May 19, 2025 • 27 mins
Journey with us to an old mining town with a rough and tumble past, complete with jails, brothels and ghosts...
Book Recommendations:
"Jerome Arizona: The Wickedest Town in the Wild West" by Deborah Amsberry: This book delves into the rich history of Jerome, from its rowdy days as a mining town to its transformation into an artistic community and ghost town. It covers the town's infamous wild west days and its haunted reputation
"Soiled Doves" by Anne Shelley is a historical fiction novel set in Tombstone, Arizona, in 1881. The story follows Lily, a woman who finds herself in desperate circumstances after her husband's sudden death. With no other options, she turns to a brothel for survival. The book explores the lives of women in the Wild West and their struggles and resilience.
Sources & Reference Material:
https://jeromelocal.com/attractions/
https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/stays/arizona/jerome-grand-hotel-az
https://mysterioustravels.com/jerome-ghost-town/
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/jeromes-sliding-jail
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Sherlock Holmes once said when you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
truth. But what if the truth isn't just
improbable? What if it's horrifying?
What if it's something so baffling that our minds can't
accept it? What if it's because our senses
can't confirm it or it makes ourvery soul shudder from
(00:38):
committing such depraved act? In this podcast, we'll journey
through haunted history, metaphysical happenings,
unexplained disappearances, and unconventional murders.
Events that challenge everythingyou thought you knew.
And sometimes we'll uncover the truth, but perhaps not in the
way that you were hoping. I'm Jen.
(00:59):
And I'm Liu, and this is the haunting truth where facts blur
into the unknown and what remains after we question
everything might just shake us to our core.
Listener discretion advised. Content contains references to
(01:29):
homicide and suicide and may notbe suitable for all audiences.
Listener discretion advised. So this is Wu.
And with me today is working it out.
Jen. Working hard.
As we all know, life takes precedence, right?
So I appreciate you taking the time to listen to us and
(01:51):
whatever spare time you have, even if that's just a ride to
work or back or whatever. But today we are diving into a
history rich town that has a dark side.
Haha. I flipped the script on again.
Usually you're the one doing thetowns and I'm doing the towns
this time. I'm excited.
Yeah. So.
So normally we tend to stay in the Northeast area, but this
week we're headed out towards the Pacific with a stop at what
(02:13):
was known as the wickedest town in the West.
So we're not in ounces obviously, but.
We're not in Oz, not in ounces, not in Kansas, no.
But why? W Well, I had done a family trip
there years ago. My brother was graduating from
college. That's not him driving the FedEx
truck that just came by, by the way, if you happen to screech
(02:34):
that. But he was graduating from
Denver. So we decided to fly into
Phoenix and take a road trip andthen end in Denver.
So we stopped along all the wayswhere you normally have to right
the Grand Canyon, Four Corners, Sedona, Lake Powell.
This was before it started drying up and revealing bodies
and things. Missed that opportunity there.
(02:58):
You did hear about Lake Powell, right?
Absolutely. Yeah.
OK. So yeah, not not happening at
the time. Actually, we took a boat out on
Lake Powell. It probably floated over those
bodies. As a matter of fact, that is
where I used the first floating bathroom because I'd never seen
one before and I made them stop so I could use them.
Tangent. Anyway, so the town we're going
(03:21):
to talk about was an unplanned stuff.
We literally drove right throughit like on our our roadways and
it actually ended up becoming one of my favorite parts of the
entire trip. And to this day I have a copper
Christmas tree ornament that says Arizona on it.
And that's right, we are headed to Jerome, AZ.
Yeah, I'm really excited. Yes, Yeah.
Very cool town. So our journey begins in the
(03:43):
late 19th century. Of course, Jerome was a thriving
copper mining town. And as you were telling me
earlier, copper mining towns, right?
They come up quick, they die down quick.
They've got a lot of history. So while it was prosperous, of
course, came Vice and Jerome quickly gained A reputation for
its salons, brothels and lawlessness.
(04:04):
Like think Tombstone Jerome wasn't that.
I don't remember seeing anythingabout Wyatt Earp being there,
but I'm pretty sure as. Soon as you say Tombstone, I
just think like, OK, Crowl, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, like
that's what I envision and I don't I know Doc Holiday is not
like I I would have preferred him.
(04:25):
I don't know why somebody who has like tuberculosis but yet is
still able to, you know? He was.
Definitely the boss in my opinion for some reason.
To this day, I still say I'm your huckleberry, and I know
that's probably made-up, but I absolutely actually.
It's not. Good, so it's not your.
Huckleberry, it's your huck huckle bearer.
So a huckle is actually the sizeof a coffin where people.
(04:48):
Oh yeah. So it's the it's your Huckle
Bear. Oh well, that makes so much more
sense. So it was a saying back then,
actually. So the size of the coffin where
you actually hold it up is the huckle.
And so he's saying, I'll be yourhuckle bearer.
You know what, I learned something new today.
Thank you for adding to my knowledge.
Now I feel way more intelligent than I did for a start to this.
(05:13):
That's awesome. I mean, Huckleberry is fun, but
like if you go to look up Doc Holiday, that's that's what it
says. But that makes so much more
sense. All right, OK, so we're talking
about lawlessness. We're talking about the same
kind of town, same kind of era or whatever, which is remarkable
really because the town is very,very small.
It's basically 3 streets. You come in on the top St. and
that's kind of where all the mansions and people that have
(05:34):
money live. And then you do this little loop
by the cop of mine and then you go down the 2nd Rd. and that's
where the courthouse, the jails,you know, post office, whatever
happens to be on that 2nd St. And then it loops back down
around as you're driving out. And that's like the red light
district. That's where the bad side of
town is. That's where everybody that
doesn't qualify to be on the rich side of town happens to be.
(05:57):
So what's also really fun, and Itoured this town is they have
little pathways that are cut between the buildings on the 2nd
St. and 3rd St. So I'll call 2nd St.
Law St. that's where the courthouse and jails were.
