The Bandwagon Effect - Haven Exchange #60 - The Haven Exchange

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
He only likes because she likes to grown up with a

(00:02):
perfume on her cell phone andoh, and get this mom. She drinks
iced tea.

Genesis (00:11):
I can't imagine anyone being more likable than you. But
apparently this new girl is. Somy advice would be to start
copying her in every way. Ithink that would Alex would say

Sage (00:25):
welcome to

Genesis (00:27):
The Haven exchange podcast number 60. We have a
reckless episode for you thisweek in CGI handled the pressure
problem. This week, we aretalking about the lemming effect
or more commonly viewed asjumping on the bandwagon. Keep

(00:47):
on listening as sage and myselfdive deep into the idea of
jumping on the bandwagon, alongwith mass hysteria and body
wash. Yes, body wash. But first,if you're enjoying the show each
week, give us a review or ratingon your favorite podcast app or
even tell a friend to check outthe show it helps us out. And as

(01:08):
always, if you'd like todirectly support the show, head
over to patreon.com/havenexchange and subscribe to the
show there for just $1 a monthand gain access to all kinds of
bonus perks. All right, it'stime to blindly follow me into
the greatest episode ever. Thisis Haven exchange number 60 the

(01:31):
bandwagon effect. This is theHaven exchange? Let's go

(02:11):
straight into right into it.
Yeah,

Sage (02:13):
no, no, no no awkward sons ladies and gentlemen, boys and
girls. Are you ready for thebest podcast ever? For the first
time? We don't have Rick. Herehe is out with a severe anus
injury doctor said he should beokay. But I told him to just lay

(02:34):
off the bananas.

Genesis (02:36):
I thought it was his new his new upgraded the day he
got

Sage (02:40):
huh Yeah, I thought I told him he didn't need to turbo.com

Genesis (02:47):
on the low

Sage (02:49):
might you when your day has to rev up is bad thing.

Genesis (02:54):
It runs on diesel. It runs on diesel so no. Today
holy. This is gonna be the bestepisode ever.

Sage (03:05):
Yeah, no. Oh man. Or hope I'll be honest, I wouldn't pay
attention

Genesis (03:13):
will be Rotel I was looking at my phone.

Sage (03:17):
Or DSB edit that out. Yep, yeah. The actual conversation of
intellects.

Genesis (03:25):
Do we even have to pay DSP in this episode like this
can just not even be edited?
Like it

Sage (03:32):
probably won't need to be edited.

Genesis (03:35):
Well, welcome to The Haven exchange podcast with the
best hosts of the show. And withme, not Rick

Sage (03:46):
I'm 1111 Stranger Things Yep. Stranger Things it's

Genesis (03:51):
fine it's so there's there's a lot of good shows out
right now. So we got StrangerThings did you watch Obi Wan

Sage (03:58):
Yeah, watch that last week those those first two episodes
are pretty far that's prettygood. I read an article today
something was think some insiderpost I forget which state or
whatever it was. Oh, UK Insider.
That's what it was. And theywere like Oh, Stranger Things is
good. But I really wish thatthey would know the 80s and
stone a little bit better. Thenyou look at the author some 25

(04:21):
year old who didn't fuckingalive. I'm like shut the fuck
up. Be like get out of here.

Genesis (04:29):
I think they have nailed it. Although like you
felt it in the first season likea lot. I think in this season.
You see it in some differentways. Seeing like the colors and
stuff like because they're inCalifornia, I think

Sage (04:44):
yeah, they're going back and forth. So this one is more
some more darker. But let thelast season when that was in 85
that season was colorful as fuckeverywhere you look.

Genesis (04:57):
Yeah, the mall right now we're in like that. that
broad wall I mean, I mean, Ididn't really grow up

Sage (05:04):
the Miles was. See, I was thinking about that too. But
miles were still semiirrelevant. Most of our
childhood didn't really start togo away until, like 2002 ish.

Genesis (05:14):
Yeah, yeah. That's another topic that we've been
wanting to do is the rise andfall and while

Sage (05:23):
some are still some are still hanging on. How I don't
know when Amazon is a thing.

Genesis (05:30):
Well, I mean, you can say the same for any brick and
mortar retail outlet, right?

Sage (05:35):
I mean, yes or no? Does you know Lana? Yeah, you can you
can except for like, hardwarematerials and shit like that
nobody's waiting three or fourdays for like a rich

Genesis (05:46):
that are like clothing doesn't seem to really, at least
for me buying clothing online isstill like troublesome.

Sage (05:56):
Yeah, because you know, size charts differ. Like I only
really buy clothing line is ifin when they have a size chart,
they actually have it brokendown in like inches. So then I
can take like a ruler orwhatever and, and really do a
room and magic measurement onmyself.

Genesis (06:12):
I should probably do that. I just kind of like
imagine what I know to beinches. And it helps in some
ways. If you know that we

Sage (06:22):
always do that just because I don't want to run the
risk of getting something that Idid that one time one time only.
Just dope ass hoodia ordered. Itwas a large, but I didn't know
it was Chinese large. Yeah,exactly. Which is like a shoe
medium over here.

Genesis (06:40):
And it sucks too, because a lot of those like
hoodies and shirts that I see.
And they have these dope asprints. And then when you get
them in, then it's like, who isthis for? This for? Certainly
not me.

Sage (06:52):
So it took like fucking two months to get here. And when
I got here, I couldn't wear themon the phone. Couldn't wait.

Genesis (07:02):
Oh, speaking of which, I have an update on some new
purchases that we talked abouton previous episodes, and I've
got some good news and bad news.
Okay. So the first thing that Ibought that came out of an
episode that we recorded was theautomatic toothpaste dispenser.
Life changing? Nope, it'sfucking terrible. Whatever one

(07:26):
that I got is just terrible. AndI just threw it away today.

Sage (07:35):
Threw it away.

Genesis (07:39):
So one, I didn't even fit the two. I had two types of
toothpastes. Right? It didn'teven fit either one of those and
then the one at least, like Icould see because it's not a
standard size one. The other onewas totally the size of like a
normal toothpaste to didn't fitit. And I could like force it in

(07:59):
there and then stick my toothrational sensor that tells it to
like, and then it just gotfucking Googly goggled up inside
the little hole. And I tried tomake it work I landed there for
I kept it there for like a weekand now I just threw it away
because I'm just

Sage (08:17):
I'm gonna see if I can find the one that I use. Because
yes, please no issues.

Genesis (08:22):
I went for the one that was like moderately priced had
decent reviews, although Ididn't read the reviews. And if
I did, I would read the things Iran into. But it was like 30
bucks, which seemed to be inlike the mid level range of
pricing. It was stylish. It wasautomatic. Well, you need to be
stylish for to you know, go thedecor in the bathrooms

Sage (08:44):
people walking in. Yeah, that's my toothpaste dispenser.

Genesis (08:48):
You don't want to just look like like the shitty
bathroom, you know, you want tolook cool and modern and sleek
and match the rest of the decor.
What do you have just like shitthrown about no rhyme.

