October 1, 2024 • 44 mins
What is the difference between organizational greatness and mediocrity? What do extraordinary leaders do that others don't? In this episode Cameron Herold, the "CEO Whisperer," shines some light on some of those answers.
Cameron shares his incredible journey as a global nomad and his experiences visiting 54 countries. We delve into his expertise in leadership, exploring crucial skills like situational leadership, coaching, and project management. Cameron also highlights the importance of creating a vivid vision for organizations, whether for-profit or nonprofit, to align and inspire teams.
We discuss the challenges of a multigenerational workforce and how to cultivate a culture of empathy and collaboration. Cameron emphasizes the significance of removing cultural cancers from organizations and investing in leaders to drive success. This episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice for leaders at all levels.
Don't miss this chance to learn from one of the best in the business. Tune in, and if you want more, let us know for a potential part two!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
You're listening to the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
No nonsense, just a crazy mix of life, business, the funny, and of course,
we're going to talk about your money.
But just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. What could go wrong?
Music.
All right, welcome to another episode of the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
(00:27):
I am extremely Extremely excited today for a guest that we've,
you know, as I was fanboying out earlier, our paths have crossed and you've
had a major instrumental impact on our practice.
Cameron Herald himself, the CEO Whisperer. Thanks for joining me today.
I appreciate it. Of course, Brian. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
(00:49):
So most of the time the guests stumble
out the gate because the first four questions are the hardest ever.
So I figured we'd get them out of the way early and then the rest is usually pretty easy from there.
So let's start with what is the top place on your bucket list that you want
to visit but haven't visited yet?
Wow, this is almost a trick question. So my
(01:12):
wife and I sold everything three years ago and we've been global
nomads for the last three years we've been to 54 countries
in the last three years and this october we're
going to be crossing off one of my bucket lists that's been there for 30 some
years when i was back in 1991 i was backpacking around the world i heard a friend
went to vietnam and i was like whoa that would be so cool and he went to lao
(01:35):
i'm like that would be so cool and i and i never got back to that region of
southeast asia to to actually go and explore it.
And this October, my wife and I go to Laos and Vietnam.
So that's going to be one that we're crossing off.
And we actually have bucket lists. If you want to link them in the show notes,
my wife and I publish our bucket lists and we share them with the world to inspire
(01:55):
people just to live what we're calling our bucket list life.
I love it. Absolutely. No, I love sharing that. And I think it's so important.
I mean, you don't tend to do the things if you don't make the plans to do them.
So I live by a bucket list myself.
All right. That was a good start. All right. Only gets worse from here.
(02:16):
This one's a little bit more tricky. What food will you not eat under any circumstance?
What food? Well, I really don't like eggplant, but once in a while,
it's good. Under any circumstance, is there a food that I will not eat?
Man, again, because I'm so well-traveled. I've been to 75 countries, 76 countries.
(02:39):
Sea urchin, I've had it a couple of times, and it really kind of gags me and
doesn't taste super good.
So I'd have to put sea urchin down there. It's pretty high up. But I think, again,
because we're such global nomads and I've been traveling the world for
years i'm pretty open to most but that
sea urchin is one oh and then in india they
have this thing called creatures which are like these bugs that
(03:01):
they serve with like a goat milk that's pretty
disgusting it's like it's like these bugs in milk
like you would eat like cereal it's pretty gross so i'm really glad you mentioned
that second line because that i draw the line at insects a hundred percent will
not i don't care if you coat it with chocolate oh i've I've had great grasshoppers
(03:22):
and crickets and ant eggs and like all that stuff's been pretty good.
But yeah, the creatures, the bugs in milk, I'm pretty much a hard pass.
All right. You and me both. All right. Very good.
Now we're going to tap into your creative side.
If you could start a band, what would the name of your band be? Wow.
(03:44):
It would be closing down because I'm really bad at anything creative.
It'd be like, it'd be our last show. The band would be called The Last Show.
Yeah, that would probably be mine. I'm just so not inclined to,
I love music. I just went to two dead shows in Vegas.
Yeah, just not, I'm so left brain, not creative. I love and appreciate it,
(04:06):
but yeah, mine would be The Last Show.
I like that. Yeah, it's probably better than some of the ones I've kicked around for myself.
So we'll take it.
Besides this show, of course, which everybody loves, and your own Shore as well,
which I want to make sure we will plug.
The Second in Command podcast is fantastic.
(04:27):
Are there any other podcasts that you like that have had an impact on your life
that you would want to recommend to somebody else that they check out?
Well, it's interesting. So there's the typical business podcast that I really like.
So I like My First Million with Sam Parr and Sean Puri. I really love the All
In podcast with the guys from the Bay Area, because they're just talking about
(04:50):
really cool issues around business and government and AI.
And that's kind of intriguing. I'm going to their conference later on this fall.
But my wife and I are listening to a bunch of stuff around biohacking, so around health.
We're listening to stuff around sexuality, polarity.
So I listen to a bunch of stuff on that. So we're kind of going outside of the
(05:12):
business world and listening. In fact, like the podcast that I was listening
to this morning, I'll just read you the name of the show.
Because I think it's interesting, you know, at the end of the day,
none of this stuff matters, right?
Like the stuff that we are sitting and thinking about and worrying about constantly,
at the end of the day, we die.
You know, we talked about a really close friend of ours, John Rulon,
(05:33):
who passed away recently, and I'd rather be thinking about other issues. shoes.
So we listened to the Health Optimization Podcast with Tim Gray.
We actually went to his conference and we listened to one called Ignite Intimacy,
listened to one called Sex with Emily, another one called Upgrade Human,
Dave Asprey. I used to coach Dave.
The one I was listening to this morning is The Tantric Life with Layla Martin.
We actually went to a conference with her over in Turkey.
(05:55):
So we're doing a lot of work around the rest of our life to stay very balanced.
And that's probably because we're plugged into a very European and global audience
now, now whereas in North America like if you and I met on the street you know
I would say to you what do you do and you would probably answer with oh I build
a wealth management firm and I run a podcast.
(06:16):
When when you're in Europe and someone asks you what do
you do that's not how they answer in fact
if you answer with what you do to make money they kind of go no I didn't like
they almost stop you like that's not even what they meant they're like what
do you do like what are you exploring what are you learning what are you having
fun with like I don't give a shit what you do to make money So I think that's
probably why we're kind of unplugging a little bit from the business world more
(06:38):
and thinking about a more holistic world in life.
I love that. And yeah, I mean, any and all of those are absolutely, I think, vital.
You know, my wife actually is a certified nutrition coach, and we love all things
natural medicine, healing, health, mind, body.
(06:59):
And yeah, I mean, all of the things that, again, you know, we don't live to work. We work to live.
Yeah, I think North Americans need that reminder more and more.
Completely agree. I completely agree.
All right. That was a great first four. And now we can start to have some fun.
And like I said before, I know I am very fortunate that our paths have crossed.
(07:21):
But outside of what anyone can read and find you online,
I'd really love to hear you tell us, what are the highlights of your professional
journey so far that have been the most meaningful to you? How would you tell your story?
Maybe not in the way that somebody would Google you and learn about you? Wow, great question.
(07:45):
So I'll kind of go through a little bit of a timeline. So I would say that the
most meaningful, from the time that I was seven years old until the time that I was about 16 or 17,
I ran about 15 different little small business ventures.
Some of them lasted a day, some of them lasted three or four weeks,
some of them lasted a summer.
(08:06):
But it's a lot and I could repeat a dozen
of them off the top of my head really quickly the lessons that
I learned from those little businesses because I
was doing it and I was experiencing it and I
was struggling with it and I was feeling the successes I really internalized
the lessons and it was like my mom and dad weren't out there running my lemonade
(08:28):
stand I was out there running my lemonade stand so I really learned so much
from the act of doing I think that was a very meaningful part of my business career was all,
and I did a talk that's been on the main TED website for 13 years now, or 14 years,
called Let's Raise Kids to be Entrepreneurs.
And it was about the lessons that I learned from my entrepreneurial journey.
(08:48):
So that was very meaningful.
The second one was when I was in second year university.
I found a flyer on the floor and I went to throw it out and it said,
earn $10,000 and run your own business.
And I was like, whoa, let me read that before I throw that out.
You know, that was 1986, $10,000 was a lot of money in 1986.
That's probably the equivalent of, you know, make $40,000 today. Right.
(09:12):
So, you know, imagine being in university second year and you can make 40 grand.
That was just, and in Canada when tuition was only, you know,
it's only 5,000 a year today.
So I was making eight times what my tuition was in a summer.
That was pretty intriguing. And I got involved in a group called College Pro
Painters, which went on to become the largest residential house painting company on the planet.
(09:33):
I was a very successful franchisee for them for three years,
but then I got to work at the head office level for four years where I was recruiting,
hiring, training, and coaching 120 of their franchisees.
And that was very powerful for me because at a very young age,
like 24, 25, I was getting close to a hundred hours training on situational
(09:56):
leadership, close to a hundred hours on coaching, close to a hundred hours on interviewing.
Like I got deep, deep leadership skill training on about 10 or 12 core skills
that most entrepreneurs and managers haven't even bumped into.
You know, maybe they've learned from experience, but I had, you know,
coaches and workbooks and trainers and role practicing and video sessions and
(10:17):
really in-depth leadership training that was very powerful. So that was very meaningful.
