Yeah, or where have I been in the last hour?
You know just yes, uh, I lovethat, and I find if I do that
maintenance through the day,then it, it's, it's a little, it
feels a little less heavy everysingle day.
And so then what's the nextstep?
Jessica (14:11):
There's two paths to healing.
There are two simultaneouspaths in one, and this is the
one we're talking about now.
So the one we're talking aboutwas like take contrary action.
You know, create newneuropathways, right, and you do
that in your healing stuff.
You are, you're healing the youknow, the reptilian brain
that's always in the fear spiral, right.
So that works.
But the simultaneous path iswell, what's the iceberg, what's
(14:35):
below, what's below the surface, what's really going on here?
And here's the beautiful thingas you start to bring that
iceberg up, or those roots up,and then I say, into the light,
so into your awareness, theystart to dissolve.
What remains hidden keeps itspower over you, and why
sometimes you're spiraling onthe same fears and same stories
(14:58):
over and over, and you don'tknow why.
You know because there'ssomething beneath the surface
going on.
And so there's two ways to lookat this.
One is just understand whatyou're really afraid of.
In my book I talk about it aslike the what if fear game,
where you go, if this happens,you know then, what am I really
afraid of?
And you keep going down down toyou, just feel I've gotten to
the root fear.
(15:19):
You know I'm, I'm going downdown to you just feel I've
gotten to the root fear.
You know I'm, I'm, I'm afraidI'm going to end up homeless on
the street.
So that might be what's goingon.
What also might be below thesurface is, you know and we all
have trauma, right, some worsethan others that you learned
something, you know via anytrauma, or not just via your own
parents, unconsciousness,growing up.
(15:40):
That is just this hardcore,limiting belief or pain that's
unhealed, that's actuallydriving it and then, depending
on what it is, there's differentways to approach that a lot of
times we want to avoid it, wewant to just, you know, push
through like, not deal with it.
Jen (15:57):
But there's a great gift on the other side of that iceberg
when you do go down and you cantake it all in very differently
and see your options and seewhat's around you in a different
way.
Jessica (16:07):
It's hard sometimes to look down and bring that stuff
up.
I get that, but the easy partis is when you do just like you
described, it starts you unravel.
It's just because it's hiddenin your lack of self-awareness
that has kept it having thispower over you.
Jen (16:22):
Jessica, when you see people battling this dynamic,
like what are the blockers, likewhat's in the way from people
really trusting their gut ortheir intuition?
Jessica (16:30):
The whole process of it is once you can start to not be
so identified with the voice offear in your mind and you're
identified if you're believingin most things that you say
there are true.
So when I say identified, itmeans you're, you're having a
thought, you're believing it'strue, you're identified.
So as soon as you start havingthat little pause that we talked
(16:52):
about earlier and justwitnessing it and just witness
is objective and detached andjust going Hmm, that's a thought
, I don't know if it's true ornot, I don't know if I believe
it or not, and you're creatingthat space.
What happens is, all of asudden, that voice of your heart
, your soul, your gut.
You start to feel moreconnected to it.
(17:13):
You start to hear it, but youdon't hear it in the same way.
It's a feeling.
So your intuition, your gut,your soul voice, it's not
talking at you all day long.
That's a feeling.
So your, your intuition, your,your gut, your soul voice, it's
not talking at you all day long.
That's your ego.
Jen (17:24):
Quite honestly.
Having the courage to makethese decisions and lead from
this way is really what I'mhoping becomes of this
conversation.
And that brings me to the nexttopic, which is action, and in
your book I love that you talkabout inspired action versus ego
based action.
And for those of us who are inaction all day, making decisions
(17:46):
and moving through a busyworkday, hey, how do we tell the
difference?
And let's let's define theterms and get clear with what
they are.
Jessica (17:55):
Ego action is the voice of fear, and where that's
guiding you and when youractions in alignment with that
inspired action and it's more inrather than soul action I guess
you could call it that too orintuitive action is because
that's, that's the language ofthat resonance, right?
It's not usually like thislinear story.
(18:17):
It's like you have a feelingand you act upon it.
The other thing, too, that'sreally important with it, and
and look, I applied this when Iwas building my sole purpose,
business is the way that I dohas shifted in two ways.
One, like, yes, I can have abusiness plan, but I'm not going
(18:37):
to necessarily stick to my plan.
If the resonance, if myintuition is calling me to pivot
in some way, I'm going tolisten to that.
When it comes in over the plan,yeah, okay.
So it doesn't mean like you getrid of planning and, you know,
don't have your tasks and all ofthat.
However, I honor the resonance,I honor the inspired action my
(18:59):
intuition is guiding me to take,even if it's unexpected, you
know.
So that's like the inspired.
It happens, you know, withinthe day.
The other thing, too, in termsof you know how I approach doing
now.
It's an energetic shift for me.
So if I am, you know, doingwhatever tasks and everything,
and I feel like I'm in thisfear-based energy of striving
(19:21):
trying to make something happen,push, pull, you know this kind
of energy, I know that's notserving the expansion of my sole
purpose business and in factit's probably hurting it Okay.
So I pause and take a break.
If I cannot be in action or indoing from a place of at least
neutrality but hopefullyexcitement, then I know I'm
(19:41):
doing more harm than good as I'mtalking with you.
Jen (19:44):
I'm just thinking about people who are in environments
where everybody else is notcompletely operating this way,
and what I would say to everyoneis just find the small ways
that you can implement some ofthese ideas that we're talking
about.
If you don't have the fullflexibility like
entrepreneurship, like, yes, itcomes with a lot of risk, but
this is the other flip side isthat you get to operate the way
(20:05):
you want to operate, um, but forthose who potentially don't, I
think there's a lot that we caninfluence every single day,
regardless of the environmentand the dynamics that our
colleagues or coworkers might bein.
And you'd be surprised, right,like you'd be surprised what
shifts when you shift, when webring that forward, when we
(20:26):
bring our authentic selves toour team, to our colleagues.
I've enjoyed your book so muchand I can't thank you enough for
all the work you do for thesewomen who are, you know,
profound leaders in their ownright and making fantastic
change in the world.
So thank you for being herewith us today.
Jessica (20:45):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been such a pleasure.
Jen (20:48):
Thank you for joining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
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