#96 Advocacy & Education: An Interview with Border Angels' Ana Miguel

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Ana Miguel, Educational Programs Coordinator for Border Angels, shares her personal connection to immigration work as the daughter of migrants from Guanajuato, Mexico, revealing how her family history shapes her passion for humanitarian border assistance and activism.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Hangout Podcast.
I'm your host, david Sharetta.
Thank you to my daughter, maya,for editing this and many of
the episodes over the past twoyears, despite being a full-time
student and balancing thedemands on her time.
You'll notice in the show noteswe have a link where folks can
donate to support the show, ifyou're so inclined.

(00:23):
Thank you in advance.
Any donation amount matters andcounts and helps us to continue
to do this high level work andbring you the quality content
that we strive to each and everyepisode.
In this particular episode, Ihad the privilege of sitting
down with Ana Miguel.

(00:43):
Ana Miguel is EducationalPrograms Coordinator for Border
Angels.
You can find them atborderangelsorg.
She was raised in San Diego andearned her associates and then
her bachelor's degree in ChicanaChicano Studies at San Diego
State University.
Ana joined the Border Angelsteam in September of 2022.

(01:07):
And, as comes across in ourconversation, she is a
passionate advocate for hercommunity and looks forward to
continuing the mission of BorderAngels in terms of educating
and supporting the community onthe rights of migrants and
refugees.
In our conversation, it is veryapparent that Ana's own

(01:30):
personal and family journey isintimately and inextricably
bound to the mission and visionof Border Angels, and that's
what makes this conversationextra powerful.
I hope you enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
Welcome, ana.
Thank you so much for spendinga little time chatting this

(01:51):
afternoon.
Of course, I'd like to start atthe beginning with you, your
history, who you are, where youcome from, and then also what
brings you to this current workthat you're doing.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, so my name is Ana Miguel.
I am from San Diego born andraised, and I honestly fell in
love with the idea of this typeof work through my parents.
Both of my parents came fromGuanajuato in the late 80s and I
guess growing up I reallyassumed that everything was easy

(02:31):
.
You know, I really believed inthat whole idea of, yeah, you
apply today to get your papers,you'll get them, you know, by
the end of the month, and Ididn't learn about a lot about
their history until I startedworking here and growing up I
felt like I just was neverconcerned of their status, even

(02:53):
though growing up in San Diego,so close to the border, it was
something that I just alwaysfelt so protected by.
And, you know, even just having, uh, you know, all my siblings
there.
You know, I'm the youngest offive kids, I am the only woman
from, from my whole family, andso you, you had to grow up being

(03:16):
tough because you probably gotyes, had to wrestle for
everything yes.
So even just growing up in a bigfamily, it's sometimes, you
know, you, I feel like, in a way, you feel what's lacking, and
something that I thankfullynever felt was that safety.
I know that that's notsomething that a lot of people

(03:36):
can, you know, say, and even formy brothers that I'm growing up
, they grew up at a time wheremy mom didn't have papers and,
again, that was something that Ididn't know until me being 25.
Okay, so your parents, at leastyour mom came undocumented in
the beginning and theneventually went through the
process yes, so my dad was ableto help her with her status

(03:59):
because he was able to getpapers through reagan under the
whole amnesty thing.
And even with that, you know,and with everything that we're
seeing now with this newpresident or with his second
term, is that my dad alsobelieved in that whole.
You know, hey, this personsaved me.
He must be great.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
He referred to.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Reagan, yes, and then now we see like no, reagan did
so much shit.
He harmed a lot of communities,specifically, you know, black
and brown communities, and yetyou know there's this idea that
my dad has that oh hey, he'sgreat, and I think that's
something that we're stillseeing today with Trump, where

(04:44):
you know words matter, and withthe way that he speaks about
migrants in this community.
It's something that's very,very harmful and even though he
may provide some sort of pathwayfor one certain kind of people,
he's not creating that for thewhole population or that whole
specific community, and I thinkthat's something that is needed.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Let's talk about what it was like when you first
learned that your mom did nothave papers, and then we can
talk about the whole Reaganpiece.
So what was that like?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
For one.
Just some more context.
My mom passed away 10 years agoso even with that, it's like I
couldn't have that conversationwith her.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
I had to have it with my siblings so you never didn't
find out until after she hadpassed away so you didn't find
out until after she had passedaway that for a time she did not
have papers, and then she gother papers.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yes, yes, yeah, so my brother that told me we have a
six year age difference and hewent his whole life without, you
know, her having papers.
Well, his childhood and thenyou know, that's just.
It was really interesting forme to, you know, even just like,
talk to him about that andknowing that he was scared and

(06:01):
he had that fear, and heremembered hearing my parents
talk about it, you know, in themornings when they thought
nobody was there, he would hearabout, hey, well, like this is
the process that we're, you knowthat we know we have to take.
We have to either go back toCuarez or pay the fee.
I'm not sure how much it was,but I remember my dad telling me
that there was a fee that theycould pay to not have to go to

(06:23):
Juarez.
And that's what they chose todo because they were scared.
I mean, they already had fivelittle kids, Like a fine of some
kind, yes, yeah, and theyalready had all of us.
So that just wasn't somethingthat my dad was willing to risk,
even though you know he knewthat that could have earned my

(06:43):
mom her papers.
He was like, hey, you know what?
No, fuck that we're not doingthat.
So he was able to pay that finefor her and then that's how she
was able to get her statusfixed, and I mean even the whole
time that she was alive.
And I mean to this day.
Even my dad, he only has hisgreen card.
He's still so afraid of havingthat citizenship test because he
thinks that if he fails orsomehow the government's going

(07:06):
to find him and they're going tolike take him out of here.
You know and he's been here mywhole life I'm 27 now he still
has his green card has nevertried applying for citizenship
because of that fear.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
So he became a Reagan fan, yeah.
So, how does that?
I'm assuming he's not a Trumpfan.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Did he stay a Reagan fan throughout Reagan's whole?
How does that work?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
So with that, I really believe that he kind of
idolized him because, yes,reagan saved my dad, right, you
know, and that's basically whathe did.
And I understand where my dadcomes from, especially because
he was the one that actually, uh, crossed all of his siblings as
well as my mom from Tijuana tohere and, uh, that was just

(07:54):
something that I remember when,uh, when I first did my first
water job and when I firstapplied to here, he didn't
understand to him he was, he waslike, hey, I crossed for you,
why are you doing it?
And then, even then, with that,you know, it's like, I guess,
again, with our water drops, wenever crossed into Mexico.
We're always in the UnitedStates, you know, with that

