We trace the real state of GSE electrification with Allen Energy, from lead acid to lithium, gate power hacks to mobile carts, and the path toward high voltage and autonomy. Practical fixes, safety truths, and a universal identifier that finally tames mixed chargers anchor a grounded, useful talk.
• Allen Energy’s origin and shift from material handling to GSE
• Lead acid dominance today and lithium’s rising share
• NMC, LFP, and NCA roles with embedded safety and heating
• ACT dual‑port chargers, ActView telemetry, and firmware support
• Gate charging realities and 400 Hz compatibility
• The mobile Juice Box cart bringing power to equipment
• Telematics for remote diagnostics and faster uptime
• Cold weather charging rules and heater management
• Lead‑to‑lithium retrofits, controller parameters, and CAN signals
• High voltage timeline, EV alignment, and standardization needs
• Universal “Todd Box” identifier for cross‑brand charging
• Autonomy readiness with wireless charging and safety considerations
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Looking for dependable and on demand ground support equipment leasing? Fortbrand is your go to partner. We specialize in tailored operating leases for airlines, cargo carriers, and ground handlers, delivering top tier equipment without the wait. From the latest electric GSE to traditional units, Fortbrand offers flexible terms, competitive rates, and a customer experience that is second to none. Keep your ramp moving with confidence. Visit fortbrand.com and experience GSE leasing redefined.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Weitzel (00:00):
This episode of the GSE Podcast is brought to
you by Fort Brand, not youreveryday GSE provider.
We go beyond belt loaders andbag tractors, offering
towbarless pushbacks, de-icers,and airport maintenance
equipment, all available ondemand across North America and
(00:21):
the UK.
Whether you need electric unitsto support your ESG goals or
traditional equipment fortoday's rant, Fort Brand
delivers flexible leasing withthe option of full-service
maintenance to keep your fleetat peak performance.
When you partner with FortBrand, you get more than
equipment.
You get expertise, reliability,and a commitment to keeping
(00:43):
your operation running smoothly.
Visit Fortbrand.com to learnmore.
This is Christian Eitner.
This is Kyle Brunner.
This is Calder War.
This is Ronan Malahan, and youare listening to the GSE
podcast.
All right.
(01:04):
Well, welcome to the GSEPodcast.
I'm Matt Weitzel, and today Iam joined by Allen Energy.
So I have Todd Allen and DevinSinclair.
And they are both joining me atthe Orlando office today, the
new, the new podcast studio thatI'm setting up that's not quite
there yet, but we're we atleast have a room, right?
(01:26):
And that's the most that's thethat's the start of a podcast
studio.
So we're gonna get there, andtoday we're we're videoing this
one.
So hopefully that works out.
So, Todd, how's it going?
Now you live in Orlando, right?
Todd Allen (01:37):
Or somewhere near I live I live southwest Orlando in
Windermere, about half hourfrom here, and been living here
for about 25 years.
Oh wow.
So what brought you to theOrlando area?
It was to get into the batterybusiness.
Oh, really?
I was I was graduating frombusiness school, and there was a
little company owned by ownedby a couple guys in Missouri who
(02:03):
wanted to sell it, and it wastwo field techs that went around
and fixed battery, you know,industrial batteries and
chargers for forklifts.
Oh and I wouldn't say that wasmy start if we want to go really
far back.
When I was in undergrad, we Ihad a job at a battery company
welding cables and assetadjustments and load tests.
(02:24):
And I I worked for uh alsoworked for a company that did
consulting for internationalbattery factories.
So I got a start a long timeago.
Matt Weitzel (02:33):
So you've been in the battery industry for how
many years then?
Well, or at least let's not golet's not let's not put a number
to it.
Todd Allen (02:41):
So so a long time since 25 years in Orlando.
Okay.
Uh in the battery business,starting out doing material
handling, forklifts.
Okay.
And then I'd say about 20 yearsin GSE.
Matt Weitzel (02:54):
Wow.
Nice.
Okay.
And then uh how did AllenEnergy uh get its start?
So when did you actually foundit?
Todd Allen (03:02):
I was founded in in 2000 when I moved to Orlando.
Matt Weitzel (03:07):
Okay.
Todd Allen (03:07):
I end it eventually sold that business, the material
handling business, just tofocus on GSE.
And in the beginning it was meand one assistant, and then it's
since grown from there.
Matt Weitzel (03:22):
So why GSE?
Like what made you move awayfrom material handling and and
come to our beautiful industryof GSE?
Todd Allen (03:31):
So while we were doing material handling, we had
dabbled into GSE from the verybeginning.
I mean, we when when we werethe industry was starting to
electrify, we were very much apart of that, starting with
American Airlines at the timeContinental.
And we became, you know, theindustry experts at the time.
(03:54):
Now there's a lot more players,but that was just like a side
business kind of that we gotpulled into out of a very
strange series of relationships,and then it became part of our
business.
And when I sold the materialhandling part, it was an easy
transition into GSE.
Matt Weitzel (04:12):
Yeah, for sure.
And then Devin, how did you getyour start in GSE?
I have no idea.
No, we all want to know.
Everybody's been asking me, andI'm like, dude, I don't worry,
I'm gonna ask him on thepodcast.
Devin Sinclair (04:25):
I, as you know, I have a I have a leasing
background.
Uh yes.
And I actually did not start inground support equipment.
I started with a company calledBalboa Capital.
We leased, you name it, and Ileased farm tractors to farmers
and dental chairs to dentists.
But from there I found some acommon background with the
current ownership of Mercury,and we kicked it off the the day
(04:48):
we met.
I mean, I just ended up workingfor his team.
Didn't know if I was ever gonnalike this industry.
I didn't even know what I wasgoing to sell.
I thought I was going to selljet bridges.
Oh, yeah, exactly.
Because that's what you know,right?
That's all I really knew.
I didn't understand that therewas a whole bunch of equipment
crawling around the airportunderneath the wing of the
aircraft.
But no, I I fell in love withit, and you know, I'm still
still here today.
Like I always say, once you go,once you go to GSE, you can
(05:12):
never really leave.
Matt Weitzel (05:13):
That's very true.
That's and uh we talk aboutthat a lot on the podcast is
something that comes up on Iguess about every other podcast
is like people try to leave, butthey can't.
Todd Allen (05:21):
I'll add that when I sold the business and was gonna
work on GSE, that was gonna bea one or two year project.
Matt Weitzel (05:28):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
See, that's 20 years later.
Devin Sinclair (05:31):
20 years later, you're still here, you can't
leave.
No, I mean there's there'ssomething that there's something
that that that just draws youin.
And I I think the the key pieceof it is the people, right?
And the relationships that weall have, the tight little
network that we have.
And you know, one of myfavorite things is going to the
GSE expo, not so much to go graball the business that's out
(05:52):
there, it's just so that I cansee everybody because we've got
a great relationship.
I mean, you can edit this outif you want, but there was a
point in time where you and Iwere competitors, but uh, you
know, I still always looked atat your team as as friends, and
there's something that's veryvaluable to that, and I
appreciate it.
So yeah, like I said, here Iam, and I I don't think I don't
(06:14):
think I'm ever leaving.
Matt Weitzel (06:15):
That's good.
I I never leaving.
Yeah, that yeah, that's right.
Well, you know, there's thisrumor going around the industry.
I don't know if you've heard itor not, but the reason that
Devin left was because he knewhe wouldn't be able to make it
on the podcast unless he went toanother company.
So there's some truth to that.
There is there's a lot of truthto that.
I keep being told that, but butanyway, so uh but we're here to
talk today about somethingthat's very important, and I'm
(06:38):
so glad that you all you knowdecided to come on the podcast
because obviouslyelectrification is top of mind
right now.
A lot of people are obviouslytalking about it.
We recently were awarded, youknow, Fort Brand was awarded T6.
We're going in as almost allelectric, and then eventually it
will be all electric.
So I think that's if we'retaking a nod from that, that's
(07:00):
kind of the way the industry ismoving.
And you all supply batteriesand and chargers to the
industry.
Devin Sinclair (07:07):
Yeah, what what a coincidence.
Matt Weitzel (07:09):
Right.
I know.
And so anyway, so it's it'sreally I'm glad that you're
here.
And let's start, let's starttalking about what Allen Energy
does, what you bring to thetable.
What kind of batterychemistries are you using right
now?
Devin Sinclair (07:21):
Uh I'll start.
We do, you know, historically,Allen Energy has done a ton of
lead acid.
And as the industry has shiftedand product demand has shifted
to lithium, we've brought on anew supplier whose name is
Calibri.
I'm sure a lot of peoplelistening to this know who
Calibri is.
But Calibri offers an NMCchemistry battery, which is
(07:46):
nickel, magnesium, cobalt.
You might have to edit that outif I got that wrong, but I
think I got it right.
Maybe manganese, but it's allright.
Matt Weitzel (07:56):
Tomato tomato.
Okay, got it.
I think you nailed it, Devin.
I think I did.
Yeah, yeah, you really did.
I'm proud of him.
Devin Sinclair (08:02):
That's good.
But no, Todd, I'll let you addon to that.
Todd Allen (08:06):
Well, and we also can offer iron phosphate.
Even in our our mobile chargingcart, we use an NCA battery.
It's a Tesla battery.
So we are very open to all thechemistries.
They have you know some prosand cons, but we try to use
primarily the safest battery,and then chemistry would be you
(08:30):
know for particularapplications.
Matt Weitzel (08:32):
So there's still air, I mean, as much as people
push lithium, there's still alot of people using lead acid,
right?
I mean, that is that is still Ithink is that still the
preferred?
I mean, in in like the airlineindustry, especially with
airlines, are they using leadacid?
Todd Allen (08:48):
Well, overwhelmingly, the the fleet of
batteries is lead acid.
It's 90 plus percent.
But in terms of new purchases,it's still more lead acid
because you're just replacingit's it's really hard to start
integrating a lithium into alarge fleet of lead acid.
It takes time.
(09:09):
But I think we're approachingin a 50% kind of range of as the
larger carriers are convertingto lithium, we're crossing over
to where it's going to be morelithium than lead,
industry-wide, and then justindustrial battery-wise, lead
acid isn't going away.
In fact, all the forecasts showlead acid will just remain
(09:32):
rather constant, and the growthin battery business will be in
different chemistries.
Yeah.
Devin Sinclair (09:37):
I think it's fair to say that this industry
is a little bit afraid ofchange, but I think that there
are some key players and a lotof educated people that are
coming to the table with realdata about lithium now, and
people are gaining a betterunderstanding of it and trusting
that making the switch could bebeneficial to their operation.
(10:01):
So I would say it's probably avery slow transition, but we are
seeing it happen and we can seeit happen in our numbers.
Matt Weitzel (10:10):
Yeah.
And then with chargers, so youall offer chargers as well.
So what what kind of charge,like what kind of chargers are
you offering to the industry?
Devin Sinclair (10:20):
We offer ACT chargers, advanced charging
technologies.
ACT offers single port GSEcharger rated for outdoor use as
well as indoor chargers aswell.
They offer a range of optionsfor both the AC input as well as
the AC output.
Or sorry, is it DC output?
(10:42):
Yeah, I got that one wrongagain, too.
But they are also offering anoption now for dual port
chargers, which is a very bigmove for them in this industry
because that's what a lot of thecarriers want.
So we've had a lot of tractionwith ACT chargers because
they've helped us with putting alot of effort and a lot of
resources towards buildingsomething that is actually
(11:04):
applicable to the ground supportequipment space, as to where
their primary focus in the pastwas in material handling.
So now that we've got productsthat this industry wants and
needs, we've been gaining a lotmore traction selling ACT
chargers.
Todd Allen (11:20):
Gotcha.
And we also sell other brands,Enercys being one of them, where
it's a more conventionalcharger, still a smart charger.
They also offer variouschargers for different
applications.
So we continue to sell multiplebrands based on the
application.
Matt Weitzel (11:37):
So what do you think about gate charging?
Todd Allen (11:40):
We understand the need for gate charging because
there's an infrastructure issue.
And so the gates have power.
But with with everything, whenwe're trying to use workaround
solutions for the lack ofinfrastructure, you know, it's
great because it's a solution.
It's not the best or endsolution, but it is a good
(12:01):
solution when there isn'tanything else.
It's just, you know, you'rerelying on uh an aircraft and
not being there, uh ample powerspace.
So there there are some issuesthat have to be overcome.
