January 16, 2023 • 58 mins
Marissa chats with Adrienne Young and Isabel Ibañez about their new co-authored writing resource - THE STORYTELLER’S WORKBOOK: AN INSPIRATIONAL, INTERACTIVE GUIDE TO THE CRAFT OF NOVEL WRITING - as well as a shared nostalgia for school librarians and journalism classes; the reality of how much of our careers we really have control over, and where we should be putting most of our focus and energy; creating boundaries on social media; tips for tackling writer's block; and the myriad ways "The Storyteller's Workbook" can assist in writing and publishing your novel - from developing characters, to coming up with titles, to tracking your progress, to writing your query, and so much more. Plus, we talk about our goals for the new year and dreaming for the future!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Happy, happy New Year, and welcome to the 2023
season of the Happy Writer.
This is a podcast that aims tobring readers more books to
enjoy and to help authors findmore joy in their writing.
I am your host, Marissa Meyer.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope that you all had awonderfully joyful holiday
(00:33):
season, and that you are cominginto the start of the new year
full of energy and inspiration.
And I hope that you're ready totackle some big writing goals.
Uh, I know I am, I have so manythings that I am eager to get
started on, or some various backburner projects that I've been
(00:54):
dabbling in this last month, andI am just overflowing with good
writing energy right now.
So let's hope that thatcontinues.
Um, and it does make this aperfect episode to be starting
out the new year, uh, based onthe book we're gonna be talking
about today.
(01:15):
But before we get to that, uh,one thing making me happy this
week, actually, really thiswhole winter season is our
fireplace.
Um, I did not do a whole lot ofactual writing over our break,
but I have been doing a ton ofplanning and researching and
(01:36):
brainstorming and reading, andthere were hours and hours in
which I just sat by our firewith my notebook in hand and a
cup of tea.
And it has been so cozy and sorelaxing, and it has made for a
few weeks, in which I have justbeen constantly reminded of how
(01:57):
much I love what I do, and Ijust feel so lucky that I get to
call this my job.
Um, so yeah, getting to work infront of your fireplace,
definitely one of life's littlejoys, and I am so happy to be
talking to today's guests.
Adrian Young is the New YorkTimes and international
(02:19):
bestselling author of the Skyand Sea Duology, the Fable
Series, and spells forforgetting.
Isabelli Banez is anaward-winning designer and the
author of Woven and Moonlightwritten in Starlight.
And together we burn.
She also holds the highlycoveted honor of being the first
(02:40):
guest to appear twice on theHappy Writer Podcast.
No kidding.
You are.
You are indeed theirnewest project.
The Storytellers workbook andinspirational interactive guide
to the Craft of novel writingcame out last month.
Please welcome Adrian Young andIsabel Ibanez.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Hey guys.
Hello.
This is Isabel, by the way.
.
This is Adrian establishedvoices.
Adrian's voice Yes.
Establishing voices.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Uh, hello and welcome.
I'm so delighted to have you andvery grateful that you are here
to be our first guest of theyear.
How are you both doing?
How was your holiday?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I feel like it passed by and such a blur as you know,
holidays often do familycooking, baking, all of the
things, and we drove todifferent family homes, and so
we were in the car a lot, so wewere listening to a lot of
podcasts, actually.
Yeah, I feel like mine was ablur too.
(03:47):
We, um, I was sick for a coupleof weeks and that really took me
down for the count and made itto where we didn't, I don't know
, it just felt like everythingwas very dream-like and hazy.
I remember Christmas morning,and then I remember going back
to sleep, you know, likethat kinda stuff.
(04:07):
So I'm actually kind ofstruggling to feel like, fully
feel like it's the new year.
Um, I'm waiting for that feelingto kick in because it's, there's
a little bit of a lag happening,I think.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.
I hope you're feeling better.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I am, I'm feeling so much better.
I'm definitely on the mend.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Good.
I think you'll have to like plana, like, you know, December
15th, we're gonna celebrate thenew year and just like, pretend
that we're starting over now
Speaker 2 (04:33):
To get that by.
That's kinda how I feel.
Yeah.
I'm kinda like, you know what?
It's not the new year this week,like, that's later that's, we're
gonna gear up towards, I feellike I need to build some
momentum toward it becausenormally I love the new year and
I just hit it, like hit theground running and I'm like,
ready for it.
And this year I'm like, wait,what?
Where am I?
(04:53):
Who am I?
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, no, I, I get that.
Um, I know I, I didn't do itintentionally, but somehow my
writing schedule, I've kind offallen into this pattern where
December tends to be like mywell filling month.
Um, and I love that so muchwhere then I have all of
December to kind of relax andrejuvenate and just think about
(05:16):
all the stories.
Uh, and, and now of course Ihave this just ridiculous to-do
list and all of these goals forthe new year, and I'm like, okay
, let's get this done.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Alright, ladies, the first thing that I would like to
ask you both, I'd love to hearyour author Origin stories.
How did you become writers?
How did we get here?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Adriannene you go.
Okay.
Well, um, I just always dream,honestly, from a very young age,
elementary school, I dreamed ofbeing an author.
It's definitely a dream cometrue for me, a lifelong dream.
Um, I, how that was kind of bornin me was, I was in trouble a
lot in school and I got kickedout of my classroom a lot
(06:04):
and sent to the library becausemy teacher didn't wanna deal
with me.
And so the library kind ofbecame my little haven and I
became friends with LibraryCrochety, old librarian.
And, um, I, that's kind of wheremy like relationship with books
and stories was born.
And I still have a very visceralmemory of standing in that
(06:28):
library and imagining my ownname on the cover of a book.
And so I feel like it's beenwith me a really long time.
But, you know, as I got older, Ireally didn't think it was a
very, um, viable or realisticdream.
And so it was kinda that thingin the back of my head, but I
didn't think I would actactually wind up doing ever and
(06:49):
didn't have plans to activelypursue it, even though I was
writing all growing up.
And I'm not exaggerating when Isay it was literally the only
thing I was good at as a kid.
Like, I wasn't good at anysports, I wasn't good at any
other subjects.
I just, writing was a thing thatreally gave me confidence.
And then I got older, probablymy mid, early to mid twenties is
(07:13):
when I kind of revisited thatmindset and was like, actually,
you know what?
I think I might wanna go for it.
And so I did.
I queried a few books, um,before I finally sold my debut
novel, which was Sky in the Deep, and it was a Viking inspired
fantasy, young adult fantasy.
And, um, the rest is kind ofhistory from there.
It's been a very wild ridesince.
(07:34):
I love it.
What a punishment to be sent tothe library.
.
Yeah.
.
I know you heard more thing.
I know.
Um, Lizelle, how about you?
Well, this is so funny, but it,it jogged like this suppressed
memory, uh, your story a littlebit.
(07:54):
Um mm-hmm.
, when I was inmiddle school, I transferred
schools and, uh, when I was thatage, I was actually very shy and
deeply insecure.
Um, I had like theclassic, you know, I would
bring, bring to the school like,um, home cooked meals and it
(08:15):
would be like bivian inspiredfood and everybody would laugh
at me.
And so lunch, seriously, I wouldbring like Saban or something
and people would be like, what'sthat?
Is that a weird hot pocket?
hot Pocket?
Weird.
And so I, I really struggled to,uh, be in the same cafeteria as
(08:35):
the rest of my peers.
And because I didn't really knowanybody.
And so I would run away to thelibrary and I became very good
friends with the librarian whowas the wife of the headmaster.
And she, uh, I think just reallyfelt sorry for me, but she ended
up giving me a lot of books toread and I fell in love with it.
And then at home, my mother hada very strict no television
(08:59):
during the week rule.
And I played one sport, I playedsoccer, but I, I didn't, I
wasn't in love with it the waythat my father and brother were,
but I did really love to read.
And so I think that this waskind of like the origin story of
me asking for journals and, youknow, diaries and things like
that.
And I began to write and then onfamily trips to Bolivia, I
(09:22):
remember carting around likethese journals and I would be
sitting at the dinner table, mycousins around me, and I would
be writing a story.
I really just kind of, um, notput that together, but just kind
of remembered that feeling ofwanting to escape to the library
and being fed a lot of books.
So, yeah.
Um, I, from there, I reallywanted to be a writer.
(09:44):
Uh, but like Adrian, I did notrealize it was a real job.
I thought going to college meantI needed to be, you know, like a
doctor, a teacher, lawyer,something like that.
And I had, I really had no idea.
And so I, what I ended uppicking was journalism.
And I went to, I was at NYU and,um, studying journalism and
super bad at it.
(10:05):
And I remember one day runningto the, not literally running,
because I don't run, Adrian canattest to this, but I went to, I
went to the Barnes and Noble inUnion Square, which is right
next to my dorm.
And I went, and at that pointthere was no young adult
section.
And so I went to the kidssection, I think because it was
just bright and cheery and therewere stuffed animals and, you
(10:27):
know, whatever.
And I sat down on the corner ofthis area and I, and I looked
across from me and there wasthis shelf with like all of
these books.
And in front of me was The Spinefor the Goose Girl by Shannon
Hale.
And I picked it up and I read itcover to cover, I bought it and
I realized that's, I, that'swhat I wanted to do with my
(10:49):
life.
I really wanted to give it a go.
And so I left nyu, moved backhome to Florida, changed my
major from journalism tocreative writing, and really
tried to pursue writing eversince.
Um, but it wasn't until muchlater as I realized, you know,
publishing a book in thiscountry is actually very hard.
And I, I took a detour and Iended up studying graphic
(11:11):
design.
I started a design in letterpress studio in my twenties.
And then I, I still reallymissed writing.
And I eventually got married andI was on a honeymoon with my
husband, and I was inspired towrite this Latina Pirate story
and I finished it.
And that wasn't the book thatgot me the a the my agent, my
(11:35):
first agent.
But it was the book that taughtme how to write the story.
And from there, I think the restwas history.
I sat down, wrote, woven, andMoonlight.
And that was the book that gotme my agent.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh my gosh, I love it.
I also very briefly dabbled injournalism.
Um, I, oh, signed up for ajournalism class in college and
I went, and on day one Iremember the teacher talking
about how everything you writehas to be true.
Like if you're, you're puttingout mm-hmm.
an article, itmust fall based entirely.
(12:07):
In fact, you cannot embellish,you cannot exaggerate.
And I left that class and wentstraight to the counselor and
was like, this is not for me.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
.
Oh my,
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I had
Speaker 2 (12:19):
A very similar experience.
My teacher was, would mark meall the time for using too many
adjectives.
Cause I was being, I wasexaggerating.
I was embellishing.
He's like, you're puttingyourself way too much into this
and it needs to be devoid of anypersonality.
You are relaying information andit has to be accurate.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh,.
(12:40):
Well, I'm super dramatic, sothat's not gonna work for me.
,
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right?
Yes.
What other options are there?
?
Um, alright, so now of courseyou are well into your writing
careers.
You've published a number ofyoung adult works, um, and now
you have joined forces to bringus this lovely craft guide slash
workbook, the storytellersworkbook.
(13:06):
Tell listeners a little bit,what is this book?
What can they expect from it,and how did it come to be?
Um, Isabel, what do you wannakick it off?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Sure.
So the Storyteller's Workbook isa companion and it's meant to be
a useful functional tool for anybudding writer or, um, novelist
that already has some books out.
And it's, it's going to walk youthrough from start to finish the
process of writing a book.
(13:37):
And so there's gonna becharacter worksheets and world
building, um, worksheets.
