In Episode 20 of The GSE Podcast, host Matt Weitzel moderates an insightful panel discussion on the electrification and sustainability of ground support equipment (GSE). Recorded live from a special event, this episode brings together experts from various sectors to share their perspectives and strategies for a greener future in aviation.
Guest Discussions:
Brad Compton, Director of Sales at Textron, discusses the progress in electrification from a supplier's perspective. Brad highlights the advances in lithium battery technology and the increasing percentage of electric GSE in their product line, focusing on the challenges and opportunities in infrastructure development.
David Farias, Vice President of Fleet North America at Swissport, talks about Swissport's electrification goals and the significant role of infrastructure in achieving them. David outlines their goal of having 55% electric GSE by the decade's end and the collaborative efforts needed to reach this milestone.
Marty Gray, Director of GSE and Maintenance at Air Canada, emphasizes the company's commitment to reducing emissions by 30% by 2030 and achieving net zero by 2050. Marty discusses the company's strategy to electrify specific fleet types and the importance of partnering with authorities to drive these initiatives.
Josh Parkin, Senior Sales Manager at Oshkosh Aerotech, shares insights on developments in electric and hydrogen fuel cell technology. Josh explains how Oshkosh is exploring modular hydrogen distribution systems and the significance of standardizing charging infrastructure to facilitate the adoption of electric GSE.
Gabe Sampson, President at Averest, provides a perspective on the supply of charging infrastructure over the past 20 years. Gabe highlights the shift in procurement responsibilities from airlines to airport authorities and the collaborative efforts required to meet corporate environmental goals.
Todd Ernst, Director of Energy and Environment at Greater Toronto Airports Authority, discusses the challenges and opportunities in upgrading airport infrastructure to support electrification. Todd outlines Toronto Pearson's plans to expand its electric charging capacity by 2030 significantly.
Erwan Jalil, Group Chief Operating Officer at TLD, addresses the complexity of standardizing charging protocols and the need for software compatibility to enhance operational flexibility. Erwan also touches on the potential of hybrid technologies and the importance of decoupling infrastructure from capital expenditure decisions.
Tune in to this episode for an in-depth look at the strategies and innovations driving the future of sustainable GSE. Learn from industry leaders as they navigate the challenges of electrification, infrastructure, and adopting alternative energy sources.
Listen now to stay ahead in the world of ground support equipment!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matthew Weitzel (00:07):
Celebrating 10 years of trailblazing in ground
support exceed marks a decade asyour leading partner in ground
support equipment leasing at theforefront of both short term and
long term leasing solutionsexceed adapt to your unique
operational needs. Whetheryou're ramping up for peak
season or planning for long termgrowth, we provide the right
(00:27):
equipment to keep youroperations running smoothly.
This anniversary we renew ourdedication to empowering your
ground operations withefficiency and innovation. With
exceed you're equipped forsuccess today. In prepared for
the challenges of tomorrow.
Exceed driving excellence on theground year after year. Explore
more at exceed gsc.com.
Alice Clarke (00:54):
Good morning from San Juan Tay. This is Alice
Clark from JH AI and you arelistening to the GSC podcast the
day after the gala dinner.
Max Gosney (01:05):
Ladies and gentlemen, this session is going
to be recorded as a podcast ofthe GRC podcast and delighted to
welcome up Matt, Matt Weitzel,who's the host of the JSC
podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, Ihave your attention round of
applause Matt, please.
(01:28):
So it's a great honor to berecording this next session with
Matt and it will feature or asan episode of the podcast. I'm
sure everyone out there knowsthe show and listening. So thank
you very much, Matt.
Matthew Weitzel (01:39):
Yeah, thanks a lot. All right, we got Oh, man,
this is great. Yeah, so thanks alot for coming. This is going to
be a special live edition of theGSC podcasts. And thanks to Max
and GH i for having me up here.
And we're going to talk someelectrification, we
Max Gosney (01:54):
also keep the language clean, ladies and gents
is live. So I've got to keepthis one. Keep this one
straight. But just to say you wewill do want your questions come
in as we're having thisdiscussion. I'll pick them up on
the ad we'll put the the app'siPad even. And we'll put the
question slide up. So send someof your questions in as we're
talking. The topic as Matt saysis sustainability, the
electrification electrificationof the Americas apron, and I
(02:17):
will now welcome up thepanelists. We will get things
underway. So first up, could Iinvite Brad Compton, Director of
Sales at Textron Welcome
Matthew Weitzel (02:32):
back thanks a lot.
Max Gosney (02:34):
We have Marty Marty Gray, who's director of GRC and
maintenance at Air Canada.
Welcome up, Marty.
Matthew Weitzel (02:46):
Thanks a lot, Marty.
Max Gosney (02:47):
Next up, could Josh Josh Parkin, come back to the
stage is with us this morning.
He's senior sales manager at newtechnology products at Oshkosh.
Aerotech Welcome back, Josh.
Matthew Weitzel (03:01):
Thanks, buddy.
Okay.
Max Gosney (03:04):
And next up, we have Gabriel Gabriel Sampson, who is
president at aborist. Welcomeup, Gabriel.
Matthew Weitzel (03:15):
Thank you.
Thanks.
Max Gosney (03:17):
And next we have David David Ferris, who is vice
president fleet North America atSwissport. Welcome up, David.
I'd like to welcome up next Ohwind Jaleel, who is Group Chief
Operating Officer at TLD. Oh,and welcome up.
(03:41):
And next up we have Todd ToddErnst, who is Director of Energy
and Environment greater torontoAirports Authority. Welcome up
to I believe that is everyone.
We were expecting. We've got amixture here of manufacturers,
we have an airport, we haveground handler we have an
(04:02):
airline. So we've got the fullgambit of the supply chain to
talk to us about this bigchallenge of becoming more
sustainable electrification, orother greener power sources. Map
and I will hand to you oranything I'll say all I'll get
things underway.
Matthew Weitzel (04:17):
Now. Let's get it underway. Yes, got it. Great.
Thank
Max Gosney (04:19):
you see flick through his pages to the first
questions that I sent through.
So to open it up to the panel.
What are your future GSE fleetstrategies and what percentage
of your GSE will be electric bythe end of the decade?
Matthew Weitzel (04:36):
All right, Brad, you want to go and rob
Bradley, just because
Brad Compton (04:39):
I'm down here at the end? Yeah, yeah, we're gonna
Okay. So in terms ofelectrification, from a supplier
standpoint, manufacturerstandpoint, I think everyone has
made so much progress when youreference 2019 to now. I think
lithium is the key we have formanufacturing standpoint, we're
about 65% Electric Rick thisyear, and mainly that's on our
(05:02):
belt loaders. But I think if youlook at every supplier, a lot of
the manufacturers, they'll say,I would guess, above 50%. But I
think we're gonna get a lotheavier on that percentage as we
get into the next couple ofyears here. It will
infrastructure is gonna catchup. But I think the signals we
see from our customers areleaning that direction. So yeah,
we're above 50%. I think justgonna keep growing up
Max Gosney (05:24):
or come to David, for this question.
David Farias (05:27):
Yeah. So on our end, I think right now we're
about 22%. Electric, globally,we'd like to get to by the end
of the decade, but 55%, that'sour corporate goal. But at the
end of the day, infrastructureplays a major role inside of
that, and how we get to thatpoint, but we've got some good
partners here, that apparentlyare trying to make a little bit
smoother with transition. Sothank
Max Gosney (05:49):
you, Marty, perhaps bring you bring you in on this
one.
Marty Gray (05:53):
or Canada, we've made some significant
commitments for 30%, reductionby 2030, and net zero by 2050.
So we need to be aggressive onthe way we get there. I don't
know if I would say, you know,full percentage of the fleet to
be electrified, but ratherspecific fleet types where we
know where it's proven. Andwe're very, very comfortable
with who we've aligned ourselveswith four belt loaders bag
(06:16):
tractors. As we see evolutionand other fleet types. I think
we'll probably take advantage ofit at that time. But I mean, we
are fully committed. And he'sclimate objectives.
Max Gosney (06:28):
So a lot of desire and commitment increases are
actually committed, asreferenced by David. So it kind
of leads to my next questionaround infrastructure. So who is
currently providing theleadership and impetus in
electrification of airports inthe region? And who would you
like to step up to take a moreproactive approach to deliver
the electrification andinfrastructure that we need? I
Todd Ernst (06:49):
can start with that, I guess your HIPAA? Yeah. So I
don't know if there's a singleclear leader, I think everybody
has started stepping up, really,whether it's the you know, the
airports, Grant handlers,airlines, what have you, you
know, the move to electrifies ishas picked up dramatically in in
recent years, where I thinkthere's a bit of a gap right
(07:10):
now, you know, not to have myhead out to the government. But,
you know, there's lots ofgovernment incentive for
groundside electrification, andthere's a gap when you start to
move aracite to non platedequipment.
Max Gosney (07:22):
So, Marty, I see nodding along as those comments
are made by Todd.
Marty Gray (07:28):
I would say, I mean, we need partners in the
authorities, and certainly someprovincial advocates to drive
these initiatives for sure. Ifyou look at where we are today,
and you and if you went back andtook a snapshot of where we were
this time, last year, I mean,there were plenty of airports,
Canadian airports that had zeroinfrastructure, you know, and if
(07:50):
you fast forward to today, theyhave done a tremendous job in
installing buildinginfrastructure to support what
we have taken delivery of. So Ithink, you know, as as the
airport's progress ininfrastructure, construction
implementation, it's just kindof aligning itself with the
supply chain of equipment. Andright now, we're in a fortunate
(08:11):
position. But we must continueto just keep driving these
initiatives with with ourpartners,
Matthew Weitzel (08:17):
and then gave a think that you can maybe help
bridge that gap a little bit,right? Yeah, sure. So
Gabe Sampson (08:22):
we've been supplying charging
infrastructure to this industryfor 20 years now. And we've
definitely seen a change inwho's procuring that equipment.
I think everybody's right, thatthe who's leading that decision
kind of varies based on themarket, the airport, the
location, the airlines, but, youknow, 20 years ago, the airlines
were buying charginginfrastructure and having it
installed at their gates atairports to support their
(08:44):
electric GSE. Whereas now,they're definitely leaning more
towards trying to get theauthorities the airport
authorities or the seas or thestates to provide that
infrastructure for them, likeMarty indicated. So I think it's
a joint effort of airlineparticipation and training for
them trying to meet theircorporate environmental goals.
And then the airport's trying tosupport that and also meet maybe
(09:04):
some of their own environmentalgoals. So it's definitely more
of a partnership now, and it'sever been,
Marty Gray (09:09):
it's great that we have all these aligned targets,
if you look at what our mandatesare, are between 2002 now and
2030 is very, very commonfootwear seeing, you know, the
airport. So we're all strivingfor that common goal, which is
certainly beneficial to all ofus. Yeah,
Todd Ernst (09:22):
our GHG goals are actually pretty closely aligned.
We're shooting for net zero by2050 45% reduction versus 2010
by 2030. That's our scope oneand two, but we're looking to
support our partners for thescope three reductions. Two.
Max Gosney (09:36):
Thank you. Questions come in from the audience.
Thanks for the first question,which our standardization is
critical to adoption success. Doyou see a change when
manufacturing teams can agree ona single charge plug type,
similar to the Eevee carindustry? Not doing this also
hampers infrastructure asmultiple vendors at a site may
have different plug needs? I'll
Brad Compton (09:57):
certainly say that's very difficult for us
now. There's many Many options,it's hard for us to keep track,
one customer could have threedifferent sets of plugins for
the infrastructure per city. Soit gets a little difficult. If
you can standardize that, thatwould be super huge from a
manufacturing standpoint, from
Josh Parkin (10:15):
an Oshkosh perspective of degree. We see a
lot of variability not just herein the Americas, but around the
world. And we're having toadapt. And of course, that's
ultimately what we do. We listento what the customer needs are.
But from a consistencystandpoint and help I know,
there's a lot of work going on,both in the SAE conference as
well as IATA to try to work andput some suggestions out there.
So people can standardize some,but there's a lot of work to do
(10:37):
on that front for sure.
Max Gosney (10:38):
Oh, and you give us a tale de vos
Erwan Jalil (10:40):
to confirm. I think it's a big driver of complexity
today. It's not only the thehardware, but also the software.
So charger, communicationprotocols that don't speak the
same language make essentially,the flexibility in the operation
extremely difficult to handle.
So it is today an issue and somecountries have figured it out.
Thinking about China, which isthe only place today where you
(11:02):
have standards forelectrification. And I think the
rest of the world needs needs tomove in that direction
Max Gosney (11:09):
is that from a Swissport perspective, from a
handers perspective, David hasthat as our challenge having
multiple plugs on
David Farias (11:15):
limits our options and where we're where we can
read pivot equipment. So at theend of the day, without that
charger, infrastructure aligned,and that protocol not in place
that does limit our ability tomove equipment around. So yeah,
we'd love nothing more than tobe have some additional
alignment there. That
Erwan Jalil (11:30):
said, there are some solutions that as
manufacturers we're working on.
So for instance, the ability torecognize different protocols
automatically. That's notsomething overly difficult to
do. So in then I think in theUS, we're seeing a move towards,
you know, CCS as a standardplug. So I think there are ways
to converge fast withoutnecessarily the regulator
(11:51):
imposing new standards on us,but it is going to take us to
work collectively on this.
Brad Compton (11:58):
I think the infrastructure is going more
high voltage as well. And Ithink that's could be the future
of the airport. And that wouldalign more with the automotive
industry, is what we're seeing.
But yeah, there's a lot of workto be done in terms of
standardization.
Max Gosney (12:11):
Thank you, Tom to you. We know many panels we've
held at JH eyes and and oftenthere is a comment around
frustrations about theinfrastructure and the lack of
infrastructure for electriccharging at airports. Can you
give us an Airport's perspectiveon this and just some of the
scope of the challenge andtrying to map to demand amongst
your stakeholders? Yeah,
Todd Ernst (12:32):
sure. Happy to how much time? Do I have?