And I think that's why youdon't see every airport relying
on it, but it is an absolutelygreat option when you don't have
(12:22):
another one.
Matt Weitzel (12:23):
Yeah, for sure.
And is that something you alloffer?
Todd Allen (12:26):
Is to sure we we offer a gate power sharing
device as well as we havechargers that operate directly
off of 200 volt, 400 hertzpower.
So we don't need to do any sortof special conversion.
We're kind of ready to go.
In fact, our our mobile cartmaybe we'll have time to talk
(12:49):
about that.
But one of the power suppliesthat you can use to charge the
battery that's on board is youknow, gate power, 400 hertz gate
power.
Matt Weitzel (13:00):
Yeah, I mean let's let's dive right in.
So you you have a you have amobile charging solution?
We do.
Devin Sinclair (13:06):
We call it the the quanticart.
We've got several names for it.
The name that you will see onthe side of the piece of
equipment is the quanticart, butthe uh the uncoined name is the
juice box.
Oh, I like the juice box.
The juice box, yeah.
Matt Weitzel (13:21):
The quanticart sounds like something out of a
Marvel movie, and the juice boxsounds like something out of my
lunch in elementary school.
Devin Sinclair (13:28):
So yes, exactly.
It's a little more attractive,right?
Tastes a little bit better.
But no, our our our quanticartis it's a very customizable
piece of equipment that can beused in several different
applications.
We were actually showcasing oneat the GSE Expo, and we got a
lot more traction than weanticipated getting on it, and
(13:51):
now we are picking and choosingthe customers that we want to
you know enter this new chapterof our business with.
So, Todd, I'll let you get alittle bit more into the specs
just because you can roll upyour tongue a little bit better
than I can.
That sounds exciting.
Matt Weitzel (14:08):
I know, dude, it's the best.
That's what that's what ourlisteners want.
Todd Allen (14:11):
Thanks, Stefan.
Well, I will say that it isjust like gate charging.
We're still talking aboutworkaround solutions.
We would much rather havechargers sitting there where
where tractors are and you canplug in.
But given that there isn'tchargers everywhere that are
easily available, it makes senseto have a device that you can
(14:35):
take out to the equipmentinstead of having the equipment
go have find a charger that mayor may not exist.
So the good thing about ourcart, one, is it's fully
electric, it has a battery onboard that supplies all the
power for charging.
And we can do a high voltagebattery or a low voltage
battery.
We can have uh 480 volt inputto 40 volt three phase or single
(14:59):
phase 400 hertz.
We could use an EV charger.
Whatever it is that you havewill be able to charge the
battery, we'll be able to evenbypass the battery and charge
and use that power to godirectly to the chargers with
you need two ports, you needfour ports.
The good thing about uh beingmobile is that it's small, you
(15:22):
can take it anywhere, and youcan daisy chain it.
We're basically using a baggagecard so that you can have one,
two, four, as many as you wantto take out to wherever you
need.
So it's the the flexibility interms of the power input, the
amount of power you need tocharge batteries, the ability to
(15:45):
be small enough and mobile totake it somewhere, and then the
outputs completely flexible interms of connectors, power,
current, and what we can charge.
We can charge a lead acid, wecan charge any chemistry, we can
do a identifier type chargingor BMS charging, which would be
our preference.
Devin Sinclair (16:06):
And being the uh sales and the director of sales
and marketing, I've got tothrow in too that as you saw at
the GSE expo, we can wrap itwith some pretty cool designs.
Matt Weitzel (16:16):
Oh, yeah, well, that's even more important.
That's the best part about it,right?
Devin Sinclair (16:19):
Although I don't think anybody's gonna want me
to design what their quant lookslike.
I'm just saying we can do it.
You can do it.
Matt Weitzel (16:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what does it look like if Iif I'm a customer and I'm
hearing this podcast and and I'minterested in that solution?
Where can I see one?
Are you all gonna have demos?
I know you're kind of pickingand choosing the customers
because of the the the feedbackthat you got at the GSE expo,
but what does that look like?
Todd Allen (16:42):
Yeah, the quantity of orders that we had to deny at
the show was quite it was hard,it's hard to say no to an
order.
Yeah, I know, right?
But we did we did agree to anorder.
First one will be at JFK.
Devin Sinclair (16:57):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
We have been asked to send oneto Honolulu, but we just don't
know if Honolulu is the bestspot for the first Guanic art.
Uh-huh.
Um, although I would love to gocheck on the Yeah, exactly.
Todd Allen (17:11):
Maybe you could stay for a couple months and
shortage of Valent Energyemployees who have volunteered
to be like a resident engineerin Honolulu.
But we had people in Europesaying that we were ready to buy
them right now.
We're like, hmm, let's put oneat JFK first.
Yeah.
Matt Weitzel (17:27):
Yeah.
Just make sure, yeah.
Get get it all field testedwhere where you can, and then I
guess this is kind of goes intosomething I wanted to talk about
is you know, what does yoursupport network look like at
Allen Energy?
Devin Sinclair (17:40):
Our suppliers offer a lot of support for us,
and our suppliers have dealernetworks across all of North
America.
So oftentimes we can lean ontheir support networks for
technical support or justgetting somebody out to an
airport.
Like I said, they've not onlyare they across North America,
but they've got locations rightaround the airports, which makes
(18:03):
that a lot more convenient.
Recently, as you know, demandhas shifted towards lithium,
we've found it very important tohire engineers and technicians
in-house that can also travelacross North America to assist
with the very little issues thatlithium has.
We've strategically locatedpeople across the United States.
(18:25):
All of us work from home,which, you know, pros and cons
to that.
But one of the pros is that weare strategically spread out
across the United States so thatif we do have to respond to a
service call, we can be there asefficiently as possible.
Okay.
Todd Allen (18:39):
And then Devin's personal service territory is
the state of California.
Yeah.
He has been doing real servicecalls on lithium batteries.
Very impressive.
Matt Weitzel (18:50):
Really?
Todd Allen (18:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I said.
Really?
Devin Sinclair (18:53):
Yeah, exactly.
I didn't know.
I am a firm believer that thebest way to learn something is
to get thrown in into the fire,get thrown into the deep end
because it's either sink orswim.
That's right.
Um, so I have purposely beenraising my hand when there is
something close to me that I cango put my attention on, not
because I want to get shocked bya battery and and file a
(19:17):
workers' comp claim.
And not because he has a newbaby at home.
Matt Weitzel (19:20):
It has nothing to do with any of those things.
Devin Sinclair (19:22):
Has nothing to be with nothing to do with me
wanting to be out of the house.
No, it really is because I amlearning 10 new things every
day.
And it is because I'm puttingmyself in these situations where
I'm I'm forced to learn.
Todd's gonna laugh at this, butthere's been situations where
I've gotten very frustrated,frustrated with myself because I
(19:43):
couldn't figure these issuesout when, you know, I probably
have no reason for for doingthat because it's not easy
stuff.
But, you know, I at the end ofthe day, the frustration turns
into me, you know, learning alot about the products that we
sell.
And it's been very helpfulhelpful for me getting the ball
rolling in this position.
Todd Allen (20:02):
I should I should add up the years of experience
in GSC we have, our technicalknowledge, including our our
service coordinators.
You could you could call any ofour or our sales coordinators,
any of our inside admin cananswer tech answer technical
questions because they've beendoing this for so long.
Matt Weitzel (20:22):
That's amazing.
That's good.
Yeah, I mean, you've been inbusiness since 2000.
So I mean, that that makes alot of sense.
And you keep a good crew aroundand they're able to help out.
And then what how does how doestelematics kind of work in
inside the batteries?
Does that help out with uhservice and support as well?
Is that something that youoffer?
Todd Allen (20:41):
Yeah, so frequently, because all of our all of our
equipment comes with telematics.
So so many times there'ssomething that is not working.
And it may or be it may besomething significant, but no
mostly it's very insignificant,just requires a switch, a
(21:02):
program change, firmware update,something, and we can go online
through the cloud, pull up thatpiece of equipment, identify
what the issue is, and possiblyjust fix it right there before
we have to then fly to adestination and take a lot of
time with equipment being out ofservice.
(21:24):
So that has been extremelyhelpful.
Our devices interface with someof the popular telematic
systems, and then we have youknow our own user interfaces for
different products.
Devin Sinclair (21:38):
Yeah, and believe it or not, a lot of the
times there's an issue with abattery.
All we have to do is tell thecustomer to go plug it into a
charger so we can tell remotelythat the battery is at a low
state of charge, and all theyreally need to do is go plug
that thing in.
But I understand it's very hardto plug a minute to a charger.
Matt Weitzel (21:59):
Well, it's it's all because of infrastructure.
If the infrastructure wasthere, they wouldn't have as
many problems.
Todd Allen (22:04):
Well, I think I could go by any major airport
and I would find completelydischarged batteries in a
tractor sitting right next to acharger unplugged.
Matt Weitzel (22:18):
Yeah.
I'd say that's probably thecase.
Yeah.
So what what does that looklike as far as so you know, with
lithium batteries, I guess youshould never let them get below
20%, and I guess they're optimalup to 80%.
Is that is that true?
So kind of talk to me aboutthat.
You you've been in the businessfor a long time, so you're a
(22:38):
good person to ask.
Todd Allen (22:39):
Yeah, so on a on a lead-acid battery, the maximum
depth of discharge would be 80%or state minimum state of charge
20%.
And all of the existingcontrollers have an algorithm to
prevent batteries from beingdischarged past that.
They don't work.
That's why we have deadbatteries.
(23:01):
Lithium with the BMS, itprotects the battery it protects
the battery.
So the battery protects itselfagainst an over-discharge, an
overcharge.
We we have a lot of marginbuilt in between what we call
zero and what we call 100.
So we will allow the battery togo down close to zero and all
the way to 100, even thoughthere's a lot of space, you
(23:22):
know, real space on either side.
If you want to maximize thelife of the battery, yeah,
you're operating in that thatmiddle state of charge, 20 to
80, would be a good target.
Matt Weitzel (23:33):
All right.
And then I just thought ofthis, and so I'm gonna ask you.
So we we I think I I mentionedearlier that you know, with this
big T6 project going on, so weannounced it on LinkedIn.
And we had a person on LinkedIncomment, well, it'll be
interesting to see how all thiselectric equipment holds up in
the cold.
(23:54):
So something of that nature.
So can you talk to thatquestion?
Like how how will all thiselectric equipment that we have,
you know, hold up in the cold?
And then do your batteries havesome kind of system where they
will warm themselves up to ifthey get too cold, all that kind
of stuff.
So every battery we ship hasheaters built in.
Todd Allen (24:16):
Okay.
Not just a wrap around thebattery, they're internal to the
batteries, so all the cellsmaintain a common temperature.
Even on the juice box, weliterally have a essentially
like a radiator style coolingand heating system so that this
the cells are always at the sametemperature that maximizes life
(24:37):
and performance.
But in the cold, if the batteryis not being used and it starts
to have a lower state, a lowertemperature, the heaters kick
on.
Here's where the problem comesin.
The heaters come on and they'llstay on and they consume power.
And if you are not using thebattery long for a long period
(24:57):
of time, eventually, and itwe're talking about days, uh,
the battery will discharge downand it and will eventually turn
off.
Then the temperature continuesto drop, then you have a dead
battery that's cold, and lithiumhas a unique downside in terms
of charging.
(25:18):
You cannot charge a lithiumbattery below freezing.
So if you have a a battery thatis below 32 degrees Fahrenheit
and it's uh it's dead, then youhave to heat that battery back
up one way or the other.
Matt Weitzel (25:36):
So maybe tow it into a place that's covered and
and bring up the temperaturenaturally put it into a
microwave.
Todd Allen (25:43):
And I've seen people use heaters, external heaters,
to literally outside blowblowing hot air onto batteries.
That tends to work.
We also have the technologywhere you plug into the charger
and the BMS says, give me just alittle bit of power, and that's
(26:03):
just enough to turn the heaterson, and then when the battery
gets warm, then we'll we'll askfor more power and start
charging the battery.
That requires the charger tohave the right protocol and and
have the right firmware, butthat technology is there.
Again, if you're in the coldand you have lithium batteries,
(26:26):
just plug them into thechargers.
If they're at a decent state ofcharge, they will always be on,
they'll always be hot, they'llalways be ready to go.
It's plugging into the chargerwould be the secret to
everything.
Matt Weitzel (26:39):
Thank you for answering that question.
So it just reminds me though,with the with the ACT chargers,
that's who you're using, right?
