January 14, 2024 • 29 mins
Have you ever wondered how the slip-ups and stumbles life throws at us can be the very things that propel us forward? Meredith Shaw, Breakfast Television's vibrant new co-host, joins us to share her journey of authenticity and how a little on-air misstep can lead to a mountain of growth. Her stories from a career spanning fashion, music, and now broadcasting, teach us the importance of passion, adaptability, and the power of a supportive network. Be prepared to be inspired by Meredith’s candidness on leading with your true self and finding strength in the moments of imperfection.
This episode is a treasure trove of personal mantras and insights, highlighting the delicate dance between self-improvement and self-compassion that many of us navigate every day. So come along and celebrate resilience, empowerment, and the authenticity of your own path with us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Grit and Grace podcast, we shine the spotlight
on the stories behind theleader.
As the new co-host of BreakfastTelevision, she wakes up the
country with her wit and warmth.
Yes, I am thrilled to announcethat Meredith Shaw is joining us
today.
In this episode, she getscandid about leading with
authenticity and the art ofturning mistakes into milestones
(00:22):
.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
My first radio job, which was in Toronto, I went a
bit off script.
I was talking about Halloweencandy and I said what kind of
Halloween candy are you?
I'm a Reese's.
And I said penis kind of girl.
Twitter goes nuts.
The phone lines start ringing.
Everything in that minutechanged for me, because it
(00:44):
taught me that who you are is in.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Your imperfection is in how you deal with what is
thrown at you as we step intothis new year.
Her message is clear it is notabout reinventing ourselves.
It's about bringing more of whowe truly are into every aspect
of our lives.
This episode is a celebrationof authenticity, resilience and
empowerment.
Let's dive in.
(01:07):
This is really a bit of asurreal mind blowing moment for
me to have you on the show kindof so early in our journey, and
as I was learning so much moreabout you, I found this quote
from Steve Jobs and the minute Iread it it screamed Meredith to
me.
So I wanted to kind of startwith this quote yes, you can't
(01:29):
connect the dots looking forward.
You can only connect the dotslooking backwards.
So you have to trust that thedots will somehow connect in
your future.
You have to trust in somethingyour gut, destiny, life, karma,
whatever.
This approach has never let medown.
It has made all the differencein my life.
When you hear that quote, doesthat resonate true when you
(01:53):
reflect on your journey?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, you cannot connect the dots looking forward
and I certainly have had a lotof dots in my career.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, that's what stood out to me, right Like so
many so many moves.
How have those transitionsreally prepared you for your
dream job today and where youare?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, well, I mean again in that moment, looking
back, I mean I needed to do allof those things in order to be
the person that is able to stepinto this role at breakfast
television a dream role for me.
You have to be able to talk to alot of people with a lot of
different stories and in a lotof different ways, and because
of my experience in the fashionworld and in the music world and
(02:35):
the radio world, broadcastingworld, I've been able to, I
think, step in to the rolequickly, because a lot of those
things really did prepare me andat the time it felt a little
chaotic when I was doing lots ofthings, but the through line
for me was always that I lovedthem and I feel like if you move
(02:58):
toward what you love, lifestarts to put things in your
path.
That makes sense, you know.
And when I have people now askme some questions or seek advice
, or you know, I always say whatare you doing right now?
And if they're like, well, I'mworking at Starbucks or I'm
doing whatever they're doing tomake it for me to try to get
into the industry they want tobe in, and you know I'm big on
(03:22):
strategy, so we talk strategyand who I might know that they
might have a good conversationwith or whatever, but I also say
to them don't look too farahead.
It's like being at a party andyou're talking to someone and
they're looking toward the nextperson, like if you're working
at Starbucks, be the bestdambarista that Starbucks had
(03:44):
ever seen yeah.
Because when you become known orbest or just impassioned by
what you're doing in the moment,you are very attractive to
other things like people,experiences, who knows who you
meet.
It's good to love what you'reup to or find something about
what you're up to that you love,and I think that actually
(04:06):
stands you in better stead thankind of constantly looking for
the next experience.
You got to stand in somegratitude and some fun and some
some love where you are, and ifyou really can't find it, then
you know with respect, given howdifficult life is these days,
and you know, I think you shouldtry to do something else,
(04:28):
Because I think where you arenow has more to do with where
you're going than you mightthink, especially when you're
trying to get into an industrythat seems almost like what?
What is the entry point?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You know, as I was learning about your journey, you
kind of had some serendipitousmoments that have happened along
the way, you know, whether itwas, like, you know, your break
in modeling or your countrymusic career, and I kind of
thought about those moments.
But I feel like we all getthose moments that we don't plan
for.
They kind of show up wherethere's the person, the
opportunity, and we have to havethe courage to act, to move, to
(05:01):
pivot, as you were at thosecrossroads and making a change
from modeling to music or musicto radio.
How did you evaluate thosepivots?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I mean, I really looked to my circle.
I have very, very good friendsand family that I rely on a lot
for those moments where youdon't quite believe you can make
the leap or the move, or maybethis feels a little safer, so
we're going to stay here.
And luckily I've had, you know,really good girlfriends in my
(05:32):
life.
Some of them I've known since Iwas two, three years old and
those are the people that likeknow you and can, in those
moments where you're kind oftalking a racket a little bit,
they can call me in, call me out, whatever, and kind of give you
a bit of a reality check.
So I do, I do think in thosemoments or maybe not a reality
check, you know to encourage youto leap and I've had great
(05:54):
benefit with that.
So I think you know your circle, whether it's your family or
your chosen family, you know putthem to work.
Sometimes in those moments take,you know, have conversations
and confidence.
