HERE'S MY FULL CONVERSATION with Alan Arnette on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/WIk67aEg0sI
There’s Been Loss of Life and Intense Drama on Annapurna and in the Mount Everest and 8000 meter peaks region of the Nepal Himalaya.
A veteran climber is dead, another miraculously rescued, and multiple others are lucky to be alive after a tragic few days in the Himalayas.
As the deadliest of the 8000 meter peaks Annapurna has of late become an object of desire for a wider and larger group of the new era of mountaineers, ticking off peaks on their checklist.
In recent years, guides have supplied high levels of support and supplemental oxygen to make the peak more accessible to less experienced climbers. Of the 395 total summits, 129 (33 percent) have occurred in the past three years.
HERE'S AN INTERVIEW with one of the world’s most respected chroniclers of Mount Everest, Alan Arnette WHO is reporting on this spring’s Everest and Himalayan climbing season for OUTSIDE ONLINE
We’ll talk about the miraculous rescue effort on Annapurna where Indian climber Anurag Maloo was found alive after spending three days inside a crevasse on Annapurna. Angela Benavides of Explorers Web has reported that Maloo was 50 meters in the crevasse, found barely alive by a rescue team led by Adam Bielecki - mind boggling….defying all odds…hope to bring more on that soon.
As well as the loss that sent shockwaves through the himalayan climbing community, the ever popular and 10-time Everest summiter, Noel Hanna of Ireland, 56, died in his tent at Camp 4 after summiting without supplemental oxygen.
We also discuss the summit of Manaslu by Felix Berg, as well as the sherpas expanding role in the world of 8000 meter peak guiding. And Alan has written a book.
YOU CAN FIND ALAN’S BLOG at alanarnette.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thom Pollard (00:04):
There's been death and drama on Annapurna this
week, veteran climber is deadanother miraculously rescued,
and multiple others are lucky tobe alive after a tragic few days
in the Himalayas, as thedeadliest of the 8000 meter
peaks and Aparna has of latebecome an object of desire for a
(00:25):
wider and larger group of thenew era of mountaineers ticking
off peaks on their checklist,and in recent years guides have
supplied high levels of supportand supplemental oxygen to make
the peak much more accessible toless experienced climbers.
There's more happening in theHimalayas right now as the
season is in full swing. Today,I have an awesome interview with
(00:49):
one of the world's mostrespected chroniclers of
Everest, Alan Arnette, who'sreporting on this spring's
Everest and Himalayan climbingseason for outside online as
well as on his blog at l&r.
net.com will talk about themiraculous rescue effort on
Annapurna where Indian climberon a rock Mulu was found alive
after spending three days insidea crevasse on Annapurna three
(01:13):
days, Angela benna V days ofexplorers web reported that Mulu
was 50 meters down in thecrevasse found barely alive by a
rescue team led by Adam belucky, a mind boggling rescue
defying all odds also with Alanwill talk about the loss that
sent shockwaves through theHimalayan climbing community,
(01:35):
the ever popular and 10 timeEverest summit are no hana of
Ireland, 56 years old, died inhis tent and camp for on on
Aparna after summiting. Withoutsupplemental oxygen, Alan and I
will also cover the summit onMauna SLU by Felix Berg, the
Sherpas expanding role in theworld of 8000 meter peak guiding
(01:56):
and Alan has also written a bookand we will talk about that. So
here's my conversation with AlanArnette, from his home in
Colorado, Alan, socongratulations, again, outside
has chosen you to be the defacto source for all things
(02:16):
Everest and Himalayan peaks.
What goes along with thatresponsibility. And that great
gift, if you will,
Alan Arnette (02:27):
you know, I think to two words come to mind
authenticity and accuracy, andmaybe integrity along with that.
And these are the same valuesI've applied to my own blog for
you know, for years, that Ithink that people they don't
want to hear spin. They don'twant to hear conjecture. They
(02:49):
want to hear to the best of yourability to tease out whatever's
happening out there in onEverest and the other mountains.
Like right now, just a few daysago, this, this Indian climber
went missing, presumably fellinto a crevasse. And now three
days later, they found him it.
If you believe in miracles, thisis it. This is a miracle. Now,
(03:13):
he is in critical condition nowback in Katmandu, but when I
first reported it, I said thathe was missing. I didn't say
that he was dead. We knew thatno Hannah had died that had been
confirmed, tragically, justdummy does stunningly. But this
individual was still missing.
(03:33):
And I think that's what Alsideis looking for. You know,
they're more of a generalpublication, as we all know, for
outdoor enthusiast, they covereverything from, you know,
mountain biking to, you know,how to date on a mountain, you
know, everything in between, youknow, but I think when it comes
(03:53):
to Everest, you know, it's thisas I've said before, it's the
mountain that we've come to loveto hate.
Thom Pollard (04:00):
Yeah, it is.
