April 19, 2021 • 52 mins
The man with more boots-on-the-ground experience searching in the Death Zone for clues to the Mystery of Mallory & Irvine, Jake Norton, is our guest today.
Jake was 25 when we first met on Mount Everest in 1999. He first climbed Mount Rainier with his dad at age 12. By age 18 he was guiding for Rainier Mountaineering and soon was leading international climbs around the world.
Although we were living in two different worlds in 1999, I with a son and a house, he as a guide with a camera. We were natural friends, seeing eye to eye on topics of the day, spirituality, politics, having been brought together by a reverence for all things Everest.
To date, Jake has been on Eight Everest expeditions, summiting three times….with the rare distinction of having made the top from the north and south.
This interview is a rare look into the greatest mystery in all of adventure, Did Mallory & Irvine make it to the summit of Everest in 1924? Jake himself has been on five search expeditions (four of them officially) for Mallory and Irvine, and personally has experience than any human being alive or otherwise in the search for clues to the mystery of their disappearance.
In 1999 Jake found the first clue during our historic expedition, in which I was the high altitude cameraman: an oxygen bottle from the 1975 Chinese expedition, during which Wang Hung-bao found Mallory's remains. ON THAT SAME DAY, After an hour and 45 minutes, Conrad Anker hopped on the radio, calling a mandatory team meeting. In a 2012 interview with Outside Online, Jake said about the discovery, Conrad “was about 50 meters away from me, frantically waving his ice ax above his head. I walked over and happened by proximity to get there first, and there was Conrad, standing silently above the remains of a fallen hero: exactly as he appears in my photo from the cover of Outside. It was the most humbling experience of my climbing career, and one that will stay with me forever.”
For more on Jake Norton, visit his website at:
https://jakenorton.com/
=========
For more information about Thom Dharma Pollard:
http://eyesopenproductions.com/
For a free downloadable copy of A Course In Happiness:
www.patreon.com/thehappinessquotient
Our theme song, Happiness Jones, appears courtesy of The Wood Brothers.
For more information about The Wood Brothers:
https://www.thewoodbros.com/
The Wood Brothers on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTvWKQovDZlLceuct1EEMMQ
Happiness Jones video can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKIoiVWwF5A
For more about Thom Dharma Pollard, about personal coaching or his inspirational presentations, virtual or in person, find him at:
www.eyesopenproductions.com
To join his mailing list for The Happiness Quotient, email him at thom.dharma.pollard@gmail.com
If you've been enjoying the podcast and find value in the content, we'd be incredibly grateful for your support. Your monthly contribution helps ensuring that we can continue delivering great content for you to enjoy.
Click on the link below:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/268133/support
Thank you!
Thom Dharma Pollard
Here are a few ways you can help support us:
Patreon for access to exclusive content:
https://www.patreon.com/everestmystery
EVEREST MYSTERY Membership for access to perks and exclusive content:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEk3e_XGyNnqwK2ZlxH7fEA/join
Tip Jar for anyone who would like to help support us:
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/EverestMystery
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thom Pollard (00:00):
This is the happiness quotient.
Welcome. Before we get started,consider checking out a course
in happiness. In this shortcolorful guide. This easy to
follow roadmap provides gentlepositive suggestions that for
(00:22):
eons have been taught by theMasters on how to stop chasing
happiness in our path towardunlocking the mysteries to
life's big questions. It offerssome guideposts to contemplate
and put to use in your dailylife. Go to patreon.com slash
the happiness quotient, whereyou'll find a free pdf download
(00:45):
of a course in happiness.
The Wood Brothers (00:47):
All of my wisdom came from all of my
toughest days, I never learned athing bein' happy.
all of my sufferin came ididnt appreciate it I never
learned a thing bein happy butto know how it feels now and
(01:10):
then I got a happiness jones myfriend Happiness Jones
Thom Pollard (01:19):
I'm Thom Pollard.
When I first met today's guest,we were both embarking on our
first ever Mount Everestadventure. The year was 1999. I
was 37 years old hired as a highaltitude camera man for PBS Nova
and the BBC on a co productiondocumentary to try and change
the history of Everest, once andfor all. We were of course
(01:43):
looking for the remains ofGeorge Mallory and Sandy erven,
who had disappeared 75 yearspreviously last seen climbing
for the top at over 28,000 feet,or 8500 meters
The Wood Brothers (01:59):
I got a Happiness Jones
Thom Pollard (02:05):
If we could find that they had in fact made it to
the summit. It would change thehistory books forever
supplanting the first recognizeddissent by Edmund Hillary and
Tenzing Norgay 29 years later,in 1953. Jake Norton, my guest
today was 25. like myself aMassachusetts native, he first
(02:29):
climbed Mount Rainier with hisdad at age 12. And by 18, he was
guiding for Rainiermountaineering and soon was
leading international climbsaround the world. Although we
were living in two differentworlds I with a son and a house
he as a guide with a camera. Wewere natural friends, seeing eye
(02:49):
to eye on topics of the dayspirituality politics, having
been brought together by areverence for all things
Everest. Today, Jake has been ona Everest expeditions summit in
three times with the raredistinction of having made the
top from the north and thesouth. Last I saw him was 2019.
(03:12):
We were both on separateexpeditions on Mount Everest in
Tibet, with the same quest tofind the body of Sandy urban
George Mallory's partner. It wasan odd situation to be in one of
my best friends from themountains on a different team.
And because of our affiliationswith two competing networks, me
with National Geographic andJake with discovery, we had to
(03:35):
keep the specifics of ourefforts secret from each other.
Although between you and me,everyone knew what the gig was
with the other team.
This interview is a rare lookinto the greatest mystery in all
(03:58):
of adventure. Did Mallory andErvin make it to the summit of
Mount Everest in 1924. Jakehimself has been on five search
expeditions for Mallory norvan.
Four of them were officialsearch expeditions. And
personally Jake has more bootson the ground experience than
any human being alive orotherwise in the search for
(04:21):
clues to the mystery of theirdisappearance. In 1999, Jake
found the first clue during ourhistoric expedition, an oxygen
bottle from the 1975 Chineseexpedition, during which Wang
hongbao found Mallory's remains.
(04:42):
On that same day. After about anhour and 45 minutes of
searching. Conrad Anker hoppedon the radio calling a mandatory
team meeting. In 2012 interviewwith outside online, Jake said
about the discovery Conrad quotewas about 15 metres away from me
frantically waving his ice axeabove his head. I walked over
(05:05):
and happened by proximity to getthere first, and there was
Conrad standing silently abovethe remains of a fallen hero,
exactly as he appears in myphoto from the cover of outside.
It was the most humblingexperience of my climbing
career, and one that will staywith me forever on Quora. Here
(05:30):
it is my April 12 2021 interviewwith climber, filmmaker,
photographer, public speaker,United Nations ambassador,
husband and father of two ownerof mountain World Productions.
My friend Jake Norton, from hisoffice in evergreen, Colorado.
(05:51):
We started our conversation withme first bringing up the topic
of the shape of mountains todayand how things have changed
since we first met in 1999. Howare our mountains now? What's
what are the environment ischanging? No. In a 10 or 11
years ago, I did a film withConrad on for PBS on the melting
(06:13):
glaciers of the world and itsays like the get the Gangotri
glacier, which feeds the GangesRiver, of which you did a
documentary that that glacierwill melt in 50 years
completely. And that was 10years ago. And that feeds, in
essence of billion people whoare threatened of having that
(06:35):
map that river become a seasonalRiver. That's shocking.
Jake Norton (06:41):
Yeah, yes. so terrifying. So you know, I mean,
we look around the world, butany of these, especially the
grade ranges, I mean, all rangesbut you know, you think of the
Himalaya, there's so massive andimpenetrable and, you know, seem
eternal, and then you go intothem and young, we see these
glaciers. I mean, you and I,since we've been traveling to
(07:05):
those areas, 20 plus years. Imean, you can see the change
with the naked eye, the wave,the Khumbu glacier, you know,
has receded and pulled back andthings are changing. Yeah. And I
mean, the state of our glaciersof our mountains of these
changing climates is really,really frightening. And I always
(07:27):
talk about how you know, I thinkto a lot of the world mountains
seem like this distant placethat doesn't affect me. I'm, you
know, I live in Illinois, whatdo I What do I care about the
mountains, I live in Arkansas, Ilive in Bandu, gangetic. plains,
the mountains are, but but youknow, here's the old adage, shit
flows downhill. And water doestoo. And everything, you know,
(07:50):
the mountains are the bellwetherof, of our climate, and we're
seeing that change. And it's,yeah, it's terrifying.
Thom Pollard (07:58):
So tell me a little bit about your blog and
your website, you have anewsletter that you send out.
I'm on as a guy who produces apodcast and is challenged to
take the time out of what hoursthere are in a week, and my kids
are out of the house, by theway. So I've got that excuse.
(08:20):
Just to get one episode a weekis a gargantuan effort sometime.
And you're cranking out someblog posts, like on multiple
times a week? I think I've beendoing it a little bit.
Jake Norton (08:32):
Yeah, I'm trying to and that was Yeah, certainly the
intent You know, I've alwaysloved writing and sharing and
and, you know, I think like youas much as the mountains come to
define us, us as individuals,they don't really they're,
they're a part of a much greaterdefinition and one chapter of
our, of our books and so yeah, Iwas like, gosh, I I want to
(08:57):
write about mountains, but Ialso want to write about other
experiences and differentthings. So I, I decided, Okay,
I'm going to take the plunge andstart this blog that I just
called the undefined blog whereI, you know, kind of have free
rein to dive into the thingsthat at least I find interesting
and are pulling on my cerebelluma little bit and, and it's been
(09:19):
a lot of fun, but to your pointabout, you know, finding the
time the last few weeks, I'veI've, you know, a I've been
immersed in this panoramaproject, which I'm hoping to
finish this week, but but alsojust, you know, life life is
gotten in the way and so I'vefallen off off the wagon on her
(09:39):
on the wet, whatever, I'm
Thom Pollard (09:41):
the wagon unhitched
Jake Norton (09:43):
right. Yeah, the wagon left me behind.
