July 10, 2025 • 51 mins
In this inspiring episode, Dr. Sciarretta has a conversation with Royal Ramey, CEO and co-founder of The Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program (FFRP). Mr. Ramey shares the story of his journey from prison to firefighting by way of "fire camp." Upon his release, Mr. Ramey joined the Mojave Greens in their firefighting mission, and has since worked to train, inspire, and uplift formerly incarcerated people who are interested in the firefighting profession.
For those interested in supporting FFRP's mission, visit this link to make a tax-deductible donation of any amount.
To keep up with Mr. Ramey's journey, follow him on Instagram @royal.ramey. FFRP can be found on Instagram @ffrp_ca.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Hangout Podcast.
I'm your host, david Shoretta.
Come on in and hang out.
In this episode, I wasprivileged to have a
conversation with Royal Ramey.
Royal is the co-founder and CEOof FFRP, which stands for the
Forestry and Fire RecruitmentProgram, which stands for the
(00:28):
Forestry and Fire RecruitmentProgram.
Royal grew up in the SanFernando Valley in California
and, as he describes it, had achallenging upbringing, both in
the home as well as on thestreets.
Then that led to some poordecision-making and, ultimately,
his incarceration incarceration, as Royal describes.
He discovered this concept offire camp while incarcerated and
(00:55):
subsequently, after deciding tocommit to this training process
, which he describes in depth inthis episode, he spent 11
months pursuing a professionaldegree in fire.
Royal finally received anopportunity to join the Mojave
Greens of the US Forest Service,which is a crew operating out
of San Bernardino, california.
Royal has spent more than 10years as a wildland firefighter
in the US Forest Service, calFire, and now with the Buffalo
(01:17):
Hand Crew, which is FFRP's ownprivate fire department.
In 2022, royal received a pardonfrom Governor Newsom on behalf
of the state of California.
In 2023, he was awarded theObama Leaders USA Program
Participant Award and in 2024,became a TED Fellow Royal gives
(01:41):
credit to God for the successthat he has experienced in this
whole notion of being able toturn around a life and then pass
that on to others.
I hope that you enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
Welcome, mr Ramey.
I really appreciate you comingon the podcast this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I thought we could get started with the most
logical starting point, which isyour origin story, where you
come from, what your past waslike and what brings you to the
present moment, and then we'lltalk more about the work you do
today.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Hey, cool.
So you know, royal Remy, Iactually grew up in the San
Fernando Valley.
Oh, actually let me go back alittle bit.
So I was born in Houston, texas.
My mom came out here when Icame out to California when I
was one years old, lived inSouth Central Compton area and
(02:42):
then we moved to the SanFernando Valley when I was eight
years old.
There I lived in apredominantly Hispanic
neighborhood from eight to 16years old and you know my mom
she, when we moved we had mystepdad.
She met him at the LAX stepdad.
(03:09):
She met him at the LAX whereshe was working.
And I have an older sister, Igot a younger sister and growing
in the Valley it was kind oftough living in a gang infested
neighborhood.
So you know I was one of thethree black kids on the block.
So it was definitely achallenge, you know, being in
the streets and my stepdadactually didn't take fond of me.
(03:30):
So I kind of reverted to, youknow, my environment and it kind
of led me into, you know, inthe streets and hanging around
with the Rome crowd, hangingaround with the wrong crowd, and
I got immersed into the streetlife a little bit and, you know,
accumulated some bad habits andyou know you know what that
(03:53):
leads either dead or in jail and, you know, went to jail on
multiple occasions juvenile halland prison.
But I ended up, you know,getting into some trouble when I
was in the valley and my momdecided to move to San
Bernardino County where I residenow.
And, yeah, just a littlefirecracker and doing, you know,
(04:17):
making poor choices and whichled me to, you know, robbery and
burglary and which led me to,you know, robbery and burglary
and that's how, you know, Istarted spending my young adult
life in prison and you know Iwent to prison.
I was sentenced to six years inprison.
(04:40):
I did four years, eight months,and at a time I was kind of
like flabbergasted on me.
You know, being in a situationI was in.
I was always a smart kid, hadgood grades, but you know, the
streets pretty much took over.
But while I was in prison Irealized that, you know, I
(05:01):
wanted to do something better inmy life.
I knew prison wasn't alifestyle for me that I really
wanted to indulge with and talkto a lot of folks that was in
there.
That was like man, this is notfor you, like you're smarter
than these other cats andstarted to do some self-healing
and reflect self-reflection.
(05:22):
And I remember vividly in asale one day, a gentleman there
he slided a Sports Illustratedmagazine and up in my sales.
I read this and on the cover itwas John Wall.
He was a freshman, kentucky onhis way to the NBA and I asked
(05:42):
the question.
He was a freshman in Kentuckyon his way to the NBA and I
asked the question.
I was like you know how, likeyou know, we're kind of around
the same age, you know bothblack men right, like how did he
get to a place of college and asimilar upbringing as me, he in
college and I'm in prison?
(06:02):
And I realized that you know,it was a lot of choices that he
made, regardless of thecircumstances he was in.
And you know what can I do tobe better and try to change the
narrative for my family?
I remember being in middleschool and my mom received a big
package and my uncle was inprison at the time.
(06:24):
I remember and got the bigpackage and my uncle was um, was
in prison at the time.
I remember and uh, got the bigpackage and we got noticed that
he actually uh, died in prisonironwood state prison and and
that kind of like started to,like, you know, get me to
thinking of like man, I don'twant to die in prison, you know,
um, and as I figured, I didn'trealize the things that I was
(06:45):
going through as a young man andit's a lot of things.
I had a lot of anger issues.
I was, you know, upset about mycircumstances, obviously, and
like opportunity, and I really Ilearned fast in prison, you
know, patience, but also thepower of choice is real and just
(07:08):
taking responsibility andaccountability for myself and,
um, you know, start doing thatself-healing.
And from there I end up, youknow, have an opportunity to go
to fire camp and went to myannual review, because you
usually do that every year whenyou're in prison to evaluate
your, your behavior and status.
(07:30):
And they said that you know I'meligible to go to fire camp.
You know you want to go, and Iwas like, what is fire camp, you
know?
So I'm like, can I get sometime to think about it or talk
to some folks?
And it's like, yeah, no problem.
Um, at that time California orthe California um department of
(07:52):
corrections rehabilitation wassending folks um out of state
because it was overcrowdingCalifornia.
So I actually ended up going toArizona and Mississippi.
Um, so in the time I was inMississippi in 2012, I actually,
you know, it was kind of likeit was foreign to me.
So when I called my mom, I gotan opportunity to go to fire
(08:14):
camp.
She was like, boy, you betterhurry up and get back out here
and go and do that.
And then I talked to a coupleof folks that was in the cell
block that I was in and it waslike, you know, know, yeah, fire
camp was great.
You know good food, it's adormitory, you know living
situation.
You have, um, you got theability to visit your family,
(08:36):
can visit you in a park, likesetting right, there's all these
different.
You know great things about it.
Um, so I was like, you knowwhat, sure, why not?
So did uh, went back tocalifornia, did the the training
that they, uh, they providedwhen it comes to being a
wildland firefighter?
And I end up, uh, going to firecamp.
But little did I know that Ihad to change my trading, my
(08:58):
nikes for these boots.
And you know, um, there's this,you know, get this pack and
it's a McLeod.
And it was like what, what isthis?
I never even thought that likefolks really did this actually
on the front lines fightingfires and stuff.
So it was mentally andemotionally and physically
challenging, but from there Iactually end up embracing and
(09:19):
loving it, racing and loving it.
In the last, I believe, like 20plus months of my sentence, I
dedicated my focus in life to,you know, a wildland firefighter
and fell in love with it.
I wanted to pursue it as acareer, but it wasn't a really
(09:40):
true pathway to be able totransition over to
professionally once you havebeen incarcerated.
At the time that I was inprison.
So I met up with my co-founder,brenda Smith, and we was like
man, we love this, and we wentto pursue this as a career and
it was like but it's like, youknow, it's the whispers around,
you know, if you have a felony,if you are you, if you are a
felon, you can't become afirefighter.
(10:02):
So for some reason I felt likeit wasn't true.
I felt like it wasn't through.
I felt like it was somethingthere and I was like man, I love
this.
Uh, you know, I want to.
I wanted as bad as I want tobreathe.
So I was going to figure out away to be able to make that
happen.
And um, um came home.
You know we had found a pathwayof how to transition from
incarceration to um being awildland firefighter with the US
(10:25):
Forest Service, and then, in2018, I ended up getting an
opportunity to work for Cal Fire, and that's when I knew, you
know, it's something that weneed to put on paper.
So I ended up following a 501c3status and pretty much from
there, we helped over 300 peopleget jobs in the fire service.
(10:47):
About 60 people now work forCal Fire out of those numbers
and it's just been a journey forsure.
And now you know, running I'mthe CEO and a co-founder of the
organization.
It's just, you know, it's beenbeen, it's been crazy since the
la fires and we we was, you know, kind of, you know, not a small
(11:09):
non-profit just making, makingchange in a little corner and
then I had to operate, you know,la fires head and I got a lot
of publicity and around whatwe've been doing.
Well, I, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Um, you're very humble about the work you do and
I know you've you've receivednational international
recognition.
We'll get.
We'll get to that in a minute.
But I want to go back to thisquestion I had around, like how
felons convicted felons can beused to fight fires but can't
(11:45):
become firefighters officiallywhen they when they get out of
prison.
How has the law changed or didyou guys find a workaround or
talk to us about that?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
yeah.
So it's just been misconceptionaround that um california has
been utilizing incarceratedpeople since the 1940s and a lot
of folks have transitioned, butit's never been like a true um
pathway.
