February 24, 2022 • 58 mins
Marissa chats with Lillie Lainoff about her debut YA novel - ONE FOR ALL - as well as some great tips for researching for historical fiction, such as using knowledgeable consultants and going beyond documents to also referencing objects and artifacts; writing a protagonist with a disability or chronic illness, and the challenges posed by maintaining the authenticity of that illness while keeping the plot moving how you want it to; the universally acknowledged truth that book deadlines always seem to coincide with real-life deadlines (why is that??); plus lots of self-care talk, including finding the life balance that works for you (and ignoring advice that doesn't), knowing that asking for help does not make you - or your characters! - weak, asking for a deadline extension when you need it, and allowing yourself to be vulnerable on the page.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, and welcome to the happy writer.
This is a podcast that aims tobring readers, more books to
enjoy and to help authors findmore joy in their writing.
I am your host, Mari Meyer.
Thank you for joining me.
Uh, there was like a ton ofstuff making me happy this week.
Honestly, guys, this is a kindaa big week for me.
(00:32):
Um, we're recording this quite abit in advance, um, because I
didn't want it to intrude on myvacation plans, but as of this
recording, um, about to turn incursed my next book, that's
coming out in November, I've gotlike three more chapters to
write and it is due in just acouple of days, so, oh, it will
(00:54):
feel so good to have it turnedin.
Of course I'm gonna be runningmy half marathon here in a week
in Disney world.
I think I already talked aboutthat before, but it's like
taking over my life right now.
Those two things are pretty muchall I can think about cursed and
Disney world.
And then on top of that in, Ithink it was in our last
(01:15):
episode, I talked about howactually it might have been two
episodes ago.
I don't know my schedule's alloff.
Um, I have writer brain rightnow, I think.
Um, but I talked about how wefinally got to announce this
project that I was working onlast fall that I am so, so
excited for.
Um, so just in case you missedthat announcement, we are going
(01:39):
to be releasing a brand newlunar Chronicles novel.
It is coming out in ebook onlyon March 15th to coincide with
the release of the cinder tenureanniversary.
It is called Cinder's adventure.
Get me to the wedding.
So yeah, there's a wedding, butmore than that, it is an
(02:02):
interactive story experie, whichmeans you, the readers get to
guide cider down her path andmake her choices for her and see
where it takes you in the story.
And what was really fun for mewriting this is that as cider
goes off on these differentpathways, you know, she kind of
falls down the rabbit hole, soto speak and comes in contact
(02:27):
with like every character I'veever written just about.
Um, so there's the renegadescharacters, the heartless
characters, they're all inthere.
It is a truly wacky silly story,but it was just so much fun to
write.
So that's coming out on March15th, which I think by the time
this at episode goes up is likenext week.
(02:48):
That is soon.
I can't believe it.
Uh, it is available forpre-order.
I really hope you will check itout.
Um, also just as a, an FYI, I amgonna be donating all of my
royalties from that project tofirst book, which is one of my
favorite literacy basedorganizations.
So yay.
(03:09):
So much exciting thingshappening.
And of course now I'm allbreathless, cuz I am like super,
super excited talking about thisstuff, but of course I so happy
to be talking to today's guest.
She holds a bachelor's inEnglish from Yale university and
is currently getting hermaster's degree in creative
writing pros fiction from theuniversity of east Anea.
(03:33):
Her work has been featured inthe LA review, the Washington
post among others.
And she is the founder ofdisabled kid lit writers.
She's also a competitive fencerand fencing coach, her debut by
novel one for all comes outtomorrow on March 8th, please
welcome Lily layoff.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Thank you so much for joining me.
Um, I'm just gonna start out bysaying that I loved this book
all capitals.
I can't wait to talk about itand I can't wait to recommend it
to everyone who loves reallykick butt female characters,
sword fighting in likehistorical Paris.
It's all, all the things I'veever wanted.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh yes.
Oh, there's a reason why I likecalling the book sisterhood of
the stab stab.
And I think that you justencapsulated everything.
I like the sisterhood of thestab stab is
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I love it.
It's a super, super fun story.
Um, it, it truly was likeexactly the story that I wanted
to be reading this week.
So thank you.
And congratulations for thelaunch of your debut novel.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I'm feel it's it's exciting.
Uh, it's this strange, surrealfeeling of the manifestation of
my childhood dream, cuz I'vealways wanted to be an author.
So it's, it's very strange tofinally have this hardcover book
that has my name on it.
Uh, it's also incrediblyexciting.
(05:16):
Uh, I'm already getting a lot of, um, messages and letters from
readers and early readers who,um, have really, really, um, who
one for all has really resonatedwith.
And it's so it's exciting.
It's nerve wracking, but it'salso incredibly rewarding and
(05:36):
I'm just really thankful, uh,that this day is finally
approaching.
I
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It's finally approaching it's almost here.
It is so exciting.
Um, and, and that is a perfect Sinto the first thing that I ask
all of our guests.
Um, you mentioned that this wasa childhood dream of yours.
Uh, so I love to know yourorigin story as a writer.
How did it go from being achildhood dream to now having
(06:07):
your name on a book cover?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So I knew that I wanted to be a writer since
around when I was five yearsold, old, and I don't think I
really knew what the concept ofan author was.
At least I really don't thinkfive year old Lily did, but, uh,
I knew that I wanted to be theperson who created the stories
(06:31):
and the books that I read andthat were read to me when I was
little.
So I proceeded to become thatgirl and that girl being the one
who has a notebook underneathone arm and a book underneath
the other.
And that's how she walks aroundfor, I mean, practically my
entire childhood.
And whenever anybody asked mewhat I was going to be, when I
(06:52):
grew up, I said, I'm gonna be awriter.
And, uh, it, you know, it,people thought it was very sweet
and very precocious.
And then they realized that, uh,my answer remained the same into
my, you know, into being ateenager and into being an
adult.
Oh, okay, well maybe she'sactually going to do this.
Uh, so I, uh, did a lot of, youknow, writing summer camps when
(07:19):
I was a teenager.
Uh, the Scholastic art andwriting awards was a huge, uh,
just a huge push for me.
And, uh, their recognition wasreally helpful and getting me,
uh, kick started in terms of mywriting career.
Uh, I started writing a few opwhen I was in college and those
(07:41):
are published.
So I was figuring out how tonavigate writing fiction and
nonfiction.
And, uh, uh, I taught myself howto, uh, query agents on my twin
Excel bed in my dorm room, incollege with the agent directory
, uh, the printed out onehighlighting names and seeing
(08:04):
who represented ye, which Ithink is very, it's very
different for authors now.
Um, but, uh, I, I ended upfinding representation, um, and
a few different books later anda very long time on submission
later.
Uh, my book is actually a book.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So this was not the book that got you, your agent.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Oh, no, no.
Um, so I don't really know if wecan call the first book.
I wrote a novel because I was 12and it really wasn't, it's, it's
going to remain in the drawer,locked away for the rest of my
life.
Nobody will ever read this, but,um, I wrote, I think what I
(08:57):
would consider my first realnovel when I was in high school
and I finished it while I was incollege and I taught myself, um,
how to query to query thatnovel.
And I got a little bit ofinterest, but not a lot.
Uh, but the, the good thingabout it was that I, I had
learned how to query properly bydoing that.
(09:20):
So when I wrote my next novel, Iknew how I, how to write the
query letter.
I knew which agents I wanted toquery.
So when I receivedrepresentation, that process was
pretty quick.
Uh, and then I was on submissionwith that novel for two years.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Oh,
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Wow.
And that novel, uh, I don't, Ihate the word die.
I, I hate the term died onsubmission because to me, the
book still lives on.
I'd love to see it published oneday, but while I was on
submission, I was work on onefor all.
Um, and I went on some issuewith one for all, I think in,
(10:04):
gosh, would've been the end of2018.
Uh, yeah, the end of 2018.
And I was on submission with onefor all for a year.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So, I mean, take me through the day that your agent
called you up and was like, Iknow it's been a year, but guess
what?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Oh, oh.
So I think that, uh, we had, I,I didn't really have that exact
call because, uh, to the dismayof my agent, I'm in incre I'm,
you know, the positive,optimistic side who likes to say
I'm proactive.
The negative side of me likes tosay, you're a little bit, Nu
(10:45):
Louis
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Say to be a little bit Nu.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So I, I would, you know, her say, Hey, what's going
on?
Do we know what's?
Is anybody liking it or readingit?
And, um, my editor, Melissawarden had emailed us saying,
Hey, I really love this.
I'm not finished yet, but canyou send me some more
information and materials?
(11:10):
So we had a feeling that maybethis was going to be it.
And I knew that she was takingit to acquisitions.
And that day was the moststressful day of my entire life,
because I knew that acquisitionswas ha the meeting was happening
at some point during that day.
But I didn't know when, so I,uh, was staying with a family
(11:35):
friend and, oh, poor.
I, I feel so bad for them.
Cause I had put up with me justpacing the entire day, trying to
okay.
Well, okay.
Well maybe it's a lunch meetingand then after lunch, okay.
Maybe it's not a lunch meetingand the email slash call for my
agent came in, I wanna sayaround 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM.
(11:58):
And I just burst into tears.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I also burst into tears.
I actually, I remember likegetting the call in the morning
from my agent and then I liketotally held it together for
like the entire day till myhusband got home from work.
And like the moment that hewalked in the door, just like
tears kiss came, floodingforward, all the emotion.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh gosh.
That's so impressive that youmanaged to hold it together for
an entire day though.
Yeah.
Cause that's huge news.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh gosh.
Such, such an incredible moment.
Um, okay.
Well, I am so happy that thebook found its editor found its
home is now coming out, uh, forpeople to read for me to read.
Uh, why don't you tell listenerswhat is one for all about?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Okay.
Uh, so one for all, uh, is agender event reimagining of the
three Musk of tears in which agirl with a chronic illness and
that chronic illness is postalorthostatic tachycardia syndrome
, um, trains as a MUE anduncovers secrets, sisterhood,
and self love.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
That was a very succinct I Here's my elevator
pitch.
Um, okay.
So the moment that I heard aboutthis book, gender bend three
Musketeers, I was like, I will,I would like to read that email
author, ask for podcastimmediately.
(13:29):
Um, I love the three Musketeers.
Uh, I love anything to do withyou Paris in this time period.
And then hearing that we'regonna have females in the lead
roles.
Like it's just such a greatconcept.
Um, so I am curious, Cause Ialso know that you're a fencer,
(13:52):
so, and I wanna talk aboutfencing as well for you.
What came first?
The interest in fencing or theinterest in the three
Musketeers?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Oh, definitely the interest in fencing.
