September 6, 2024 • 31 mins
In this episode, we dive deep into the challenges of remote work, focusing on loneliness and team effectiveness. Jean Bays is the Chief Human Resources Officer (CHRO) at Neat, a global video technology company. With 28 years of experience in HR, Jean brings a wealth of knowledge in managing diverse, international teams.
Jean shares innovative strategies that have helped Neat's global workforce thrive in a remote environment, including a surprisingly simple yet effective approach to time management.
In This Episode, You'll Learn:
- Why a 4-hour time management training became crucial for remote workers of all levels
- How technology advancements have improved remote meeting experiences
- The importance of "walking the shop floor" in HR, even in a virtual environment
- Strategies for combating loneliness in remote work, especially for those under 35
- Why encouraging voluntary work can significantly boost employee well-being
Quotable Moment:
"No matter if that was a senior manager or junior fellow, everyone had to finish a time management training to say, what keeps you sane and what keeps you on track." - Jean Bays
Practical Takeaway:
Implement a company-wide time management training focused on creating structure, setting boundaries, and encouraging social connections in remote work. This simple yet effective strategy can help employees across all levels manage their time better, reduce overwhelm, and maintain work-life balance in a remote setting.
Resources Mentioned:
- Neat's video technology solutions
- Gallup's 2024 State of the Global Workplace report
Connect With Our Guest:
To stay connected and continue the conversation, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.
And don't forget to check out our previous episodes for more tips and strategies to boost your workplace happiness. You can find them on your favorite podcast platform or on our website.
If you have any questions, comments, or topic suggestions for future episodes, please reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you!
Stay inspired, stay motivated, and stay happy at work!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Hamill (00:06):
Music, welcome back for another episode of the
happy at work podcast with LauraTessa and Michael.
Tessa Misiaszek (00:14):
Each week, we have thoughtful conversations
with leaders, founders andauthors about happiness at work.
Michael McCarthy (00:22):
Tune in each Thursday for a new conversation.
Enjoy the show.
Tessa Misiaszek (00:38):
Welcome to the happy at work podcast, I am so
excited that we are joined todayby Gene Bayes, the CHRO at a
company called neat, which we'regoing to learn more about today.
But before we jump into kind ofyour current work, we'd love to
hear more about your journey andwhat were some of the
experiences that brought you towhere you are today.
Jean Baez (01:00):
So I started, and first of all, it's, it's amazing
to be here. So I started mycareer in HR, doing an graduate
program at Deutsche Bank back inGermany, and that had the
wonderful concept of a rotate,rotation into different areas of
(01:22):
the business, and since then, Imean, this is 28 years ago, I
never left because it's a it's agreat passion to look after the
people in an organization, helpthem to grow being part of the
of the leadership team, definingthe strategy. And for two and a
(01:43):
half years, I'm honored to dothat for need. Um.
So before that, I worked forvarious companies, and recently
for medical device, which wasabsolutely phenomenal as well,
because the cause and there wasso much passion. So you can hear
it in my voice. For me,everything is about passion in
(02:06):
my in my job, and I'm happy tobe here. So good.
Laura Hamill (02:10):
So great for you to be here with us, Jean. So
what wonder if maybe you cantell us a little bit more about
neat what and what youspecifically do at meet. And I
know you've already kind of toldus a little bit about how
widespread the employee base is,so I'd love for you to just tell
us more.
Jean Baez (02:28):
So it's a global organization. Nearly 45% of our
workforce is based in the US,but all the rest of our meters
are spread around 26 countries.
So that's all in EMEA in APACAsia Park. So lots of cultures,
(02:48):
lots of lots of different workstyles. It's lots of lots of
diversity in our workforce andneed as such, started right
before the pandemic. So indecember 2019 it's a video tech
company who was actuallypartnering with zoom the
(03:14):
platform. Zoom because they havewonderful platform and wonderful
softwares and all of that, butthey wanted most perfect
hardware that is out there, andthe founding engineers or the
founding team got on the case.
(03:35):
And what can I say? I mean, Iknow I'm with Bs, but so now,
seeing the outcome and theproduct portfolio of hardware
and making it much more easierfor for companies to work with
remote workforce, where everyonecan contribute. Everyone is
(04:01):
playing a part, making thiswhole going on a zoom call and
working together, making thisreally a neat and we always call
it a very embarrassingly simpleway of working. So that's neat,
and we are growing. I justlooked at some statistics. So
(04:23):
this year we onboarded, and weare not at the end of the year,
but up until now, nearly 100employees, so it's growing
nicely. So yeah, this is wherewe are at the moment. So young
company, we all know what thatmeans when I wouldn't call it a
hot startup mess, but startup isalways very exciting. So my role
(04:49):
in needs, because that was partof your question, everything HR
related. But look, we are stillso hands on. I mean, I'm not an
engineer, okay? I could not fix.
For an engineering solution, butso in in my HR role, oh my god,
so pretty much doing everythingevery day. But I have a team, a
lovely team, so a global teamwho's supporting all of the
(05:13):
functions as HR businesspartners and the recruitment
functions Excellent.
Michael McCarthy (05:19):
Well, Jean, welcome to the show. And Tessa
and I teach the art of workplaceengagement at Harvard
professional development. And alot of our attendees are
actually managers in the field.