So I'm trying to try to getreengaged to keep producing some
more content and get my headback in the game.
Thom Pollard (09:54):
So the inevitable we can't have any conversation
ever without Well, we alreadytalked about Mount Everest one.
So I guess no convert, nomeeting between us would not
lead to at least twoconversations about Mount
Everest, I would venture to saythat you very possibly have more
boots on the ground experiencesearching for Mallory in our
(10:17):
oven or remains of theirexistence up there. And those
expeditions of the 1920s andanybody alive, I'd say maybe
Jamie McGinnis has at least somefirst hand knowledge because
he's been through there so manytimes. I'm not even going to ask
you if you think that's true, inmy opinion, there can be nobody
(10:39):
who knows more about what is upthere in that death zone up in
the yellow band area of Mallorynerve, and this has really been
a thread in your career and yourlife.
Jake Norton (10:51):
Yeah, I mean, it.
Yeah, it has, you know, it allstarted with us together up
there. 22 years ago now, whichis insane. Yeah. But yeah, you
know, it. You know, it wasinteresting discovery wanted to
play it off as this obsession,which perhaps that's the right
word. I don't, I never felt likea but maybe.
Thom Pollard (11:15):
Look. Second, all right. No, you haven't? Yes.
Yeah, it's luckily
Jake Norton (11:22):
I didn't I haven't hit the third word yet the death
part?
Thom Pollard (11:26):
Yeah, we hope that that one comes naturally at the
age of 105. Yeah,
Jake Norton (11:31):
yeah, exactly. But yeah, I mean, I guess, through
some lenses, it certainly couldbe an obsession. I mean, to me,
I, I think like, you know, Icame, I always knew the story of
nallore in erven, going into 99,and was certainly enthralled by
it. But that expedition being upthere finding relics on the
(11:52):
mountain. And you know,Mallory's remains aside, just
finding evidence of them andbeing in their footsteps opened
it up in such a new way. And Ithink also made me realize that
there was so much depth to thoseearly expeditions that I think
is is lacking in a large waytoday. And there's so much we,
(12:14):
as modern climbers can andshould learn from those early
teams, and not that they dideverything perfectly by any
means. They made a lot of screwups and a lot of Miss judgments.
But, but we can still learn somuch, and so much of it is being
lost and, you know, swept awayin the winds of history. And so,
yeah, for me, I just wanted totell more have and continue to
(12:38):
want to tell more of the storyof malar in urban, but also all
of the pre World War Twoexpeditions, because what I
mean, cash, what they did wasjust beyond words. I mean, I
always try, I'm always tellingmy kids like, you know, they've
been to Nepal a couple times,and it's like, imagine, you
know, malar, in erven, you know,and and Norton, and Somerville
(13:00):
and etham. And all those guys,you know, they got on a boat in
February and sailed India,trains across the men walked
five weeks just to get to themountain, they hope to climb. I
mean, it's such a differentworld and through no man's land
that no foreigners had reallyseen before. While
Thom Pollard (13:21):
So, yeah, that's Boy, that's a whole subject
right there, that the idea of,of having an authentic
exploration and expeditionthere's, there's fewer and fewer
of those, these days. And thatthat is a whole new topic. And I
I'm gonna do a quick side noteto Wade Davis, his most recent
(13:43):
book called Magdalena, it'sabout the river in Colombia, and
it's blow your mind. And it'sthat it instead of having these
little expeditions kind of justbe points in to kind of, if you
will charge our, our need forthrill and excitement. It's more
about involving yourself in aculture and a meaning and, and a
(14:06):
history of something. And Iguess in some respects, your
relationship with Everest is somuch more than that. And I I so
you were there in 99. You wentback in Oh, one Weren't you back
there and no four? Was that theNorth side? So there's yes or
Jake Norton (14:25):
Yeah, and there are three as well, on the north
side. But that wasn't a searchexpedition, per se, although I
did a bit of poking around, butI was filming on that one. And
then and then back again to thenorth side and 2019 when we were
there on dueling friendlyexpeditions.
Thom Pollard (14:44):
Yeah. You know, not a lot of people know about
the dueling expeditions. And Iguess you would because you'd
see that discovery has a filmand National Geographic has a
film about our not unitedAttempts to go and discover the
body of Sandy Ervin up there.
And it's interesting becausehere we are to two networks that
(15:05):
are in fierce odds with eachother. And his two expeditions
sharing the mountainoccasionally Crossing Paths of a
lot of very, very good friends.
Like when we got together, itwas like a party like long lost
buddies. And in there was nodoubt that, you know, we were,
(15:29):
we were more concerned about ourfriendship than then one upping
each other. And yeah, and thatwas so amazing. And now I know
in 2019, you, you guys spent alot of time on that one
particular day, I can't rememberwhat day it was when it was
before summit day, the 22nd or21st. And you're in searching,
(15:54):
you covered a lot of ground up.
Jake Norton (15:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that, you know, as you
know, and for the listeners, youknow, we had so much has changed
since you and I were there and99 where we could kind of go and
cowboy and do you know, theChinese government we're not
telling us what we could andcouldn't do. I mean, we were
(16:18):
there before anyone else anddoing our thing and now we're on
you're on a very short leash,they tell you when you can
arrive at base camp and it canchange at the drop of a hat and
when you can go up the mountainand then there's a lot more
people and so both our teams wegot compressed into these really
bad search scenarios and windowsand and so yeah, we kind of we
(16:43):
opted in hindsight I probablywould have changed it I think
you guys made a really good playon on the traffic and everything
but we ended up getting thosefour search days three and a
half out of out of Camp six andbut playing around all the
people that were up therekicking rocks down Try not to
kick rocks on them and and andyeah, it was Yeah, I mean he's
(17:08):
you know, it's wild and hairyterrain and and what we were
really focused on definitelywanted to get out to where you
guys ended up getting to butnever could because of traffic
above us. And then and I wasreally focused on this area
called the wards that are twoclimbers left of the exit cracks
(17:30):
as you get out because it seemedat the time that that's where
two theoretical old sightings ofa body won by a guy named
zhuzhing and 1960 and then bySherpa cheering Georgia in 1995,
where their paths might havecoincided and turned out to to
not not be accurate or if therewas something there it's it's
(17:55):
long gone. But actually y'allCan y'all can hem labs team had
been there when in 2010 or was
Thom Pollard (18:02):
Yeah, and then in 12 also, I think Yeah, Yeah,
Yeah, I
Jake Norton (18:06):
think so. And they they had a bit more snow so we
were hopeful that Oh gosh, maybeon the dry year that we had this
path or in 2019 we'd we'd findsomething but we you know, we
finally got out it was saidPaterson and I and then Ken
Saul's cameraman coming out aswell and you know once we got
(18:27):
through the wards finally and onto that northeast Ridge crest
the thinking and Ben Gosh, maybeurban you know, after the
accident Mallory falls we findhim in 99 irvan survive this was
my thinking at least, you know,maybe he wandered out along the
ridge crest trying to find theroute back down in the dark
scared and that eventually gotout to that area and tried to
(18:51):
wait out the night and didn'tmake it and as soon as sin and
I've poked out into there Ilooked at the train I was like
there's no way you'd mistakethis Ridgecrest for what you
walked out 12 hours beforebecause it's just gnarly up
there. And so we knew prettyquickly that it wasn't worth
searching further along thatridge crest towards the
(19:12):
pinnacles.
Thom Pollard (19:14):
So you on that in 2019 you did find a mitten was
it or was it a socks that youfound some?
Jake Norton (19:23):
No that was on my found in in. In Gosh, what year
was a 2001 found a mitten justkind of slightly to climbers
right of the wards climbers leftof the exit cracks and that
we're pretty sure was probably a24 mitten. So we had to embed
(19:44):
Mallory Irvin's given where itwas. There's, you know, some
misinformation out there thatthat it was just lying there on
the ground. It was actuallyunder a rock. It wasn't, you
know, didn't seem to have beensomething that blew there
either. looked at least somebodyat some point in the intervening
years and put a rock on it. Sothat was an interesting clue.
(20:07):
Then in 2019, Sid and I, we wentout to Long Island, perverse
from the 1933 high camp, quite aways down and hoping to find
something there. And I thought Ifound something but it ended up
being a Tatar from the 1933 campand a little bit of tent fabric
up there.
Thom Pollard (20:28):
Amazing. So, if, if you were having been up there
so many times and really knowingthe lay of the land there, there
are some people who believe thatthat Mallory's chosen route was
not up and over the second step,but kind of skirting around
underneath it up to the maincool war that heads up to the
(20:51):
summit pyramid. Do you thinkthat that would have been
possible and do you believe thatthat do you would like what do
you think but do you think it'spossible to go underneath
Jake Norton (21:02):
it? Yeah, I mean, I I don't I'm so you know, the
history is so hard to decipher.