Sometimes you need thatsounding board and that's okay.
And then you just got to reallytune in, almost like you know
(06:15):
tune in a radio or tuning aguitar.
You got to tune into that, thatinner voice we all have.
It gets quite soft becausethere's so many other things
going on, but that that voicethat sometimes you don't even
want to hear, you're like, ohGod, I feel like I know the
answer to this and I don't wantto know the answer to this,
because I'd rather be the otheranswer.
But I think you got to getquiet enough that you can hear
(06:37):
yourself and trust, trustyourself.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I couldn't agree more .
I was actually on a bit of acall with a bunch of female
founders last week and one womansaid just like I knew it was
the wrong decision, but I didnot trust myself because I
thought somebody else knewbetter.
My investors knew more.
But so when you're talkingabout that, I think one tip that
I resonate to is like, yeah,you have to be able to hear it,
(07:03):
but you also have to not allowexternal pressure.
I mean, you have a circle oftrust but you don't have that
and you're getting informationthat may not be the best.
How do you not go down thatroad?
And I've been thinking a lotabout how confident you are in
your role, in your career andthere's a lot of external
pressure, and how have you kindof found your voice to lead in
(07:25):
an unconventional way?
And you've been such apowerhouse and a leader for body
inclusivity.
So how have you done that?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I show up, I keep showing up in the body that I
have.
Some days are easier thanothers, some comments hit harder
than others, but generally Iand I say this with with a lot
of admiration, you know, for alot of my sisters, especially in
broadcasting, who deal withjust stuff all the time.
I don't quite know how, but Idon't get a ton of it.
(07:54):
I get.
I do get quite a bit of supportand the only thing I can think
about with that is is there's aI'm quite open in my
conversations, but I thinkthere's also some boundary there
.
I don't talk a lot about, youknow, workout plans or food or
(08:19):
like in terms of like diet plansor any of those types of things
, or because I don't really wantto invite.
It's not that I'm not doingsome of them or but I don't
really want to invite that kindof conversation.
So I think you have to bejudicial about the conversations
you engage in and what is foreverybody to participate and
then what's just for you,because I think that's hopefully
(08:41):
also how other people I wouldlove, who are aware of me, to
set up their own lives that way,like there are some, you know,
whether you're public facing ornot.
There's some things that arefor you and your journey and
your successes and failures withit, or whatever that is, and
some things can be kept private,even in a world that really
wants all the information.
(09:02):
And in terms of the pressure, Ijust like I love what I do.
I'm so grateful for thisopportunity.
I'm so grateful that it came tome at this time, because I
think really again like goingback to your initial quote from
Steve Jobs when you look back,you can see those dots lining up
.
You also see why it maybe tooka little longer than you were
(09:23):
hoping for, or because it doesline up.
And I'm in a phase now thateven two years ago I wasn't in.
I have, I have more of aassuredness Because I think now
there's a realization that it'snot.
The assuredness comes for me,comes from what my intention is
(09:46):
with everything that I'm doingand who I'm doing it for, and
it's very much less about me andit's very much more about I'm
seen so I hope others feel seenso.
When moments dip in myconfidence or I feel a pressure
of a certain way, I can stepoutside myself a little bit.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's like services, the counterforce to the pressure
, performance pressure,especially as it relates to the
topic of burnout, because thebig question I've been asking in
my head is the word burnouthasn't been around.
I haven't heard about culturefor a long time, but it's very
acute in how we talk about itnow.
One kind of thought I havearound burnout is if you're
(10:33):
exerting energy and youconstantly feel like you're
under your own performancepressure, self-scrutinizing
yourself, worrying, doubtingit's going to take twice the
amount of energy to execute inthat moment, regardless of what
you're doing.
And so I've been thinking aboutwhat is the counterforce to
(10:55):
this lack of confidence and itsounds like I resonate with
service Like what am I doingthis for?
How can I get out of myself myway?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, you put that so beautifully.
It is about service, it's aboutcommunity, it's about your
intention, your mission,whatever those things that can
exist outside of you that youcan hang on to in those moments
that you might dip and you willdip, and sort of having that
realization that that is alsovery normal, I think is
(11:27):
incredibly helpful.
And the ability to beconsistent, I think has served
me well too.
If I think about thatperformance pressure, you know,
if you have an ability tocontinually commit to showing up
honestly and with humor, youcan't really be clocked, and if
(11:50):
you are, you can't really takethat in from them because it's
not true.
You know, if you're showing upwith a kind intention and a real
sense of I might get this wrong, but let's give this a go.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think it allows other people to kind of maybe
get it wrong too.
But here we are being honest inthe moment.
You know, I started my careervery, very, very, very prepared.
I mean prepared to the point ofjust boredom, right.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Like oh, you mean like in your head prepared, like
it's all buttoned down.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, I wrote everything out.
I mean, what I was saying onthe radio, it was you know it
was it was.
It was just there was going tobe no error.
I wasn't going to make amistake.
Oh God forbid, I made a mistake.
And then I and I have shared thestory yeah, I was saying on the
radio my first radio job, whichwas in Toronto, which was
(12:44):
pretty rare, and I went a bitoff script.
I was talking about Halloweencandy and I said what kind of
Halloween candy are you?
I'm a Reese's.
And I said penis kind of girl,oh my God.
I said penis, oh my God.
I said it again this is a liveon the mic.
(13:06):
Oh no, exactly, I'm like I'mfired, like I'm, it's done, it's
over for me, good times.
Like I'm packing up my bag.
Well, twitter goes nuts, thephone lines start ringing, my
boss comes down the halllaughing, calling me penis.