And when I say that it's likemore of a, you know you can
actually do it and these are thesteps on this the application
(12:16):
process, the certifications youneed and um, in order for you to
be able to transitionsuccessfully.
And you know, for me personally, you know it just when I got to
or when I started to do thiswildland firefighting thing and
being a firefighter or CAL FIREprofessionally is just really
(12:41):
the stigma.
And I think for me you know,working for the Forest Service,
it was more so how to navigatethe application process right,
like, what do you put on your?
Because when I was the time thatI, you know, worked for the
Forest Service, you know you hadto explain, like, have you had
(13:02):
in the last seven years, haveyou ever, you know, have a
felony?
You know you have to explain,like, have you had in the last
seven years, have you ever, youknow, have a felony?
And it's the way you explainthe situation was very critical
because before then, I know,like a lot of folks would say
certain things and they did justget disqualified.
So it was really around likeverbiage and making sure that
you understand how to you knowplace it.
(13:23):
But like it's really been, it'sbeen a thing you know a lot of
folks been have an opportunityto do it.
It's just knowing you know howto navigate the application
process and what certificationsyou need and all that good stuff
.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
So that's actually, then, the work that your
nonprofit is supporting youngmen with, then correct.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, young men and women.
Men and women, men and women.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Interesting.
Yes, so I'll get back to thenonprofit work in a minute.
But I'm intrigued by theconcept of fire camp.
So I've never been in prisonand so all I know is by speaking
with people who have been andby reading about it.
But I'm sure there are parts ofprison that are physically
(14:07):
demanding et cetera.
But then there's also a partwhere there's a lot of decision
making that's made for you,right Like your life is pretty
restricted physically,emotionally, psychologically,
maybe even spirituallychallenging on a whole different
level.
Was there a fitness component?
(14:28):
Was there?
Had you even been?
Were you an outdoor kind ofdude or was it like, or was that
all new?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
to you.
Yeah, it was definitely new.
I, you know, grew up in, youknow urban and inner city, you
know so, our community, so soit's like it was definitely
different.
Um, never seen you know wildanimals, right, never been into
the forest in no way, shape orform or fashion, so it was
(14:56):
definitely new to me.
The physical um component isreally, uh, challenging for, I
believe, for anybody when youimagine you know you having this
equipment on you, having youknow your PPE on, like you going
out there in the front linesand and creating fuel breaks on
(15:17):
steep terrain and you know it's,it's, it's hot, you know it's,
you know it's just, it's justit's, it's, it's just crazy,
right, like I really I rememberon multiple occasions, or
actually let me tell you thisfunny story.
So I remember on my first hike,you know I got the pack, got
(15:39):
the boots, got the PPE and stuff, and I was like, all right,
we're going to hike thismountain and like I'm like what
got the ppe and stuff, and it'sall right, we're gonna hike this
mountain and like I'm like what?
Like?
And it's different from youflat ground or you running all
right with all this equipment onand having this tool in your
hand and it's like what?
Like it's crazy.
And I remember, uh, you know wefirst, you know our, our whole
crew, you know was, was, youknow was hiking up and stuff,
(16:01):
and you could see like the gapfor me and the last person, or
me being the last person in thegap with the second person, it
was like you know, tremendousright.
And I remember finishing thehike and my captain was just
waiting on me and looking at meand I'm physically exhausted,
right, and I'm like just feltlike I was defeated and I'm like
(16:22):
just felt like I was defeatedand he told me he's like man,
ramey, you're like the youngestguy on the crew and you're the
slowest, like what are you?
You know what's going on right,he's like I'm 50 plus years old
, like I'm beating you up themountain and stuff, and I was
like man, like immediately I waslike man, this sucks, right.
(16:44):
I don like.
You know, I felt like he waseven calling me soft Right.
So I'm like you know what Iain't soft Right.
So let me, let me show him andI think, with a lot of the
healing and a self-reflection ofmyself and what I've been
working on, you know, my mentaland my emotional intelligence
(17:05):
while I was in prison gave methe ability to really, you know,
take on that challenge and youknow I just start working out
every.
You know take on that challengeand you know I just start
working out every.
You know working out more,hiking more.
Even on the weekends I used tohike with the more captain and
just building that, the staminaCause it's.
There's nothing like nothing.
Compare you for the mountain,like you have to just do it.
(17:28):
You got to hike, you can't.
The swimming and running, thepull-ups, the weights stuff is
not going to help you.
So, um, but from there it wasdefinitely um, a challenge for
at first, and you just conditionyour body, you know you can
acclimate to it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So it must have been in a certain way liberating
though, because I'd imagine thatthat you got judged for your
fitness and how effective youwere at your work, right Like.
Was that a liberatingexperience for you?
Like you weren't necessarilyidentified with what your
sentence was, but rather whetheryou were good or not at the
(18:06):
firefighting.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Absolutely.
It really showed me that I feellike if you can fight fire, you
could do anything right, like,and it gave me the sense of
purpose and pride.
Um, it really helped me grow inall those three areas, you know
mentally, emotionally,physically and also spiritually
too, like you said, um, itreally gave me, um, gave me the
(18:31):
power of, of, of choice and,just like, I think, even me
being more fearless of allthings, like I was in the
streets doing, you know, dumbstuff and I'm like, if I can be
able to take some of that, um,you know that adrenaline junkie
and you know the, the, the, theyouth of myself, and if I can,
(18:52):
you know, do all this negativestuff, like, how can I, how can
I take that energy and put itinto something that's good,
especially when you on fires andyou come back and you see,
thank you firefighters,regardless, if you have, are you
wearing orange?
It really shows that, um, youknow, like I'm a firefighter,
like I felt like I was while Iwas in prison, and really gave
(19:13):
me that, that liberating,umating ideology and spirit for
me to be able to continue topursue it as a career.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Talk to us a bit about the actual everyday work
of your nonprofit.
Are you recruiting in prison tohelp encourage young men and
women to take this path, or areyou waiting until they're in the
fire camps and then you'rehelping transition them into the
(19:44):
career post-incarceration?
Talk to us about the work youdo.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Absolutely All of the above.
We visit all 35 camps to beable to recruit and give them
that inspiration and give themsomething to look forward to
once they come home andobviously tell our stories to
our staff that have the livedexperience, like myself, and
being able to help them.
You know, help them transitionis to give them that spark.
(20:18):
And you know we have an intakecoordinator that you know have.
You know, contact them, letthem know that there's an
ability for them to come homeand once they actually come home
, you know we can be able to putthem through our career
training program.
If they're, they can be able tocome to San Bernardino or
Oakland.
And and then, you know,obviously we do the training
(20:39):
piece, which is consists of aneight week program.
We give them all the, the, thecertifications they need to get
an entry level position with Cal, fire, the forest service or
even a you know, private, youknow contract crew or any like a
forestry, um type of careersand um, you know that's the like
(21:02):
.
The first four weeks reallyfocused on the, the, the
certification piece, and thenthe second ladder part is more
towards um, employment support.
You know, help them with theirresume, help them with financial
literacy, help them also gettheir expungement through AB
2147.
And then we also do fieldmitigation work.
(21:25):
So when you're not fightingfires, when you're in fire camp,
you do a lot of fieldmitigation work, meaning you
know brush clearing, weedabatement.
Some programs have like treeprograms in in camps so you can
be able to learn how to like cutdown hazardous trees.
I'm doing a defensible spacework and stuff throughout the um
(21:46):
the state and plus we've beendoing some prescribed burning
with the nature conservancy aswell.
So we give them, try to givethem a gambit of knowledge,
skills and abilities, um, how todo it professionally.
Um, once they come home, and thebig, the but the biggest thing
is the life skills piece.
Because, like I think, when youthink about folks that's being
(22:08):
incarcerated, like they're,they're considered a public
nuisance, right.
So how do you get them to be,to look at themselves as a
public servant?
So it's the way that you carryyourself, it's the way that you
have to come up and show up andshow out.
Like firefighting is alifestyle, it's not a nine to
five, so it's really a 180mindset that they will have to
(22:31):
embrace, to look themselves assomebody that that serves their,
you know their, their, theircommunity, you know 24, seven,
regardless of you know the timeor the date.
So, and also like thenavigating the application
process.
But then, but once you get the,you know the, the, the job as a
(22:54):
firefighter, like, how do youtransition successfully in a
predominantly white Caucasianmale field?
You know our profession at that.
So, ways that you, you knowbecause you know firefighting
can be, you know as a rookie,can be challenging, you know as
(23:16):
a rookie can be challenging.
So you, you have to learn howto adapt and overcome and
embrace the suck and understandhow to, you know, adapt, you
know.
And then, especially in the inthe wilderness and rural areas
and stuff, so, um, it'sdefinitely um, that gambit.
And then also we provide astipend, um, a paid stipend
while they're in a program aswell it really sounds like
you've covered all the differentangles.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I was going to ask you that question you got to it
ahead of me was the culturalbridge between you know that the
, the, the unfortunate, theunfortunate, tragic reality of
our, of, of, uh, incarcerationis, is young people of color,
and and, and not only youngpeople, but young people, people
(23:59):
of color, rather, and then I'dimagine, without having done the
research, that this backcountry culture of firefighting
is pretty white, and so you knowthat's an interesting bridge
right For people to to cross.
How, how has your I'm sure youmeasure, you have success
(24:21):
metrics for the?
The cycle of recidivism is issomething that that is super
challenging to break, as youknow, as you know more, more
better than I do Like what'syour success rate?
And I'm sure that's somethingthat keeps you up at night.
Right, is like what would betough it would be.