And because of covid, they werethrown into remote work, and
there was not an instructionmanual, they were just tossed in
there. And what we are startingto discover a few years into
(05:43):
doing this, there's a lot ofloneliness with remote work. And
I'm curious, could you justshare with our audience, what is
the loneliness about how big ofan issue is? Is it? Is it
generational? Tell us about theproblem, because later we're
going to try to find out what'sthe solution. So first of all,
Jean Baez (06:04):
is a it is a hot topic. And what I realized in
thinking about this as well isthere is no magic source. So I
would like to encourageeveryone, not only looking into
the generations, or what's thewhat's the age of your
(06:27):
workforce, looking as well intowhere are your people based? So
that could be, it's a culturalaspect as well. So what, what's
working in Asia, or when peoplefeel alone in Asia, that is
completely different from whatwe are seeing in the European
(06:50):
countries or in in the US. So Iwould say, and for, for covid, I
always work for, fororganizations where the big
sales force out there, so peoplewho used to work already in
their home offices going out toclients, and I faced back in the
(07:11):
days, from really, from prettymuch day, from one day to the
other, sales force that was keptin their homes really were not
able to go out. That was arather dramatic situation,
because the sales animalcharacteristic is not dealing
(07:32):
with that quite well. And Ithink these days and during
covid and as well, when we cameout of the of the lockdowns and
and all of that, what I wouldalways encourage managers to do,
it's it's the it's the simplefact of staying close to your
(07:54):
remote workforce, having reallyThe regular catch ups and not
only asking that, how are yourprojects going? How are your
numbers? What? What? What'swhat's on your plate for this
week, asking really the simplequestion, how are you doing? So,
(08:15):
how is it going? I encouragemanagers as well to to get a
feeling for the little signswhen people, for example, the
little signs when people stayoff camera or being late or
being unprepared because theyare working at home, they don't
(08:37):
have the the teams around themto encourage them, what to
motivate them. There are many,many little signs where a
manager actually can see thatsomething needs to be addressed,
actually not fixed. I mean, wecan speak about some of the
(08:59):
things, what I what I foundreally helpful in the past, but
first of all, it needs to beaddressed. So to conclude, no
magic swords. It's region byregion, country by country, or
generation by generation. Totaldifferent pictures we are
finding out there.
Tessa Misiaszek (09:20):
I really love Jean, what you just said about
all the little signs, because,again, when you're seeing
someone every single day in theoffice, you can, you can and you
see people in person. You cannotice, you know, when there's
kind of changes happening intheir behavior, when you can see
them, you know, interacting inthe in the kitchen or, you know,
(09:43):
interacting in the hallway,versus shutting their door in
their office and kind ofsecluding themselves a bit from
the rest of the team. But it'sharder in a remote workforce to
be able to identify those littlesigns and then add on a zoom
filter you can you, you know,obviously a lot of people are.
Are either not showing up oncamera, or there's literal
filters on so that you can seeperhaps some of the things that
(10:06):
that might the changes thatmight be going on behind the
scenes. And so I really lovethat, and I'd love for you if I
got asked a little bit moreabout the kind of cultural
differences that you see acrossremote workforces, especially
with multi a multinationalcompany, and your experience as
a chro with multiple companies,what are, what are those kind of
(10:29):
kinds of strategies that verydiverse teams, that have to work
across country boundaries andglobal borders, that are
connecting in different timezones, in a remote workforce,
what are some of the strategiesteams could employ to just
create more improved teameffectiveness and create more
synergy with the team?
Jean Baez (10:50):
So I would say a big factor, and I can give you a
very personal example from mywork life, but technology these
days is playing a big factorinto that how people feel
included in a team, being partcan make a contribution. So in
(11:13):
my golden example is when covidhit. Before that, I was flying
in and out of San Francisco. Iwas in this meeting room when I
had a presentation, or when wehad our meetings. I was in the
room. I could read faces. Icould see how people react to
(11:35):
sometimes my quirky English. Ordoes that really make sense? And
boom, then covid was there andback in the days. Of course, we
had video conferencing systemsin our offices, or stuff like
that, but I was the only onethen excluded sitting there
seeing these little tiny headsin the back of the meeting room,
(12:00):
and I was no longer feeling partof the show, so I felt
completely excluded. It was, ina way, not over drama here, but
it was intimidating for me tospeak up, because there were
people in the room I wasn't inthe room. So should I really
(12:20):
speak up? Does that make allthat or maybe I interrupt Now a
very important sideconversation. So technology
these days, and I don't want totoot around about needs, because
there are many amazingtechnology out there where you
(12:42):
have technology that the cameracan zoom in into, into people's
faces, that, for example, andthat's, that's, again, a very
little thing, but makes a big,big, huge difference. If you
remember three or four yearsago, most of the video tech.
(13:03):
Technology was set up when I saysomething and you say, ah,
that's interesting, my voicewould be cut, and then I would
have to start again to say so.
It was a constant interruption.
Now these days, when I'm sittinghere talking to you or talking
(13:24):
to my team in Oslo, it's aflawless conversation, because
the mics are no longer tickingoff. And I know there are some
psychologists here on the call,you will know from a
psychological effect how muchmore inclusive. This is when you
(13:44):
when you have a normalconversation, and no longer
Okay, now it's your turn, andnow you can say something so
people across the globe, in inin need, feel very, feel very
being part of projects, ofmeetings, because we provide
(14:11):
them with the right technology.
Is that, again, the magic sourceto face to face meeting? No,
it's not, absolutely not, but wehave to accept the fact that
there is a new way of working.
So, I mean, there is this issomething we only can grab on
(14:31):
and make it better for foreveryone, and make it a very
good experience for everyonewho's in this, yeah, that's my
answer.