Max Gosney (12:35):
49 minutes? 21 seconds? Yeah, no,
Todd Ernst (12:38):
I look, we're all working towards the same thing.
At the end of the day, like you,we all we all have our own
carbon reduction targets. We'reall looking to move people,
planes and bags as efficientlyas we possibly can, you know,
Toronto Pearson? Well, before mytime, I think it might be about
20 years ago, when we put thefirst GSC chargers airside. And
(12:59):
we've got about 80 or so, andquickly building out to just
over 100, and then it's going toexpand by a couple of times, at
least going forward from there.
So going the, although theactivity curve is smooth and
steady, but the curve forinfrastructure is like a
sawtooth, right? You build stuffand sometimes you overbill like
(13:21):
we did many years ago, and thenthen you get to a point where
you're a plateau and you'reunder the curve for a while. So
that's that's really thechallenge with infrastructure is
you can't scale it up, generallyspeaking as smoothly as the
activity ramps up. So we need towork closely together to
understand the timings and beable to match the supply with
(13:42):
demand as efficiently as wepossibly can.
Max Gosney (13:46):
And inevitably, inevitably, there'll be a lag, I
guess, between the supply anddemand.
Todd Ernst (13:51):
Yeah, there'll be some lags and the but there are
some tools also to help toaddress legs, you know, for
instance, CEO, portable chargingsolutions, battery technologies
and whatnot that are out thereto help bridge that gap. So I
don't think all is lost, youknow, will will be able to keep
up. It just won't be all withfixed static electrical
(14:13):
infrastructure.
Max Gosney (14:14):
Perhaps if I can come to you guys, if we are if
battery technology can help playa part whilst the infrastructure
is catching up interest to getyour, your views on on what's
out there and sort ofdevelopments and innovation in
the battery technology arena.
Gabe Sampson (14:27):
Yeah, sure. So specifically in reference to
chargers, so there's a there's alot of work underway to add
batteries to charging systemsthat can help shed the load,
even out the duty cycle from thefacilities point of view, mobile
charging platforms, you know,that might have onboard battery
storage that can be charged upand off peak times and then and
(14:49):
then parked remotely to rechargeGSC at a different time of the
day. So I think there's a lot ofeffort underway right now. I
think within months, certainlywithin a year you're going to
start to see a lot of thoseproducts roll out I don't think
from an airport facilityperspective, I would assume you
guys and a lot of other airportsare looking at, at building
battery storage systems into thebuilding that can then you know,
(15:10):
store energy that can beredistributed to electric GSE or
EVs anywhere else, you know, youhad solar panels so that you can
start harnessing energy from thesun. So the same battery
technology that's powering thevehicles is also being looked at
to help solve the infrastructureproblem we all have, and we all
deal with every day. Yeah, no,
Todd Ernst (15:27):
that's a great point. I mean, it's it's not the
energy challenge isn't justground support equipment
electrification. So, you know,in the case of Toronto Pearson,
we're already in a gridconstrained area. The peak
demand is around about 40megawatts or so. With
electrification and facilitygrowth and increases and air
traffic over the coming years,you know, that demand is going
(15:49):
to more than double. So we'regonna get to more like 80 100
megawatts of demand in aconstrained area with
infrastructure that we're in theprocess of upgrading. But we do
need to take a an energyecosystem approach where we are
looking at how solar how batteryhow even hydrogen and other
alternatives to electrons canall fit together to make this
(16:11):
work efficiently.
Max Gosney (16:12):
We talked about electric and you are to the age
where the hydrogen word for thefirst time I'll just be
interested to throw open ifthere is this lag, this
challenge around infrastructure,what opportunities to the panel
think there are for otheralternative sustainable fuel
sources hydrogen, biofuels beinterested to get some views
Joshi caught my eye at the wrongminute.
Josh Parkin (16:30):
Yeah, sure. So Oshkosh certainly isn't new to
the electrification game, we'vehad electric GSC, since the
1960s, or their electricproduct. And we've seen that
expansion and we haveexperimented with some others
zero emission solutions,hydrogen included, it's
definitely come a long ways,from our perspective, we're very
comfortable with the hydrogenfuel cell technology, very safe,
(16:50):
very reliable. And that I think,is the point that Max is making,
just like electric thatchallenge will be in terms of
infrastructure distribution, theapproach that we've taken is
looking at it from a modularperspective, and similar to
maybe your your propane grill athome, instead of you just
replaced the modular tank. Andso we're going to be partnering
(17:11):
with a company for modulardistribution of hydrogen to
bring hydrogen to the operationsto simplify that, and hopefully
accelerate the ability to tolook at some alternative energy
in addition to to electric butto have have hydrogen as well.
So there'll be an option thatwe're exploring in GSC, but also
in our mobile charging platform,the amp cart, oh, and
Max Gosney (17:32):
how, you know, but how much of a proportion Do you
think hydrogen will make up ofTLDs proposition in years to
come?
Erwan Jalil (17:39):
It's hard to say I think hydrogen will depend a lot
on clean, affordableinfrastructure being available
locally at the airport. And youknow, that's going to be mostly
country bets, where maybe Saudi,for instance, will be one of
those places in the world. Butit to complement this hydrogen
alternative, one of the thingswe've introduced is hybrid
technologies, which allowessentially to decouple the
(18:01):
phasing of this infrastructurethat we were talking about,
which may be lagging to thecapex decisions that you need to
make today to replace agingfleets, and essentially buys you
some time, still making animpact on your on your carbon
footprint, fuel efficiency,safety in the approach of the
aircraft, while giving you thetime you need in order to get
the chargers in place. Sothere's different ways to
(18:22):
address that challenge today.
And that's just one of them.
Max Gosney (18:25):
Brat from a Textron perspective,
Brad Compton (18:28):
I think, you know, electrification is probably the
most popular, they're the rockstar right now. And I hydrogen
is kind of looking around thecorner peeking its way in a
little bit. I know there's gonnabe challenges around that
infrastructure as well. Andalthough we're we're always
looking for the next best thing,but we can't do it in a vacuum.
We've got to get the feedbackfrom our customers from the
ecosystem that we live in theairports included. But yeah, I
(18:50):
think we're, again, we're notfast lane electrification. And
we know there's going to besomething next and that could be
hydrogen, and that could go kindof fall back on hybrid vehicles.
So certainly, yeah. And we'rejust looking at, you know, all
vehicles, not necessarilytalking tractors, or belt
loaders, you know, you got totake that next step into the de
icing and these other vehiclesthat you can electrify so. Yeah,
(19:12):
I would say that there's gonnabe another one, but just make
sure we master theelectrification. First question
Max Gosney (19:17):
that's come in the OS are lithium batteries, just a
stepping stone because you haveenvironmental challenges the
sustainability of getting holdof the lithium and then
recycling it? So is the lithiumbattery and electrification as
as sustainable as we mightthink. You've
Erwan Jalil (19:35):
got different chemistries? So I think
generally speaking in the, inthe GSE world, we tend to use
LFP. So lithium phosphate, firstchemistry, which is much cleaner
than the neacail Martinez, NMCcobalt chemistry. It's also much
safer from a thermal behaviorstandpoint. So I think as long
(19:57):
as you know you, you avoid theuse of Nikko and McGinnis which
are the most doubtful componentsin terms of the carbon footprint
of lithium ion technology,you're doing pretty well, from a
environmental standpoint.
Gabe Sampson (20:10):
Totally agree, by the way, but I mean, to answer
the question a little moredirectly, I would say yes, I
think lithium batteries are justa stepping stone. You know, we,
we lived in a world for many,many years where everything was
powered by lead acid batteries,right. And that's a, that is, by
the way, very, very sustainableproduct, lead acid batteries are
the most recycled product on theplanet, the entire battery can
be recycled down to the lead andthe acid, the steel, everything,
(20:32):
so but it's also a very matureproduct, right? It's been around
for, you know, I don't know, 100years or so let's say. But as
demand for powering vehicles hasincreased, the lead acid battery
has kind of met its capacity andperformance. So lithium has had
to step in and fill those roles.
It is pretty sustainable. Um,there's still some problems to
be solved with Floridacyclability. But I do believe
it's just a stepping stone.
(20:55):
There's so much there's so muchdevelopment battery technology
today, you'd be a fool to thinkthat in 10 years, there's not
going to be three or four otherdifferent chemistries of
batteries that have that are nowattractive to this market and,
and maybe powering differenttypes of vehicles.
Max Gosney (21:08):
That's interesting.
Can you enlighten us on some ofthose alternatives? Some of the
things that might be a steppingstone to I mean, I've heard of
so so disodium. But yeah, yeah,
Gabe Sampson (21:14):
sodium ion batteries is a rapidly improving
technology that's going to bereadily available in coming
years. It's sort of availabletoday. We're certainly testing
it in our facility for certainapplications and has, it has a
lot of promise, you know, youhear reference of, of solid
state batteries, you hearreferences of lithium batteries
with different electrolytechemistries that can do
different things. So we're verysmall, right? If you look at
(21:37):
what we do as a GSE, industry,in terms of the battery world,
we're a blip on the map, right?
If we all went away, and weweren't buying electric GE
anymore, the battery industrywouldn't miss us. There's so
much there's so much biggeropportunities. That's where the
development opportunities aregoing to be focused in will
ultimately benefit from that,for sure. Anyone else
Max Gosney (21:55):
wants to comment on lithium and battery technology
in their fleets. Now, your headsgo back, no one's no one's going
to take that one on? How wouldthe panel like to see the supply
chain? You're sharing the costof investment and adoption of
more sustainable GSC to getalignment and to speed, the
(22:15):
rollout of more sustainableequipment? And can adoption ever
be coordinated? When you havethe supply chain? And component
parts of supply chain are incompetition, different airlines,
different ground handlers? Sohow do we align better on our on
sharing some of the cost ofimplementing new technology
forms game,
Gabe Sampson (22:34):
I think it goes back to what Marty said earlier.
I mean, it's it's thepartnership between the airlines
and airports, right? If theairports and they are already
doing it, but if they continuetheir efforts to provide
charging infrastructure, thenthat makes the justification for
an airline to buy electric GSE ano brainer, you don't have to
invest that cash and chargersand you can go focus your effort
on in your funds on buying thevehicle, you need to do your
(22:56):
job. I think that acceleratesthe process. Some airports are
going even further and ofcourse, mandating, you know, the
airlines by electric GSE, kindof in exchange for them putting
in the infrastructure so thatthat mandate certainly speeds up
the process as well.
Max Gosney (23:10):
Can you Sorry, I was
Erwan Jalil (23:11):
gonna say the cost equation is actually positive.
Right? So obviously, you savetremendously on fuel. And the
cost of electricity, by andlarge is that, you know, is a
winter maintenance. So it's morethe capex hurdle in certain
situations, and there you'vegot, obviously financing
financing solutions that you canput in place. So I think it's,
it's not so much a cost drivenbarrier today, it's it's really
(23:35):
more indeed, thesynchronization, the
coordination, to make it happenwith all stakeholders aligned.
But again, most operators, alloperators will actually win from
a cost standpoint, goingelectric, there's no question.
Unknown (23:48):
And
Josh Parkin (23:48):
just to add, I think, you know, there's other
models that can be considered interms of how, whether it's
airlines or the airports thatare monetizing that, you know,
with the smart chargingtechnology, you're able to see
and recognize the batteries arecharging. So there's opportunity
for power, selling of power orproviding charge as a service
and using telemetry typeoptions. So there are kind of
(24:10):
different models that can beexplored as well to help offset
the costs and make it actually arevenue generating opportunity.
Todd Ernst (24:17):
I just put out there that with the expansion phase
that we're going into withPearson lift, it's actually
presented an opportunity for usto do some of the large scale
upgrades or electricalinfrastructure to be able to
bring in the the EV and E GSE.
Charging to help support ourpartners. So our objective is by
about 2030, that we've gotenough charging capacity out
(24:40):
there that you know, all of ourGSE can be electric so that you
know the support will be therein terms of infrastructure.
Excellent. Thank
Max Gosney (24:50):
you. Questions come in for you, Matt, which asked
How are leasing companiesstrategically looking at
electric equipment for theircustomers, and how do you stay
ahead of the demand in order toFor people to preside, in order
to provide the equipment in afast manner,
Matthew Weitzel (25:05):
it's a real balance. Because the industry as
we've been talking about isreally kind of moving at a
slower rate than we then I thinkwe kind of expected due to the
constraints of the airport asfar as infrastructure. So we are
investing heavily into electricequipment. However, we're not
going all in it, we're not notall of our fleet is going to be
(25:26):
electric, we're going to buyboth internal combustion and
electric. So but we have beendoing a lot of the purchasing a
lot of electric equipment from abunch of different manufacturers
just so that way. We have stuffso that people can try it and
put it into their fleet and testit out. So, you know, it's been,
it's been great. So and then Ihad a question for, I think,
(25:49):
David, are you all planningSwissport? Planning on
repowering, a bunch of currentinternal combustion? Or are you
looking to buy and purchase newelectric equipment.
David Farias (26:00):
So I think it's probably more of a cost
equation. So we are interestedin both solutions at the end of
the day, but the price pointstoday on new equipment are very
competitive to what it wouldcost to repower a piece of
equipment. We are talking with acouple of manufacturers to see
what we can do as far as thatrepowering goes. But right now,
our friends here on stage arevery, very competitive in terms
(26:23):
of making it a better product ifwe went with a new unit. That
Max Gosney (26:27):
was a groundskeeper follow up questions will ask you
what percentage of the fleet inthe future GC hydrogen
comprising? Do you have someprojections,
David Farias (26:37):
we're a bit risk averse, I think on the Swissport
space. So lithium is stillsomething that we're not fully
diving into just yet. So fromhydrogen perspective, I'm not
sure that we're going to seethat in the next couple of
years.