(24:42):
Someone goes through yourprogram and then ends up back in
the system yeah, so successful.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Our success rate is about 90 percent compared to, I
think, the nation's like 44percent, and in california is a
little bit above that too.
So, um, I think we try toidentify people.
That's really serious about itand, you know, tightening up our
vetting process and I know, asyou, you know, obviously you
(25:11):
each are we training about 100people a year.
So, um, you, you know it's agut feeling when it comes to,
you know, trying to identifypeople that serious, because you
do have those folks.
That's not.
But I think there's some folksthat when they first come, or
you know they might have,obviously they have a lot of
(25:33):
challenges right, you know, withtrauma in their life and got to
get over things.
And, um, one of the things thatI like know to be true is that
it is, you know, firefighting isa preliminary culture and when
you um are having dealt withpeople that don't have like
(25:53):
authority right, like they're,they're trying to bug up the
system, it can be a definitely atransition.
But, um, sometimes it takes,you know, one or two times or
three, even three times for themto get it and really understand
the magnitude.
Especially the younger they are, the more um challenging it can
be, but as though, like theaverage of all the 30-year-old
(26:14):
person that comes through ourprogram, are more set to be more
successful because they've beenthrough some things in life.
But yeah, it's definitely crazybecause you see so much
potential in each and everyperson.
But it's really for them tomake the decision to really keep
this standard and knowing thatthis is a viable option for them
(26:39):
and this could be a careerchanging opportunity for them if
they really take it serious.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Before we had started hitting record, you mentioned
the LA fires, la fires, and soobviously this is a really tough
year for firefighting inCalifornia.
Talk to us about the role thatyour organization played and how
(27:09):
you interacted with thefighting of those fires.
My understanding is that it's amulti-agency effort.
It sounds like firefighters arecoming from multiple states,
sometimes from multiplecountries.
When it's a multi-agency effort, it sounds like firefighters
are coming from multiple states,sometimes from multiple
countries.
When it's something that big,how did your organization fit
into that quilt of overlappingagencies?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
So during the time we just had started our cohort.
So usually what we do is wegive them the basic 32, because
they have a couple of otherclasses before they can even be
considered or a program.
So when the LA fires hit it wasactually the training that they
need in order for them toactually go out and be a
wildland firefighter with theForest Service or even with Cal
(27:45):
Fire on a hand crew.
So we was doing that and thenand a lot of the alumni that
came through our program inprevious years actually fought
fires, fought the LA fires, theEden and Palisades fire, and so
that's one of the biggest rolewe play.
But then once we finish ourtraining, everything kind of
(28:07):
started dying down.
Like you said, like youmentioned, you know, we have
support from Mexico, I believe,and also Canada.
So we didn't actually fightfires but we end up going and
did a TNC project, which is anational conservancy project,
out in the Tahoe National Forestand doing some prescribed
burning.
But the biggest role we playedyeah was, you know, we had
(28:31):
pretty sure, you know a lot ofour alumni was working with the
different multi-agencies to beable to put out those fires and
so really, you know, it soundslike you train for backcountry
stuff, but also urban.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Is that right too?
Is that like you guys have tohave skills that apply across
the board?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
So the forest service is really focused on, you know,
the back country and thewildland firefighting um, um
sector.
But then when you work for calfire, depending on if you you
know you're on a hand crew oryou're on an engine, you know
you can be able to um do a wholelot right.
So, like cal fire is anall-risk fire department.
(29:14):
You got 21 units throughout thestate and they have state
responsibility area that theycover and you could, you know,
actually you know be on theengine and respond to a medical
aid in your unit or you could doa structure, you know,
structure fire or vehicle firesupport and rope and rescue,
(29:35):
which I have, you know know,done in my career when I worked
for cal fire.
But for the most part we focusmore so on, on the wildland
portion, um, really the skillsthat they have learned while
they was incarcerated on thecrew.
We really pretty much fine-tunethat.
But then also we provide somecertifications like Hazmat Pro
(29:55):
and Combined Spacing Awareness,public Safety, first Aid,
because those are some of thecertifications you need in order
for you to work for CAL FIRE.
So it's more focused onwildland firefighting.
But we have a lot of alumni andfolks that come by talk to the
folks about other opportunitieswith CAL FIRE on the more on the
(30:18):
all risk side.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
So your work has received widespread recognition
and, if I'm not mistaken, youwere recognized by the Obama
Foundation and also as a TEDfellow.
That must have been a prettysurreal experience.
Talk to our listeners aboutthose experiences and how that
(30:40):
kind of reaffirms the workyou've been committed to for all
these years.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, that gave me goosebumps.
While you said that it's crazy,I remember talking to one of my
employees and he was like hey,hey, chief, I think you should
apply for this Obama foundationleadership program.
Um, yeah, I think you'd be agreat fit.
Looked at, I was like, ah, theymight not like to be right, I'm
just this guy.
(31:06):
So I remember putting myapplication in and, uh, they
called me for an interview,interviewed me, and I was like
man, and you know they, they,they selected me.
And I was like man, and youknow they, they selected me.
And I was like, okay, I must bedoing something right, right,
um, and we had some recognitionfrom congresswoman cam logger
dove in 2022, I think, whichkind of like catapulted that
(31:28):
with the james irvine foundation, because I got the leadership
award with my co-founder, andthat's first, and then the Obama
, and then, and then I had theopportunity to when I applied to
the, the TED fellowship in 2024, which really kind of put us on
the map, um, and, and also thegovernor, um, actually parted me
(31:49):
in 2022 too.
So I'm not I'm not a fan of liketalking all about my accolades
or whatever, but, um, it isrewarding.
You know, me starting out, orme, me and brandon starting this
organization.
It was never about accolades,it was really about impact,
right?
Uh, just wanted I just knewthat when I was in camp that I
(32:10):
wish I had somebody to say hey,you know, you know, I understand
how you feel, being in yoursituation, your shoes, and this
is a valuable option for you.
So that's one of the reasonswhy I started it.
But, yeah, throughout theseyears it's been surreal, it's
been an honor.
You know, sometimes I get alittle emotional just thinking
(32:32):
about it, because you know itdoes feel good to be recognized
for good work, because you know,you know, for the most of my
life, you know always been.
You know, you know the public,you know the public nuisance or
the, you know the minister,society guy, you know, you know,
(33:01):
and it's just, it's just, it'sgood to to know my worth and
know that that I am contributingto society and I just, I just
know that once it's all said anddone for me, when, when,
hopefully, I'm in a deathbed,when I die or whatever, right,
and I can look at my family'seyes and and know that not only
just influenced them thatsurround me but also generations
of folks that have beenunderrepresented and underserved
(33:24):
and given them an opportunityto be able to provide for their
families financially but also bean asset to the community, not
only throughout the state, buteven the nation, because when
you work with the Forest Service, you go and fight fire all
throughout the country.
So it's a great feeling.
Honestly, I'm looking forwardto more opportunities like this
(33:50):
and wanted to just continue toshare my story because people
will be surprised that, you know, by me being in fire camp like,
where a lot of people thinkthat you know you're in prison
right.
Like you know you don't havetoo many options when you come
home to be successful, but youactually do so I just want to
continue to spread thatawareness about it.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Well, I, you know your story is inspirational and
a true story of redemption, andso I thank you for sharing it.
And it's interesting to me as Ithink about the stereotype that
so many people carry around isthey think, oh well, you know,
felons, like, are almost quote,unquote.
You know, like, like, let'sstick them on the front lines of
(34:35):
fighting fires because you knowthat's just a good place to to
put them.
I mean, I've heard thosecomments a lot, but actually, as
you talk through this, you, you, when you, when you went into
fire camp, like they wereforming you into, I mean, you,
you might have been a tough guybehind bars, but you're out
there, a different environment.
(34:55):
The old dude calls you soft orkind of intimated that right,
and you got to get, you got toget your stuff in order and then
you, actually, you turn thisinto a career.
I mean, what more inspiringthing can there be than that?
So, so I I'm wondering if youcould, if you could, give me a
message for your.
(35:16):
I don't know how old you arewhen you started to get, how old
you were, rather, when youstarted to to run on into
trouble on the streets.
But let's just choose an age,like, let's say, 16, your
current age.
What message would you giveyour 16 year old self right now,
like if you could go back andtalk to him.
What would you tell him?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Um, I think the first thing I'll say is you're great,
right.
You know you worthy of beingable to be what you want to be,
like it was.
It was a time I remember like Iwanted to be a lawyer.
I thought of all types ofbusinessmen, right, like all the
different things, and I justfelt like it was too far fetched
for me, right, like I rememberI tell folks this all the time.
I remember, you know, runningaround the streets and stuff,
(36:04):
seeing red engines and trucks,and I never thought that that
could be me, because I neverseen nobody that looked like me.
So that was never something Ithought about.
It wasn't an option for me.
I felt like it was.
Either you had to be, so successlooked like either you had to
be in the streets, right, or youhad to be an entertainer of
(36:27):
some sort, right.
So if I could tell my youngerself was like you know, just
because you don't see yourselfor you don't, you know, think
that you can probably do it.
I think you know you, you can,right.
I think that's where the youngfolks, they get discouraged and
(36:48):
then they want things fast,right Like the media
gratification on things, andit's like you got to be patient
right, like the immediategratification on things, and
it's like you got to be patient,you got to wait and you got to
research, you got to you know,put in the time and effort to be
great.
You know, but you have thepotential, you are great, like
it's in you, it's already in youand you know.
The biggest message would belike understand the power of
(37:09):
choice, like, regardless of thesituation you're in and where,
where you at, and theenvironment you in.
Like you, you have theopportunity to, to do what's
right, you know, and stay awayfrom the knuckleheads and stuff.
