Separating Art from Artist - Haven Exchange #66 - The Haven Exchange

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Genesis (00:01):
Welcome to The Haven exchange podcast number 66. We
have a brand new episode for youthis week and we are asking the
question and you separate artfrom the artist, or at what
point do the negative actions ofthe musician, actor, athlete etc
reflect back upon their works orcreations. This was a tricky one

(00:21):
and one that can make you think.
Ultimately, it is a personalchoice, but keep on listening to
catch our opinions on thesubject. And a side note, I love
seeing our older episodescontinue to get listens. And
that falls perfectly with ourgoal of being a pick your poison
style show. Though, if you'renew to the Haven exchange, be
sure to browse our entirecatalogue of episodes and pick a

(00:42):
topic you find most interesting.
And don't forget to share it.
Alright, it's time to get cringywith celebs This is Haven
exchange number 66 separatingart from the artist. This

Rick (01:31):
is the Haven exchange?
What if every time you snap yourfingers someone died? But how

Genesis (01:39):
do you go down that rabbit hole I

Rick (01:41):
just noticed like now I was really thinking about like
the butterfly fed Right? And howone thing happened someplace and
on the other side of the worldwhatever tab and then I started
thinking about what if our ifyou believe in God and
everything what if your accessto heaven was based on not just

(02:02):
whether or not you kill peoplein real life, but video game
deaths as well. Every one ofevery time you killed someone no
matter what it is gamingwhatever the case may be God's
looking into life.

Genesis (02:16):
As always take the good route and video games, let's say

Sage (02:22):
video games. I mean if a video game life matters, books
matter. I mean every time youstepped on a plant and it died
that matters. I mean you soyou're just doomed to fucking
murder people your entire life

Genesis (02:35):
so you gotta watch the good place to be or get points
for literally everything you dopositive or negative

Rick (02:40):
I have watched well I will when I play games I do choose
the good route I know it's beenyour fault but you still like
when in a game like Unchartedyou're the good guy but I mean
let's be honest Nathan Drake isa mass murderer like he you're
killing like 100,000 people pergame you're just murdering a
bunch of people.

Genesis (03:00):
So when you say rabbit hole these are just rabbit holes
in your own head because when wetalk about rabbit holes it's
like you're you're on YouTubeand you're searching something
in particular and then thatleads you to something and then
that leads you to something therabbit hole but you just said I
rabbit hole snapping my fingersinstantly kills somebody random
on the planet I'm trying tofigure out what that Google

(03:21):
search was or what even is onthe rabbit hole

Sage (03:26):
how to kill people mind

Rick (03:31):
watching them myself

Genesis (03:32):
or agenda I

Rick (03:34):
know a lot of it was just watching panels to snap like 100
time.

Genesis (03:39):
I guess that is the equivalent to snap right? Would
you all do that then

Rick (03:42):
Oh snap. Would you take all life if you could

Genesis (03:47):
kind of question is that I would

Rick (03:49):
happily I probably would.

Genesis (03:54):
entirety of the universe

Sage (03:56):
that a question is too many people. better question is
Was you do the Thanos snap,knowing that the snap still
applies to you as well.

Rick (04:05):
All I gotta take myself up.

Sage (04:06):
Yeah. Yeah,

Rick (04:07):
I mean, I probably still would like to

Genesis (04:13):
said nobody ever.

Rick (04:14):
No kidding. I'm kidding.
Now,

Genesis (04:17):
there's this species that's across five galaxies. All
they do is produce planets forthe universe to survive. Like
it's this whole entire ecosystemthat we're not even aware of
each planet is like a cellwithin our body that's needed in
this sort of combined effort toreally grow any sort of humanity
and you just stand Oh, snapthose people.

Sage (04:39):
You just had to bring aliens into this into of course,

Genesis (04:42):
if you're talking about the universe, you might as well
talk about aliens too, becauseyou're talking about just half
earth.

Sage (04:49):
No, we're talking about aliens to first and foremost
Sigourney Weaver has to survive.
No, no, she

Genesis (04:54):
may or may not. That's a risk you're going to take what
a Thanos snap.

Sage (04:57):
No, nobody got that over

Genesis (04:59):
because she You was in the movie Aliens.

Sage (05:02):
Hey, yeah, hey, yes, yeah,

Genesis (05:03):
I obviously I got somebody else here probably
didn't.

Rick (05:09):
Well, first of all, how effing dare you. Second of all,
I didn't hear that my girls weremaking noise I muted it.

Sage (05:16):
So if you snapped them, they wouldn't be making noise.

Genesis (05:21):
What happens if you snap and half your kids go

Rick (05:24):
away? No matter what if I hold their hands while I do the
snap? Are they protected to

Sage (05:31):
memories? If you snap you're also included in SNAP.
fair game.

Genesis (05:37):
Wasn't everybody holding on to Thanos his hand
when he did the snap?

Rick (05:40):
No. No, he just Well, I think when he did the snap the
first time, the war had hisStormbreaker. He had it so
technically, yeah. First of all,I understand this is Disney. But
if you're about to take it downa madman, why are you not
automatically going for the hit?

Sage (06:00):
Because he just he wanted to remain or he wanted to see
him suffer. I'm sorry. Adipeople that sit there and say
after the new Spider Man movie,that Peter Parker has had the
worst? Fuck ya. So I've beenthrough some shit. Yeah.

Genesis (06:15):
We only know part of it.

Sage (06:17):
Like this man in the span of 10 years lost his planet. His
eye? His mom his dad. Hisbrother, his sister who he
didn't really like that much butstill lost her.

Genesis (06:28):
We don't even know how old he is right? Thinking like
1500 Yeah So 10 years out of the1500 went through some shit

Sage (06:38):
oh any losses girl got her back if you've seen the new
movie we already know whathappened

Rick (06:45):
we lost an eye

Sage (06:50):
and he still was there handling business are lower bid
you

Genesis (06:57):
don't need to disrespect them like that.

Sage (06:59):
Star Wars reason that even got to end game they could have
ended up doing their thing theyhad it.

Rick (07:05):
They literally headed in a fucked up. Well not they fucked
up StarLord falls

Sage (07:13):
for a minute. We're having a movie conversation and Derek
is actually keeping up.

Genesis (07:19):
Smile applause

Rick (07:20):
was Marvel. I've seen all these Marvel movies. I've seen
all the show's Marvel amalan

Genesis (07:26):
not just YouTube dancing. No.

Rick (07:29):
You know how can you YouTube a marvel? I guess you
can YouTube them now but nodoing exactly the spoilers and
shit. I go see those movies asclose to opening night as
possible.

Genesis (07:40):
Well, let me ask you guys this. Now if Thanos let's
say you know the Avengers didn'toverthrow him. anos does the
snap. Well actually, we had whatthe five years between the snap
and when they correctedeverything. So within that five
years, let's say Thanos comesout with one mixtapes ever. This

(08:05):
mixtape ever, like are you stillbopping to it?

Rick (08:09):
100% 100% 100% Because it's gonna incarcerate

Genesis (08:13):
half your family.

Sage (08:15):
He's been at Hearthfire who don't who are arguing?

Genesis (08:21):
Well, that's what we're gonna find out on this episode.
Welcome everybody to anotherepisode. My name is Genesis one
of the CO hosts here on yourweekly podcast of news
shenanigans, pop culture andthings that Rick has never heard
of. Who is Rick, might you ask?
Who do we have with us tonight?

Rick (08:43):
What's going on? Yo,

Genesis (08:45):
what's up? No. And, and we also have some extra I was
like, Okay.

Rick (08:51):
I've been practicing that thought about doing some extra.

Sage (08:54):
Using the picture of the dude yelling at himself in the
mirror. I can do better thanthat with him at home.

Rick (08:59):
Oh my god.

Sage (09:04):
Yeah, this is Sage, no gimmicky name today.

Genesis (09:08):
Let's go it is illness.
We use the real sage.

Sage (09:12):
Nobody gets there.
Otherwise I'd be in jail.

Genesis (09:16):
All right. Well, Rick, why don't you tell everybody
what we're going to be talkingabout today and why you want to
talk about it.

Rick (09:22):
So today's topic, can we separate the art from the
artist? We know that there are alot of celebrities out there who
do a lot of foul shit, right.
Oh, they also happen to be kindof top of the class in their
field.

Sage (09:36):
So celebrities are infallible.

Rick (09:40):
I mean, they are they are Johnny Depp. You know.

Sage (09:43):
That's a Google word for some of you listeners.

Genesis (09:47):
Financial speller farm

Sage (09:49):
know what it means to pronounce it.

Rick (09:54):
Hey,

Genesis (09:56):
Fallon, Jimmy Fallon.

Sage (09:58):
Jimmy Fallon got it.

Rick (10:02):
I mean here. So yeah, that I was really thinking about this
because there was an actor thatwas recently in news and they
are in a lot of hot water. Andit kind of got me thinking, can
we still support their movie?
After everything that they'vebeen doing over the last couple
of months? You know, it justkind of went down this long
rabbit hole of just I've gotabout about 20 different artists

(10:25):
or celebrities instead of ours.

Sage (10:31):
Why are you being cryptic?
We don't notice them on thefucker who is

Rick (10:35):
well, I guess I can start with that. So the first person
and the reason why I said therebecause their pronouns are they
them. Ezra Miller think he didnow go back to him. I don't
think he's a non binary anymore

Sage (10:50):
to go to jail. All right, Miller.

Rick (10:58):
So as Ron Miller is, I guess the shortest answer is
he's the flash in the DCuniverse. Right? See the live
action?

Sage (11:07):
I'm gonna say the shortest answer. He's a he's a
professional fuckup.

Genesis (11:13):
I haven't actually heard anything. Oh, yeah.

Sage (11:16):
How have you not?

Rick (11:19):
Every time you look up in the news, this man,

Genesis (11:22):
I've already dismissed DC completely. So there's that's
one reason web execs

Sage (11:27):
have to be sweating every morning when they check the
news.

Genesis (11:31):
So Ezra Miller was also the CWs flash or is that a
different actor? That's great.
That they pulled them for forthe Justice League.

Sage (11:43):
Because WB in DC, they're a bunch of fucking idiots. They
made this whole universe on theCW, with all these fan favorite
actors playing these roles, thenthey decided, You know what,
let's do movies. But we're notgoing to use any of these
fucking guys.

Rick (11:59):
I think if I'm not mistaken arrow, verse arrow, and
the flash were both alreadystarted before the DC. I mean,
aside from mana steel, I think,right? Yeah. Everything else was

Sage (12:09):
done way out there. And everybody was like, yeah,
definitely pick them. Andthey're like, Nah,

Rick (12:13):
we'll use you absolutely shouldn't use grant and arrow
came. Stephen Amell. Like, youdefinitely shouldn't use them
for your DC Universe. But backto Ezra Miller. So if you aren't
aware, as Ron Miller has beenon, like a string of tear over
the last like two years, wherethere was a video of him,

(12:36):
allegedly choking a woman in Ican't remember what kind of
store was but they were in astore. choke the woman. It was
weird, too. He was like, Oh, doyou want to get choked? Just
choked there

Sage (12:48):
was crazy. He's like, five, five, maybe 170 pounds
soaking wet. Anybody could kickhis ass.

Rick (12:57):
Not a real threatening person, but because of the
mental state there and you cantell there's something wrong.
Right there menacing right now.
And then there was an incidentin Hawaii. I think he threw a
chair at a woman. And like, gotinto a fight at a bar.

Sage (13:14):
A couple in Hawaii.

Rick (13:16):
Yeah. Type a couple in Hawaii. Oh, and then he
allegedly remember we have tosay a legend. You know, can't
you know? Well then there's alsothe grooming allegations where
he befriended a mom and there Ithink she was like 15 at the
time when the when Ezra got intothe picture and kind of morphed
her to also then be trans and tojust completely go down this

(13:39):
life of crime, like stealingdrugs, all kinds of shit.

Sage (13:42):
took her to Canada. Yeah,

Rick (13:46):
he lives for Canada and then is and then very recently,
I think he vandalize the farm inVermont. Or not only did he
vandalize the farm but then theyalso found him with a load of
guns and ammunition.

Sage (14:01):
Oh so you didn't hear one from yesterday yesterday he's on
fucking criminal charges becausehe broke into a liquor store and
stole a shit ton of alcohol sonow he's up for criminal felony
too.

Genesis (14:12):
Yeah, wow the spiral this sounds like fucking self
destructiveness

Sage (14:20):
professional fuck up.

Rick (14:22):
There was some rumors that the behavior kind of started
around was it like 2011 for alittle bit, and then just ever
since 2020 just shit has justgone completely down. Now, I
don't know if it was COVIDrelated because like the very
first incident was on April 6,right we're a couple weeks into

(14:42):
lockdown. So I don't know ifmaybe that triggered something

Genesis (14:46):
their acting career taken.

Sage (14:51):
Only till recently well, maybe a month ago because of the
action because everything web tokind of like it wouldn't happen
and for the longest time Andthen they're finally like,
alright

Rick (15:04):
so this is some of as far as accolades for movies, right?
They were in Batman v Superman,which I know whatever. Side
squad for a second as the Flash.
They've also been in all thefantastic beasts movies like
credence barebone. Yeah.

Sage (15:24):
I didn't put two and two together. And I'm barely

Genesis (15:27):
paid attention to those garbage movies.

Rick (15:30):
And then they have two movies coming out. movies coming
out very soon to dolly land andthe flesh, both of which are

Sage (15:38):
in post production. He coming out with flesh.

Rick (15:41):
No, no. And he was also in episode of the peacemaker, as
the flesh. That's another one.

Sage (15:46):
That was hilarious. I'm not gonna like his little
performance.

Rick (15:53):
But like this dude, it's not like his career was going
downhill. It was very much onthe rise. So this is completely
self inflicted. Now, there hadbeen speculation that maybe
Hollywood's kind of like acesspool for like abuse and all
kinds of shifts. I wouldn't besurprised if someone talked to
them. And then that kind oftriggered something.