Uh, my favorite component of it,there's an actual like, guide to
building a map of your world,but there's brainstorming pages.
There's like these pseudo, uh,index cards for anything you
want, kind of like a chapter, ascene, what have you.
(13:58):
So there's plenty of space tofree-write, but it feels very
guided at the same time.
So our hope is that you won'tget lost, but that you have
enough freedom to really play,to really dream and to kind of
layer your story however youwant using the tools that you
can find in the workbook.
Um, and then the second half ofthe workbook is a comprehensive,
(14:19):
I think, in my opinion, butreally comprehensive, just start
to how to get your book outthere.
And it, like, it covers how towrite a great pitch, a synopsis.
It, um, has examples of ourquery letters that has been kind
of picked apart.
And, um, there are examples ofhow to craft your own query
(14:39):
letter.
And then from there, at the veryback of the book, um, there is
an, um, agent query tracker.
So there's like boxes and youcan fill out, okay, this is when
I queried this agent from thisagency, and this is their
preferences.
This is, this is theirrequirements and what have you.
So it's really got a little ofeverything and it's not, um,
(15:00):
we're not necessarily doinganything new, but what it is is
that it's a whole collectionmeant to be super inspiring and
to kind of just be a part ofyour writing journey.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
I think it's, you know, the, thething about the workbook is that
everything is just in one placeand it's sequential.
(15:20):
Yes.
So you kind of, you start at thebeginning with ideas and
research and brainstorming allof that, and then it kind of
holds your hand a little bit asyou set and track and achieve
your goals for actually draftingyour manuscript and then takes
you on from there.
And, um, mm-hmm.
, we, it, the wayit came to be is that we, I had
(15:44):
recently launched a writer'sworkshop called Writing With the
Soul, and I absolutely loveddoing that work.
Um, I, I still read it and Istill love it, but, um, I think
it really kind of brokesomething open in me where I was
kind of thinking more alongthese lines of putting more
tools for writers andinspiration out there for
(16:05):
writers.
And, um, so I was kind ofmulling over this idea of
creating some kind of workbookor, um, you know, just something
that had everything in oneplace.
And Isabel and I are friends inreal life, and so I often go to
Isabel, I still do go to her toverbally process and brainstorm
(16:27):
all of my ideas and, youknow, whatever.
And she, because of herbackground in design and art and
layout and all of those things,she just had such a wealth of
knowledge coming from a totallydifferent side of that world.
And I realized like, oh my God,this, I actually don't have the
skillset to pull this off bymyself.
(16:49):
And she had so many amazingideas too about the content that
I was like, how about we just dothis together?
And lo luckily she was down forit and our agents were excited
about it.
And so we got to work on it.
And, um, it took, what, what doyou think?
Maybe like between, we wereworking on it between deadlines
and things, and so it probablytook about a year and a half to
(17:11):
actually finish it, but um, nowit's out in the world, which is
just really funny cuz it startedas random phone calls and random
conversations over coffee and,you know, things like that.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So how often, once you started actually pulling it
together and, and writing it andfiguring out what would be
included, how much did it changeand grow from that first
original concept?
Like, were you constantly addingnew things, like, oh, what if we
had a section about this?
What if we had a section aboutthis?
Or did you kind of have itfigured out from the beginning?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
No, I, I mean, I, I wouldn't say so.
I, I think that we had a very,or Adrian did, had a very, like,
here's what I, here's what I'mthinking.
But when we got into the weeds,we quickly started adding so
many different elements thatwere a surprise.
Like, there's, um, a section inthe workbook, it's like, it's,
we call it the writer woods.
(18:11):
And so there are literal treesthat people can color in every
time they achieve some, somekind of, you know, uh, like if
they, if they hit a thousandwords, if they wrote a chapter
that day, they can color in atree and they can mark their
progress that way.
But there's so many littleinstances like that where we're,
we're just, you know how it is,like you're talking with
somebody and you're in tune andin sync.
(18:32):
And so an idea will happen andthen it, that idea becomes a
little bit more fleshed out andthen another idea kind of
piggybacks off of that.
So the workbook really bloomed,I think, while we were working
on it.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I love the writing words.
I think that is such a
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Cute Oh yeah, I do too.
I think that's, that's one ofmy, one of my favorite parts.
Um, but yeah, I think it, wealso kind of realized in
fleshing it out that there weresome things that we had in the
list of ideas that were a littleredundant or, um mm-hmm.
, you know, thingsthat we could have expanded on
(19:07):
that we weren't sure about.
And so it did, it did take awhile to like fully take shape
and get into like an order.
Um, originally it wasn't in twoparts.
Like right now it's like partone, get the story down, part
two, get the story out there.
Um, that was a much laterdevelopment, like really at the
end when we realized, yeah, like, oh, this is kind of like two
(19:28):
sections.
Oh.
Like, stuff like that.
So I really that some of thatstuff we didn't really figure
out until we started seeing,seeing it, you know, like the
actual like layout of things.
Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So the Woods definitely is maybe my favorite
part cuz it's so unique in sucha fun way.
And there's so many differentways that authors can track
their progress, but I think it'sa really cute visual detail.
One of my other favorite partsis that you have a section with
advice and suggestions for howto title your work.
(20:06):
Oh
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And I feel like titling, it's one of those
questions, how do you come upwith your titles?
Is it gets asked over and overand I never have a good answer
for it.
It's like, it seems like one ofthose, I don't know, the magic
of writing it pops into yourhead and ta-da.
Um, but I love that you kind ofbroke down some like really
(20:28):
practical steps for how peoplecan come up with a title.
So that was also one of myfavorite parts.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's, I love that you, I love that you feel that
way.
We, um, Adrian and I are in agroup text and no joke, we will
toss around so many differentwords and different titles and
it's part of the process.
Sometimes it's very,sometimes it's for like days or
(20:56):
months, like, yes.
Yes.
And so honestly like the, thatwhole title section really, I, I
maybe even subconsciously isborn outta these text message
threads.
We're, we're all just kind ofbouncing off these adjectives
and themes from the book.
And all of us are trying tolike, figure out a tricky title
for a story.
(21:16):
I know Adrian has certainly beenthere, I have been there, but
yeah.
Um, yeah.
So I love that you love thatpart.
I hope that it's useful.
We both do, obviously, but yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
, the thing I likeabout that worksheet in
particular, and, and really thiswas kind of the intent with the
workbook as a whole, was not totell anyone how to do something,
but rather just help themorganize their own thoughts and
(21:40):
inspiration.
Because I'm a really bigbeliever that like, of like the
magic is already in you typemindset, you know, where, um,
you just, sometimes you need tojust organize your thoughts and
let things come to the surface.
You don't necessarily needsomeone to give you all the
wisdom.
And so the workbook is very muchintended to be that for people
(22:01):
where it's kind of just stirringthe pot and asking you guiding
questions along the way andtrying to pinpoint the things
that are already kind ofhappening in your brain and in
your, like, subconscious so thatyou can like put them in order
or, you know, highlight thestrengths and whatever.
So I think sometimes I know forme that's really helpful.
(22:23):
Like when I'm talking tosomebody, I'm trying to figure
something out and they're askingme those very like, diagnostic
questions that kind of helps mecome to my own conclusion.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Sure.
And a good reminder too, that weare all a little different.
No writer does things exactlythe same way.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And yes, that is one of the wonderful things about
this workbook is that it is, itis very open.
There's, it's full of blankpages, notebook, pages,
brainstorming, drafting pages,calendars, but it's, it, it
gives the user so many differentoptions, different ways that you
(23:01):
can use this.
It doesn't necessarily say youhave to do it our way, um mm-hmm
.
, and yet at thesame time is packed full with
really practical, actionabletips and advice.
Um, so I think it's just areally wonderful balance for
people
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We really want.
So a little backstory there forthat, it, Adrian and I, um,
approach drafting and story alittle bit differently.
And so it was very important forboth of us that anybody could
pick up the workbook and itwould be useful to them no
matter if they were, say, aplotter or a cancer.
(23:43):
Mm-hmm.
, we wanted it toappeal to anybody who might
craft a story in a completelydifferent way.
They might do bubble outlines,they might do very, like, they
might do chapter outlines,whatever it is.
But we wanted it to still feellike it was a practical tool in
that it didn't pigeonholesomebody into a direction where
they really didn't wanna go.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, I know for me, one of the sections that as I
was going through the book, uh,I came to the character
worksheet and it is so in depth.
Um, and so well thought out justall of the different things that
you could include about yourcharacters, things that you
could think about, not that youhave to, not that you have to
(24:28):
fill out the entire profile.
Um, but there's really a lot ofwonderful and rich ways to think
about each character andwhatever works for the writer
they can use.
And I remember when I got tothose pages, I was like, oh,
this is so useful and I cannotwait to go and create some
character profiles using me.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
.
Yeah.
That was the character profileworksheet is something that I, I
made years ago on my computerfor myself, like, and it was
just like a exercise whenever Ifelt stuck with a character,
wasn't totally sure aboutsomething.
And, um, I have given it away alot, like several times as like
(25:09):
a little free thing for writers,you know, that type of thing.
But we, I feel like Isabelle,didn't we maybe add a little bit
to it?
Maybe I feel like it, we mighthave, um, it might have evolved
a little bit from my originalversion, but it was just a
collection of things that, likeI had thought of over years and
questions I had begun to askmyself or things I'd heard other
(25:32):
authors and writers say ininterviews.
Like, I always try to thinkabout this with my characters
and I would make a little noteof that and try to kind of
compile a holistic view ofcharacter.
And I think sometimes when youcan answer these questions about
the character, it unlocks thingsthat you don't even realize it's
gonna unlock.
Not just about that character,but like their dialogue or the
(25:52):
plot or their arc.
You know, all these things thatyou're not necessarily able to
see right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Are there any sections in thisworkbook that you are
particularly excited to usegoing forward?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I am excited about the revision, like this section
that's like a revisionchecklist, because I do this in
my notebook all the time.
And in the workbook we, I mean,again, you can use it however
you want, but we kind of arelike, this is how we like to
think about it.
These like levels, you know, bigthings, medium things, little
(26:30):
things.
And being able to have them allin one place and to keep a
running list of things.
Like, there's also a spot inthere, like you can keep a
running list of, like, when I'mreading through my revisions,
I'm sure both of you do thistoo, too, or like, you notice
this too.
You start realizing about fivechapters in that you've used a
certain specific word, like 18times mm-hmm.
(26:52):
, you know mm-hmm.
.
And so then like, I, I'm alwayslike making lists of things like
that so I can like word searchthem later or whatever.
And so I think having that inthe workbook, that was a big
priority for me in the workbookbecause I always build out
in-depth re revision plans and Iwanted a space for that, and I
will definitely use it.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Honestly, for me, one , the, the thing that I love to
do is all of the planning aheadof the drafting stage.
I really, um, I don't wanna sayhate because that is too strong
of a word.
I feel like I wanna be done withdrafting as soon as possible
.
And what helps, what helps me isto make sure that all of my
(27:37):
ducks are in a row.
And so the character world were,uh, building sheets, the world
building sheets, um, all ofthose really help.
Uh, and I'm excited to use, tohelp me to draft that much
faster so that I can get to myfavorite part, which is the
revising part.
I really love to revise.
I don't actually think I'm astrong writer, but I do think
(27:58):
that I'm a very good rewriter.
And so I, for me, it's just allof the little planning details
that are at the front of theworkbook that I'm excited to use
because I know that it's goingto make my life so much easier
when I am in that drafting mode.
