October 28, 2025 • 52 mins
Reyna Grande is a Mexican‑American novelist and memoirist whose work brings raw clarity to the immigrant experience, family separation, and the pursuit of belonging. Born in Iguala, Guerrero, Mexico, and having crossed into the U.S. as an undocumented child, Grande earned her BA and MFA in creative writing, and is a recipient of multiple awards including the American Book Award, the International Latino Book Award and the El Premio Aztlán Literary Award.
Grande’s major works include:
• Across a Hundred Mountains (2006) – a novel rooted in her own journey from Mexico to the U.S. as a child.
• Dancing with Butterflies (2009) – a novel exploring identity, trauma, and cultural memory.
• The Distance Between Us (2012) – a powerful memoir of her life before and after immigrating, which was also adapted into a young‑reader edition.
• A Dream Called Home (2018) – the sequel memoir continuing her story of striving, belonging and returning.
• A Ballad of Love and Glory (2022) – a sweeping historical novel set during the Mexican‑American War.
Exploring themes of immigration, identity, language, and the power of storytelling, Grande’s voice is profound and deeply human.
Learn more at reynagrande.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Welcome to the Hangout Podcast.
I'm your host, David Sheretta.
Come on in and hang out.
In this episode, I was honoredand privileged to have a
conversation with Reina Grande.
Reina is an acclaimed authorwhose powerful memoirs, The
(00:26):
Distance Between Us, and A DreamCalled Home illuminate the
realities of undocumentedchildhood immigration from
Mexico to the US.
Her work delves into themes offamily separation, language
trauma, and the pursuit of theAmerican dream.
(00:46):
In 2025, A Dream Called Home wasnamed one of the best books of
the 21st century by KirkisReviews.
Grande is also the author of thenovels Across a Hundred
Mountains, Dancing withButterflies, and the historical
epic A Ballad of Love and Glorythat is set during the
(01:06):
Mexican-American War.
We cover a wide range of topicsand themes in this illuminating
conversation, and I hope youenjoy it as much as I did.
Welcome, Reina.
Thank you so much for takingtime this afternoon for this
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Oh, thank you.
I'm very excited to be heretalking with you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
I thought we could we could start where I like to
start with all of theseconversations, which is with our
origins.
Uh our origin story.
So if you could share a bitabout who you are, where you
come from, both literally andfiguratively.
And then we'll I know much hasbeen written about that, so uh,
and then we'll we'll go fromthere.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Um, okay, well, my origin storybegins in Mexico.
I was born in the state ofGuerrero in a city called Iguala
de la Independencia.
And my father left uh Guerrerowhen I was two years old to come
to the US, and my mother leftwhen I was four to join my
(02:14):
father here in California.
So my childhood in Guerrero waswas a pretty difficult one
because I didn't have a fatheror a mother, and my siblings and
I were left behind um with mygrandparents.
And I would say that mychildhood is mostly defined by
(02:35):
the fear of being forgotten orabandoned or replaced.
Um and so when I think of mychildhood in Guerrero, it's
definitely with a lot ofsadness, but also some
nostalgia, you know, because asdifficult as life was there,
(02:56):
there were also some beautifulthings that that I miss about
living there in Mexico.
Um, so when I was nine, myfather came back and he brought
me and my siblings to Californiawith him.
And so I crossed the border whenI was nine years old there
through the Tijuana-San Diegoborder.
(03:19):
And I arrived in Los Angeles, Istarted fifth grade, and it was
a very difficult time for mebecause I had to adjust to not
just, you know, the challengesof being an immigrant in the
United States, like learning alanguage, uh learning a new
culture, a new way of life.
(03:40):
But what I would what wasdifficult for me was coming to
live with my father, whom Ihadn't seen since I was two
years old.
And so family separation and thetrauma of that separation is
something that definitely haslingered all this time.
And it's something that I writea lot about in my books, because
(04:03):
that is something that that isnot included in the
conversations when we talk aboutimmigration, is how it impacts
the family unit and the trauma,you know, that children
especially have to live with.
So that's my origin story, youknow.
I'm an immigrant here inCalifornia, um, English language
(04:25):
learner, uh first gen student.
I was the first in my family tograduate from university.
And now I'm really fortunate tohave a career as a storyteller.
Um reading and writing were mypassions as a young girl, and
they continue to be my passionsto this day, and I'm just
(04:48):
really, really fortunate andblessed to be making a living
from my art and to get to tellstories that center my Latino
community.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
Thank you for that.
And your name came to me kind ofthrough a number of different
avenues, but resoundinglythrough middle school students
here at Albert EinsteinAcademy's work where I work.
Uh the distance between us is uhfavorite in the in the school
library, and so um you knowthat's that your name kept
(05:23):
popping up over and over, and soyou've definitely had an impact
um and continue to.
So thank you for for sharingthat.
I I as I look at you here, andobviously this is an audio
podcast, but we're recordingthis on video, you have you're
wearing monarch butterflyearrings.
And I know that from some of myresearch and and seeing some
(05:45):
presentations you've done um andsome readings you've done, the
the monarch butterfly hassignificance to you and your
experience.
Can you can you share that umfor the listeners?
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
Well, I really love monarch butterflies.
Um, they have become a symbolfor the immigrant community
because as we know, you know,migration is not a crime, it's
an act of survival, and we seethat in in all in all all over,
right?
(06:18):
Like in in um animals and thesebeautiful insects that migrate
and humans migrate too, and wedo it as an act of survival, as
um out of necessity.
So for me, the monarch butterflyis such a beautiful symbol of
migration.
And when I was in Los Angeles,when I used, you know, was
(06:41):
living in Los Angeles, I hadthis really beautiful garden, a
butterfly garden, and mydaughter and I started uh taking
care of the monarch butterfliesthat would come to live in our
garden.
We actually ended up um racingmonarchs, like over a hundred
butterflies.
And it was such a beautifulexperience for my daughter
(07:04):
because it was my way ofteaching her about migration,
about her roots.
Um, it was a way to share alittle bit of myself and my
experiences.
And so now, you know, I I have abutterfly tattoo now.
I don't know if you can you cansee my butterfly tattoo, but
(07:26):
yeah, I'm all into butterflies.
Although I have to say that umfor for my my book uh Somewhere
We Are Human, which came outthree years ago, it's an
anthology of immigrant voices.
And I co-edited the book with umSonia Gignanzaka, who is a poet.
(07:48):
And when we were thinking aboutthe cover, we decided not to
have uh monarch butterflies onthe cover, even though our book
was about the immigrantcommunity and immigrant voices.
We decided instead to go withthe dandelion as a symbol for
(08:10):
migration, because one of thethings we realized or we thought
about was how everybody lovesbutterflies, right?
So the monarch butterfly as amigrant, um, everybody loves the
monarch.
We want to protect the monarch,you know.
Um, but with dandelions, peoplehate dandelions and they're
(08:33):
always trying to kill thedandelions in their gardens.
Yeah, they're seen as wheat.
They're seen as a wheat, butthey're actually like beneficial
plants, right?
They're medicinal plants thathave a lot of benefits, and we
don't acknowledge the benefitsof the dandelion.
Um, it is it has been verymaligned, um, and so we're
(08:58):
always trying to get rid of it.
And so we decided that thedandelion actually was a better
symbol for the way thatimmigrants are treated in this
country.
That, you know, this country uhoftentimes doesn't see the
benefit that we immigrantsprovide to the society, and
(09:20):
they're constantly trying to getrid of us, but here we are, you
know, and the dandelion is uh avery, very resilient and very
determined to survive.
So the dandelion has also becomemy favorite symbol for
migration.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
You might need another tattoo.
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
I'm gonna need a tattoo of the dandelion.
SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
The dandelion.
One of the things that struck meabout in in doing doing research
and looking at some of yourwritings, uh, you wrote a piece
for CNN about subtractivebilingualism.
And it kind of stemmed from, Ithink you were watching an
(10:06):
awards show or the Oscars orsomething where where where for
the first time actors werespeaking in Spanish.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Diego Luna spoke in Spanish.
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
Yeah.
And he said, he said, you know,we're here and we're not going
anywhere.
Um and so you wrote this piece.
Talk to us about the piece andand really what you were
expressing there.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Yeah, well, I mean, that's one of the things that I
write about is my languagetrauma.
Because when I arrived in the USand I started school in
California Public School, fifthgrade, I went to a school that
did not have a bilingualprogram.
(10:48):
It didn't really have resourcesfor immigrant children.
And so it was mostly a sink orswim situation.
And my teacher didn't speakSpanish much.