Everest has become verypolarizing, and there are a lot
of people who have significantlystrong opinions about the
garbage what to do with thebodies up there, the human waste
and the suppose it but I believethe tide has changed greatly
over the decades is peoplebelieve that the Sherpa are
(04:21):
being completely exploited onMount Everest and in the
Himalayan peaks. And I thinkthat those are some
clarification talks that may bethat might be for another day.
However, all that said, withthree Sherpa having been killed
in the Khumbu ice about a weekago. I you know, I have a small
but growing YouTube channel andthere's a lot of people
(04:46):
commenting saying they'reexploited, they're exploited
those people shouldn't be thereand granted, I do believe their
incredible strength and kindnessand stick intuitiveness, if you
will, is taken for granted bymany people. I feel like the
they've kind of shifted thetide. They're kind of almost
(05:08):
driving the industry saying, No,we're taking over here. This is
our mountain. I'm not sure if Iwent too far with that. But can
you comment on that just alittle bit?
Alan Arnette (05:22):
You know, this is kind of the third rail of
mountaineering is what is therole of the Sherpa community and
supporting? You know, would I goback and reflect on the
evolution of commercialmountaineering on Everest? Let's
say 2010. So 13 years ago, whichis not that long ago. 80% of the
(05:43):
people who summited Everest wereguided by a commercial outfit,
like International Mountainguys, adventure consultants,
Himalayan experienced high MaxRussell Bryce's outfit, Alpine
ascents, and only 20% wereguided by a purely owned Nepali
Company. Today is completely theopposite. 80% of the summit's it
(06:06):
across all the 8000 metermountains, including in
Pakistan, including Ketu. Andnon DEP and the rest are their
clients are guided by Nepaliowned companies like seven
summits treks and AK expeditionsand imagine, Paul. So I think it
is valid to say that theNepalese are now driving high
(06:28):
altitude mountaineering. And Idon't have a problem with that,
you know, you look at everysingle country in the world from
Switzerland, Italy, France,Argentina, and article. I don't
know if you'd call it thecountry, but and the United
States that every single countrymonetizes is natural resources,
(06:50):
including tourism. So that's allthat Nepal is doing. They're
monetizing Mount Everest. Youknow, it's the only mountain
that's that high in the world.
So they've got a corner on themarket, you know, so I think the
Sherpas are driving driving itnow. And they in so when people
say that the Sherpas areexploited? I'm not sure they're
looking at it in the context ofthe evolution. So and I'm not
(07:13):
sure I should even go here, butI'm gonna say this, that first
off, Nobody forces a Sherpa toclimb Mount Everest. Nobody
forces anybody to be a porter,or to be a climbing Sherpa. Or
to be a personal Sherpa. They itis a job they are they do it
voluntarily and they are paidfor it. Are they paid enough
(07:34):
relative to the risk? You canyou can argue that all day long.
And I'm not sure what the rightanswer for that is, you could
argue that a construction orconstruction worker building a
bridge across a river is notpaid enough because they might
fall off and die. Okay, so butthe Sherpas are doing this on
their own their own volition.
Thom Pollard (07:53):
Yeah, thank you for that. That's because I think
it's such an importantconversation and I endeavor to
find somebody representative ofthat community to talk to
someday and we'll expand uponthat, or maybe a forum or
something. But, but given thisbeing the beginning, the early
stages of the Everest in thefree monsoon Himalayan climbing
(08:16):
season, we do have some news. SoAnnapurna sounded like it could
have been an amazing disasternow granted live, at least one
life was lost, and then thethree Sherpa and the baseball.
So without trying to be aharbinger of like, you know,
what might happen in the future.
It was a tough beginning to the1000 meter peak season. And, you
(08:38):
know, what, what might we kindof keep an eye on right now,
Alan Arnette (08:43):
I don't want 2023 to be a repeat of 2019 When 19
people died across multiple 8000meter mountains, the common
denominator in 2019. First off,it was predominantly Indian
nationals who died. There was avast disparity in experience of
(09:04):
the people who died, some werevery experienced, some were not
experienced at all and shouldnot have been there. Again, just
due to like we just talked aboutthe the Nepali companies were
the predominant companies thatwere their logistics operators,
and they have a differentattitude about guiding them,
let's say a guy Kotter withadventure consultants, I've done
(09:28):
many podcasts with a guy and hesays his responsibility is to
take is to get a person backhome alive and safe. It's not to
get them to the summit. Andwhereas the Nepali companies
typically feel like that, andthis this is a generalization
doesn't apply to everybody. Buta lot of them feel like their
job is to get the person to themountain and then give them the
opportunity to decline. Andthat's what a lot of people
(09:50):
want. So as a result, you end uphaving people with various
degrees of experience on themountain, and sometimes it works
out and sometimes it doesn't. SoI'll We tell people to, you
know, it's buyer beat us climberbeware, you have to know what
you're doing and don't assumebecause this company has Sherpas
have summited Everest 10 or 20times that they're gonna save
(10:10):
you if you make a mistake. Thepeople that are on Annapurna
here recently to the dog gotrescued several of them were by
themselves high on the mountainif you're qualified, you know,
like a Reinhold Messner wasthat's fine. If this is your
first 1000 meter Mountain is notokay to be by yourself. So
again, you have to have personalresponsibility. So looking
(10:34):
forward in the season, we've hadthree deaths, which is three to
many on Everest already won onAnnapurna. The people are now
moving over to dollar Giri andMichael Luo Man is Lou, we just
had a summit today with a Germanby himself, Felix, you know, he
summited completely independentbut this guy is incredibly
qualified. So that was notirresponsible, his part at all.