Do they also have telematics onthem because you said the
firmware has to be updated, allthat kind of stuff?
Can that be remotely done toupdate the chargers that you all
have out in operation?
Devin Sinclair (26:55):
Yes, it can.
ACT has proprietary softwarecalled ActView, which is
something that can be purchasedwith the chargers.
And that is essentially theirtelemetry that you can access
remotely.
Todd Allen (27:06):
And it's actually the best telemetry I've seen on
any charging system.
You can one, you'll get GPS soyou know exactly where it is,
but also you know, you can lookat historical data, you can see
every piece of information aboutthat charger when the last time
something got plugged in, whatgot plugged in.
(27:28):
What kind of charge happened?
If it didn't charge, what wasthe fault?
It'll even give you a liveversion of what the customer is
seeing on the screen of thecharger.
So you're looking at that onyour computer as he's looking at
it, they're live on site, andyou're looking at the same
thing.
It's very effective in terms ofmaintaining uptime on the
(27:51):
equipment.
Matt Weitzel (27:52):
What kind of advancements do you see
happening with batteries?
I know that you know peopletalk about sodium.
Is that is that right?
Sodium batteries.
What are you all looking at asfar as like future state?
I know obviously we we'vegotten to the point where, you
know, like you said, lithium isbeing used.
What's kind of next out therethat people are talking about?
Devin Sinclair (28:13):
This goes back to our industry specifically, is
is fearful of change.
And I think that lithium isstill such a new idea for the
GSE space that it's really hardto see that there is going to be
another change on the on thehorizon or in the near future.
But you know, technology seemsto change and be put out into
(28:37):
the market more rapidly as timegoes on.
So I have heard myself a lotabout sodium batteries.
I've heard that our militaryactually is is using a handful
of them in differentapplications.
So I think the test cases arestarting to starting to pop up,
and you know, that could be adirection that that it does go
in.
Todd Allen (28:57):
Yeah, we're constantly looking at whatever
might be a viable technology forGSC.
Sodium does seem to be what'snext, although it's not it's not
commercial be commerciallyviable right now.
But it will be eventually, Ithink, if we're gonna just take
our best guess.
Matt Weitzel (29:15):
Is it difficult like if I have a lead acid
tractor to then convert that toa lithium because of the weight
and things like that of thattractor?
There's have to be additionalengineering done.
Devin Sinclair (29:26):
I wouldn't say not necessarily additional
engineering, but yes, you'reright in the terms of the
counterweight reduction that youhave when you go into a lithium
battery because lithiumbatteries are a lot more
lightweight than the old stylelead acid batteries.
So, you know, when we are doingconversions from lead acid to
(29:47):
lithium, one of the things thatwe do have to do is drop a
counterweight, a piece of steel,into the tractor to get some of
that weight back.
But as far as the installationprocess, it's not a hard it's
pretty straightforward.
Todd Allen (30:00):
pretty straightforward yeah nice and
and if the if the tractor isolder and the and the controller
is not ready to take a cansignal we can still adjust uh
the parameters such that it'sstill it's still keeping the
battery from being overdischarged so the operator still
(30:21):
sees a low state of chargestill gets the alert still goes
into creep mode and theneventually would shut off and
then worst case it goes so longthat the battery will shut off
to protect itself.
Matt Weitzel (30:33):
Yeah I hadn't thought about the controller
side that's something that youall can help out with as well.
Todd Allen (30:37):
Yeah we typically if we were to do a retrofit it
from lead to lithium we'resupplying steel and then we're
supplying new parameters for thecontroller if the controller's
old if it's if it's new and itcan take a you know the can
signal which really it's onlylooking for state of charge
minimally we can offer as muchinformation as the tractor wants
(31:00):
but we're just giving it stateof charge so that it then can
have a correct uh setting on themeter and and then the operator
knows when to plug it in.
Devin Sinclair (31:09):
Yeah and to your point that is one thing on the
long list of things that we helpall of our customers with and
Allen Energy has seen a lot ofthe the issues and has had to
come up with a lot of solutionsfor for situations just like
that.
And you know that's why our ourcustomers call us because we've
(31:32):
got decades now of experiencejust finding solutions for
compatibility and transitioninto into new technology and
yeah we're we're a a resourcethat people can can rely on.
Todd Allen (31:45):
Yeah so with new technology as you're mentioning
what about high voltage chargingTodd what do you think about
what do you think about that Iknow that there's some some push
in the industry to get that isthat something that you see as a
is a viable thing and then howhow much further in the future
are we thinking that's going tobe well yeah I I feel like the
(32:06):
question is not if but whenyou've seen some OEMs go 100%
high voltage and have to comeback to low voltage and you've
seen uh some high voltagecompanies just really not
succeed because we are living inan 80 volt world every charger
(32:26):
installation is low voltage andto convert that to high voltage
is a long term process.
It's not just money it's it's alot of of work and coordination
and you've got lots ofdifferent companies out there
with different technologies andwe still haven't gotten the
integration standardized soeverybody's doing something a
(32:50):
little bit different and makesit it makes it challenging.
So I am one of those people whobelieves we're gonna go to high
voltage eventually.
Not next year it can't happen.
It's not possible but fiveyears like who knows who knows
but it's gonna happen.
And you see the technology onroad vehicle side really
(33:10):
starting to drive the technologyinto GSE.
I mean there was I can'tremember how many presentations
I gave about the positive plateand a lead acid battery and like
who who cares about that butnow we have like a lot of really
good high technology things totalk about.
And it gets complicated butit's it's it's exciting for our
(33:33):
industry to really be moving ina high tech direction and I
think is the bottom line yeswe're we're gonna go to high
voltage.
Is material handling alreadythere or no they're still in a
low voltage world too althoughthe high voltage offers so many
advantages in terms of densityperformance that and and the
(33:55):
integration like if you own anelectric car you might need an
adapter but you're gonna be ableto plug into any EV charger
that you find.
And it would be great if GSEcould get to that point where
any battery could plug into anycharger and work.
Devin Sinclair (34:13):
Yeah at this recent GSE expo I think it was a
it was a relevant conversationthat was happening often I I
know we had a couple of the OEMscome up to our booth asking how
we could integrate with highvoltage and outside of the GSE
expo we're also talking toairports that are starting to
(34:34):
ask questions about high voltagecharging.
Todd Allen (34:36):
So it's a a conversation that is you can
tell it's starting to happenmore and more so I am really not
trying to push the the juicebox because we have limited
production.
However the standardconfiguration has an EV charger
on it.
So we know we know that highvoltage EV charging is is
(34:59):
already here and it's just goingto continue to grow.
And we've geared the product upin anticipation that hey if the
industry does shift we've got asolution that's ready to go
right and if you want actuallywe have a customer who wanted
exclusively this cart for highvoltage charging they bought
this might have been a story forthe end of the conversation but
(35:19):
they bought something like 150electric high voltage EVs and no
chargers.
Wow and they're like we need wewe need about uh 50 of these
next month and I'm like yeahokay yeah talk about no problem
yeah exactly where where is thatbeing like manufactured put
(35:41):
together assembled whatever yeahright now it's in Dallas but at
the at the show we had about 10different people come up and
offer to be our our manufacturerfor that oh okay so we are
evaluating we're we can stillbuild them in small quantities
and we do that in Dallas butwe're evaluating like a high
production real qualitymanufacturer that can handle
(36:05):
high volume.
Matt Weitzel (36:06):
With the name like juice box that thing's just
gonna fly off the shelves man Imean this wouldn't want a juice
box.
They that's what I meaneverybody wants a juice box.
Todd Allen (36:15):
That's some good marketing over there with the
wraps with the wrap Devin yeahhe already brought the wrap all
right so kind of last big topichere is autonomous.
Devin Sinclair (36:29):
So what do you think about our industry going
to autonomous vehicles and howdoes Allen energy if at all fit
into that I think it's stillit's still got a ways to go but
another you know it was anothertopic that was thrown around a
lot at the GSE expo and a lot ofthe OEMs did have their
(36:49):
concepts showcased and we had aconversation with somebody last
night about how their theircompany is you know really
starting to get into this worldof technology and they're really
focusing on entering thatmarket so that they can give
back to their shareholders whatthey're looking for.
And I think that is enteringthis new stage of of autonomous
(37:12):
vehicles.
Again like I have said a coupletimes the industry is fearful
of change and that is probablythe biggest change that that we
will ever see just pulling laboroff of the airport and putting
vehicles that can do the workfor us.
So I I think there's somepolitics that's probably going
to slow it down as well.
But to my point the technologyis there and and people are
(37:36):
investing heavily in it and I dothink that it is the thing of
the future.
Todd Allen (37:41):
And well as far as Allen Energy's part in that we
offer I think the one componentthat's missing so far in
autonomous vehicles is you stillneed a person to plug it in.
So we offer a wireless chargerso you have an autonomous
vehicle you give it a locationto go back and charge and it
(38:03):
pulls up as soon as it getsclose enough and now we have the
technology it doesn't have tobe perfect.
You can get within six inchesor so and it will automatically
sense the vehicle make sure thatit's safe and it'll start
charging and it's all doneautomatically the there's
communication to identify thethe battery and we can charge
(38:25):
any chemistry.
Matt Weitzel (38:26):
That's amazing so it's like your iPhone right you
just like kind of put it on thatthing and it just starts
charging.
Devin Sinclair (38:32):
But you don't even put it on that thing right
puts itself on that thing.
Yeah.
Because it'd be a little bitscary if you had GSE operators
pulling up to wireless chargersbecause one they're expensive
pieces of equipment and and youcan't protect them with bollards
and fences you have to getclose.
You've got to get you knowwithin within a very short
(38:52):
distance for for the power toactually exchange.
Matt Weitzel (38:56):
But that makes a lot of sense for you all to get
involved in that because likeyou said if we're trying to cut
out operators right I meanthat's kind of that's that's a
big deal.
That's a big a big piece of itand you know with operators.
Well they don't always plug itin.
Todd Allen (39:10):
As I've always I keep saying it over and over
again plugging in your batteryto a charger seems like such an
obvious thing.
My daughter doesn't know how todo it so I don't know why I
expect rampers to do it.
I think I think like apushback's going back to the
same place.
Yeah it just went back to thesame place and got charged every
(39:30):
time it'd be perfect.
Devin Sinclair (39:32):
The technology also it does exist I I can't
remember what airport it is butat the airport electrification
conference on the east coast youknow back what what was that?
Matt Weitzel (39:43):
Yeah I think that's where I met you.
Devin Sinclair (39:44):
Yeah like officially yeah somebody was
talking about the wirelesscharging application that they
were using for the buses thatthey use to move passengers
around the airport.
So it's there it's out on theairport it just hasn't really
been brought into into GSE yetand I think the one thing that
is holding it back is is it safeand is it going to be cost
(40:08):
effective if we are running tugsinto wireless chargers.
Matt Weitzel (40:12):
Yeah yeah but I mean like I like you said I mean
autonomous is definitely comingjust like high voltage right
like we can't stop it it'scoming I think that high voltage
may beat autonomous but we'llsee it it'll be a race to the to
the long finish I think on thatone.
Devin Sinclair (40:26):
But well you got to put sodium batteries in the
race too.
Matt Weitzel (40:30):
Well uh yeah well I think I think that's gonna
probably be the last in thatrace but that's just yeah maybe
not but all right so now we'reon to the the fun part of the
podcast unless wait a minutehold on do we have anything else
that I haven't asked you aboutor we haven't covered I want to
make sure that you all geteverything out that you want to
talk about I I'd say we did havea product that got a lot of
attention at the show we have abattery identifier that's been
(40:55):
you know part of the integrationand GSE's always been a
challenge.
Todd Allen (40:59):
So we do have an identifier you can put on your
battery that'll allow it tocharge on multiple different
brands of chargers.
Devin Sinclair (41:06):
Oh that that'll be nice solves a lot of problems
for a lot of people thatthing'll be flying off the
shelves like the juice box whathave we named that well that one
actually does have a namethat's very similar and one of
the customers actually gave itto us and we've been running
with it but we call it the Toddbox.
Oh the Tod box yeah I like itnow we've got the juice box and
(41:27):
the Todd box.
Matt Weitzel (41:28):
Okay so the Todd box it'll make it so that way
you know no matter what thecharger is it can talk to that
battery and charge it.
Exactly that cuts out a lot ofthem the headaches.