Um, I remember I was at a summercamp for, I think it was for
art, a, an art summer camp ofsome sort.
And they were bringing in peoplewho, um, had different
professions each day.
And for some reason, one daythey brought in a fencer and
(14:24):
this is strange because there'smaybe five professional fencers
in the entire world.
It's not a professional support.
You don't make money ASR.
So I don't know how or why theycoordinated it like that.
But this woman came in and shewas talking about fencing and I
(14:44):
was just looking up at her and Iremember, oh my gosh, she's so
cool.
And all my favorite childhoodmovies were Mulan and the
princess bride was, oh my gosh,I want to do that.
I need to do that.
And at that point I had prettymuch tried every single sport
known in existence.
I tried swimming, soccer,basketball, track, and field
(15:06):
skating, horseback riding, uh,golf, pretty much everything
because I wasn't a verycoordinated child.
And my parents thought, yes,let's get li into sports.
She will be less clumsy.
And uh, none of that reallyworked.
However, it's verycounterintuitive.
(15:26):
Yes.
Came home that day.
Mom, I wanna do the sportbecause I want to hit people
with swords.
And she said, okay.
So, uh, I joined with a friendand I was the only girl in my
class and I think it was maybe aclass of 12.
(15:46):
So it was me and 11 little boyswhen I was eight or nine years
old.
And I really loved the sport.
Somehow it was a sport that Iwas good at, which was a new
thing for me.
And I knew that I wanted to getto the point where I could
compete.
So I switched to and club.
So I could be in a class withother girls because at the
(16:10):
national competitive level offencing, there's well'em and
fencing.
And there's men fencing at theregional level.
There's mixed events.
But, uh, for the events that Iknew that I wanted to
participate in at the nationallevel, I knew that I had to
practice fencing other girls andI switched fencing clubs.
And that was when, during thesummer fencing camps, we started
(16:33):
watching movies like the man inthe iron mask or the three muske
tears.
And that's when I first reallystarted to love the three muske
tears and the storytelling andthis slightly off slightly
fantastical version of Paristhat some that is historical,
but it's also not, there'ssomething off about it.
(16:54):
There's something dark.
Uh, and I loved all the fencingthat being said, I was also
taken aback by where are all thegirls with swords?
Where are all the women withswords?
This is strange.
And, uh, as I grew up, Irealized that, you know, the
three Musketeers, um,represented to a lot of people,
(17:17):
this very specific type ofmasculinity in term.
And what I mean by that is, islike this type of masculinity
that is equivalent to, you know,squash, buckling and, uh,
sleeping with lots of women andgetting into lots of, um, doing
lots of crimes in, in the nameof the king, but really how are
(17:39):
you getting away with stuff likethat?
No.
Uh, and I, when, uh, I wasthinking about starting to write
one for all, I thought, wouldn'tit be cool if I took my favorite
parts of the three Musketeers,which is of course the 10 saying
, and the elements ofbrotherhood and fraternity and
(18:01):
this really profound sense ofloyalty.
Uh, and what if I did that withgirls?
And what if I did that withwomen?
Because I didn't have anystories like that when I was
growing up.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I love it.
No, I completely agree.
I think that the world wasmissing this and I'm so happy
that it's now here.
I want everyone to go read it.
Um, if they have any interest inthis sort of thing, I love like
all the things you're talkingabout, the swash and the Debre
attitude and all of that, butseeing it now for women, it's
just, it's really fun.
(18:35):
And like, we've waited too longfor this.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So, so you, you get the idea, you're gonna do a, a
kind of feminist retelling ofthree Musks.
What was the research processlike?
How much were you drawing on theoriginal source material?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Okay.
So, um, the research wasintense.
Uh, I have a bookmark file tabon my laptop that is just full
with J store articles and blogposts and videos on YouTube of
(19:16):
reenactments of court videos.
So I could correctly describehow people place their arms and
hands at different points duringthe dance.
Um, I also built upon, I startedtaking French when I was in
first grade and I studied Frenchall the way through elementary,
(19:39):
middle, and high school, andthen through half of college.
So I was, I was definitelyfamiliar with the language and,
uh, a lot of those courses alsoincorporated cultural elements.
So I had a lot of the books thatI needed.
I had a lot of, I knew where tofind the resources that I
needed.
(19:59):
So it, it was the mixture ofusing the knowledge that I
already had over the many yearsof study and then also doing my
own research.
And I was very, very low luckyto be doing part of my research
while I was still in undergrad.
So I had access to a lot ofthose, um, scholar, article
(20:20):
websites for free.
So, um, I was able to, you know,look up articles about how the
Parisian ports are laid out andwhat they actually looked like.
Or I, um, you know, what kindsof fabrics specifically were, uh
, dresses made out of, for younggirls versus girls versus women
(20:43):
and how, uh, women used to, uh,cut costs, but also try to mimic
pearls, which is what the, oneof my favorite fun facts that I
learned is about how, um,imitation pearls were made out
of glass beads and ground down,um, fish, um, fish skills
(21:06):
interesting.
And, uh, they and a ammonium.
And then they would pour thatmaterial into a glass bead and
then have it coat the inside andthen fill the rest with wax.
And from the outside, it lookedlike a Pearl.
So all these women we're goingaround this kind of fish scale,
(21:29):
necklaces that to the world booklike pearls.
So it was a, a lot of those fundetails that don't make it into
the book
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I was gonna ask.
Cause I like, I don't rememberthis detail.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Oh no, no.
I could write so many books.
I would love to write more, onemore books in the one for all
universe.
Um, just so I could use all theresearch that I learned.
Oh, cuz it's all sitting on mycomputer.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
No, that is one of the things about research.
Um, I, I also, I'm a researchfan.
I love doing it.
I get really excited about allof the just weird quirky detail
that you pick up when you'rereading about, you know,
different, you know, places ortime periods, what have you.
And yet what actually makes itinto the book is so small
(22:19):
compared to like this hugeamount of information that you
have gathered.
And there's always a part of methat just like, but, but there's
more cool stuff like can't I fitit in it's I I'm so frustrated
by that sometimes.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah.
Me, me too, me too one for allused to be a lot longer.
I tried to fit it in.
I couldn't,
Speaker 1 (22:41):
No, I, I mean, it pays off though.
The book, I mean, it was one ofthose books that was very
immersive and I, I just love allof the little lush details, the,
you know, etiquette of highsociety and the clothing and the
architecture and it, it reallywas one of those books that just
(23:02):
puts you there.
Um, so it paid off your researchworked.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Thank you so much.
No, that it it's nice to hearthat.
Especially after all, like Isaid, all the hours of, uh,
watching the, the YouTube videosand pressing play and then pause
and then play and then pause.
So I could map out the armmovements at every single second
of the dancing.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Oh my gosh.
I, I, I get it.
I've been there.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So I always feel like writing, like as a reader, I
love historical fiction, um,largely in part, because it does
just put you in this time andplace, um, as a re excuse me, as
a writer, I find it veryintimidating.
Like for me, even writing afantasy world that is, you know,
loosely inspired by history, Ijust get so worried about what
(23:56):
if I get something wrong?
What if I miss something or, or,or mess something up and
readers, notice it for you?
Like, or what would you say tosomeone who maybe has an idea
they wanna try their hand athistorical fiction, but they're
afraid of getting somethingwrong?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, I think that, I mean, I we've, we've talked
about already, but researchreally is so important.
Um, so something else that wasreally important for me was I
had a, um, consultant, um, Elleper whose own book is coming out
soon.
I believe so everybody shouldcheck that out.
(24:37):
Um, but she, uh, is an expert ofthat specific of one for all
specific time period and inFrance.
Uh, so she went through one forall and told me, uh, I'm not
sure about this.
Uh, I'm not sure about this orare we sure that this timing
(24:59):
would've worked, uh, you know,with me doing math, if it takes
a carriage this long to go onemile, how long would it take for
Tanya from Lu to reach Paris?
I know I haven't done math likethat since I was in high school.
So, uh, she helped me a lot justto pick up on things that maybe
(25:22):
I hadn't noticed because I, I'mnot a historian.
Uh, and that was incrediblyhelpful.
I also had some early readerswho by chance were fluent French
speakers.
So they would also say, uh, youused the wrong, uh, tense here,
which was helpful.
(25:44):
Um, but I guess at the end ofthe day, it's a little bit
different, like you said, forwriting historical fantasy.
And, and I don't consider onefor all straight historical
fiction because it isn't, I, Idid want to pay ho homage duas,
uh, and how he created this altfantastical version of Paris.
(26:06):
So I fudged some detailsspecifically to mimic what he
did in the three muske tears.
Uh, so one of the, I think theimportant thing for me was what
I wanted to be able to say was,okay, I have done all the
research I possibly can.
(26:27):
And if there is something inincorrect in the book, or I've
gotten it wrong, that's aspecific choice that I've made.
Mm.
Uh, I didn't want it to bebecause I missed something.
And that's probably not thehealthiest way of doing research
and writing historical fictionbecause we're humans, we're
(26:49):
flawed.
We're not going to be perfectall the time.
We're going to miss things.
But, uh, research really is justsuper important and also
researching in ways that youmight not expect research, uh,
via, uh, objects that aren'tnecessarily documents.
So if you can go to museums and,and, and COVID, it's difficult,
(27:12):
but, um, there are lots ofmuseums that have exhibits
online.
Now, if you can look at, um,artifacts from those time
periods, so drag and, uh, tablesand mantle pieces, and anything
from history tells a story.
(27:34):
So you can find out so muchabout the historical time
period, just based on the kindof stitches they were using in
their clothing and how they madeclothing.
So it's about coming at theresearch from multiple different
sides.
So not just the documents, notjust the language, but also the
(27:55):
actual physical objects.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I love that you were speaking my language, the hands
on like primary source type ofresearch is my favorite.
And it really, it, it, it makesa difference to the writing you
will find and see and noticedetails that like this, this
scholar is probably not gonnaput into their writing, um, so
(28:22):
much great advice.
Thank you.
Um, I wanna talk about our maincharacter, Tanya, um, because
one of the things that is sopowerful about this book is that
you have taken, you know, thisvery well known story, the three
Musketeers, and like you weretalking about before, there was
(28:43):
just this, you know,masculinity.
And like, one of the things thatwe, I think love about the three
Musketeers is that they almosthave this like invincible aspect
to them.
Like they, you know, they can'tbe harmed, they can't lose.
And you not only have you putgirls into these roles, um, but
(29:04):
you've also given us a femalelead who have as a disability
who is dealing with chronicillness.
Um, and so like, there's so manypeople in her world who see her
as weak and, and frail andvulnerable, and it really kind
of turns this whole idea on itshead.