You know, I got to hire, at the time it wasn't meaningful. I hired Kimball Musk,
who, you know, Elon's younger brother worked for me in 1993.
His cousin, Peter Rive, who went on to build SolarCity worked for me.
At the time, they were just great franchisees, but that turned out to be meaningful
because of some of those relationships later in life.
(10:40):
And then so college pro was successful. I would call it my real world MBA.
And then I think the next meaningful one, you know, I built a private currency company. It was cool.
Building 1-800-GOT-JUNK for sure was meaningful, right? Like we built the number
two company in Canada to work for.
I was the COO and took them from 2 million to 106 million in six years.
(11:01):
That was certainly meaningful. Getting on Oprah, like all the awards,
that was meaningful. And then I guess lastly, I've now been paid to speak to
audiences of entrepreneurial groups in 29 countries and on every single continent.
So three years ago, I got paid to speak in Antarctica to a group of entrepreneurs.
So I've now literally been paid to speak on all seven continents in 27 countries.
(11:22):
That's kind of meaningful in a way that I've been able to share my ideas with
the world and help all these entrepreneurs because my core purpose is to help
entrepreneurs make their dreams happen.
Were there penguins involved in that one? I hope so. There was a lot of penguins on that one.
One day we saw somewhere between 300 and 400,000 penguins and we got to walk through them.
Yeah, penguins shit and piss a lot, though. It's disgusting the smell of 300,000 penguins.
(11:47):
Well, maybe one day I'll find out in person, but I'll take your word for it for now.
Well, thank you for sharing that. And again, I know from personal firsthand
experience, the impact that you do have on a regular basis.
And I would like to...
I'd like to unpack some of the, you know, you've written a bunch of really great
(12:09):
books, many of which are probably sitting right here on the shelf next to me in my office.
But the one that I know had so much impact on my practice, my professional life was Vivid Vision.
But I'd like to kind of talk about that because it's very, you know,
it's written, as you were just describing, for a very entrepreneurial kind of
(12:32):
focus. And yet, I feel like it has application regardless of the type of organization.
I think there's application maybe for someone in the association or nonprofit space.
So can you start there and talk about how you would take Vivid Vision into that
arena and still have it be meaningful and impactful?
(12:52):
Sure. And I know the association space. I mean, I was involved in a number of
different trade associations over the years as a member. remember I've been
a speaker at the ASAE, which is the American Society for Association Executives.
I spoke at their Canadian conference in Halifax, gosh, around 10 years ago.
I know a bunch of people that are in and around the industry.
I've coached a group called the MCI Global that kind of advises lots of the
(13:13):
trade association does works for. So I know this space.
A trade association effectively is a business. They have a mission.
They have a core purpose. They have core values.
They're trying to do something for their members. Their customers are really
their members. So you can kind of see an association like a business.
It has a budget, it has people, it has timelines, it's got goals.
(13:33):
The idea with a vivid vision, if I can unpack it, it becomes a four or five
page written description of what your business or association looks like,
acts like, and feels like three years in the future.
So if I was an associate, let's say I was the association of,
you know, chiropractors and I was going to craft a four page description of
(13:53):
what the association of chiropractors looked like in the future.
I would have a couple of paragraphs about our members. I'd have a couple of
paragraphs around how we raise money.
I'd have a couple of paragraphs around our conferences, how we communicate with
members, how we deal with the media, the benefits people get,
how our internal employees work, maybe how we learn from other associations.
(14:15):
I would describe the culture, the meeting rhythms, our dashboards.
I'd really talk about every aspect of the business as if I was walking around
the association and describing everything I could see.
And I would then bring that, you know, rough draft. I would have a copywriter
polish it, or I'd push it through a couple rounds of chat GPT with some good prompts.
And I'd punch out this really good, clear description that I could add some
(14:41):
graphic design elements so it feels like the association.
And I would share it with everyone. I'd share it with my customers,
my suppliers, my employees, my partners, the members, so that everybody could
see what the board of the trade association could see or what the CEO or chairman
of the association could see.
And that way, everybody is now completely aligned and pulling in that same direction.
(15:02):
So the ideas from the members become aligned with the vision.
The ideas from the board become aligned with the vision. Because right now,
people can have lots of ideas.
But if we don't know where we're going, any road will take us there,
right? That was the Cheshire Cat and Alice in Wonderland.
And the problem with ideas is unless they're aligned line with a vision,
the ideas can pull us in every different direction.
(15:24):
It's like a clock, right? If you think that the center of the clock,
we can have ideas pulling us in 12 different directions, or we can have everybody
pulling towards the number 12.
No, and I really, I mean, that resonated so well with us, with our practice.
It was part of what I think galvanized a rebrand for us that led to some great success.
(15:46):
But it was because...
It was, yeah, it was vision that everybody could buy into and then invest in.
And I think what you were just describing landed to me as a way to get all of
these disparate parties that all should have,
you know, the obvious connection of being a part of the organization to take
(16:07):
it a step further and to invest in the organization's vision and see how they're connected to it,
you know, manifesting three years down the road.
How would you do that with a board of directors yeah
interesting so the board of directors really would have to kind of
craft it together and it's partially dependent and this is one of the frustrations
(16:28):
i have with boards or with non-profit groups is they often transition leadership
every year so i would really culturally first get the leadership team of the
association to say say, regardless of who's on the board,
we will always have a three-year vivid vision.
We will not change that three-year vivid vision until the end of the three years.
(16:51):
So if you're the board in the first year, you're going to be in charge of crafting
the vivid vision and starting to execute it.
If you're the board in the second year, you are just executing against the one
that was written the year before.
If you're the board in the third year, you're the one that's executing the one.
And then at the end of your three years, you're writing the next three-year
one. So you prevent two of those three years from redoing the vision.
(17:12):
Because if every year you change the vision, it's like this,
you get whiplash, it goes nowhere.
It's the groups that are very aligned with core purpose, with core values,
with mission, with the vision.
If they continue to drive towards that, that's where scale happens.
And I think that's what often happens with the nonprofits or associations is
(17:32):
the new leadership team comes in and they have a different vision.
But what happens is you just zigzag you
know you're like tacking on a boat it just takes you forever to to go in the
direction you want to go in i love that it's challenging that doesn't go without
challenge so you know you really have to sell them on the benefit of that right
(17:52):
so i always say sell them don't tell them so if you sell them on the bit on
the reason this is powerful.
That's why they can then go in that direction and it you know what you're describing
there's There's a lot of people in the association leadership space that talk
about the concept of foresight.
And I think what you're sharing connects with that very, very strategically because, yeah, it does.
(18:18):
It helps get all of those parties together.
It helps create continuity from a leadership standpoint versus a scenario where
you don't have that kind of framework that everybody can now see where their place is.
And, you know, it's natural for boards to want to come in and make their impact
if in the absence of, of maybe something that would allow them to be more effective.
(18:41):
And so, I mean, I think what, what board members have to ask themselves is, is my vision.
More important than the health of the organization or the association.
And if it is, you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons, right?
If you're so married to the fact that you just want to do something that you
(19:03):
want to do, that isn't necessarily the best thing for the organization.
So I think that's where the really kind of introspective, emotionally intelligent
leaders will come in and say, you know what, I'm good with just executing for
the the next couple of years, because I can actually make a big dent in this organization,
continuing to drive for that period of time towards that, which is by the way, very COO, right?
(19:30):
Most, I run an organization called the COO Alliance, which is like a trade association.
For COOs. There's no entrepreneurs allowed.
It's only second in commands. And we have second in commands from 17 countries.
Countries, there's not a single COO that's in our COO alliance who sets the
vision for their company.
They come in and they say, CEO, show me the vision of where we're going and
(19:54):
then move to the side and let me figure out how to get you there.
There's not a general contractor in the world that comes into a home and says,
let me design a dream home and build it for you.
The homeowner is like, no, no, this is what I want my dream home to look like.
Design that, right? Right. The homeowner has the vision.
And I think that's where boards have to be careful is, is our job to be so kind
(20:18):
of focused on vision or is it to be focused on the good and the health of the
organization we're building and the members that are in it?
I completely agree. And you mentioned really, really important skill sets for COOs.
Would you have maybe like a top three crucial skills that you have found in
that space that are really instrumental in the difference between a healthy
(20:43):
organization or maybe one that's not as healthy? Yeah, I do.
So in fact, I launched a course three years ago called Invest in Your Leaders.
It's an an online leadership course that has the 12 core leadership skills that
I believe not only every COO, but anyone who manages and leads people need to be good at.
So this is like anybody on a board of an association, anyone running a business,
(21:04):
any vice president or C-level or manager or director.
And the skills, the core skills, I'll even go from the 12 down to six.
Everyone who manages people needs to be really good at these skills.
And most have had no training, situational leadership and
we can talk about anything if you'd like to so situational leadership coaching delegation
project management time management
(21:27):
and one-on-one meetings everyone who
leads people if they're not good at those things they're they're managing and
overseeing people they're holding them accountable which you don't need to do
they're constantly herding cats they're frustrated with projects they're always
following up on deliverables because they don't have the proper skill sets to
make those happen, right?
(21:49):
So if they're good at those six skills, you can almost flip the org chart upside
down where now, and it's like a board of an association shouldn't be telling members what to do.