(10:57):
You know, if you want toforecast as they say, if you're
going to forecast you're goingto predict the future do it
often and do it early. So I haveno idea what's going to happen
historically on Everest is 468People lose their life every
season. Statistically, so Idon't think is being a harbinger
of death to suggest that wemight see more fatalities as we
(11:19):
go into the season. Also thisyear has been the weather has
been crazy. Last year. It wasphenomenally Great. This year is
phenomenally snowy, so lots ofavalanches, lots of heavy snow
that's good for keeping therocks rockfall, but it's bad for
potential avalanches and justincreasing the degree of
difficulty in climbing themountain.
Thom Pollard (11:39):
Yeah, so Alan, without going off in too many
tangents and kind of bring itback to the center of what I was
hoping to ask you also earlierwas two part question one, do
you have any idea of how manypermits there will be forever
just and and what the estimateis for that number, because
people are still arriving inBasecamp. And then to China, the
(12:02):
Tibet side of Everest, and thenalso Shishapangma. And any
chole. You if you will on thatside? How is how are we looking
there?
Alan Arnette (12:12):
Yeah. As of I think yesterday, the Ministry of
Tourism Jobs said they haveissued right at 400 permits to
foreigners. And China is leadingthe pack at roughly 90 with the
US the second at around 60 or70, something like that. And
then India is third into the40s. So, you know, I think we'll
(12:33):
see something that could be arecord. The record was 409
permits issued a couple of yearsago. So I think we'll break that
record this year. And it'sprimarily driven by the return
of the Chinese after their COVIDlockdowns and the reemergence of
the Indians after their COVIDissues and also economic issues.
(12:54):
So I think you're gonna seeChina, India and the US being
the top three countries onEverest again, probably we could
we could get really close to 500permits issued. And then you
take the ratio of one to 1.5Sherpas per client. Now you're
talking, you know, let's sayit's 500. That's another 750
(13:16):
Sherpas, you could have over1000 people that are attempting
the mountain this year. So eversince the big mountain, that's
not a problem. If you spread itout over three weeks. You spread
it out over three days is adisaster like we saw in 2019.
That's why that line was there.
It wasn't too many people. Itwas not enough. Not enough
summit days when the winds areunder 30 miles an hour. You know
(13:38):
China did reopen the entirecountry to tourist visas, but
they did it too late for theoperators to run Everest
expeditions this year. So theyare now gearing up to go to Choi
U and Shishapangma. In in theautumn. You know many companies
now we're marketing thatheavily. There are a couple of
(13:58):
people heading over they areright now that are on shish
trying to tag all the 14Kristian Harloff from Norway.
She's over there. There she'strying to get all 14 in a record
time was six months. So youknow, yeah, if you get if you if
you really try hard enough youcan go into Tibet right now, but
it's few and far between.
Thom Pollard (14:21):
Amazing. Yeah, so good. Thank you for the
clarification. That would alsoexplain why so many of the
Chinese are on the Nepal sideendeavoring to climb the
mountain. And yeah, so what
Alan Arnette (14:32):
what one more little nuance on that is that if
you're a Chinese if you're aChinese national, in other
words, a Chinese citizen and youapply to go climb Everest, you
have to have attempted andprobably summited at 8000 meter
mountain before China will giveyou a permit to go climb on the
Tibet side. Nepal has zeroqualifications. It always amuses
(14:53):
me. You know, we just gotfinished with the Boston
Marathon that you got to qualifyto run the Boston Marathon. You
don't have to qualify declineMount Everest in Nepal. So
that's the reason that you see alot of Chinese come over and
climb from the Nepal side.
Thom Pollard (15:06):
It's just so soon we'll have 30,000 people
attempting Mount Everest in oneseason.
Alan Arnette (15:15):
Absolutely. And probably the Kenyan will win.
Yeah, yeah.
Thom Pollard (15:19):
Yeah, good to kind of spread the love around.
Alan Arnette (15:22):
Yeah, I think that it's always it always comes down
to the weather. You know, ifwe've got if finally the snows
relent, you know, everythingkind of calms down on the upper
mountain, and we've got thenormal may 5 to May 25. Whether
window we're about three weeks.
I'm not anticipating any out ofthe ordinary problems this year.
