#94 Immigration Law: A Conversation with Attorney Filex Sanchez

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Sciarretta (00:01):
Welcome to the Hangout Podcast.
I'm your host, david Sharetta.
I hope you enjoy this show and,if you do, please share it with
your friends and family onsocial media and in the real
world.
Come on in and hang out.
In this episode, I was soprivileged to sit down with

(00:23):
Filex Sanchez, who is thefounder of the Union Law Group,
which is a law firm dedicated toimmigration law located in San
Diego, california, and Tijuana,baja California, mexico.
Filex and I talked about a widerange of topics, from his
inspiring origin story, wherehis parents were his first and

(00:47):
enduring role models for hardwork and community engagement
and commitment, to theimportance of family in his life
, and to the political changesand changes to the law and the
regulations and the de factoapproaches to immigration
enforcement in the United States.
Regulations and the de factoapproaches to immigration
enforcement in the United States.
Even over the past three monthsor so.

(01:10):
We had an engaging conversationand I hope you enjoyed it as
much as I did.
Welcome, Filex.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and we're just up the
hill from your office and Iappreciate your taking the time.

Filex Sanchez (01:24):
I appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
Anything that I can help,anything that I can be of
service to my community.

I think a good place to start is where we
usually start with all theguests, which is your origin
story, where you come from,which always informs, then, who
you are and what you do.

Sure, yeah, I was fortunate enough to be born in
the US not something that I knowmerit on my part.
This was my parents coming tothe United States from Mexico,
so I was lucky enough to be bornin the US.
I also have strong ties toMexico, so I consider myself to
be bicultural, 100% Mexican and100% US citizen.

(02:02):
I grew up in San Ysidro, themost bicultural place ever right
, maybe the most right,depending on who you ask.
Some people call it NorthTijuana.
Yeah, and that's my parents'office was two blocks away from
the busiest port of entry of theworld.
I went to school at Mon Carmel,so that was just a couple of
blocks away.
Also in San Ysidro, grew upthere, wow, and I haven't

(02:23):
ventured far from the border.
It's always something that it'spart of who I am.
My parents are the ones thatstarted in immigration.
It wasn't even my sort ofdecision.
I started helping them out intheir business.
My dad was a consultant.
He was never an attorney.
He was an immigrationconsultant.
A quote unquote notario, whichis interesting because I have a
perspective on both sides.
A lot of immigration attorneyslike to demonize notarios and I

(02:46):
saw a lot of help that my daddid for his community.
So I know that he was alsolimited in his role and what he
could do and how he couldrepresent clients.
He couldn't talk about the law,he couldn't give them
recommendations, that type ofthing.
So I think that I see thatperspective.
I have a lot of respect for alot of notarios.
Obviously, there's everything,a range.

(03:07):
There's a range, there's goodpeople and there's not so good
people and unfortunately, ourcommunity is prone to being
victims of fraud and abuse andwhatnot.
But I see that also withimmigration lawyers, right.
So it's not a notario thing,it's just like in any profession
.

It's a human thing, right, it's a human thing
, yeah.

So I didn't even think that I was going to be an
immigration lawyer.
I actually thought that I wasgoing to fly out to New York or
LA and be a corporate lawyer orsomething like that.
And at some point I started mypractice in San Ysidro my mom's
office and when I was there,started picking up back.

(03:44):
Then we would call it door law,right anybody who knocked on
the door.
That was the kind of law youpracticed.
So whether it was a bankruptcyor divorce or anything, and just
because I was at the border, Iwould happen to get a lot of
immigration clients.
And I think I remember veryclearly the day that I decided
to let go of everything else andjust focus on immigration and
become a specialist.
And it was a day that I had aclient who she came to me and I

(04:07):
was extremely busy and I waslike walking past her and then
she grabbed me and she said andI said yeah, and I didn't
recognize her in the moment, andshe said I'm back in Spanish
and in that moment I clicked oh,that means that she left and
came back and she was able tocome back legally and I said, oh
, great, congratulations, butagain, just talking past her,
essentially, and then I said,okay, con permiso.

(04:30):
And I was walking away and thenshe grabbed me, like physically
, and that was shocking.
And then she said, no, youdon't understand, I'm back.
And I see that she's crying,she's tearing up, and I think it
was that moment that I saw howmuch of an impact I can have on
everyday people's lives, and Ithink that was the day that I

(04:51):
said you know what this is forme?
This is what I want to focus on.
One way or another, I considermyself an immigrant, being the
son of two immigrants, and Ijust said this is my community.
I need to do anything I can tomake this happen, and I felt so
fulfilled and that's the daythat I decided to become an
immigration specialist.

(05:12):
I took the specialization examsometime in 2012.
I've been a specialist since,and our practice is exclusively
immigration.
I don't I know about divorce,but I can't help people with
divorce procedures.
I know a little bit aboutbankruptcy, but it's not my
strength.
My strength is definitelyimmigration and nationality.

(05:34):
Now you have offices both sidesof the border.
I do, yes, we have an office inTijuana.
We have an office in San Diego.
We have plenty of clients thatcannot cross into the US, so we
represent them down there.
We also have clients all overthe world.
We're fortunate that I'veliterally been able to help
people from Japan, china, russia, africa, you name it.

(05:56):
We've had clients from everypart of the globe, obviously all
parts of the United States aswell.
I've had clients from Maine,from Florida, from Seattle, from
Nevada, arizona, texas, andimmigration allows for that.
It's one of those things thatis really noble.
It's federal law, so I'm ableto practice in the entire United
States, it's not just aCalifornia thing.
So dealing with federalimmigration law helps me be able

(06:18):
to represent clients all overthe United States.
So it's one of those thingsthat is extremely rewarding
represent clients all over theUnited States.
So it's one of those thingsthat is.

It's extremely rewarding.
Now you've practiced through anumber of presidential
administrations.
Yes, now, previous to hittingrecord, we were talking about
the first Trump administration,and et cetera, and there's
always this talk thatcharacterizes Obama as the ex,
the deporter in chief, the quietdeporter.

(06:48):
He might not have talked aboutit a lot, he certainly didn't
put it on Twitter, but numbers,wise, numbers don't lie.
How have you been able toremain agile and really continue
to meet the community's needsas the federal?
Both laws and then also justthe temperature changes from

(07:08):
administration to administration.

Sure.
So practicing during the Obamayears was definitely a challenge
.
The way I would classify it isvery different from this
administration in the sense thatthere was a very clear focus on
priorities.
So the government hadpriorities that they were going
to deport or remove, which isthe legal term remove criminals

(07:37):
and people that have priorremoval orders, or that type of
thing who had gotten caught andcame back.
Yeah, so the question thenduring the Obama years was what
do you consider a criminal?
Would it be something as simpleas maybe a petty theft?
Would it be a DUI?
I represent clients from allwalks of life.
I represented people that havedone bad things and my take on

(07:59):
it is they deserve a fairhearing, they deserve
representation.
But I don't think anybody issaying that we want to have gang
members be our neighbors orpeople that have committed
violent crimes in our kids'schools.
I think that we all can agreeon that.
But again, who do you classifyas a criminal and who makes that
decision?
So during the Obama years,there was a lot of focus on

(08:22):
removing people that were seenas criminals and they had a list
of what crimes classified youas a criminal.
Now, one thing that a lot ofpeople don't talk about is that
there is a very simple procedurecalled expedited removal, which
happens at the port of entry orhappens when somebody is coming
into the US.
That's an easy way ofincreasing your deportation

(08:44):
numbers because they don't evengo through a hearing.
The hearing is done right thereat the port of entry.

They show up somehow get detained and then,
like you have, you can't be inthe United States to go home.
Right, send you home.

So there's a.
There's two different things.
There's a, there's somethingcalled voluntary departure or
voluntary return, and thenthere's expedited removal and
the person who makes thatdecision is the officer that
detained you In the moment.
In the moment, okay, so you getdetained by an officer and you
are going to be granted rightthat's the legal term granted a

(09:17):
voluntary departure or avoluntary return, which has no
immigration consequence butdiscretionary.
The officer can also remove youand the officer in charge is
the person who makes thatdecision.
So obviously those don't gothrough hearings.
There's no evidence beingpresented, you don't have a
right to representation, unlessyou specifically say that you

(09:39):
have fear of returning to yourhome country.
You're going to be removed ordeported.
So that happens every day andthat happened a lot during the
Obama year.
And it's interesting because alot of I have CBP the Customs
and Border Protection friendsand they don't know what the
legal consequences of anexpedited removal is.
They don't know.
They were just told you have toexecute an expedited removal.