And um, she basically just, youknow, pointed to the corner of
her classroom and sent me there.
And that was like my first timefeeling voiceless and feeling
(11:10):
invisible.
Um, and so, you know, throughthe years as a young girl, I I
didn't want to spend my life inthe corner feeling voiceless and
invisible.
And so I worked very hard tolearn English, but it came at
the at the cost of my Spanishbecause after I left Mexico, I
(11:31):
never really had any a formaleducation in Spanish.
Everything was in English, andthe message that I received in
my classrooms was that I neededto learn English, and everything
had to be in English, all myreading, my writing, my
speaking, um, everything.
So then instead of learning anew language or adding a new
(11:55):
language, I was actually losinga language.
I was losing my mother tongue,and that's why, you know, it's
called the term is subtractivebilingualism, and and I hadn't I
hadn't heard of that term untilI was an adult.
And I realized that, yeah,that's what happened to me.
(12:16):
I was replacing my mother tonguewith English.
So I wasn't really becomingbilingual.
I was losing my connection to tomy country, my connection to my
culture and to my mother.
And so it was uh uh uh it was avery traumatic experience the
way I learned English.
(12:38):
And it wasn't until I was anadult that I started to be more
proactive in like trying to getmy Spanish back.
I started taking Spanishclasses, and then I began to
translate my own work intoSpanish as a way to teach myself
um Spanish.
(12:59):
But it's still, you know, it'sit the consequences are still
something that I see, you know,every day.
Like, for example, I because ofmy language trauma, I didn't
teach um Spanish to my children,and that is something that I
deeply regret every single day.
(13:20):
I regret it.
My son does not speak Spanishbeyond level one.
My daughter uh also didn't speakSpanish, but then when we moved
to Northern California, thelocal school had a dual language
immersion program.
(13:40):
And I put her in that programand she became bilingual because
of that program, not because ofme, but because of that program.
And so now my daughter is uh isa senior in high school and
she's gonna get her seal ofbiliteracy from the state of
California when she graduates.
And so that makes me reallyhappy, and it also makes me
(14:02):
happy to know that theseprograms, like you know, the
dual language um immersionprograms uh exist because
children are able to becomebilingual in uh in a way that is
not traumatic, you know, in away where they're not forced to
sacrifice anything aboutthemselves.
(14:26):
So they are becoming bilingualin in the right sense, right?
They are adding a language,they're not subtracting a
language.
They are be they are l more, notless.
And so to me that that thatmakes me really happy to know
that my daughter's bilingualismum has come in a way where she
(14:50):
has not had to sacrificeanything about who she is.
SPEAKER_02 (14:55):
And if I'm not mistaken, she was you you were
on a trip to Mexico, she wasspeaking to your relatives and
really relishing the experience.
I think this was when she wasyounger, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like six months after Iput her in that dual language
immersion program.
Um six months after I took herto Mexico for the Christmas
holiday, and not only was shespeaking Spanish to my
relatives, she was also singingthe the Spanish Christmas songs
(15:27):
because she had learned them atschool.
And she was so happy because wewould go to the Posadas and she
was able to sing along to thosesongs.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
Kind of a full full circle moment for your family in
some ways, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:44):
On the topic of family separation, uh, you know,
I had asked, or actually theyasked me, a number of our
students wanted me to ask yousome questions because I think
that that resonates so deeplywith students and with children,
right?
Anybody thinking about one ortwo of their parents leaving
with an with an you know no ideaabout when they're coming back.
(16:06):
And yours, for you it happenedin it, this is before you know
WhatsApp and FaceTime, so youmight go months and months with
no news.
Um, one of the uh middle schoolgirls asked, How how could you
still love your parents afterbeing put through that
(16:27):
experience?
That's coming from a13-year-old.
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
Wow, that is, yeah, that's uh that's such a tough
question.
I mean, I have been working onthat for a long time, you know,
because I have come tounderstand my parents in a way
that I didn't when I was a younggirl.
Um I think as I have matured, myunderstanding has also matured,
(16:54):
and I see that my parents werealso put in very difficult
situations, you know.
Um they were victims of povertyand inequality and oppression,
and they were forced to makechoices that no parent in the
(17:15):
world should ever have to make,which is to leave their children
behind and go to another countryso that they could find a way to
provide for them, right?
And so for me, like I yes, Iwent through a period where I
felt um angry and resentful, butthen I learned to understand and
(17:37):
to have more compassion for myparents.
And that also, you know, camelater when I became a mother
myself, when I look at mychildren, and every day I am so
grateful that I don't have tomake the tough choices my
parents had to make.
That I get to, you know, be withmy kids because I'm able to
(18:01):
provide for them.
I don't I am not in a situationwhere I have to make desperate
decisions that are gonna tratraumatize my kids for the rest
of their lives, you know.
And so I have so much morecompassion for my parents.
Um I have a lot of love for thembecause I understand that they
(18:24):
didn't have the resources to gethelp, you know, and that they
were not able to break from ourintergenerational trauma.
Um they also suffered a lot.
And I think that if they hadreceived some help, maybe that
(18:46):
it would help them to be betterparents.
So that those are the kinds ofthings that I've learned to
understand and and also I Idon't just forgive and
understand for my parents, I'mdoing it for my children as
well, because I don't want toshow up damaged, you know.
(19:10):
I don't want to show up with allthis trauma and dump it on my
kids.
And so I know that I need towork on my feelings.
I need to develop, um, I need towork towards having a healthier
relationship with my parents sothat then I can have a healthier
(19:33):
relationship with my children.
So I'm doing the work for thefor my kids.
Um, and that's how we breakcycles, right?
And that for me has been apriority to break those cycles
and to work on myself so thatI'm not passing on that that
(19:54):
baggage to my kids, and I'm notmaking my kids suffer because of
my pain and my trauma.
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
It's a really profound way of thinking about
your legacy, right?
We all often think about what'sour legacy for our kids.
I think when we say that, mostpeople are thinking it's a in a
material sense, right?
Like yours is actually uh theway you express it is a is real
spiritual and internal and aparadigm shift.
(20:26):
Um in in thinking about the thegenerations, um I can't stop
thinking about your grandma.
I think it's a your paternalpaternal grandma, right?
Uh Annie Guala, and I I saw inone of the YouTube videos, I
think in my mind I'd made herlike this giant figure
physically, right?
And she's tiny.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Oh, you're talking about mymaternal grandmother.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
I mean, they're both tiny.
Okay, so so maybe I'm mixing thetwo.
Who which was it paternalgrandma was the one that you
that was my evil grandma, evilgrandma, right?
Yes, and so when I think abouteven you know, when people turn
out evil, but however we definethat, there's a there's that
trauma background, I'm sure, tothat as well, right?
(21:17):
And so then that gets passed onto your dad, and you know, it
just yes.
Um I that was something that Ithink was really both powerful
and also refreshing aboutespecially the distance between
us, is it's not an idealizedversion of the the welcoming
grandma in Mexico who's like,okay, kids, let's get up and
(21:38):
we're gonna make tamales todayor whatever.
It was like a that was likereally rough survival on the on
the edge of not making it.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
Yeah, well, uh yeah, so I have my my two
grandmothers.
Um I recently posted a pictureon my Instagram of my maternal
grandmother, who's my sweetgrandmother.
SPEAKER_02 (22:03):
Not the evil one.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
I don't really post about the evil ones.
Uh no, but my maternalgrandmother, she was very, very
kind.
She was very poor, um, but shehad a lot of love.
And so even though we we were,you know, we didn't really have
much food to eat, we wedefinitely had a lot of love for
(22:29):
my grandmother.
And that made things a littlebetter for us.
With my paternal grandmother,she was not very kind to us when
we lived with her.
She mistreated us a lot, and sheuh would spend the money, you
know, that my parents would sendfor us.
(22:51):
She would spend it on otherthings, and so she just made
life so much harder at a timewhen what we needed was some
love and support, you know.
And and so I definitely had towork very hard on like forgiving
my grandma and understanding herand trying to like, you know,
(23:13):
give her some love because Iknow that she also had a very
difficult life.
And I think that my father, youknow, he suffered a lot with her
too.
And so he kind of recreated alot of the the toxic the
toxicity in his home, in hischildhood home, he kind of
(23:38):
recreated that with us.
And so I I kind of wish he hadworked harder to not do that,
but um sometimes, you know, theabused children become the
abusive parents, right?
Um yeah, and with my maternalgrandmother, I feel that I love
(24:02):
her so much, and that issomething that really, really
hurt me when when I came toCalifornia.