Uh, so talk to me a little bitabout what inspired her, what,
(29:25):
what, where this come from, uh,and maybe what were some of the
challenges, the uniquechallenges that, that presented
for the story,
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Right.
Uh, so Tanya, uh, and herexperience with pots is directly
experienced with my experiencewith pots.
Um, because when I was ateenager and I was diagnosed in
when I was 14, uh, so right atthe beginning of high school, I
didn't have any books aboutcharacters with pots.
(29:55):
And to be clear, I mean, as faras we know, one for all is the
first trip initially publishedbook by a major publisher with a
main character with plots.
So, um, teenage will is finallygetting her book.
Uh, but, um, I had initiallystarted writing one for all.
Um, and I didn't in my mindimagine Tonya as having plots
(30:18):
and after a paragraph ofwriting, it just felt wrong.
And I realized that was becauseI really wanted to write about
fencing the way that I fence andthe way that I fence is
inextricable from my experiencewith pots.
Because I mean, when you have acondition that causes dizziness
(30:39):
and fainting and blurred visionand headaches amongst other
symptoms, fencing is going to beaffected.
So I wanted to be able to writeabout the different ways that
she learns to fence with pots.
Um, and slowly that startedturning into me being able to
(31:01):
write about, um, a narrativeabout internalized ableism and
the way that people view her andhow she learns to love herself,
which, um, while it is in ahistorical setting, it's very
much, I think, um, it, it veryclearly maps onto a modern day
(31:24):
lens in terms of these were allthings that I was thinking about
myself when I was a teenager.
Um, I was worried that nobodywould want to be friends with a
sick girl.
I was, you know, I had a bestfriend who ghosted me after I,
you know, couldn't really hangout anymore, you know, be fun.
(31:44):
Um, I was really worried aboutguys not being entrusted in me
once they figured out that I wassick.
So I wanted to put all of thatinto Tanya and to speak to your
last point about, you know, someof the challenges of writing
about that.
Um, it was difficult in the waythat pouring her soul onto the
(32:06):
page is difficult because Tanyais not me, but she's definitely
part of me.
So because there is so much ofme on the page, it was reopening
old wounds that had never reallyhealed over properly.
I, and giving them the chance tostart to heal.
(32:28):
So it was at a process ofextreme vulnerability, which to
be fair.
I think that anytime an authorputs a novel into the world, it
is an extreme, activevulnerability, but for one, for
all, it had so much, it has somuch of me in it.
So that required a lot ofvulnerability.
(32:50):
And I think that, um, I was verylucky in terms of my age and,
and my editor, because, uh,there were ti, there were times,
and this was probably probablyone of the other difficult
elements is that, um, sometimesthe very clear way that you need
to change the plot or a plotpoint or how you're
(33:11):
transitioning from one scene tothe next isn't possible because
of Tanya's chronic illness.
For example, there's a point atthe beginning of the book when
her house is broken into it'sthe opening scene.
Um, and my agent had suggestedthat it needed to be closer in
time period, to, uh, the act,the beginning of, um, the main
(33:39):
story of one for all as, becausethe chapter one kind of serves
as a, as a frame.
And I said, actually, that, thatcan't really work because if
Tanya had passed out and washealing super sick, just a few
days ago, she's not gonna be ina position where she convinced
(34:02):
the next day or two days later,she's not going to, she's
clearly in the middle of a potsflare, you know, a chronic
illness flare.
She's not gonna be able to getup and start the day.
So it was a lot of, um,thinking, okay, well, how do we,
uh, maintain the authenticitywhile also, while also making
(34:30):
sure that the craft is where itneeds to be, and that the plot
makes sense and that all thoseseeing transitions work.
So it, my, my process, it was,it was very collaborative.
And again, like I said, I'm verylucky with my, with my agent,
Jennifer Wells and my editor,Melissa Warren, because I would
tell them something and say,Hey, this actually doesn't work
(34:53):
because of X, Y, and Z.
And they would go, okay, let'stry to think of something else
that would work.
They didn't try to push me onit, or because they knew that it
would end up creating anarrative that didn't feel
authentic.
And at the end of the day, Idon't think would've been as
successful.
Um, yeah, as one for all is.
So, uh, I think I wrote maybe21st chapters.
(35:16):
I know they stopped countingaround 12, but, um, we tried so
many different things in termsof how to work around that scene
, transition on how to makethings feel immediate.
Um, and I think it ended upsuccessful.
Uh, so yes.
So I think that, uh, the biggestdifficulties in, uh, were, were
(35:41):
in terms of the, um, one openingmyself up and allowing myself to
be vulnerable on the page andtwo, uh, finding ways to edit
and make sure the craft ismaintained while also
maintaining authenticity.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I think it'sabsolutely successful.
Um, and I'm really curious, cuzI found in my experience that,
you know, sometimes a book willpose a challenge and you're at
first, not sure.
Well, how am I gonna, you know,get this to work?
How am I gonna fill this plothole?
How am I gonna make thisauthentic, but also do what I'm
(36:19):
trying to do, blah, blah, blah,whatever the problem is.
And for me, I think a lot oftimes when we're kind of forced
to move past, you know, our, ourfirst idea, our second idea, our
12th idea for how to do this andlike keep pushing it and keep
brainstorming and keep lookingfor solutions.
(36:41):
But then when we finally land onsomething that works, it's like
a hundred times better than whatwe'd originally tried to do.
Did you kind of have that sameexperience as well?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I think so, but also I was just so relieved at that
point.
That thank goodness this isover.
I mean, to be fair, I will, Ihopefully will be writing a lot
more first chapters in myfuture.
So I will have to go throughhopefully not to this extreme,
hopefully.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (37:08):
No, that's a lot twenties a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Um, but uh, I was just so relieved at that point
that, uh, it's like, okay,whatever, you know, everybody
likes it, great done.
This is what it is.
Um, but, uh, yeah, no, butlooking back now that I've
actually had time to distancemyself from the material because
I was on submission for so longand I sold it sold at the end of
(37:34):
2019 and the publication day wasfor, um, early 20, 22.
So I had a very long leaduptime.
I was with the text of the bookfor so long that I couldn't
really see it for what it wasyeah.
Towards the end.
So now that I've had time totake a step back and you know,
(37:57):
uh, actually read it, oh, I likethis like good job, Lily, this
is nicely done.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Oh my gosh.
I know that feeling so well.
I always hate, you know, so I'mget about, I'm about ready to
turn in my current novel.
And I'm like in that point whereI've just been like stuck deep
in the text for so long that Idon't have the big picture of it
anymore, which is all was like areally nerve wracking part of
the process.
But then historically, and I'mcounting on it to happen again
(38:27):
here in a few months when I'mgoing over page proofs and I've
had some distance, then youstart to be like, oh, it's like
a real book now.
Cool.
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah.
And that's other thing and, andthere's, there's some sentences
in some areas of the text thatwe, as authors will just work so
long on and overwork it.
And by the end of it, we'returning it in.
And oh, we hate that.
You know, I hate that sentenceso much.
And then it's the sentence thatall the readers are quoting in
their reviews saying, oh, Iloved it so much.
(38:59):
And this really resonated withme and great.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Isn't that so funny it's so the truth you're
absolutely right.
I will say, I actually wrotedown, I don't usually do this,
but I wrote down my favoritequote, um, from one for all.
Oh, in which, uh, Tanya says Icould be strong and need help at
the same time.
Oh.
Which I felt like reallyencapsulated so much of what the
(39:23):
story is about.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yes.
Yes.
That's I think that, that was, Ican't, I can't remember.
I think that was aligned fromthe very first draft, if it
wasn't, it was an edited linefrom the very first draft,
because like you said, thatreally is the heart of one for
all.
It's the idea that needing helpisn't weakness and that, um, you
(39:50):
shouldn't have to hide that andneeding help isn't shameful.
Yeah.
Um, so I think that, like I'vesaid, you know, while I really
do think that the chronicillness representation is super
important and I think that it'sgoing to resonate with a lot of
chronically ill and disabledreaders.
I also think that there's auniversality to Tanya's story in
that anybody who's ever neededhelp or hasn't, you know, been
(40:13):
good at something or hasn't, youknow, just gone it alone or been
able to go it alone for theirentire lives.
Anybody is going to be able toresonate with that.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
No, absolutely.
And I think it's so hard to askfor help sometimes.
Um, I know for me, I'm, youknow, in my 37 year journey
toward trying to figure out howto ask for help when I need it,
you know, and no matter whatelement of your life, you know,
sometimes you just need to reachout to someone and it can be, it
(40:47):
does require some courage to dothat.
But like you say, it doesn'tmean you're weak.
It's not shameful.
It's part of being human.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah.
You know, it's this idea of, youknow, being a friend to
yourself, if you, if you would,if you would, if a friend came
to you and asked for help, youwould, you know, I would, of
course I, I would, of coursehelp a friend and Tanya of
course would help a friend.
But because she has this idea inher head that she, that nobody
wants to be friends with her orthat nobody, you know, that she
(41:15):
doesn't really have any realfriendships.
She's so worried that, um, anylittle thing will be the thing
that makes people turn away fromher say, oh, she's just not
worth it.
Whereas in actuality, I mean,being friends with anybody is it
doesn't mean that you're alwaysgoing to be having a good time
and that, um, people aren't evergoing to need help.
(41:38):
I mean, I think that most of mystrongest friendships are with
people who, um, I've gone to intimes of real crisis.
And I don't know how to dealwith this situation, or I don't
know what to do.
Can you give me advice or can,can you just tell me what to,
and I think, you know, for Tanyathat was, you know, learning
(42:04):
that she could do that andlearning that she could rely on
her sisterhood was really theessence and core of the book.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
No, and it fits so well because of course the
source material, the threeMusketeers has that brotherhood
aspect, um, which is so integralto what that story is about.
Um, and here you've donesomething really similar, um,
with these now four Musketeers.
Yes.
Um, and you know, for me, I, Iusually, I love romance in a
(42:36):
book and there is definitelysome romance here, but the, the
friendship storylines and howthese four girls come to really
trust and rely on each other,uh, is such a huge, important
part of the story.
You know?
So here, you've got both, you'rewriting both romance and these
really lovely friendshipstories, what to you, or like
(42:59):
some of the, the similarities ofwriting romance versus
friendship and how are theydifferent?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Oh, that's such a good question.
Um, I think that, for me, justin general, I don't think that,
uh, people put enough importanceon friendships and the, the
relationship of a friendship.
Um, and, uh, I think that we seethat a lot of time in modern
(43:27):
society.
And I'm thinking about like anumber of articles that go into,
um, you know, how, you know,French that go into how French,
how friendships are actualrelationships, um, and how, you
know, you take care of eachother and how you rely on each
other.