Todd Allen (41:38):
And and I think I think we want to work with the
industry to try to standardizeprotocols pinouts contactors uh
connectors just let's you knowonce and for all like I think we
can work together I think thatwould be a great value to the
industry.
So we're gonna we're gonna as acompany we'll be pushing that.
Yep and we're currently workingon projects that require
(42:02):
universal identifier so and it'snot easy it's not easy to talk
to some of these chargers wehave our competitors battery
companies approaching ussometimes directly sometimes
indirectly trying to buy thethat identifier because they
can't charge on every chargerthey don't know how and but if
they buy that identifier theycan so it's been interesting
(42:26):
that's an amazing piece oftechnology I I know just coming
from the manufacturing side whenwhen a customer would try to be
explain to me what charger theyhave and I got to make sure
that it matches the batterywe're giving them and all that
kind of stuff.
Matt Weitzel (42:38):
I mean it's always always a task right so so I
think that's a I mean definitelysomething the industry needed
that's that's an amazing thingyou got there.
Devin Sinclair (42:46):
It's been helpful to a lot of people and I
think that there's still a lotof people that don't even know
that it it exists.
Well they will now yeah yeahabsolutely here we here we are
yeah but no I mean we had we hadpeople walk up to us at the GSE
expo not knowing that we hadthat device presenting the
issues that they were having andhere here we are waving our
(43:08):
universal identifier aroundsaying it really was just
sitting on the desk we had wehad people from other
manufacturers who wereexhibiting heard a story of a
problem and said you know Ithink I have an answer for you
and they'd walk them over to ourbooth and say I think this
might help you.
(43:28):
This is what you need yeah theTodd's out of the box now it's
out there you know yeah and justfor the record one of those
projects is one of one of thethings that I have thrown myself
into into the fire with tryingto implement onto equipment and
how that's not going so well forDevin right now but he's gonna
(43:51):
he's he's not gonna give up he'sgonna figure it out I had a
failure of a day but you knowwhat if you have a bad day you
wake up the next day and youjust have a better one.
You go again right you getlooking forward to going back
home so that I can just continuetrying to I got a call from one
of our engineers yesterday.
Todd Devin called me 15 timestoday I actually I went back and
(44:16):
counted how many times I calledher on Monday because I didn't
believe that it was 15 and itwas actually only nine so I've
got a little talking to Rebeccaokay yeah she exaggerated a
little bit just like you do.
Matt Weitzel (44:27):
We've got one thing in common.
Exactly there you go all rightso Devin you've been in the
industry long enough to to haveprobably a decent GSE story so
why don't we get your GSE storyout there to the community.
Oh man do you want a PG versionor do you want a rated R
version we're gonna go PG today.
Okay yeah we're gonna go LionKing.
Devin Sinclair (44:46):
Lion King okay I I have a really cool story and
it was a project that I I workedon at LAX years ago.
It was just a reallyfascinating thing for me to see
but it was the summit ofAmerica's event that the
government was holding well youknow our the the U.S.
was holding it somewhere in LAcouldn't tell you where it
didn't really matter to me butwe had presidents and officials
(45:09):
from all over the world you knowleaders of countries flying in
and military aircrafts andpresidential aircrafts air force
one flew in and and was rightin front of me but I was in a
role where I was leasingequipment and we had leased tons
of equipment to handle all ofthese all of these aircrafts
that were were coming in withwith presidents from all over
(45:31):
the world and I went out thereto to watch the whole thing why
not you know our equipment wasout there I had a reason to be
at the airport so I you know Ihelped facilitate the whole
thing and and for a whole day Ijust watched presidents roll in
on their on their very luxuriousjets and you know I watched C
17s come in with more equipmentand uh it's one of those moments
(45:54):
where you're like I never wouldhave guessed this is what I
would be doing today.
You know I never thought Iwould be here.
Yeah um but it was really cooland long story short the the
coolest part of it was I got tosee Air Force One come in you
know as close as I could get toit.
They only let you get within acertain certain range of it.
But I got to watch thepresident come off the airplane
(46:15):
and I got to look around me andsee all the snipers on on the
top of the roofs just protectinghim as he walked across the
airport and got into his armoredarmored black car and and drove
away but the whole experienceas a whole was something that
has been very memorable to mebecause I I don't you know
that's a once in a lifetimething for sure I think yeah but
(46:36):
it was it was cool and I I gotto roam the airport and I'm
walking under underneath thewings of yeah it's scary that
they let me out.
Yeah that's what I mean yeahexactly but no I got to walk
under the wing of you know thepresident of Peru's airplane I I
was a big fan of him yeah yeahI I had we we had Peruvian food
last night so I really likeexactly that's where you went
(46:57):
there yeah yeah exactly no I Ialso got a tour of the president
of Brazil's aircraft which wasyou know not as nice as Air
Force One probably but it was ait was a pretty cool start I'm
sorry to our Brazilian listenersjust apologize right now.
Yeah yeah I didn't leave anypresence inside uh inside of the
restroom there but but no itwas it was a very memorable
(47:20):
experience that is cool I Ialways choose that story because
it's family friendly and uhyeah it's a rare GSE story where
you actually get to talk aboutthe president so yeah definitely
that's impressive it's a storythat doesn't get anybody in
trouble so we'll stay away fromthe I like that I love those
stories.
Matt Weitzel (47:36):
Todd do we have any stories that isn't going to
get anybody in trouble?
Todd Allen (47:39):
I mean you kind of already kind of told your story
a little bit I mean you had sucha such a good fascinating
beginning of your career but youknow sometimes in GSE it's you
think nothing can surprise youand then you get a call and
you're like wow can't believethat happened a couple I mean I
can remember early on this isgoing back 20 25 years ago new
(48:01):
piece of electric equipment noone knew what it was battery
gauge the fuel gauge said it wasit was low and the guy went and
he filled the battery up withgasoline no joke yeah he won the
story for the day I'm sorrythat that beats your president
whatever you said.
I had a we had a guy thebattery wasn't charging because
(48:24):
of an integration issue so hetook a 400 amp hour battery
plugged it into a dumb chargerovernight put 2000 amp hours
into it and literally melted ifthey came in the next morning it
was melted it was a meltedthat's amazing lead and plastic.
Wow just one more I'm gonnatell one more just this is not
(48:46):
exciting okay but it's a it's asafety issue I got a call from a
GSE department saying that somethat this station is very
unhappy with your batteries andI'm like okay didn't even know
you had put batteries there sothey're like yeah for the last
four months every morning theyhave to go out and turn the
batteries on and I'm like whatlike what and they're like oh
(49:09):
yeah they turn off every nightand they're very unhappy they
think your batteries areterrible and I'm like we
actually sent Rebecca out and uhturns out that uh the batteries
were faulting at night and uhthey were just resetting them
but they had taken theidentifier off of random not
just anything consistent butrandom lead acid batteries put
(49:33):
it on a lithium battery andthat's a dangerous thing and
over the course of every morningfor four months no one said why
are these batteries faultingyeah and instead of maybe
calling somebody or someanything they just kept turning
(49:54):
them back on.
And lithium as excited as weare for that technology to come
into the industry it's still apretty volatile chemistry no
matter what chemistry you'retalking about.
So safety safety's going to beas we the as we start having new
technology not just batteriesbut new technology safety is
going to be a huge issue.
Devin Sinclair (50:14):
Sorry that was the probably the most boring no
I no I end of the end of theconversation but I think I mean
it it had a very good point toit that you know as we do move
forward we've got to be veryfocused on on the safety aspect
of of what we are doing becauseto your point as well you can
just slap a device on top of abattery that takes over
(50:37):
completely takes over control ofwhat is going on when you were
charging it.
And that's a very scary thing.
So you know ways that we caneliminate having things oh yeah
you said four.
Todd Allen (50:50):
Let's go four.
No well keep going we've gotanother hour anyway so you said
the record was 90 minutes.
Yeah exactly yeah I don't evenknow how long it's been it was
uh it was like a weekend eveningand I'm getting texts from
someone I don't know he'stelling me I don't know anything
about batteries or electricvehicles but I got to get this
back in service trying to helphim and I'm like hey let's let's
(51:14):
just back away like you this isdangerous.
And he's like and then a halfhour later he's like I was able
to break open the lock on thecover of the battery and I'm I
just got shocked and there was aloud noise and smoke is coming
and fortunately he didn't hurthimself that oh my god or the
battery he he blew a contactorand a controller but we really
(51:38):
do have to be careful.
Matt Weitzel (51:39):
You got to be careful yeah we we we
interviewed or I mean Iinterviewed two guys from
TechShron one had just retiredand he was like the head of
service and the other guy hadbeen working on GSE for the last
35 years.
I think it's 35 38 somethingcrazy number and he's like you
know it used to be people wouldcall me and I could walk them
you know through the stuff rightover the phone.
(52:00):
He goes now you know I'm likeis it high voltage?
It's like the first thing I askbecause if it's high voltage
I'm not walking you through thatI have to come and and do that
because it is so dangerous tomake sure that these people
aren't you know you can't messwith high voltage if you don't
know what you're doing.
Right.
So I think again the safety ofof making sure that you're
you're good you're not justbreaking into batteries and just
(52:22):
doing whatever you want rightso so anyway so no it's good
stories.
Devin you look like you havesomething to say.
Devin Sinclair (52:28):
No I I was just gonna start blurting out my
rated R story anyways but we'regonna oh no we're gonna we're
gonna leave that one on though Iwill definitely get somebody in
trouble.
Matt Weitzel (52:37):
If I kept all my stories very anonymous you did
you did yeah exactly well no I Iappreciate you guys coming down
today to to Orlando and meetingwith me.
It's been great learning aboutAllen Energy obviously I've I've
I've known Devin for a littlebit I've known you for a little
bit longer I think and and I'veheard good things about Allen
Energy so I wanted to have youguys on the podcast and I think
(52:57):
we learned a lot today and andgot to learn about your products
and about how you're justyou're so busy you don't even
know what to do as far asmanufacturing these things.
So so we'll have thesemanufacturers you know they're
gonna listen to this they'regonna reach out to you and
they're gonna ask if they canbuild it.
So maybe you'll have a couplemore people reach out to you.
Devin Sinclair (53:13):
Yeah and we want to thank you and Fort Brand for
having us this has been anawesome experience for both of
us like we had said earlier inthe conversation I can finally
check this off off my list.
That's right.
You know my my mom called meyesterday and she said well why
are you traveling this time andI said mom I'm actually going to
go be on a a GSE podcast andshe said is it live?
(53:33):
Can I watch it while you'redoing it and I said mom no
that's probably not a good idea.
Matt Weitzel (53:38):
One day we're gonna do a live one we have not
done a live GSE podcast yet sobut we got to figure out that
technology and we'll do it.
Todd Allen (53:46):
Good I probably we need to we need to meet up at a
at a GHI or expo or somethingthat would be a perfect perfect
place oh yeah that then thatthat is the last thing that
we'll talk about.
Matt Weitzel (53:57):
So what shows are you attending coming up either
the end of the year or beginningof next?
Yeah.
Devin Sinclair (54:04):
Next week actually we've got the NBAA
conference in Las Vegas and Ican't say I have ever been to
that conference before.
I think that there will Are yougoing to walk it or exhibit?
We're we're we're just walkingit okay it's just myself and and
Jesse.
I figured it was a good time togo check it out.
I've got some customers in theFBO space that they've they've
(54:27):
got electric equipment at everysingle one of their locations
across the United States andthey've always got questions
about charging capabilities andhow they can advance their
fleets and where they theyshould be spending their money
on on technical advancements.
So I figured that this wouldprobably be a good year for us
to go poke around and and seewhat kind of conversations that
(54:48):
we have.
And it's not that I want to bein Vegas again.
We were just having a wild timefor the GSE expo and I don't
know if my body can handle itagain.
Matt Weitzel (54:57):
So uh we've this will be a little toned down
version of that I guess so Ithink it's going to wild time
yeah I haven't seen your expensereport yet so we got we got
MBAA and then I'm guessing youall will be at GHI America's in
Panama next year.
Yeah is that a good guess?
Devin Sinclair (55:13):
Yep we will definitely be in Panama we'll
also be in Amsterdam oh you'regoing to you're going to the GHI
annual conference in Amsterdamand then you've got you've got
one in LA some coming up the theWest Coast electrification
conference is coming up as wellI'll be attending that listening
to to everybody speak.
I won't be on a panel myselfwell that's a miss.
(55:36):
Yeah you know what I mean I'llhave to contact somebody about
that but yeah that's okay.
