March 27, 2022 • 35 mins
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Recorded on 26 March 2022
Iryna Kabluchko is a journalist from Ukraine.
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Thom Dharma Pollard
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thom Pollard (00:00):
following is a conversation with a Rena Kabu
Chico, a Ukrainian televisionjournalist who recently fled the
capital city of Kiev in Ukraine.
She spoke to me about helpingher mother evacuate to safety
after her building was hit by amissile, about the day of the
invasion by Russian troops, andthe death of Ukrainian
(00:20):
journalists at the hands ofRussian troops. This is the
happiness quotient on ThomPollard. Irina was introduced to
me by Igor Nalli Vibo, acolleague of hers Igor is
currently in hiding at anundisclosed location in Ukraine,
you can hear my conversationwith Igor that took place on
(00:41):
25th of March 2022 on thehappiness quotient podcast, as
well as on the happinessquotient YouTube channel in its
entirety. Before I begin theconversation with arena cub
Leachco, please consider sharingthis episode wherever you can.
These brave journalists havespoken to me to help stem the
(01:03):
tide of Disinformation andPropaganda. When you share the
episode with others, you in turnhelp tell the real stories of
the people of Ukraine. Now myconversation with arena
Kabukicho. Tell me about that.
(01:25):
So you you're a televisionreporter and journalist.
Iryna Kabluchko (01:31):
I'm a journalist, mine, like current
job my job from previous life. Iwas TV host for like, traumatic
segment for morning show of thenational channel. It was more
infotainment. So now it doesn'twork. It's not on the broadcast.
(01:56):
But yes, still, it's quiteprofessional.
Thom Pollard (01:59):
So okay, so and what happened? Did they shut the
television station down? Or isit just too dangerous? Or what?
How? Why is
Iryna Kabluchko (02:08):
it? No, no, no, no, no. You know, what happened?
All our main channels nationalchannels. They united for one
news stream? Yeah. Not onlyUkrainian United not on the
politician united. But evenchannels forgot about ratings
(02:28):
and united to make this newsstream 24/7. And, like Each
channel has like special slot?
Several hours.
Thom Pollard (02:43):
So well, and so where does that get broadcast
from? Is it isn't it dangerous?
Wouldn't that be a target? Or isit in an undisclosed location?
Iryna Kabluchko (02:54):
Ah, it can be dangerous for it can be
dangerous. Yes. Because somechannels still have studios in
Kiev. Some channels moved toWest part of Ukraine, some
western cities and organized tothose Zara but for reporters for
(03:16):
journalist who works? Who works?
Yes, in Kiev, in MariupolMagnitsky. It's extremely,
extremely dangerous. Sure. And Ithink you heard about, like
Russian troops killed. SeveralGermany's to ready cranium to
(03:37):
America.
Thom Pollard (03:42):
Can I have Can you can you tell me a little bit
about that? Because in theUnited States, there's so many
different reports. And I followit. But so is that been in the
capital city where that's takenplace near where you are?
Iryna Kabluchko (03:59):
I'm now in relief at West Ukraine. But I
told you before, even now, westill have have air alert. And
30 minutes before ourconversation in reef of war,
several strong explosions. Westill don't have official
(04:21):
information, but it's very bigsmoke. You can see it almost
from each part of belief now.
And yes. So it's what is aboutto leave about this case is
journalists. By the way, sorryfor my English. I will make
mistakes, but I think we willunderstand each other.
Thom Pollard (04:42):
Yes, absolutely.
Iryna Kabluchko (04:44):
About journalists. We have several
small cities, towns, close ourcapital. It's helping Boucher
and gustong and it's very closeto Kiev and a lot of people who
work Kiev, my colleagues,generally it's young families,
(05:05):
they lived there because it wasa wonderful place to live
outside key for with, you know,this New Year's trees around and
colorful small houses, it news,new houses, it was very
wonderful place. And almost fromfirst day of the war, it was not
(05:30):
competitive, but Russian troopstried to occupied it. And it was
very complicated fight betweenUkrainian and Russian troops.
And generally, and finally,Russian occupied some part of
this region. And inside forUkrainian for civil people, it
(05:55):
was really how, because peoplesit on the ground, like two
weeks without electricity, warmfood, water, with on homeless
people with I don't knowanimals, and a lot of killed
people just lays it still likethat they just lay on the
(06:19):
street. And people even can'tbury their relatives like
husband, for example, can buryhis wife and do it on the ground
of his house. This is situationnow it's maybe 10 kilometers
from key from our capital. Soand in this cities, it's what
(06:41):
happened with journalists. Sobecause they tried to film
equation, it was almostimpossible to evacuate from this
cities. And some journalists whotried to just cover this
situation. They were killedSarah.
Thom Pollard (07:08):
It's in the I'm speechless. This is something so
strange to my experience in mylife that I can't really imagine
it although, you know,television, and the News brings
it into my home, if you will,essentially. But let me ask you
(07:28):
this. So when when? On February23, life was normal for you. And
then the occupation then theyinvaded? What was your day like
on February 24?