Sage (09:02):
I go for function function over so when for things like
that. I don't really care ifsomebody come in my bathroom and
judge that get out and actuallycome in here.

Genesis (09:17):
The only reason that answers stayed so long is
because of the style. Definitelynot the function. I wasn't using
it even though it was justsitting there and then I finally
just decided to throw it away.
However the second thing though,this is a big one. This is a
this one's a big game changer.
Okay. I bought a loofa and somebody wash.

Sage (09:41):
Oh my god. Welcome to the 21st century.

Genesis (09:46):
Say goodbye to the bar soap because I smell good right
now.

Sage (09:51):
That's what I'm saying.
That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
And loofahs unexpensive you justreplace them every 30 days and
you can tell When it's time toget a new one because they start
to like unravel and get weighedlooser than they get you know
you're getting super tight yeahyeah they start to unravel and
get super loose and this let youknow like oh, it's time to get

Genesis (10:12):
the one I got was like this it's a large like sponge
looking thing.

Sage (10:17):
Oh like the yellow one.
Yeah that's the that's the realLulu for that one it's gonna get
off all your dead skin.

Genesis (10:24):
Yeah, I felt like it was doing that. Yeah, I enjoyed
it. Although it was like it waskind of weird in certain parts,
you know washing my body I waslike, Okay, this is new
technique, I'm gonna have tolearn it and then the other the
other equation to figure out ishow much body wash to putting
because I definitely put way toomuch the first time because I

(10:46):
was trying to rinse out all thesoap going and going and going
and going and going I was likeokay, I need to reduce this

Sage (10:52):
Yeah, you're never truly going to rinse that off. So
because of the way that they'redesigned all those air pockets
they breed more so so as long asas long as it's a little there
and water if you squeeze it it'sjust gonna make more so

Genesis (11:04):
yeah, I like the first time like put a lot so I wasted
time, but it's a learningexperience and it's a great one
I am I'm actually very happy tohave discovered this

Sage (11:19):
disk. They've only been around for 2025 years I'm like
that

Genesis (11:27):
you know, you know I'm a smart person but it's some of
the common things like just overmy head you know?

Sage (11:35):
Just so much easier than using a bar so it just is

Genesis (11:40):
it's nice you know like I wasn't expect well I mean I
got some decent body wash tolike I didn't get like the you
know the dollar store like thekit that you can get
surprisingly Old Spice Maddythat was the one was actually
really good. That was the one Igot was which ones you get there
was the smelling one it was likeintense scent and exfoliating I

(12:02):
don't remember though

Sage (12:03):
they all got different flavors I mean different yeah
flavors called flavors fuckingAbsolutely. So like the one I
got I think it's like Hulk Hulkfan or half moon or something
like that. If you look at thebottle look at the bottle on the
back it's a picture of like ashark taking a bath and some of
the bait the bottles always havesome funny as shit on their

(12:24):
marketing

Genesis (12:25):
has gotten really good.
That's for sure like theircommercials because used to be
just like that was the thing yougot like your dad for Father's
Day some like cheap old spicebut now it's like kind of
elevated to this this modernmodern thing and I'm there for
it

Sage (12:46):
think in the name of some of their sense. See yet Elise
all

Genesis (12:53):
I got wasn't like some crazy marketing term on it

Sage (12:59):
as well. That's kind of all of them though.

Genesis (13:02):
I have to look again because like I see when I was
shopping for it I seen likestuff like cedar wood. I was
like I don't want to smell likewood.

Sage (13:09):
So they got swagger. You got Fiji. Temporary you can
relax. You got one forexfoliating, relax testing. The
one I've been trying to findit's not in stores. I guess
apparently can only get it a lotlike Panther. I won't try that
one.

Genesis (13:24):
But just sounds cool.

Sage (13:25):
They night Panther was very glove cracking guard. I
feel

Genesis (13:32):
like I missed out on because I didn't get like one
with a cool name. I think it wasjust a regular. It was just a
regular one.

Sage (13:40):
Yeah, I use Fiji Fiji smells awesome. But I definitely
want to try fucking nightPanther.

Genesis (13:46):
I wonder what that sounds like.

Sage (13:47):
I don't know. But the name has me

Genesis (13:52):
see, you know what that's playing into? It's
playing into a certain you know,it's marketing feeding into our
bandwagon. Desire.

Sage (14:08):
I'm not sure I just know that it works 100% of the time.
50%

Genesis (14:12):
Yeah. All right. Well, trying to segue into before Rick
comes back and said you guystalked about plugging body laws
for 30 minutes. What do you guysneed me? Huh?

Sage (14:29):
That's the only thing that can listen to this.

Genesis (14:32):
We can say everything we want. He's only gonna hear
from like, people he knows inreal life that listen to the
show. Like did you hear themroasting the shit out of you and
your turbo but Dave dieseldriven turbo?

Sage (14:45):
Yeah. Dangerous ain't no injuries. He needs to work.
Watch out for them.

Genesis (14:50):
They're dangerous. I know. That sounds like a cool
rap nickname.

Sage (14:55):
No, no, it is not.

Genesis (14:58):
When you said it had Like a rhythm to it dangerous

Sage (15:03):
not to get off topic again, but I got tricked into
finally watching that fucking MNight Shyamalan movie. Oh, oh,
that was good. No, it was not.
And for the people who haven'tseen it, I'm not gonna spoil it.
But the do the rapper's name wasmidsize sedan. I almost threw my
TV out of my own house.

Genesis (15:32):
from reality, though,

Sage (15:34):
yes, it is. midsize sedan is your rapper name.

Genesis (15:41):
I really liked that movie, but I'm biased to because
I like ebonite. So

Sage (15:45):
and I can't stand him. So exactly why

Genesis (15:50):
we are and we have arrived to our conclusions. What
are we? What are we talkingabout on this episode? This was
one of your topics again?

Sage (16:00):
Was this originally my topic? I thought it was I think
somebody had told me to do it.
So instead of questioning it, Ijust fall in line with it.

Genesis (16:11):
Oh, yes. They're prone to this effect.

Sage (16:21):
Limiting effect or for the layman's out there. monkey see
monkey do.

Genesis (16:27):
Yes, there's that the bandwagon effect also jumping in
what is what is what is that?

Sage (16:34):
Just not thinking for yourself. I mean, just wanting
to either not stand out and beyou know, a part of the quote
unquote cool crowd. Or just notbeing able to think for yourself
and be like, oh, so media istelling me this, so I gotta do
this.

Genesis (16:53):
Yeah, yeah, there's all of that.

Sage (16:56):
It's fucking stupid. Like if people will be more original
nowadays, it's just like, ticktock. Tick Tick Tock is a
perfect example. Like you sitthere somebody comes down and
does like, some dance video andit goes viral. Within the hour,
you got at least 200 Othermotherfuckers doing the exact

(17:16):
same dance video.