You know the thing about beingon a panel is they can't edit
sections of it out.
Yeah exactly they can't stopyou from some from saying the
right he did ask if he could beon a panel and they said we
heard they said why don't youwarm up with the GSE podcast
there we go we'll see how thatgoes.
Matt Weitzel (55:56):
Yeah exactly so all right well thank you all so
much for for coming down Iappreciate it.
This has been Todd and Matt andDevin for the GSE podcast
thanks a lot guys thank youthank you for tuning in to this
episode of the GSE podcast wehope you found it informative
and engaging.
(56:17):
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Your feedback not onlyencourages us but also helps
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Keep an eye out for moreepisodes as we continue to
(56:37):
explore the dynamic world ofground operations, bring you the
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Thank you for listening to theGSD Podcast.
Until we meet again staygrounded and keep pushing
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This episode of the GSE Podcast is brought to
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(00:21):
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This is Christian Eitner.
This is Kyle Brunner.
This is Calder War.
This is Ronan Malahan, and youare listening to the GSE
podcast.
All right.
(01:04):
Well, welcome to the GSEPodcast.
I'm Matt Weitzel, and today Iam joined by Allen Energy.
So I have Todd Allen and DevinSinclair.
And they are both joining me atthe Orlando office today, the
new, the new podcast studio thatI'm setting up that's not quite
there yet, but we're we atleast have a room, right?
(01:26):
And that's the most that's thethat's the start of a podcast
studio.
So we're gonna get there, andtoday we're we're videoing this
one.
So hopefully that works out.
So, Todd, how's it going?
Now you live in Orlando, right?
Todd Allen (01:37):
Or somewhere near I live I live southwest Orlando in
Windermere, about half hourfrom here, and been living here
for about 25 years.
Oh wow.
So what brought you to theOrlando area?
It was to get into the batterybusiness.
Oh, really?
I was I was graduating frombusiness school, and there was a
little company owned by ownedby a couple guys in Missouri who
(02:03):
wanted to sell it, and it wastwo field techs that went around
and fixed battery, you know,industrial batteries and
chargers for forklifts.
Oh and I wouldn't say that wasmy start if we want to go really
far back.
When I was in undergrad, we Ihad a job at a battery company
welding cables and assetadjustments and load tests.
(02:24):
And I I worked for uh alsoworked for a company that did
consulting for internationalbattery factories.
So I got a start a long timeago.
Matt Weitzel (02:33):
So you've been in the battery industry for how
many years then?
Well, or at least let's not golet's not let's not put a number
to it.
Todd Allen (02:41):
So so a long time since 25 years in Orlando.
Okay.
Uh in the battery business,starting out doing material
handling, forklifts.
Okay.
And then I'd say about 20 yearsin GSE.
Matt Weitzel (02:54):
Wow.
Nice.
Okay.
And then uh how did AllenEnergy uh get its start?
So when did you actually foundit?
Todd Allen (03:02):
I was founded in in 2000 when I moved to Orlando.
Matt Weitzel (03:07):
Okay.
Todd Allen (03:07):
I end it eventually sold that business, the material
handling business, just tofocus on GSE.
And in the beginning it was meand one assistant, and then it's
since grown from there.
Matt Weitzel (03:22):
So why GSE?
Like what made you move awayfrom material handling and and
come to our beautiful industryof GSE?
Todd Allen (03:31):
So while we were doing material handling, we had
dabbled into GSE from the verybeginning.
I mean, we when when we werethe industry was starting to
electrify, we were very much apart of that, starting with
American Airlines at the timeContinental.
And we became, you know, theindustry experts at the time.
(03:54):
Now there's a lot more players,but that was just like a side
business kind of that we gotpulled into out of a very
strange series of relationships,and then it became part of our
business.
And when I sold the materialhandling part, it was an easy
transition into GSE.
Matt Weitzel (04:12):
Yeah, for sure.
And then Devin, how did you getyour start in GSE?
I have no idea.
No, we all want to know.
Everybody's been asking me, andI'm like, dude, I don't worry,
I'm gonna ask him on thepodcast.
Devin Sinclair (04:25):
I, as you know, I have a I have a leasing
background.
Uh yes.
And I actually did not start inground support equipment.
I started with a company calledBalboa Capital.
We leased, you name it, and Ileased farm tractors to farmers
and dental chairs to dentists.
But from there I found some acommon background with the
current ownership of Mercury,and we kicked it off the the day
(04:48):
we met.
I mean, I just ended up workingfor his team.
Didn't know if I was ever gonnalike this industry.
I didn't even know what I wasgoing to sell.
I thought I was going to selljet bridges.
Oh, yeah, exactly.
Because that's what you know,right?
That's all I really knew.
I didn't understand that therewas a whole bunch of equipment
crawling around the airportunderneath the wing of the
aircraft.
But no, I I fell in love withit, and you know, I'm still
still here today.
Like I always say, once you go,once you go to GSE, you can
(05:12):
never really leave.
Matt Weitzel (05:13):
That's very true.
That's and uh we talk aboutthat a lot on the podcast is
something that comes up on Iguess about every other podcast
is like people try to leave, butthey can't.
Todd Allen (05:21):
I'll add that when I sold the business and was gonna
work on GSE, that was gonna bea one or two year project.
Matt Weitzel (05:28):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
See, that's 20 years later.
Devin Sinclair (05:31):
20 years later, you're still here, you can't
leave.
No, I mean there's there'ssomething that there's something
that that that just draws youin.
And I I think the the key pieceof it is the people, right?
And the relationships that weall have, the tight little
network that we have.
And you know, one of myfavorite things is going to the
GSE expo, not so much to go graball the business that's out
(05:52):
there, it's just so that I cansee everybody because we've got
a great relationship.
I mean, you can edit this outif you want, but there was a
point in time where you and Iwere competitors, but uh, you
know, I still always looked atat your team as as friends, and
there's something that's veryvaluable to that, and I
appreciate it.
So yeah, like I said, here Iam, and I I don't think I don't
(06:14):
think I'm ever leaving.
Matt Weitzel (06:15):
That's good.
I I never leaving.
Yeah, that yeah, that's right.
Well, you know, there's thisrumor going around the industry.
I don't know if you've heard itor not, but the reason that
Devin left was because he knewhe wouldn't be able to make it
on the podcast unless he went toanother company.
So there's some truth to that.
There is there's a lot of truthto that.
I keep being told that, but butanyway, so uh but we're here to
talk today about somethingthat's very important, and I'm
(06:38):
so glad that you all you knowdecided to come on the podcast
because obviouslyelectrification is top of mind
right now.
A lot of people are obviouslytalking about it.
We recently were awarded, youknow, Fort Brand was awarded T6.
We're going in as almost allelectric, and then eventually it
will be all electric.
So I think that's if we'retaking a nod from that, that's
(07:00):
kind of the way the industry ismoving.
And you all supply batteriesand and chargers to the
industry.
Devin Sinclair (07:07):
Yeah, what what a coincidence.
Matt Weitzel (07:09):
Right.
I know.
And so anyway, so it's it'sreally I'm glad that you're
here.
And let's start, let's starttalking about what Allen Energy
does, what you bring to thetable.
What kind of batterychemistries are you using right
now?
Devin Sinclair (07:21):
Uh I'll start.
We do, you know, historically,Allen Energy has done a ton of
lead acid.
And as the industry has shiftedand product demand has shifted
to lithium, we've brought on anew supplier whose name is
Calibri.
I'm sure a lot of peoplelistening to this know who
Calibri is.
But Calibri offers an NMCchemistry battery, which is
(07:46):
nickel, magnesium, cobalt.
You might have to edit that outif I got that wrong, but I
think I got it right.
Maybe manganese, but it's allright.
Matt Weitzel (07:56):
Tomato tomato.
Okay, got it.
I think you nailed it, Devin.
I think I did.
Yeah, yeah, you really did.
I'm proud of him.
Devin Sinclair (08:02):
That's good.
But no, Todd, I'll let you addon to that.
Todd Allen (08:06):
Well, and we also can offer iron phosphate.
Even in our our mobile chargingcart, we use an NCA battery.
It's a Tesla battery.
So we are very open to all thechemistries.
They have you know some prosand cons, but we try to use
primarily the safest battery,and then chemistry would be you
(08:30):
know for particularapplications.
Matt Weitzel (08:32):
So there's still air, I mean, as much as people
push lithium, there's still alot of people using lead acid,
right?
I mean, that is that is still Ithink is that still the
preferred?
I mean, in in like the airlineindustry, especially with
airlines, are they using leadacid?
Todd Allen (08:48):
Well, overwhelmingly, the the fleet of
batteries is lead acid.
It's 90 plus percent.
But in terms of new purchases,it's still more lead acid
because you're just replacingit's it's really hard to start
integrating a lithium into alarge fleet of lead acid.
It takes time.
(09:09):
But I think we're approachingin a 50% kind of range of as the
larger carriers are convertingto lithium, we're crossing over
to where it's going to be morelithium than lead,
industry-wide, and then justindustrial battery-wise, lead
acid isn't going away.
In fact, all the forecasts showlead acid will just remain
(09:32):
rather constant, and the growthin battery business will be in
different chemistries.
Yeah.
Devin Sinclair (09:37):
I think it's fair to say that this industry
is a little bit afraid ofchange, but I think that there
are some key players and a lotof educated people that are
coming to the table with realdata about lithium now, and
people are gaining a betterunderstanding of it and trusting
that making the switch could bebeneficial to their operation.
(10:01):
So I would say it's probably avery slow transition, but we are
seeing it happen and we can seeit happen in our numbers.
Matt Weitzel (10:10):
Yeah.
And then with chargers, so youall offer chargers as well.
So what what kind of charge,like what kind of chargers are
you offering to the industry?
Devin Sinclair (10:20):
We offer ACT chargers, advanced charging
technologies.
ACT offers single port GSEcharger rated for outdoor use as
well as indoor chargers aswell.
They offer a range of optionsfor both the AC input as well as
the AC output.
Or sorry, is it DC output?
(10:42):
Yeah, I got that one wrongagain, too.
But they are also offering anoption now for dual port
chargers, which is a very bigmove for them in this industry
because that's what a lot of thecarriers want.
So we've had a lot of tractionwith ACT chargers because
they've helped us with putting alot of effort and a lot of
resources towards buildingsomething that is actually
(11:04):
applicable to the ground supportequipment space, as to where
their primary focus in the pastwas in material handling.
So now that we've got productsthat this industry wants and
needs, we've been gaining a lotmore traction selling ACT
chargers.
Todd Allen (11:20):
Gotcha.
And we also sell other brands,Enercys being one of them, where
it's a more conventionalcharger, still a smart charger.
They also offer variouschargers for different
applications.
So we continue to sell multiplebrands based on the
application.
Matt Weitzel (11:37):
So what do you think about gate charging?
Todd Allen (11:40):
We understand the need for gate charging because
there's an infrastructure issue.
And so the gates have power.
But with with everything, whenwe're trying to use workaround
solutions for the lack ofinfrastructure, you know, it's
great because it's a solution.
It's not the best or endsolution, but it is a good
(12:01):
solution when there isn'tanything else.
It's just, you know, you'rerelying on uh an aircraft and
not being there, uh ample powerspace.
So there there are some issuesthat have to be overcome.
And I think that's why youdon't see every airport relying
on it, but it is an absolutelygreat option when you don't have
(12:22):
another one.
Matt Weitzel (12:23):
Yeah, for sure.
And is that something you alloffer?
Todd Allen (12:26):
Is to sure we we offer a gate power sharing
device as well as we havechargers that operate directly
off of 200 volt, 400 hertzpower.
So we don't need to do any sortof special conversion.
We're kind of ready to go.
In fact, our our mobile cartmaybe we'll have time to talk
(12:49):
about that.
But one of the power suppliesthat you can use to charge the
battery that's on board is youknow, gate power, 400 hertz gate
power.
Matt Weitzel (13:00):
Yeah, I mean let's let's dive right in.
So you you have a you have amobile charging solution?
We do.
Devin Sinclair (13:06):
We call it the the quanticart.
We've got several names for it.
The name that you will see onthe side of the piece of
equipment is the quanticart, butthe uh the uncoined name is the
juice box.
Oh, I like the juice box.
The juice box, yeah.
Matt Weitzel (13:21):
The quanticart sounds like something out of a
Marvel movie, and the juice boxsounds like something out of my
lunch in elementary school.