Iryna Kabluchko (07:45):
Oh, it was very long, probably 5050 hours of
results sleeping. You know, it'sstrange, because usually I
switch off my phone for thenight. But this night, I didn't
do it. I think that most peoplein Ukraine feel something's that
you had them justice died. And Isleep with air plaques. That's
(08:09):
why I didn't hear explosion. ButI woke up from my mother mother
call. She just asking me. Like,did you hear it started? And at
this time, because I already waswithout earplugs. I hear hear
(08:30):
strong explosion. So I rememberthat. Sure. I just teamed up.
And my first goal, my firstfocus was to help to organize
some of equation for my mother,because she lives in hartcliffe,
(08:53):
if you hear about the city, isto crane. And it's now it's even
famous district, north south ofcar. It's East East North of
Harkey F and understood thatthis district view firstly need
(09:13):
to rush into troops Russiantanks, because it's only 35
kilometers from the frontier.
The border as it's why Iremember. You know, I was ready
for this. I even had some planwhat we will do is my mother,
but when it happened, it was notpanic at all. But it was you
it's very complicated to focuson one things like you, you try
(09:36):
to to do something to find formom some apartment somewhere and
you don't know where then youtry to listen to some news just
to understand situations whereRussian are just in this moment.
So first, I tried to organizethis for my mother. Then I
(09:56):
understood that I put Parentsare several things for the bar,
you know, like, the water likebackpack with my documents with
my money. But I didn't thinkabout water. And when it
started, I didn't have water atall in my home. So I went
outside tried to find it. Allsoaps were closed. And I
(10:16):
remember that in one minute, Ireally understood what happened.
And I just stop and start tocry. Because I felt extremely
unfair about Ukraine, about ourpeople like what we did wrong.
We just wanted to go our ownway. Just wanted to live without
(10:42):
dictator. It's it's all it's allour desire just to have our own
life. And for this, we have thisdramatic situation. It was maybe
a couple minutes, I don't know.
So then I was succeeded to thisvisit negotiation with my
(11:04):
mother, because she's 65 yearsold, and she leave left this
very dangerous district. Andshe's spent next 10 days. In my
cousin's house. It was severalfor several families there of
his kids. And most times theyspent on the ground because it's
(11:29):
always was explosions and give,you know, I was afraid about
tanks, street fights. And forthat I had planned, but I didn't
expect that that will bebombardment, really, I couldn't
think that they will bombardcivil people and house. And
(11:54):
just, for example, my motherhouse and Harkey from this
district. It already was heatedby five rockets, five missiles,
and one on ground and all houseall buildings with holes. All
flats result Windows withoutglass. Some result doers. I
(12:19):
don't know how they willrenovate it or not. But doesn't
matter. My mother. She's safenow. And then, after 10 days,
she emigrated from Harkey if Ican send you a photo, how
platform looked like this day,it was like million people on
platform. And it was people intrain wore everywhere. On Tour
(12:46):
lead on flat occur everywherekids, animals. It's really
disaster in 21st century. Yes.
And Phil first, my first day Iremember my first air alert.
First I sold fighter fightersand the sky first. My first
hours on the shelter, bombshelter, it was minus four
(13:09):
floors. extremely cold, dirty.
And again, kids there andremember what it was surprising.
Each time we had hear it. Like,please don't panic. Please don't
panic. But I didn't see panic atall around me. All people was
(13:32):
reset eyes, but pretty calm. AndI understand that, like
Ukrainian really have somedignity and even in this
dramatic situation. They arestrong. They don't show
children. They are nervous andtry to keep situation.
Thom Pollard (13:55):
So wow, that's a that's a powerful and
frightening day that. I don'timagine that your worst
nightmare would be that. And soyou left the capital city as
well. Did you evacuate?
Iryna Kabluchko (14:14):
Yes, I left when I understood. I was I
really trust our army. And Ibelieved always they will
protect me on the land. And theyreally did it. They're super
brave, super professional, supermotivated, and I think we all
(14:36):
proud of them. But again, Ididn't expect that it will be
bombardment from the sky. Andafter first bombs in key for two
residential buildings. Iunderstood that most time I
spent underground without anyconnection. I even didn't have
(14:58):
phone connections there. So Itotally on useless, useless
areas because I just sit on theground and do not think I
couldn't sleep. Because alwaysyou expect something we slept?
Not on exam? Yes. Like, it justwe slept on the claws to the
(15:20):
ready, run away from house onthe ground. And I understood
that yes, it's complicated tohave to work for the victory
from Kiev for me make somepeople can do it. It's okay, but
I couldn't. And then I left toleave. And here I have several
(15:45):
direction to do somethinguseful.
Thom Pollard (15:48):
So that's, that's beautiful. Thank you for that
explanation. So you're right nowwhat? You're continuing your
work, if you will, in German, byby using your journalism
background to help getinformation out to the world.
Are you working in tandem withIgor and other people, too? Are
(16:12):
what are what are some of thethings that you're trying to do
now, in terms of to stayproductive one, but to help the
world see the real story?
Iryna Kabluchko (16:24):
Firstly, we start to work for our morning.
So again, we try to make peoplea little bit different
information, then use the justlearn them to live this new
reality. You know how to findjob in this condition? Where to
(16:44):
better to hide from bombardment?
