#001: Regie Hamm

"If you are being authentically yourself, you're giving us something we need." - Regie Hamm

What would you do if a lifetime of dreams came true only to be taken away in a matter of moments?

That's what happened to Regie Hamm (Facebook, Patreon). 

From being a child performer to being signed to the largest record label in the world. With over four hundred songs recorded, twenty-one number one hits, he’s been nominated for multiple Grammy Awards, written five books, three of which have been adopted to screenplays and his blog is read by thousands of people globally. 

From performing on stage at age five, getting trapped in a ring with a bull after a show, dropping out of college to chase his dreams, in this episode Regie talks about his rise to the top and the realization that none of us are in control of anything, especially when outside forces are introduced into our lives. 

Regie talks about how a baby girl with one of rarest conditions on earth taught him that none of us are less than, every single person matters and by being our true authentic self, we can change the world.

Regie is a strong advocate for adoption as well as an ambassador for the Angelman Syndrome community.

Head over to TheGroovePodcast.com to get more information.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the groove with Devin Devin
Pense.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
You have to take risks that will be
disappointments and failures anddisasters as a result of taking
these risks.
This task was acquainted to youand if you do not find a way, no
great moments are born, greatopportunity and that's what you

(00:26):
have here in the end.
That's all we really are.
I just stories.
Stories are what our lives aremade up, stories, how we
remember people and stories makeus feel a little less alone in
the world.

Devin Pense (00:42):
Hello everyone.
This is Devin Pense and welcometo the groove podcast where I
interview people who'veexperienced great loss or
failure and the pivotal momentsthat changed the course of
history in their lives.
My guest on the show today isReggie ham.
Reggie literally grew up in themusic business and as an
accomplished musician,songwriter, artist, author, and

(01:05):
blogger.
He's had over 400 songs recordedwith 21 number one heads.
He's been nominated for multipleGrammys, written five books,
three of which have been adoptedinto screenplays and his blog is
read by thousands of peopleglobally.
He's a strong advocate foradoption as well as an
ambassador for the angel mansyndrome community and his

(01:27):
foundation.
The angel wings foundation isdedicated to helping with day to
day issues surrounding peoplewith disabilities and their
caregivers.
You can find him on Facebook atReggie ham.
That's one G and two M's.
You can also check out and joinhis
[e-mail] blah blah blogger.

(01:51):
I'm honored to have him as thefirst guest on the groove
podcast.
And without further ado, Reggiehamm.
Welcome to the Groove podcast.

Regie Hamm (01:59):
Dude.
Thank you.
It's such an honor to be thefirst guest.
Uh, well there was only onefirst guest and it, you know, it
had to be you so well, if ithadn't been me, I would have
been, you know, I would havebeen upset with you dad.
We've been friends a long time.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah.
So in full disclosure, uh, Ithink we have to let everyone
know how long we've known eachother.
What's it been like?
Well, we've known each othersince we were 18, so since we
were 18.
And so that's a full 10 years,10 years.
That's a long time.
My friend.
That is a long time, 10 yearsplus a few more decades.

(02:33):
So, uh, yeah, in allseriousness, man, you know, a
Reggie has been like a brotherto me all my life and uh,
honored to have you on the showand more, more than anything
else, uh, you have such anamazing story and I want to
share that with, uh, the twopeople who are listening, right?

(02:54):
Which would probably be my momand your mom, but, but either,
you know, let's do it for themoms.
Give it for the moms.
That's right.
There are a lot of differentplaces that we could start on
your storyline, but I thought wecould start fairly early because
you were introduced to music ata very young age.
Um, can you talk about that alittle bit?
Yeah, so, so my dad was, uh, itreally kind of Springs from my

(03:16):
dad.
My dad had this very strangeupbringing, uh, where he was
essentially given to a travelingevangelist when he was 10.
And so he's, he's been doingthis, you know, his whole life.
It's kind of all he reallyknows.
And so by the time I, when I wasborn, when he was 20 and by the
time he was 24, 25, he had afull time, you know, worldwide

(03:39):
traveling ministry and we knowwith a full band and all that.
And I was sort of like theunderstood I started playing.
I don't even know, honestly,Devin, when I started playing
music, I, people ask me, youknow, when did you start?
I was like, I don't know,because I just couldn't, I just
could always play something, youknow, like you just always
there.
Yeah.
It was always there.
You had to pick something up andplay it, you know?

(04:01):
So I, I think I was around five,you know, when I, when I really
started playing and I was theunderstudy for the drummer in
the band.
Uh, and then when I was 10 Ibecame the fulltime drummer.
Dude, wait a second.
Pause right there.
You, when you are 10 years old,you overthrew a grown man.

(04:22):
The whole armor, the, the natureof it changed.
And it was, it was then the hamfamily.
It wasn't the, it had been likethe world challenge singers,
which with other singers andeverything.
And so that all kind of blew upand he uh, you know, he sort of
lost everything and everybodykind of left and, and so it, it
went right.
But he just kind of pulledeverything back to the core

(04:42):
where it was him and my mom andI play drums and w we, we sat in
a music store.
I, I do, this is the honesttruth that we sit in a music
store in Kansas city and taughtmy brother who was eight years
old, taught him how to play twosongs on the base and we let one
smoke on the water.

(05:04):
It should've been, it should'vebeen.
But we taught him two songs onthe base and in the music store.
We left the music store withthat base and drove down to
Denver and did our first gig asthe ham family.
And we did those two songs everynight before my dad preached.
And uh, and that was thebeginning of it.
And then we, we made a record Ithink the next year and then we

(05:25):
learned a bunch of songs and youknow, and w we were, and for the
next, uh, so from the time I was10 until I was 16, I was
traveling with the family mannedand as the drummer and then kind
of at, when my voice changed, Ikind of became the lead singer
sort of.
So, um, you know, and that is, Imean, we were joking earlier
about it.
That's a long time.
I mean, 10 to 16, six years.

(05:48):
Yeah, that's a long time and alot of formidable, you know,
timing.
You're in a formal time of yourlife.
Oh my, my woman, you know.
So you see a lot of stuff, astage I'll tell ya, you know,
there's, you just see a lot ofstuff on the stage.
When did you guys stop?
I mean, when was sort of thequote unquote show over and you,
you moved on to, you know, wasthere any kind of regular life

(06:09):
after that?
Well lenient?
Lenny's, my brother ma, uh, we,we had started bands of our own,
you know, on the side and adude.
Yeah, I've got a newspaperclipping of it in my office.
Uh, our last show as a familywas in, uh, at a bull auction in
South Dakota out in the middleof nowhere.
This is not even a town, it'sjust a, there was just a Quonset

(06:31):
hut out in the middle ofnowhere.
And, um, we set out, uh, they,they put a piece of plywood out
in the middle of the ring andgave us one plug.
And that was our stage and weplayed this show.
Uh, and, and, and we were done.
I was the last person that I wasalways the last guy out because
I carried the, the monitor mixerand that was the last thing to

(06:52):
go in our, you know, strike theway we stripped, struck the
stage.
And, um, so I was the last guyout and I slipped and fell.
I'm laying in the middle of thebull ring and they bring the
first bull out.
So I had to like get up.
Tell me you didn't have red oryet or yellow on or something?
No, but the, but the, but forlike three to five or seconds or

(07:14):
whatever, you know, I'm in the,I'm in the ring with the bull
and I'm scrambling to get out,you know, and it's kinda like
looking at me like, you know,it's getting rid of the charge
or whatever.
And then I, and then I walkoutside of the Quonset and it's
just pouring rain and I've gotmud and you know, you can
imagine what else on me.
And, and I just, I, I threw themonitor mixer in the trailer and

(07:35):
I jumped in the van and I'mlike, and I'll never forget it.
I just said, dad, I'm done withthis.
I don't want to do this anymore.
And well, that was our, that wasour last gig as a, as a family.
And so, you know what, thatthere's two things, you know, a
little did you know that was aforeshadowing of the rest of
your life?
Probably.
Second of all, if you have thatclip, if you do have that clip,

(07:58):
I will definitely put it in theshow notes.
Uh, I think people would love tosee that picture.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, so after that point you werelike, this is it.
I mean, what happened afterthat?
I had really gotten intosongwriting.
Um, I, I'd started writing songsfor the bands that leaning up,
we're putting together.

