December 3, 2023 • 17 mins
Have you ever been inspired by a leader who tapped into your creativity and innovation, leaving you feeling empowered and motivated? In this episode, you’ll be inspired by Shannon Mulligan, founder of The Freelance Squad. Join us as Shannon shares how she incorporates humour into business, strengthening connections with freelancers and clients, and reshaping how ideas are sparked.
Key Takeaways:
A new model for collaboration and innovating: Immerse yourself in the 'hive mind' of freelance design, and grasp its impact on creativity and competition.
Staying Authentic and Joyful: Learn effective strategies for maintaining authenticity and discovering joy in your professional journey
Navigating Entrepreneurial Challenges: Master strategies to handle the responsibilities and challenges of entrepreneurship, including imposter syndrome, while staying true to your vision.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, freelancer, designer, or simply in search of creativity amidst the hustle - this episode is not to be missed. Tune in, get inspired, and remember to subscribe for more insightful content.
To learn more about The Freelance Squad
https://www.thefreelancesquad.com
For us for actionable tools & tips for your leadership journey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen (00:00):
On the Grit and Grace podcast.
We shine the spotlight on thestories behind the leader.
What are great leaders doing tofoster creativity within their
teams.
Shannon (00:10):
Bringing in a bit of joy makes people more excited,
and that's what I want tocultivate around me.
Jen (00:17):
Joining us today is Shannon Mulligan, founder of the
Freelance Squad.
In this episode, we exploreharnessing creativity during
high-pressure, busy times.
Shannon also shares insight onher innovative model for how
freelancers and companies accesscreative genius through what
she calls the hive mind.
Tune in for a thought-provokingdiscussion on how we can all
(00:39):
tap into our joy amidst thehustle.
Shannon, thank you so much forbeing here with us.
Shannon (00:47):
Yeah, thank you for taking something that seems safe
, like an audio podcast.
We're like no, we're going tofilm you too, so you also have
to worry about what you looklike, you look so beautiful.
Jen (00:57):
You look awesome, so I am so excited to dive into this
topic.
When I think creativity,leadership, comedy, it seemed
like an unusual combination tome.
However, you are the expert inall of this, and so I'm really
curious how has comedyinfluenced your entrepreneurial
(01:18):
journey?
Shannon (01:19):
You know, coming from a background where I did, you
know, comedy lessons and made ita big part of my life, socially
and for volunteer work as well.
It's just such a nice way, Ithink, to bring a little bit
more joy into everything, andparticularly right now when you
have, you know, the world isfalling apart and we are like
(01:40):
trying to patch it up as it'scrumbling around us.
We need that levity ineverything, because I don't
think many of us want to beworking Like I love my job and I
love what I do, but if I couldjust sit and read books and eat
expensive cheese all day, Iwould pick that, yes.
So, you know, bringing in a bitof joy and this bit of
(02:01):
lightness into what we're doingmakes people more excited and
want to do it more, and that'sreally what I want to.
You know, like cultivate aroundme.
Jen (02:12):
Well, let's just talk a little bit about your business.
So the Freelance Squad andspecifically kind of how you got
here.
Shannon (02:19):
As you know, I was laid off during the early wave of
COVID.
Yes, I was six months pregnantat the time.
All the daycares were shut down, my toddler was at home and I
was like, what do I do?
I can't look for a new job andI felt at odds.
I didn't like not having a jobthat I could go back to and I
was so stressed with everythingand I was really fortunate that
(02:40):
another connection brought mesome freelance copy work, and
freelancing was something I'dalways wanted to try, but I was
never going to quit a full-timerole to give it a shot.
And as I was doing this work, Ihad people coming to me and
saying like, oh, you know, welove this email copy.
Do you know somebody who coulddo the design on this?
Or do you know somebody whoalso builds websites?
I was like I do know thosepeople and you know, if you
(03:01):
think about like the MalcolmGladwell connector thing that
has always really resonated withme where you know, I know
somebody who can make a will foryou, I know somebody who can
give you tap dancing lessons andI want to build up those people
, yeah.