One of the things I lost when Iimmigrated was my relationship
with my grandmother because Ididn't see her very much after I
left.
It took me almost eight years tocome back to Mexico when I saw
(24:26):
her again.
And then after that, I saw hermaybe three more times, and then
she passed away when I was in mymid-20s.
And so that's a great sorrow forme, you know, having lost that
relationship that I reallytreasure with my grandmother.
But what I posted on myInstagram the other day was that
(24:49):
even though my grandmother hasbeen gone from my life for many,
many years, uh, she's alwayswith me because I write so much
about her.
And she has appeared in almostall my books.
You know, whether I'm writing anovel or I'm writing my memoirs,
(25:09):
there she is, you know, my mygrandmother shows up.
And so it's a beautiful thingthat I have seen with writing,
is that it really helps me tostay connected with my my
ancestors and with, you know,the people that are no longer
here physically with me, butthey're in my heart.
(25:31):
And so I get to bring them backto life through my writing.
And I I find that to be such abeautiful thing that a gift that
my writing has given me.
SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
I think I recall you saying, and in a maybe it was a
speech that you gave where yousaid that some people write
memoirs based on their memories,but that someone who was
inspirational to you, maybe itwas a professor or a teacher or
coach, mentor, said that theywrite their memoirs based on the
(26:05):
things that they would ratherforget.
So difficult, difficult things,things that we've we've perhaps
uh suppressed, um, etc.
How do you handle thatexperience, the memoir writing
experience, or write writing anovel for that matter, because
they they seem to they seem tobe you know cross-pollinating at
(26:28):
all times, anyway, is what youas you just described.
How do you handle thatemotionally uh and work your way
through it?
I'm just interested at that fromthat writing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Yeah, so so so the what you're talking about is um
advice that Sandra Cisneros, whois my my literary godmother, uh
my inspiration, she the advicethat she gives is is that um we
should write about the things wewish we could forget.
(27:01):
And that is something that Ifeel I've been doing since I was
a teenager, because everything Iwrite are the things that I wish
I could forget, because they'revery painful, painful things,
right?
And that's why like my writingpractice has been very tied to
my trauma in a way where mostlywhat I write about are very
(27:22):
traumatic experiences that I'vegone through.
But the reason why I've donethat is because my writing has
been, you know, therapy for me.
It's my way of processing allthis trauma, it's my way of um
(27:43):
trying to find healing byunderstanding the things that
I've gone through.
It has really helped me to umtransform my trauma instead of
letting my trauma transform me,like I'm transforming it into
works of art that I can thenshare with other people.
(28:08):
And it's very difficult to writememoir or even fiction, you
know, because a lot of fictiontends to be autobiographical,
and so, or at least my fiction,um, when I write, I'm trying to
process these things that happento me and to and to understand
why they happen and to learn toreally learn the lessons that
(28:32):
these experiences have taughtme.
And I have to confront them aspainful as they are.
And it's almost like like havingthorns, you know, like you have
all these thorns stuck on yourflesh, and what you're doing is
you gotta pull them out.
And as you're pulling them out,it really hurts.
(28:54):
But once you yank them out andthe pain subsides, you feel
better.
And now you don't have to, youknow, carry that thorn um with
you.
So that's kind of how I seewriting memoir, is that when I'm
writing these very painfulmemories, I'm pulling out the
thorns.
And yes, it's gonna hurt.
(29:16):
Uh in the act of of writing,it's gonna hurt, but once
they're out, they're out, andthen they're no longer hurting
me anymore.
So I'm basically um no longergiving them the power to
continue to hurt me, and andthat's what I really love about
(29:36):
about writing down all thesethings that I have gone through.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
You you talk about the fact that after you
graduated from from college andand really where you honed your
your the craft, the writingcraft, that the piece that they
hadn't yet taught you was aboutthe per the profession, the how
to get published, the navigatingthat whole piece and I think if
(30:02):
I recall correctly your first uhI don't know if there were query
letters or whatever you set outlike 30 or so came back with you
tell tell the story because I'mgonna get the facts wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
Yeah well it was my first novel.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
Okay.
Yeah it was your first novel.
So you you you had written itand and I I think it someone
flippantly said you're a goodwriter but no one wants to read
a book about a Mexican.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
Yeah nobody's gonna care.
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
No one's gonna care.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Um so so talk about that and then how you how like
how do how does someone how doyou overcome that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
Yeah uh I think because I I grew up with
rejection I learned how to umnot let it you know bring me
down so much.
Uh I but yeah when I was a youngwriter I was you know um 27
(31:10):
around there I found an agentwho started sending out my first
novel to editors and 26 of themrejected the novel.
Number 27 came back and said yesI want to publish this book and
that was like one of thehappiest days of my life you
(31:30):
know when I when I got that yesum but yeah no one of the things
that is difficult for forwriters for aspiring writers is
really knowing about thebusiness side right a lot of
times you know we focus a lot onour craft and it's our art we're
making art but once we we wewant to get published it's very
(31:55):
challenging because a lot oftimes we don't have the
knowledge or the resources orthe net you know the connections
to help us get our workspublished and the publishing
industry unfortunately is notvery diverse and so for writers
of color it can be quitechallenging knocking on those
(32:16):
doors and getting a lot ofrejections.
And then for immigrant writersyou know it's very challenging
and oftentimes we are told thatpeople don't really want any
more immigrant stories or thatpeople are not going to care
about immigrant stories.
And so that's what I heard whenI was trying to get my first
(32:36):
novel published and my firstnovel was about a young
immigrant girl looking for hermissing father.
It was somewhat autobiographicalalthough what I was exploring in
that novel was not so much thelife that I had lived but more
(32:59):
like the life I might have livedif my father had never come back
for me.
Because that is something thathaunts me to this day when I ask
myself like where would I be nowif my father had not come back
for me you know and so I try toimagine like in in the
multiverse right these differentversions of my life playing out
(33:23):
if things had been different.
And so in Across 100 Mountains Iended up writing a story of a
young girl whose father comes tothe United States to look for
work and he disappears so hedoesn't come back and she ends
up having to leave her hometownand go look for him.
(33:44):
And she's basically anunaccompanied minor right coming
to the border by herself andshe's trying to find her father
and and uh reunite with herfather.
So that was a story that I hadwritten and it was inspired by
my fear as a little girl that myfather wouldn't come back and
that he would forget me and thatI would never see him again.
(34:07):
So that book is actually turning20 next year.
It's celebrating its 20thanniversary and I'm gonna be
celebrating 20 years of being aprofessional writer.
It's been such a wonderfuljourney.
I feel very proud of the booksthat I have published and I am
(34:34):
finishing two books right nowthat are gonna come out next
year.
And so yeah that has been mytrajectory as a writer and I'm
gonna be turning 50 in a fewdays and so I'm also starting a
new journey as a 50 year old.
So a lot of things have happenedin my life that I'm really
(34:56):
really grateful for.
And so I'm starting this newdecade of my life with a lot of
gratitude.
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
You you talked about in one of your interviews this
term of being an emerging writerright like I think it was after
your first book and they saidhey congratulations you're an
emerging writer and then youbecame a something else writer
there were like adjectives thatwere attached to them right and
so at what point did you did youreally go wow like I've arrived
(35:23):
this is I am I'm a professionalwriter um I'm being sought out
to speak and and and you knowjust like at what point like
just also given given everythingyou'd gone through in your life
as you as you reference theamount of rejection yeah right
just for forget about thepublishing industry that was
(35:44):
that's low rejection compared tothe other rejection that you
faced right so like at whatpoint did you get to go wow I've
really I've arrived I don't knowif I feel that way yet I mean
you know I still feel that I'mstill an emerging writer uh but
yeah some years ago I think itwas after my my fourth book was
(36:10):
published that I I still keptcalling myself an emerging
writer and then a friend of minesaid Raina you have emerged I
was like no I don't I'm stillemerging um but no like now I
(36:31):
know people see me as anestablished writer and I haven't
quite wrapped my head aroundthat one like I feel that I
still have a ways to go to feelestablished but I and maybe
that's the the nature of art itright like like there's always
that that little edge of itwhere you're like I never like
(36:55):
completely get there because I'mnot supposed to completely get
there.
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Maybe it's the journey right right yeah no and
I and that that has been thecase for me because I I always
feel like I'm always learningabout writing you know every
book teaches me something newabout writing so I never feel
that oh I know everything aboutyou know about my art and it's
(37:22):
like I'm gonna be a lifelonglearner I want to keep writing
so I can keep learning moreabout being a storyteller about
you know the craft I want to getbetter I I do want to one day
look back and feel that I amestablished.