But, um, because I do, I dothink that it's, it's kind of
(43:49):
hard to talk about the writing,the romance element of it,
because I'm trying not to giveaway any spoiling.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I know
Speaker 2 (43:55):
That's
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Why I like specifically was like, wellm
not, can I ask about theromances?
Cause that'll get everythingaway.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah.
But for, I guess I think for me,is that whenever anybody asks,
is there a love story?
And one for all I say, yes,Tanya learns to love herself.
That is the love story.
And one for all it's Tanya andlearning to love herself.
And I think that, um, I thinkthat, uh, for me, uh, one of the
(44:21):
ways that I figured out how towrite about Tanya and
friendships versus Tanya inromantic relationships is that I
really wanted to write aboutacceptance in all its forms.
So she is accepted of course bythe other Maiers, but they all
(44:45):
have different ways of how theyshow their love for her and how
they accept her.
Um, because they're alldifferent people and different
people have different ways ofshowing their love.
But, um, and I wanted to do thatsame thing with the romantic
elements of one for all and show, um, that form of acceptance
(45:08):
and how, you know, Tony is ofher big fears at the beginning
of the book are two big fearsare, you know, nobody's gonna
want to be friends with me andnobody's ever going to want to
be with me.
And so I was using thoserelationships that are portrayed
in the book to answer thosequestions in terms of, yes,
(45:30):
people are going to want to befriends with you.
And yes, there are guys who willwant to be with you.
Yeah, no, I'm not.
I, I don't, I dunno if there'sanything else I can actually say
that, uh, has any insightwithout accidentally spoiling at
least a hundred pages of thebook?
Speaker 1 (45:49):
No, we definitely don't wanna spoil anything.
Um, I think part of the reason Iask is because I, I felt like
there was such wonderfulchemistry in these, this group
of girls.
Um, and just as I was readingit, I just found myself thinking
about that and how they interactwith each other in different
ways.
They interact with Tanya indifferent ways and yet, so many
(46:12):
of like the hallmarks of aromance story, um, being there
for each other and supportingeach other, getting to know each
other, they were there, but ofcourse it's, you know, more
platonic and yet still, youknow, kind of in a beautiful
way, like hitting all of thosesame notes.
Um, and so it just kind of mademe think about it.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah.
I think, I think that one forall is like, okay, well, I did
say that, you know, the lovestory and one for all is Tanya
learning to love herself.
I do think that there are thesedifferent elements of love
stories and different elementsof love, cuz there's familial
love in terms of Tanya'srelationship with her Papa and
her and her all, but there'salso her friendship with the
(46:55):
girls and her.
I mean, it goes, it it'ssisterhood and her, um, you
know, redacted relationships.
Um,
Speaker 1 (47:06):
OK.
I have one last question.
Um, before we move on ourlightning round, um, in your
bio, if it might be outdated,cuz sometimes bios are outdated,
but it said that you arecurrently getting your master's
degree.
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
It is a little bit outdated actually.
Um, it is it's it's so Iofficially graduate.
Did I officially grad?
I, I mean I, the diploma isbeing sent to me from across the
ocean.
Uh, did
Speaker 1 (47:36):
You just use the words?
Did I officially graduate?
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Well, it's, it's hard in COVID times.
We don't really have graduationceremonies anymore in person.
Um, and uh, it was very, veryodd, uh, especially because with
writing it's so different thanwhen you're in a field or a
subject like economics or evenhistory, or you might have some
(48:00):
final exams, you might have somefinal papers, but you will have
some final exams and for my maand creative writing post
fiction, it was you hand overyour, your dissertation and
you're finished bye now.
So, uh, yes, so I, I, Iofficially have my ma that's, it
(48:22):
feels very strange.
Just say out loud.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Well, congratulations.
Thank
Speaker 2 (48:26):
You.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Um, so I know, I mean a lot of our listen are students
in high school or in college.
Um, and I also know, uh, Iremember those days and how hard
it could be to find time towrite for myself as opposed to
just always working on, youknow, things I was doing for
school.
(48:48):
Um, so here you are, you've beengetting your degree and also
having this book come out,
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
What are maybe a couple of tips, um, or some
advice that you would give tosomeone who is in that position
and struggling to make time fortheir, um, their personal
passion writing?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Uh, well, first of all, I would say
congratulations, cause this isthe, the dynamic is difficult.
Um, and I don't think I realizedhow difficult it was going to be
until I actually started theprogram.
Um, because I, I wrote, I, Iwrote and I queried and I became
(49:28):
agent and I went on submissionwhile I was still an undergrad.
So, so I still managed to findtime to write for myself then,
but there's this shift when youget a book deal.
And I mean, of course it's, it'sa huge, huge privilege to be
able to say that this is acareer, that this is my job, but
(49:54):
it becomes you're, you're notjust writing for yourself
anymore.
You're writing in terms of, youknow, you're under contract, you
know, you, you have a book, soyou have deadlines to meet.
Um, and so that started when Iwas at school and for some
reason I, all of my deadlinesfor my books seem to magically
(50:16):
line up with my deadlines forschool as
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Well's so funny.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Me too.
I think it was either my second,my second round of edits, uh,
lined up with my very first dayof, uh, my master's program.
And then, uh, the legitimatelythe hour, the, the same hour
that I finished my last class ofright before, uh, winter break
(50:46):
got copy edits in my inbox orone for all there's no rest, no
break.
Um, but what I learned is thatone, um, it's really important
to find balance and everybodywill say that, but the key is to
(51:07):
find your balance because somepeople will say, oh, you have to
have this amount of time foryourself.
And this amount of time towrite, or you need to write this
amount every day, which is a lieand it's ableist and sexist and
classist and all those otherthings.
So just, you know, throw thatwhole entire idea away.
Um, so you're a writer still, ifyou don't write every day,
(51:30):
that's fine.
Um, but it's about finding abalance that works for you and,
you know, preserves your ownmental health and emotional
health because at the end of theday, those are the two most
important things and physicalhealth, of course.
Um, so, uh, I did a lot ofediting, uh, and then going to
(51:54):
workshop or, um, workshopping myown classmates work.
Um, I'm a bit of a nerd, which Ithink most writers are, but, um,
I'm a nerd, so I really enjoydoing workshops and on other
people's work and gettingfeedback.
So, uh, I would get all of thatdone really quickly.
(52:17):
Um, of course I would, I wouldtake my time and dedicate time
to it.
I don't wanna make it sound likein case all the off chance any
of my cohort is listening in andthen going Lily, did you not
actually give us thoroughfeedback to, uh, but, um, I
would do all of it at when I gotat the beginning of the week.
And then I would have a certainamount of days in between that
(52:42):
day and the next workshop.
So I would devote those days toworking on one for all and on
edits.
I, I think it was also reallyhelpful that I, I have a really
great team behind me and, and myagent and my editor and
everybody at FSG.
So, um, I don't think there wasa time when I needed an
(53:04):
extension while I was at UEA,but, but I also did know that if
I need needed to ask for onethat I would get it.
And I think that that's alsoimportant and it's important to
find a, a, a good editor who,you know, is going to have your
back when it comes to makingsure that one you're healthy,
(53:27):
you're safe, but also makingsure that, you know, you, you
both want the book to be thebest book that it can be.
And if that means taking a fewextra weeks, then that means
taking a few extra weeks,obviously as a DB author, that's
a bit different for me because,you know, for somebody like you,
who, you know, you have lots ofdeadlines and lots of books, so
(53:48):
it's more rigid.
Um, but, uh, for me, becausethere was this very long lead up
time to the book publication, Ihad wiggle room, uh, looking
back.
I think that that was really theonly way that I managed it
because my gosh, I mean, theamount of work combined with
(54:09):
edits was just, it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Yeah, no, it is a lot.
Um, and I think people aresurprised when I tell them that
I am like routinely asking forextensions.
Um, and there was a time in mycareer where I felt really weird
about that and like, I'd failedsomehow, but of like we were
talking before that sometimesyou just need to ask for help.
Um, and sometimes you just needa little bit more time and like
(54:34):
you say, it's in everyone's bestinterest to have the best book
possible.
So if you need some extra time,that's okay.
Ask for it.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
All right.
Are you ready for a bonus round?
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
All right.
Cake or pie?
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Oh, no, this is, so I thought these were gonna quick
questions.
Um, I'm gonna say, oh, cake, butchocolate flour cake,
specifically
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Plotter or pants.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Oh, pants,
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Fancy ball gown or comfortable breaches
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Ball gown,
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Opulent, palace, or cozy cottage
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Cottage
Speaker 1 (55:27):
In your ball gown.
Yes.
What is your favorite part ofwriting?
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Oh, uh, drafting, right when you get a new idea.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Hmm.
How about your least favoritepart of writing?
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Editing, editing, definitely editing.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Oh, uh, legend.
Born by Traci Dion.
Mm,
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Good one good choice.
She was on this podcast forpeople who haven't listened to
her episode.
She was phenomenal.
Uh, what are you working onnext?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
That is a really good question.
Um, and, uh, it's not one, Idon't, it's not one that I, I, I
know really how to answerbecause, um, I'm waiting on, uh,
my editor's feedback.
Um, but I, I am working on waytoo many novels right now.
(56:27):
Um, I think there's four or five, uh, and I'm working on the
novel that I was working on formy ma, which is adult literary
fiction.
I'm working on three differentYas.
Um, and, uh, the Y that I thinkwill pro I don't, I so hard to
say now, and I don't wanna jinxanything.
(56:47):
Um, it, it leans more fantasy,so more magic, but of course
swords, because there mustalways be swords.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
I mean, you've got all that fencing experience.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
I've gotta use it.
I've so
Speaker 1 (57:03):
What a totally use skill for a writer who would've
thought lastly, where can peoplefind you?
Speaker 2 (57:10):
People can find me at Lily layoff on Twitter and
Instagram.
Uh, my website iswww.lilylayoff.com.
And there, you can find all thelinks to pre-order one for, um,
how to find signed copies, whichare being provided through east
city bookshop fund preordercampaign and library request,
(57:33):
campaign giveaways, likecharacter art, whole deal, uh,
and also, uh, my work that'scurrently in print and, uh, work
that is upcoming and, uh, placeswhere one for all will be
publishing in the near future.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Excellent.
Lily, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Thank you so much for having me.
I had such a good time.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
I did too readers.
Definitely check out one for allit is coming out tomorrow on
March 8th.
Of course, we encourage you tosupport your local indie
bookstore.
If you can, if you don't have alocal indie, you can check out
our affiliate store atbookshop.org/shop/marisa Meyer.