(08:18):
And so that's really the way.
How old were you at this?
At this time?
I was 15, 16 and I had startedwriting songs when I was, uh, I
don't know, 11 or 12.
And so we, you know, I'd beenreally, really kind of focused
on that and wanted to do that.
And, and, and it started movingkind of to the piano and my, my
mother's a great piano player,so I was never going to like be

(08:39):
the piano player.
I was always going to be thedrummer, but I that that was
never going to dethrone yourmother, but you can't know.
Mom's always mom's got thethrone.
But, um, but I really, I reallykind of was focused more on, on
songwriting than anything else.
And so I would, I would go, um,uh, I'd come home from school
every day and my last couple ofyears of high school, I'd come

(09:01):
home from school, uh, you know,get a snack, finish my homework,
whatever.
And then I would go up to thechurch that I had a key to a bar
to the our church.
And I would go and just writesongs all night.
I would just sit there at thepiano and come up.
But we had a little two trackTEAC recorder and I would record
tracks, you know, and therewasn't really, it was South
Dakota is where we were living.
There wasn't really anything todo.

(09:23):
Yeah.
You know, in this little town,so.
Right.
So I was just a, a really kindof honed as well as you can hone
a craft on your own, you know,and I did it best I could.
And uh, I graduated at 18 andwent to this little college
where you and I met.
I went for one year and um, Idon't, Deb, you didn't really

(09:46):
go, did you, you didn't reallyever enroll,

Speaker 4 (09:53):
you know, you know what, I actually that's, that's
funny you say that.
I think I did enroll.
Okay.
The reason I remember that itwas, I enrolled in I S I a I was
living at home cause we, youknow, I wasn't living on campus
or anything.
Um, but I, I ended up getting afree meal plan, you know, I

(10:15):
would always come to like that,that cafeteria with, I don't
know why.
Like I thought that wassomething great, you know, like
the best part of that educationright there.
That was, I think at thatschool, that meal plan was like
50 grand or something like that.
You know, are you still, you'restill paying that off, right?
30 years later, I'm stillputting that off.
Everything else.
You know, you go to biologyclass and your next thing you

(10:38):
know, you're in a prayer line,you're trying to heal for
something, you know, um, youknow what, I, I made it a year
and about a year and F at afourth of a semester before I
was like, okay, that's enoughfor me, you know, um, this is
not college.
This is like some kind of, butyou know, whatever.
I don't want to, you know,

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Google, it was a junior college.
I mean there was probably what,400 kids and maybe that many,

Speaker 4 (11:05):
maybe, maybe, I don't know.
I don't even know if they're, Idon't even remember if they were
no intention

Speaker 1 (11:09):
of actually go into college to that college.
I went to Nashville and was, um,I was bagging groceries.
I was, uh, working at Sam's.
I was doing all kinds of, youknow, just odd jobs.
And then, uh, one of our mutualfriends kind of talked me into
going.
Galen bell kind of talked meinto going and, and I went and

(11:30):
signed up for a semester andjust kind of, and then I got
into it and I was there for ayear and we're, I carried a
solid 2.0 grade point averageand in chapel.
And by the time I left, I was onprobation.
Uh, I was supposed to be a, Iwas supposed to be, um, uh, I
was supposed to be in my dormthe whole time.

(11:52):
I was like confined my dorm,which I never agreed to.
Uh, I was lost.
I was, I was like, guys, I paidto be here.
I'm, I've got my own car.
I don't know.
Wait, what are you, you know,I'm a full grown man.
Can find mate.
If there was, there's that gate,there's that gate with the guard
out front.
We, you still, like, we used tolike get in someone's trunk and

(12:13):
you know, somebody would sat outfor the night and there'd be
like two people in the trunk andyou know,

Speaker 4 (12:19):
so my best friend, uh , I don't remember Jack, but we
found, yeah, we found a secretpath out behind one trail where
he would like hop a fence and bein another neighborhood and I'll
just always pick them up out inthat neighborhood, you know.
Um, but

Speaker 1 (12:33):
yeah, so I, uh, I, so I left that year, I just kind of
, uh, I was like, nah, I'm not,I'm not coming back at it.
And that was it.
That was the end of my collegecareer.
I came to Nashville, startedworking in studios, started
writing songs with people.
And that's really when, uh, lifekind of kicked in.
That's the one that really sortof the reality of, of whatever

(12:56):
it is you want to be, you know,that's when it kinda kicked in
for me.
And, um, uh, you get, you getdown on music row where people
are, you know, feeding theirkids with songs and they're
feeding their kids with, with,uh, the instrument they play.
And you, you get, you realizereally quick how good people can
get at something.
And, um, and, and you justjumped right in.

(13:18):
And I jumped, I jumped rightinto it.
I started waiting tables andthen writing songs, you know,
when I could and you know, inbetween the cracks in the
schedule.
And, um, and that went on fromlike, you know, uh, gosh, I was
20.
I was, I was 18 when I came toNashville.
I w I went to, I went to moveback in with my parents for

(13:40):
about 10 months.
Uh, then came back to Nashvilleand came back to Nashville.
I guess I was 22 when I cameback and I just went, you know,
all, all, all in and just pushedall the chips in the middle of
the table and, and just nobackup plan, no plan B.
Just went for it.
And had my first, uh, chart songwhen I was 23 with, uh, a group

(14:01):
called the Imperials and, uh, Ohyeah, man, it was, it was, Hey,
you know, they, it was not intheir heyday, it was kind of on
their downturn, but still it's apretty, you know, it was a
pretty prestigious cut to getand they released the song as a
single and w I think it went tonumber seven or something like
that.
And so I had a little, a littlebit of credit, you know, and um,

(14:22):
yeah, yeah.
To, to get a publishing deal,um, with the uh, kind of a young
hot publishing company on musicrow and um, wrote a song called
I surrender all that we'dwritten from[inaudible], from
Michael English.
And then Michael English hadsome issues and, but there was

(14:44):
this new guy coming up calledClayton named clay cross, and he
was signed to the managementcompany that was attached to the
publishing company I was to,they

Speaker 5 (14:52):
brought us, render all to him and, and[inaudible]
and all the planets lined up.
And that was the first taste Iever got of like, Oh, when,
when, when everything is, iskind of lined up, this is what
happens and you get high, youknow, just high, high, high
level talent on, on every level.

(15:13):
Uh, you know, the track and theproduction in the, in, you know,
the mix and blah, blah, blah.
And, uh, and, and then so thebecame a number one song and,
and it was not just the numberone song, but it was kind of an
impact song.
You know what I mean?
It was like a, it was like,yeah, it was a big impacts on
heat.
He just sang the crud out of it.
And, um, he did and that, andthat kind of put me on, you

(15:36):
know, I sorta was in a rollercoaster.
And so, and then I had a, youknow, after that I had about six
months later, I had a song thatwas on a point of grace record
that went to number one.
And then, uh, and then it justkinda kept rolling.
And so I had a number one songin contemporary Christian music,
uh, from not from March, 1994until about 2002.