Max Gosney (26:51):
Thank you wait, wait and see how Yeah,
Todd Ernst (26:54):
not to see specific by thought be worth mentioning.
We do actually have our firsthydrogen fuel station under
construction. It's in latecommissioning stages at Toronto
Pearson his groundside. But weare looking to have a percentage
of our fleet, we're startingwith five hydrogen, passenger
vehicles, and municipal transit.
So we're starting to see and getinterested in the potential for
(27:16):
hydrogen as a percentage oftheir fleets. So battery
electric is definitely you know,broadly speaking, you know, the
more market ready more readilyavailable. And it is great in a
lot of applications, there aresome applications where hydrogen
does a little bit better, it's Ithink, ultimately, it's going to
become like gasoline and dieselis what battery electric and
hydrogen will eventually bewhere, you know, high torque,
(27:39):
you know, heavy use applicationswill tend to lean a bit more
towards hydrogen, but alsoencourage folks to consider
that, you know, over the longerterm as the both mature and
become more available toconsider the, you know, the
flexibility that alternatives toelectrification can provide.
Just
Max Gosney (28:00):
throw it out back to the the manufacturers on the
panel. But do you see that?
Brad, do you think that theheavier lifting kit may or may
become more hydrogen based? I
Brad Compton (28:09):
don't think we somewhat unknown. I would think
for us right now. I mean, we'reso heavily focused on making
sure we're gonna get it rightwith the lithium in these
different charging systems,different batteries, make sure
everything's talking together.
But yeah, like I said, it's,it's creeping up there on us,
but we'll, we'll gauge it at alater point in time.
Max Gosney (28:28):
Thank you, Josh.
Yeah,
Josh Parkin (28:29):
just add in there.
If Oshkosh is positioned, aswe're really power agnostic, we
continue to have internalcombustion engine options. Most
of our fleet have the option forelectric and you know, as we've
started hearing demand forhydrogen, we want to be
comfortable with the technologyso that when the market is
ready, that we have a greatsolution. And for us, the number
one is that we want to have ouroperators or owners of our
(28:53):
equipment not have to makecompromises as it relates to
operating. So if they're goingto choose hydrogen, they're
going to choose electric orinternal combustion. We want it
to be able to perform a fullshift and not worry about power
or running out of energy. And sothat's our number one is to make
sure whatever ultimately bringthe market to our customers is
going to work great for him.
Unknown (29:12):
Thank you.
Max Gosney (29:12):
Another question from the floor asks, How does
the panel feel about a fullyelectric di so from an operative
maintenance and serviceabilitystandpoint, is it truly
feasible?
Unknown (29:22):
Yeah. Oh,
Brad Compton (29:23):
I think 100% Yes.
And we're working on that now.
On our innovative safe aero diSir, we're gonna go that
direction, and I think it's 100%accomplishable. These
Josh Parkin (29:33):
Oshkosh degrees
Max Gosney (29:35):
will be there as well. And so already in the
market, I believe there areoptions there. Vestergaard
Brad Compton (29:40):
it's kinda like a coming soon for us. Yes. I think
it's definitely it's like goingback to that point is if you
just don't jump into the deepend, right. You want to make
sure it's vetted out thetechnology's there and you
touched on maintenance training.
So yeah, we'll go through a veryextensive demo phase, but yeah,
it's common. It's gonna comequickly. You gotta get there.
David Farias (30:00):
We'd love to see it on our site as well. At the
end of the day, the smallerpieces your back to your belt
litters, you can see that theTCO was there. And then those de
icing trucks that you need towork, when it comes the
breakdowns on those units todayis far too high, and it's
probably the rail liabilitythat's gonna go and increase if
we can get to that point.
Max Gosney (30:18):
Thank you and move on to the next question here,
which is how much of anopportunity is there to market
the adoption of electric andsustainable GSC during pushback
and turnaround to increasinglyenvironmentally aware
passengers? Marty, is thatsomething you'd ever look to do
as an airline there to sort ofpromote the fact you're using
electric or hydrogen kit duringduring pushback? Yeah,
Marty Gray (30:41):
absolutely. I think there's tremendous opportunity.
And it's certainly that we arevery cognizant to is, you know,
is what opportunity would thatpresent. So appropriate
branding, electrification brandidentifications, our customers,
not only our customers, but ouremployees see what our
commitments are, when it's frontand center, it's essentially,
you know, in some hubs, it'supwards of 1000 assets, that
(31:04):
could have potential opportunityto do just that. Share what our
ambitions are, and get a lot ofemployee sentiment a lot
employee engagement. Absolutely.
I think it's a tremendousopportunity, and one that you
will see us adopting to, and
Max Gosney (31:20):
our views on David.
Yeah,
David Farias (31:23):
I mean, from a brand perspective, I think
there's a tremendous amount ofopportunity to make sure that
we're highlighting that to notonly our internal customers, but
our external customers. It'sthere. And I think, from a
corporate social governancepiece, it's all the way around.
So from government, tomunicipalities, and to our
manufacturers and friends.
Everyone wants a piece of this.
Thank you. And
Max Gosney (31:42):
now the question is coming from the audience, which
asked, What's the glycol heatingtime on your electric devices?
Brad Compton (31:49):
Specific? I'm not ready for that one yet.
Unknown (31:51):
But no, no?
How could you
Brad Compton (31:55):
say it's fast?
It's gonna be really, reallyfast.
Max Gosney (31:58):
We're saying fast.
Brad Compton (32:00):
It's gonna be a rabbit, not a turtle. It's gonna
go fast.
Max Gosney (32:03):
Yeah, we'll look at the text back and get back to
you on that one. I think to geta deeper answer we have we've
talked about hydrogen, we talkedabout electric, I'd be
interested to get the panel'sviews on other alternatives.
They might see the biofuels oranything else you think will be
a serious player further downthe line. I can just talk talk,
(32:23):
start with the closest to me,and I'll move down to Sure.
Todd Ernst (32:25):
I mean, I can just say from the perspective of our
own fleet management, we'relooking at everything. We're
looking at electric, we'relooking at hydrogen, we're
actually doing our first trialswith renewable diesel this
summer.
Max Gosney (32:37):
Josh, I
Josh Parkin (32:38):
think I was just gonna mention in terms of
biofuels, we certainly areseeing an increase of adoption
there. It's a common questionthat we'll get from our
equipment owners as to whetherthey can run different biofuels
into in their engines? And inmost cases, the answer is yes,
particularly tear for finals formost of our manufacturers with
Cummins droits. We're seeingthat work successfully. There's
(32:58):
some things that we suggest thatthey do to help with filtering,
etc. But generally speaking,that's a great option. And we
see that adopted more and morearound the world. Mati
Max Gosney (33:07):
will, do you see sort of biofuels being part of
the future? I do lead strategy?
Marty Gray (33:11):
I do. And we're certainly aware of it. We're
keeping, you know, keeping eyeson it. Electrification is
certainly keeping us busy. And Ithink, you know, we've made
commitment in our people andinvestment in equipment. There's
a significant component ofchange management behaviors
ramp, there's a lot ofopportunity here. And think I'm
(33:31):
going to lean on the experts atthe appropriate time to look at
alternative fields. But it'svery, very important for us to
get into electrification and toget it right. And really
maximize what we've set out todo. Right, let's meet our
obligations. First priority. Ijust don't want to get, you
know, trying to do so manydifferent things that, that we
let opportunities slip by. And
Max Gosney (33:52):
other comments from the panel on our fuels. Know,
Bradley, not not sure I can seewhere your face now
Brad Compton (33:59):
an expert on biofuels, but we know we have
the options for you know, Imean, some of the value you can
bring from different suppliersand these guys on the stage as
well, as you know, we still runan awful lot of gasoline
engines. The diesels are laggingbehind, but we still have demand
for diesel as well. You just gotto keep up with the type four
type five type six type deals,but yeah, you got to kind of
(34:20):
have it all in. But the focus ison electrification.
Marty Gray (34:24):
What's good to know is that there's you know,
there's options being developedin the background, whether it's
other industry, transport,mining, you know, so we may not
necessarily have them today, butwhat does tomorrow look like?
But again, our focus needs mustbe to remain just on
electrification. But it's alwaysso is good to know that industry
is driving change elsewhere.
Max Gosney (34:45):
Thank you another question from the floor, which
asks, do you see challenges withrespect to maintenance staff for
E GSE? The skills for repairsand troubleshooting become a lot
are very different fromtraditional diesel, motorcycles.
Better engines? Aremanufacturers able to assist
with competencies for staffcurrently most fuel repair costs
(35:06):
are far higher for electricJessie.
Brad Compton (35:08):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's a good point. And
yeah, I think the manufacturersare more than willing to help.
And it's Marty would tell you toit's there's a learning curve. I
mentioned high voltage, that's awhole different ballgame when he
talks about, you know, gettingin there and doing some
maintenance. So training is key.
And we understand that and we'reready for that. From
Josh Parkin (35:29):
Josh perspective, that's typically what we see as
well is that there's, you know,when to change, when people
either have mixed fleets orelectrics new to their station,
there's a learning curve. Butgenerally speaking, the
experience that our customersshare is not only the fuel
savings and the return oninvestment they get from that,
but they are seeing reduction intheir actual total cost of
ownership for maintenance,repairs, the improvement around
(35:51):
not only battery technology, buton AC DC motors and brushless
technology in terms of motors,that's really helped reduce
maintenance over time, and hasnot only allowing people to go
zero mission, but really helpingthe bottom line as well. So
David Farias (36:05):
we see positive aspects of that, I think I'd say
the industry has probably notbeen getting too healthy. In
that regard. There's been atraining gap inside of that
space, even when you hadtraditional ice engines. And now
that we're going toelectrification, there's still a
significant gap opportunities tobe had with the manufacturers
providing that training, butalso in terms of introducing new
(36:26):
vocational programs that can getfolks excited to get into this
industry. So that's been laggingand great opportunities there.
Yeah, I
Erwan Jalil (36:34):
do think it's a, it's going to be a challenge, as
we successfully hopefully deployelectrical equipment in electric
equipment in the on the rampover the coming, you know, five
years is to really upgrade theskill sets. You need much more
electrical savvy, you know,skills, sometimes software
(36:54):
related skills, which, you know,we've had to gain on the OEM
side, but are yet to fully, Ithink, document and establish
associated programs. So some ofour customers are insisting on
this. And I think they're right,we need to do more of that as
OEMs. We're determined to do it.
And today, that's a thing that'sgoing to be a challenge in the
year two in the in the next two,three years, as we see more EGC
(37:17):
Come on, come on the ramp.
Max Gosney (37:20):
No question that's come in, which is what are some
of the documented results andcustomer feedback on the mobile
charging units currently used onthe ramp?
Josh Parkin (37:30):
I'd love to take that one. Sure. So late last
year, Oshkosh released themobile charging solution, which
is called the amp cart that wasdeveloped in partnership with a
customer hope you don't mind mementioning that DHL by name.
They were like many of youtrying to decide how they could
speed up the electrification oftheir GSE fleet, but also know
(37:52):
with confidence that they hadthe ability to charge and that's
where they amp cart came into,to play working with partners,
like Avaris to preside providethe ampere policy chargers can
charge between eight and 12pieces of GSE. We have deployed,
I think, over a half a dozenairports, I think there's close
to a dozen units in the fieldright now. And it is helping
(38:14):
that mobile charging. In thiscase, the first version is a
diesel generator driven, it canalso be powered from facility
power to provide additionalcharging options, and it will
ultimately help bridge the gapas as you know, a lot of topics
we've been discussing and tryingto catch up with the
infrastructure required to therapid expansion of, of GSE. Just
(38:36):
one more point on that. GroundSupport worldwide did a survey
earlier this year. And mostcustomers said they wanted to
expand their electric fleets and70. I think 71% said the single
biggest reason why they weren'tmoving faster on electric GSE
investment was due to lack ofcharging infrastructure. So we
opened our small part, theampark can help help support
that
Max Gosney (38:56):
guy, did you want to come through and comment on the
development in that area? And
Gabe Sampson (39:01):
absolutely, like Josh alluded to, I think the SAM
cart products been been verysuccessful, right? It's solved
the immediate problems, right.
So that so that airlines orcargo carriers or ground
handlers could or could deployelectric GSC. And they'll
certainly be more that to come Iknow, there's been a lot of
interest in that product line.
We also introduced sort of in aparallel unrelated effort, what
(39:22):
we call a ramp runner, which isa simpler version of a mobile
charging cart that is powered by400 hertz ground power. So when
a when a when a gate is notoccupied, you can take the GPU
cable, plug it into this cart,which is essentially the size of
a bad card. And you know,recharge five pieces of GSE
around this cart. So kind of asimilar concept two totally
(39:43):
different in technology. Butagain, just trying to bridge
that gap in between GSC aresorry, electric GSE being
delivered, and permanentcharging infrastructure being
installed. So I think ingeneral, it's, you know that
that concept, I think you'regonna see more and more of it. I
know there's other I've seenother people Alex being
introduced in our industry aswell, just
Erwan Jalil (40:03):
one thing I have seen in Europe and in China is
the use of GPU. So ground powerunits that are electric more and
more, right battery poweredGPUs, that can also be used as
power banks, meaning sources ofelectricity for the GSE around
it. And it's a great way toutilize, you know, mobile assets
that are sources of electricityaround the aircraft to address
(40:27):
that gap. I think that will comein the US, too, in the years to
come. Thank you,
Max Gosney (40:33):
David. Sorry, Marcia, even smile says Hi,
Marty Gray (40:36):
you know, I can't say enough about, you know, what
the amp cart afforded us AirCanada with with flexibility, it
really came in at at theappropriate time. And it really
did a tremendous job, you know,bridging the gap of what we had
taken delivery of what was notthere to support it. But what
this, what this afforded us todo has been tremendous is to the
(41:00):
fact that Air Canada, we'reoperating with three of them
now. And boy, it certainly havedone its job. And then again,
strategically, as we start tosee the commissioning of charge
or availability, again, there'smore opportunity, because then
we can redeploy it, and it'sbeing mobile, we can move it to
other airports, taking delivery,and then really start to drive,
(41:24):
change culture, change how weoperate in other places. It's
been a fantastic asset for us.