But I think um I also want tostay humble you know have
(37:48):
humility and know that mywriting is not perfect that I
could do better next time andI'm always striving to do better
next time.
SPEAKER_02 (38:00):
This is another question from one of the the
students um where I work whatadvice would you if you could go
back in time what advice wouldyou give your I think you were
nine when you first crossed intoCalifornia right am I do I have
that right?
Yeah what advice would you givenow knowing what you know as
(38:22):
you're approaching the the thehalf century mark um what would
you tell that nine year old whywould I tell her I mean I would
tell her that everything isgoing to be okay that she just
needs to stay strong hold on toher dreams she's gonna make
(38:48):
mistakes and that's okay that'spart of life and as long as she
keeps going you know she's gonnaget rerouted once in a while
she's gonna lose her way but aslong as she always comes back to
her path she's going to be justfine actually she's gonna be
(39:09):
more than fine she's gonna beamazing I I had to chuckle uh
there's that scene in inDistance Between Us where you
think you just crossed theborder and you're driving and
you want to go to McDonald's yousaw the golden arches you're
like peeking out and I think Iknow which one that is it's in
(39:29):
San Isidro there's a McDonald'sright there and that they that
they the the uh the guy the manwho was helping smuggle you guys
across gave you sunflower seedsand you're like really I'm
coming to the richest uh therichest country in the world and
you've heard all these idealistidealistic things um uh and
(39:50):
you're giving me bird feed um soobviously that was a a little
bit of a of a comical uh piecethere but in all seriousness
what parts of of the theidealized experience in the US
um were completely not what youexperienced them to be if that
(40:11):
makes sense so you'd grown up itsounds like you heard all these
stories right like like I thinkit was a cousin who said look
see these dollars like yeah myaunt and also look at they're
growing on the trees everywherelike all you need to do is just
shake the tree how much of yourexperience I mean you've spoken
very lovingly about the UnitedStates and and um as well as
(40:32):
about Mexico but what parts ofthe experience in the US were so
different from the idealizedpart?
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
I mean well yeah when my aunt was telling us that
the trees here grow dollars forleaves that was such a lie um
and that is something that a lotof immigrants come here thinking
that they're gonna make a lot ofyou know money and then go home
(41:00):
and build their houses and havea great life but when they come
here they realize that life isvery expensive in the United
States, you know, and thatdollars don't go as far as they
thought they would and then theyhave to work two, three jobs to
be able to support themselvesand their families and to be
(41:21):
able to send money back to theirhome countries.
Many of them you know have tocram into like small apartments
just so that they could affordthe rent and they have to share
um a room with a bunch of peopleand like it's just like really
difficult and and that issomething that they don't talk
(41:42):
about back home, right?
Back in our countries likethere's this romanticized um
story that about what life isgoing to be like when you get
here and they don't talk abouthow difficult it is to survive
here in this country.
(42:14):
You know it's like I'm nineyears old and all of a sudden
now I'm a criminal because Icrossed the border without
permission just because I wantedto live with my father, you know
and so um like dealing with thatthat that was not part of my
identity right that I was anquote unquote illegal alien.
(42:40):
That was very traumatic and thenalso um being uh uh racialized
in a way like I hadn't been inMexico like all of a sudden now
I'm hyper aware of my skin colorand my you know my name and and
(43:01):
um just my cultural identity wasconstantly being criticized and
then I had to I started todevelop this shame and and this
inferiority because I was abrown Mexican Spanish speaking
kid.
(43:21):
So like those things I feel likeyou know we don't really talk a
lot about um in Mexico and evento this day you know even to
this day like recently I was uhI went to Mexico um in May to
participate in a conference andwe were talking about you know
(43:45):
Latino artists in in the US andI'm and and not just Latino
artists but like Latinos indifferent sectors of society and
I mentioned um at the conferencehow only like in the in in the
publishing industry only about7% of authors are Latino that in
(44:11):
the film industry you know onlyabout like 5% 6% of actors with
leading roles are Latino onlyabout 6% are you know lawyers or
physicians or engineers or youknow it like the percentage is
so low.
And and people in Mexico when Imentioned those those um numbers
(44:36):
they were completely shocked andand that was something that they
don't think about right of howwhat it's like to um be in a
place where you have to liveunder all this systemic
oppression where we are not youknow welcome in certain spaces
(44:59):
where we fight constantly haveto be fighting for a seat at the
table.
You know um I was I I don't Idon't know if you you read an
article that I I wrote someyears ago um for the Washington
Post where I mentioned how I hadgone to a party for authors it
(45:20):
was a literary gala at theLibrary of Congress and I was
mistaken for a waitress.
And and and so like you knowlike so that's what like I talk
about like living here in theUnited States we we're
constantly you know being beingforced to fight for our right to
(45:44):
take up space.
And there's a lot of obstaclesthat we have to overcome and
that is something that people inMexico and you know Latin
America don't seem to understandthe challenges that we Latinos
are facing in in this country.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
It's almost like the way it's presented is just a
one-dimensional view of the USprobably a lot of based on media
representations right like thethe material wealth side of
things like you can do this andif you're in this profession.
In in a lot of my travels inLatin America I always get the
question oh I'm a I'm acarpenter I'm a such and such
(46:25):
how much would I earn in theUnited States?
Like and as you say there's alot of context that gets lost in
that calculation.
Right it's like you know yeahyeah you can earn five times as
much or ten times as much andthen wait till you see how life
is like where you have to livewho you have to live with what
opportunities you will not haveaccess to readily you know so
(46:50):
well I'm gonna say though likesomething my mother used to say
was that I'll rather be poorhere than in Mexico.
SPEAKER_01 (46:59):
She would say that all the time I would rather be
poor here than in Mexico.
And you know she's right becauseyeah I mean as poor as you are
here in the United States you'renever gonna be as poor as you
were back in your country youknow I mean it's just and also
(47:20):
like um I think a lot ofimmigrants are willing to put up
with all those challenges herefor their kids, right?
For the next generation.
That that's really the Americandream.
It's not so much for themselves,it's for their children.
And so they are willing to makethose sacrifices because they
(47:43):
want their kids to have a shotand so I understand I understand
that you know and and it's it'sum it's something that is so
admirable in the immigrantcommunity the the lengths that
they go through the sacrificesthey make all everything they're
(48:03):
willing to do without as long astheir kids have a chance.
SPEAKER_02 (48:08):
You've been very generous with your time and I
know we had talked about um youknow wrapping this up in in less
than an hour but I before I haveone last question for you but I
wanted to see if there'sanything that I have not touched
on that maybe kind of jumpingaround in your mind as we had
this conversation that you thinkno no I'll I'll take the
(48:29):
questions you have from thestudents.
Are these from the students orno no this no this one was a
hypothetical one for me.
The two from the students werewhat would you what would you
tell your um your young self andthen how could you how could you
love your family still um tothis day um but I I wanted to
wrap with just a hypotheticaland it's it's perhaps a little
(48:52):
bit of an odd question to put toan author because you you you
write all the time and this isyou know you have the you have
the the the page as your as yourmedium but if you had the
opportunity to create abillboard we're just going to do
this intellectual exercise tocreate a billboard on the side
of the freeway wherever youwhere you where you live uh what
(49:13):
would um what would renagrande's billboard say about
what you believe in about umabout your views on life as
people are driving by most ofthem are going by at 70 and
sometimes they're going by atseven miles an hour when they're
in traffic wow that's uh that'sa challenging question I mean
(49:36):
the first thing that popped inmy mind as I was listening to
you was don't give up in big bigbold letters don't give up um I
think sometimes people need tobe reminded of that you know
because they get overwhelmedwith all the challenges that
life is throwing their way and Ifeel like you know as long as we
(49:59):
don't give up and we just keepgoing we're gonna get through it
you know we're gonna get throughthat um and that is something
that I tell myself a lot too youknow since I was a young girl
going through all thesechallenges that was the one
thing I always told myself isdon't give up because that is
(50:20):
really when when you lose thefight is when you when you give
up on yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (50:25):
You know everybody else could give up on you but as
long as you don't give up onyourself you will you will
succeed you know it's gonna behard but for me that's an
important message.
SPEAKER_02 (50:39):
Well thank you so much it's been an honor it's
been a pleasure and and reallyan inspiration to speak with you
and and to hear a little bitabout your stories and amplify
what's in your books with thereal life relating of it.