But but, you know, again, younever know, I think we have seen
(15:46):
what I find interesting is I'mfinding the the overall Everest
scene is if I can use this wordmaturing, that we're starting to
see let fewer deaths you know,statistically Everest is at of
the 14 1000 meter mountains isnumber 12. When it comes to the
death rate, so it's relativelylow. And that's because that the
(16:08):
operators are using the sameroute tents in the same place.
Heavy Sherpa support. Manyoperators now are using more
supplemental oxygen starting atlower altitudes. So the formula
is in place just like it is onDenali, or on knocking cogwa
That, you know, there's aformulas a formula climb. So
they've taken all the unknownsout, what they haven't taken out
(16:29):
are the things they can'tcontrol. And obviously, that's
mainly the weather. So if wehave good weather, it should be
a relatively good season,probably with record Summit. If
it continues to be a bad weatheryear, then you know, Katie bar
the door, I don't know what'sgonna happen.
Thom Pollard (16:48):
So when's your next blog post coming out?
You're gonna hit that. I thinkyou just had one two days ago,
or?
Alan Arnette (16:54):
Yeah, I did a couple of days ago talking about
no Hannah and his tragic death.
You know, that also just speaksto the randomness of altitude.
You know, he summited Everest 10times he summoned to K to highly
experienced, highly respected,highly loved person, just just a
ball of joy. But it speaks tothe randomness of altitude that
(17:15):
you can do great one year andthe next year you can you can
die. And no one knows you knowwhat the cause of death was done
on his wife Lynn went toKatmandu she arrived a couple of
days ago and to bring his bodyback to Ireland. I'm sure
they'll they might do anautopsy, I don't know. But they
might have done it in Katmandu,but the cause of death, but I
(17:37):
suspect it will be altituderelated, something like that.
And, you know, so that's anotherthing that goes to the to the
experience, you can be the mostexperienced climber in the
world, and still altitude canget you. And that's the bargain
that we make we go climb thesebig mountains, you know, but
again, you know, it's, it's atrade off, it's the joy that we
get, it's the personal growth isdissatisfaction. And, by all I
(18:00):
talk a lot about, you know, thewhy, why do you go do this? And?
And the answer is irrelevant?
The answer is unique andpersonal to you as to why you go
climb a mountain, you can do itfor fame and glory, you can do
it for personal growth, you cando it just a tick a box, you
(18:21):
know, whatever your answer is,is the right answer for you.
You're not climbing for somebodyelse. Most people, of course,
there are professional climbersare doing it for a job, but 99%
of the people are doing it forthemselves and whatever their
unique and personal reason is,and you know, we all get
something out of it. Otherwiseyou wouldn't put yourself
through such suffering to go anddo it. And also, in a very
(18:44):
serious note, you wouldn't takethe risk, because there is a
real risk of losing your life onthese big mountains is real.
Thom Pollard (18:53):
Allen so you have a manuscript of a book that you
wrote, and you're shopping forsomeone to take the reins, so
the world can read your writing.
Alan Arnette (19:04):
Yeah, this is a an overnight project, which started
10 years ago. As I said, youknow, when my mother died from
Alzheimer's when it died fromAlzheimer's in 2009. After going
through that journey with her, Ithought that I should write a
book. And then when I submittedKay to at age 58, and had a very
difficult experience, I thoughtI should write a book. So here
(19:27):
it is, in 2023. I now have a63 60,000 word manuscript. And
Tom is basically about as anintersection of what I call my
passion and purpose. My passionbeing mountain climbing my
purpose now being an Alzheimer'sadvocate, and it talks about it
starts off with talking about myexperience on K two, and then it
(19:49):
goes back in history and it's amemoir. So it talks about, you
know, I talked about my lifegrowing up in Memphis,
Tennessee, and of all places togo off and climb all these big
mountains. And then I've lightlytouch on some of the adventures
I've had from Patagonia to NewZealand to attempting ever three
times. And finally summiting. Italk a lot about my relationship
(20:11):
with my mom and my dad. And thenI bring it back around to
talking about the experience,okay, too. So it's time we've
interweave the Alzheimer's storywith, with my mountain climbing,
cause they're there. They'recompletely tightly linked in my
life, it really defines my lifeand who I am. So I've got this
(20:31):
done. Now I got the manuscriptis, I think it's I think it's
good. I think it's worthy of apublisher, taking it and
publishing it as a real bookdone, as I shouldn't say as a
real book compared to a selfpublished, but I really would
like to have a, you know, whatare the top five publishers, so
I'm looking for an agent, I'mnow sending out what are called
query letters. To try to find anagent that's interested, we'll
(20:55):
see where it goes, you know,these kind of send these letters
off to the agents and hope thatit will, somebody will like what
you wrote, they only read thefirst sentence as I understand,
so I really try hard to get thatfirst sentence powerful.
