Doug Peacock's award winning book is: WAS IT WORTH IT? A WILDERNESS WARRIOR'S LONG TRAIL HOME
Doug Peacock is an American naturalist, author, and filmmaker who is best known for his work in conservation and activism on behalf of grizzly bears in the American West.
Here is my VIDEO version of the interview with Doug:
https://youtu.be/eYltXSGI0LM
MORE about Doug Peacock here:
https://dougpeacock.net/
You need a copy of this book! Find it here:
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwib0r3V1_T9AhW55uMHHbI6BeoYABAAGgJ5bQ&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESbeD2gisjHru--HzCA31EZbLWoOjL2LZNCxv7-JvbcbdvpqS-3BR21xD02Vv6iOCbNlPelaHdP_9dBSpiconV54SaT4JUr-pB1ppmpYRmIOPVsGSOgOOFWTp8rHa03NWVwSegv5bHzOr_XObSlck&sig=AOD64_3wNJ38YXKpxymm7aJok3Bgvg9OVA&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwi897TV1_T9AhUkjIkEHTejBXsQ0Qx6BAgGEAE&nis=8&dct=1
For the audio only version of this episode please use this link:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/268133/12507653
Doug is the founder and chairman of the board of Save the Yellowstone Grizzly. During his service as a Green Beret medic in the Vietnam War. After the war, Doug suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and found solace in the wilderness, much like he did when he was a boy growing up in northern Michigan, exploring swamps and forests and remote places - After the war he devoted himself to observing and documenting grizzly bears in their natural habitat.
Doug was a long time friend of the late Edward Abbey, who wrote THE MONKEY WRENCH GANG, where Peacock’s essence and spirit and passion was immortalized in the character known as George Washington Hayduke.
Sir Doug, is the author of several books, including "Grizzly Years: In Search of the American Wilderness”..... He has also worked as a consultant on several documentaries, including "Grizzly Country" and "In the Path of the Grizzly." Doug says bringing a gun into grizzly country will get you more into trouble than out of it…just look at the cover of his book, need I say more on that. Suffice it to say, grizzly bears saved his life…he has devoted his life to protecting theirs.
Doug is a dog lover, a cat lover, father of two children - his amazing wife and life partner Andrea founded Elk River Books with cousin and friend Marc Beaudin….in Livingston, Montana - where, bye the way, my brother had previously lived, making complete the connection of how Jeff and Doug were pals. …you know, if Jeff had never left Livingston I’d be willing to bet a nickel he’d still be alive….
Doug continues to work desperately towards protecting grizzly bears and their habitat through his writing, speaking engagements, and activism….and…talking to guys like me who read his book….and just had to tell everyone about it
Here’s my inspiring conversation with Doug Peacock about his book WAS IT WORTH IT: A WILDERNESS WARRIOR’S LONG TRAIL HOME published by Patagonia.yes that Patagonia
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Thom Dharma Pollard
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thom Pollard (00:04):
I read a book.
Well, I read a lot of books, butthis one is different. I don't
usually feel compelled to telleverybody about a book that I
read. And so I'm going to tellyou today about the book called
Was it worth it? A wildernesswarriors long trail home by Doug
peacock. Today I have Doug withus on the happiness quotient
(00:25):
podcast, which is also a specialepisode I'm showing on my
Everest mystery YouTube channel.
So why there or why here if youare seeing this on the Everest
mystery? Well, in not such asneaky way, my Everest mystery
channel isn't exactly aboutMount Everest. I use Mount
(00:48):
Everest as a portal to talkabout things like doing the
right thing, following yourpassions, taking care of each
other, and the planet. That'sreally what it's all about. And
that's why I'm bringing thathere to you today. I can bet you
my bottom dollar that thisconversation, and his book may
very well change your day andcould change your perspective on
(01:11):
life. And in this conversation,Doug himself answers the
question. Was it worth it?
Spoiler alert, stay tuned. Dougwas a friend of my brother
Jeff's. And because Doug wassuch a legend in my mind
already. I always thought mybrother was be asking me when he
told me that he used to go flyfishing with Doug in Livingston,
(01:31):
Montana. So now about Doug. Dougpeacock is an American
naturalist and author and afilmmaker who is best known for
his work in conservation andactivism on behalf of grizzly
bears in the American West. Dougis the founder and chairman of
the board of Save theYellowstone grizzly, and I'll
(01:54):
share the link to that and manyother links that might interest
you about Doug and his books. Inthe notes under the video and
this episode. Dogs love forgrizzly bears began during his
service as a Green Beret medicin the Vietnam War. And after
the war, he suffered from PTSDand found solace in the
(02:16):
wilderness much like he did whenhe was a boy growing up in
northern Michigan, exploringswamps and forests and remote
places where there were nopeople. After the war, he
devoted himself to observing anddocumenting grizzly bears in
their natural habitat. Dog was alongtime friend of the late
Edward Abbey who wrote themonkey wrench gang where
(02:40):
peacocks essence and spirit andpassion was immortalized in the
character known as GeorgeWashington. hayduke. Sir Doug,
as I like to call him is theauthor of several books
including grizzly years insearch of the American
wilderness. He's also worked asa consultant on several
(03:01):
documentaries, including grizzlycountry and in the path of the
grizzly dog says that bringing agun into grizzly country will
get you more into trouble thanout of it. Doug's book is
described as a collection ofgripping stories of adventure.
Doug peacock loner, iconoclast,environmentalist, and
(03:24):
contemporary of Edward Abbeyreflects on a life lived in the
wild. Reflecting on the questionmany ask in their twilight
years, was it worth it? Sufficeit to say grizzly bears saved
his life, he has now devoted hisentire life to protecting them.
Doug continues to workdesperately to protect the
(03:47):
grizzly bears and their habitatthrough his writing, speaking
engagements and activism andtalking to guys like me, who
read his book and just had totalk to him. Here's my inspiring
interview with Doug peacockabout his book. Was it worth it?
A wilderness warriors long trailhome, published by Patagonia
(04:08):
from his home in the desert, solet's try this. Doug. Thanks. I
really appreciate it.
Doug Peacock (04:17):
Yeah, no problem.