The board of the association is there to support members.
It's there to help members. It's there to align members. It's there to inspire members.
So really the CEO is at the bottom supporting the managers who are supporting
(22:11):
the members who are supporting the vision of the organization,
and you almost like an inverted pyramid, it's teaching leaders and managers
those skills that I'm so kind of focused on.
No, I love that. I think ones that I know have stood out maybe more than others. It's interesting.
There's a lot of, I think, people in leadership positions that might recognize
(22:32):
and acknowledge their project management skills may not be as up to snuff in certain ways,
especially those that tend to be more drivers and kind of in,
I don't know, maybe something akin to like a sales type of mentality.
They don't have the ability to kind of sit down and
and you know create a process or compartmentalize and i
(22:53):
also love the situational leadership as well because i
think that that's critical let me let me speak to situational leadership
but let me also speak to something else which is there's not very many entrepreneurial
managers or even really any leaders in most companies that have ever had the
training the formal training on these skills most have learned by doing so i
(23:14):
was interviewing or i I was coaching a CEO about six months ago.
And I said to the CEO, how much training have you ever had on doing an interview,
right, on interviewing potential hires?
And he said, well, nothing formal. I've read a couple books and I've interviewed
100 people, so I know how to do it. I said, maybe you've done it wrong every single time.
And he went, whoa, I didn't know that.
(23:37):
Like if you asked me five years ago, do I know how to swing a bat in baseball?
I would have said yes, until all of a sudden I was at my kid's baseball practice.
I'm Canadian, so we didn't know this, but your back elbow is supposed to be up high.
I didn't know that. I was 50 years old. Nobody ever, so I really didn't know
how to swing a bat properly.
I had done it wrong for 50 years.
(23:58):
So when you get the proper training, business gets difficult.
And I think for most leaders, they're like a fly. You know, you've seen a fly
trying to get out the window and it keeps banging its head on the window and
the fly ends up dead on the windowsill.
That's because most leaders are trying to work hard doing
what they've only ever done if you step back and
you get some training you realize there's a door over here and you just turn
and go out the door and you're home free and i think that's the the case for
(24:23):
why it's important to grow our people it's even why i called my course invest
in your leaders is it's about investing in them because that's where you're
going to get the multiplication of the results Well,
so I want to pivot on this point,
because one thing that I know has been a major topic across certainly the association
(24:43):
space, but I don't even think it's unique to any one type of industry,
for-profit or nonprofit,
but kind of the workforce environment that we're in today. Would you say...
We are in a unique environment today that maybe is new.
Is it the same as it has been? A lot of people are trying to say,
(25:03):
you know, this digital distributive workforce, it's unique and,
you know, we've never had anything like it.
But I don't know. There are other people that I think that there are some fundamental
elements of workforce development and culture building that are time tested.
And this is what's interesting around the skills that I gave you is every single
one of those skills does not change,
(25:24):
even though we're now remote teams or hybrid teams or global teams.
Like I'm speaking to you over wifi on a laptop.
I'm in a different country than you're in and it doesn't matter.
But in terms of situational leadership, if I'm going to lead you on something,
I would apply it exactly the same over video or in person.
If I was coaching you, it would be the same over video or in person.
If I'm delegating a project to you or an initiative, I would be delegating following the systems.
(25:47):
Like those six skills that I gave you are identical identical, and they don't change.
What has really changed because of the digital world is leveraging the tech stack.
You know, we're no longer using paper-based day timers. You know,
I'm not using a telephone, I'm using video.
We have asynchronous communication, we can use digital whiteboards,
but the act of leading people and influencing people and growing people,
(26:12):
none of that's really changed.
You know, maybe I'm not going to have you learn by reading a book,
I might have you learn by reading a PDF on a website and by watching some videos,
but training is training. Coaching is coaching. Delegation is delegation.
Situational leadership. That's probably why I've been able to do what I do for
35 years is because the niche that I'm world class at is around the area of
(26:35):
building and developing people and leaders.
And I didn't become an expert back in the nineties on marketing because everything
I learned about marketing in the mid nineties would have been dead by now. Right. Yeah.
Well, and so, oh, sorry,
there's a second part to that is I think there's some
generational differences right now around people that we have to remember that
(26:57):
the incentives and the satisfiers for Gen Z and the second half of Gen Y is
very different than the first half of Gen Y and Gen X and the baby boomers, right?
Baby boomers came to work for a company for 15 years.
Gen X came to work for a company for five to 10 years. Gen Y came to work for
(27:19):
a company for two to five years.
Gen Z is like six months to two years max.
And it's because the baby boomer parents are saying, don't go work there for
15 years, hop around, work up the ladder, right?
Why would you stay like, so we're training people to do that.
And then now we have the ability to work from anywhere, collaborate.
So the, The needs of the people is different.
(27:41):
What satisfies them is different, but intrinsically leading them is the same way.
Well, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned the generational piece.
I was just reading an article in the Washington Post today talking about the
first time, I guess, in recorded human history that we have five major generations in the workforce.
And just to your point, how challenging it is to kind of, I guess,
(28:06):
maybe create a culture where you're honoring, recognizing,
acknowledging, and creating a space where every generation can be their best selves.
Because that's, you know, it's different for everybody. Well,
and so the example I always go back to, and it's funny, I keep referencing this
in so many different situations, and it's the book, Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.
(28:27):
You know, Brian, you and I are men, or I guess we have male parts,
whatever we're supposed to call it these days. We are men.
We are not hairy versions of women. We see the world differently.
We perceive the world differently. We solve problems. Like women and men just
see and perceive things very differently from each other.
Generations see and perceive things very differently from each
other so the key is to make sure that you understand them
(28:51):
you understand what satisfies them you understand their needs you understand
the way that they're perceiving things and you understand the relative strengths
and weaknesses they both have so as an example one of our members of our coo
alliance he's only 22 years old he's running a hundred person company that he's
built from three people to a hundred and he's He's their CFO.
He is incredible on the automation and optimization of processes and integrating things using Zapier.
(29:17):
So he's literally automating every process.
Now, he doesn't necessarily have the leadership wisdom that a baby boomer who's,
you know, 65 might have somebody who's been leading people for 40 years has
been running teams, but the baby boomer can teach the 22 year old about the leadership wisdom.
System the 22 year old can teach the 65 year
(29:37):
old about integration in the tech stack if they
can learn about their relative strengths and weaknesses and join
hands like a man and a woman can actually learn to
to men are from mars women are from venus we can learn to speak with each other
collaborate together and build a very strong team and i think that's one of
the skills of coos is how do we build teams how do we get people to collaborate
(29:59):
how do we get people to think so one of the key skills I'm working with people
with on right now. Do you watch any American football?
Of course. Favorite football team? Well, I'm promotion DC, so it's the Commanders.
All right, so we got the Commanders. So on the Commanders, you got their football
team, the Commanders. You have the offensive team. You've got the defensive
team. You have the special teams.
For the wide receiver, which is his most important team?
(30:24):
Offense. Are you sure? I would say so.
What team does he play for? But I'm open to debate. What team does he play for?
Oh, the Commanders. That's his most important team. Okay.
Now, what happens in companies is when you're running a functional area,
if you're the head of marketing, the VP of marketing or the chief marketing
(30:44):
officer tends to think that marketing is their most important business.
Not at all. That's your second team. Your first team is the company.
So even at 1-800-GOT-JUNK, when we were building our leadership team,
I got them to think about the leadership team as the first team and your functional
area was your second team.
So when leaders can actually show up remembering
(31:04):
that we're debating things we're working together we're collaborating
we're communicating for the good of the organization because when
that wide receiver is going out onto the field he's high-fiving
the defense he's cheering on the defense he's telling the defense where they
just got beat and how to and then when the defense is coming out like they're
in it together right they're not just myopically focused on their part of the
(31:27):
greater team and i think that's what i'm trying to get leaders to recognize too is that
our job is to build healthy debate for the good of the organization,
to argue to build the core values, to drive hard towards the overall vivid vision
and to fight for your business area needs, maybe never, right?
Because what you're really fighting for is the good of the goals,
(31:47):
the vivid vision, the core values and the core purpose.
Well, and I think what you... And sorry, and that should be the same for every
trade association, right?
What we're trying to do is to build the vivid vision for the organization,
not whatever you personally believe because you're on the board for this particular part of time.
Like this is a 50-year organization or 100-year organization.
We're supposed to be building some legacy that is helping the good of our members,
(32:11):
that kind of a thought process, I guess. Sorry, go ahead.
Well, no, what you described, that touched on, I think, a really critical thing
that That I think in many respects is either missing or in development,
but maybe not as actively prominent as it should be across organizations for
profit and nonprofit alike.
(32:32):
And that's maybe a culture of listening and empathy that leads to that kind
of collaboration where you're inviting these generations to be present and to
provide their feedback. back.
I don't know that many organizations do as good of a job as I think they could
at allowing people to provide their perspective, their framework in a manner
(32:53):
that they feel heard and they feel like they're contributing to that overall goal.
How do you see that? And how would you, I guess, encourage it?
Remember when you were five years old and you wrote a letter to Santa Claus?
I do. Dear Santa, you know, I would like this train and this model toy or whatever.