Laura Hamill (14:43):
Yeah. That's really, that's really
insightful. I kind of forgotabout that. I remember that in
the beginning, right where itwas immediately you, you were
interrupted by anybody making alittle comment or a little
sound. And now we don't havethat so much, but there it's
interesting, because there stillis sort of a. Warm when we're on
video camera around not agreeingas much or not, like being more
(15:07):
interactive, right? There's thepause, and it does sort of make
you kind of question, Should Isay what I was going to say?
Because it's more of a thing,right? Like, it's more of a
discrete, separate personspeaking relative to a really
generative conversation. Soreally good insight that I
hadn't really even thoughtabout, of how that's changed
(15:27):
over time. So that's reallyinteresting. I'm curious your
thoughts gene, one of the thingsI'm always kind of thinking
about in my work on culture isthe balance of kind of
localization, because you were,you know, you were speaking to
how there are so manydifferences, right? There's
differences by country, there'sdifferences by generation, that
(15:49):
we have to really understandwhat's going on with all of
those differences, right? So thebalance of localization with
unification, right? Like, whatis it about what we're all doing
together that we should agreeon, or that we should have as
common and core, that we allshould kind of do consistently.
So I wonder if you have anythoughts on, you know, when you
(16:11):
think about this idea of peoplebeing isolated and remote, is
there anything that you know weshould be focusing on that
brings people together that wethat we emphasize, and how we
might balance that with all thedifferences that you were
speaking of. So
Jean Baez (16:28):
the first thing that comes to my mind, and that was
one of the first things Ithought, I thought about when,
when all the people were lockedin their homes and being remote
from one day to the other. And Ihope that answers your question,
but I was running back in thedays for all my managers, all my
(16:52):
people managers and as well,then rolling it out to all of
the workforce a simple timemanagement training. And that
was for everyone the same.
Because I tell you, I reallyremember the moment where I
thought, Gene, this is what weneed. We need to absolutely and
(17:12):
I worked within four hours orstuff like that, a simple time
management training module. Sobeing at home, and no matter how
old you are, no matter if youhave kids, if you have a dog, if
you take or if you're a carerfor your parents or your
grandparents or stuff like that,working at home, being remote,
(17:34):
not with your colleagues, nothaving this going on public
transport, into an office,getting prepared for your
working day, and all of that.
That is all overwhelming, and wecan all muddle this up into so
many different things, and thenwe are losing track, and then we
(17:55):
are getting overwhelmed beforethe day even starts. And so what
I said, no matter if that was asenior manager or Junior fellow,
stuff like that, everyone had tofinish a time management
training to say, what keeps yousane and what keeps you on
(18:17):
track, for all of us, is when weknow what we are doing, when we
know when we organize our day,when we are not just stumbling
from our bed in front of thecamera and then brushing our
teeth after the meeting all ofthat. I mean, it helped that I'm
really coming there with myGerman time management skills so
(18:41):
that that helped, amazing, butthat was really helpful for
keeping people organized and ontrack and not getting
overwhelmed and in that sentenceas well putting in there every
morning half an hour call yourfavorite colleague. Okay, just
(19:02):
you have a chat when you do forexample, for the managers, I
said, when you do your one onones, go out for a walk, go walk
and talk. It does not have to bethe camera all the time. So
believe it or not, that wasreally appreciated by everyone
to having this little tips andtricks. I even put in their
(19:26):
PlayStation time wherecolleagues played together. It's
not so big in the US, but overhere, it's like the football
FIFA. So they play ManchesterUnited, and you can do all of
this online and having thediscipline at the end of the
day, no matter how senior orjunior you are, to shut down
(19:50):
your laptop and prepare yourdinner and do not have the
laptop on your dinner kitchentable and just. Work away. So,
yeah, that was for allgenerations, for all seniority
levels, and it was muchappreciated. Yeah,
Laura Hamill (20:10):
that's so interesting, because when you
said time management, I waslike, oh, but there's so many
other messages you were sendingwith that, right? You were
sending have boundaries thatwork shouldn't be everything
that you're doing, connect withother people, have fun, right?
There were a lot of messagesthat sounded like you were
unifying people around just howhard the situation was and that
(20:35):
you kind of saw them as humanbeings, right? That was kind of
bigger than time management.
Tessa Misiaszek (20:40):
Can I also just add, to be honest with you,
Jean, I have had, we've hadmultiple conversations on this
podcast. I've had multipleconversations in my work and
doing research aroundstrategies, around remote
workplace. Not once have I everheard about you know, developing
a everyone has to participatetime management learning module
(21:04):
so that everyone can reallyfigure out how it's different to
manage time when you're workingremotely, at home versus in an
office. I have never heard thatyet. That makes so much sense to
me, and also, I love your Hey,if you're if you're having a
meeting, go for a walk and talkto your your your team, right?
(21:25):
Versus always having to put iton Zoom again. I think that part
I know, for me personally, partof what overwhelms me about
remote work is that it'sincredibly monotonous with Zoom
meeting after Zoom meeting afterZoom meeting. And hey, I've
personally had a very hard timeof creating boundaries with
meetings and doing timemanagement. I you know, usually
(21:50):
I'm doing my work at night or onthe weekends because I just have
nine meetings a day, and if Ileave any open time in my
calendar, it usually gets takenfor meetings. So anyway, I'm
gonna pass it to Michael for thenext question, but I just wanted
to say that was so brilliant,because I we've asked this
question a lot, and that's thefirst time I've ever heard it,
and it makes so much sense. Sothank you so
Michael McCarthy (22:12):
Jean. Two things, one is I did want to
repeat my the favorite, myfavorite thing that you
mentioned was calling a favoritecolleague during work, and the
number one retention toolevidence based is having a best
friend who works. So that's nota little thing. It's a big
thing. It's really important.