And then the bottom St. which isthe red light district.
(06:19):
So they have pathways cut in between the buildings and the
rumor is, and you can look it upon here, it's called Husband's
Alley, is that people that when they went to work could use
those little pathways to go downto the red light district to
visit their soiled doves, which is also a thing that is a
terminology without the wives noticing from Rich St. while
(06:43):
they're up in their mansions andand raising their children and
all of that. So that is why it's there.
So I don't know if it's true, but it is possible.
I have pictures in the resource notes of husband's Ally and it's
history and you can Google it yourself.
And if that's true, then even the good guys who are supposed
to be going to work even led to the wickedest town monitor.
We have to think so when you're building a town and you're the
(07:06):
most influential people within town, regardless of what's going
to happen and everything, you'rethe one who is probably setting
up those districts because you have to think about it this way.
The only thing that's really survived and most of these
western towns were the richer areas and buildings that were
built out of brick and these larger establishments.
So they had to give the permits and everything else for things
(07:28):
to be built. That's why you don't see any of
the miners houses and everythingbecause they were all made of
wood or they were canvas tents or things along those lines.
That's why these towns that exist are really small, but in
reality they used to be just miles and miles of these little
kind of barter towns that pop like tent towns essentially.
But only the big establishments like the salons, and
(07:49):
unfortunately the houses of ill repute stayed because most of
them were backed by the more wealthier of town.
Yeah. So, yeah, so I agree.
And the sound like it had its rough and tumble past and today
it is a national landmark district, which I I highly
(08:10):
recommend visiting. A very, very cool place.
It's also said to be one of the most haunted place in the USI
would believe that. I would believe that.
So we'll go on. So I think the most infamous
location in Jerome is the JeromeGrand Hotel.
Now as we've seen in New Orleansand some other areas, hotels a
lot of times take over where hospitals used to be, right?
(08:34):
And this one is another one of those.
So it was originally built as the United Verde Hospital in
1926. And as you can see in a, in a
mining town, lots of mining accidents, lots of illnesses,
influenza, so on, lots of peopledied in the hospital, right?
So they turned this into the hotel.
And even today, you know, guestsreport hearing, you know, this
(08:57):
the the same ghost things that we've heard elsewhere,
disembodied voices, apparitions,other paranormal activities,
lights on and off and so on, most especially in room 32.
Now that room specifically had several rumours of death about
it, including a man falling off the balcony due to suicide
(09:19):
within the room. And there are also orbs,
wailing, heavy breathing. So this room itself, there is a
YouTube video that I have LinkedIn, the resource net so
you can watch and you can see the orbs like going all around.
So apparently it is most definitely a hotspot and that
can lead out to some of the ghost hunter evidence that that
we can find within Joanne. Now I do have a question.
(09:41):
A lot of these hotels, especially ones where we knew
that there was a lot of women ofPhil Repute or something along
those lines, they would set up like behind pictures a bunch
essentially listening stations. They could find out if something
bad was happening within that room specifically.
So it was kind of like a listening device or an indicator
(10:03):
of trouble. I'm not sure if they had that in
Jerome specifically, but they have found it in several other
boom towns. I don't know if they had that
specifically in Jerome. I didn't see that.
But I will say, if that had happened today, and I do know
the place in New York that had that set up, it was considered
illegal when the gentleman went to jail.
Well, yes, today, but like, you know, we also have other safety
(10:25):
concerns. Like, you know, there's, there's
law today. Back then it was like nobody
really cared that much to the owner.
Proprietor had to make sure he kept his girls safe.
Yeah, that's true. On this one though, when you
look at the map of the town, andI'm not saying that it didn't
happen there, the Jerome Grand Hotel is actually like up on the
top. So it's the fan.
(10:45):
The red light district was like 3 streets down, so it was
separated. They weren't in the same.
I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure it probably happened up
there too. It wasn't.
For specific use, this was the grander hotel where people
stayed OK all. Right.
Yeah. So this was like the upscale,
like this was up on rich side town, all right by the mansions
and things like up. There they still probably.
Listen, I'm sure they probably had those listening devices down
(11:09):
there and it probably hooked himup to the jail.
But anyway, it's also said that there was a former maintenance
man from the 30s who died in theelevator shaft that still roams
the halls. Now, the elevator is a
self-service, historic self-service, and it's said to
be the oldest one in the state. However, when they found the
gentleman's body pinned underneath of it, it was still
(11:31):
functioning perfectly. So somebody pushed him.
So, yeah, so because of that, some believe that his death was
actually a murderer and not an accident, which would explain
why he's still kind of hanging out.
Yeah. You definitely want to find out
who gave you a little nudge intothe afterlife.
Yeah. So then fun fact with this one,
(11:54):
the attached restaurant, which is still active today, it's
called the Asylum Restaurant. No, I don't know why you'd want
to. I don't know what the Asylum
restaurant, but I kind of feel like I want to meet the people
that run this because that's kind of a really, really good
time. Yeah.
It is. That is really good advertising,
I have to say. Look.
I actually went online. I was like, what do they serve
at the Asylum restaurant? Like I don't.
(12:16):
Like the menu, like. I want to start.
Squash Meatloaf. Squash like things you'd.
Serve in an asylum. I call it meatloaf because it's
mystery meat. So you're not sure?
Double B loaf. Nobody likes me loaf.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. So anyway, so if we ever go to
(12:36):
Jerome, we can probably check it.
I did not stop at the Asylum restaurant or the Jerome Grand
Hotel, but I would definitely goback and do it again.
So for the next visit, we go to the Connor Hotel, which is
another hotel within Jerome. And I don't know if you're
seeing a pattern as I'm seeing when we talk these towns, it's
usually hotels and jails if I don't, OK.
This one was in 1898. And it is also seen its share of
(13:00):
fires and tragedies. Again, this seems to be a
pattern that we're picking up. Every town that we're covering
has fires going on at some point.
Guests have reported seeing shadowy figures hearing
unexplained noises with a lot ofactivity in rooms 1 and 2.