And you walk down to the mailbox with your mom and you're holding hands and
(33:14):
you put the letter into the mailbox for Santa and you keep your fingers crossed.
And six weeks later, oh my gosh, Santa read my letter. It's like,
no, Brian, mom read your letter. Like Santa doesn't exist.
But what mom wanted to do is she kind of asked Brian in this tricky way,
what's important to you. And then she just bought you what was important to you.
And it's easy when you're building a business or an organization or an association,
(33:35):
the leadership team doesn't have to have the answers for what to build.
What they have to do is ask all the members to write the letter to Santa Claus
and say, hey members, all the chiropractors or the neurologists or the auto
body shop owners or whatever, what's important to you?
What would give you the most value in this organization?
What are the things that we do that we could get rid of that provide no value whatsoever that could
(33:59):
make things simpler and easier and and and if
you just take the advice of your members and you do what
most of them want to do business is super
easy and they're really happy what happens though is
members try to or boards or leadership teams try to figure out for themselves
which is the equivalent of mom and dad trying to guess what johnny white might
(34:21):
want and if they just asked johnny what he want and bought johnny what he wants
johnny would have been happy Yeah, well, I mean, I...
Couldn't agree more. It is simple, but not easy, right?
Oh, so here's the system that makes it easy is every six months,
twice a year, we send out a survey to all of our employees or to all of our customers.
(34:41):
If it's to our customers, we say on a scale of one to 10, how enthusiastically
would you recommend our brand to a friend?
And then on the thank you page, we say, thanks very much for your rating.
What's one thing we can do to have you refer us even more?
With our employees, we say, thanks for, you know, on a scale of one to 10,
how enthusiastically would you recommend this as a place to work?
And then we say, what's one thing we can do that would make this an even better place to work?
(35:04):
So we use that net promoter score survey with what's the one thing we can do letter to Santa Claus.
The other thing I do is every other, so every other survey, what in six months,
let's say January, I do the, what's one thing we can do in July.
I'll say, what's one thing we can do that doesn't cost money.
January. What's one thing we can do July. One thing we can do that It doesn't cost money.
(35:25):
It's incredible. The ideas that come from a board or from members of things
that we can do that will make them really happy that actually are free,
but we end up trying to reinvent the wheel all the time.
So it's actually quite simple if you put that system in place.
And if you listen. I love that.
Well, yeah. I mean, it's amazing how, you know, what, what good effective listening
(35:46):
when you're, when you're genuine about hearing and wanting to hear people's
perspectives, even if they differ from your own, because that's going to create a better environment.
Well, and I'm, I'm, I'm not the fly trying to get out the window.
Like if I'm going to try to figure it out for myself all the time,
I'm banging my head on the window.
But if I just stop and I ask everybody what they're like, Oh,
go this way. I'm like, Oh shit, I'll go that way. Like it's easy.
So I'm actually, I'm taking the cheat sheets.
(36:08):
Like I'm actually as a leader of companies.
Making it easier for myself versus trying to be the smart. And it's probably
because I was not the smart person in school.
I really struggled. I got a GPA of 2.3. I just found out the other day, my wife got a five GPA.
I didn't even know you could get over a four. I had no idea you could get over
(36:29):
a four, but I never got an A on anything in my life.
So for me, it was always about minimum viable, everything, get it done and get it out the door.
I used to say in university five, 5-0 and go like, give me 50% and I'm done.
I actually wrote on an exam one time, if you give me a D minus and I pass this
course, I promise to never take another economics course as long as I live. And he gave me a D minus.
(36:52):
So, and I switched majors. I think that's what most leaders try to do is they
try to be smart. They try to work hard.
What I try to do is the cheat sheets of just try to take the path of least resistance,
like water going down the hill.
I'll just follow the easiest path versus try to cut a new path.
Let me turn this on its head because you've given us really good ways to develop
(37:18):
leadership and culture.
What would you say would be, if you had a few off the top of your head, culture killers?
What things do people really need to avoid that you know will undermine a good
organization and a good culture? I'll give you two things.
If you went to a doctor right now and the doctor said, Hey, Brian,
you've a tumor, you know, in your chest, how long would you leave that tumor in?
(37:46):
You'd be like, get that sucker out. Can we go in this afternoon?
Yesterday, please. Yesterday, right? Get it out.
So the cultural cancers in your organization are the negative grumpy employees,
the employees that aren't delivering results, the people that are arguing with
everything, the people that nobody liked.
Gosh, even the smokers that are showing up and they're just unhealthy.
I get rid of all the cultural cancers in my organization.
(38:08):
That's number one, because what kills culture is a cancer.
I listened to grandmother on
this one. Grandmother told us that one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
When you have one cultural cancer in your organization, it kills everyone.
So fire them all. Get rid of them. Super simple.
By the way, you often don't even have to rehire any of those people because
(38:28):
they weren't doing much anyway.
So now you've got more net profits sitting around that you can actually pay the better people more.
Second thing is I think of all my employees in kind of the simple rating system.
Them. My A players are racehorses.
My B players are the workhorses. The C players should go to the glue factory.
(38:49):
We often spend too much time as a leader on our bad people, underperforming
people, coaching them, trying to move them up.
But what's happening is all the time we're spending with our Cs,
we could have been spending with our As and our Bs.
Imagine if we were coaching and developing and listening to and leading our A players.
Imagine if we were spending hours a week caring about and working with our A
(39:13):
players, the organization goes to the moon.
But because most leaders are spending time with our underperformers,
like a teacher always having to tutor and mentor the underperforming kid.
Meanwhile, the A player could have been world class if we gave them any attention whatsoever.
We've got it all backwards. So those are the two big cultural cancers that I think of. We love that.
(39:34):
With what time we have left, because you and I could continue down a lot of
these rabbit holes, I think for several hours, But if our listeners or your listeners or viewers,
if they want a part two, why don't we ask them to drop in the comments or send
you an email that they'd like a part two? Because we could go for another couple hours for sure.
If we'll let's leave it up to them. If they want a part two,
(39:54):
you and I can maybe look to do it. And if they don't want a part two,
nobody will comment. Nobody will email.
I'm with you there. Consider that done. on any kind of parting thoughts that
in terms of things that we didn't cover anything that's impacted you recently
that you really want the community to hear about yeah has anyone ever in the
middle of an interview stood up,
(40:16):
Probably not.
So three weeks ago, one of my closest friends of 17 years passed away.
His name is John Rulon. He's the author of this book, Giftology.
And when you just asked, is there anything that's happened that's really impacted me?
For about six or seven years, every media interview that I've done,
(40:39):
I've usually finished by saying none of this actually matters.
That running a business is merely what we do to make money.
It's not what matters. At the end of the day, we're all going to end up as a
kebab. We're all going to end up as meat on a stick.
And what really matters is our friends and our family, enjoying our bucket list
lifestyle, doing stuff that matters, being a good human.
(41:00):
And John Rulon passing away at 44 years old, leaving four girls between the age of four and 13.
The lesson that I learned from him is that life is a gift.
We are a gift to each other and we
need to as he used to say we need to love on our friends
and our family and our customers and our suppliers more than we do we need to
(41:22):
go back to our customers and their suppliers and our partners and our members
and say thank you show gratitude praise them for living and exhibiting the core
values we need to send them gifts to tell them we're thinking about them and
i think if we can remember that and kind of honor john ruling and i would ask
everyone who's listening to go and grab the book giftology.
In fact, like instead of buying a copy for you, go buy 10 copies,
(41:44):
read one, give nine away. And when you're finished reading your one, give that one away.
Because I think the butterfly effect of loving on each other and remembering
that none of this stuff actually matters.
We'll build better organizations, better associations, better humans.
And I think that's really what, what matters.
So glad you mentioned that. I know John's had an impact on my life.
(42:05):
I know he's made a tremendous impact on many people in my industry.
And yeah, I mean, I'm so saddened by his loss,
but to your point, he was a gift and he gives us that framework now that we
all have the opportunity to go out and be gifts to others and let people know
that they are a gift as well. So I appreciate that.
(42:27):
Yeah, I guess we can wrap it up. If people want to get a hold of you and either
sign up or just Just reach out to you because I know that you can help people in a lot of ways.
That would be the preferred way for somebody to get a hold of you.
So my main website that has all of the information on my coaching,
my speaking, my six books, the COO Alliance, my course, they just go to CameronHerald.com
(42:49):
and it's H-E-R-O-L-D.com.
That has all the information there. And then all my books are on Amazon, Audible, and iTunes.
My podcast, Second Command, anywhere you listen to podcasts,
Spotify and Apple. So, yeah, they'll find it there.
Awesome. Well, Cameron, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for making time.
And I think I'm going to put a little asterisk by this and say,
(43:11):
hopefully there will be a part two.
I imagine we have some more good things to talk about in the future. So I appreciate it.
Happy to. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Music.
(43:32):
The information provided in this podcast is not intended as specific tax or
legal advice and may not be relied upon for purposes of avoiding any federal tax penalties.
The Haney Company, its employees and representatives are not authorized to give tax or legal advice.
Individuals are encouraged to seek advice from their own tax or legal counsel.
Individuals involved in the estate planning process should work with an estate
planning team, including their own personal legal or tax counsel.
(43:54):
The information provided here does not constitute personal financial advice,
but is meant as the conveyance of information for educational purposes only.