Because a lot of people don'twant to hear about the details
of our work, but our coworkerswould be the most interested.
(22:35):
But I wanted to ask you about achallenge that's happening in
the world where there is not ananswer yet, because we just
discovered this. The Gallup2024, state of the global
workplace recently came out thatone out of four remote workers
are lonely. Hybrid is about oneout of five, and those who are
(22:56):
on site, it's about 15% and thisis the first time since Gallup
has been collecting the datathat people under 35 are less
happy than people over 35 andI'm curious if you think the
lack of human interaction isplaying a role that We're not
(23:18):
seeing enough people, and ifthat's the case, what do how do
we help our remote workers, whoare very, very clear, I like my
remote work, and I want to keepit how do we, how do we take
care of both? And I'm justcurious if you have any thoughts
or theories or advice.
Jean Baez (23:37):
So first of all, I'm not surprised that it's
especially the age under 35because I so remember when I
started my career, and when Iwas under 35 and no kids, and
(23:58):
all of that, how much of astrong bond I always had with my
colleagues, and it was theFriday after work drinks, and it
was I met. I mean, I'm sorry I'mdivorced after 25 years, but I
met my ex husband to work, and Ithink I that was one of the
(24:20):
things I thought during covid,that my heart was bleeding for
this generation, how much theymiss out on this human
interaction and buildingfriendships and all of that so.
So first of all, I'm notsurprised, and I think that is
(24:41):
something we absolutely, all ofus in this industry, and we need
to find ways of making this abetter place for for for this
generation. So I can tell youwhat I'm strongly believe in. So
for. Of all in need, what wehave in place, and that, again,
(25:04):
is rolling into many, many, manyother aspects. We have a work
from anywhere policy, as long asit's not having taxable, tax
implications. I always say thatas a second but encouraging
people as well from differentcultures or who do not live
(25:24):
close to home any longer, orstuff like that, encouraging
people actually, maybe try to goback to their communities that
that's that's a fantastic offer.
So many meters and our companytake take up on so bring them
closer, back to the let's sayold friends, even. So not every,
(25:44):
not everything, is fixed bycompany, events or stuff like
that. So what is their privateenvironment? Are they sitting in
an apartment in New York, or canthey go back to Milwaukee and be
close to family and friends. Soworking from anywhere, strong
(26:06):
believer that this will bebecause hybrid, yes, but working
from home, if you are workingfrom home, in your little
apartment or close to yourfamily, does not really make a
difference. Second aspect, andthat's, again, a really small
thing, but what I encourageespecially our younger
(26:30):
workforce, the minute you seeyou have time during your work
week, or you can give any timego and do voluntary work, there
is nothing better for mentalhealth, for well being, than
helping other people. And look,I had so many people coming back
(26:52):
to me because they were like,Oh, should I really? Should I
not so many people coming backto me and I were like, Jean, it
was oh my god, I helped in ahomeless shelter, and I was
really sad to see but oh boy, Ifeel so good. I feel so good.
Thank you to give me theopportunity so we do have, as
(27:12):
well, in need, unlimited PTO, sodays for voluntary work, if that
fits in your work schedule.
Again, highly encouraged. Andthere you make friendships. So
there you make friendships withother people. I think we are
still at the beginning, and Ihope that people like us find
(27:38):
many, many solutions, or, Idon't know, get more ideas of
how can we make this better?
Yeah,
Michael McCarthy (27:48):
I love this, and I just want to emphasize for
our listeners that I had a greatopportunity of learning from the
father of positive psychology,Dr Martin Seligman, and what he
taught us was, the fastest wayto improve your mood is to an
act of kindness. And what'sreally interesting is, if you're
helping someone, let's sayopening the door for them, and
(28:11):
the other person is receivingthat kindness. They're going
through the door, the personthat held the door open feels
happier than the person that wasallowed to go through. So it's
almost paradoxical. But to yourpoint, the person who's helping
the homeless gets more joy andhappiness and satisfaction than
the homeless person who receivedwhatever help they were getting.
(28:33):
So volunteering absolutely worksas well as just looking for
opportunities to be kind andsmall kindnesses matter. Yeah,
yeah.
Tessa Misiaszek (28:44):
So,
Jean Baez (28:46):
just one little um.
So I live here in an area nextto a nursing home for elderly
people, and I do have a dog, agolden doodle. It's a white
golden doodle. She's She's notcoming to camera, because she
doesn't like it, but I in thepandemic, so I shaved her a
mohawk, and I painted it pink,and then going to the nursing
(29:10):
home, and just that they allcould have a little cuddle with
her. And they still speak aboutit. It's four years in, they
still say, Where's pretzel? Doesshe really have? Does she ever
had nicely done again? So Imean, amazing. Yeah, it made my
day for weeks. Well,
Tessa Misiaszek (29:34):
Jean, I have absolutely loved this
conversation. You have so much,such a wealth of knowledge, I
think, just not only because ofyour experience, but it sounds
like you've really experimentedand had fun and have been
creative and coming up withdifferent solutions for your
organization and your role. Iguess the last question I would
(29:55):
ask is any piece of advice youwould give to a future HR?
Leader, someone who might bestarting out in the HR field,
who I feel a little bitintimidated because of the way
the market is changing and allof the changes that are
happening in companies, and theimportance that HR plays and the
happiness of employees. So onepiece of advice you would give
(30:17):
to a future HR leader.