(10:00):
Don't give them an option forvoluntary departure.
Now the problem with expeditedremoval Don't give them an
option for voluntary departure.
Now the problem with expeditedremoval is it comes with a
five-year ban to re-entry.
And if you do re-enter duringthose five years, you're subject
now to a 20-year removal right.
So, from the person who's beingdetained, whether it's a
voluntary departure or anexpedited removal, it looks

(10:22):
identical.
You cross the border, you'redetained, you're fingerprinted,
your picture's taken and thenyou're taken out of the country.
Sometimes you're told thatyou're being removed for five
years.
Sometimes you're not right.
Sometimes they give you somepaperwork, sometimes they don't.
So from the perspective of theperson coming in, they have no
idea.
Now you can be subject toexpedited removal even if you

(10:44):
have a visa, a valid visa, right.
If the officer thinks thatyou're lying to him, like, for
example, where do you work?
Oh, I work in Tijuana.
Right, at the sort of like theswap meet, you can't prove that
you're not working in the US.
So I'm going to, I'm going todeport you.
Right, you had a visa, you werecoming in to visit family.

(11:11):
So then something happens lateron and you decide to come into
the United States illegally.
Now you're subject to that20-year bar, unbeknownst to you,
obviously.
A couple years down the line,you get married, have a kid, you
come to an immigration lawyer,we do a background check and we
say sorry.
You're subject to this 20-yearbar and you have to be out of
the country for at least 10years before you're allowed to
file for a waiver.
So that was the issues that wehave during the Obama years that

(11:31):
so many people were subject tothese expedited removals.
That it was, I wouldn't sayinnocent, but it was relatively
innocent compared to it soundspretty bad.
You were deported and you cameback illegally.
Right, it sounds pretty bad.
But what if you don't know?
You were deported and itdoesn't justify breaking the law
.
However, because ofinternational conventions,
people can come into the unitedstates and apply for asylum, and

(11:54):
so I have a lot of people, alot of friends, that are on the
right and they ask me like, butthey're coming in illegally.
And I said there's a reason forthat right.
Most of our asylum laws comefrom international treaties that
are that came about duringafter world war ii, and the
reason was because german jews,polish jews, they couldn't go
through a port of entry to seekrefuge in a neutral country.

(12:17):
They had to go through.
Have you ever seen a world warii movie?
And oh yeah, they're escaping.
They're going through thefields.
The fields they're going, whichis essentially what we have
here.
They're going through thefields the fields, which is
essentially what we have here.
They're going through ourfields, right, and there's a
reason for that Because youcan't go through a port of entry
because what's going to be justbefore the exit, the Nazis
stopping you and sending you toconcentration camps.

(12:37):
So, based on that, ourinternational law said you don't
have to go through a port ofentry in order to seek asylum.
Right now, that's being thrownin our face and saying you're a
criminal just because youentered illegally.
But I'm still followinginternational law Right now.
Fast forward to the Trumpadministration, the first one
and the second one and comparethat to the Obama years.

(12:59):
Obama had DACA, right.
We had parole in place formilitary families.
We had very much of yes, we'regoing to focus on removing
criminals, but there's alsofamily reunification, a focus on
family unity, when, if you wereclean, you're going to be fine.
And they had this thing calledprosecutorial discretion, which

(13:20):
essentially said look, if you'renot a priority, we're not even
going to waste our time.
And that is precisely why theywere so effective at deporting
everybody else, because they hadtheir priorities.
The problem with the way you seeit, with the Trump
administration.
Trying to deport everybody isprecisely that when everything's
a priority, nothing's apriority, right, you're trying

(13:42):
to get rid of everybody.
And let's say, one of myclients gets detained no
criminal issues during the Obamayears wouldn't have been
worried about it.
Now this person is subject todeportation proceedings.
He's going to go see a judge,but what is he going to do?
He's going to fight for hiscase, right, he's going to take
up court time, court resources.
He's going to hire an attorney,he's going to present evidence,

(14:03):
he's going to present witnesses.
And if he loses, what is hegoing to do?
He's going to appeal, andthat's going to take up more
resources.
So we have this question Againif everybody's a priority, then
nobody's a priority, and do wereally want to?
I would say that we'resacrificing our community safety

(14:23):
by having the person who isn'tan issue that will probably
immigrate some other methodspouse, a us citizen, spouse, us
citizen, kids, something likethat and we should maybe really
focus on the people who areviolent criminals, people that
have that we probably don't wantto be as our neighbors, let's
say.
I think the problem right nowis that we're just demonizing
every immigrant, so we don'twant any immigrant to be our

(14:45):
neighbor and let's say I thinkthe problem right now is that
we're just demonizing everyimmigrant.

So we don't want any immigrant to be our
neighbor.
And that's terrifying, wouldyou say.
Or how would you characterizethe your experience of working
with immigrants over your careeras and perhaps this is me being
somewhat intellectually lazy,but in thinking back on how
immigration from South to Northhistorically had been, at least

(15:12):
the intellectually lazy way wasit was Mexico.
Mexican citizens in some waywanted to come to the United
States.
We know there's millions offolks, like your parents, for
example, are Mexican descendantsin the United States.
There was a shift, though, inthe last what 10 years or so,
with this term of caravan,really immigrant populations

(15:34):
coming from all over the world,from a south to north trajectory
, some from countries in SouthAmerica and Central American
countries, but then also fromother parts of the world.
At least that's the way it'scharacterized in the press.
How has that shifted in the wayyou've worked?
Or, in other words, maybe I'mnot being clear with my question
when you started your career,was it mostly dealing with

(15:57):
families of Mexican ancestry andthen now it's amplified, and is
that a function of the way thatworld populations are shifting?

sure, I think that I don't think that there's.
If you see the numbers, I don'tthink that you're going to see
a big influx of mexicans cominginto the united states illegally
.
That's where I was trying to goin comparison to like maybe the
2000s or the 1990s.
Okay, and you're going to see anincrease in El Salvadorians,

(16:29):
guatemalans, venezuelans, etcetera.
If I could say there was asilver lining during the first
Trump administration is that itmade me a better immigration
lawyer.
It made me amplify all theother programs that I wasn't
focused on, some things that Iwould see once in a while, like
the Cuban Adjustment Act orsomething that was TPS for a

(16:52):
specific country.

So you have to know like okay, this country,
because they're allies of theUnited States since whatever
else?
Salvador since the 80s.

there's a priority All sorts of rules Did
you enter before this date?
Did you do this before thisdate?
Did you marry somebody?
Did your parents?
And different countries havedifferent regulations, so some
cases that we had never seen.
We have a client coming in 2017or 2018 subject to removal, and
over here I have to go and tryto see if I can defend them
before an immigration judge orfile an affirmative application,

(17:22):
and during the conversationI'll ask wait, when did you come
in?
Again this date?
Oh, wait, I think I remembersomething reading somewhere,
something a long time ago, aboutthis specific situation.
Let me see if it applies to you.
So, having to do your researchand while you're doing more
research, you're navigating thatlabyrinth of law and I always
tell my new associates, doinggetting on the ground is the

(17:43):
most important way for you tolearn.
It's not so much the readingpart, right, it's being with the
clients, but make sure thatonce you take that information,
you go back and you do yourresearch, because as you're
doing your research, you'regoing to discover, oh, this law
actually applies to this othercase or this regulation or this
precedent decision.
I could, I remember I spokewith somebody and sometimes this

(18:04):
happens, right, I have a clientcomes say I'm sorry, I can't
help you, or this is going to bethe legal strategy.
Later on I do research and thenI go back to that client six
months ago and I say you knowwhat I messed up.
There's something else that wecan do, because now your
situation has changed.
Sorry, your situation hasn'tchanged.
Now I've discovered somethingnew.

(18:27):
So the first Trumpadministration made us all
better.
Lawyers kept us on our toes,definitely had to be kept
abreast of everything that wasgoing on, and we have to know
not just California law andNinth Circuit, which is where we
are, but we have to know wehave clients in Texas, fifth
Circuit.
We have clients in Florida.
They treat certain crimesdifferent ways over there or
procedures are different inthose jurisdictions.
And we have to know all that.
When we sit down with ourinitial consultation and it's a

(18:49):
lot and we say federal lawspecifies that a crime is.
These are the elements of thecrime.
California law the elements ofthe crime are completely
different and we have to say dothese match up or are they
sufficiently different where,yeah, you might've committed
this crime, but it's not thefederal equivalent right?
So that's how we are able todefend our clients.

(19:15):
As you may know, immigrationconsequences is not subject to
double jeopardy, which meansthat if you do your time for the
crime that you committed, youare still subject to removal,
and that's not a punishment,that's an administrative
decision.
Basically, it's like thedriver's license, the DUI.
You get a DUI, you might go tojail for a week and then you
might lose your license.
That's not double jeopardy, youjust can't have your license
because you committed this crime.
So that's the same thing withimmigration law.
So now again, first Trumpadministration, we have to be on

(19:38):
our A game.
Every single time, every singleday, we go to the judges and
something that was routineprocedure.
I remember my, my, if I mightdigress into a little absolute
anecdote, I remember veryspecifically the first Trump
administration was, I believethe swearing in, if I'm not
mistaken, was January 20th of2018.
So in December of 2017, justafter the elections, I had a

(20:00):
case that was up for hisindividual hearing, which means
this is the trial, and it wasscheduled for January 22nd, two
days after the swearing in,after the presidency, and in
December, I'm dealing with thegovernment counsel and we had
agreed that we were going todismiss the case my client was
going to look for a differentrelief through an adjustment of

(20:21):
status through a US citizenspouse.
We had already agreed, wealready had it in writing, we
already had it signed andsubmitted with the court.
And January 21st I get a callon my cell phone from the
government council and says hey,I just want you to know, we
have a hearing tomorrow.
This is the individual, this isthe hearing.