Mm-hmm.
.
Mm-hmm.
.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
And then what about for the people who pick up this
book, whether they're newwriters, maybe just starting out
on their very first novel, ormaybe they're old experts and
they're just looking for somenew way to plan or organize
themselves.
Uh, of course there's no reallyright or wrong way to use this
(28:35):
book, but if you could like,give someone a tip for like, how
to get the most out of it, whatwould you suggest?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Um, well, we've been using, I was gonna say we've
been using the word playground alot when we're talking about
this, um, this workbook becauseI mean, I would just encourage
people to play, like, to notfeel like you have to do it a
certain way to not feel like ithas to look all beautiful, like
with this perfect outlineinside, like the, the point of
(29:04):
the workbook is to be able tohave the freedom to just play
around.
And something that I've learnedthrough the years as a writer,
um, and I think a lot of writersget to this place, is that you
can consume all the craftmaterials in the world and you
should, right?
I mean, that's part of uslearning and growing as writers,
but a lot of it is not gonnaapply to us because it's not
(29:27):
gonna fit into our naturalprocess, or our process is gonna
shift over time.
And so mm-hmm.
, I think a lot oftimes we hold ourselves to these
like rules.
Like, I work this way, myprocess is this way, I'm a
plotter, I'm a panther, I am,you know, I do this thing.
And so then like we kind of boxourselves in and we can't really
(29:49):
evolve outside of that.
And so I think that the workbookI, for somebody who like totally
fresh coming in, I would saydon't hold yourself to anything.
Like give it, give yourself thepermission to try a lot of
different techniques andapproaches and styles when it
comes to the actual process ofwriting.
(30:10):
And that's not only more fun,but it's also, I think in the
end, more productive.
I also, I don't know if thishappens to you too, a lot, but
this happened to me literallyyesterday where a friend of a
friend reached out and was like,Hey, I've got a friend.
They really wanna be published.
They have no idea where to startor what to do.
(30:30):
I, I feel like other than a, youknow, reading a craft book, the
workbook would be such a greattool.
If you are, when you are juststarting out, you're really
excited, you're motivatedbecause of the two-part
functionality of it.
So there is the part where youcan play, you know, and kind of
talking about what Adrian justmentioned, but like, play and be
(30:51):
able to discover your voice, beable to figure out the story
that you're telling and how whoyou are as a storyteller.
But then at the very back, um,we have laid out a kind of just
map to like, toward publicationand the steps that you need to
take to be able to be, uh,traditionally published.
And so for me, I'm, I'm reallyhappy actually kind of excited
(31:16):
that I can just say, Hey, haveyou looked at the storyteller's
workbook?
That would be a really greatkind of one all in all type
thing.
So it tells you about querying,it tells you about writing a
synopsis, it tells you aboutwriting a pitch, and then it
talks about agents, you know.
So I, um, for me at least, it'slike, it's got like that front
part where you can play.
(31:36):
And then there is that secondpart that is super practical
where I think a lot of peopleare hungry because researching
how to get published on theinternet is overwhelming.
You know, there are pages mm-hmm.
And pages mm-hmm.
On how, how do you do this?
But in the workbook, it haseverything kind of laid out in a
very concise way.
And it, of course, it's notcomprehensive, it doesn't have
(31:57):
all the things, but what it doesdo, it gives you like the, the
big highlights of what you needto pay attention to when you are
getting ready to get your storyout there.
Mm-hmm.
, which is awesome.
So you're not, I'm hoping thatpeople won't feel super
overwhelmed by that part of theprocess.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah.
No, that's an excellent point.
Um, because it is one of thosethings where of course this
information is already outthere, you know, of course with
a really deep dive, you canfigure out how to write a query
letter, you can figure out howto track what agents you're
querying mm-hmm.
, et cetera.
Mm-hmm.
, but it isdizzying the amount of
information Yes.
That is available.
(32:34):
Um, and for someone who reallydoesn't know anything about the
industry, and I get get thosesame questions too all the time,
how do you do this?
How does this even work?
What is a literary agent?
You know?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Um,
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So yeah, to have it all in one place is so handy.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Mm-hmm.
.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yes.
That's why we love it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Isabelle, I wanna know about the design aspect.
Um, this is, yeah, a verybeautifully designed book.
Um, every page has some sort ofdesign element on it.
It's very friendly, veryapproachable.
I'm just curious, like kind ofhow did you approach doing the
design and then how did that goas far as discussing with the
(33:17):
publisher?
Like, were they totally on board?
Was there any pushback there?
Like, uh, cuz there's so manycolors and, and all of this, and
just how, how did that go?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Um, really, I think because Adrian came with a lot
of the content of the workbook,um, stuff that she'd been
putting together with compilingand thinking about for years,
having all of the writing reallyhelped me think, oh, okay.
So in terms of layout, I don'twant to have a design that's
(33:50):
super overwhelming, busy,distracting, what really needs
to shine is the guidance.
It's the content, it's, youknow, the writing.
And so, um, when we were talkingabout the look and feel of the
workbook, we really wanted it tofeel organic.
We wanted it to feel beautiful,yes, but really functional.
(34:11):
And we didn't want the design toovertake any of the, the, you
know, the little guideposts thatyou can find throughout the
pages.
Um, so from there, I thinkreally what the first thing that
I think that we started withAdrianne, and correct me if I'm
wrong, was the cover, um mm-hmm.
.
And then from from the cover wepicked a really earthy, organic,
(34:35):
just, you know, not bright, notjarring color palette.
And when we got into the actualpages of the workbook, I kind of
kept the color palette to thatsame color family.
I loved using like the very, um,sagey greens, and then there's a
, a creamy color for the pages.
Um, I do love the color coral,so there's like a washed coral
(34:58):
on most of the pages wherepeople can write.
And so the other thing too isthat people are gonna be filling
out these pages no color, um,can distract from the writing
either.
So everything, whatever somebodyis writing, it still needs to be
legible and not hard to read,you know, all these things.
So really, um, Adrian and Iworked a lot together on trying
to make sure that this cover andthe workbook, it all felt
(35:23):
cohesive and beautiful and weplayed around a lot.
But I really do, I really dolove, um, love layout.
I love, because to me it workslike puzzle pieces.
It feels very logical to me.
And so figuring out out howthings are going to lay on a
page, the hierarchy, the how bigthe typeface is going to be or
(35:44):
font, um, is going to be, howmany lines are gonna be
dedicated, you know, for thissection or this section.
That's a lot of fun for me.
That feels like a really funchallenge to me.
Mm-hmm.
, I could do thatall day long.
I love it.
.
And then when we, um, when wegot ready to submit it, we had
Adrian, this, we had zeropushback, right.
(36:04):
There were no, the only reallything that, that we went around
in circles a little bit was withthe cover itself.
Um, but as far, as far as thepages, I think everybody was on
board with all of it.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, we, I feel like we werereally lucky to have a team that
was like, just excited about thevision, the creative vision, um,
(36:27):
even the art and visuals and allof that.
Um, I'm really, really happyabout that.
Uh, but mm-hmm.
, we, we did go alittle back and forth on the
cover, but I mean, it didn'ttake much to get there in the
end.
Mm-hmm.
, I think the onlything that wa that was, uh, more
complicated was that, you know,this was all in the height,
(36:50):
height of all of these supplychain and printing issues that
were happening, um, when thiswas getting ready, when we were,
uh, in the process of making it,but then also right before it
went to print.
So there were some like kind ofbells and wily type things that
we wanted, or originally we had,you know, envisioned that it
(37:13):
just was not gonna happen withthe printer because of
everything that was going on.
And none of it was things that,you know, none of them were like
deal breakers or heartbreaks oranything like that.
But, um, I think that was reallythe only thing we ran up
against.
It was kinda like we had to makesome compromises there.
Mm-hmm.
.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
(37:34):
Well, it turns out justabsolutely gorgeous.
It's a really, really lovelybook.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
We worked really hard on it.
I don't know when we worked onit, seems like a blur.
I don't either.
we've been trying tofigure that out.
We've literally been trying tothink like, when did we even do
(37:56):
this?
Like, I don't, no, I feel thatway about every book that I
write.
.
Yes.
Seriously.
Yes.
Seriously.
I do recall Adrian.
I do recall lots of coffee shopsand Yes.
Working through.
Yes, I remember that.
And then I also remember youcoming over to my house and pr
(38:17):
we were printing like the pagesout on my home computer and
trying to piece it together onwhat it would look like, even
like counting the pages to seehow thick it would be and if it
was thick enough if we needed toadd more content to it.
Mm-hmm.
, I remember kindof doing all those things, but
everything else beyond that,that is such a blur.
No idea.
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
That's funny.
No, it's a really fun book.
Um, but also super useful.
I can just imagine some writersbuying a new copy every time
they're starting a new book.
Like it's your, it's your littlecompanion.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah.
It's your little buddy.
It's your buddy.
And that's the hope, you know,I'm certainly gonna use it that
way.
Every time I have a project, Iwould love to use the workbook
for exactly that purpose.
Yeah.
It's such a great, it's, it'ssuch a great way to organize
everything in one place.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah.
No, and I am, I think it wasmentioned earlier, you know, the
lists, you know, just the randomlist everywhere.
I have the same way.
And I always have spiralnotebooks just spread out all
over my office and in my purse,in my backpack next to my bed.
And so they're just like filledwith the most random notes from
all these different projects andI'm like, oh, it would be so
(39:29):
nice to have everything in oneplace.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just all in one plane.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
.
All right.
I have a couple more questions,but we're gonna move away from
the Storyteller's workbook.
Um, before we do, is thereanything that we didn't touch on
that you just really want peopleto know about?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yes, there is one thing at the back of the book,
there are these really adorablestickers, and every time I look
at them, it makes me absurdlyhappy.
They're just really cute.
And you can put the stickershowever you want on the pages as
you are doing, as you're, youknow, working through your, your
(40:09):
novel.
But feel free, have fun.
They're my favorite.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I am so glad you pointed that out, because I did
not notice them.
And I've got that whatnext to me now, and I just
flipped back.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
They're are stickers.
.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yes.
Surprise.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Awesome.
I love it.
They're so cute.
I'm gonna put one of these on mylaptop.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Excellent.
I think, I don't know if you'vebeen seeing Isabelle, we've been
getting tagged in a lot ofpictures of where, like, how
people are using the stickersand like people are putting them
on their laptops, like right bytheir little mouse pad tracker
thing, like the keep writing,keep writing or, you know
mm-hmm.
, whatever.
And it's really fun to see howpeople are using them.
(40:55):
I love it.
It makes my heart melt a littlebit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
All right, A couple more questions.
Um, one that I ask all of ourguests, um, although Isabel, I
don't think I was asking it backwhen you were on before, so I
think it's new to you.
Um, I would love to hear fromyou both.
What do you feel is one of thebiggest challenges that you've
had to face so far in yourcareer?
And then how are you able toovercome that?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Hmm.
I, I can tell you right now, youdidn't ask me that, but go
ahead,
Speaker 1 (41:27):
.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Well, I feel, you know, I think that I really
struggled, um, especially in thebeginning with the, just the
difference between what it is todream of, like having your
published books out there andwriting your books all by
(41:50):
yourself to actually gettingthem out there.
And then everything that comeswith that.
Like, it's just, it's not, it'snot always exactly what you
think it is.
And even though it is absolutelymy dream, I wouldn't rather be
doing anything else.
Um, never in a million years.