(08:16):
safety that we're on public land, that we have a right to be
there, and yet for my dad, henever felt that safety when he
was making those treks, you know, and I guess in a way it feels
kind of like what the fuck?
You know, like I did it for you, you know.
So you don't have to exactly,and that's something that I know

(08:37):
I am choosing to do, but it'sbecause I have that choice.
There's so many people that wesee and even when we don't see
them and we just see their, theitems that they leave behind,
whether it's gallons of waterthey've consumed from the ones
that we have placed, or anyitems or even clothing that has
left behind.
You know, that's how we knowthat somebody is there, and I

(08:58):
remember my first water drop wehad.
We were already making our wayback to our vehicles and I found
a jacket.
It was like a constructionmen's jacket and as soon as I
saw it, I thought of my dad, youknow, because it's how'd that
feel it was rough your dadworked in construction.
Yes, yeah, he did uh plumbingand he's still uh doing plumbing

(09:20):
to this day, but it's it'ssomething that I think has you.
Don't think about it.
You know, I feel like it'sreally hard for people to
understand just what thatexperience may be like and also
the trauma that it that you knowyou hold from from seeing all
of that.
And I remember that first waterdrop, before I even went, and

(09:41):
my dad was just like making surethat I had everything, that I
was fine and I was prepared.
He was like, hey, do you want alittle?
uh, a little pocket yes, alittle pocket knife and he told
me that that's what he wouldcarry um every time that he
would cross, because he knewthat it was dangerous, you know.
And again for our water dropsthat we do, thankfully we don't.

(10:01):
Uh, yeah, we don't.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Let's get that clear at the front Whoever's going to
want to volunteer for these?
You don't need to go get aknife.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
No, exactly.
So you know there's safetythere that we know is guaranteed
, but that's not something thatmy dad had, or that his siblings
had, or that my mom had, and tothis day it's not something
that you can guarantee tosomebody that's trying to cross
or enter the United Statesillegally, you know.
So I think that's also just abig difference.

(10:29):
Every time we do, our waterdrops is wanting to emphasize
that, hey, this is a smallglimpse of what the reality is,
but please do not assume thatyou understand now what an
individual crossing throughthese routes is actually facing,
because, for one, you have thatsafety that somebody's guiding
you and that you know you're notgoing to get left behind.
Two, you know that you're goingto get back to your ac vehicle.

(10:51):
You know you're not going tohave to deal with hey, oh,
there's border patrol.
Oh, hey, there's this.
You know you have that safetyhere we're having dinner at
viejas casino exactly yes, so.
So you know that's a hugedifference and also it's just
like hey, we're doing it inbroad daylight, you know, if we
hear noise, we don't have toworry about finding a hiding

(11:13):
spot.
We don't have to worry about ifwe hear helicopters.
Even out where we do, the waterdrops out in the desert we
sometimes hear gunshots frompeople just recreationally
shooting out there, and nowthat's something that we know
because we're familiar with thearea.
But for individuals who arecrossing at night, who don't
know where they even are, if youhear a gunshot you're gonna

(11:34):
assume they're coming after you,you know.
So I think that that's alsojust something that we really,
really wanna emphasize with allof our programs, and especially
me that I'm the educationalprograms coordinator here.
I really want to make sure thatanybody that comes out with us
is educated on the realities andnot on what they're hearing
from social media, what they'rehearing from media, what they're

(11:56):
even hearing from the president.
We know that.
You know, trump really has beenusing a lot of negative
language, even in the pastthrough his first term the bad
hombres, bad mujeres to labelpeople.
You know, and if you hear thatfrom somebody that has that type
of power that is.
In that type of position,people are going to blindly

(12:16):
believe, you know, and I thinkthat even I keep thinking about
my dad and Reagan, because heblindly believed him, because it
helped him, it served him, itdid something good for him and,
thankfully, because of that, hewas able to, you know, create
this life here, that where meand my siblings were able to,
you know, not have to worryabout our status, not have to
worry about, hey, we're going toschool, are our parents going

(12:37):
to be back when we're here, youknow?
Or if we see a cop, hey, isthat person going to stop us?
Are they going to check my dad?
Are they going to check mymom's identification?
You know, I never had to worryabout that, and that's something
that I think a lot of peopledon't recognize.
It's such a privilege being herein this country, because
there's so many people that, tothis day, are living in that

(12:59):
fear of hey, there's an ICEvehicle that just drove by.
Are they going to pick me up?
Are they going to pick me up?
Are they going to question me?
Am I going to be able to goback home to my kids?
Am I going to be able to goback home to my pets?
Am I going to go back home toeven see my family?
And I think that's somethingthat is just very difficult.
And even just personally, when Iwas younger I mean both I grew

(13:22):
up with two family members thatgot deported.
That one day they were here,the next day they weren't, you
know, and that's something that,weirdly, was normalized.
I didn't even question it.
I was like, hey, yeah, that'sjust what happens if you're
along the border, if you don'thave papers, you get deported.
You know, and that's somethingthat I know a lot of people
don't have to think about,that's something that a lot of
times people don't have to thinkabout, that's something that a

(13:44):
lot of times people don't evenhave to worry about.
But that fear has created, youknow, a way or something that
has just isolated so many people.
With our day labor outreachprogram, when we go out to the
Home Depots here in San Diego,we saw that a lot of fear was

(14:06):
being felt by by those laborers,especially in the beginning of
the year when there was iceraids happening all around the
county, even just northerncalifornia that a lot of these
laborers who are literally justlooking for work, who are just
out there trying to get hiredfor for that day.
They're now waiting in theirvehicles.
They don't feel safe enough tobe out there standing waiting

(14:27):
for work.
Why?
Because they know that, hey, Icould either be just, you know,
just be seen for who I am, beinga darker skinned person, and
they're going to assume that I'mnot from here, you know, and
it's something that's just.
It's rough.
That program honestly alwayshits close to home, because my

(14:50):
dad that were construction andthen even based my grandpa to
his dad I always saw themworking on the weekends, taking
whatever job they could, andit's something that, with a lot
of those laborers, especiallythe latino ones that I'm able to
, you know, speak in spanishwith and interact with and
engage with, uh, they're alwaysso eager to even just show me

(15:13):
pictures of their families,especially because, thankfully,
we have created that trust withthem, you know, with being out
there at least once a month andactually having a conversation
with them.
I think that's's something thatis very empowering in a way,
because it allows you to shareabout yourself and about who you

(15:33):
are, and I think that'ssomething that a lot of these
laborers often don't have,because nobody's interacting
with them.
They see them as being homeless, they see them as being
dangerous, they see them as justbeing alcoholics or smokers.
And you have to think aboutwhat they have lived to have to
fall into substance abuse oreven just using substances to

(15:54):
want to continue living, to wantto continue being there waiting
for work, knowing that work isslow right now, knowing that
that the home depots arehonestly getting super out of
pocket with security presencethere and as well as even just
people that are shopping atthese Home Depots.
It was rough last year that, atthe end of the year, one of the

(16:16):
laborers that again that trustthat he showed me a clip of
security peppers spraying them,you know, and that's something
that I had such a hard time evenjust watching it because, like,
these are literally just people.
They're somebody to someone,they have a story, they're here
for a reason and all they'redoing is looking for work.