(15:59):
I had a number one song everysix months for seven years.
So you were literally in the a

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Le a list level in the CCM world.
You were riding the wave when,when you were, when you were
young.
If you've ever go to Reggie'shouse, it's just you have to
wear sunglasses because it's,there's just so much gold and
platinum on the laws.
I am not hitting these guys.
I don't want to hurt your eyes.
Uh, yeah.
I mean, I, I don't know if youknow this, I'm actually blind in

(16:31):
my left eye cause I've done yourhouse so many times.
The office man, that's just frombeing in the office just from
the office.
Uh, and I'm not even jokingfolks.
Truth of the matter is you hada, a tremendous amount of
success,

Speaker 5 (16:45):
20 number one songs, uh, over a period of, you know,
seven or eight years.
Um, it was, it was an a, andthen I started producing
records, although that really,you know, that wasn't what I
wanted to do, wasn't what Iwanted to be.
I want, I really wanted to be anartist.
And I got to this point around1999, 2000 where I was just

(17:09):
honestly, man, I was just kindagetting sick of it.
And I, and I just, I wanted towrite songs.
I don't know how to say thisproperly, but I'm just going to
say it.
I didn't want to just talk aboutJesus every day in every song.
There were other things I wantedto talk about.
You know, I wanted to talk aboutlife.
I wanted to talk about love, Iwanted to talk about, you know,

(17:33):
whimsical stuff, you know,things that just, just, I wanted
to just stretch out as asongwriter and there wasn't
really any way to do that unlessI did it as an artist.
And so I took, do you think thatwas always sort of an embedded

Speaker 4 (17:50):
yeah,

Speaker 5 (17:50):
yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean that, I mean, I reallycame to Nashville, honestly, I
came with a band and we, we, youknow, so we wanted to, we wanted
to get signed and, and that wasreally my, my goal and the band
broke up and you know, so Iended up writing for other
people, but I, the other thing Idid is I gave myself permission
every year to write one songexactly the way I wanted to

(18:13):
write it.
I didn't even want it to getrecorded.
I just, I just, I want to writea song, nobody will record, but,
but I think it's the best song Ican write this year.
And I had 13 at 13 and 14 ofthose and I put them all on one
record and spent 70 grand of myown money making this record and

(18:34):
mixing it and remix in it andjust tweaking it and doing all
that.
You know, I had all these eightpeople working on it, so it was
costing me a fortune.
But when I finally got itfinished, um, it, it, it got, it
got picked up by a universalrecords and you were actually
instrumental in gettingmanagement for me.
You took it to, to steward dealand, and uh, they, they pick me

(18:57):
up as an artist, uh, you know,from a management standpoint.
And, uh,

Speaker 4 (19:03):
I'll never forget it.
We were, I came out to see wherewe at dark horse where the
castle or the at the littleroom.
At doors.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll never forget just comingout for a day or two.
And when I heard what was comingout, I was, you know, best
friends, no friends, if I knewyou or I didn't know you, you

(19:25):
know.
And by that, by that time I, I,I was in the country side,
right?
The business on the video side.
And I was working with a lot of,you know, famous people as well.
But what I heard coming out ofthat space, dude, and it's still
today and, and it's funnybecause you know, Reginald
Reggie and I'll still text eachother like couple of golden

(19:47):
girls every night.
You know, but, and, and, andsome of your stuff from, from
that album, American dreams,which we'll talk about in a
second, still pops up on myplaylist and I, dude, it takes
me to a place where, and it'snot just a place of nostalgia of
like, Oh man, remember back thenit takes me to a place and like

(20:08):
now, like it's still, and I tellyou a lot, you know, I've told
you this before and I'll, youknow, I'll, I'll say it again.
That record is so still is sorelevant.
Even still today.
It just, it just baffles my mindthose side.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
And I will say this, you know, you've said that this
podcast is about me.
Let me tell you this, the thing,the thing that, the reason you
and I are still best friendstoday and one of the reasons
that we became best friendsimmediately on that tennis court
all those years ago, um, isbecause we, we shared this a
desire to be the best atsomething.

(20:46):
And so your is

Speaker 1 (20:48):
really similar to mine in a lot of ways.
I mean, you came to Nashville,you started working with a level
talent.
You, you know, we, it's, it'svery interesting.
We, we both kinda came up inthis from this sort of, uh, you
know, kind of like impoverishedplace.
You know, we weren't, we weren'timpoverished, but you know what
I mean, like sort of like, likeartistically impoverished place.

(21:11):
We were emotionally,emotionally, and, and we, and we
both, we both kind of traveledthis path of, no, I'm not
settling for that.
I'm not settling for this.
I'm not settling for that.
We're going to go to the nextlevel.
And you always had that.
And I always had that and weboth shared that, you know, and,
and so we find ourselves, youknow, I'm in the music part of

(21:35):
it, you're in the video part ofit, but we're both working at
very high levels and, and with,with, you know, the top shelf
people in our profession.
And, uh, so you know, thatthat's something that that's
kept us, I don't know, I thinkit's kept us friends because we
both won't, you know, we bothliterally look at you, you know,
we won't settle for subpar.

(21:57):
It just like good enough isn'tgood enough.
And it's, if it's not a certain,at a certain level, we just
simply won't do it.
And that's something I've alwaysrespected about you.
And I think we see that in eachother, you know?

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Well, I appreciate that.
And I, I don't, sometimes Ioften reflect back and I don't
know quite where to place that,but somewhere down the line, I
always, I always knew there wasabsolutely no, and I, and I
think that, and I, and I stillfeel that way today, like a, you
know, even though, you know,we've done a lot of things and

(22:32):
which we'll get to in a second,especially on your side of
things, but there's alwayssomething more.
But also I'll say this, which Iwant to talk about in a little
bit as well as sometimes Iwonder, is there more, you know,
is there a point where you'rekinda like, okay, I, you know,
I've run the race.

(22:52):
Right.
You know?
Um, but anyways, so I want toget back to this American dreams
things and dream thing, whichthat was the name of the record,
right.
James, uh, can, can you talkabout some of those just, just
briefly kind of roll throughsome of that?

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah.
So, so what happened was Istarted tacking some of the
songs on to, uh, sessions that Iwas doing.
So the first, I think the firstsong we recorded for that record
was a song called Shelby streetbridge.
Uh, no, no, I'm sorry.
When shows your video, it wasactually the first song on the
record was a song called allright.
And I sat down and played thislittle riff for the guitar
player and he goes, Oh, yeah,yeah, I got it.

(23:27):
I got it.
I still love it.
Let's just kind of like put alittle guide track down, no
click, nothing.
I just, I went to the drums, uh,David Cleveland play the guitar
and we, we put it down.
Uh, Chris Kant, who's no longerwith us, played this amazing
bass track, like right off thetop, you know, it was one of
those things where you're like,Oh my gosh, I wish

Speaker 5 (23:46):
this was a real take because, you know, I mean, it
came together, I promise you inlike 20 minutes.
And by the time it was done, I'mlistening back going, man, I
think this is a track.
I think this actually works.
You know,

Speaker 4 (23:59):
man, I've got to give everyone a taste.
What you just described, checkout this intro to it's all
right.