And I think that that couldhave really been, um, you know,
(37:31):
monumental and like it'd havebeen more um, it would have been
a real impact to hear thosetype of things and having being
like having a mentor right andsomebody that can help um, guide
and direct you, and seeing adifferent type of lifestyle.
But you know you're great man,you got it in, you can do what
you want to do.
Just understand your true powerthat you have within yourself
(37:54):
and your mind where can peoplego to learn more about your work
and support you?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I'm assuming that that there's a ability to donate
non-profit donate, online.
People go to your website,follow you on social media.
Where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
yeah, so, um, so, social media-wise, the website
is forestryfirerporg, and thenmy Instagram is royalraimey and
then our Instagram for FFRP isffrp, underscore ca.
Okay, and yeah, and if folkswant to come and donate, that
(38:34):
would be huge.
Every dollar counts, right, youhave a non-profit organization,
so 501c3, so you get a taxwrite-off at the more work that
we can actually do.
And, yeah, I'm excited tocontinue to.
(39:00):
You know, build with people.
That's, you know, that wants to.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You know, see change and give people opportunity and
to be successful in lifequestion for you before, but
before I get there is thereanything that we have not
covered today that you think, uh, listeners should know about
your work?
We've covered a lot of ground,but I just wanted to make sure I
wasn't cutting you short yeah,so we do have.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Uh, I've been really focusing on on building up my
buffalo hand crew um so I didn'tmention that.
We do have opportunities to goout on fires and um.
You know that obviously thattakes a lot of money because
it's, like you know, it's aprivate kind of um, private
contract crew kind of deal andit really gives the our
(39:45):
participants the opportunity toto go out on fires
professionally and from with mystaff, because we are, you know,
qualified to go out and and dothis work.
It's something that I'm tryingto focus on more and like when
it comes to fire suppression.
But the biggest um focus for usis doing transitional work
(40:08):
where I can hire some of thefolks that come out of my career
training program to do more tofill mitigation work, because we
know, like um, one effort thatwe need to continue to think
about is that we need to focuson, you know, the the
preventative measures, rightwhen it comes to wildland
firefighting and ffrp is theintersection between workforce
(40:29):
development, criminal justicereform and also climate
resiliency, um.
So I think we in a unique spaceto be able to touch on multiple
different areas while combatingthese fires, being able to
provide folks opportunity in theworkforce, um and also, you
know, help change folks lives,that folks that come out of
(40:51):
incarceration.
Um, quick fun fact for you, itcosts about 138,860 dollars to
house one person in californiaprison and I'll tell you if I
can get about a quarter of thatleave.
That maybe even like 20, 25 000that we can invest in in this
person coming home from prisonor even as in a marginalized
(41:13):
community.
Um, they can be able to to havea you know they can make about,
you know, 6,000 to a hundred Ka year with benefits, retirement
, and you add up to all thosenumbers, right, like it's, it's,
it can be as millions ofdollars that we, that we have
invested in when it comes to the, you know, social return on
(41:35):
investment.
And Cal Fire is hiring 2,400firefighters in the next five
years.
We have a forestry workershortage about, you know, 9,400,
.
You know labor shortage gapwhen it comes to forced labor by
2028.
(41:57):
So it's a lot of opportunitiesfor jobs and placement.
And, lastly, I would want to saythat we need to be more
proactive in the preventativework for folks going, you know,
outside of folks going to prison.
So I really want to start.
(42:18):
You know I did a little pilotin San Bernardino with this high
school program, but we reallyneed to, like, show folks that
they can actually do it whilethey're in you know elementary,
middle school, high schools,like be more proactive in
talking to them about differentcareer options, right, like I
think that's something that Ifeel like a lot of.
(42:40):
You know folks from people ofcolor that have the nice, good
occupations.
That's not like glamorized.
You know you got small businessowners.
You got lawyers, doctors, youknow electricians, all these
different you know.
You know trades.
You know like show more peopleof color and that's successful
(43:01):
in the, in the, in theoccupation, and mentor people
and show you know, show facemore at these career days and
stuff.
I think that's really importantto show people there's different
options out there.
You know social influencers.
You know folks in the media outthere.
You know social influencers.
You know folks in the media,entertainment, you know, and in
different aspects too, like it'sall these different jobs and
(43:22):
good paying jobs that I thinkfolks are not too much aware of
and we need to be more proactiveand you know being more of a
being in their community andshowing up to those for the kids
and just giving them theinspiration and power because
like yeah, I'm doing it in firecamp and prison, but like as a
nation, like how can we?
(43:43):
Or as a world, like in anycountry, like how can we?
You know, pay it forward andshow folks that you know these
are different options for them,instead of you know.
Like I said, when I was a youngkid, all I thought it was two
different ways to be successful.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
So, yeah, you know, as you, as you speak, I think
about you know the changingclimate.
Whether people call it globalwarming or climate changes
doesn't even matter, becauseit's changing and so we're
seeing fires in parts of thecountry that historically we
didn't see them, fires in partsof the country that historically
we didn't see them.
(44:18):
I'm from the East Coast andthere's fires in states where I
never remember at all havingfires when I was a kid.
So, as you say, theopportunities for these jobs
that typically people don't talkabout, especially in an urban
setting, I think your point is acritical one.
Like that, mentorship andseeing for kids in an urban
(44:39):
setting to see themselvesreflected in someone who's
working in the back country, butalso all over the country,
would be super powerful.
So you know again, I want toencourage listeners to learn
more about Royals nonprofit, thework that you're doing.
(44:59):
It's transformative.
You're humble about yourrecognition, but congratulations
, and also congratulations onthe pardon as well.
That's huge.
I want to just close with onehypothetical question for you.
Imagine you got the chance todesign a billboard for the side
(45:23):
of the freeway.
I'm not sure what freeway isclosest to your house in San
Bernardino, I don't know the 15or something, you got a chance
to design a billboard for theside of the freeway that people
saw as they drove by.
What does your billboard say tothe world about what you
believe, what you find, to beimportant in this life?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
You know I'm a Christian, so obviously you know
Jesus Christ is some.
You know that it got to be onthe billboard and what I believe
, but also to just there'll be acollage of things of, I think,
people you know, need to knowthat you're not the some.
You know some people makemistakes and they shouldn't be a
(46:08):
sum of one bad day or that youknow, or one mistake that folks
made, right.
I think we need to get into aplace where, you know, second
chances is real and I thinkhumans need to understand grace
and mercy for folks.
And you know you can turn itaround.
(46:30):
You know, because that'ssomething that I just believe in
and I have lived it, you know.
You know I've been on bothsides, kind of now, so I
understand that.
You know folks can change andmove forward and, you know, be
the best person you can be.
You know, just continue to grow, continue to educate yourselves
(46:50):
, continue to, you know, have anopen mind and be thoughtful
about what you do and and andlastly, like, think about how
you, like I said in yourdeathbed, like, what are your
last, like what would you wantyour legacy to be?
How have you contributed tosociety?
Because everybody have alimited time and there isn't is.
(47:12):
Are you doing everything youneed in order for you to make
true impact and change, and, um,and if you're living a healthy
and happy life, right, um, Ithink those are the things that
are definitely collaging in thatbillboard.
Um, and hopefully that can youknow, and sometimes some
inspiration thing or something Idon't know, but uh, nobody
(47:34):
hasn't ever asked me thatquestion, so that's, that's off
the cuff and off the fly so thatthat's how.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
That's how it's supposed to be.
So that's.
There's a reason.
I didn't ask you that inadvance, because you would have,
you would have planned it outand and uh.
So I appreciate that becausethat's authentic, the way you
have it, and what resonates forme is this whole impetus of
being able to turn things aroundright.
Your life exemplifies that and,as a Christian, you you know
(48:04):
there is no more redemptivesymbol than Jesus Christ.
So I think that's that's sopowerful and and I really thank
you for the time that you'vegiven today to our listeners,
for the work for the peopleyou've impacted, both the people
you know you've impacted andthen the people who you don't
(48:26):
even know you've impacted.
Right, because I'd imagine eachof those people who has gone
through your program 90% of themare not ending up back in the
criminal justice system and thathas a ripple effect in the
world Like that means functional, caring people back in
communities, doing good forother people, and that just is
(48:49):
good for humanity.
So thank you for yourcontribution to making this life
better for people.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Man, that's well said and that's something that I
think about all the time too.
It's like I ain't going to betoo long-winded, but I just can
imagine, like when it's all saidand done for myself, like when
you change, you know, 300-pluspeople's lives which we have.
You know that many peoplethrough our program, since,
(49:18):
technically, 2015, we've beenworking with people, but I can
imagine what now, the trajectoryof their lives, for their
families and their generations,right of their kids, kids, you
(49:53):
know they have a piece of, youknow, 300, 400 years that it
helped build the trajectory ofsomebody you know or their
families and you know, and whatthat can actually provide.
You know, now that you knowthat family member or you know
that son, a daughter, thathusband, that wife you know have
(50:14):
given um help with thisfinancial stability where they
can go to college now and nowthey could put them in a
position where they can, youknow, live in a different
neighborhood and a better livingcondition, right, um, and just
think about that generational umlane.
And now, that's why I'm so, I'mso happy and I'm so blessed and
(50:36):
um, it ain't me, you know, it'sGod to me.
So everything I do is not evenme, it's really God and um.
I give all the glory to him andum.
But just yeah, I see it, youknow, and I'm I'm just so
humbled and grateful um and andblessed.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Thank you.
Thank you, Chief Raymond.
I really, really appreciate andhave enjoyed our conversation
today.
I learned so much and I'mdefinitely going to go check out
and donate as well to theorganization and encourage
others to do it as well.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Thank you so much, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Thanks for joining us on the Hangout Podcast.