Some have even claimed to have felt a ghost presence in the
room and have had the radio switch on even when unplugged.
(13:22):
Now with the fire, with the firesituation, we have to understand
that in this time there wasn't any electricity.
Everything was gaslight. So you literally had gas pumping
through the walls of these hotels.
So one nozzle that was or 1 little seeping copper pipe and
there's a spark and all of a sudden it is an inferno.
(13:43):
So I mean and there was really no building codes at all so
that. Really they have like insulation
R rated whatever to that point there.
But I mean, yeah, you think about the episodes that we've
covered, right? There was fire in Basto, there's
fire. Berkeley there's fired and tell
Yesin there's. There's a lot of.
(14:04):
Fire. There's fire in Thurman, right?
There was. Fire in Thurman.
So Thurman actually burned down their whole and every single
time something burned down, it seems like people started
building things better to stop it from happening in the future.
And it it was kind of part of the growth of the town.
In every one of these situationsis there was an initial fire
which paved the way for bigger and better mapping of the town
(14:25):
itself. Yeah, I think so.
All right, so we're going to take a break here for a second
and when we come back, I will tell you about a specific
incident that happened in the Connor Hotel before we go on
about our rest of our tour of tour.
Awesome. So I'm.
Looking forward to it. All right, so back from the
(14:52):
break and I told you that I was going to talk to you about a
specific event that happened within this Connor Hotel.
And this one happened to involvea wife whose name was Anna
Hopkins, who, if you want to guess, suspected her husband
having some sort of flame with anearby school teacher.
(15:15):
Oh, so it's a school teacher? It's not the red light district.
OK all. Right, it is not.
This is actually a woman of somekind of.
Reputable. Means maybe, you know, kind of
like an upstanding. So what did Miss Anna Hopkins
do? What any angry woman would do.
She flung carbolic acid in the teacher's face.
She. Melted her face.
(15:36):
In the cafe on the grand floor of the Connor Hotel in 1922,
Yes. Now, I'm not condoning acid.
I said that sarcastically if anybody thinks like, I'm
condoning that. But yes, no, don't do that.
But yes. She flung acid in her face.
That's horrible. So as to what happened to her,
accounts vary. Some say that she recovered from
(15:56):
her wounds and moved to Spokane where she subsequently perished,
of course from old age. Other accounts claim that she
died painfully a few weeks lateras a consequence of the
injuries. What we do know is that Hopkins
was found guilty of assault for the event a few months later and
then punished accordingly, although I have not been able to
find exactly what that. Punished.
(16:17):
Yeah. What?
What does punished accordingly mean in those times?
Like, don't do that again. This was a domestic situation.
We're going to give you like 6 months or something like that.
I I really don't know, but then I think at this point in time
too, women really weren't thought that well of so what's
it really matter? They always were.
(16:38):
Prone to hysterics in this era, so.
It was she was probably committed to an asylum.
This. Area probably.
Yeah, but I don't, I don't really know for sure, but if any
of our listeners know, please let us know because I would love
to know what happened to her. But yeah, ask him in the face at
the Connor route. So with that, we're going to
(16:58):
leave the Connor Hotel and we'regoing to go to Rumpam, the old
jail, of which of course she cannot have an old haunted town
without the old jail. So yes, it's my favorite place
that there's jails in town everywhere.
This one is interesting in that the jail actually slid down the
hill. Mining related instability made
(17:23):
the hills. And if you look at Jerome, it is
most definitely on the hill. Like I said, you have the 3rd,
2nd, 1st St. it just goes down like in in towards the valley.
It's on 30 Valley. Yeah, the jail slid 200 feet.
Now, if you go to Atlas Obscura,which is one of my favorite
sites, and I have that LinkedIn,the resource notes as well, you
can look up the old Sliding Townjail in Jerome and it has
(17:44):
pictures of like before and after the slide.
When I was there, you could actually see the jail.
They still had it. Like not all the walls were
there, of course, but you can still see it in relation to like
the Red light District St. behind it and the husband
pathways and things. But yeah, it was very, very
cool. So there's that.
(18:06):
And then we had the many abandoned mines and tunnels
beneath the town. These are said to be haunted by
the miners who perish in accidents or from the harsh
working positions. We talked about this before.
Safety really wasn't a key thing.
No then. I can't even imagine.
I'm extremely claustrophobic when it comes to like crawling
(18:27):
into tight spaces and having a tunnel fall on top of you and
then not being able to dig your.That is one of my worst fears.
OK. Yeah.
So where did I go? We were in, I went on a family
trip and they had the caverns because of course, I love going
to the caves. Yes.
And they had some tunnels that were old mining tunnels.
(18:49):
I want to say I think it was it was in Colorado.
It was in Colorado and they had a tour where you could get like
the old mining lamp and crawl through the tunnels on your own,
but you literally had to do it on your hands and knees because
there were parts that came through that it was just so
tight. And I was like, I'm going to do
it. And my husband was like, no, I
(19:11):
am not. He hard.
Knocked me in there and my brother was too big to fit and
so I was like we we let it go but.
See, I would do that if I knew there was a way for me to get
out and I was with other people.But like, I'm just I can't do
the spelunking thing where there's a lot of cavers who go
in. There is an actual path, but
(19:32):
like there's no safety precautions.
People are not going to be able to find.
No, I'm good, I will pass. I'm.
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, That's not.
I never really thought of myselfas claustrophobic, but there's
been a a few occasions I've goneinto some caves or caverns and
they're like, you know, and you sit there and think about that,
I'm like, no, there's there's noway.
(19:54):
Like, I don't. I mean, how desperate do you
have to be to put food on your family's table to do that?
I mean, I probably would if I had to.
There was no other option at that point.
But it is, it is crazy. So, yeah.
So there's a lot of souls out there that are still wandering
the tunnels, searching for theirway out.
(20:16):
But not everything in Jerome is bad, right?
Jerome, it went through its standard.