I feel so lucky to be doing whatI'm doing.
(42:14):
There's a lot that comes withbeing an author in this day and
age that I just didn't bargainfor, like just soc social
media and like having a, like akind of persona type stuff.
Like having, uh, havingcriticism and feedback so
(42:34):
accessible to you.
Like it's just there all thetime.
Um, and even though I think it'sreally wonderful that we have
these platforms and things wherewe can like connect with readers
and see like how our work isimpacting people, and that's so
inspiring and motivating to me.
It's also been, you know, aprocess for me to kind of figure
(42:56):
out how do I fit into this andstill be authentically me and
still enjoy what I'm doing.
Um, Isabelle and I have talkedabout this so much mm-hmm.
just over theyears, and I think a lot of
authors can relate.
Um, so that's, that's kind ofbeen the big, big thing that
stands out to me, jumps out atme right now.
(43:17):
But I think how I've gottenthrough it is just not being
afraid to do things differentlythan maybe how people around me
are doing them.
Like, I think having that sameflexibility that we're talking
about with process and story andall of that, having that same
flexibility and approach to howwe're dealing with all this
(43:38):
other stuff and building theseother things, I think is so
important.
Because, you know, for some ofus, this might work really well,
and some of us maybe that's nothelpful or inspiring or healthy,
you know?
Mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
.
Um, there's been lots and lotsof talk about boundaries over,
you know, yeah.
The last several years as well.
(43:58):
Um, I feel like that's been abig thing for me and, um, kinda
just figuring out like how tonot lose myself and my voice and
my creativity in the midst ofall of that.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
There's so much of that that Ifeel very deeply.
Um, me too, me too.
(44:18):
Seriously.
I, I think for me, honestly,it's for the majority of my
career in publishing, and ithasn't been that long, it's
since 2020, a little before 2018is when woven and moonlight
sold, but I thought that amistakenly thought that a lot of
(44:40):
things were in my control.
And, but, and I know that soundsreally naive, but I guess I
mean, in the sense of if Ishowed up on social media
enough, if I posted enough, if Ihad a newsletter, if I had a, a
beautiful website, if I had Xamount of Twitter followers, if
I had reach, if I went to thisfestival and networked this way,
(45:04):
I would have some kind of, Iwould be changing the equation a
little bit in my favor, in mybook, might do well mm-hmm.
.
And I've since realized that Ihave been working way too hard
in the wrong areas.
Um, and in a lot of ways it'sbeen very freeing, uh, kind of
(45:24):
terrifying to acknowledge thatactually how successful a book
is is has little to do with me.
And the best thing that I can dois to write my favorite things,
to write the book that I want toread, you know, and to write the
best book that I can do.
But outside of all of that, andI know I can do my part with
(45:47):
social media and all of this,but it, there are so many, to
me, at least traps with socialmedia, especially those that can
attack, I think my creativity,um, even like mental health,
honestly, because, um, you know,at and at any given day, we
we're exposed to just a lot ofopinions and, you know, some
(46:08):
negativity as well surroundingour work that is by default,
very vulnerable.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I have been, I have beenjust realizing actually, you
know, I can, I can do the thingsthat I can do, but I do not have
to sweat so much.
I don't have to give so much ofmyself and work this hard when
(46:31):
really the outcome is not in mycontrol.
It's, it's really not.
Yeah.
So that has been eliminated.
It always comes back to thewriting.
You're right.
It does.
Yeah.
It really does.
And, and here's the, here's thereality too, is that there are
many books that have beenwritten superbly that are
wonderful, that, that don'thave, or that that hasn't found
(46:54):
its readers through no fault ofthe author.
Right.
It's just, it's a toughindustry.
It really is.
Um, so yeah, I think that I'vehad to let go of a lot of
things.
I think I've had to ask, Adrianand I have talked about this,
but like, why am I working sohard in this area when it, well,
seriously, what am I doing?
(47:15):
What am I doing?
Why, why am I, why am Istressing out so much?
Mm-hmm.
, and it's movingthe needle like this much anal
amount, you know?
And the other thing too, it'slike with social media, I love
being able, able to, you know,chat with readers to engage with
them.
I love sharing elements of mylife, but at the end of the day,
(47:37):
it is just a small amount of mylife and mm-hmm.
, I have so manyother things, but for a long
time I felt like my presence,that platform had to be larger
than it was.
And I don't mean following, Ijust meant in how much it took
over my, my life.
I felt like I had to give it a,a larger slice of the pie, so to
(47:59):
speak, because I thought that'sthe way to succeed.
But now I realize I don't reallyneed to do that.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
No, it kind of reminded me, uh, why I wanted to
do this podcast to begin withmm-hmm.
.
Um, it's just, you know, thisreminder that success is not a
given and bestseller dom is nota given.
And even if you do reach thosethings, they don't necessarily
bring happiness and fulfillment.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah.
But
Speaker 1 (48:28):
If you have a joy for the writing, if you love the
writing, then you can alwayscome back to that.
Mm-hmm.
.
And I think that's reallyimportant for us to try to
remember.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah.
I think that's, I think that'sreally, really true.
Yes.
Really, really true.
And it isn't, um, I think for along time too, I don't know if
you felt the way, um, but I feltlike I had to really pay
attention to the market and whatwas trending and what readers
wanted.
Mm-hmm.
.
And that is an impossible metricto hit and ultimately deeply,
(49:02):
deeply dissatisfying.
And so it really is aboutwriting and I, I really mean
this, but like, writing myfavorite things, writing my
favorite tropes, situations,scenes, worlds, conversations,
things that I would be giddy,you know, to read about.
That's what I wanna payattention to.
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Alright, my last question before the bonus round,
since this is our first episodeof the New Year, what is your
New Year's resolution, or if youdon't do resolutions, what is
your biggest goal for this
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Year?
.
Oh man.
You go first, Adrian.
Oh, man.
Well, like I said, I'm notreally in New Year head space,
but I
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Know, I know you're like, my goal is to feel like
it's the New York
Speaker 2 (49:53):
.
But no, I, I mean, I do havesome overall, you know,
directions, um, that I'm tryingto go.
I, I definitely am kind of focus.
I just debuted in adult fictionand the fall, which was a huge,
wonderful thing for me.
I, I just, that's something Ireally has been a goal of mine
(50:16):
since before I published myfirst young adult novel.
And so, um, I really felt like Ikind of was opening a new
chapter and, um, I, of courseI'm gonna gonna, I'm still
publishing young Adult as wellcause I love it so much.
And, um, I can't imagine notdoing it.
Um, but I think this year I'mkind of trying to hone in on,
(50:38):
uh, the adult fiction and justwhat that's gonna look like for
me, what my, what kind of workdo I wanna do in this space.
And, um, I have one, my bookcoming out this fall is my
second adult novel.
Um, so I think I'm just tryingto kind of wrap my head around
like, what, what do I see forthe future in this space and how
(51:00):
does it fit into what I'malready doing?
What, you know, what does Adrianas an author and five years look
like, 10 years look like?
And I feel like I've been sobusy over, you know, since even
right before the pandemic that Ihaven't really been thinking as
like long term.
Like I haven't been dreaminglong term.
I've been dreaming in the shortterm.
(51:20):
And so I'm trying to kind of reI don't know, imagine some
things mm-hmm.
.
Hmm.
I think, um, Adrian and I talkedabout this a little bit, or I
was brainstorm.
I really love to brainstorm withAdrian.
Um, but there are, I feel likethere are several directions I
(51:43):
can go.
And one of the things that Iwanna figure out this year is
to, to pick the route that feelsright to me.
And what that basically means iswhether or not to pursue adult
or to keep going with ya.
And I, there are so many thingsabout ya that I really, really
love.
I have a great publisher, sohappy with them.
(52:06):
Um, but I am very intrigued bythe adult sphere.
Um, so I wanna, I just kind ofwanna, I wanna figure the way
forward.
I'm sitting on, um, a handful ofideas that kind of go together,
um, but are standalones and I'mtrying to best decide what home
to give them.
But I really love these ideas.
(52:27):
So this new year, I, I reallywant to figure out where they
need to go and to start kind offlushing them out, developing,
dreaming, playing, planning, anddoing all of the research
because, you know, that's my favone of my favorite things to do.
So I think that would be my mainone, is just, I really need to
figure that out.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Nice.
If only you had a workbook toput all of that planning.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah.
.
.
If only, if only.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Alright.
Are we ready for our bonusround?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yes.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Tea or coffee?
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Coffee.
Coffee.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
What is your favorite writing snack?
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Oh, mine, mine is two .
It's in a jar mix together andit's salted shelled, pistachios
and dark chocolate chips, and Ihave to eat them together.
.
Yum.
I
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yum.
I don't typically snack while,uh, drafting, but I have been
drinking this, uh, funny enough,I just said coffee, but it's
like this fizzy tea.
It has collagen in it, and itcomes in grapefruit, hibiscus,
vanilla, and it's so good.
And it's been kind of my drinkthat I drink while drafting
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Water or cancer
Speaker 2 (53:47):
.
Cancer plotter
Speaker 1 (53:50):
Writing in the morning or writing at night?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Hmm.
It changes with every book forme, but right now it's in the
morning.
I used to be a, whenever themood, you know, uh, whenever the
mood struck me, but now I havebeen trying to get writing done
in the morning, so that way it'sdone and it's out of the way.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Your number one tip for tackling writer's block.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Mm oh, go on a drive.
I, I always go on a drive orjust do something on autopilot,
walk, take a shower, foldlaundry, do something like that,
but your body is on autopilot.
Um, I think for me it'stypically when I have writer's
block, it's because I've lost myway somehow.
And so I go back and I rereadthe last few chapters and I keep
(54:44):
reading while it still feelsright.
And then if some, somethingstarts feeling off a little bit,
i, I almost always is aboutcharacter motivation.
And so I will rework the outlinea little bit until it starts
feeling right again.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Ooh.
Ooh.
Oh, I, okay.
So normally I would sayUprooted, which I absolutely
love, however, I just read andit's literally coming out next
week.
But it's Emily WildesEncyclopedia Ferry.
Oh, I'm really looking forwardto that one.
I haven't read it yet, but I'mdying too.
(55:24):
Oh my gosh.
That book is like a whimsical,cozy blanket.
I was enchanted and I don't saythat about books normally, but I
loved that book.
It makes me deeply happy.
I've already reread it, I'vereread the art twice.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Oh, wow.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yes, I know.
I, I really loved it.
Um, for me, I would say, I mean,Isabelle actually introduced me
to this author, but JulietMario's books, I, I love them.
They're, they just make me happyon a deep level.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yeah.
One of my favorites as well.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah.
Oh, daughter of the forests.
So good.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
, um, we kinda
touched on this already, but
what are you working on next?
Do you have anything more thatyou didn't talk about yet?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Yes.
Um, I, my adult is coming outsecond, second adult novels
coming out in the fall, but, um,all this year I am gonna be
working a lot on my next YaDuology, which is like a
Greco-Roman inspired fantasy,say what's, what's next for me?
Mm-hmm.
.
My next is a book called Whatthe River Knows.
(56:31):
It comes out November 14th, 23,and it is set in 1884 Egypt.
And it's part, oh, it's for, itwould be perfect for fans of the
Mummy, uh, death on the Nile,uh, Casablanca.
So it's like part mystery,adventure.
There's magic, all the things.
It's one of my favorite thingsthat I've ever written.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Oh my gosh.
I love the, the historicalfantasy, you guys.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yes.