All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss.
Past performance is not indicatory of future returns. Guarantees are backed
by the claims-paying ability of the insurer.
Brian Heaney is a registered representative and an investment advisory representative
of Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC.
Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC is not affiliated with the Heaney Company.
(44:17):
Security is offered through Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC, member FINRA SIPC.
Advisory services offered through Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC, a U.S.
SEC registered investment advisor.
You're listening to the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
No nonsense, just a crazy mix of life, business, the funny, and of course,
we're going to talk about your money.
But just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. What could go wrong?
Music.
All right, welcome to another episode of the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
(00:27):
I am extremely Extremely excited today for a guest that we've,
you know, as I was fanboying out earlier, our paths have crossed and you've
had a major instrumental impact on our practice.
Cameron Herald himself, the CEO Whisperer. Thanks for joining me today.
I appreciate it. Of course, Brian. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
(00:49):
So most of the time the guests stumble
out the gate because the first four questions are the hardest ever.
So I figured we'd get them out of the way early and then the rest is usually pretty easy from there.
So let's start with what is the top place on your bucket list that you want
to visit but haven't visited yet?
Wow, this is almost a trick question. So my
(01:12):
wife and I sold everything three years ago and we've been global
nomads for the last three years we've been to 54 countries
in the last three years and this october we're
going to be crossing off one of my bucket lists that's been there for 30 some
years when i was back in 1991 i was backpacking around the world i heard a friend
went to vietnam and i was like whoa that would be so cool and he went to lao
(01:35):
i'm like that would be so cool and i and i never got back to that region of
southeast asia to to actually go and explore it.
And this October, my wife and I go to Laos and Vietnam.
So that's going to be one that we're crossing off.
And we actually have bucket lists. If you want to link them in the show notes,
my wife and I publish our bucket lists and we share them with the world to inspire
(01:55):
people just to live what we're calling our bucket list life.
I love it. Absolutely. No, I love sharing that. And I think it's so important.
I mean, you don't tend to do the things if you don't make the plans to do them.
So I live by a bucket list myself.
All right. That was a good start. All right. Only gets worse from here.
(02:16):
This one's a little bit more tricky. What food will you not eat under any circumstance?
What food? Well, I really don't like eggplant, but once in a while,
it's good. Under any circumstance, is there a food that I will not eat?
Man, again, because I'm so well-traveled. I've been to 75 countries, 76 countries.
(02:39):
Sea urchin, I've had it a couple of times, and it really kind of gags me and
doesn't taste super good.
So I'd have to put sea urchin down there. It's pretty high up. But I think, again,
because we're such global nomads and I've been traveling the world for
years i'm pretty open to most but that
sea urchin is one oh and then in india they
have this thing called creatures which are like these bugs that
(03:01):
they serve with like a goat milk that's pretty
disgusting it's like it's like these bugs in milk
like you would eat like cereal it's pretty gross so i'm really glad you mentioned
that second line because that i draw the line at insects a hundred percent will
not i don't care if you coat it with chocolate oh i've I've had great grasshoppers
(03:22):
and crickets and ant eggs and like all that stuff's been pretty good.
But yeah, the creatures, the bugs in milk, I'm pretty much a hard pass.
All right. You and me both. All right. Very good.
Now we're going to tap into your creative side.
If you could start a band, what would the name of your band be? Wow.
(03:44):
It would be closing down because I'm really bad at anything creative.
It'd be like, it'd be our last show. The band would be called The Last Show.
Yeah, that would probably be mine. I'm just so not inclined to,
I love music. I just went to two dead shows in Vegas.
Yeah, just not, I'm so left brain, not creative. I love and appreciate it,
(04:06):
but yeah, mine would be The Last Show.
I like that. Yeah, it's probably better than some of the ones I've kicked around for myself.
So we'll take it.
Besides this show, of course, which everybody loves, and your own Shore as well,
which I want to make sure we will plug.
The Second in Command podcast is fantastic.
(04:27):
Are there any other podcasts that you like that have had an impact on your life
that you would want to recommend to somebody else that they check out?
Well, it's interesting. So there's the typical business podcast that I really like.
So I like My First Million with Sam Parr and Sean Puri. I really love the All
In podcast with the guys from the Bay Area, because they're just talking about
(04:50):
really cool issues around business and government and AI.
And that's kind of intriguing. I'm going to their conference later on this fall.
But my wife and I are listening to a bunch of stuff around biohacking, so around health.
We're listening to stuff around sexuality, polarity.
So I listen to a bunch of stuff on that. So we're kind of going outside of the
(05:12):
business world and listening. In fact, like the podcast that I was listening
to this morning, I'll just read you the name of the show.
Because I think it's interesting, you know, at the end of the day,
none of this stuff matters, right?
Like the stuff that we are sitting and thinking about and worrying about constantly,
at the end of the day, we die.
You know, we talked about a really close friend of ours, John Rulon,
(05:33):
who passed away recently, and I'd rather be thinking about other issues. shoes.
So we listened to the Health Optimization Podcast with Tim Gray.
We actually went to his conference and we listened to one called Ignite Intimacy,
listened to one called Sex with Emily, another one called Upgrade Human,
Dave Asprey. I used to coach Dave.
The one I was listening to this morning is The Tantric Life with Layla Martin.
We actually went to a conference with her over in Turkey.
(05:55):
So we're doing a lot of work around the rest of our life to stay very balanced.
And that's probably because we're plugged into a very European and global audience
now, now whereas in North America like if you and I met on the street you know
I would say to you what do you do and you would probably answer with oh I build
a wealth management firm and I run a podcast.
(06:16):
When when you're in Europe and someone asks you what do
you do that's not how they answer in fact
if you answer with what you do to make money they kind of go no I didn't like
they almost stop you like that's not even what they meant they're like what
do you do like what are you exploring what are you learning what are you having
fun with like I don't give a shit what you do to make money So I think that's
probably why we're kind of unplugging a little bit from the business world more
(06:38):
and thinking about a more holistic world in life.
I love that. And yeah, I mean, any and all of those are absolutely, I think, vital.
You know, my wife actually is a certified nutrition coach, and we love all things
natural medicine, healing, health, mind, body.
(06:59):
And yeah, I mean, all of the things that, again, you know, we don't live to work. We work to live.
Yeah, I think North Americans need that reminder more and more.
Completely agree. I completely agree.
All right. That was a great first four. And now we can start to have some fun.
And like I said before, I know I am very fortunate that our paths have crossed.
(07:21):
But outside of what anyone can read and find you online,
I'd really love to hear you tell us, what are the highlights of your professional
journey so far that have been the most meaningful to you? How would you tell your story?
Maybe not in the way that somebody would Google you and learn about you? Wow, great question.
(07:45):
So I'll kind of go through a little bit of a timeline. So I would say that the
most meaningful, from the time that I was seven years old until the time that I was about 16 or 17,
I ran about 15 different little small business ventures.
Some of them lasted a day, some of them lasted three or four weeks,
some of them lasted a summer.
(08:06):
But it's a lot and I could repeat a dozen
of them off the top of my head really quickly the lessons that
I learned from those little businesses because I
was doing it and I was experiencing it and I
was struggling with it and I was feeling the successes I really internalized
the lessons and it was like my mom and dad weren't out there running my lemonade
(08:28):
stand I was out there running my lemonade stand so I really learned so much
from the act of doing I think that was a very meaningful part of my business career was all,
and I did a talk that's been on the main TED website for 13 years now, or 14 years,
called Let's Raise Kids to be Entrepreneurs.
And it was about the lessons that I learned from my entrepreneurial journey.
(08:48):
So that was very meaningful.
The second one was when I was in second year university.
I found a flyer on the floor and I went to throw it out and it said,
earn $10,000 and run your own business.
And I was like, whoa, let me read that before I throw that out.
You know, that was 1986, $10,000 was a lot of money in 1986.
That's probably the equivalent of, you know, make $40,000 today. Right.
(09:12):
So, you know, imagine being in university second year and you can make 40 grand.
That was just, and in Canada when tuition was only, you know,
it's only 5,000 a year today.
So I was making eight times what my tuition was in a summer.
That was pretty intriguing. And I got involved in a group called College Pro
Painters, which went on to become the largest residential house painting company on the planet.
(09:33):
I was a very successful franchisee for them for three years,
but then I got to work at the head office level for four years where I was recruiting,
hiring, training, and coaching 120 of their franchisees.
And that was very powerful for me because at a very young age,
like 24, 25, I was getting close to a hundred hours training on situational
(09:56):
leadership, close to a hundred hours on coaching, close to a hundred hours on interviewing.
Like I got deep, deep leadership skill training on about 10 or 12 core skills
that most entrepreneurs and managers haven't even bumped into.
You know, maybe they've learned from experience, but I had, you know,
coaches and workbooks and trainers and role practicing and video sessions and
(10:17):
really in-depth leadership training that was very powerful. So that was very meaningful.
You know, I got to hire, at the time it wasn't meaningful. I hired Kimball Musk,
who, you know, Elon's younger brother worked for me in 1993.
His cousin, Peter Rive, who went on to build SolarCity worked for me.
At the time, they were just great franchisees, but that turned out to be meaningful
because of some of those relationships later in life.
(10:40):
And then so college pro was successful. I would call it my real world MBA.
