May 14, 2025 • 25 mins
In part 2 of our talk with speaker, trainer, and coach George Anderson, George delves into the significance of inner dialogue in controlling motivation, mindset, and resilience. He discusses how self-awareness and alternative responses can help individuals stay within their circle of control. George also highlights the importance of well-being for high performers, explaining that taking small breaks and looking after one's physical, emotional, and mental energy can enhance performance and creativity. He shares practical frameworks like the DASH (diet, activity, sleep, hydration) for improving well-being and performance.
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Matt Best (00:00):
Hello. Welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with
(00:02):
myself, Matt Best and JonnyAdams and part two of our
conversation with GeorgeAnderson.
Jonny Adams (00:07):
George Anderson has got a great background within
personal training and all theway into business and how he
supports individuals grow bothfrom the body side of things and
also from the mindset and thewell being.
Matt Best (00:18):
We talk a lot with our clients about that self talk
element of telling yourself andhaving that internal dialog
that's productive, as opposed toletting it be the thing that
kind of brings you down andpreparing for that. And I think
it's a such an important thing,like what, what you telling
yourself, and how that impactsthe way that you see yourself,
and then the actions and thenthe results.
George Anderson (00:37):
All of this, whether it's motivation,
mindset, resilience, it is, it'snearly all controlled, or at
least massively influenced bythat inner dialog. Like, what
are you saying to yourself, andjust having some awareness of it
and having some alternatives. Sowhat else could you say? What
else could you do? How elsecould you respond that then just
put you into the circle ofcontrol here, rather than the
things you can't control but areof concern to you. So when you
(01:00):
identify that. And the stoicswould would have us believe that
the only thing we can trulycontrol is our reasoned
response, right? So I thinkthat's beautiful, because when
you come back to thatsimplicity, like, well, how can
I respond to this instead ofreact to it? Because maybe I'm
more programmed to, how can Iget into into that step back
from it, and then actuallydecide what that response is
(01:22):
going to be like instead.
Matt Best (01:24):
So the the people, the individuals and the
businesses that you work with,What benefit do they see of from
the work that you do with themin this and and what are those
kind of key leverage, or those,those key kind of levers, I
suppose, for individuals. Imean, we talked about a few of
them there, clearly, but maybeyou could share an example of
where you've of a particularclient or someone that you've
(01:45):
helped in in that situation.
George Anderson (01:48):
Yeah, I think a lot of the work I do still comes
into the bucket of well being,well being and performance, but
it's still, it's still kind ofwell being, and one of the big
challenges there is, especiallywith high performers and sales
professionals as well. Withinthat is that well being has seen
some Well, I time for that,because I've got, I'm busy, I've
got big deadlines. I've got todo this, and I've got to do that
(02:11):
and and that the challenge thereis that we miss this connection
between actually, when you cancreate this, this space, and you
can, you know, you can make evensmall amounts of time for
yourself, or take breaks orlooking after your mindset,
looking after your physical,emotional and mental energy,
then that's actually going toincrease your performance. So it
(02:32):
makes you more resilient. Youmake better decisions. You are
more creative. You can connectbetter with people as well, and
all your listeners andyourselves will will have had
the experience of when you'vebeen really depleted and and how
much harder it is to go throughthe day and feel like you're
performing at your best. So ifwe allow ourselves to get run
down, not only does that put usat risk of burnout, and, you
(02:55):
know, doesn't really give us themost amazing experience of our
lives, but as as highperformers, we can't reach that
potential. And a lot of peopleget frustrated by knowing that
that potential is there, butthey just can't reach it. They
just can't they just haven't gotthe energy to do it. So then it
comes into a what are thehabits, the performances, the
behaviors that they can put intopractice that can, you know,
(03:15):
make that easier to reach thatpotential without it feeling
like an either or well being orperformance?
Jonny Adams (03:20):
Can I unpack the word well being quickly?
Because, because I we talk a lotto Chief Commercial officers,
CEOs about high performance, anda lot of our statement programs
that we've delivered for last 20years is called High Performance
sales habits, or highperformance leadership habits.
And the amount of people we talkto on this podcast about habits,
it's like, yes, we believe in ittoo, but well being, you know? I
(03:43):
mean, I'm going to be quitecynical here, and, you know, HR
own it. It's mandated. What iswell being? I mean, I've worked
as one of my clients was, was afinancial well being
organization, and I was like, Iwish when I was 10 that that
business was around me, becauseI would have not made the
mistake when I was in my 20s andget myself into debt that then
(04:04):
took another three years to getout of debt. And I still talk to
my wife about financial wellbeing, the stress that it brings
me. It's just, you can seealready stressed well being.
What is it?
George Anderson (04:15):
Yeah, it's actually this. This week I've
been working with four differentgroups, and the first thing I've
asked them in these, these daylong courses as being like, what
does well being mean to you? Andagain, do a mind map, and to
spin off and work together insmall groups, and to kind of all
the words that come up. And youget financial well being, you
get spiritual well being, mentalwell being, you get people
(04:35):
talking about, like, physicalhabits that they have, like
getting outside. But there's a,there's a, there's a word that
Gen Z and Gen Jenai are using atthe moment to get into sort of
grounding, like feet on thegrass, bare feet the ground that
are coming what it is nowsomeone listening will know what
it is. But basically this is thelatest thing right around well
(04:56):
being is just making sure you'reoutside, because people are
spending so much time. I'minside, and people are
recognizing now how important itis to get outside as well. I
think that's the thing withwellbeing. It's very individual
as to what you need, and peopleare starting to realize what
they need when they have a lackof it.
Jonny Adams (05:13):
Is there a feeling that I need to get to when I'm
when I'm that's what I'm tryingto establish is because I think
there is, but it's hard todefine it. Sorry, I just I want
to dig a little bit deeper,because you talk about that
feeling. About that feet on theground, that's a lot about
energy. There's been a lot ofwritten about having your body
connecting to the core of theEarth. But is there like a
feeling I need to get to to bein a good state of well being?