Jean Baez (30:20):
It's not a new advice. I'm sure you have heard
that 100 times, but go out andwalk the shop floor. I love that
advice. And again, so that iswhat all HR people and never
stop, never stop. And even on avery senior level, never stop
(30:40):
walk the shop floor. So yeah,that's my that's wonderful
Tessa Misiaszek (30:46):
advice. And honestly, it's really
interesting, because, gosh, wasit Michael, our second or third
podcast we did a few years agowith zafnar said the exact same
thing. He was the CEO of AstonMartin, and you're the second
one to have said it down two orthree years later. So I think
(31:06):
it's a great piece of advice. UmJean, this has been an amazing
conversation. Thank you so muchfor joining us, and we would
love to check in with yousometime in the future to see
how things are going. But, butthank you
Jean Baez (31:18):
absolutely. Thank you so much.
Music, welcome back for another episode of the
happy at work podcast with LauraTessa and Michael.
Tessa Misiaszek (00:14):
Each week, we have thoughtful conversations
with leaders, founders andauthors about happiness at work.
Michael McCarthy (00:22):
Tune in each Thursday for a new conversation.
Enjoy the show.
Tessa Misiaszek (00:38):
Welcome to the happy at work podcast, I am so
excited that we are joined todayby Gene Bayes, the CHRO at a
company called neat, which we'regoing to learn more about today.
But before we jump into kind ofyour current work, we'd love to
hear more about your journey andwhat were some of the
experiences that brought you towhere you are today.
Jean Baez (01:00):
So I started, and first of all, it's, it's amazing
to be here. So I started mycareer in HR, doing an graduate
program at Deutsche Bank back inGermany, and that had the
wonderful concept of a rotate,rotation into different areas of
(01:22):
the business, and since then, Imean, this is 28 years ago, I
never left because it's a it's agreat passion to look after the
people in an organization, helpthem to grow being part of the
of the leadership team, definingthe strategy. And for two and a
(01:43):
half years, I'm honored to dothat for need. Um.
So before that, I worked forvarious companies, and recently
for medical device, which wasabsolutely phenomenal as well,
because the cause and there wasso much passion. So you can hear
it in my voice. For me,everything is about passion in
(02:06):
my in my job, and I'm happy tobe here. So good.
Laura Hamill (02:10):
So great for you to be here with us, Jean. So
what wonder if maybe you cantell us a little bit more about
neat what and what youspecifically do at meet. And I
know you've already kind of toldus a little bit about how
widespread the employee base is,so I'd love for you to just tell
us more.
Jean Baez (02:28):
So it's a global organization. Nearly 45% of our
workforce is based in the US,but all the rest of our meters
are spread around 26 countries.
So that's all in EMEA in APACAsia Park. So lots of cultures,
(02:48):
lots of lots of different workstyles. It's lots of lots of
diversity in our workforce andneed as such, started right
before the pandemic. So indecember 2019 it's a video tech
company who was actuallypartnering with zoom the
(03:14):
platform. Zoom because they havewonderful platform and wonderful
softwares and all of that, butthey wanted most perfect
hardware that is out there, andthe founding engineers or the
founding team got on the case.
(03:35):
And what can I say? I mean, Iknow I'm with Bs, but so now,
seeing the outcome and theproduct portfolio of hardware
and making it much more easierfor for companies to work with
remote workforce, where everyonecan contribute. Everyone is
(04:01):
playing a part, making thiswhole going on a zoom call and
working together, making thisreally a neat and we always call
it a very embarrassingly simpleway of working. So that's neat,
and we are growing. I justlooked at some statistics. So
(04:23):
this year we onboarded, and weare not at the end of the year,
but up until now, nearly 100employees, so it's growing
nicely. So yeah, this is wherewe are at the moment. So young
company, we all know what thatmeans when I wouldn't call it a
hot startup mess, but startup isalways very exciting. So my role
(04:49):
in needs, because that was partof your question, everything HR
related. But look, we are stillso hands on. I mean, I'm not an
engineer, okay? I could not fix.
For an engineering solution, butso in in my HR role, oh my god,
so pretty much doing everythingevery day. But I have a team, a
lovely team, so a global teamwho's supporting all of the
(05:13):
functions as HR businesspartners and the recruitment
functions Excellent.
Michael McCarthy (05:19):
Well, Jean, welcome to the show. And Tessa
and I teach the art of workplaceengagement at Harvard
professional development. And alot of our attendees are
actually managers in the field.