(20:42):
At this point we didn't have any, we hadn't presented evidence,
we didn't have a list ofwitnesses, we didn't have
anything because we had alreadydecided to dismiss.
We already had it with thejudge.
All the judge had to do wassign it and dismiss.
So basically, they said justwant to let you know that we're
going to oppose the motion todismiss.
They said based on what, wealready had it agreed, we

(21:05):
already have it in writing, wealready signed by your, by the
government and by my client, andit's just it's in the judge's
desk and tomorrow he's justgoing to sign and give it and
terminate this case and saidthings have changed.
And I said what has changed?
And he said there's a newpresident.
I said yeah, I'm well aware ofthat.
There's these new memos.
Now, memos are things that thepresident like executive orders,

(21:26):
but they're published, they'remade public.
I'm sorry, I'm not aware of anyexecutive orders that your
bosses have signed sinceyesterday.
So what has changed?
Things have changed.
I'm just letting you know.
We're going to oppose Hung upand that was not the way we
dealt with the government duringthe Obama years.
It was very much of let's worktogether, how do we get this

(21:47):
case, how do we get relief?
So the idea was how do we solvethis case together?
And that was not the same thing.
And it wasn't a change ofpresident, because this is
somebody who this was a changeof.
For eight years we weren'tallowed to deport people, and
now we can.

It's almost like a built up resentment.
They were how to tackle howdoes a how does an entity?
Rhetorical question how does?
Anybody who dealt withgovernment entities know knows
that they don't move typicallyquickly in any direction where
it takes months years.
Entity seem to move so quicklyin any direction, where it takes
months, years.
How does an entity seem to moveso quickly in a 180 degree?

different direction.
This is what we're seeing today, because this is extremely
interesting.
We were filing motions todismiss left and right.
Just, I can't remember January,whenever he January 20th, 21st,
we were it was Sunday beforethe inauguration and we were

(22:48):
getting judges, governmentcouncils, signing motions to
dismiss because they knew thatthe next day they weren't able,
they weren't able to send themout, and so we had cases left
and right that we had to dismiss.
And then on January 20th, theday of the inauguration, at 12
o'clock, exactly everythingstopped and it was just like you

(23:10):
said, 180 degree turn.
And now it's okay.
I told my attorneys all right,it's time to grind Like we're in
, and now there's no turningback.

So your team, that has to be even more
creative.
More I mean you were sayingbefore we started this
conversation officially is evenmore creative.
More you were saying before westarted this conversation
officially is that perhaps welacked creativity and maybe your
profession lacked creativity inanticipating how quickly things

(23:39):
change.
Right, that this administration, not just the president.
Right, he's got a whole team.
Sure, project 2025 and whatever.
There are a lot of really smartpeople focused on certain areas
where they have an agenda andthey're pushing really hard.
Sure, and so if that's theironly focus to try to find
creative ways to get aroundthings they're going to they
throw everything at the wall andsome of them are going to stay.

(23:59):
Something's going to stayExactly.
So you, then, with your teamand your associates who you lead
, you have to be try to be instep with them or even ahead of
them.

And that has been the challenge that it seems
that we have our strategies forwhat we know works, when things
when they're, when they throw atus the normal things.
The client committed a crimeand we know what the crime was
and we know how Californiaclassified that crime and we
know what the crime was and weknow how California classified
that crime and we know what thesentence was.
And.
But now they're throwing theseleft, like a heart tattoo on

(24:30):
their arm Exactly, and thattattoo, because it has a crown,
is all of a sudden your client.
You see, that is what is sofrightening about my clients who
are Venezuelan.
It was interesting.
I made a joke with one of myclients and I said it seems like
the focus is all of a suddenVenezuelans, not Mexicans.
So I think you're safe for now.
And we all started laughing.
But I say that facetiouslybecause I think that's what is

(24:54):
so scary when you have a tattooand, based on that tattoo, you
are able to classify this personas a gang member with no due
process, no oversight, justbecause they said so.
And I've had that situationbefore.
I had an 18-year-old kid whohad a couple of tattoos.
I couldn't identify which onewas gang-related.

(25:15):
But he went to the consulate atCiudad Juarez.
He was Mexican and they said,no, you're a gang member.
And for the life of me Icouldn't figure out.
And I said are you a gangmember?
No, have you ever associatedwith gang members?
No.
Are any of your friends gangmembers?
No.
So what did they say?
Why did they focus on that?
They said my tattoos.
Which one he had?
The normal.
I don't have any tattoos, buthe had that sort of the street

(25:36):
tattoos.
He's just a young kid, he was18 years old, his wife was a US
citizen and we fought that caselike crazy and it was just some
government official that saw atattoo and said, hey, that looks
like a gang sign or a gangtattoo.
And we weren't able to figureit out.
And we obviously see how noweven the Supreme Court is saying

(25:57):
hold on, there is some dueprocess.
You can't even the AlienEnemies Act.
You still have to go through atleast a judge, right, whether
that's in a habeas corpuspetition or whether that's an
immigration.
But there has to be someoversight to this, otherwise it
really becomes fascism andreally and I think the Supreme
Court I don't think the SupremeCourt is going to be much of an

(26:18):
arbiter.
I think they're going to lethim do most of what he wants to
do, but they're going to atleast have some veil of.
We're still relevant.
The Supreme Court and thejustices and the judicial branch
is still relevant, becauseotherwise why do we have them?
What's the point?
So there is this question is hegoing to follow a judge's

(26:40):
orders?
When we saw Kilmar, the ElSalvadorian that was deported
even though he had no issues andthe only reason that he was
identified was because someinformants said that he was part
of a gang, ms-13 in New York,where he had never been, and
that's all the information thatwe have.
And then they basically said, no, we're not going to bring him
back.
And then the judge said, no,you have to bring him back,

(27:05):
we're not going to.
And so that sort of tension isyou've made your decision, judge
, now enforce it.
And how do you enforce it whenthe judge who's supposed to
enforce it, most likely willhave to reach out to some sort
of government agency to arrestthe officer or penalize the
government official who's makingthis decision?

(27:26):
That goes against the courtorder.
If we don't have that, there isno judicial officer, the
Supreme Court and the courts ofappeal and the district courts.
They don't have an enforcementteam.
There's no police for thejudges.
So if the government isviolating the law and we know

(27:49):
that they are, because thejudges are saying that they are
and they have immunity becauseTrump is giving them immunity
that really is a constitutionalcrisis.

Yeah, that's the definition and that's where
we are right now.
We're on the verge of that.

It's a matter of time.

There's never been a president who has defied
the Supreme Court.

And so far they are skirting around the edges,
not openly defying, but they'regetting very close and we'll see
.

This whole concept of removing someone and
sending them to a third countrythat's not their home country
and it's not the United States.
We saw it after 9-11, obviouslyfor under very different
pretenses.
Whether folks agree with themor not, I think Guantanamo Bay

(28:45):
has been an unresolved issuefrom everybody from.
Obama, there's people who aregoing to die there of old age
eventually, because now theyhave no place to go in the world
.
Could you ever have imaginedthat we would, in your line of
work, be dealing with caseswhere someone might contact you

(29:06):
and say, felix, my cousin wasdeported, we're from Honduras,
but he's now in prison in ElSalvador and I don't even know
how to reach him.
And it's a prison where thepresident himself has said
there's only one way out of thisprison in a coffin.

It's interesting, so I'll give you an example.
If one of my clients isdeprived of their due process
rights and they are kicked outof the US, we are able to file a
writ with the district courtjudge and the district court
judge can say bring him back.
Now, if my client is in, let'ssay, mexico and we have an order

(29:49):
from the judge, my client couldjust go up to the port of entry
and say hey, the judge wants mein his chambers or in his
courtroom today at 1 pm, so youhave to let me in.
This is a judge's order and forthe most part they're going to
be what's called paroled intothe US.
But what happens when they'redetained by a foreign entity?
This is not even their homecountry.

(30:09):
So if a Mexican is in a Mexicanjail, then Mexico has the right
to say whether you can leave ornot, because depending on their
laws.
But what about El Salvador?
El Salvador is not even a partyto this.
If you're a Venezuelan orHonduran, they're a different
kind of party to it.
But If you're a Venezuelan, orHonduran.

There are different kind of party to it.