George Anderson (05:31):
Yeah, you can have strong physical health and
physical well being, and stillhave all kinds of mental
challenges. And you can be in areally good mindset, mental
state, and have all kinds ofphysical challenges. So it
really is, if you're looking atpositive well being, it's not
just an absence of ill health,mental or physical or otherwise,
(05:51):
it is. It's where you feel likeyou've got this real positive
like it doesn't have to beperfect, but you feel like
you're doing okay. You've gotthe resources that you need the
mental, emotional and physicalresources to do what you need to
do, and still have a little bitof bandwidth left at the end of
that for yourself. And it's astate. It's going to be
different for all of us. I thinkthat's what really came to me
(06:13):
from doing these workshops thisweek, that every group and all
the groups within each of thefour days I did came up with
different understandings of whatwell being did was and and you
get people who are cynical aboutit as well, because you said
it's an HR function. It'ssomething we would tell we have
to do. It's mandatory, and itsometimes it feels like it's
just being forced upon us,whereas really it's an inside
(06:35):
job. It's happiness, not just ahedonistic hahaha, joy, funny
cat videos, type happiness, buta sense of contentment, a sense
of the Greeks used the wordEudaimonia that eudemonic,
happiness, purpose driven. So doyou feel like you're connected
to a sense of meaning andpurpose with the work you're
doing with your family or otherthings that's all part of well
(06:56):
being as well?
Jonny Adams (06:57):
Yeah, we've, for the last three years, we've
delivered a high performanceclient engagement program, which
is we, we dubbed it a worldclass program, but it took many,
many months of observing highperformance in situ, and then we
pulled out all of the behavioraltypes, and then built this
methodology, and we talked a lotabout higher purpose. And you
(07:17):
know, if you know your higherpurpose, then actually you know
that state? Yeah, you know, it'smore than just rolling out of
bed and going to work, right?
George Anderson (07:24):
Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the great
things about that, where thescience around workplace well
being is going at the moment, islooking at how, instead of
bringing in people to say, well,we need to look after your
resilience and your stresslevels, because we're going to
take every, every ounce ofenergy that you have. So we need
something to top it back upagain. It's actually saying, no,
what if the work you do was oneof the things that fills you up?
(07:47):
What if work is a driver of wellbeing? What if the sense of
purpose and the community thatyou have the people around you,
where you feel like you'resupported, you feel like you
have that autonomy, you're giventhe opportunities to take
control and to use yourinitiative, and that's valued in
your scene. Then for somepeople, work is the only place
they'll have that. And ratherthan going to work for 910,
(08:11):
hours in a day and then cominghome and then and getting it
elsewhere, I really like thisfrom a team perspective and an
organizational culturalperspective, now all of a
sudden, wellbeing is almost abusiness imperative, because
people are and if you were to goto indeed.com, and search for a
job, they'll have the workplacewellbeing score on there. So one
of the first things you see, ifthere's enough data on there for
(08:34):
the company you're looking at.And so the early studies with
this have shown that peopletalent, who are looking to join
organizations are filtering outgreat companies with great
remuneration packages if theydon't have enough of a workplace
wellbeing score.
Jonny Adams (08:48):
I got off the phone this week to a partner who'd
moved from one wealth managementfirm to another wealth
management firm, and theiremployee engagement score is 89%
on this benchmark world employeeengagement score against the 54%
and he said, You know, it's justa polar opposite from where it
was before. And I think that'sdefinitely going to be, you
know, reason why people aregoing to be moving, I would
(09:11):
consider it, you know, in anyfuture employment is the is the
environment.
George Anderson (09:15):
Because beyond the certain points of financial
compensation, it money is notthe biggest motivator for
people. In any study that'sshown that.
Jonny Adams (09:25):
It's all about the maintenance is the salary, and
that aspect, it's interesting. Iwas watching a program on Marks
and Spencers and in the 20thcentury where the individual who
originated Marks Spencersdescribed actually where
people's well being and state ofhealth outside of the their job
in Mark Spencer just wasn't verygood in, you know, 1940s 50s,
(09:48):
60s. So what he did was he gotto employees and say, you know,
you okay, I'm a little bithungry. We haven't got enough
money to buy food outside of ofwork. So then he gave everyone
free breakfasts. But thatelement that when you hear about
their experience at Marks andSpencers, and why it's been such
a great place, is it was thebest social place. They made all
(10:09):
their friends there. They weregiven food or provided food. And
guess what happened to Marks andSpencers? You know, just, just a
booming, booming business for inthe 1960s and 70s. So, yeah.
Matt Best (10:19):
I find all of that really, clearly, it's
increasingly important, I guess,as a leader. And if you think
about the people that you'reworking with, how do if your
leaders are listening to this,and they're looking at their
team and thinking, you know,we're under the cost. We've got
high targets, we've goteverybody's, you know, we've
fully emptied the emotional bankaccount, as it were, across our
(10:42):
employee base. What advice mightyou get? I mean, obviously it's
contextual, but what are some ofthe things that those leaders
could be thinking about? Is itabout, is it through great one
to ones? Is it about offeringthings? I've worked in
organizations before where it'slike, oh, here have a well being
day, and it's like, just felt sotoken. It's like you don't get
choice when you take it. It wasjust like this sort of random.
(11:05):
Everyone just gets a randomMonday off, and it just sort of
it. It was a nice idea andprinciple, but it really didn't
execute well. And if I think, ifyou're thinking as leader,
listening to this, you'rethinking, how can I find
something that's kind ofexecutable with my team that
helps me tap into that. And Ithink there were some things
that we would say aroundunderstanding the real core
(11:25):
motivators and the motivationsof those individuals in your
team. But what would your advicebe, George?
George Anderson (11:31):
There's a number of frameworks and models
actually around what it is thatcreates that culture of
engagement versus burnout. AndChristina Maslach, for example,
is probably one of the world'smost preeminent researchers into
this. So she's retired now. Shewas actually on my podcast a
couple of years ago. I'd read upone of her books, and she looks
(11:52):
at six different drivers ofengagement, the opposite of
which is burnout. So to avoidburnout, drive engagement. So if
you're a leader and you'relooking at, what are some of the
things we can or the areas wecan look then it's things like,
not just workload, because,let's say, as you said, You've
got high workloads. Can't alwaysdo anything about that. But
that's not the biggest driver.It might also be control. Like,
(12:14):
are you allowing asynchronousworking are you allowing people
to work remotely? You know whenthey want that again, that might
not always be feasible, but howmuch control and autonomy do
they have? What about theirvalues compared with the values
of the team? That the livedvalues, not the written values
on the wall in the office? Andit's around fairness. It's
(12:34):
around reward and recognition.And in some of the companies and
teams that I've done consultingwork with on this, and looking
at what is that gap culturelike? Actually, reward and
recognition and fairness comequite high as being some of the
drivers that are creating thisdisengagement and increasingly
perceived pressure and stress.And that might be that somebody
(12:56):
seems to have been given betterconditions than someone else.