And because of covid, they werethrown into remote work, and
there was not an instructionmanual, they were just tossed in
there. And what we are startingto discover a few years into
(05:43):
doing this, there's a lot ofloneliness with remote work. And
I'm curious, could you justshare with our audience, what is
the loneliness about how big ofan issue is? Is it? Is it
generational? Tell us about theproblem, because later we're
going to try to find out what'sthe solution. So first of all,
Jean Baez (06:04):
is a it is a hot topic. And what I realized in
thinking about this as well isthere is no magic source. So I
would like to encourageeveryone, not only looking into
the generations, or what's thewhat's the age of your
(06:27):
workforce, looking as well intowhere are your people based? So
that could be, it's a culturalaspect as well. So what, what's
working in Asia, or when peoplefeel alone in Asia, that is
completely different from whatwe are seeing in the European
(06:50):
countries or in in the US. So Iwould say, and for, for covid, I
always work for, fororganizations where the big
sales force out there, so peoplewho used to work already in
their home offices going out toclients, and I faced back in the
(07:11):
days, from really, from prettymuch day, from one day to the
other, sales force that was keptin their homes really were not
able to go out. That was arather dramatic situation,
because the sales animalcharacteristic is not dealing
(07:32):
with that quite well. And Ithink these days and during
covid and as well, when we cameout of the of the lockdowns and
and all of that, what I wouldalways encourage managers to do,
it's it's the it's the simplefact of staying close to your
(07:54):
remote workforce, having reallyThe regular catch ups and not
only asking that, how are yourprojects going? How are your
numbers? What? What? What'swhat's on your plate for this
week, asking really the simplequestion, how are you doing? So,
(08:15):
how is it going? I encouragemanagers as well to to get a
feeling for the little signswhen people, for example, the
little signs when people stayoff camera or being late or
being unprepared because theyare working at home, they don't
(08:37):
have the the teams around themto encourage them, what to
motivate them. There are many,many little signs where a
manager actually can see thatsomething needs to be addressed,
actually not fixed. I mean, wecan speak about some of the
(08:59):
things, what I what I foundreally helpful in the past, but
first of all, it needs to beaddressed. So to conclude, no
magic swords. It's region byregion, country by country, or
generation by generation. Totaldifferent pictures we are
finding out there.
Tessa Misiaszek (09:20):
I really love Jean, what you just said about
all the little signs, because,again, when you're seeing
someone every single day in theoffice, you can, you can and you
see people in person. You cannotice, you know, when there's
kind of changes happening intheir behavior, when you can see
them, you know, interacting inthe in the kitchen or, you know,
(09:43):
interacting in the hallway,versus shutting their door in
their office and kind ofsecluding themselves a bit from
the rest of the team. But it'sharder in a remote workforce to
be able to identify those littlesigns and then add on a zoom
filter you can you, you know,obviously a lot of people are.
Are either not showing up oncamera, or there's literal
filters on so that you can seeperhaps some of the things that
(10:06):
that might the changes thatmight be going on behind the
scenes. And so I really lovethat, and I'd love for you if I
got asked a little bit moreabout the kind of cultural
differences that you see acrossremote workforces, especially
with multi a multinationalcompany, and your experience as
a chro with multiple companies,what are, what are those kind of
(10:29):
kinds of strategies that verydiverse teams, that have to work
across country boundaries andglobal borders, that are
connecting in different timezones, in a remote workforce,
what are some of the strategiesteams could employ to just
create more improved teameffectiveness and create more
synergy with the team?
Jean Baez (10:50):
So I would say a big factor, and I can give you a
very personal example from mywork life, but technology these
days is playing a big factorinto that how people feel
included in a team, being partcan make a contribution. So in
(11:13):
my golden example is when covidhit. Before that, I was flying
in and out of San Francisco. Iwas in this meeting room when I
had a presentation, or when wehad our meetings. I was in the
room. I could read faces. Icould see how people react to
(11:35):
sometimes my quirky English. Ordoes that really make sense? And
boom, then covid was there andback in the days. Of course, we
had video conferencing systemsin our offices, or stuff like
that, but I was the only onethen excluded sitting there
seeing these little tiny headsin the back of the meeting room,
(12:00):
and I was no longer feeling partof the show, so I felt
completely excluded. It was, ina way, not over drama here, but
it was intimidating for me tospeak up, because there were
people in the room I wasn't inthe room. So should I really
(12:20):
speak up? Does that make allthat or maybe I interrupt Now a
very important sideconversation. So technology
these days, and I don't want totoot around about needs, because
there are many amazingtechnology out there where you
(12:42):
have technology that the cameracan zoom in into, into people's
faces, that, for example, andthat's, that's, again, a very
little thing, but makes a big,big, huge difference. If you
remember three or four yearsago, most of the video tech.
(13:03):
Technology was set up when I saysomething and you say, ah,
that's interesting, my voicewould be cut, and then I would
have to start again to say so.
It was a constant interruption.
Now these days, when I'm sittinghere talking to you or talking
(13:24):
to my team in Oslo, it's aflawless conversation, because
the mics are no longer tickingoff. And I know there are some
psychologists here on the call,you will know from a
psychological effect how muchmore inclusive. This is when you
(13:44):
when you have a normalconversation, and no longer
Okay, now it's your turn, andnow you can say something so
people across the globe, in inin need, feel very, feel very
being part of projects, ofmeetings, because we provide
(14:11):
them with the right technology.
Is that, again, the magic sourceto face to face meeting? No,
it's not, absolutely not, but wehave to accept the fact that
there is a new way of working.
So, I mean, there is this issomething we only can grab on
(14:31):
and make it better for foreveryone, and make it a very
good experience for everyonewho's in this, yeah, that's my
answer.
Laura Hamill (14:43):
Yeah. That's really, that's really
insightful. I kind of forgotabout that. I remember that in
the beginning, right where itwas immediately you, you were
interrupted by anybody making alittle comment or a little
sound. And now we don't havethat so much, but there it's
interesting, because there stillis sort of a. Warm when we're on
video camera around not agreeingas much or not, like being more
(15:07):
interactive, right? There's thepause, and it does sort of make
you kind of question, Should Isay what I was going to say?
Because it's more of a thing,right? Like, it's more of a
discrete, separate personspeaking relative to a really
generative conversation. Soreally good insight that I
hadn't really even thoughtabout, of how that's changed
(15:27):
over time. So that's reallyinteresting. I'm curious your
thoughts gene, one of the thingsI'm always kind of thinking
about in my work on culture isthe balance of kind of
localization, because you were,you know, you were speaking to
how there are so manydifferences, right? There's
differences by country, there'sdifferences by generation, that
(15:49):
we have to really understandwhat's going on with all of
those differences, right? So thebalance of localization with
unification, right? Like, whatis it about what we're all doing
together that we should agreeon, or that we should have as
common and core, that we allshould kind of do consistently.