Thom Pollard (04:19):
Okay, do you remember my brother Jeff at all
from Earth member
Doug Peacock (04:24):
Jeff? I was just thinking about his favorite
fishing hole on the YellowstoneRiver where, you know, he was
near his house, he could walkdown there, there were some
riprap and but, you know,there's a backwater before the
river bifurcates into twochannels and there was a giant
fish in there that started aboutdusk it was start jumping in
(04:48):
some 12 pound frown probably.
Anyways, it was a story oflegend. You know? He,
Thom Pollard (04:58):
he loved those stories and I think sometimes if
if I wasn't there, he would havesaid it was a 14 pound Brown for
sure. Because he loves to. Hewould never let the truth get in
the way of a good story.
Doug Peacock (05:12):
common trait among certain
Thom Pollard (05:15):
is fishermen, especially I think they're
Doug Peacock (05:18):
famed friends.
Thom Pollard (05:20):
It's crazy. I know, this is an immediate off
the off the starting linetangent, but it's really amazing
when you lose a friend, or like,in my case, my brother and not
that I didn't, you know, expectthat maybe he was going through
troubled times and things likethat. But it's such a shocking
(05:42):
reorient in terms of your lifewhen you lose somebody.
Doug Peacock (05:46):
Oh, god damn right. Yeah, it even though even
the ones that don't surpriseyou, it doesn't really matter.
It's loss. And, yeah, love itthrough way.
Thom Pollard (05:59):
I think that's probably why in in your book and
your most recent book that Iwas, so I you know, I if I had
to read it aloud right now, Iwouldn't be able to get through
certain sentences because I'dalso choke up and have tears
coming but but just in, in thegreat reverence you have for
friendships, and the people thatyou cared for and loved, and how
(06:24):
you recognized their passing.
And in so doing it was byhonoring them, like the way you
prepared for it Abby's Memorial.
And I'm, of course, speakinghere to Doug about his longtime
and very close friend, EdwardAbbey, the author, essayist, and
environmental activist whopassed away and entrusted Doug
(06:48):
and a few very close friendswith his burial. Is that is that
did that get taught to you? Oris that just who you are?
Doug Peacock (06:58):
And no, I, I kind of grew into that one, because I
had a lot of death in my life ata fairly early age. And, you
know, one of the last things youcan do is, is, especially when
your friend who is dying, andhas, you know, has requests of
you if you take them veryseriously, including illegal
(07:22):
burials and all kinds of shit.
Thom Pollard (07:27):
Illegal burials are the best, would you? Would
you just tell me ever so brieflyabout the illegal burial? I love
that part of the book.
Doug Peacock (07:37):
Well, you know, I was with him, the last days of
his life, and I was alone withinthe last night of his life. We,
you know, me and Clark's brotherin law, and father and Jack left
lever, were taking turns, youknow, attending to add, you
(07:58):
know, it's sitting with him andI had the last shift from
midnight until the next day. Andat the end of that period, he
left us and the last time Ediesmiled, you know, and I was
there doing what I could, youknow, shooting them up with
morphine and compass in anotherworthless drugs because he had
(08:21):
esophageal varices, which youusually get from cirrhosis of
the liver. He didn't have it. Hehad it, you know, he had a
ganglia from acute pancreatitis,it blocked the portal vein. So
it's the same physicalcondition, just a different
cause. And last time, at mildestwhen I told him the name of the
mountain range, he was going tobe buried you know, that was
Thom Pollard (08:47):
amazing.
Doug Peacock (08:49):
Yeah. And we went out there, you know, we had to
get our shit together in ahurry. But, so, we all loaded up
AED and, you know, dry ice andsleeping bag and body bag and
threw them in the back of apickup and drove a couple miles
(09:12):
through where I am talking rightnow, you know, and several days
walk west of here. You know, wedidn't find a place all that
day. You know, my friend Jackwas adamant about putting him up
on you know, a promontory ofsomeplace in the cap rock of the
mesa was with, you know, Crystaland hard limestone in on a
(09:38):
pickaxe to just bounce off it.
And so I finally found a spotthe next morning and we went
down and and Steven I took turnsdigging, digging the grave, but
everybody wanted to had a chanceto lay down and when I laid down
in it, seven buzzards passedover circled back there. We're
joined by three more. So there's10 buzzard. And of course, all
(10:01):
Ed wanted to come back as aturkey vulture. So I thought it
was the right place, you know.
And, you know, I talked to Clarkcabbie yesterday and she asked
quite been awkward this year andsaid, No, I hadn't. And last
year, you know, I went out therebut I stayed back. I didn't I
(10:24):
didn't want to you know, Iusually go leave something a
bear effigy or something likethat, that, but this last time,
I got it within a couple 100feet where I could, you know,
see the the country and and letmy son go down here. And it's my
son's birthday today. So, yeah,he's up in judo.
Thom Pollard (10:47):
Amazing. Amazing.
Wow, cool. Born on February 2.
That's a pretty cool today.
Yeah, in Legend and lore, Isuppose so. So I loved your
book. And I had heard so manystories about you from my
brother. And I will honestlyadmit, I thought he was, I still
(11:09):
didn't know if he was full ofcrap. If he really had spent
time with you. I'm like, peacockis probably thinking, Who the
hell is this? Thom Pollard guyand who was his brother? But now
I believe my brother. He told mea lot of shit over the years
that I'm sure was, you know,like stories. Yeah, but your
(11:30):
book was, it was exactly what Ineeded. What What it did was it
made me realize that I it theimportance of kind of telling
your story that you leavebehind, you know, I've got two
kids, or we're adults now. 21and 25. And it's like, you know,
they know me. But but if I wereto leave something behind, like
(11:54):
a book, you know,
Doug Peacock (11:56):
ya know, it. That might be the last book I write.
But sure, came out easy. No, Iwrote murdered in record time.
And it was effortless to write.
I don't know. So I think I waswaiting to you know, I've got a
(12:17):
lot of stories in my life that Icould tell, but I am told some
of them and this is these are abunch of of often trips where
some significant happened likefinding sign in the last Mexican
grassy that needs to be in therecord. And, and I hadn't
published that, and it needs tobe out there and sent him in the
(12:43):
tiger trip and a few otherthings is, you know, hadn't had
a book publishing anyway. And soI just crammed it all in. But
the running of it wasremarkable. And I've tried to
read it since and it's it'spretty good shit.