And then the freelancers that Iwas talking to were sharing
that they love what they do.
They were really good at it,but they hated those cold calls,
(03:23):
they hated reaching out onLinkedIn and I actually really
like those things and so puttingit together is like I'll just
do that part for you and thatwas really fun, but I told
myself I would do it once mykids were both in school, which
they are not yet.
Okay so a premature leap.
Yes, it just turned around andall of a sudden I was just doing
(03:44):
it and it just kind of startedto grow on its own and evolve.
But I never set out with theintention of wanting to be an
entrepreneur, wanting to be aleader, wanting to have a
business, and I think in someways that has helped me In what
ways do you think it's helpedyou, though?
I think that I don't have thisintention of this is going to be
(04:04):
I'm going to grow this untilit's a $3 billion business or
I'm going to work on this untilI can sell it.
That's not my goal.
My goal is to make enough moneyso that I can do the things I
want to with my family and sothat I can help other
freelancers do the things thatthey want to do with their lives
.
I work with a lot of moms, alot of parents, a lot of people
(04:29):
who you know live with theirparents and they're looking to
make that first down payment orsave up enough for rent, and I
really like creating thosecommunities and empowering those
people to be able to do thethings they want to do.
And like that's it for me.
Jen (04:45):
How many freelancers are a part of the freelance squad
today?
Shannon (04:49):
There are probably a core group about 10 people who
we work with, I would say,almost full time.
We probably do about 70% oftheir hours total freelance, and
then there are another 20people that we go to and it's
probably half that, and thenthere are maybe another 20
people that if we have workedwith here and there for
(05:10):
different projects.
Jen (05:12):
And how are companies thinking about sourcing
freelance versus doing thingsin-house?
And you know how's the worldchanging a little bit around all
of this.
It's twofold.
Shannon (05:20):
When layoffs happen, we get people reaching out to us
who want a freelance.
Sometimes that's even that'sother freelancers who are
working with them or itsemployees.
Sometimes our own clients havebeen laid off and then have
joined us as freelancers, whichto me is really special that
they liked working with us thatmuch.
So there's this influx of newtalent that we get to work with,
(05:42):
which is great because that'spart of our business, and then
it also opens this interestinggap for businesses, because they
still have work they need toget done.
They just don't have the headcount anymore, and that, I think
, is the perfect opportunity forwhat we do, where we're not
coming in and you know saying,oh, I'm solely a copywriter and
that's what you need now,because they don't, they need
(06:04):
the six marketing people theyjust laid off, they need design
and copy and an email person andsomebody who's going to update
the website, and so that's kindof the beauty of what we can do,
where we can come in and justpulse people in and out to do
those specific things and theneither keep working with you or
just say, like great, you're upto speed here.
Jen (06:21):
Well how do you guys stay ahead of the curve, especially
in today's landscape withtechnology, ai?
How do you guys stay inspired?
Shannon (06:28):
So this is one of the cool things that I didn't plan
for but have discovered alongthe way and want to see more of,
because freelancing is soisolating.
It's a lot of work.
To make sure that you are goingto the conferences, you are
listening to the podcast,reading the blogs about these
new tools yeah, because yourbalance between you have to find
new clients, you have to do thework you already have, somehow
(06:49):
find a way to promote yourself,and then there's this consistent
learning you want to do andthat's very hard to maintain
Because we have this communityof freelancers.
You can kind of take a breakfrom any one of those things at
any given time.
We just had three designers onewho lives in Hamilton, one who
lives in North York, one wholives in the States all from the
(07:11):
freelance squad, didn't knoweach other before.
They all got together for aconference in Toronto a couple
of weekends ago and we'resharing the information that
they learned there and we get tobring that back to the
freelance squad and again domore of this knowledge sharing,
so that it's like a hive mindbut you're still an independent
freelancer, and so that's beenreally neat to see people
(07:33):
bringing these pieces and newtechnologies or new fonts that
they really like, new softwareprograms that are really time
saving and just collectivelybenefit from it when you have
the hive mind.