(16:36):
That's all that they're doing.
They just wanna be able to getmoney to be able to, you know,
buy a coffee, buy a meal, beable to send it back home, and
that's, I think, something thata lot of times people just
forget.
Why?
Because it's so normalized.
You see these laborers thereall the time.
One of those spots that wevisit is here on Marketplace on

(17:00):
Imperial.
I grew up I'm still in that area, that area, you know, and when
I was a kid, driving to home towith my dad, I'd always see them
there.
I never questioned, right, youknow, it was just something that
was like, hey, that's wherepeople look for work and that's
that with this, we've beenseeing that there's also been a
lot of, there's been an increaseof different laborers that are

(17:24):
also arriving.
Last year I saw the oldest andthe youngest labor that I had
seen.
Uh, this labor.
He reminded me so much of mygrandpa, like he was an older
man.
He wasn't somebody that looksstrong, he looks like somebody
that he's lived yes, he shouldbe retired yes
exactly.
And that one shook me.

(17:45):
And when I saw this young boythat he there's no way that he
did not lie about his age, umand again, I completely
understood as to why he lied.
He didn't know me, you know.
That's, that's perfectly fine,uh, but he said he was 17 years
old.
There was no way he was 17.
He looked like a child.
He looked like he was maybe 15or younger.

(18:09):
So that was really rough to see.
Even there is just how.
There's still the situationthat you know.
Individuals are still fleeingand are still going to be
fleeing their countries in hopesof a better life here.
They still blindly believe inthe American dream and
unfortunately, we know that thatdream has cost so many people

(18:31):
their lives, and it's rough.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Thank you for sharing that, and I think our listeners
can glean from that too, thatyour own personal story is so
wrapped up in your work.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
So backing up a little bit, grew up in San Diego
.
You obviously have that familynarrative that's connected to
this work.
Then you go to college, so isyour major at all connected to
this work?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Well, I'm a proud alumni from San Diego City
College.
I earned my associate's insocial and behavioral studies.
So right there I.
Pretty connected, yeah, I feellike I have always wanted to do
some sort of like humanitiestype of work, so that for me I
felt like it was just, it justfell into my hands.

(19:29):
And then, uh, from there Itransferred to san diego state
and I earned my bachelor's inchicano and chicana studies and
a minor in political science.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Also connected.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yes, so thankfully, I am using my degrees, but I have
always just wanted to supportpeople.
I think that, for me, is justsomething that I want to be able
to give back and be able toassist individuals who maybe
don't know where to go, and Ithink that's something that I

(20:02):
have always been very passionateabout, because growing up, I
was the main translator for myparents you know, you were that
kid in the parent-teacherconferences yes, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Or when the school called, especially when schools
didn't have as manySpanish-speaking staff.
Right, yes, exactly they go.
Hey, could you?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, and you know, this was back in the time where
I remember that they had removedthe whole bilingual shit in
schools too.
So that was obviously just wild.
Again, girl, we come to SanDiego, but whatever.
But with that, like I knew whatmy parents lacked, especially
with my mom she did pass awayfrom ALS, so it was just very,

(20:43):
very heavy.
And having to deal with doctors, you know, and even having to
translate that medical jargonthat at the time I was 15.
I had no idea what I was saying, I had no idea what I was even
translating, but I knew itneeded to be done.
You know, and I think that'ssomething that has really pushed

(21:05):
me to just want to assistanybody that I can and also just
listen to people.
I think something that we see alot here is, maybe you know,
that we don't listen to people'sstories.
We don't allow them to shareabout who they are, what they've
been through.
We just see them for, oh, thisis who you are now, that's it.
I don't listen to people'sstories.
We don't allow them to shareabout who they are, what they've
been through, we just see themfor, oh, this is who you are now
, that's it.
I don't care about your past, Idon't care about anything else,

(21:27):
you know, and just somethingthat I've always seen within,
you know, just the Latinocommunity, is that for us you
might say we like to cheese meator we like to, you know, just
like be in each other'sbusinesses, but I think that for

(21:47):
us it's really important tohave that connection, you know,
to connect with people and to tojust be a resource, you know,
and be somebody that has empathyand sympathy for people.
And something that I have beenvery, very proud and I'm just
very, very, always so happy tosee when there are medical
student groups who want to joinus for our programs.
And that is more because ofthat personal connection of
seeing what was lacking with mymom's care.

(22:10):
But one thing that I think aprogram or a group that really
stood out with me is one from UCIrvine and there were all
first-generation Latino studentswho wanted to see what it was
like for an immigrant to make ajourney or what they may
experience with dehydration,with heat exposure and all of

(22:34):
that.
So that was actually one of mylast water drops that I held
during the summer.
That was rough.
I do not recommend any summerwater drops that I held during
the summer.
Uh, that was rough.
Uh, I do not recommend anysummer water drops.
That was the first time that Ihad actually seen the desert
bead in the triple digits andthat's you're down.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
I'm assuming somewhere near ends.
Oh, let's see, I'm just tryingto think you don't have to be
too specific, but but within anhour's drive of here.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yes, yeah, an hour east from San Diego and it gets
hot.
I mean, I don't think it waseven noon and it was already 112
.
I remember that and I tend toshare this story a lot with in

(23:32):
my presentations or whenever I'mleading groups, because I want
them to understand just how muchthese spaces can impact you,
even if you feel safe, even ifyou feel you know, hey, I'm the
one that's actually leading thegroup.
There's times where you feel sosmall and I remember that day I
felt so tiny.
Uh, with this was an amazinggroup, I you know they were
great overall and I just reallyenjoyed, um, how passionate,
connected they were to to thework and the whole.

(23:52):
Uh, water drop.
But I remember, as we were, wewere already ending it, walking
back to our cars.
We were probably like 20minutes away from our cars.
That's when the heat hit me.
It felt horrible.
It was so humid that day andthe only way that I feel like
I've been able to describe it isit literally feels like you're

(24:13):
in an oven.
Right, there's no, there'snothing to get you out of there,
you know.
And after that I had to stepaway from the org.
Really, I just I took like twoweeks off.
I just didn't understand.
I couldn't understand howthere's people that don't have

(24:39):
any other choice, who have tomake that trek, who have to make
that trek, who have to makethat journey.
Uh, and you know that's comingfrom somebody that's able-bodied
, you know I can walk, I feelstrong.
But there's people who are deaf, who are old seniors, who, you
know, maybe missing a limb, orwho are blind.