Every.
Everything in that minutechanged for me, because it
(13:26):
taught me that actually, who youare is in your imperfection, is
in your recovery, it's in howyou deal with what is thrown at
you and that's how you get toknow someone and that's how you
understand their context anddon't be afraid of that.
Lean into that.
So yeah, it all kind of changedfor me in that moment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Did you find that you had a process of undoing the
performance, or was it like that?
Was it you know, foreverchanged in that moment?
Like what was that journey like?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I think it's.
You know, you spend a lot ofyour youth and teenage hood
learning, learning, learning andyoung adulthood, and then you
start to maybe show up inyourself a little bit more and
then you spend a bit of time,you know, unlearning things that
other people have espoused ontoyou because that's what worked
for them but it doesn't work foryou, and so you kind of change
(14:22):
things around.
So I think there was a littlebit of that pullback.
But I think for me it's alwaysabout feeling it Once I feel
what that feels like to make amistake, recover, keep going
people laughed, it was all fun.
I'm like, oh, give me more ofthat, I like that.
I like that feeling Becausethat means I kind of can't mess
up, because if I mess up and canrecover and there's some humor
(14:44):
there.
So then it just became findingthose moments, practicing some
of those things and trustingthat I've done enough of the
work.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It's not that I don't prepare anymore.
I prepare, prepare, prepare,like for an interview, and then
I toss it out and I stay presentwith what's going on.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, and I think it works for anybody.
It works if you're giving ameeting, if you're doing a
presentation.
I have so many people who havejust come to me and say I have a
hard time communicating upwardto the CEO.
It's the same dynamic thatyou're talking about.
Why is it?
You can talk freely one way,but the minute the conditions
change, we clamp down, we tameour voice or we feel this
(15:26):
performance pressure.
It's the same dynamic.
So this is wisdom for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It absolutely is.
Yeah, it can be applied in somany situations.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Do you find, meredith , that inner critic or that
harshest still shows up for youand you have to go through kind
of a conscious practice, adeeply processed, to keep up
with that?
Or are you feeling like a lotof the work's been done?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
No, unfortunately, that inner critic is very strong
and thrust, especially forwomen, especially women of a
certain generation.
It's really the understandingthat this is a back and forth
and this is a recognition thatit is an inner critic.
(16:16):
I mean, there was a time therewhere I just thought it was me.
I didn't have any distinctionbetween any thoughts, it was
just the thoughts that weregoing on.
So really being able to hearthat and decide like, am I going
to believe this and take thison, or is this a racket?
Is this something that I'm justspinning around with?
And for me, because much hasbeen made throughout my
(16:40):
professional career about mybody, about my size, I fit, I
don't a lot of my stuff comesback to that racket and I have a
mantra that I say to myselfwhen I get in those spaces,
which I find very calming andresetting and it's I am and I am
(17:06):
not my body, and it's thisdichotomy that I exist in, that
I think we all exist within that.
Who I am and what I bring tothe table and my worth and my
value.
It has nothing, nothing, zero,to do with my body, my size, in
the present moment, tomorrow,whenever, but at the same time I
(17:30):
am very connected to my bodyand I'm proud of her and we've
been through it together andthere has been work there and
journey there and so and therapythere and celebration and big
moments walking New York FashionWeek, and we've gone through a
lot of this body of mine and soI don't want to also not be her
like as if it's something thatdoesn't matter.
(17:52):
It does matter.
So, yeah, this sort of I am andI am not my body, I exist in
both ways.
I think allows me to be a bittwo things can be true at the
same time a bit fluid.
And then the other thing I heardvery recently from Dan Harris
and 10% happier, one of my favesto listen to.
He said and I loved this thatwhen he gets into his racket
(18:16):
about whatever his racket stuffis and sometimes for him he has
shared that it is his body He'llsay two words wrong yardstick.
Wow, I love that because he'slike, no, you're using the wrong
yardstick to measure your worth, your value yourself right now.
And it's two words that kind ofsnap him back into oh, that's
(18:41):
the inner critic, that's notactually who I am and what I
want to do, and you two keepgoing, so I also really love
that I'm adopting that too.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We're taping in December we haven't quite hit
holidays yet and likely air inJanuary.
I come out January every year.
This is the year I get veryexcited in the new year.
I've had to learn to kind ofhave incremental.
I think it's how taming theambition over time.
But how do you think about theidea of I want to improve myself
(19:13):
I have areas that I am excitedor eager to actively work and
grow on versus I need to acceptmyself more, when those two
things coexist, what is yourperspective on that?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
100%, and I think that is this state of kind of
body neutrality that really istaking over from body positivity
, because it's just arelationship that you have with
yourself, your present self,your past self, your future self
.
I mean, these are.
You can absolutely, and I thinkactually it's imperative that
(19:51):
you love who you are right nowin order to make change.
You can't change yourselfthrough hate.
It doesn't work.
If it does work, it won't workfor long.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
You can't whip yourself forward Like you will
burn out in that model.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yes, yeah, I mean, I've tried that model a couple
times.
It does not work, and that'sjust fact.
It's not going to work the nexttime.
So if anyone's listening andthinking about that kind of
thing, I mean let's save themsome time.
I think that's not the wayforward or through, but
absolutely there's a way to havegoals health goals, movement
(20:28):
goals.
I think it's all in how youframe it, it's all in your
perspective and self-talk, andyou can find a lot of that now
out there.
I mean, there's a lot ofcommunities that really
understand that combination andeven that mantra of mine the I
am and I am not my body.
That also relates to that dualrelationship we have with
(20:50):
ourselves, that I can love mybody and be in the process of
changing it.