They're allowed to work fromhome, and I'm not, so, even
though it might be a legitimatereason, when it's not explained
or transparent, that can startto imbue this sense of distrust
and or just the recognition.Like, if you're a leader who
just has the belief well, like,I just get on with my job. I
don't need any extra reward orrecognition. I just do it and
(13:17):
then go home at the end of theday and feel like, Alright, I've
done it. But if your team needto have that recognition and you
don't see that, then they mightjust that might be all they need
in order to get that sense ofconnection and engagement again.
So it's about understanding whatit is that your team members
need, and where that mismatchesbetween what they're getting and
(13:37):
what their needs are, but, butagain, a bit like with a
mindset, it's a case ofcultivating it. You can't just
snap your fingers and do itovernight. It has to be, has to
be real, and that has to besomething, I think, quite
practical as well the workplacewell being days where you just
have a day off or free fruitFridays or that sort of thing,
it you're still going back intothe same environment. So a lot
(13:58):
of it's about changing thatculture, change that
environment, but small stepsthat are meaningful make the
difference.
Matt Best (14:04):
I was working with a group of leaders recently and on
one of our high performanceleadership habits programs, and
we were talking aboutmotivators, and we were talking
about and how to message it, anda couple of sort of comments
from the team around everyone'skind of find this a bit weird.
When I go back and start askingabout what their motivations
are. I've been a leader for 30years. I haven't asked that
(14:24):
question before, and I thinkit's to your point there. It's
not expecting this to happenovernight with the click of the
fingers, but it's that journey,but recognizing it is the first
is the first point.
George Anderson (14:33):
One of the things that I found to be quite
effective in when I sayeffective, that when I gone back
to teams after delivering theysay that they've embodied this
into their meetings. They'vealready integrated it. And
that's just asking people likehow you doing today, but not
give me an adjective to describehow you're feeling, to measure
it on a scale of one to 10, andif one is struggling and 10 is
(14:53):
thriving or flourishing, likehow you doing today, and people
seem much more willing to justgive you that number five. Out
of 10 today, because then thatopens up the conversations as
to, okay, what have you got onat the moment? Is there anything
like we can help with? Becauseit's probably going to be stuff
that's outside of the workplaceas well that's contributing to
that. But you're having thoseopen conversations a lot more
(15:14):
readily than if you're askingsomeone how they're feeling, and
they go, I'm fine. And then youask them again, and they say,
Don't patronize me. But youknow, which is, we're told we
should ask twice, right? But itstill doesn't really work,
asking someone what their numberis, and even having that as
that's how we start everymeeting. And a lot of teams I've
worked with have started to dothat, it starts to create this
culture of trust, and it's okay.As a leader, wouldn't you want
(15:36):
to know if you've got some ofyour team members who actually
need a little bit of support anda little bit of space, and
because if they keep on pushingthemselves, then you might find
yourself in a real stroke wherethey need to take more time off
so it benefits the leader aswell as the the individual
members of the team as well.
Jonny Adams (15:53):
I advocate that as a leader, the need to important
imperative that you have ahealthy team, because the health
team is going to be, hopefully,as close to 100% versus maybe a
team that's feeling quitediminished in their resilience,
or some type of energy that'slower than normal, actually,
then you only get 60% out ofthem. And your scoring bracket
there, I've actually used thatmy personal life with my wife,
(16:15):
as we've been recently expandedour family, and and we use a
score rating on maybe on a dailybasis, but you know, throughout
the week, because you know howyou feeling, yeah, I'm fine. No,
out of 10, how you feelingtoday, I'm feeling it too. Okay,
right? What can I do to take offyour plate and vice versa? So
it's been really helpful outsideof work as well.
George Anderson (16:35):
Yeah, it's, and it's useful just as a quick
personal check in, even ifyou're not sharing it just to
say, actually, how am I feelingtoday? Instead of plowing
blindly in today, when you'refeeling a little bit out of
sorts, you can maybe analyzethat and think, Well, why do I
feel for today? Well, I didn'tspeak great last night, but also
haven't exercised, or I haven'treally been outside for two or
three days. I need to make sureI prioritize those things, and
(16:57):
it gives you a little bit ofcontrol back as to what you can
do. Or if there's no real reasonwhy you happen to feel like
this, then just maybe try toprotect yourself from things and
jobs and tasks and people whomight just tip you over the edge
a little bit there. So you cando something to be more self
compassionate as well this. Butthere's control. You can take
back and actions you can, youcan, you can deploy.
Matt Best (17:19):
So obviously, we're talking a lot about well being,
motivation, mindset as a whole.But what are those practical
frameworks or tools that youwould provide to your clients or
anyone that you talking to inthat context?
George Anderson (17:35):
Yeah, it's actually really straightforward.
I mean, there's loads of thingsyou could do around wellbeing,
physical well being mental, wellbeing spiritual, well being just
getting outside and getting intonatural environments. But when
you think about physical wellbeing, you can really break it
down into four components, whichI call dash, or dash for
performance. So you've got diet,activity, sleep and hydration.
And I'm almost apologetic therethat it's nothing more
(17:57):
revolutionary than that, but itreally is. It is
straightforward. I'm saying,well, eat better, move around a
little bit more, get more getmore sleep and make sure you're
hydrated, just like the ofcourse. But the real question
isn't what's the informationthat I need, but how do I
implement that? And one of thethings I've done with a lot of
clients is what I call an energyprofile. So if you imagine, you
could do it now, and listenerscan do it as well. If you
(18:17):
imagine what your day lookslike, a typical day, if you're
maybe working from home, or atypical day, if you're working
out of an office or visitingclients. So might be different
per day and and what's yourenergy like at the different
parts of the day? So if youimagine an X and a Y axis, x is
the time, why is the the theenergy you have? Is it low in
the morning and then it takesyou a while, maybe a couple of
(18:38):
hours, to ramp up? Do you get adip in the afternoon? What's it
like in the evening? Like, wheredo you exercise? Do you get you
ready to go for a gym workout ora run, to get that exercise in?