(24:59):
You know, how do you preparesomebody like that to make a
journey?
And again, I, I completelyunderstand that for our water
drops you know we probably do orfor those, uh, those desert
water drops, it's probably atmost six hours that we're out
there.
That's all in one day.
There's individuals who aremaking these tracks from, you

(25:22):
know, they can be all the wayfrom down south, you know, from
South America.
We've seen individuals arrivingfrom the Middle East, even from
China, that are making thesetracks.
And again, you know, that'sinsane to me, even though we're
doing this work, and even thoughI'm involved in this work, it's
wild to to do that, you know,and putting yourself in danger,

(25:46):
because that's what you're doing.
You're putting yourself indanger and again, even with with
myself, that I'm like, hey, Ifeel pretty strong, I'm like I
could do these walks.
Imagine being a mother carryinga child, you know, and it's I
don't know, that was just.
It was rough, uh, and I am justvery, very thankful that here

(26:08):
in our team maybe because we areso small we just really support
each other's mental health.
We understand that this workdrains you, it does, it pulls at
you and I know I don't want toleave the work, but it's tiring
and it's something that I amalways very, very transparent

(26:31):
with the students and withanybody that joins us.
It's like, hey, we've beenaround since 1986.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
It's 2025.
Pre-operation Gatekeeper.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes, and we're still doing this, you know.
And then even with withOperation Gatekeeper, that's
always something that wehighlight as well, you know, hey
, like that was in 1996.
And even just you know, I knowsometimes people want to say, oh
hey, republicans, democrats,operation Gatekeeper was under
Bill Clinton, there's, you knowit's.

(27:01):
That's a whole, whole messright there too.
You know we have to understandthat a lot of these policies
weren't created for people ofcolor.
You know it was to find thatperfect or that proper American,
and a lot of times that doesn'tan American or the way that
Americans are supposed to berepresented doesn't align with

(27:22):
somebody that's dark skinned,you know.
And even with shit that washappening with who was it?
Biden, where you know he rolledout the CBP One app?
Yeah, it was, it helped people.
But it's also important thatthat was not well done, you know

(27:42):
well, the first.
My understanding is that thefirst iterations of it, first of
all, didn't work on android itwas whack, it was horrible and
so we 95 of the world doesn'thave iphones exactly, and even
another issue was that you hadto submit a picture of yourself.
Right, people were standing infront of a direct sunlight, in

(28:03):
front of a light.
It was not reading theirfeatures, yeah, and it's like if
that's one of the first stepsto be able to get an appointment
to seek asylum, and you'retelling me that you can't even
see me or that your, you know,uh, technology can't even read
my features.
How am I supposed to moveforward with this?
You know?
How am I going to earn anappointment?
How am I going to do this?
How am I going to do that?

(28:23):
And even with just the fact thatthe translations were off not
everybody speaks English like,come on, you know, and if one
person you know were to writesomething incorrect, that'll
fuck up their whole, um, theirwhole case, you know, and it's,
it's something that, just again,when people want to believe
that, hey, why didn't thisperson enter legally?

(28:45):
Or hey, why didn't this personjust seek asylum, it's not that
fucking easy, it's not, and Ithink that's something that just
is frustrating.
I don't know how else todescribe it, but it's just so
frustrating to know that there'sso many people that still
believe in these false ideas,you know.

(29:06):
And then even with uh, thatwhole cbp1 app that was honestly
a shit show, uh.
And with operation gatekeeper,where it's like these supposedly
paths to to legal status, butyet when it doesn't work for
people, what happens is theyturn to dangerous routes to be
able to enter the united states.
So with that whole preventionthrough deterrence, that shit's

(29:29):
bullshit, it doesn't work.
We know that people, whenthey're in the um state of hey,
I'm, if I don't leave, I'm gonnadie, my family's gonna die, I'm
gonna be in danger, you'regonna flee.
You're gonna flee no matterwhat and you're gonna do it in
whatever way.
I don't leave, I'm going to die, my family's going to die, I'm
going to be in danger, you'regoing to flee.
You're going to flee no matterwhat and you're going to do it
in whatever way you can.
We've been seeing here inImperial Beach in La Jolla that

(29:51):
boats that are capsizing.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
The bongos.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yes, the boats that people who don't know how to
swim are getting on and arechoosing to put their lives at
risk to either drown or make ithere alive.
And I don't understand, like Igenuinely do not understand and
I know I'm privileged to not beable to understand just how much

(30:14):
danger and fear you have to befeeling to get onto a boat or to
do that trek, knowing that youdon't know if it's guaranteed
for you.
And I think something that I amI'm really glad that we have in
the program that we have hereis our Volviendo a Casa program,
because I think sometimespeople assume that everybody

(30:36):
that makes it here makes italive, it's guaranteed, no
matter what.
That's not the reality.
That's not the truth.
Here.
Makes it alive, it's guaranteed, no matter what.
That's not the reality, that'snot the truth.
And with one of our programswe're able to assist low-income
families as well as paying withthe remains and being able to
transfer those remains back totheir respective countries of
origin.
You know that's the reality.

(30:57):
You know there's individualswho make it, who attempt to make
it to the United States andunfortunately lose their lives.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
So where?
How do you do their familymembers come to you and say, hey
, we need help?
Yeah, getting the remains home,and then you make the financial
resources available.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, so there's a funeral home here called I
believe it's for now, do thelapis look they sometimes
families will be like, hey, thisis the case and they'll reach
out to us.
The funeral home will reach outto us.
Or sometimes people just knowus through word of mouth.
That's actually how a lot ofour programs work, even with our

(31:40):
bond program, that people justfind out about us, they have our
number and they'll contact us.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Tell us a little bit about the bond program.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
So with that shelter aid, a bond program that was
actually rolled out in 2019 soit's even before I joined the
team and with that specificprogram it was launched because
of individuals being detainedwithout being able to pay those
bonds.
These detention centers that wesupport currently are the

(32:09):
Adelanto, the Imperial Regional,otay Mesa, and I believe
there's one more that we justrecently added.
We actually had that first casethis year.
But with these detentioncenters, I think sometimes
people don't know that to pay abond, you have to be a citizen.
You can't, you know, just ifyou don't have a status or if

(32:31):
you don't have legal status here, you can't just show up and pay
it, even if you know thatperson that's detained.
And a lot of times, with thoseindividuals who are detained,
they don't have the money to payfor those bonds.
Why?
Because they assume that oncethey make it here, they're going
to make it here without beingcaught, and a lot of times all
the money that they have is usedto pay for that trek you know,