.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Uh, lastly, speaking of social media, for better or
for worse,, where canpeople find you?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
I'm at Isabel.
I ssa, b e l, writer, w r i t er zero nine.
And my handle is Adrian YoungBooks, a d r i e n n e y o u n g
.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Thank you.
So welcome so much for havingus.
Thank you.
It's been fun.
Thank you
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Readers.
I hope you'll get yourselves acopy of the Storytellers
Workbook to help with your nextnovel.
Of course, we encourage you tosupport your local indie
bookstore if you can.
If You don't have a local indie,you can check out our affiliate
store that is atbookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer.
And as a reminder, we now haveHappy Writer merchandise on both
(57:57):
Red Bubble and Tea Public.
Next week I will be talking withEllen o Clover about her debut
Contemporary Romance, 7% of RoadDeVere.
If you're enjoying theseconversations, please subscribe
and follow us on Instagram atMarissa Meyer author and at
Happy Writer Podcast.
Until next time, stay healthy,stay cozy, and whatever life
(58:20):
throws at you today or thisyear, I hope that you are
feeling a little bit happier.
Happy, happy New Year, and welcome to the 2023
season of the Happy Writer.
This is a podcast that aims tobring readers more books to
enjoy and to help authors findmore joy in their writing.
I am your host, Marissa Meyer.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope that you all had awonderfully joyful holiday
(00:33):
season, and that you are cominginto the start of the new year
full of energy and inspiration.
And I hope that you're ready totackle some big writing goals.
Uh, I know I am, I have so manythings that I am eager to get
started on, or some various backburner projects that I've been
(00:54):
dabbling in this last month, andI am just overflowing with good
writing energy right now.
So let's hope that thatcontinues.
Um, and it does make this aperfect episode to be starting
out the new year, uh, based onthe book we're gonna be talking
about today.
(01:15):
But before we get to that, uh,one thing making me happy this
week, actually, really thiswhole winter season is our
fireplace.
Um, I did not do a whole lot ofactual writing over our break,
but I have been doing a ton ofplanning and researching and
(01:36):
brainstorming and reading, andthere were hours and hours in
which I just sat by our firewith my notebook in hand and a
cup of tea
And it has been so cozy and sorelaxing, and it has made for a
few weeks, in which I have justbeen constantly reminded of how
(01:57):
much I love what I do, and Ijust feel so lucky that I get to
call this my job.
Um, so yeah, getting to work infront of your fireplace,
definitely one of life's littlejoys, and I am so happy to be
talking to today's guests.
Adrian Young is the New YorkTimes and international
(02:19):
bestselling author of the Skyand Sea Duology, the Fable
Series, and spells forforgetting.
Isabelli Banez is anaward-winning designer and the
author of Woven and Moonlightwritten in Starlight.
And together we burn.
She also holds the highlycoveted honor of being the first
(02:40):
guest to appear twice on theHappy Writer Podcast.
No kidding.
You are.
You are indeed
The Storytellers workbook andinspirational interactive guide
to the Craft of novel writingcame out last month.
Please welcome Adrian Young andIsabel Ibanez.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Hey guys.
Hello.
This is Isabel, by the way.
This is Adrian establishedvoices.
Adrian's voice Yes.
Establishing voices.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Uh, hello and welcome.
I'm so delighted to have you andvery grateful that you are here
to be our first guest of theyear.
How are you both doing?
How was your holiday?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I feel like it passed by and such a blur as you know,
holidays often do familycooking, baking, all of the
things, and we drove todifferent family homes, and so
we were in the car a lot, so wewere listening to a lot of
podcasts, actually.
Yeah, I feel like mine was ablur too.
(03:47):
We, um, I was sick for a coupleof weeks and that really took me
down for the count and made itto where we didn't, I don't know
, it just felt like everythingwas very dream-like and hazy.
I remember Christmas morning,and then I remember going back
to sleep, you know,
(04:07):
So I'm actually kind ofstruggling to feel like, fully
feel like it's the new year.
Um, I'm waiting for that feelingto kick in because it's, there's
a little bit of a lag happening,I think.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.
I hope you're feeling better.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I am, I'm feeling so much better.
I'm definitely on the mend.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Good.
I think you'll have to like plana, like, you know, December
15th, we're gonna celebrate thenew year and just like, pretend
that we're starting over now
Speaker 2 (04:33):
To get that by.
That's kinda how I feel.
Yeah.
I'm kinda like, you know what?
It's not the new year this week,like, that's later that's, we're
gonna gear up towards, I feellike I need to build some
momentum toward it becausenormally I love the new year and
I just hit it, like hit theground running and I'm like,
ready for it.
And this year I'm like, wait,what?
Where am I?
(04:53):
Who am I?
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, no, I, I get that.
Um, I know I, I didn't do itintentionally, but somehow my
writing schedule, I've kind offallen into this pattern where
December tends to be like mywell filling month.
Um, and I love that so muchwhere then I have all of
December to kind of relax andrejuvenate and just think about
(05:16):
all the stories.
Uh, and, and now of course Ihave this just ridiculous to-do
list and all of these goals forthe new year, and I'm like, okay
, let's get this done.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Alright, ladies, the first thing that I would like to
ask you both, I'd love to hearyour author Origin stories.
How did you become writers?
How did we get here?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Adriannene you go.
Okay.
Well, um, I just always dream,honestly, from a very young age,
elementary school, I dreamed ofbeing an author.
It's definitely a dream cometrue for me, a lifelong dream.
Um, I, how that was kind of bornin me was, I was in trouble a
lot in school and I got kickedout of my classroom
(06:04):
and sent to the library becausemy teacher didn't wanna deal
with me.
And so the library kind ofbecame my little haven and I
became friends with LibraryCrochety, old librarian
And, um, I, that's kind of wheremy like relationship with books
and stories was born.
And I still have a very visceralmemory of standing in that
(06:28):
library and imagining my ownname on the cover of a book.
And so I feel like it's beenwith me a really long time.
But, you know, as I got older, Ireally didn't think it was a
very, um, viable or realisticdream.
And so it was kinda that thingin the back of my head, but I
didn't think I would actactually wind up doing ever and
(06:49):
didn't have plans to activelypursue it, even though I was
writing all growing up.
And I'm not exaggerating when Isay it was literally the only
thing I was good at as a kid.
Like, I wasn't good at anysports, I wasn't good at any
other subjects.
I just, writing was a thing thatreally gave me confidence.
And then I got older, probablymy mid, early to mid twenties is
(07:13):
when I kind of revisited thatmindset and was like, actually,
you know what?
I think I might wanna go for it.
And so I did.
I queried a few books, um,before I finally sold my debut
novel, which was Sky in the Deep, and it was a Viking inspired
fantasy, young adult fantasy.
And, um, the rest is kind ofhistory from there.
It's been a very wild ridesince.
(07:34):
I love it.
What a punishment to be sent tothe library.
Yeah.
I know you heard more thing
I know.
Um, Lizelle, how about you?
Well, this is so funny, but it,it jogged like this suppressed
memory, uh, your story a littlebit.
(07:54):
Um mm-hmm.
schools and, uh, when I was thatage, I was actually very shy and
deeply insecure.
Um,
bring, bring to the school like,um, home cooked meals and it
(08:15):
would be like bivian inspiredfood and everybody would laugh
at me.
And so lunch, seriously, I wouldbring like Saban or something
and people would be like, what'sthat?
Is that a weird hot pocket?
Weird.
And so I, I really struggled to,uh, be in the same cafeteria as
(08:35):
the rest of my peers.
And because I didn't really knowanybody.
And so I would run away to thelibrary and I became very good
friends with the librarian whowas the wife of the headmaster.
And she, uh, I think just reallyfelt sorry for me, but she ended
up giving me a lot of books toread and I fell in love with it.
And then at home, my mother hada very strict no television
(08:59):
during the week rule.
And I played one sport, I playedsoccer, but I, I didn't, I
wasn't in love with it the waythat my father and brother were,
but I did really love to read.
And so I think that this waskind of like the origin story of
me asking for journals and, youknow, diaries and things like
that.
And I began to write and then onfamily trips to Bolivia, I
(09:22):
remember carting around likethese journals and I would be
sitting at the dinner table, mycousins around me, and I would
be writing a story.
I really just kind of, um, notput that together, but just kind
of remembered that feeling ofwanting to escape to the library
and being fed a lot of books.
So, yeah.
Um, I, from there, I reallywanted to be a writer.
(09:44):
Uh, but like Adrian, I did notrealize it was a real job.
I thought going to college meantI needed to be, you know, like a
doctor, a teacher, lawyer,something like that.
And I had, I really had no idea.
And so I, what I ended uppicking was journalism.
And I went to, I was at NYU and,um, studying journalism and
super bad at it.
(10:05):
And I remember one day runningto the, not literally running,
because I don't run, Adrian canattest to this, but I went to, I
went to the Barnes and Noble inUnion Square, which is right
next to my dorm.
And I went, and at that pointthere was no young adult
section.
And so I went to the kidssection, I think because it was
just bright and cheery and therewere stuffed animals and, you
(10:27):
know, whatever.
And I sat down on the corner ofthis area and I, and I looked
across from me and there wasthis shelf with like all of
these books.
And in front of me was The Spinefor the Goose Girl by Shannon
Hale.
And I picked it up and I read itcover to cover, I bought it and
I realized that's, I, that'swhat I wanted to do with my
(10:49):
life.
I really wanted to give it a go.
And so I left nyu, moved backhome to Florida, changed my
major from journalism tocreative writing, and really
tried to pursue writing eversince.
Um, but it wasn't until muchlater as I realized, you know,
publishing a book in thiscountry is actually very hard.
And I, I took a detour and Iended up studying graphic
(11:11):
design.
I started a design in letterpress studio in my twenties.
And then I, I still reallymissed writing.
And I eventually got married andI was on a honeymoon with my
husband, and I was inspired towrite this Latina Pirate story
and I finished it.
And that wasn't the book thatgot me the a the my agent, my
(11:35):
first agent.
But it was the book that taughtme how to write the story.
And from there, I think the restwas history.
I sat down, wrote, woven, andMoonlight.
And that was the book that gotme my agent.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh my gosh, I love it.
I also very briefly dabbled injournalism.
Um, I, oh, signed up for ajournalism class in college and
I went, and on day one Iremember the teacher talking
about how everything you writehas to be true.
Like if you're, you're puttingout mm-hmm.
(12:07):
In fact, you cannot embellish,you cannot exaggerate.
And I left that class and wentstraight to the counselor and
was like, this is not for me.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Oh my,
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I had
Speaker 2 (12:19):
A very similar experience.
My teacher was, would mark meall the time for using too many
adjectives.
Cause I was being, I wasexaggerating.
I was embellishing.
He's like, you're puttingyourself way too much into this
and it needs to be devoid of anypersonality.
You are relaying information andit has to be accurate.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh,
(12:40):
Well, I'm super dramatic, sothat's not gonna work for me.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right?
Yes.
What other options are there?
Um, alright, so now of courseyou are well into your writing
careers.
You've published a number ofyoung adult works, um, and now
you have joined forces to bringus this lovely craft guide slash
workbook, the storytellersworkbook.
(13:06):
Tell listeners a little bit,what is this book?
What can they expect from it,and how did it come to be?
Um, Isabel, what do you wannakick it off?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Sure.
So the Storyteller's Workbook isa companion and it's meant to be
a useful functional tool for anybudding writer or, um, novelist
that already has some books out.