And just getting an idea of whatthat energy profile looks like
means that you can start lookingat, well, where do I need more
energy in my day? And then youcan go to these dash components
(19:01):
and think, Well, okay, whatcould I do in the morning to
give me a bit of the boost?Because actually, it takes me a
couple of three hours to get up.What would give me a boost? And
actually, what am I doing that'sdraining that energy right now?
And is it about having a betterbreakfast or maybe pushing
breakfast out till later in theday and having maybe a slightly
longer fast am I on my phonefirst thing in the morning? And
(19:22):
that sets me off at the backfoot, because I'm looking at
where everyone is demanding ofme today before I've already set
myself up. That's a very commonone, as I'm sure you can
imagine.
Jonny Adams (19:31):
Yeah, I winced as you said, though.
George Anderson (19:34):
But seriously, it's things we do that are just
our default behaviors, and wedon't always connect them to how
we feel. And so part of thiswith the energy profile is
thinking, well, if I don't feelas high energy here as I ought
to, or I know I could do andthat's frustrating, what could I
do? And it might be somethingsimple, like doing a going for a
10 minute walk in the morning. Alot of the groups and the
(19:54):
individuals that I've workedwith who have told me that as
soon as they started putting alittle bit of movement into the
front end of their day. Evensort of full on workout, what a
difference it makes to that, howenergized they feel. And when
we're talking about energy,remember, this is that
foundation from which we canadopt more of a high performance
mindset. We can be moreresilient, we can be more
optimistic and make betterdecisions. And all of those
(20:16):
facets of performance that we'vespoken about already, you can
create that foundation of energyjust by doing two or three
simple things that don't have totake too long. Then that's worth
looking at.
Jonny Adams (20:28):
And just to confirm dash stands for...
George Anderson (20:30):
So we've got diet, activity, sleep and
hydration and sleep. And to behonest with it comes to
performance, I'd say activityand sleep are the two biggest
levers to pull on. And if youare currently pushing your
bedtime routine out till latebecause you're busy, you're, you
know, important work to do, goodemails to send and receive, and,
you know, catching up on a bitor getting a jump on the next
(20:51):
day, and that's compressing thattime frame you have to sleep,
then you're probably doingyourself a disservice there, and
that's going to be having anegative contribution to what
how you feel the next day. Andas I said, we've all had that
experience of having a badnight's sleep, and then the next
day you just feel run down,depleted, low people tolerance,
right? It's just harder to getthrough a day and feel good, let
(21:13):
alone performing well. Soactivity, sleep, they're two
real big ones, and you don'thave to be perfect with it
either. Now think about whatwould be a bit better, that's
way more sustainable, andthinking, right? I've got an
hour ago, from five hours sleepat night to eight hours sleep.
Ain't gonna happen. So you'renot in a sustainable format. But
how could you just build alittle bit of progress and
(21:33):
improving into that.
Matt Best (21:34):
As you're talking about that, and you mentioned
this sort of the exercise in themorning, when I'm out visiting
clients. Obviously, I'm outvisiting clients. I get that
activity. That activity early onin the morning. If I'm working
from home on a Friday, I've gota couple of early calls, which
means I don't get to take thekids to school, and sometimes I
can find myself sat at my deskhaving not been outside at one
(21:56):
o'clock in the afternoon, and Inoticed the difference. I'm
eating exactly the samebreakfast. You know, I've had
exactly the same amount ofsleep, but it's so, it's so kind
of point, and it has such animpact on, like you said, you
know, your effectiveness andyour performance and and, yeah,
I can see sort of first hand howyou sit down in front of that
email at two o'clock and you'relike, Oh, I just just can't do
(22:19):
this right now.
George Anderson (22:19):
But it also brings up that really important
point that so many of us havemore than one sort of rhythm of
the day. So if you're onvisiting clients, you're going
to have this is your a routine.If you're working from home and
you've got a bunch of meetingsin that's your B routine or
structure. So you've got tofigure out the routines and the
habits and the behaviors thatwork for each of those but still
(22:41):
coming back to diet, activity,sleep, hydration, taking breaks.
A lot of people will say they'reeither better at taking breaks
and being more active whenthey're working from home or
when they're working from anoffice, but very few people will
default to being really good inboth of those environments,
unless you pay attention tothem. So if you're occasionally
going into town, you'reoccasionally doing this, and
(23:02):
then all of a sudden thatbecomes more prevalent and more
more frequent. Then it makessense to figure out some
routines for for when you'redoing those things.
Matt Best (23:10):
I love that as a kind of final point of thinking about
that different, because I thinkso often it's like, no, every
Tuesday I'm going to go to thegym, and the practicalities of
that, you know, impossible. Andthen all of a sudden that habits
just broken week two, the secondTuesday that you tried to do it,
and it doesn't work.
George Anderson (23:28):
A habit should serve you, not enslave you.
Having creating habits that areworking for you, you can change.
And this goes back to somethingelse, which, you know, I know
we've spoken about offlinepreviously, which is the idea of
creating an identity based habitrather than a goal based habit,
right? So if you're trying to dosomething, I go into the gym
because I want to lose weight,tone up and get fit, get
(23:48):
healthy. That was what peoplecame to me for and when I was a
PT, and it's not uncommon now,but if you can embody these
habits of I'm the kind of personwho exercises regularly, then
doesn't have to be the gym. Itmight just be that you do a
little 20 minute circuit in yourfront room at 10 o'clock in the
morning. I went in between someof your meetings, but you find a
way to do it. But it doesn'thave to be the same go at the
(24:10):
gym first thing on a Tuesday,because that's not always going
to be possible.
Jonny Adams (24:13):
I knew I was going to enjoy this conversation, and
I have thoroughly enjoyed thisconversation. Thank you, George.
It's been absolutely fantastic.The frameworks is exactly what
we like to provide the audience.There are some phenomenal things
that I think we could all takeaway, and I can definitely take
away, and it's about action andactivity. And you've enthused
me, so I really do appreciateyour time and effort.
George Anderson (24:35):
And I look forward to some higher
performance mindset scores.
Jonny Adams (24:37):
Are you going to text me in six months? Do it
again. Let's see how we go.
Matt Best (24:41):
Brilliant. Yeah, to echo, Jonny's points there.