Jen (07:43):
They're actually not looking at it through the prism
of their business one businessproblem, and so perhaps you can
see a bigger spectrum ofinnovation.
Shannon (07:52):
Yeah, and there's been so many neat little things with
it.
So if you hire a copywriter, forexample, and maybe they're
struggling or you're not seeingeye to eye or you just don't
like their work, you're kind ofstuck and you either have to go
find somebody else or keepworking with them at it.
But because we have this hivemind and our goal is more the
(08:14):
end product versus who's workingat it, you can take this and
I've done this as a copywriterwith our other writers and then
like guys, I just I'm stuck onthis headline, can you just help
me spin up a few differentoptions for this one?
And then you'll get inspiredand then you'll deliver that and
the client gets a much betterproduct at the end of the day.
And they don't they don't carewho's putting that together,
(08:35):
yeah, they just want still thatperson-to-person contact and the
best end result possible.
And that's been really nice,minus this competitive
atmosphere of you.
Know well, I don't want to letanother copywriter in because
then they're gonna take over myclient or take over my work.
That just doesn't exist andit's been such a beautiful
little piece of creating thisthat I didn't expect when.
Jen (08:58):
I started it.
I think it's a whole differentmodel on how to solve creativity
in an innovative way.
I've been thinking a lot aboutwhere leadership needs to go
with creativity, just because Ithink the speed of iteration
that we have to all move into ismoving into a whole new level
and I don't think we're gonnahave the luxury of I have
(09:19):
writer's block.
We're not gonna be in that,it's so true.
Shannon (09:22):
We're not gonna be there anymore, right?
This is why fractional CMOs areexploding right now.
And you're right, it's thatlevel of iteration and you can't
.
Just no brand can rest on theirlaurels anymore, yeah, and just
keep putting out what they'reputting out, and companies no
longer want to see that.
They don't want to see likegreat, we made the same targets
as last year, good job everybody.
(09:42):
They want to see 2x, 3x, yearover year or month over month,
and at some point, that's notsustainable, the way that you're
doing it, and it's a problemthat needs to be fixed.
Jen (09:53):
Yeah, how do you see this kind of influx and tipping point
where people are just gonna gethit with so much more content
but it's not necessarily highquality content how do you
invent, how do you create, howdo you take risks?
And I really think that's theparadigm that great leaders,
(10:14):
great companies, great brandvoices might have to go into,
versus back to the we can't reston our laurels, or yeah, just
because this thing is moreefficient doesn't mean we don't
have to go to our next level.
Shannon (10:27):
AI hasn't always been there, but I mean, I use a
thesaurus constantly.
Yeah, I use a rhymingdictionary in my work.
Ai is not so different fromthose pieces.
It's just a start to get youthere.
And then you have to pushthrough and you open up and you
find those creative moments.
And maybe for some peoplethat's taking a walk or doing a
workout or like watching TV andzoning out for a little bit.
(10:51):
Yeah, you still have to findways to be creative on your own
and that is still work, and Ithink that's where it's.
You have to give yourself thespace for that and if you are on
a 2x, 3x every year, you don'thave that moment to allow space
for creativity to happen,because you can't push it.
It's not going to be as good.
Jen (11:11):
Well, when you kind of work with a lot of these brands and
companies through the lens ofleadership, what are great
leaders doing to fostercreativity within their teams
and pull everyone up to kind ofthat level of thinking and
innovation?
Shannon (11:24):
I will say, without a doubt, it is the way that they
treat people Okay, and it's themotivation and positive
reinforcement.
And I don't want to sayconstructive criticism because I
feel like that's such a commonterm and like it's not even that
positive, like positivecriticism maybe, but I know that
(11:44):
I do my best when people tellme what they love and then
they're like I'd love to seethese parts improved, how can we
make these work here?
And that's when I'm like oh,just you watch, I will wow you.
And I want to be that kind ofmotivator to pull out that
creativity and inspire people towant to create that better work
for themselves.