I don't know how to find goodplace abroad, something like
that. It's first direction. It'slike my main job. Yes. But as
for front for the war, what wedo? I told you that we have this
one news stream now. And it's onUkrainian language. Sure, yes.
(17:10):
But a lot of people around theworld don't understand Ukrainian
language. Yes. As it's why we doother stream with Russian
language. And I and mycolleagues, we do, like dabbing
on there, we sit exactly hereand immediately to translate it
(17:35):
on Russian language. And you cansee the stream on YouTube, on
Russian and big skepticalskeptic about people from the
Russia from Pharisee. It's fromthe Russia. But I know that a
lot of people can understandRussian as a role like multi
(17:57):
country countries, other berjonKazakhstan, Armenia, Georgia,
and we want people whounderstand Russian, no to about
situation in Ukraine, becauseRussian propaganda is extremely
strong. And I see even what tothink sometimes my best friends
(18:21):
and understands that even theyare victim of this propaganda.
Thom Pollard (18:31):
Wow. So do you need help? Are you asking people
from the outside to assist youin these translations? Or to
reach a broader audience? Or isit online? Is there somewhere
people could actually go and seethis? What you're doing?
Iryna Kabluchko (18:49):
Ah, it's yes, it's three people can see it.
Yes, you can find it on YouTube.
For people who understand justRussian language don't
understand Ukrainian. Yes, wework on radio station. We have
special equipment for that. It'slike big team of TV anchors, who
(19:12):
can speak very fast andtranslate very fast. So we have
everything for that just askpeople to watch it. People who
want to know to
Thom Pollard (19:31):
wonderful so I'll ask you to send me that any
links or YouTube links or thechannel links? So I can share
those with the people who listento and see our conversation. And
then also, just kind of in a dayto day living kind of thing from
(19:54):
what what your life is like soyou're in Lviv is that where is
it okay for me to be say that orare you in a?
Iryna Kabluchko (20:02):
No, no, I'm okay. I'm not hide. I don't
hide.
Thom Pollard (20:07):
Okay, so do you see soldiers? Like, are there?
Are there Ukrainian soldiers inthe streets? Like, do you see
them? Because when right beforewe got on today, you said that
you could hear bombs, and therewas an air raid. And so when you
look outside, what what does itlook like from you know? Like,
(20:30):
is it just has your area beendevastated? Or is it does it
kind of look like a normal dayto day life or their soldiers
and, or their Russians? Or howdoes that look?
Iryna Kabluchko (20:43):
You know, in compared with Mariupol, for
example, or even Kiev Kharkiv.
It's totally differentatmosphere. But it's still
strange because we've acceptedmillions, millions, millions,
millions Ukrainian from otherparts of our country. statistics
that around 11 million peopleleft their houses in Ukraine
(21:10):
now. Maybe you heard about threemillions abroad. But inside
Ukraine, it's live in millions.
Yes, it's, it's really a lot.
And many people from vif theyreally don't understand what the
world is. They didn't see it,mostly. But they tried to do a
(21:32):
lot of things to help thisrefugees to organize a lot of
things to help our defenseforces. For example, my first
day here with my lovely friends,we did this cocktail Molotov ah,
productive cocktail. malata it'sto be honest, it's very nice
(21:54):
therapy. If you narrows to makea cocktail Molotow it helps a
lot.
Thom Pollard (22:04):
And so what did you do with it? Did you use it
or
Iryna Kabluchko (22:08):
No, we didn't use the be productive for our we
have territorial defense forces.
Yes, it's not army but it's veryclose to Army it's like people
who just want to defend citythey're not professional
military. So it's like SpecialForces and for them they don't
(22:30):
have really cool equipment likeour military has have and they
really need this cocktailmonitor because it's very useful
for tanks for example, you candestroy tank with that so you
want to do
Thom Pollard (22:52):
so you taught the viewers how to make the in here
in the United States Molotovcocktails you taught the people
how to make those so they coulddefend themselves if an attack
or a tank came near their home
Iryna Kabluchko (23:07):
you know i It's not that people do it for their
house No they just productiveand they give this Territorial
Defense Forces Wow big part abig part of this was brought
brought yes to key deliver it toKiev and other cities. Like here
(23:30):
is like the real V Yes. Yeah,make many things to organize.
Many things for for our army forrefugees for for that for
victory, because here it's moreor less calm, but at the same
time, relieved by the Vicebeautiful city. A lot of all the
(23:56):
buildings very romanticatmosphere. And it's extremely
strange when you walk forexample, on this streets,
romantic streets during thespring, and here's this terrible
air alert sound. It's likesomething it doesn't suit each
(24:20):
other. You understand? Sosometimes you feel so peaceful
here, but sometimes, almostdaily, I woke up not from my
alarm on my phone. I woke upfrom air alert, sometimes
several times per night. It'slike that. And this sound. It's
(24:42):
like something. It's our routinealready. And when I don't hear
it for a long time, I think Oh,something something wrong
wherever or alert.