Thom Pollard (21:09):
You can find l&r nets blog at Alan arnette.com,
or check outside online for hisEverest, and Himalayan peak
reports. Either place you cankeep up to date on his Everest
reporting. But most importantly,Alan's heart is with Alzheimer's
advocacy in tribute to his mom,Ida. I'll provide links in the
(21:31):
notes to this episode. If you'veenjoyed what you've seen today
on Everest mystery, I hopeyou'll consider hitting that
subscribe button. But even moreimportantly, let us know what
you think in the comments. And Ihope you'll let us know where
you are today. And lastly, ifyou stick around, I'm gonna put
a video up on the screen thatmight be of interest to you.
(21:53):
Stay positive, guard yourthoughts, be generous and kind.
Do a good deed say somethingkind to someone today. We are
all in this together. Iappreciate you being here on
Everest mystery. Thanks verymuch. Have a great day. Peace
out
There's been death and drama on Annapurna this
week, veteran climber is deadanother miraculously rescued,
and multiple others are lucky tobe alive after a tragic few days
in the Himalayas, as thedeadliest of the 8000 meter
peaks and Aparna has of latebecome an object of desire for a
(00:25):
wider and larger group of thenew era of mountaineers ticking
off peaks on their checklist,and in recent years guides have
supplied high levels of supportand supplemental oxygen to make
the peak much more accessible toless experienced climbers.
There's more happening in theHimalayas right now as the
season is in full swing. Today,I have an awesome interview with
(00:49):
one of the world's mostrespected chroniclers of
Everest, Alan Arnette, who'sreporting on this spring's
Everest and Himalayan climbingseason for outside online as
well as on his blog at l&r.
net.com will talk about themiraculous rescue effort on
Annapurna where Indian climberon a rock Mulu was found alive
after spending three days insidea crevasse on Annapurna three
(01:13):
days, Angela benna V days ofexplorers web reported that Mulu
was 50 meters down in thecrevasse found barely alive by a
rescue team led by Adam belucky, a mind boggling rescue
defying all odds also with Alanwill talk about the loss that
sent shockwaves through theHimalayan climbing community,
(01:35):
the ever popular and 10 timeEverest summit are no hana of
Ireland, 56 years old, died inhis tent and camp for on on
Aparna after summiting. Withoutsupplemental oxygen, Alan and I
will also cover the summit onMauna SLU by Felix Berg, the
Sherpas expanding role in theworld of 8000 meter peak guiding
(01:56):
and Alan has also written a bookand we will talk about that. So
here's my conversation with AlanArnette, from his home in
Colorado, Alan, socongratulations, again, outside
has chosen you to be the defacto source for all things
(02:16):
Everest and Himalayan peaks.
What goes along with thatresponsibility. And that great
gift, if you will,
Alan Arnette (02:27):
you know, I think to two words come to mind
authenticity and accuracy, andmaybe integrity along with that.
And these are the same valuesI've applied to my own blog for
you know, for years, that Ithink that people they don't
want to hear spin. They don'twant to hear conjecture. They
(02:49):
want to hear to the best of yourability to tease out whatever's
happening out there in onEverest and the other mountains.
Like right now, just a few daysago, this, this Indian climber
went missing, presumably fellinto a crevasse. And now three
days later, they found him it.
If you believe in miracles, thisis it. This is a miracle. Now,
(03:13):
he is in critical condition nowback in Katmandu, but when I
first reported it, I said thathe was missing. I didn't say
that he was dead. We knew thatno Hannah had died that had been
confirmed, tragically, justdummy does stunningly. But this
individual was still missing.
(03:33):
And I think that's what Alsideis looking for. You know,
they're more of a generalpublication, as we all know, for
outdoor enthusiast, they covereverything from, you know,
mountain biking to, you know,how to date on a mountain, you
know, everything in between, youknow, but I think when it comes
(03:53):
to Everest, you know, it's thisas I've said before, it's the
mountain that we've come to loveto hate.
Thom Pollard (04:00):
Yeah, it is.
Everest has become verypolarizing, and there are a lot
of people who have significantlystrong opinions about the
garbage what to do with thebodies up there, the human waste
and the suppose it but I believethe tide has changed greatly
over the decades is peoplebelieve that the Sherpa are
(04:21):
being completely exploited onMount Everest and in the
Himalayan peaks. And I thinkthat those are some
clarification talks that may bethat might be for another day.
However, all that said, withthree Sherpa having been killed
in the Khumbu ice about a weekago. I you know, I have a small
but growing YouTube channel andthere's a lot of people
(04:46):
commenting saying they'reexploited, they're exploited
those people shouldn't be thereand granted, I do believe their
incredible strength and kindnessand stick intuitiveness, if you
will, is taken for granted bymany people. I feel like the
they've kind of shifted thetide. They're kind of almost
(05:08):
driving the industry saying, No,we're taking over here. This is
our mountain. I'm not sure if Iwent too far with that. But can
you comment on that just alittle bit?