Devin Sinclair (13:28):
So yes, exactly.
It's a little more attractive,right?
Tastes a little bit better.
But no, our our our quanticartis it's a very customizable
piece of equipment that can beused in several different
applications.
We were actually showcasing oneat the GSE Expo, and we got a
lot more traction than weanticipated getting on it, and
(13:51):
now we are picking and choosingthe customers that we want to
you know enter this new chapterof our business with.
So, Todd, I'll let you get alittle bit more into the specs
just because you can roll upyour tongue a little bit better
than I can.
That sounds exciting.
Matt Weitzel (14:08):
I know, dude, it's the best.
That's what that's what ourlisteners want.
Todd Allen (14:11):
Thanks, Stefan.
Well, I will say that it isjust like gate charging.
We're still talking aboutworkaround solutions.
We would much rather havechargers sitting there where
where tractors are and you canplug in.
But given that there isn'tchargers everywhere that are
easily available, it makes senseto have a device that you can
(14:35):
take out to the equipmentinstead of having the equipment
go have find a charger that mayor may not exist.
So the good thing about ourcart, one, is it's fully
electric, it has a battery onboard that supplies all the
power for charging.
And we can do a high voltagebattery or a low voltage
battery.
We can have uh 480 volt inputto 40 volt three phase or single
(14:59):
phase 400 hertz.
We could use an EV charger.
Whatever it is that you havewill be able to charge the
battery, we'll be able to evenbypass the battery and charge
and use that power to godirectly to the chargers with
you need two ports, you needfour ports.
The good thing about uh beingmobile is that it's small, you
(15:22):
can take it anywhere, and youcan daisy chain it.
We're basically using a baggagecard so that you can have one,
two, four, as many as you wantto take out to wherever you
need.
So it's the the flexibility interms of the power input, the
amount of power you need tocharge batteries, the ability to
(15:45):
be small enough and mobile totake it somewhere, and then the
outputs completely flexible interms of connectors, power,
current, and what we can charge.
We can charge a lead acid, wecan charge any chemistry, we can
do a identifier type chargingor BMS charging, which would be
our preference.
Devin Sinclair (16:06):
And being the uh sales and the director of sales
and marketing, I've got tothrow in too that as you saw at
the GSE expo, we can wrap itwith some pretty cool designs.
Matt Weitzel (16:16):
Oh, yeah, well, that's even more important.
That's the best part about it,right?
Devin Sinclair (16:19):
Although I don't think anybody's gonna want me
to design what their quant lookslike.
I'm just saying we can do it.
You can do it.
Matt Weitzel (16:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what does it look like if Iif I'm a customer and I'm
hearing this podcast and and I'minterested in that solution?
Where can I see one?
Are you all gonna have demos?
I know you're kind of pickingand choosing the customers
because of the the the feedbackthat you got at the GSE expo,
but what does that look like?
Todd Allen (16:42):
Yeah, the quantity of orders that we had to deny at
the show was quite it was hard,it's hard to say no to an
order.
Yeah, I know, right?
But we did we did agree to anorder.
First one will be at JFK.
Devin Sinclair (16:57):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
We have been asked to send oneto Honolulu, but we just don't
know if Honolulu is the bestspot for the first Guanic art.
Uh-huh.
Um, although I would love to gocheck on the Yeah, exactly.
Todd Allen (17:11):
Maybe you could stay for a couple months and
shortage of Valent Energyemployees who have volunteered
to be like a resident engineerin Honolulu.
But we had people in Europesaying that we were ready to buy
them right now.
We're like, hmm, let's put oneat JFK first.
Yeah.
Matt Weitzel (17:27):
Yeah.
Just make sure, yeah.
Get get it all field testedwhere where you can, and then I
guess this is kind of goes intosomething I wanted to talk about
is you know, what does yoursupport network look like at
Allen Energy?
Devin Sinclair (17:40):
Our suppliers offer a lot of support for us,
and our suppliers have dealernetworks across all of North
America.
So oftentimes we can lean ontheir support networks for
technical support or justgetting somebody out to an
airport.
Like I said, they've not onlyare they across North America,
but they've got locations rightaround the airports, which makes
(18:03):
that a lot more convenient.
Recently, as you know, demandhas shifted towards lithium,
we've found it very important tohire engineers and technicians
in-house that can also travelacross North America to assist
with the very little issues thatlithium has.
We've strategically locatedpeople across the United States.
(18:25):
All of us work from home,which, you know, pros and cons
to that.
But one of the pros is that weare strategically spread out
across the United States so thatif we do have to respond to a
service call, we can be there asefficiently as possible.
Okay.
Todd Allen (18:39):
And then Devin's personal service territory is
the state of California.
Yeah.
He has been doing real servicecalls on lithium batteries.
Very impressive.
Matt Weitzel (18:50):
Really?
Todd Allen (18:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I said.
Really?
Devin Sinclair (18:53):
Yeah, exactly.
I didn't know.
I am a firm believer that thebest way to learn something is
to get thrown in into the fire,get thrown into the deep end
because it's either sink orswim.
That's right.
Um, so I have purposely beenraising my hand when there is
something close to me that I cango put my attention on, not
because I want to get shocked bya battery and and file a
(19:17):
workers' comp claim.
And not because he has a newbaby at home.
Matt Weitzel (19:20):
It has nothing to do with any of those things.
Devin Sinclair (19:22):
Has nothing to be with nothing to do with me
wanting to be out of the house.
No, it really is because I amlearning 10 new things every
day.
And it is because I'm puttingmyself in these situations where
I'm I'm forced to learn.
Todd's gonna laugh at this, butthere's been situations where
I've gotten very frustrated,frustrated with myself because I
(19:43):
couldn't figure these issuesout when, you know, I probably
have no reason for for doingthat because it's not easy
stuff.
But, you know, I at the end ofthe day, the frustration turns
into me, you know, learning alot about the products that we
sell.
And it's been very helpfulhelpful for me getting the ball
rolling in this position.
Todd Allen (20:02):
I should I should add up the years of experience
in GSC we have, our technicalknowledge, including our our
service coordinators.
You could you could call any ofour or our sales coordinators,
any of our inside admin cananswer tech answer technical
questions because they've beendoing this for so long.
Matt Weitzel (20:22):
That's amazing.
That's good.
Yeah, I mean, you've been inbusiness since 2000.
So I mean, that that makes alot of sense.
And you keep a good crew aroundand they're able to help out.
And then what how does how doestelematics kind of work in
inside the batteries?
Does that help out with uhservice and support as well?
Is that something that youoffer?
Todd Allen (20:41):
Yeah, so frequently, because all of our all of our
equipment comes with telematics.
So so many times there'ssomething that is not working.
And it may or be it may besomething significant, but no
mostly it's very insignificant,just requires a switch, a
(21:02):
program change, firmware update,something, and we can go online
through the cloud, pull up thatpiece of equipment, identify
what the issue is, and possiblyjust fix it right there before
we have to then fly to adestination and take a lot of
time with equipment being out ofservice.
(21:24):
So that has been extremelyhelpful.
Our devices interface with someof the popular telematic
systems, and then we have youknow our own user interfaces for
different products.
Devin Sinclair (21:38):
Yeah, and believe it or not, a lot of the
times there's an issue with abattery.
All we have to do is tell thecustomer to go plug it into a
charger so we can tell remotelythat the battery is at a low
state of charge, and all theyreally need to do is go plug
that thing in.
But I understand it's very hardto plug a minute to a charger.
Matt Weitzel (21:59):
Well, it's it's all because of infrastructure.
If the infrastructure wasthere, they wouldn't have as
many problems.
Todd Allen (22:04):
Well, I think I could go by any major airport
and I would find completelydischarged batteries in a
tractor sitting right next to acharger unplugged.
Matt Weitzel (22:18):
Yeah.
I'd say that's probably thecase.
Yeah.
So what what does that looklike as far as so you know, with
lithium batteries, I guess youshould never let them get below
20%, and I guess they're optimalup to 80%.
Is that is that true?
So kind of talk to me aboutthat.
You you've been in the businessfor a long time, so you're a
(22:38):
good person to ask.
Todd Allen (22:39):
Yeah, so on a on a lead-acid battery, the maximum
depth of discharge would be 80%or state minimum state of charge
20%.
And all of the existingcontrollers have an algorithm to
prevent batteries from beingdischarged past that.
They don't work.
That's why we have deadbatteries.
(23:01):
Lithium with the BMS, itprotects the battery it protects
the battery.
So the battery protects itselfagainst an over-discharge, an
overcharge.
We we have a lot of marginbuilt in between what we call
zero and what we call 100.
So we will allow the battery togo down close to zero and all
the way to 100, even thoughthere's a lot of space, you
(23:22):
know, real space on either side.
If you want to maximize thelife of the battery, yeah,
you're operating in that thatmiddle state of charge, 20 to
80, would be a good target.
Matt Weitzel (23:33):
All right.
And then I just thought ofthis, and so I'm gonna ask you.
So we we I think I I mentionedearlier that you know, with this
big T6 project going on, so weannounced it on LinkedIn.
And we had a person on LinkedIncomment, well, it'll be
interesting to see how all thiselectric equipment holds up in
the cold.
(23:54):
So something of that nature.
So can you talk to thatquestion?
Like how how will all thiselectric equipment that we have,
you know, hold up in the cold?
And then do your batteries havesome kind of system where they
will warm themselves up to ifthey get too cold, all that kind
of stuff.
So every battery we ship hasheaters built in.
Todd Allen (24:16):
Okay.
Not just a wrap around thebattery, they're internal to the
batteries, so all the cellsmaintain a common temperature.
Even on the juice box, weliterally have a essentially
like a radiator style coolingand heating system so that this
the cells are always at the sametemperature that maximizes life
(24:37):
and performance.
But in the cold, if the batteryis not being used and it starts
to have a lower state, a lowertemperature, the heaters kick
on.
Here's where the problem comesin.
The heaters come on and they'llstay on and they consume power.
And if you are not using thebattery long for a long period
(24:57):
of time, eventually, and itwe're talking about days, uh,
the battery will discharge downand it and will eventually turn
off.
Then the temperature continuesto drop, then you have a dead
battery that's cold, and lithiumhas a unique downside in terms
of charging.
(25:18):
You cannot charge a lithiumbattery below freezing.
So if you have a a battery thatis below 32 degrees Fahrenheit
and it's uh it's dead, then youhave to heat that battery back
up one way or the other.
Matt Weitzel (25:36):
So maybe tow it into a place that's covered and
and bring up the temperaturenaturally put it into a
microwave.
Todd Allen (25:43):
And I've seen people use heaters, external heaters,
to literally outside blowblowing hot air onto batteries.
That tends to work.
We also have the technologywhere you plug into the charger
and the BMS says, give me just alittle bit of power, and that's
(26:03):
just enough to turn the heaterson, and then when the battery
gets warm, then we'll we'll askfor more power and start
charging the battery.
That requires the charger tohave the right protocol and and
have the right firmware, butthat technology is there.
Again, if you're in the coldand you have lithium batteries,
(26:26):
just plug them into thechargers.
If they're at a decent state ofcharge, they will always be on,
they'll always be hot, they'llalways be ready to go.
It's plugging into the chargerwould be the secret to
everything.
Matt Weitzel (26:39):
Thank you for answering that question.
So it just reminds me though,with the with the ACT chargers,
that's who you're using, right?
Do they also have telematics onthem because you said the
firmware has to be updated, allthat kind of stuff?
Can that be remotely done toupdate the chargers that you all
have out in operation?
Devin Sinclair (26:55):
Yes, it can.
ACT has proprietary softwarecalled ActView, which is
something that can be purchasedwith the chargers.
And that is essentially theirtelemetry that you can access
remotely.
Todd Allen (27:06):
And it's actually the best telemetry I've seen on
any charging system.
You can one, you'll get GPS soyou know exactly where it is,
but also you know, you can lookat historical data, you can see
every piece of information aboutthat charger when the last time
something got plugged in, whatgot plugged in.
(27:28):
What kind of charge happened?
If it didn't charge, what wasthe fault?
It'll even give you a liveversion of what the customer is
seeing on the screen of thecharger.
So you're looking at that onyour computer as he's looking at
it, they're live on site, andyou're looking at the same
thing.
It's very effective in terms ofmaintaining uptime on the
(27:51):
equipment.
Matt Weitzel (27:52):
What kind of advancements do you see
happening with batteries?
I know that you know peopletalk about sodium.