Thom Pollard (13:02):
So when, so you went just with a clarity of
mind, you had something to tell?
And yeah, a lot of it revolvesaround, you know, you get back
from Vietnam. And you're kind ofpurging demons, if you will,
living with, as they say, youknow, PTSD, and you discovered,
you know, this, this kind ofthis intimate connection with
(13:25):
the grizzly bears and countingthem and finding them and
observing them. And that'sturned into become really a
theme of your life like 50 plusyears, as you said, just really
protecting them and hoping toprotect not only the bear but
the wilderness tracks that arevital to their survival and and
(13:46):
protecting them from peopletrophy hunting them as well, I
suppose. But how are we withthat in the world today? Are we
completely screwed? Or have hasthere been any progress as far
as you can see it with the workthat you've done? Well, I
Doug Peacock (14:07):
you know, it's full time work right now. And
I'm still running thisorganization, which I have no
business running, but myexecutive director a couple of
years ago, just flicked up andshort and, um, I did. Patagonia,
you know, and I'm doing a bunchof stuff. I'm making another
movie which you know, I willproduce and you know, I've got a
(14:30):
freeway underpass of i 90.
That's a very serious projectI'm working on and you know, and
I'm suing the goddamn feds. Andactually Patagonia gave me 45
grand yesterday to help withillegal work, you know, that's
the I don't make any money. Igot no money but you know, they
they keep me hobbling along. Inthis book has been good too. You
(14:54):
know, I want all kinds offucking prizes. Yeah, I got I
got enough beer money from theAmerican Academy of Arts and
Letters last for a whole year,you know?
Thom Pollard (15:09):
Oh, yeah. Well, if I show up, it's going to be one
less month of your year, I
Doug Peacock (15:13):
thought, oh my god, well, that's what it's for.
And, you know, and I got anotherprize a couple of days ago from
Patagonia told me my butt tosome, you know, some bullshit. I
mean, it's a testimony,Patagonia did a very good job
producing his book. So they gota proper layout and also won the
(15:34):
National Outdoor Book Awards.
Winner for nonfiction. It didn'tcome with any beer money. So I
was whining, but somebody heldmy bag, your money, fill it up,
someone
Thom Pollard (15:51):
will buy you a beer for that award. So it's
kind of like a card like it hascredit. And I guess
Doug Peacock (15:59):
that's okay. I didn't set out trying to be a
writer, but I've had to usewriting to just record my life
and leave a record behind minutecount counting to. So you know,
there's a half a dozen booksnow. And they, I can't imagine
writing another one. But thelast one went real fast.
Thom Pollard (16:21):
I know, I'm kind of reaching out at a bunch of
different things, but a fewthings that really stood out to
me in it. One, you said.
Solitude, you talked about theimportance in your life,
especially of solitude, and isthe deepest Well, I've
encountered in life. I thinkthat there's a lot of people in
(16:42):
the planet right now, at leastin this crazy society that have
no freaking clue what solitudeis, and how beneficial it could
be for them.
Doug Peacock (16:54):
Yeah. That's in the first few pages of the book.
Yeah, I mean, read this quiz.
You know, and Abby and I sharedgreat long walks across Cabeza
Prieta, which is just, you know,20 miles to my west right now.
And, you know, it was thegreatest currency we we ever
shared, I think. So it finishedone and attempted another, even
(17:18):
after he began to die. So withthree friends, I buried him out
there. Solitude is a deepestWell, I have encountered in this
life. And I found most of iteither down here in the desert,
or from grizzy country,introspection arrives, easily
blowing off the two needlepines, or on the desert breeze.
(17:38):
It's also a human luxury, bestindulged in before your children
before my long, west to eastwalks down here, were often
taken during the holidays. And Ihad to give him up cold turkey,
once my kids were old enough toknow what Christmas was. But,
but what trips, they werelooking across the creosote
(18:04):
bajada towards the nearest waterin a distant mountain range 40
Impossible miles ago, and thenjust walk in there. And you, you
start thinking like that, youknow, walk there doesn't matter
of which three or four days Icould walk to Montana, you know,
if I had enough time from here.
Thom Pollard (18:25):
Amazing, amazing.
Doug, you also said the those inthe so called civilized world.
There are two camps eitherbelieve in human life has more
intrinsic value than the bears,or you do not. And, and I love
that because you talk aboutlike, so if you have a gun and a
bear is charging you where doyou actually shoot? Like, what's
(18:47):
that line of demarcation? And Ithink it's fitting that the
cover of the book is you withthe spear so we know how close
the bear needs to be before youroll your weapon. But could you
talk about that? You know,you're you're so passionate
about the survival of thesebeasts that I guess not not in a
(19:08):
crazy man's way, but you'reprobably be willing to be
devoured by one if it might helptheir species. Yeah, I think
that was page 171 on your bookthat I read.
Doug Peacock (19:23):
Anyway, here. You know, there's there's Tompkins
and Rick Ridgeway and BartonLewis, an old friend of mine,
were on a beluga whaleexpedition where everybody was
scared of polar bears. I was atpolar bear guy. And, you know,
so we went we flipped to summer.
We flipped resolute which isjust a little nothing there. And
(19:47):
the weather was lousy. So we hada few days before we could find
a bush plane to fly us out touninhabited island summers and
islands. And you know, sofinally we get up there Finally
we land next to the fjord onSomerset Island, the scientists
assembles his tent and campinggear, while the rest of us
unload to Beaver bush plane, theplane departs and I put together
(20:09):
my Polar Bear spear, soaking thesnow in water, inserting the
iron spear head into the slot,and then lash in tight with what
Rawhide they should dry andshrink. Last touch is a screw
has sharp metal point into theend opposite to spear point
where it can anchor on thefrozen groan or ice like a pike.
(20:31):
You know, the governmentdisagreed with my plan. Of
course, it's like you have tocarry a gun up there and I
wasn't gonna do it. And theyassign the Inuit 100 campiness
was a gun. Once the InuitsHunter checks up my spear, he
decides I'm serious and webecome friends. As the midnight
sun headed in the West, heshares of beldam Canadian
(20:53):
whiskey from a flask would meanI hadn't tried out the spirit of
a bear yet, but anyone had once.