I do think, though, you have tohave some safety boundaries
around that, because I think wecan very quickly fall into
patterns that have been verygrooved over many, many years
(21:15):
and that can almost be sort ofan excuse you give yourself when
really you're doing somebehaviors that aren't the best
for you.
So I caution people to keepthemselves in check with that.
It's your body, do with it whatyou want.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
It's about the compassion and I think
compassion is the energy that Ihave now, like married ambition
with.
Because I can have compassionfor the moment, I can have
acceptance for where I'm at.
I can also be a dreamer, like Ican, you know, want for more,
and I think a lot about you knowhow people do struggle in the
(21:53):
new year I think next year, tobe honest with you, I think in
leadership, community plusauthenticity and being just.
In the age where we will haveAI everywhere, realness will
prevail and I just think it'sgoing to be the counterforce.
But for people who want to getinvolved with um you've been a
(22:13):
part of a lot of things like arethere real tools or communities
or anything that you couldrecommend so that, if people
want to have anything to do with, like improving their
confidence or making you know apositive change in the community
, what would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, I mean being in community with others is so key
, I think, especially if youhave felt other in your life at
all like whatever that means.
I think finding finding yourpeople is a huge key to being
able to really unlock your powerwithin your voice and yourself,
and it really is transformative.
(22:50):
I mean I have found mine onsocial media.
I mean social media gets a verybad rap but it really can do a
lot of good.
I have people that I follow andI'm in communication with from
all over now, All over the world.
That brings such perspective tothe work that I do and not only
(23:16):
do you feel seen by each other,but you're really able to
support each other and sort ofgalvanize thoughts and make
things happen.
I mean, when I got this job onbreakfast television that curve,
community, body, neutral, body,positive I mean they came out
(23:37):
loud like they were sosupportive, I mean across the
board.
It was a very lovely welcome butbut I was very touched by how
much that community showed upfor me.
So I think as much as you maybegive to a community you're
looking for, they will also giveback, like there's.
(23:59):
There's real lovely give andtake.
So in terms of you know moretangible things on social media,
I mean follow at Meredith shop.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Absolutely everyone.
By the way, I think that I havestruggled so much on social
media in what I'll call editmode, meaning I want to put
something out.
I'm worried about what peoplewill say.
Like I have this, you know,like these voices around me,
which they are, I'm breakingthem this year.
They're going away and it'sjust going to be back into, like
(24:32):
freedom in the post.
And when you do that, like Ithis is what you're saying, is
how I'm here, just like it itcomes back and every you give
permission for everyone else tomove into that space, to your
posts are just their, theirnatural, their authentically you
, and that's that's the energythat I resonate with.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, that's just the best, Thank you, I mean, that's
what I hope for, but it'scertainly not where I started.
Like it's always awkward, likeyou have this sort of who do you
think you are voices going?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
on.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And like why does anyone care about what you think
in this moment or that moment?
Or or is that a few too manydresses that you're posting?
Like there's all kinds of stuffthat can start to happen, right
.
But my thing with, with, withsocials and how I sort of tend
to run my squares of theinternet is like is it?
Is it, is it funny, is ithelpful?
(25:24):
Is it just gorgeous?
Is it just hot?
You know, yeah, yeah, and andthose, if I can hit all three,
great, and if you know there's acouple, you know I think that
works.
But the, the other thing too,is, is sure, post away.
But social media is a two waystreet.
I mean the amount of times Ispend in my DMs.
(25:44):
Hmm, you know, sarah has becomea great friend for supply at
she's in her DM.
She's got 2 million peoplefollowing her.
She spends so much time in herDMs.
I don't have any or as manypeople following me, but I do
too.
I mean we have a lot ofconversations, because it's not
just a post.
Look at me.
It's like how does this hit you?
Like what are we?
(26:05):
How are we in conversation witheach other?
I think you know, sometimes myfiancee, rodney Bowers is like
Are you well?
Who are you talking to now?
And you know, before bed I'lldo, I'll respond to you know 50
messages or something, and Iwake up in the morning or I'm in
, you know in the back of anUber, whatever, because you know
you gotta find the fun.
You gotta find the fun in inthat space as well.
(26:27):
So if you follow me, I mean I'mhighlighting lots of people
that I love in terms of you knowthe work that they're doing,
the voices that that they'rethey're using, and what's
phenomenal now is with the showlike breakfast television.
I mean I can, I can put some ofthose voices on traditional
broadcast and then we reallystart going here, because it's
like okay, well, let's, let'sreally move, and I've been the
(26:52):
benefactor of so much help andinspo, and you know, from people
in this media landscape inCanada.
It's a real, it's just a realpleasure to be able to sort of
be a part of that now and to dothat in in my own way.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Meredith, you just you summed up the vision for me,
so thank you so much for beinghere.
This has been mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You are very good at this.
You should have no secondthought about.
You know, is this a directionto move in?
You absolutely should.
You ask beautifullythoughtfully curated questions
and yeah, this has been a real,this has been a real treat and I
think, if I can leave, you know, everybody with with a feeling
(27:38):
as they move into a new year,first of all, you know this new
year, new you.
Let's think of it as new yearmore of you, right?
Let's go more of ourselves intoeverything that we do.
And it's so worth the, the, thepractice of of showing up
authentically as yourself,because it is the hardest,
(28:00):
easiest thing you will ever do.
It is so hard to do until it'snot, and then it is the easiest
it's.
If it's not easy yet, just keepshowing up, because it will all
of a sudden kind of get easy,and then you'll think, oh my
gosh, why the heck was I tryingto contort myself to someone
(28:22):
different?