Sage (16:10):
My thing with him is everything he's done, he's been
saying that oh, it was all indefense of like transphobia and
shit like that. And I'm like, Ifeel like you're just using this
as a fucking excuse now to justbe a straight

Genesis (16:25):
Yeah, like, steal a bunch of alcohol. In the name of
trans rights I don't really seethe confusion unless

Rick (16:32):
I know Genesis you probably aren't familiar with
the Instagram video that heposted but he also went on
Instagram rant about the kk kapparently he's at war with a
certain sector of the kk k andjust was like, if you want to go
kill yourself that's fine. Notyou know where to find me. Oh,
yeah,

Sage (16:50):
I remember that. Like,

Genesis (16:52):
like challenging the kk k? Yeah, dude. For me, I guess.
I mean, I don't see a problemwith that.

Rick (16:58):
I'm not I don't but I was probably gonna have problem with
it. But I think it's one of

Genesis (17:05):
those the guy that wants to Thanos snap. Do you

Rick (17:09):
like how could that would that be if you did this snap and
like for some reason, all the kkk

Genesis (17:18):
can I snap again?

Rick (17:19):
Like, what if the snap save like all the worst people?

Genesis (17:24):
That's I mean, statistically, that's possible.

Rick (17:27):
It's very likely Yeah.
Because if it's random, you'renot going to get all the bad
ones. The universe.

Genesis (17:35):
Just all K K. K survived. Fuck.

Rick (17:39):
So yeah, I mean,

Genesis (17:41):
so it adds rest. So I guess to go with the topic here
is does the actions of Ezrachange how we look at you know,
their film work?

Sage (17:49):
Right. Can you want he's literally done nothing of note
for me to give a fuck about him.

Rick (17:55):
Yeah, I agree. Because Kay's version of the Flash I
think is weird. I don't care forhis work flash,

Sage (18:01):
Grant Gustin a little whereas he was a little bit, you
know, on the crybaby, and Iliked his flash much

Rick (18:08):
more. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the show was pretty good. So I
definitely until

Sage (18:12):
they became very repetitive with oh, that's
another Speedster. It's anotherspinner. I'm like I'm done with
this.

Genesis (18:19):
Well, how is social media and the news media
outlets? Are they vying for EzraMiller's cancellation?

Sage (18:27):
Everybody agrees that he's crazy. There's no debate.
Everybody's like,

Genesis (18:32):
but you said that he's in the future Fantastic Beasts
like are they trying to pullthat or do any alterations to
this if he got

Sage (18:39):
kicked out of the flash?
There's no way he's in thefuture. Fantastic. He's like
they basically did cancel. Yeah,they flat he fucking drugged
their feet about it. But yeah,they finally like nah. Like the
there's only so much we can tryto cover I think he would just
try to see how much fucking shithe could get away with.

Genesis (18:59):
So they necessarily cancel him but he's if he has
canceled himself

Sage (19:03):
Yeah, if he gets another acting role in the next five to
six years I will be surprised.

Genesis (19:09):
How are we seeing what's his name make a comeback
from a lot of bad shit. I andMAN Yeah.

Sage (19:16):
That was self inflicted.
He was a drug. He was a drugaddict, right? Yeah, he wouldn't
out here beaten people for nogoddamn reason.

Rick (19:24):
He wasn't he wasn't the literal Joker. I mean, that's
what it was pretty much become.

Genesis (19:30):
That's wild.

Sage (19:32):
I mean, we did watch a YouTube estimate even like, how
was he still acting? Like

Genesis (19:40):
that's what I thought when I heard all this shit about
sucking Marky Mark. I had noidea.

Sage (19:45):
Yeah, he's be shit.

Genesis (19:48):
No clue the best of that man. Yeah. Piece of shit.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, the stuffyou mentioned. I mean, I guess
the choking you said that theychoked a woman for just Out of
nowhere.

Rick (20:01):
Yeah, it was not, you know, at the choking incident, I
believe it was something. Theywere just like, oh, it says that
they were at a bar that hefrequently goes to. And it says,
yeah, it was just an argumentand then he just choked. It
didn't really seem like therewas too much that really led up
to it. I actually, you know,there was another video, where

(20:25):
and I this is why it's prettymuch confirmed it's mental
illness of some sort, obviously,right. But he is being detained
by the police and like in themiddle of the cop patting him
down. I mean, just goes on thisweird rant about I'm trans. I
don't want the

Genesis (20:41):
police or what, arresting them or something or
trying to white handcuff Ezra,and they're just sitting there
spouting off or, you know, hey,I want a female police officer
to do this. Is that basicallywhat happened?

Rick (20:56):
Yeah, basically, I'm going to read this paragraph, and it's
going to pretty much sum up thatwhole thing because this was all
in Hawaii and this was all thisyear. Mark. Okay.

Sage (21:07):
He did so much in Hawaii like Hawaii, states like just

Rick (21:12):
thing had to advance.
Like, you're not allowed in thiscountry for

Sage (21:18):
this. What again?

Genesis (21:20):
I was gonna say,

Rick (21:21):
I didn't mean to say country. State. I don't know why
I say country you're not allowedthis state.
Okay, so it says on March28 2022, Miller was arrested in
Hawaii following an allegedphysical altercation with
patrons after having hurledobscenities at clients at a

(21:45):
karaoke bar and was charged withdisorderly conduct and
harassment. However, three weekslater on April 19, Miller was
again taken into custody forthird degree assaults where
police authorities in PA hola Iguess

Sage (22:01):
don't ask me

Rick (22:03):
for for allegedly throwing a chair which hit a 26 year old
woman and let the half inch cuton her forehead after being told
to leave during a private gettogether. Miller had then been
arrested 20 minutes after theattack during a traffic stop on
highway 30. Wow, all of al QaedaAm I just says just hours after

(22:26):
that second arrest. He pleadedno contest to the karaoke
incident. It was fine. It wasonly fined $500 for disorderly
conduct. And then two monthslater in June

Sage (22:39):
to be white in America.

Genesis (22:43):
Why it's a different country.

Rick (22:45):
Shut up. Shut up. Shut off the ESB do me a favor edit that
out. So they just sound stupid.
They don't like there's nocontext to what we do just Ezra
has been on an absolute, liketear through Hawaii Sandy. And
like

Sage (23:04):
I'm looking at right now.
So not only was he accused ofthe whole grooming thing, but
apparently he also started acoat.

Genesis (23:12):
Yeah, sounds about right with what I'm hearing. I'm
not surprised.

Sage (23:17):
The news minutes. He's a fucking minutes. Okay.

Genesis (23:20):
I mean, it feels like a cult leaders name though.

Sage (23:23):
It kind of goes on.

Rick (23:26):
My nephew's name is I don't know if I agree with that.
I guess we'll see in a coupleyou see, right. If he joins or
creates a call them. All right,you have you have evidence to
recommend

Genesis (23:39):
a friendly call. It doesn't have to be a bad call.

Rick (23:43):
That's true. That's true.

Sage (23:44):
I will say this though. If I had to take place a bet on who
I thought was going to lose itthe most between Ezra and Kanye
my all my money would have beenon Kanye.

Rick (23:54):
I mean, to be fair, I think they both have lost their
mind. I think the onlydifference is is Kanye is is is
technically not illegal.

Genesis (24:06):
Like and I'm really hurting anybody. Right, right.
Well, no. I mean,

Rick (24:09):
you could definitely say he's hurting Kim K with her
relationships and shit likethat. And he's really going a
little too aggressive. I can'tget like, Bro. She doesn't

Sage (24:18):
qMk is hard. And Kim came in here reflecting on me.

Rick (24:20):
I mean, that's true.
That's true.

Sage (24:22):
She's a professional horse. Let's be real. Whoa,
she's

Rick (24:27):
all right now. So it says we spend enough time on Ezra. So
are we all in agreement? I mean,I guess we don't really know. I
mean, can you watch the flash?
Yeah. Well, I

Genesis (24:36):
mean, yeah, I think that's the question. Right. And
I think a lot of these I mean,it's good that we kind of are
going to look at these case bycase. I think generally
speaking, I mean, at least forme, I can keep it separate. You
know, especially you know, whenyou're thinking of an actor,
does that ruin the entirety ofthe movie and you have all these
other actors and production teamthat goes behind? In putting

(25:00):
these pieces of contenttogether,

Sage (25:02):
honestly, for me, if they come up with a flash movie, I'm
not gonna watch it. That beingsaid, if they decided fuck it,
they're into the curve and comeout with the Joker movie as him.
I'm all in.

Genesis (25:17):
So as remailer should play a villain and you'll be
okay.

Sage (25:22):
No, not a villain. He should play the Joker because
he's already doing in real life.
So it's not okay. It's gonna beepic.

Genesis (25:33):
I don't know. But like you're saying, but as the Flash
though, you wouldn't see that,specifically due to his actions
in real life.

Sage (25:44):
Probably has nothing to do from being real has nothing to
his actions. I just wouldn'tdon't see the movie to begin
with. Because that Grant GustinI don't really give a shit. But
his accent didn't help. I mean,it made for great news, because
every day I'm like, Oh, what didthis crazy motherfucker do
today?

Rick (26:01):
Right. Oh, my goodness.
Okay, so I think I can kind ofecho what you said. I'm still
gonna see the flat 20. Well,yeah, if they if they release
it, which is also weird towatch. That's fine. But you
cancel. Bad Girl, for whateverreason, which would have given
us Brendan Fraser as a villain,which would have been dope. And

(26:25):
then Michael Keaton would havebeen in it. That girl

Sage (26:29):
has been on a fucking thread since it came out. That
girl, and I met one

Rick (26:36):
CW that want to stay on topic. Remind me I do want to
ask you all what's yourfavorite? Well, we could talk
about that Off mic. But I mean,if you bring it

Sage (26:45):
up, just ask.

Rick (26:47):
But then this assholes viewer aecb Good tip.

Genesis (26:51):
So what's the next celebrity? Yes. All

Rick (26:55):
right. So so I

Genesis (27:00):
think I'm up. So then.

Rick (27:03):
So the next one I have here, and I think this one might
be a little difficult. KevinSpacey. Ah, Kevin. Spacey is a
great actor. Right? He's in someof my favorite movies like a
negotiator. One of my favoritemovies.

Sage (27:18):
I actually just watched that again for maybe eight times
the other

Rick (27:22):
day. Such a good movie. I love them.

Sage (27:25):
I'm kind of in a weird boat with it because I get what
he did was fucked up. And thenand then him trying to cop out.
Oh, by the way, like nobodyactually

Genesis (27:37):
didn't start from the beginning and what his offenses
were and the adventure that

Rick (27:43):
so it all came crumbling down for him in 2017. Right.
There's an actor.

Sage (27:50):
That was Corey Feldman that caught him out. No,

Rick (27:53):
the very first accusation was Anthony Rapp. I think
Anthony Rapp is on that.

Sage (27:59):
Yeah, he's really, he's, he's from rent. He was a well, I
want the musical version ofPsych. Z, Justin. Oh, okay.
That's Anthony Rapp. He's fromhe from Juliet. Awesome at him.

Rick (28:14):
He's also in a show that Seth MacFarlane show the
Orville. Yeah, he hasn't. That'sthe most I think that's the most
recent thing. He had been inStar Trek Discovery. Oh, was he
in?

Sage (28:26):
he's most famous for rent because he was from the original
Broadway cast. Never saw justdifferent like that.

Rick (28:34):
No, no, I didn't never heard of it. Okay, so rap
alleges that spacey basicallymade a sexual advance towards
him when he was 14. Right. Andthen there were a few other
they, they're all pretty muchanonymous. I don't think there's
any like, I think Corey Feldmanis one that's not anonymous, but

(28:58):
for the most part, a lot ofanonymous people have come out
saying that, you know, theyeither had a sexual relationship
with spacey when they were 14 or15.

Genesis (29:07):
Okay, I was like, Wait, why is that a problem?

Rick (29:12):
They were all 14.

Genesis (29:13):
Like this is all underage.

Sage (29:17):
Which really makes you think about American Beauty in a
different light. Yeah.

Rick (29:23):
I got one. Yeah, well, yeah. So there's another one
Justin door that said that hemade America

Sage (29:31):
you've never seen American Beauty heavy. No,

Rick (29:33):
Justin Dawn's he told BuzzFeed that spacey made sexual
advances in 1988 When dogs was16 and spacey was 29. Wow. Yeah.
And a lot of it is all likespacey gave them alcohol or they
woke up to spacey laying on topof them

Genesis (29:49):
is Bill Cosby shit with drugs involved. Well, nation and
shit or

Rick (29:54):
no, the ones that are anonymous. They all kind of have
not the same story not todownplay are the same, but rap
is the only one that said theywere at a party. And then I
think rap was drunk, or likeunder the influence of some
sort. And spacey picked him up,took them to the bedroom, and
just was lying on top of them.
Yeah, that's

Genesis (30:16):
kind of creepy. Super creepy. But,

Rick (30:19):
I mean, this was in 1986.
Right. And so it's weird for acase like this, because how do
you prove something like that?
Aside from ease, he said,

Sage (30:29):
um, they did it for Bill.
So

Rick (30:33):
yeah, that's true. Let's see what they also got Bill,
kind of admitting to it, saying,hey, you know, I would take
drugs all the time with peopleand all that kind of shit,
because Bill Cosby is definitelyon this list if you didn't know.

Genesis (30:45):
Well, I mean, I guess like, I don't know, if this went
to, to the courts, or if it'sstill ongoing, but I would
imagine like, after Anthony Rappsort of speaks out to this about
like this prominent celebrity,right. And then you get a bunch
of people that come out insaying, Oh, I had this similar
experience, there's gonna besome evidence amongst, you

Sage (31:06):
know, somewhere, and that's where the PSA de
resistance. That's where thathappened. Because out of Hoover
coming out, then at a randomaward show, had nothing to do
about that, about any of that.
He was like, so I'm gay. Andwe're like, what? Nobody fucking
asked you.

Rick (31:25):
Yeah. Not only that, but like, I think it's pretty well
known that his father wasabusive to him and his brother.
So I think he tried to use thatas an excuse. Okay, because now
so it is in the courts. He

Genesis (31:42):
admitted this, then, never actually,

Rick (31:45):
no, he's denied all of it.
But he isn't. He is scheduled togo to UK for trial in June of
next year. But it was recentlyruled that a Los Angeles judge
has ruled that spacey must payalmost $31 million to the makers
of House of Cards. After theyfired him, because he was

(32:06):
allegedly sexually harassingmultiple crew members while on
the show. Oh, yeah. Is thisYeah, this it's like there's a
reason why he's closely comparedto Harvey Weinstein. There's way
too many accusations from it'salmost not let's

Sage (32:24):
be real. The only reason that he has to pay that much
money to the creators of Houseof Cards is because they were
already in the middle of theirfilming their new season.