Genesis (17:18):
Yeah, and they've even pointed like, what's the new
trend? What's the tic tac trend?
Yeah,

Sage (17:22):
it's fucking stupid. Just be original.

Genesis (17:25):
But now exposing yourself. How original Are you?
In your day to day like, You'rea very fashionista fella.
Fashion is hugely plays into thelemming effect, right?
Especially I'm sure you're allthrough school, like, especially
when you're in school.

Sage (17:47):
Yeah, but even in school in school. I didn't really care.
I mean, I was I was a kidshowing up to school with the
fucking silk Dragonball Zshirts. I didn't really give a
shit.

Genesis (18:00):
And you stood out from the crowd.

Sage (18:02):
They wouldn't do what I want now. Like I don't wear what
everybody likes to wear. Wearwhat makes me feel comfortable
and looks good on me. I don't Idon't care if it's popular or
not.

Genesis (18:13):
Do you see yourself as a trendsetter? Then? Are you the
one that starts these movements?
Oh, hell no. I'm not even close.
Nobody's going in withDragonball Z slick shirts. No,

Sage (18:25):
no, no. I might be popular now. Since anime is so huge now.
Back then, definitely got mesome dirty looks.

Genesis (18:36):
Well, you weren't wearing Jenko jeans and fishnet
shirts too.

Sage (18:40):
It wasn't wearing during because like I was, I did go
through a phase where I wore allmy football jerseys backwards.
That was a thing. That was thatwas that was what was in in the
early 2000s. I remember that.
Yeah. All all your footballjerseys had to wear him
backwards. That sounds sostupid. Yeah, looking back, it

(19:01):
doesn't make a whole lot ofsense at all. But

Genesis (19:08):
so what do you think, is the reason for this?

Sage (19:13):
For what for? Like, why

Genesis (19:14):
do we fall into like wanting to be a part of the
group?

Sage (19:18):
Because it's scary to be alone. A lot of people don't
want to be that person.
Especially when you're a kid. Imean, kids are many Hitler's

Genesis (19:29):
many well, it would be Hitler's followers when that?

Sage (19:32):
No, no, they're just tiny little Hitler's just hassles.
Yeah.

Genesis (19:37):
Like just followers versus leaders.

Sage (19:40):
Like if you're different from what they deem at that
point to be quote unquote, cool.
They're gonna give you shoot forit mercilessly.

Genesis (19:51):
Yes, there is that I think there's

Sage (19:54):
but that I feel like that though, translates into
adulthood because people stilljust want to fit in. They want
to be especially now with, youknow, social media and
everything.

Genesis (20:05):
Yeah, definitely want to bring social media into the
mix because it's a hugeproponent of, you know,
rocketing you know, smallbeliefs into large groups, I
would say, especially withpolitics, politics probably is
one of the biggest negativesthat can come from the lemming

(20:26):
effect, I would say.

Sage (20:29):
I mean, I don't know how even blame lemming affects
politics. It's just a bunch ofstupid people.

Genesis (20:35):
Well hear me out.
Because I think the lemmingeffect. So if we break it down,
it's basically you want to fitin to the group? And you said,
because it's scary. So thatmeans it's, it's safety to be in
part of the masses, right? Butyeah,

Sage (20:56):
well, okay, maybe I'm looking at when you say in
politics, are you talking aboutlike politicians? Or, like, just
just your regular,

Genesis (21:04):
even higher, just the highest level, you can go with
politics and picking asidebetween Republican and
Democratic?

Sage (21:10):
I don't think that has anything to do with it. That's
all money. That's all it is.
When it's up, who's gonna payme? Who's gonna pay me enough to
make sure this vote goesthrough? Or who who's new? Or
who already paid you already do?
lobbyists, lobbyists is legal,and it's nothing but abroad?

Genesis (21:32):
Well, that's what I'm talking about with politics is
like the societal like,conversation about politics on
social media, and how Democratshate Republicans, Republicans
hate Democrats and the ammo theyuse to fuel their war against
each other on social media. Ithink a lot of that is driven by

(21:55):
siloed conversations. For thelemming effect, which would
Yeah, the fox, the news outletswould certainly play a role into
that. Because I think is, here'swhat, here's what the limiting
effect I think comes from it'sit's our brains. And we see this
in a lot of different aspects ofour life. But we like to our

(22:17):
brain likes to find shortcuts.
And we see that in like the waywe recall, memories, everything.
Our brain likes to findshortcuts. And the best way to
like shortcut your belief systemis to just what is the person
next to me believe in, and justwhen you when you shortcut into
that, and then you're intothese, like, other people,

(22:39):
you're in a group with otherbeliefs, whether it's like, oh,
we all believe that these arethe clothes we should be
wearing. These are the this iswhat's right, this is what's
wrong. You already shortcut itinto the group. Now what
happens, and this is like,psychologically sound is that we
get reinforced by our beliefs,because we're surrounded by

(23:04):
those that believe it's soproves to us that what we say is
right, because the other personsays it's right. So that means
therefore we should be right.
And now we're in a group, we allthink this is the right thing to
do or say, and it strengthens,it builds these, these these
pillars up. And that's whatsocial media is doing.

(23:24):
Especially.

Sage (23:25):
I mean, you're not wrong.
But I guess I want to put this Ican't think of how to put this.
So let's go with let's go to thewhole the politics part. I feel
it's more brainwashing thananything. Kind of Yeah. Because
like I said, I remember they didthat. They did that tests a

(23:49):
couple of weeks back now wherethey had devout Fox News
watchers, watch CNN for oneweek. And almost all of them
change their position on howthey on several of the key
issues plaguing this country.
Yeah, like because, you know, ifyou live in like a, like you

(24:12):
say, to me, it's what you know.
So like, if you live in a ruraltown, where there's maybe 200
people in that whole town,you're all pretty much going to
be on the same page. You're notgoing to have you're not going
to have 199 Republicans and oneDemocrat

Genesis (24:28):
Yeah, and like this, there's been studies in that in
the same kind of thing thatyou're describing, but there's
like actually been experimentswill they'll put a group I
forget. I think it was a Frenchstudy, but they they had a group
of people come in and they said,like, what do you think of the
current French president? Andwhat do you think about
Americans? And so they all likeanswered how they felt right?

(24:53):
And then they had them like getinto groups and like talk about
what those those each of thosepoints and And then ask them
like how they felt afterwards.
And it what it showed was thatyou were more likely to have an
extreme point of view of the, ofyour original point of view
after being exposed to theconversations in a group

(25:16):
setting. So like, people thatwere slightly against Americans
became even more againstAmericans after having discussed
the same belief within a group.
So we get pushed to an extremelevel of our opinions when
you're surrounded or talkingabout the same subject in a

(25:37):
group setting. Just fascinating.

Sage (25:40):
But do you think that would fall under like mass
hysteria?

Genesis (25:44):
It would. And that is definitely something I wanted to
talk about today, because I gota bunch of like, real world
example of mass hysteria thathappened and that's a fucking
crazy thing that we, thathappens to us as humans.
Possible.