George it's been fantastic and aload of really great practical
stuff for the audience and forus. So thank you so much for
coming along and joining us onthe Growth Workshop Podcast.
Look forward to seeing againsoon, hopefully.
George Anderson (24:53):
Thank you for having me.
Hello. Welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with
(00:02):
myself, Matt Best and JonnyAdams and part two of our
conversation with GeorgeAnderson.
Jonny Adams (00:07):
George Anderson has got a great background within
personal training and all theway into business and how he
supports individuals grow bothfrom the body side of things and
also from the mindset and thewell being.
Matt Best (00:18):
We talk a lot with our clients about that self talk
element of telling yourself andhaving that internal dialog
that's productive, as opposed toletting it be the thing that
kind of brings you down andpreparing for that. And I think
it's a such an important thing,like what, what you telling
yourself, and how that impactsthe way that you see yourself,
and then the actions and thenthe results.
George Anderson (00:37):
All of this, whether it's motivation,
mindset, resilience, it is, it'snearly all controlled, or at
least massively influenced bythat inner dialog. Like, what
are you saying to yourself, andjust having some awareness of it
and having some alternatives. Sowhat else could you say? What
else could you do? How elsecould you respond that then just
put you into the circle ofcontrol here, rather than the
things you can't control but areof concern to you. So when you
(01:00):
identify that. And the stoicswould would have us believe that
the only thing we can trulycontrol is our reasoned
response, right? So I thinkthat's beautiful, because when
you come back to thatsimplicity, like, well, how can
I respond to this instead ofreact to it? Because maybe I'm
more programmed to, how can Iget into into that step back
from it, and then actuallydecide what that response is
(01:22):
going to be like instead.
Matt Best (01:24):
So the the people, the individuals and the
businesses that you work with,What benefit do they see of from
the work that you do with themin this and and what are those
kind of key leverage, or those,those key kind of levers, I
suppose, for individuals. Imean, we talked about a few of
them there, clearly, but maybeyou could share an example of
where you've of a particularclient or someone that you've
(01:45):
helped in in that situation.
George Anderson (01:48):
Yeah, I think a lot of the work I do still comes
into the bucket of well being,well being and performance, but
it's still, it's still kind ofwell being, and one of the big
challenges there is, especiallywith high performers and sales
professionals as well. Withinthat is that well being has seen
some Well, I time for that,because I've got, I'm busy, I've
got big deadlines. I've got todo this, and I've got to do that
(02:11):
and and that the challenge thereis that we miss this connection
between actually, when you cancreate this, this space, and you
can, you know, you can make evensmall amounts of time for
yourself, or take breaks orlooking after your mindset,
looking after your physical,emotional and mental energy,
then that's actually going toincrease your performance. So it
(02:32):
makes you more resilient. Youmake better decisions. You are
more creative. You can connectbetter with people as well, and
all your listeners andyourselves will will have had
the experience of when you'vebeen really depleted and and how
much harder it is to go throughthe day and feel like you're
performing at your best. So ifwe allow ourselves to get run
down, not only does that put usat risk of burnout, and, you
(02:55):
know, doesn't really give us themost amazing experience of our
lives, but as as highperformers, we can't reach that
potential. And a lot of peopleget frustrated by knowing that
that potential is there, butthey just can't reach it. They
just can't they just haven't gotthe energy to do it. So then it
comes into a what are thehabits, the performances, the
behaviors that they can put intopractice that can, you know,
(03:15):
make that easier to reach thatpotential without it feeling
like an either or well being orperformance?
Jonny Adams (03:20):
Can I unpack the word well being quickly?
Because, because I we talk a lotto Chief Commercial officers,
CEOs about high performance, anda lot of our statement programs
that we've delivered for last 20years is called High Performance
sales habits, or highperformance leadership habits.
And the amount of people we talkto on this podcast about habits,
it's like, yes, we believe in ittoo, but well being, you know? I
(03:43):
mean, I'm going to be quitecynical here, and, you know, HR
own it. It's mandated. What iswell being? I mean, I've worked
as one of my clients was, was afinancial well being
organization, and I was like, Iwish when I was 10 that that
business was around me, becauseI would have not made the
mistake when I was in my 20s andget myself into debt that then
(04:04):
took another three years to getout of debt. And I still talk to
my wife about financial wellbeing, the stress that it brings
me. It's just, you can seealready stressed well being.
What is it?
George Anderson (04:15):
Yeah, it's actually this. This week I've
been working with four differentgroups, and the first thing I've
asked them in these, these daylong courses as being like, what
does well being mean to you? Andagain, do a mind map, and to
spin off and work together insmall groups, and to kind of all
the words that come up. And youget financial well being, you
get spiritual well being, mentalwell being, you get people
(04:35):
talking about, like, physicalhabits that they have, like
getting outside. But there's a,there's a, there's a word that
Gen Z and Gen Jenai are using atthe moment to get into sort of
grounding, like feet on thegrass, bare feet the ground that
are coming what it is nowsomeone listening will know what
it is. But basically this is thelatest thing right around well
(04:56):
being is just making sure you'reoutside, because people are
spending so much time. I'minside, and people are
recognizing now how important itis to get outside as well. I
think that's the thing withwellbeing. It's very individual
as to what you need, and peopleare starting to realize what
they need when they have a lackof it.
Jonny Adams (05:13):
Is there a feeling that I need to get to when I'm
when I'm that's what I'm tryingto establish is because I think
there is, but it's hard todefine it. Sorry, I just I want
to dig a little bit deeper,because you talk about that
feeling. About that feet on theground, that's a lot about
energy. There's been a lot ofwritten about having your body
connecting to the core of theEarth. But is there like a
feeling I need to get to to bein a good state of well being?