Speaker 6 (24:29):
[inaudible]

Speaker 5 (24:29):
yeah, man.
That's what I'm talking about.
That was it.
And that kind of started theball rolling.
And then I tacked on a few moreattacked on Shelby street
bridge.
I tacked on a song calledYolanda's fine.
Uh, the two existing sessions,by the way, how you won is fine.
Trust me.
She Yolanda's fine.
Uh, I got sick of telling peoplethat.
So I wrote, this is Reggie'swife by the way.

(24:51):
Yeah.
My wife's got her own store.
Trust me, she's her own podcast.
Um, she's got a, yeah, she's a,she's a dual podcast person.
Um, so wrote a song.
So, so there were like three orfour songs I had in the hopper.
And then finally I went, youknow what, this is a record.
And so that's when I, I lockedout dark horse for a week,

(25:11):
booked the band, uh, went toYolanda and said, Hey, you see
all this money in the checkingaccount.
I'm getting ready to just burnit all.
And she was like,[inaudible] andI'll never forget what she said
to me.
She said, and this was Burt.
She said, we don't havechildren.
If you're ever gonna do this,this is the time.
So, uh, God lover, you know,like she knew, you know, so, so

(25:34):
went in and I recorded I thinktwice, I think we cut like 11
tracks, 10 tracks or something.
And, and by the time we were onthe third track, I knew, man,
we're making something special.
I'm in the piano room and[inaudible] dark, dark horses, a
great studio in Nashville.
And, and so the piano room islike, you've got these glass,
these big glass walls, andyou're looking out at horses

(25:57):
just grazing next to you.
Yeah.
And I remember just sittingthere going, you know, playing
this music that w w had beenhearing in my head for a couple
of years, you know, going this,this is it.
It's just like I finally, thisis what I've been trying to find
my whole life.
This is it.
You know?

Speaker 4 (26:14):
So I've got to play another clip based on what you
were just describing.
This is a track called flyingand one of my all time favorite
songs.
But you can just imagine Raj inthis piano booth surrounded by
nature making the art that heloves.

Speaker 6 (26:46):
[inaudible] [inaudible]

Speaker 7 (26:47):
I remember as a young man

Speaker 6 (26:55):
[inaudible]

Speaker 7 (26:56):
I remember[inaudible]

Speaker 6 (27:04):
[inaudible]

Speaker 7 (27:04):
for the new July

Speaker 6 (27:08):
[inaudible]

Speaker 7 (27:10):
that by[inaudible] in the sky fly

Speaker 6 (27:22):
[inaudible]

Speaker 4 (27:22):
we all were just blowing through life.
We're doing our thing, we'retrying to quote unquote do what
we do.
And sometimes we're doing it.
And I know I'm guilty of thisand I and I, it's something that
I'm working on, but it's likewhen you're really doing it and
you can stop and realize in themoment, wait a second, this,

(27:44):
this is it, this is this moment,this is this moment that I've
been waiting on.
And when you can recognize that,I don't think there's any
greater feeling in the worldbecause you can always reflect
back on it like we're doing now.
You can always dream about it,but there's something special
about being in that moment.

Speaker 5 (28:06):
Well, time, I believe this, in my early life I learned
how to play an instrument, youknow what I mean?
Just the basics of playing aninstrument.
And then I learned how to dothat on a stage and, and move a
crowd and what works and whatdoesn't work in front of a
crowd.
Okay, so these are, these arelike kind of craft things you'll
learn.
And then I started working inthe studio and learned, okay,

(28:28):
you can do this and you can't dothat, whatever in the studio.
And then I worked, you know, asa songwriter, fulltime
songwriter and producer for afull 10 12 years.
And so I have all of these, Iguess, chops you would call it,
you know, or, or just thiscraft, this knowledge.
And then you break through tothis other side where you take
all of that knowledge and all ofthat experience and all of that

(28:51):
ability and all of the stuffyou've learned.
And then you start wielding it,you know, and then you start
going, I want to go here, I wantto go there.
And you can, you know, it's,it's not just something that's
in your head that you can't getto.
It's like, you know, how to getthere.
And that's what happened reallywith American dreams.
It was like, it was like all ofthe, everything I'd known and,

(29:13):
and learned and, and, and, youknow, since I was five years
old, I was able to apply, youknow, and that record, man, it
got picked up by the biggestrecord label in the world.
You know, I was, I was bookedby, you know, the largest
booking agency in the world.
I mean it went to the top, youknow, it went to the top of the,
of the stack.
And I had a single that went outand, and was blowing up and it

(29:38):
was in the top 15, um, before Isigned my record deal, you know,
I mean, um,

Speaker 4 (29:46):
that was surreal.
That was a real moment becauseI'll never forget the time,
cause I think you, you'd calledme or we had, we had gone to
lunch or something and said that, uh, you know, if you were
going to be on a highlysyndicated show and you're S,
you know, they were going toplay your single, and it was
Delilah.

(30:07):
I think we say that.
And, and when that song came on,you know, I felt like, you know,
it's like, Oh my gosh, like itwas just like, I was so thrilled
and I couldn't even believe it.
Uh, and that was like a burnerman.
I mean that, that thing, justlike, it was just,

Speaker 5 (30:22):
yeah, it was the most, it's to this day a and
Delilah is a friend of mine and,and you know, we've, we've
remained friends all theseyears, but to this day, the most
requested song in the history ofher show and, and tell everybody
that is a song's called babies.
And it was the last song I puton the record.
It was, it was a kind of anovelty song.

(30:45):
I didn't even really do it in mysets, but people would request
it, friends of mine would cometo shows and request it.
And so I would do this song.
And so behind the scenes, mywife and I could not have
children, which was a prettyironic, you know, I've got this
song called babies.
I'm dreaming about babies andI'm talking about babies and,

(31:06):
uh, you know, people are, I'm,I'm a, I'm starting to be on
these dads shows and I don'thave any kids, you know, and uh,
and yeah, and so, but we hadapplied to go to China to adopt,
um, you know, 18 months earlierthan that.
When the record came out, wellnine 11 happened and things got

(31:26):
pushed back and things gotweird.
And you know, internationaltravel got weird for a while, et
cetera, et cetera.
And so we weren't even sure thatit was going to happen.
We went to Las Vegas just tomess around, just to hang out.
That was back in the days whenwe could do that.
You know, we had extra money tothrow around.
You remember those days you went, you went with us once or

(31:47):
twice.
And um, so my wife and I go toVegas and I'm in the McCarran
airport.
We're about to board our planeand her phone rings and we have
a baby waiting on us in China.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
Okay.
So I just want to put this intoa little bit of perspective
before you go any further, Ijust want to emphasize what was
about to happen in your life.
Talk about the tour and thethings that were actually going
on at the same time that youjust got[inaudible]

Speaker 5 (32:20):
Oh yeah, I was booked on the Cher farewell tour.
Uh, and I always joke in, inshows, this is like three
farewell tours ago, but it'sactually true.
I was doing a show in Vegas acouple of years ago and she
literally was on her thirdfarewell tour across the street
from where I was blind.