Max Gosney (41:31):
And it's a great stepping stone, which is why
we're here and while theinfrastructure is under
development.
Matthew Weitzel (41:36):
So Marty, will you only take the aim cart to
places airports that theinfrastructure is already on its
way? Or are you looking to maybedeploy that, even if there's not
infrastructure already goinginto place?
Marty Gray (41:48):
Yellow? Again, it's, strategically we are putting it
in locations where we are takingdelivery of equipment, obviously
proportionate to scale, but whenwe know, you know, we are, we've
already got establishedtimelines for availability of
charging, but there's a team inthe background, they're also
synchronizing that with anotherstrategy to move it to
(42:10):
locations, where again, youknow, equipment is coming in,
it's going to allow us to dojust that. The mobility element
of the cart and such is, it's,it's been fantastic
strategically,
Brad Compton (42:23):
because we're pulling that around with
electric tractor, right? dieseltrucks. Thanks, Brad.
Gabe Sampson (42:30):
Brad, that's an interesting comment. You know,
it does sound a littlecounterproductive to recharge
electric vehicles with a dieselgenerator, right. But, you know,
think about it, I drive toelectric cars, I like to say
they're coal powered, becauseultimately, there's a power
plant somewhere, typicallyburning something that, you
(42:51):
know, provides the electricity.
But the beauty of that is it's asingle point source of emission,
right? So they can you canmonitor it, you can capture
data, you can capture, you know,pollutants and handle it
correctly, as opposed to a bunchof vehicles run around that
maybe you're not regulatedproperly. Right. So in this case
with the endcard. I have notdone the numbers myself, but I'm
sure sure Oshkosh has, but thenet reduction in emissions is
probably still pretty damnsignificant, right to get one
(43:13):
big diesel generator running ata really high efficiency, you
know, replacing a bunch of smalldiesel engines that are running
at very low efficiency. So theimpact should be very, fairly
positive, just just on a usecase basis. Yeah,
Josh Parkin (43:27):
precisely, you know, depending on what the size
of the batteries that you'reusing, or replacing the size of
the engine with the fuel burnwas, but we just did a review
with a customer last week, andthey were replacing 16 pieces of
diesel GSE with electric, andthey're going to support that
fleet with the amp cart. And welooked at worst case scenarios
only being supported by thediesel engine, they were seeing
close to 77 0% reduction in co2emissions, trading out 16 diesel
(43:53):
engines for one. So it is a it'snot a zero emission solution.
But it absolutely is a huge stepin the right direction.
Max Gosney (44:00):
Thank you. What impacted the panel? See if we're
saying that we're moving towardsa kind of a mixed power source
mix, fleet model in the futureof electric hydrogen, other
power sources? What impact willthat have on on ownership
patterns amongst groundhandlers, operators, who are
going to see good news for Mattand exceed more of a shift to to
(44:20):
leasing models? because there'llbe such variability and change?
Matthew Weitzel (44:25):
Yeah, I like that idea.
David Farias (44:28):
I think from our Grinling perspective, we prefer
to own our equipment so much,you're sorry about that. Short
term needs? Absolutely. We'llwe'll reach out. But the shift
to remain I think long termownership is the key. And the
useful life of electricequipment seems like it's going
to outpace ice equipment. So itlooks like it's definitely gonna
support the case. No, no
Max Gosney (44:48):
major shift. Do you think in financing models as a
result? No, certainly not.
Swissport?
David Farias (44:52):
Not with us none.
Max Gosney (44:54):
Okay. Thank you.
Other questions come in, relatedto glycol, so Have the
manufacturers on the panel thatwill be there with glycol
heating, temps times for anelectric platform, do you
believe it will surpass that ofa diesel offering? Right.
Brad Compton (45:09):
I think it's too early to tell. I think we're
still reviewing that. I don'tknow if it'll surpass where we
are now. But we'll see.
Josh Parkin (45:18):
We're not to a point where we're talking about
the specific specs of theElectric Gas at this time, but
we'll keep you posted.
Brad Compton (45:24):
Let me it's a good question. That's gonna that'll
be something we'll have tofigure out and have that data,
because that'll be certainly aquestion we get asked when we
get there.
Max Gosney (45:31):
Excellent. Thank you. Can the panel comment on
safety, potential safetyconcerns on both lithium
batteries and hydrogen? I
Gabe Sampson (45:41):
could talk about batteries. I don't I don't have
a lot of experience withhydrogen. But so there's there's
absolutely safety risks withbatteries, right? I mean, if no
different with a fuel tank,right? I mean, a battery is a
fuel tank, it stores electronsor energy instead of gasoline or
diesel. And it it can go bad,right? Luckily, it doesn't
happen very often. You know,we're not we're not dealing with
(46:02):
this on a daily basis. But Ithink there's, there's from the
battery manufacturersperspective, there's a lot of
effort by you know, these goodquality manufacturers put into
safety features, to to meetingcertain certifications, like UL
standards for batterymanufacturing, there's a lot a
lot of effort put into thecontrols of the batteries to
(46:22):
limit detrimental conditionslike over discharge and
overcharge. And that's typicallywhen things can go really wrong.
So I think the design of theproduct is key, you can design a
very, very safe lithium battery,just like you can with a you
know, an internal combustionvehicle. And operation is key.
So that that comes witheducation. So you know, we spend
(46:43):
a lot of time educating themaintenance teams and the
operations teams about theserisks, and then what to do if
something does go wrong, butmost of it is about prevention.
And there's there's quite a biteffort being put into that
there's, there's SAE committeesfocused on it, there's, there's
NFPA regulations being writtenaround it. So it's obviously
like, again, like, like I saidearlier, we're a small piece of
(47:04):
the battery world. So we'regoing to inherit a lot of the
knowledge from the overallbattery community that is
developing the standards, and itshould make us all safer.
Max Gosney (47:14):
Thank you guys.
Other comments?
Todd Ernst (47:16):
I can talk a little bit yeah, hydrogen safety side,
given we have the fill stationthat we were getting some
experience with. It's it's beenhad its first charge of hydrogen
already for testing purposes.
And I'd say it's, I wouldn't sayit's more or less safe than
conventional fuels, it justneeds to be handled differently.
(47:36):
At the end of the day, in openair situations, if there's a
leak, it can actually be moresafe in the fact that hydrogen
rises, and it disperses veryquickly. So as long as it's a
dispersion that's belowcombustion concentrations, and
there's no source to ignite it,it goes into the air and it's
(47:58):
completely non toxic, and you'refine. Whereas with the fuel
spill, you've got this pool onthe ground that you have to deal
with, and and contain and cleanup and potentially also toxics
in the soil. Now if it's if it'sa covered situation, then then
you have a different situation,but it can be mitigated by
having sensors to make sure thatyou know any leaks, if they come
up against the ceiling thatthey're you know, it's not
(48:20):
pooling at a high pointsomewhere, that would be a
safety concern. But again, withsensors, pressures, detection,
whatnot, it's it's all quitemanageable. Thank you.
Max Gosney (48:32):
I'm David and Marty, as you know, in terms of, I
guess, lithium, perhaps there'ssomething that you're very much
looking at the safety trainingacross operators users.
Marty Gray (48:43):
Yeah, I mean, you know, Eric and I were safety
first and always. So it'sembedded in anything that we do.
So when we start, you know, whenwe were getting into
electrification, again, there'sa lot of research and I take
great comfort in those who aresupporting us, when when you see
standards being applied tomanufacturing, the safe
(49:03):
handling. Even in Canada,there's an element of this where
you start talking high voltage,Evie, it's regulated. These are
all things that give us a greatsense of comfort around safety,
David Farias (49:16):
and good safety first all the way through and
that's why I think we're alittle bit risk averse to
lithium Swissport. As Gabementioned earlier, lead acid is
very mature seems to work justfine opportunity charges there.
And if you do that to take careof it so far that's that's the
direction we're gonna continueto go and have a panel
Brad Compton (49:34):
I think too. You know, from a manufacturer
standpoint, you come up here youtalk product, I think we miss a
lot about the value add we allhave as our when we look at our
factories, and we spend a lot oftime training, continuously
training, the folks that arebuilding the equipment and
working on the equipment and ourfield tech, so it's it's number
one for us safety but also justmaking sure they understand the
(49:56):
technology and the risks outthere because it's always
changing.
Max Gosney (49:59):
Thank you And we've got seven, eight minutes left
Ladies and Gents for you got anyfinal questions, then please put
them through an app where youcan raise your hand, just to
make sure we get through all theaudience questions this
afternoon. I just want to, Iguess there's a sort of summary
perspective from the panel justwanted to ask you to outline how
you see the ramp changing herein the Americas market over the
(50:23):
next 1015 years and what it willlook like how different it will
look on the power sources, wewill see if the ramp of say 2035
Brad Compton (50:31):
I'm surprised we haven't talked autonomous. I
think that's still in theconversation. I think it's going
to take a while before we getthere. Yeah, I think you're
gonna see a lot of things on theramp change. Maybe it's going to
happen with how safely in howquickly we get that aircraft for
support, the team is turningthat aircraft around. Yeah,
you're always gonna see, I thinkwe're at a point where you're
(50:52):
gonna see innovation, you'regonna see something new every
year, I think something like theramp cart, something going into
autonomous, there's always gonnabe something coming up, and it's
gonna come up pretty quick howit looks in 10 years, I think
you're gonna see chargerinfrastructure catch up, be a
little cleaner, and hopefully alot smoother.
Max Gosney (51:08):
Thanks, Marty.
Marty Gray (51:10):
I think we're going to see, you know, trends change
over the years. And I'mcertainly, you know, advocate
for just that for change, doingmore with less, safer, you know,
removing a whole lot of whatcould be seen as the human
factor in unfortunate incidents,accidents, you know,
decongesting, some of the rampspace, but really giving our
(51:33):
people the best that we can getthem to perform their functions.
But all that to say, I seetremendous change coming in
years to come. Tournaments wouldbe another, you know, great
example of what that could looklike. Remote control, you know,
the likes of the modal talk. Imean, these are all big
significant game changers in themarket. Josh?
Josh Parkin (51:55):
Yeah, from an Oshkosh perspective, we just
continue to look to our marketour customers and look to see
what they define as success. Andoftentimes, that means operator
safety, it means increasedefficiency and reduced cost. And
then ultimately, they want ahighly reliable piece of
equipment. So we'll continue tofocus on innovations that help
in those three areas.
Gabe Sampson (52:18):
Electric, right, I mean, that's what we're all
talking about it there's gonnabe much more electrical
equipment, but I think it's, Ithink it's going to be different
in a few ways. I'm a bigbeliever in automotive charging
technology making its way on toairport ramps. It's been
mentioned a couple times today,but as as fleet vehicles start
(52:38):
driving around that areelectric, you're gonna need a
way to charge them and why can'tthe same charger that charges
that vehicle, which is astandard, right, that we all can
live by my cat that also chargedGSE? Right, I think I think that
is the future for for theelectrification efforts that are
going forward, it's gonna takesome time, because there's a lot
of legacy equipment that youcan't just abandon. But I think
you'll start to see chargersvery soon that have both
(53:03):
capabilities. And then I thinkeventually you'll see a trend
towards the automotive standardas the charger of choice for for
airports.
Max Gosney (53:10):
Thank you what's the Swissport fleet look like in
2035? The question,
David Farias (53:15):
I'd say it's it'll be a half electric by then
hopefully, from motorized side.
But I think it'll be a saferramp. I think that the end of
the day, the innovations thatare taking place from a user
perspective are are leaps andbounds from where we were 10
years ago. And if we can getmore of an electric fleet, I
think that gives us morecontrols to engineer out some of
the risk until we get topotentially an autonomous ramp.
Max Gosney (53:36):
Thank you.
Unknown (53:37):
Oh, one,
Erwan Jalil (53:38):
you know, I think one typically underestimates
what can be achieved over 10years and over estimates, what
can be achieved over one year.
So I think 10 years from now, Ithink all of this is going to be
happening, much fewer people onthe ramp, and much more
automation, much saferenvironment, much more activity,
you know, that automation willenable. So that's very exciting,
(53:58):
I think and as OEMs, you know,we obviously are totally
committed to push furtherinnovations in a safe way and
work with the whole communityhere to make that a reality. But
they're very optimistic aboutthe change.
Max Gosney (54:15):
Thank you.
Todd Ernst (54:17):
Pretty much everything that's been said.
Yeah, trouble of going towardsthe end. Yeah, exactly. But, I
mean, yeah, I might be a bit ofan outlier in terms of how
bullish am and hydrogen. I dothink it. It's not the magic
bullet, but it does have a placein the mix. I think it will be
in the mix. And yeah,electrification, Saf, it's all
(54:38):
going to be out there and it'sgonna be much greener and and
also safer. apron,
Max Gosney (54:43):
and at Toronto, Pearson and other airports. The
infrastructure will have movedon, right. Yes, absolutely.
Excellent. Excellent news forus. Yeah,
Matthew Weitzel (54:52):
I'd say that if you want to learn more about how
GSE is going to change in thenext 10 years, you should listen
to GSC podcasts. where we, wecover all these topics from
automation to electrification? Imean, you can in telematics, you
can get all of it on the GSCpodcast. So I think, you know,
we didn't rehearse that. Soyeah, I'm gonna continue having
those conversations with peoplein the industry so they can
(55:15):
really learn about what's comingdown the pipeline. Thank
Max Gosney (55:18):
you. And I'd also say, also bit delighted to
welcome all of the audience tofind out more at GSC Expo
Europe, which is happening inLisbon. see on the slide there,
70 to 90 September, allmanufacturers in the room will
be there working with the IMAteam agenda and the team and the
issues that were covered duringthis discussion.
electrification, hydrogen,biofuels, autonomous vehicle
(55:41):
safety, that will all be underunder the microscope there, and
I'll be equipment demos, and youguys will be showing off the
latest solution. So make a notethe dates and the store is going
to run, isn't it?