And then I think the next meaningful one, you know, I built a private currency company. It was cool.
Building 1-800-GOT-JUNK for sure was meaningful, right? Like we built the number
two company in Canada to work for.
I was the COO and took them from 2 million to 106 million in six years.
(11:01):
That was certainly meaningful. Getting on Oprah, like all the awards,
that was meaningful. And then I guess lastly, I've now been paid to speak to
audiences of entrepreneurial groups in 29 countries and on every single continent.
So three years ago, I got paid to speak in Antarctica to a group of entrepreneurs.
So I've now literally been paid to speak on all seven continents in 27 countries.
(11:22):
That's kind of meaningful in a way that I've been able to share my ideas with
the world and help all these entrepreneurs because my core purpose is to help
entrepreneurs make their dreams happen.
Were there penguins involved in that one? I hope so. There was a lot of penguins on that one.
One day we saw somewhere between 300 and 400,000 penguins and we got to walk through them.
Yeah, penguins shit and piss a lot, though. It's disgusting the smell of 300,000 penguins.
(11:47):
Well, maybe one day I'll find out in person, but I'll take your word for it for now.
Well, thank you for sharing that. And again, I know from personal firsthand
experience, the impact that you do have on a regular basis.
And I would like to...
I'd like to unpack some of the, you know, you've written a bunch of really great
(12:09):
books, many of which are probably sitting right here on the shelf next to me in my office.
But the one that I know had so much impact on my practice, my professional life was Vivid Vision.
But I'd like to kind of talk about that because it's very, you know,
it's written, as you were just describing, for a very entrepreneurial kind of
(12:32):
focus. And yet, I feel like it has application regardless of the type of organization.
I think there's application maybe for someone in the association or nonprofit space.
So can you start there and talk about how you would take Vivid Vision into that
arena and still have it be meaningful and impactful?
(12:52):
Sure. And I know the association space. I mean, I was involved in a number of
different trade associations over the years as a member. remember I've been
a speaker at the ASAE, which is the American Society for Association Executives.
I spoke at their Canadian conference in Halifax, gosh, around 10 years ago.
I know a bunch of people that are in and around the industry.
I've coached a group called the MCI Global that kind of advises lots of the
(13:13):
trade association does works for. So I know this space.
A trade association effectively is a business. They have a mission.
They have a core purpose. They have core values.
They're trying to do something for their members. Their customers are really
their members. So you can kind of see an association like a business.
It has a budget, it has people, it has timelines, it's got goals.
(13:33):
The idea with a vivid vision, if I can unpack it, it becomes a four or five
page written description of what your business or association looks like,
acts like, and feels like three years in the future.
So if I was an associate, let's say I was the association of,
you know, chiropractors and I was going to craft a four page description of
(13:53):
what the association of chiropractors looked like in the future.
I would have a couple of paragraphs about our members. I'd have a couple of
paragraphs around how we raise money.
I'd have a couple of paragraphs around our conferences, how we communicate with
members, how we deal with the media, the benefits people get,
how our internal employees work, maybe how we learn from other associations.
(14:15):
I would describe the culture, the meeting rhythms, our dashboards.
I'd really talk about every aspect of the business as if I was walking around
the association and describing everything I could see.
And I would then bring that, you know, rough draft. I would have a copywriter
polish it, or I'd push it through a couple rounds of chat GPT with some good prompts.
And I'd punch out this really good, clear description that I could add some
(14:41):
graphic design elements so it feels like the association.
And I would share it with everyone. I'd share it with my customers,
my suppliers, my employees, my partners, the members, so that everybody could
see what the board of the trade association could see or what the CEO or chairman
of the association could see.
And that way, everybody is now completely aligned and pulling in that same direction.
(15:02):
So the ideas from the members become aligned with the vision.
The ideas from the board become aligned with the vision. Because right now,
people can have lots of ideas.
But if we don't know where we're going, any road will take us there,
right? That was the Cheshire Cat and Alice in Wonderland.
And the problem with ideas is unless they're aligned line with a vision,
the ideas can pull us in every different direction.
(15:24):
It's like a clock, right? If you think that the center of the clock,
we can have ideas pulling us in 12 different directions, or we can have everybody
pulling towards the number 12.
No, and I really, I mean, that resonated so well with us, with our practice.
It was part of what I think galvanized a rebrand for us that led to some great success.
(15:46):
But it was because...
It was, yeah, it was vision that everybody could buy into and then invest in.
And I think what you were just describing landed to me as a way to get all of
these disparate parties that all should have,
you know, the obvious connection of being a part of the organization to take
(16:07):
it a step further and to invest in the organization's vision and see how they're connected to it,
you know, manifesting three years down the road.
How would you do that with a board of directors yeah
interesting so the board of directors really would have to kind of
craft it together and it's partially dependent and this is one of the frustrations
(16:28):
i have with boards or with non-profit groups is they often transition leadership
every year so i would really culturally first get the leadership team of the
association to say say, regardless of who's on the board,
we will always have a three-year vivid vision.
We will not change that three-year vivid vision until the end of the three years.
(16:51):
So if you're the board in the first year, you're going to be in charge of crafting
the vivid vision and starting to execute it.
If you're the board in the second year, you are just executing against the one
that was written the year before.
If you're the board in the third year, you're the one that's executing the one.
And then at the end of your three years, you're writing the next three-year
one. So you prevent two of those three years from redoing the vision.
(17:12):
Because if every year you change the vision, it's like this,
you get whiplash, it goes nowhere.
It's the groups that are very aligned with core purpose, with core values,
with mission, with the vision.
If they continue to drive towards that, that's where scale happens.
And I think that's what often happens with the nonprofits or associations is
(17:32):
the new leadership team comes in and they have a different vision.
But what happens is you just zigzag you
know you're like tacking on a boat it just takes you forever to to go in the
direction you want to go in i love that it's challenging that doesn't go without
challenge so you know you really have to sell them on the benefit of that right
(17:52):
so i always say sell them don't tell them so if you sell them on the bit on
the reason this is powerful.
That's why they can then go in that direction and it you know what you're describing
there's There's a lot of people in the association leadership space that talk
about the concept of foresight.
And I think what you're sharing connects with that very, very strategically because, yeah, it does.
(18:18):
It helps get all of those parties together.
It helps create continuity from a leadership standpoint versus a scenario where
you don't have that kind of framework that everybody can now see where their place is.
And, you know, it's natural for boards to want to come in and make their impact
if in the absence of, of maybe something that would allow them to be more effective.
(18:41):
And so, I mean, I think what, what board members have to ask themselves is, is my vision.
More important than the health of the organization or the association.
And if it is, you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons, right?
If you're so married to the fact that you just want to do something that you
(19:03):
want to do, that isn't necessarily the best thing for the organization.
So I think that's where the really kind of introspective, emotionally intelligent
leaders will come in and say, you know what, I'm good with just executing for
the the next couple of years, because I can actually make a big dent in this organization,
continuing to drive for that period of time towards that, which is by the way, very COO, right?
(19:30):
Most, I run an organization called the COO Alliance, which is like a trade association.
For COOs. There's no entrepreneurs allowed.
It's only second in commands. And we have second in commands from 17 countries.
Countries, there's not a single COO that's in our COO alliance who sets the
vision for their company.
They come in and they say, CEO, show me the vision of where we're going and
(19:54):
then move to the side and let me figure out how to get you there.
There's not a general contractor in the world that comes into a home and says,
let me design a dream home and build it for you.
The homeowner is like, no, no, this is what I want my dream home to look like.
Design that, right? Right. The homeowner has the vision.
And I think that's where boards have to be careful is, is our job to be so kind
(20:18):
of focused on vision or is it to be focused on the good and the health of the
organization we're building and the members that are in it?
I completely agree. And you mentioned really, really important skill sets for COOs.
Would you have maybe like a top three crucial skills that you have found in
that space that are really instrumental in the difference between a healthy
(20:43):
organization or maybe one that's not as healthy? Yeah, I do.
So in fact, I launched a course three years ago called Invest in Your Leaders.
It's an an online leadership course that has the 12 core leadership skills that
I believe not only every COO, but anyone who manages and leads people need to be good at.
So this is like anybody on a board of an association, anyone running a business,
(21:04):
any vice president or C-level or manager or director.
And the skills, the core skills, I'll even go from the 12 down to six.
Everyone who manages people needs to be really good at these skills.
And most have had no training, situational leadership and
we can talk about anything if you'd like to so situational leadership coaching delegation
project management time management
(21:27):
and one-on-one meetings everyone who
leads people if they're not good at those things they're they're managing and
overseeing people they're holding them accountable which you don't need to do
they're constantly herding cats they're frustrated with projects they're always
following up on deliverables because they don't have the proper skill sets to
make those happen, right?
(21:49):
So if they're good at those six skills, you can almost flip the org chart upside
down where now, and it's like a board of an association shouldn't be telling members what to do.
The board of the association is there to support members.
It's there to help members. It's there to align members. It's there to inspire members.
So really the CEO is at the bottom supporting the managers who are supporting
(22:11):
the members who are supporting the vision of the organization,
and you almost like an inverted pyramid, it's teaching leaders and managers
those skills that I'm so kind of focused on.
No, I love that. I think ones that I know have stood out maybe more than others. It's interesting.