Is that is that right?
Sodium batteries.
What are you all looking at asfar as like future state?
I know obviously we we'vegotten to the point where, you
know, like you said, lithium isbeing used.
What's kind of next out therethat people are talking about?
Devin Sinclair (28:13):
This goes back to our industry specifically, is
is fearful of change.
And I think that lithium isstill such a new idea for the
GSE space that it's really hardto see that there is going to be
another change on the on thehorizon or in the near future.
But you know, technology seemsto change and be put out into
(28:37):
the market more rapidly as timegoes on.
So I have heard myself a lotabout sodium batteries.
I've heard that our militaryactually is is using a handful
of them in differentapplications.
So I think the test cases arestarting to starting to pop up,
and you know, that could be adirection that that it does go
in.
Todd Allen (28:57):
Yeah, we're constantly looking at whatever
might be a viable technology forGSC.
Sodium does seem to be what'snext, although it's not it's not
commercial be commerciallyviable right now.
But it will be eventually, Ithink, if we're gonna just take
our best guess.
Matt Weitzel (29:15):
Is it difficult like if I have a lead acid
tractor to then convert that toa lithium because of the weight
and things like that of thattractor?
There's have to be additionalengineering done.
Devin Sinclair (29:26):
I wouldn't say not necessarily additional
engineering, but yes, you'reright in the terms of the
counterweight reduction that youhave when you go into a lithium
battery because lithiumbatteries are a lot more
lightweight than the old stylelead acid batteries.
So, you know, when we are doingconversions from lead acid to
(29:47):
lithium, one of the things thatwe do have to do is drop a
counterweight, a piece of steel,into the tractor to get some of
that weight back.
But as far as the installationprocess, it's not a hard it's
pretty straightforward.
Todd Allen (30:00):
pretty straightforward yeah nice and
and if the if the tractor isolder and the and the controller
is not ready to take a cansignal we can still adjust uh
the parameters such that it'sstill it's still keeping the
battery from being overdischarged so the operator still
(30:21):
sees a low state of chargestill gets the alert still goes
into creep mode and theneventually would shut off and
then worst case it goes so longthat the battery will shut off
to protect itself.
Matt Weitzel (30:33):
Yeah I hadn't thought about the controller
side that's something that youall can help out with as well.
Todd Allen (30:37):
Yeah we typically if we were to do a retrofit it
from lead to lithium we'resupplying steel and then we're
supplying new parameters for thecontroller if the controller's
old if it's if it's new and itcan take a you know the can
signal which really it's onlylooking for state of charge
minimally we can offer as muchinformation as the tractor wants
(31:00):
but we're just giving it stateof charge so that it then can
have a correct uh setting on themeter and and then the operator
knows when to plug it in.
Devin Sinclair (31:09):
Yeah and to your point that is one thing on the
long list of things that we helpall of our customers with and
Allen Energy has seen a lot ofthe the issues and has had to
come up with a lot of solutionsfor for situations just like
that.
And you know that's why our ourcustomers call us because we've
(31:32):
got decades now of experiencejust finding solutions for
compatibility and transitioninto into new technology and
yeah we're we're a a resourcethat people can can rely on.
Todd Allen (31:45):
Yeah so with new technology as you're mentioning
what about high voltage chargingTodd what do you think about
what do you think about that Iknow that there's some some push
in the industry to get that isthat something that you see as a
is a viable thing and then howhow much further in the future
are we thinking that's going tobe well yeah I I feel like the
(32:06):
question is not if but whenyou've seen some OEMs go 100%
high voltage and have to comeback to low voltage and you've
seen uh some high voltagecompanies just really not
succeed because we are living inan 80 volt world every charger
(32:26):
installation is low voltage andto convert that to high voltage
is a long term process.
It's not just money it's it's alot of of work and coordination
and you've got lots ofdifferent companies out there
with different technologies andwe still haven't gotten the
integration standardized soeverybody's doing something a
(32:50):
little bit different and makesit it makes it challenging.
So I am one of those people whobelieves we're gonna go to high
voltage eventually.
Not next year it can't happen.
It's not possible but fiveyears like who knows who knows
but it's gonna happen.
And you see the technology onroad vehicle side really
(33:10):
starting to drive the technologyinto GSE.
I mean there was I can'tremember how many presentations
I gave about the positive plateand a lead acid battery and like
who who cares about that butnow we have like a lot of really
good high technology things totalk about.
And it gets complicated butit's it's it's exciting for our
(33:33):
industry to really be moving ina high tech direction and I
think is the bottom line yeswe're we're gonna go to high
voltage.
Is material handling alreadythere or no they're still in a
low voltage world too althoughthe high voltage offers so many
advantages in terms of densityperformance that and and the
(33:55):
integration like if you own anelectric car you might need an
adapter but you're gonna be ableto plug into any EV charger
that you find.
And it would be great if GSEcould get to that point where
any battery could plug into anycharger and work.
Devin Sinclair (34:13):
Yeah at this recent GSE expo I think it was a
it was a relevant conversationthat was happening often I I
know we had a couple of the OEMscome up to our booth asking how
we could integrate with highvoltage and outside of the GSE
expo we're also talking toairports that are starting to
(34:34):
ask questions about high voltagecharging.
Todd Allen (34:36):
So it's a a conversation that is you can
tell it's starting to happenmore and more so I am really not
trying to push the the juicebox because we have limited
production.
However the standardconfiguration has an EV charger
on it.
So we know we know that highvoltage EV charging is is
(34:59):
already here and it's just goingto continue to grow.
And we've geared the product upin anticipation that hey if the
industry does shift we've got asolution that's ready to go
right and if you want actuallywe have a customer who wanted
exclusively this cart for highvoltage charging they bought
this might have been a story forthe end of the conversation but
(35:19):
they bought something like 150electric high voltage EVs and no
chargers.
Wow and they're like we need wewe need about uh 50 of these
next month and I'm like yeahokay yeah talk about no problem
yeah exactly where where is thatbeing like manufactured put
(35:41):
together assembled whatever yeahright now it's in Dallas but at
the at the show we had about 10different people come up and
offer to be our our manufacturerfor that oh okay so we are
evaluating we're we can stillbuild them in small quantities
and we do that in Dallas butwe're evaluating like a high
production real qualitymanufacturer that can handle
(36:05):
high volume.
Matt Weitzel (36:06):
With the name like juice box that thing's just
gonna fly off the shelves man Imean this wouldn't want a juice
box.
They that's what I meaneverybody wants a juice box.
Todd Allen (36:15):
That's some good marketing over there with the
wraps with the wrap Devin yeahhe already brought the wrap all
right so kind of last big topichere is autonomous.
Devin Sinclair (36:29):
So what do you think about our industry going
to autonomous vehicles and howdoes Allen energy if at all fit
into that I think it's stillit's still got a ways to go but
another you know it was anothertopic that was thrown around a
lot at the GSE expo and a lot ofthe OEMs did have their
(36:49):
concepts showcased and we had aconversation with somebody last
night about how their theircompany is you know really
starting to get into this worldof technology and they're really
focusing on entering thatmarket so that they can give
back to their shareholders whatthey're looking for.
And I think that is enteringthis new stage of of autonomous
(37:12):
vehicles.
Again like I have said a coupletimes the industry is fearful
of change and that is probablythe biggest change that that we
will ever see just pulling laboroff of the airport and putting
vehicles that can do the workfor us.
So I I think there's somepolitics that's probably going
to slow it down as well.
But to my point the technologyis there and and people are
(37:36):
investing heavily in it and I dothink that it is the thing of
the future.
Todd Allen (37:41):
And well as far as Allen Energy's part in that we
offer I think the one componentthat's missing so far in
autonomous vehicles is you stillneed a person to plug it in.
So we offer a wireless chargerso you have an autonomous
vehicle you give it a locationto go back and charge and it
(38:03):
pulls up as soon as it getsclose enough and now we have the
technology it doesn't have tobe perfect.
You can get within six inchesor so and it will automatically
sense the vehicle make sure thatit's safe and it'll start
charging and it's all doneautomatically the there's
communication to identify thethe battery and we can charge
(38:25):
any chemistry.
Matt Weitzel (38:26):
That's amazing so it's like your iPhone right you
just like kind of put it on thatthing and it just starts
charging.
Devin Sinclair (38:32):
But you don't even put it on that thing right
puts itself on that thing.
Yeah.
Because it'd be a little bitscary if you had GSE operators
pulling up to wireless chargersbecause one they're expensive
pieces of equipment and and youcan't protect them with bollards
and fences you have to getclose.
You've got to get you knowwithin within a very short
(38:52):
distance for for the power toactually exchange.
Matt Weitzel (38:56):
But that makes a lot of sense for you all to get
involved in that because likeyou said if we're trying to cut
out operators right I meanthat's kind of that's that's a
big deal.
That's a big a big piece of itand you know with operators.
Well they don't always plug itin.
Todd Allen (39:10):
As I've always I keep saying it over and over
again plugging in your batteryto a charger seems like such an
obvious thing.
My daughter doesn't know how todo it so I don't know why I
expect rampers to do it.
I think I think like apushback's going back to the
same place.
Yeah it just went back to thesame place and got charged every
(39:30):
time it'd be perfect.
Devin Sinclair (39:32):
The technology also it does exist I I can't
remember what airport it is butat the airport electrification
conference on the east coast youknow back what what was that?
Matt Weitzel (39:43):
Yeah I think that's where I met you.
Devin Sinclair (39:44):
Yeah like officially yeah somebody was
talking about the wirelesscharging application that they
were using for the buses thatthey use to move passengers
around the airport.
So it's there it's out on theairport it just hasn't really
been brought into into GSE yetand I think the one thing that
is holding it back is is it safeand is it going to be cost
(40:08):
effective if we are running tugsinto wireless chargers.
Matt Weitzel (40:12):
Yeah yeah but I mean like I like you said I mean
autonomous is definitely comingjust like high voltage right
like we can't stop it it'scoming I think that high voltage
may beat autonomous but we'llsee it it'll be a race to the to
the long finish I think on thatone.
Devin Sinclair (40:26):
But well you got to put sodium batteries in the
race too.
Matt Weitzel (40:30):
Well uh yeah well I think I think that's gonna
probably be the last in thatrace but that's just yeah maybe
not but all right so now we'reon to the the fun part of the
podcast unless wait a minutehold on do we have anything else
that I haven't asked you aboutor we haven't covered I want to
make sure that you all geteverything out that you want to
talk about I I'd say we did havea product that got a lot of
attention at the show we have abattery identifier that's been
(40:55):
you know part of the integrationand GSE's always been a
challenge.
Todd Allen (40:59):
So we do have an identifier you can put on your
battery that'll allow it tocharge on multiple different
brands of chargers.
Devin Sinclair (41:06):
Oh that that'll be nice solves a lot of problems
for a lot of people thatthing'll be flying off the
shelves like the juice box whathave we named that well that one
actually does have a namethat's very similar and one of
the customers actually gave itto us and we've been running
with it but we call it the Toddbox.
Oh the Tod box yeah I like itnow we've got the juice box and
(41:27):
the Todd box.
Matt Weitzel (41:28):
Okay so the Todd box it'll make it so that way
you know no matter what thecharger is it can talk to that
battery and charge it.
Exactly that cuts out a lot ofthem the headaches.
Todd Allen (41:38):
And and I think I think we want to work with the
industry to try to standardizeprotocols pinouts contactors uh
connectors just let's you knowonce and for all like I think we
can work together I think thatwould be a great value to the
industry.
So we're gonna we're gonna as acompany we'll be pushing that.
Yep and we're currently workingon projects that require
(42:02):
universal identifier so and it'snot easy it's not easy to talk
to some of these chargers wehave our competitors battery
companies approaching ussometimes directly sometimes
indirectly trying to buy thethat identifier because they
can't charge on every chargerthey don't know how and but if
they buy that identifier theycan so it's been interesting
(42:26):
that's an amazing piece oftechnology I I know just coming
from the manufacturing side whenwhen a customer would try to be
explain to me what charger theyhave and I got to make sure
that it matches the batterywe're giving them and all that
kind of stuff.
Matt Weitzel (42:38):
I mean it's always always a task right so so I
think that's a I mean definitelysomething the industry needed
that's that's an amazing thingyou got there.
Devin Sinclair (42:46):
It's been helpful to a lot of people and I
think that there's still a lotof people that don't even know
that it it exists.