But they're not a party.
No, they're not illegal.
Exactly, yeah.
So the judge can't go and sayEl Salvador, you are obligated
to release this person and bringhim back into the United States
.
They can say that to the UnitedStates and that's why the
United States is saying it's outof our hands.

But it's very convenient and we're paying El
Salvador, by the way, for thisSure, the service is rendered,
sure.

And now, a couple of days ago, when they were
flirting with the idea of sayingthat they might even deport US
citizens, that's incrediblyinteresting, right, because that
sort of begs the question as UScitizens, we have due process,

(31:06):
right?
So how would that?
So it's these again.
It's a lack of imagination onour end, but and why?
We haven't been effective atcombating this administration.
We're on the defense, right.
We're backed up into a cornerand we're just reacting to the
news of the day or a specifictactic that they're using with
one of our clients, and we don'thave any precedent to how we

(31:26):
deal with this.
And my hats go off to theattorneys that are defying and
that they're the ACLU and someof the bigger firms that are not
backing down from.
There was there's a couple offirms Skadden, I believe, is one
of those firms that decided tocapitulate, and Perkins isn't
right.
So it's interesting to see thatdynamic with, even within big
law.
But my hats go off to theattorneys and I've said this a

(31:48):
lot in my social media the wedon't have a cohesive response
to this movement.
There's the part the democraticparty isn't effective at
combating and they don't havethe tools, they don't have the
wherewithal, they don't even.
I don't even think that theyhave an identity right now.
They don't.
They're pretty fractured,absolutely Far left, moderate

(32:09):
yeah, absolutely.
And so the judicial branch hasbeen.
The courts have been somewhatof a line in the sand, but the
ones who are really taking upthe mantle are the attorneys.
Maybe I'm giving myself propsthere, but it really has been
that the attorneys are thesuperheroes of this whole novel.
They have been really been theones that are like we're just

(32:30):
going to file lawsuits left andright, and even after the
supreme court just came backdown and said that the alien
enemies act can continue as longas there's due process, guess
what?
Two lawsuits come in and twodifferent judges, both out out
of Texas, said wait, based onthe Supreme Court ruling, we're
still putting a nationwide pauseon it.

(32:50):
You can't deport people withoutdue process.
Now what does that actually looklike?
Whether that's a hearing infederal district court or
whether that's a hearing inimmigration court is still to be
seen, and the Supreme Courtdidn't specify.
But it will be interesting tosee how this is going to go back
.
And the Supreme Court didn'tspecify, but it will be
interesting to see how this isgoing to go back up to the
Supreme Court.
I don't ever.

(33:10):
The reason I believe that theSupreme Court is not going to is
basically going to allow Trumpto do most of what he wants to
do is because it's very rarethat a case goes all the way to
the Supreme Court that quickly.
We have cases that have beenpending for years and the
Supreme Court will eventuallylook at them.
I'm talking about six, seven,eight, 10, 12 years, and this
case has come up in two months.

(33:32):
It's incredible.
So the Supreme Court isdefinitely not going to be.
They're not here to save theday.

It's almost a kind of a dystopian novel type
of a situation.
I remember reading the 9-11report.
9-11 Commission did thislengthy report and it was pretty
fascinating reading, mainlybecause they talked about the
lack of imagination and lack ofcoordination that the various

(33:59):
law enforcement agencies in theUnited States had, as well as
the CIA and internationally.
And no one had thought of this.
Flying a plane into a building,flying a plane at the start of
its journey into a building sothat it's full of fuel and
there'd actually beenscreenplays about it and people

(34:20):
were like whatever, some TVBmovie and that was the end of it
.
And it's interesting, as youmentioned, lawyers being
courageous and also creative andout front on these things.
And who would have thought thatwe'd see both universities, law
firms capitulating or not,depending on and oftentimes it's

(34:41):
over money and access and thefuture viability of that entity?
Really, sure, are they going toget shut down or not?
Media companies, Mediacompanies, the same way, big
tech Sure, a friend of mineworks at Facebook.
I was giving him a hard time.
I'm like I have a friend atGoogle.

Exactly right.
I sent him a picture of theGulf of America and I said
what's?

going on, that's right.

Yeah, is it?

on Google maps .
Yeah, it's just a reallyinteresting thing.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout how you approach the
topics of the intertwined topicsof culture, language, identity
when you're dealing with thefamilies who you work with, the

(35:29):
clients who you work with,because they're not exclusively
from Mexico either, so thelanguage is only one piece of
that.
So you've got folks fromCentral America, south America,
all over the world.
How do you leverage both inyour work and also with your
associates to make sure thatyou're meeting the needs of not

(35:49):
only that particular client buttheir family as well?
What you do is it's a crossbetween legal expert, but also
like counselors, psychologist,social worker, shoulder to cry
on the whole shooting matchright?

Yeah, absolutely.
I think in our industry we havea set of values that we teach
and that we live by, and I thinkthe first one is empathy.
And our definition of empathyis slightly different than what,
I would say, most people.
So when I ask people theirfirst thought about empathy,
they'll turn around and saytreat others the way you want to
be treated, the golden rule.

(36:24):
And I say, yeah, that's a greatplace to start, but that's not
where it ends.
That's something that I tell mykid when he's in kindergarten.
He's taking somebody's toy away.
How would you like it?
But I think that's too basic.
I think empathy goes a stepfurther and it says don't treat
people how you would want to betreated.
Treat people how they want tobe treated.
And the best way of knowingthat is first to build trust and

(36:49):
communication.
So if I know how you want to betreated and the only way to do
that is spending time with them,sitting down, spending time
getting to know your story,getting to know your background,
that helps me understand andeven asking questions, right,
literally.
What are your expectations andunderstanding that people before
you are?
Before you build that level oftrust, you cannot expect an

(37:13):
honest answer from somebody youhaven't built trust with.
They're going to tell you whatthey think they should be
telling you, or they're going totell you what they.
What you want to hear it's notuntil you go deeper, and that
takes time right.
So spending the time with ourclients is, I think, the biggest
challenge, and this could beclients from any part of the
world.
Yes, I consider myself 100%Mexican, but I don't know.

(37:35):
I can't begin to understandwhat somebody that grew up in
rural Oaxaca and their lifeexperiences, because I have very
little connection to Oaxaca.
So the best way for me toempathize with any of my clients
, whether they're from Hondurasor from Russia, is to spend time
with them and get to know themon a personal level and ask

(37:59):
questions and be a blank pagefor them.
Just tell me anything that youwant me to know and be a blank
page for them.
Just tell me anything that youwant me to know.
I think many times asimmigration lawyers, we get
placed in that in the criminalside it would be the public
defender Right when they have 20cases.
Today They've met with everyone of their clients for two
minutes behind bars.
They're going file by file andreading it for the first time in

(38:25):
front of the judge, and they'redoing the best that they
possibly can with the verylimited time that they have.
And as immigration lawyers, wecannot afford that.
We have to spend time with ourclient and that is difficult
when you're getting, when thingsare coming out at you out of
left field, but you run the riskof not being able to fully
represent your client.
I'll give you one specificexample.

(38:46):
This is not a Mexican thing,but I can speak for a lot of my
Mexican clients that family isthe number one.
If a client comes to me andI'll give you an example let's
say a mother, father,20-year-old son and 17-year-old
daughter, right, they come to meand they say we want to

(39:06):
immigrate to United States and Isay, okay, mom, dad, you're
good, 17 year old daughter,you're good, 20 year old son.
Sorry, I can't help you, Idon't have enough time before
you're 21.
It's just not gonna happen.
No, I'm not even gonna.
I'm not even gonna waste myresources on you.
Because, I can't.
I'm not to charge you for that,it's not worth it.

(39:27):
That answer just doesn't.
Now you lost the whole family.
Sure, exactly Because they'renot complete, because mom and
dad are not going to be happyand their son is there, he's out
.
In some cultures they may say,that's okay, yeah, some cultures
might be like, yeah, it's avery individualized, it's very
yeah.
And I actually have someclients that are like, look, if
my kids can't immigrate, they'refine, I want to immigrate and

(39:48):
that's okay.
It's a little foreign to me,but I get it.
But to me it very much has tobe a one of those situations
where, let me understand, Ican't do it this way, but can I
do it this other way?
Can I spend time in focusing on, maybe, an asylum application?
Or do you have a universitydegree that might allow for a
non-immigrant work visa orsomething like that?

(40:08):
I think there are very fewimmigration lawyers that have
experience in sort of the gamutof every area of immigration law
, because it's not just removaldefense, it's not just criminal
issues, it's not justpetitioning through a US citizen
spouse.
We also have to deal withnon-immigrant visas, h-1bs, l-1
visas, o-n-vs for extraordinaryindividuals and athletes.

(40:29):
I also have to know aboutthings like U visas for victims
of crime, violence Against WomenAct.
Wait, special athletes getspecial.
Yeah, how do you think thatanybody who wants to come into
the World Cup next year is goingto come in?
They have to come in with somesort of work visa.
I thought there was a specialWorld Cup line.
It's interesting.
My worldview is through thelens of an immigration lawyer.