You can send us an email atpodcastinfo at protonme.
Many thanks to my daughter,maya, for editing this episode.
I'd also like to underline thatthis podcast is entirely
separate from my day job and, assuch, all opinions expressed
herein are mine and mine alone.
(51:33):
Thanks for coming on in andhanging out.
Welcome to the Hangout Podcast.
I'm your host, david Shoretta.
Come on in and hang out.
In this episode, I wasprivileged to have a
conversation with Royal Ramey.
Royal is the co-founder and CEOof FFRP, which stands for the
Forestry and Fire RecruitmentProgram, which stands for the
(00:28):
Forestry and Fire RecruitmentProgram.
Royal grew up in the SanFernando Valley in California
and, as he describes it, had achallenging upbringing, both in
the home as well as on thestreets.
Then that led to some poordecision-making and, ultimately,
his incarceration incarceration, as Royal describes.
He discovered this concept offire camp while incarcerated and
(00:55):
subsequently, after deciding tocommit to this training process
, which he describes in depth inthis episode, he spent 11
months pursuing a professionaldegree in fire.
Royal finally received anopportunity to join the Mojave
Greens of the US Forest Service,which is a crew operating out
of San Bernardino, california.
Royal has spent more than 10years as a wildland firefighter
in the US Forest Service, calFire, and now with the Buffalo
(01:17):
Hand Crew, which is FFRP's ownprivate fire department.
In 2022, royal received a pardonfrom Governor Newsom on behalf
of the state of California.
In 2023, he was awarded theObama Leaders USA Program
Participant Award and in 2024,became a TED Fellow Royal gives
(01:41):
credit to God for the successthat he has experienced in this
whole notion of being able toturn around a life and then pass
that on to others.
I hope that you enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
Welcome, mr Ramey.
I really appreciate you comingon the podcast this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I thought we could get started with the most
logical starting point, which isyour origin story, where you
come from, what your past waslike and what brings you to the
present moment, and then we'lltalk more about the work you do
today.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Hey, cool.
So you know, royal Remy, Iactually grew up in the San
Fernando Valley.
Oh, actually let me go back alittle bit.
So I was born in Houston, texas.
My mom came out here when Icame out to California when I
was one years old, lived inSouth Central Compton area and
(02:42):
then we moved to the SanFernando Valley when I was eight
years old.
There I lived in apredominantly Hispanic
neighborhood from eight to 16years old and you know my mom
she, when we moved we had mystepdad.
She met him at the LAX stepdad.
(03:09):
She met him at the LAX whereshe was working.
And I have an older sister, Igot a younger sister and growing
in the Valley it was kind oftough living in a gang infested
neighborhood.
So you know I was one of thethree black kids on the block.
So it was definitely achallenge, you know, being in
the streets and my stepdadactually didn't take fond of me.
(03:30):
So I kind of reverted to, youknow, my environment and it kind
of led me into, you know, inthe streets and hanging around
with the Rome crowd, hangingaround with the wrong crowd, and
I got immersed into the streetlife a little bit and, you know,
accumulated some bad habits andyou know you know what that
(03:53):
leads either dead or in jail and, you know, went to jail on
multiple occasions juvenile halland prison.
But I ended up, you know,getting into some trouble when I
was in the valley and my momdecided to move to San
Bernardino County where I residenow.
And, yeah, just a littlefirecracker and doing, you know,
(04:17):
making poor choices and whichled me to, you know, robbery and
burglary and which led me to,you know, robbery and burglary
and that's how, you know, Istarted spending my young adult
life in prison and you know Iwent to prison.
I was sentenced to six years inprison.
(04:40):
I did four years, eight months,and at a time I was kind of
like flabbergasted on me.
You know, being in a situationI was in.
I was always a smart kid, hadgood grades, but you know, the
streets pretty much took over.
But while I was in prison Irealized that, you know, I
(05:01):
wanted to do something better inmy life.
I knew prison wasn't alifestyle for me that I really
wanted to indulge with and talkto a lot of folks that was in
there.
That was like man, this is notfor you, like you're smarter
than these other cats andstarted to do some self-healing
and reflect self-reflection.
(05:22):
And I remember vividly in asale one day, a gentleman there
he slided a Sports Illustratedmagazine and up in my sales.
I read this and on the cover itwas John Wall.
He was a freshman, kentucky onhis way to the NBA and I asked
(05:42):
the question.
He was a freshman in Kentuckyon his way to the NBA and I
asked the question.
I was like you know how, likeyou know, we're kind of around
the same age, you know bothblack men right, like how did he
get to a place of college and asimilar upbringing as me, he in
college and I'm in prison?
(06:02):
And I realized that you know,it was a lot of choices that he
made, regardless of thecircumstances he was in.
And you know what can I do tobe better and try to change the
narrative for my family?
I remember being in middleschool and my mom received a big
package and my uncle was inprison at the time.
(06:24):
I remember and got the bigpackage and my uncle was um, was
in prison at the time.
I remember and uh, got the bigpackage and we got noticed that
he actually uh, died in prisonironwood state prison and and
that kind of like started to,like, you know, get me to
thinking of like man, I don'twant to die in prison, you know,
um, and as I figured, I didn'trealize the things that I was
(06:45):
going through as a young man andit's a lot of things.
I had a lot of anger issues.
I was, you know, upset about mycircumstances, obviously, and
like opportunity, and I really Ilearned fast in prison, you
know, patience, but also thepower of choice is real and just
(07:08):
taking responsibility andaccountability for myself and,
um, you know, start doing thatself-healing.
And from there I end up, youknow, have an opportunity to go
to fire camp and went to myannual review, because you
usually do that every year whenyou're in prison to evaluate
your, your behavior and status.
(07:30):
And they said that you know I'meligible to go to fire camp.
You know you want to go, and Iwas like, what is fire camp, you
know?
So I'm like, can I get sometime to think about it or talk
to some folks?
And it's like, yeah, no problem.
Um, at that time California orthe California um department of
(07:52):
corrections rehabilitation wassending folks um out of state
because it was overcrowdingCalifornia.
So I actually ended up going toArizona and Mississippi.
Um, so in the time I was inMississippi in 2012, I actually,
you know, it was kind of likeit was foreign to me.
So when I called my mom, I gotan opportunity to go to fire
(08:14):
camp.
She was like, boy, you betterhurry up and get back out here
and go and do that.
And then I talked to a coupleof folks that was in the cell
block that I was in and it waslike, you know, know, yeah, fire
camp was great.
You know good food, it's adormitory, you know living
situation.
You have, um, you got theability to visit your family,
(08:36):
can visit you in a park, likesetting right, there's all these
different.
You know great things about it.
Um, so I was like, you knowwhat, sure, why not?
So did uh, went back tocalifornia, did the the training
that they, uh, they providedwhen it comes to being a
wildland firefighter?
And I end up, uh, going to firecamp.
But little did I know that Ihad to change my trading, my
(08:58):
nikes for these boots.
And you know, um, there's this,you know, get this pack and
it's a McLeod.
And it was like what, what isthis?
I never even thought that likefolks really did this actually
on the front lines fightingfires and stuff.
So it was mentally andemotionally and physically
challenging, but from there Iactually end up embracing and
(09:19):
loving it, racing and loving it.
In the last, I believe, like 20plus months of my sentence, I
dedicated my focus in life to,you know, a wildland firefighter
and fell in love with it.
I wanted to pursue it as acareer, but it wasn't a really
(09:40):
true pathway to be able totransition over to
professionally once you havebeen incarcerated.
At the time that I was inprison.
So I met up with my co-founder,brenda Smith, and we was like
man, we love this, and we wentto pursue this as a career and
it was like but it's like, youknow, it's the whispers around,
you know, if you have a felony,if you are you, if you are a
felon, you can't become afirefighter.
(10:02):
So for some reason I felt likeit wasn't true.
I felt like it wasn't through.
I felt like it was somethingthere and I was like man, I love
this.
Uh, you know, I want to.
I wanted as bad as I want tobreathe.
So I was going to figure out away to be able to make that
happen.
And um, um came home.
You know we had found a pathwayof how to transition from
incarceration to um being awildland firefighter with the US
(10:25):
Forest Service, and then, in2018, I ended up getting an
opportunity to work for Cal Fire, and that's when I knew, you
know, it's something that weneed to put on paper.
So I ended up following a 501c3status and pretty much from
there, we helped over 300 peopleget jobs in the fire service.
(10:47):
About 60 people now work forCal Fire out of those numbers
and it's just been a journey forsure.
And now you know, running I'mthe CEO and a co-founder of the
organization.
It's just, you know, it's beenbeen, it's been crazy since the
la fires and we we was, you know, kind of, you know, not a small
(11:09):
non-profit just making, makingchange in a little corner and
then I had to operate, you know,la fires head and I got a lot
of publicity and around whatwe've been doing.
Well, I, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Um, you're very humble about the work you do and
I know you've you've receivednational international
recognition.
We'll get.
We'll get to that in a minute.
But I want to go back to thisquestion I had around, like how
felons convicted felons can beused to fight fires but can't
(11:45):
become firefighters officiallywhen they when they get out of
prison.
How has the law changed or didyou guys find a workaround or
talk to us about that?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
yeah.
So it's just been misconceptionaround that um california has
been utilizing incarceratedpeople since the 1940s and a lot
of folks have transitioned, butit's never been like a true um
pathway.
And when I say that it's likemore of a, you know you can
actually do it and these are thesteps on this the application
(12:16):
process, the certifications youneed and um, in order for you to
be able to transitionsuccessfully.
And you know, for me personally, you know it just when I got to
or when I started to do thiswildland firefighting thing and
being a firefighter or CAL FIREprofessionally is just really
(12:41):
the stigma.