When this guy was 13, a polarbear wandered into his village
and the boy and his cousinsunchained the dogs and when
after a while, a dog circled andnipped at the big bear the boys
thrust with their spirits, myInuit pelts finally through His
(21:16):
Spirit was given credit for thekill the Inuit Ponte polar bear
fur, fur and food, one of thefew remaining traditional
peoples who intentionally andregularly seek out big
predators. You wouldn't want totry to without some really good
dog. And, you know,incidentally, might I have two
Collie dogs here, you know, theolder one passed. He's a grizzly
(21:39):
bear dog, I trained him. I wentand collected the grizzly bear
shit from the valley that Jeffand I lived in. And and when he
was a puppy just got himcomfortable around the smell of
it. We ran into a mother Grizzand her yearling cub neared the
side of Glacier Park. And he wasperfect. He sat He wiggled his
(22:02):
nose, but otherwise didn't makea move, didn't bark. And he's
got a younger brother here,that's a couple years younger,
it's a predator would havegotten if killed.
Thom Pollard (22:15):
Dogs so to me, toward at the end of the book,
you went back to Michigan, Ibelieve it was with your nephew
or maybe
Doug Peacock (22:26):
my cousin lived there. He, he was he just left
this house driving my car to SanFrancisco two days ago. Wow. So
I mean, he's still there. He andAndrea. He moved out Livingston,
and help. Andrea and I build ahouse in the so called Paradise
(22:48):
Valley, Paradise, mostly to thereal estate industry, of course.
And he and Andrea own thebookstore together, you know,
books is still around. But yeah,I went back there as void. I
looked for arrowheads and had acollection. And I decided that I
had to rebury repatriateeverything. And so this is just
(23:13):
a piece of that, you know, thegreatest honoring of the smell
of archaeology, I think is, isless the amount of science you
can squeeze out of it than justa sense of awe and wonder for
another world, you know, that wecame from, but don't know
anymore. And really, as a youngman, that was so good for me to
(23:37):
try to imagine the lives ofother people how they lived on
the land, what they werethinking, you know, and
Thom Pollard (23:45):
yeah, it's it's such a good scene, you know, you
put it back where it belonged.
And break the law to, to put itback, right. Yeah.
Doug Peacock (23:55):
I was there wearing camo, you know, because
some of the places I foundarrowheads were sand ridges,
they're just full of burials,about 4000 years old and things
like that. But, you know, peoplehad failed houses on those
things, or the cornfields maybehad townhouse development
plopped on it. Most of theplaces were as I first found
(24:18):
them, because I'd like to go toremote places. But anyway, there
I was wearing camouflage with agarden crawl low crawling
through the shrubbery of somestranger's house, trying to get
as close as I could to where Ifound a spear head or something
and digging a hole and puttingit you know, that could have
been shot on site.
Thom Pollard (24:37):
I've got a garden travel, not afraid to use it. So
I suppose the ultimate questionis then if to kind of bring it
full circle. You know, you askedthe question, Was it worth it?
And I guess we don't, we mightnot really know until the day
comes that we close our eyes forthe last time and then You know,
(25:00):
if your work was worth it whenyou have whatever, your life
review or whatever, but so didyou do good is in terms of when
you look in the mirror and nowyou're like, way to go oh man,
like nice job.
Doug Peacock (25:16):
Yeah, I don't and then try to fool myself but, you
know, at the end of the book,the last session was, it was
worth it you know that that's achapter of many about sorry
state of our planet and climatechange is firstly, you know, I
(25:40):
was lucky enough to see somewonders of the wild, especially
the animals, you know, and in somany places and you know, it was
a truly, I was lucky I got toplaces before they went away.
And you know, I knew how to dothat and I worked hard to do it.
But, you know, the guy Dougservices guy called me last
(26:03):
night, he's the one that hadBART to bear that grizzly and
Legends of the Fall In Love was,was anyway, he had never seen a
wild grid. So I took him up tothe grizzly hills. You know,
and, once taking Doug Seuss tothe grizzly Hilton, and the two
of us watching the circlefriend, tightly gather around a
(26:24):
small waterhole for Swain,Mother Grizzlies for bear cubs,
a yearling and two silver dog.
Grizzly bears, you know,teenagers a prior litter, one of
the moms science doesn't admitthe spectrum of behavior. The
bears were dancing. It was worthit.
Thom Pollard (26:47):
So good. That is so good. Ah, dog, hopefully it's
many, many months, many yearsoff in the distance. But have
you have you told your closestfriend what you want them to do
with you when that day shouldcome?
Doug Peacock (27:08):
No sooner than we want. I actually, I'm on oxygen
sometimes here and the oxygenmachine broke this morning. So I
hope Andrea doesn't have to goout and look for my truck in the
desert and find me sprawled outthere with the dogs keeping the
coyotes away from eating. But,you know, if I last this year,
(27:30):
and it'll be good, you know, andthat's okay. I kind of made my
peace with that a long time ago.
And Andrea can just neighborsgot a backhoe. And we've got
some, you know, family pets,cats mostly buried in the
backyard, just put me alongsidethem.
Thom Pollard (27:54):
So you really, you really feel that that maybe
Doug Peacock (27:57):
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna live forever. I've you
know, I've got a I have aterminal disease. Simple. As you
know, I've got some degree ofcongestive heart failure, they
can't figure out exactly whatkind or if it's treatable or
not. I've got to I've got tofind a place that can give me an
MRI, cardiac MRI, because I'vegot a pacemaker. Not every place
(28:20):
can do it.
Thom Pollard (28:21):
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That's the one that wouldhave gotten you killed with the
bear.
Doug Peacock (28:29):
Yeah. I mean, oh, he's a sweetheart and but this
is his older brother. And no.
Oh, my God. That's your catbuddy over there. I have to hang
out here and take care of theanimals. Well,
Thom Pollard (28:49):
that's beautiful.
Well, your dogs and cat need youfor at least careful. So Doug,
I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go,my friend. It's it's it's an
honor getting to know you staywarm and healthy. Okay, Tom.