It was a huge Coppertail, lots of prosperity.
And then it dove, right? The decline went down.
Never really wanted anymore. There was decline.
It literally went into ghost town mode.
And then in the 60s and 70s, artists began to settle there,
(20:37):
attracted by, you know, the unique texture of the town and
the stunning views. Like I've said before, it is
over the Verde Valley. You can literally just look and
just see open sky. It is beautiful.
And when we went through there, it is becoming a vibrant artist
community. It's got galleries, it's got
studios, it's got boutiques, it's got little wine shops.
(20:58):
There's like really cool vintageboutique things.
And it's all independently owned.
It's very funky. There is no change, right?
It's all just everything is owned by the person that owns
it. And the vibe is very, very,
very. So they basically permitted the
and there is a lot of town, there's a couple of towns like
(21:20):
that that I'm aware of. There is one in Delaware as well
where you have to be a small independent business.
They will not let any kind of change or conglomerates into the
community to make sure that essentially the town is being
able to sustain itself. It's about Arden.
Yes, I love Arden. I went to a very cool wedding up
(21:40):
there with that. But yeah, it's, it's most
definitely like that. It's like, you know, everybody
is just, they've got their own. There's glass blowing and they
turned in, you know, you could go through the jail, but like
the old courthouse, they turned into an artist studio and every
room has its own setup and it's just very, very neat.
I really liked. It I like revitalization,
(22:01):
especially if it's unique revitalization.
I love small towns. I've never lived in one myself,
but that's one thing I would love at some point in time to
do. To be able to live in a small
sustainable town where I can people when I feel like it, and
then also be on the outskirts where I can do my own thing.
Yeah, I you'd love it. And I, I think if you, if you're
(22:23):
ever in the mood for like doing a research, whatever you do an
Airbnb and just search for room rooms that are available in
Jerome. They have some of the funkiest
unique like setups, you know, that you can rent and stay in.
It's not it's not hotel chain. Like if you're if you're in the
mood for character and history and just neatness, I think it's
a very, very. Good place.
(22:44):
Well, you know me like my motto is I embrace my I embrace my
strange. And actually that's where I got
the inspiration for my my closet, though the one vintage
shop that I stopped in, they hadlike the old 50s, sixties pin
ups and she did her whole shop around that vibe.
That was very, very cool. So anyway, so So what is the
(23:07):
haunting truth here? Was Jerome really the wickedest
town in the West? Or was it just a marketing
gimmick? I don't really know about the
wickedest town in the West. I didn't hear anything in that
that made it any worse than any other town in the last.
It sounds like kind of standard Western.
Towns. Yeah, I mean, like, look, even
Thurmond, it was the same way. Yeah, yeah, I mean it, it's I
(23:29):
think it's just fun. I mean, if you if you search to
roam and you look for books there, there is a book, it's in
the book recommendations. It is called The Wickedest Town
of the West, but I feel like that's kind of a self-imposed
moniker, kind of like trying to like.
Yeah, you know, it's a tourist attraction.
Name give. Me my own nickname, because you
really can't do that. Is it really haunted?
That I do believe is probably true and there is a lot of
(23:52):
evidence that's out there on YouTube and so on.
Again, I am on that belief, so Ithink that's probably true, but
what are your thoughts? Do you think it's haunted?
Do you think it's that? I mean, I definitely think
everything has a haunting in some way, even if it's residual.
And with so many things happening in the town, most
Western towns that are long since abandoned or even still
operational, they do have a lot of hauntings.
(24:15):
There's a lot of trauma. There's a lot of people who seem
to be kind of stuck there just based on how hard of a life that
they specifically had, or peoplewho just don't realize that
they're no longer have to live that kind of life.
And as I said, they're in a looplike they don't realize it's
over. Because they just.
It was such a bad situation for them so.
(24:35):
And maybe for the dude that got murdered and framed with the
elevator, I don't know, Maybe he's got some things he's got a
he's got. Some unresolved issues,
obviously unresolved. Issues I think is, is it
actually? I think that's enough.
That should be another sticker for us when we're putting our
comedy unresolved issues. But you know, so was Jerome
really weakest? I don't know.
(24:56):
Probably not. Is it haunted?
Yes, I I do think it is. But what I do know for sure is
that it's a great time to visit.Like I said, it's small, but
it's surrounded by beauty. My kids absolutely loved it.
It's full of funky independent boutiques, art galleries, wine
stores, in addition to history. So if you like both of those
things, it's really cool. And I mean, if it's good enough
for Maynard James Keenan, I do. I don't know if you know who
(25:20):
that is. I do.
He's the lead singer Tool. Yeah.
And a perfect circle. He is a wine maker and he does
run Caduceus Cellars out of Jerome, and he lives there
today. He has a residence there today.
So it's good enough for him. I think it's probably good
enough for quite a few people tocheck out.
Yeah, I do recommend a stay at the Grand Hotel.
Try Room 32 if you can get it. And don't forget the cactus
(25:42):
candy. Like it's literally everywhere.
If you've never had cactus candy, have you ever seen cactus
candy? I've not.
It's like. Jelly.
It's like Jelly thing. It's it comes in this package
and it looks like, I want to saylike watermelon sours.
OK, Square. OK.
And. They're like pink and they sell
(26:03):
it literally everywhere because they make it out of the cacti
that's around there. So you got to try the cactus
candy. I love this kind of like little
kitschy. Yeah, it's, it's their thing.
I didn't try it because it looked like the box of cactus
Candy that was getting pushed onme at that one shop had been
there for like 3 years, really wasn't that interested in it,
but I hear it's good. I don't know.
(26:23):
So if any of our listeners have ever tried Cactus Candy, please
let us know. Yeah, how it was.
So thank you all for joining us today.
I appreciate your time. Like I said, Jerome's a very,
very cool place to be. If you have anything else that
you'd like to let us know, have us check out or disagree with,
please let us know. And if you liked it, please
(26:43):
share, subscribe, and so on. And Jen, any other words of
wisdom for us before we shout out for the week?