(32:52):
to enter the United States, andsomething that we've seen that's
honestly just sucks is that fora lot of even first-time
offenders, bonds are being setup at ten thousand dollars and
they don't have that type ofmoney.
You know, even sometimes withthe lower ones that we've seen,
which are typically about fivethousand, they have a hard time

(33:13):
paying those bonds as well.
And with that program I I thinkit's just it's a program that
honestly is pretty rough,especially when they call us.
So I think sometimes peopleassume that you know it's like a
call center, or hey, you calland a robot picks up.
No, it's us, it's our team thatactually answers all of these

(33:37):
phone calls, and sometimes it'sdifficult when you can't
understand them.
You know, when it's theiraccents that are like hey, I'm
sorry, but can you speak alittle slower, or hey, like you
know it's because they're either.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
So that's one of the false assumptions that everybody
is.
People who don't think aboutthis in a detailed, rigorous way
think everybody's coming frommexico.
So that's a?
That's not true.
Yeah, they might be passingthrough mexico, but they're not
mexican, so there's caravanswith people from all over, and
then there might be non-spanishspeakers as well.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yes, so we actually have seen individuals from all
over the country.
With this program, as of now,we've been able to help
individuals from 32 differentcountries.
So, yes, like you said, it'snot just from Mexico, even
though we're here in San Diego.
A lot of those recipients arefrom the Middle East, they're
from Central America.

(34:36):
We have seen individuals evenfrom Ukraine, russia and China,
who who need assistance, whoneed that support, and with this
, this program, it's, it's.
I thought it was just wild thatthe way that people find those
our phone number is literally byjust being it passed around
through each other.
You know, it's not that theywere even familiar with us.

(34:58):
You know, back when they werein their respective countries it
was until they were detainedthat they're like oh, there's
actually somebody here that'slocal that's able to assist with
paying those bonds.
And those phone calls are rougha lot of times because you know
that they're in a moment oflike, hey, I want to get the
fuck out of here, I don't wantto be detained, I want to get
out, I want to be free.

(35:19):
And we know that thoseattention centers it's not like
if you're in a four-story hotel,you're probably the shittiest
conditions you've ever seen andyou've ever been in and during

(35:40):
COVID as something that, again,I am very, very thankful that I
to take donations out there, youknow whether they were face
masks or hand sanitizer and theyhad to be told hey, we can't
even access the detentioncenters, we can't enter them,
they're not open to the public.
And with one of the cases thatwe were able to assist, he
actually spoke out about theconditions that he was seeing.
He actually spoke out about theconditions that he was seeing

(36:02):
and during this time,unfortunately, if you tested
positive for COVID, you werejust sprayed with chemicals,
chemicals that were not safe tohumans, chemicals that caused a
reaction on this man's skin andthat even gave him health issues
.
But yet again, that's what'shappening behind closed doors,
when there's no cameras, whenthere's nobody policing the
policers, you know, and it'sjust, it's wild just seeing how

(36:27):
dehumanizing these, these spaces, are for so-called criminals,
for individuals who may befirst-time offenders or
individuals who, again, are justseeking a better life here and
with this program we've seenpeople who are on the younger
end, people who are on the olderend, who, again, are just

(36:47):
trying to have a better lifehere.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
And I think it's important to note, as you have
on your website, that thosebonds are for people without a
criminal record.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, so that narrative that somehow you're
you're you're letting criminalsinto society is is not accurate
no, yeah, and I think that,again, that's why it's so
important to educate people onthe realities of what it's like,
you know.
And then, even with that,sometimes we even have groups
who are local uh, schools to sandiego, who have never seen the

(37:20):
border wall, or who are fromnorthern county, that are like,
well, I've never had a reason.
They see it up close andthey're like, oh, this is it.
We do our presentations out inPlaza Las Americas, the outlets
which, honestly, every time Itake out a group, they're like
this is where the fucking borderis you walk out, you turn left,
coming out of the gap?
yeah, exactly, and a lot oftimes they're so shocked because

(37:42):
they assume that it's like howyou see it on the news that the
border was literally out in thedesert, it's in the middle of
nowhere.
But no even how.
We were just talking aboutearlier Friendship Park.
The Tijuana side of FriendshipPark Beautiful, gorgeous.
They always have events therefor the community.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
There's a little outdoor gym right there.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
And then you see it on this side.
You can't even visit it, but itlooks like, it looks gross, it
looks ugly and it stinks, youknow, and there's nowhere for
you to even just like have awalk, have a walkway or anything
, but yet we still want to say,oh, mexico's third world,
mexico's this, mexico's that,tijuana's this, tijuana's that.
Look at us, we're not anybetter.
I honestly just yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
I don't know.
So you've talked to us a littlebit about the water drops.
That's kind of, I think, whatwas the signature initial
practice for Border Angels.
Right, there's the bond program, there's the outreach to day
laborers the home depot lowssituation that you described.

(38:50):
There is also outreach intijuana.
Can you talk to us about that?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
yes, so we do currently provide support to 12
shelters in tijuana.
I always like to say thatthey're not our shelters.
We don't own them.
Them we just support them.
And we provide support withdonations, whether that's for
rent, for utilities or evenphysical donations.
Like you can see here, weactually have a caravan this
Saturday for Dia de las Madres.

(39:16):
So we have a couple of toys andjust even some like little care
packages for the mothers at theshelter that we'll be visiting
this Saturday.
But with this program, it's aprogram that honestly, I think
it's very beautiful because itdoes allow for volunteers to see
the realities that migrants areliving in in Tijuana.

(39:37):
In Tijuana and with theseshelters, I remember when we
visited one of the largestshelters here that we support.
It houses 1,600 migrants.
600 of those migrants arechildren.
It's huge, it's wild justseeing that a lot of these kids,
that's their home, that's allthat they know.
They don't remember theircountries of origin.

(39:59):
They remember these shelters.
And the way that volunteers areable to join with with visiting
those shelters is through ourcaravan of love program and
through that program we do meetout here in front of our office.
Individuals load up theirdonations, whether it's physical
donations that we have in theoffice or donations that they
are able to purchase, and thenwe go caravan down to Tijuana

(40:22):
and visit a shelter With thisprogram.
I think it also provides a goodreality check to a lot of
people as to just thedifficulties not just of going
to Tijuana but even just gettingdonations from San Diego to
there.
So we obviously still pay theaduanas, we pay the fees.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
You gotta pass through the whole.
Declare it all right.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
So that often takes about an hour, depending on how
many donations we have, and thenfrom there we do sometimes
visit shelters that are a littlebit closer to the border, but
then sometimes we do have to goa little bit further, further in
, and thankfully we've neverlost any volunteers out there.
They always make it safe andthey always come back safe.