(12:06):
And I have certain clients whowork one way and certain clients
who work another way and for me, the ease that freelancers work
on those projects who wants toput their hand up to work on
those projects, and the speed,the efficiency, like everything,
is so much more improved whenthere is this layer of
positivity around it and itmakes it faster and cheaper and
(12:28):
better.
Yeah, I have freelancers whosend me a headline of a project
I'm not even working on andthey're like get a load of this.
And those are my favoritemoments because they're so proud
of what they do.
Yeah, and we know that peopleare going to love them and the
result is better.
I love them and the result isbetter that secret that you just
gave for leaders?
Jen (12:45):
I actually was have been listening a lot to Rick Rubin
these days talk about how to dothis with artists, and it's
actually the same model.
So the beginning, which is Ireally love these parts, right.
Whether you're talking about thebusiness copy or the artist
song.
Now let's look at these.
He says these lyrics it's lesspersonal on totally what
somebody did and you hone in onthe work and you're like, but
(13:08):
how could we, you know, tinker,experiment, innovate, and you
focus the energy there in apositive way and then that
becomes the way that it thengoes to the next level.
Shannon (13:19):
It's the we that you used in that phrase to where
it's not.
You need to make this better.
It's how a question?
How can we make these partsbetter?
Because anything creative isintrinsically personal.
It's these little beautifulnuggets from your own brain that
you are so excited to sharewith people, and if you have
somebody who doesn't love them,they're not always going to do
it's really hard not to takethat personally, and so that we
(13:41):
approach that phrasing in it asa question is there such small
changes that can produce suchdramatic results?
Jen (13:49):
in business, in art, no matter what it is.
Where do you think teams?
What are they doing?
Well, to create safety andtrust amongst that kind of forum
so that people can do it overand over again, because it is
quite a vulnerable experience.
Shannon (14:06):
Like we all have this the greatest CEOs in the world.
Not everything has been a homerun, and to hear those moments
of like well, I really have thisone is like oh, I have the
freedom to now do that too.
Jen (14:19):
So Brennan Brown does it best right when she just talks
about vulnerability so openlyand honestly, and then that
allows us all to kind of rush inand be our authentic selves and
whatever we're doing, whetherwe're the CEO or whether we're,
you know, on the marketingdesign team or otherwise podcast
or now twists and turns alongthe way.
(14:39):
Shannon, I guess the onequestion I have just thinking
about teams a little bit morehere.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthis kind of concept like the
moment it clicks.
You know, and you kind ofworking through that problem,
you're looking at somethingcomplicated and then all of a
sudden, whether it's a marketingcampaign or product innovation,
great teams talk about likethis moment it clicks.
(15:01):
Do you have any insight on,like, what goes into that?
Like what do you see happen onthat front?
Shannon (15:08):
You know we talk about going with our gut on this and I
am such a gut person and that'sthe light bulb moment is
because you know when it works,you feel so good about it.
It's that full body excitement.
It's kind of like we got it.
Jen (15:19):
It's like we got it moment everybody has that you can see
it in every person's face or theslack emojis that they're using
, I think everything that we'retalking about I kind of think
about it sums up in like a youneed a community that you can do
it with others.
100 seems to be a bit of thesecret sauce here.
Be, you need an environmentwhere you can literally fail
(15:40):
vulnerability and you know yourback.
And also you need acommunication style that you
feel safe in right now.
How people give feedback, howpeople deliver feedback, the
mood, the temperature, all thatleaders need to be mindful of.
And then I really love thismodel of how we innovate and
(16:01):
solve differently in a new kindof.
It's kind of like thisiterative cycle that that moves
faster because you're able toriff like a band with other
people.
Shannon (16:12):
That you're talking about a freelance squad, it's
like.
Jen (16:14):
It's like a band that's riffs off each other versus one
person creating the music jazzbaby yeah, for some reason I'm
into music and creativity andcomedy with you.
This has been an amazingconversation.
I have been riveted by yourinsight.
I could talk to you all day.
Well, listen, if people want tofind more about the freelance
(16:38):
squad, where do they go?