And I you know, obviously weknow that Norton and Somerville
four days before had had goneunderneath, they took a lower
traverse line. We know that youknow, wagger and when Harris and
shipped in, you know, when thehigh route in in 33. When
(21:23):
Harrison Wagner actually went upto the first step and then
traversed under trying to figureout a way to shortcut the second
stab, and they made it about twoNorton's high point and the cool
war. And, you know, I've alwaysthought and probably perhaps,
erroneously that, that Mallorywas more intent based on
(21:44):
Norton's experience hitting softkind of sketchy snow in the cool
water that he was going to gothe ridge route. But there is
that new information, the notethat Mallory sent the john know
of a cameraman, that indicatesmaybe he was going for the cool
war. But then somehow, they hadto have gotten back to the first
(22:06):
step. Because we found thatoxygen bottle there in 99. And
we found the mitten there, andno one. So there's signs of them
having been up there. And soyeah, it's all just so hard to
decipher and figure out, okay,where did they really go? And
why. And, you know, sadly,there's, I don't know how you
(22:26):
feel about it. But there's apart of me that wonders if you
know, perhaps now we'll neverknow, you know, we may not know,
there, there may not be any moretelling evidence to find, I
still hope that there will bethat something will come out
eventually. But who knows.
Thom Pollard (22:47):
Did you ever I've heard and I'm not sure if you
want to talk about it. But didyou ever go back to the site of
where Mallory's body is or wasand look for him?
Jake Norton (22:58):
No, you know, I never did and yeah, you know,
there's there's been part of methat's always wanted to and all
the trips I've been onsubsequently, just there hasn't
been men time to go down there,I guess cars to or whatever. So
yeah, I haven't. But I know you.
I mean, you were back. What waswhat two weeks give or take it?
(23:19):
round? May 17. Right. 99? Anddid you guys go back and 19?
Thom Pollard (23:27):
down? No, well, that was part of the plan that
Mark and I had that he was goingto unclip and go to the Tom
wholesales slash, if you will,right. Look for Sandy. And then
he was going to zigzag down orif I don't even know if you can
do that there. And I was goingto go down the ropes real quick
(23:48):
and unclip and go straight overto where Mallory was. And
obviously I had that which Idon't whether it was a Tia or
not, I don't know. Obviously, Iturned around and didn't go so I
never had that opportunity. Butum, you know, we had extensive
drone, photographs and video butbut primarily the photographs
(24:10):
which you could blow up giant,just the incredible detail of
these photographs. And I lookedfor I mean days, we literally
spent days going over thesephotographs. And you know, we
found one body who was theJapanese climber who's not that
far off the ropes. Yeah, youwalk by Well, I know you didn't
(24:34):
do the summit on in 2019. Butyeah. And so I never had the
chance to go but I had heardthat somebody went and looked
for him before and wasunsuccessful.
Jake Norton (24:47):
Okay, look for Mallory. Okay.
Thom Pollard (24:49):
Yeah, and I don't know if it was because of a lot
of snow. Now here's. So let'sjust say you know when I went
back with Andy on May 16 in 1999If we you know there was there
was still parts of his clothingthat was still really firmly
frozen into the ground that weloosened up so I could get under
(25:12):
to look in his pockets for thecamera and everything yeah and
then we did what we could tocover him with rocks afterwards
as best we could but there wasstill parts of his foot was
exposed and regrettably and Ialways wonder if maybe if he
wasn't so firmly locked down ifit would have been possible for
(25:32):
an avalanche them to possiblysweep him yeah yeah
Jake Norton (25:38):
yeah I've I've wondered that as well like if
Yeah, cuz we we did we weloosened it we've changed things
and I don't know that he wouldhave without any body heat
residual body he been able tobecome re adhere to the
(25:59):
mountain, as you know, and yeah,Woody have been swept away in,
you know, after after somedisruption. regretable
disruption from from 99. So,yeah, and
Thom Pollard (26:12):
then there's also the, you know, the many reports
that, you know, before theOlympics were in China, how,
supposedly the Chinese, youknow, they did a sweep of the
mountain and tried to remove asmany bodies as they could from
there. Maybe they went andremoved something, you know, and
(26:33):
here we are two years in a rowagain, the mountain is not open
this year in China. So yeah,very interesting. I don't know
it's Will any bit, let's put itthis way. Do you think given all
your experience up there, theover years and different days of
(26:53):
those expeditions, it is thereanything left? To find in that?
Let's just call it the yellowband area? Or should people
start looking elsewhere? Like,did we is that ground covered?
Yeah, I
Jake Norton (27:08):
mean, you know, had you asked me two years ago, I
would have said certainlythere's there's more to be
found. But now we have now Ikind of wonder if there is in
the yellow band. I mean, I Istill think you know, wholesales
area where you guys searched Ithink there's a high probability
(27:29):
urban could have been in thereprobably isn't anymore. So maybe
there's something left behind togive some evidence but I also
wonder because I walked throughmost of that area in oh four we
had a lot of snow but didn'tdidn't see anything. I could
have easily missed somethingwhen you guys were there. But
(27:50):
yeah, a big part of me feelslike a real comprehensive search
in two places above the secondstep looking for not any
definitive clue but evidence ofthem having been there would be
pretty massive. If they got thathigh. I think most of us would
feel like yeah, they probablygot to the top if they were
(28:11):
above the second step, and thenand then the Add doing which
would be crazy cool to see andfilm and be on but doing that
you know that hi traverse underthe second step either either
from the base of the first stepover or taking Norden and some
rebels more diagonal route upand getting into the grade cool
(28:33):
war and seeing a Is there aroute that Mallory and Ervin
could have taken up there thatwould have gotten them through
and be is, you know, is there.
Is there a bottle left behindthere? Is there any sign of them
having been there? Although it'shard to imagine anything would
have stuck around there for thatlong? Because that's some steep
terrain.
Thom Pollard (28:55):
You Yeah, it is.
It's, it's spooky just to lookat and unfortunately, I never
other than with Andy in 2016 or20 G's nice brain. I kinda
wanted to brain.
Jake Norton (29:09):
Yeah, there'sa lot going on in my head.
Thom Pollard (29:13):
meant to say may 16. In 1999 Andy and I kind of
left camp six or the modern daycamp three, and kind of went up
a little bit, and then ziggeddown to see if there was
anything, you know, letlaterally over. And right. I
love Mallory's body and, andit's so funny because I can
(29:34):
remember being there andthinking, wow, if I fell I would
definitely die right now. But itdidn't faze me, but sometimes
I'll think of it now. I'm justlike, get chills like, geez,
yeah. You, you're on 10 of your12 points of crampons on rock
scraping and he and yes, thepoint of your ice axe down it's
(29:59):
it's a Crazy place to be. It'smad. Yeah.
Jake Norton (30:02):
Yeah, it is. And I, you know, I remember, because I
guess we're with the exceptionof Ken Saul's on our team in
2019. He and I were the onlyones who had been there and I
was the only one who had reallysearched up high before and, you
know, suggest telling everyonelike, hey, that, you know, this
is an El Cap. This isn't, youknow, technical climbing, per
(30:25):
se. But when you get off route,you know, you're suddenly on
terrain that you realize themagnitude of it, you know, one
and you realize that you reallywish you had hobnail boots
because crampons or do not workthat well on on a tile roof you
have for all the listeners, youknow, Mather in urban, and the
(30:45):
pre World War Two teams, theyhad man hobnail boots, so they
didn't work and a lot ofterrain, but up on the upper
north face, it was actually theright footwear. And as Tom said,
we're we're walking along withcrampons on, and you're like a
cat with its claws extendedtrying to climb a tiled roof
you're like, yeah. Andeverything there is a steep
(31:08):
enough that if if you slip andget going there's you're not
going to you just can't stop, orvery unlikely you're going to
stop before some major damage isdone.
Thom Pollard (31:21):
Yeah, so just look at the shape of Mallory's body.
And yeah, yeah, not. That wasgruesome.
Jake Norton (31:29):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really was.
Thom Pollard (31:32):
So um, the inevitable do you think, you
know, what is your gut tell youabout? Did they make it? Could
they have? What do you want tobelieve? And what do you really
believe? You know?
Jake Norton (31:48):
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm admittedly a helpless
romantic idealist. And, and soI, on all answer the second
question first, I do believethat, I want to believe that
they submitted. And I always goback to, you know, we have no
proof that they did. Andlikewise, we have no proof that
(32:11):
they did not, you know, it's andin the evidence and in the,
whether or not they could haveI, I don't see anything that
tells me honestly, that theycouldn't have I mean, I, you
know, if, if they did try theridge route, if they climbed
attempted the second stab, youknow, we as modern climbers gets
(32:33):
and this isn't derogatorytowards anyone because I was in
this mindset. For a long time aswell, thinking that well, they
had to have climbed to climb.
The second step, the way we'dclimb it today, they had to try
and free climate but but that'snot necessarily how they looked
at fingers back then. And youlook at the, how the Chinese got
up in 1960. And they, you know,stood on heads and shoulders
(32:57):
took off boots and gloves andthe lead climber is able to
essentially reach kind of enoughholds at the top of the second
step to mantle and struggle hisway up and get up the thing. And
I've got on my blog, a greatphoto of Albert Ellingwood and
Karl Blau rock to Coloradoclimbers doing the same thing
(33:19):
called a quarter shell kind of10 fingers. Blau rock is
standing on Ellen woods. He'sgot one foot on his head and
pushing his head to the side andanother foot on his shoulder and
climbing up a chunk of rockabout the same sizes. The second
step headwall and, you know,that wasn't considered unfair
(33:40):
means necessarily back in the20s. So I look at it as you
know, yeah, they would have beendesperate it would have been
crazy. Everything they probablydid on that day was breaking the
rules but but I still don't seeany reason to say they couldn't
have done it. I don't I don'tsee it being out of their reach.
(34:01):
By any means, or would have beendesperate would have and we know
how it ended but but so yeah,long, long winded answer I I
still do feel that that theycould have and I think they they
probably did and that certainlyinfluenced by my helpless
romantic aspects.