(41:06):
But with this program, I thinkit's honestly just a great way
to show the reality of what itis.
And I think one thing that Ifind very, very beautiful with
this program is that we've hadgreat volunteers that have
joined us from here in theUnited States and volunteers in
Tijuana who live out there andhave just joined us.
But thankfully, when we wereable to bring it back I believe

(41:29):
it was last or was in 2023 Ibelieve that we actually had a
volunteer.
This this volunteer, his storyhas stayed with me this this
whole time.
He was actually in Tijuana,living there.
He had seen that we werereopening up our programs.
He's like, hey, I want to go, Iwant to support.
He was a barber and he met usat the shelter.

(41:55):
He didn't really tell us, Ionly knew his first name.
That was it.
He didn't provide much of hisstory, but he was over here
going and cutting kids' hairs,cutting the women's hairs, the
men's hairs.
They were so excited, it wassuch a precious moment.
And at the end of the day hetells us that he just has to
leave a little early and we'relike, yeah, that's perfectly
fine, you know.
And that's when he tells usthat he was also living in a

(42:28):
shelter and the reason he had toleave early is because a lot of
these shelters have curfewsjust to do safety of the migrant
safety.
We know that a lot of timesthese shelters are watched by
cartels assuming that everybodythat arrives there has money or
assuming that if they kidnapthem they could get money from
them.
And that's also the main reasonthat we don't share the names
of the shelters we don't want toput them in any danger, uh.
But back to cristian.
Uh, he was the barber.

(42:48):
He was over cutting everybody'shair and then he tells us that
he was from venezuela, and thisall of our caravans always
happen on saturdays.
That following week, uh, heactually had his appointment to
go to a sponsor up here in LasVegas.
So it felt like a full circlemoment.
It was so sweet and just socute to know that he understood.

(43:10):
You know what that experiencewas.
He understood what it was liketo flee your country, arrive in
a shelter and just play thewaiting game of seeing when your
case was going to be next voter, and just play the waiting game
of seeing when your case wasgoing to be next, and you know,
I think he was just a greatreflection of.
He didn't have much, but heidentified with those migrants.
He provided a service, he madethese kids laugh, he gave them

(43:32):
little sweet fades and and hewas one of them, you know, he
was and is still a migrant, youknow, and I think that's just.
It shows that there's still somuch love and humanity with with
this community.
And I think it just shows, too,that it's like it's not the
narrative that you hear in inmedia or you hear on the news

(43:54):
that every individual that comesto the United States is
dangerous, that they're violent.
No, some people literally justhave that dream of arriving here
, and I think something that wealso just have to remember is
that the United States hasplayed a major role in these
countries.
It's so unfair in my eyes tojust constantly say, oh, all

(44:18):
these countries are sendingtheir bad people.
What the fuck were we doing inthese countries?
You know, and I think that alsojust really uh emphasizes you
know, that there obviously is aneed for these people to flee.
You know, and again, they'refleeing from places that aren't
just a walk in the park.
They're not just coming, youknow, crossing the border and
they're arriving here.

(44:39):
A lot of these individuals arecoming from the darien gap.
They're coming and travelingthrough la bestia, the beast,
the train and all of thesedifferent routes that
individuals are taking arefucking dangerous.
You know, they literally areputting their lives at risks and
just because they want to, youknow, believe in the american

(44:59):
dream and uh, with just back tothe day, labor outreach program
with a lot of these laborers,it's it's kind of sad to hear
and to uh just know that theywere lied to.
A lot of times, uh, I do askthe laborers if this is what

(45:21):
they imagined, you know,arriving to the United States,
and it's not.
They did not expect to behomeless, they did not expect to
be living in shelters, they didnot expect to be waiting for
work out in the sun, to be, youknow, discriminated by employees
, by the customers there.
So, again, a lot of times,these individuals are just

(45:45):
looking for a better life.
That's literally it.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
So Border Angels is supported by donations in 501c3,
and we'll link in the shownotes.
We'll link to that.
How has your work and overallthe work of the organization
been able to be sustained andcontinue despite the political

(46:15):
climate?
If it started in the 80s you'retalking about all the way back
to Reagan and Bush one, and thenClinton and all the way up and
we have Obama, sometimes knownas the deporter-in-chief, in
there too.
Climate in San Diego, in astill pretty conservative town

(46:42):
it's become a lot more blue, butin early years definitely a
military town Like.
How has Border Angels been ableto not just survive but thrive
in the midst of that?
That's the first part of myquestion.
The second part is how do youand your team stay focused on
the work and not get pulled intoa lot of like the whole

(47:07):
narrative that surrounds, likebad hombres and that whole thing
?

Speaker 2 (47:12):
um, I think we've been able to thrive, or we've
still been able to, you know,keep our doors open, honestly,
because we're transparent withwhat we do.
Uh, I think, yeah, I think justhaving that openness with
volunteers and with anybody thatworks with us is just, hey,

(47:34):
this is how we do it.
You can see that we're verysmall, we're not a big group at
all, and I think just beinghaving that passion for this
work has also very, um, that hasbeen transmitted to our
supporters.
So, so I think, something thatwas very beautiful even when I
had first started it wasactually in 2023, when Title 42

(48:00):
ended.
So Title 42 was just a policythat Trump had used, where he
used the pandemic as a pretextto, you know, not allow
individuals coming here and, youknow, again, assuming that we
were doing something for thegreater good, that's not what
happened.
And after Title 42 ended, wesaw that there were a lot of

(48:22):
arrivals in the desert, and thatwas the first time that we had
seen an open or detention centerout in the desert, and that was
the first time that, being apart of the organization, we had
to do a call out and I saw theanswer we had this whole office
covered with donations.
My coworker actually had tostart sending donations to her

(48:42):
house because we just didn'thave space in here anymore.
And I think, because we don'tromanticize this, you know, we
show it for what it is and Ithink people have been able to
trust us because of that and byalso having a continuous
presence in the communities.