Next week, I will be talkingwith joy L Smith about her debut
(58:20):
ballet inspired young adultnovel turning.
If you're enjoying theseconversations, please subscribe
and follow us on Instagram atMarisa Meyer author and at happy
writer podcast until next timestay healthy, stay cozy and
whatever life throws at youtoday.
I hope that now you're feeling alittle bit happier.
Hello, and welcome to the happy writer.
This is a podcast that aims tobring readers, more books to
enjoy and to help authors findmore joy in their writing.
I am your host, Mari Meyer.
Thank you for joining me.
Uh, there was like a ton ofstuff making me happy this week.
Honestly, guys, this is a kindaa big week for me.
(00:32):
Um, we're recording this quite abit in advance, um, because I
didn't want it to intrude on myvacation plans, but as of this
recording, um, about to turn incursed my next book, that's
coming out in November, I've gotlike three more chapters to
write and it is due in just acouple of days, so, oh, it will
(00:54):
feel so good to have it turnedin.
Of course I'm gonna be runningmy half marathon here in a week
in Disney world.
I think I already talked aboutthat before, but it's like
taking over my life right now.
Those two things are pretty muchall I can think about cursed and
Disney world.
And then on top of that in, Ithink it was in our last
(01:15):
episode, I talked about howactually it might have been two
episodes ago.
I don't know my schedule's alloff.
Um, I have writer brain rightnow, I think.
Um, but I talked about how wefinally got to announce this
project that I was working onlast fall that I am so, so
excited for.
Um, so just in case you missedthat announcement, we are going
(01:39):
to be releasing a brand newlunar Chronicles novel.
It is coming out in ebook onlyon March 15th to coincide with
the release of the cinder tenureanniversary.
It is called Cinder's adventure.
Get me to the wedding.
So yeah, there's a wedding, butmore than that, it is an
(02:02):
interactive story experie, whichmeans you, the readers get to
guide cider down her path andmake her choices for her and see
where it takes you in the story.
And what was really fun for mewriting this is that as cider
goes off on these differentpathways, you know, she kind of
falls down the rabbit hole, soto speak and comes in contact
(02:27):
with like every character I'veever written just about.
Um, so there's the renegadescharacters, the heartless
characters, they're all inthere.
It is a truly wacky silly story,but it was just so much fun to
write.
So that's coming out on March15th, which I think by the time
this at episode goes up is likenext week.
(02:48):
That is soon.
I can't believe it.
Uh, it is available forpre-order.
I really hope you will check itout.
Um, also just as a, an FYI, I amgonna be donating all of my
royalties from that project tofirst book, which is one of my
favorite literacy basedorganizations.
So yay.
(03:09):
So much exciting thingshappening.
And of course now I'm allbreathless, cuz I am like super,
super excited talking about thisstuff, but of course I so happy
to be talking to today's guest.
She holds a bachelor's inEnglish from Yale university and
is currently getting hermaster's degree in creative
writing pros fiction from theuniversity of east Anea.
(03:33):
Her work has been featured inthe LA review, the Washington
post among others.
And she is the founder ofdisabled kid lit writers.
She's also a competitive fencerand fencing coach, her debut by
novel one for all comes outtomorrow on March 8th, please
welcome Lily layoff.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Thank you so much for joining me.
Um, I'm just gonna start out bysaying that I loved this book
all capitals.
I can't wait to talk about itand I can't wait to recommend it
to everyone who loves reallykick butt female characters,
sword fighting in likehistorical Paris.
It's all, all the things I'veever wanted.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh yes.
Oh, there's a reason why I likecalling the book sisterhood of
the stab stab.
And I think that you justencapsulated everything.
I like the sisterhood of thestab stab is
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I love it.
It's a super, super fun story.
Um, it, it truly was likeexactly the story that I wanted
to be reading this week.
So thank you.
And congratulations for thelaunch of your debut novel.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I'm feel it's it's exciting.
Uh, it's this strange, surrealfeeling of the manifestation of
my childhood dream, cuz I'vealways wanted to be an author.
So it's, it's very strange tofinally have this hardcover book
that has my name on it.
Uh, it's also incrediblyexciting.
(05:16):
Uh, I'm already getting a lot of, um, messages and letters from
readers and early readers who,um, have really, really, um, who
one for all has really resonatedwith.
And it's so it's exciting.
It's nerve wracking, but it'salso incredibly rewarding and
(05:36):
I'm just really thankful, uh,that this day is finally
approaching.
I
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It's finally approaching it's almost here.
It is so exciting.
Um, and, and that is a perfect Sinto the first thing that I ask
all of our guests.
Um, you mentioned that this wasa childhood dream of yours.
Uh, so I love to know yourorigin story as a writer.
How did it go from being achildhood dream to now having
(06:07):
your name on a book cover?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So I knew that I wanted to be a writer since
around when I was five yearsold, old, and I don't think I
really knew what the concept ofan author was.
At least I really don't thinkfive year old Lily did, but, uh,
I knew that I wanted to be theperson who created the stories
(06:31):
and the books that I read andthat were read to me when I was
little.
So I proceeded to become thatgirl and that girl being the one
who has a notebook underneathone arm and a book underneath
the other.
And that's how she walks aroundfor, I mean, practically my
entire childhood.
And whenever anybody asked mewhat I was going to be, when I
(06:52):
grew up, I said, I'm gonna be awriter.
And, uh, it, you know, it,people thought it was very sweet
and very precocious.
And then they realized that, uh,my answer remained the same into
my, you know, into being ateenager and into being an
adult.
Oh, okay, well maybe she'sactually going to do this.
Uh, so I, uh, did a lot of, youknow, writing summer camps when
(07:19):
I was a teenager.
Uh, the Scholastic art andwriting awards was a huge, uh,
just a huge push for me.
And, uh, their recognition wasreally helpful and getting me,
uh, kick started in terms of mywriting career.
Uh, I started writing a few opwhen I was in college and those
(07:41):
are published.
So I was figuring out how tonavigate writing fiction and
nonfiction.
And, uh, uh, I taught myself howto, uh, query agents on my twin
Excel bed in my dorm room, incollege with the agent directory
, uh, the printed out onehighlighting names and seeing
(08:04):
who represented ye, which Ithink is very, it's very
different for authors now.
Um, but, uh, I, I ended upfinding representation, um, and
a few different books later anda very long time on submission
later.
Uh, my book is actually a book.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So this was not the book that got you, your agent.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Oh, no, no.
Um, so I don't really know if wecan call the first book.
I wrote a novel because I was 12and it really wasn't, it's, it's
going to remain in the drawer,locked away for the rest of my
life.
Nobody will ever read this, but,um, I wrote, I think what I
(08:57):
would consider my first realnovel when I was in high school
and I finished it while I was incollege and I taught myself, um,
how to query to query thatnovel.
And I got a little bit ofinterest, but not a lot.
Uh, but the, the good thingabout it was that I, I had
learned how to query properly bydoing that.
(09:20):
So when I wrote my next novel, Iknew how I, how to write the
query letter.
I knew which agents I wanted toquery.
So when I receivedrepresentation, that process was
pretty quick.
Uh, and then I was on submissionwith that novel for two years.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Oh,
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Wow.
And that novel, uh, I don't, Ihate the word die.
I, I hate the term died onsubmission because to me, the
book still lives on.
I'd love to see it published oneday, but while I was on
submission, I was work on onefor all.
Um, and I went on some issuewith one for all, I think in,
(10:04):
gosh, would've been the end of2018.
Uh, yeah, the end of 2018.
And I was on submission with onefor all for a year.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So, I mean, take me through the day that your agent
called you up and was like, Iknow it's been a year, but guess
what?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Oh, oh.
So I think that, uh, we had, I,I didn't really have that exact
call because, uh, to the dismayof my agent, I'm in incre I'm,
you know, the positive,optimistic side who likes to say
I'm proactive.
The negative side of me likes tosay, you're a little bit, Nu
(10:45):
Louis
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Say to be a little bit Nu.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So I, I would, you know, her say, Hey, what's going
on?
Do we know what's?
Is anybody liking it or readingit?
And, um, my editor, Melissawarden had emailed us saying,
Hey, I really love this.
I'm not finished yet, but canyou send me some more
information and materials?
(11:10):
So we had a feeling that maybethis was going to be it.
And I knew that she was takingit to acquisitions.
And that day was the moststressful day of my entire life,
because I knew that acquisitionswas ha the meeting was happening
at some point during that day.
But I didn't know when, so I,uh, was staying with a family
(11:35):
friend and, oh, poor.
I, I feel so bad for them.
Cause I had put up with me justpacing the entire day, trying to
okay.
Well, okay.
Well maybe it's a lunch meetingand then after lunch, okay.
Maybe it's not a lunch meetingand the email slash call for my
agent came in, I wanna sayaround 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM.
(11:58):
And I just burst into tears.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I also burst into tears.
I actually, I remember likegetting the call in the morning
from my agent and then I liketotally held it together for
like the entire day till myhusband got home from work.
And like the moment that hewalked in the door, just like
tears kiss came, floodingforward, all the emotion.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh gosh.
That's so impressive that youmanaged to hold it together for
an entire day though.
Yeah.
Cause that's huge news.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh gosh.
Such, such an incredible moment.
Um, okay.
Well, I am so happy that thebook found its editor found its
home is now coming out, uh, forpeople to read for me to read.
Uh, why don't you tell listenerswhat is one for all about?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Okay.
Uh, so one for all, uh, is agender event reimagining of the
three Musk of tears in which agirl with a chronic illness and
that chronic illness is postalorthostatic tachycardia syndrome
, um, trains as a MUE anduncovers secrets, sisterhood,
and self love.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
That was a very succinct I Here's my elevator
pitch.
Um, okay.
So the moment that I heard aboutthis book, gender bend three
Musketeers, I was like, I will,I would like to read that email
author, ask for podcastimmediately.
(13:29):
Um, I love the three Musketeers.
Uh, I love anything to do withyou Paris in this time period.
And then hearing that we'regonna have females in the lead
roles.
Like it's just such a greatconcept.
Um, so I am curious, Cause Ialso know that you're a fencer,
(13:52):
so, and I wanna talk aboutfencing as well for you.
What came first?
The interest in fencing or theinterest in the three
Musketeers?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Oh, definitely the interest in fencing.
Um, I remember I was at a summercamp for, I think it was for
art, a, an art summer camp ofsome sort.
And they were bringing in peoplewho, um, had different
professions each day.
And for some reason, one daythey brought in a fencer and
(14:24):
this is strange because there'smaybe five professional fencers
in the entire world.
It's not a professional support.
You don't make money ASR.
So I don't know how or why theycoordinated it like that.