Thom Pollard (34:22):
That's that's that's why I love you, buddy. So
much that that helpless,hopeless romance of, of what is
capable what a human being iscapable of accomplishing when he
or she has put his or her heartand soul into an endeavor. You
know what I mean? As God justgets into the picture here, all
(34:47):
right. It is amazing what peoplecan accomplish and for anyone to
say there's no way in hell theymade it. And I've said I did say
that for years. Mark Senate,even correct me but he said We
can't say we can't prove theydid. But we also can't prove
they didn't. Yeah. I always usedto base it on how far if you
(35:10):
will, east of the second stepMallory was but until version is
found, or his locations about wedon't know how he might have
gotten over there.
Jake Norton (35:20):
Right? Yeah. And I always think to like you look at
I mean, of course, we don't knowdefinitively, but you look at
kind of Mallory's mindset, goinginto 24, you know, you'd been
there in 21, and 22, he's 37,almost 38, which was upper upper
level for Himalayan climbingthose days, he's got three kids,
(35:43):
there's a lot of societal andfamily pressure for him to be
able to provide for them and bethe upstanding, you know,
British citizen that he shouldbe and, and he knows that, you
know, he can either two thingscan happen out of Everest that
he or he can summit the mountainand be the first to do it. And
(36:05):
everything is golden from thereon out, or he can come back home
and nothing down about this,but, you know, continue to life
he was doing being a lecturerand teacher and, and never quite
living up to what I think hefelt he needed to and wanted to
and deserve them. So long storyshort, I think sadly,
(36:29):
tragically, he was willing topush a hell of a lot further and
24, then maybe he would havebeen in 22 or 21. And knowing
that it was now or never to getand I've talked to another
friend who's done a wonderfulscreenplay on the story, Jim
mceachin, about this idea thatthat Mallory's only real way
(36:52):
home was via the summit ofEverest that he didn't, you
know, psychologically, mentallydidn't really have another path
home, you know, then he evensaid that, and I forget who he
wrote it to, but we're gonnastamp to the top this time and
with God with sir sorry, we'regonna sail to the top this time
and with God with us, or willstamp to the top with our teeth
(37:14):
in the wind? You know, he was hewas determined, and sadly,
tragically determined, I think,
Thom Pollard (37:22):
yeah, what, what people will do when ambition and
desire and you know, it, it'sscary. We've swell you've been
to Everest, on many occasions,you submitted three times,
you've seen a lot of a lot ofpeople who didn't make it a lot
of dead people on that mountain.
And it's chilling. It alsoalways the sight of another body
(37:46):
up there always kind of was areminder, I felt so much
reverence for those peoplereminding me like, it's not
worth it. Yeah, it's not worthit.
Jake Norton (38:00):
Yeah. The I mean, you know, it's Yeah, like you
said, it's this chilling thingto see. And yet, I almost find
it a welcoming, tragicallywelcoming thing to, you know, to
be reminded of your ownmortality up there, like, Hey,
you know, whoever that is, was,you know, God, at least this
(38:24):
high was probably as good aclimber as you are, and might
not have really made any majormistake and they're lying here
now. And you could be next andthe mountain pardon my French
really doesn't give a shit ifyou if you're another human
caring out there. So, so watchyour staff and, and don't be
(38:44):
stupid and don't don't get tooobsessed by the summit. Because,
I mean, I guess it's easy to saywhen you and I have been there
before. But you know, at the endof the day, the summit is a
necessary part of the adventure,but it's really a patch of snow
covered in pee and some candywrappers. It's, it's not
Thom Pollard (39:04):
a lot of
Jake Norton (39:06):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A lot of beautiful prayer flags,
but, but it's like, all right, Idon't know that that's worth
dying for losing a finger forwhatever.
Thom Pollard (39:17):
So what is it a clean slate? Looking forward?
You have any other than theRoland zori Mountain expedition
that we're going to do with afilm someday? Sounds good. It
does. It sounds great to me.
What any thing on the horizon?
Are you just kind of putting thevibes out there letting
something up here?
Jake Norton (39:38):
Yeah, yeah, just really trying to you know, let
things materialize and puttingit out there, you know,
definitely doing a lot ofwriting and trying to create new
things. And, but for me, Ithink, you know, I never want to
say I'll never go back toEverest because every time I say
that, I end up back there and Ido love it and I'd go back I
(40:02):
think for more fun storytellingthere's certainly things I'd
love to love to still do therebut but I'm feeling more and
more I think these days andperhaps always have been more
like, I guess not of his caliberbut of mentality Eric shipped
him you know, who peoplecriticize saying, you know, here
(40:22):
is a guy who is a climber butwho is more interested in
exploring than climbing. I wasjust rereading about the 35 trip
when they came in light, fast,small team and he diverted them
in a dream A and Neo no Rimassifs for two weeks on the way
into Everest, because nobody hadbeen married, he wanted to
(40:43):
explore and they might well havemissed their possible window to
summit the mountain by doing sobut but you know, to me that
type of stuff getting into someof these ranges that people
don't bother to go into, becausethere's not not a Blom or an
Everest or an 80,000 are sittingaround that really enthralls me
(41:03):
to just bomb around and checkout cool areas. So those those
are some of the projects I'vegot on my to do list to figure
out alright, how do we get intothat place where nobody's been
into before?
Thom Pollard (41:16):
Absolutely no.
Senate said something funny. Inour when we I interviewed him a
week or so ago, he saidsomething like, he goes all
this, all these projects, allthis stuff is just an excuse to
do cool shit that, you know, youknow, so he writes this book,
The third poll, and I better goto the Royal Geographical
Society and look at Mallory'sbook, instead of taking Norton
(41:38):
or Pollard's word for it, youknow, and yeah, you know, the
watch was, you know, was in likethis glass case. Apparently, the
watch that I had in my pocketfor a while is radioactive.
Really? Yes. It still glows inthe dark.
Jake Norton (41:57):
So that explains a lot color. Gosh,
Thom Pollard (42:01):
well, if I did have another kid, it would it's
wonder now we know why there'stwo heads on that.
Jake Norton (42:10):
Blame it on 99.
Thom Pollard (42:12):
So did any other anything else like any other
cool shit, you want to like? Youknow, I mean, I this it's always
great talking to you. We couldprobably hit tangents of we're
at a pub drinking beers thatwould go till they close the
bar, I would imagine. But yeah,we'll call, you know, on tap
locally, or?
Jake Norton (42:34):
Yeah, I don't you know, for, for me, I think
again, it's just that urge toexplore, like, I drive my family
nuts, because I hate trails andout here, I'm always, you know,
hunting out drainages, I'm like,I want to see where this spring
that I found last week, wheredoes it go? And so I'm always
bushwhacking everywhere and, butyou know, to me that it's just
(42:57):
that that sense of adventurethat I get, I get, you know,
sadly bored on a trail and I'mlike, Alright, I want I want to
see what's over that ridgethere. What I saw, I saw a bit
of rock sticking out and youknow, what, is that a big dome
there that nobody's climbedbefore? Let's go check that out.
And so that that really feeds mysoul all the time. And I think
(43:19):
you know, in the in this crazyCOVID era where probably you're
probably in the same boat, Ihaven't been to an airport to
fly somewhere. And then this issuch a woe is me. first world
problem. But but Mike, I haven'tflown anywhere. I've barely left
my county and over a year nowand, and yet, there's been this
(43:42):
beautiful piece that's come outof it to just say, Hey, you
know, I've been I've got thisworld that I ignore half the
time because I'm looking forwardto the next Himalayan trip or
wherever it is, and, and now Iget to really dive in deep and
explore. And I did speaking ofcameras about six months ago or
(44:02):
so as in one of my drain edges.
It was a warm winter day and sawthis little glint of light on a
hillside. I just found an oldlogging settlement from probably
the early teens or so, about upon this hillside was the glint
of light. So catching somethingcatching the sun so went up and
pulled out this beautiful oldcamera that I think dated back
(44:25):
to about 1918. If I didn'tidentify it was all beat to hell
and but found a guy in Memphis,Tennessee who could develop the
film and sent it off to him andunfortunately a tree grown root
and it destroyed the wholething. And he was bombed as
bummed as I was because I waslike, what are we gonna find?
(44:46):
You know, this
Thom Pollard (44:48):
could be a controlled rally on the summit
of Everest.
Jake Norton (44:53):
I know that was crossing my mind. I was like,
The Wood Brothers (44:57):
he made it.
Jake Norton (44:58):
Oh God, how Am I good to Colorado? I know how did
that happen? Yeah, good stufflike that, you know, I just love
that it's you know, and you knowa it's some adventure and then
be this humbling reminder thathey, you were the first one to
go down here, you know there wassome dude tweed coat 100 years
(45:19):
before you romping around on thesame terrain. And you're, you
know, I think we can all useknocking ourselves off our
pedestals at times to rememberthat, hey, there were a lot of
people here before a student whowere smarter, more skilled,
tougher, and that's I alwaysloved it.
Thom Pollard (45:44):
In addition to his numerous mountaineering
accomplishments, Jake is anambassador for the United
Nations serving on the mountainpartnership, an organization
that helps to ensure thatmountain regions and the people
and the cultures around them arerepresented in specific
languages, as agreements andpolicies are developed around
Sustainable Development Goals.
If you want to receive Jake'sawesome undefined blog, go to
(46:08):
Jake norton.com click on theblog button at the bottom. And
if you want to help Jake withhis inspiring work, you can
support him with a monthly orannual donation and receive a
goodie bag but you can alwaysreceive it for free just visit
you will be inspired.
The Wood Brothers (46:28):
All of my wisdom came from all the
toughest days, I never learnedin happy
Thom Pollard (46:38):
Thank you to the woods brothers and their
management for the use of theirsong happiness Jones for our
theme song here on the HQ and totheir publicist Kevin Calabro
for helping it all happen.