(32:41):
You know what I mean?
God love her.
I think there's actually likesix shares, you know what I
mean?
I think they're animatronic atthis point.
And I think they are all overthat.
Yeah, I agree.
But, uh, there's no doubt thatthat is not.
So I was on that tour, uh, theywanted me to do like seven dates
in Texas with Willie Nelson,which was amazing.
Uh, and then I was gonna also doabout, I think I was doing six

(33:02):
dates with the Dixie chicks.
This is like pre record burningDixie chicks.
Um, yeah, that wasn't a, no, no,not in Texas.
So, so I was, you know, I hadthis summer like lined up, you
know, and then, and then at mylistening party, my RA, what
responsible agent, uh, atWilliam Morris comes up to me.
He goes, Hey, uh, I just wannalet you know, uh, your tour you

(33:25):
do at five weeks in Europe withthe goo goo dolls when you get
home.
And, um, he said, get home, geta nanny, get your vote, get your
voice in shape, cause you'regoing to need it cause you're
gonna be doing, uh, you know,night after night for five weeks
in front of the, in front of thegoo goo dolls.
So, so this was all it was.
It was absolutely for real, youknow, and, uh, so I left that

(33:51):
energy, you know, that white hotenergy and guide on a plane with
my wife and went to China andadopted a little girl.
And, uh, and at that moment, youknow, a week, one week from that
day, they handed us a littlegirl with one of the rarest
genetic disorders on planetearth.
And, uh, it changed literallyeverything in my life.

(34:14):
And this, the thing that shehas, does it present until it's
about, until someone's about 10months old.
Well, we got her at eightmonths.
So there was no way to tell herthat she had so[inaudible]

Speaker 4 (34:27):
well and to, and to reflect on that just a little
bit, there was a lot going on atthat time.
Um, that was back during the SARsketch.
Right.
And if I remember correctly, youwere really sick, I think, you
know, when you, you were headedover there, right?
And you had a little bit, youwere like, do I, you know, do I
have this?
We

Speaker 5 (34:47):
landed in, in, in, uh, Beijing and I get off the
plane and start coughingimmediately.
And uh, you know, from thatmoment, Oh and I coughed from
the minute we walked off theplane in Beijing till we got
back on the plane.
Three weeks later I had this job.
You guys were, there were threeweeks.

(35:07):
Yeah.
I had this horrible cough and Iwould call the world health
organization.
Every time I was supposed to geton a plane, I would call the
world health organization andsay, Hey, I've got this horrible
cough.
Should I fly?
And they would say to me, underno circumstances are you to get
on a plane.
And I would, I would say thankyou and hang up and go get on a

(35:30):
plane, you know?
So, um, I did this for threeweeks.
You know, we were in Beijing, wewere in Guang Jo, we were in
Nanshan.
We were literally all over Chinaand I was wearing a mask and it
just was very dramatic.
And, um, the second week we werethere, we went to Nanchong.
We, we, we got our daughter, uh,who had a horrible fever.

(35:52):
She, she'd gotten like seven oreight immunizations the same
day.
Um, she was just sick.
I was sick.
And, uh, that's when we reallybonded, you know, that's when we
kind of became buddies and itwas like we were in the trenches
together, you know.
So we went, we were at the Haas,the Chinese hospital, the one
they don't, they don't wantAmericans to see.

(36:13):
We were there a couple times andthey gave her scalp IVs and uh,
a woman tried to give me her sonto take back to America, very
dramatic stuff.
And I'm coughing all over theplace.
I think they're going toquarantine me.
And the, the translator keepstelling me, don't, don't let
yourself get quarantine.
Because if you, if theyquarantine you, they'll put you

(36:33):
in a room with people who haveSARS and you'll get it.
And so it was just this justthree weeks of just like
craziness, you know.
How did you compartmentalize?
I mean, did you justcompartmentalize all that
because you, you were in China,you had a whole other thing
happening across the pond.
Well, let me, let me tell youhow I compartmentalize it.

(36:54):
My wife is a tar, a tiger momand my wife just kept saying,
Hey, suck it up.
Get on the plane.
You know, let's go.
Let's get on my wife.
Yes, absolutely.
Dude.
Dude, you know, Yolanda, she's,she's tougher than any person
I've ever met in my life.
And so, uh, she, she was reallythe person who just kinda kicked

(37:15):
our ass all the way to get thebaby out at home.
And we, you know, we had to goto 17 different agencies and,
and, and say, yes, we're happywith our baby.
Yes, we accept this baby.
And man, we had no idea what wewere getting into.
You know, you got to keep inmind, these are the days before

(37:36):
smart phones, you know, and along distance call from China
was still kind of a thing, youknow?
And so I, I think I made twocalls.
I called my dad once, talked tomy brother once, I talked to my
manager, literally threeminutes, and it was all staticky
and I couldn't tell what he wassaying, but we land in, in LA.

(37:56):
We, we spent the night in LA andthen we get on a plane coming
home to Nashville.
We get off the plane andNashville, there's like 50, 60
people waiting on us.
It was a wonderful welcome home.
Things are gonna get right.
You know, and I'm on the way toour house.
My manager called me and hesaid, Hey man, uh, get home.
Get over your jet lag.

(38:17):
Come into the office on Monday.
We got some things to talk aboutand it didn't sound good, you
know.
And so, um, Monday morning Iwent down to my manager's office
and he said, man, we, we, uh, welost a single, I was like, wait,
we'd lost it, you know, he said,yeah, it, it, what that, yeah,
what does that mean?
It did some bad testing in theNortheast in blah, blah, blah.

(38:39):
And this didn't happen and thatperson didn't pick it up or
whatever.
And so we lost it.
And, uh, so all of a sudden I'vegot this new mouth defeat and
she's got some, some mysteriousillness and now like, I don't
have a hot single.
Oh.
And because you lost the single,you lost the share Turo and
you've lost the goo goo dollstour and you're not doing the
Willie Nelson dates and you'renot doing it, you know?

(38:59):
And it was just this, this kindof snowball of, Oh my God, you
know.
So it was just a really weirdturn of events.
And I had been the toast of thetown.
And in March, by September, uh,they, the, the record labels
sent me my release, uh, fromthe, from the label, via email.

(39:24):
They didn't even call me.
They just emailed me and said,you know, we're, we're done.
So, you know, I found myself forthe first time, really in a long
time.
I, I had been on an upwardtrajectory, um, for a long time.
And for the first time in mylife, my adult life, um, man, I

(39:46):
didn't know what to do.
You know, I, I, I had failed,you know, and I knew that I was
good enough.
You know, I had proved that I, Ihad the beat, the ability, but
other forces, now we're, we'reworking, you know, and, and
that's when, so, so, you know, Italked earlier about breaking
through to that, to the T, tobeing an artist.

(40:10):
So now I now have broken throughinto this world where, um,
anything can affect you now.
Now you're in this world where,okay, well, so what if you got
talent?
So what if you could make agreat record?
Now you realize, not even that,that's not even enough.
You know, that's not even reallywhat it's about.

(40:30):
And so I spent really the nextfive years, um, I got a
publishing deal, wrote, some are, I tried to write country music
for, for a few years and it justdidn't work.
And I was, I was just off bylittle bit.
I just wasn't right in the rightsongs at the right time.
Um, and finally at the end ofthe, at the end of that, uh,

(40:50):
stent, my publisher and I hadthis long heart to heart
conversation on the phone.
And she says to me something noone has ever said to me before,
she says to me, man, you know,maybe you, maybe you've done all
you're going to do.
You know, maybe it's time tohang it up, you know, I mean,

(41:11):
dude, that had to be, Oh my God,dude, I'm, I'm 39 years old and
I'm, um, um, you know, somebodyis telling me, maybe it's, maybe
you've done it and been on thatyou've been on a stage since you
were five since I was, I don'tknow how to do anything else,
you know, and so, uh, I'mthinking, so that's it.
You know, this is, this is it.
And, um, so I find myself nowdownstairs on my computer for

(41:39):
the first time in my adult life,um, I'm scrolling through FedEx,
uh, applications and I'm lookingat, you know, grocery store
applications and I'm like, whatcan I do to make a living?
Because I, I don't know whatelse to do now.
And I'm almost 40, you know,like, like who, who's interested

(42:00):
in a 40 year old washed upsongwriter, you know?
And I think honestly, man, I, I,I don't mean any other way to
put it.
I just started, I startedthinking like that.
I was like, man, I was just, Ijust got, I just got a bullet
and there wasn't anything Icould do about it, you know?
And it had nothing to do with mytalent and it had nothing to do
with where I was and nothing todo with my timing.