Alan Arnette (05:22):
You know, this is kind of the third rail of
mountaineering is what is therole of the Sherpa community and
supporting? You know, would I goback and reflect on the
evolution of commercialmountaineering on Everest? Let's
say 2010. So 13 years ago, whichis not that long ago. 80% of the
(05:43):
people who summited Everest wereguided by a commercial outfit,
like International Mountainguys, adventure consultants,
Himalayan experienced high MaxRussell Bryce's outfit, Alpine
ascents, and only 20% wereguided by a purely owned Nepali
Company. Today is completely theopposite. 80% of the summit's it
(06:06):
across all the 8000 metermountains, including in
Pakistan, including Ketu. Andnon DEP and the rest are their
clients are guided by Nepaliowned companies like seven
summits treks and AK expeditionsand imagine, Paul. So I think it
is valid to say that theNepalese are now driving high
(06:28):
altitude mountaineering. And Idon't have a problem with that,
you know, you look at everysingle country in the world from
Switzerland, Italy, France,Argentina, and article. I don't
know if you'd call it thecountry, but and the United
States that every single countrymonetizes is natural resources,
(06:50):
including tourism. So that's allthat Nepal is doing. They're
monetizing Mount Everest. Youknow, it's the only mountain
that's that high in the world.
So they've got a corner on themarket, you know, so I think the
Sherpas are driving driving itnow. And they in so when people
say that the Sherpas areexploited? I'm not sure they're
looking at it in the context ofthe evolution. So and I'm not
(07:13):
sure I should even go here, butI'm gonna say this, that first
off, Nobody forces a Sherpa toclimb Mount Everest. Nobody
forces anybody to be a porter,or to be a climbing Sherpa. Or
to be a personal Sherpa. They itis a job they are they do it
voluntarily and they are paidfor it. Are they paid enough
(07:34):
relative to the risk? You canyou can argue that all day long.
And I'm not sure what the rightanswer for that is, you could
argue that a construction orconstruction worker building a
bridge across a river is notpaid enough because they might
fall off and die. Okay, so butthe Sherpas are doing this on
their own their own volition.
Thom Pollard (07:53):
Yeah, thank you for that. That's because I think
it's such an importantconversation and I endeavor to
find somebody representative ofthat community to talk to
someday and we'll expand uponthat, or maybe a forum or
something. But, but given thisbeing the beginning, the early
stages of the Everest in thefree monsoon Himalayan climbing
(08:16):
season, we do have some news. SoAnnapurna sounded like it could
have been an amazing disasternow granted live, at least one
life was lost, and then thethree Sherpa and the baseball.
So without trying to be aharbinger of like, you know,
what might happen in the future.
It was a tough beginning to the1000 meter peak season. And, you
(08:38):
know, what, what might we kindof keep an eye on right now,
Alan Arnette (08:43):
I don't want 2023 to be a repeat of 2019 When 19
people died across multiple 8000meter mountains, the common
denominator in 2019. First off,it was predominantly Indian
nationals who died. There was avast disparity in experience of
(09:04):
the people who died, some werevery experienced, some were not
experienced at all and shouldnot have been there. Again, just
due to like we just talked aboutthe the Nepali companies were
the predominant companies thatwere their logistics operators,
and they have a differentattitude about guiding them,
let's say a guy Kotter withadventure consultants, I've done
(09:28):
many podcasts with a guy and hesays his responsibility is to
take is to get a person backhome alive and safe. It's not to
get them to the summit. Andwhereas the Nepali companies
typically feel like that, andthis this is a generalization
doesn't apply to everybody. Buta lot of them feel like their
job is to get the person to themountain and then give them the
opportunity to decline. Andthat's what a lot of people
(09:50):
want. So as a result, you end uphaving people with various
degrees of experience on themountain, and sometimes it works
out and sometimes it doesn't. SoI'll We tell people to, you
know, it's buyer beat us climberbeware, you have to know what
you're doing and don't assumebecause this company has Sherpas
have summited Everest 10 or 20times that they're gonna save
(10:10):
you if you make a mistake. Thepeople that are on Annapurna
here recently to the dog gotrescued several of them were by
themselves high on the mountainif you're qualified, you know,
like a Reinhold Messner wasthat's fine. If this is your
first 1000 meter Mountain is notokay to be by yourself. So
again, you have to have personalresponsibility. So looking
(10:34):
forward in the season, we've hadthree deaths, which is three to
many on Everest already won onAnnapurna. The people are now
moving over to dollar Giri andMichael Luo Man is Lou, we just
had a summit today with a Germanby himself, Felix, you know, he
summited completely independentbut this guy is incredibly
qualified. So that was notirresponsible, his part at all.