Thom Pollard (24:55):
Wow. Okay, I don't want to take up too much. Your
time so I, if I could ask you,what would you like the people
outside of that region to knowlike, like a lot of people from
the United States will watchthis or listen to it. There's
people from all around theworld. But is there anything
that we could know? Or if peoplefeel like they would like to
(25:19):
help? What? What would that be?
Can you share that with us?
Iryna Kabluchko (25:25):
I want people know two things. Probably. I
think our president share a lotof things I want. Other people
know. So I will tell somethingmaybe President didn't tell
because it's from my ownexperience. Firstly, it's not
national conflict. And it'snever been like that. Because my
(25:48):
mother, I told you before abouther, she, she's part of
Ukrainian nation. She has aUkrainian passport. But she's
from Russia, her roots, Russian,and she almost can't tell speak
Ukrainian. She speaks Russian.
And all since she started tolive in Ukraine. She never had
(26:12):
any problem with Russianlanguage in Ukraine. She never
had any problem with currentnationality and Ukraine. And now
she lost her home. She in heat,her old age, she had big stress.
She so bombardment, and youunderstand she had problem from
(26:40):
Russian, not from Ukrainian. Soall propaganda of Russian, it's
not true at all, even oneperson. It's not true. And at
the same time, my father, he'sUkrainian, he's from Poltava.
It's a town in the center of hiscenter of Ukraine. And he leaves
(27:02):
for a long time in Russia. Andhe has Russian passport. He has
speak Ukrainian, but he hideUkrainian now. He started to be
fanatic. He like and supportPutin. And since this, the war
started, only one thing he toldme in message, please not to be
(27:24):
so aggressive in Facebook. Heeven didn't ask what happened is
me now. Because he supports thiswar. And a lot of people think
that Putin is problem, it's whatI want to say. program, not only
with Putin because millions,millions perience millions
(27:49):
people in Russia support thiswar. And if you remember what
happened in Georgia, Abkhazia,Moldova, trans, Austria, many,
many cases like that. It wasChenier first, the first Chilean
(28:10):
war. It was before Putin, and wehad very long and dramatic
history relation with Russia.
Might be you know about holidaymore when we didn't have bread
and people eat each other. Andit was Russian did Russia did
(28:31):
for us. So wasn't Putin Yes. Butit's already was like that. So I
don't know what wrong is this?
Russians, but they're like that.
Most people like that. Some areweak to to fight that but most
(28:52):
supported. It's, it's somethingI want people know abroad
because most people don'tunderstand it. I think about how
to Ukraine. I I just asked tosupport our army. Because what
we do now I want people tounderstand that they not just
(29:16):
protect Ukrainian land. I thinkit's the war psychopaths against
normal people. That's why allnormal people in the world
should support our army becausethey make it for all world or
(29:38):
normal world. Wow,
Thom Pollard (29:42):
thank you. That that is very well said I so
appreciate you telling me someof your story. And I hope and
would like to ask you if ifthere's this potential of doing
this again, soon, maybe in Arewe if you have the capability in
a week, or in 10 days, and justmaybe periodically, check in
(30:07):
with each other, and you cangive me updates.
Iryna Kabluchko (30:10):
Yeah, thank you for what you do. Thank you for
your interest. And thank you allpeople who will watch it. And
who wants to support Ukraine?
Now?
Thom Pollard (30:21):
I just actually have to ask you real quick when
I when Igor told me that you areinterested in having a
conversation with me, I went toyour Facebook page. And there is
a video on your Facebook pagethat is so surreal and shocking.
I cannot even fathom the wordsto put it but of the of the mass
(30:46):
grave being dug in the capitalcity and in those bags for 67
Ukraine's Ukrainians and I, thatbrought it so home to me and it
also made me realize howcompletely unprepared really, I
am to even have anyqualification to speak to
(31:09):
someone about this because Ireally know so little other than
that this is just a tragedy. Andit's, it's it's terrifying.
Iryna Kabluchko (31:19):
Yes, I would like if it's possible, you're so
this video, maybe it's Europeanbutcher, this place where
American journalist was killed?
I told you before. Yes. Andsituation in Memorial Eve, it's
even worse, because it'shundreds, hundreds, hundreds
(31:40):
people on the street. You know,when you need water, you go
outside to find some water andyou just see this bodies on the
street. It's now it's real. Andpeople like hostage hostages.
Yes, they they don't havechoice. They can't leave the
city now because it's blocked byRussian troops. I want it I want
(32:04):
to really people see it and knowit because again, I understand
Westbroek have very like, reachnormal life and you don't want
some may be Ukraine disturb youwith please give us the POM
(32:26):
protect our sky, no fly zone.
It's maybe annoyed some peoplebut if you understand reality,
you even think even one secondto support Ukraine.
Thom Pollard (32:43):
Irina, thank you so much for your time, stay
safe. And stay in touch and Iwill share with you when this is
completed. But be be well andknow that there are people who
do care, right, whatever littlethings that we can do. We will
try.
Iryna Kabluchko (33:04):
Okay, thank you so much. Have a nice day.
Thom Pollard (33:07):
You too. Bye. Bye now. Thank you for listening.
Please consider sharing thisepisode wherever you can. These
brave journalists have spoken tome to help stem the tide of
Disinformation and Propaganda.