(42:23):
It was just our, or maybe it waseverything to do with my timing.
You know, I just, they, I wentto a country with 1.6 billion
people and they handed me alittle girl with the rarest
genetic disorder on earth.
You know what I mean?
I just got hit.
I just got hit with a bullet,you know, and there wasn't
anything I could do about it,you know.

(42:44):
I mean, she's got, she's missinga piece of her 15th maternal
chromosome.
She can't, uh, she can't speak.
She can't do anything really forherself.
She can't bathe herself, feedherself, uh, clothe herself.
She's, my daughter is now 16,almost 17, essentially operating
on about a two year old level.

(43:05):
Um, but the first four years ofher life, she didn't sleep a
lot.
A lot of, uh, a lot of thisdisorder, uh, for the, for the
first part of it is just a lotof lack of sleep.
So every, everything, like yourwhole foundation has gone.
And now, now with that, all of asudden the music business starts
taking this weird downturnbecause nobody's buying CDs

(43:28):
anymore and now they're, they'repirating music.
And so I'm out playing clubs and, um, um, I mean, dude, it's,
it's getting down to the raw.
I'll play on the street corner,you know, kinda thing.
And, um, and now I'm gettingback to way, way back to my
roots.
Like, Hey, I could set up inyour living room and give you a

(43:48):
good show, you know, you know,and uh, and so you start
getting, it starts gettingreally real, man.
Everything starts getting real,you know?
And, uh, so you got, you got toa point where you're looking

Speaker 4 (44:00):
for jobs at FedEx and , and home

Speaker 5 (44:04):
[inaudible] percent

Speaker 4 (44:05):
and, and, and, and talk about that and, and, and
what happened, you know, as thatwent along.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm, I'm on the onlinetrying to figure out what can I
do, man?
What, what is it I'm qualifiedto do?
I don't, I, I, I, as I saidearlier, I, I jettisoned the
college thing.
I don't have a degree.
I'm not qualified to really doanything.
And I'm filling out onlineapplications.
Can we move to Memphis?
Could we move to st Louis?
You know, all that stuff.

(44:33):
And the American idol, uh, thingwas on and my, my daughter was
into it.
She loved the bad singers.
My wife was into it.
And, uh, we all love the badsingers.
Absolutely.
And so, and they, they, they hadfor two years, just two years,
they had, in 2007 to 2008, theyhad a songwriting competition

(44:55):
that was in tandem with theshow.
In 2007, a good friend of mine,one named Scott, grew pain.
It's the only reason I knewabout it because he had one and
my wife and I celebrated.
I was like, Oh my gosh, I dunnowhat he won, but I'm happy for
him, you know.
And uh, the next year she, shesays to me, I'm walking through
the living room.
She says to me, ah, dude, in, ofcourse, you know, Yolanda, you

(45:17):
know this.
Yolanda calls me dude.
She said, uh, dude, they're,they're having that con, that
songwriting competition again.
I want you to enter it.
So I was like, really?
You want, you want me to dothat?
She goes, yeah, absolutely.
So I went down.
Did you want to do that?
I mean, no, I put up that Ihadn't seriously, I had no
thoughts of it.
I was trying to get a job.
I needed a job, man.

(45:37):
You know what I mean?
I, I needed to do something, butshe wanted me to hear the song
contest.
So I did.
So I went down to my office andI wrote this song that I
thought, man, I, I don't know ifany of these American idol kids
are gonna want to sing this, butthis is how I feel.
I had this newly adopted sonwho's freaking amazing, you
know, and he brought this newlight into our life and I'm

(46:00):
trying to write about, you know,all this stuff that's happened
to me.
And I thought, man, what if,what if this great adventure
I've been looking for in my lifehas just been happening right
here in my house?
You know, and so I wrote thissong called time of my life and
turned it in with, you know, my$10 entry fee of 42,000 other

(46:22):
entries.
And I didn't think I was goingto win the thing.
You know, I, I'd never entered asong contest before and I've
just never, I didn't, I didn'tknow anything about it, you
know.
So I entered this song contestand uh, and they contacted me,
uh, within 24 hours and theysaid, look, you're in, you're
already in the top 20.
This is a great song.

(46:43):
We, we, we already won it in thetop 20s.
I was like, okay.
So then in the top 20 that, youknow, they've got these blogs
that talk about the songs and itwas on the top 20 online contest
for a month and you know, theygot these blogs and so I went
and read these blogs and nobody,zero people picked my song as

(47:03):
the winner.
They had, they had two or threeother songs that were going to
be the winner.
They didn't even mention us.
Nobody even mentioned my song.
[inaudible].
So it was like, and so I waslike, well, okay, well I've lost
this one too, you know.
So, um, I just went about mybusiness, man.
I just, I just kept looking forjobs and, uh, I wrote a couple

(47:24):
of jingles that, you know, I hadcome my way and I was way more
excited about those, you know,those jingles.
I was making like five or 600bucks for, and uh, then they
called me one day and said, Heyman, you won this thing.
And uh, I, I was dumbfounded,you know, and so, so I won the
contest, went out to LA, went tothe American idol finale.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Now keep in mind, I just want to remind everybody at
this point in time, becauseAmerican idols waned a little
bit.
I mean, maybe a lot, this is,this was in the ha kinda in the
hay days,

Speaker 5 (47:59):
the biggest season to date that they've ever had
season seven.
So the finale was, I'll just togive you an a, just to give you
a, a taste of what it was.
Second only to the Superbowlthat year in viewership favorite
that David arch Aletta but DavidCook wins that year.
But this show went long and soDVRs were cutting off and, and

(48:23):
there were two Davids.
So Ryan Ryan secret says a newAmerican idol is David boom DVRs
cutoff.
So millions of people were goingto iTunes to find out which
David won and so that they wouldgo to and they would see the
David Cook one and then theywould listen to the song and
they would download it.
So it's the only song in historyto crash the iTunes server.

(48:49):
Um, there were 200 and 236,000downloads of it in four days, uh
, which is a record.
And then they took it to radio,which it was not in the
contract.
That's not something they saidthey would do, but they, they
had so many downloads, they werelike, well, let's take this to
radio.
They take it to radio.
And in two weeks it was in thetop 10, in four on four

(49:12):
different formats and it went tonumber one and three different
formats.
And then on the, on the AC, uh,on the, on the dull contemporary
charts, billboard at Oak Ridgecharts, it stayed there for 16
weeks, which is a record whichwhat, uh, broke the record room.
I will always love you.
It, it beat that by one week.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
So after you wrote the song, you know, this thing
blew up and talk about, cause Iremember this, you guys were
planning, you know, and youroriginal plan to go back to
Beijing right before you knewBella had, you know, this rare
disease that you were going tocelebrate.
Talk about that a little.