(40:50):
So I'm seeing the Olympics andI'm thinking, wow, this is
amazing.
How many immigration lawyershad to come together and bring
all these athletes from all overthe world to be able to come to
this specific event that onlylasts for 30 days.
And then you see the news ofsome team from some country
defected and now they'reapplying for asylum.
And that was their in right.
That was.

(41:11):
They came in as athletes andthen they became asylum seekers.
Yeah, how many Cuban baseballplayers have ever done?

that.

Exactly so.
It's interesting.
That's the way I see the world.
I see the news and I seesporting events as an
interesting case in immigration.
Events as an interesting casein immigration Wow never thought
of that yeah, of course.

It's not normal.
My wife criticizes me.
You bring up so many reallyfascinating topics and different
.
It's just so relevant to dailylife, whether you're like you, a
super expert or a lay personlike me who's just interested in
these topics.
And of course, we're whatevereight miles, or whatever it is,
from the border.
So we're in the Tijuana-SanDiego mega region is what we're
really in, with a somewhatarbitrary political line drawn
in the middle which, by the way,could have actually was

(41:55):
supposed to have been drawnfarther north at one point, but
the US wanted to capture aharbor here, which is why it was
pushed south.
But there's a lot of talk aboutimmigration reform right, that's
every presidential campaign.
This one was no different.
Kamala Harris got a lot of heatfor supposedly being the one in
charge of quote unquote fixingthe border issue, unquote.

(42:19):
And then it turns out it hadn'treally been there.
It's a political hot potato.
It's always in the news.
If you had a magic wand beingan expert in immigration law
policy, you live it and breatheit every day and you're a
product of it and you grew up astone's throw from another

(42:41):
country, et cetera.
What kind of reforms would youto see happen for the good of
humanity?

I think there's a couple.
Honestly, I don't like this.
Our immigration system isbroken.
Yes, it is broken.
There are things that penalizepeople for relatively innocent
things, but there are veryspecific things that I think we
could do to live up to ourpromise of America, the Statue
of Liberty, the promise of EllisIsland, which is where my

(43:12):
forefathers came through.
Sure, have you been to themuseum?
Yeah, isn't that amazing?

It's amazing.

I can spend days there and it's funny how the
view of immigrants shifted overtime when the 1850s, california
was literally drawn as acornucopia for the world to come
here, and then in the 1870sthat switched because of the
Irish immigrants and sayingdon't come.
And then it shifts back andthen it keeps going back and
forth.
So I feel like it's a pendulumand right now I feel that the

(43:40):
pendulum has swung so far and ifI could say maybe that's
something that needed to happen,because I'm hoping that the
pendulum has swung so far, andif I could say maybe that's
something that needed to happen,because I'm hoping that the
pendulum swings back and thereis that immigration reform,

(44:00):
because I feel that right nowthe right has demonized
immigrants so much that at somepoint people, everyday folks,
are going to have to say wait,is it really that bad?
My parents were immigrants andmy neighbors are immigrants and
there's that thing right, myneighbors aren't who Trump is
after.
They're good people.
No, they are actually on thecrosshairs, they are a focus,
they are a target and they'regoing to get deported if they

(44:21):
run into ICE.
As much as you say that youdidn't think that's what they
were after.
So I'm really hoping that thereis a silver lining that happens
out of these four years andthat it's that the pendulum will
swing back towards some sort ofimmigration reform.
But there's a couple of thingsthat just make sense.
If you think of immigration,which I don't, but if you think

(44:42):
of immigration as what's in itfor the US or what's in it for
business, then the guest workerprogram makes the most sense,
bracero.

The Bracero program.

The guest worker program.
If you ask pretty much any,very few people want to leave
their homeland and make theUnited States their home.
It's not what they normallywant.
Some people have to becausethat's why they're asking for
asylum.
Some people are they have to.

(45:14):
I'm not counting those, but Iwould say that those are going
to be the minority.
If you ask most people if theywant to come to the United
States, they would say yes, wewant to go, we want to work,
we're going to work hard, but wewant to come home and we want
to go back.
So the guest worker programmakes a lot of sense.
Why don't people just go back?
It literally costs $15,000 or$20,000 right now to be able to

(45:36):
be smuggled into the US andthat's just unfeasible.
There's pueblos that betweenthe entire pueblo, they come up
with this money for one of theirpeople to be able to come to
the US, and that's not somethingthat you want to do just
because you want to go visit momon Mother's Day.
So a guest worker program makesthe most sense and I think that
makes.
I think that we can sell USbusiness on that.

(45:59):
Expanding H-1Bs andprofessional visas makes so much
sense If you come to UnitedStates and you're the best and
the brightest, why are we makingit so difficult?
Why is there a cap?
Even Elon agrees with that.
Sure, yes.
And so, again, we have to bringbusiness into it, because
they're going to be thepolitical donors, they're going
to be the people who are goingto have a lot of sway with the

(46:21):
politicians.
So what's in it for us, orwhat's in it for our businesses
in the US, is definitely a guestworker program and expanding
some sort of professional visa.
Back in the day, I think Obamahad an ex-visa that never came
to fruition, but the idea was,if you studied in the US, you
should be able to get some sortof residency.
We have to do something aboutDACA.

(46:42):
I think even this president,actually Is it paused now?
No, it's on and off.
The people who have DACA arerelatively safe.
I don't think that they're inthe crosshairs, at least for the
time being, because that's apolitically pretty untenable-.
Yeah, I think a lot ofRepublicans would probably say
that we should probably leaveDACA out of it, because kids are
kids.

Yeah, they're not kids anymore, right?
No, but the kids were kids,sure, and they came in without
their own choice.

So that's a but.
That's only around 700, 800,000kids in the US or people in the
United States.
So we have to solve DACA.
The DREAM Act would be a goodstart.
I also think that we stoppenalizing dumb thing.
So right now there's somethingcalled the 10-year bar.
If you come to United States,you're here for a year, you
leave and then you come back.
You have a 10-year bar.

(47:29):
So even if you're married to aUS citizen, you have three US
citizen kids mom and dad are UScitizens you still have to leave
the country for 10 years beforeyou're able to come back to
United States.
That's the number one reasonthat I might not be able to help
out a prospective client.
They come to me and they saywhen did you come in 1995.
Did you ever leave?
Yeah, I left in 2008.

(47:49):
Why did you leave?
I had a medical emergency, mymom was dying, something like
that and then what happened?
I came back.
Okay, that second entry isanother immigration violation,
and now you have to wait outsideof the country for 10 years.
So what do they say?
I might as well not do anything.
I'm just going to stayundocumented in the United
States for the rest of my life.
Yeah, live in the shadow.
Sure, His wife is a UnitedStates citizen, Kids are US

(48:09):
citizens, Parents are UScitizens.
They have no option toimmigrate in the United States.
There is a couple of thingslike the UVs or whatnot.
Legalize our status.
A lot of things that I've heardfrom the Trump administration is
leave and come back the rightway, yeah, but when the right
way is 10 years later and peopleare like 45 years old and

(48:30):
they're like 55, like why wouldI even want to come back to the
United States?
I don't even know anybody back?
Yeah, I haven't been to Mexicoin 30 years, I haven't.
But if I come back, by the timeI'm 55, I'm not even be able to
work anymore.
Yeah, so incentivize people tobe able to qualify for waivers.
Stop, I would say stopcriminalizing things that people
do as under the age of 18.

(48:52):
So we have this crazy issuethat if you've ever claimed to
be a citizen of the UnitedStates, you're inadmissible for
life.
There's no waiver, there's nopardon for that.

Like lying to a Sure In a process somewhere.

Sure, and let me tell you, in the most ridiculous
situations, how this has comeacross.
There is no exception forminors.
If I bring in right now atwo-month-old with the birth
certificate of anothertwo-month-old who is a US
citizen and they find out, it'sprobably not going to happen,
but if they find out thattwo-month-old will never be able
to immigrate in his life, youmean the baby.

The baby, the two-month-old baby, the one who
had no say, the one who wasn'teven conscious, can't even lift
up their own head.

Yeah, yes, because there's something called
transferred intent.
So my intent to falsely claimhim or her as a US citizen goes
to that baby for the rest oftheir life.
And this actually we saw this avery famous case back in during
the Obama years, I think,actually no, it was during the
Trump administration.
The first one DACA kid and theyasked him when he went to the
consulate how did you come tothe United States?

(49:58):
He's oh, I don't know.
My parents took me to the US, Ithink, with my cousin's birth
certificate.
How old were you?
Like three years old, done Gone, never coming back.
And the uproar was doc, a kidcan't come back, blah, blah,
blah.
It wasn't that.
It was something very, again,very minor, very not minor, I
wouldn't say, because it's a bigdeal to falsely claim
citizenship.