So thank you for generosity umand congratulations on 20 years
(51:04):
yeah 20 years 50 years and manymore to come thank you so much I
really appreciate all yourquestions I appreciate your
students' questions um and yeahand I just want to you know wish
them all the best I want to youknow encourage them to continue
(51:26):
to pursue their dreams to keepgoing you know keep believing in
themselves and to not give up onthemselves and in their dreams
and on their families thanks forjoining us on the Hangout
Podcast you can send us an emailat podcastinfo at proton.me many
(51:50):
thanks to my daughter Maya forediting this episode I'd also
like to underline that thispodcast is entirely separate
from my day job and as such allopinions expressed herein are
mine and mine alone.
Thanks for coming on in andhanging out
Welcome to the Hangout Podcast.
I'm your host, David Sheretta.
Come on in and hang out.
In this episode, I was honoredand privileged to have a
conversation with Reina Grande.
Reina is an acclaimed authorwhose powerful memoirs, The
(00:26):
Distance Between Us, and A DreamCalled Home illuminate the
realities of undocumentedchildhood immigration from
Mexico to the US.
Her work delves into themes offamily separation, language
trauma, and the pursuit of theAmerican dream.
(00:46):
In 2025, A Dream Called Home wasnamed one of the best books of
the 21st century by KirkisReviews.
Grande is also the author of thenovels Across a Hundred
Mountains, Dancing withButterflies, and the historical
epic A Ballad of Love and Glorythat is set during the
(01:06):
Mexican-American War.
We cover a wide range of topicsand themes in this illuminating
conversation, and I hope youenjoy it as much as I did.
Welcome, Reina.
Thank you so much for takingtime this afternoon for this
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Oh, thank you.
I'm very excited to be heretalking with you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
I thought we could we could start where I like to
start with all of theseconversations, which is with our
origins.
Uh our origin story.
So if you could share a bitabout who you are, where you
come from, both literally andfiguratively.
And then we'll I know much hasbeen written about that, so uh,
and then we'll we'll go fromthere.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Um, okay, well, my origin storybegins in Mexico.
I was born in the state ofGuerrero in a city called Iguala
de la Independencia.
And my father left uh Guerrerowhen I was two years old to come
to the US, and my mother leftwhen I was four to join my
(02:14):
father here in California.
So my childhood in Guerrero waswas a pretty difficult one
because I didn't have a fatheror a mother, and my siblings and
I were left behind um with mygrandparents.
And I would say that mychildhood is mostly defined by
(02:35):
the fear of being forgotten orabandoned or replaced.
Um and so when I think of mychildhood in Guerrero, it's
definitely with a lot ofsadness, but also some
nostalgia, you know, because asdifficult as life was there,
(02:56):
there were also some beautifulthings that that I miss about
living there in Mexico.
Um, so when I was nine, myfather came back and he brought
me and my siblings to Californiawith him.
And so I crossed the border whenI was nine years old there
through the Tijuana-San Diegoborder.
(03:19):
And I arrived in Los Angeles, Istarted fifth grade, and it was
a very difficult time for mebecause I had to adjust to not
just, you know, the challengesof being an immigrant in the
United States, like learning alanguage, uh learning a new
culture, a new way of life.
(03:40):
But what I would what wasdifficult for me was coming to
live with my father, whom Ihadn't seen since I was two
years old.
And so family separation and thetrauma of that separation is
something that definitely haslingered all this time.
And it's something that I writea lot about in my books, because
(04:03):
that is something that that isnot included in the
conversations when we talk aboutimmigration, is how it impacts
the family unit and the trauma,you know, that children
especially have to live with.
So that's my origin story, youknow.
I'm an immigrant here inCalifornia, um, English language
(04:25):
learner, uh first gen student.
I was the first in my family tograduate from university.
And now I'm really fortunate tohave a career as a storyteller.
Um reading and writing were mypassions as a young girl, and
they continue to be my passionsto this day, and I'm just
(04:48):
really, really fortunate andblessed to be making a living
from my art and to get to tellstories that center my Latino
community.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
Thank you for that.
And your name came to me kind ofthrough a number of different
avenues, but resoundinglythrough middle school students
here at Albert EinsteinAcademy's work where I work.
Uh the distance between us is uhfavorite in the in the school
library, and so um you knowthat's that your name kept
(05:23):
popping up over and over, and soyou've definitely had an impact
um and continue to.
So thank you for for sharingthat.
I I as I look at you here, andobviously this is an audio
podcast, but we're recordingthis on video, you have you're
wearing monarch butterflyearrings.
And I know that from some of myresearch and and seeing some
(05:45):
presentations you've done um andsome readings you've done, the
the monarch butterfly hassignificance to you and your
experience.
Can you can you share that umfor the listeners?
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
Well, I really love monarch butterflies.
Um, they have become a symbolfor the immigrant community
because as we know, you know,migration is not a crime, it's
an act of survival, and we seethat in in all in all all over,
right?
(06:18):
Like in in um animals and thesebeautiful insects that migrate
and humans migrate too, and wedo it as an act of survival, as
um out of necessity.
So for me, the monarch butterflyis such a beautiful symbol of
migration.
And when I was in Los Angeles,when I used, you know, was
(06:41):
living in Los Angeles, I hadthis really beautiful garden, a
butterfly garden, and mydaughter and I started uh taking
care of the monarch butterfliesthat would come to live in our
garden.
We actually ended up um racingmonarchs, like over a hundred
butterflies.
And it was such a beautifulexperience for my daughter
(07:04):
because it was my way ofteaching her about migration,
about her roots.
Um, it was a way to share alittle bit of myself and my
experiences.
And so now, you know, I I have abutterfly tattoo now.
I don't know if you can you cansee my butterfly tattoo, but
(07:26):
yeah, I'm all into butterflies.
Although I have to say that umfor for my my book uh Somewhere
We Are Human, which came outthree years ago, it's an
anthology of immigrant voices.
And I co-edited the book with umSonia Gignanzaka, who is a poet.
(07:48):
And when we were thinking aboutthe cover, we decided not to
have uh monarch butterflies onthe cover, even though our book
was about the immigrantcommunity and immigrant voices.
We decided instead to go withthe dandelion as a symbol for
(08:10):
migration, because one of thethings we realized or we thought
about was how everybody lovesbutterflies, right?
So the monarch butterfly as amigrant, um, everybody loves the
monarch.
We want to protect the monarch,you know.
Um, but with dandelions, peoplehate dandelions and they're
(08:33):
always trying to kill thedandelions in their gardens.
Yeah, they're seen as wheat.
They're seen as a wheat, butthey're actually like beneficial
plants, right?
They're medicinal plants thathave a lot of benefits, and we
don't acknowledge the benefitsof the dandelion.
Um, it is it has been verymaligned, um, and so we're
(08:58):
always trying to get rid of it.
And so we decided that thedandelion actually was a better
symbol for the way thatimmigrants are treated in this
country.
That, you know, this country uhoftentimes doesn't see the
benefit that we immigrantsprovide to the society, and
(09:20):
they're constantly trying to getrid of us, but here we are, you
know, and the dandelion is uh avery, very resilient and very
determined to survive.
So the dandelion has also becomemy favorite symbol for
migration.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
You might need another tattoo.
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
I'm gonna need a tattoo of the dandelion.
SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
The dandelion.
One of the things that struck meabout in in doing doing research
and looking at some of yourwritings, uh, you wrote a piece
for CNN about subtractivebilingualism.
And it kind of stemmed from, Ithink you were watching an
(10:06):
awards show or the Oscars orsomething where where where for
the first time actors werespeaking in Spanish.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Diego Luna spoke in Spanish.
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
Yeah.
And he said, he said, you know,we're here and we're not going
anywhere.
Um and so you wrote this piece.
Talk to us about the piece andand really what you were
expressing there.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Yeah, well, I mean, that's one of the things that I
write about is my languagetrauma.
Because when I arrived in the USand I started school in
California Public School, fifthgrade, I went to a school that
did not have a bilingualprogram.
(10:48):
It didn't really have resourcesfor immigrant children.
And so it was mostly a sink orswim situation.
And my teacher didn't speakSpanish much.
And um, she basically just, youknow, pointed to the corner of
her classroom and sent me there.
And that was like my first timefeeling voiceless and feeling
(11:10):
invisible.
Um, and so, you know, throughthe years as a young girl, I I
didn't want to spend my life inthe corner feeling voiceless and
invisible.
And so I worked very hard tolearn English, but it came at
the at the cost of my Spanishbecause after I left Mexico, I
(11:31):
never really had any a formaleducation in Spanish.
Everything was in English, andthe message that I received in
my classrooms was that I neededto learn English, and everything
had to be in English, all myreading, my writing, my
speaking, um, everything.