Sage (26:02):
It's been happening for years. I mean, look at the whole
Salem Witch Hunt.

Genesis (26:06):
Yeah. I have different opinions about the Salem witch
hunts. Oh, yeah. It is masshysteria to a degree, right.
They. But there was what startedit like, like, was it? Was it
like the kids were getting sickor something? And then they

(26:28):
said, like, some lady did it.
And then now everybody, like, Imean, I wish I had that story up
front.

Sage (26:35):
I don't know what it was, but I can probably guess it's
some old white guy was gotcaught doing something. And
instead of taking the blame, heblinked. He blamed it on some
woman calling her which, becausehe was a prominent figure in the
community. They believed him.
And since they're like, Oh,there's one which there must be
more. So every time thishappens, everybody just started

(26:56):
playing witch, witch witch, andbecomes a witch hunt. Like,
because people don't want to ownup and take responsibility for
their own shit. Especially ifthey have a scapegoat.

Genesis (27:06):
Yeah, but if if our if we're able to like experience
mass hysteria, that means likesomething is going on within our
brains and our bodies thatallows us to get into that mode,
right? Or was the masses maybethis is what the mass hysteria
part was it that was that?
Whatever was it was something todo with kids, though. I swear.

(27:27):
Oh, man, I wish I had lookedthat up. But I swear it was
something to do with little kidsand something was going on with
them. But then like, all thekids started experiencing this.
And that was the massive stereopart. And then they blamed it.
And the women and they calledthem which is that they said
they were the ones doing it tothese kids, even though the kids
were experiencing mass hysteriais something like that.

Sage (27:51):
All right. I can't confirm or deny that.

Genesis (27:54):
But we'll just say I'm right, then.

Sage (27:57):
I won't say that at all.
But I guess you could use thatwith what's like currently going
on. Like with all this, all theschool shootings, and most
recently, a school shooting. Andit comes up, the topic comes up
every time. They're like, Oh,well, we need stricter gun

(28:17):
control laws, gun control laws.
And they're like, Oh, well, guncontrol laws don't work, you
need to start having a good guywith a gun. There's been several
cases where there has been agood guy with a gun there. And
he didn't do shit.

Genesis (28:32):
Yeah, and even with that, too, that's why I feel
like this is what I wanted tomention with the politics thing,
too, is that when we get intogroup thought, it's, it's our
brain taking shortcuts. And theevidence, I think that that is
what's going on is that these,these seem to be unlike things
that have come like deepcomplexity to him. So like

(28:55):
politics, diving into whatpolitics is, and what, what is
right for a country for, for,for groups as a whole, like
there's so much complexity to itthrough a shortcut it to just to
see what the other person nextto us thinks. And the same thing
with this gun reform thing. Solike, people see a maybe a vague

(29:17):
idea of what they think shouldbe. And then that gets
compounded and strengthened bythe other views they're seeing.
And then it becomes the what wejust talked about becoming
extreme about it. And so we havethese polarizing things where
it's either gun reform or no gunreform or gun policy changes,
even though the situation is toocomplex to just be a black or

(29:39):
white answer, seen, as Steve

Sage (29:41):
noted, very, is very much is a black and white answer. I
don't because if you if you lookaround the globe, we're like one
of the only countries who stillhave school shootings.

Genesis (29:50):
Sure. And

Sage (29:53):
just then you're not trying to be too political here.
But just looking at it. Thestate that has the loosest gun
can throw balls, which is Texashas the most fucking shootings?
I mean, yes, it doesn't take itdoesn't it is true. It is 100
century.

Genesis (30:12):
I thought the the proponents for looser gun laws
is was using Texas as an examplethat there's less crime, there's
less of that.

Sage (30:24):
You have so many fucking shootings. This last shooting
was in Texas.

Genesis (30:30):
Yeah, but not all of them were not all

Sage (30:32):
of them. But since I forget I was watching. I was
watching Kimbo because camo dida whole like little segment on
it. Because and he was actuallyin tears crying about the shit.
But he broke it down. And he waslike, over and since the start
of 2020. It was a ridiculousamount of new sci fi fantasy.

Genesis (30:57):
But yeah, it isn't your belief that we should have
stricter gun laws.

Sage (31:02):
It should. Yeah, there's no reason why somebody, there's
no reason why somebody who justturned just turned 18 or below
18 or period somebody period. Sojust be able to sit at home
order ar 15 A bunch of bodyarmor, and also the shit with no
background checks. And that notput up any red flags to anybody.

(31:24):
Yeah. Like somebody should bechecking these things out. Like
if barmston at home. And I orderAR whatever other stuff. That's
believe somebody's gonna beknocking on my door. So

Genesis (31:38):
yeah, I mean, I don't want to dive too much into this
because I feel like this issomething that's probably meant
for a bigger episode. But Ithink I think just to throw my
opinion in there real quick whenyou start messing with it. But
that that's a slippery slopeinto losing a lot of other
things that might not beintended along with changing

(31:58):
some of some of that.

Sage (32:00):
Some of the Constitution and shit. Yeah, well, that's
fine. I mean, the amendmentsexist for a reason. Like the
right to bear arms cool. Whenthey came up with that, their
gun shot one bullet maybe everyfive minutes, maybe?

Genesis (32:16):
Well, it was also in combating, you know, government
overrule of the people.

Sage (32:21):
Cool. Pistols fine. You should not need a automatic
weapon. as just a regularfucking person you just don't
know.

Genesis (32:32):
Would you feel safer?
Having an AR in your home versusa pistol. Now I get a shotgun or
a shotgun.

Sage (32:42):
Shotgun. I didn't get any money. Well I won't be able to
hear shit for like a week, but

Genesis (32:52):
I've never fired a gun in my life by the way.

Sage (32:55):
I mean, don't get me wrong. I get it. They're fun. If
people will just stop all thebullshit about the Constitution.
Just admit like we like guns.
They're fun. I get it. They arefun. Like I've shot an automatic
weapons I've shot and shotgunsThey're fun. They're fun as
fuck. You get a weird sense ofpower for no goddamn reason.

Genesis (33:14):
I imagine I have to try it out just to see just to have
a better understanding of whatit is. I guess.

Sage (33:21):
Yeah, by you. There's tons of places you can go and just go
to like a firing range.

Genesis (33:26):
I'd want to go like extreme like go to Vegas and
like fire rocket launchers andshoot turrets out of a
helicopter

Sage (33:32):
was a lot of money. A lot of money. If you're

Genesis (33:35):
gonna do it you go vague, right?

Sage (33:37):
So hold on,

Genesis (33:38):
let me grab a tank.

Sage (33:41):
I'm waiting for the day somebody just has a tank parked
in their fucking front lawn.

Genesis (33:47):
Like the technology the technology and manufacturing
processes probably make itcommercial. At some point like
Elon Musk he made flame toursfor sale. Hey, you

Sage (33:57):
can get fined lowered or clear to clear your snow in the
winter that's the most badassway to shovel snow.