It's going to be so much easier, and then the effort will
lessen and then you will be ableto really show up
wholeheartedly and you'll you'llchange the spaces that you're
in.
I think that's just how itworks.
Yeah, thank you, jen, forhaving me.
This has been a true pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
We will wrap on that, Meredith.
Thank you for joining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
On the Grit and Grace podcast, we shine the spotlight
on the stories behind theleader.
As the new co-host of BreakfastTelevision, she wakes up the
country with her wit and warmth.
Yes, I am thrilled to announcethat Meredith Shaw is joining us
today.
In this episode, she getscandid about leading with
authenticity and the art ofturning mistakes into milestones
(00:22):
.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
My first radio job, which was in Toronto, I went a
bit off script.
I was talking about Halloweencandy and I said what kind of
Halloween candy are you?
I'm a Reese's.
And I said penis kind of girl.
Twitter goes nuts.
The phone lines start ringing.
Everything in that minutechanged for me, because it
(00:44):
taught me that who you are is in.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Your imperfection is in how you deal with what is
thrown at you as we step intothis new year.
Her message is clear it is notabout reinventing ourselves.
It's about bringing more of whowe truly are into every aspect
of our lives.
This episode is a celebrationof authenticity, resilience and
empowerment.
Let's dive in.
(01:07):
This is really a bit of asurreal mind blowing moment for
me to have you on the show kindof so early in our journey, and
as I was learning so much moreabout you, I found this quote
from Steve Jobs and the minute Iread it it screamed Meredith to
me.
So I wanted to kind of startwith this quote yes, you can't
(01:29):
connect the dots looking forward.
You can only connect the dotslooking backwards.
So you have to trust that thedots will somehow connect in
your future.
You have to trust in somethingyour gut, destiny, life, karma,
whatever.
This approach has never let medown.
It has made all the differencein my life.
When you hear that quote, doesthat resonate true when you
(01:53):
reflect on your journey?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, you cannot connect the dots looking forward
and I certainly have had a lotof dots in my career.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, that's what stood out to me, right Like so
many so many moves.
How have those transitionsreally prepared you for your
dream job today and where youare?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, well, I mean again in that moment, looking
back, I mean I needed to do allof those things in order to be
the person that is able to stepinto this role at breakfast
television a dream role for me.
You have to be able to talk to alot of people with a lot of
different stories and in a lotof different ways, and because
of my experience in the fashionworld and in the music world and
(02:35):
the radio world, broadcastingworld, I've been able to, I
think, step in to the rolequickly, because a lot of those
things really did prepare me andat the time it felt a little
chaotic when I was doing lots ofthings, but the through line
for me was always that I lovedthem and I feel like if you move
(02:58):
toward what you love, lifestarts to put things in your
path.
That makes sense, you know.
And when I have people now askme some questions or seek advice
, or you know, I always say whatare you doing right now?
And if they're like, well, I'mworking at Starbucks or I'm
doing whatever they're doing tomake it for me to try to get
into the industry they want tobe in, and you know I'm big on
(03:22):
strategy, so we talk strategyand who I might know that they
might have a good conversationwith or whatever, but I also say
to them don't look too farahead.
It's like being at a party andyou're talking to someone and
they're looking toward the nextperson, like if you're working
at Starbucks, be the bestdambarista that Starbucks had
(03:44):
ever seen yeah.
Because when you become known orbest or just impassioned by
what you're doing in the moment,you are very attractive to
other things like people,experiences, who knows who you
meet.
It's good to love what you'reup to or find something about
what you're up to that you love,and I think that actually
(04:06):
stands you in better stead thankind of constantly looking for
the next experience.
You got to stand in somegratitude and some fun and some
some love where you are, and ifyou really can't find it, then
you know with respect, given howdifficult life is these days,
and you know, I think you shouldtry to do something else,
(04:28):
Because I think where you arenow has more to do with where
you're going than you mightthink, especially when you're
trying to get into an industrythat seems almost like what?
What is the entry point?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You know, as I was learning about your journey, you
kind of had some serendipitousmoments that have happened along
the way, you know, whether itwas, like, you know, your break
in modeling or your countrymusic career, and I kind of
thought about those moments.
But I feel like we all getthose moments that we don't plan
for.
They kind of show up wherethere's the person, the
opportunity, and we have to havethe courage to act, to move, to
(05:01):
pivot, as you were at thosecrossroads and making a change
from modeling to music or musicto radio.
How did you evaluate thosepivots?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I mean, I really looked to my circle.
I have very, very good friendsand family that I rely on a lot
for those moments where youdon't quite believe you can make
the leap or the move, or maybethis feels a little safer, so
we're going to stay here.
And luckily I've had, you know,really good girlfriends in my
(05:32):
life.
Some of them I've known since Iwas two, three years old and
those are the people that likeknow you and can, in those
moments where you're kind oftalking a racket a little bit,
they can call me in, call me out, whatever, and kind of give you
a bit of a reality check.
So I do, I do think in thosemoments or maybe not a reality
check, you know to encourage youto leap and I've had great
(05:54):
benefit with that.
So I think you know your circle, whether it's your family or
your chosen family, you know putthem to work.
Sometimes in those moments take,you know, have conversations
and confidence.
Sometimes you need thatsounding board and that's okay.
And then you just got to reallytune in, almost like you know
(06:15):
tune in a radio or tuning aguitar.
You got to tune into that, thatinner voice we all have.
It gets quite soft becausethere's so many other things
going on, but that that voicethat sometimes you don't even
want to hear, you're like, ohGod, I feel like I know the
answer to this and I don't wantto know the answer to this,
because I'd rather be the otheranswer.