Shannon (16:40):
We have our new website launching, which is created by
some of the freelancers on ourteam, so it's just the freelance
squad calm, very complicated.
Yeah, that's the best place tofind us and I think on there.
You know, you'll get thecontact there, but you'll also
get such a feel for who we areand the values that are
important to us, because wewrote them right on the page.
So, yeah, that's the best wayto find us.
Jen (17:01):
Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
It's been such a treat to haveyou want.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you for joining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
On the Grit and Grace podcast.
We shine the spotlight on thestories behind the leader.
What are great leaders doing tofoster creativity within their
teams.
Shannon (00:10):
Bringing in a bit of joy makes people more excited,
and that's what I want tocultivate around me.
Jen (00:17):
Joining us today is Shannon Mulligan, founder of the
Freelance Squad.
In this episode, we exploreharnessing creativity during
high-pressure, busy times.
Shannon also shares insight onher innovative model for how
freelancers and companies accesscreative genius through what
she calls the hive mind.
Tune in for a thought-provokingdiscussion on how we can all
(00:39):
tap into our joy amidst thehustle.
Shannon, thank you so much forbeing here with us.
Shannon (00:47):
Yeah, thank you for taking something that seems safe
, like an audio podcast.
We're like no, we're going tofilm you too, so you also have
to worry about what you looklike, you look so beautiful.
Jen (00:57):
You look awesome, so I am so excited to dive into this
topic.
When I think creativity,leadership, comedy, it seemed
like an unusual combination tome.
However, you are the expert inall of this, and so I'm really
curious how has comedyinfluenced your entrepreneurial
(01:18):
journey?
Shannon (01:19):
You know, coming from a background where I did, you
know, comedy lessons and made ita big part of my life, socially
and for volunteer work as well.
It's just such a nice way, Ithink, to bring a little bit
more joy into everything, andparticularly right now when you
have, you know, the world isfalling apart and we are like
(01:40):
trying to patch it up as it'scrumbling around us.
We need that levity ineverything, because I don't
think many of us want to beworking Like I love my job and I
love what I do, but if I couldjust sit and read books and eat
expensive cheese all day, Iwould pick that, yes.
So, you know, bringing in a bitof joy and this bit of
(02:01):
lightness into what we're doingmakes people more excited and
want to do it more, and that'sreally what I want to.
You know, like cultivate aroundme.
Jen (02:12):
Well, let's just talk a little bit about your business.
So the Freelance Squad andspecifically kind of how you got
here.
Shannon (02:19):
As you know, I was laid off during the early wave of
COVID.
Yes, I was six months pregnantat the time.
All the daycares were shut down, my toddler was at home and I
was like, what do I do?
I can't look for a new job andI felt at odds.
I didn't like not having a jobthat I could go back to and I
was so stressed with everythingand I was really fortunate that
(02:40):
another connection brought mesome freelance copy work, and
freelancing was something I'dalways wanted to try, but I was
never going to quit a full-timerole to give it a shot.
And as I was doing this work, Ihad people coming to me and
saying like, oh, you know, welove this email copy.
Do you know somebody who coulddo the design on this?
Or do you know somebody whoalso builds websites?
I was like I do know thosepeople and you know, if you
(03:01):
think about like the MalcolmGladwell connector thing that
has always really resonated withme where you know, I know
somebody who can make a will foryou, I know somebody who can
give you tap dancing lessons andI want to build up those people
, yeah.
And then the freelancers that Iwas talking to were sharing
that they love what they do.
They were really good at it,but they hated those cold calls,
(03:23):
they hated reaching out onLinkedIn and I actually really
like those things and so puttingit together is like I'll just
do that part for you and thatwas really fun, but I told
myself I would do it once mykids were both in school, which
they are not yet.
Okay so a premature leap.
Yes, it just turned around andall of a sudden I was just doing
(03:44):
it and it just kind of startedto grow on its own and evolve.
But I never set out with theintention of wanting to be an
entrepreneur, wanting to be aleader, wanting to have a
business, and I think in someways that has helped me In what
ways do you think it's helpedyou, though?