The Wood Brothers (46:50):
How it feels now and then. I got a Happiness
Jones my friend. HappinessJones.
Thom Pollard (47:01):
If you'd like a free downloadable PDF of the
happiness quotients a course inhappiness visit me@patreon.com
slash the happiness quotient.
And for more information aboutme to inquire about personal
coaching or public speaking inperson or virtually, please
visit eyes open productions.comor write me anytime at Tom
(47:21):
Dharma dot pollard@gmail.com.
The Wood Brothers (47:28):
To get happy.
That ol' dragon
Thom Pollard (47:32):
that which we most want to find can be discovered
in the place where we least wantto look and the deeper and the
darker the well the brighter thelight we will discover. Don't
curse the dark cloud. The raininside may very well turn your
garden green. I will see you allreal soon.
The Wood Brothers (47:52):
Happy, happy happy happiness Jones Happy,
happy, happiness Jones, HappyHappy Happy Happiness Jones Im
not sick Im not alone we allgot itHappiness Jones
(49:00):
all of those words I wrote inthe storm that rocked my boat
all of that was stuck in mythroat when I was happy all of
those songs I was singin whilemy boat was sinkin next thing
im thinkin' im happy i mightas well change my name to
(49:27):
Happiness jones myfriend.Happiness Jones
Happy Happiness Jones.
Happy Happy. Happy JonesHappiness Jones Happy, happy,
(50:06):
happy. Happy. Happy Happy Happy
This is the happiness quotient.
Welcome. Before we get started,consider checking out a course
in happiness. In this shortcolorful guide. This easy to
follow roadmap provides gentlepositive suggestions that for
(00:22):
eons have been taught by theMasters on how to stop chasing
happiness in our path towardunlocking the mysteries to
life's big questions. It offerssome guideposts to contemplate
and put to use in your dailylife. Go to patreon.com slash
the happiness quotient, whereyou'll find a free pdf download
(00:45):
of a course in happiness.
The Wood Brothers (00:47):
All of my wisdom came from all of my
toughest days, I never learned athing bein' happy.
all of my sufferin came ididnt appreciate it I never
learned a thing bein happy butto know how it feels now and
(01:10):
then I got a happiness jones myfriend Happiness Jones
Thom Pollard (01:19):
I'm Thom Pollard.
When I first met today's guest,we were both embarking on our
first ever Mount Everestadventure. The year was 1999. I
was 37 years old hired as a highaltitude camera man for PBS Nova
and the BBC on a co productiondocumentary to try and change
the history of Everest, once andfor all. We were of course
(01:43):
looking for the remains ofGeorge Mallory and Sandy erven,
who had disappeared 75 yearspreviously last seen climbing
for the top at over 28,000 feet,or 8500 meters
The Wood Brothers (01:59):
I got a Happiness Jones
Thom Pollard (02:05):
If we could find that they had in fact made it to
the summit. It would change thehistory books forever
supplanting the first recognizeddissent by Edmund Hillary and
Tenzing Norgay 29 years later,in 1953. Jake Norton, my guest
today was 25. like myself aMassachusetts native, he first
(02:29):
climbed Mount Rainier with hisdad at age 12. And by 18, he was
guiding for Rainiermountaineering and soon was
leading international climbsaround the world. Although we
were living in two differentworlds I with a son and a house
he as a guide with a camera. Wewere natural friends, seeing eye
(02:49):
to eye on topics of the dayspirituality politics, having
been brought together by areverence for all things
Everest. Today, Jake has been ona Everest expeditions summit in
three times with the raredistinction of having made the
top from the north and thesouth. Last I saw him was 2019.
(03:12):
We were both on separateexpeditions on Mount Everest in
Tibet, with the same quest tofind the body of Sandy urban
George Mallory's partner. It wasan odd situation to be in one of
my best friends from themountains on a different team.
And because of our affiliationswith two competing networks, me
with National Geographic andJake with discovery, we had to
(03:35):
keep the specifics of ourefforts secret from each other.
Although between you and me,everyone knew what the gig was
with the other team.
This interview is a rare lookinto the greatest mystery in all
(03:58):
of adventure. Did Mallory andErvin make it to the summit of
Mount Everest in 1924. Jakehimself has been on five search
expeditions for Mallory norvan.
Four of them were officialsearch expeditions. And
personally Jake has more bootson the ground experience than
any human being alive orotherwise in the search for
(04:21):
clues to the mystery of theirdisappearance. In 1999, Jake
found the first clue during ourhistoric expedition, an oxygen
bottle from the 1975 Chineseexpedition, during which Wang
hongbao found Mallory's remains.
(04:42):
On that same day. After about anhour and 45 minutes of
searching. Conrad Anker hoppedon the radio calling a mandatory
team meeting. In 2012 interviewwith outside online, Jake said
about the discovery Conrad quotewas about 15 metres away from me
frantically waving his ice axeabove his head. I walked over
(05:05):
and happened by proximity to getthere first, and there was
Conrad standing silently abovethe remains of a fallen hero,
exactly as he appears in myphoto from the cover of outside.
It was the most humblingexperience of my climbing
career, and one that will staywith me forever on Quora. Here
(05:30):
it is my April 12 2021 interviewwith climber, filmmaker,
photographer, public speaker,United Nations ambassador,
husband and father of two ownerof mountain World Productions.
My friend Jake Norton, from hisoffice in evergreen, Colorado.
(05:51):
We started our conversation withme first bringing up the topic
of the shape of mountains todayand how things have changed
since we first met in 1999. Howare our mountains now? What's
what are the environment ischanging? No. In a 10 or 11
years ago, I did a film withConrad on for PBS on the melting
(06:13):
glaciers of the world and itsays like the get the Gangotri
glacier, which feeds the GangesRiver, of which you did a
documentary that that glacierwill melt in 50 years
completely. And that was 10years ago. And that feeds, in
essence of billion people whoare threatened of having that
(06:35):
map that river become a seasonalRiver. That's shocking.
Jake Norton (06:41):
Yeah, yes. so terrifying. So you know, I mean,
we look around the world, butany of these, especially the
grade ranges, I mean, all rangesbut you know, you think of the
Himalaya, there's so massive andimpenetrable and, you know, seem
eternal, and then you go intothem and young, we see these
glaciers. I mean, you and I,since we've been traveling to
(07:05):
those areas, 20 plus years. Imean, you can see the change
with the naked eye, the wave,the Khumbu glacier, you know,
has receded and pulled back andthings are changing. Yeah. And I
mean, the state of our glaciersof our mountains of these
changing climates is really,really frightening. And I always
(07:27):
talk about how you know, I thinkto a lot of the world mountains
seem like this distant placethat doesn't affect me. I'm, you
know, I live in Illinois, whatdo I What do I care about the
mountains, I live in Arkansas, Ilive in Bandu, gangetic. plains,
the mountains are, but but youknow, here's the old adage, shit
flows downhill. And water doestoo. And everything, you know,
(07:50):
the mountains are the bellwetherof, of our climate, and we're
seeing that change. And it's,yeah, it's terrifying.
Thom Pollard (07:58):
So tell me a little bit about your blog and
your website, you have anewsletter that you send out.
I'm on as a guy who produces apodcast and is challenged to
take the time out of what hoursthere are in a week, and my kids
are out of the house, by theway. So I've got that excuse.
(08:20):
Just to get one episode a weekis a gargantuan effort sometime.
And you're cranking out someblog posts, like on multiple
times a week? I think I've beendoing it a little bit.
Jake Norton (08:32):
Yeah, I'm trying to and that was Yeah, certainly the
intent You know, I've alwaysloved writing and sharing and
and, you know, I think like youas much as the mountains come to
define us, us as individuals,they don't really they're,
they're a part of a much greaterdefinition and one chapter of
our, of our books and so yeah, Iwas like, gosh, I I want to
(08:57):
write about mountains, but Ialso want to write about other
experiences and differentthings. So I, I decided, Okay,
I'm going to take the plunge andstart this blog that I just
called the undefined blog whereI, you know, kind of have free
rein to dive into the thingsthat at least I find interesting
and are pulling on my cerebelluma little bit and, and it's been
(09:19):
a lot of fun, but to your pointabout, you know, finding the
time the last few weeks, I'veI've, you know, a I've been
immersed in this panoramaproject, which I'm hoping to
finish this week, but but alsojust, you know, life life is
gotten in the way and so I'vefallen off off the wagon on her
(09:39):
on the wet, whatever, I'm
Thom Pollard (09:41):
the wagon unhitched
Jake Norton (09:43):
right. Yeah, the wagon left me behind.
So I'm trying to try to getreengaged to keep producing some
more content and get my headback in the game.
Thom Pollard (09:54):
So the inevitable we can't have any conversation
ever without Well, we alreadytalked about Mount Everest one.
So I guess no convert, nomeeting between us would not
lead to at least twoconversations about Mount
Everest, I would venture to saythat you very possibly have more
boots on the ground experiencesearching for Mallory in our
(10:17):
oven or remains of theirexistence up there. And those
expeditions of the 1920s andanybody alive, I'd say maybe
Jamie McGinnis has at least somefirst hand knowledge because
he's been through there so manytimes. I'm not even going to ask
you if you think that's true, inmy opinion, there can be nobody
(10:39):
who knows more about what is upthere in that death zone up in
the yellow band area of Mallorynerve, and this has really been
a thread in your career and yourlife.
Jake Norton (10:51):
Yeah, I mean, it.
Yeah, it has, you know, it allstarted with us together up
there. 22 years ago now, whichis insane. Yeah. But yeah, you
know, it. You know, it wasinteresting discovery wanted to
play it off as this obsession,which perhaps that's the right
word. I don't, I never felt likea but maybe.