No, as I said, go visit, see what you think, see what the
truth is for you specifically inJerome.
And if you've been to other Western towns, let us know.
If you really think it was the wickedest town in the West, that
would be good to know. That is good.
(27:04):
So until next week, seekers lookthrough the lies and.
Don't drink the water. There may be bodies in it.
Yeah. We don't want the bodies.
We don't want the bodies. No, I don't think so.
Bye. All right.
Bye.
Sherlock Holmes once said when you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
truth. But what if the truth isn't just
improbable? What if it's horrifying?
What if it's something so baffling that our minds can't
accept it? What if it's because our senses
can't confirm it or it makes ourvery soul shudder from
(00:38):
committing such depraved act? In this podcast, we'll journey
through haunted history, metaphysical happenings,
unexplained disappearances, and unconventional murders.
Events that challenge everythingyou thought you knew.
And sometimes we'll uncover the truth, but perhaps not in the
way that you were hoping. I'm Jen.
(00:59):
And I'm Liu, and this is the haunting truth where facts blur
into the unknown and what remains after we question
everything might just shake us to our core.
Listener discretion advised. Content contains references to
(01:29):
homicide and suicide and may notbe suitable for all audiences.
Listener discretion advised. So this is Wu.
And with me today is working it out.
Jen. Working hard.
As we all know, life takes precedence, right?
So I appreciate you taking the time to listen to us and
(01:51):
whatever spare time you have, even if that's just a ride to
work or back or whatever. But today we are diving into a
history rich town that has a dark side.
Haha. I flipped the script on again.
Usually you're the one doing thetowns and I'm doing the towns
this time. I'm excited.
Yeah. So.
So normally we tend to stay in the Northeast area, but this
week we're headed out towards the Pacific with a stop at what
(02:13):
was known as the wickedest town in the West.
So we're not in ounces obviously, but.
We're not in Oz, not in ounces, not in Kansas, no.
But why? W Well, I had done a family trip
there years ago. My brother was graduating from
college. That's not him driving the FedEx
truck that just came by, by the way, if you happen to screech
(02:34):
that. But he was graduating from
Denver. So we decided to fly into
Phoenix and take a road trip andthen end in Denver.
So we stopped along all the wayswhere you normally have to right
the Grand Canyon, Four Corners, Sedona, Lake Powell.
This was before it started drying up and revealing bodies
and things. Missed that opportunity there.
(02:58):
You did hear about Lake Powell, right?
Absolutely. Yeah.
OK. So yeah, not not happening at
the time. Actually, we took a boat out on
Lake Powell. It probably floated over those
bodies. As a matter of fact, that is
where I used the first floating bathroom because I'd never seen
one before and I made them stop so I could use them.
Tangent. Anyway, so the town we're going
(03:21):
to talk about was an unplanned stuff.
We literally drove right throughit like on our our roadways and
it actually ended up becoming one of my favorite parts of the
entire trip. And to this day I have a copper
Christmas tree ornament that says Arizona on it.
And that's right, we are headed to Jerome, AZ.
Yeah, I'm really excited. Yes, Yeah.
Very cool town. So our journey begins in the
(03:43):
late 19th century. Of course, Jerome was a thriving
copper mining town. And as you were telling me
earlier, copper mining towns, right?
They come up quick, they die down quick.
They've got a lot of history. So while it was prosperous, of
course, came Vice and Jerome quickly gained A reputation for
its salons, brothels and lawlessness.
(04:04):
Like think Tombstone Jerome wasn't that.
I don't remember seeing anythingabout Wyatt Earp being there,
but I'm pretty sure as. Soon as you say Tombstone, I
just think like, OK, Crowl, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, like
that's what I envision and I don't I know Doc Holiday is not
like I I would have preferred him.
(04:25):
I don't know why somebody who has like tuberculosis but yet is
still able to, you know? He was.
Definitely the boss in my opinion for some reason.
To this day, I still say I'm your huckleberry, and I know
that's probably made-up, but I absolutely actually.
It's not. Good, so it's not your.
Huckleberry, it's your huck huckle bearer.
So a huckle is actually the sizeof a coffin where people.
(04:48):
Oh yeah. So it's the it's your Huckle
Bear. Oh well, that makes so much more
sense. So it was a saying back then,
actually. So the size of the coffin where
you actually hold it up is the huckle.
And so he's saying, I'll be yourhuckle bearer.
You know what, I learned something new today.
Thank you for adding to my knowledge.
Now I feel way more intelligent than I did for a start to this.
(05:13):
That's awesome. I mean, Huckleberry is fun, but
like if you go to look up Doc Holiday, that's that's what it
says. But that makes so much more
sense. All right, OK, so we're talking
about lawlessness. We're talking about the same
kind of town, same kind of era or whatever, which is remarkable
really because the town is very,very small.
It's basically 3 streets. You come in on the top St. and
that's kind of where all the mansions and people that have
(05:34):
money live. And then you do this little loop
by the cop of mine and then you go down the 2nd Rd. and that's
where the courthouse, the jails,you know, post office, whatever
happens to be on that 2nd St. And then it loops back down
around as you're driving out. And that's like the red light
district. That's where the bad side of
town is. That's where everybody that
doesn't qualify to be on the rich side of town happens to be.
(05:57):
So what's also really fun, and Itoured this town is they have
little pathways that are cut between the buildings on the 2nd
St. and 3rd St. So I'll call 2nd St.
Law St. that's where the courthouse and jails were.
And then the bottom St. which isthe red light district.
(06:19):
So they have pathways cut in between the buildings and the
rumor is, and you can look it upon here, it's called Husband's
Alley, is that people that when they went to work could use
those little pathways to go downto the red light district to
visit their soiled doves, which is also a thing that is a
terminology without the wives noticing from Rich St. while
(06:43):
they're up in their mansions andand raising their children and
all of that. So that is why it's there.
So I don't know if it's true, but it is possible.