Matthew Weitzel (55:52):
Yeah, I'm Max.
And I had to plug some stuff atthe end, right. So I also
Max Gosney (55:56):
have to finish in under an hour because I don't
wanna give you too much editingto do on the cutting room floor.
But ladies and gents, we we wereally appreciate all your
questions that have come in andyour engagement in the
discussion. Thank you very much.
Please join me in giving ourpanel a big round of applause.
Thank you.
(56:18):
Can't help. My last question toput Matt on the spot. And when
might the audience be listeningto this one? Episode, there's no
pressure if
Matthew Weitzel (56:27):
it is a great question. Get this out next
week. So everybody can reallyenjoy listening to this all over
again next week,
Max Gosney (56:35):
and we will send that to you. We'll send a link
to you and make sure you knowwhen it is released and enjoy
the lesson. Thank you all verymuch.
Matthew Weitzel (56:50):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the
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(57:11):
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Alice Clarke (00:54):
Good morning from San Juan Tay. This is Alice
Clark from JH AI and you arelistening to the GSC podcast the
day after the gala dinner.
Max Gosney (01:05):
Ladies and gentlemen, this session is going
to be recorded as a podcast ofthe GRC podcast and delighted to
welcome up Matt, Matt Weitzel,who's the host of the JSC
podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, Ihave your attention round of
applause Matt, please.
(01:28):
So it's a great honor to berecording this next session with
Matt and it will feature or asan episode of the podcast. I'm
sure everyone out there knowsthe show and listening. So thank
you very much, Matt.
Matthew Weitzel (01:39):
Yeah, thanks a lot. All right, we got Oh, man,
this is great. Yeah, so thanks alot for coming. This is going to
be a special live edition of theGSC podcasts. And thanks to Max
and GH i for having me up here.
And we're going to talk someelectrification, we
Max Gosney (01:54):
also keep the language clean, ladies and gents
is live. So I've got to keepthis one. Keep this one
straight. But just to say you wewill do want your questions come
in as we're having thisdiscussion. I'll pick them up on
the ad we'll put the the app'siPad even. And we'll put the
question slide up. So send someof your questions in as we're
talking. The topic as Matt saysis sustainability, the
electrification electrificationof the Americas apron, and I
(02:17):
will now welcome up thepanelists. We will get things
underway. So first up, could Iinvite Brad Compton, Director of
Sales at Textron Welcome
Matthew Weitzel (02:32):
back thanks a lot.
Max Gosney (02:34):
We have Marty Marty Gray, who's director of GRC and
maintenance at Air Canada.
Welcome up, Marty.
Matthew Weitzel (02:46):
Thanks a lot, Marty.
Max Gosney (02:47):
Next up, could Josh Josh Parkin, come back to the
stage is with us this morning.
He's senior sales manager at newtechnology products at Oshkosh.
Aerotech Welcome back, Josh.
Matthew Weitzel (03:01):
Thanks, buddy.
Okay.
Max Gosney (03:04):
And next up, we have Gabriel Gabriel Sampson, who is
president at aborist. Welcomeup, Gabriel.
Matthew Weitzel (03:15):
Thank you.
Thanks.
Max Gosney (03:17):
And next we have David David Ferris, who is vice
president fleet North America atSwissport. Welcome up, David.
I'd like to welcome up next Ohwind Jaleel, who is Group Chief
Operating Officer at TLD. Oh,and welcome up.
(03:41):
And next up we have Todd ToddErnst, who is Director of Energy
and Environment greater torontoAirports Authority. Welcome up
to I believe that is everyone.
We were expecting. We've got amixture here of manufacturers,
we have an airport, we haveground handler we have an
(04:02):
airline. So we've got the fullgambit of the supply chain to
talk to us about this bigchallenge of becoming more
sustainable electrification, orother greener power sources. Map
and I will hand to you oranything I'll say all I'll get
things underway.
Matthew Weitzel (04:17):
Now. Let's get it underway. Yes, got it. Great.
Thank
Max Gosney (04:19):
you see flick through his pages to the first
questions that I sent through.
So to open it up to the panel.
What are your future GSE fleetstrategies and what percentage
of your GSE will be electric bythe end of the decade?
Matthew Weitzel (04:36):
All right, Brad, you want to go and rob
Bradley, just because
Brad Compton (04:39):
I'm down here at the end? Yeah, yeah, we're gonna
Okay. So in terms ofelectrification, from a supplier
standpoint, manufacturerstandpoint, I think everyone has
made so much progress when youreference 2019 to now. I think
lithium is the key we have formanufacturing standpoint, we're
about 65% Electric Rick thisyear, and mainly that's on our
(05:02):
belt loaders. But I think if youlook at every supplier, a lot of
the manufacturers, they'll say,I would guess, above 50%. But I
think we're gonna get a lotheavier on that percentage as we
get into the next couple ofyears here. It will
infrastructure is gonna catchup. But I think the signals we
see from our customers areleaning that direction. So yeah,
we're above 50%. I think justgonna keep growing up
Max Gosney (05:24):
or come to David, for this question.
David Farias (05:27):
Yeah. So on our end, I think right now we're
about 22%. Electric, globally,we'd like to get to by the end
of the decade, but 55%, that'sour corporate goal. But at the
end of the day, infrastructureplays a major role inside of
that, and how we get to thatpoint, but we've got some good
partners here, that apparentlyare trying to make a little bit
smoother with transition. Sothank
Max Gosney (05:49):
you, Marty, perhaps bring you bring you in on this
one.
Marty Gray (05:53):
or Canada, we've made some significant
commitments for 30%, reductionby 2030, and net zero by 2050.
So we need to be aggressive onthe way we get there. I don't
know if I would say, you know,full percentage of the fleet to
be electrified, but ratherspecific fleet types where we
know where it's proven. Andwe're very, very comfortable
with who we've aligned ourselveswith four belt loaders bag
(06:16):
tractors. As we see evolutionand other fleet types. I think
we'll probably take advantage ofit at that time. But I mean, we
are fully committed. And he'sclimate objectives.
Max Gosney (06:28):
So a lot of desire and commitment increases are
actually committed, asreferenced by David. So it kind
of leads to my next questionaround infrastructure. So who is
currently providing theleadership and impetus in
electrification of airports inthe region? And who would you
like to step up to take a moreproactive approach to deliver
the electrification andinfrastructure that we need? I
Todd Ernst (06:49):
can start with that, I guess your HIPAA? Yeah. So I
don't know if there's a singleclear leader, I think everybody
has started stepping up, really,whether it's the you know, the
airports, Grant handlers,airlines, what have you, you
know, the move to electrifies ishas picked up dramatically in in
recent years, where I thinkthere's a bit of a gap right
(07:10):
now, you know, not to have myhead out to the government. But,
you know, there's lots ofgovernment incentive for
groundside electrification, andthere's a gap when you start to
move aracite to non platedequipment.
Max Gosney (07:22):
So, Marty, I see nodding along as those comments
are made by Todd.
Marty Gray (07:28):
I would say, I mean, we need partners in the
authorities, and certainly someprovincial advocates to drive
these initiatives for sure. Ifyou look at where we are today,
and you and if you went back andtook a snapshot of where we were
this time, last year, I mean,there were plenty of airports,
Canadian airports that had zeroinfrastructure, you know, and if
(07:50):
you fast forward to today, theyhave done a tremendous job in
installing buildinginfrastructure to support what
we have taken delivery of. So Ithink, you know, as as the
airport's progress ininfrastructure, construction
implementation, it's just kindof aligning itself with the
supply chain of equipment. Andright now, we're in a fortunate
(08:11):
position. But we must continueto just keep driving these
initiatives with with ourpartners,
Matthew Weitzel (08:17):
and then gave a think that you can maybe help
bridge that gap a little bit,right? Yeah, sure. So
Gabe Sampson (08:22):
we've been supplying charging
infrastructure to this industryfor 20 years now. And we've
definitely seen a change inwho's procuring that equipment.
I think everybody's right, thatthe who's leading that decision
kind of varies based on themarket, the airport, the
location, the airlines, but, youknow, 20 years ago, the airlines
were buying charginginfrastructure and having it
installed at their gates atairports to support their
(08:44):
electric GSE. Whereas now,they're definitely leaning more
towards trying to get theauthorities the airport
authorities or the seas or thestates to provide that
infrastructure for them, likeMarty indicated. So I think it's
a joint effort of airlineparticipation and training for
them trying to meet theircorporate environmental goals.
And then the airport's trying tosupport that and also meet maybe
(09:04):
some of their own environmentalgoals. So it's definitely more
of a partnership now, and it'sever been,
Marty Gray (09:09):
it's great that we have all these aligned targets,
if you look at what our mandatesare, are between 2002 now and
2030 is very, very commonfootwear seeing, you know, the
airport. So we're all strivingfor that common goal, which is
certainly beneficial to all ofus. Yeah,
Todd Ernst (09:22):
our GHG goals are actually pretty closely aligned.
We're shooting for net zero by2050 45% reduction versus 2010
by 2030. That's our scope oneand two, but we're looking to
support our partners for thescope three reductions. Two.
Max Gosney (09:36):
Thank you. Questions come in from the audience.
Thanks for the first question,which our standardization is
critical to adoption success. Doyou see a change when
manufacturing teams can agree ona single charge plug type,
similar to the Eevee carindustry? Not doing this also
hampers infrastructure asmultiple vendors at a site may
have different plug needs? I'll
Brad Compton (09:57):
certainly say that's very difficult for us
now. There's many Many options,it's hard for us to keep track,
one customer could have threedifferent sets of plugins for
the infrastructure per city. Soit gets a little difficult. If
you can standardize that, thatwould be super huge from a
manufacturing standpoint, from
Josh Parkin (10:15):
an Oshkosh perspective of degree. We see a
lot of variability not just herein the Americas, but around the
world. And we're having toadapt. And of course, that's
ultimately what we do. We listento what the customer needs are.
But from a consistencystandpoint and help I know,
there's a lot of work going on,both in the SAE conference as
well as IATA to try to work andput some suggestions out there.
So people can standardize some,but there's a lot of work to do
(10:37):
on that front for sure.
Max Gosney (10:38):
Oh, and you give us a tale de vos
Erwan Jalil (10:40):
to confirm. I think it's a big driver of complexity
today. It's not only the thehardware, but also the software.
So charger, communicationprotocols that don't speak the
same language make essentially,the flexibility in the operation
extremely difficult to handle.
So it is today an issue and somecountries have figured it out.
Thinking about China, which isthe only place today where you
(11:02):
have standards forelectrification. And I think the
rest of the world needs needs tomove in that direction
Max Gosney (11:09):
is that from a Swissport perspective, from a
handers perspective, David hasthat as our challenge having
multiple plugs on
David Farias (11:15):
limits our options and where we're where we can
read pivot equipment. So at theend of the day, without that
charger, infrastructure aligned,and that protocol not in place
that does limit our ability tomove equipment around. So yeah,
we'd love nothing more than tobe have some additional
alignment there. That
Erwan Jalil (11:30):
said, there are some solutions that as
manufacturers we're working on.
So for instance, the ability torecognize different protocols
automatically. That's notsomething overly difficult to
do. So in then I think in theUS, we're seeing a move towards,
you know, CCS as a standardplug. So I think there are ways
to converge fast withoutnecessarily the regulator
(11:51):
imposing new standards on us,but it is going to take us to
work collectively on this.
Brad Compton (11:58):
I think the infrastructure is going more
high voltage as well. And Ithink that's could be the future
of the airport. And that wouldalign more with the automotive
industry, is what we're seeing.
But yeah, there's a lot of workto be done in terms of
standardization.
Max Gosney (12:11):
Thank you, Tom to you. We know many panels we've
held at JH eyes and and oftenthere is a comment around
frustrations about theinfrastructure and the lack of
infrastructure for electriccharging at airports. Can you
give us an Airport's perspectiveon this and just some of the
scope of the challenge andtrying to map to demand amongst
your stakeholders? Yeah,
Todd Ernst (12:32):
sure. Happy to how much time? Do I have?
Max Gosney (12:35):
49 minutes? 21 seconds? Yeah, no,
Todd Ernst (12:38):
I look, we're all working towards the same thing.
At the end of the day, like you,we all we all have our own
carbon reduction targets. We'reall looking to move people,
planes and bags as efficientlyas we possibly can, you know,
Toronto Pearson? Well, before mytime, I think it might be about
20 years ago, when we put thefirst GSC chargers airside. And
(12:59):
we've got about 80 or so, andquickly building out to just
over 100, and then it's going toexpand by a couple of times, at
least going forward from there.
So going the, although theactivity curve is smooth and
steady, but the curve forinfrastructure is like a
sawtooth, right? You build stuffand sometimes you overbill like
(13:21):
we did many years ago, and thenthen you get to a point where
you're a plateau and you'reunder the curve for a while. So
that's that's really thechallenge with infrastructure is
you can't scale it up, generallyspeaking as smoothly as the
activity ramps up. So we need towork closely together to
understand the timings and beable to match the supply with
(13:42):
demand as efficiently as wepossibly can.
Max Gosney (13:46):
And inevitably, inevitably, there'll be a lag, I
guess, between the supply anddemand.
Todd Ernst (13:51):
Yeah, there'll be some lags and the but there are
some tools also to help toaddress legs, you know, for
instance, CEO, portable chargingsolutions, battery technologies
and whatnot that are out thereto help bridge that gap. So I
don't think all is lost, youknow, will will be able to keep
up. It just won't be all withfixed static electrical
(14:13):
infrastructure.