Genesis (34:07):
You can fuck yeah. Just melt the shit. Yeah, let's go.
So well. Before we get away frommass hysteria, though, I might
as well just let's talk aboutsome of the ones I pulled up
here. Some crazy ones that Ifound throughout history. And
just this this this one righthere. The meowing nuns are you

(34:28):
familiar?

Sage (34:29):
The What?

Genesis (34:33):
Are you familiar with that story? them yelling nuns?
No, no, no. It's supposedly oneof the oldest known events of
mass yelling nuns. Yes, you arethat right? So apparently there
was these group of nuns. Andthey they lived in this was like

(34:58):
the Middle Ages. So they Helived like pretty strict. In
their in their daily duties,they were isolated away from
society. So you could see howmaybe they could break into what
was going to happen next.
Apparently one of the nuns juststarted meowing like a cat. And

(35:21):
then somehow that led into allof the nuns to just meow like a
cat for several hours every dayand it became like a practice
that they were doing they justall me out.

Sage (35:42):
At no point did anybody think to maybe put her down?

Genesis (35:48):
Like if she was possessed, I mean,

Sage (35:51):
he just started mowing for no goddamn reason. Like, you
gotta go.

Genesis (35:56):
Well, they that's kind of what ended up happening and
how they because people startedgetting worried about this shit.
And so they sent soldiers thereto basically whip them until
that stopped. And

Sage (36:13):
that's a bit extreme.

Genesis (36:15):
It works.

Sage (36:16):
I mean, I would I would hope so.

Genesis (36:20):
So, yeah, them yelling nuns.

Sage (36:25):
What What country was

Genesis (36:28):
this was where was this at? I forget what where this was
that was this. Oh, shit. I don'tknow. I don't know where this
was.

Sage (36:40):
Sounds like some Slovakian shit. I don't know why.

Genesis (36:44):
Oh, French. Yeah, it was in France. In France. Meow,
meow meow.

Sage (36:54):
Just every day, just randomly

Genesis (36:56):
for several hours, like they wouldn't stop.

Sage (37:00):
And I bet you probably say what God told me to do.

Genesis (37:04):
And maybe that would be a good excuse. I mean, the
Egyptians worship cats likemaybe. I mean, cats have very
religious historicalsignificance. Yeah.

Sage (37:17):
That's, you know, having a cat around and treating cat and
not trying to be a cat.

Genesis (37:23):
It was the very first Ferrari
the next one's a little earlierin are a little later in
history. This is in the 60s.
It's the Tanzania laughterepidemic of 1962.

Sage (37:43):
Laughing

Genesis (37:44):
epidemic laughing epidemic.

Sage (37:48):
How was that? Okay,

Genesis (37:50):
this just sounds crazy.
So, apparently, in. In someschool in Tanzania. Some, these
three girls just startedlaughing. I don't know if they
told a joke or something. Andthey just couldn't stop
laughing. But that spreadsomehow too much of the students

(38:14):
there. So where they had to shutdown the school. Because they
were fainting. They saidbreathing problems rashes,
crying fits. 95 of the 150students had been affected. Not
only that, it will lead into theparents of these students who

(38:40):
then also had these laughingfits. So this got up to like 220
people in the entire village.
were laughing. And then nearbyschools this started happening.
We're just uncontrollablelaughing fits of laughter

Sage (39:05):
sounds like there was a nitrous leak somewhere.

Genesis (39:08):
Could be right. That'd be a weird explanation for it,
right?

Sage (39:12):
I mean, it'd be logical one. But at laughing epidemic. I
would never have thought to putthose two words together.

Genesis (39:22):
Mass hysteria like what is the shit? What is going on in
our brain and our body that likeevolutionarily speaking, what
would be the purpose of thisbeing built into us? I don't
know. It's hard to think of likewhat's the what could be
important or gain out ofsomething like that?

Sage (39:41):
Survival?

Genesis (39:43):
How like,

Sage (39:45):
you don't want to go against your tribe. Like you
don't want to be the one the onestand out on your tribe, because
then that's when they turnagainst you. So survival kicks
in.

Genesis (39:56):
Yeah, but it's not like like, you know, like when people
like, have gay reflex fromsomebody else puking next to
them. Yeah, that's like, becauseback in the caveman days, they,
you know, if you ate somethingyou started puking, like it was
important that the rest of thegroup threw up as well, because
they kind of ate some poisonousthat would get them all sick and
die. So that's why we have thatgag reflex when you see somebody

(40:19):
else puking next to you, butlike this, I don't know if I see
how this is saving lives.

Sage (40:27):
It's not real it is. And it isn't. Because like I said,
it's it's the whole you need tobe a part of your tribe.

Genesis (40:34):
So be Solon. Like, the lemming effect is kind of good
for us.

Sage (40:40):
It has to be something very primal. Because in those
instances, you don't want to bethe standout. Like look at look
at the movie The mist.

Genesis (40:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sage (40:52):
Yeah. When they were in the fucking thing. The lady
started talking about Jesus andeverybody and got everybody on
her side. Except for those threepeople. And what did they do?
Start murdering them?

Genesis (41:06):
There is some some truth to being safety in being
part of the group, right? Yeah.
I get that. And you know, it's Ijust gotta say, it's nice to
really have a conversation abouta movie without being
interrupted by never seen that.

Sage (41:22):
I'm pretty sure you can't even spill the mist

Genesis (41:26):
with an eye or a why I played the game. Part of it. I
google the ending,

Sage (41:33):
though, when he was texting us all day today saying
oh, so I'm watching EVO daymight be came out at three. You
just watched it. You send us amessage like we're supposed to
be happy for you like to loseOh.

Genesis (41:54):
Okay, so I got the next one here. This one's 1997.

Sage (41:59):
On panic, wait, there was a panic?

Genesis (42:03):
Yeah, this one. I gotta look more into this because it
sounds nuts. So December 16. Mybirthday in 97. There was an
episode of Pokeyman that airedin Japan. during that episode,
when a pika choose electricattacks, did a series of like

(42:24):
flashing lights as it was likelightning and all that. And so
within the episodes airing, over600 children went into to the
hospital with symptoms ofepilepsy. So like seizures and
all that stuff. What happenedwas, the news took hold of this

(42:49):
situation, and then replayed itthe sequence that caused even
more kids to fall sick to thisscene. And so they estimated
that over 12,000 Kids got sickwith symptoms of epilepsy.

Sage (43:10):
To be fair, though, I mean, being epileptic is one of
those things you don't know whento you know, I'm not I guess
that's kind of why they have allthe warnings now. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, those could have been12,000 kids who just didn't know
they were epileptic?

Genesis (43:29):
Well. So out of the 12,000 kids, it says only a
relatively small number of thekids actually had genuine
photosensitive epilepsyseizures. And that the great
majority were victims of masshysteria,

Sage (43:44):
but they all had legit documented seizures.

Genesis (43:49):
Like they had symptoms of epilepsy. So they had
seizures, headaches, nausea,vomiting, like whole, like gamut
of things.