But this woman came in and shewas talking about fencing and I
(14:44):
was just looking up at her and Iremember, oh my gosh, she's so
cool.
And all my favorite childhoodmovies were Mulan and the
princess bride was, oh my gosh,I want to do that.
I need to do that.
And at that point I had prettymuch tried every single sport
known in existence.
I tried swimming, soccer,basketball, track, and field
(15:06):
skating, horseback riding, uh,golf, pretty much everything
because I wasn't a verycoordinated child.
And my parents thought, yes,let's get li into sports.
She will be less clumsy.
And uh, none of that reallyworked.
However, it's verycounterintuitive.
(15:26):
Yes.
Came home that day.
Mom, I wanna do the sportbecause I want to hit people
with swords.
And she said, okay.
So, uh, I joined with a friendand I was the only girl in my
class and I think it was maybe aclass of 12.
(15:46):
So it was me and 11 little boyswhen I was eight or nine years
old.
And I really loved the sport.
Somehow it was a sport that Iwas good at, which was a new
thing for me.
And I knew that I wanted to getto the point where I could
compete.
So I switched to and club.
So I could be in a class withother girls because at the
(16:10):
national competitive level offencing, there's well'em and
fencing.
And there's men fencing at theregional level.
There's mixed events.
But, uh, for the events that Iknew that I wanted to
participate in at the nationallevel, I knew that I had to
practice fencing other girls andI switched fencing clubs.
And that was when, during thesummer fencing camps, we started
(16:33):
watching movies like the man inthe iron mask or the three muske
tears.
And that's when I first reallystarted to love the three muske
tears and the storytelling andthis slightly off slightly
fantastical version of Paristhat some that is historical,
but it's also not, there'ssomething off about it.
(16:54):
There's something dark.
Uh, and I loved all the fencingthat being said, I was also
taken aback by where are all thegirls with swords?
Where are all the women withswords?
This is strange.
And, uh, as I grew up, Irealized that, you know, the
three Musketeers, um,represented to a lot of people,
(17:17):
this very specific type ofmasculinity in term.
And what I mean by that is, islike this type of masculinity
that is equivalent to, you know,squash, buckling and, uh,
sleeping with lots of women andgetting into lots of, um, doing
lots of crimes in, in the nameof the king, but really how are
(17:39):
you getting away with stuff likethat?
No.
Uh, and I, when, uh, I wasthinking about starting to write
one for all, I thought, wouldn'tit be cool if I took my favorite
parts of the three Musketeers,which is of course the 10 saying
, and the elements ofbrotherhood and fraternity and
(18:01):
this really profound sense ofloyalty.
Uh, and what if I did that withgirls?
And what if I did that withwomen?
Because I didn't have anystories like that when I was
growing up.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I love it.
No, I completely agree.
I think that the world wasmissing this and I'm so happy
that it's now here.
I want everyone to go read it.
Um, if they have any interest inthis sort of thing, I love like
all the things you're talkingabout, the swash and the Debre
attitude and all of that, butseeing it now for women, it's
just, it's really fun.
(18:35):
And like, we've waited too longfor this.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So, so you, you get the idea, you're gonna do a, a
kind of feminist retelling ofthree Musks.
What was the research processlike?
How much were you drawing on theoriginal source material?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Okay.
So, um, the research wasintense.
Uh, I have a bookmark file tabon my laptop that is just full
with J store articles and blogposts and videos on YouTube of
(19:16):
reenactments of court videos.
So I could correctly describehow people place their arms and
hands at different points duringthe dance.
Um, I also built upon, I startedtaking French when I was in
first grade and I studied Frenchall the way through elementary,
(19:39):
middle, and high school, andthen through half of college.
So I was, I was definitelyfamiliar with the language and,
uh, a lot of those courses alsoincorporated cultural elements.
So I had a lot of the books thatI needed.
I had a lot of, I knew where tofind the resources that I
needed.
(19:59):
So it, it was the mixture ofusing the knowledge that I
already had over the many yearsof study and then also doing my
own research.
And I was very, very low luckyto be doing part of my research
while I was still in undergrad.
So I had access to a lot ofthose, um, scholar, article
(20:20):
websites for free.
So, um, I was able to, you know,look up articles about how the
Parisian ports are laid out andwhat they actually looked like.
Or I, um, you know, what kindsof fabrics specifically were, uh
, dresses made out of, for younggirls versus girls versus women
(20:43):
and how, uh, women used to, uh,cut costs, but also try to mimic
pearls, which is what the, oneof my favorite fun facts that I
learned is about how, um,imitation pearls were made out
of glass beads and ground down,um, fish, um, fish skills
(21:06):
interesting.
And, uh, they and a ammonium.
And then they would pour thatmaterial into a glass bead and
then have it coat the inside andthen fill the rest with wax.
And from the outside, it lookedlike a Pearl.
So all these women we're goingaround this kind of fish scale,
(21:29):
necklaces that to the world booklike pearls.
So it was a, a lot of those fundetails that don't make it into
the book
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I was gonna ask.
Cause I like, I don't rememberthis detail.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Oh no, no.
I could write so many books.
I would love to write more, onemore books in the one for all
universe.
Um, just so I could use all theresearch that I learned.
Oh, cuz it's all sitting on mycomputer.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
No, that is one of the things about research.
Um, I, I also, I'm a researchfan.
I love doing it.
I get really excited about allof the just weird quirky detail
that you pick up when you'rereading about, you know,
different, you know, places ortime periods, what have you.
And yet what actually makes itinto the book is so small
(22:19):
compared to like this hugeamount of information that you
have gathered.
And there's always a part of methat just like, but, but there's
more cool stuff like can't I fitit in it's I I'm so frustrated
by that sometimes.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah.
Me, me too, me too one for allused to be a lot longer.
I tried to fit it in.
I couldn't,
Speaker 1 (22:41):
No, I, I mean, it pays off though.
The book, I mean, it was one ofthose books that was very
immersive and I, I just love allof the little lush details, the,
you know, etiquette of highsociety and the clothing and the
architecture and it, it reallywas one of those books that just
(23:02):
puts you there.
Um, so it paid off your researchworked.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Thank you so much.
No, that it it's nice to hearthat.
Especially after all, like Isaid, all the hours of, uh,
watching the, the YouTube videosand pressing play and then pause
and then play and then pause.
So I could map out the armmovements at every single second
of the dancing.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Oh my gosh.
I, I, I get it.
I've been there.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So I always feel like writing, like as a reader, I
love historical fiction, um,largely in part, because it does
just put you in this time andplace, um, as a re excuse me, as
a writer, I find it veryintimidating.
Like for me, even writing afantasy world that is, you know,
loosely inspired by history, Ijust get so worried about what
(23:56):
if I get something wrong?
What if I miss something or, or,or mess something up and
readers, notice it for you?
Like, or what would you say tosomeone who maybe has an idea
they wanna try their hand athistorical fiction, but they're
afraid of getting somethingwrong?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, I think that, I mean, I we've, we've talked
about already, but researchreally is so important.
Um, so something else that wasreally important for me was I
had a, um, consultant, um, Elleper whose own book is coming out
soon.
I believe so everybody shouldcheck that out.
(24:37):
Um, but she, uh, is an expert ofthat specific of one for all
specific time period and inFrance.
Uh, so she went through one forall and told me, uh, I'm not
sure about this.
Uh, I'm not sure about this orare we sure that this timing
(24:59):
would've worked, uh, you know,with me doing math, if it takes
a carriage this long to go onemile, how long would it take for
Tanya from Lu to reach Paris?
I know I haven't done math likethat since I was in high school.
So, uh, she helped me a lot justto pick up on things that maybe
(25:22):
I hadn't noticed because I, I'mnot a historian.
Uh, and that was incrediblyhelpful.
I also had some early readerswho by chance were fluent French
speakers.
So they would also say, uh, youused the wrong, uh, tense here,
which was helpful.
(25:44):
Um, but I guess at the end ofthe day, it's a little bit
different, like you said, forwriting historical fantasy.
And, and I don't consider onefor all straight historical
fiction because it isn't, I, Idid want to pay ho homage duas,
uh, and how he created this altfantastical version of Paris.
(26:06):
So I fudged some detailsspecifically to mimic what he
did in the three muske tears.
Uh, so one of the, I think theimportant thing for me was what
I wanted to be able to say was,okay, I have done all the
research I possibly can.
(26:27):
And if there is something inincorrect in the book, or I've
gotten it wrong, that's aspecific choice that I've made.
Mm.
Uh, I didn't want it to bebecause I missed something.
And that's probably not thehealthiest way of doing research
and writing historical fictionbecause we're humans, we're
(26:49):
flawed.
We're not going to be perfectall the time.
We're going to miss things.
But, uh, research really is justsuper important and also
researching in ways that youmight not expect research, uh,
via, uh, objects that aren'tnecessarily documents.
So if you can go to museums and,and, and COVID, it's difficult,
(27:12):
but, um, there are lots ofmuseums that have exhibits
online.
Now, if you can look at, um,artifacts from those time
periods, so drag and, uh, tablesand mantle pieces, and anything
from history tells a story.
(27:34):
So you can find out so muchabout the historical time
period, just based on the kindof stitches they were using in
their clothing and how they madeclothing.
So it's about coming at theresearch from multiple different
sides.
So not just the documents, notjust the language, but also the
(27:55):
actual physical objects.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I love that you were speaking my language, the hands
on like primary source type ofresearch is my favorite.
And it really, it, it, it makesa difference to the writing you
will find and see and noticedetails that like this, this
scholar is probably not gonnaput into their writing, um, so
(28:22):
much great advice.
Thank you.
Um, I wanna talk about our maincharacter, Tanya, um, because
one of the things that is sopowerful about this book is that
you have taken, you know, thisvery well known story, the three
Musketeers, and like you weretalking about before, there was
(28:43):
just this, you know,masculinity.
And like, one of the things thatwe, I think love about the three
Musketeers is that they almosthave this like invincible aspect
to them.
Like they, you know, they can'tbe harmed, they can't lose.
And you not only have you putgirls into these roles, um, but
(29:04):
you've also given us a femalelead who have as a disability
who is dealing with chronicillness.
Um, and so like, there's so manypeople in her world who see her
as weak and, and frail andvulnerable, and it really kind
of turns this whole idea on itshead.
Uh, so talk to me a little bitabout what inspired her, what,
(29:25):
what, where this come from, uh,and maybe what were some of the
challenges, the uniquechallenges that, that presented
for the story,
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Right.
Uh, so Tanya, uh, and herexperience with pots is directly
experienced with my experiencewith pots.