Speaker 5 (49:52):
Yeah.
So we, we, we spent a week inBeijing before we went to
Nanchong to get Bella.
Isabella is my daughter.
Um, and we got, we, we were likewalking.
My wife and I are walking downthe street.
We get these, we run into thislittle street vendor who's
selling, uh, Beijing 2008Olympic games paraphernalia.
And we got these kitschy littlehats that said Beijing 2008

(50:16):
Olympic games.
And I was like, Oh man, I didn'tknow that Beijing, you know, got
the bid for the games.
And so we get back on the busand we're with eight or nine
families and I've got like, I'vegot a video of this.
And, and we had all found outthat Beijing had gotten the, the
Brit bid for the games.

(50:36):
And so we decided that we wouldall come back for the 2008
Beijing Olympic games and bringour daughters, they would all be
six and we would, you know, likereintroduce them to the land of
their birth and we would, youknow, come and visit China
again, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, our daughter, you know,has Angelman syndrome.

(50:59):
Our daughter is missing a, apiece of a chromosome.
Our daughter couldn't make thattrip.
Uh, we lost, we lost all ourmoney.
But on the eighth day of theeighth month of the eighth year,
eight, eight, eight, uh, of thenew millennium, they closed the
opening ceremonies of theBeijing Olympic games too.

(51:22):
That song I had written in mybasement that it was about my
daughter.
They closed that, that openingceremonies to Tom of my life.
David Cook, Bob Costas says forall of us here at NBC, good
night.
And then the strum happens andthey do this entire montage, a

(51:42):
time of my life.
And they used the song sevenmore times.
Every time Michael Phelps won agold medal, they used the song,
which was like 50 times, and hebroke a record for the number of
metals that year.
So he said he wants sevenmetals.
And then when Oprah did her, youknow, year end review thing, she

(52:06):
did a whole Bay in America, onemore metals that year than they
had ever won.
So Oprah did a thing and thenshe said the official theme song
of the 2008 Beijing Olympicgames here to sing the official
theme song is David Cook.
And David shows up in, sings mysong on the Oprah show.

(52:28):
Uh, you know, uh, that was theofficial theme song.
And I know you know this becauseyou work with Oprah for a couple
of years.
When Oprah says something, they,they, they, they put it on stone
somewhere, right?
They, they chisel it in stone.
It's all right.
Yeah.
It's always chisel on the side.
So, uh, and then, uh, I wrote ablog about the story and the

(52:51):
backstory and all this and itwent viral and, and it had all,
you know, millions of reads andI'm getting the emails from
African, Singapore.
And then I get a, I get a phonecall from, uh, a book publisher
and they're there and they werelike, man, we think this is a
book.
And so I thought, man, you know,I've always wanted to write a
book.
So I wrote three chapters.

(53:12):
I sent it to the publisher andthey were like, man, if this
rest of the book is this, thisis what we want.
So I wrote this book and it cameout in 2010.
And, uh, and I remember theywanted you to a companion CD

Speaker 4 (53:26):
as well.
Had you been riding or been inthe studio while you were riding
?

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, I'd been recording masters here and
there.
I probably, I think I probablyhad six or seven things already
recorded, but a, they said,yeah, we wanna we want to have a
companion disc.
So this would've been my, youknow, so I was going to go in
and do my second, uh, CD.
And you were going through areal big life transition that
summer.

(53:51):
Um, you know, your, your, yourfamily situation was changing
and you were getting ready torelocate to the coast.
And, and I don't want to droptoo many names, but you were
getting ready to go work for, uh, uh, ms Oprah Winfrey and uh,
yeah, you, by the way, youdescribed that was so eloquent.
I try to be a, I'm trying to bedelicate here.

(54:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Now that, you know, it was, it was, it was
interesting towards divorce on apodcast we can say, or the
capital D.
um, and it was a bigtransitional period of my life
and I'll never forget itbecause, you know, you'd called
me up and was like, Hey man, canyou, you know, take some, some
stills.
And I had taken up stillphotography, I don't know, a few

(54:33):
years before that just doesn'toutlet.
And uh, I'm like, of course, ofcourse.
Yeah.
I mean let's, you know, let's,let's do it.
And I can remember we were onthe phone talking about it and
we're talking about differentideas cause you know, literally
it was just, I was about toleave and my son, my young, my
youngest son, um, Casey wasactually um, going to drive out

(54:56):
to California with me.
Right.
And literally the day before iswhen we did your, this photo
shoot.
And we were just talking aboutdifferent things.
And at one point in time we'rejust throwing out crazy stuff.
And at one point, I don'tremember if it was you or me
cause we were talking about, wewere sitting in the car, I'll
never forget,

Speaker 1 (55:14):
get it in us, in us admit, Oh I want to do something
that's a little different kindof out of the box.
You know, what, what, what wouldyou, you know, what would you do
in this situation?
And I, dude, you just said,dude, we got to burn a piano.
That's kind of my mindset at themine at the moment.
Half joking.
And then it was like, wait asecond, you're like, yeah, man,

(55:35):
I was in.
And the minute you said, I waslike, Oh yeah, we're doing that.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
And, and like you got on Craigslist and, and literally
found a piano for, what wasthat?
Like 10 bucks?

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Well, we've got a 100 bucks for 100 bucks.
And it was a friend of mine,dude, I got a guy I knew who,
who.
That's right.
That's right.
Uh, we went over there.
We went, we took my truck overthere and it was in, it had, you
know, they had one of those iron, uh, soundboards.
It was an upright, but it had aniron soundboard and it, we could
not lift it.

(56:06):
Remember that thing was that.
So we, uh, we, we deconstructedthat thing in his garage, just
kind of sat there and looked atlike, what do we do here?
And at some point, uh, you know,I think you're like walking
around, you know, getting,getting a vision for the shots
and you're like, you know what,we don't even need the back.
And, and he, he went and got hissaws on and we just cut the back

(56:28):
out of it.
And so we just had, you know,the keys in the, in the, in the
S in the shell basically.
And it was pretty light that youand I could pick that up and,
yeah,

Speaker 4 (56:39):
and I, I don't, I don't know what the, the poor
guy did with that[inaudible]lead that we left in his garage,
but I'll never forget.
We got that thing loaded up andme and Casey were driving and
you know, you were beside uswith this like big, you know,
sought up piano and we'd donesome other shots.
Um, but I think the topic wewere kinda like, okay, so what

(57:02):
are we going to do with it?
What I know what we can do,let's put it on a train track,
an active train track.
You think we need to, you thinkwe need a, a permit for this
permit?
[inaudible] permit now man, this, this'll be quick.
This will be quick.
So we lifted that thing and wesat it on this, on the train
tracks and I'll never forgetman, as soon as we got it set,

(57:25):
all of a sudden the ground kindof rumbled.
And I've never seen three guysget a piano off of the train
tracks so fast, man.
We yanked that thing off at thetrain track.
It was crazy.
So, um, and anyway, we got somegreat shots there.
And by the way, I'll put some,I'll put some of those shots in

(57:46):
the show notes.
Yeah.
And then like that night you,you know, when you're buddies,
he had a farm and you know, wejust want to burn this thing
like, Oh man, this is going tobe great.
You know, we'll burn, burn apiano unless you'd be great.
And I'll never forget we get outthere and kinda get set up.
And, and we had no, I mean, wewere just doing this like, you

(58:09):
know, straight from the hip andwe just got some lighter fluid
and I don't remember what else.
It almost would've been flames.
My brother.
Yeah.
I actually, I think we had somegas too, didn't we?
I think

Speaker 1 (58:21):
that was at, there was a little gasoline involved
and that's really when it, whenit kinda got out of hand.
Yeah.
That was, that was intense man.
And working around those flameswas intense and you know,
they're like lapping at myhands, you know, I'm trying to
get as close to the fire as Ican, uh, to get cool shots.
And we did, we got some coolshots.