Doug Peacock (29:08):
Thank you,
Thom Pollard (29:09):
Doug. I can't thank you enough for taking the
time to speak with me. Please,please live longer. We need
people like you on this planet.
I say that from the bottom of myheart. And I mean it to every
fiber of my being. When I readyour book, Doug, I had told you
that I fold over pages of thingsthat I want to remember. And in
(29:30):
this book, I folded over so manypages that I had to double over
some of the corners folded over.
This one is a keeper. Anybodywho hasn't read it or hasn't
known about it, please go lookup this book. Was it worth it? A
wilderness warriors long trailhome by Doug peacock published
(29:52):
by Patagonia, an amazing book.
When it figure that Simba makesan appearance at the end. I
think Simba might have heard Thedogs barking. In the notes of
this episode, you will findlinks to where you can look up
Doug peacock where you can findhis book, and where you can find
a link to some of theorganizations that he champions
(30:13):
that he founded and continues towork for. If you like what you
saw or heard, I welcome you tosubscribe to the podcast or to
this YouTube channel. If youdon't want to, that's fine as
well. But I do urge you to dowhat Doug asks all the readers
in this is to challenge thereader to make certain that the
(30:33):
answer to the question at theend of one's life. Was it worth
it? Is Yes. Thanks for beinghere. I appreciate you. I
appreciate Doug peacock andthank you very much. Look
forward to seeing the next timearound
I read a book.
Well, I read a lot of books, butthis one is different. I don't
usually feel compelled to telleverybody about a book that I
read. And so I'm going to tellyou today about the book called
Was it worth it? A wildernesswarriors long trail home by Doug
peacock. Today I have Doug withus on the happiness quotient
(00:25):
podcast, which is also a specialepisode I'm showing on my
Everest mystery YouTube channel.
So why there or why here if youare seeing this on the Everest
mystery? Well, in not such asneaky way, my Everest mystery
channel isn't exactly aboutMount Everest. I use Mount
(00:48):
Everest as a portal to talkabout things like doing the
right thing, following yourpassions, taking care of each
other, and the planet. That'sreally what it's all about. And
that's why I'm bringing thathere to you today. I can bet you
my bottom dollar that thisconversation, and his book may
very well change your day andcould change your perspective on
(01:11):
life. And in this conversation,Doug himself answers the
question. Was it worth it?
Spoiler alert, stay tuned. Dougwas a friend of my brother
Jeff's. And because Doug wassuch a legend in my mind
already. I always thought mybrother was be asking me when he
told me that he used to go flyfishing with Doug in Livingston,
(01:31):
Montana. So now about Doug. Dougpeacock is an American
naturalist and author and afilmmaker who is best known for
his work in conservation andactivism on behalf of grizzly
bears in the American West. Dougis the founder and chairman of
the board of Save theYellowstone grizzly, and I'll
(01:54):
share the link to that and manyother links that might interest
you about Doug and his books. Inthe notes under the video and
this episode. Dogs love forgrizzly bears began during his
service as a Green Beret medicin the Vietnam War. And after
the war, he suffered from PTSDand found solace in the
(02:16):
wilderness much like he did whenhe was a boy growing up in
northern Michigan, exploringswamps and forests and remote
places where there were nopeople. After the war, he
devoted himself to observing anddocumenting grizzly bears in
their natural habitat. Dog was alongtime friend of the late
Edward Abbey who wrote themonkey wrench gang where
(02:40):
peacocks essence and spirit andpassion was immortalized in the
character known as GeorgeWashington. hayduke. Sir Doug,
as I like to call him is theauthor of several books
including grizzly years insearch of the American
wilderness. He's also worked asa consultant on several
(03:01):
documentaries, including grizzlycountry and in the path of the
grizzly dog says that bringing agun into grizzly country will
get you more into trouble thanout of it. Doug's book is
described as a collection ofgripping stories of adventure.
Doug peacock loner, iconoclast,environmentalist, and
(03:24):
contemporary of Edward Abbeyreflects on a life lived in the
wild. Reflecting on the questionmany ask in their twilight
years, was it worth it? Sufficeit to say grizzly bears saved
his life, he has now devoted hisentire life to protecting them.
Doug continues to workdesperately to protect the
(03:47):
grizzly bears and their habitatthrough his writing, speaking
engagements and activism andtalking to guys like me, who
read his book and just had totalk to him. Here's my inspiring
interview with Doug peacockabout his book. Was it worth it?
A wilderness warriors long trailhome, published by Patagonia
(04:08):
from his home in the desert, solet's try this. Doug. Thanks. I
really appreciate it.
Doug Peacock (04:17):
Yeah, no problem.
Thom Pollard (04:19):
Okay, do you remember my brother Jeff at all
from Earth member
Doug Peacock (04:24):
Jeff? I was just thinking about his favorite
fishing hole on the YellowstoneRiver where, you know, he was
near his house, he could walkdown there, there were some
riprap and but, you know,there's a backwater before the
river bifurcates into twochannels and there was a giant
fish in there that started aboutdusk it was start jumping in
(04:48):
some 12 pound frown probably.
Anyways, it was a story oflegend. You know? He,
Thom Pollard (04:58):
he loved those stories and I think sometimes if
if I wasn't there, he would havesaid it was a 14 pound Brown for
sure. Because he loves to. Hewould never let the truth get in
the way of a good story.
Doug Peacock (05:12):
common trait among certain
Thom Pollard (05:15):
is fishermen, especially I think they're
Doug Peacock (05:18):
famed friends.
Thom Pollard (05:20):
It's crazy. I know, this is an immediate off
the off the starting linetangent, but it's really amazing
when you lose a friend, or like,in my case, my brother and not
that I didn't, you know, expectthat maybe he was going through
troubled times and things likethat. But it's such a shocking
(05:42):
reorient in terms of your lifewhen you lose somebody.
Doug Peacock (05:46):
Oh, god damn right. Yeah, it even though even
the ones that don't surpriseyou, it doesn't really matter.
It's loss. And, yeah, love itthrough way.