George Anderson (05:31):
Yeah, you can have strong physical health and
physical well being, and stillhave all kinds of mental
challenges. And you can be in areally good mindset, mental
state, and have all kinds ofphysical challenges. So it
really is, if you're looking atpositive well being, it's not
just an absence of ill health,mental or physical or otherwise,
(05:51):
it is. It's where you feel likeyou've got this real positive
like it doesn't have to beperfect, but you feel like
you're doing okay. You've gotthe resources that you need the
mental, emotional and physicalresources to do what you need to
do, and still have a little bitof bandwidth left at the end of
that for yourself. And it's astate. It's going to be
different for all of us. I thinkthat's what really came to me
(06:13):
from doing these workshops thisweek, that every group and all
the groups within each of thefour days I did came up with
different understandings of whatwell being did was and and you
get people who are cynical aboutit as well, because you said
it's an HR function. It'ssomething we would tell we have
to do. It's mandatory, and itsometimes it feels like it's
just being forced upon us,whereas really it's an inside
(06:35):
job. It's happiness, not just ahedonistic hahaha, joy, funny
cat videos, type happiness, buta sense of contentment, a sense
of the Greeks used the wordEudaimonia that eudemonic,
happiness, purpose driven. So doyou feel like you're connected
to a sense of meaning andpurpose with the work you're
doing with your family or otherthings that's all part of well
(06:56):
being as well?
Jonny Adams (06:57):
Yeah, we've, for the last three years, we've
delivered a high performanceclient engagement program, which
is we, we dubbed it a worldclass program, but it took many,
many months of observing highperformance in situ, and then we
pulled out all of the behavioraltypes, and then built this
methodology, and we talked a lotabout higher purpose. And you
(07:17):
know, if you know your higherpurpose, then actually you know
that state? Yeah, you know, it'smore than just rolling out of
bed and going to work, right?
George Anderson (07:24):
Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the great
things about that, where thescience around workplace well
being is going at the moment, islooking at how, instead of
bringing in people to say, well,we need to look after your
resilience and your stresslevels, because we're going to
take every, every ounce ofenergy that you have. So we need
something to top it back upagain. It's actually saying, no,
what if the work you do was oneof the things that fills you up?
(07:47):
What if work is a driver of wellbeing? What if the sense of
purpose and the community thatyou have the people around you,
where you feel like you'resupported, you feel like you
have that autonomy, you're giventhe opportunities to take
control and to use yourinitiative, and that's valued in
your scene. Then for somepeople, work is the only place
they'll have that. And ratherthan going to work for 910,
(08:11):
hours in a day and then cominghome and then and getting it
elsewhere, I really like thisfrom a team perspective and an
organizational culturalperspective, now all of a
sudden, wellbeing is almost abusiness imperative, because
people are and if you were to goto indeed.com, and search for a
job, they'll have the workplacewellbeing score on there. So one
of the first things you see, ifthere's enough data on there for
(08:34):
the company you're looking at.And so the early studies with
this have shown that peopletalent, who are looking to join
organizations are filtering outgreat companies with great
remuneration packages if theydon't have enough of a workplace
wellbeing score.
Jonny Adams (08:48):
I got off the phone this week to a partner who'd
moved from one wealth managementfirm to another wealth
management firm, and theiremployee engagement score is 89%
on this benchmark world employeeengagement score against the 54%
and he said, You know, it's justa polar opposite from where it
was before. And I think that'sdefinitely going to be, you
know, reason why people aregoing to be moving, I would
(09:11):
consider it, you know, in anyfuture employment is the is the
environment.
George Anderson (09:15):
Because beyond the certain points of financial
compensation, it money is notthe biggest motivator for
people. In any study that'sshown that.
Jonny Adams (09:25):
It's all about the maintenance is the salary, and
that aspect, it's interesting. Iwas watching a program on Marks
and Spencers and in the 20thcentury where the individual who
originated Marks Spencersdescribed actually where
people's well being and state ofhealth outside of the their job
in Mark Spencer just wasn't verygood in, you know, 1940s 50s,
(09:48):
60s. So what he did was he gotto employees and say, you know,
you okay, I'm a little bithungry. We haven't got enough
money to buy food outside of ofwork. So then he gave everyone
free breakfasts. But thatelement that when you hear about
their experience at Marks andSpencers, and why it's been such
a great place, is it was thebest social place. They made all
(10:09):
their friends there. They weregiven food or provided food. And
guess what happened to Marks andSpencers? You know, just, just a
booming, booming business for inthe 1960s and 70s. So, yeah.
Matt Best (10:19):
I find all of that really, clearly, it's
increasingly important, I guess,as a leader. And if you think
about the people that you'reworking with, how do if your
leaders are listening to this,and they're looking at their
team and thinking, you know,we're under the cost. We've got
high targets, we've goteverybody's, you know, we've
fully emptied the emotional bankaccount, as it were, across our
(10:42):
employee base. What advice mightyou get? I mean, obviously it's
contextual, but what are some ofthe things that those leaders
could be thinking about? Is itabout, is it through great one
to ones? Is it about offeringthings? I've worked in
organizations before where it'slike, oh, here have a well being
day, and it's like, just felt sotoken. It's like you don't get
choice when you take it. It wasjust like this sort of random.
(11:05):
Everyone just gets a randomMonday off, and it just sort of
it. It was a nice idea andprinciple, but it really didn't
execute well. And if I think, ifyou're thinking as leader,
listening to this, you'rethinking, how can I find
something that's kind ofexecutable with my team that
helps me tap into that. And Ithink there were some things
that we would say aroundunderstanding the real core
(11:25):
motivators and the motivationsof those individuals in your
team. But what would your advicebe, George?
George Anderson (11:31):
There's a number of frameworks and models
actually around what it is thatcreates that culture of
engagement versus burnout. AndChristina Maslach, for example,
is probably one of the world'smost preeminent researchers into
this. So she's retired now. Shewas actually on my podcast a
couple of years ago. I'd read upone of her books, and she looks
(11:52):
at six different drivers ofengagement, the opposite of
which is burnout. So to avoidburnout, drive engagement. So if
you're a leader and you'relooking at, what are some of the
things we can or the areas wecan look then it's things like,
not just workload, because,let's say, as you said, You've
got high workloads. Can't alwaysdo anything about that. But
that's not the biggest driver.It might also be control. Like,
(12:14):
are you allowing asynchronousworking are you allowing people
to work remotely? You know whenthey want that again, that might
not always be feasible, but howmuch control and autonomy do
they have? What about theirvalues compared with the values
of the team? That the livedvalues, not the written values
on the wall in the office? Andit's around fairness. It's
(12:34):
around reward and recognition.And in some of the companies and
teams that I've done consultingwork with on this, and looking
at what is that gap culturelike? Actually, reward and
recognition and fairness comequite high as being some of the
drivers that are creating thisdisengagement and increasingly
perceived pressure and stress.And that might be that somebody
(12:56):
seems to have been given betterconditions than someone else.