And I think for me you know,working for the Forest Service,
it was more so how to navigatethe application process right,
like, what do you put on your?
Because when I was the time thatI, you know, worked for the
Forest Service, you know you hadto explain, like, have you had
(13:02):
in the last seven years, haveyou ever, you know, have a
felony?
You know you have to explain,like, have you had in the last
seven years, have you ever, youknow, have a felony?
And it's the way you explainthe situation was very critical
because before then, I know,like a lot of folks would say
certain things and they did justget disqualified.
So it was really around likeverbiage and making sure that
you understand how to you knowplace it.
(13:23):
But like it's really been, it'sbeen a thing you know a lot of
folks been have an opportunityto do it.
It's just knowing you know howto navigate the application
process and what certificationsyou need and all that good stuff
.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
So that's actually, then, the work that your
nonprofit is supporting youngmen with, then correct.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, young men and women.
Men and women, men and women.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Interesting.
Yes, so I'll get back to thenonprofit work in a minute.
But I'm intrigued by theconcept of fire camp.
So I've never been in prisonand so all I know is by speaking
with people who have been andby reading about it.
But I'm sure there are parts ofprison that are physically
(14:07):
demanding et cetera.
But then there's also a partwhere there's a lot of decision
making that's made for you,right Like your life is pretty
restricted physically,emotionally, psychologically,
maybe even spirituallychallenging on a whole different
level.
Was there a fitness component?
(14:28):
Was there?
Had you even been?
Were you an outdoor kind ofdude or was it like, or was that
all new?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
to you.
Yeah, it was definitely new.
I, you know, grew up in, youknow urban and inner city, you
know so, our community, so soit's like it was definitely
different.
Um, never seen you know wildanimals, right, never been into
the forest in no way, shape orform or fashion, so it was
(14:56):
definitely new to me.
The physical um component isreally, uh, challenging for, I
believe, for anybody when youimagine you know you having this
equipment on you, having youknow your PPE on, like you going
out there in the front linesand and creating fuel breaks on
(15:17):
steep terrain and you know it's,it's, it's hot, you know it's,
you know it's just, it's justit's, it's, it's just crazy,
right, like I really I rememberon multiple occasions, or
actually let me tell you thisfunny story.
So I remember on my first hike,you know I got the pack, got
(15:39):
the boots, got the PPE and stuff, and I was like, all right,
we're going to hike thismountain and like I'm like what
got the ppe and stuff, and it'sall right, we're gonna hike this
mountain and like I'm like what?
Like?
And it's different from youflat ground or you running all
right with all this equipment onand having this tool in your
hand and it's like what?
Like it's crazy.
And I remember, uh, you know wefirst, you know our, our whole
crew, you know was, was, youknow was hiking up and stuff,
(16:01):
and you could see like the gapfor me and the last person, or
me being the last person in thegap with the second person, it
was like you know, tremendousright.
And I remember finishing thehike and my captain was just
waiting on me and looking at meand I'm physically exhausted,
right, and I'm like just feltlike I was defeated and I'm like
(16:22):
just felt like I was defeatedand he told me he's like man,
ramey, you're like the youngestguy on the crew and you're the
slowest, like what are you?
You know what's going on right,he's like I'm 50 plus years old
, like I'm beating you up themountain and stuff, and I was
like man, like immediately I waslike man, this sucks, right.
(16:44):
I don like.
You know, I felt like he waseven calling me soft Right.
So I'm like you know what Iain't soft Right.
So let me, let me show him andI think, with a lot of the
healing and a self-reflection ofmyself and what I've been
working on, you know, my mentaland my emotional intelligence
(17:05):
while I was in prison gave methe ability to really, you know,
take on that challenge and youknow I just start working out
every.
You know take on that challengeand you know I just start
working out every.
You know working out more,hiking more.
Even on the weekends I used tohike with the more captain and
just building that, the staminaCause it's.
There's nothing like nothing.
Compare you for the mountain,like you have to just do it.
(17:28):
You got to hike, you can't.
The swimming and running, thepull-ups, the weights stuff is
not going to help you.
So, um, but from there it wasdefinitely um, a challenge for
at first, and you just conditionyour body, you know you can
acclimate to it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So it must have been in a certain way liberating
though, because I'd imagine thatthat you got judged for your
fitness and how effective youwere at your work, right Like.
Was that a liberatingexperience for you?
Like you weren't necessarilyidentified with what your
sentence was, but rather whetheryou were good or not at the
(18:06):
firefighting.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Absolutely.
It really showed me that I feellike if you can fight fire, you
could do anything right, like,and it gave me the sense of
purpose and pride.
Um, it really helped me grow inall those three areas, you know
mentally, emotionally,physically and also spiritually
too, like you said, um, itreally gave me, um, gave me the
(18:31):
power of, of, of choice and,just like, I think, even me
being more fearless of allthings, like I was in the
streets doing, you know, dumbstuff and I'm like, if I can be
able to take some of that, um,you know that adrenaline junkie
and you know the, the, the, theyouth of myself, and if I can,
(18:52):
you know, do all this negativestuff, like, how can I, how can
I take that energy and put itinto something that's good,
especially when you on fires andyou come back and you see,
thank you firefighters,regardless, if you have, are you
wearing orange?
It really shows that, um, youknow, like I'm a firefighter,
like I felt like I was while Iwas in prison, and really gave
(19:13):
me that, that liberating,umating ideology and spirit for
me to be able to continue topursue it as a career.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Talk to us a bit about the actual everyday work
of your nonprofit.
Are you recruiting in prison tohelp encourage young men and
women to take this path, or areyou waiting until they're in the
fire camps and then you'rehelping transition them into the
(19:44):
career post-incarceration?
Talk to us about the work youdo.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Absolutely All of the above.
We visit all 35 camps to beable to recruit and give them
that inspiration and give themsomething to look forward to
once they come home andobviously tell our stories to
our staff that have the livedexperience, like myself, and
being able to help them.
You know, help them transitionis to give them that spark.
(20:18):
And you know we have an intakecoordinator that you know have.
You know, contact them, letthem know that there's an
ability for them to come homeand once they actually come home
, you know we can be able to putthem through our career
training program.
If they're, they can be able tocome to San Bernardino or
Oakland.
And and then, you know,obviously we do the training
(20:39):
piece, which is consists of aneight week program.
We give them all the, the, thecertifications they need to get
an entry level position with Cal, fire, the forest service or
even a you know, private, youknow contract crew or any like a
forestry, um type of careersand um, you know that's the like
(21:02):
.
The first four weeks reallyfocused on the, the, the
certification piece, and thenthe second ladder part is more
towards um, employment support.
You know, help them with theirresume, help them with financial
literacy, help them also gettheir expungement through AB
2147.
And then we also do fieldmitigation work.
(21:25):
So when you're not fightingfires, when you're in fire camp,
you do a lot of fieldmitigation work, meaning you
know brush clearing, weedabatement.
Some programs have like treeprograms in in camps so you can
be able to learn how to like cutdown hazardous trees.
I'm doing a defensible spacework and stuff throughout the um
(21:46):
the state and plus we've beendoing some prescribed burning
with the nature conservancy aswell.
So we give them, try to givethem a gambit of knowledge,
skills and abilities, um, how todo it professionally.
Um, once they come home, and thebig, the but the biggest thing
is the life skills piece.
Because, like I think, when youthink about folks that's being
(22:08):
incarcerated, like they're,they're considered a public
nuisance, right.
So how do you get them to be,to look at themselves as a
public servant?
So it's the way that you carryyourself, it's the way that you
have to come up and show up andshow out.
Like firefighting is alifestyle, it's not a nine to
five, so it's really a 180mindset that they will have to
(22:31):
embrace, to look themselves assomebody that that serves their,
you know their, their, theircommunity, you know 24, seven,
regardless of you know the timeor the date.
So, and also like thenavigating the application
process.
But then, but once you get the,you know the, the, the job as a
(22:54):
firefighter, like, how do youtransition successfully in a
predominantly white Caucasianmale field?
You know our profession at that.
So, ways that you, you knowbecause you know firefighting
can be, you know as a rookie,can be challenging, you know as
(23:16):
a rookie can be challenging.
So you, you have to learn howto adapt and overcome and
embrace the suck and understandhow to, you know, adapt, you
know.
And then, especially in the inthe wilderness and rural areas
and stuff, so, um, it'sdefinitely um, that gambit.
And then also we provide astipend, um, a paid stipend
while they're in a program aswell it really sounds like
you've covered all the differentangles.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I was going to ask you that question you got to it
ahead of me was the culturalbridge between you know that the
, the, the unfortunate, theunfortunate, tragic reality of
our, of, of, uh, incarcerationis, is young people of color,
and and, and not only youngpeople, but young people, people
(23:59):
of color, rather, and then I'dimagine, without having done the
research, that this backcountry culture of firefighting
is pretty white, and so you knowthat's an interesting bridge
right For people to to cross.
How, how has your I'm sure youmeasure, you have success
(24:21):
metrics for the?
The cycle of recidivism is issomething that that is super
challenging to break, as youknow, as you know more, more
better than I do Like what'syour success rate?
And I'm sure that's somethingthat keeps you up at night.
Right, is like what would betough it would be.
(24:42):
Someone goes through yourprogram and then ends up back in
the system yeah, so successful.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Our success rate is about 90 percent compared to, I
think, the nation's like 44percent, and in california is a
little bit above that too.
So, um, I think we try toidentify people.
That's really serious about itand, you know, tightening up our
vetting process and I know, asyou, you know, obviously you
(25:11):
each are we training about 100people a year.