Thom Pollard (11:15):
Look. Second, all right. No, you haven't? Yes.
Yeah, it's luckily
Jake Norton (11:22):
I didn't I haven't hit the third word yet the death
part?
Thom Pollard (11:26):
Yeah, we hope that that one comes naturally at the
age of 105. Yeah,
Jake Norton (11:31):
yeah, exactly. But yeah, I mean, I guess, through
some lenses, it certainly couldbe an obsession. I mean, to me,
I, I think like, you know, Icame, I always knew the story of
nallore in erven, going into 99,and was certainly enthralled by
it. But that expedition being upthere finding relics on the
(11:52):
mountain. And you know,Mallory's remains aside, just
finding evidence of them andbeing in their footsteps opened
it up in such a new way. And Ithink also made me realize that
there was so much depth to thoseearly expeditions that I think
is is lacking in a large waytoday. And there's so much we,
(12:14):
as modern climbers can andshould learn from those early
teams, and not that they dideverything perfectly by any
means. They made a lot of screwups and a lot of Miss judgments.
But, but we can still learn somuch, and so much of it is being
lost and, you know, swept awayin the winds of history. And so,
yeah, for me, I just wanted totell more have and continue to
(12:38):
want to tell more of the storyof malar in urban, but also all
of the pre World War Twoexpeditions, because what I
mean, cash, what they did wasjust beyond words. I mean, I
always try, I'm always tellingmy kids like, you know, they've
been to Nepal a couple times,and it's like, imagine, you
know, malar, in erven, you know,and and Norton, and Somerville
(13:00):
and etham. And all those guys,you know, they got on a boat in
February and sailed India,trains across the men walked
five weeks just to get to themountain, they hope to climb. I
mean, it's such a differentworld and through no man's land
that no foreigners had reallyseen before. While
Thom Pollard (13:21):
So, yeah, that's Boy, that's a whole subject
right there, that the idea of,of having an authentic
exploration and expeditionthere's, there's fewer and fewer
of those, these days. And thatthat is a whole new topic. And I
I'm gonna do a quick side noteto Wade Davis, his most recent
(13:43):
book called Magdalena, it'sabout the river in Colombia, and
it's blow your mind. And it'sthat it instead of having these
little expeditions kind of justbe points in to kind of, if you
will charge our, our need forthrill and excitement. It's more
about involving yourself in aculture and a meaning and, and a
(14:06):
history of something. And Iguess in some respects, your
relationship with Everest is somuch more than that. And I I so
you were there in 99. You wentback in Oh, one Weren't you back
there and no four? Was that theNorth side? So there's yes or
Jake Norton (14:25):
Yeah, and there are three as well, on the north
side. But that wasn't a searchexpedition, per se, although I
did a bit of poking around, butI was filming on that one. And
then and then back again to thenorth side and 2019 when we were
there on dueling friendlyexpeditions.
Thom Pollard (14:44):
Yeah. You know, not a lot of people know about
the dueling expeditions. And Iguess you would because you'd
see that discovery has a filmand National Geographic has a
film about our not unitedAttempts to go and discover the
body of Sandy Ervin up there.
And it's interesting becausehere we are to two networks that
(15:05):
are in fierce odds with eachother. And his two expeditions
sharing the mountainoccasionally Crossing Paths of a
lot of very, very good friends.
Like when we got together, itwas like a party like long lost
buddies. And in there was nodoubt that, you know, we were,
(15:29):
we were more concerned about ourfriendship than then one upping
each other. And yeah, and thatwas so amazing. And now I know
in 2019, you, you guys spent alot of time on that one
particular day, I can't rememberwhat day it was when it was
before summit day, the 22nd or21st. And you're in searching,
(15:54):
you covered a lot of ground up.
Jake Norton (15:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that, you know, as you
know, and for the listeners, youknow, we had so much has changed
since you and I were there and99 where we could kind of go and
cowboy and do you know, theChinese government we're not
telling us what we could andcouldn't do. I mean, we were
(16:18):
there before anyone else anddoing our thing and now we're on
you're on a very short leash,they tell you when you can
arrive at base camp and it canchange at the drop of a hat and
when you can go up the mountainand then there's a lot more
people and so both our teams wegot compressed into these really
bad search scenarios and windowsand and so yeah, we kind of we
(16:43):
opted in hindsight I probablywould have changed it I think
you guys made a really good playon on the traffic and everything
but we ended up getting thosefour search days three and a
half out of out of Camp six andbut playing around all the
people that were up therekicking rocks down Try not to
kick rocks on them and and andyeah, it was Yeah, I mean he's
(17:08):
you know, it's wild and hairyterrain and and what we were
really focused on definitelywanted to get out to where you
guys ended up getting to butnever could because of traffic
above us. And then and I wasreally focused on this area
called the wards that are twoclimbers left of the exit cracks
(17:30):
as you get out because it seemedat the time that that's where
two theoretical old sightings ofa body won by a guy named
zhuzhing and 1960 and then bySherpa cheering Georgia in 1995,
where their paths might havecoincided and turned out to to
not not be accurate or if therewas something there it's it's
(17:55):
long gone. But actually y'allCan y'all can hem labs team had
been there when in 2010 or was
Thom Pollard (18:02):
Yeah, and then in 12 also, I think Yeah, Yeah,
Yeah, I
Jake Norton (18:06):
think so. And they they had a bit more snow so we
were hopeful that Oh gosh, maybeon the dry year that we had this
path or in 2019 we'd we'd findsomething but we you know, we
finally got out it was saidPaterson and I and then Ken
Saul's cameraman coming out aswell and you know once we got
(18:27):
through the wards finally and onto that northeast Ridge crest
the thinking and Ben Gosh, maybeurban you know, after the
accident Mallory falls we findhim in 99 irvan survive this was
my thinking at least, you know,maybe he wandered out along the
ridge crest trying to find theroute back down in the dark
scared and that eventually gotout to that area and tried to
(18:51):
wait out the night and didn'tmake it and as soon as sin and
I've poked out into there Ilooked at the train I was like
there's no way you'd mistakethis Ridgecrest for what you
walked out 12 hours beforebecause it's just gnarly up
there. And so we knew prettyquickly that it wasn't worth
searching further along thatridge crest towards the
(19:12):
pinnacles.
Thom Pollard (19:14):
So you on that in 2019 you did find a mitten was
it or was it a socks that youfound some?
Jake Norton (19:23):
No that was on my found in in. In Gosh, what year
was a 2001 found a mitten justkind of slightly to climbers
right of the wards climbers leftof the exit cracks and that
we're pretty sure was probably a24 mitten. So we had to embed
(19:44):
Mallory Irvin's given where itwas. There's, you know, some
misinformation out there thatthat it was just lying there on
the ground. It was actuallyunder a rock. It wasn't, you
know, didn't seem to have beensomething that blew there
either. looked at least somebodyat some point in the intervening
years and put a rock on it. Sothat was an interesting clue.
(20:07):
Then in 2019, Sid and I, we wentout to Long Island, perverse
from the 1933 high camp, quite aways down and hoping to find
something there. And I thought Ifound something but it ended up
being a Tatar from the 1933 campand a little bit of tent fabric
up there.
Thom Pollard (20:28):
Amazing. So, if, if you were having been up there
so many times and really knowingthe lay of the land there, there
are some people who believe thatthat Mallory's chosen route was
not up and over the second step,but kind of skirting around
underneath it up to the maincool war that heads up to the
(20:51):
summit pyramid. Do you thinkthat that would have been
possible and do you believe thatthat do you would like what do
you think but do you think it'spossible to go underneath
Jake Norton (21:02):
it? Yeah, I mean, I I don't I'm so you know, the
history is so hard to decipher.
And I you know, obviously weknow that Norton and Somerville
four days before had had goneunderneath, they took a lower
traverse line. We know that youknow, wagger and when Harris and
shipped in, you know, when thehigh route in in 33. When
(21:23):
Harrison Wagner actually went upto the first step and then
traversed under trying to figureout a way to shortcut the second
stab, and they made it about twoNorton's high point and the cool
war. And, you know, I've alwaysthought and probably perhaps,
erroneously that, that Mallorywas more intent based on
(21:44):
Norton's experience hitting softkind of sketchy snow in the cool
water that he was going to gothe ridge route. But there is
that new information, the notethat Mallory sent the john know
of a cameraman, that indicatesmaybe he was going for the cool
war. But then somehow, they hadto have gotten back to the first
(22:06):
step. Because we found thatoxygen bottle there in 99. And
we found the mitten there, andno one. So there's signs of them
having been up there. And soyeah, it's all just so hard to
decipher and figure out, okay,where did they really go? And
why. And, you know, sadly,there's, I don't know how you
(22:26):
feel about it. But there's apart of me that wonders if you
know, perhaps now we'll neverknow, you know, we may not know,
there, there may not be any moretelling evidence to find, I
still hope that there will bethat something will come out
eventually. But who knows.
Thom Pollard (22:47):
Did you ever I've heard and I'm not sure if you
want to talk about it. But didyou ever go back to the site of
where Mallory's body is or wasand look for him?
Jake Norton (22:58):
No, you know, I never did and yeah, you know,
there's there's been part of methat's always wanted to and all
the trips I've been onsubsequently, just there hasn't
been men time to go down there,I guess cars to or whatever. So
yeah, I haven't. But I know you.
I mean, you were back. What waswhat two weeks give or take it?
(23:19):
round? May 17. Right. 99? Anddid you guys go back and 19?