But I think you got to getquiet enough that you can hear
(06:37):
yourself and trust, trustyourself.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I couldn't agree more .
I was actually on a bit of acall with a bunch of female
founders last week and one womansaid just like I knew it was
the wrong decision, but I didnot trust myself because I
thought somebody else knewbetter.
My investors knew more.
But so when you're talkingabout that, I think one tip that
I resonate to is like, yeah,you have to be able to hear it,
(07:03):
but you also have to not allowexternal pressure.
I mean, you have a circle oftrust but you don't have that
and you're getting informationthat may not be the best.
How do you not go down thatroad?
And I've been thinking a lotabout how confident you are in
your role, in your career andthere's a lot of external
pressure, and how have you kindof found your voice to lead in
(07:25):
an unconventional way?
And you've been such apowerhouse and a leader for body
inclusivity.
So how have you done that?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I show up, I keep showing up in the body that I
have.
Some days are easier thanothers, some comments hit harder
than others, but generally Iand I say this with with a lot
of admiration, you know, for alot of my sisters, especially in
broadcasting, who deal withjust stuff all the time.
I don't quite know how, but Idon't get a ton of it.
(07:54):
I get.
I do get quite a bit of supportand the only thing I can think
about with that is is there's aI'm quite open in my
conversations, but I thinkthere's also some boundary there
.
I don't talk a lot about, youknow, workout plans or food or
(08:19):
like in terms of like diet plansor any of those types of things
, or because I don't really wantto invite.
It's not that I'm not doingsome of them or but I don't
really want to invite that kindof conversation.
So I think you have to bejudicial about the conversations
you engage in and what is foreverybody to participate and
then what's just for you,because I think that's hopefully
(08:41):
also how other people I wouldlove, who are aware of me, to
set up their own lives that way,like there are some, you know,
whether you're public facing ornot.
There's some things that arefor you and your journey and
your successes and failures withit, or whatever that is, and
some things can be kept private,even in a world that really
wants all the information.
(09:02):
And in terms of the pressure, Ijust like I love what I do.
I'm so grateful for thisopportunity.
I'm so grateful that it came tome at this time, because I
think really again like goingback to your initial quote from
Steve Jobs when you look back,you can see those dots lining up
.
You also see why it maybe tooka little longer than you were
(09:23):
hoping for, or because it doesline up.
And I'm in a phase now thateven two years ago I wasn't in.
I have, I have more of aassuredness Because I think now
there's a realization that it'snot.
The assuredness comes for me,comes from what my intention is
(09:46):
with everything that I'm doingand who I'm doing it for, and
it's very much less about me andit's very much more about I'm
seen so I hope others feel seenso.
When moments dip in myconfidence or I feel a pressure
of a certain way, I can stepoutside myself a little bit.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's like services, the counterforce to the pressure
, performance pressure,especially as it relates to the
topic of burnout, because thebig question I've been asking in
my head is the word burnouthasn't been around.
I haven't heard about culturefor a long time, but it's very
acute in how we talk about itnow.
One kind of thought I havearound burnout is if you're
(10:33):
exerting energy and youconstantly feel like you're
under your own performancepressure, self-scrutinizing
yourself, worrying, doubtingit's going to take twice the
amount of energy to execute inthat moment, regardless of what
you're doing.
And so I've been thinking aboutwhat is the counterforce to
(10:55):
this lack of confidence and itsounds like I resonate with
service Like what am I doingthis for?
How can I get out of myself myway?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, you put that so beautifully.
It is about service, it's aboutcommunity, it's about your
intention, your mission,whatever those things that can
exist outside of you that youcan hang on to in those moments
that you might dip and you willdip, and sort of having that
realization that that is alsovery normal, I think is
(11:27):
incredibly helpful.
And the ability to beconsistent, I think has served
me well too.
If I think about thatperformance pressure, you know,
if you have an ability tocontinually commit to showing up
honestly and with humor, youcan't really be clocked, and if
(11:50):
you are, you can't really takethat in from them because it's
not true.
You know, if you're showing upwith a kind intention and a real
sense of I might get this wrong, but let's give this a go.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think it allows other people to kind of maybe
get it wrong too.
But here we are being honest inthe moment.
You know, I started my careervery, very, very, very prepared.
I mean prepared to the point ofjust boredom, right.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Like oh, you mean like in your head prepared, like
it's all buttoned down.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, I wrote everything out.
I mean, what I was saying onthe radio, it was you know it
was it was.
It was just there was going tobe no error.
I wasn't going to make amistake.
Oh God forbid, I made a mistake.
And then I and I have shared thestory yeah, I was saying on the
radio my first radio job, whichwas in Toronto, which was
(12:44):
pretty rare, and I went a bitoff script.
I was talking about Halloweencandy and I said what kind of
Halloween candy are you?
I'm a Reese's.
And I said penis kind of girl,oh my God.
I said penis, oh my God.
I said it again this is a liveon the mic.
(13:06):
Oh no, exactly, I'm like I'mfired, like I'm, it's done, it's
over for me, good times.
Like I'm packing up my bag.
Well, twitter goes nuts, thephone lines start ringing, my
boss comes down the halllaughing, calling me penis.
Every.
Everything in that minutechanged for me, because it
(13:26):
taught me that actually, who youare is in your imperfection, is
in your recovery, it's in howyou deal with what is thrown at
you and that's how you get toknow someone and that's how you
understand their context anddon't be afraid of that.
Lean into that.
So yeah, it all kind of changedfor me in that moment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Did you find that you had a process of undoing the
performance, or was it like that?