(10:57):
You know, if you want toforecast as they say, if you're
going to forecast you're goingto predict the future do it
often and do it early. So I haveno idea what's going to happen
historically on Everest is 468People lose their life every
season. Statistically, so Idon't think is being a harbinger
of death to suggest that wemight see more fatalities as we
(11:19):
go into the season. Also thisyear has been the weather has
been crazy. Last year. It wasphenomenally Great. This year is
phenomenally snowy, so lots ofavalanches, lots of heavy snow
that's good for keeping therocks rockfall, but it's bad for
potential avalanches and justincreasing the degree of
difficulty in climbing themountain.
Thom Pollard (11:39):
Yeah, so Alan, without going off in too many
tangents and kind of bring itback to the center of what I was
hoping to ask you also earlierwas two part question one, do
you have any idea of how manypermits there will be forever
just and and what the estimateis for that number, because
people are still arriving inBasecamp. And then to China, the
(12:02):
Tibet side of Everest, and thenalso Shishapangma. And any
chole. You if you will on thatside? How is how are we looking
there?
Alan Arnette (12:12):
Yeah. As of I think yesterday, the Ministry of
Tourism Jobs said they haveissued right at 400 permits to
foreigners. And China is leadingthe pack at roughly 90 with the
US the second at around 60 or70, something like that. And
then India is third into the40s. So, you know, I think we'll
(12:33):
see something that could be arecord. The record was 409
permits issued a couple of yearsago. So I think we'll break that
record this year. And it'sprimarily driven by the return
of the Chinese after their COVIDlockdowns and the reemergence of
the Indians after their COVIDissues and also economic issues.
(12:54):
So I think you're gonna seeChina, India and the US being
the top three countries onEverest again, probably we could
we could get really close to 500permits issued. And then you
take the ratio of one to 1.5Sherpas per client. Now you're
talking, you know, let's sayit's 500. That's another 750
(13:16):
Sherpas, you could have over1000 people that are attempting
the mountain this year. So eversince the big mountain, that's
not a problem. If you spread itout over three weeks. You spread
it out over three days is adisaster like we saw in 2019.
That's why that line was there.
It wasn't too many people. Itwas not enough. Not enough
summit days when the winds areunder 30 miles an hour. You know
(13:38):
China did reopen the entirecountry to tourist visas, but
they did it too late for theoperators to run Everest
expeditions this year. So theyare now gearing up to go to Choi
U and Shishapangma. In in theautumn. You know many companies
now we're marketing thatheavily. There are a couple of
(13:58):
people heading over they areright now that are on shish
trying to tag all the 14Kristian Harloff from Norway.
She's over there. There she'strying to get all 14 in a record
time was six months. So youknow, yeah, if you get if you if
you really try hard enough youcan go into Tibet right now, but
it's few and far between.
Thom Pollard (14:21):
Amazing. Yeah, so good. Thank you for the
clarification. That would alsoexplain why so many of the
Chinese are on the Nepal sideendeavoring to climb the
mountain. And yeah, so what
Alan Arnette (14:32):
what one more little nuance on that is that if
you're a Chinese if you're aChinese national, in other
words, a Chinese citizen and youapply to go climb Everest, you
have to have attempted andprobably summited at 8000 meter
mountain before China will giveyou a permit to go climb on the
Tibet side. Nepal has zeroqualifications. It always amuses
(14:53):
me. You know, we just gotfinished with the Boston
Marathon that you got to qualifyto run the Boston Marathon. You
don't have to qualify declineMount Everest in Nepal. So
that's the reason that you see alot of Chinese come over and
climb from the Nepal side.
Thom Pollard (15:06):
It's just so soon we'll have 30,000 people
attempting Mount Everest in oneseason.
Alan Arnette (15:15):
Absolutely. And probably the Kenyan will win.
Yeah, yeah.
Thom Pollard (15:19):
Yeah, good to kind of spread the love around.
Alan Arnette (15:22):
Yeah, I think that it's always it always comes down
to the weather. You know, ifwe've got if finally the snows
relent, you know, everythingkind of calms down on the upper
mountain, and we've got thenormal may 5 to May 25. Whether
window we're about three weeks.
I'm not anticipating any out ofthe ordinary problems this year.
But but, you know, again, younever know, I think we have seen
(15:46):
what I find interesting is I'mfinding the the overall Everest
scene is if I can use this wordmaturing, that we're starting to
see let fewer deaths you know,statistically Everest is at of
the 14 1000 meter mountains isnumber 12. When it comes to the
death rate, so it's relativelylow. And that's because that the
(16:08):
operators are using the sameroute tents in the same place.
Heavy Sherpa support. Manyoperators now are using more
supplemental oxygen starting atlower altitudes. So the formula
is in place just like it is onDenali, or on knocking cogwa
That, you know, there's aformulas a formula climb. So
they've taken all the unknownsout, what they haven't taken out
(16:29):
are the things they can'tcontrol. And obviously, that's
mainly the weather. So if wehave good weather, it should be
a relatively good season,probably with record Summit. If
it continues to be a bad weatheryear, then you know, Katie bar
the door, I don't know what'sgonna happen.