Um, because when I was ateenager and I was diagnosed in
when I was 14, uh, so right atthe beginning of high school, I
didn't have any books aboutcharacters with pots.
(29:55):
And to be clear, I mean, as faras we know, one for all is the
first trip initially publishedbook by a major publisher with a
main character with plots.
So, um, teenage will is finallygetting her book.
Uh, but, um, I had initiallystarted writing one for all.
Um, and I didn't in my mindimagine Tonya as having plots
(30:18):
and after a paragraph ofwriting, it just felt wrong.
And I realized that was becauseI really wanted to write about
fencing the way that I fence andthe way that I fence is
inextricable from my experiencewith pots.
Because I mean, when you have acondition that causes dizziness
(30:39):
and fainting and blurred visionand headaches amongst other
symptoms, fencing is going to beaffected.
So I wanted to be able to writeabout the different ways that
she learns to fence with pots.
Um, and slowly that startedturning into me being able to
(31:01):
write about, um, a narrativeabout internalized ableism and
the way that people view her andhow she learns to love herself,
which, um, while it is in ahistorical setting, it's very
much, I think, um, it, it veryclearly maps onto a modern day
(31:24):
lens in terms of these were allthings that I was thinking about
myself when I was a teenager.
Um, I was worried that nobodywould want to be friends with a
sick girl.
I was, you know, I had a bestfriend who ghosted me after I,
you know, couldn't really hangout anymore, you know, be fun.
(31:44):
Um, I was really worried aboutguys not being entrusted in me
once they figured out that I wassick.
So I wanted to put all of thatinto Tanya and to speak to your
last point about, you know, someof the challenges of writing
about that.
Um, it was difficult in the waythat pouring her soul onto the
(32:06):
page is difficult because Tanyais not me, but she's definitely
part of me.
So because there is so much ofme on the page, it was reopening
old wounds that had never reallyhealed over properly.
I, and giving them the chance tostart to heal.
(32:28):
So it was at a process ofextreme vulnerability, which to
be fair.
I think that anytime an authorputs a novel into the world, it
is an extreme, activevulnerability, but for one, for
all, it had so much, it has somuch of me in it.
So that required a lot ofvulnerability.
(32:50):
And I think that, um, I was verylucky in terms of my age and,
and my editor, because, uh,there were ti, there were times,
and this was probably probablyone of the other difficult
elements is that, um, sometimesthe very clear way that you need
to change the plot or a plotpoint or how you're
(33:11):
transitioning from one scene tothe next isn't possible because
of Tanya's chronic illness.
For example, there's a point atthe beginning of the book when
her house is broken into it'sthe opening scene.
Um, and my agent had suggestedthat it needed to be closer in
time period, to, uh, the act,the beginning of, um, the main
(33:39):
story of one for all as, becausethe chapter one kind of serves
as a, as a frame.
And I said, actually, that, thatcan't really work because if
Tanya had passed out and washealing super sick, just a few
days ago, she's not gonna be ina position where she convinced
(34:02):
the next day or two days later,she's not going to, she's
clearly in the middle of a potsflare, you know, a chronic
illness flare.
She's not gonna be able to getup and start the day.
So it was a lot of, um,thinking, okay, well, how do we,
uh, maintain the authenticitywhile also, while also making
(34:30):
sure that the craft is where itneeds to be, and that the plot
makes sense and that all thoseseeing transitions work.
So it, my, my process, it was,it was very collaborative.
And again, like I said, I'm verylucky with my, with my agent,
Jennifer Wells and my editor,Melissa Warren, because I would
tell them something and say,Hey, this actually doesn't work
(34:53):
because of X, Y, and Z.
And they would go, okay, let'stry to think of something else
that would work.
They didn't try to push me onit, or because they knew that it
would end up creating anarrative that didn't feel
authentic.
And at the end of the day, Idon't think would've been as
successful.
Um, yeah, as one for all is.
So, uh, I think I wrote maybe21st chapters.
(35:16):
I know they stopped countingaround 12, but, um, we tried so
many different things in termsof how to work around that scene
, transition on how to makethings feel immediate.
Um, and I think it ended upsuccessful.
Uh, so yes.
So I think that, uh, the biggestdifficulties in, uh, were, were
(35:41):
in terms of the, um, one openingmyself up and allowing myself to
be vulnerable on the page andtwo, uh, finding ways to edit
and make sure the craft ismaintained while also
maintaining authenticity.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I think it'sabsolutely successful.
Um, and I'm really curious, cuzI found in my experience that,
you know, sometimes a book willpose a challenge and you're at
first, not sure.
Well, how am I gonna, you know,get this to work?
How am I gonna fill this plothole?
How am I gonna make thisauthentic, but also do what I'm
(36:19):
trying to do, blah, blah, blah,whatever the problem is.
And for me, I think a lot oftimes when we're kind of forced
to move past, you know, our, ourfirst idea, our second idea, our
12th idea for how to do this andlike keep pushing it and keep
brainstorming and keep lookingfor solutions.
(36:41):
But then when we finally land onsomething that works, it's like
a hundred times better than whatwe'd originally tried to do.
Did you kind of have that sameexperience as well?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I think so, but also I was just so relieved at that
point.
That thank goodness this isover.
I mean, to be fair, I will, Ihopefully will be writing a lot
more first chapters in myfuture.
So I will have to go throughhopefully not to this extreme,
hopefully.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (37:08):
No, that's a lot twenties a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Um, but uh, I was just so relieved at that point
that, uh, it's like, okay,whatever, you know, everybody
likes it, great done.
This is what it is.
Um, but, uh, yeah, no, butlooking back now that I've
actually had time to distancemyself from the material because
I was on submission for so longand I sold it sold at the end of
(37:34):
2019 and the publication day wasfor, um, early 20, 22.
So I had a very long leaduptime.
I was with the text of the bookfor so long that I couldn't
really see it for what it wasyeah.
Towards the end.
So now that I've had time totake a step back and you know,
(37:57):
uh, actually read it, oh, I likethis like good job, Lily, this
is nicely done.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Oh my gosh.
I know that feeling so well.
I always hate, you know, so I'mget about, I'm about ready to
turn in my current novel.
And I'm like in that point whereI've just been like stuck deep
in the text for so long that Idon't have the big picture of it
anymore, which is all was like areally nerve wracking part of
the process.
But then historically, and I'mcounting on it to happen again
(38:27):
here in a few months when I'mgoing over page proofs and I've
had some distance, then youstart to be like, oh, it's like
a real book now.
Cool.
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah.
And that's other thing and, andthere's, there's some sentences
in some areas of the text thatwe, as authors will just work so
long on and overwork it.
And by the end of it, we'returning it in.
And oh, we hate that.
You know, I hate that sentenceso much.
And then it's the sentence thatall the readers are quoting in
their reviews saying, oh, Iloved it so much.
(38:59):
And this really resonated withme and great.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Isn't that so funny it's so the truth you're
absolutely right.
I will say, I actually wrotedown, I don't usually do this,
but I wrote down my favoritequote, um, from one for all.
Oh, in which, uh, Tanya says Icould be strong and need help at
the same time.
Oh.
Which I felt like reallyencapsulated so much of what the
(39:23):
story is about.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yes.
Yes.
That's I think that, that was, Ican't, I can't remember.
I think that was aligned fromthe very first draft, if it
wasn't, it was an edited linefrom the very first draft,
because like you said, thatreally is the heart of one for
all.
It's the idea that needing helpisn't weakness and that, um, you
(39:50):
shouldn't have to hide that andneeding help isn't shameful.
Yeah.
Um, so I think that, like I'vesaid, you know, while I really
do think that the chronicillness representation is super
important and I think that it'sgoing to resonate with a lot of
chronically ill and disabledreaders.
I also think that there's auniversality to Tanya's story in
that anybody who's ever neededhelp or hasn't, you know, been
(40:13):
good at something or hasn't, youknow, just gone it alone or been
able to go it alone for theirentire lives.
Anybody is going to be able toresonate with that.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
No, absolutely.
And I think it's so hard to askfor help sometimes.
Um, I know for me, I'm, youknow, in my 37 year journey
toward trying to figure out howto ask for help when I need it,
you know, and no matter whatelement of your life, you know,
sometimes you just need to reachout to someone and it can be, it
(40:47):
does require some courage to dothat.
But like you say, it doesn'tmean you're weak.
It's not shameful.
It's part of being human.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah.
You know, it's this idea of, youknow, being a friend to
yourself, if you, if you would,if you would, if a friend came
to you and asked for help, youwould, you know, I would, of
course I, I would, of coursehelp a friend and Tanya of
course would help a friend.
But because she has this idea inher head that she, that nobody
wants to be friends with her orthat nobody, you know, that she
(41:15):
doesn't really have any realfriendships.
She's so worried that, um, anylittle thing will be the thing
that makes people turn away fromher say, oh, she's just not
worth it.
Whereas in actuality, I mean,being friends with anybody is it
doesn't mean that you're alwaysgoing to be having a good time
and that, um, people aren't evergoing to need help.
(41:38):
I mean, I think that most of mystrongest friendships are with
people who, um, I've gone to intimes of real crisis.
And I don't know how to dealwith this situation, or I don't
know what to do.
Can you give me advice or can,can you just tell me what to,
and I think, you know, for Tanyathat was, you know, learning
(42:04):
that she could do that andlearning that she could rely on
her sisterhood was really theessence and core of the book.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
No, and it fits so well because of course the
source material, the threeMusketeers has that brotherhood
aspect, um, which is so integralto what that story is about.
Um, and here you've donesomething really similar, um,
with these now four Musketeers.
Yes.
Um, and you know, for me, I, Iusually, I love romance in a
(42:36):
book and there is definitelysome romance here, but the, the
friendship storylines and howthese four girls come to really
trust and rely on each other,uh, is such a huge, important
part of the story.
You know?
So here, you've got both, you'rewriting both romance and these
really lovely friendshipstories, what to you, or like
(42:59):
some of the, the similarities ofwriting romance versus
friendship and how are theydifferent?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Oh, that's such a good question.
Um, I think that, for me, justin general, I don't think that,
uh, people put enough importanceon friendships and the, the
relationship of a friendship.
Um, and, uh, I think that we seethat a lot of time in modern
(43:27):
society.
And I'm thinking about like anumber of articles that go into,
um, you know, how, you know,French that go into how French,
how friendships are actualrelationships, um, and how, you
know, you take care of eachother and how you rely on each
other.
But, um, because I do, I dothink that it's, it's kind of
(43:49):
hard to talk about the writing,the romance element of it,
because I'm trying not to giveaway any spoiling.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I know
Speaker 2 (43:55):
That's
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Why I like specifically was like, wellm
not, can I ask about theromances?