So I wonder if you have anythoughts on, you know, when you
(16:11):
think about this idea of peoplebeing isolated and remote, is
there anything that you know weshould be focusing on that
brings people together that wethat we emphasize, and how we
might balance that with all thedifferences that you were
speaking of. So
Jean Baez (16:28):
the first thing that comes to my mind, and that was
one of the first things Ithought, I thought about when,
when all the people were lockedin their homes and being remote
from one day to the other. And Ihope that answers your question,
but I was running back in thedays for all my managers, all my
(16:52):
people managers and as well,then rolling it out to all of
the workforce a simple timemanagement training. And that
was for everyone the same.
Because I tell you, I reallyremember the moment where I
thought, Gene, this is what weneed. We need to absolutely and
(17:12):
I worked within four hours orstuff like that, a simple time
management training module. Sobeing at home, and no matter how
old you are, no matter if youhave kids, if you have a dog, if
you take or if you're a carerfor your parents or your
grandparents or stuff like that,working at home, being remote,
(17:34):
not with your colleagues, nothaving this going on public
transport, into an office,getting prepared for your
working day, and all of that.
That is all overwhelming, and wecan all muddle this up into so
many different things, and thenwe are losing track, and then we
(17:55):
are getting overwhelmed beforethe day even starts. And so what
I said, no matter if that was asenior manager or Junior fellow,
stuff like that, everyone had tofinish a time management
training to say, what keeps yousane and what keeps you on
(18:17):
track, for all of us, is when weknow what we are doing, when we
know when we organize our day,when we are not just stumbling
from our bed in front of thecamera and then brushing our
teeth after the meeting all ofthat. I mean, it helped that I'm
really coming there with myGerman time management skills so
(18:41):
that that helped, amazing, butthat was really helpful for
keeping people organized and ontrack and not getting
overwhelmed and in that sentenceas well putting in there every
morning half an hour call yourfavorite colleague. Okay, just
(19:02):
you have a chat when you do forexample, for the managers, I
said, when you do your one onones, go out for a walk, go walk
and talk. It does not have to bethe camera all the time. So
believe it or not, that wasreally appreciated by everyone
to having this little tips andtricks. I even put in their
(19:26):
PlayStation time wherecolleagues played together. It's
not so big in the US, but overhere, it's like the football
FIFA. So they play ManchesterUnited, and you can do all of
this online and having thediscipline at the end of the
day, no matter how senior orjunior you are, to shut down
(19:50):
your laptop and prepare yourdinner and do not have the
laptop on your dinner kitchentable and just. Work away. So,
yeah, that was for allgenerations, for all seniority
levels, and it was muchappreciated. Yeah,
Laura Hamill (20:10):
that's so interesting, because when you
said time management, I waslike, oh, but there's so many
other messages you were sendingwith that, right? You were
sending have boundaries thatwork shouldn't be everything
that you're doing, connect withother people, have fun, right?
There were a lot of messagesthat sounded like you were
unifying people around just howhard the situation was and that
(20:35):
you kind of saw them as humanbeings, right? That was kind of
bigger than time management.
Tessa Misiaszek (20:40):
Can I also just add, to be honest with you,
Jean, I have had, we've hadmultiple conversations on this
podcast. I've had multipleconversations in my work and
doing research aroundstrategies, around remote
workplace. Not once have I everheard about you know, developing
a everyone has to participatetime management learning module
(21:04):
so that everyone can reallyfigure out how it's different to
manage time when you're workingremotely, at home versus in an
office. I have never heard thatyet. That makes so much sense to
me, and also, I love your Hey,if you're if you're having a
meeting, go for a walk and talkto your your your team, right?
(21:25):
Versus always having to put iton Zoom again. I think that part
I know, for me personally, partof what overwhelms me about
remote work is that it'sincredibly monotonous with Zoom
meeting after Zoom meeting afterZoom meeting. And hey, I've
personally had a very hard timeof creating boundaries with
meetings and doing timemanagement. I you know, usually
(21:50):
I'm doing my work at night or onthe weekends because I just have
nine meetings a day, and if Ileave any open time in my
calendar, it usually gets takenfor meetings. So anyway, I'm
gonna pass it to Michael for thenext question, but I just wanted
to say that was so brilliant,because I we've asked this
question a lot, and that's thefirst time I've ever heard it,
and it makes so much sense. Sothank you so
Michael McCarthy (22:12):
Jean. Two things, one is I did want to
repeat my the favorite, myfavorite thing that you
mentioned was calling a favoritecolleague during work, and the
number one retention toolevidence based is having a best
friend who works. So that's nota little thing. It's a big
thing. It's really important.
Because a lot of people don'twant to hear about the details
of our work, but our coworkerswould be the most interested.
(22:35):
But I wanted to ask you about achallenge that's happening in
the world where there is not ananswer yet, because we just
discovered this. The Gallup2024, state of the global
workplace recently came out thatone out of four remote workers
are lonely. Hybrid is about oneout of five, and those who are
(22:56):
on site, it's about 15% and thisis the first time since Gallup
has been collecting the datathat people under 35 are less
happy than people over 35 andI'm curious if you think the
lack of human interaction isplaying a role that We're not
(23:18):
seeing enough people, and ifthat's the case, what do how do
we help our remote workers, whoare very, very clear, I like my
remote work, and I want to keepit how do we, how do we take
care of both? And I'm justcurious if you have any thoughts
or theories or advice.