(50:18):
I'm just saying that kid had nosay in what his parents or the
person who was crossing him intothe United States.
The same thing happens for somecriminal offenses right Underage

(50:38):
kids.
They don't have the legalcapacity to commit a crime and
yet who call this home?
We have to create some pathwaysfor them to be able to ask for
some sort of waiver or a pardonor something like that.
The majority of people paytaxes, they don't commit crimes,
they do everything that a UScitizen is supposed to be doing.
They just have none of the say,all the responsibilities, but

(51:02):
none of the benefit, right, theydon't get any social security,
they can't get any publicassistance for anything.
And so we're asking so much ofthem right, we can't ask them to
return to their country thatthey've never been to, right, or
they haven't been there in 30years or 40 years.
So there are some very commonsense things that we can do.
I think just right now, thereisn't any political will on

(51:25):
either side to make it happen.
And this is the first time I'ma pretty positive, optimistic
person.
This is the first time thatI've said we're not going to see
immigration reform for at leastfour years, if not eight or 12.
Maybe, yeah, and it depends,right, because one of the
biggest things that we haveright now is he might run again.

(51:48):
I don't know how that could be,but let's just say that he
doesn't.
My lawyers are working on it.
Sure, it's a red herring, Iwould say.
I think so.
Kind of like the Gulf ofAmerica, yeah, but nonetheless,
if JD Vance decides to run andthey have the political will and
he ends up winning.
Are we going to deal with now?
12 years of Republican control,where immigrants are going to

(52:09):
continue to be scapegoated, andless of a political will for
immigration reform?

That would be two presidents in a row who
marry Democrats.
Yeah, that is interesting.
What do you as a practicalmatter?
I'd imagine it requiressensitivity but also a realistic
eye to run a law firm from thebusiness end of things when some
percentage of your clienteleare financially perhaps unstable

(52:38):
.
Or you just described ascenario in which a whole
village would come together tosupport someone coming illegally
to the United States, but youhave some clients who are
following legal pathways to getinto the US.
How do you keep a law firmviable and also embrace a

(52:59):
community, knowing thatsometimes people won't be able
to pay or are going to be onpayment plans for a long time,
and people who go to law schooldon't necessarily also get an
MBA at the same time?
I said that somewhatfacetiously, but I think for a
lot of professionals they'recommitted to the ideals of their
profession.
But there's also the businessside.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow you run a successful law

(53:21):
firm, making sure that thelights stay on but also meeting
the needs of it?

Sure, my wife likes to say that I run a very
successful nonprofit.

You're the only 501c3 law firm out there.

But so most of our clients can't come up with
the money to pay up our fees.
One of the things that isdifficult with my practice is
that we give a lot of value toour clients.
We are, we have a lot ofconnection, we have a big team.
We're some 55 people on ourfirm.
Wow, we have a big supportstaff.
We have translators, we haveparalegals, we have

(53:55):
administrators, we have managers.
If you call our law firm,you're going to be, you're going
to.
We get somewhere around 2000incoming calls per month from
actual clients not fromprospective clients and people
that want to make appointmentswith us.
So we run the numbers.
We have a 95% answer ratewithin 30 seconds, 5% of our

(54:20):
calls.
They usually call and hang upso we take those out.
So running that part of thebusiness and I love running the
business side of the business-so strong focus on customer
service above all else.

Yes, yes.

And that is extremely expensive.
Right, having a lot of peoplesupport staff to take care of my
clients is extremely expensiveand yet we still offer financing
for most of our clients.
A lot of our clients aren'table to pay the fees we always
work with when somebody fallsbehind.
We kind of work with them andsay look, we know things are
tough, come sit with us, we'llrenegotiate.

(54:53):
Even if you can do a $50payment, just do something so
that we can move forward.

So I can tell my wife I'm working hard to
collect the money.

And yet I think most of my clients want to.
They want to pay.
They don't.
I have clients that didn't pay,that they got their residency a
year or two years ago.
And then they come back aftertwo years and they're like, look
, here's the last $200 payment.
I want to make it and I'm likeyou could have skipped town and
would never.
I've never filed a lawsuitagainst one of my clients for
not payment.
Yeah, there's a part of ouraccounts receivable that's not
collectible and that never willbe, and I think I'm okay with

(55:25):
that.
I'm able to pay my mortgage,I'm able to put my kids in
school and I live a pretty.
I'm going to Hawaii next week,so I'm okay.
I don't need to become amillionaire off of this.
I want to make sure that myemployees are well taken care of
.
I want to make sure that theyhave a good salary.
I want to make sure that theyhave good benefits.
I don't think that anybodyshould be.

(55:45):
If I want my employees, if Iwant my clients to have
dignified work and be valued atwork and make the money that
they deserve, I want myemployees to make the same, and
that's difficult.
I have to deal with internalemployee conflict.
I have to motivate them whenthings are tough, when we get

(56:06):
denials and we have to appeal.
We don't charge for appeals,for example.
Wow, for our clients.
We don't charge If a clientcomes in and says hey, I had my
case with another attorney andcan you take over?
Yes, we do, but with ourclients, if you get denied and
we can appeal, we will appealand we're not charging our
clients.
And in fact we actually havethis thing, which is actually

(56:26):
pretty great.
This is a small little plug,but we have this thing where we
call Nuestra Promesa and thepromise is that if your case
isn't approved, we'll give youthe attorney's fees back.
And the reason that we do thatis because I don't want my
clients to lose twice If theyget a denial and then they feel
like maybe their attorney didn'tdo their job.
So we'll tell the client like,look, do you want us to appeal

(56:48):
or do you want your money back?
And if you want to go toanother attorney, I'll give you
the file and I'll help the otherattorney.
The importance is in getting tothe end goal.
And I tell them like you haveto give me a chance at getting
there.
Some other way I might not havebeen able to do this, but can I
do this other thing?
And of course, it's my client'scase.
So if they decide that theydon't want to go that route,
then I have to say, okay, here'syour money back.

(57:08):
I'm very lucky in thatimmigration law isn't like other
types of law.
For example, if you are in acriminal case and you hire a
good hotshot attorney and he'sable to bring down the sentence
from a year to six months, didyou win?
And he's able to bring down thesentence from a year to six
months, did you win?
It's perception.
Sure, we get to decide are wegoing to get your residency, are

(57:30):
we going to get your visa?
Are we going to get yourcitizenship or not?
So it's a very black and white.
It's not like you got a halfresidency.
It's either your case wasapproved or it was denied.
That's right.
And also we get to select ourclients A criminal lawyer,
anybody who hires them, theywill represent them, regardless
if it was the most heinous crimeever or they're going to be

(57:52):
life in jail, and they're stillgoing to represent them fully.

So you get to someone comes in and gives you a
case and you're like I can'thelp you Listen, you just
admitted on video that you toldsomeone you were a US citizen
and you're clearly not.

There's nothing I can do, there's nothing I can
do for you, and so a bigpercentage of our prospective
clients.
Yeah, we take on a lot ofappointments because we have to
filter out a lot of people that,I'm sorry, I can't help you.

What's the number one thing that would
disqualify someone so?

that the tenure bar that I was telling you about
the client coming into theUnited States, staying for a
year, leaving and then comingback.
That second entry is a second.
It's not that we can't helpthem.
We can file the petition, wecan go through all the process,
but at the end you're going tohave to leave the country for 10
years and most of my clientsare going to say I don that, so
then we can't represent you.
There's other reasons criminalissues, or if a client comes to

(58:45):
me and says, hey, I married mywife, but she's not really my.
We're not, we're just doingthis for immigration papers, I'm
going to say look, I can't helpyou with that.
Just, I won't recommend youfiling a petition because it's
not ethical.
That doesn't happen, it's rare.
So I'm fortunate in that sense.
But again, we're able to selectour clients and out of the
clients we are able to select,we have a really good shot at

(59:08):
winning your case, and that'swhy we have this If you don't
win, if we don't win your case,then we'll give you your money
back.
So we're very fortunate in thatour success rate is 99.
I'm inventing the number, it'snot, I haven't calculated that,
but it's very little that we'dever have to return some client
fees because our case wasn'tsuccessful.
There's attorneys that I knowthat say it's like a 50-50.

(59:31):
It's not a 50-50.
As immigration lawyers, we knowif this case is going to be
approved or not and we want togive our clients that confidence
, but it also comes down to yourethics, because you could, if
you wanted to, be unethical.

you started out talking about your dad being
a notario, which in the US andMexico has a different
connotation and a different,perhaps, level of how it's seen
in society too.
But there's this and your dadis an ethical example.
But there's a lot of unethicalexamples, both of the studios
and also attorneys who will takea case knowing it's not going
anywhere, because you get,however many thousand dollars

(01:00:06):
out of someone and then I'msorry and you move on.
So that must've been a decision.
Maybe it was that motivated byseeing how your dad worked as
well in terms of that,absolutely.

Filex Sanchez (01:00:16):
My, my dad, and the whole money situation is
I've inherited from him.