Was it you know, foreverchanged in that moment?
Like what was that journey like?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I think it's.
You know, you spend a lot ofyour youth and teenage hood
learning, learning, learning andyoung adulthood, and then you
start to maybe show up inyourself a little bit more and
then you spend a bit of time,you know, unlearning things that
other people have espoused ontoyou because that's what worked
for them but it doesn't work foryou, and so you kind of change
(14:22):
things around.
So I think there was a littlebit of that pullback.
But I think for me it's alwaysabout feeling it Once I feel
what that feels like to make amistake, recover, keep going
people laughed, it was all fun.
I'm like, oh, give me more ofthat, I like that.
I like that feeling Becausethat means I kind of can't mess
up, because if I mess up and canrecover and there's some humor
(14:44):
there.
So then it just became findingthose moments, practicing some
of those things and trustingthat I've done enough of the
work.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It's not that I don't prepare anymore.
I prepare, prepare, prepare,like for an interview, and then
I toss it out and I stay presentwith what's going on.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, and I think it works for anybody.
It works if you're giving ameeting, if you're doing a
presentation.
I have so many people who havejust come to me and say I have a
hard time communicating upwardto the CEO.
It's the same dynamic thatyou're talking about.
Why is it?
You can talk freely one way,but the minute the conditions
change, we clamp down, we tameour voice or we feel this
(15:26):
performance pressure.
It's the same dynamic.
So this is wisdom for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It absolutely is.
Yeah, it can be applied in somany situations.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Do you find, meredith , that inner critic or that
harshest still shows up for youand you have to go through kind
of a conscious practice, adeeply processed, to keep up
with that?
Or are you feeling like a lotof the work's been done?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
No, unfortunately, that inner critic is very strong
and thrust, especially forwomen, especially women of a
certain generation.
It's really the understandingthat this is a back and forth
and this is a recognition thatit is an inner critic.
(16:16):
I mean, there was a time therewhere I just thought it was me.
I didn't have any distinctionbetween any thoughts, it was
just the thoughts that weregoing on.
So really being able to hearthat and decide like, am I going
to believe this and take thison, or is this a racket?
Is this something that I'm justspinning around with?
And for me, because much hasbeen made throughout my
(16:40):
professional career about mybody, about my size, I fit, I
don't a lot of my stuff comesback to that racket and I have a
mantra that I say to myselfwhen I get in those spaces,
which I find very calming andresetting and it's I am and I am
(17:06):
not my body, and it's thisdichotomy that I exist in, that
I think we all exist within that.
Who I am and what I bring tothe table and my worth and my
value.
It has nothing, nothing, zero,to do with my body, my size, in
the present moment, tomorrow,whenever, but at the same time I
(17:30):
am very connected to my bodyand I'm proud of her and we've
been through it together andthere has been work there and
journey there and so and therapythere and celebration and big
moments walking New York FashionWeek, and we've gone through a
lot of this body of mine and soI don't want to also not be her
like as if it's something thatdoesn't matter.
(17:52):
It does matter.
So, yeah, this sort of I am andI am not my body, I exist in
both ways.
I think allows me to be a bittwo things can be true at the
same time a bit fluid.
And then the other thing I heardvery recently from Dan Harris
and 10% happier, one of my favesto listen to.
He said and I loved this thatwhen he gets into his racket
(18:16):
about whatever his racket stuffis and sometimes for him he has
shared that it is his body He'llsay two words wrong yardstick.
Wow, I love that because he'slike, no, you're using the wrong
yardstick to measure your worth, your value yourself right now.
And it's two words that kind ofsnap him back into oh, that's
(18:41):
the inner critic, that's notactually who I am and what I
want to do, and you two keepgoing, so I also really love
that I'm adopting that too.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We're taping in December we haven't quite hit
holidays yet and likely air inJanuary.
I come out January every year.
This is the year I get veryexcited in the new year.
I've had to learn to kind ofhave incremental.
I think it's how taming theambition over time.
But how do you think about theidea of I want to improve myself
(19:13):
I have areas that I am excitedor eager to actively work and
grow on versus I need to acceptmyself more, when those two
things coexist, what is yourperspective on that?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
100%, and I think that is this state of kind of
body neutrality that really istaking over from body positivity
, because it's just arelationship that you have with
yourself, your present self,your past self, your future self
.
I mean, these are.
You can absolutely, and I thinkactually it's imperative that
(19:51):
you love who you are right nowin order to make change.
You can't change yourselfthrough hate.
It doesn't work.
If it does work, it won't workfor long.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
You can't whip yourself forward Like you will
burn out in that model.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yes, yeah, I mean, I've tried that model a couple
times.
It does not work, and that'sjust fact.
It's not going to work the nexttime.
So if anyone's listening andthinking about that kind of
thing, I mean let's save themsome time.
I think that's not the wayforward or through, but
absolutely there's a way to havegoals health goals, movement
(20:28):
goals.
I think it's all in how youframe it, it's all in your
perspective and self-talk, andyou can find a lot of that now
out there.
I mean, there's a lot ofcommunities that really
understand that combination andeven that mantra of mine the I
am and I am not my body.
That also relates to that dualrelationship we have with
(20:50):
ourselves, that I can love mybody and be in the process of
changing it.
I do think, though, you have tohave some safety boundaries
around that, because I think wecan very quickly fall into
patterns that have been verygrooved over many, many years
(21:15):
and that can almost be sort ofan excuse you give yourself when
really you're doing somebehaviors that aren't the best
for you.
So I caution people to keepthemselves in check with that.