Jean Baez (23:37):
So first of all, I'm not surprised that it's
especially the age under 35because I so remember when I
started my career, and when Iwas under 35 and no kids, and
(23:58):
all of that, how much of astrong bond I always had with my
colleagues, and it was theFriday after work drinks, and it
was I met. I mean, I'm sorry I'mdivorced after 25 years, but I
met my ex husband to work, and Ithink I that was one of the
(24:20):
things I thought during covid,that my heart was bleeding for
this generation, how much theymiss out on this human
interaction and buildingfriendships and all of that so.
So first of all, I'm notsurprised, and I think that is
(24:41):
something we absolutely, all ofus in this industry, and we need
to find ways of making this abetter place for for for this
generation. So I can tell youwhat I'm strongly believe in. So
for. Of all in need, what wehave in place, and that, again,
(25:04):
is rolling into many, many, manyother aspects. We have a work
from anywhere policy, as long asit's not having taxable, tax
implications. I always say thatas a second but encouraging
people as well from differentcultures or who do not live
(25:24):
close to home any longer, orstuff like that, encouraging
people actually, maybe try to goback to their communities that
that's that's a fantastic offer.
So many meters and our companytake take up on so bring them
closer, back to the let's sayold friends, even. So not every,
(25:44):
not everything, is fixed bycompany, events or stuff like
that. So what is their privateenvironment? Are they sitting in
an apartment in New York, or canthey go back to Milwaukee and be
close to family and friends. Soworking from anywhere, strong
(26:06):
believer that this will bebecause hybrid, yes, but working
from home, if you are workingfrom home, in your little
apartment or close to yourfamily, does not really make a
difference. Second aspect, andthat's, again, a really small
thing, but what I encourageespecially our younger
(26:30):
workforce, the minute you seeyou have time during your work
week, or you can give any timego and do voluntary work, there
is nothing better for mentalhealth, for well being, than
helping other people. And look,I had so many people coming back
(26:52):
to me because they were like,Oh, should I really? Should I
not so many people coming backto me and I were like, Jean, it
was oh my god, I helped in ahomeless shelter, and I was
really sad to see but oh boy, Ifeel so good. I feel so good.
Thank you to give me theopportunity so we do have, as
(27:12):
well, in need, unlimited PTO, sodays for voluntary work, if that
fits in your work schedule.
Again, highly encouraged. Andthere you make friendships. So
there you make friendships withother people. I think we are
still at the beginning, and Ihope that people like us find
(27:38):
many, many solutions, or, Idon't know, get more ideas of
how can we make this better?
Yeah,
Michael McCarthy (27:48):
I love this, and I just want to emphasize for
our listeners that I had a greatopportunity of learning from the
father of positive psychology,Dr Martin Seligman, and what he
taught us was, the fastest wayto improve your mood is to an
act of kindness. And what'sreally interesting is, if you're
helping someone, let's sayopening the door for them, and
(28:11):
the other person is receivingthat kindness. They're going
through the door, the personthat held the door open feels
happier than the person that wasallowed to go through. So it's
almost paradoxical. But to yourpoint, the person who's helping
the homeless gets more joy andhappiness and satisfaction than
the homeless person who receivedwhatever help they were getting.
(28:33):
So volunteering absolutely worksas well as just looking for
opportunities to be kind andsmall kindnesses matter. Yeah,
yeah.
Tessa Misiaszek (28:44):
So,
Jean Baez (28:46):
just one little um.
So I live here in an area nextto a nursing home for elderly
people, and I do have a dog, agolden doodle. It's a white
golden doodle. She's She's notcoming to camera, because she
doesn't like it, but I in thepandemic, so I shaved her a
mohawk, and I painted it pink,and then going to the nursing
(29:10):
home, and just that they allcould have a little cuddle with
her. And they still speak aboutit. It's four years in, they
still say, Where's pretzel? Doesshe really have? Does she ever
had nicely done again? So Imean, amazing. Yeah, it made my
day for weeks. Well,
Tessa Misiaszek (29:34):
Jean, I have absolutely loved this
conversation. You have so much,such a wealth of knowledge, I
think, just not only because ofyour experience, but it sounds
like you've really experimentedand had fun and have been
creative and coming up withdifferent solutions for your
organization and your role. Iguess the last question I would
(29:55):
ask is any piece of advice youwould give to a future HR?
Leader, someone who might bestarting out in the HR field,
who I feel a little bitintimidated because of the way
the market is changing and allof the changes that are
happening in companies, and theimportance that HR plays and the
happiness of employees. So onepiece of advice you would give
(30:17):
to a future HR leader.
Jean Baez (30:20):
It's not a new advice. I'm sure you have heard
that 100 times, but go out andwalk the shop floor. I love that
advice. And again, so that iswhat all HR people and never
stop, never stop. And even on avery senior level, never stop
(30:40):
walk the shop floor. So yeah,that's my that's wonderful
Tessa Misiaszek (30:46):
advice. And honestly, it's really
interesting, because, gosh, wasit Michael, our second or third
podcast we did a few years agowith zafnar said the exact same
thing. He was the CEO of AstonMartin, and you're the second
one to have said it down two orthree years later. So I think
(31:06):
it's a great piece of advice. UmJean, this has been an amazing
conversation. Thank you so muchfor joining us, and we would
love to check in with yousometime in the future to see
how things are going. But, butthank you
Jean Baez (31:18):
absolutely. Thank you so much.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com