Sage (44:00):
Maybe they just didn't want to go to school. They want
to go and try to catch them all.

Genesis (44:05):
That, but I think like, because the first instance was
it said, said over 600 childrenentered the hospital with
seizures. So maybe that firstgroup had actual but when the
news aired it, that's when thethe numbers skyrocketed. And
they replayed the sequence andthen kids, I don't know, maybe
somehow, like, grasped on to thefact of how widespread it was.

Sage (44:28):
That's weird. I mean, don't get me wrong, even as an
adult. There are like certaincertain games or movies I watch
where they start flashing andstuff a lot. And sometimes I'll
feel a little bit uncomfortable.
But then it passes. I mean,that's, I think that's just how
it is.

Genesis (44:46):
I think so too, but I also like think that I like put
it in my head like it's aplacebo thing. Like I read it
and then like I sometimes feellike I wouldn't have felt this
way if I didn't get warned thatit was going to happen,

Sage (44:58):
I guess. I guess I can see that? Because like, what was
that? What's a Sonic Unleashed acame with a warning?

Genesis (45:07):
Pretty much all Xanax do

Sage (45:09):
I remember this one specifically, they were super
worried about it. I think it wasunleashed. I remember reading
that. And I was like, I'm notsure if we're gonna play this.
But I think because I mean,like, it's it's one of those
things like you don't know untilyou know, and I don't, I'm not
really trying to find out,right?

Genesis (45:26):
There's like those YouTube videos, too. There's
like the ones that are like howto do lucid dreaming, like, and
then there's like, the ones thatlike fall asleep instantly. To
this. I'm like, I'm not watchingeither of these because, like, I
don't want that to happenwithout like warning. Yeah.

Sage (45:44):
But yeah, that's, that's interesting. I might have to
look into that, though. Just tosee. I'm curious. I'm curious
now, like, 1200 people, 1200cases?

Genesis (45:56):
Yeah. And I mean, this is, like, Please, look further
into each of these cases. Moresothan just the the headlines of
what we're talking about here.

Sage (46:05):
Now, could it also be and alert? What I'm about to say
could be construed as slightlyracist.

Genesis (46:15):
Okay, fair warning.

Sage (46:18):
But could it be because Japanese, they have smaller
their eyes open smaller thanours? So the light was more
focused.

Genesis (46:28):
I mean, that sounds biologically logical. Maybe?

Sage (46:35):
I mean, it didn't have enough surface. It didn't have
the surface area because it hasa wider. Yeah. So it didn't have
the same surface area, so theyget more of a concentrated blast
of it, then let's say wenormally would,

Genesis (46:47):
right, and like what happened when that episode aired
in any other country? Like, Idon't know. I think it was years
later that it came to America,right? Pokeyman

Sage (46:56):
Pokeyman was out here. 97.
Okay. No, oh, 9898 97. Somewherearound there.

Genesis (47:05):
Well, there it could also be you have you ever heard
of the 100th Monkey effect

Sage (47:11):
is pulling out to ask now, but

Genesis (47:16):
I'm not this is so the 100th Monkey effect is a case
that supposedly shows evidenceof the collective consciousness.
And I'm sure you can understandwhat that means is that we are
all collectively connected. Inour consciousness. We are the

(47:37):
Borg. We are the Borg. So the100th Monkey effect is this
study they did on these monkeysin Japan as well. And funny
enough, guess what the islandthat these monkeys lived on was
called

Sage (47:57):
feel like it's gonna be racist. So

Genesis (48:00):
why do you feel like it's just,

Sage (48:02):
I'm gonna go with the Island of Dr. Monroe.

Genesis (48:06):
It's not bad. Totally going a different route. But
this was the island of Kojima.

Sage (48:12):
Oh my god.

Genesis (48:16):
No bullshit, the island of Kojima.

Sage (48:19):
And of course, he's not here right now. Right. There's
an issue

Genesis (48:29):
so So what happened here on this island, so there
was these monkeys, thescientists were studying. And
what they did was, for otherreasons, they were like, they
were throwing them sweetpotatoes. Just to feed them or
whatever, do whatever they'redoing. But what they noticed is,
eventually I

Sage (48:46):
shouldn't say racist, Santa's more more racist.

Genesis (48:52):
It's only racist, because you're making it races,

Sage (48:55):
more and more racist will continue.

Genesis (48:59):
So what they did was, they were tossing them these
these sweet potatoes and otherfoods and stuff. But they found
that this one monkey ended uptaking one of the sweet potatoes
that are found in the sand, andit took it to the water. And it
washed it off in the sand,right, and cleaned it off,
cleaned off the sweet potato andate it. And then what they

(49:23):
noticed is that monkey startedteaching all the other monkeys
to do that as well. So thisgroup of monkeys all started
washing their sweet potatoes inthe sand every time they they
threw them the sweet potatoes.
Now, here's where it gets crazy,is that they report that they
started seeing monkeys. Not evenon this island. Start doing the

(49:51):
same thing out of nowhere,washing their sweet potatoes
that they were Studyingsomewhere else. Study after a
certain point, the 100th Monkeyis when the clicks to the group
consciousness. And it's theshared experience that is now
through all of them.

Sage (50:15):
Yeah, no, I don't know, that makes absolutely no sense.

Genesis (50:20):
You don't think we have a collective consciousness that
we could tap into?

Sage (50:24):
I mean, okay, maybe, maybe we could, because our brains are
way more developed, but amonkey. Nine times out of 10
they go based on instinct. I'mpretty sure that the other
monkeys on that island onlylistened to him because he was
considered an alpha. So they sawhim do something. So then they

(50:46):
did it.

Genesis (50:46):
Yeah, that makes sense.
They're monkeys. You do likehe's talking about but for it to
just start occurring.

Sage (50:53):
That's the that's the weird part. That's the weird
part. I think. I think somebodyin Japan just lying.

Genesis (50:59):
Could be that. This was this took place in the 50s Some
people say that, you know, oneof the monkeys swam, but the
thing is, these monkeys don'tknow how to swim. But who knows?
How the monkey built the boat.
Monkey about Yeah. To teach theother monkeys to wash their
food. Yeah.

Sage (51:20):
He's like, keeping this one in my back pocket. But this
knowledge must get out.

Genesis (51:25):
We somehow missed the whole building of the boat part.
Just saw the after.

Sage (51:32):
Didn't want them to know if they were too smart.

Genesis (51:35):
But wouldn't wouldn't group consciousness like, be
kind of an explanation for whatwe're talking about? This whole
entire episode? No. See that?

Sage (51:44):
That will make sense for all the monkeys on the island?
For the monkeys outside of theisland? That makes absolutely no
sense.

Genesis (51:53):
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things that tried to
debunk this, obviously. But it'skind of an interesting thing had
if it were to be somethingplausible. And that we just
can't study it beyond what wejust observe. Because we don't
know what the consciousness is.
tuned into our consciousnesswhat is consciousness episode?
No. Wow.