So, um, you, you know it's agut feeling when it comes to,
you know, trying to identifypeople that serious, because you
do have those folks.
That's not.
But I think there's some folksthat when they first come, or
you know they might have,obviously they have a lot of
(25:33):
challenges right, you know, withtrauma in their life and got to
get over things.
And, um, one of the things thatI like know to be true is that
it is, you know, firefighting isa preliminary culture and when
you um are having dealt withpeople that don't have like
(25:53):
authority right, like they're,they're trying to bug up the
system, it can be a definitely atransition.
But, um, sometimes it takes,you know, one or two times or
three, even three times for themto get it and really understand
the magnitude.
Especially the younger they are, the more um challenging it can
be, but as though, like theaverage of all the 30-year-old
(26:14):
person that comes through ourprogram, are more set to be more
successful because they've beenthrough some things in life.
But yeah, it's definitely crazybecause you see so much
potential in each and everyperson.
But it's really for them tomake the decision to really keep
this standard and knowing thatthis is a viable option for them
(26:39):
and this could be a careerchanging opportunity for them if
they really take it serious.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Before we had started hitting record, you mentioned
the LA fires, la fires, and soobviously this is a really tough
year for firefighting inCalifornia.
Talk to us about the role thatyour organization played and how
(27:09):
you interacted with thefighting of those fires.
My understanding is that it's amulti-agency effort.
It sounds like firefighters arecoming from multiple states,
sometimes from multiplecountries.
When it's a multi-agency effort, it sounds like firefighters
are coming from multiple states,sometimes from multiple
countries.
When it's something that big,how did your organization fit
into that quilt of overlappingagencies?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
So during the time we just had started our cohort.
So usually what we do is wegive them the basic 32, because
they have a couple of otherclasses before they can even be
considered or a program.
So when the LA fires hit it wasactually the training that they
need in order for them toactually go out and be a
wildland firefighter with theForest Service or even with Cal
(27:45):
Fire on a hand crew.
So we was doing that and thenand a lot of the alumni that
came through our program inprevious years actually fought
fires, fought the LA fires, theEden and Palisades fire, and so
that's one of the biggest rolewe play.
But then once we finish ourtraining, everything kind of
(28:07):
started dying down.
Like you said, like youmentioned, you know, we have
support from Mexico, I believe,and also Canada.
So we didn't actually fightfires but we end up going and
did a TNC project, which is anational conservancy project,
out in the Tahoe National Forestand doing some prescribed
burning.
But the biggest role we playedyeah was, you know, we had
(28:31):
pretty sure, you know a lot ofour alumni was working with the
different multi-agencies to beable to put out those fires and
so really, you know, it soundslike you train for backcountry
stuff, but also urban.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Is that right too?
Is that like you guys have tohave skills that apply across
the board?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
So the forest service is really focused on, you know,
the back country and thewildland firefighting um, um
sector.
But then when you work for calfire, depending on if you you
know you're on a hand crew oryou're on an engine, you know
you can be able to um do a wholelot right.
So, like cal fire is anall-risk fire department.
(29:14):
You got 21 units throughout thestate and they have state
responsibility area that theycover and you could, you know,
actually you know be on theengine and respond to a medical
aid in your unit or you could doa structure, you know,
structure fire or vehicle firesupport and rope and rescue,
(29:35):
which I have, you know know,done in my career when I worked
for cal fire.
But for the most part we focusmore so on, on the wildland
portion, um, really the skillsthat they have learned while
they was incarcerated on thecrew.
We really pretty much fine-tunethat.
But then also we provide somecertifications like Hazmat Pro
(29:55):
and Combined Spacing Awareness,public Safety, first Aid,
because those are some of thecertifications you need in order
for you to work for CAL FIRE.
So it's more focused onwildland firefighting.
But we have a lot of alumni andfolks that come by talk to the
folks about other opportunitieswith CAL FIRE on the more on the
(30:18):
all risk side.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
So your work has received widespread recognition
and, if I'm not mistaken, youwere recognized by the Obama
Foundation and also as a TEDfellow.
That must have been a prettysurreal experience.
Talk to our listeners aboutthose experiences and how that
(30:40):
kind of reaffirms the workyou've been committed to for all
these years.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, that gave me goosebumps.
While you said that it's crazy,I remember talking to one of my
employees and he was like hey,hey, chief, I think you should
apply for this Obama foundationleadership program.
Um, yeah, I think you'd be agreat fit.
Looked at, I was like, ah, theymight not like to be right, I'm
just this guy.
(31:06):
So I remember putting myapplication in and, uh, they
called me for an interview,interviewed me, and I was like
man, and you know they, they,they selected me.
And I was like man, and youknow they, they selected me.
And I was like, okay, I must bedoing something right, right,
um, and we had some recognitionfrom congresswoman cam logger
dove in 2022, I think, whichkind of like catapulted that
(31:28):
with the james irvine foundation, because I got the leadership
award with my co-founder, andthat's first, and then the Obama
, and then, and then I had theopportunity to when I applied to
the, the TED fellowship in 2024, which really kind of put us on
the map, um, and, and also thegovernor, um, actually parted me
(31:49):
in 2022 too.
So I'm not I'm not a fan of liketalking all about my accolades
or whatever, but, um, it isrewarding.
You know, me starting out, orme, me and brandon starting this
organization.
It was never about accolades,it was really about impact,
right?
Uh, just wanted I just knewthat when I was in camp that I
(32:10):
wish I had somebody to say hey,you know, you know, I understand
how you feel, being in yoursituation, your shoes, and this
is a valuable option for you.
So that's one of the reasonswhy I started it.
But, yeah, throughout theseyears it's been surreal, it's
been an honor.
You know, sometimes I get alittle emotional just thinking
(32:32):
about it, because you know itdoes feel good to be recognized
for good work, because you know,you know, for the most of my
life, you know always been.
You know, you know the public,you know the public nuisance or
the, you know the minister,society guy, you know, you know,
(33:01):
and it's just, it's just, it'sgood to to know my worth and
know that that I am contributingto society and I just, I just
know that once it's all said anddone for me, when, when,
hopefully, I'm in a deathbed,when I die or whatever, right,
and I can look at my family'seyes and and know that not only
just influenced them thatsurround me but also generations
of folks that have beenunderrepresented and underserved
(33:24):
and given them an opportunityto be able to provide for their
families financially but also bean asset to the community, not
only throughout the state, buteven the nation, because when
you work with the Forest Service, you go and fight fire all
throughout the country.
So it's a great feeling.
Honestly, I'm looking forwardto more opportunities like this
(33:50):
and wanted to just continue toshare my story because people
will be surprised that, you know, by me being in fire camp like,
where a lot of people thinkthat you know you're in prison
right.
Like you know you don't havetoo many options when you come
home to be successful, but youactually do so I just want to
continue to spread thatawareness about it.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Well, I, you know your story is inspirational and
a true story of redemption, andso I thank you for sharing it.
And it's interesting to me as Ithink about the stereotype that
so many people carry around isthey think, oh well, you know,
felons, like, are almost quote,unquote.
You know, like, like, let'sstick them on the front lines of
(34:35):
fighting fires because you knowthat's just a good place to to
put them.
I mean, I've heard thosecomments a lot, but actually, as
you talk through this, you, you, when you, when you went into
fire camp, like they wereforming you into, I mean, you,
you might have been a tough guybehind bars, but you're out
there, a different environment.
(34:55):
The old dude calls you soft orkind of intimated that right,
and you got to get, you got toget your stuff in order and then
you, actually, you turn thisinto a career.
I mean, what more inspiringthing can there be than that?
So, so I I'm wondering if youcould, if you could, give me a
message for your.
(35:16):
I don't know how old you arewhen you started to get, how old
you were, rather, when youstarted to to run on into
trouble on the streets.
But let's just choose an age,like, let's say, 16, your
current age.
What message would you giveyour 16 year old self right now,
like if you could go back andtalk to him.
What would you tell him?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Um, I think the first thing I'll say is you're great,
right.
You know you worthy of beingable to be what you want to be,
like it was.
It was a time I remember like Iwanted to be a lawyer.
I thought of all types ofbusinessmen, right, like all the
different things, and I justfelt like it was too far fetched
for me, right, like I rememberI tell folks this all the time.
I remember, you know, runningaround the streets and stuff,
(36:04):
seeing red engines and trucks,and I never thought that that
could be me, because I neverseen nobody that looked like me.
So that was never something Ithought about.
It wasn't an option for me.
I felt like it was.
Either you had to be, so successlooked like either you had to
be in the streets, right, or youhad to be an entertainer of
(36:27):
some sort, right.
So if I could tell my youngerself was like you know, just
because you don't see yourselfor you don't, you know, think
that you can probably do it.
I think you know you, you can,right.
I think that's where the youngfolks, they get discouraged and
(36:48):
then they want things fast,right Like the media
gratification on things, andit's like you got to be patient
right, like the immediategratification on things, and
it's like you got to be patient,you got to wait and you got to
research, you got to you know,put in the time and effort to be
great.
You know, but you have thepotential, you are great, like
it's in you, it's already in youand you know.
The biggest message would belike understand the power of
(37:09):
choice, like, regardless of thesituation you're in and where,
where you at, and theenvironment you in.
Like you, you have theopportunity to, to do what's
right, you know, and stay awayfrom the knuckleheads and stuff.
And I think that that couldhave really been, um, you know,
(37:31):
monumental and like it'd havebeen more um, it would have been
a real impact to hear thosetype of things and having being
like having a mentor right andsomebody that can help um, guide
and direct you, and seeing adifferent type of lifestyle.
But you know you're great man,you got it in, you can do what
you want to do.