Thom Pollard (05:59):
I think that's probably why in in your book and
your most recent book that Iwas, so I you know, I if I had
to read it aloud right now, Iwouldn't be able to get through
certain sentences because I'dalso choke up and have tears
coming but but just in, in thegreat reverence you have for
friendships, and the people thatyou cared for and loved, and how
(06:24):
you recognized their passing.
And in so doing it was byhonoring them, like the way you
prepared for it Abby's Memorial.
And I'm, of course, speakinghere to Doug about his longtime
and very close friend, EdwardAbbey, the author, essayist, and
environmental activist whopassed away and entrusted Doug
(06:48):
and a few very close friendswith his burial. Is that is that
did that get taught to you? Oris that just who you are?
Doug Peacock (06:58):
And no, I, I kind of grew into that one, because I
had a lot of death in my life ata fairly early age. And, you
know, one of the last things youcan do is, is, especially when
your friend who is dying, andhas, you know, has requests of
you if you take them veryseriously, including illegal
(07:22):
burials and all kinds of shit.
Thom Pollard (07:27):
Illegal burials are the best, would you? Would
you just tell me ever so brieflyabout the illegal burial? I love
that part of the book.
Doug Peacock (07:37):
Well, you know, I was with him, the last days of
his life, and I was alone withinthe last night of his life. We,
you know, me and Clark's brotherin law, and father and Jack left
lever, were taking turns, youknow, attending to add, you
(07:58):
know, it's sitting with him andI had the last shift from
midnight until the next day. Andat the end of that period, he
left us and the last time Ediesmiled, you know, and I was
there doing what I could, youknow, shooting them up with
morphine and compass in anotherworthless drugs because he had
(08:21):
esophageal varices, which youusually get from cirrhosis of
the liver. He didn't have it. Hehad it, you know, he had a
ganglia from acute pancreatitis,it blocked the portal vein. So
it's the same physicalcondition, just a different
cause. And last time, at mildestwhen I told him the name of the
mountain range, he was going tobe buried you know, that was
Thom Pollard (08:47):
amazing.
Doug Peacock (08:49):
Yeah. And we went out there, you know, we had to
get our shit together in ahurry. But, so, we all loaded up
AED and, you know, dry ice andsleeping bag and body bag and
threw them in the back of apickup and drove a couple miles
(09:12):
through where I am talking rightnow, you know, and several days
walk west of here. You know, wedidn't find a place all that
day. You know, my friend Jackwas adamant about putting him up
on you know, a promontory ofsomeplace in the cap rock of the
mesa was with, you know, Crystaland hard limestone in on a
(09:38):
pickaxe to just bounce off it.
And so I finally found a spotthe next morning and we went
down and and Steven I took turnsdigging, digging the grave, but
everybody wanted to had a chanceto lay down and when I laid down
in it, seven buzzards passedover circled back there. We're
joined by three more. So there's10 buzzard. And of course, all
(10:01):
Ed wanted to come back as aturkey vulture. So I thought it
was the right place, you know.
And, you know, I talked to Clarkcabbie yesterday and she asked
quite been awkward this year andsaid, No, I hadn't. And last
year, you know, I went out therebut I stayed back. I didn't I
(10:24):
didn't want to you know, Iusually go leave something a
bear effigy or something likethat, that, but this last time,
I got it within a couple 100feet where I could, you know,
see the the country and and letmy son go down here. And it's my
son's birthday today. So, yeah,he's up in judo.
Thom Pollard (10:47):
Amazing. Amazing.
Wow, cool. Born on February 2.
That's a pretty cool today.
Yeah, in Legend and lore, Isuppose so. So I loved your
book. And I had heard so manystories about you from my
brother. And I will honestlyadmit, I thought he was, I still
(11:09):
didn't know if he was full ofcrap. If he really had spent
time with you. I'm like, peacockis probably thinking, Who the
hell is this? Thom Pollard guyand who was his brother? But now
I believe my brother. He told mea lot of shit over the years
that I'm sure was, you know,like stories. Yeah, but your
(11:30):
book was, it was exactly what Ineeded. What What it did was it
made me realize that I it theimportance of kind of telling
your story that you leavebehind, you know, I've got two
kids, or we're adults now. 21and 25. And it's like, you know,
they know me. But but if I wereto leave something behind, like
(11:54):
a book, you know,
Doug Peacock (11:56):
ya know, it. That might be the last book I write.
But sure, came out easy. No, Iwrote murdered in record time.
And it was effortless to write.
I don't know. So I think I waswaiting to you know, I've got a
(12:17):
lot of stories in my life that Icould tell, but I am told some
of them and this is these are abunch of of often trips where
some significant happened likefinding sign in the last Mexican
grassy that needs to be in therecord. And, and I hadn't
published that, and it needs tobe out there and sent him in the
(12:43):
tiger trip and a few otherthings is, you know, hadn't had
a book publishing anyway. And soI just crammed it all in. But
the running of it wasremarkable. And I've tried to
read it since and it's it'spretty good shit.
Thom Pollard (13:02):
So when, so you went just with a clarity of
mind, you had something to tell?
And yeah, a lot of it revolvesaround, you know, you get back
from Vietnam. And you're kind ofpurging demons, if you will,
living with, as they say, youknow, PTSD, and you discovered,
you know, this, this kind ofthis intimate connection with
(13:25):
the grizzly bears and countingthem and finding them and
observing them. And that'sturned into become really a
theme of your life like 50 plusyears, as you said, just really
protecting them and hoping toprotect not only the bear but
the wilderness tracks that arevital to their survival and and
(13:46):
protecting them from peopletrophy hunting them as well, I
suppose. But how are we withthat in the world today? Are we
completely screwed? Or have hasthere been any progress as far
as you can see it with the workthat you've done? Well, I
Doug Peacock (14:07):
you know, it's full time work right now. And
I'm still running thisorganization, which I have no
business running, but myexecutive director a couple of
years ago, just flicked up andshort and, um, I did. Patagonia,
you know, and I'm doing a bunchof stuff. I'm making another
movie which you know, I willproduce and you know, I've got a
(14:30):
freeway underpass of i 90.