(58:41):
Mean there's this great shot ofme, like, like at one point I'm,
I'm really hot, you know, I'mlike punching at the fire.
Like, I gotta get outta herewhile the piano's burning man.
And I'm, I'm sitting here, youknow, working around these
flames and stuff.
Uh, I kind of felt it, it wasreally strange, man.
We, you and I had this realweird connection of, of we kind

(59:04):
of felt the same way about it.
It was very symbolic of what youwere going through.
Kinda symbolic of what I wasgoing through.
And I just started.
I don't, I'm not, uh, overdued Imean, you know me a long time.
I'm not a spirit, an overlyspiritual guy.
I don't like, you know, I don't,I'm not into all that, that I,

(59:26):
I'm fine for everybody else tobe, I've just never been an
overly spiritual guy.
But right.
There was something almostworshipful about that piano
going up in flames.
And I just started singing thischorus.
Man, I was just in it.
It just came to me in the wholetime under my breath.
The whole time I'm workingaround the flames and you're
shooting pictures.

(59:46):
I was just singing this shit andI'm fat, you know, this whole
glue core, set it on fire, setit on fire.
[inaudible] and so I'm singingit the whole time and I
remembered it, uh, and on aflight, I think the next two
weeks or so later I had a flightinto Florida, had a show and I

(01:00:10):
remembered it in a, uh, on aback of a beverage napkin.
I wrote these verses and I knewthat that was the title of the
CD.
We, we had not gotten a tie.
We had not come to come up witha title.
And I went in and tracked itwithout anybody hearing it.
I just knew it was right and,and cut the track and sent it to

(01:00:32):
the, the, I guess you'd call himthe labels, really, the book
publisher.
They were kind of acting as thelabel, but I sent it to them and
they flipped out.
They were like, man, this is,and it ended up being the last
chapter of the book as well.
Um, yeah.
And it was just really symbolicof the fact that sometimes, and
I, and it wasn't lost on me,that it was this instrument that
I had been tied to my whole lifeand I just put the flames to it

(01:00:57):
and said, you know, what, ifthis needs to go than it needs
to go.
And, uh, and you were kind ofdoing the same thing and you
know, and we hugged and youdidn't do the next day you left
for California.
And you know, I kind of embarkedon a different life and it was,
I think everybody should, uh,have a symbolic piano burning.

(01:01:19):
So yes.
You know, yes.
I'm not encouraging and burned,literally burned a piano with,
but you know,

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
do not burn anything down physically.
Uh, it's been 10 years.
Uh, so, uh, but yeah, I, youknow, w and I've talked about
this before on other shows, butyou know, we all have different,
you know, seasons and I think itwas interesting as you said, our
sort of lined up, um, we werekinda going through similar or,
you know, not the exact samething, but metaphysically

(01:01:49):
probably.
And I don't know, it was one ofthose things that I thought
about often through the years.
And, um, you kind of have tosometimes close chapters in your
life and sometimes, you know,it's a hard close and you have
to just kinda close it and starta new one.
And as an adult.
And a lot of times that seems,you know, impossible, especially

(01:02:12):
F, you know, if you've beendoing something, you know, for
so long, I mean, you'd been asongwriter for all your life,
you know, and you know, so it's,it's something that, that it's,
uh, you know, sometimes you justhave to go.
And, uh, my dad had told mesomething, you know, when I was
young, I was going through somesickness and stuff and he
basically, he just kinda wasencouraging me and he's like,
man, you, man, you just got aplan to live.

(01:02:35):
And I think I think about that alot.
And, uh, and I think it's true,right?
I mean, it's, it's, we can justkind of muddle along, but mean,
what else are we gonna do?
And, uh, yeah,

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
yeah.
And it's[inaudible].
And so that I don't think youcan really fully move forward,
you know, until you, until youjust kind of like symbolically
burned the past.
It doesn't mean that, look, Ididn't stop playing the piano, I
didn't stop writing songs.
I, you take, you take thingsthat you learned with you, but
it definitely was, uh, a visualrepresentation of me going, you

(01:03:09):
know what, I, I can do otherthings.
You know, there, there, there's,there's a lot more out there in
life than just this and, uh, andit makes my world bigger, not
smaller.
And, you know, so that was a, itwas a great moment.
And I'm, I'm so glad that wehave it captured in pictures.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll put some on, I'll, I'll putsome behind the scenes on there.
And by the way, it got me in thebook.
And is that, that the very end?

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yeah, that's absolutely right, dude.
You're, you're, you're, you'renamed in the book.
And, uh, I tell that story inthe book.
That's how I, I finish it.
And, um, because, uh, you know,I was trying to, I was like,
how, how do I end this?
And I realized, man, this is,this is how, this is how this
chapter really closed.
This is how the, you know, and,uh, and I, I think the last line

(01:04:03):
is something like, you know, mypiano ultimately burned all the
way to the ground.
And so be it, you know,

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
close our eyes and you know, and that's it.
And we take the dirt nap, youknow, I mean, it's not over till
it's over and there's alwaysgoing to be something else that
comes along.
And, and I think that everythingthat you've gone through, you
early on being at the top ofyour game, the top of the top of
your game, elevating it evenhigher.

(01:04:28):
Had you not had the experiencesthat you've, that you were
handed, I don't think you couldtalk to people or have an impact
or tell a story.
Like, you can tell today,

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
one of the things I've learned is that everybody,
Devin, every single person Ihave, my daughter's taught me
this.
Every single life is soimportant.
And everybody's got a story andeverybody's got something to
contribute and there is, there'sliterally nobody on this planet

(01:05:06):
that is lesser than, there'snobody here that isn't giving us
something we need.
If you are being authentically,you're giving us something, we
need you, you are, you arecontributing in a way that only
you can contribute like we needyou.

(01:05:29):
And that's the, I think that'slike the biggest lesson I've
learned really from my daughteris that, Oh my gosh, yeah, we,
we didn't, we weren't completeuntil you got here.
You know, and now we need you tobe 100%.
You, we, you to be exactly whatyou were here to be.

(01:05:49):
And, and, and, and I need tolisten to you.
You know, if you got somethingto say, I may not agree with
you, but I need to hear what yougot to say.
Everybody is, is important.
I really believe that.
And I, it makes me like, listento people more closely at the
grocery store.
You know, if I'm in line at thebank, um, I don't discount the

(01:06:09):
guy sitting next stand next tome or the woman that's standing
next to me or you know, uh,people who I might go, I, you
know, whatever, she's, shesounds weird, or whatever.
Now I listened closely to thosepeople.
I that, that, that weird personmight have something to say that
that makes sense.
You know?
That is so true.
So true.
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
I think that's the best place to leave it for now.
I'm positive you'll be back foranother episode.
Suresh, thanks again for beingthe very first guest on the
groove podcast.
I hope everyone enjoyed yourstory and we'll join up with you
to get even more great content.
[inaudible] been my pleasure,man.
I mean, this is been an honorfor me.
Oh man, I appreciate it andthanks again.

(01:06:51):
Be sure to head over to thegroup, podcast.com to check out
the show notes to see images ofthe piano we burned and to find
out more about Reggie.
You can find me on Instagram atDevin Pence.
We also have a Facebook page, sohop over there to join us as
well, and finally be sure to hitthat subscribe button wherever
you get your podcasts, and itwould really help us out if you

(01:07:14):
hit that five star rating andleave a review.
Thanks again for listening andwe'll talk soon.
You've been listening to thegroove with Devin pens.