Genesis (32:34):
Yeah, they're losing out on all that revenue.
winfuture

Sage (32:38):
All this happened. And they they had the fire scenario,
like what the fuck?

Rick (32:43):
pillar of the shadow faith of it. Yeah. But I mean, the
show was already going downhillfrom there well before his
allegations, but I don't know ifthey legally can make you pay
for something like they firedhim. They didn't have to fire
him. Right. Yeah, no.

Sage (33:00):
breach of contract can be a breach of contract most most
lies that he's guilty ofwhatever. Most most contracts
have morality clauses and it'ssomewhere.

Rick (33:09):
Right, but I feel like legally, can't you fight that
and be like, How can you saythat I did this when you don't
have any proof that I actuallydo? Yeah.

Genesis (33:17):
And I'm sure I mean, that could be what comes after
maybe a not guilty verdict

Rick (33:22):
from he could probably countersue maybe, right? Like,
Hey, fuck you. I was foundinnocent. So I want my 31 mil
back.

Genesis (33:29):
Okay, so the timeline is out. So Anthony Rapp comes
out and says these, Kevin Spaceymay

Rick (33:36):
be angry, wrapped, started the whole thing.

Genesis (33:39):
And then other people came out or then this the award
ceremony.

Sage (33:45):
Other people came out, came out.

Genesis (33:48):
And then he just said, Okay, I'm gay whilst denying all
these allegations. So he wastotally trying to shift the

Sage (33:57):
shift the focus 100% Yeah.

Rick (34:01):
You know who Richard Dreyfus is? Yeah. His son Harry
Dreyfus, alleges that spaceygroped him when he was 18 in
2008

Sage (34:11):
Well, that's not really right. I mean, he's at No, I
mean,

Rick (34:13):
grope is still like it's still unsolved. Like it's legal.

Sage (34:18):
He was out. He was old enough to fight back.

Genesis (34:24):
It's Kevin Spacey though.

Rick (34:26):
This is funny. Here's another one. In 2008, an
anonymous man in Scotland, wokeup to spacey billowing. When he
was 23 Yeah, he said spaceyinvited him to his home in
London to help him with hiscareer. He says they smoke some
weed passed out and then when hewoke up, he was doing that.

Sage (34:49):
I'm sorry. He's an idiot for that. I'm sorry. Don't get
me wrong. I mean, spacey isstill definitely terrible for
doing that. But that guy is alsoan idiot. He's 23 guys like, oh
yeah, come back to my house andhelp you with your career. This
is Hollywood talking about. Ifan actor fails to come back to
his house, he's gonna hit mewith career, some freaky shit

(35:11):
about to go now. We're not aboutto go there and fire. We're not
about to go there and run lines.
I mean, we're probably going torun lines off the table, but
we're not fucking running lines.

Genesis (35:20):
Now, what year that is that happened 2008 Okay, I mean,
that's still fairly recentenough. But that what, what I
was trying to think of was thatwe have a very different picture
of Hollywood today than we did20 years ago, to where we kind
of have these I mean, less andless like stereotypes because of

(35:43):
all the

Sage (35:44):
knew what the fuck was up.
Right,

Genesis (35:46):
right. So like, Yeah, I mean, but maybe not everybody
assumed that everybody was justbad and nasty and gross.

Rick (35:54):
Well, you didn't think that about every holiday? Well,
at least, we might have thoughtthat back in 2008. But I mean,
yeah, I think it was taken.

Sage (36:02):
I think it was 2008 or 2009, something like that. Our
scene was bartending. And Iwould go to this bar and the bar
owner would sit down like, oh,yeah, I'm really good friends
with, like Brian McKnight orwhatever would call them on the
phone was like, I can't Whydon't you come over? You know,
we can get up. He was gay. He'slike, why don't you come over,
whatever. You know, we can getthem on phones, like nah, I'm

(36:23):
okay.

Genesis (36:25):
I'm on the phone like now. You

Sage (36:27):
can call them here. He's like, no, no, we can take a flat
out to calculate now. I'mstraight.

Genesis (36:34):
Yeah, that sounds like some ulterior motive.

Rick (36:37):
Oh, for sure. For sure.
And I mean, it looks like thelatest. Yeah. 2016 There is a
news anchor that alleges spaceysexually assaulted her 18 year
old son.

Sage (36:50):
So at least he's consistent. You know, he knows
what he likes.

Rick (36:57):
Boys. And I guess I guess that's one way of looking at it.

Genesis (37:00):
Right. I mean, does this need a silver lining? i
That's.

Rick (37:05):
Yeah, I'm not really sure what that was. I don't know what
you're doing.

Sage (37:10):
I'm just here. I'm here to talk shit. It's always

Genesis (37:14):
on the bright side of life.

Sage (37:17):
Is it just me because I feel like it might be just me.
Because when all this shit hitthe fan. I stopped watching so
many movies because of that. AndI didn't want to watch the
gladiator because I confuseKevin Spacey and Russell Crowe
all the fucking time

Genesis (37:36):
that's an interesting slob. I don't know how you how
you got that in your head.

Sage (37:40):
The motherfuckers look so much like nothing.

Rick (37:45):
Totally different. I guess.

Sage (37:48):
I mean, Russell Crowe is also an asshole. Yeah,

Rick (37:52):
he has. He has this whole thing about him too, right?

Sage (37:56):
Yeah, he has a whole different thing about him just
beaten up fucking fans for noreason

Rick (38:00):
that fans need to you know back up longer to glow.

Genesis (38:06):
It depends on the situation.

Rick (38:08):
Let me put this out here.
Now if this podcast ever getsthat big to where like I'm
recognized on the street. Don'tget too close. Okay, like we
could shake hands. He could comeup on me but if I don't get

Sage (38:20):
in this ever gets so big that he is recognized. Please
get very close. I will hold him

Genesis (38:28):
he's gonna have fans on him while he's on the other day.

Sage (38:32):
Why is he honored today in public? Let's talk about this
for a second.

Genesis (38:37):
There gonna be installed in public restrooms
across the globe.

Rick (38:40):
They need to be somebody need to wash their hands. So you
clearly don't don't do a goodjob. today to help out with
that.

Sage (38:49):
I don't even know why I'm taking

Rick (38:54):
any anyway. So are we all in agreement with like, Does
this change anything for you allfor a space?

Genesis (39:02):
This one definitely does for me this is this is
different than as Miller atleast you know, I mean, who
knows what else is gonna comeout of Ezra Miller stuff but I
mean, Kevin Spacey This shit isjust pretty foul and gross like
that. It's really hard. Likeeven if everybody a part of
these big cast, like I saidearlier, like you have a whole
team that's putting this contenttogether and it's not all just,

(39:25):
you know, held up as afoundation for this one actor
but it makes it really hard towatch it though with him. It's
rough

Sage (39:32):
because like I say it is Ezra Miller. He doesn't really
have a body of work for us toreally get attached.

Genesis (39:39):
Yeah, it's not as important Exactly.

Sage (39:41):
Kevin Spacey. We kind of, you know, kind of grew up
watching us do. That's like youtell me Robin Williams was out
here touching kids. I'm like,No, say no. It's rough. So I
mean, when I heard it, and Istart coming out, I was like, I
can't rock with Kevin no morewith sucks. Cuz as you say a

(40:01):
negotiator is a great fuckingmovie. Yeah.

Rick (40:05):
So speaking of brotherhood, and how there's a
team of people doing Roseannenoir, I am familiar with why
she's in trouble.

Genesis (40:18):
Can't remember exactly what she said. She got in
trouble a few times. So Ibelieve

Sage (40:22):
she's been extra racist.

Rick (40:24):
She has been racist independent. I think the first
one was when this is rough. Thisis right up your alley, though.
Jen, where she says anyways, oh,so she was doing a photoshoot
where she was wearing kitchenhousewife outfit or whatever.

(40:46):
She had the hair mustache on.
And she was baking cookies. Andshe was implying the cookies
were Jews. And that's prettyhorrible.

Genesis (40:57):
Right. Okay. What's the context of this?

Rick (40:59):
I don't know. Actually. I don't think she I think she
wanted to be funny. I don'tthink they've ever.

Sage (41:07):
I've never liked Roseanne.
I never thought she was funny. Ihated the show. Yeah.

Genesis (41:14):
Oh, you guys are hurting me? Yeah. Roseanne was a
fantastic show. And it was setin Illinois.

Sage (41:21):
While you're watching Roseanne, we were watching. You
know, family matters. I waswatching that to Fresh Prince or
world. Full house.

Genesis (41:30):
Yeah, I watched all those as well. Roseanne,
however, I could relate to youknow, it was a poor white family
that seems similar to my family,you know?

Rick (41:40):
Are they really poor? They weren't poor. They're like,

Sage (41:43):
they had like a five bedroom house. I'm not sure they
were poor.

Rick (41:47):
Like no, they

Genesis (41:48):
were planning. Well, you must not have seen the show
then very much because they weredefinitely

Sage (41:52):
not would have five fucking bedroom house. They were
not born. They were pulling

Genesis (41:56):
my Landford Illinois, poor by white standards
are one step above like, liketrailer trash, which is

Sage (42:08):
eight steps above Blackboard.

Rick (42:12):
Shows go, then I guess.
So. So Right. Right.

Genesis (42:20):
That was she portrayed?

Rick (42:22):
That was a few years ago.
But what really like, took herover the edge in 2018. She
basically was attacking theformer White House adviser
Valerie Jarrett. Right. And shewent on the tweet and said the
tweet said, Muslim Brotherhoodand Planet of the Apes had a
baby. Equals Valerie Jarrett.

(42:46):
Now Roseanne claims. She did notknow that the woman she was
attacking was black. She did notknow that. And so I feel like
you saying the MuslimBrotherhood. And Planet of the
Apes. Like I feel like you knewshe wasn't white. Those are two
very specific attacks tospecific. You couldn't have
thought she was white. You knewshe was something other than

(43:07):
white? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, youwouldn't call her that if you
thought she was white.

Sage (43:12):
Well, I feel like it was a mixture of that. And I know some
of our listeners might might notlike this, but she was very pro
Trump.

Rick (43:21):
She was very pro Trump.

Sage (43:22):
And at the time, I mean, it was the cool thing to do in
certain circles. But the vastmajority was not pro Trump.

Rick (43:32):
Yeah. But she's one of the weird ones, though, because she
was an avid Obama supporter whenhe ran. Yeah, he's like one of
those ones that flipped afterObama.

Sage (43:42):
Yeah, because if you remember correctly, Tim Allen
went through a similar thing.
Yes, he was very pro Trump. Andeverybody started not watching
his new show because of that,but he just doubled down.

Rick (43:53):
He doubled down. He's like someone else on this list that
they double down on their proTrump a pro conservative stance,
and it worked in their favor,because the conservatives
actually backed him up.
Roseanne, however, was very muchlike a Bernie Sanders supporter
before Trump and everybody,everybody, every year, fuck you
if you didn't vote for Bernie.

(44:17):
But for Tulsi Gabbard and one ofthe two either would have been
fine. But yeah, she doesn't havethe conservative people on her
back because she is a veryrecent Trump supporter. You
know, whereas Tim Allen was kindof like they've always kind of
been conservative. They're likethe the white dad's that kind
of, you know, Christianconservative, that kind of, you

(44:37):
know, that area. So, I mean, herstuff is awful, but then she
also has the history. I mean,this was in 2009 when she
dressed up as Hitler for thatpicture.

Sage (44:49):
You know how to melons whole career started, right? No,
he, okay. He went to jail forfucking cocaine. I think I do.
And when he was in jail, It waslike, I never come back here and
just started writing.

Genesis (45:05):
his mugshot is hilarious if you've never seen
it used to look at his mug shotfrom back in the day.

Rick (45:11):
I don't I don't want to tarnish his image more because I
actually liked him Allah.

Sage (45:19):
He's a saint. He's Santa Claus, you know? Yeah, exactly.
Oh, really kill

Rick (45:23):
that image. So, Jen, it sounds like you're more of a fan
of roseanne. Does this kill theshow for you?

Genesis (45:29):
No, it doesn't. Yeah, no, I, I mean, I think it's easy
to just sort of defend her withsaying a she's a convenient
that's what comedians do. Right.
That's bold defender. Cuz I seethe way you're, you're about to
make some connections. But Imean, when even with the Hillary

(45:51):
thing, I mean, how many stand upset we've seen on Comedy Central
like roasts where you know, allthey do is make a Hitler and do
jokes. And that gets

Sage (46:01):
fair. That's fair, in the context of what it's what
they're doing. Like, if it's astand up or something like that,
that's fine. But she's sayinglike, Hey, these are my views.
This person is this this in thismix together? That's very
deliberate. That's not really ajoke. That's, that's you
attacking somebody.

Genesis (46:22):
She is attacking. Yes.
And trying to be funny, which itclearly wasn't. But she was
playing the game. She wasplaying the Twitter game, she
had to understand that that shitthat she's going to put out
there like that is going to haverepercussions. And it looks like
it did you know, we got her new,the new show the Conners. You
know, they kicked her right offof that, which I'm kind of glad
that they didn't cancel itoutright because it's not fair

(46:45):
to the other actors. Right,right. So I'm glad that they
kept it going. And I mean, goingback to Kevin Spacey, I don't
I've never seen House of Cards.
So I don't know how importanthis role was.

Sage (46:58):
He was the first

Rick (47:00):
one was incredible.

Genesis (47:02):
So there's no way they could have finished.

Sage (47:06):
They finished it with them, but okay, they just
finished the rest of that seasonand caught a day.

Rick (47:12):
They just finished the show because I think they were
planning on ending the showafter we

Sage (47:17):
had another season and then we're gonna end it.

Rick (47:20):
But then you know, with Roseanne real quick before we
move on to the next one, I thinka big part of also why she was
on her way out was you know,she's a big conspiracy. There's
too. Yeah, she was heavy intolike Seth Rich and pizza gate
and spy gate and Q anon and allthat shit.

Genesis (47:36):
She's a rich woman.