I think that I don't have thisintention of this is going to be
(04:04):
I'm going to grow this untilit's a $3 billion business or
I'm going to work on this untilI can sell it.
That's not my goal.
My goal is to make enough moneyso that I can do the things I
want to with my family and sothat I can help other
freelancers do the things thatthey want to do with their lives
.
I work with a lot of moms, alot of parents, a lot of people
(04:29):
who you know live with theirparents and they're looking to
make that first down payment orsave up enough for rent, and I
really like creating thosecommunities and empowering those
people to be able to do thethings they want to do.
And like that's it for me.
Jen (04:45):
How many freelancers are a part of the freelance squad
today?
Shannon (04:49):
There are probably a core group about 10 people who
we work with, I would say,almost full time.
We probably do about 70% oftheir hours total freelance, and
then there are another 20people that we go to and it's
probably half that, and thenthere are maybe another 20
people that if we have workedwith here and there for
(05:10):
different projects.
Jen (05:12):
And how are companies thinking about sourcing
freelance versus doing thingsin-house?
And you know how's the worldchanging a little bit around all
of this.
It's twofold.
Shannon (05:20):
When layoffs happen, we get people reaching out to us
who want a freelance.
Sometimes that's even that'sother freelancers who are
working with them or itsemployees.
Sometimes our own clients havebeen laid off and then have
joined us as freelancers, whichto me is really special that
they liked working with us thatmuch.
So there's this influx of newtalent that we get to work with,
(05:42):
which is great because that'spart of our business, and then
it also opens this interestinggap for businesses, because they
still have work they need toget done.
They just don't have the headcount anymore, and that, I think
, is the perfect opportunity forwhat we do, where we're not
coming in and you know saying,oh, I'm solely a copywriter and
that's what you need now,because they don't, they need
(06:04):
the six marketing people theyjust laid off, they need design
and copy and an email person andsomebody who's going to update
the website, and so that's kindof the beauty of what we can do,
where we can come in and justpulse people in and out to do
those specific things and theneither keep working with you or
just say, like great, you're upto speed here.
Jen (06:21):
Well how do you guys stay ahead of the curve, especially
in today's landscape withtechnology, ai?
How do you guys stay inspired?
Shannon (06:28):
So this is one of the cool things that I didn't plan
for but have discovered alongthe way and want to see more of,
because freelancing is soisolating.
It's a lot of work.
To make sure that you are goingto the conferences, you are
listening to the podcast,reading the blogs about these
new tools yeah, because yourbalance between you have to find
new clients, you have to do thework you already have, somehow
(06:49):
find a way to promote yourself,and then there's this consistent
learning you want to do andthat's very hard to maintain
Because we have this communityof freelancers.
You can kind of take a breakfrom any one of those things at
any given time.
We just had three designers onewho lives in Hamilton, one who
lives in North York, one wholives in the States all from the
(07:11):
freelance squad, didn't knoweach other before.
They all got together for aconference in Toronto a couple
of weekends ago and we'resharing the information that
they learned there and we get tobring that back to the
freelance squad and again domore of this knowledge sharing,
so that it's like a hive mindbut you're still an independent
freelancer, and so that's beenreally neat to see people
(07:33):
bringing these pieces and newtechnologies or new fonts that
they really like, new softwareprograms that are really time
saving and just collectivelybenefit from it when you have
the hive mind.
Jen (07:43):
They're actually not looking at it through the prism
of their business one businessproblem, and so perhaps you can
see a bigger spectrum ofinnovation.
Shannon (07:52):
Yeah, and there's been so many neat little things with
it.
So if you hire a copywriter, forexample, and maybe they're
struggling or you're not seeingeye to eye or you just don't
like their work, you're kind ofstuck and you either have to go
find somebody else or keepworking with them at it.
But because we have this hivemind and our goal is more the
(08:14):
end product versus who's workingat it, you can take this and
I've done this as a copywriterwith our other writers and then
like guys, I just I'm stuck onthis headline, can you just help
me spin up a few differentoptions for this one?