They're allowed to work fromhome, and I'm not, so, even
though it might be a legitimatereason, when it's not explained
or transparent, that can startto imbue this sense of distrust
and or just the recognition.Like, if you're a leader who
just has the belief well, like,I just get on with my job. I
don't need any extra reward orrecognition. I just do it and
(13:17):
then go home at the end of theday and feel like, Alright, I've
done it. But if your team needto have that recognition and you
don't see that, then they mightjust that might be all they need
in order to get that sense ofconnection and engagement again.
So it's about understanding whatit is that your team members
need, and where that mismatchesbetween what they're getting and
(13:37):
what their needs are, but, butagain, a bit like with a
mindset, it's a case ofcultivating it. You can't just
snap your fingers and do itovernight. It has to be, has to
be real, and that has to besomething, I think, quite
practical as well the workplacewell being days where you just
have a day off or free fruitFridays or that sort of thing,
it you're still going back intothe same environment. So a lot
(13:58):
of it's about changing thatculture, change that
environment, but small stepsthat are meaningful make the
difference.
Matt Best (14:04):
I was working with a group of leaders recently and on
one of our high performanceleadership habits programs, and
we were talking aboutmotivators, and we were talking
about and how to message it, anda couple of sort of comments
from the team around everyone'skind of find this a bit weird.
When I go back and start askingabout what their motivations
are. I've been a leader for 30years. I haven't asked that
(14:24):
question before, and I thinkit's to your point there. It's
not expecting this to happenovernight with the click of the
fingers, but it's that journey,but recognizing it is the first
is the first point.
George Anderson (14:33):
One of the things that I found to be quite
effective in when I sayeffective, that when I gone back
to teams after delivering theysay that they've embodied this
into their meetings. They'vealready integrated it. And
that's just asking people likehow you doing today, but not
give me an adjective to describehow you're feeling, to measure
it on a scale of one to 10, andif one is struggling and 10 is
(14:53):
thriving or flourishing, likehow you doing today, and people
seem much more willing to justgive you that number five. Out
of 10 today, because then thatopens up the conversations as
to, okay, what have you got onat the moment? Is there anything
like we can help with? Becauseit's probably going to be stuff
that's outside of the workplaceas well that's contributing to
that. But you're having thoseopen conversations a lot more
(15:14):
readily than if you're askingsomeone how they're feeling, and
they go, I'm fine. And then youask them again, and they say,
Don't patronize me. But youknow, which is, we're told we
should ask twice, right? But itstill doesn't really work,
asking someone what their numberis, and even having that as
that's how we start everymeeting. And a lot of teams I've
worked with have started to dothat, it starts to create this
culture of trust, and it's okay.As a leader, wouldn't you want
(15:36):
to know if you've got some ofyour team members who actually
need a little bit of support anda little bit of space, and
because if they keep on pushingthemselves, then you might find
yourself in a real stroke wherethey need to take more time off
so it benefits the leader aswell as the the individual
members of the team as well.
Jonny Adams (15:53):
I advocate that as a leader, the need to important
imperative that you have ahealthy team, because the health
team is going to be, hopefully,as close to 100% versus maybe a
team that's feeling quitediminished in their resilience,
or some type of energy that'slower than normal, actually,
then you only get 60% out ofthem. And your scoring bracket
there, I've actually used thatmy personal life with my wife,
(16:15):
as we've been recently expandedour family, and and we use a
score rating on maybe on a dailybasis, but you know, throughout
the week, because you know howyou feeling, yeah, I'm fine. No,
out of 10, how you feelingtoday, I'm feeling it too. Okay,
right? What can I do to take offyour plate and vice versa? So
it's been really helpful outsideof work as well.
George Anderson (16:35):
Yeah, it's, and it's useful just as a quick
personal check in, even ifyou're not sharing it just to
say, actually, how am I feelingtoday? Instead of plowing
blindly in today, when you'refeeling a little bit out of
sorts, you can maybe analyzethat and think, Well, why do I
feel for today? Well, I didn'tspeak great last night, but also
haven't exercised, or I haven'treally been outside for two or
three days. I need to make sureI prioritize those things, and
(16:57):
it gives you a little bit ofcontrol back as to what you can
do. Or if there's no real reasonwhy you happen to feel like
this, then just maybe try toprotect yourself from things and
jobs and tasks and people whomight just tip you over the edge
a little bit there. So you cando something to be more self
compassionate as well this. Butthere's control. You can take
back and actions you can, youcan, you can deploy.
Matt Best (17:19):
So obviously, we're talking a lot about well being,
motivation, mindset as a whole.But what are those practical
frameworks or tools that youwould provide to your clients or
anyone that you talking to inthat context?
George Anderson (17:35):
Yeah, it's actually really straightforward.
I mean, there's loads of thingsyou could do around wellbeing,
physical well being mental, wellbeing spiritual, well being just
getting outside and getting intonatural environments. But when
you think about physical wellbeing, you can really break it
down into four components, whichI call dash, or dash for
performance. So you've got diet,activity, sleep and hydration.
And I'm almost apologetic therethat it's nothing more
(17:57):
revolutionary than that, but itreally is. It is
straightforward. I'm saying,well, eat better, move around a
little bit more, get more getmore sleep and make sure you're
hydrated, just like the ofcourse. But the real question
isn't what's the informationthat I need, but how do I
implement that? And one of thethings I've done with a lot of
clients is what I call an energyprofile. So if you imagine, you
could do it now, and listenerscan do it as well. If you
(18:17):
imagine what your day lookslike, a typical day, if you're
maybe working from home, or atypical day, if you're working
out of an office or visitingclients. So might be different
per day and and what's yourenergy like at the different
parts of the day? So if youimagine an X and a Y axis, x is
the time, why is the the theenergy you have? Is it low in
the morning and then it takesyou a while, maybe a couple of
(18:38):
hours, to ramp up? Do you get adip in the afternoon? What's it
like in the evening? Like, wheredo you exercise? Do you get you
ready to go for a gym workout ora run, to get that exercise in?
And just getting an idea of whatthat energy profile looks like
means that you can start lookingat, well, where do I need more
energy in my day? And then youcan go to these dash components
(19:01):
and think, Well, okay, whatcould I do in the morning to
give me a bit of the boost?Because actually, it takes me a
couple of three hours to get up.What would give me a boost? And
actually, what am I doing that'sdraining that energy right now?