So then instead of learning anew language or adding a new
(11:55):
language, I was actually losinga language.
I was losing my mother tongue,and that's why, you know, it's
called the term is subtractivebilingualism, and and I hadn't I
hadn't heard of that term untilI was an adult.
And I realized that, yeah,that's what happened to me.
(12:16):
I was replacing my mother tonguewith English.
So I wasn't really becomingbilingual.
I was losing my connection to tomy country, my connection to my
culture and to my mother.
And so it was uh uh uh it was avery traumatic experience the
way I learned English.
(12:38):
And it wasn't until I was anadult that I started to be more
proactive in like trying to getmy Spanish back.
I started taking Spanishclasses, and then I began to
translate my own work intoSpanish as a way to teach myself
um Spanish.
(12:59):
But it's still, you know, it'sit the consequences are still
something that I see, you know,every day.
Like, for example, I because ofmy language trauma, I didn't
teach um Spanish to my children,and that is something that I
deeply regret every single day.
(13:20):
I regret it.
My son does not speak Spanishbeyond level one.
My daughter uh also didn't speakSpanish, but then when we moved
to Northern California, thelocal school had a dual language
immersion program.
(13:40):
And I put her in that programand she became bilingual because
of that program, not because ofme, but because of that program.
And so now my daughter is uh isa senior in high school and
she's gonna get her seal ofbiliteracy from the state of
California when she graduates.
And so that makes me reallyhappy, and it also makes me
(14:02):
happy to know that theseprograms, like you know, the
dual language um immersionprograms uh exist because
children are able to becomebilingual in uh in a way that is
not traumatic, you know, in away where they're not forced to
sacrifice anything aboutthemselves.
(14:26):
So they are becoming bilingualin in the right sense, right?
They are adding a language,they're not subtracting a
language.
They are be they are l more, notless.
And so to me that that thatmakes me really happy to know
that my daughter's bilingualismum has come in a way where she
(14:50):
has not had to sacrificeanything about who she is.
SPEAKER_02 (14:55):
And if I'm not mistaken, she was you you were
on a trip to Mexico, she wasspeaking to your relatives and
really relishing the experience.
I think this was when she wasyounger, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like six months after Iput her in that dual language
immersion program.
Um six months after I took herto Mexico for the Christmas
holiday, and not only was shespeaking Spanish to my
relatives, she was also singingthe the Spanish Christmas songs
(15:27):
because she had learned them atschool.
And she was so happy because wewould go to the Posadas and she
was able to sing along to thosesongs.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
Kind of a full full circle moment for your family in
some ways, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:44):
On the topic of family separation, uh, you know,
I had asked, or actually theyasked me, a number of our
students wanted me to ask yousome questions because I think
that that resonates so deeplywith students and with children,
right?
Anybody thinking about one ortwo of their parents leaving
with an with an you know no ideaabout when they're coming back.
(16:06):
And yours, for you it happenedin it, this is before you know
WhatsApp and FaceTime, so youmight go months and months with
no news.
Um, one of the uh middle schoolgirls asked, How how could you
still love your parents afterbeing put through that
(16:27):
experience?
That's coming from a13-year-old.
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
Wow, that is, yeah, that's uh that's such a tough
question.
I mean, I have been working onthat for a long time, you know,
because I have come tounderstand my parents in a way
that I didn't when I was a younggirl.
Um I think as I have matured, myunderstanding has also matured,
(16:54):
and I see that my parents werealso put in very difficult
situations, you know.
Um they were victims of povertyand inequality and oppression,
and they were forced to makechoices that no parent in the
(17:15):
world should ever have to make,which is to leave their children
behind and go to another countryso that they could find a way to
provide for them, right?
And so for me, like I yes, Iwent through a period where I
felt um angry and resentful, butthen I learned to understand and
(17:37):
to have more compassion for myparents.
And that also, you know, camelater when I became a mother
myself, when I look at mychildren, and every day I am so
grateful that I don't have tomake the tough choices my
parents had to make.
That I get to, you know, be withmy kids because I'm able to
(18:01):
provide for them.
I don't I am not in a situationwhere I have to make desperate
decisions that are gonna tratraumatize my kids for the rest
of their lives, you know.
And so I have so much morecompassion for my parents.
Um I have a lot of love for thembecause I understand that they
(18:24):
didn't have the resources to gethelp, you know, and that they
were not able to break from ourintergenerational trauma.
Um they also suffered a lot.
And I think that if they hadreceived some help, maybe that
(18:46):
it would help them to be betterparents.
So that those are the kinds ofthings that I've learned to
understand and and also I Idon't just forgive and
understand for my parents, I'mdoing it for my children as
well, because I don't want toshow up damaged, you know.
(19:10):
I don't want to show up with allthis trauma and dump it on my
kids.
And so I know that I need towork on my feelings.
I need to develop, um, I need towork towards having a healthier
relationship with my parents sothat then I can have a healthier
(19:33):
relationship with my children.
So I'm doing the work for thefor my kids.
Um, and that's how we breakcycles, right?
And that for me has been apriority to break those cycles
and to work on myself so thatI'm not passing on that that
(19:54):
baggage to my kids, and I'm notmaking my kids suffer because of
my pain and my trauma.
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
It's a really profound way of thinking about
your legacy, right?
We all often think about what'sour legacy for our kids.
I think when we say that, mostpeople are thinking it's a in a
material sense, right?
Like yours is actually uh theway you express it is a is real
spiritual and internal and aparadigm shift.
(20:26):
Um in in thinking about the thegenerations, um I can't stop
thinking about your grandma.
I think it's a your paternalpaternal grandma, right?
Uh Annie Guala, and I I saw inone of the YouTube videos, I
think in my mind I'd made herlike this giant figure
physically, right?
And she's tiny.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Oh, you're talking about mymaternal grandmother.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
I mean, they're both tiny.
Okay, so so maybe I'm mixing thetwo.
Who which was it paternalgrandma was the one that you
that was my evil grandma, evilgrandma, right?
Yes, and so when I think abouteven you know, when people turn
out evil, but however we definethat, there's a there's that
trauma background, I'm sure, tothat as well, right?
(21:17):
And so then that gets passed onto your dad, and you know, it
just yes.
Um I that was something that Ithink was really both powerful
and also refreshing aboutespecially the distance between
us, is it's not an idealizedversion of the the welcoming
grandma in Mexico who's like,okay, kids, let's get up and
(21:38):
we're gonna make tamales todayor whatever.
It was like a that was likereally rough survival on the on
the edge of not making it.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
Yeah, well, uh yeah, so I have my my two
grandmothers.
Um I recently posted a pictureon my Instagram of my maternal
grandmother, who's my sweetgrandmother.
SPEAKER_02 (22:03):
Not the evil one.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
I don't really post about the evil ones.
Uh no, but my maternalgrandmother, she was very, very
kind.
She was very poor, um, but shehad a lot of love.
And so even though we we were,you know, we didn't really have
much food to eat, we wedefinitely had a lot of love for
(22:29):
my grandmother.
And that made things a littlebetter for us.
With my paternal grandmother,she was not very kind to us when
we lived with her.
She mistreated us a lot, and sheuh would spend the money, you
know, that my parents would sendfor us.
(22:51):
She would spend it on otherthings, and so she just made
life so much harder at a timewhen what we needed was some
love and support, you know.
And and so I definitely had towork very hard on like forgiving
my grandma and understanding herand trying to like, you know,
(23:13):
give her some love because Iknow that she also had a very
difficult life.
And I think that my father, youknow, he suffered a lot with her
too.
And so he kind of recreated alot of the the toxic the
toxicity in his home, in hischildhood home, he kind of
(23:38):
recreated that with us.
And so I I kind of wish he hadworked harder to not do that,
but um sometimes, you know, theabused children become the
abusive parents, right?
Um yeah, and with my maternalgrandmother, I feel that I love
(24:02):
her so much, and that issomething that really, really
hurt me when when I came toCalifornia.
One of the things I lost when Iimmigrated was my relationship
with my grandmother because Ididn't see her very much after I
left.
It took me almost eight years tocome back to Mexico when I saw
(24:26):
her again.
And then after that, I saw hermaybe three more times, and then
she passed away when I was in mymid-20s.
And so that's a great sorrow forme, you know, having lost that
relationship that I reallytreasure with my grandmother.
But what I posted on myInstagram the other day was that
(24:49):
even though my grandmother hasbeen gone from my life for many,
many years, uh, she's alwayswith me because I write so much
about her.
And she has appeared in almostall my books.