There's a lot of, I think, people in leadership positions that might recognize
(22:32):
and acknowledge their project management skills may not be as up to snuff in certain ways,
especially those that tend to be more drivers and kind of in,
I don't know, maybe something akin to like a sales type of mentality.
They don't have the ability to kind of sit down and
and you know create a process or compartmentalize and i
(22:53):
also love the situational leadership as well because i
think that that's critical let me let me speak to situational leadership
but let me also speak to something else which is there's not very many entrepreneurial
managers or even really any leaders in most companies that have ever had the
training the formal training on these skills most have learned by doing so i
(23:14):
was interviewing or i I was coaching a CEO about six months ago.
And I said to the CEO, how much training have you ever had on doing an interview,
right, on interviewing potential hires?
And he said, well, nothing formal. I've read a couple books and I've interviewed
100 people, so I know how to do it. I said, maybe you've done it wrong every single time.
And he went, whoa, I didn't know that.
(23:37):
Like if you asked me five years ago, do I know how to swing a bat in baseball?
I would have said yes, until all of a sudden I was at my kid's baseball practice.
I'm Canadian, so we didn't know this, but your back elbow is supposed to be up high.
I didn't know that. I was 50 years old. Nobody ever, so I really didn't know
how to swing a bat properly.
I had done it wrong for 50 years.
(23:58):
So when you get the proper training, business gets difficult.
And I think for most leaders, they're like a fly. You know, you've seen a fly
trying to get out the window and it keeps banging its head on the window and
the fly ends up dead on the windowsill.
That's because most leaders are trying to work hard doing
what they've only ever done if you step back and
you get some training you realize there's a door over here and you just turn
and go out the door and you're home free and i think that's the the case for
(24:23):
why it's important to grow our people it's even why i called my course invest
in your leaders is it's about investing in them because that's where you're
going to get the multiplication of the results Well,
so I want to pivot on this point,
because one thing that I know has been a major topic across certainly the association
(24:43):
space, but I don't even think it's unique to any one type of industry,
for-profit or nonprofit,
but kind of the workforce environment that we're in today. Would you say...
We are in a unique environment today that maybe is new.
Is it the same as it has been? A lot of people are trying to say,
(25:03):
you know, this digital distributive workforce, it's unique and,
you know, we've never had anything like it.
But I don't know. There are other people that I think that there are some fundamental
elements of workforce development and culture building that are time tested.
And this is what's interesting around the skills that I gave you is every single
one of those skills does not change,
(25:24):
even though we're now remote teams or hybrid teams or global teams.
Like I'm speaking to you over wifi on a laptop.
I'm in a different country than you're in and it doesn't matter.
But in terms of situational leadership, if I'm going to lead you on something,
I would apply it exactly the same over video or in person.
If I was coaching you, it would be the same over video or in person.
If I'm delegating a project to you or an initiative, I would be delegating following the systems.
(25:47):
Like those six skills that I gave you are identical identical, and they don't change.
What has really changed because of the digital world is leveraging the tech stack.
You know, we're no longer using paper-based day timers. You know,
I'm not using a telephone, I'm using video.
We have asynchronous communication, we can use digital whiteboards,
but the act of leading people and influencing people and growing people,
(26:12):
none of that's really changed.
You know, maybe I'm not going to have you learn by reading a book,
I might have you learn by reading a PDF on a website and by watching some videos,
but training is training. Coaching is coaching. Delegation is delegation.
Situational leadership. That's probably why I've been able to do what I do for
35 years is because the niche that I'm world class at is around the area of
(26:35):
building and developing people and leaders.
And I didn't become an expert back in the nineties on marketing because everything
I learned about marketing in the mid nineties would have been dead by now. Right. Yeah.
Well, and so, oh, sorry,
there's a second part to that is I think there's some
generational differences right now around people that we have to remember that
(26:57):
the incentives and the satisfiers for Gen Z and the second half of Gen Y is
very different than the first half of Gen Y and Gen X and the baby boomers, right?
Baby boomers came to work for a company for 15 years.
Gen X came to work for a company for five to 10 years. Gen Y came to work for
(27:19):
a company for two to five years.
Gen Z is like six months to two years max.
And it's because the baby boomer parents are saying, don't go work there for
15 years, hop around, work up the ladder, right?
Why would you stay like, so we're training people to do that.
And then now we have the ability to work from anywhere, collaborate.
So the, The needs of the people is different.
(27:41):
What satisfies them is different, but intrinsically leading them is the same way.
Well, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned the generational piece.
I was just reading an article in the Washington Post today talking about the
first time, I guess, in recorded human history that we have five major generations in the workforce.
And just to your point, how challenging it is to kind of, I guess,
(28:06):
maybe create a culture where you're honoring, recognizing,
acknowledging, and creating a space where every generation can be their best selves.
Because that's, you know, it's different for everybody. Well,
and so the example I always go back to, and it's funny, I keep referencing this
in so many different situations, and it's the book, Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.
(28:27):
You know, Brian, you and I are men, or I guess we have male parts,
whatever we're supposed to call it these days. We are men.
We are not hairy versions of women. We see the world differently.
We perceive the world differently. We solve problems. Like women and men just
see and perceive things very differently from each other.
Generations see and perceive things very differently from each
other so the key is to make sure that you understand them
(28:51):
you understand what satisfies them you understand their needs you understand
the way that they're perceiving things and you understand the relative strengths
and weaknesses they both have so as an example one of our members of our coo
alliance he's only 22 years old he's running a hundred person company that he's
built from three people to a hundred and he's He's their CFO.
He is incredible on the automation and optimization of processes and integrating things using Zapier.
(29:17):
So he's literally automating every process.
Now, he doesn't necessarily have the leadership wisdom that a baby boomer who's,
you know, 65 might have somebody who's been leading people for 40 years has
been running teams, but the baby boomer can teach the 22 year old about the leadership wisdom.
System the 22 year old can teach the 65 year
(29:37):
old about integration in the tech stack if they
can learn about their relative strengths and weaknesses and join
hands like a man and a woman can actually learn to
to men are from mars women are from venus we can learn to speak with each other
collaborate together and build a very strong team and i think that's one of
the skills of coos is how do we build teams how do we get people to collaborate
(29:59):
how do we get people to think so one of the key skills I'm working with people
with on right now. Do you watch any American football?
Of course. Favorite football team? Well, I'm promotion DC, so it's the Commanders.
All right, so we got the Commanders. So on the Commanders, you got their football
team, the Commanders. You have the offensive team. You've got the defensive
team. You have the special teams.
For the wide receiver, which is his most important team?
(30:24):
Offense. Are you sure? I would say so.
What team does he play for? But I'm open to debate. What team does he play for?
Oh, the Commanders. That's his most important team. Okay.
Now, what happens in companies is when you're running a functional area,
if you're the head of marketing, the VP of marketing or the chief marketing
(30:44):
officer tends to think that marketing is their most important business.
Not at all. That's your second team. Your first team is the company.
So even at 1-800-GOT-JUNK, when we were building our leadership team,
I got them to think about the leadership team as the first team and your functional
area was your second team.
So when leaders can actually show up remembering
(31:04):
that we're debating things we're working together we're collaborating
we're communicating for the good of the organization because when
that wide receiver is going out onto the field he's high-fiving
the defense he's cheering on the defense he's telling the defense where they
just got beat and how to and then when the defense is coming out like they're
in it together right they're not just myopically focused on their part of the
(31:27):
greater team and i think that's what i'm trying to get leaders to recognize too is that
our job is to build healthy debate for the good of the organization,
to argue to build the core values, to drive hard towards the overall vivid vision
and to fight for your business area needs, maybe never, right?
Because what you're really fighting for is the good of the goals,
(31:47):
the vivid vision, the core values and the core purpose.
Well, and I think what you... And sorry, and that should be the same for every
trade association, right?
What we're trying to do is to build the vivid vision for the organization,
not whatever you personally believe because you're on the board for this particular part of time.
Like this is a 50-year organization or 100-year organization.
We're supposed to be building some legacy that is helping the good of our members,
(32:11):
that kind of a thought process, I guess. Sorry, go ahead.
Well, no, what you described, that touched on, I think, a really critical thing
that That I think in many respects is either missing or in development,
but maybe not as actively prominent as it should be across organizations for
profit and nonprofit alike.
(32:32):
And that's maybe a culture of listening and empathy that leads to that kind
of collaboration where you're inviting these generations to be present and to
provide their feedback. back.
I don't know that many organizations do as good of a job as I think they could
at allowing people to provide their perspective, their framework in a manner
(32:53):
that they feel heard and they feel like they're contributing to that overall goal.
How do you see that? And how would you, I guess, encourage it?
Remember when you were five years old and you wrote a letter to Santa Claus?
I do. Dear Santa, you know, I would like this train and this model toy or whatever.
And you walk down to the mailbox with your mom and you're holding hands and
(33:14):
you put the letter into the mailbox for Santa and you keep your fingers crossed.
And six weeks later, oh my gosh, Santa read my letter. It's like,
no, Brian, mom read your letter. Like Santa doesn't exist.
But what mom wanted to do is she kind of asked Brian in this tricky way,
what's important to you. And then she just bought you what was important to you.
And it's easy when you're building a business or an organization or an association,
(33:35):
the leadership team doesn't have to have the answers for what to build.