I have pictures in the resource notes of husband's Ally and it's
history and you can Google it yourself.
And if that's true, then even the good guys who are supposed
to be going to work even led to the wickedest town monitor.
We have to think so when you're building a town and you're the
(07:06):
most influential people within town, regardless of what's going
to happen and everything, you'rethe one who is probably setting
up those districts because you have to think about it this way.
The only thing that's really survived and most of these
western towns were the richer areas and buildings that were
built out of brick and these larger establishments.
So they had to give the permits and everything else for things
(07:28):
to be built. That's why you don't see any of
the miners houses and everythingbecause they were all made of
wood or they were canvas tents or things along those lines.
That's why these towns that exist are really small, but in
reality they used to be just miles and miles of these little
kind of barter towns that pop like tent towns essentially.
But only the big establishments like the salons, and
(07:49):
unfortunately the houses of ill repute stayed because most of
them were backed by the more wealthier of town.
Yeah. So, yeah, so I agree.
And the sound like it had its rough and tumble past and today
it is a national landmark district, which I I highly
(08:10):
recommend visiting. A very, very cool place.
It's also said to be one of the most haunted place in the USI
would believe that. I would believe that.
So we'll go on. So I think the most infamous
location in Jerome is the JeromeGrand Hotel.
Now as we've seen in New Orleansand some other areas, hotels a
lot of times take over where hospitals used to be, right?
(08:34):
And this one is another one of those.
So it was originally built as the United Verde Hospital in
1926. And as you can see in a, in a
mining town, lots of mining accidents, lots of illnesses,
influenza, so on, lots of peopledied in the hospital, right?
So they turned this into the hotel.
And even today, you know, guestsreport hearing, you know, this
(08:57):
the the same ghost things that we've heard elsewhere,
disembodied voices, apparitions,other paranormal activities,
lights on and off and so on, most especially in room 32.
Now that room specifically had several rumours of death about
it, including a man falling off the balcony due to suicide
(09:19):
within the room. And there are also orbs,
wailing, heavy breathing. So this room itself, there is a
YouTube video that I have LinkedIn, the resource net so
you can watch and you can see the orbs like going all around.
So apparently it is most definitely a hotspot and that
can lead out to some of the ghost hunter evidence that that
we can find within Joanne. Now I do have a question.
(09:41):
A lot of these hotels, especially ones where we knew
that there was a lot of women ofPhil Repute or something along
those lines, they would set up like behind pictures a bunch
essentially listening stations. They could find out if something
bad was happening within that room specifically.
So it was kind of like a listening device or an indicator
(10:03):
of trouble. I'm not sure if they had that in
Jerome specifically, but they have found it in several other
boom towns. I don't know if they had that
specifically in Jerome. I didn't see that.
But I will say, if that had happened today, and I do know
the place in New York that had that set up, it was considered
illegal when the gentleman went to jail.
Well, yes, today, but like, you know, we also have other safety
(10:25):
concerns. Like, you know, there's, there's
law today. Back then it was like nobody
really cared that much to the owner.
Proprietor had to make sure he kept his girls safe.
Yeah, that's true. On this one though, when you
look at the map of the town, andI'm not saying that it didn't
happen there, the Jerome Grand Hotel is actually like up on the
top. So it's the fan.
(10:45):
The red light district was like 3 streets down, so it was
separated. They weren't in the same.
I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure it probably happened up
there too. It wasn't.
For specific use, this was the grander hotel where people
stayed OK all. Right.
Yeah. So this was like the upscale,
like this was up on rich side town, all right by the mansions
and things like up. There they still probably.
Listen, I'm sure they probably had those listening devices down
(11:09):
there and it probably hooked himup to the jail.
But anyway, it's also said that there was a former maintenance
man from the 30s who died in theelevator shaft that still roams
the halls. Now, the elevator is a
self-service, historic self-service, and it's said to
be the oldest one in the state. However, when they found the
gentleman's body pinned underneath of it, it was still
(11:31):
functioning perfectly. So somebody pushed him.
So, yeah, so because of that, some believe that his death was
actually a murderer and not an accident, which would explain
why he's still kind of hanging out.
Yeah. You definitely want to find out
who gave you a little nudge intothe afterlife.
Yeah. So then fun fact with this one,
(11:54):
the attached restaurant, which is still active today, it's
called the Asylum Restaurant. No, I don't know why you'd want
to. I don't know what the Asylum
restaurant, but I kind of feel like I want to meet the people
that run this because that's kind of a really, really good
time. Yeah.
It is. That is really good advertising,
I have to say. Look.
I actually went online. I was like, what do they serve
at the Asylum restaurant? Like I don't.
(12:16):
Like the menu, like. I want to start.
Squash Meatloaf. Squash like things you'd.
Serve in an asylum. I call it meatloaf because it's
mystery meat. So you're not sure?
Double B loaf. Nobody likes me loaf.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. So anyway, so if we ever go to
(12:36):
Jerome, we can probably check it.
I did not stop at the Asylum restaurant or the Jerome Grand
Hotel, but I would definitely goback and do it again.
So for the next visit, we go to the Connor Hotel, which is
another hotel within Jerome. And I don't know if you're
seeing a pattern as I'm seeing when we talk these towns, it's
usually hotels and jails if I don't, OK.
This one was in 1898. And it is also seen its share of
(13:00):
fires and tragedies. Again, this seems to be a
pattern that we're picking up. Every town that we're covering
has fires going on at some point.
Guests have reported seeing shadowy figures hearing
unexplained noises with a lot ofactivity in rooms 1 and 2.
Some have even claimed to have felt a ghost presence in the
room and have had the radio switch on even when unplugged.
(13:22):
Now with the fire, with the firesituation, we have to understand
that in this time there wasn't any electricity.
Everything was gaslight. So you literally had gas pumping
through the walls of these hotels.
So one nozzle that was or 1 little seeping copper pipe and
there's a spark and all of a sudden it is an inferno.