You know, whether I'm writing anovel or I'm writing my memoirs,
(25:09):
there she is, you know, my mygrandmother shows up.
And so it's a beautiful thingthat I have seen with writing,
is that it really helps me tostay connected with my my
ancestors and with, you know,the people that are no longer
here physically with me, butthey're in my heart.
(25:31):
And so I get to bring them backto life through my writing.
And I I find that to be such abeautiful thing that a gift that
my writing has given me.
SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
I think I recall you saying, and in a maybe it was a
speech that you gave where yousaid that some people write
memoirs based on their memories,but that someone who was
inspirational to you, maybe itwas a professor or a teacher or
coach, mentor, said that theywrite their memoirs based on the
(26:05):
things that they would ratherforget.
So difficult, difficult things,things that we've we've perhaps
uh suppressed, um, etc.
How do you handle thatexperience, the memoir writing
experience, or write writing anovel for that matter, because
they they seem to they seem tobe you know cross-pollinating at
(26:28):
all times, anyway, is what youas you just described.
How do you handle thatemotionally uh and work your way
through it?
I'm just interested at that fromthat writing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Yeah, so so so the what you're talking about is um
advice that Sandra Cisneros, whois my my literary godmother, uh
my inspiration, she the advicethat she gives is is that um we
should write about the things wewish we could forget.
(27:01):
And that is something that Ifeel I've been doing since I was
a teenager, because everything Iwrite are the things that I wish
I could forget, because they'revery painful, painful things,
right?
And that's why like my writingpractice has been very tied to
my trauma in a way where mostlywhat I write about are very
(27:22):
traumatic experiences that I'vegone through.
But the reason why I've donethat is because my writing has
been, you know, therapy for me.
It's my way of processing allthis trauma, it's my way of um
(27:43):
trying to find healing byunderstanding the things that
I've gone through.
It has really helped me to umtransform my trauma instead of
letting my trauma transform me,like I'm transforming it into
works of art that I can thenshare with other people.
(28:08):
And it's very difficult to writememoir or even fiction, you
know, because a lot of fictiontends to be autobiographical,
and so, or at least my fiction,um, when I write, I'm trying to
process these things that happento me and to and to understand
why they happen and to learn toreally learn the lessons that
(28:32):
these experiences have taughtme.
And I have to confront them aspainful as they are.
And it's almost like like havingthorns, you know, like you have
all these thorns stuck on yourflesh, and what you're doing is
you gotta pull them out.
And as you're pulling them out,it really hurts.
(28:54):
But once you yank them out andthe pain subsides, you feel
better.
And now you don't have to, youknow, carry that thorn um with
you.
So that's kind of how I seewriting memoir, is that when I'm
writing these very painfulmemories, I'm pulling out the
thorns.
And yes, it's gonna hurt.
(29:16):
Uh in the act of of writing,it's gonna hurt, but once
they're out, they're out, andthen they're no longer hurting
me anymore.
So I'm basically um no longergiving them the power to
continue to hurt me, and andthat's what I really love about
(29:36):
about writing down all thesethings that I have gone through.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
You you talk about the fact that after you
graduated from from college andand really where you honed your
your the craft, the writingcraft, that the piece that they
hadn't yet taught you was aboutthe per the profession, the how
to get published, the navigatingthat whole piece and I think if
(30:02):
I recall correctly your first uhI don't know if there were query
letters or whatever you set outlike 30 or so came back with you
tell tell the story because I'mgonna get the facts wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
Yeah well it was my first novel.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
Okay.
Yeah it was your first novel.
So you you you had written itand and I I think it someone
flippantly said you're a goodwriter but no one wants to read
a book about a Mexican.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
Yeah nobody's gonna care.
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
No one's gonna care.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Um so so talk about that and then how you how like
how do how does someone how doyou overcome that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
Yeah uh I think because I I grew up with
rejection I learned how to umnot let it you know bring me
down so much.
Uh I but yeah when I was a youngwriter I was you know um 27
(31:10):
around there I found an agentwho started sending out my first
novel to editors and 26 of themrejected the novel.
Number 27 came back and said yesI want to publish this book and
that was like one of thehappiest days of my life you
(31:30):
know when I when I got that yesum but yeah no one of the things
that is difficult for forwriters for aspiring writers is
really knowing about thebusiness side right a lot of
times you know we focus a lot onour craft and it's our art we're
making art but once we we wewant to get published it's very
(31:55):
challenging because a lot oftimes we don't have the
knowledge or the resources orthe net you know the connections
to help us get our workspublished and the publishing
industry unfortunately is notvery diverse and so for writers
of color it can be quitechallenging knocking on those
(32:16):
doors and getting a lot ofrejections.
And then for immigrant writersyou know it's very challenging
and oftentimes we are told thatpeople don't really want any
more immigrant stories or thatpeople are not going to care
about immigrant stories.
And so that's what I heard whenI was trying to get my first
(32:36):
novel published and my firstnovel was about a young
immigrant girl looking for hermissing father.
It was somewhat autobiographicalalthough what I was exploring in
that novel was not so much thelife that I had lived but more
(32:59):
like the life I might have livedif my father had never come back
for me.
Because that is something thathaunts me to this day when I ask
myself like where would I be nowif my father had not come back
for me you know and so I try toimagine like in in the
multiverse right these differentversions of my life playing out
(33:23):
if things had been different.
And so in Across 100 Mountains Iended up writing a story of a
young girl whose father comes tothe United States to look for
work and he disappears so hedoesn't come back and she ends
up having to leave her hometownand go look for him.
(33:44):
And she's basically anunaccompanied minor right coming
to the border by herself andshe's trying to find her father
and and uh reunite with herfather.
So that was a story that I hadwritten and it was inspired by
my fear as a little girl that myfather wouldn't come back and
that he would forget me and thatI would never see him again.
(34:07):
So that book is actually turning20 next year.
It's celebrating its 20thanniversary and I'm gonna be
celebrating 20 years of being aprofessional writer.
It's been such a wonderfuljourney.
I feel very proud of the booksthat I have published and I am
(34:34):
finishing two books right nowthat are gonna come out next
year.
And so yeah that has been mytrajectory as a writer and I'm
gonna be turning 50 in a fewdays and so I'm also starting a
new journey as a 50 year old.
So a lot of things have happenedin my life that I'm really
(34:56):
really grateful for.
And so I'm starting this newdecade of my life with a lot of
gratitude.
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
You you talked about in one of your interviews this
term of being an emerging writerright like I think it was after
your first book and they saidhey congratulations you're an
emerging writer and then youbecame a something else writer
there were like adjectives thatwere attached to them right and
so at what point did you did youreally go wow like I've arrived
(35:23):
this is I am I'm a professionalwriter um I'm being sought out
to speak and and and you knowjust like at what point like
just also given given everythingyou'd gone through in your life
as you as you reference theamount of rejection yeah right
just for forget about thepublishing industry that was
(35:44):
that's low rejection compared tothe other rejection that you
faced right so like at whatpoint did you get to go wow I've
really I've arrived I don't knowif I feel that way yet I mean
you know I still feel that I'mstill an emerging writer uh but
yeah some years ago I think itwas after my my fourth book was
(36:10):
published that I I still keptcalling myself an emerging
writer and then a friend of minesaid Raina you have emerged I
was like no I don't I'm stillemerging um but no like now I
(36:31):
know people see me as anestablished writer and I haven't
quite wrapped my head aroundthat one like I feel that I
still have a ways to go to feelestablished but I and maybe
that's the the nature of art itright like like there's always
that that little edge of itwhere you're like I never like
(36:55):
completely get there because I'mnot supposed to completely get
there.
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Maybe it's the journey right right yeah no and
I and that that has been thecase for me because I I always
feel like I'm always learningabout writing you know every
book teaches me something newabout writing so I never feel
that oh I know everything aboutyou know about my art and it's
(37:22):
like I'm gonna be a lifelonglearner I want to keep writing
so I can keep learning moreabout being a storyteller about
you know the craft I want to getbetter I I do want to one day
look back and feel that I amestablished.
But I think um I also want tostay humble you know have
(37:48):
humility and know that mywriting is not perfect that I
could do better next time andI'm always striving to do better
next time.
SPEAKER_02 (38:00):
This is another question from one of the the
students um where I work whatadvice would you if you could go
back in time what advice wouldyou give your I think you were
nine when you first crossed intoCalifornia right am I do I have
that right?