When you share this episode withothers, you help tell the real
stories of the people ofUkraine. This is Thom Pollard.
(33:28):
Thank you
following is a conversation with a Rena Kabu
Chico, a Ukrainian televisionjournalist who recently fled the
capital city of Kiev in Ukraine.
She spoke to me about helpingher mother evacuate to safety
after her building was hit by amissile, about the day of the
invasion by Russian troops, andthe death of Ukrainian
(00:20):
journalists at the hands ofRussian troops. This is the
happiness quotient on ThomPollard. Irina was introduced to
me by Igor Nalli Vibo, acolleague of hers Igor is
currently in hiding at anundisclosed location in Ukraine,
you can hear my conversationwith Igor that took place on
(00:41):
25th of March 2022 on thehappiness quotient podcast, as
well as on the happinessquotient YouTube channel in its
entirety. Before I begin theconversation with arena cub
Leachco, please consider sharingthis episode wherever you can.
These brave journalists havespoken to me to help stem the
(01:03):
tide of Disinformation andPropaganda. When you share the
episode with others, you in turnhelp tell the real stories of
the people of Ukraine. Now myconversation with arena
Kabukicho. Tell me about that.
(01:25):
So you you're a televisionreporter and journalist.
Iryna Kabluchko (01:31):
I'm a journalist, mine, like current
job my job from previous life. Iwas TV host for like, traumatic
segment for morning show of thenational channel. It was more
infotainment. So now it doesn'twork. It's not on the broadcast.
(01:56):
But yes, still, it's quiteprofessional.
Thom Pollard (01:59):
So okay, so and what happened? Did they shut the
television station down? Or isit just too dangerous? Or what?
How? Why is
Iryna Kabluchko (02:08):
it? No, no, no, no, no. You know, what happened?
All our main channels nationalchannels. They united for one
news stream? Yeah. Not onlyUkrainian United not on the
politician united. But evenchannels forgot about ratings
(02:28):
and united to make this newsstream 24/7. And, like Each
channel has like special slot?
Several hours.
Thom Pollard (02:43):
So well, and so where does that get broadcast
from? Is it isn't it dangerous?
Wouldn't that be a target? Or isit in an undisclosed location?
Iryna Kabluchko (02:54):
Ah, it can be dangerous for it can be
dangerous. Yes. Because somechannels still have studios in
Kiev. Some channels moved toWest part of Ukraine, some
western cities and organized tothose Zara but for reporters for
(03:16):
journalist who works? Who works?
Yes, in Kiev, in MariupolMagnitsky. It's extremely,
extremely dangerous. Sure. And Ithink you heard about, like
Russian troops killed. SeveralGermany's to ready cranium to
(03:37):
America.
Thom Pollard (03:42):
Can I have Can you can you tell me a little bit
about that? Because in theUnited States, there's so many
different reports. And I followit. But so is that been in the
capital city where that's takenplace near where you are?
Iryna Kabluchko (03:59):
I'm now in relief at West Ukraine. But I
told you before, even now, westill have have air alert. And
30 minutes before ourconversation in reef of war,
several strong explosions. Westill don't have official
(04:21):
information, but it's very bigsmoke. You can see it almost
from each part of belief now.
And yes. So it's what is aboutto leave about this case is
journalists. By the way, sorryfor my English. I will make
mistakes, but I think we willunderstand each other.
Thom Pollard (04:42):
Yes, absolutely.
Iryna Kabluchko (04:44):
About journalists. We have several
small cities, towns, close ourcapital. It's helping Boucher
and gustong and it's very closeto Kiev and a lot of people who
work Kiev, my colleagues,generally it's young families,
(05:05):
they lived there because it wasa wonderful place to live
outside key for with, you know,this New Year's trees around and
colorful small houses, it news,new houses, it was very
wonderful place. And almost fromfirst day of the war, it was not
(05:30):
competitive, but Russian troopstried to occupied it. And it was
very complicated fight betweenUkrainian and Russian troops.
And generally, and finally,Russian occupied some part of
this region. And inside forUkrainian for civil people, it
(05:55):
was really how, because peoplesit on the ground, like two
weeks without electricity, warmfood, water, with on homeless
people with I don't knowanimals, and a lot of killed
people just lays it still likethat they just lay on the
(06:19):
street. And people even can'tbury their relatives like
husband, for example, can buryhis wife and do it on the ground
of his house. This is situationnow it's maybe 10 kilometers
from key from our capital. Soand in this cities, it's what
(06:41):
happened with journalists. Sobecause they tried to film
equation, it was almostimpossible to evacuate from this
cities. And some journalists whotried to just cover this
situation. They were killedSarah.
Thom Pollard (07:08):
It's in the I'm speechless. This is something so
strange to my experience in mylife that I can't really imagine
it although, you know,television, and the News brings
it into my home, if you will,essentially. But let me ask you
(07:28):
this. So when when? On February23, life was normal for you. And
then the occupation then theyinvaded? What was your day like
on February 24?