That's a very serious projectI'm working on and you know, and
I'm suing the goddamn feds. Andactually Patagonia gave me 45
grand yesterday to help withillegal work, you know, that's
the I don't make any money. Igot no money but you know, they
they keep me hobbling along. Inthis book has been good too. You
(14:54):
know, I want all kinds offucking prizes. Yeah, I got I
got enough beer money from theAmerican Academy of Arts and
Letters last for a whole year,you know?
Thom Pollard (15:09):
Oh, yeah. Well, if I show up, it's going to be one
less month of your year, I
Doug Peacock (15:13):
thought, oh my god, well, that's what it's for.
And, you know, and I got anotherprize a couple of days ago from
Patagonia told me my butt tosome, you know, some bullshit. I
mean, it's a testimony,Patagonia did a very good job
producing his book. So they gota proper layout and also won the
(15:34):
National Outdoor Book Awards.
Winner for nonfiction. It didn'tcome with any beer money. So I
was whining, but somebody heldmy bag, your money, fill it up,
someone
Thom Pollard (15:51):
will buy you a beer for that award. So it's
kind of like a card like it hascredit. And I guess
Doug Peacock (15:59):
that's okay. I didn't set out trying to be a
writer, but I've had to usewriting to just record my life
and leave a record behind minutecount counting to. So you know,
there's a half a dozen booksnow. And they, I can't imagine
writing another one. But thelast one went real fast.
Thom Pollard (16:21):
I know, I'm kind of reaching out at a bunch of
different things, but a fewthings that really stood out to
me in it. One, you said.
Solitude, you talked about theimportance in your life,
especially of solitude, and isthe deepest Well, I've
encountered in life. I thinkthat there's a lot of people in
(16:42):
the planet right now, at leastin this crazy society that have
no freaking clue what solitudeis, and how beneficial it could
be for them.
Doug Peacock (16:54):
Yeah. That's in the first few pages of the book.
Yeah, I mean, read this quiz.
You know, and Abby and I sharedgreat long walks across Cabeza
Prieta, which is just, you know,20 miles to my west right now.
And, you know, it was thegreatest currency we we ever
shared, I think. So it finishedone and attempted another, even
(17:18):
after he began to die. So withthree friends, I buried him out
there. Solitude is a deepestWell, I have encountered in this
life. And I found most of iteither down here in the desert,
or from grizzy country,introspection arrives, easily
blowing off the two needlepines, or on the desert breeze.
(17:38):
It's also a human luxury, bestindulged in before your children
before my long, west to eastwalks down here, were often
taken during the holidays. And Ihad to give him up cold turkey,
once my kids were old enough toknow what Christmas was. But,
but what trips, they werelooking across the creosote
(18:04):
bajada towards the nearest waterin a distant mountain range 40
Impossible miles ago, and thenjust walk in there. And you, you
start thinking like that, youknow, walk there doesn't matter
of which three or four days Icould walk to Montana, you know,
if I had enough time from here.
Thom Pollard (18:25):
Amazing, amazing.
Doug, you also said the those inthe so called civilized world.
There are two camps eitherbelieve in human life has more
intrinsic value than the bears,or you do not. And, and I love
that because you talk aboutlike, so if you have a gun and a
bear is charging you where doyou actually shoot? Like, what's
(18:47):
that line of demarcation? And Ithink it's fitting that the
cover of the book is you withthe spear so we know how close
the bear needs to be before youroll your weapon. But could you
talk about that? You know,you're you're so passionate
about the survival of thesebeasts that I guess not not in a
(19:08):
crazy man's way, but you'reprobably be willing to be
devoured by one if it might helptheir species. Yeah, I think
that was page 171 on your bookthat I read.
Doug Peacock (19:23):
Anyway, here. You know, there's there's Tompkins
and Rick Ridgeway and BartonLewis, an old friend of mine,
were on a beluga whaleexpedition where everybody was
scared of polar bears. I was atpolar bear guy. And, you know,
so we went we flipped to summer.
We flipped resolute which isjust a little nothing there. And
(19:47):
the weather was lousy. So we hada few days before we could find
a bush plane to fly us out touninhabited island summers and
islands. And you know, sofinally we get up there Finally
we land next to the fjord onSomerset Island, the scientists
assembles his tent and campinggear, while the rest of us
unload to Beaver bush plane, theplane departs and I put together
(20:09):
my Polar Bear spear, soaking thesnow in water, inserting the
iron spear head into the slot,and then lash in tight with what
Rawhide they should dry andshrink. Last touch is a screw
has sharp metal point into theend opposite to spear point
where it can anchor on thefrozen groan or ice like a pike.
(20:31):
You know, the governmentdisagreed with my plan. Of
course, it's like you have tocarry a gun up there and I
wasn't gonna do it. And theyassign the Inuit 100 campiness
was a gun. Once the InuitsHunter checks up my spear, he
decides I'm serious and webecome friends. As the midnight
sun headed in the West, heshares of beldam Canadian
(20:53):
whiskey from a flask would meanI hadn't tried out the spirit of
a bear yet, but anyone had once.
When this guy was 13, a polarbear wandered into his village
and the boy and his cousinsunchained the dogs and when
after a while, a dog circled andnipped at the big bear the boys
thrust with their spirits, myInuit pelts finally through His
(21:16):
Spirit was given credit for thekill the Inuit Ponte polar bear
fur, fur and food, one of thefew remaining traditional
peoples who intentionally andregularly seek out big
predators. You wouldn't want totry to without some really good
dog. And, you know,incidentally, might I have two
Collie dogs here, you know, theolder one passed. He's a grizzly
(21:39):
bear dog, I trained him. I wentand collected the grizzly bear
shit from the valley that Jeffand I lived in. And and when he
was a puppy just got himcomfortable around the smell of
it. We ran into a mother Grizzand her yearling cub neared the
side of Glacier Park. And he wasperfect. He sat He wiggled his
(22:02):
nose, but otherwise didn't makea move, didn't bark. And he's
got a younger brother here,that's a couple years younger,
it's a predator would havegotten if killed.
Thom Pollard (22:15):
Dogs so to me, toward at the end of the book,
you went back to Michigan, Ibelieve it was with your nephew
or maybe
Doug Peacock (22:26):
my cousin lived there. He, he was he just left
this house driving my car to SanFrancisco two days ago. Wow. So
I mean, he's still there. He andAndrea. He moved out Livingston,
and help. Andrea and I build ahouse in the so called Paradise
(22:48):
Valley, Paradise, mostly to thereal estate industry, of course.