Max Gosney (14:14):
Perhaps if I can come to you guys, if we are if
battery technology can help playa part whilst the infrastructure
is catching up interest to getyour, your views on on what's
out there and sort ofdevelopments and innovation in
the battery technology arena.
Gabe Sampson (14:27):
Yeah, sure. So specifically in reference to
chargers, so there's a there's alot of work underway to add
batteries to charging systemsthat can help shed the load,
even out the duty cycle from thefacilities point of view, mobile
charging platforms, you know,that might have onboard battery
storage that can be charged upand off peak times and then and
(14:49):
then parked remotely to rechargeGSC at a different time of the
day. So I think there's a lot ofeffort underway right now. I
think within months, certainlywithin a year you're going to
start to see a lot of thoseproducts roll out I don't think
from an airport facilityperspective, I would assume you
guys and a lot of other airportsare looking at, at building
battery storage systems into thebuilding that can then you know,
(15:10):
store energy that can beredistributed to electric GSE or
EVs anywhere else, you know, youhad solar panels so that you can
start harnessing energy from thesun. So the same battery
technology that's powering thevehicles is also being looked at
to help solve the infrastructureproblem we all have, and we all
deal with every day. Yeah, no,
Todd Ernst (15:27):
that's a great point. I mean, it's it's not the
energy challenge isn't justground support equipment
electrification. So, you know,in the case of Toronto Pearson,
we're already in a gridconstrained area. The peak
demand is around about 40megawatts or so. With
electrification and facilitygrowth and increases and air
traffic over the coming years,you know, that demand is going
(15:49):
to more than double. So we'regonna get to more like 80 100
megawatts of demand in aconstrained area with
infrastructure that we're in theprocess of upgrading. But we do
need to take a an energyecosystem approach where we are
looking at how solar how batteryhow even hydrogen and other
alternatives to electrons canall fit together to make this
(16:11):
work efficiently.
Max Gosney (16:12):
We talked about electric and you are to the age
where the hydrogen word for thefirst time I'll just be
interested to throw open ifthere is this lag, this
challenge around infrastructure,what opportunities to the panel
think there are for otheralternative sustainable fuel
sources hydrogen, biofuels beinterested to get some views
Joshi caught my eye at the wrongminute.
Josh Parkin (16:30):
Yeah, sure. So Oshkosh certainly isn't new to
the electrification game, we'vehad electric GSC, since the
1960s, or their electricproduct. And we've seen that
expansion and we haveexperimented with some others
zero emission solutions,hydrogen included, it's
definitely come a long ways,from our perspective, we're very
comfortable with the hydrogenfuel cell technology, very safe,
(16:50):
very reliable. And that I think,is the point that Max is making,
just like electric thatchallenge will be in terms of
infrastructure distribution, theapproach that we've taken is
looking at it from a modularperspective, and similar to
maybe your your propane grill athome, instead of you just
replaced the modular tank. Andso we're going to be partnering
(17:11):
with a company for modulardistribution of hydrogen to
bring hydrogen to the operationsto simplify that, and hopefully
accelerate the ability to tolook at some alternative energy
in addition to to electric butto have have hydrogen as well.
So there'll be an option thatwe're exploring in GSC, but also
in our mobile charging platform,the amp cart, oh, and
Max Gosney (17:32):
how, you know, but how much of a proportion Do you
think hydrogen will make up ofTLDs proposition in years to
come?
Erwan Jalil (17:39):
It's hard to say I think hydrogen will depend a lot
on clean, affordableinfrastructure being available
locally at the airport. And youknow, that's going to be mostly
country bets, where maybe Saudi,for instance, will be one of
those places in the world. Butit to complement this hydrogen
alternative, one of the thingswe've introduced is hybrid
technologies, which allowessentially to decouple the
(18:01):
phasing of this infrastructurethat we were talking about,
which may be lagging to thecapex decisions that you need to
make today to replace agingfleets, and essentially buys you
some time, still making animpact on your on your carbon
footprint, fuel efficiency,safety in the approach of the
aircraft, while giving you thetime you need in order to get
the chargers in place. Sothere's different ways to
(18:22):
address that challenge today.
And that's just one of them.
Max Gosney (18:25):
Brat from a Textron perspective,
Brad Compton (18:28):
I think, you know, electrification is probably the
most popular, they're the rockstar right now. And I hydrogen
is kind of looking around thecorner peeking its way in a
little bit. I know there's gonnabe challenges around that
infrastructure as well. Andalthough we're we're always
looking for the next best thing,but we can't do it in a vacuum.
We've got to get the feedbackfrom our customers from the
ecosystem that we live in theairports included. But yeah, I
(18:50):
think we're, again, we're notfast lane electrification. And
we know there's going to besomething next and that could be
hydrogen, and that could go kindof fall back on hybrid vehicles.
So certainly, yeah. And we'rejust looking at, you know, all
vehicles, not necessarilytalking tractors, or belt
loaders, you know, you got totake that next step into the de
icing and these other vehiclesthat you can electrify so. Yeah,
(19:12):
I would say that there's gonnabe another one, but just make
sure we master theelectrification. First question
Max Gosney (19:17):
that's come in the OS are lithium batteries, just a
stepping stone because you haveenvironmental challenges the
sustainability of getting holdof the lithium and then
recycling it? So is the lithiumbattery and electrification as
as sustainable as we mightthink. You've
Erwan Jalil (19:35):
got different chemistries? So I think
generally speaking in the, inthe GSE world, we tend to use
LFP. So lithium phosphate, firstchemistry, which is much cleaner
than the neacail Martinez, NMCcobalt chemistry. It's also much
safer from a thermal behaviorstandpoint. So I think as long
(19:57):
as you know you, you avoid theuse of Nikko and McGinnis which
are the most doubtful componentsin terms of the carbon footprint
of lithium ion technology,you're doing pretty well, from a
environmental standpoint.
Gabe Sampson (20:10):
Totally agree, by the way, but I mean, to answer
the question a little moredirectly, I would say yes, I
think lithium batteries are justa stepping stone. You know, we,
we lived in a world for many,many years where everything was
powered by lead acid batteries,right. And that's a, that is, by
the way, very, very sustainableproduct, lead acid batteries are
the most recycled product on theplanet, the entire battery can
be recycled down to the lead andthe acid, the steel, everything,
(20:32):
so but it's also a very matureproduct, right? It's been around
for, you know, I don't know, 100years or so let's say. But as
demand for powering vehicles hasincreased, the lead acid battery
has kind of met its capacity andperformance. So lithium has had
to step in and fill those roles.
It is pretty sustainable. Um,there's still some problems to
be solved with Floridacyclability. But I do believe
it's just a stepping stone.
(20:55):
There's so much there's so muchdevelopment battery technology
today, you'd be a fool to thinkthat in 10 years, there's not
going to be three or four otherdifferent chemistries of
batteries that have that are nowattractive to this market and,
and maybe powering differenttypes of vehicles.
Max Gosney (21:08):
That's interesting.
Can you enlighten us on some ofthose alternatives? Some of the
things that might be a steppingstone to I mean, I've heard of
so so disodium. But yeah, yeah,
Gabe Sampson (21:14):
sodium ion batteries is a rapidly improving
technology that's going to bereadily available in coming
years. It's sort of availabletoday. We're certainly testing
it in our facility for certainapplications and has, it has a
lot of promise, you know, youhear reference of, of solid
state batteries, you hearreferences of lithium batteries
with different electrolytechemistries that can do
different things. So we're verysmall, right? If you look at
(21:37):
what we do as a GSE, industry,in terms of the battery world,
we're a blip on the map, right?
If we all went away, and weweren't buying electric GE
anymore, the battery industrywouldn't miss us. There's so
much there's so much biggeropportunities. That's where the
development opportunities aregoing to be focused in will
ultimately benefit from that,for sure. Anyone else
Max Gosney (21:55):
wants to comment on lithium and battery technology
in their fleets. Now, your headsgo back, no one's no one's going
to take that one on? How wouldthe panel like to see the supply
chain? You're sharing the costof investment and adoption of
more sustainable GSC to getalignment and to speed, the
(22:15):
rollout of more sustainableequipment? And can adoption ever
be coordinated? When you havethe supply chain? And component
parts of supply chain are incompetition, different airlines,
different ground handlers? Sohow do we align better on our on
sharing some of the cost ofimplementing new technology
forms game,
Gabe Sampson (22:34):
I think it goes back to what Marty said earlier.
I mean, it's it's thepartnership between the airlines
and airports, right? If theairports and they are already
doing it, but if they continuetheir efforts to provide
charging infrastructure, thenthat makes the justification for
an airline to buy electric GSE ano brainer, you don't have to
invest that cash and chargersand you can go focus your effort
on in your funds on buying thevehicle, you need to do your
(22:56):
job. I think that acceleratesthe process. Some airports are
going even further and ofcourse, mandating, you know, the
airlines by electric GSE, kindof in exchange for them putting
in the infrastructure so thatthat mandate certainly speeds up
the process as well.
Max Gosney (23:10):
Can you Sorry, I was
Erwan Jalil (23:11):
gonna say the cost equation is actually positive.
Right? So obviously, you savetremendously on fuel. And the
cost of electricity, by andlarge is that, you know, is a
winter maintenance. So it's morethe capex hurdle in certain
situations, and there you'vegot, obviously financing
financing solutions that you canput in place. So I think it's,
it's not so much a cost drivenbarrier today, it's it's really
(23:35):
more indeed, thesynchronization, the
coordination, to make it happenwith all stakeholders aligned.
But again, most operators, alloperators will actually win from
a cost standpoint, goingelectric, there's no question.
Unknown (23:48):
And
Josh Parkin (23:48):
just to add, I think, you know, there's other
models that can be considered interms of how, whether it's
airlines or the airports thatare monetizing that, you know,
with the smart chargingtechnology, you're able to see
and recognize the batteries arecharging. So there's opportunity
for power, selling of power orproviding charge as a service
and using telemetry typeoptions. So there are kind of
(24:10):
different models that can beexplored as well to help offset
the costs and make it actually arevenue generating opportunity.
Todd Ernst (24:17):
I just put out there that with the expansion phase
that we're going into withPearson lift, it's actually
presented an opportunity for usto do some of the large scale
upgrades or electricalinfrastructure to be able to
bring in the the EV and E GSE.
Charging to help support ourpartners. So our objective is by
about 2030, that we've gotenough charging capacity out
(24:40):
there that you know, all of ourGSE can be electric so that you
know the support will be therein terms of infrastructure.
Excellent. Thank
Max Gosney (24:50):
you. Questions come in for you, Matt, which asked
How are leasing companiesstrategically looking at
electric equipment for theircustomers, and how do you stay
ahead of the demand in order toFor people to preside, in order
to provide the equipment in afast manner,
Matthew Weitzel (25:05):
it's a real balance. Because the industry as
we've been talking about isreally kind of moving at a
slower rate than we then I thinkwe kind of expected due to the
constraints of the airport asfar as infrastructure. So we are
investing heavily into electricequipment. However, we're not
going all in it, we're not notall of our fleet is going to be
(25:26):
electric, we're going to buyboth internal combustion and
electric. So but we have beendoing a lot of the purchasing a
lot of electric equipment from abunch of different manufacturers
just so that way. We have stuffso that people can try it and
put it into their fleet and testit out. So, you know, it's been,
it's been great. So and then Ihad a question for, I think,
(25:49):
David, are you all planningSwissport? Planning on
repowering, a bunch of currentinternal combustion? Or are you
looking to buy and purchase newelectric equipment.
David Farias (26:00):
So I think it's probably more of a cost
equation. So we are interestedin both solutions at the end of
the day, but the price pointstoday on new equipment are very
competitive to what it wouldcost to repower a piece of
equipment. We are talking with acouple of manufacturers to see
what we can do as far as thatrepowering goes. But right now,
our friends here on stage arevery, very competitive in terms
(26:23):
of making it a better product ifwe went with a new unit. That
Max Gosney (26:27):
was a groundskeeper follow up questions will ask you
what percentage of the fleet inthe future GC hydrogen
comprising? Do you have someprojections,
David Farias (26:37):
we're a bit risk averse, I think on the Swissport
space. So lithium is stillsomething that we're not fully
diving into just yet. So fromhydrogen perspective, I'm not
sure that we're going to seethat in the next couple of
years.
Max Gosney (26:51):
Thank you wait, wait and see how Yeah,
Todd Ernst (26:54):
not to see specific by thought be worth mentioning.
We do actually have our firsthydrogen fuel station under
construction. It's in latecommissioning stages at Toronto
Pearson his groundside. But weare looking to have a percentage
of our fleet, we're startingwith five hydrogen, passenger
vehicles, and municipal transit.
So we're starting to see and getinterested in the potential for
(27:16):
hydrogen as a percentage oftheir fleets. So battery
electric is definitely you know,broadly speaking, you know, the
more market ready more readilyavailable. And it is great in a
lot of applications, there aresome applications where hydrogen
does a little bit better, it's Ithink, ultimately, it's going to
become like gasoline and dieselis what battery electric and
hydrogen will eventually bewhere, you know, high torque,
(27:39):
you know, heavy use applicationswill tend to lean a bit more
towards hydrogen, but alsoencourage folks to consider
that, you know, over the longerterm as the both mature and
become more available toconsider the, you know, the
flexibility that alternatives toelectrification can provide.
Just
Max Gosney (28:00):
throw it out back to the the manufacturers on the
panel. But do you see that?
Brad, do you think that theheavier lifting kit may or may
become more hydrogen based? I
Brad Compton (28:09):
don't think we somewhat unknown. I would think
for us right now. I mean, we'reso heavily focused on making
sure we're gonna get it rightwith the lithium in these
different charging systems,different batteries, make sure
everything's talking together.
But yeah, like I said, it's,it's creeping up there on us,
but we'll, we'll gauge it at alater point in time.
Max Gosney (28:28):
Thank you, Josh.
Yeah,
Josh Parkin (28:29):
just add in there.