Rick (47:40):
I agree on all that except Seth. Rich. That's battleship.

Genesis (47:44):
You don't know what that is?

Sage (47:46):
About? Roseanne? Okay.
Why? I wasn't super surprised.
But what she said. Do you knowwho she was married to?

Rick (47:54):
Yes. Tom Marnell does anything. Are you talking about
someone else? Yeah, Tom.

Sage (47:58):
I wouldn't when she got married to Dennis Quaid. To know
Randy Quaid.

Genesis (48:02):
I don't think he was ever married to Randy. I'd known
him well. The fucker was great.
He was married. I don't think hewas married to a celebrity.

Rick (48:12):
So are you saying Randy Quaid was a lot like his
independence day care?

Genesis (48:16):
Yeah, he kinda was.
Like, fucking fled the country.

Sage (48:21):
Maybe? I thought she was married to Randy quaity. Maybe?
Apparently, I'm wrong.

Genesis (48:26):
Yes. I think she deserves to get D platformed.
You know, because the platformdoesn't have any space for that
kind of stuff. So that's on herright? Because I don't think
it's enough for me to not watchher show. Or like, you know,
Braun Roseanne at night to go tosleep to or something to

Sage (48:44):
her show me trashes enough not to watch it.

Genesis (48:47):
Yeah, right. Okay,

Rick (48:49):
so you were ready. But this next person though, I don't
think he ever had a conversationwith his victims. I think he
just went straight to that'sdisrespectful and I'm

Sage (49:00):
sorry if you're gonna if you're gonna say Bill Cosby. I
feel like we know all. Well,Bill Cosby on your list. He
should not be brought up. Why?
Because us, as well as ourlisteners have heard this enough
to wear this. Do we really haveanything you have to say about
it

Rick (49:17):
at this point? No, no.
Yeah, him. He's, he was on thelist. But yeah, this
conversation has been done todeath. So I took him off the
list, because I don't thinkthere's any Yeah, no, he's off
the list. This person though. Ithink you all both liked him at
one point. Danny Masterson ak

Sage (49:38):
70 show that hurt my soul so much. Yeah.

Rick (49:42):
For those who aren't aware, he is being charged. He's
about to go to court if he's notthere already. For allegedly
raping three women between 2001and 2003. Yes, three separate
women all Between the ages of 23and 28. I mean, it's not even

(50:03):
like, these aren't even storiesof just like groping. Oh, he
touched me inappropriately,right? These are all all three
are straight up, right? Like shehe forcibly? Yeah, attack the
first of all, you can't defendit, right? Of course you're
supposed to say allegedlybecause you know, there's you
know, we don't know for sure itcould be a million different

(50:26):
scenarios for this the way thisplays out. But I've usually kind
of always been on the side of ifmore than one person is saying
something happening, I thinkit's, you know, especially if
all three don't have anything todo with each other, like if
they're not connected in any

Genesis (50:42):
way that would normally agree with you, but I think you
have to put on a different lenswith celebrities.

Rick (50:46):
True. That's true, because they go to all different kinds
of parties. Different people.
Yeah, that's a very good point.
But with this particular one, Imean, it I don't know it just
because of, I'm trying to figureout how to put like, I don't
know if it's because of themusing the word rape. And like,
every article about him. Yeah,at some point, it kind of taint

(51:10):
your mind a little bit whereit's like, you just immediately
assume he's guilty. Sure, atleast for me. I do. It's

Genesis (51:17):
because like, you're gonna go through a lot if that's
the claims you're making, youknow, especially if you're doing
it for anything other than thetruth of the situation. Yeah, so
it carries a heavy, heavy, heavything because of how horrible
the act is.

Sage (51:36):
I mean, Danny Masterson that hurt me a lot, because so
many shows on my favoritefucking shows. Yeah. So when
that came, because then theykicked them off that show.

Genesis (51:47):
ranch near

Rick (51:48):
the ranch. Oh, yeah, that was pretty.

Genesis (51:52):
I was digging it to it.
It was the one that was watchingthat. And that's when it all
came out. I was like, fuck,

Sage (51:59):
that came out. But then I started thinking about it.
Shouldn't Ashton Kutcher also beon this list? What do you mean?
What did he do? Because he wasfucking around with Millia when
they were filming, and Millialied about her age, everybody.
She was actually only like, 1415when they were filming the show.

Genesis (52:19):
But they're married.

Sage (52:20):
Me now they are.

Genesis (52:24):
I mean, sure. I guess they broke the law. But if they
were new, she didn't file anycharges. No answer. Good.

Sage (52:32):
I mean, dude, it was that that hurt. Because, you

Genesis (52:36):
know, the guy said changes things when there's
consent. I think that's the keything,

Sage (52:42):
but because you know, you know who his brother is, right?

Genesis (52:45):
Danny Masterson? Yeah.
Who?

Sage (52:49):
He's the he's the older brother from Malcolm in the
Middle.

Genesis (52:52):
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Andthe chick from The Walking Dead.
That's a sister. Girl, Tara.
Tara. Yeah. A lot of MASTERSON.
So um, aren't Kelly MJ and BillCosby are probably all lumped
into the nobody gives a fuck.

Sage (53:19):
I've never really liked Cosby Show, so I don't really
care. Wow,

Genesis (53:21):
that's kind of blasphemous.

Rick (53:23):
Yeah, that he's, I mean, he's right though. I didn't I
did not include our Kelly. OrBill Cosby. I mean, our Kelly
was on the list at first, butthen I took him off.

Sage (53:31):
See our Kelly. Whether he was included or not, I don't
care. Because if you're fromChicago, like we are like we
already are. We all we all knewy'all just didn't want listen.
Yeah.

Genesis (53:46):
There was mumblings amongst the people in

Rick (53:49):
my high school where he was like, what, five miles from
where he lives. All the timeabout that? Oh,

Sage (53:59):
knew y'all didn't want to listen. So I'm like, so when
people like oh, how can youstill listen are killing with
fucking headphones?

Rick (54:04):
What I love one of my, one of my exes, she's a ex
photographer of his. And I usedto ask her all the time, like,
Yo, like, I need some stone,like, you know, have you seen
anything? And she was like,she's met all the girls that are
accusing him. They've all whather side of it was they none of

(54:25):
them were there against theirown freewill. You know, she was
like

Sage (54:31):
to be continued I believe to do back when I was big into
music, like really trying to gobig into music. I spent a lot of
time that arcotel Some part forus gang. And you've met Yeah.
Oh, no, me and him hate eachother.

Rick (54:51):
Man. He touched you know, he

Sage (54:54):
tried to steal like three of my songs and I wouldn't go
because Moses song If you didn'tknow are stolen. What happened?
I've heard that too. Whathappens is people send him
fucking where they used to sendhim fucking demos, tapes or
whatever. It's like, oh yeah,there's my song, but they didn't
fucking copyright it or at leastdo the poor man's fucking

(55:15):
copyright where you mail it toyourself and you don't open it.
He would then turn around andsay that's his fucking song. And
they have no proof that it'stheir song.

Rick (55:26):
Yeah, I've heard that before, but he's stolen quite a
lot of songs. Yeah, he's,

Genesis (55:30):
he's not only just a gross piece of shit, he's also
just no general position.

Sage (55:35):
We were we were all at the fucking rec one day. We're
playing ball. Artillery comesin. He's like, he gets on the
court. His team gets fuckingsmoked. He's like alright, he
picks the four best player fromthe other team because I who got
next I'm like no, that's not howthis works. You have to you have
to court

Genesis (55:53):
dude. He's got like three white people to like pick
them up to dunk

Sage (55:56):
like I don't care who you are you lost Get the fuck off.
So okay,

Genesis (56:02):
yeah, you still jam to his shit even with the personal
Oh

Sage (56:05):
yeah, I don't like him as a person at all. I will say I've
been saying that for years. Ihate him as a person. But that
music though.

Rick (56:12):
That music do go hard though.

Genesis (56:14):
What's different between Kevin Spacey and him
because you'd look at KevinSpacey his work a little
differently because of hisalley.

Sage (56:21):
Which is why this is why it's a tough spot when me and
Kevin Spacey because I love thenegotiator and I did say I just
watched it a couple of monthsago

Genesis (56:32):
but you felt some kind of way and watching but
listening to our Kelly Music Itdoesn't not affect me at all
because it doesn't cross yourmind like the dude I'm listening
to his gross

Sage (56:45):
it does but it also crossed my mind like he probably
didn't write this so I'm likeokay

Genesis (56:50):
like he finds like the excuses to get away.

Rick (56:56):
I get it though right because I mean although with our
Kelly is a little differentthough, man because like AJ
number that number andconsidering right Alia what was
it? What was she 1514 and someshit like that. He's

Sage (57:11):
literally been telling us that jump

Genesis (57:15):
resonated very well.
Yeah, well, Rick, I know yousaid like in the last episode we
did that you can separate theart from the artist and our
Kelly seems to fall into a grayarea with you at least what
certain songs are ones that areblatant. Like I can?

Rick (57:32):
Yeah, but you know what, for me, it's easy to avoid our
Kelly music. So I haven't reallyhad to think about it too much.
You know, as far as

Sage (57:42):
just somebody played at Chocolate Factory.

Rick (57:45):
There. His music does go really hard. Yeah,

Genesis (57:51):
he peepee poo poo.

Rick (57:53):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, but he's his music directly reflects
his behavior. But it's hard toknow he's right.

Sage (58:04):
You know how blatantly he was telling people for the for
the longest time. His nicknamewas the pied piper.

Rick (58:12):
Yeah. I remember the first time I found out what the Pied
Piper was like all this nigga istell he'd been out in the open
with it and just nobody gives afuck. What was his sentence? I
think he got 30 years. Yeah,he's gonna be 20 years. 25
years.

Genesis (58:28):
He's not young either.
So he's gonna be what, sevenyears probably.

Sage (58:33):
Fucking life

Rick (58:36):
he can't read either. Like his reading is yeah, he came

Sage (58:40):
up with that whole song that like my minute song where
he was like, explainingeverything where he's broke
because he can't read he gotfucked over on AWS deals.

Genesis (58:51):
Like so fucking weirdo.
And it was a huge drop out ofschool. And then he told you to
fucking do all that shit.

Rick (58:59):
It is important to note that he got 30 years prison I
think for his New York case orhe has a new case coming

Genesis (59:11):
oh so he's probably done life he'd

Rick (59:14):
put him on suicide watch and everything

Genesis (59:19):
was there anything like it this is all just on him. I
imagine like somebody like ourKelly having a group of people
like to have all that go eitherunnoticed are just being done
solo seems kind of surprising tome. Like there was nobody else
involved with any of this shit.

Sage (59:36):
There were probably people there were complacent. Oh, yeah,

Rick (59:40):
he Yeah, he definitely had people that helped him get away
with this kind of behavior. Butlike,

Sage (59:45):
what, what am I? Yeah, when you're art Kelly, somebody
who at the height of his careercould literally have whoever the
fuck he wanted. You're lookingat Babbage, Babbage Babbage. Let
me get that little girl. I wantwhy why

Genesis (01:00:03):
will the quote a wise philosopher sage, you know, at
least he liked what he liked.
That's funny.

Sage (01:00:10):
I mean, but he did stay consistent, you know?

Rick (01:00:15):
Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna bring something up here, it
pertains to our Kelly, I needyou to follow me here, okay?
Because every time I broughtthis up, people always try to
say, Oh, well, it's justexcusing what he did. And that's
not the case. So if you aren'taware, specifically your
Genesis, you might not know. Butit is known that he was abused

(01:00:37):
as a child, right? He was abuseda lot as a child him and I think
his brother was as well. And I'mnot saying that as an excuse for
why he did what he did. However,I think there's a direct
correlation, or obviously,there's a direct correlation
between abuse as a child to thenabusing as an adult, right.

Sage (01:00:56):
I think as somebody whose parents Whoa, not parents, but
mother and sister deliberatelytried to kill me on numerous
different occasions. Well, I'm

Rick (01:01:10):
not talking about that abuse.

Sage (01:01:11):
I've never I've never once been in my life like you know
what, let me fuck a little kid.
Know

Genesis (01:01:15):
what the year other actions though? You like happy?
You want to Thanh Oh, snap?
Think there's correlations toother things? Yeah. People just
happened to turn into pedophilesmolesters and rapists, right,

Rick (01:01:31):
people? Yeah. And I mean, there's like a real direct
correlation between the two,like people who often abused
people were once abusedthemselves. There's a clear line
between the two. And so what I'msaying is, I think it's I'm not
trying to excuse his behavior,but I'm saying if we can figure
out a way to stop the abuse fromhappening to children, I think
we can stop someone else frombecoming the next or Kelly,

Genesis (01:01:53):
potentially, but you also have people that have never
been abused and still turned outthat way. Yeah.

Sage (01:01:58):
I mean, if you look at it in history, the best artists
music, fucking painting, acting,whatever, they all come from
troubled

Rick (01:02:08):
paths. Yeah. Same thing with the comedian. I mean,
virtually all the comedians comefrom a really fucked up
childhood. But they you know,they overcome it, but they're
all twisted people. Like they'reall really broken. In the sense
of like, if you give them theopportunity to kill they
probably will take

Genesis (01:02:28):
some self destruct design destruct destroy other
people's lives, you know, andthat's, I mean, that's just the
nature of humanity. We have allthese different variables and
factors that create us and buildus to who we become that the
some positives that come out ofthat is arts and culture and

(01:02:49):
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But then there's gonna be theshitty things that come out of
this fucking yin yang.

Sage (01:02:54):
All I'm saying is, she saw this coming. She stayed. I saw
this coming. I move. When doespersonal catalyst come into
effect? You know,

Genesis (01:03:06):
I don't think that's the argument you should hold in
our Kelly's situation.

Sage (01:03:12):
nothing but truth.

Genesis (01:03:15):
That was that where you're pulling it from?

Rick (01:03:17):
Of course. So next on the list after my decided to think
this one might be a sore spotfor you, Jen. Although you don't
think you really care forsports? Michael Vick?

Genesis (01:03:36):
Different approach.

Sage (01:03:37):
I felt that he got a terrible fucking deal. Don't get
me wrong. Yeah. Yeah, what hedid was fun.