(13:43):
So I mean and there was really no building codes at all so
that. Really they have like insulation
R rated whatever to that point there.
But I mean, yeah, you think about the episodes that we've
covered, right? There was fire in Basto, there's
fire. Berkeley there's fired and tell
Yesin there's. There's a lot of.
(14:04):
Fire. There's fire in Thurman, right?
There was. Fire in Thurman.
So Thurman actually burned down their whole and every single
time something burned down, it seems like people started
building things better to stop it from happening in the future.
And it it was kind of part of the growth of the town.
In every one of these situationsis there was an initial fire
which paved the way for bigger and better mapping of the town
(14:25):
itself. Yeah, I think so.
All right, so we're going to take a break here for a second
and when we come back, I will tell you about a specific
incident that happened in the Connor Hotel before we go on
about our rest of our tour of tour.
Awesome. So I'm.
Looking forward to it. All right, so back from the
(14:52):
break and I told you that I was going to talk to you about a
specific event that happened within this Connor Hotel.
And this one happened to involvea wife whose name was Anna
Hopkins, who, if you want to guess, suspected her husband
having some sort of flame with anearby school teacher.
(15:15):
Oh, so it's a school teacher? It's not the red light district.
OK all. Right, it is not.
This is actually a woman of somekind of.
Reputable. Means maybe, you know, kind of
like an upstanding. So what did Miss Anna Hopkins
do? What any angry woman would do.
She flung carbolic acid in the teacher's face.
She. Melted her face.
(15:36):
In the cafe on the grand floor of the Connor Hotel in 1922,
Yes. Now, I'm not condoning acid.
I said that sarcastically if anybody thinks like, I'm
condoning that. But yes, no, don't do that.
But yes. She flung acid in her face.
That's horrible. So as to what happened to her,
accounts vary. Some say that she recovered from
(15:56):
her wounds and moved to Spokane where she subsequently perished,
of course from old age. Other accounts claim that she
died painfully a few weeks lateras a consequence of the
injuries. What we do know is that Hopkins
was found guilty of assault for the event a few months later and
then punished accordingly, although I have not been able to
find exactly what that. Punished.
(16:17):
Yeah. What?
What does punished accordingly mean in those times?
Like, don't do that again. This was a domestic situation.
We're going to give you like 6 months or something like that.
I I really don't know, but then I think at this point in time
too, women really weren't thought that well of so what's
it really matter? They always were.
(16:38):
Prone to hysterics in this era, so.
It was she was probably committed to an asylum.
This. Area probably.
Yeah, but I don't, I don't really know for sure, but if any
of our listeners know, please let us know because I would love
to know what happened to her. But yeah, ask him in the face at
the Connor route. So with that, we're going to
(16:58):
leave the Connor Hotel and we'regoing to go to Rumpam, the old
jail, of which of course she cannot have an old haunted town
without the old jail. So yes, it's my favorite place
that there's jails in town everywhere.
This one is interesting in that the jail actually slid down the
hill. Mining related instability made
(17:23):
the hills. And if you look at Jerome, it is
most definitely on the hill. Like I said, you have the 3rd,
2nd, 1st St. it just goes down like in in towards the valley.
It's on 30 Valley. Yeah, the jail slid 200 feet.
Now, if you go to Atlas Obscura,which is one of my favorite
sites, and I have that LinkedIn,the resource notes as well, you
can look up the old Sliding Townjail in Jerome and it has
(17:44):
pictures of like before and after the slide.
When I was there, you could actually see the jail.
They still had it. Like not all the walls were
there, of course, but you can still see it in relation to like
the Red light District St. behind it and the husband
pathways and things. But yeah, it was very, very
cool. So there's that.
(18:06):
And then we had the many abandoned mines and tunnels
beneath the town. These are said to be haunted by
the miners who perish in accidents or from the harsh
working positions. We talked about this before.
Safety really wasn't a key thing.
No then. I can't even imagine.
I'm extremely claustrophobic when it comes to like crawling
(18:27):
into tight spaces and having a tunnel fall on top of you and
then not being able to dig your.That is one of my worst fears.
OK. Yeah.
So where did I go? We were in, I went on a family
trip and they had the caverns because of course, I love going
to the caves. Yes.
And they had some tunnels that were old mining tunnels.
(18:49):
I want to say I think it was it was in Colorado.
It was in Colorado and they had a tour where you could get like
the old mining lamp and crawl through the tunnels on your own,
but you literally had to do it on your hands and knees because
there were parts that came through that it was just so
tight. And I was like, I'm going to do
it. And my husband was like, no, I
(19:11):
am not. He hard.
Knocked me in there and my brother was too big to fit and
so I was like we we let it go but.
See, I would do that if I knew there was a way for me to get
out and I was with other people.But like, I'm just I can't do
the spelunking thing where there's a lot of cavers who go
in. There is an actual path, but
(19:32):
like there's no safety precautions.
People are not going to be able to find.
No, I'm good, I will pass. I'm.
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, That's not.
I never really thought of myselfas claustrophobic, but there's
been a a few occasions I've goneinto some caves or caverns and
they're like, you know, and you sit there and think about that,
I'm like, no, there's there's noway.
(19:54):
Like, I don't. I mean, how desperate do you
have to be to put food on your family's table to do that?
I mean, I probably would if I had to.
There was no other option at that point.
But it is, it is crazy. So, yeah.
So there's a lot of souls out there that are still wandering
the tunnels, searching for theirway out.
(20:16):
But not everything in Jerome is bad, right?
Jerome, it went through its standard.
It was a huge Coppertail, lots of prosperity.
And then it dove, right? The decline went down.
Never really wanted anymore. There was decline.
It literally went into ghost town mode.
And then in the 60s and 70s, artists began to settle there,
(20:37):
attracted by, you know, the unique texture of the town and
the stunning views. Like I've said before, it is
over the Verde Valley. You can literally just look and
just see open sky. It is beautiful.
And when we went through there, it is becoming a vibrant artist
community. It's got galleries, it's got
studios, it's got boutiques, it's got little wine shops.