If Oshkosh is positioned, aswe're really power agnostic, we
continue to have internalcombustion engine options. Most
of our fleet have the option forelectric and you know, as we've
started hearing demand forhydrogen, we want to be
comfortable with the technologyso that when the market is
ready, that we have a greatsolution. And for us, the number
one is that we want to have ouroperators or owners of our
(28:53):
equipment not have to makecompromises as it relates to
operating. So if they're goingto choose hydrogen, they're
going to choose electric orinternal combustion. We want it
to be able to perform a fullshift and not worry about power
or running out of energy. And sothat's our number one is to make
sure whatever ultimately bringthe market to our customers is
going to work great for him.
Unknown (29:12):
Thank you.
Max Gosney (29:12):
Another question from the floor asks, How does
the panel feel about a fullyelectric di so from an operative
maintenance and serviceabilitystandpoint, is it truly
feasible?
Unknown (29:22):
Yeah. Oh,
Brad Compton (29:23):
I think 100% Yes.
And we're working on that now.
On our innovative safe aero diSir, we're gonna go that
direction, and I think it's 100%accomplishable. These
Josh Parkin (29:33):
Oshkosh degrees
Max Gosney (29:35):
will be there as well. And so already in the
market, I believe there areoptions there. Vestergaard
Brad Compton (29:40):
it's kinda like a coming soon for us. Yes. I think
it's definitely it's like goingback to that point is if you
just don't jump into the deepend, right. You want to make
sure it's vetted out thetechnology's there and you
touched on maintenance training.
So yeah, we'll go through a veryextensive demo phase, but yeah,
it's common. It's gonna comequickly. You gotta get there.
David Farias (30:00):
We'd love to see it on our site as well. At the
end of the day, the smallerpieces your back to your belt
litters, you can see that theTCO was there. And then those de
icing trucks that you need towork, when it comes the
breakdowns on those units todayis far too high, and it's
probably the rail liabilitythat's gonna go and increase if
we can get to that point.
Max Gosney (30:18):
Thank you and move on to the next question here,
which is how much of anopportunity is there to market
the adoption of electric andsustainable GSC during pushback
and turnaround to increasinglyenvironmentally aware
passengers? Marty, is thatsomething you'd ever look to do
as an airline there to sort ofpromote the fact you're using
electric or hydrogen kit duringduring pushback? Yeah,
Marty Gray (30:41):
absolutely. I think there's tremendous opportunity.
And it's certainly that we arevery cognizant to is, you know,
is what opportunity would thatpresent. So appropriate
branding, electrification brandidentifications, our customers,
not only our customers, but ouremployees see what our
commitments are, when it's frontand center, it's essentially,
you know, in some hubs, it'supwards of 1000 assets, that
(31:04):
could have potential opportunityto do just that. Share what our
ambitions are, and get a lot ofemployee sentiment a lot
employee engagement. Absolutely.
I think it's a tremendousopportunity, and one that you
will see us adopting to, and
Max Gosney (31:20):
our views on David.
Yeah,
David Farias (31:23):
I mean, from a brand perspective, I think
there's a tremendous amount ofopportunity to make sure that
we're highlighting that to notonly our internal customers, but
our external customers. It'sthere. And I think, from a
corporate social governancepiece, it's all the way around.
So from government, tomunicipalities, and to our
manufacturers and friends.
Everyone wants a piece of this.
Thank you. And
Max Gosney (31:42):
now the question is coming from the audience, which
asked, What's the glycol heatingtime on your electric devices?
Brad Compton (31:49):
Specific? I'm not ready for that one yet.
Unknown (31:51):
But no, no?
How could you
Brad Compton (31:55):
say it's fast?
It's gonna be really, reallyfast.
Max Gosney (31:58):
We're saying fast.
Brad Compton (32:00):
It's gonna be a rabbit, not a turtle. It's gonna
go fast.
Max Gosney (32:03):
Yeah, we'll look at the text back and get back to
you on that one. I think to geta deeper answer we have we've
talked about hydrogen, we talkedabout electric, I'd be
interested to get the panel'sviews on other alternatives.
They might see the biofuels oranything else you think will be
a serious player further downthe line. I can just talk talk,
(32:23):
start with the closest to me,and I'll move down to Sure.
Todd Ernst (32:25):
I mean, I can just say from the perspective of our
own fleet management, we'relooking at everything. We're
looking at electric, we'relooking at hydrogen, we're
actually doing our first trialswith renewable diesel this
summer.
Max Gosney (32:37):
Josh, I
Josh Parkin (32:38):
think I was just gonna mention in terms of
biofuels, we certainly areseeing an increase of adoption
there. It's a common questionthat we'll get from our
equipment owners as to whetherthey can run different biofuels
into in their engines? And inmost cases, the answer is yes,
particularly tear for finals formost of our manufacturers with
Cummins droits. We're seeingthat work successfully. There's
(32:58):
some things that we suggest thatthey do to help with filtering,
etc. But generally speaking,that's a great option. And we
see that adopted more and morearound the world. Mati
Max Gosney (33:07):
will, do you see sort of biofuels being part of
the future? I do lead strategy?
Marty Gray (33:11):
I do. And we're certainly aware of it. We're
keeping, you know, keeping eyeson it. Electrification is
certainly keeping us busy. And Ithink, you know, we've made
commitment in our people andinvestment in equipment. There's
a significant component ofchange management behaviors
ramp, there's a lot ofopportunity here. And think I'm
(33:31):
going to lean on the experts atthe appropriate time to look at
alternative fields. But it'svery, very important for us to
get into electrification and toget it right. And really
maximize what we've set out todo. Right, let's meet our
obligations. First priority. Ijust don't want to get, you
know, trying to do so manydifferent things that, that we
let opportunities slip by. And
Max Gosney (33:52):
other comments from the panel on our fuels. Know,
Bradley, not not sure I can seewhere your face now
Brad Compton (33:59):
an expert on biofuels, but we know we have
the options for you know, Imean, some of the value you can
bring from different suppliersand these guys on the stage as
well, as you know, we still runan awful lot of gasoline
engines. The diesels are laggingbehind, but we still have demand
for diesel as well. You just gotto keep up with the type four
type five type six type deals,but yeah, you got to kind of
(34:20):
have it all in. But the focus ison electrification.
Marty Gray (34:24):
What's good to know is that there's you know,
there's options being developedin the background, whether it's
other industry, transport,mining, you know, so we may not
necessarily have them today, butwhat does tomorrow look like?
But again, our focus needs mustbe to remain just on
electrification. But it's alwaysso is good to know that industry
is driving change elsewhere.
Max Gosney (34:45):
Thank you another question from the floor, which
asks, do you see challenges withrespect to maintenance staff for
E GSE? The skills for repairsand troubleshooting become a lot
are very different fromtraditional diesel, motorcycles.
Better engines? Aremanufacturers able to assist
with competencies for staffcurrently most fuel repair costs
(35:06):
are far higher for electricJessie.
Brad Compton (35:08):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's a good point. And
yeah, I think the manufacturersare more than willing to help.
And it's Marty would tell you toit's there's a learning curve. I
mentioned high voltage, that's awhole different ballgame when he
talks about, you know, gettingin there and doing some
maintenance. So training is key.
And we understand that and we'reready for that. From
Josh Parkin (35:29):
Josh perspective, that's typically what we see as
well is that there's, you know,when to change, when people
either have mixed fleets orelectrics new to their station,
there's a learning curve. Butgenerally speaking, the
experience that our customersshare is not only the fuel
savings and the return oninvestment they get from that,
but they are seeing reduction intheir actual total cost of
ownership for maintenance,repairs, the improvement around
(35:51):
not only battery technology, buton AC DC motors and brushless
technology in terms of motors,that's really helped reduce
maintenance over time, and hasnot only allowing people to go
zero mission, but really helpingthe bottom line as well. So
David Farias (36:05):
we see positive aspects of that, I think I'd say
the industry has probably notbeen getting too healthy. In
that regard. There's been atraining gap inside of that
space, even when you hadtraditional ice engines. And now
that we're going toelectrification, there's still a
significant gap opportunities tobe had with the manufacturers
providing that training, butalso in terms of introducing new
(36:26):
vocational programs that can getfolks excited to get into this
industry. So that's been laggingand great opportunities there.
Yeah, I
Erwan Jalil (36:34):
do think it's a, it's going to be a challenge, as
we successfully hopefully deployelectrical equipment in electric
equipment in the on the rampover the coming, you know, five
years is to really upgrade theskill sets. You need much more
electrical savvy, you know,skills, sometimes software
(36:54):
related skills, which, you know,we've had to gain on the OEM
side, but are yet to fully, Ithink, document and establish
associated programs. So some ofour customers are insisting on
this. And I think they're right,we need to do more of that as
OEMs. We're determined to do it.
And today, that's a thing that'sgoing to be a challenge in the
year two in the in the next two,three years, as we see more EGC
(37:17):
Come on, come on the ramp.
Max Gosney (37:20):
No question that's come in, which is what are some
of the documented results andcustomer feedback on the mobile
charging units currently used onthe ramp?
Josh Parkin (37:30):
I'd love to take that one. Sure. So late last
year, Oshkosh released themobile charging solution, which
is called the amp cart that wasdeveloped in partnership with a
customer hope you don't mind mementioning that DHL by name.
They were like many of youtrying to decide how they could
speed up the electrification oftheir GSE fleet, but also know
(37:52):
with confidence that they hadthe ability to charge and that's
where they amp cart came into,to play working with partners,
like Avaris to preside providethe ampere policy chargers can
charge between eight and 12pieces of GSE. We have deployed,
I think, over a half a dozenairports, I think there's close
to a dozen units in the fieldright now. And it is helping
(38:14):
that mobile charging. In thiscase, the first version is a
diesel generator driven, it canalso be powered from facility
power to provide additionalcharging options, and it will
ultimately help bridge the gapas as you know, a lot of topics
we've been discussing and tryingto catch up with the
infrastructure required to therapid expansion of, of GSE. Just
(38:36):
one more point on that. GroundSupport worldwide did a survey
earlier this year. And mostcustomers said they wanted to
expand their electric fleets and70. I think 71% said the single
biggest reason why they weren'tmoving faster on electric GSE
investment was due to lack ofcharging infrastructure. So we
opened our small part, theampark can help help support
that
Max Gosney (38:56):
guy, did you want to come through and comment on the
development in that area? And
Gabe Sampson (39:01):
absolutely, like Josh alluded to, I think the SAM
cart products been been verysuccessful, right? It's solved
the immediate problems, right.
So that so that airlines orcargo carriers or ground
handlers could or could deployelectric GSC. And they'll
certainly be more that to come Iknow, there's been a lot of
interest in that product line.
We also introduced sort of in aparallel unrelated effort, what
(39:22):
we call a ramp runner, which isa simpler version of a mobile
charging cart that is powered by400 hertz ground power. So when
a when a when a gate is notoccupied, you can take the GPU
cable, plug it into this cart,which is essentially the size of
a bad card. And you know,recharge five pieces of GSE
around this cart. So kind of asimilar concept two totally
(39:43):
different in technology. Butagain, just trying to bridge
that gap in between GSC aresorry, electric GSE being
delivered, and permanentcharging infrastructure being
installed. So I think ingeneral, it's, you know that
that concept, I think you'regonna see more and more of it. I
know there's other I've seenother people Alex being
introduced in our industry aswell, just
Erwan Jalil (40:03):
one thing I have seen in Europe and in China is
the use of GPU. So ground powerunits that are electric more and
more, right battery poweredGPUs, that can also be used as
power banks, meaning sources ofelectricity for the GSE around
it. And it's a great way toutilize, you know, mobile assets
that are sources of electricityaround the aircraft to address
(40:27):
that gap. I think that will comein the US, too, in the years to
come. Thank you,
Max Gosney (40:33):
David. Sorry, Marcia, even smile says Hi,
Marty Gray (40:36):
you know, I can't say enough about, you know, what
the amp cart afforded us AirCanada with with flexibility, it
really came in at at theappropriate time. And it really
did a tremendous job, you know,bridging the gap of what we had
taken delivery of what was notthere to support it. But what
this, what this afforded us todo has been tremendous is to the
(41:00):
fact that Air Canada, we'reoperating with three of them
now. And boy, it certainly havedone its job. And then again,
strategically, as we start tosee the commissioning of charge
or availability, again, there'smore opportunity, because then
we can redeploy it, and it'sbeing mobile, we can move it to
other airports, taking delivery,and then really start to drive,
(41:24):
change culture, change how weoperate in other places. It's
been a fantastic asset for us.
Max Gosney (41:31):
And it's a great stepping stone, which is why
we're here and while theinfrastructure is under
development.
Matthew Weitzel (41:36):
So Marty, will you only take the aim cart to
places airports that theinfrastructure is already on its
way? Or are you looking to maybedeploy that, even if there's not
infrastructure already goinginto place?
Marty Gray (41:48):
Yellow? Again, it's, strategically we are putting it
in locations where we are takingdelivery of equipment, obviously
proportionate to scale, but whenwe know, you know, we are, we've
already got establishedtimelines for availability of
charging, but there's a team inthe background, they're also
synchronizing that with anotherstrategy to move it to
(42:10):
locations, where again, youknow, equipment is coming in,
it's going to allow us to dojust that. The mobility element
of the cart and such is, it's,it's been fantastic
strategically,
Brad Compton (42:23):
because we're pulling that around with
electric tractor, right? dieseltrucks. Thanks, Brad.
Gabe Sampson (42:30):
Brad, that's an interesting comment. You know,
it does sound a littlecounterproductive to recharge
electric vehicles with a dieselgenerator, right. But, you know,
think about it, I drive toelectric cars, I like to say
they're coal powered, becauseultimately, there's a power
plant somewhere, typicallyburning something that, you
(42:51):
know, provides the electricity.