Genesis (01:03:44):
Okay, let's talk about what he did first. I mostly just
remember the jokes about it. Solike the specifics of the case.
I don't know if I'm actuallythat too familiar with it. I
know. It involves dogs. Rightand killing dogs. Oh, yeah.

Rick (01:03:57):
He was basically running a dogfighting ring out of his
property in Virginia. Right.
Dozens of pitbulls all kinds ofheinous shit going on with the
dogs put killing dogs and sureit was all

Sage (01:04:12):
the shit and the majority of it wasn't really. him. It was
his Yeah, it was just peoplethat he used to hang out with
and still trying to stay in thatsame mentality not realizing
that he is that he had got outof that.

Genesis (01:04:27):
Wait, what do you say like he didn't actually do
anything?

Sage (01:04:29):
No, he provided the space he provided I think but he was
the big name that was attached.

Rick (01:04:34):
Right? If I'm not mistaken. I'm looking at the
article here and they don't gointo like great detail, but it's
also the History Channel on alot of fuck this is the website
telling me about the case butbasically, it was a dogfighting
ring. There it says there wereabout 50 dogs that were part of
this fighting ring is three wasit co conspirators where they

(01:04:56):
were running the dogfightingring but like sage said it was
it was Vic's face it was Vic'syou know a lot of him that was
behind it. Didn't they

Sage (01:05:03):
find like 16 Dog carcasses or something on his property?

Rick (01:05:08):
Yeah. Buried. Yeah. Yeah.
Like kill. Yeah, Jesus. Well,and the thing is, though, the
reason why Vic was in a lot oftrouble too was he actually
admitted to killing a lot of thedogs himself. Yeah.

Genesis (01:05:20):
Usually what happens, you know,

Sage (01:05:22):
but you know, but my thing my thing with Vic is because one
he's always been one of if notmy favorite fucking football
player.

Genesis (01:05:30):
He is a quarterback.
Right? Yeah.

Sage (01:05:33):
But he went to jail. Did his time came out. And actually
better yourself. Okay, he talkedhe talked to he had to do did
what he had to do. And now he'sa fucking ambassador for PETA.
Really? Yeah. And don't get mewrong. Peter is a terrible
fucking organization. Got theproblems, but for the most part

(01:05:56):
for what they do. I mean, theytry to do things right. And he's
an ambassador that but youCaucasian people, like no fuck,
Vic. No, I'm I do okay. Peoplecan change. Yeah, he fucked up
and now he's devoting his life.
Yeah, to making up for that. Andyou still won't give him a pass?
Like not not even a pass. Butsimilarly, I You fucked up.

(01:06:18):
Yeah, no, you fuck up. Who's not

Genesis (01:06:23):
giving him a pass? Oh,

Sage (01:06:24):
so many people hate him.

Rick (01:06:27):
In 2019, post the NFL let him be one of the captains in
the 2020 Pro Bowl. And there washuge, you know, outrage about
it. Because of him trying to dothat. But we're talking this man
went to jail. I think it was2007. And he served two years in
prison for two years. And thenhe he is probably one of the not

(01:06:49):
the greatest because our RobertDowney Jr. is probably the
greatest comeback story. ButMichael Vick went to jail for
two years, got clean came backand he they actually let him
back in the NFL. He actuallyplayed a couple more seasons.
Oh, really with the Eagles? Andthen I think he went to this
Steeler that 1.2. But okay, heYeah, he came back to society.

(01:07:11):
But people still hold that Iremember, I have a friend of
mine from like old Halo twodays, where we were all super
close me this guy and his wifeall super close. And when I said
Michael Vick is like one of myfavorite football players of all
time, and she's like, well, howcan you like him? Like, well, I

(01:07:31):
mean, he paid his debt tosociety. He's done charities,
he's done all this stuff to makethose things right. When do we
give him a path like or not evennot even a path but when we
forgive him, right? And she wasjust like, No, he's awful piece
of shit and all that.

Sage (01:07:46):
And it'd be those same other funders, who are diehard
Ben Roethlisberger fans. Thisman has been accused of raping
women in bathroom stalls threetimes, the first time maybe that
shit didn't happen. Second time.
Third time you underwritingpeople.

Genesis (01:08:07):
I can't speak for everybody that's still like
posing any kind of hate towardsVic. But like I didn't know, the
redemption story that he hadthere. And I bet a lot of people
don't either.

Rick (01:08:18):
But they don't wanna listen. No, you try to explain
that to them. And they don'tthey don't

Genesis (01:08:22):
care. Absolutely, absolutely. I can totally see
that, you know, thing. But Ithink, at least for me, it's not
that I'm the All Knowing of allthe dealings of like
celebrities. But the fact that Ididn't know that, to me makes it
feel more genuine, of like, ofthese actions that you guys are
telling me about him doing it.
Because the fact that it's notbeing super publicized, it feels

(01:08:45):
more like a genuine act that hedid you know what I mean? He

Sage (01:08:52):
honestly is a good dude.
He recognized he made a mistake.
That's where people have ithappens. He's human. He owned up
to it took complete fuckingcontrol of his life. Alright,
look, he did his time. And whilehe was doing his time, he talked
to people got counseling, andthen talk to PETA. And I was

(01:09:13):
like, and became really goodwith him to where, you know, I
want to advocate to this, tomake sure nobody else makes the
same mistakes I made.

Genesis (01:09:21):
I appreciate somebody going to that level of extent to
rectify, you know, pastmistakes, I think, problem with
a lot of things that we see. Imean, it's hard to I don't think
there's any coming back fromsome of these other actors or,
you know, celebrities that wetalked, you know, there might
there's no redemption path forsome of them. And I think
that's, that will be

Sage (01:09:41):
the crazy part is if you look in the eyes of society, and
when I'm actually society, I'mspeaking more about caucus
people. Now, right. It's easierto come back from killing a
person than herding a dog. Idon't know

Genesis (01:09:57):
if I would just put that only on the caucus. Nah.

Rick (01:10:02):
They made they made a whole show saying don't fuck
with cats. I mean, I grant No,they're not dogs but like the
all the people that theyinterviewed on that show were
not anything else other than thecaucus mountains people.

Genesis (01:10:15):
I mean, you seen that documentary, right?

Sage (01:10:17):
Yeah, the document that I started documenting
documentaries fire.

Rick (01:10:21):
Yeah, it was really good.

Sage (01:10:25):
But people from from that background are more willing to
forgive somebody who killedseveral people, as opposed to
somebody who killed severaldogs.

Rick (01:10:38):
We have people that are out there that think John Wayne
Gacy is one of the the hottestmen alive. But Mike but like and
we have people that thinkJeffrey Dahmer is like, you
know,

Sage (01:10:52):
Casey, well, this movie just came out with two years
ago, Ted Bundy.

Rick (01:10:56):
Yes, yes. And

Sage (01:10:59):
yeah, Zac Efron portrayed that Ted Bundy that guy friends
these either good looking dude.
So yeah, women were going crazyabout it. But they were just
portraying how it actually waswhen it happened. When it
happened. He was in the news forkilling several women. And women
are going crazy like oh, no, Istill love him. I treat him like

(01:11:20):
he's a serial killer for killingwomen.

Rick (01:11:25):
Yeah, who's the CO leader that convinced people to kill in
the handsome Yes, him Yeah. himdidn't didn't get married while
in prison or something likethat.

Genesis (01:11:36):
People loved him after the fact.

Rick (01:11:39):
So you're telling me that those sacks of shit can be loved
and forgiven and all that butMichael Vick can't?

Genesis (01:11:45):
I'm not telling you that I'm just saying that it's
not only white people, and

Rick (01:11:54):
I bet you if I go on Facebook right now do a poll.
Like do you forgive my Vic? Howmany? I bet you a lot of money.
All the noes are we're going tobe white women, because

Sage (01:12:05):
black people are like dogs. But if we have to pick
between a dog and the human,we're picking the human every
time

Rick (01:12:10):
right? We don't value a dog's life. Although I will tell
you my mom's dog peanut. I likepeanut a lot more than some
people.

Sage (01:12:19):
You like peanut a lot more. But let's say there was a
volcano or some shit. Right? Andyou have to save peanut or the
girl you're dating. You'resaving the girl you're dating.
Well, of

Rick (01:12:31):
course the girl didn't but I mean, if I had to choose
between peanut or a randomstranger I would I just value
human life a little more. Notsaying dogs don't deserve to

Sage (01:12:41):
lose it but a dog is I love dogs. Honestly. If we were
if reincarnation exists, I wantto come back as a dog. I really
do. Because your

Genesis (01:12:52):
expectations and you're already a bitch.

Sage (01:12:56):
Okay, whatever money as a dog your expectations are so
fucking low. Like I ain't gottaworry about shit. I just get to
sleep. Barca some shift fromhere to there and chill. Right?

Rick (01:13:09):
No, like people taking care of you. Like that's not
that's not your problem. Like,did I get my food? Like that's
all that's all that matter?

Genesis (01:13:15):
I mean, cats have a little bit better chance. I
would rather come back I don'tcare about shit. Yeah, they
really? Yeah, they I mean, theydon't care about you. Okay, so
with Michael Vick. Well, so nowlet me ask you this though.
Because like in staying with thetopic as far as the separation

(01:13:38):
like at the time before theredemption though. What were
your feelings? And like, was hestill your favorite athlete
during the

Rick (01:13:47):
entrepot I brought

Sage (01:13:49):
the jerseys. I've never stopped rocking.

Rick (01:13:51):
I still I still hate.
Yeah, because the man

Sage (01:13:56):
runs for 440 You know how impressive that is?

Rick (01:14:01):
Jen, you have to understand. Mike Vick literally
changed the game of football.
Since he joined the league, Imean, this man he is the reason
why there's a phrase an out ofpocket passer or out of pocket.
The first real hybrid? Yeah, hewas the first one that could
really throw and one at thesame. Oh, anyone accurate

Sage (01:14:24):
on the run? Ain't nobody open. Cool. I'm about to break
everybody's ankles.

Genesis (01:14:30):
did all this come out mid season though or was his
career like learning wasretired?

Sage (01:14:35):
His career was already it was like, season four or five.
He was already deep in theseason

Rick (01:14:39):
because he he joined in 2000. Yeah, he joined in 2001.
And he was arrested in 2007. Hewas so he was six years in Italy
when this happened,

Genesis (01:14:51):
which is close to the end of athlete right in the
Football League.

Rick (01:14:55):
That's only six years he played until 27 2015. Sorry.
Okay. cuz I mean more like infootball like, okay, Tom Brady
is 45 right now. Right. And he'sabout to play another season.
Yeah, but

Genesis (01:15:09):
he's different than most

Sage (01:15:11):
football. But here's the crazy part. This crazy part,
actually a little bit beforethat started. Ray Lewis legit
kill to do. Everybody knowsnobody cares

Genesis (01:15:25):
wait was he convicted?

Sage (01:15:27):
No no his bodyguard got convicted. But every story that
comes out about it. Everybodyknows it was him

Genesis (01:15:36):
you know I'm sorry he's gonna he also

Sage (01:15:37):
beat up Chile from fucking TLC. Nobody. Nobody gave a fuck.
Two years after they went tojail. This motherfucker got
inducted into the NFL Hall ofFame.

Genesis (01:15:51):
Ray Lewis did Yes. Oh, yeah. Like why the favoritism?

Sage (01:15:56):
That's what I'm saying when you piss off white women.
Like he didn't kill Ray Lewisdidn't kill dogs. He he killed a
dude. And he beat up a blackchick. They're like

Genesis (01:16:12):
asking the question,

Sage (01:16:13):
had he had he did anything to any type of pet or any type
of white caucus? He's asked. ButI can't even say caucus because
Ben Roethlisberger. Yeah, cerealfucking raper still fucking out
here. He's been in the Hall ofFame. He's a fucking treasure.

Rick (01:16:33):
Yeah, and I think all of his victims were white. Yeah, I
might do. Some people. I won'tspecify who but some people
value animals lives over. Right.
But I understand where they'recoming from. Because in a sense,
animals are far more defensive.

Sage (01:16:51):
I feel like I feel it's more of American thing because
yeah, dogs or pets here, butthey're fucking food other
places.

Genesis (01:16:59):
Yeah, but in those other places. Have you seen the
way they treat birds? We don'ttreat birds bad here. Well, I'm
just saying it's not like theyhave just an ultimate disrespect
for all animals. It's just thatparticular animal.

Sage (01:17:12):
I've only treated a bird both once in my life. And that
wouldn't I gotta hear that. Andthat wasn't me. That was my.
That was my cousin.

Genesis (01:17:23):
Hmm. It sounds like what Ray Lewis said about his
bodyguard. No, no, no, I killeda person. But it wasn't my body.

Sage (01:17:31):
No. Okay, so my cousin is a certified certifiable
psychopath. Okay, he's friendsin the family. He's been to
jail, maybe six or seven times?
Jesus. We were I think we werelike, 10 at the time. Dude, I
was a kid who I used to chokeout fucking adults. Because I
was I was wiring so I had a movethat I would do like whenever

(01:17:55):
anybody got them on Earth. Wait,take turns they back. I mean,
granted, Yeah, cuz I knew theyhad muscle on me. I went back to
win a fight. So wait, did heturn it back? So he turned
around, I'm jumping on the backand I put him in a fucking pool.
And that's it and choke thembitches out.

Rick (01:18:14):
Well, speaking of people who choke people out for a
living Hulk Hogan, I don't knowif either of you are wrestling
fans or just to be Yeah,

Sage (01:18:23):
actually, a good majority of my childhood wrestling fans,
I mean, wrestling superheroes orwhatever you want to call them.
Turned out to be terriblefucking people.

Rick (01:18:36):
That might be more indicative of you than then the
wrestlers themselves.

Sage (01:18:42):
Hulk Hogan, one of my all time favorite wrestlers.

Genesis (01:18:45):
Yeah, he was definitely an icon for me as a kid. I mean,
I watched all his movies, my dadhuge with Hulk Hogan. And so
like he was definitely a hugepart of my childhood. Yeah.

Rick (01:18:58):
Stone Cold man. Yeah,

Sage (01:19:00):
but that later was later Do

Rick (01:19:03):
you guys remember I'm younger than you two so
obviously I went

Sage (01:19:07):
a year vich like

Rick (01:19:12):
aren't you to like 40 No no, but when I when I got into
wrestling I mean it was it theAttitude Era so you know what I
mean? Stone Cold, the rock,triple age and the

Sage (01:19:31):
HOW DID YOU degenerate?
Had you not recovered hopebefore that though?