Just understand your true powerthat you have within yourself
(37:54):
and your mind where can peoplego to learn more about your work
and support you?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I'm assuming that that there's a ability to donate
non-profit donate, online.
People go to your website,follow you on social media.
Where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
yeah, so, um, so, social media-wise, the website
is forestryfirerporg, and thenmy Instagram is royalraimey and
then our Instagram for FFRP isffrp, underscore ca.
Okay, and yeah, and if folkswant to come and donate, that
(38:34):
would be huge.
Every dollar counts, right, youhave a non-profit organization,
so 501c3, so you get a taxwrite-off at the more work that
we can actually do.
And, yeah, I'm excited tocontinue to.
(39:00):
You know, build with people.
That's, you know, that wants to.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You know, see change and give people opportunity and
to be successful in lifequestion for you before, but
before I get there is thereanything that we have not
covered today that you think, uh, listeners should know about
your work?
We've covered a lot of ground,but I just wanted to make sure I
wasn't cutting you short yeah,so we do have.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Uh, I've been really focusing on on building up my
buffalo hand crew um so I didn'tmention that.
We do have opportunities to goout on fires and um.
You know that obviously thattakes a lot of money because
it's, like you know, it's aprivate kind of um, private
contract crew kind of deal andit really gives the our
(39:45):
participants the opportunity toto go out on fires
professionally and from with mystaff, because we are, you know,
qualified to go out and and dothis work.
It's something that I'm tryingto focus on more and like when
it comes to fire suppression.
But the biggest um focus for usis doing transitional work
(40:08):
where I can hire some of thefolks that come out of my career
training program to do more tofill mitigation work, because we
know, like um, one effort thatwe need to continue to think
about is that we need to focuson, you know, the the
preventative measures, rightwhen it comes to wildland
firefighting and ffrp is theintersection between workforce
(40:29):
development, criminal justicereform and also climate
resiliency, um.
So I think we in a unique spaceto be able to touch on multiple
different areas while combatingthese fires, being able to
provide folks opportunity in theworkforce, um and also, you
know, help change folks lives,that folks that come out of
(40:51):
incarceration.
Um, quick fun fact for you, itcosts about 138,860 dollars to
house one person in californiaprison and I'll tell you if I
can get about a quarter of thatleave.
That maybe even like 20, 25 000that we can invest in in this
person coming home from prisonor even as in a marginalized
(41:13):
community.
Um, they can be able to to havea you know they can make about,
you know, 6,000 to a hundred Ka year with benefits, retirement
, and you add up to all thosenumbers, right, like it's, it's,
it can be as millions ofdollars that we, that we have
invested in when it comes to the, you know, social return on
(41:35):
investment.
And Cal Fire is hiring 2,400firefighters in the next five
years.
We have a forestry workershortage about, you know, 9,400,
.
You know labor shortage gapwhen it comes to forced labor by
2028.
(41:57):
So it's a lot of opportunitiesfor jobs and placement.
And, lastly, I would want to saythat we need to be more
proactive in the preventativework for folks going, you know,
outside of folks going to prison.
So I really want to start.
(42:18):
You know I did a little pilotin San Bernardino with this high
school program, but we reallyneed to, like, show folks that
they can actually do it whilethey're in you know elementary,
middle school, high schools,like be more proactive in
talking to them about differentcareer options, right, like I
think that's something that Ifeel like a lot of.
(42:40):
You know folks from people ofcolor that have the nice, good
occupations.
That's not like glamorized.
You know you got small businessowners.
You got lawyers, doctors, youknow electricians, all these
different you know.
You know trades.
You know like show more peopleof color and that's successful
(43:01):
in the, in the, in theoccupation, and mentor people
and show you know, show facemore at these career days and
stuff.
I think that's really importantto show people there's different
options out there.
You know social influencers.
You know folks in the media outthere.
You know social influencers.
You know folks in the media,entertainment, you know, and in
different aspects too, like it'sall these different jobs and
(43:22):
good paying jobs that I thinkfolks are not too much aware of
and we need to be more proactiveand you know being more of a
being in their community andshowing up to those for the kids
and just giving them theinspiration and power because
like yeah, I'm doing it in firecamp and prison, but like as a
nation, like how can we?
(43:43):
Or as a world, like in anycountry, like how can we?
You know, pay it forward andshow folks that you know these
are different options for them,instead of you know.
Like I said, when I was a youngkid, all I thought it was two
different ways to be successful.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
So, yeah, you know, as you, as you speak, I think
about you know the changingclimate.
Whether people call it globalwarming or climate changes
doesn't even matter, becauseit's changing and so we're
seeing fires in parts of thecountry that historically we
didn't see them, fires in partsof the country that historically
we didn't see them.
(44:18):
I'm from the East Coast andthere's fires in states where I
never remember at all havingfires when I was a kid.
So, as you say, theopportunities for these jobs
that typically people don't talkabout, especially in an urban
setting, I think your point is acritical one.
Like that, mentorship andseeing for kids in an urban
(44:39):
setting to see themselvesreflected in someone who's
working in the back country, butalso all over the country,
would be super powerful.
So you know again, I want toencourage listeners to learn
more about Royals nonprofit, thework that you're doing.
(44:59):
It's transformative.
You're humble about yourrecognition, but congratulations
, and also congratulations onthe pardon as well.
That's huge.
I want to just close with onehypothetical question for you.
Imagine you got the chance todesign a billboard for the side
(45:23):
of the freeway.
I'm not sure what freeway isclosest to your house in San
Bernardino, I don't know the 15or something, you got a chance
to design a billboard for theside of the freeway that people
saw as they drove by.
What does your billboard say tothe world about what you
believe, what you find, to beimportant in this life?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
You know I'm a Christian, so obviously you know
Jesus Christ is some.
You know that it got to be onthe billboard and what I believe
, but also to just there'll be acollage of things of, I think,
people you know, need to knowthat you're not the some.
You know some people makemistakes and they shouldn't be a
(46:08):
sum of one bad day or that youknow, or one mistake that folks
made, right.
I think we need to get into aplace where, you know, second
chances is real and I thinkhumans need to understand grace
and mercy for folks.
And you know you can turn itaround.
(46:30):
You know, because that'ssomething that I just believe in
and I have lived it, you know.
You know I've been on bothsides, kind of now, so I
understand that.
You know folks can change andmove forward and, you know, be
the best person you can be.
You know, just continue to grow, continue to educate yourselves
(46:50):
, continue to, you know, have anopen mind and be thoughtful
about what you do and and andlastly, like, think about how
you, like I said in yourdeathbed, like, what are your
last, like what would you wantyour legacy to be?
How have you contributed tosociety?
Because everybody have alimited time and there isn't is.
(47:12):
Are you doing everything youneed in order for you to make
true impact and change, and, um,and if you're living a healthy
and happy life, right, um, Ithink those are the things that
are definitely collaging in thatbillboard.
Um, and hopefully that can youknow, and sometimes some
inspiration thing or something Idon't know, but uh, nobody
(47:34):
hasn't ever asked me thatquestion, so that's, that's off
the cuff and off the fly so thatthat's how.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
That's how it's supposed to be.
So that's.
There's a reason.
I didn't ask you that inadvance, because you would have,
you would have planned it outand and uh.
So I appreciate that becausethat's authentic, the way you
have it, and what resonates forme is this whole impetus of
being able to turn things aroundright.
Your life exemplifies that and,as a Christian, you you know
(48:04):
there is no more redemptivesymbol than Jesus Christ.
So I think that's that's sopowerful and and I really thank
you for the time that you'vegiven today to our listeners,
for the work for the peopleyou've impacted, both the people
you know you've impacted andthen the people who you don't
(48:26):
even know you've impacted.
Right, because I'd imagine eachof those people who has gone
through your program 90% of themare not ending up back in the
criminal justice system and thathas a ripple effect in the
world Like that means functional, caring people back in
communities, doing good forother people, and that just is
(48:49):
good for humanity.
So thank you for yourcontribution to making this life
better for people.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Man, that's well said and that's something that I
think about all the time too.
It's like I ain't going to betoo long-winded, but I just can
imagine, like when it's all saidand done for myself, like when
you change, you know, 300-pluspeople's lives which we have.
You know that many peoplethrough our program, since,
(49:18):
technically, 2015, we've beenworking with people, but I can
imagine what now, the trajectoryof their lives, for their
families and their generations,right of their kids, kids, you
(49:53):
know they have a piece of, youknow, 300, 400 years that it
helped build the trajectory ofsomebody you know or their
families and you know, and whatthat can actually provide.
You know, now that you knowthat family member or you know
that son, a daughter, thathusband, that wife you know have
(50:14):
given um help with thisfinancial stability where they
can go to college now and nowthey could put them in a
position where they can, youknow, live in a different
neighborhood and a better livingcondition, right, um, and just
think about that generational umlane.
And now, that's why I'm so, I'mso happy and I'm so blessed and
(50:36):
um, it ain't me, you know, it'sGod to me.
So everything I do is not evenme, it's really God and um.
I give all the glory to him andum.
But just yeah, I see it, youknow, and I'm I'm just so
humbled and grateful um and andblessed.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Thank you.
Thank you, Chief Raymond.
I really, really appreciate andhave enjoyed our conversation
today.
I learned so much and I'mdefinitely going to go check out
and donate as well to theorganization and encourage
others to do it as well.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Thank you so much, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Thanks for joining us on the Hangout Podcast.
You can send us an email atpodcastinfo at protonme.
Many thanks to my daughter,maya, for editing this episode.
I'd also like to underline thatthis podcast is entirely
separate from my day job and, assuch, all opinions expressed
herein are mine and mine alone.
(51:33):
Thanks for coming on in andhanging out.
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