It's your body, do with it whatyou want.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
It's about the compassion and I think
compassion is the energy that Ihave now, like married ambition
with.
Because I can have compassionfor the moment, I can have
acceptance for where I'm at.
I can also be a dreamer, like Ican, you know, want for more,
and I think a lot about you knowhow people do struggle in the
(21:53):
new year I think next year, tobe honest with you, I think in
leadership, community plusauthenticity and being just.
In the age where we will haveAI everywhere, realness will
prevail and I just think it'sgoing to be the counterforce.
But for people who want to getinvolved with um you've been a
(22:13):
part of a lot of things like arethere real tools or communities
or anything that you couldrecommend so that, if people
want to have anything to do with, like improving their
confidence or making you know apositive change in the community
, what would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, I mean being in community with others is so key
, I think, especially if youhave felt other in your life at
all like whatever that means.
I think finding finding yourpeople is a huge key to being
able to really unlock your powerwithin your voice and yourself,
and it really is transformative.
(22:50):
I mean I have found mine onsocial media.
I mean social media gets a verybad rap but it really can do a
lot of good.
I have people that I follow andI'm in communication with from
all over now, All over the world.
That brings such perspective tothe work that I do and not only
(23:16):
do you feel seen by each other,but you're really able to
support each other and sort ofgalvanize thoughts and make
things happen.
I mean, when I got this job onbreakfast television that curve,
community, body, neutral, body,positive I mean they came out
(23:37):
loud like they were sosupportive, I mean across the
board.
It was a very lovely welcome butbut I was very touched by how
much that community showed upfor me.
So I think as much as you maybegive to a community you're
looking for, they will also giveback, like there's.
(23:59):
There's real lovely give andtake.
So in terms of you know moretangible things on social media,
I mean follow at Meredith shop.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Absolutely everyone.
By the way, I think that I havestruggled so much on social
media in what I'll call editmode, meaning I want to put
something out.
I'm worried about what peoplewill say.
Like I have this, you know,like these voices around me,
which they are, I'm breakingthem this year.
They're going away and it'sjust going to be back into, like
(24:32):
freedom in the post.
And when you do that, like Ithis is what you're saying, is
how I'm here, just like it itcomes back and every you give
permission for everyone else tomove into that space, to your
posts are just their, theirnatural, their authentically you
, and that's that's the energythat I resonate with.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, that's just the best, Thank you, I mean, that's
what I hope for, but it'scertainly not where I started.
Like it's always awkward, likeyou have this sort of who do you
think you are voices going?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
on.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And like why does anyone care about what you think
in this moment or that moment?
Or or is that a few too manydresses that you're posting?
Like there's all kinds of stuffthat can start to happen, right
.
But my thing with, with, withsocials and how I sort of tend
to run my squares of theinternet is like is it?
Is it, is it funny, is ithelpful?
(25:24):
Is it just gorgeous?
Is it just hot?
You know, yeah, yeah, and andthose, if I can hit all three,
great, and if you know there's acouple, you know I think that
works.
But the, the other thing too,is, is sure, post away.
But social media is a two waystreet.
I mean the amount of times Ispend in my DMs.
(25:44):
Hmm, you know, sarah has becomea great friend for supply at
she's in her DM.
She's got 2 million peoplefollowing her.
She spends so much time in herDMs.
I don't have any or as manypeople following me, but I do
too.
I mean we have a lot ofconversations, because it's not
just a post.
Look at me.
It's like how does this hit you?
Like what are we?
(26:05):
How are we in conversation witheach other?
I think you know, sometimes myfiancee, rodney Bowers is like
Are you well?
Who are you talking to now?
And you know, before bed I'lldo, I'll respond to you know 50
messages or something, and Iwake up in the morning or I'm in
, you know in the back of anUber, whatever, because you know
you gotta find the fun.
You gotta find the fun in inthat space as well.
(26:27):
So if you follow me, I mean I'mhighlighting lots of people
that I love in terms of you knowthe work that they're doing,
the voices that that they'rethey're using, and what's
phenomenal now is with the showlike breakfast television.
I mean I can, I can put some ofthose voices on traditional
broadcast and then we reallystart going here, because it's
like okay, well, let's, let'sreally move, and I've been the
(26:52):
benefactor of so much help andinspo, and you know, from people
in this media landscape inCanada.
It's a real, it's just a realpleasure to be able to sort of
be a part of that now and to dothat in in my own way.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Meredith, you just you summed up the vision for me,
so thank you so much for beinghere.
This has been mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You are very good at this.
You should have no secondthought about.
You know, is this a directionto move in?
You absolutely should.
You ask beautifullythoughtfully curated questions
and yeah, this has been a real,this has been a real treat and I
think, if I can leave, you know, everybody with with a feeling
(27:38):
as they move into a new year,first of all, you know this new
year, new you.
Let's think of it as new yearmore of you, right?
Let's go more of ourselves intoeverything that we do.
And it's so worth the, the, thepractice of of showing up
authentically as yourself,because it is the hardest,
(28:00):
easiest thing you will ever do.
It is so hard to do until it'snot, and then it is the easiest
it's.
If it's not easy yet, just keepshowing up, because it will all
of a sudden kind of get easy,and then you'll think, oh my
gosh, why the heck was I tryingto contort myself to someone
(28:22):
different?
It's going to be so much easier, and then the effort will
lessen and then you will be ableto really show up
wholeheartedly and you'll you'llchange the spaces that you're
in.
I think that's just how itworks.
Yeah, thank you, jen, forhaving me.
This has been a true pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
We will wrap on that, Meredith.
Thank you for joining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
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Dateline NBC
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