(20:58):
There's like really cool vintageboutique things.
And it's all independently owned.
It's very funky. There is no change, right?
It's all just everything is owned by the person that owns
it. And the vibe is very, very,
very. So they basically permitted the
and there is a lot of town, there's a couple of towns like
(21:20):
that that I'm aware of. There is one in Delaware as well
where you have to be a small independent business.
They will not let any kind of change or conglomerates into the
community to make sure that essentially the town is being
able to sustain itself. It's about Arden.
Yes, I love Arden. I went to a very cool wedding up
(21:40):
there with that. But yeah, it's, it's most
definitely like that. It's like, you know, everybody
is just, they've got their own. There's glass blowing and they
turned in, you know, you could go through the jail, but like
the old courthouse, they turned into an artist studio and every
room has its own setup and it's just very, very neat.
I really liked. It I like revitalization,
(22:01):
especially if it's unique revitalization.
I love small towns. I've never lived in one myself,
but that's one thing I would love at some point in time to
do. To be able to live in a small
sustainable town where I can people when I feel like it, and
then also be on the outskirts where I can do my own thing.
Yeah, I you'd love it. And I, I think if you, if you're
(22:23):
ever in the mood for like doing a research, whatever you do an
Airbnb and just search for room rooms that are available in
Jerome. They have some of the funkiest
unique like setups, you know, that you can rent and stay in.
It's not it's not hotel chain. Like if you're if you're in the
mood for character and history and just neatness, I think it's
a very, very. Good place.
(22:44):
Well, you know me like my motto is I embrace my I embrace my
strange. And actually that's where I got
the inspiration for my my closet, though the one vintage
shop that I stopped in, they hadlike the old 50s, sixties pin
ups and she did her whole shop around that vibe.
That was very, very cool. So anyway, so So what is the
(23:07):
haunting truth here? Was Jerome really the wickedest
town in the West? Or was it just a marketing
gimmick? I don't really know about the
wickedest town in the West. I didn't hear anything in that
that made it any worse than any other town in the last.
It sounds like kind of standard Western.
Towns. Yeah, I mean, like, look, even
Thurmond, it was the same way. Yeah, yeah, I mean it, it's I
(23:29):
think it's just fun. I mean, if you if you search to
roam and you look for books there, there is a book, it's in
the book recommendations. It is called The Wickedest Town
of the West, but I feel like that's kind of a self-imposed
moniker, kind of like trying to like.
Yeah, you know, it's a tourist attraction.
Name give. Me my own nickname, because you
really can't do that. Is it really haunted?
That I do believe is probably true and there is a lot of
(23:52):
evidence that's out there on YouTube and so on.
Again, I am on that belief, so Ithink that's probably true, but
what are your thoughts? Do you think it's haunted?
Do you think it's that? I mean, I definitely think
everything has a haunting in some way, even if it's residual.
And with so many things happening in the town, most
Western towns that are long since abandoned or even still
operational, they do have a lot of hauntings.
(24:15):
There's a lot of trauma. There's a lot of people who seem
to be kind of stuck there just based on how hard of a life that
they specifically had, or peoplewho just don't realize that
they're no longer have to live that kind of life.
And as I said, they're in a looplike they don't realize it's
over. Because they just.
It was such a bad situation for them so.
(24:35):
And maybe for the dude that got murdered and framed with the
elevator, I don't know, Maybe he's got some things he's got a
he's got. Some unresolved issues,
obviously unresolved. Issues I think is, is it
actually? I think that's enough.
That should be another sticker for us when we're putting our
comedy unresolved issues. But you know, so was Jerome
really weakest? I don't know.
(24:56):
Probably not. Is it haunted?
Yes, I I do think it is. But what I do know for sure is
that it's a great time to visit.Like I said, it's small, but
it's surrounded by beauty. My kids absolutely loved it.
It's full of funky independent boutiques, art galleries, wine
stores, in addition to history. So if you like both of those
things, it's really cool. And I mean, if it's good enough
for Maynard James Keenan, I do. I don't know if you know who
(25:20):
that is. I do.
He's the lead singer Tool. Yeah.
And a perfect circle. He is a wine maker and he does
run Caduceus Cellars out of Jerome, and he lives there
today. He has a residence there today.
So it's good enough for him. I think it's probably good
enough for quite a few people tocheck out.
Yeah, I do recommend a stay at the Grand Hotel.
Try Room 32 if you can get it. And don't forget the cactus
(25:42):
candy. Like it's literally everywhere.
If you've never had cactus candy, have you ever seen cactus
candy? I've not.
It's like. Jelly.
It's like Jelly thing. It's it comes in this package
and it looks like, I want to saylike watermelon sours.
OK, Square. OK.
And. They're like pink and they sell
(26:03):
it literally everywhere because they make it out of the cacti
that's around there. So you got to try the cactus
candy. I love this kind of like little
kitschy. Yeah, it's, it's their thing.
I didn't try it because it looked like the box of cactus
Candy that was getting pushed onme at that one shop had been
there for like 3 years, really wasn't that interested in it,
but I hear it's good. I don't know.
(26:23):
So if any of our listeners have ever tried Cactus Candy, please
let us know. Yeah, how it was.
So thank you all for joining us today.
I appreciate your time. Like I said, Jerome's a very,
very cool place to be. If you have anything else that
you'd like to let us know, have us check out or disagree with,
please let us know. And if you liked it, please
(26:43):
share, subscribe, and so on. And Jen, any other words of
wisdom for us before we shout out for the week?
No, as I said, go visit, see what you think, see what the
truth is for you specifically inJerome.
And if you've been to other Western towns, let us know.
If you really think it was the wickedest town in the West, that
would be good to know. That is good.
(27:04):
So until next week, seekers lookthrough the lies and.
Don't drink the water. There may be bodies in it.
Yeah. We don't want the bodies.
We don't want the bodies. No, I don't think so.
Bye. All right.
Bye.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com