And then you'll get inspiredand then you'll deliver that and
the client gets a much betterproduct at the end of the day.
And they don't they don't carewho's putting that together,
(08:35):
yeah, they just want still thatperson-to-person contact and the
best end result possible.
And that's been really nice,minus this competitive
atmosphere of you.
Know well, I don't want to letanother copywriter in because
then they're gonna take over myclient or take over my work.
That just doesn't exist andit's been such a beautiful
little piece of creating thisthat I didn't expect when.
Jen (08:58):
I started it.
I think it's a whole differentmodel on how to solve creativity
in an innovative way.
I've been thinking a lot aboutwhere leadership needs to go
with creativity, just because Ithink the speed of iteration
that we have to all move into ismoving into a whole new level
and I don't think we're gonnahave the luxury of I have
(09:19):
writer's block.
We're not gonna be in that,it's so true.
Shannon (09:22):
We're not gonna be there anymore, right?
This is why fractional CMOs areexploding right now.
And you're right, it's thatlevel of iteration and you can't
.
Just no brand can rest on theirlaurels anymore, yeah, and just
keep putting out what they'reputting out, and companies no
longer want to see that.
They don't want to see likegreat, we made the same targets
as last year, good job everybody.
(09:42):
They want to see 2x, 3x, yearover year or month over month,
and at some point, that's notsustainable, the way that you're
doing it, and it's a problemthat needs to be fixed.
Jen (09:53):
Yeah, how do you see this kind of influx and tipping point
where people are just gonna gethit with so much more content
but it's not necessarily highquality content how do you
invent, how do you create, howdo you take risks?
And I really think that's theparadigm that great leaders,
(10:14):
great companies, great brandvoices might have to go into,
versus back to the we can't reston our laurels, or yeah, just
because this thing is moreefficient doesn't mean we don't
have to go to our next level.
Shannon (10:27):
AI hasn't always been there, but I mean, I use a
thesaurus constantly.
Yeah, I use a rhymingdictionary in my work.
Ai is not so different fromthose pieces.
It's just a start to get youthere.
And then you have to pushthrough and you open up and you
find those creative moments.
And maybe for some peoplethat's taking a walk or doing a
workout or like watching TV andzoning out for a little bit.
(10:51):
Yeah, you still have to findways to be creative on your own
and that is still work, and Ithink that's where it's.
You have to give yourself thespace for that and if you are on
a 2x, 3x every year, you don'thave that moment to allow space
for creativity to happen,because you can't push it.
It's not going to be as good.
Jen (11:11):
Well, when you kind of work with a lot of these brands and
companies through the lens ofleadership, what are great
leaders doing to fostercreativity within their teams
and pull everyone up to kind ofthat level of thinking and
innovation?
Shannon (11:24):
I will say, without a doubt, it is the way that they
treat people Okay, and it's themotivation and positive
reinforcement.
And I don't want to sayconstructive criticism because I
feel like that's such a commonterm and like it's not even that
positive, like positivecriticism maybe, but I know that
(11:44):
I do my best when people tellme what they love and then
they're like I'd love to seethese parts improved, how can we
make these work here?
And that's when I'm like oh,just you watch, I will wow you.
And I want to be that kind ofmotivator to pull out that
creativity and inspire people towant to create that better work
for themselves.
(12:06):
And I have certain clients whowork one way and certain clients
who work another way and for me, the ease that freelancers work
on those projects who wants toput their hand up to work on
those projects, and the speed,the efficiency, like everything,
is so much more improved whenthere is this layer of
positivity around it and itmakes it faster and cheaper and
(12:28):
better.
Yeah, I have freelancers whosend me a headline of a project
I'm not even working on andthey're like get a load of this.
And those are my favoritemoments because they're so proud
of what they do.
Yeah, and we know that peopleare going to love them and the
result is better.
I love them and the result isbetter that secret that you just
gave for leaders?