What they have to do is ask all the members to write the letter to Santa Claus
and say, hey members, all the chiropractors or the neurologists or the auto
body shop owners or whatever, what's important to you?
What would give you the most value in this organization?
What are the things that we do that we could get rid of that provide no value whatsoever that could
(33:59):
make things simpler and easier and and and if
you just take the advice of your members and you do what
most of them want to do business is super
easy and they're really happy what happens though is
members try to or boards or leadership teams try to figure out for themselves
which is the equivalent of mom and dad trying to guess what johnny white might
(34:21):
want and if they just asked johnny what he want and bought johnny what he wants
johnny would have been happy Yeah, well, I mean, I...
Couldn't agree more. It is simple, but not easy, right?
Oh, so here's the system that makes it easy is every six months,
twice a year, we send out a survey to all of our employees or to all of our customers.
(34:41):
If it's to our customers, we say on a scale of one to 10, how enthusiastically
would you recommend our brand to a friend?
And then on the thank you page, we say, thanks very much for your rating.
What's one thing we can do to have you refer us even more?
With our employees, we say, thanks for, you know, on a scale of one to 10,
how enthusiastically would you recommend this as a place to work?
And then we say, what's one thing we can do that would make this an even better place to work?
(35:04):
So we use that net promoter score survey with what's the one thing we can do letter to Santa Claus.
The other thing I do is every other, so every other survey, what in six months,
let's say January, I do the, what's one thing we can do in July.
I'll say, what's one thing we can do that doesn't cost money.
January. What's one thing we can do July. One thing we can do that It doesn't cost money.
(35:25):
It's incredible. The ideas that come from a board or from members of things
that we can do that will make them really happy that actually are free,
but we end up trying to reinvent the wheel all the time.
So it's actually quite simple if you put that system in place.
And if you listen. I love that.
Well, yeah. I mean, it's amazing how, you know, what, what good effective listening
(35:46):
when you're, when you're genuine about hearing and wanting to hear people's
perspectives, even if they differ from your own, because that's going to create a better environment.
Well, and I'm, I'm, I'm not the fly trying to get out the window.
Like if I'm going to try to figure it out for myself all the time,
I'm banging my head on the window.
But if I just stop and I ask everybody what they're like, Oh,
go this way. I'm like, Oh shit, I'll go that way. Like it's easy.
So I'm actually, I'm taking the cheat sheets.
(36:08):
Like I'm actually as a leader of companies.
Making it easier for myself versus trying to be the smart. And it's probably
because I was not the smart person in school.
I really struggled. I got a GPA of 2.3. I just found out the other day, my wife got a five GPA.
I didn't even know you could get over a four. I had no idea you could get over
(36:29):
a four, but I never got an A on anything in my life.
So for me, it was always about minimum viable, everything, get it done and get it out the door.
I used to say in university five, 5-0 and go like, give me 50% and I'm done.
I actually wrote on an exam one time, if you give me a D minus and I pass this
course, I promise to never take another economics course as long as I live. And he gave me a D minus.
(36:52):
So, and I switched majors. I think that's what most leaders try to do is they
try to be smart. They try to work hard.
What I try to do is the cheat sheets of just try to take the path of least resistance,
like water going down the hill.
I'll just follow the easiest path versus try to cut a new path.
Let me turn this on its head because you've given us really good ways to develop
(37:18):
leadership and culture.
What would you say would be, if you had a few off the top of your head, culture killers?
What things do people really need to avoid that you know will undermine a good
organization and a good culture? I'll give you two things.
If you went to a doctor right now and the doctor said, Hey, Brian,
you've a tumor, you know, in your chest, how long would you leave that tumor in?
(37:46):
You'd be like, get that sucker out. Can we go in this afternoon?
Yesterday, please. Yesterday, right? Get it out.
So the cultural cancers in your organization are the negative grumpy employees,
the employees that aren't delivering results, the people that are arguing with
everything, the people that nobody liked.
Gosh, even the smokers that are showing up and they're just unhealthy.
I get rid of all the cultural cancers in my organization.
(38:08):
That's number one, because what kills culture is a cancer.
I listened to grandmother on
this one. Grandmother told us that one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
When you have one cultural cancer in your organization, it kills everyone.
So fire them all. Get rid of them. Super simple.
By the way, you often don't even have to rehire any of those people because
(38:28):
they weren't doing much anyway.
So now you've got more net profits sitting around that you can actually pay the better people more.
Second thing is I think of all my employees in kind of the simple rating system.
Them. My A players are racehorses.
My B players are the workhorses. The C players should go to the glue factory.
(38:49):
We often spend too much time as a leader on our bad people, underperforming
people, coaching them, trying to move them up.
But what's happening is all the time we're spending with our Cs,
we could have been spending with our As and our Bs.
Imagine if we were coaching and developing and listening to and leading our A players.
Imagine if we were spending hours a week caring about and working with our A
(39:13):
players, the organization goes to the moon.
But because most leaders are spending time with our underperformers,
like a teacher always having to tutor and mentor the underperforming kid.
Meanwhile, the A player could have been world class if we gave them any attention whatsoever.
We've got it all backwards. So those are the two big cultural cancers that I think of. We love that.
(39:34):
With what time we have left, because you and I could continue down a lot of
these rabbit holes, I think for several hours, But if our listeners or your listeners or viewers,
if they want a part two, why don't we ask them to drop in the comments or send
you an email that they'd like a part two? Because we could go for another couple hours for sure.
If we'll let's leave it up to them. If they want a part two,
(39:54):
you and I can maybe look to do it. And if they don't want a part two,
nobody will comment. Nobody will email.
I'm with you there. Consider that done. on any kind of parting thoughts that
in terms of things that we didn't cover anything that's impacted you recently
that you really want the community to hear about yeah has anyone ever in the
middle of an interview stood up,
(40:16):
Probably not.
So three weeks ago, one of my closest friends of 17 years passed away.
His name is John Rulon. He's the author of this book, Giftology.
And when you just asked, is there anything that's happened that's really impacted me?
For about six or seven years, every media interview that I've done,
(40:39):
I've usually finished by saying none of this actually matters.
That running a business is merely what we do to make money.
It's not what matters. At the end of the day, we're all going to end up as a
kebab. We're all going to end up as meat on a stick.
And what really matters is our friends and our family, enjoying our bucket list
lifestyle, doing stuff that matters, being a good human.
(41:00):
And John Rulon passing away at 44 years old, leaving four girls between the age of four and 13.
The lesson that I learned from him is that life is a gift.
We are a gift to each other and we
need to as he used to say we need to love on our friends
and our family and our customers and our suppliers more than we do we need to
(41:22):
go back to our customers and their suppliers and our partners and our members
and say thank you show gratitude praise them for living and exhibiting the core
values we need to send them gifts to tell them we're thinking about them and
i think if we can remember that and kind of honor john ruling and i would ask
everyone who's listening to go and grab the book giftology.
In fact, like instead of buying a copy for you, go buy 10 copies,
(41:44):
read one, give nine away. And when you're finished reading your one, give that one away.
Because I think the butterfly effect of loving on each other and remembering
that none of this stuff actually matters.
We'll build better organizations, better associations, better humans.
And I think that's really what, what matters.
So glad you mentioned that. I know John's had an impact on my life.
(42:05):
I know he's made a tremendous impact on many people in my industry.
And yeah, I mean, I'm so saddened by his loss,
but to your point, he was a gift and he gives us that framework now that we
all have the opportunity to go out and be gifts to others and let people know
that they are a gift as well. So I appreciate that.
(42:27):
Yeah, I guess we can wrap it up. If people want to get a hold of you and either
sign up or just Just reach out to you because I know that you can help people in a lot of ways.
That would be the preferred way for somebody to get a hold of you.
So my main website that has all of the information on my coaching,
my speaking, my six books, the COO Alliance, my course, they just go to CameronHerald.com
(42:49):
and it's H-E-R-O-L-D.com.
That has all the information there. And then all my books are on Amazon, Audible, and iTunes.
My podcast, Second Command, anywhere you listen to podcasts,
Spotify and Apple. So, yeah, they'll find it there.
Awesome. Well, Cameron, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for making time.
And I think I'm going to put a little asterisk by this and say,
(43:11):
hopefully there will be a part two.
I imagine we have some more good things to talk about in the future. So I appreciate it.
Happy to. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Music.
(43:32):
The information provided in this podcast is not intended as specific tax or
legal advice and may not be relied upon for purposes of avoiding any federal tax penalties.
The Haney Company, its employees and representatives are not authorized to give tax or legal advice.
Individuals are encouraged to seek advice from their own tax or legal counsel.
Individuals involved in the estate planning process should work with an estate
planning team, including their own personal legal or tax counsel.
(43:54):
The information provided here does not constitute personal financial advice,
but is meant as the conveyance of information for educational purposes only.
All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss.
Past performance is not indicatory of future returns. Guarantees are backed
by the claims-paying ability of the insurer.
Brian Heaney is a registered representative and an investment advisory representative
of Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC.
Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC is not affiliated with the Heaney Company.
(44:17):
Security is offered through Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC, member FINRA SIPC.
Advisory services offered through Dempsey Lord Smith, LLC, a U.S.
SEC registered investment advisor.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!