And it's, it's going to walk youthrough from start to finish the
process of writing a book.
(13:37):
And so there's gonna becharacter worksheets and world
building, um, worksheets.
Uh, my favorite component of it,there's an actual like, guide to
building a map of your world,but there's brainstorming pages.
There's like these pseudo, uh,index cards for anything you
want, kind of like a chapter, ascene, what have you.
(13:58):
So there's plenty of space tofree-write, but it feels very
guided at the same time.
So our hope is that you won'tget lost, but that you have
enough freedom to really play,to really dream and to kind of
layer your story however youwant using the tools that you
can find in the workbook.
Um, and then the second half ofthe workbook is a comprehensive,
(14:19):
I think, in my opinion, butreally comprehensive, just start
to how to get your book outthere.
And it, like, it covers how towrite a great pitch, a synopsis.
It, um, has examples of ourquery letters that has been kind
of picked apart.
And, um, there are examples ofhow to craft your own query
(14:39):
letter.
And then from there, at the veryback of the book, um, there is
an, um, agent query tracker.
So there's like boxes and youcan fill out, okay, this is when
I queried this agent from thisagency, and this is their
preferences.
This is, this is theirrequirements and what have you.
So it's really got a little ofeverything and it's not, um,
(15:00):
we're not necessarily doinganything new, but what it is is
that it's a whole collectionmeant to be super inspiring and
to kind of just be a part ofyour writing journey.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think it's, you know, the, thething about the workbook is that
everything is just in one placeand it's sequential.
(15:20):
Yes.
So you kind of, you start at thebeginning with ideas and
research and brainstorming allof that, and then it kind of
holds your hand a little bit asyou set and track and achieve
your goals for actually draftingyour manuscript and then takes
you on from there.
And, um, mm-hmm.
(15:44):
recently launched a writer'sworkshop called Writing With the
Soul, and I absolutely loveddoing that work.
Um, I, I still read it and Istill love it, but, um, I think
it really kind of brokesomething open in me where I was
kind of thinking more alongthese lines of putting more
tools for writers andinspiration out there for
(16:05):
writers.
And, um, so I was kind ofmulling over this idea of
creating some kind of workbookor, um, you know, just something
that had everything in oneplace.
And Isabel and I are friends inreal life, and so I often go to
Isabel, I still do go to her toverbally process and brainstorm
(16:27):
And she, because of herbackground in design and art and
layout and all of those things,she just had such a wealth of
knowledge coming from a totallydifferent side of that world.
And I realized like, oh my God,this, I actually don't have the
skillset to pull this off bymyself.
(16:49):
And she had so many amazingideas too about the content that
I was like, how about we just dothis together?
And lo luckily she was down forit and our agents were excited
about it.
And so we got to work on it.
And, um, it took, what, what doyou think?
Maybe like between, we wereworking on it between deadlines
and things, and so it probablytook about a year and a half to
(17:11):
actually finish it, but um, nowit's out in the world, which is
just really funny cuz it startedas random phone calls and random
conversations over coffee and,you know, things like that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So how often, once you started actually pulling it
together and, and writing it andfiguring out what would be
included, how much did it changeand grow from that first
original concept?
Like, were you constantly addingnew things, like, oh, what if we
had a section about this?
What if we had a section aboutthis?
Or did you kind of have itfigured out from the beginning?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
No, I, I mean, I, I wouldn't say so.
I, I think that we had a very,or Adrian did, had a very, like,
here's what I, here's what I'mthinking.
But when we got into the weeds,we quickly started adding so
many different elements thatwere a surprise.
Like, there's, um, a section inthe workbook, it's like, it's,
we call it the writer woods.
(18:11):
And so there are literal treesthat people can color in every
time they achieve some, somekind of, you know, uh, like if
they, if they hit a thousandwords, if they wrote a chapter
that day, they can color in atree and they can mark their
progress that way.
But there's so many littleinstances like that where we're,
we're just, you know how it is,like you're talking with
somebody and you're in tune andin sync.
(18:32):
And so an idea will happen andthen it, that idea becomes a
little bit more fleshed out andthen another idea kind of
piggybacks off of that.
So the workbook really bloomed,I think, while we were working
on it.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I love the writing words.
I think that is such a
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Cute Oh yeah, I do too.
I think that's, that's one ofmy, one of my favorite parts.
Um, but yeah, I think it, wealso kind of realized in
fleshing it out that there weresome things that we had in the
list of ideas that were a littleredundant or, um mm-hmm.
(19:07):
that we weren't sure about.
And so it did, it did take awhile to like fully take shape
and get into like an order.
Um, originally it wasn't in twoparts.
Like right now it's like partone, get the story down, part
two, get the story out there.
Um, that was a much laterdevelopment, like really at the
end when we realized, yeah, like, oh, this is kind of like two
(19:28):
sections.
Oh.
Like, stuff like that.
So I really that some of thatstuff we didn't really figure
out until we started seeing,seeing it, you know, like the
actual like layout of things.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So the Woods definitely is maybe my favorite
part cuz it's so unique in sucha fun way.
And there's so many differentways that authors can track
their progress, but I think it'sa really cute visual detail.
One of my other favorite partsis that you have a section with
advice and suggestions for howto title your work.
(20:06):
Oh
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And I feel like titling, it's one of those
questions, how do you come upwith your titles?
Is it gets asked over and overand I never have a good answer
for it.
It's like, it seems like one ofthose, I don't know, the magic
of writing it pops into yourhead and ta-da.
Um, but I love that you kind ofbroke down some like really
(20:28):
practical steps for how peoplecan come up with a title.
So that was also one of myfavorite parts.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's, I love that you, I love that you feel that
way.
We, um, Adrian and I are in agroup text and no joke, we will
toss around so many differentwords and different titles and
it's part of the process.
Sometimes it's very
(20:56):
months, like, yes.
Yes.
And so honestly like the, thatwhole title section really, I, I
maybe even subconsciously isborn outta these text message
threads.
We're, we're all just kind ofbouncing off these adjectives
and themes from the book.
And all of us are trying tolike, figure out a tricky title
for a story.
(21:16):
I know Adrian has certainly beenthere, I have been there, but
yeah.
Um, yeah.
So I love that you love thatpart.
I hope that it's useful.
We both do, obviously, but yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
particular, and, and really thiswas kind of the intent with the
workbook as a whole, was not totell anyone how to do something,
but rather just help themorganize their own thoughts and
(21:40):
inspiration.
Because I'm a really bigbeliever that like, of like the
magic is already in you typemindset, you know, where, um,
you just, sometimes you need tojust organize your thoughts and
let things come to the surface.
You don't necessarily needsomeone to give you all the
wisdom.
And so the workbook is very muchintended to be that for people
(22:01):
where it's kind of just stirringthe pot and asking you guiding
questions along the way andtrying to pinpoint the things
that are already kind ofhappening in your brain and in
your, like, subconscious so thatyou can like put them in order
or, you know, highlight thestrengths and whatever.
So I think sometimes I know forme that's really helpful.
(22:23):
Like when I'm talking tosomebody, I'm trying to figure
something out and they're askingme those very like, diagnostic
questions that kind of helps mecome to my own conclusion.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Sure.
And a good reminder too, that weare all a little different.
No writer does things exactlythe same way.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And yes, that is one of the wonderful things about
this workbook is that it is, itis very open.
There's, it's full of blankpages, notebook, pages,
brainstorming, drafting pages,calendars, but it's, it, it
gives the user so many differentoptions, different ways that you
(23:01):
can use this.
It doesn't necessarily say youhave to do it our way, um mm-hmm
.
really practical, actionabletips and advice.
Um, so I think it's just areally wonderful balance for
people
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We really want.
So a little backstory there forthat, it, Adrian and I, um,
approach drafting and story alittle bit differently.
And so it was very important forboth of us that anybody could
pick up the workbook and itwould be useful to them no
matter if they were, say, aplotter or a cancer.
(23:43):
Mm-hmm.
craft a story in a completelydifferent way.
They might do bubble outlines,they might do very, like, they
might do chapter outlines,whatever it is.
But we wanted it to still feellike it was a practical tool in
that it didn't pigeonholesomebody into a direction where
they really didn't wanna go.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, I know for me, one of the sections that as I
was going through the book, uh,I came to the character
worksheet and it is so in depth.
Um, and so well thought out justall of the different things that
you could include about yourcharacters, things that you
could think about, not that youhave to, not that you have to
(24:28):
fill out the entire profile.
Um, but there's really a lot ofwonderful and rich ways to think
about each character andwhatever works for the writer
they can use.
And I remember when I got tothose pages, I was like, oh,
this is so useful and I cannotwait to go and create some
character profiles using me.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
That was the character profileworksheet is something that I, I
made years ago on my computerfor myself, like, and it was
just like a exercise whenever Ifelt stuck with a character,
wasn't totally sure aboutsomething.
And, um, I have given it away alot, like several times as like
(25:09):
a little free thing for writers,you know, that type of thing.
But we, I feel like Isabelle,didn't we maybe add a little bit
to it?
Maybe I feel like it, we mighthave, um, it might have evolved
a little bit from my originalversion, but it was just a
collection of things that, likeI had thought of over years and
questions I had begun to askmyself or things I'd heard other
(25:32):
authors and writers say ininterviews.
Like, I always try to thinkabout this with my characters
and I would make a little noteof that and try to kind of
compile a holistic view ofcharacter.
And I think sometimes when youcan answer these questions about
the character, it unlocks thingsthat you don't even realize it's
gonna unlock.
Not just about that character,but like their dialogue or the
(25:52):
plot or their arc.
You know, all these things thatyou're not necessarily able to
see right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Are there any sections in thisworkbook that you are
particularly excited to usegoing forward?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I am excited about the revision, like this section
that's like a revisionchecklist, because I do this in
my notebook all the time.
And in the workbook we, I mean,again, you can use it however
you want, but we kind of arelike, this is how we like to
think about it.
These like levels, you know, bigthings, medium things, little
(26:30):
things.
And being able to have them allin one place and to keep a
running list of things.
Like, there's also a spot inthere, like you can keep a
running list of, like, when I'mreading through my revisions,
I'm sure both of you do thistoo, too, or like, you notice
this too.
You start realizing about fivechapters in that you've used a
certain specific word, like 18times mm-hmm.
(26:52):
And so then like, I, I'm alwayslike making lists of things like
that so I can like word searchthem later or whatever.
And so I think having that inthe workbook, that was a big
priority for me in the workbookbecause I always build out
in-depth re revision plans and Iwanted a space for that, and I
will definitely use it.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Honestly, for me, one , the, the thing that I love to
do is all of the planning aheadof the drafting stage.
I really, um, I don't wanna sayhate because that is too strong
of a word.
I feel like I wanna be done withdrafting as soon as possible
And what helps, what helps me isto make sure that all of my
(27:37):
ducks are in a row.
And so the character world were,uh, building sheets, the world
building sheets, um, all ofthose really help.
Uh, and I'm excited to use, tohelp me to draft that much
faster so that I can get to myfavorite part, which is the
revising part.
I really love to revise.
I don't actually think I'm astrong writer, but I do think
(27:58):
that I'm a very good rewriter.
And so I, for me, it's just allof the little planning details
that are at the front of theworkbook that I'm excited to use
because I know that it's goingto make my life so much easier
when I am in that drafting mode.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
And then what about for the people who pick up this
book, whether they're newwriters, maybe just starting out
on their very first novel, ormaybe they're old experts and
they're just looking for somenew way to plan or organize
themselves.