Thom Pollard (23:27):
down? No, well, that was part of the plan that
Mark and I had that he was goingto unclip and go to the Tom
wholesales slash, if you will,right. Look for Sandy. And then
he was going to zigzag down orif I don't even know if you can
do that there. And I was goingto go down the ropes real quick
(23:48):
and unclip and go straight overto where Mallory was. And
obviously I had that which Idon't whether it was a Tia or
not, I don't know. Obviously, Iturned around and didn't go so I
never had that opportunity. Butum, you know, we had extensive
drone, photographs and video butbut primarily the photographs
(24:10):
which you could blow up giant,just the incredible detail of
these photographs. And I lookedfor I mean days, we literally
spent days going over thesephotographs. And you know, we
found one body who was theJapanese climber who's not that
far off the ropes. Yeah, youwalk by Well, I know you didn't
(24:34):
do the summit on in 2019. Butyeah. And so I never had the
chance to go but I had heardthat somebody went and looked
for him before and wasunsuccessful.
Jake Norton (24:47):
Okay, look for Mallory. Okay.
Thom Pollard (24:49):
Yeah, and I don't know if it was because of a lot
of snow. Now here's. So let'sjust say you know when I went
back with Andy on May 16 in 1999If we you know there was there
was still parts of his clothingthat was still really firmly
frozen into the ground that weloosened up so I could get under
(25:12):
to look in his pockets for thecamera and everything yeah and
then we did what we could tocover him with rocks afterwards
as best we could but there wasstill parts of his foot was
exposed and regrettably and Ialways wonder if maybe if he
wasn't so firmly locked down ifit would have been possible for
(25:32):
an avalanche them to possiblysweep him yeah yeah
Jake Norton (25:38):
yeah I've I've wondered that as well like if
Yeah, cuz we we did we weloosened it we've changed things
and I don't know that he wouldhave without any body heat
residual body he been able tobecome re adhere to the
(25:59):
mountain, as you know, and yeah,Woody have been swept away in,
you know, after after somedisruption. regretable
disruption from from 99. So,yeah, and
Thom Pollard (26:12):
then there's also the, you know, the many reports
that, you know, before theOlympics were in China, how,
supposedly the Chinese, youknow, they did a sweep of the
mountain and tried to remove asmany bodies as they could from
there. Maybe they went andremoved something, you know, and
(26:33):
here we are two years in a rowagain, the mountain is not open
this year in China. So yeah,very interesting. I don't know
it's Will any bit, let's put itthis way. Do you think given all
your experience up there, theover years and different days of
(26:53):
those expeditions, it is thereanything left? To find in that?
Let's just call it the yellowband area? Or should people
start looking elsewhere? Like,did we is that ground covered?
Yeah, I
Jake Norton (27:08):
mean, you know, had you asked me two years ago, I
would have said certainlythere's there's more to be
found. But now we have now Ikind of wonder if there is in
the yellow band. I mean, I Istill think you know, wholesales
area where you guys searched Ithink there's a high probability
(27:29):
urban could have been in thereprobably isn't anymore. So maybe
there's something left behind togive some evidence but I also
wonder because I walked throughmost of that area in oh four we
had a lot of snow but didn'tdidn't see anything. I could
have easily missed somethingwhen you guys were there. But
(27:50):
yeah, a big part of me feelslike a real comprehensive search
in two places above the secondstep looking for not any
definitive clue but evidence ofthem having been there would be
pretty massive. If they got thathigh. I think most of us would
feel like yeah, they probablygot to the top if they were
(28:11):
above the second step, and thenand then the Add doing which
would be crazy cool to see andfilm and be on but doing that
you know that hi traverse underthe second step either either
from the base of the first stepover or taking Norden and some
rebels more diagonal route upand getting into the grade cool
(28:33):
war and seeing a Is there aroute that Mallory and Ervin
could have taken up there thatwould have gotten them through
and be is, you know, is there.
Is there a bottle left behindthere? Is there any sign of them
having been there? Although it'shard to imagine anything would
have stuck around there for thatlong? Because that's some steep
terrain.
Thom Pollard (28:55):
You Yeah, it is.
It's, it's spooky just to lookat and unfortunately, I never
other than with Andy in 2016 or20 G's nice brain. I kinda
wanted to brain.
Jake Norton (29:09):
Yeah, there'sa lot going on in my head.
Thom Pollard (29:13):
meant to say may 16. In 1999 Andy and I kind of
left camp six or the modern daycamp three, and kind of went up
a little bit, and then ziggeddown to see if there was
anything, you know, letlaterally over. And right. I
love Mallory's body and, andit's so funny because I can
(29:34):
remember being there andthinking, wow, if I fell I would
definitely die right now. But itdidn't faze me, but sometimes
I'll think of it now. I'm justlike, get chills like, geez,
yeah. You, you're on 10 of your12 points of crampons on rock
scraping and he and yes, thepoint of your ice axe down it's
(29:59):
it's a Crazy place to be. It'smad. Yeah.
Jake Norton (30:02):
Yeah, it is. And I, you know, I remember, because I
guess we're with the exceptionof Ken Saul's on our team in
2019. He and I were the onlyones who had been there and I
was the only one who had reallysearched up high before and, you
know, suggest telling everyonelike, hey, that, you know, this
is an El Cap. This isn't, youknow, technical climbing, per
(30:25):
se. But when you get off route,you know, you're suddenly on
terrain that you realize themagnitude of it, you know, one
and you realize that you reallywish you had hobnail boots
because crampons or do not workthat well on on a tile roof you
have for all the listeners, youknow, Mather in urban, and the
(30:45):
pre World War Two teams, theyhad man hobnail boots, so they
didn't work and a lot ofterrain, but up on the upper
north face, it was actually theright footwear. And as Tom said,
we're we're walking along withcrampons on, and you're like a
cat with its claws extendedtrying to climb a tiled roof
you're like, yeah. Andeverything there is a steep
(31:08):
enough that if if you slip andget going there's you're not
going to you just can't stop, orvery unlikely you're going to
stop before some major damage isdone.
Thom Pollard (31:21):
Yeah, so just look at the shape of Mallory's body.
And yeah, yeah, not. That wasgruesome.
Jake Norton (31:29):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really was.
Thom Pollard (31:32):
So um, the inevitable do you think, you
know, what is your gut tell youabout? Did they make it? Could
they have? What do you want tobelieve? And what do you really
believe? You know?
Jake Norton (31:48):
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm admittedly a helpless
romantic idealist. And, and soI, on all answer the second
question first, I do believethat, I want to believe that
they submitted. And I always goback to, you know, we have no
proof that they did. Andlikewise, we have no proof that
(32:11):
they did not, you know, it's andin the evidence and in the,
whether or not they could haveI, I don't see anything that
tells me honestly, that theycouldn't have I mean, I, you
know, if, if they did try theridge route, if they climbed
attempted the second stab, youknow, we as modern climbers gets
(32:33):
and this isn't derogatorytowards anyone because I was in
this mindset. For a long time aswell, thinking that well, they
had to have climbed to climb.
The second step, the way we'dclimb it today, they had to try
and free climate but but that'snot necessarily how they looked
at fingers back then. And youlook at the, how the Chinese got
up in 1960. And they, you know,stood on heads and shoulders
(32:57):
took off boots and gloves andthe lead climber is able to
essentially reach kind of enoughholds at the top of the second
step to mantle and struggle hisway up and get up the thing. And
I've got on my blog, a greatphoto of Albert Ellingwood and
Karl Blau rock to Coloradoclimbers doing the same thing
(33:19):
called a quarter shell kind of10 fingers. Blau rock is
standing on Ellen woods. He'sgot one foot on his head and
pushing his head to the side andanother foot on his shoulder and
climbing up a chunk of rockabout the same sizes. The second
step headwall and, you know,that wasn't considered unfair
(33:40):
means necessarily back in the20s. So I look at it as you
know, yeah, they would have beendesperate it would have been
crazy. Everything they probablydid on that day was breaking the
rules but but I still don't seeany reason to say they couldn't
have done it. I don't I don'tsee it being out of their reach.
(34:01):
By any means, or would have beendesperate would have and we know
how it ended but but so yeah,long, long winded answer I I
still do feel that that theycould have and I think they they
probably did and that certainlyinfluenced by my helpless
romantic aspects.
Thom Pollard (34:22):
That's that's that's why I love you, buddy. So
much that that helpless,hopeless romance of, of what is
capable what a human being iscapable of accomplishing when he
or she has put his or her heartand soul into an endeavor. You
know what I mean? As God justgets into the picture here, all
(34:47):
right. It is amazing what peoplecan accomplish and for anyone to
say there's no way in hell theymade it. And I've said I did say
that for years. Mark Senate,even correct me but he said We
can't say we can't prove theydid. But we also can't prove
they didn't. Yeah. I always usedto base it on how far if you
(35:10):
will, east of the second stepMallory was but until version is
found, or his locations about wedon't know how he might have
gotten over there.
Jake Norton (35:20):
Right? Yeah. And I always think to like you look at
I mean, of course, we don't knowdefinitively, but you look at
kind of Mallory's mindset, goinginto 24, you know, you'd been
there in 21, and 22, he's 37,almost 38, which was upper upper
level for Himalayan climbingthose days, he's got three kids,
(35:43):
there's a lot of societal andfamily pressure for him to be
able to provide for them and bethe upstanding, you know,
British citizen that he shouldbe and, and he knows that, you
know, he can either two thingscan happen out of Everest that
he or he can summit the mountainand be the first to do it. And
(36:05):
everything is golden from thereon out, or he can come back home
and nothing down about this,but, you know, continue to life
he was doing being a lecturerand teacher and, and never quite
living up to what I think hefelt he needed to and wanted to
and deserve them. So long storyshort, I think sadly,
(36:29):
tragically, he was willing topush a hell of a lot further and
24, then maybe he would havebeen in 22 or 21. And knowing
that it was now or never to getand I've talked to another
friend who's done a wonderfulscreenplay on the story, Jim
mceachin, about this idea thatthat Mallory's only real way
(36:52):
home was via the summit ofEverest that he didn't, you
know, psychologically, mentallydidn't really have another path
home, you know, then he evensaid that, and I forget who he
wrote it to, but we're gonnastamp to the top this time and
with God with sir sorry, we'regonna sail to the top this time
and with God with us, or willstamp to the top with our teeth
(37:14):
in the wind? You know, he was hewas determined, and sadly,
tragically determined, I think,
Thom Pollard (37:22):
yeah, what, what people will do when ambition and
desire and you know, it, it'sscary. We've swell you've been
to Everest, on many occasions,you submitted three times,
you've seen a lot of a lot ofpeople who didn't make it a lot
of dead people on that mountain.