Jen (12:45):
I actually was have been listening a lot to Rick Rubin
these days talk about how to dothis with artists, and it's
actually the same model.
So the beginning, which is Ireally love these parts, right.
Whether you're talking about thebusiness copy or the artist
song.
Now let's look at these.
He says these lyrics it's lesspersonal on totally what
somebody did and you hone in onthe work and you're like, but
(13:08):
how could we, you know, tinker,experiment, innovate, and you
focus the energy there in apositive way and then that
becomes the way that it thengoes to the next level.
Shannon (13:19):
It's the we that you used in that phrase to where
it's not.
You need to make this better.
It's how a question?
How can we make these partsbetter?
Because anything creative isintrinsically personal.
It's these little beautifulnuggets from your own brain that
you are so excited to sharewith people, and if you have
somebody who doesn't love them,they're not always going to do
it's really hard not to takethat personally, and so that we
(13:41):
approach that phrasing in it asa question is there such small
changes that can produce suchdramatic results?
Jen (13:49):
in business, in art, no matter what it is.
Where do you think teams?
What are they doing?
Well, to create safety andtrust amongst that kind of forum
so that people can do it overand over again, because it is
quite a vulnerable experience.
Shannon (14:06):
Like we all have this the greatest CEOs in the world.
Not everything has been a homerun, and to hear those moments
of like well, I really have thisone is like oh, I have the
freedom to now do that too.
Jen (14:19):
So Brennan Brown does it best right when she just talks
about vulnerability so openlyand honestly, and then that
allows us all to kind of rush inand be our authentic selves and
whatever we're doing, whetherwe're the CEO or whether we're,
you know, on the marketingdesign team or otherwise podcast
or now twists and turns alongthe way.
(14:39):
Shannon, I guess the onequestion I have just thinking
about teams a little bit morehere.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthis kind of concept like the
moment it clicks.
You know, and you kind ofworking through that problem,
you're looking at somethingcomplicated and then all of a
sudden, whether it's a marketingcampaign or product innovation,
great teams talk about likethis moment it clicks.
(15:01):
Do you have any insight on,like, what goes into that?
Like what do you see happen onthat front?
Shannon (15:08):
You know we talk about going with our gut on this and I
am such a gut person and that'sthe light bulb moment is
because you know when it works,you feel so good about it.
It's that full body excitement.
It's kind of like we got it.
Jen (15:19):
It's like we got it moment everybody has that you can see
it in every person's face or theslack emojis that they're using
, I think everything that we'retalking about I kind of think
about it sums up in like a youneed a community that you can do
it with others.
100 seems to be a bit of thesecret sauce here.
Be, you need an environmentwhere you can literally fail
(15:40):
vulnerability and you know yourback.
And also you need acommunication style that you
feel safe in right now.
How people give feedback, howpeople deliver feedback, the
mood, the temperature, all thatleaders need to be mindful of.
And then I really love thismodel of how we innovate and
(16:01):
solve differently in a new kindof.
It's kind of like thisiterative cycle that that moves
faster because you're able toriff like a band with other
people.
Shannon (16:12):
That you're talking about a freelance squad, it's
like.
Jen (16:14):
It's like a band that's riffs off each other versus one
person creating the music jazzbaby yeah, for some reason I'm
into music and creativity andcomedy with you.
This has been an amazingconversation.
I have been riveted by yourinsight.
I could talk to you all day.
Well, listen, if people want tofind more about the freelance
(16:38):
squad, where do they go?
Shannon (16:40):
We have our new website launching, which is created by
some of the freelancers on ourteam, so it's just the freelance
squad calm, very complicated.
Yeah, that's the best place tofind us and I think on there.
You know, you'll get thecontact there, but you'll also
get such a feel for who we areand the values that are
important to us, because wewrote them right on the page.
So, yeah, that's the best wayto find us.
Jen (17:01):
Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
It's been such a treat to haveyou want.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you for joining us.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn, where we
transform the wisdom from ourpodcast into practical tips,
tools and takeaways for yourleadership journey.
Find us at gritgracepodcast.
See you next week.
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