Sage (52:17):
Can you finish the sentence without doing a plug?

Genesis (52:20):
You got to

Sage (52:24):
that's weird. But there's if monkeys can do it then why
can't dolphins because dolphinsare smart way smarter than
monkeys. But who knows whatdolphins do they mean they in
the ocean? And as we know I'mterrified of the ocean
apparently. So

Genesis (52:40):
well, with like the turtles in the ocean. Like they
there's like this. The way theytravel across the world like the
sea turtles.

Sage (52:47):
Yeah, they traveled through like currents and shit,
right? Yeah, but

Genesis (52:51):
we don't know how they like know to navigate these
things.

Sage (52:56):
I think they just follow one person. Like, they have a
collective conscious and only noconscious will be the word but
like, just like a wolf pack.
They they follow the leader.
Yeah, he goes, that's where theygo. How now how the leader found
out that's the interesting part.

Genesis (53:14):
Well, it would be like, you know, that leader was once
the baby of a group. Yeah,leader. But where does it start?

Sage (53:21):
Yeah, I'm saying it that starts somewhere. What turtles
like you know what, this will beway easier.

Genesis (53:27):
Let's evolution right there. That's purely evolution,
somehow somebody on accident?
Maybe. I mean, it's the only wayI could think of an accident.
And then that's what takes over.
Over time over time, you know,

Sage (53:41):
that makes way more sense.
Then, whoever found out that wecould drink cow milk.

Genesis (53:51):
purely accidental,

Sage (53:52):
that was a sick sick individual. was putting in a
sane asylum. Shortly after that.
Can you imagine that? You'd liketo hear me out? But you did
what?

Genesis (54:04):
I don't think it's that far of a leap though. Because
you think we drink milk fromanother person's Teddy? So why
not try and other animals Teddy?

Sage (54:14):
Why would that be your thought? I mean, that sounds
it's rational. Some way now, butto be the first guy be like, You
know what, I want to suck thatcows. Like what?

Genesis (54:25):
I don't I feel like you're you're as a child or
like, like, say you're the firstguy that's like thinking through
this. Like, okay, my my newbornis growing from this milk, his
mother's producing, but it'sonly during this period of time.
So how can we capitalize andlike get some more that well,

(54:46):
let's try this animal over here.
That's always producing it.

Sage (54:50):
No. And that's another thing. How did they know that
was producing it? Because theydon't just do it. You got to go
over there and actually, youknow, like squeezed teats and to

Genesis (55:01):
well, maybe I don't know. Maybe they were raising
cattle eating first somebody

Sage (55:07):
was over there trying to fuck a cow. That's what it was.
That's what it had to be. That'swhat it had to be. There is no
way just do was not trying tohit it on with this cow.

Genesis (55:18):
So not only was the fucking the cow, he also was
like well let me just suck onyour nipple.

Sage (55:24):
Yeah, I mean like no this is here. You won't care.

Genesis (55:28):
I nibbles. Wow, it was

Sage (55:31):
it was a disturbed individual.

Genesis (55:35):
Have you ever removed a cow sage?

Sage (55:37):
No, I've seen I've seen what's tons of videos on it.

Genesis (55:39):
I've done it. I would like to try it though.

Sage (55:44):
I'm not sure I want to try it.

Genesis (55:47):
But do you drink pure cow milk?

Sage (55:50):
I don't drink milk now. So I'm gonna go with no,

Genesis (55:52):
yeah, I don't want you there. Don't worry you and I
will be like sitting on thelittle like the four post wooden
stool. As we just grab a teatand I like playfully squirt one
into your face. And

Sage (56:06):
you just made it way weird way we're nobodies? No,

Genesis (56:12):
no, that's not how, you know.

Sage (56:15):
Isn't that going down even a little bit?

Genesis (56:18):
We have different views of reality.

Sage (56:21):
Reality fiction? I mean,

Genesis (56:24):
can you just connect to my consciousness for once? And
see things the way I do?

Sage (56:29):
And that's a scary scary place.

Genesis (56:32):
Yeah. I don't know. I could have been the first guy to
discover calm okay. I don'tknow. You you

Sage (56:39):
think could have been just out there down bad one day,
though little mark June don'twant to get you know more. So
you just looking at that cow?
Like, yeah,

Genesis (56:51):
look at that. Look at that wrong. Got

Sage (56:53):
it gotta be good, right?

Genesis (56:56):
We go back to reality,

Sage (57:01):
this was reality. 2% happened.

Genesis (57:07):
So, okay, talking about the group effect a little bit
more. And I was trying to thinkof some things that like I do
that not are not not necessarilyas important as like, getting
pulled into politics or fashionor stuff. But some of the things
that I do, I'm curious if you dothese as well. And I'm hoping

(57:28):
you'll be honest, in this, inthat you said you don't give a
fuck about anything. So youmight as well be honest, right?

Sage (57:36):
What do you want to ask me?

Genesis (57:37):
So have you ever been in a situation where somebody is
taking you? Let's just say to arestaurant that has food that
you've never had before? Andit's eaten in a certain way? Do
you ever feel like thatuncomfortable feeling and like

(57:58):
not knowing what to do or how toeat or even how to order some
things? And you kind of wait tosee how others around you do
that? Like, if you ever atesushi, maybe,

Sage (58:11):
I guess I guess not in a restaurant setting. But I get
what you're saying. I don't knowif I've ever felt uncomfortable
about it. Because I've maybeI've always been a frontline.
Oh, yeah. I've never had thatbefore. So yeah, my look like
the first time I had Africanfood. It's like one of my
favorite things is Fufu. Uh huh.
And it's Nigerian food. Where ifI'm not African, but um, you

(58:35):
have to eat it what your handsdid know that. So yeah, I'm
sitting at a restaurant, me andthe guy who took me there. And
they bring out a bowl with thesetowels. I'm like, What the fuck
was to do with this? So he juststarted washing his hands and it
was like, okay, so you wash yourhands at the table. I didn't

(58:57):
think none of it. So I'm washingmy hands with it.

Genesis (59:02):
Just mimicking him.
Now.

Sage (59:04):
I was just looking at it first, like okay, so I wash my
hands didn't think anythingabout it. And food comes out and
I'm noticing I'm gonna fork oranything. Then he just starts
grabbing it. I'm like, that'swhat we do it. I'm like, All
right. This seems unbelievablyunsanitary. But I guess when in

(59:24):
Rome. Was it good? Yes.
Delicious.

Genesis (59:29):
What is foo foo?

Sage (59:31):
Foo Foo was a dough. But you eat that with what's the
name of the fucking Oh, is

Genesis (59:37):
that where you grab it and you wrap it in like grabbing
other fillings almost.

Sage (59:43):
You dip it into this, like the soup or whatever. I forget
the name of the fucking soup.
But it's very good.