Well they will now yeah yeahabsolutely here we here we are
yeah but no I mean we had we hadpeople walk up to us at the GSE
expo not knowing that we hadthat device presenting the
issues that they were having andhere here we are waving our
(43:08):
universal identifier aroundsaying it really was just
sitting on the desk we had wehad people from other
manufacturers who wereexhibiting heard a story of a
problem and said you know Ithink I have an answer for you
and they'd walk them over to ourbooth and say I think this
might help you.
(43:28):
This is what you need yeah theTodd's out of the box now it's
out there you know yeah and justfor the record one of those
projects is one of one of thethings that I have thrown myself
into into the fire with tryingto implement onto equipment and
how that's not going so well forDevin right now but he's gonna
(43:51):
he's he's not gonna give up he'sgonna figure it out I had a
failure of a day but you knowwhat if you have a bad day you
wake up the next day and youjust have a better one.
You go again right you getlooking forward to going back
home so that I can just continuetrying to I got a call from one
of our engineers yesterday.
Todd Devin called me 15 timestoday I actually I went back and
(44:16):
counted how many times I calledher on Monday because I didn't
believe that it was 15 and itwas actually only nine so I've
got a little talking to Rebeccaokay yeah she exaggerated a
little bit just like you do.
Matt Weitzel (44:27):
We've got one thing in common.
Exactly there you go all rightso Devin you've been in the
industry long enough to to haveprobably a decent GSE story so
why don't we get your GSE storyout there to the community.
Oh man do you want a PG versionor do you want a rated R
version we're gonna go PG today.
Okay yeah we're gonna go LionKing.
Devin Sinclair (44:46):
Lion King okay I I have a really cool story and
it was a project that I I workedon at LAX years ago.
It was just a reallyfascinating thing for me to see
but it was the summit ofAmerica's event that the
government was holding well youknow our the the U.S.
was holding it somewhere in LAcouldn't tell you where it
didn't really matter to me butwe had presidents and officials
(45:09):
from all over the world you knowleaders of countries flying in
and military aircrafts andpresidential aircrafts air force
one flew in and and was rightin front of me but I was in a
role where I was leasingequipment and we had leased tons
of equipment to handle all ofthese all of these aircrafts
that were were coming in withwith presidents from all over
(45:31):
the world and I went out thereto to watch the whole thing why
not you know our equipment wasout there I had a reason to be
at the airport so I you know Ihelped facilitate the whole
thing and and for a whole day Ijust watched presidents roll in
on their on their very luxuriousjets and you know I watched C
17s come in with more equipmentand uh it's one of those moments
(45:54):
where you're like I never wouldhave guessed this is what I
would be doing today.
You know I never thought Iwould be here.
Yeah um but it was really cooland long story short the the
coolest part of it was I got tosee Air Force One come in you
know as close as I could get toit.
They only let you get within acertain certain range of it.
But I got to watch thepresident come off the airplane
(46:15):
and I got to look around me andsee all the snipers on on the
top of the roofs just protectinghim as he walked across the
airport and got into his armoredarmored black car and and drove
away but the whole experienceas a whole was something that
has been very memorable to mebecause I I don't you know
that's a once in a lifetimething for sure I think yeah but
(46:36):
it was it was cool and I I gotto roam the airport and I'm
walking under underneath thewings of yeah it's scary that
they let me out.
Yeah that's what I mean yeahexactly but no I got to walk
under the wing of you know thepresident of Peru's airplane I I
was a big fan of him yeah yeahI I had we we had Peruvian food
last night so I really likeexactly that's where you went
(46:57):
there yeah yeah exactly no I Ialso got a tour of the president
of Brazil's aircraft which wasyou know not as nice as Air
Force One probably but it was ait was a pretty cool start I'm
sorry to our Brazilian listenersjust apologize right now.
Yeah yeah I didn't leave anypresence inside uh inside of the
restroom there but but no itwas it was a very memorable
(47:20):
experience that is cool I Ialways choose that story because
it's family friendly and uhyeah it's a rare GSE story where
you actually get to talk aboutthe president so yeah definitely
that's impressive it's a storythat doesn't get anybody in
trouble so we'll stay away fromthe I like that I love those
stories.
Matt Weitzel (47:36):
Todd do we have any stories that isn't going to
get anybody in trouble?
Todd Allen (47:39):
I mean you kind of already kind of told your story
a little bit I mean you had sucha such a good fascinating
beginning of your career but youknow sometimes in GSE it's you
think nothing can surprise youand then you get a call and
you're like wow can't believethat happened a couple I mean I
can remember early on this isgoing back 20 25 years ago new
(48:01):
piece of electric equipment noone knew what it was battery
gauge the fuel gauge said it wasit was low and the guy went and
he filled the battery up withgasoline no joke yeah he won the
story for the day I'm sorrythat that beats your president
whatever you said.
I had a we had a guy thebattery wasn't charging because
(48:24):
of an integration issue so hetook a 400 amp hour battery
plugged it into a dumb chargerovernight put 2000 amp hours
into it and literally melted ifthey came in the next morning it
was melted it was a meltedthat's amazing lead and plastic.
Wow just one more I'm gonnatell one more just this is not
(48:46):
exciting okay but it's a it's asafety issue I got a call from a
GSE department saying that somethat this station is very
unhappy with your batteries andI'm like okay didn't even know
you had put batteries there sothey're like yeah for the last
four months every morning theyhave to go out and turn the
batteries on and I'm like whatlike what and they're like oh
(49:09):
yeah they turn off every nightand they're very unhappy they
think your batteries areterrible and I'm like we
actually sent Rebecca out and uhturns out that uh the batteries
were faulting at night and uhthey were just resetting them
but they had taken theidentifier off of random not
just anything consistent butrandom lead acid batteries put
(49:33):
it on a lithium battery andthat's a dangerous thing and
over the course of every morningfor four months no one said why
are these batteries faultingyeah and instead of maybe
calling somebody or someanything they just kept turning
(49:54):
them back on.
And lithium as excited as weare for that technology to come
into the industry it's still apretty volatile chemistry no
matter what chemistry you'retalking about.
So safety safety's going to beas we the as we start having new
technology not just batteriesbut new technology safety is
going to be a huge issue.
Devin Sinclair (50:14):
Sorry that was the probably the most boring no
I no I end of the end of theconversation but I think I mean
it it had a very good point toit that you know as we do move
forward we've got to be veryfocused on on the safety aspect
of of what we are doing becauseto your point as well you can
just slap a device on top of abattery that takes over
(50:37):
completely takes over control ofwhat is going on when you were
charging it.
And that's a very scary thing.
So you know ways that we caneliminate having things oh yeah
you said four.
Todd Allen (50:50):
Let's go four.
No well keep going we've gotanother hour anyway so you said
the record was 90 minutes.
Yeah exactly yeah I don't evenknow how long it's been it was
uh it was like a weekend eveningand I'm getting texts from
someone I don't know he'stelling me I don't know anything
about batteries or electricvehicles but I got to get this
back in service trying to helphim and I'm like hey let's let's
(51:14):
just back away like you this isdangerous.
And he's like and then a halfhour later he's like I was able
to break open the lock on thecover of the battery and I'm I
just got shocked and there was aloud noise and smoke is coming
and fortunately he didn't hurthimself that oh my god or the
battery he he blew a contactorand a controller but we really
(51:38):
do have to be careful.
Matt Weitzel (51:39):
You got to be careful yeah we we we
interviewed or I mean Iinterviewed two guys from
TechShron one had just retiredand he was like the head of
service and the other guy hadbeen working on GSE for the last
35 years.
I think it's 35 38 somethingcrazy number and he's like you
know it used to be people wouldcall me and I could walk them
you know through the stuff rightover the phone.
(52:00):
He goes now you know I'm likeis it high voltage?
It's like the first thing I askbecause if it's high voltage
I'm not walking you through thatI have to come and and do that
because it is so dangerous tomake sure that these people
aren't you know you can't messwith high voltage if you don't
know what you're doing.
Right.
So I think again the safety ofof making sure that you're
you're good you're not justbreaking into batteries and just
(52:22):
doing whatever you want rightso so anyway so no it's good
stories.
Devin you look like you havesomething to say.
Devin Sinclair (52:28):
No I I was just gonna start blurting out my
rated R story anyways but we'regonna oh no we're gonna we're
gonna leave that one on though Iwill definitely get somebody in
trouble.
Matt Weitzel (52:37):
If I kept all my stories very anonymous you did
you did yeah exactly well no I Iappreciate you guys coming down
today to to Orlando and meetingwith me.
It's been great learning aboutAllen Energy obviously I've I've
I've known Devin for a littlebit I've known you for a little
bit longer I think and and I'veheard good things about Allen
Energy so I wanted to have youguys on the podcast and I think
(52:57):
we learned a lot today and andgot to learn about your products
and about how you're justyou're so busy you don't even
know what to do as far asmanufacturing these things.
So so we'll have thesemanufacturers you know they're
gonna listen to this they'regonna reach out to you and
they're gonna ask if they canbuild it.
So maybe you'll have a couplemore people reach out to you.
Devin Sinclair (53:13):
Yeah and we want to thank you and Fort Brand for
having us this has been anawesome experience for both of
us like we had said earlier inthe conversation I can finally
check this off off my list.
That's right.
You know my my mom called meyesterday and she said well why
are you traveling this time andI said mom I'm actually going to
go be on a a GSE podcast andshe said is it live?
(53:33):
Can I watch it while you'redoing it and I said mom no
that's probably not a good idea.
Matt Weitzel (53:38):
One day we're gonna do a live one we have not
done a live GSE podcast yet sobut we got to figure out that
technology and we'll do it.
Todd Allen (53:46):
Good I probably we need to we need to meet up at a
at a GHI or expo or somethingthat would be a perfect perfect
place oh yeah that then thatthat is the last thing that
we'll talk about.
Matt Weitzel (53:57):
So what shows are you attending coming up either
the end of the year or beginningof next?
Yeah.
Devin Sinclair (54:04):
Next week actually we've got the NBAA
conference in Las Vegas and Ican't say I have ever been to
that conference before.
I think that there will Are yougoing to walk it or exhibit?
We're we're we're just walkingit okay it's just myself and and
Jesse.
I figured it was a good time togo check it out.
I've got some customers in theFBO space that they've they've
(54:27):
got electric equipment at everysingle one of their locations
across the United States andthey've always got questions
about charging capabilities andhow they can advance their
fleets and where they theyshould be spending their money
on on technical advancements.
So I figured that this wouldprobably be a good year for us
to go poke around and and seewhat kind of conversations that
(54:48):
we have.
And it's not that I want to bein Vegas again.
We were just having a wild timefor the GSE expo and I don't
know if my body can handle itagain.
Matt Weitzel (54:57):
So uh we've this will be a little toned down
version of that I guess so Ithink it's going to wild time
yeah I haven't seen your expensereport yet so we got we got
MBAA and then I'm guessing youall will be at GHI America's in
Panama next year.
Yeah is that a good guess?
Devin Sinclair (55:13):
Yep we will definitely be in Panama we'll
also be in Amsterdam oh you'regoing to you're going to the GHI
annual conference in Amsterdamand then you've got you've got
one in LA some coming up the theWest Coast electrification
conference is coming up as wellI'll be attending that listening
to to everybody speak.
I won't be on a panel myselfwell that's a miss.
(55:36):
Yeah you know what I mean I'llhave to contact somebody about
that but yeah that's okay.
You know the thing about beingon a panel is they can't edit
sections of it out.
Yeah exactly they can't stopyou from some from saying the
right he did ask if he could beon a panel and they said we
heard they said why don't youwarm up with the GSE podcast
there we go we'll see how thatgoes.
Matt Weitzel (55:56):
Yeah exactly so all right well thank you all so
much for for coming down Iappreciate it.
This has been Todd and Matt andDevin for the GSE podcast
thanks a lot guys thank youthank you for tuning in to this
episode of the GSE podcast wehope you found it informative
and engaging.
(56:17):
If this episode resonated withyou please share it with your
colleagues and peers in theground support equipment
community your support isinvaluable to us.
We'd appreciate if you couldtake a moment to rate and review
our podcast.
Your feedback not onlyencourages us but also helps
expand our reach within the GSDcommunity.
Keep an eye out for moreepisodes as we continue to
(56:37):
explore the dynamic world ofground operations, bring you the
latest trends, insights andstories from the industry.
Thank you for listening to theGSD Podcast.
Until we meet again staygrounded and keep pushing
forward
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