David Sciarretta (01:00:20):
I remember one of the.
He was a nonprofit operator.
She was a nonprofit operatorhimself.

I remember the one of the first things that I
had to do working at his officewas I was a techie and I was one
of the first people in myfamily to like computers.
So I was dabbling with Exceland he said, hey, these are our
accounts receivable.
Can you just the boxes?
I'm talking about boxes ofaccounts receivable.
And he's okay, take this boxand kind of calculate how much
we charge them and how much theypaid and how much they owe and

(01:00:46):
other contact information.
And I started this Excelspreadsheet and I went through
the first box and it was about$80,000.
And this is when I was like 15years old, so maybe $150,000
today, and that was one of 10bucks.
And I remember being upset at mydad and saying, hey, how do you
run a practice like this?
This is not, we're going to bebankrupt soon.
And my dad pulls out a file hewas really good at this.

(01:01:08):
He pulled out a file and sayslook this person I immigrated,
his mom, his dad, eight of hissiblings, his cousin, his I've
made money on this case athousand times over.
He owes 500 bucks.
Let it go and like that.
And that was my dad's way ofbeing successful and also a way
of giving back.
And I think I inherited thatbecause, again, I see clients

(01:01:29):
and yeah, they still owe me somemoney and we'll all reach out
to them every once in a whileand be like, hey, if you can
make a payment, that would begreat.
And oh, yeah, we'll pay.
And I think most people I wantto, yeah, they don't want to
skip out.
I think I want to think that ifthey can't pay, it's because
they're spending their money ontheir family.
They're putting food on thetable.

(01:01:49):
The rents are crazy in SanDiego, they might've gotten laid
off, they might have a medicalemergency, and I'd rather live
my life like that than thinkingthat people are purposefully out
to not pay me and I'm okay withthat.
That's maybe my littlecontribution to that family.
You'll probably live a longerlife without that stress.

Yeah, in addition, apart from your dad,
who else are your role model?

My mom, your mom, yeah, 100% my mom and my dad.
They're so inspirational.
My dad passed away last yearyeah, thank you, and my mom
still works.
Money was secondary, theircommunity was first, their
clients were first.
They lived for their clientsand their community.

(01:02:32):
And my dad lived to 86 yearsold.
I think part of the reason thathe led, he had such a successful
and he lived to that age wasbecause he worked up until the
pandemic and it wasn't duringthe pandemic that we told him
like you got to stay home, it'stoo much risk to come out, and I
think that kind of acceleratedhis decline.
Now, in retrospect, I wish hewould have continued or had some

(01:02:53):
role.
That was his sustaining purpose.
He didn't do anything.
I would say he wasn't extremelyproductive, but I think that it
was just sort of something todo and just that connection with
the clients.
People would come in and mydad's, his name is Carlos and
everybody would call him DonCarlitos.
And oh, don Carlitos, and howhave you been?
And people have known him for30 years, 40 years in this

(01:03:16):
practice.
Because he helped out 10 oftheir family members To this day
.
And he had a.
She was sharp.
Even the last of his days hewould remember clients and I
would tell him like hey, mrRodriguez came in and he's oh,
mr Rodriguez, and his wife andhis mom and his cousin, and he
remembered everything.
My mom was also extremelyinspirational.
She, my mom, was also extremelyinspirational.
She's all about her clients.
I always joke with her thatafter college I told my mom I

(01:03:42):
said I'm going to take a yearoff before I go to law school.

I was already accepted to law school.
I wanted to take one year off.
My daughter as she edits thisepisode is listening to this.

She's in that same boat right now.
So she told me.
So I said I'm going to take ayear off.
And she said and she looked atme.
I don't think I've ever seenher so mad.
And she said I just want to letyou know that the year that you
graduate law school I'm goingto retire.
So if you want me to waitanother year working you hear
that, maya?
No, then by all means.
And I said, oh my.
And I was burnt out.
I graduated with two degrees.

(01:04:12):
I was burnt out from yourundergrad and so I was an
overachiever and wanted anyways.
So then I was like I can't dothat to my mom, I need to finish
.
So I went to law school andburned myself out my first year
of law school.
I almost flunked out, lost thescholarship and I just my mind
wasn't in it and got back intoit and I was able to graduate

(01:04:35):
and pass the bar and whatnot.
And then I told my mom I saidhey, remember, you promised me
that when I graduated law schoolyou were going to retire.
And she said no, did I say that?
And I said and to this dayshe's still working.
So she I say that it's funnyHindsight is 2020.
I have no idea what would havehappened if I wouldn't have gone
to law school right after that?
Would I still be a lawyer?

(01:04:56):
Would I still?
Would I have been in adifferent industry?
Would I have liked I don't knowmaking money off I don't know
being a bartender?
or a real estate agent?
I have no idea, but she is anextremely hard worker.
She's extremely tenacious.
It's not a it's not a moneysituation.
She's hard headed.
If she is, if my mom wantssomething to get done, she will

(01:05:18):
make it happen, and that'ssomething that I value, because
I have that sort of hard head inthis too, and if I want
something, it's going to happen,and I've learned that from her
and hardworking.
One of the earliest memoriesthat I have of my parents is me
waking up somewhere to 33o'clock in the morning and my
parents were working and thatwas an all day thing.
My parents were working.

(01:05:39):
My mom got into work at 7o'clock in the morning and left
at 9 o'clock 10 o'clock at night, every single day, and to this
day she still goes to work onSaturdays and Sundays Wow, so
extreme work ethic is bar none.
I wish I had her work ethic,honestly, and maybe I get a
little bit of guilt when I leavea little early, like today.

Don't tell her you're going to Hawaii.

Yeah, no, I told her she loves the fact that I
take a vacation.
I wish I would have done thatwith you guys.
When she sees the way I do thatwith my kids, I wish I would
have done that with you.
You don't get those years back,what?

do you do, apart from occasional vacations?
What do you do to sustainyourself, right To recharge your
own energy your own, just?
I can imagine that the tollthat this type of deep
commitment with clients takes onyou hear over and over again
pretty tough stories sometimes.
Sure, yeah, what do you do totake care of yourself so you can

(01:06:33):
be the best of yourself foryour clients, but also for your
family?

I don't have many hobbies.
I love cooking.
I love cooking because I haveto focus on the cooking and I
can't be thinking about otherthings.
It's kind of like meditation.
I love going to the gym.
I'm also good atcompartmentalizing.
So when I'm sitting with aclient and they're telling me
their god awful story, I'mfeeling it 100% and I don't ever

(01:07:01):
want to lose that empathy andsay the client before you had it
worse, Never.
And it doesn't matter howdifficult or mild their
experience was to this person,it's the worst thing that has
ever happened to them.
And I have issues with childabuse and they've been
victimized To somebody.
When this is one of the thingsthat I tell my employees a lot,

(01:07:23):
I said look, when you ask on alittle form and it says when did
you enter the United States andhow did you enter the United
States?
And we have this thing calledEWE, right, so entry without
inspection.
So it's an acronym and we justwrite it down and we just move
on to the next question.
That experience is one of themost God awful things that this
person has ever gone through.

(01:07:44):
That means they cross throughthe mountains or whatever, right
Through the hills, through thedesert, through the river.
It could have been a three dayordeal with no food or water.
For you, it's three letters.
For you, it's three letters andyou move on to the next
question.
And for them, sometimes myclients say I had to give myself
in because I would have died.

We have, incidentally, we have students
in our middle school who didthat, who are 12 years old, and
they did that on their own, withno adult Sure.
Yeah or with no family memberswith a coyote.

That's extremely some women and kids subjected to
sexual abuse, and so we dealwith these situations and again,
we so I'm 100% with them and Ican't tell you that I feel what
they feel, because I haven'tgone through that.
But I'm concentrated on thatand then when I'm, when I go
home, I disconnect and I'm ableto do that successfully and when

(01:08:38):
I'm home, I'm husband and I'mdad and I'm me and yes,
sometimes I bring home with me,but it was work with me home.
But I'm actually pretty good atjust, and that's why I try not
to see the news, because I don'twant to freak out.
So I'll see the headline andI'm like, oh, why did I see that
?

And I just gloss over it and I'll deal with
it when I get to work tomorrow.
I read your article about yourkid.

I think your son daughter making comments about
the claims that immigrants wereeating pets.

Yeah, that was scary, that was scary stuff.

And I've had very difficult conversations with my
eight-year-old and 10-year-oldat the time and I told him there
will be a moment where we mightget detained.
Understand that you're notgoing to answer any questions.

Remember, we had this conversation, we talked
about it.
Yeah, we talked about that.

Yeah, my kids are like why are you going to get
arrested, dad?
I'm like I'm not telling youI'm going to get arrested.
I'm just saying these aresituations that are going to
happen and we have to preparefor that and we will deal with
it when we deal with it.
There's no sense in we'll crossthat bridge when we get there.