And he and Andrea own thebookstore together, you know,
books is still around. But yeah,I went back there as void. I
looked for arrowheads and had acollection. And I decided that I
had to rebury repatriateeverything. And so this is just
(23:13):
a piece of that, you know, thegreatest honoring of the smell
of archaeology, I think is, isless the amount of science you
can squeeze out of it than justa sense of awe and wonder for
another world, you know, that wecame from, but don't know
anymore. And really, as a youngman, that was so good for me to
(23:37):
try to imagine the lives ofother people how they lived on
the land, what they werethinking, you know, and
Thom Pollard (23:45):
yeah, it's it's such a good scene, you know, you
put it back where it belonged.
And break the law to, to put itback, right. Yeah.
Doug Peacock (23:55):
I was there wearing camo, you know, because
some of the places I foundarrowheads were sand ridges,
they're just full of burials,about 4000 years old and things
like that. But, you know, peoplehad failed houses on those
things, or the cornfields maybehad townhouse development
plopped on it. Most of theplaces were as I first found
(24:18):
them, because I'd like to go toremote places. But anyway, there
I was wearing camouflage with agarden crawl low crawling
through the shrubbery of somestranger's house, trying to get
as close as I could to where Ifound a spear head or something
and digging a hole and puttingit you know, that could have
been shot on site.
Thom Pollard (24:37):
I've got a garden travel, not afraid to use it. So
I suppose the ultimate questionis then if to kind of bring it
full circle. You know, you askedthe question, Was it worth it?
And I guess we don't, we mightnot really know until the day
comes that we close our eyes forthe last time and then You know,
(25:00):
if your work was worth it whenyou have whatever, your life
review or whatever, but so didyou do good is in terms of when
you look in the mirror and nowyou're like, way to go oh man,
like nice job.
Doug Peacock (25:16):
Yeah, I don't and then try to fool myself but, you
know, at the end of the book,the last session was, it was
worth it you know that that's achapter of many about sorry
state of our planet and climatechange is firstly, you know, I
(25:40):
was lucky enough to see somewonders of the wild, especially
the animals, you know, and in somany places and you know, it was
a truly, I was lucky I got toplaces before they went away.
And you know, I knew how to dothat and I worked hard to do it.
But, you know, the guy Dougservices guy called me last
(26:03):
night, he's the one that hadBART to bear that grizzly and
Legends of the Fall In Love was,was anyway, he had never seen a
wild grid. So I took him up tothe grizzly hills. You know,
and, once taking Doug Seuss tothe grizzly Hilton, and the two
of us watching the circlefriend, tightly gather around a
(26:24):
small waterhole for Swain,Mother Grizzlies for bear cubs,
a yearling and two silver dog.
Grizzly bears, you know,teenagers a prior litter, one of
the moms science doesn't admitthe spectrum of behavior. The
bears were dancing. It was worthit.
Thom Pollard (26:47):
So good. That is so good. Ah, dog, hopefully it's
many, many months, many yearsoff in the distance. But have
you have you told your closestfriend what you want them to do
with you when that day shouldcome?
Doug Peacock (27:08):
No sooner than we want. I actually, I'm on oxygen
sometimes here and the oxygenmachine broke this morning. So I
hope Andrea doesn't have to goout and look for my truck in the
desert and find me sprawled outthere with the dogs keeping the
coyotes away from eating. But,you know, if I last this year,
(27:30):
and it'll be good, you know, andthat's okay. I kind of made my
peace with that a long time ago.
And Andrea can just neighborsgot a backhoe. And we've got
some, you know, family pets,cats mostly buried in the
backyard, just put me alongsidethem.
Thom Pollard (27:54):
So you really, you really feel that that maybe
Doug Peacock (27:57):
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna live forever. I've you
know, I've got a I have aterminal disease. Simple. As you
know, I've got some degree ofcongestive heart failure, they
can't figure out exactly whatkind or if it's treatable or
not. I've got to I've got tofind a place that can give me an
MRI, cardiac MRI, because I'vegot a pacemaker. Not every place
(28:20):
can do it.
Thom Pollard (28:21):
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That's the one that wouldhave gotten you killed with the
bear.
Doug Peacock (28:29):
Yeah. I mean, oh, he's a sweetheart and but this
is his older brother. And no.
Oh, my God. That's your catbuddy over there. I have to hang
out here and take care of theanimals. Well,
Thom Pollard (28:49):
that's beautiful.
Well, your dogs and cat need youfor at least careful. So Doug,
I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go,my friend. It's it's it's an
honor getting to know you staywarm and healthy. Okay, Tom.
Doug Peacock (29:08):
Thank you,
Thom Pollard (29:09):
Doug. I can't thank you enough for taking the
time to speak with me. Please,please live longer. We need
people like you on this planet.
I say that from the bottom of myheart. And I mean it to every
fiber of my being. When I readyour book, Doug, I had told you
that I fold over pages of thingsthat I want to remember. And in
(29:30):
this book, I folded over so manypages that I had to double over
some of the corners folded over.
This one is a keeper. Anybodywho hasn't read it or hasn't
known about it, please go lookup this book. Was it worth it? A
wilderness warriors long trailhome by Doug peacock published
(29:52):
by Patagonia, an amazing book.
When it figure that Simba makesan appearance at the end. I
think Simba might have heard Thedogs barking. In the notes of
this episode, you will findlinks to where you can look up
Doug peacock where you can findhis book, and where you can find
a link to some of theorganizations that he champions
(30:13):
that he founded and continues towork for. If you like what you
saw or heard, I welcome you tosubscribe to the podcast or to
this YouTube channel. If youdon't want to, that's fine as
well. But I do urge you to dowhat Doug asks all the readers
in this is to challenge thereader to make certain that the
(30:33):
answer to the question at theend of one's life. Was it worth
it? Is Yes. Thanks for beinghere. I appreciate you. I
appreciate Doug peacock andthank you very much. Look
forward to seeing the next timearound
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