Thom Pollard (16:48):
So when's your next blog post coming out?
You're gonna hit that. I thinkyou just had one two days ago,
or?
Alan Arnette (16:54):
Yeah, I did a couple of days ago talking about
no Hannah and his tragic death.
You know, that also just speaksto the randomness of altitude.
You know, he summited Everest 10times he summoned to K to highly
experienced, highly respected,highly loved person, just just a
ball of joy. But it speaks tothe randomness of altitude that
(17:15):
you can do great one year andthe next year you can you can
die. And no one knows you knowwhat the cause of death was done
on his wife Lynn went toKatmandu she arrived a couple of
days ago and to bring his bodyback to Ireland. I'm sure
they'll they might do anautopsy, I don't know. But they
might have done it in Katmandu,but the cause of death, but I
(17:37):
suspect it will be altituderelated, something like that.
And, you know, so that's anotherthing that goes to the to the
experience, you can be the mostexperienced climber in the
world, and still altitude canget you. And that's the bargain
that we make we go climb thesebig mountains, you know, but
again, you know, it's, it's atrade off, it's the joy that we
get, it's the personal growth isdissatisfaction. And, by all I
(18:00):
talk a lot about, you know, thewhy, why do you go do this? And?
And the answer is irrelevant?
The answer is unique andpersonal to you as to why you go
climb a mountain, you can do itfor fame and glory, you can do
it for personal growth, you cando it just a tick a box, you
(18:21):
know, whatever your answer is,is the right answer for you.
You're not climbing for somebodyelse. Most people, of course,
there are professional climbersare doing it for a job, but 99%
of the people are doing it forthemselves and whatever their
unique and personal reason is,and you know, we all get
something out of it. Otherwiseyou wouldn't put yourself
through such suffering to go anddo it. And also, in a very
(18:44):
serious note, you wouldn't takethe risk, because there is a
real risk of losing your life onthese big mountains is real.
Thom Pollard (18:53):
Allen so you have a manuscript of a book that you
wrote, and you're shopping forsomeone to take the reins, so
the world can read your writing.
Alan Arnette (19:04):
Yeah, this is a an overnight project, which started
10 years ago. As I said, youknow, when my mother died from
Alzheimer's when it died fromAlzheimer's in 2009. After going
through that journey with her, Ithought that I should write a
book. And then when I submittedKay to at age 58, and had a very
difficult experience, I thoughtI should write a book. So here
(19:27):
it is, in 2023. I now have a63 60,000 word manuscript. And
Tom is basically about as anintersection of what I call my
passion and purpose. My passionbeing mountain climbing my
purpose now being an Alzheimer'sadvocate, and it talks about it
starts off with talking about myexperience on K two, and then it
(19:49):
goes back in history and it's amemoir. So it talks about, you
know, I talked about my lifegrowing up in Memphis,
Tennessee, and of all places togo off and climb all these big
mountains. And then I've lightlytouch on some of the adventures
I've had from Patagonia to NewZealand to attempting ever three
times. And finally summiting. Italk a lot about my relationship
(20:11):
with my mom and my dad. And thenI bring it back around to
talking about the experience,okay, too. So it's time we've
interweave the Alzheimer's storywith, with my mountain climbing,
cause they're there. They'recompletely tightly linked in my
life, it really defines my lifeand who I am. So I've got this
(20:31):
done. Now I got the manuscriptis, I think it's I think it's
good. I think it's worthy of apublisher, taking it and
publishing it as a real bookdone, as I shouldn't say as a
real book compared to a selfpublished, but I really would
like to have a, you know, whatare the top five publishers, so
I'm looking for an agent, I'mnow sending out what are called
query letters. To try to find anagent that's interested, we'll
(20:55):
see where it goes, you know,these kind of send these letters
off to the agents and hope thatit will, somebody will like what
you wrote, they only read thefirst sentence as I understand,
so I really try hard to get thatfirst sentence powerful.
Thom Pollard (21:09):
You can find l&r nets blog at Alan arnette.com,
or check outside online for hisEverest, and Himalayan peak
reports. Either place you cankeep up to date on his Everest
reporting. But most importantly,Alan's heart is with Alzheimer's
advocacy in tribute to his mom,Ida. I'll provide links in the
(21:31):
notes to this episode. If you'veenjoyed what you've seen today
on Everest mystery, I hopeyou'll consider hitting that
subscribe button. But even moreimportantly, let us know what
you think in the comments. And Ihope you'll let us know where
you are today. And lastly, ifyou stick around, I'm gonna put
a video up on the screen thatmight be of interest to you.
(21:53):
Stay positive, guard yourthoughts, be generous and kind.
Do a good deed say somethingkind to someone today. We are
all in this together. Iappreciate you being here on
Everest mystery. Thanks verymuch. Have a great day. Peace
out
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