(49:02):
It's not just here us sittingin our office, but it's actually
going out to these differentspaces and even just schools
here here in in San Diego.
I've been able to go do tablingevents at SDSU.
I've been able to go talk to LaJolla Country Day and again
that's North County and I thinkthat's very important as well,
that we've been able to havethese presentations and these

(49:26):
talks and these spaces allaround San Diego.
I think, especially with theyounger folks that we're seeing
and I'm not going to lie, therewas a time where I thought there
was no future.
I thought that was just it, butbeing able to interact with the
students has really just shownme that, hey, there's still

(49:48):
empathy, there's still love,there's still kindness, there's
still space for people to wantto learn, and even when we do,
or when I do, the presentations,I always go in it, knowing that
I'm here to present theinformation that I have.
It's up to the audience tofollow what I'm saying, you know

(50:09):
.
It's up to them to to want tohave that trust and see our work
for what it is, becausesomething that we always like to
also emphasize is that we'renot advocating for anybody to
enter the country illegally.
We're not pushing for anyindividuals to come here
illegally, but we understandthat migration and immigration
is going to continue to happenno matter what, and I think by

(50:32):
being able to have people joinus and have that trust with us
in the work that we do hasallowed for us to be open even
today.
And with our volunteers, I thinkwith them, it's always just
something that's very beautifulbecause we have volunteers who
come down.
It's always just somethingthat's very beautiful because we
have volunteers who come down.
You know, from San Francisco.

(50:53):
Actually, there was a.
I remember I was shocked when Iheard that she had driven from
San Francisco just to do a waterdrop with us.
Wow, and it was because shewanted to give back to her
parents.
Her parents had crossed, shewanted to pay it back and I
think by even just allowing forspaces of reflection with groups

(51:13):
.
I think it has also allowed forpeople to see us just as people
and not trying to paint us asbeing superior to anybody,
because we're not.
All of the team is literallyhere just to be able to assist
individuals.
We're not here because webelieve that we're angels,
because we're not.
We're just people who care.
That's literally it, and Ithink that's something that,

(51:35):
thankfully, people have beenable to see and have been able
to understand with the work thatwe do and then even just
wanting to just be in thecommunity, you know, and create
community with anybody thatworks with us, and just being
transparent of who we are andwhat we do.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
My understanding is that Border Angels originally
started reaching out to in the80s, I think, reaching out to
agricultural laborers in NorthCounty and anybody I mean.
It's changed a lot but thereare still significant
agricultural labor in the flowerfields and different areas.

(52:19):
So it's interesting that itwasn't just only focused on
international border.
It was just more seems to bebased on the humanity and
humanitarian efforts.
Yes, to be based on thehumanity and humanitarian
efforts.
Yes, yeah, so this is probablya.
This is a personal question,but are you ever afraid for your

(52:39):
safety?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
I am, but it's funny that the people that I get
scared of is Border Patrol.
It's not even so how is that?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
dynamic right so.
I'm assuming, I'm assuming you,you're assuming you're
referring to when you're out inthe desert, yeah, so how does
that dynamic go?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, so we've actually started expanding our
water jobs also to be in theOtay Mountains.
So, we do have them out in thedesert and in the Otay.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Mountains, near where the fires were.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah and yeah.
So that fear I have never feltit from being with the day
laborers even though they're allmen, older men, never felt that
fear with them.
Uh, never felt fear going tothe shelters or anything like
that, and the only time I feellike I have been scared is just

(53:28):
with border patrol.
Uh, one of the first volunteerwater drops back when we
reopened the volunteer program.
This was in December of 2023, Ibelieve, or if not 2022, but
that was the first time we tookfour.
It was only four volunteers.
It was me, my co-worker Osvaldo, who's the volunteer
coordinator, and those fourvolunteers, and that was the

(53:53):
first time that Border Patrolhad stopped us.
I do just also want to say thatwe do have a working
relationship with Border Patrolbut, that working relationship
does go so far.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
They know it's also dependent on whoever the officer
is.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yes, exactly so I think it's really important that
they are aware of who we are,so that hopefully they don't
tamper with anything that weleave behind, whether it's
gallons or has that happened?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Puncture holes in it or whatever right.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yes, we don't know if Border Patrol did it.
We don't want to say if BorderPatrol did it.
Someone, yes, someone with asharp, sharp knife and the most
recent one was actually out inthe otay mountains this year
where they destroyed one of thecrates and they also put america
siempre or america forever.
So clearly, you know, picking aside there, uh, but yeah, so

(54:46):
that that instance that we had aborder patrol out, so he first,
the agent, spoke with staff, us, the two border angels
representatives, and as soon asthey heard our name, the agent
just turned away from us andstarted speaking to the
volunteers.
And I remember that this agent,right away, you know, flicked it

(55:09):
from just trying to changetheir mindset of saying why are
y'all helping these people?
These are bad people, they'renot good, what's the point?
And again, speaking aboutmigrants, you know, and
literally just a person, aperson that's just trying to go
from one country to the othercountry, uh, this agent was just

(55:32):
trying to paint this narrativethat what we're doing is illegal
, which it's not, because, again, we're on public land the whole
time that we do our water drops.
And it's like if you,thankfully, these volunteers,
you know, were aware of thesituation, they understood how
you train them or you give anorientation and they knew as

(55:53):
well that they were safe, thatthey weren't doing anything that
was going to put them in jailor anything.
Um, so again, that agent reallytried to paint this picture of
it being like legal work or itbeing something that were
harming people.
But again, all that we're doing, or all that we did, was place
water gallons and survivalpackages.
Water is a basic human need andyet that was being politicized,

(56:19):
you know, and yeah, so I think.
I think that is always roughwhen and it's frustrating I I
just don't understand.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
I don't understand.
Do you ever have people whovolunteer to help from a
humanitarian standpoint, but whoalso believe that the border
should be strongly enforced?
Do you ever have people likethat?

Speaker 2 (56:46):
We have had an instance like that.
It was before I joined the team, though, so it was a group,
they were Republicans, but theywanted to come and do a water
drop.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
So they did participate in it, the human
side, but they believe instronger border.
Well, this is that piece about,as you say, Operation
Gatekeeper was a Clinton erapolicy and the Obama
administration deported, I thinkprobably still to this date,

(57:20):
the most in any eight yearsinteresting things.
I just interviewed the foundingattorney for the Union Law Group
, which is a law firm, animmigration law firm here in
just down the hill probably nearwhere you grew up, barrio Logan

(57:42):
, and the attorney told me thatthe difference between previous
administrations and this one andhow he and his lawyers have to
approach cases, is that thisadministration is the most
creative in the reasons they'recoming up with.

(58:04):
So this the aliens act, forexample, and others that he's
like I never.
I remember learning about thatin my first year law school
class, like 25 years ago, and Inever thought it was going to be
a thing and but like that,there are many right where
they're like oh, we're going todo this, we're going to try this
, I'm going to go for a thirdterm.
Someone said I could bepresident for life, like, and so

(58:26):
he's having to.
His law firm is having to beeven more creative with their
solutions and I thought, thatwas really an interesting
perspective.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Have you ever had political leaders who come out
in support of your work, or doyou try to stay outside of that,
or do they not want to come outin support of it?
I always thought that was aninteresting thing.
Do you have local politicianslike the mayor of San Diego or
whatever?
Do they ever get involved?