Iryna Kabluchko (07:45):
Oh, it was very long, probably 5050 hours of
results sleeping. You know, it'sstrange, because usually I
switch off my phone for thenight. But this night, I didn't
do it. I think that most peoplein Ukraine feel something's that
you had them justice died. And Isleep with air plaques. That's
(08:09):
why I didn't hear explosion. ButI woke up from my mother mother
call. She just asking me. Like,did you hear it started? And at
this time, because I already waswithout earplugs. I hear hear
(08:30):
strong explosion. So I rememberthat. Sure. I just teamed up.
And my first goal, my firstfocus was to help to organize
some of equation for my mother,because she lives in hartcliffe,
(08:53):
if you hear about the city, isto crane. And it's now it's even
famous district, north south ofcar. It's East East North of
Harkey F and understood thatthis district view firstly need
(09:13):
to rush into troops Russiantanks, because it's only 35
kilometers from the frontier.
The border as it's why Iremember. You know, I was ready
for this. I even had some planwhat we will do is my mother,
but when it happened, it was notpanic at all. But it was you
it's very complicated to focuson one things like you, you try
(09:36):
to to do something to find formom some apartment somewhere and
you don't know where then youtry to listen to some news just
to understand situations whereRussian are just in this moment.
So first, I tried to organizethis for my mother. Then I
(09:56):
understood that I put Parentsare several things for the bar,
you know, like, the water likebackpack with my documents with
my money. But I didn't thinkabout water. And when it
started, I didn't have water atall in my home. So I went
outside tried to find it. Allsoaps were closed. And I
(10:16):
remember that in one minute, Ireally understood what happened.
And I just stop and start tocry. Because I felt extremely
unfair about Ukraine, about ourpeople like what we did wrong.
We just wanted to go our ownway. Just wanted to live without
(10:42):
dictator. It's it's all it's allour desire just to have our own
life. And for this, we have thisdramatic situation. It was maybe
a couple minutes, I don't know.
So then I was succeeded to thisvisit negotiation with my
(11:04):
mother, because she's 65 yearsold, and she leave left this
very dangerous district. Andshe's spent next 10 days. In my
cousin's house. It was severalfor several families there of
his kids. And most times theyspent on the ground because it's
(11:29):
always was explosions and give,you know, I was afraid about
tanks, street fights. And forthat I had planned, but I didn't
expect that that will bebombardment, really, I couldn't
think that they will bombardcivil people and house. And
(11:54):
just, for example, my motherhouse and Harkey from this
district. It already was heatedby five rockets, five missiles,
and one on ground and all houseall buildings with holes. All
flats result Windows withoutglass. Some result doers. I
(12:19):
don't know how they willrenovate it or not. But doesn't
matter. My mother. She's safenow. And then, after 10 days,
she emigrated from Harkey if Ican send you a photo, how
platform looked like this day,it was like million people on
platform. And it was people intrain wore everywhere. On Tour
(12:46):
lead on flat occur everywherekids, animals. It's really
disaster in 21st century. Yes.
And Phil first, my first day Iremember my first air alert.
First I sold fighter fightersand the sky first. My first
hours on the shelter, bombshelter, it was minus four
(13:09):
floors. extremely cold, dirty.
And again, kids there andremember what it was surprising.
Each time we had hear it. Like,please don't panic. Please don't
panic. But I didn't see panic atall around me. All people was
(13:32):
reset eyes, but pretty calm. AndI understand that, like
Ukrainian really have somedignity and even in this
dramatic situation. They arestrong. They don't show
children. They are nervous andtry to keep situation.
Thom Pollard (13:55):
So wow, that's a that's a powerful and
frightening day that. I don'timagine that your worst
nightmare would be that. And soyou left the capital city as
well. Did you evacuate?
Iryna Kabluchko (14:14):
Yes, I left when I understood. I was I
really trust our army. And Ibelieved always they will
protect me on the land. And theyreally did it. They're super
brave, super professional, supermotivated, and I think we all
(14:36):
proud of them. But again, Ididn't expect that it will be
bombardment from the sky. Andafter first bombs in key for two
residential buildings. Iunderstood that most time I
spent underground without anyconnection. I even didn't have
(14:58):
phone connections there. So Itotally on useless, useless
areas because I just sit on theground and do not think I
couldn't sleep. Because alwaysyou expect something we slept?
Not on exam? Yes. Like, it justwe slept on the claws to the
(15:20):
ready, run away from house onthe ground. And I understood
that yes, it's complicated tohave to work for the victory
from Kiev for me make somepeople can do it. It's okay, but
I couldn't. And then I left toleave. And here I have several
(15:45):
direction to do somethinguseful.
Thom Pollard (15:48):
So that's, that's beautiful. Thank you for that
explanation. So you're right nowwhat? You're continuing your
work, if you will, in German, byby using your journalism
background to help getinformation out to the world.
Are you working in tandem withIgor and other people, too? Are
(16:12):
what are what are some of thethings that you're trying to do
now, in terms of to stayproductive one, but to help the
world see the real story?
Iryna Kabluchko (16:24):
Firstly, we start to work for our morning.
So again, we try to make peoplea little bit different
information, then use the justlearn them to live this new
reality. You know how to findjob in this condition? Where to
(16:44):
better to hide from bombardment?