And is it about having a betterbreakfast or maybe pushing
breakfast out till later in theday and having maybe a slightly
longer fast am I on my phonefirst thing in the morning? And
(19:22):
that sets me off at the backfoot, because I'm looking at
where everyone is demanding ofme today before I've already set
myself up. That's a very commonone, as I'm sure you can
imagine.
Jonny Adams (19:31):
Yeah, I winced as you said, though.
George Anderson (19:34):
But seriously, it's things we do that are just
our default behaviors, and wedon't always connect them to how
we feel. And so part of thiswith the energy profile is
thinking, well, if I don't feelas high energy here as I ought
to, or I know I could do andthat's frustrating, what could I
do? And it might be somethingsimple, like doing a going for a
10 minute walk in the morning. Alot of the groups and the
(19:54):
individuals that I've workedwith who have told me that as
soon as they started putting alittle bit of movement into the
front end of their day. Evensort of full on workout, what a
difference it makes to that, howenergized they feel. And when
we're talking about energy,remember, this is that
foundation from which we canadopt more of a high performance
mindset. We can be moreresilient, we can be more
optimistic and make betterdecisions. And all of those
(20:16):
facets of performance that we'vespoken about already, you can
create that foundation of energyjust by doing two or three
simple things that don't have totake too long. Then that's worth
looking at.
Jonny Adams (20:28):
And just to confirm dash stands for...
George Anderson (20:30):
So we've got diet, activity, sleep and
hydration and sleep. And to behonest with it comes to
performance, I'd say activityand sleep are the two biggest
levers to pull on. And if youare currently pushing your
bedtime routine out till latebecause you're busy, you're, you
know, important work to do, goodemails to send and receive, and,
you know, catching up on a bitor getting a jump on the next
(20:51):
day, and that's compressing thattime frame you have to sleep,
then you're probably doingyourself a disservice there, and
that's going to be having anegative contribution to what
how you feel the next day. Andas I said, we've all had that
experience of having a badnight's sleep, and then the next
day you just feel run down,depleted, low people tolerance,
right? It's just harder to getthrough a day and feel good, let
(21:13):
alone performing well. Soactivity, sleep, they're two
real big ones, and you don'thave to be perfect with it
either. Now think about whatwould be a bit better, that's
way more sustainable, andthinking, right? I've got an
hour ago, from five hours sleepat night to eight hours sleep.
Ain't gonna happen. So you'renot in a sustainable format. But
how could you just build alittle bit of progress and
(21:33):
improving into that.
Matt Best (21:34):
As you're talking about that, and you mentioned
this sort of the exercise in themorning, when I'm out visiting
clients. Obviously, I'm outvisiting clients. I get that
activity. That activity early onin the morning. If I'm working
from home on a Friday, I've gota couple of early calls, which
means I don't get to take thekids to school, and sometimes I
can find myself sat at my deskhaving not been outside at one
(21:56):
o'clock in the afternoon, and Inoticed the difference. I'm
eating exactly the samebreakfast. You know, I've had
exactly the same amount ofsleep, but it's so, it's so kind
of point, and it has such animpact on, like you said, you
know, your effectiveness andyour performance and and, yeah,
I can see sort of first hand howyou sit down in front of that
email at two o'clock and you'relike, Oh, I just just can't do
(22:19):
this right now.
George Anderson (22:19):
But it also brings up that really important
point that so many of us havemore than one sort of rhythm of
the day. So if you're onvisiting clients, you're going
to have this is your a routine.If you're working from home and
you've got a bunch of meetingsin that's your B routine or
structure. So you've got tofigure out the routines and the
habits and the behaviors thatwork for each of those but still
(22:41):
coming back to diet, activity,sleep, hydration, taking breaks.
A lot of people will say they'reeither better at taking breaks
and being more active whenthey're working from home or
when they're working from anoffice, but very few people will
default to being really good inboth of those environments,
unless you pay attention tothem. So if you're occasionally
going into town, you'reoccasionally doing this, and
(23:02):
then all of a sudden thatbecomes more prevalent and more
more frequent. Then it makessense to figure out some
routines for for when you'redoing those things.
Matt Best (23:10):
I love that as a kind of final point of thinking about
that different, because I thinkso often it's like, no, every
Tuesday I'm going to go to thegym, and the practicalities of
that, you know, impossible. Andthen all of a sudden that habits
just broken week two, the secondTuesday that you tried to do it,
and it doesn't work.
George Anderson (23:28):
A habit should serve you, not enslave you.
Having creating habits that areworking for you, you can change.
And this goes back to somethingelse, which, you know, I know
we've spoken about offlinepreviously, which is the idea of
creating an identity based habitrather than a goal based habit,
right? So if you're trying to dosomething, I go into the gym
because I want to lose weight,tone up and get fit, get
(23:48):
healthy. That was what peoplecame to me for and when I was a
PT, and it's not uncommon now,but if you can embody these
habits of I'm the kind of personwho exercises regularly, then
doesn't have to be the gym. Itmight just be that you do a
little 20 minute circuit in yourfront room at 10 o'clock in the
morning. I went in between someof your meetings, but you find a
way to do it. But it doesn'thave to be the same go at the
(24:10):
gym first thing on a Tuesday,because that's not always going
to be possible.
Jonny Adams (24:13):
I knew I was going to enjoy this conversation, and
I have thoroughly enjoyed thisconversation. Thank you, George.
It's been absolutely fantastic.The frameworks is exactly what
we like to provide the audience.There are some phenomenal things
that I think we could all takeaway, and I can definitely take
away, and it's about action andactivity. And you've enthused
me, so I really do appreciateyour time and effort.
George Anderson (24:35):
And I look forward to some higher
performance mindset scores.
Jonny Adams (24:37):
Are you going to text me in six months? Do it
again. Let's see how we go.
Matt Best (24:41):
Brilliant. Yeah, to echo, Jonny's points there.
George it's been fantastic and aload of really great practical
stuff for the audience and forus. So thank you so much for
coming along and joining us onthe Growth Workshop Podcast.
Look forward to seeing againsoon, hopefully.
George Anderson (24:53):
Thank you for having me.
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