(01:09:42):
There's no sense in me worryingabout something that hasn't
happened yet.
So I try to be very muchpresent for my clients when I'm
there and I'm able to disconnect.
So do I have to have hobby?
I don't drink, I don't do drugs.
I'm very much with my family.

No tattoos, no tattoos yeah.

I'm very much with my family.
I'm very much with my kids.
They know what I do and theythink I'm a superhero, which is
awesome.

I love that.

It'll last for a while Sure.
And it wears off at some point,Right yeah, and then you
recover it, right.

You recover, and then the way you talk about
your parents with that reverencethey're superheroes to you,
yeah exactly Exactly, and Ithink that's all we can do,
right.

We leave our mark in this world, we do what we
can.
We do the best that we can.
I recently saw an article, andI don't know what the title of
the book is, but it's like thedownfall or the essentially it's
the negative side of empathy.
This is a very right wing bookthat was published recently.
That again, lack of imagination, right.

(01:10:35):
When would we ever think thatempathy is the bad guy?
And I think the argument aroundit, if I'm able to articulate
it, which I don't think I can orI should, but it's somewhere
around that where, if we're tooempathetic, we're letting people
do whatever it is that theywant, and I don't think that's
what empathy is.
I think the number one valuethat I teach my kids is empathy.

(01:10:55):
I don't have it just for myoffice, I have it for my family
too, and we talk about it allthe time.
It doesn't mean that youjustify anything that they do,
any actions, bad decisions thatthey've taken.
People will make bad decisions.
You can still empathize withthem, regardless of where they
are in life or the decisionsthat they made.
Now my clients for the mostpart are law-abiding citizens,

(01:11:18):
but sometimes, man, they make meupset.
I'm like I'm trying to help youout and you're not helping me
and this is very frustrating.

Take an Uber.
Yes, take an.

Uber, don't get a DUI right, or start that case,
or file this or bring me thesedocuments before this deadline,
and it's quite frustrating.
But then again, or file this orbring me these documents before
this deadline, and it's quitefrustrating.
But then again that's mewanting what I want for them and
that's not what they want fortheir life.
So I have to go back to theempathy and just chill out and
say, okay, what do you want?
How can I help you?

You've been very generous with your time and
I have before the finalquestion.
I wanted to see if there'sanything that we haven't touched
on that you might have rattlingaround your head as we're
talking, or that you werethinking about driving here that
you'd like to say, and also howfolks can find you.

Sure, I think that I love what you're doing.
I think that this is such agreat platform for us to have
these sort of very in-depthdiscussions.
I don't think I've had adiscussion this in-depth with
anybody since the election.
So thank you for having me.
I appreciate that.
Thank you for your generosity.
I think that the one thing thatI would want people that might

(01:12:25):
hear this is, if this is thesituation that you're in, take
action, do something about it.
Don't just sit on the sidelineswaiting for something to happen
to you.
If you are listening to thisand you have a friend, a
neighbor, a family member who isan immigrant, again going back
to empathy is they've gonethrough a lot.
You have no idea.

(01:12:46):
Their stories are crazy.
Listen to them.
Don't judge, because we can.
A lot of times we can, even ifour heart's in the right place,
we'll still judge a little bit.
But they took the decisionsthat they took for the reasons
that they thought were importantat the time, right.
They didn't have all theinformation the way we do now.
Our hindsight is 20-20.
Most of my clients are good,hardworking people.

(01:13:08):
Most of my clients are peoplethat deserve an opportunity.
If we pluck one of these peopleout.
Our community is worse offbecause of that, because it
could have been and I don't meanto bring to devalue the human

(01:13:29):
experience to the work that youdo.
It might have just been myplumber or my gardener, but he
was a father, a husband, a wife,a parent, right?
Our communities are worse offwhen our families don't have

(01:13:51):
something that you and I maybetake for granted the fact that
they're going to be theretomorrow.
Of course, nobody has our lifeguaranteed, but we also don't
live with the constant fear thatI might come home and my wife
might leave me a voicemailsaying, hey, I got picked up and
oh, by the way, I'm in, I'mdeported.
This is the fear that many ofmy clients live, the fear that
when they drive down the streetand they see a cop car, you and

(01:14:15):
I might be a little scared oh,did I do the turn signal or did
I go past the stop sign a littlebit?
But no, they're frozen in fear.
Or the fear of when your spousecalls you on their phone and
you're like is this the call?
Is this the call that's goingto say, hey, I'm in detention or
, worse yet, I got deported.
Because that can happen in lessthan two hours while you're at

(01:14:38):
work, while you're dropping offyour kids.
And again, our communities areworse off.
How do you think those kidslive when the mom and the dad
are having these conversationsat night of what's going to
happen when one of us isn't here.
The mom and the dad are havingthese conversations at night of
what's going to happen when oneof us isn't here, and even if
those conversations are heldbehind closed doors, kids are so

(01:15:00):
intuitive.
Kids are smart.
They'll know, and even ifthey're US citizens, they can't
live a full life with the fearthat dad might not be here
tomorrow morning.
They just can't.
And so what's happening is thatwe're creating a class of a
second class citizen, of UScitizens, that, unless they take
birthright citizenship away,they're going to continue being

(01:15:22):
US citizens, but they're goingto be second class citizens
because they're just not goingto be able to live a normal life
, because they always have thatfear one foot in, one foot out,
contingency plan all the time.
And what's going to happen in2030 years?
Those kids are not going to beable to grow up, to live a life
of being able to go to college,contribute to our society the

(01:15:42):
way we would like for them to doBe fully present in their
family's lives, as a husband anda wife and having their own kid
.
So the repercussions of what'shappening now, yes, we'll be
seeing now, but we'll bemagnified in 20 years.

Yeah, that's, I hadn't thought of it that way,
with a second class citizens,you know, us citizens just
living in that kind of limbo.

But there's hope and I don't want to.

I don't want to leave the conversation on a
sour note.

I think that there's hope and I don't want to
leave the conversation on asour note.
I think that there's hope and Ithink that the hope is if, as a
community, we can come and standbehind, sort of, some of the
more progressive policies and,with a lot of empathy, really
create a political movement, thependulum will swing.
And I feel that it's kind oflike the bigger they are, the
harder they'll fall right.
So the bigger the MAGA movementis, the harder it will swing,
and I feel that it's kind oflike the bigger they are, the

(01:16:36):
harder they'll fall right.
So the bigger the MAGA movementis, the harder it will swing
and we will be able to have notjust immigrants' rights but
LGBTQ rights and a lot of thingsthat are right now caught in
the crosshairs we will have.
I think the hope is that we cancome together as a community
and if there is no united fronton the political end, at least

(01:16:56):
as a community we have a unitedfront and we are the resistance
right now.
So I think what I told myemployees is like all we got to
do is survive these four years.
That's it.
That's all we got to do is justsurvive and we'll make it
through.

So the last question is a hypothetical.
Sure, let's say you have theopportunity to design a
billboard for the side of thefreeway and it can't be a union
law group billboard.
Sure, what does your billboardsay about what you value in life
, about the way you see theworld?

(01:17:31):
Remember, people who aredriving by 70 miles an hour got
to capture that.
What does your billboard say?
What's the first thing thatpops into your mind?

Our time?
Just a billboard and youzooming by at 70 miles an hour.
Our time on this earth isextremely limited.
We only have a very short timeto leave an impact on this world
.
The impact that I would wantour people to do is the impact

(01:18:05):
that brings people up, thatsupports people, that elevates
people, rather than takes awayrights or disenfranchises people
or sees them versus us.
So I would say you only have avery specific amount of time,
and the selfish, the egocentrictendencies won't bring you

(01:18:30):
happiness.
It definitely is going to be.
How do you elevate yourcommunity?
And so we have a very shortperiod of time.
Make the most of it, becausewe're not going to be here
forever.
Now, how do you condense thatinto a billboard?

It's okay For this one.

you get a traffic jam so people drive real slow,
so we can stretch it out.

Sometimes people go.
Could I have two?

billboards, or the ones in Las Vegas?
Yeah, exactly the series ofbillboards.
Someone asked me if they couldhave a Goodyear blimp.
Yeah, I would say.
Life is short, make the most ofit.
Support your community, andwe're all in this together.

Felix, I really want to thank you for the
generosity of your time, yourexpertise, your stories.
It was very moving the way youcharacterize your parents as
role models, and we'll link toyour firm's contact information
in the show notes Union LawGroup.
Anybody can look it up as well,and again I thank you for this.

(01:19:31):
I also thank you for the parentuniversity evening that you did
with our community and reallylet your expertise to that my
pleasure.

So thank you for having me, thank you so much for
coming, of course, anytime.

Thanks for joining us on the Hangout
Podcast.
You can send us an email atpodcastinfo at protonme.
Many thanks to my daughter,daughter Maya, for editing this
episode.
I'd also like to underline thatthis podcast is entirely
separate from my day job and, assuch, all opinions expressed

(01:20:05):
herein are mine and mine alone.
Thanks for coming on in andhanging out.

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