Rick (01:19:35):
Well, because I didn't. I didn't get into wrestling until
I saw a stone cold. Or no as thegame WrestleMania 2002 With

Sage (01:19:42):
all the movies, the hope did no holds barred. No suburban
Commando.

Genesis (01:19:49):
Turning nanny. Yeah, Mr. Manning.

Rick (01:19:51):
I don't I'm not familiar with anything. You're saying.

Sage (01:19:55):
How Hogan was a fucking icon. Yeah,

Rick (01:19:59):
I think the first Ever movie that I saw whether whether
wrestler was a star was probablythe rundown with the rock. And
Shawn when Scott

Genesis (01:20:08):
Hulk Hogan do that was bad I don't think I

Sage (01:20:12):
remember he super racist all

Genesis (01:20:16):
he racism

Rick (01:20:20):
you seen the meme where in the group chat I've posted it
several times with Chuck whereit's it's the Hulk Hogan right
and and I and spray paint alsowas trailer

Genesis (01:20:35):
Jesus What did he do that was racist

Rick (01:20:38):
I had something to do with his daughter right if I'm not
mistaken yeah and she was likedating a black dude I think and
basically he just went on thislong tirade obviously I can't
say exactly what he said but hebasically was dropping heart
Ares and who Yeah, saying like ff and words and he says, I mean,

(01:20:58):
I don't have double standards. Imean, I am a racist to a point F
and words. But then when itcomes to nice people and shit,
whatever. I guess we're allracist. effing and words, like
he went aggressive. You know?

Genesis (01:21:16):
Did he say this?

Sage (01:21:18):
Was a recorded video call.
Phone call.

Genesis (01:21:22):
He got caught. Yeah.
Okay. Well,

Rick (01:21:25):
I actually know this article says that the whole
scandal actually stems from asex tape. Where

Sage (01:21:31):
Yeah, yeah, it came because Brooke Hogan had a sexy
when he was in Hong Kong andalso had a sex tape. But the
Brooke Hogan thing came fromwhen he saw her succeed. And
Guinea car Hell, he caught herpissed. And then that's when the
sex tape she was with a blackguy. Yeah, that's when.

Genesis (01:21:51):
Gotcha.

Rick (01:21:52):
And you know, he actually sued the company that released
that video. That said he suedthem for like 100 million in
one. Hogan did yeah. Yeah, he

Genesis (01:22:06):
I guess I mean, I mean, that's kind of a separate thing.
But

Rick (01:22:10):
yeah, he sued Gawker Media.

Sage (01:22:13):
Yeah, it legit sucked his I was a fan of him. He turned
out to be a racist. Yeah.
Ultimate worry. He was a fuckingwoman beater fan of Randy
Savage. Also racist as

Genesis (01:22:33):
well you're ruining all my

Rick (01:22:35):
my wrestlers. And you know what's crazy all the people he's
saying that it raises if youwould have made me bet money 20
years ago I was a stone cold iseasily the biggest racist. He's
like one of the

Genesis (01:22:49):
guys. That's your stereotype playing into that.

Rick (01:22:53):
He definitely bro come on.
Looks like looks like a Klanmember.

Genesis (01:23:02):
So as far as Hulk Hogan know what kind of I imagine he's
done after that when

Sage (01:23:07):
the backlash when the backlash happened? He wasn't
really, you know, prevalent.
Sure, sure. So, I mean, it wasnews, but it wasn't big news.
Right?

Genesis (01:23:20):
It wasn't like that.
Me. Yeah, I guess because at theend of his career, so like, or
like, he didn't have much of acareer, I think, well, I don't
know if this was after a realityshow.

Sage (01:23:29):
Oh, this was this was this is way after everything. Okay,

Genesis (01:23:33):
so he just basically broke hearts.

Rick (01:23:35):
Yeah, this was back in 2011 2012. Like, 20 Yeah. 2010
to 2012. Somewhere in that area.
Where everything and you know,he had, he had kind of had like
a resurgence in wrestling. Butthen I think they flat out
banned him in the web.

Sage (01:23:54):
And I'd like to do that hurt that hurt a lot when I
Yeah.

Rick (01:23:57):
I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah.
Cuz he. I mean, he's veryimportant to this sport. I feel
like you can't really talk aboutwrestling without him being a
part of the conversation as faras like transcending characters
in the show, but he definitelytarnish his name. You know?
Yeah,

Genesis (01:24:16):
I think that I mean, from my perspective, yeah, I
mean, I'll definitely thinkabout him differently. That's
for sure. I mean, it's not likehe's part of anything or
anything that I would reallywatch. Now it

Sage (01:24:27):
is i i would i would go back and watch suburban
Commando.

Genesis (01:24:34):
Oh, I don't know if that holds up. No,

Sage (01:24:36):
no, no, I know that acting is going to be terrible. But I
would still go back and watch itjust awful. Yeah, the style just
alone.

Rick (01:24:46):
To move along, because I know we're getting kind of long
here. Last two. Now this one Ithink Mel Gibson
Mel Hardcore rant. He's exgirlfriend to let people know
that aren't aware. Basically, hegot into a conversation with his

(01:25:07):
ex and just was gone on our rantsaying

Sage (01:25:12):
before that though, because he was already getting
slapped for making the Passionof the Christ because he's anti
semitic.

Rick (01:25:20):
Well, right. Well, so that's, yeah, that yeah, that's
next. But that's

Sage (01:25:25):
no that was before that wasn't after that we'll
definitely before

Rick (01:25:29):
His Passion of the Christ

Sage (01:25:32):
came out in 2007. Right.
He

Rick (01:25:35):
was in his anti semitic stuff was 2006.

Genesis (01:25:39):
Yeah, it's kind of like fucking shit with the shape of
yours. This is when he wasagainst

Sage (01:25:45):
the ship with that girl was like 2010.

Rick (01:25:48):
Yes, yeah, you're right.
So yeah, the the anti semitic.
Well, hold on. Okay, so Allright, well, we'll start with
the thing. He's, he's had firstwrite the anti semitic shit. So
in 2006, he basically just wassaying, you know, the age old
things of Jews won the world,and they're responsible for all
the world and shit like that.
Then this was all when he wasstopped for the UI. So then, in

(01:26:11):
2010, he gets into an argumentwith the mother of his child.
And basically it was rant abouthers and see, I actually have
the actual quote, obviously, Ican't say

Sage (01:26:31):
like a slit and some other shit. Yay. Call

Rick (01:26:33):
her up, pig. And I hope you get raped by a pack of
Edwards. Oh, yeah, I'm going tocome and burn your house down.
But you will blow me first.
Yeah, hardcore shit. Yeah, hewas going hardcore her. And, I
mean, there's all kinds of stuffsaying that there was a custody

(01:26:53):
dispute there was there wereallegations that he abused her
and even knocked on her teeth.
And she basically made therecordings because she was
afraid for her life. So this isall pretty hardcore. And this is
one of those things where it'snot just racism, like it's just
he also is like, reallyaggressive. I mean, this is only

(01:27:14):
10 years ago, or 12 years ago. Imean, and that movie was that
Santa movie he was just in. Andit was two years ago. Yes. It
wasn't like it was a decadelater. This was only eight years
later, where he kind of, and I'mpretty sure he was at some of
them before that, too.

Genesis (01:27:33):
He was director of one of my favorite movies. Hacksaw
Ridge. So

Sage (01:27:38):
I'm bringing that up.
Where you're passing? Yeah,

Rick (01:27:42):
I mean, this is lethal weapon. This is Braveheart.
Braveheart Yan. What the patriotlike this dude is in some of the
best movies ever. And he's thedirector of what was it a
Apocalypto? Well, that's, yeah,it was fucking though. You know,
it was wild. Yeah, I stillhaven't seen Passion of the

(01:28:03):
Christ. And I kind of don't wantto see it. Because I kind of
don't I don't need to see that.

Sage (01:28:08):
Here's, here's the crazy part. I saw passionate Christ in
theaters. And I remember in myhead before I even go before we
went there. I'm like, Dude, whattrailers are you by the show?
before? And the craziest partis, I cannot remember what
trailers they showed before.

Genesis (01:28:27):
There was no train.
That was the only movie thatdidn't have trailers.

Sage (01:28:32):
Trailers, could you possibly show?

Rick (01:28:35):
Yeah, that's one that I mean, I don't want to see that
movie. Because I feel like, Idon't

Sage (01:28:41):
need to see that. No, no, that's a lot. Like if you didn't
look into the what happenedduring the filming of that
movie. There's a lot thathappened that got a lot of
people even more religious thanthey were before. Like the guy
looking like Henry chorizo.
Like, he dislocated both hisshoulders. I think like three

(01:29:03):
different times they'll meanthat like he kept getting fucked
up playing Jesus. And it's

Genesis (01:29:11):
all like superstitious things you do

Sage (01:29:13):
is a whole lot like if you got the time just look at it.
It's crazy. Yeah, yeah,

Rick (01:29:19):
I think I will go down that that rabbit hole because

Genesis (01:29:22):
a crow

Rick (01:29:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's how many people did they are two
people died from that right

Genesis (01:29:33):
now just Brandon randomly. The leakers Mel Gibson
that like I wasn't reallysurprised, like he always had
that sort of just that littletinge of evil in his eye. Like
from when I first seen him inMad Max. I always kind of knew
something was off with thisdude. I mean, he was a great
actor like and I followed hiscareer. You know, any movie that

(01:29:55):
Mel Gibson was in? I was therefor it up until he I can lost
his mind. And I because Ithought the DUI was his. I
thought that was the first. Ormaybe that was just the first
for me when I heard him justlosing his shit.

Sage (01:30:11):
No Do you Do you I was the first.

Genesis (01:30:14):
That was the first Yeah, do I was okay then yeah so
that's yeah then I was I wascurrent in the time then when
that went all went down and likeif this was before I think any
of my celebrity I wouldn't sayheroes but like celebrities that
I appreciated their works likethat was probably one of the

(01:30:35):
first ones that was reallycoming to light about like, wow,
this person is a real piece ofshit. Yeah, cuz

Sage (01:30:42):
Alec Baldwin did something similar when he snapped on his
daughter over the phone.

Rick (01:30:48):
Number Yeah, that one I'm not familiar with. Oh, yeah, he
although he's just constantly inthe news for the wrong reasons.

Sage (01:30:56):
What sucks because Alec Baldwin on 30 rant was amazing.

Genesis (01:31:02):
He's an interesting actor, that's for sure.

Rick (01:31:04):
Yeah, he did. Dude. He's just constantly I mean, he
killed the person on the side ofthat movie. Oh, yeah. Forget
about that. His wife mightpossibly have lied about her
Spanish heritage. She may notactually be Spanish. For kin,
you know, he's got a I think hehas a few allegations of abuse,

(01:31:26):
like sexual abuse. Oh, wow.
Yeah. Yeah. Kinda. Yeah. It'snot really good to be a ball and
right now. At least not thatwell. I'm gonna

Sage (01:31:36):
go around and be fair.
We're gonna be Billy Baldwin.

Rick (01:31:39):
Yeah. All right.

Genesis (01:31:40):
What time does he figure them all out?

Sage (01:31:43):
Billy Baldwin, I believe is the one with Pauly Shore.
That movie can't think of thatmovie.

Genesis (01:31:50):
Oh, wow. What's his only movie?

Sage (01:31:53):
I love bow though.

Genesis (01:31:58):
But did Mel Gibson ever try to redeem himself from the
Oh, no. Statement?

Rick (01:32:04):
Just the old rehab apology. I'm sorry. Okay. He
didn't really go too far in hisWhat is it revival tour. As far
as like,

Sage (01:32:14):
just started coming out with straight to DVD movies.
Like I remember right after ithappened. We're not right after
maybe a year and a half after ithappened. His first movie was
get the green goo.

Genesis (01:32:26):
Oh, yeah, that's right.
He didn't see I don't think muchsuccess until probably Hacksaw
Ridge. Can we not bring up thatone? I have to because like,
that's what I'm using as mycurrent stance on him. Because I
didn't notice at first or likebeforehand that that was his
like, he directed that

Sage (01:32:46):
film. It's such a powerful movie. Such a powerful. Yeah.

Genesis (01:32:50):
So like for him. It's, I think I think differently of
him. For sure. I don't thinkI'll go out of my way to like,
be a fan or call myself a fan ofhis it's just one of those that
man that kind of sucks. Thatsucks that you had to turn out
that way. As an actor.

Sage (01:33:05):
Yes. But he He's proven.
He's as a director, he makessome awesome as fuck movies.

Genesis (01:33:12):
He's got a he's got an interesting vision. Yeah.

Rick (01:33:16):
Granted, he has some of the best movies. Right? But he's
also not someone that I don'treally need to see anything else
from? Yeah, I

Sage (01:33:24):
mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't get a beer I could do.

Genesis (01:33:27):
Right. Get a beer with you.

Rick (01:33:32):
Right, he would rather you go hook up with a pack of you
will go go with. So okay, Ithought about doing one more.
I'm gonna throw an audible dotwo more. But we'll we'll speed
through these two. And these arethe last one. This one will be
kind of quick. Gina Khurana. Idon't know if either of you know

(01:33:53):
who that is.

Sage (01:33:53):
Yeah, she was a UFC fighter turned actor. She was in
the Star Wars TV show. And thenshe came out and said some shit
in the Trump party esque. Thatpainted her in a in a bad light
and they cut her from the show.
I can't remember what sheactually

Rick (01:34:10):
I do. I do have the tweet.
She tweeted a famous photo froma Nazi rally in 1936. Right. And
we did what she tweeted. She shetweeted a famous photo from a
Nazi rally in 1936.

Genesis (01:34:26):
Okay, that's weird.