Yeah what advice would you givenow knowing what you know as
(38:22):
you're approaching the the thehalf century mark um what would
you tell that nine year old whywould I tell her I mean I would
tell her that everything isgoing to be okay that she just
needs to stay strong hold on toher dreams she's gonna make
(38:48):
mistakes and that's okay that'spart of life and as long as she
keeps going you know she's gonnaget rerouted once in a while
she's gonna lose her way but aslong as she always comes back to
her path she's going to be justfine actually she's gonna be
(39:09):
more than fine she's gonna beamazing I I had to chuckle uh
there's that scene in inDistance Between Us where you
think you just crossed theborder and you're driving and
you want to go to McDonald's yousaw the golden arches you're
like peeking out and I think Iknow which one that is it's in
(39:29):
San Isidro there's a McDonald'sright there and that they that
they the the uh the guy the manwho was helping smuggle you guys
across gave you sunflower seedsand you're like really I'm
coming to the richest uh therichest country in the world and
you've heard all these idealistidealistic things um uh and
(39:50):
you're giving me bird feed um soobviously that was a a little
bit of a of a comical uh piecethere but in all seriousness
what parts of of the theidealized experience in the US
um were completely not what youexperienced them to be if that
(40:11):
makes sense so you'd grown up itsounds like you heard all these
stories right like like I thinkit was a cousin who said look
see these dollars like yeah myaunt and also look at they're
growing on the trees everywherelike all you need to do is just
shake the tree how much of yourexperience I mean you've spoken
very lovingly about the UnitedStates and and um as well as
(40:32):
about Mexico but what parts ofthe experience in the US were so
different from the idealizedpart?
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
I mean well yeah when my aunt was telling us that
the trees here grow dollars forleaves that was such a lie um
and that is something that a lotof immigrants come here thinking
that they're gonna make a lot ofyou know money and then go home
(41:00):
and build their houses and havea great life but when they come
here they realize that life isvery expensive in the United
States, you know, and thatdollars don't go as far as they
thought they would and then theyhave to work two, three jobs to
be able to support themselvesand their families and to be
(41:21):
able to send money back to theirhome countries.
Many of them you know have tocram into like small apartments
just so that they could affordthe rent and they have to share
um a room with a bunch of peopleand like it's just like really
difficult and and that issomething that they don't talk
(41:42):
about back home, right?
Back in our countries likethere's this romanticized um
story that about what life isgoing to be like when you get
here and they don't talk abouthow difficult it is to survive
here in this country.
(42:14):
You know it's like I'm nineyears old and all of a sudden
now I'm a criminal because Icrossed the border without
permission just because I wantedto live with my father, you know
and so um like dealing with thatthat that was not part of my
identity right that I was anquote unquote illegal alien.
(42:40):
That was very traumatic and thenalso um being uh uh racialized
in a way like I hadn't been inMexico like all of a sudden now
I'm hyper aware of my skin colorand my you know my name and and
(43:01):
um just my cultural identity wasconstantly being criticized and
then I had to I started todevelop this shame and and this
inferiority because I was abrown Mexican Spanish speaking
kid.
(43:21):
So like those things I feel likeyou know we don't really talk a
lot about um in Mexico and evento this day you know even to
this day like recently I was uhI went to Mexico um in May to
participate in a conference andwe were talking about you know
(43:45):
Latino artists in in the US andI'm and and not just Latino
artists but like Latinos indifferent sectors of society and
I mentioned um at the conferencehow only like in the in in the
publishing industry only about7% of authors are Latino that in
(44:11):
the film industry you know onlyabout like 5% 6% of actors with
leading roles are Latino onlyabout 6% are you know lawyers or
physicians or engineers or youknow it like the percentage is
so low.
And and people in Mexico when Imentioned those those um numbers
(44:36):
they were completely shocked andand that was something that they
don't think about right of howwhat it's like to um be in a
place where you have to liveunder all this systemic
oppression where we are not youknow welcome in certain spaces
(44:59):
where we fight constantly haveto be fighting for a seat at the
table.
You know um I was I I don't Idon't know if you you read an
article that I I wrote someyears ago um for the Washington
Post where I mentioned how I hadgone to a party for authors it
(45:20):
was a literary gala at theLibrary of Congress and I was
mistaken for a waitress.
And and and so like you knowlike so that's what like I talk
about like living here in theUnited States we we're
constantly you know being beingforced to fight for our right to
(45:44):
take up space.
And there's a lot of obstaclesthat we have to overcome and
that is something that people inMexico and you know Latin
America don't seem to understandthe challenges that we Latinos
are facing in in this country.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
It's almost like the way it's presented is just a
one-dimensional view of the USprobably a lot of based on media
representations right like thethe material wealth side of
things like you can do this andif you're in this profession.
In in a lot of my travels inLatin America I always get the
question oh I'm a I'm acarpenter I'm a such and such
(46:25):
how much would I earn in theUnited States?
Like and as you say there's alot of context that gets lost in
that calculation.
Right it's like you know yeahyeah you can earn five times as
much or ten times as much andthen wait till you see how life
is like where you have to livewho you have to live with what
opportunities you will not haveaccess to readily you know so
(46:50):
well I'm gonna say though likesomething my mother used to say
was that I'll rather be poorhere than in Mexico.
SPEAKER_01 (46:59):
She would say that all the time I would rather be
poor here than in Mexico.
And you know she's right becauseyeah I mean as poor as you are
here in the United States you'renever gonna be as poor as you
were back in your country youknow I mean it's just and also
(47:20):
like um I think a lot ofimmigrants are willing to put up
with all those challenges herefor their kids, right?
For the next generation.
That that's really the Americandream.
It's not so much for themselves,it's for their children.
And so they are willing to makethose sacrifices because they
(47:43):
want their kids to have a shotand so I understand I understand
that you know and and it's it'sum it's something that is so
admirable in the immigrantcommunity the the lengths that
they go through the sacrificesthey make all everything they're
(48:03):
willing to do without as long astheir kids have a chance.
SPEAKER_02 (48:08):
You've been very generous with your time and I
know we had talked about um youknow wrapping this up in in less
than an hour but I before I haveone last question for you but I
wanted to see if there'sanything that I have not touched
on that maybe kind of jumpingaround in your mind as we had
this conversation that you thinkno no I'll I'll take the
(48:29):
questions you have from thestudents.
Are these from the students orno no this no this one was a
hypothetical one for me.
The two from the students werewhat would you what would you
tell your um your young self andthen how could you how could you
love your family still um tothis day um but I I wanted to
wrap with just a hypotheticaland it's it's perhaps a little
(48:52):
bit of an odd question to put toan author because you you you
write all the time and this isyou know you have the you have
the the the page as your as yourmedium but if you had the
opportunity to create abillboard we're just going to do
this intellectual exercise tocreate a billboard on the side
of the freeway wherever youwhere you where you live uh what
(49:13):
would um what would renagrande's billboard say about
what you believe in about umabout your views on life as
people are driving by most ofthem are going by at 70 and
sometimes they're going by atseven miles an hour when they're
in traffic wow that's uh that'sa challenging question I mean
(49:36):
the first thing that popped inmy mind as I was listening to
you was don't give up in big bigbold letters don't give up um I
think sometimes people need tobe reminded of that you know
because they get overwhelmedwith all the challenges that
life is throwing their way and Ifeel like you know as long as we
(49:59):
don't give up and we just keepgoing we're gonna get through it
you know we're gonna get throughthat um and that is something
that I tell myself a lot too youknow since I was a young girl
going through all thesechallenges that was the one
thing I always told myself isdon't give up because that is
(50:20):
really when when you lose thefight is when you when you give
up on yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (50:25):
You know everybody else could give up on you but as
long as you don't give up onyourself you will you will
succeed you know it's gonna behard but for me that's an
important message.
SPEAKER_02 (50:39):
Well thank you so much it's been an honor it's
been a pleasure and and reallyan inspiration to speak with you
and and to hear a little bitabout your stories and amplify
what's in your books with thereal life relating of it.
So thank you for generosity umand congratulations on 20 years
(51:04):
yeah 20 years 50 years and manymore to come thank you so much I
really appreciate all yourquestions I appreciate your
students' questions um and yeahand I just want to you know wish
them all the best I want to youknow encourage them to continue
(51:26):
to pursue their dreams to keepgoing you know keep believing in
themselves and to not give up onthemselves and in their dreams
and on their families thanks forjoining us on the Hangout
Podcast you can send us an emailat podcastinfo at proton.me many
(51:50):
thanks to my daughter Maya forediting this episode I'd also
like to underline that thispodcast is entirely separate
from my day job and as such allopinions expressed herein are
mine and mine alone.
Thanks for coming on in andhanging out
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