And it's chilling. It alsoalways the sight of another body
(37:46):
up there always kind of was areminder, I felt so much
reverence for those peoplereminding me like, it's not
worth it. Yeah, it's not worthit.
Jake Norton (38:00):
Yeah. The I mean, you know, it's Yeah, like you
said, it's this chilling thingto see. And yet, I almost find
it a welcoming, tragicallywelcoming thing to, you know, to
be reminded of your ownmortality up there, like, Hey,
you know, whoever that is, was,you know, God, at least this
(38:24):
high was probably as good aclimber as you are, and might
not have really made any majormistake and they're lying here
now. And you could be next andthe mountain pardon my French
really doesn't give a shit ifyou if you're another human
caring out there. So, so watchyour staff and, and don't be
(38:44):
stupid and don't don't get tooobsessed by the summit. Because,
I mean, I guess it's easy to saywhen you and I have been there
before. But you know, at the endof the day, the summit is a
necessary part of the adventure,but it's really a patch of snow
covered in pee and some candywrappers. It's, it's not
Thom Pollard (39:04):
a lot of
Jake Norton (39:06):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A lot of beautiful prayer flags,
but, but it's like, all right, Idon't know that that's worth
dying for losing a finger forwhatever.
Thom Pollard (39:17):
So what is it a clean slate? Looking forward?
You have any other than theRoland zori Mountain expedition
that we're going to do with afilm someday? Sounds good. It
does. It sounds great to me.
What any thing on the horizon?
Are you just kind of putting thevibes out there letting
something up here?
Jake Norton (39:38):
Yeah, yeah, just really trying to you know, let
things materialize and puttingit out there, you know,
definitely doing a lot ofwriting and trying to create new
things. And, but for me, Ithink, you know, I never want to
say I'll never go back toEverest because every time I say
that, I end up back there and Ido love it and I'd go back I
(40:02):
think for more fun storytellingthere's certainly things I'd
love to love to still do therebut but I'm feeling more and
more I think these days andperhaps always have been more
like, I guess not of his caliberbut of mentality Eric shipped
him you know, who peoplecriticize saying, you know, here
(40:22):
is a guy who is a climber butwho is more interested in
exploring than climbing. I wasjust rereading about the 35 trip
when they came in light, fast,small team and he diverted them
in a dream A and Neo no Rimassifs for two weeks on the way
into Everest, because nobody hadbeen married, he wanted to
(40:43):
explore and they might well havemissed their possible window to
summit the mountain by doing sobut but you know, to me that
type of stuff getting into someof these ranges that people
don't bother to go into, becausethere's not not a Blom or an
Everest or an 80,000 are sittingaround that really enthralls me
(41:03):
to just bomb around and checkout cool areas. So those those
are some of the projects I'vegot on my to do list to figure
out alright, how do we get intothat place where nobody's been
into before?
Thom Pollard (41:16):
Absolutely no.
Senate said something funny. Inour when we I interviewed him a
week or so ago, he saidsomething like, he goes all
this, all these projects, allthis stuff is just an excuse to
do cool shit that, you know, youknow, so he writes this book,
The third poll, and I better goto the Royal Geographical
Society and look at Mallory'sbook, instead of taking Norton
(41:38):
or Pollard's word for it, youknow, and yeah, you know, the
watch was, you know, was in likethis glass case. Apparently, the
watch that I had in my pocketfor a while is radioactive.
Really? Yes. It still glows inthe dark.
Jake Norton (41:57):
So that explains a lot color. Gosh,
Thom Pollard (42:01):
well, if I did have another kid, it would it's
wonder now we know why there'stwo heads on that.
Jake Norton (42:10):
Blame it on 99.
Thom Pollard (42:12):
So did any other anything else like any other
cool shit, you want to like? Youknow, I mean, I this it's always
great talking to you. We couldprobably hit tangents of we're
at a pub drinking beers thatwould go till they close the
bar, I would imagine. But yeah,we'll call, you know, on tap
locally, or?
Jake Norton (42:34):
Yeah, I don't you know, for, for me, I think
again, it's just that urge toexplore, like, I drive my family
nuts, because I hate trails andout here, I'm always, you know,
hunting out drainages, I'm like,I want to see where this spring
that I found last week, wheredoes it go? And so I'm always
bushwhacking everywhere and, butyou know, to me that it's just
(42:57):
that that sense of adventurethat I get, I get, you know,
sadly bored on a trail and I'mlike, Alright, I want I want to
see what's over that ridgethere. What I saw, I saw a bit
of rock sticking out and youknow, what, is that a big dome
there that nobody's climbedbefore? Let's go check that out.
And so that that really feeds mysoul all the time. And I think
(43:19):
you know, in the in this crazyCOVID era where probably you're
probably in the same boat, Ihaven't been to an airport to
fly somewhere. And then this issuch a woe is me. first world
problem. But but Mike, I haven'tflown anywhere. I've barely left
my county and over a year nowand, and yet, there's been this
(43:42):
beautiful piece that's come outof it to just say, Hey, you
know, I've been I've got thisworld that I ignore half the
time because I'm looking forwardto the next Himalayan trip or
wherever it is, and, and now Iget to really dive in deep and
explore. And I did speaking ofcameras about six months ago or
(44:02):
so as in one of my drain edges.
It was a warm winter day and sawthis little glint of light on a
hillside. I just found an oldlogging settlement from probably
the early teens or so, about upon this hillside was the glint
of light. So catching somethingcatching the sun so went up and
pulled out this beautiful oldcamera that I think dated back
(44:25):
to about 1918. If I didn'tidentify it was all beat to hell
and but found a guy in Memphis,Tennessee who could develop the
film and sent it off to him andunfortunately a tree grown root
and it destroyed the wholething. And he was bombed as
bummed as I was because I waslike, what are we gonna find?
(44:46):
You know, this
Thom Pollard (44:48):
could be a controlled rally on the summit
of Everest.
Jake Norton (44:53):
I know that was crossing my mind. I was like,
The Wood Brothers (44:57):
he made it.
Jake Norton (44:58):
Oh God, how Am I good to Colorado? I know how did
that happen? Yeah, good stufflike that, you know, I just love
that it's you know, and you knowa it's some adventure and then
be this humbling reminder thathey, you were the first one to
go down here, you know there wassome dude tweed coat 100 years
(45:19):
before you romping around on thesame terrain. And you're, you
know, I think we can all useknocking ourselves off our
pedestals at times to rememberthat, hey, there were a lot of
people here before a student whowere smarter, more skilled,
tougher, and that's I alwaysloved it.
Thom Pollard (45:44):
In addition to his numerous mountaineering
accomplishments, Jake is anambassador for the United
Nations serving on the mountainpartnership, an organization
that helps to ensure thatmountain regions and the people
and the cultures around them arerepresented in specific
languages, as agreements andpolicies are developed around
Sustainable Development Goals.
If you want to receive Jake'sawesome undefined blog, go to
(46:08):
Jake norton.com click on theblog button at the bottom. And
if you want to help Jake withhis inspiring work, you can
support him with a monthly orannual donation and receive a
goodie bag but you can alwaysreceive it for free just visit
you will be inspired.
The Wood Brothers (46:28):
All of my wisdom came from all the
toughest days, I never learnedin happy
Thom Pollard (46:38):
Thank you to the woods brothers and their
management for the use of theirsong happiness Jones for our
theme song here on the HQ and totheir publicist Kevin Calabro
for helping it all happen.
The Wood Brothers (46:50):
How it feels now and then. I got a Happiness
Jones my friend. HappinessJones.
Thom Pollard (47:01):
If you'd like a free downloadable PDF of the
happiness quotients a course inhappiness visit me@patreon.com
slash the happiness quotient.
And for more information aboutme to inquire about personal
coaching or public speaking inperson or virtually, please
visit eyes open productions.comor write me anytime at Tom
(47:21):
Dharma dot pollard@gmail.com.
The Wood Brothers (47:28):
To get happy.
That ol' dragon
Thom Pollard (47:32):
that which we most want to find can be discovered
in the place where we least wantto look and the deeper and the
darker the well the brighter thelight we will discover. Don't
curse the dark cloud. The raininside may very well turn your
garden green. I will see you allreal soon.
The Wood Brothers (47:52):
Happy, happy happy happiness Jones Happy,
happy, happiness Jones, HappyHappy Happy Happiness Jones Im
not sick Im not alone we allgot itHappiness Jones
(49:00):
all of those words I wrote inthe storm that rocked my boat
all of that was stuck in mythroat when I was happy all of
those songs I was singin whilemy boat was sinkin next thing
im thinkin' im happy i mightas well change my name to
(49:27):
Happiness jones myfriend.Happiness Jones
Happy Happiness Jones.
Happy Happy. Happy JonesHappiness Jones Happy, happy,
(50:06):
happy. Happy. Happy Happy Happy
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.