Rick (01:34:29):
Right? And so the reason why she tweeted this was because
she was basically trying to saythat a conservative today is a
lot like a Jewish person duringthe Holocaust, basically trying
to say that she she wasbasically trying to say that
like you were like if you spokeagainst the crowd, you were

(01:34:53):
considered an outsider orwhatever, right. Her tweet said
Jews were beaten in the street.
It's not by Nazi soldiers, butby their neighbors, even by
their children. Because historyis edited. Most people today
don't realize that to get to thepoint where Nazi soldiers had
easily round up 1000s of Jews,the government first made their
own neighbors hate them simplyfor being Jews. How is that any

(01:35:16):
different from hating someonefor their political views? She's
basically saying like, you know,if you have a different opinion
from everyone else, then they'retrying to make you out to be the
bad guy. They're trying to makeyou as evil as possible. So

Sage (01:35:34):
like I said, it was a Trump shit. Because that's what
Oh, yeah.

Rick (01:35:37):
I mean, it's Republican said for sure. I don't know
Trump. But no, that's when itcame out. Boy, yeah, it was
definitely in 20. This is 2021,early last year. So I mean, it
was it was more of like, youcan't be and I to an extent I
agree with her. Like, now, Idon't know about the comparison.
The Jews thing. I feel like thatwas weird. I wouldn't say that

(01:35:59):
taste. Yeah. When they did that,

Genesis (01:36:01):
to, like, hammer it in with a pitcher as well. Yeah.

Rick (01:36:05):
But to like what she said, I like her, I get it. Because
during that time, you know,being a conservative or a
Republican, wasn't really easyto do on social media platforms,
right? You could you can't justflat out say what you want to
say on those platforms. I wonderwhy? Well, she proved it. Right.
Right. They literally provetheir point, because she got

(01:36:27):
fired from Disney. Right? Shelost everything her agency, let
her go on all that shit. Andshe's also a perfect example of
how, instead of trying to gether fired, people should have
educated her because now thatshe lost her job at Disney, she
now has been picked up as awriter and an actress for the
daily wire. I don't know if youguys know what that is. But the

(01:36:49):
daily wire is Ben Shapiro'sprogram was that

Sage (01:36:52):
falls in line with the whole morality clause that are
in contracts, part of themorality. You're not supposed to
speak out publicly on yourviews.

Rick (01:37:03):
I mean, I get it, when you have that clause that's in
there, I get it. You probablyshould just not tweet at all,
unless it's about the showyou're on. But I also disagree
with that to the I hate the factthat companies can make you do

Sage (01:37:16):
what you mean, make you they didn't have to sign it.
Yeah, but then

Rick (01:37:19):
she might not have gotten the job. If she did well, then
that's her choice. Yeah. But ifyou're Gina Carano, and you're
about to get signed on to theMandalorian. She wasn't your
show, right?

Sage (01:37:28):
He wasn't. I mean, she was a UFC fighter. She had one movie
haywire before that. That wasokay.

Rick (01:37:34):
As that's exactly my point that we're getting offered a
giant roll.

Sage (01:37:38):
Yeah. And then you're gonna take and then she reads
the fucking contract themorality clauses in there. If
she felt that that went againsther fucking morals, then don't
sign it. You can't sign it afterreading it, and then say
something and then get mad thatthey enforce that.

Rick (01:37:59):
I get what you're saying.
Right? Because it was in heragreement. It

Sage (01:38:02):
was a personal choice that she ran.

Genesis (01:38:04):
Well, I think what I was trying to say is though,
that caution exists right?

Sage (01:38:09):
Now that because you're you're telling

Rick (01:38:10):
people that they can't they can't speak their own
opinion on their own,

Sage (01:38:15):
that causes there to protect their movies and their
franchises. Because they want tokeep their franchises and movies
neutral. And by you saying this?
And let's say like, you have Xamount of people who are
diehards for the show, just forher. Now you're making the show
a political thing. It's notsupposed to be that.

Genesis (01:38:38):
Well, like you said, in the case of House of Cards, like
they said the creators got 39million. I mean, we're under the
assumption that was most likelydue to having to cancel it or
proceed without them knowingthat there's going to be a
revenue loss without the main.

Sage (01:38:54):
Yeah, I was, I will be under the assumption that it
will be that he broke themorality clause of the show. And
because of that, they can'tfinish it with him. So guess he
has to fucking pay? I mean,yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's
there for a reason. Yes, it'sthere to cover their ass. But at

(01:39:15):
the same time was there to kindof cover your ass if you read
the contract.

Genesis (01:39:20):
Like, hey, but it's also it's poorly written too,
because I'm sure it's just veryvague. Like, don't express
views. Period.

Sage (01:39:30):
No, no, no, it's not that it's not that because honestly,
every Disney star, like on theTV show, whatever. They all had
some or other classes. Iremember Jessica Alba. She spoke
out about it because she had toset a morality clause when she
was doing Seventh Heaven.
Because you're doing a showabout you know, religion and
stuff. So you can't be out hereportraying sexuality and stuff

(01:39:51):
like Right, right, right. Itdiminishes the show like you're
here for the show. You locked infor the show, we believe You, we
believe that we want you herefor a long time. So this is what
we expect of you.

Rick (01:40:06):
I mean, I get that, but I completely I hate that because I
know I understand that. I'm notsaying I don't understand it. I
think we all get it. It doesn'tmean it's a good idea though.
It's a stupid because it I feellike it's making people be
things that they aren't. Right.
Like it's making, you know, notsaying that you necessary how's

(01:40:27):
it

Sage (01:40:28):
making you be anything?
It's not making you do? It's notmaking you being anything? It's
just saying that, hey, don't Oh,you're a representative. Yeah,
don't express your opinions onsocial media. But you can still
you can still vote the way youwant. You can still protest the
way you want. You can dowhatever the hell you want. So
don't put it on social media.
Because I know because Disney,that's a staple and Disney

(01:40:51):
contracts. I mean, that is thatis a that is 100% of staple in
Disney contracts. The moralityclauses there. Anybody who's
worked is in the talks about itall the fucking time. It is 100%
there.

Genesis (01:41:05):
Now, Rick, let me ask you just in sort of questioning
your defense, what do you thinka company can do? Where their
actor actors are assets, andtheir actions can lead to direct
loss and revenue for not onlythe studio, but for the other
actors and development teams.
And like all of them, it can allcome crumble down to a single

(01:41:30):
asset. So how else can theyprotect the product? Or do they?
Or do you think they should?
That's just something that youneed to eat from time to time?

Rick (01:41:39):
It depends on what the person does or says, right?

Genesis (01:41:44):
It doesn't because the direct loss comes from the
viewership. So if majority ofviewers are not tuning in,
because of the asset, then itdoesn't matter what was sad.
It's not like you can argue whatwas was right or not, it's just
how the general viewership isgonna.

Sage (01:42:04):
Listen. Let's say you do, you spent 2030 years building
this brand. And then you hiresomebody who is a main staples
brand, and may not be the mainface of the brand, but is a face
of the brand. You're gonna letthem just say whatever the fuck
they want to then come back onMonday to record like, you just

(01:42:27):
people are going to associatewhat you said, with this brand.
And that's going to bring usdown. Right?

Rick (01:42:33):
See, here's the reason why I don't and the reason I don't
buy that is because it happensall the time. Right? Where
people will say or do somethingthat it just rubs people the
wrong way and people justdecide, You know what, I don't
want to watch the Mandaloriananymore, right? I'm gonna keep
the Mandalorian you'recontradicting yourself, though.
I'm not because you got it. Yougotta let me finish. But Pedro,

(01:42:54):
Pasco, right, Pedro pass. He didthe exact same thing Gina
Carano. Did where he comparedTrump supporters to Nazis.
Right. And there were tons ofpeople that were like, I mean,
still to this day, there arecampaigns to get Pedro Pascal
removed from the Mandalorian heshould be fired he should not be
on the show. All I'm saying isif you're going to get rid of

(01:43:18):
one person for doing the exactsame thing you need to get rid
of everyone for doing somethingsimilar because Mandalorian lost
money because of him doing thattweet and this was before Gina
Corrado true they did not doanything I can agree with

Sage (01:43:36):
that is what his what you're neglecting paid your
Costco does not sign more thanone season contracts for
anything that he does.

Rick (01:43:46):
What does that have to do with it though? So like,

Sage (01:43:48):
no, no, no, let me finish.
So by the time that finished bythe time that came out that
contract and already been overand done with he wanted to come
back, they probably sat down Iwas like, Alright, look, if
you're gonna do this, they addedprobably some more stipulations
to their funding like look, youcan't say this then Has he said
anything after that?

Rick (01:44:12):
As far as just like anything or your time I'll just

Sage (01:44:15):
Yeah, anything detrimental like that after that point?

Rick (01:44:19):
I that I don't know.
Because I do not follow

Sage (01:44:23):
Pedro the only signs once you meet him and the dude who
the moon night series, no matterwhat, they only signed contracts
one year at a time, because theydon't want to be beholden to any
corporation or anybody likethat. So the second they get
done filming their, theircontract technically is they can

(01:44:47):
get away with whatever theyweren't. At that point. They
whatever happened in betweenthat depending on how egregious
it was. They sit down and talkwith the corporation and figure
out okay, we want to bring youback but if We do this that this
has to happen. They can agree ornot agree.

Genesis (01:45:05):
Right? That Jean also kept doing a lot of different
controversial posts. And itwasn't just like the one thing.
No, no, that was just the tip ofthe iceberg

Rick (01:45:16):
potentially in her case, it also didn't help that she
wouldn't back down from it.
Right.

Sage (01:45:23):
personal accountability comes into effect here.

Rick (01:45:25):
Right. And I understand that I completely understand
that. But the thing is, keepthat same energy. Like don't
don't pick and choose when youwant to have them around, you
know, who say they

Sage (01:45:37):
aren't for all we know. I don't know what she's saying.
But well, we know Gina couldhave signed on for three
seasons. Without knowing whatmay happen in these next three
years.

Rick (01:45:48):
Well, she was I mean, she was fired season two that I'm
saying

Sage (01:45:51):
so she could have she could have signed on for three
seasons cease to happen. Oh,they still had her for season
three, under contract for seasonthree. She violated that
contract. Maybe they did try toplay ball with her. She but as
you said she wasn't backingdown. So you're like, alright,
well, fuck.

Genesis (01:46:09):
She still had it till you see her most recent contract
with the war in Ukraine.

Rick (01:46:14):
Oh, she's full blown on the right now. Like, I mean,
although I think I think it'salso she was always on the
right. I think now she's justnot afraid to say anything,
because she's got daily wireback in her. She's not afraid of
losing a job anymore.

Sage (01:46:32):
That's the smartest thing like if you're an actor, and you
know what not even know. But ifyou're an actor, period, the
smartest thing to do is to signone year contracts and just keep
going every year, we got torenew. Let me

Rick (01:46:47):
throw that out there.
Again, I understand what you'resaying. I think he's dogshit
though, because I think when youare not, I guess I just wish
that people could be separatefrom their careers when they're
not currently working. Like it'snot. I get that. That's why I'm
saying I wish we lived in aworld like that. Because I know

Genesis (01:47:07):
we do live in that world, though. Generally
speaking, people like us, itdoesn't matter. Now. You could
probably make claims for someoneor than others. But that working
at the gas station, gas stationis gonna give a shit what he's
tweeting about. We're talkingabout public

Sage (01:47:22):
seat figure. You can't even say that. You can't even
say, well, because you havethese regular Joe schmoes who
say shit out of pocket, and thensomebody posts that fucking
viral less than a week they'refired.

Genesis (01:47:38):
Yeah, yeah. What barbecue Karen was barbecue.

Sage (01:47:43):
We have tons of people who just happen to barbecue Becky,
that's it. You have tons ofpeople who just happens to they
say shit out of pocket. goingagain, it does a gender or race
and be like, Nah, you gotta go.

Genesis (01:47:55):
If you happen to become viral in that sense, yes, you
will get affected as well. Butnot all the time. And not
generally speaking. I'm talkinglike the celebrities these are
they can directly impact therevenue of whatever they're a
part of.

Sage (01:48:10):
Yeah, they can, which is why the morality causes there.

Genesis (01:48:13):
Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to explain or trying
to, to argue to Derek or RickFitch. So this is,

Rick (01:48:22):
again, I get I get what you guys are saying. I feel like
we're just talking in circles.

Sage (01:48:29):
No, you're saying is terrible. Like you don't like it
and like you understand that butyou don't like it? Right. But
the hard truth is is goodbusiness is covering their ass.
Look at it. They didn't cover ifthey didn't cover their eyes.
And they kept

Genesis (01:48:42):
replying to the, to him saying that he wishes the world
was like, wasn't like that. Butit's not. It's only it's mainly
only towards celebrities. Yeah,because they

Sage (01:48:50):
are big enough draw.

Rick (01:48:52):
Right? Like when you watch the show, you're watching it for
this celebrity. Right. But Ifeel like maybe because I don't
put celebrities I mean, exceptfor Kojima. Of course. I don't
really put celebrities ingeneral. To me in my opinion.
Nobody is bigger than anybodyknow than anybody else. Like,

(01:49:13):
like I've seen celebritiesbefore in person. I'm like,
okay, cool. He's just anotherasshole. Like he's just a human.

Sage (01:49:20):
That's the funny part.
Because if you look at it from abusiness part, nobody's bigger
than the show. Yeah. So theyhave to be like yeah, you can
feel this way you can talk aboutit but at least we wait two
contracts up

Genesis (01:49:36):
I don't think generally we were putting these actors and
as high of a pedestal No, weonce did anyways, we aren't

Sage (01:49:43):
but they still are the face of whatever show that
they're representing.

Rick (01:49:48):
Right? Because, like you said, if if someone tweets
something or if someone sayssomething, there's gonna be a
mob of people that are gonna belike you you're gonna be okay
with this person working on yourshow you Is this what you
represent? And it's like, no.
Like, the person is saying whatthey say, for what they wanted
to say at that time. And Iunderstand the company has to
protect their, their IP orwhatever you want to call it,

(01:50:12):
right? They have to protectwhatever they are in charge of.
But I just, I never

Sage (01:50:19):
I agree with that. I do get what you're saying. Because
let's let's not forget Disney'sa bunch of hypocrites, because I
was just

Genesis (01:50:29):
got some nerve to do this like given

Sage (01:50:32):
Walt Disney hated the Jews with a passion

Rick (01:50:36):
that Family Guide don't we cryo frozen? So? Are the Jews
dead?