I don't know how to find goodplace abroad, something like
that. It's first direction. It'slike my main job. Yes. But as
for front for the war, what wedo? I told you that we have this
one news stream now. And it's onUkrainian language. Sure, yes.
(17:10):
But a lot of people around theworld don't understand Ukrainian
language. Yes. As it's why we doother stream with Russian
language. And I and mycolleagues, we do, like dabbing
on there, we sit exactly hereand immediately to translate it
(17:35):
on Russian language. And you cansee the stream on YouTube, on
Russian and big skepticalskeptic about people from the
Russia from Pharisee. It's fromthe Russia. But I know that a
lot of people can understandRussian as a role like multi
(17:57):
country countries, other berjonKazakhstan, Armenia, Georgia,
and we want people whounderstand Russian, no to about
situation in Ukraine, becauseRussian propaganda is extremely
strong. And I see even what tothink sometimes my best friends
(18:21):
and understands that even theyare victim of this propaganda.
Thom Pollard (18:31):
Wow. So do you need help? Are you asking people
from the outside to assist youin these translations? Or to
reach a broader audience? Or isit online? Is there somewhere
people could actually go and seethis? What you're doing?
Iryna Kabluchko (18:49):
Ah, it's yes, it's three people can see it.
Yes, you can find it on YouTube.
For people who understand justRussian language don't
understand Ukrainian. Yes, wework on radio station. We have
special equipment for that. It'slike big team of TV anchors, who
(19:12):
can speak very fast andtranslate very fast. So we have
everything for that just askpeople to watch it. People who
want to know to
Thom Pollard (19:31):
wonderful so I'll ask you to send me that any
links or YouTube links or thechannel links? So I can share
those with the people who listento and see our conversation. And
then also, just kind of in a dayto day living kind of thing from
(19:54):
what what your life is like soyou're in Lviv is that where is
it okay for me to be say that orare you in a?
Iryna Kabluchko (20:02):
No, no, I'm okay. I'm not hide. I don't
hide.
Thom Pollard (20:07):
Okay, so do you see soldiers? Like, are there?
Are there Ukrainian soldiers inthe streets? Like, do you see
them? Because when right beforewe got on today, you said that
you could hear bombs, and therewas an air raid. And so when you
look outside, what what does itlook like from you know? Like,
(20:30):
is it just has your area beendevastated? Or is it does it
kind of look like a normal dayto day life or their soldiers
and, or their Russians? Or howdoes that look?
Iryna Kabluchko (20:43):
You know, in compared with Mariupol, for
example, or even Kiev Kharkiv.
It's totally differentatmosphere. But it's still
strange because we've acceptedmillions, millions, millions,
millions Ukrainian from otherparts of our country. statistics
that around 11 million peopleleft their houses in Ukraine
(21:10):
now. Maybe you heard about threemillions abroad. But inside
Ukraine, it's live in millions.
Yes, it's, it's really a lot.
And many people from vif theyreally don't understand what the
world is. They didn't see it,mostly. But they tried to do a
(21:32):
lot of things to help thisrefugees to organize a lot of
things to help our defenseforces. For example, my first
day here with my lovely friends,we did this cocktail Molotov ah,
productive cocktail. malata it'sto be honest, it's very nice
(21:54):
therapy. If you narrows to makea cocktail Molotow it helps a
lot.
Thom Pollard (22:04):
And so what did you do with it? Did you use it
or
Iryna Kabluchko (22:08):
No, we didn't use the be productive for our we
have territorial defense forces.
Yes, it's not army but it's veryclose to Army it's like people
who just want to defend citythey're not professional
military. So it's like SpecialForces and for them they don't
(22:30):
have really cool equipment likeour military has have and they
really need this cocktailmonitor because it's very useful
for tanks for example, you candestroy tank with that so you
want to do
Thom Pollard (22:52):
so you taught the viewers how to make the in here
in the United States Molotovcocktails you taught the people
how to make those so they coulddefend themselves if an attack
or a tank came near their home
Iryna Kabluchko (23:07):
you know i It's not that people do it for their
house No they just productiveand they give this Territorial
Defense Forces Wow big part abig part of this was brought
brought yes to key deliver it toKiev and other cities. Like here
(23:30):
is like the real V Yes. Yeah,make many things to organize.
Many things for for our army forrefugees for for that for
victory, because here it's moreor less calm, but at the same
time, relieved by the Vicebeautiful city. A lot of all the
(23:56):
buildings very romanticatmosphere. And it's extremely
strange when you walk forexample, on this streets,
romantic streets during thespring, and here's this terrible
air alert sound. It's likesomething it doesn't suit each
(24:20):
other. You understand? Sosometimes you feel so peaceful
here, but sometimes, almostdaily, I woke up not from my
alarm on my phone. I woke upfrom air alert, sometimes
several times per night. It'slike that. And this sound. It's
(24:42):
like something. It's our routinealready. And when I don't hear
it for a long time, I think Oh,something something wrong
wherever or alert.
Thom Pollard (24:55):
Wow. Okay, I don't want to take up too much. Your
time so I, if I could ask you,what would you like the people
outside of that region to knowlike, like a lot of people from
the United States will watchthis or listen to it. There's
people from all around theworld. But is there anything
that we could know? Or if peoplefeel like they would like to
(25:19):
help? What? What would that be?