Cause that'll get everythingaway.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah.
But for, I guess I think for me,is that whenever anybody asks,
is there a love story?
And one for all I say, yes,Tanya learns to love herself.
That is the love story.
And one for all it's Tanya andlearning to love herself.
And I think that, um, I thinkthat, uh, for me, uh, one of the
(44:21):
ways that I figured out how towrite about Tanya and
friendships versus Tanya inromantic relationships is that I
really wanted to write aboutacceptance in all its forms.
So she is accepted of course bythe other Maiers, but they all
(44:45):
have different ways of how theyshow their love for her and how
they accept her.
Um, because they're alldifferent people and different
people have different ways ofshowing their love.
But, um, and I wanted to do thatsame thing with the romantic
elements of one for all and show, um, that form of acceptance
(45:08):
and how, you know, Tony is ofher big fears at the beginning
of the book are two big fearsare, you know, nobody's gonna
want to be friends with me andnobody's ever going to want to
be with me.
And so I was using thoserelationships that are portrayed
in the book to answer thosequestions in terms of, yes,
(45:30):
people are going to want to befriends with you.
And yes, there are guys who willwant to be with you.
Yeah, no, I'm not.
I, I don't, I dunno if there'sanything else I can actually say
that, uh, has any insightwithout accidentally spoiling at
least a hundred pages of thebook?
Speaker 1 (45:49):
No, we definitely don't wanna spoil anything.
Um, I think part of the reason Iask is because I, I felt like
there was such wonderfulchemistry in these, this group
of girls.
Um, and just as I was readingit, I just found myself thinking
about that and how they interactwith each other in different
ways.
They interact with Tanya indifferent ways and yet, so many
(46:12):
of like the hallmarks of aromance story, um, being there
for each other and supportingeach other, getting to know each
other, they were there, but ofcourse it's, you know, more
platonic and yet still, youknow, kind of in a beautiful
way, like hitting all of thosesame notes.
Um, and so it just kind of mademe think about it.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah.
I think, I think that one forall is like, okay, well, I did
say that, you know, the lovestory and one for all is Tanya
learning to love herself.
I do think that there are thesedifferent elements of love
stories and different elementsof love, cuz there's familial
love in terms of Tanya'srelationship with her Papa and
her and her all, but there'salso her friendship with the
(46:55):
girls and her.
I mean, it goes, it it'ssisterhood and her, um, you
know, redacted relationships.
Um,
Speaker 1 (47:06):
OK.
I have one last question.
Um, before we move on ourlightning round, um, in your
bio, if it might be outdated,cuz sometimes bios are outdated,
but it said that you arecurrently getting your master's
degree.
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
It is a little bit outdated actually.
Um, it is it's it's so Iofficially graduate.
Did I officially grad?
I, I mean I, the diploma isbeing sent to me from across the
ocean.
Uh, did
Speaker 1 (47:36):
You just use the words?
Did I officially graduate?
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Well, it's, it's hard in COVID times.
We don't really have graduationceremonies anymore in person.
Um, and uh, it was very, veryodd, uh, especially because with
writing it's so different thanwhen you're in a field or a
subject like economics or evenhistory, or you might have some
(48:00):
final exams, you might have somefinal papers, but you will have
some final exams and for my maand creative writing post
fiction, it was you hand overyour, your dissertation and
you're finished bye now.
So, uh, yes, so I, I, Iofficially have my ma that's, it
(48:22):
feels very strange.
Just say out loud.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Well, congratulations.
Thank
Speaker 2 (48:26):
You.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Um, so I know, I mean a lot of our listen are students
in high school or in college.
Um, and I also know, uh, Iremember those days and how hard
it could be to find time towrite for myself as opposed to
just always working on, youknow, things I was doing for
school.
(48:48):
Um, so here you are, you've beengetting your degree and also
having this book come out,
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
What are maybe a couple of tips, um, or some
advice that you would give tosomeone who is in that position
and struggling to make time fortheir, um, their personal
passion writing?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Uh, well, first of all, I would say
congratulations, cause this isthe, the dynamic is difficult.
Um, and I don't think I realizedhow difficult it was going to be
until I actually started theprogram.
Um, because I, I wrote, I, Iwrote and I queried and I became
(49:28):
agent and I went on submissionwhile I was still an undergrad.
So, so I still managed to findtime to write for myself then,
but there's this shift when youget a book deal.
And I mean, of course it's, it'sa huge, huge privilege to be
able to say that this is acareer, that this is my job, but
(49:54):
it becomes you're, you're notjust writing for yourself
anymore.
You're writing in terms of, youknow, you're under contract, you
know, you, you have a book, soyou have deadlines to meet.
Um, and so that started when Iwas at school and for some
reason I, all of my deadlinesfor my books seem to magically
(50:16):
line up with my deadlines forschool as
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Well's so funny.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Me too.
I think it was either my second,my second round of edits, uh,
lined up with my very first dayof, uh, my master's program.
And then, uh, the legitimatelythe hour, the, the same hour
that I finished my last class ofright before, uh, winter break
(50:46):
got copy edits in my inbox orone for all there's no rest, no
break.
Um, but what I learned is thatone, um, it's really important
to find balance and everybodywill say that, but the key is to
(51:07):
find your balance because somepeople will say, oh, you have to
have this amount of time foryourself.
And this amount of time towrite, or you need to write this
amount every day, which is a lieand it's ableist and sexist and
classist and all those otherthings.
So just, you know, throw thatwhole entire idea away.
Um, so you're a writer still, ifyou don't write every day,
(51:30):
that's fine.
Um, but it's about finding abalance that works for you and,
you know, preserves your ownmental health and emotional
health because at the end of theday, those are the two most
important things and physicalhealth, of course.
Um, so, uh, I did a lot ofediting, uh, and then going to
(51:54):
workshop or, um, workshopping myown classmates work.
Um, I'm a bit of a nerd, which Ithink most writers are, but, um,
I'm a nerd, so I really enjoydoing workshops and on other
people's work and gettingfeedback.
So, uh, I would get all of thatdone really quickly.
(52:17):
Um, of course I would, I wouldtake my time and dedicate time
to it.
I don't wanna make it sound likein case all the off chance any
of my cohort is listening in andthen going Lily, did you not
actually give us thoroughfeedback to, uh, but, um, I
would do all of it at when I gotat the beginning of the week.
And then I would have a certainamount of days in between that
(52:42):
day and the next workshop.
So I would devote those days toworking on one for all and on
edits.
I, I think it was also reallyhelpful that I, I have a really
great team behind me and, and myagent and my editor and
everybody at FSG.
So, um, I don't think there wasa time when I needed an
(53:04):
extension while I was at UEA,but, but I also did know that if
I need needed to ask for onethat I would get it.
And I think that that's alsoimportant and it's important to
find a, a, a good editor who,you know, is going to have your
back when it comes to makingsure that one you're healthy,
(53:27):
you're safe, but also makingsure that, you know, you, you
both want the book to be thebest book that it can be.
And if that means taking a fewextra weeks, then that means
taking a few extra weeks,obviously as a DB author, that's
a bit different for me because,you know, for somebody like you,
who, you know, you have lots ofdeadlines and lots of books, so
(53:48):
it's more rigid.
Um, but, uh, for me, becausethere was this very long lead up
time to the book publication, Ihad wiggle room, uh, looking
back.
I think that that was really theonly way that I managed it
because my gosh, I mean, theamount of work combined with
(54:09):
edits was just, it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Yeah, no, it is a lot.
Um, and I think people aresurprised when I tell them that
I am like routinely asking forextensions.
Um, and there was a time in mycareer where I felt really weird
about that and like, I'd failedsomehow, but of like we were
talking before that sometimesyou just need to ask for help.
Um, and sometimes you just needa little bit more time and like
(54:34):
you say, it's in everyone's bestinterest to have the best book
possible.
So if you need some extra time,that's okay.
Ask for it.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
All right.
Are you ready for a bonus round?
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
All right.
Cake or pie?
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Oh, no, this is, so I thought these were gonna quick
questions.
Um, I'm gonna say, oh, cake, butchocolate flour cake,
specifically
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Plotter or pants.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Oh, pants,
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Fancy ball gown or comfortable breaches
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Ball gown,
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Opulent, palace, or cozy cottage
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Cottage
Speaker 1 (55:27):
In your ball gown.
Yes.
What is your favorite part ofwriting?
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Oh, uh, drafting, right when you get a new idea.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Hmm.
How about your least favoritepart of writing?
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Editing, editing, definitely editing.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Oh, uh, legend.
Born by Traci Dion.
Mm,
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Good one good choice.
She was on this podcast forpeople who haven't listened to
her episode.
She was phenomenal.
Uh, what are you working onnext?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
That is a really good question.
Um, and, uh, it's not one, Idon't, it's not one that I, I, I
know really how to answerbecause, um, I'm waiting on, uh,
my editor's feedback.
Um, but I, I am working on waytoo many novels right now.
(56:27):
Um, I think there's four or five, uh, and I'm working on the
novel that I was working on formy ma, which is adult literary
fiction.
I'm working on three differentYas.
Um, and, uh, the Y that I thinkwill pro I don't, I so hard to
say now, and I don't wanna jinxanything.
(56:47):
Um, it, it leans more fantasy,so more magic, but of course
swords, because there mustalways be swords.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
I mean, you've got all that fencing experience.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
I've gotta use it.
I've so
Speaker 1 (57:03):
What a totally use skill for a writer who would've
thought lastly, where can peoplefind you?
Speaker 2 (57:10):
People can find me at Lily layoff on Twitter and
Instagram.
Uh, my website iswww.lilylayoff.com.
And there, you can find all thelinks to pre-order one for, um,
how to find signed copies, whichare being provided through east
city bookshop fund preordercampaign and library request,
(57:33):
campaign giveaways, likecharacter art, whole deal, uh,
and also, uh, my work that'scurrently in print and, uh, work
that is upcoming and, uh, placeswhere one for all will be
publishing in the near future.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Excellent.
Lily, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Thank you so much for having me.
I had such a good time.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
I did too readers.
Definitely check out one for allit is coming out tomorrow on
March 8th.
Of course, we encourage you tosupport your local indie
bookstore.
If you can, if you don't have alocal indie, you can check out
our affiliate store atbookshop.org/shop/marisa Meyer.
Next week, I will be talkingwith joy L Smith about her debut
(58:20):
ballet inspired young adultnovel turning.
If you're enjoying theseconversations, please subscribe
and follow us on Instagram atMarisa Meyer author and at happy
writer podcast until next timestay healthy, stay cozy and
whatever life throws at youtoday.
I hope that now you're feeling alittle bit happier.
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