But the beauty of that is it's asingle point source of emission,
right? So they can you canmonitor it, you can capture
data, you can capture, you know,pollutants and handle it
correctly, as opposed to a bunchof vehicles run around that
maybe you're not regulatedproperly. Right. So in this case
with the endcard. I have notdone the numbers myself, but I'm
sure sure Oshkosh has, but thenet reduction in emissions is
probably still pretty damnsignificant, right to get one
(43:13):
big diesel generator running ata really high efficiency, you
know, replacing a bunch of smalldiesel engines that are running
at very low efficiency. So theimpact should be very, fairly
positive, just just on a usecase basis. Yeah,
Josh Parkin (43:27):
precisely, you know, depending on what the size
of the batteries that you'reusing, or replacing the size of
the engine with the fuel burnwas, but we just did a review
with a customer last week, andthey were replacing 16 pieces of
diesel GSE with electric, andthey're going to support that
fleet with the amp cart. And welooked at worst case scenarios
only being supported by thediesel engine, they were seeing
close to 77 0% reduction in co2emissions, trading out 16 diesel
(43:53):
engines for one. So it is a it'snot a zero emission solution.
But it absolutely is a huge stepin the right direction.
Max Gosney (44:00):
Thank you. What impacted the panel? See if we're
saying that we're moving towardsa kind of a mixed power source
mix, fleet model in the futureof electric hydrogen, other
power sources? What impact willthat have on on ownership
patterns amongst groundhandlers, operators, who are
going to see good news for Mattand exceed more of a shift to to
(44:20):
leasing models? because there'llbe such variability and change?
Matthew Weitzel (44:25):
Yeah, I like that idea.
David Farias (44:28):
I think from our Grinling perspective, we prefer
to own our equipment so much,you're sorry about that. Short
term needs? Absolutely. We'llwe'll reach out. But the shift
to remain I think long termownership is the key. And the
useful life of electricequipment seems like it's going
to outpace ice equipment. So itlooks like it's definitely gonna
support the case. No, no
Max Gosney (44:48):
major shift. Do you think in financing models as a
result? No, certainly not.
Swissport?
David Farias (44:52):
Not with us none.
Max Gosney (44:54):
Okay. Thank you.
Other questions come in, relatedto glycol, so Have the
manufacturers on the panel thatwill be there with glycol
heating, temps times for anelectric platform, do you
believe it will surpass that ofa diesel offering? Right.
Brad Compton (45:09):
I think it's too early to tell. I think we're
still reviewing that. I don'tknow if it'll surpass where we
are now. But we'll see.
Josh Parkin (45:18):
We're not to a point where we're talking about
the specific specs of theElectric Gas at this time, but
we'll keep you posted.
Brad Compton (45:24):
Let me it's a good question. That's gonna that'll
be something we'll have tofigure out and have that data,
because that'll be certainly aquestion we get asked when we
get there.
Max Gosney (45:31):
Excellent. Thank you. Can the panel comment on
safety, potential safetyconcerns on both lithium
batteries and hydrogen? I
Gabe Sampson (45:41):
could talk about batteries. I don't I don't have
a lot of experience withhydrogen. But so there's there's
absolutely safety risks withbatteries, right? I mean, if no
different with a fuel tank,right? I mean, a battery is a
fuel tank, it stores electronsor energy instead of gasoline or
diesel. And it it can go bad,right? Luckily, it doesn't
happen very often. You know,we're not we're not dealing with
(46:02):
this on a daily basis. But Ithink there's, there's from the
battery manufacturersperspective, there's a lot of
effort by you know, these goodquality manufacturers put into
safety features, to to meetingcertain certifications, like UL
standards for batterymanufacturing, there's a lot a
lot of effort put into thecontrols of the batteries to
(46:22):
limit detrimental conditionslike over discharge and
overcharge. And that's typicallywhen things can go really wrong.
So I think the design of theproduct is key, you can design a
very, very safe lithium battery,just like you can with a you
know, an internal combustionvehicle. And operation is key.
So that that comes witheducation. So you know, we spend
(46:43):
a lot of time educating themaintenance teams and the
operations teams about theserisks, and then what to do if
something does go wrong, butmost of it is about prevention.
And there's there's quite a biteffort being put into that
there's, there's SAE committeesfocused on it, there's, there's
NFPA regulations being writtenaround it. So it's obviously
like, again, like, like I saidearlier, we're a small piece of
(47:04):
the battery world. So we'regoing to inherit a lot of the
knowledge from the overallbattery community that is
developing the standards, and itshould make us all safer.
Max Gosney (47:14):
Thank you guys.
Other comments?
Todd Ernst (47:16):
I can talk a little bit yeah, hydrogen safety side,
given we have the fill stationthat we were getting some
experience with. It's it's beenhad its first charge of hydrogen
already for testing purposes.
And I'd say it's, I wouldn't sayit's more or less safe than
conventional fuels, it justneeds to be handled differently.
(47:36):
At the end of the day, in openair situations, if there's a
leak, it can actually be moresafe in the fact that hydrogen
rises, and it disperses veryquickly. So as long as it's a
dispersion that's belowcombustion concentrations, and
there's no source to ignite it,it goes into the air and it's
(47:58):
completely non toxic, and you'refine. Whereas with the fuel
spill, you've got this pool onthe ground that you have to deal
with, and and contain and cleanup and potentially also toxics
in the soil. Now if it's if it'sa covered situation, then then
you have a different situation,but it can be mitigated by
having sensors to make sure thatyou know any leaks, if they come
up against the ceiling thatthey're you know, it's not
(48:20):
pooling at a high pointsomewhere, that would be a
safety concern. But again, withsensors, pressures, detection,
whatnot, it's it's all quitemanageable. Thank you.
Max Gosney (48:32):
I'm David and Marty, as you know, in terms of, I
guess, lithium, perhaps there'ssomething that you're very much
looking at the safety trainingacross operators users.
Marty Gray (48:43):
Yeah, I mean, you know, Eric and I were safety
first and always. So it'sembedded in anything that we do.
So when we start, you know, whenwe were getting into
electrification, again, there'sa lot of research and I take
great comfort in those who aresupporting us, when when you see
standards being applied tomanufacturing, the safe
(49:03):
handling. Even in Canada,there's an element of this where
you start talking high voltage,Evie, it's regulated. These are
all things that give us a greatsense of comfort around safety,
David Farias (49:16):
and good safety first all the way through and
that's why I think we're alittle bit risk averse to
lithium Swissport. As Gabementioned earlier, lead acid is
very mature seems to work justfine opportunity charges there.
And if you do that to take careof it so far that's that's the
direction we're gonna continueto go and have a panel
Brad Compton (49:34):
I think too. You know, from a manufacturer
standpoint, you come up here youtalk product, I think we miss a
lot about the value add we allhave as our when we look at our
factories, and we spend a lot oftime training, continuously
training, the folks that arebuilding the equipment and
working on the equipment and ourfield tech, so it's it's number
one for us safety but also justmaking sure they understand the
(49:56):
technology and the risks outthere because it's always
changing.
Max Gosney (49:59):
Thank you And we've got seven, eight minutes left
Ladies and Gents for you got anyfinal questions, then please put
them through an app where youcan raise your hand, just to
make sure we get through all theaudience questions this
afternoon. I just want to, Iguess there's a sort of summary
perspective from the panel justwanted to ask you to outline how
you see the ramp changing herein the Americas market over the
(50:23):
next 1015 years and what it willlook like how different it will
look on the power sources, wewill see if the ramp of say 2035
Brad Compton (50:31):
I'm surprised we haven't talked autonomous. I
think that's still in theconversation. I think it's going
to take a while before we getthere. Yeah, I think you're
gonna see a lot of things on theramp change. Maybe it's going to
happen with how safely in howquickly we get that aircraft for
support, the team is turningthat aircraft around. Yeah,
you're always gonna see, I thinkwe're at a point where you're
(50:52):
gonna see innovation, you'regonna see something new every
year, I think something like theramp cart, something going into
autonomous, there's always gonnabe something coming up, and it's
gonna come up pretty quick howit looks in 10 years, I think
you're gonna see chargerinfrastructure catch up, be a
little cleaner, and hopefully alot smoother.
Max Gosney (51:08):
Thanks, Marty.
Marty Gray (51:10):
I think we're going to see, you know, trends change
over the years. And I'mcertainly, you know, advocate
for just that for change, doingmore with less, safer, you know,
removing a whole lot of whatcould be seen as the human
factor in unfortunate incidents,accidents, you know,
decongesting, some of the rampspace, but really giving our
(51:33):
people the best that we can getthem to perform their functions.
But all that to say, I seetremendous change coming in
years to come. Tournaments wouldbe another, you know, great
example of what that could looklike. Remote control, you know,
the likes of the modal talk. Imean, these are all big
significant game changers in themarket. Josh?
Josh Parkin (51:55):
Yeah, from an Oshkosh perspective, we just
continue to look to our marketour customers and look to see
what they define as success. Andoftentimes, that means operator
safety, it means increasedefficiency and reduced cost. And
then ultimately, they want ahighly reliable piece of
equipment. So we'll continue tofocus on innovations that help
in those three areas.
Gabe Sampson (52:18):
Electric, right, I mean, that's what we're all
talking about it there's gonnabe much more electrical
equipment, but I think it's, Ithink it's going to be different
in a few ways. I'm a bigbeliever in automotive charging
technology making its way on toairport ramps. It's been
mentioned a couple times today,but as as fleet vehicles start
(52:38):
driving around that areelectric, you're gonna need a
way to charge them and why can'tthe same charger that charges
that vehicle, which is astandard, right, that we all can
live by my cat that also chargedGSE? Right, I think I think that
is the future for for theelectrification efforts that are
going forward, it's gonna takesome time, because there's a lot
of legacy equipment that youcan't just abandon. But I think
you'll start to see chargersvery soon that have both
(53:03):
capabilities. And then I thinkeventually you'll see a trend
towards the automotive standardas the charger of choice for for
airports.
Max Gosney (53:10):
Thank you what's the Swissport fleet look like in
2035? The question,
David Farias (53:15):
I'd say it's it'll be a half electric by then
hopefully, from motorized side.
But I think it'll be a saferramp. I think that the end of
the day, the innovations thatare taking place from a user
perspective are are leaps andbounds from where we were 10
years ago. And if we can getmore of an electric fleet, I
think that gives us morecontrols to engineer out some of
the risk until we get topotentially an autonomous ramp.
Max Gosney (53:36):
Thank you.
Unknown (53:37):
Oh, one,
Erwan Jalil (53:38):
you know, I think one typically underestimates
what can be achieved over 10years and over estimates, what
can be achieved over one year.
So I think 10 years from now, Ithink all of this is going to be
happening, much fewer people onthe ramp, and much more
automation, much saferenvironment, much more activity,
you know, that automation willenable. So that's very exciting,
(53:58):
I think and as OEMs, you know,we obviously are totally
committed to push furtherinnovations in a safe way and
work with the whole communityhere to make that a reality. But
they're very optimistic aboutthe change.
Max Gosney (54:15):
Thank you.
Todd Ernst (54:17):
Pretty much everything that's been said.
Yeah, trouble of going towardsthe end. Yeah, exactly. But, I
mean, yeah, I might be a bit ofan outlier in terms of how
bullish am and hydrogen. I dothink it. It's not the magic
bullet, but it does have a placein the mix. I think it will be
in the mix. And yeah,electrification, Saf, it's all
(54:38):
going to be out there and it'sgonna be much greener and and
also safer. apron,
Max Gosney (54:43):
and at Toronto, Pearson and other airports. The
infrastructure will have movedon, right. Yes, absolutely.
Excellent. Excellent news forus. Yeah,
Matthew Weitzel (54:52):
I'd say that if you want to learn more about how
GSE is going to change in thenext 10 years, you should listen
to GSC podcasts. where we, wecover all these topics from
automation to electrification? Imean, you can in telematics, you
can get all of it on the GSCpodcast. So I think, you know,
we didn't rehearse that. Soyeah, I'm gonna continue having
those conversations with peoplein the industry so they can
(55:15):
really learn about what's comingdown the pipeline. Thank
Max Gosney (55:18):
you. And I'd also say, also bit delighted to
welcome all of the audience tofind out more at GSC Expo
Europe, which is happening inLisbon. see on the slide there,
70 to 90 September, allmanufacturers in the room will
be there working with the IMAteam agenda and the team and the
issues that were covered duringthis discussion.
electrification, hydrogen,biofuels, autonomous vehicle
(55:41):
safety, that will all be underunder the microscope there, and
I'll be equipment demos, and youguys will be showing off the
latest solution. So make a notethe dates and the store is going
to run, isn't it?
Matthew Weitzel (55:52):
Yeah, I'm Max.
And I had to plug some stuff atthe end, right. So I also
Max Gosney (55:56):
have to finish in under an hour because I don't
wanna give you too much editingto do on the cutting room floor.
But ladies and gents, we we wereally appreciate all your
questions that have come in andyour engagement in the
discussion. Thank you very much.
Please join me in giving ourpanel a big round of applause.
Thank you.
(56:18):
Can't help. My last question toput Matt on the spot. And when
might the audience be listeningto this one? Episode, there's no
pressure if
Matthew Weitzel (56:27):
it is a great question. Get this out next
week. So everybody can reallyenjoy listening to this all over
again next week,
Max Gosney (56:35):
and we will send that to you. We'll send a link
to you and make sure you knowwhen it is released and enjoy
the lesson. Thank you all verymuch.
Matthew Weitzel (56:50):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the
GSC podcast. We hope you foundit informative and engaging. If
this episode resonated with you,please share it with your
colleagues and peers and theground support equipment
community. Your support isinvaluable to us. We'd
appreciate if you could take amoment to rate and review our
podcast. Your feedback not onlyencourages us but also helps
(57:11):
expand our reach within the GSEcommunity. Keep an eye out for
more episodes as we continue toexplore the dynamic world of
ground operations bring you thelatest trends, insights and
stories from the industry. Thankyou are listening to the GSD
podcast. And until we meetagain. stay grounded and keep
pushing forward.
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