Can you share that with us?
Iryna Kabluchko (25:25):
I want people know two things. Probably. I
think our president share a lotof things I want. Other people
know. So I will tell somethingmaybe President didn't tell
because it's from my ownexperience. Firstly, it's not
national conflict. And it'snever been like that. Because my
(25:48):
mother, I told you before abouther, she, she's part of
Ukrainian nation. She has aUkrainian passport. But she's
from Russia, her roots, Russian,and she almost can't tell speak
Ukrainian. She speaks Russian.
And all since she started tolive in Ukraine. She never had
(26:12):
any problem with Russianlanguage in Ukraine. She never
had any problem with currentnationality and Ukraine. And now
she lost her home. She in heat,her old age, she had big stress.
She so bombardment, and youunderstand she had problem from
(26:40):
Russian, not from Ukrainian. Soall propaganda of Russian, it's
not true at all, even oneperson. It's not true. And at
the same time, my father, he'sUkrainian, he's from Poltava.
It's a town in the center of hiscenter of Ukraine. And he leaves
(27:02):
for a long time in Russia. Andhe has Russian passport. He has
speak Ukrainian, but he hideUkrainian now. He started to be
fanatic. He like and supportPutin. And since this, the war
started, only one thing he toldme in message, please not to be
(27:24):
so aggressive in Facebook. Heeven didn't ask what happened is
me now. Because he supports thiswar. And a lot of people think
that Putin is problem, it's whatI want to say. program, not only
with Putin because millions,millions perience millions
(27:49):
people in Russia support thiswar. And if you remember what
happened in Georgia, Abkhazia,Moldova, trans, Austria, many,
many cases like that. It wasChenier first, the first Chilean
(28:10):
war. It was before Putin, and wehad very long and dramatic
history relation with Russia.
Might be you know about holidaymore when we didn't have bread
and people eat each other. Andit was Russian did Russia did
(28:31):
for us. So wasn't Putin Yes. Butit's already was like that. So I
don't know what wrong is this?
Russians, but they're like that.
Most people like that. Some areweak to to fight that but most
(28:52):
supported. It's, it's somethingI want people know abroad
because most people don'tunderstand it. I think about how
to Ukraine. I I just asked tosupport our army. Because what
we do now I want people tounderstand that they not just
(29:16):
protect Ukrainian land. I thinkit's the war psychopaths against
normal people. That's why allnormal people in the world
should support our army becausethey make it for all world or
(29:38):
normal world. Wow,
Thom Pollard (29:42):
thank you. That that is very well said I so
appreciate you telling me someof your story. And I hope and
would like to ask you if ifthere's this potential of doing
this again, soon, maybe in Arewe if you have the capability in
a week, or in 10 days, and justmaybe periodically, check in
(30:07):
with each other, and you cangive me updates.
Iryna Kabluchko (30:10):
Yeah, thank you for what you do. Thank you for
your interest. And thank you allpeople who will watch it. And
who wants to support Ukraine?
Now?
Thom Pollard (30:21):
I just actually have to ask you real quick when
I when Igor told me that you areinterested in having a
conversation with me, I went toyour Facebook page. And there is
a video on your Facebook pagethat is so surreal and shocking.
I cannot even fathom the wordsto put it but of the of the mass
(30:46):
grave being dug in the capitalcity and in those bags for 67
Ukraine's Ukrainians and I, thatbrought it so home to me and it
also made me realize howcompletely unprepared really, I
am to even have anyqualification to speak to
(31:09):
someone about this because Ireally know so little other than
that this is just a tragedy. Andit's, it's it's terrifying.
Iryna Kabluchko (31:19):
Yes, I would like if it's possible, you're so
this video, maybe it's Europeanbutcher, this place where
American journalist was killed?
I told you before. Yes. Andsituation in Memorial Eve, it's
even worse, because it'shundreds, hundreds, hundreds
(31:40):
people on the street. You know,when you need water, you go
outside to find some water andyou just see this bodies on the
street. It's now it's real. Andpeople like hostage hostages.
Yes, they they don't havechoice. They can't leave the
city now because it's blocked byRussian troops. I want it I want
(32:04):
to really people see it and knowit because again, I understand
Westbroek have very like, reachnormal life and you don't want
some may be Ukraine disturb youwith please give us the POM
(32:26):
protect our sky, no fly zone.
It's maybe annoyed some peoplebut if you understand reality,
you even think even one secondto support Ukraine.
Thom Pollard (32:43):
Irina, thank you so much for your time, stay
safe. And stay in touch and Iwill share with you when this is
completed. But be be well andknow that there are people who
do care, right, whatever littlethings that we can do. We will
try.
Iryna Kabluchko (33:04):
Okay, thank you so much. Have a nice day.
Thom Pollard (33:07):
You too. Bye. Bye now. Thank you for listening.
Please consider sharing thisepisode wherever you can. These
brave journalists have spoken tome to help stem the tide of
Disinformation and Propaganda.
When you share this episode withothers, you help tell the real
stories of the people ofUkraine. This is Thom Pollard.
(33:28):
Thank you
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