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Not.
Since I've joined the team, Ihaven't seen that there's been
much, but I wouldn't besurprised if it's just because
of the politics.
I wouldn't be surprised if it'sjust because of the politics.
I mean, we've seen it with pastpresidents always using
immigration as a littlepolitical token to gain from
people.
But as of now I haven't.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
And these topics are the immigration issue, Even the
way people vote on it.
It's not a simple thing alongracial lines, right, you can
look at the last presidentialelection.
When I first started in myteaching career in 1994, way

(59:39):
before you were born Prop 187passed in California, and of
course it was challenged in thecourts, but it would have
required schools and hospitalsto ask for immigration status
before providing services.
It was supported by Latinovoters in California.
That's wild, and so thesearen't just clear.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Well, you have a perfect example your dad, big
Reagan fan you know, and hecouldn't even vote, and he
couldn't vote right on top of it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Sorry, reagan, wherever you are right now, you
didn't get a vote because youcouldn't, so it's really
interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
These aren't just simple issues either.
Yeah, it's honestly with that.
It's been so frustrating, evenjust seeing the Latino voters
For Trump.
I know I'm not saying any names, names, I'm like it doesn't
matter.
My dad, who again crossed hisown siblings One of his own
siblings is now a Trumpsupporter.

(01:00:39):
I cannot understand that forsomebody who entered the country
illegally, was able to gettheir paperwork and everything
situated, and now he's a Trumpsupporter.
To me personally, it felt likea slap in the face.
It was just insane.
And even with people who I havegone to high school with, who

(01:01:02):
are Mexican, who their ownparents or who themselves are
first generation, there werealso Trump supporters, and the
only way that I can justify itin my head is just that they
don't want to be the other.
They want somebody else tostill be the other and not them.
Interesting it's.
I don't understand.
Like genuinely, it's rough.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Human nature is.
I think one of thecharacteristics of it is it's
pretty selfish, yep, yep, yep,yep.
And so at the end of thecharacteristics of it is it's
pretty selfish, yeah, yep, yep.
And so, at the end of the day,people really care about one
thing, and it's it's, it's it'sthemselves, yeah, if you, if
you've kind of been able to movepast that zone of feeling at

(01:01:48):
risk then, oftentimes you'reokay there and you're not
looking back to see who's in it,and I think your mom is looking
down on you and very proud ofhow your journey has started out
in this work, because you don'thave to do this, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
You don't need to do this right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
There's probably other work you could do with
bigger offices and less dailystress, and so your story is
very inspirational.
I didn't really see it fromlooking at the website, but it's
really just been humbling tohear your stories and how

(01:02:28):
passionate you are for this work.
Before I get to the lastquestion, I do have an eye on
the time.
Is there anything that I havenot covered, that that you it's
like knocking around your head,that you want to just emphasize
or underline?

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
uh, one thing is to just be expose yourself.
Go if you have never seen theborder wall, or if you're from
the midwest, if you're listeningand you're go to las americas
and go go to go do some shopping.
Yes, please, exactly, just seethe reality for what it is and
don't allow yourself to be soblinded by by the media.

(01:03:06):
That's really it.
Just do some research on yourown, find the information on
your own and just have someempathy, have some sympathy.
I think that really issomething that I have just not
understood how people don't care.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Thank you for that.
My last question is kind of ahypothetical, but imagine you
were designing a billboard.
Imagine you were designing abillboard and of course you are
in charge of outreach andeducation for Border Angels, so
this is probably in line withyour work.
Let's say you get the chance todesign a billboard for the side

(01:03:44):
of the 5 Freeway.
What does that billboard sayabout what you believe in
personally and also thisorganization, what it stands for
?

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
honestly, I feel like this mural right here okay,
describe, describe, describethat for people listening uh, it
was.
It's a mural that's designed bysalvador barajas.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
He's one of the og muralists out in chicano park
and maybe I can, if I can take apicture, so I can include it in
the show notes so that peopleknow.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
And this mural, it just well for one.
It says Amor si se puede, orlove, yes, we can.
And then La Virgen de Guadalupeis actually in the middle
holding a cross that says noOlvidados are not forgotten.
And she's also holding a watergallon and she's out in the
desert that says no olvidados,or not forgotten, and she's also
holding a water gallon andshe's out in the desert.
And then on both sides, uh, wehave a small group on the left

(01:04:36):
with chunky he's actually prettyfamous in chicana park, yeah
and uh, day laborers are outaround him speaking with him,
and actually our new interimexecutive director is is
actually also represented there.
She's speaking with thelaborers as well.
And then on the right hand, inthe bottom right, it's

(01:05:04):
Friendship Park, with a familyin the Tijuana side and the San
Diego side embracing, and rightup top we just have a couple
more gallons of water which saysni una muerte mas, or not
another death.
And I think, personally, thismural, just to me, it shows love
, it shows that empathy, thatkindness and just the reality of
having families separated bythe border.

(01:05:24):
All that they want to do isembrace one another.
But even now we see FriendshipPark.
You can't even put your fingerthrough the holes there anymore.
But even now we see FriendshipPark.
You can't even put your fingerthrough the holes there anymore.
So this, to me, it's just a bigrepresentation of who we are, of
being out in the community, ofnot forgetting those who have
made it here, who have not madeit here alive, but also just

(01:05:45):
being a sense of hope thatthere's still love here, there's
still kindness and there'sstill opportunities for people
who are here.
I think that's honestly for me.
I love this mural is one of myfavorite murals that we have and
I just want to say that.
You know, love does combat.

(01:06:06):
It combat everything, even withour programs.
You know, I think there's alittle bit of love in every
single program that we do combateverything, hopefully, and even
with our programs.
You know, I think there's alittle bit of love in every
single program that we do and inthe way that we do it, and even
with the folks that we don'tsee, that we don't interact with
immediately, when we leavethese water gallons with a note
of just you know saying or youknow, keep going, just being a

(01:06:29):
reminder that there's still loveand that there's still kindness
and that there's stillopportunities.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Thank you so much.
That was, I think, a veryapropos place to end and I
appreciate your time today andyour memories and your personal
story.
I feel humbled to have spokenwith you.
Thank you so much Thanks onceagain for joining us on the
Hangout.
Please be sure to give us afive-star rating wherever you're

(01:06:55):
listening to this show.
Also, in the show notes there'sa link for supporting this show
with a financial contribution.
Your support is very muchappreciated.
I've also placed informationabout Border Angels in the show
notes so that you can do moreresearch on Ana Miguel's work
and that of the organization.

(01:07:16):
Thanks again, thank you.