Uh, of course there's no reallyright or wrong way to use this
(28:35):
book, but if you could like,give someone a tip for like, how
to get the most out of it, whatwould you suggest?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Um, well, we've been using, I was gonna say we've
been using the word playground alot when we're talking about
this, um, this workbook becauseI mean, I would just encourage
people to play, like, to notfeel like you have to do it a
certain way to not feel like ithas to look all beautiful, like
with this perfect outlineinside, like the, the point of
(29:04):
the workbook is to be able tohave the freedom to just play
around.
And something that I've learnedthrough the years as a writer,
um, and I think a lot of writersget to this place, is that you
can consume all the craftmaterials in the world and you
should, right?
I mean, that's part of uslearning and growing as writers,
but a lot of it is not gonnaapply to us because it's not
(29:27):
gonna fit into our naturalprocess, or our process is gonna
shift over time.
And so mm-hmm.
like rules.
Like, I work this way, myprocess is this way, I'm a
plotter, I'm a panther, I am,you know, I do this thing.
And so then like we kind of boxourselves in and we can't really
(29:49):
evolve outside of that.
And so I think that the workbookI, for somebody who like totally
fresh coming in, I would saydon't hold yourself to anything.
Like give it, give yourself thepermission to try a lot of
different techniques andapproaches and styles when it
comes to the actual process ofwriting.
(30:10):
And that's not only more fun,but it's also, I think in the
end, more productive.
I also, I don't know if thishappens to you too, a lot, but
this happened to me literallyyesterday where a friend of a
friend reached out and was like,Hey, I've got a friend.
They really wanna be published.
They have no idea where to startor what to do.
(30:30):
I, I feel like other than a, youknow, reading a craft book, the
workbook would be such a greattool.
If you are, when you are juststarting out, you're really
excited, you're motivatedbecause of the two-part
functionality of it.
So there is the part where youcan play, you know, and kind of
talking about what Adrian justmentioned, but like, play and be
(30:51):
able to discover your voice, beable to figure out the story
that you're telling and how whoyou are as a storyteller.
But then at the very back, um,we have laid out a kind of just
map to like, toward publicationand the steps that you need to
take to be able to be, uh,traditionally published.
And so for me, I'm, I'm reallyhappy actually kind of excited
(31:16):
that I can just say, Hey, haveyou looked at the storyteller's
workbook?
That would be a really greatkind of one all in all type
thing.
So it tells you about querying,it tells you about writing a
synopsis, it tells you aboutwriting a pitch, and then it
talks about agents, you know.
So I, um, for me at least, it'slike, it's got like that front
part where you can play.
(31:36):
And then there is that secondpart that is super practical
where I think a lot of peopleare hungry because researching
how to get published on theinternet is overwhelming.
You know, there are pages mm-hmm.
And pages mm-hmm.
On how, how do you do this?
But in the workbook, it haseverything kind of laid out in a
very concise way.
And it, of course, it's notcomprehensive, it doesn't have
(31:57):
all the things, but what it doesdo, it gives you like the, the
big highlights of what you needto pay attention to when you are
getting ready to get your storyout there.
Mm-hmm.
So you're not, I'm hoping thatpeople won't feel super
overwhelmed by that part of theprocess.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah.
No, that's an excellent point.
Um, because it is one of thosethings where of course this
information is already outthere, you know, of course with
a really deep dive, you canfigure out how to write a query
letter, you can figure out howto track what agents you're
querying mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
information Yes.
That is available.
(32:34):
Um, and for someone who reallydoesn't know anything about the
industry, and I get get thosesame questions too all the time,
how do you do this?
How does this even work?
What is a literary agent?
You know?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Um,
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So yeah, to have it all in one place is so handy.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
That's why we love it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Isabelle, I wanna know about the design aspect.
Um, this is, yeah, a verybeautifully designed book.
Um, every page has some sort ofdesign element on it.
It's very friendly, veryapproachable.
I'm just curious, like kind ofhow did you approach doing the
design and then how did that goas far as discussing with the
(33:17):
publisher?
Like, were they totally on board?
Was there any pushback there?
Like, uh, cuz there's so manycolors and, and all of this, and
just how, how did that go?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Um, really, I think because Adrian came with a lot
of the content of the workbook,um, stuff that she'd been
putting together with compilingand thinking about for years,
having all of the writing reallyhelped me think, oh, okay.
So in terms of layout, I don'twant to have a design that's
(33:50):
super overwhelming, busy,distracting, what really needs
to shine is the guidance.
It's the content, it's, youknow, the writing.
And so, um, when we were talkingabout the look and feel of the
workbook, we really wanted it tofeel organic.
We wanted it to feel beautiful,yes, but really functional.
(34:11):
And we didn't want the design toovertake any of the, the, you
know, the little guideposts thatyou can find throughout the
pages.
Um, so from there, I thinkreally what the first thing that
I think that we started withAdrianne, and correct me if I'm
wrong, was the cover, um mm-hmm.
And then from from the cover wepicked a really earthy, organic,
(34:35):
just, you know, not bright, notjarring color palette.
And when we got into the actualpages of the workbook, I kind of
kept the color palette to thatsame color family.
I loved using like the very, um,sagey greens, and then there's a
, a creamy color for the pages.
Um, I do love the color coral,so there's like a washed coral
(34:58):
on most of the pages wherepeople can write.
And so the other thing too isthat people are gonna be filling
out these pages no color, um,can distract from the writing
either.
So everything, whatever somebodyis writing, it still needs to be
legible and not hard to read,you know, all these things.
So really, um, Adrian and Iworked a lot together on trying
to make sure that this cover andthe workbook, it all felt
(35:23):
cohesive and beautiful and weplayed around a lot.
But I really do, I really dolove, um, love layout.
I love, because to me it workslike puzzle pieces.
It feels very logical to me.
And so figuring out out howthings are going to lay on a
page, the hierarchy, the how bigthe typeface is going to be or
(35:44):
font, um, is going to be, howmany lines are gonna be
dedicated, you know, for thissection or this section.
That's a lot of fun for me.
That feels like a really funchallenge to me.
Mm-hmm.
I love it.
And then when we, um, when wegot ready to submit it, we had
Adrian, this, we had zeropushback, right.
(36:04):
There were no, the only reallything that, that we went around
in circles a little bit was withthe cover itself.
Um, but as far, as far as thepages, I think everybody was on
board with all of it.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, we, I feel like we werereally lucky to have a team that
was like, just excited about thevision, the creative vision, um,
(36:27):
even the art and visuals and allof that.
Um, I'm really, really happyabout that.
Uh, but mm-hmm.
cover, but I mean, it didn'ttake much to get there in the
end.
Mm-hmm.
complicated was that, you know,this was all in the height,
(36:50):
height of all of these supplychain and printing issues that
were happening, um, when thiswas getting ready, when we were,
uh, in the process of making it,but then also right before it
went to print.
So there were some like kind ofbells and wily type things that
we wanted, or originally we had,you know, envisioned that it
(37:13):
just was not gonna happen withthe printer because of
everything that was going on.
And none of it was things that,you know, none of them were like
deal breakers or heartbreaks oranything like that.
But, um, I think that was reallythe only thing we ran up
against.
It was kinda like we had to makesome compromises there.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
(37:34):
Well, it turns out justabsolutely gorgeous.
It's a really, really lovelybook.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
We worked really hard on it.
I don't know when we worked onit,
I don't either.
We've literally been trying tothink like, when did we even do
(37:56):
this?
Like, I don't, no, I feel thatway about every book that I
write.
Yes.
Seriously.
Yes.
Seriously.
I do recall Adrian.
I do recall lots of coffee shopsand Yes.
Working through.
Yes, I remember that.
And then I also remember youcoming over to my house and pr
(38:17):
we were printing like the pagesout on my home computer and
trying to piece it together onwhat it would look like, even
like counting the pages to seehow thick it would be and if it
was thick enough if we needed toadd more content to it.
Mm-hmm.
everything else beyond that,that is such a blur.
No idea.
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
That's funny.
No, it's a really fun book.
Um, but also super useful.
I can just imagine some writersbuying a new copy every time
they're starting a new book.
Like it's your, it's your littlecompanion.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah.
It's your little buddy.
It's your buddy.
And that's the hope, you know,I'm certainly gonna use it that
way.
Every time I have a project, Iwould love to use the workbook
for exactly that purpose.
Yeah.
It's such a great, it's, it'ssuch a great way to organize
everything in one place.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah.
No, and I am, I think it wasmentioned earlier, you know, the
lists, you know, just the randomlist everywhere.
I have the same way.
And I always have spiralnotebooks just spread out all
over my office and in my purse,in my backpack next to my bed.
And so they're just like filledwith the most random notes from
all these different projects andI'm like, oh, it would be so
(39:29):
nice to have everything in oneplace.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just all in one plane.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
All right.
I have a couple more questions,but we're gonna move away from
the Storyteller's workbook.
Um, before we do, is thereanything that we didn't touch on
that you just really want peopleto know about?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yes, there is one thing at the back of the book,
there are these really adorablestickers, and every time I look
at them, it makes me absurdlyhappy.
They're just really cute.
And you can put the stickershowever you want on the pages as
you are doing, as you're, youknow, working through your, your
(40:09):
novel.
But feel free, have fun.
They're my favorite.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I am so glad you pointed that out, because I did
not notice them.
And I've got that
flipped back.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
They're are stickers.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yes.
Surprise.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Awesome.
I love it.
They're so cute.
I'm gonna put one of these on mylaptop.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Excellent.
I think, I don't know if you'vebeen seeing Isabelle, we've been
getting tagged in a lot ofpictures of where, like, how
people are using the stickersand like people are putting them
on their laptops, like right bytheir little mouse pad tracker
thing, like the keep writing,keep writing or, you know
mm-hmm.
And it's really fun to see howpeople are using them.
(40:55):
I love it.
It makes my heart melt a littlebit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
All right, A couple more questions.
Um, one that I ask all of ourguests, um, although Isabel, I
don't think I was asking it backwhen you were on before, so I
think it's new to you.
Um, I would love to hear fromyou both.
What do you feel is one of thebiggest challenges that you've
had to face so far in yourcareer?
And then how are you able toovercome that?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Hmm.
I, I can tell you right now, youdidn't ask me that, but go
ahead,
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Well, I feel, you know, I think that I really
struggled, um, especially in thebeginning with the, just the
difference between what it is todream of, like having your
published books out there andwriting your books all by
(41:50):
yourself to actually gettingthem out there.
And then everything that comeswith that.
Like, it's just, it's not, it'snot always exactly what you
think it is.
And even though it is absolutelymy dream, I wouldn't rather be
doing anything else.
Um, never in a million years.
I feel so lucky to be doing whatI'm doing.
(42:14):
There's a lot that comes withbeing an author in this day and
age that I just didn't bargainfor
media and like having a, like akind of persona type stuff.
Like having, uh, havingcriticism and feedback so
(42:34):
accessible to you.
Like it's just there all thetime.
Um, and even though I think it'sreally wonderful that we have
these platforms and things wherewe can like connect with readers
and see like how our work isimpacting people, and that's so
inspiring and motivating to me.
It's also been, you know, aprocess for me to kind of figure
(42:56):
out how do I fit into this andstill be authentically me and
still enjoy what I'm doing.
Um, Isabelle and I have talkedabout this so much mm-hmm.
authors can relate.
Um, so that's, that's kind ofbeen the big, big thing that
stands out to me, jumps out atme right now.