Genesis (01:50:43):
Recently and ongoing conspiracy theory that he is
frozen somewhere so yeah,

Sage (01:50:47):
he hated the Jews with a passion but it in their defense
role for what we don't know.
Maybe they could be trying toget away from it, you know? And
then And then by you said itbring this negative

Rick (01:51:00):
I think you're you hit the nail on the head with with Egina
specifically because they verywell could be trying to move
away from that legacy. And sothe last thing you want is this
chick representing you. Andshe's spouting off about Jews
and conservatives like youprobably don't want someone like
that associated with yourbusiness. Right? Which I get it.

(01:51:23):
Gene is probably a bad example.
For someone that was

Genesis (01:51:26):
I personally don't really give a shit about her.

Sage (01:51:31):
I look at everything from a business standpoint. Like if
you're a celebrity, everythingthat you do has to be looked at
from a business standpoint.
Because your that is your life,like your daily life is your
fucking business. I think thatyou have to conduct yourself in
that manner.

Genesis (01:51:49):
Or the job. Yeah,

Rick (01:51:51):
I think the real weird thing is I like all these
celebrities that get in trouble.
Like, you don't have a team ofpeople with you by now that like
goes over your tweets before youhit that shit. Oh, they do. And

Sage (01:52:05):
they got a team people. A lot of these people surround
themselves well, yes, man.

Rick (01:52:10):
Yes, for sure. For sure, who aren't really

Sage (01:52:13):
looking out for their best interest. They're just there for
the fucking check.

Rick (01:52:17):
Yeah, for sure. Where they're just like, You know
what? Yeah, go ahead and do it.
I'm getting paid. So what do Icare what you tweet. Now? Last
one. Real quick. MichaelRichards, aka Kramer from
Seinfeld. I don't know if youguys are familiar with. I know
what he do. Are you familiar?

Genesis (01:52:43):
I'm very familiar.

Rick (01:52:44):
Okay. Okay. So for those that aren't he, you know,
Seinfeld, the TV show ended. Andso, Kramer decided to do stand
up comedy. didn't go over too.
Well. There were a couple ofpeople talking. They were only
when they were heckling him. Ithink they were all they were.
Okay, well, then they deserveit. No, I'm kidding. So he was

(01:53:05):
on stage. He was on the stage.
And yeah, he just startedspelling the N word. See,

Sage (01:53:16):
I don't I don't give him a pause for the fact that as a
comedian. You should be able todismantle people. Yeah, way
better than going to racialslurs. For sure.

Rick (01:53:29):
He should be able to. But now but on the other side,
though. He wasn't a comedian forvery long.

Sage (01:53:37):
Well, that happened after the Seinfeld ended and he was on
Seinfeld. What? 10 years.

Genesis (01:53:42):
Yeah, but he wasn't a comedian before Seinfeld. Right?

Rick (01:53:45):
He was never really a comedian. Oh, he wasn't? No, no.
He

Genesis (01:53:49):
got found on a fucking dating show. Oh, I didn't know.
He was a contestant on like, oneof those old school. The dating
shows. Untested one. What date?
Would you take me? online date

Sage (01:54:01):
or something? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know that. I thought he
was a comedian beforehand.

Rick (01:54:06):
The show was what really?
Always No, actually hold on.
Maybe we might both be wronghere. So it says he. He began
his career as a stand upcomedian. Stepping into the
spotlight when he appeared onBilly Crystal's first TV
special. It was in 1998 whenSeinfeld ended that he returned

(01:54:27):
to stand up. So he will end andhe was a stand up for eight
years before the incident. Soyeah, he definitely should have
been able to.

Sage (01:54:37):
As a comedian, you should definitely be able to just
destroy somebody withoutresulting resorting to
differently

Genesis (01:54:44):
even if he resorted to not handling it. Well, like he
went that route. Yeah. He chosethat route that night. I don't
think he realized that. Cameraswere in cell phones at that
time.

Sage (01:54:57):
He woke up and chose violence.

Rick (01:55:00):
Oh. And you know, I mean, that was in 2006. And he was in
the B movie The very next year.
And then, yeah, he was in.
Nobody watched that. No, he'sbeen in a couple of things since
that incident. He's in Curb YourEnthusiasm.

Genesis (01:55:18):
He wasn't curb and they brought him with what happened.

Sage (01:55:23):
though. I don't really feel like that affected his
career too much. Because if youreally look at Seinfeld, nobody
really did anything after that.

Genesis (01:55:34):
I mean, Jerry Seinfeld's like, well, as far as
bank accounts go, I mean,

Sage (01:55:38):
but yeah, he's he's Jerry Seinfeld. Outside of him outside
of having Jason Alexander.
Maybe. Was it Mary Drea,Dreyfus,

Rick (01:55:47):
or? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Genesis (01:55:49):
I think he had a couple of shows, but nothing really
long standing.

Rick (01:55:52):
No, she was on Veep. Veep is he?

Genesis (01:55:55):
Oh, yeah. That one that's

Sage (01:55:58):
outside of those three.
Nobody really did anything fromthat show.

Rick (01:56:02):
As far as Michael Richards goes, I mean, he definitely
should have handled it better.
But I don't think it really hurthim that much.

Sage (01:56:09):
I honestly don't think his career was gonna go anywhere
after this show. And

Genesis (01:56:14):
yeah, he's did his

Rick (01:56:16):
own show at one point, but it didn't go anywhere. It lasted
seven episodes.

Sage (01:56:20):
Like I'm saying, I don't I don't see his career actually
going because he was good forthe show. But outside of that,
I'm not seeing him really beinggood for any movie or anything
outside of that.

Genesis (01:56:32):
Outside of like, what actually happened? Do you think
it would be different had hiscareer continued? Like no, would
it what his actions make adifference to you if you
continue to be successful andwhatever?

Sage (01:56:46):
I think we will still be wondering who the fuck is it
Kramer right now? Because itjust the level of comedy stepped
up so much after the Seinfeldshow. That what he was bringing
to the table just wasn't there.
Because more more and more blackcomics. Got notoriety finally.

(01:57:09):
So then, so then you got the yougot the Kevin Hart's you got the
earthquakes. You got the DaveChappelle girls who were really
just going out there and notjust telling jokes, but telling
stories. In the vein of EddieMurphy and Richard Pryor. Were
they they weren't just tellingjokes. They were telling stories
about their life.

Genesis (01:57:31):
So are you saying we needed Michael Richards racism
to elevate black comics?

Sage (01:57:36):
No, I'm saying that. I'm saying right when he did that,
that's when that changing incomedy kind of happened. Because
he was just up there tellingjokes. But the storyteller comic
started to get a rise at thatpoint. Because you look at you
look at like Bill Burr Milburn.
Bill Barr tells jokes, but hetells stories

Genesis (01:57:58):
about what's gonna do with Michael Richards. His his,
his version

Sage (01:58:01):
of comedy would not have survived is what I'm saying.

Genesis (01:58:05):
Oh, you're saying he would have failed? Regardless.
Yeah.

Sage (01:58:10):
Because he didn't know how to tell jokes like that. He
didn't know how to relate to hisactual life and and be that. I
don't know, I don't know.
vulnerables the word but, sure.
But the comedy playingdefinitely shifted. Right around
the time that was coming tolife.

Genesis (01:58:30):
I see what you're saying now. Okay.

Rick (01:58:32):
Now I get it. I mean, as far as Michael Richards goes,
like he said, I don't thinkbecause I mean, even what Jason
Alexander his career didn'treally take off that much. Jason

Genesis (01:58:43):
No, he wouldn't.

Sage (01:58:45):
Yeah, and he was he was epic and Broadway. He's one of
the he's one of the legends ofBroadway. Yeah.

Rick (01:58:53):
Yeah, so I mean, who knows? But that is pretty much
the end of my list here.

Genesis (01:58:59):
We went on so long Yeah, I wanted to talk about you
know, some painters you know

Sage (01:59:07):
almost three hours.

Genesis (01:59:11):
Man, Picasso is a piece of shit. I'll just say that.
look him up. He said women areonly machines for suffering.
Caught in one of my favoriteartists Salvador Dali every
time.

Sage (01:59:26):
You can't judge people all the fucking time.

Genesis (01:59:30):
Well, you can judge him for his torture of women and
physically harming women. And

Sage (01:59:39):
it does suck and it is fucking trash. But the fact that
that was socially acceptableback then, it's a part of
history.

Genesis (01:59:46):
Maybe it's cold outside. One of my favorite
artists Salvador Dali intonecrophilia cruelty to animals
people. He also was very biginto Hitler. What Oh, he's seen
he said, he said that was yourfavorite. His art isn't? is

(02:00:08):
dope. I appreciate his art. Hesaid I often dreamed about
Hitler as other men, aboutwomen.

Rick (02:00:16):
Oh,

Genesis (02:00:17):
yeah, I didn't know that. His paintings are my
favorite pieces of art.

Rick (02:00:26):
Or the way you said his opinion is a work of art.

Genesis (02:00:30):
Yeah, I didn't say that. I mean, this, this, this
would have led to probably ahuge conversation. But I did
want to talk about some of thefounding fathers in the creation
of like historical Americandocuments, you know, being that
they were slave owners yetthey're writing documents for
sole freedom. And ladies and

Sage (02:00:51):
gentlemen, tune in for part two, in a couple of weeks,

Genesis (02:00:56):
unless we get canceled by then, thank you all for
turning into a cringe worthyepisode of The Haven exchange. I
don't know what the conclusionis here. I feel like we are able
to separate the art from theartists I think, between the
three of us to some

Sage (02:01:14):
degree is a conclusion.
That's more of a feel like youalmost have to pick your line
and sin at this point, you know,

Genesis (02:01:22):
I know but I hate that it has to be one or none. I
think each of these cases needto be looked at individually.
And like how and in these, thesecelebrities, you know,
specifically because that's whatwe we talked about, like they
hold something different to usthan other people. So like, I
don't really care about GinaCarano. I'm not gonna really

(02:01:43):
watch her stuff. Either way.
She's an idiot for what she did.
But then there's Kevin Spaceywhere like, I do feel kind of
different about his work and Iprobably would avoid it to the
best of my ability.

Sage (02:01:55):
Because Kevin Spacey you know, we have a history of Kevin
Spacey. Right? We don't have wedon't have that really that big
of a history Gina Corrado, JanaCorrado did what the youngsters
will say, fumbled the bag.

Genesis (02:02:08):
What they're saying these days. Yeah, she. I don't
know what they say.

Sage (02:02:14):
Like she she had it. She knew what she knew, in her
contract, what she could andcould not say, and say fuck it
anyway. But then you have peoplelike John Boyega. Who says that,
but he says the things he sayare really detrimental. But

(02:02:35):
they're shedding light intoareas that Hollywood may not
want us to really pay attentionto. But he's holding his ground.
He's like, No, I'm not. Like hejust turned down a rule from
fucking Marvel. Because he'slike, No, I'm not working with
you on to fix this.

Genesis (02:02:51):
Yeah, and that's, that's more power to him. I
admire the courage. But I gottaeat. I wouldn't have done that.
Yeah,

Rick (02:02:59):
I would have done that either. I get it. The man has
principles. But yeah, I mean, Ithink that is fumbling the bag
as well.

Sage (02:03:08):
Not already has three other movie roles lined up.

Genesis (02:03:11):
I mean, yeah. Hey,

Rick (02:03:12):
that's true. He doesn't need Marvel. No, I mean,

Sage (02:03:15):
I mean, Marvel's The money that you want at this point.

Rick (02:03:22):
But he already I mean, obviously Star Wars is owned by
the same Yeah.

Sage (02:03:26):
And that's what pissed him off because the way the
character there.

Rick (02:03:31):
And that's, but go ahead, dude. I'm gonna mute because
then I'm just gonna keepranting.

Genesis (02:03:37):
You know, really what I'm saying. Like, we have to
look at these individually.
There's no real like, solidanswer to any remove art from
the artist because I think itdepends on the individual
depends on the accusations. Youknow what the individual
actually did? I'm glad to see Ithink the one shining light I
pulled from this at least was,you know, the Michael Vick
story. I had no idea, his pathto redemption. I'm actually

(02:03:58):
going to look further into thatbecause I soon as you brought up
Vic, you know, I'm like thatdude.

Sage (02:04:05):
He made a mistake. He acknowledged it and correct it.

Rick (02:04:09):
Yep. Yeah. He went, Yeah, he went the right way. Uh, he
went overboard to an extent tomake things right. You know, I
definitely know. It could justbe me as a fanboy. Right. But
yeah,

Sage (02:04:22):
and people still give them shit. Like,

Genesis (02:04:23):
I want to see you make that poll on Facebook right now.
I don't believe the outcome wasgonna be what you think it is.

Sage (02:04:29):
The outcome is gonna be so much vacate. It's gonna be
ridiculous. How I want to

Genesis (02:04:33):
say it, I want

Rick (02:04:34):
to post it. I'm just gonna post.

Sage (02:04:38):
Like he really is. He's trying his best he devoted his
life to not letting making surenobody else makes the same
mistakes that he did. And peopledon't want to give him credit.
They're like, No, fuck him. Hedeserves to die.

Genesis (02:04:53):
You're gonna have haters. A

Sage (02:04:55):
majority of people will say that though.

Genesis (02:04:58):
Yeah. unforced Isn't it

Sage (02:05:01):
like that like they aren't human mean, people make
mispriced Shit happens.

Genesis (02:05:07):
That's I mean, that's a larger issue. We seem to have
trouble with given peoplepathways to redemption. Not
everybody's deserves it. But Ithink clearly some do.

Rick (02:05:18):
No, I can't make a poll on

Genesis (02:05:21):
j&j ready before you can go ahead. With that. Thank
you everybody for tuning in tothis week's episode of The Haven
exchange podcast. We will seeyou next week with a brand new
topic brand new shenanigans. Andwe love you all I want

Sage (02:05:39):
to point out before we even started recording, I say,
you know, let's keep it under anhour. We're fucking three hours.

Genesis (02:05:45):
I blame you.

Rick (02:05:49):
Maybe 20 was too much. I mean, that's actually with I
think I took a couple of daysoff

Genesis (02:05:59):
by later

Sage (02:06:02):
this is the Haven exchange.

All Episodes

Separating Art from Artist - Haven Exchange #66

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Separating Art from Artist - Haven Exchange #66