(43:17):
But I think how I've gottenthrough it is just not being
afraid to do things differentlythan maybe how people around me
are doing them.
Like, I think having that sameflexibility that we're talking
about with process and story andall of that, having that same
flexibility and approach to howwe're dealing with all this
(43:38):
other stuff and building theseother things, I think is so
important.
Because, you know, for some ofus, this might work really well,
and some of us maybe that's nothelpful or inspiring or healthy,
you know?
Mm-hmm.
Um, there's been lots and lotsof talk about boundaries over,
you know, yeah.
The last several years as well.
(43:58):
Um, I feel like that's been abig thing for me and, um, kinda
just figuring out like how tonot lose myself and my voice and
my creativity in the midst ofall of that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
There's so much of that that Ifeel very deeply.
Um, me too, me too.
(44:18):
Seriously.
I, I think for me, honestly,it's for the majority of my
career in publishing, and ithasn't been that long, it's
since 2020, a little before 2018is when woven and moonlight
sold, but I thought that amistakenly thought that a lot of
(44:40):
things were in my control
And, but, and I know that soundsreally naive, but I guess I
mean, in the sense of if Ishowed up on social media
enough, if I posted enough, if Ihad a newsletter, if I had a, a
beautiful website, if I had Xamount of Twitter followers, if
I had reach, if I went to thisfestival and networked this way,
(45:04):
I would have some kind of, Iwould be changing the equation a
little bit in my favor, in mybook, might do well mm-hmm.
And I've since realized that Ihave been working way too hard
in the wrong areas.
Um, and in a lot of ways it'sbeen very freeing, uh, kind of
(45:24):
terrifying to acknowledge thatactually how successful a book
is is has little to do with me.
And the best thing that I can dois to write my favorite things,
to write the book that I want toread, you know, and to write the
best book that I can do.
But outside of all of that, andI know I can do my part with
(45:47):
social media and all of this,but it, there are so many, to
me, at least traps with socialmedia, especially those that can
attack, I think my creativity,um, even like mental health,
honestly, because, um, you know,at and at any given day, we
we're exposed to just a lot ofopinions and, you know, some
(46:08):
negativity as well surroundingour work that is by default,
very vulnerable.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I have been, I have beenjust realizing actually, you
know, I can, I can do the thingsthat I can do, but I do not have
to sweat so much.
I don't have to give so much ofmyself and work this hard when
(46:31):
really the outcome is not in mycontrol.
It's, it's really not.
Yeah.
So that has been eliminated.
It always comes back to thewriting.
You're right.
It does.
Yeah.
It really does.
And, and here's the, here's thereality too, is that there are
many books that have beenwritten superbly that are
wonderful, that, that don'thave, or that that hasn't found
(46:54):
its readers through no fault ofthe author.
Right.
It's just, it's a toughindustry.
It really is.
Um, so yeah, I think that I'vehad to let go of a lot of
things.
I think I've had to ask, Adrianand I have talked about this,
but like, why am I working sohard in this area when it, well,
seriously, what am I doing?
(47:15):
What am I doing?
Why, why am I, why am Istressing out so much?
Mm-hmm.
amount, you know?
And the other thing too, it'slike with social media, I love
being able, able to, you know,chat with readers to engage with
them.
I love sharing elements of mylife, but at the end of the day,
(47:37):
it is just a small amount of mylife and mm-hmm.
time I felt like my presence,that platform had to be larger
than it was.
And I don't mean following, Ijust meant in how much it took
over my, my life.
I felt like I had to give it a,a larger slice of the pie, so to
(47:59):
speak, because I thought that'sthe way to succeed.
But now I realize I don't reallyneed to do that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
No, it kind of reminded me, uh, why I wanted to
do this podcast to begin withmm-hmm.
Um, it's just, you know, thisreminder that success is not a
given and bestseller dom is nota given.
And even if you do reach thosethings, they don't necessarily
bring happiness and fulfillment.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah.
But
Speaker 1 (48:28):
If you have a joy for the writing, if you love the
writing, then you can alwayscome back to that.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that's reallyimportant for us to try to
remember.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah.
I think that's, I think that'sreally, really true.
Yes.
Really, really true.
And it isn't, um, I think for along time too, I don't know if
you felt the way, um, but I feltlike I had to really pay
attention to the market and whatwas trending and what readers
wanted.
Mm-hmm.
And that is an impossible metricto hit and ultimately deeply,
(49:02):
deeply dissatisfying.
And so it really is aboutwriting and I, I really mean
this, but like, writing myfavorite things, writing my
favorite tropes, situations,scenes, worlds, conversations,
things that I would be giddy,you know, to read about.
That's what I wanna payattention to.
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Alright, my last question before the bonus round,
since this is our first episodeof the New Year, what is your
New Year's resolution, or if youdon't do resolutions, what is
your biggest goal for this
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Year?
Oh man.
You go first, Adrian.
Oh, man.
Well, like I said, I'm notreally in New Year head space,
but I
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Know, I know you're like, my goal is to feel like
it's the New York
Speaker 2 (49:53):
But no, I, I mean, I do havesome overall, you know,
directions, um, that I'm tryingto go.
I, I definitely am kind of focus.
I just debuted in adult fictionand the fall, which was a huge,
wonderful thing for me.
I, I just, that's something Ireally has been a goal of mine
(50:16):
since before I published myfirst young adult novel.
And so, um, I really felt like Ikind of was opening a new
chapter and, um, I, of courseI'm gonna gonna, I'm still
publishing young Adult as wellcause I love it so much.
And, um, I can't imagine notdoing it.
Um, but I think this year I'mkind of trying to hone in on,
(50:38):
uh, the adult fiction and justwhat that's gonna look like for
me, what my, what kind of workdo I wanna do in this space.
And, um, I have one, my bookcoming out this fall is my
second adult novel.
Um, so I think I'm just tryingto kind of wrap my head around
like, what, what do I see forthe future in this space and how
(51:00):
does it fit into what I'malready doing?
What, you know, what does Adrianas an author and five years look
like, 10 years look like?
And I feel like I've been sobusy over, you know, since even
right before the pandemic that Ihaven't really been thinking as
like long term.
Like I haven't been dreaminglong term.
I've been dreaming in the shortterm.
(51:20):
And so I'm trying to kind of reI don't know, imagine some
things mm-hmm.
Hmm.
I think, um, Adrian and I talkedabout this a little bit, or I
was brainstorm.
I really love to brainstorm withAdrian.
Um, but there are, I feel likethere are several directions I
(51:43):
can go.
And one of the things that Iwanna figure out this year is
to, to pick the route that feelsright to me.
And what that basically means iswhether or not to pursue adult
or to keep going with ya.
And I, there are so many thingsabout ya that I really, really
love.
I have a great publisher, sohappy with them.
(52:06):
Um, but I am very intrigued bythe adult sphere.
Um, so I wanna, I just kind ofwanna, I wanna figure the way
forward.
I'm sitting on, um, a handful ofideas that kind of go together,
um, but are standalones and I'mtrying to best decide what home
to give them.
But I really love these ideas.
(52:27):
So this new year, I, I reallywant to figure out where they
need to go and to start kind offlushing them out, developing,
dreaming, playing, planning, anddoing all of the research
because, you know, that's my favone of my favorite things to do.
So I think that would be my mainone, is just, I really need to
figure that out.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Nice.
If only you had a workbook toput all of that planning.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah.
If only, if only
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Alright.
Are we ready for our bonusround?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yes.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Tea or coffee?
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Coffee.
Coffee.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
What is your favorite writing snack?
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Oh, mine, mine is two .
It's in a jar mix together andit's salted shelled, pistachios
and dark chocolate chips, and Ihave to eat them together.
Yum.
I
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yum.
I don't typically snack while,uh, drafting, but I have been
drinking this, uh, funny enough,I just said coffee, but it's
like this fizzy tea.
It has collagen in it, and itcomes in grapefruit, hibiscus,
vanilla, and it's so good.
And it's been kind of my drinkthat I drink while drafting
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Water or cancer
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Cancer plotter
Speaker 1 (53:50):
Writing in the morning or writing at night?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Hmm.
It changes with every book forme, but right now it's in the
morning.
I used to be a, whenever themood, you know, uh, whenever the
mood struck me, but now I havebeen trying to get writing done
in the morning, so that way it'sdone and it's out of the way.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Your number one tip for tackling writer's block.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Mm oh, go on a drive.
I, I always go on a drive orjust do something on autopilot,
walk, take a shower, foldlaundry, do something like that,
but your body is on autopilot.
Um, I think for me it'stypically when I have writer's
block, it's because I've lost myway somehow.
And so I go back and I rereadthe last few chapters and I keep
(54:44):
reading while it still feelsright.
And then if some, somethingstarts feeling off a little bit,
i, I almost always is aboutcharacter motivation.
And so I will rework the outlinea little bit until it starts
feeling right again.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Ooh.
Ooh.
Oh, I, okay.
So normally I would sayUprooted, which I absolutely
love, however, I just read andit's literally coming out next
week.
But it's Emily WildesEncyclopedia Ferry.
Oh, I'm really looking forwardto that one.
I haven't read it yet, but I'mdying too.
(55:24):
Oh my gosh.
That book is like a whimsical,cozy blanket.
I was enchanted and I don't saythat about books normally, but I
loved that book.
It makes me deeply happy.
I've already reread it, I'vereread the art twice.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Oh, wow.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yes, I know.
I, I really loved it.
Um, for me, I would say, I mean,Isabelle actually introduced me
to this author, but JulietMario's books, I, I love them.
They're, they just make me happyon a deep level.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yeah.
One of my favorites as well.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah.
Oh, daughter of the forests.
So good.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
what are you working on next?
Do you have anything more thatyou didn't talk about yet?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Yes.
Um, I, my adult is coming outsecond, second adult novels
coming out in the fall, but, um,all this year I am gonna be
working a lot on my next YaDuology, which is like a
Greco-Roman inspired fantasy,say what's, what's next for me?
Mm-hmm.
My next is a book called Whatthe River Knows.
(56:31):
It comes out November 14th, 23,and it is set in 1884 Egypt.
And it's part, oh, it's for, itwould be perfect for fans of the
Mummy, uh, death on the Nile,uh, Casablanca.
So it's like part mystery,adventure.
There's magic, all the things.
It's one of my favorite thingsthat I've ever written.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Oh my gosh.
I love the, the historicalfantasy, you guys.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Uh, lastly, speaking of social media, for better or
for worse,
Speaker 2 (57:08):
I'm at Isabel.
I ssa, b e l, writer, w r i t er zero nine.
And my handle is Adrian YoungBooks, a d r i e n n e y o u n g
.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Thank you.
So welcome so much for havingus.
Thank you.
It's been fun.
Thank you
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Readers.
I hope you'll get yourselves acopy of the Storytellers
Workbook to help with your nextnovel.
Of course, we encourage you tosupport your local indie
bookstore if you can.
If You don't have a local indie,you can check out our affiliate
store that is atbookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer.
And as a reminder, we now haveHappy Writer merchandise on both
(57:57):
Red Bubble and Tea Public.
Next week I will be talking withEllen o Clover about her debut
Contemporary Romance, 7% of RoadDeVere.
If you're enjoying theseconversations, please subscribe
and follow us on Instagram atMarissa Meyer author and at
Happy Writer Podcast.
Until next time, stay healthy,stay cozy, and whatever life
(58:20):
throws at you today or thisyear, I hope that you are
feeling a little bit happier.
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