Genesis (59:50):
Yeah, there's this Ethiopian restaurant near me
that I've been wanting to tryand I know it's it's I know
you're supposed to eat it thatway as well. But I feel like
there There's lots of foods thatI look up that I'm like how the
fuck do you properly eat thisthing because I don't know what
to do. And even like, the firsttime eating at a Japanese

(01:00:12):
restaurant even like the thewhat is it the miso soup? Yeah.
Like how are you supposed to eatthat? Like, okay, I'm just
seeing people like pick up theentire cup and just slurp on it.
And no spoon or nothing likethat and like, oh shit. I don't
want to embarrass myself.

Sage (01:00:28):
See, because I watch so much freaking anime. Like first
time I ate sushi. It was pretty.
It was like I knew how to eat.
Yeah, but turn to come to findout. Apparently sushi. You're
not supposed to be usingchopsticks to finger food.

Genesis (01:00:43):
Oh, really? Yeah, I

Sage (01:00:45):
didn't know that. I mean, it makes sense.

Genesis (01:00:49):
But yeah, it just makes sense. I know. You're not
supposed to bite it either. It'ssupposed to it's one. Yeah,

Sage (01:00:54):
yeah, just one bite.
Strangely enough, we had thisargument last week at work.
Because we had what are theycalled? Tamales. Yeah. And some
people eating tamales with afork and knife. Other people
were just buying it. And they'relike, I've never ate it.
Somebody just Biden. It waslike, Well, it's a fucking

(01:01:15):
finger food. It's like, oh, no,it's not. So then that brought
up the whole argument. So ofcourse, we had to bring in the
Hispanics into the conversation.
And they agree with us like it'sa finger foods. Like, just like,
like chicken wings. Like I knowpeople who eat chicken wings
with knife and fork and I wantto stab him.

Genesis (01:01:36):
Yeah, that's that's a little ridiculous. But you've
certainly you've shown me sometricks on eating chicken wings,
though. Where you just you caneat a whole wing in one bite.
Like holy shit. That'simpressive. Like not the drums
the flats, the flats? Yeah.

Sage (01:01:53):
So how to tell people on black without telling them on
black?

Genesis (01:01:59):
I was I was just gonna say more so that you're savage
that you should see this manyflats

Sage (01:02:06):
not even my favorite. I like legs more what Trump's six
more, but I effect.

Genesis (01:02:11):
Yeah. And it looks like you are in a post apocalyptic
society feasting on Rick. Theway you're down in that flat is
just as brutal and he sucksmarijuana the bones to like?

Sage (01:02:24):
It's delicious. First and foremost. And nothing wrong with
a bone marrow in certaincountries is considered a
delicacy.

Genesis (01:02:33):
Yep, sure is. That pink shirt is on a sushi like
platter.

Sage (01:02:40):
What's the specifics? No, no, no, no, no.

Genesis (01:02:43):
The thing that comes alongside the wasabi Oh, the

Sage (01:02:46):
ginger. Sure. Yes, Ginger's palate cleanser.

Genesis (01:02:52):
And what are you supposed to do with it?

Sage (01:02:54):
Like you suck on it and between switching types of sushi
so you're not supposed toactually eat it now you just
suck on it to clean your tocleanse your palate then you so
you can taste the new sushi thatyou got.

Genesis (01:03:06):
And then do spit it out? Yeah,

Sage (01:03:08):
I mean, I guess you could eat it as mean it's just ginger
but

Genesis (01:03:11):
that's mostly I mean appropriate to spit something
out if you're at a table withpeople eating

Sage (01:03:20):
I mean, you're not gonna you're not sitting here hacking
up a loogie you're sucking on ittaking it out your mouth and
putting it back on your plateit's not that serious of
situation.

Genesis (01:03:36):
Yeah, I don't know I guess I get anxiety about or
like eating with strangers ingeneral or eating with like
extended family or yoursignificant others family and
you're like trying to just fitin in some ways. So I don't know
I often get anxiety likeespecially with foods or like

(01:03:58):
just

Sage (01:03:59):
think you might just be stuck on like old etiquette
types of like, you know, thewhole you have your salad fork
right before your soup spoon andyeah, no elbows on the table and
all this other stuff. I'm likeAaron care we're here to eat.
I'm not here. Not here to talkpolitics or anything we're to

(01:04:20):
eat and leave. However I getdown should not affect what
you're doing.

Genesis (01:04:26):
But there's also like the better ways like eating like
crawfish or whole shrimp. Let'ssay at a Cajun restaurant to
like there's there's techniquesto go about something that you
might not know until you'reunless you're with people that
do it and you kind of have toyou have to rely on the group
mentality there unless you justflat out ask but sometimes it's

(01:04:47):
hard to do.

Sage (01:04:49):
Now there's certain foods you have to like I definitely
did not eat crab legs first. Imean, shrimp I don't care I just
eat till I got time to sit hereand eat Do I bullshit. I mean
everything.

Genesis (01:05:03):
Well, I'm gonna nickname you. Dangerously anal.
Was that same dangerous thing?
Because that's your body's notdigesting that shrimp tail
that's coming out whole.

Sage (01:05:15):
I've been doing it for years. No problems.

Genesis (01:05:17):
Do you like swallow rocks to help grind it down to
before you trim?

Sage (01:05:22):
No, no, I don't know, but my stomach is probably good.
Because never I eat likecartilage and shade too.

Genesis (01:05:30):
Okay, yeah. So you definitely are swallowing rafts
that help aid your digestion.

Sage (01:05:36):
Cartilage is delicious. I would try it. Some chicken.
Little little white cap rightapart, right? No,

Genesis (01:05:45):
I don't like that. Oh, the bone.

Sage (01:05:47):
Yeah, cartilage is delicious. No.

Genesis (01:05:51):
I like a lot of people don't eat the fat. I'm like
steaks. Like that's the bestpart. That's the

Sage (01:05:55):
waste of a steak. That's where all your fucking flavor
comes from.

Genesis (01:05:59):
flavor it especially when it's all melty to yum yum,
yum, yum. Yummy.

Sage (01:06:03):
I think you need to actually go out and try legit
bone marrow like you can orderit offline. Oh, yeah, I

Genesis (01:06:08):
would try it. Yes.

Sage (01:06:09):
It's like butter.

Genesis (01:06:11):
Yeah, well, if there isn't, don't they make bone
marrow butter?

Sage (01:06:15):
I don't know if they make bone marrow but Well, they
probably do probably do

Genesis (01:06:18):
it because I thought I've seen some things where they
Yeah, you spread it around likecrackers and shit.

Sage (01:06:23):
Yeah, you can just get just go hand by the regular bone
marrow. And it comes still inthe fucking bone. But you get to
like soak it in saltwater andstuff to get all the blood out
for like a couple hours. Thenonce you do that, you just start
some season on that shit androast it until this like liquefy
and just put that on some ptosisdelicious

Genesis (01:06:43):
cheese. So how do you extract it from the bone? Just
like a butter

Sage (01:06:47):
knife because it's become super soft like butter.

Genesis (01:06:50):
Oh, do you like you scrape it out from the bone?

Sage (01:06:53):
Yeah, cuz it's the bone is halved so it's already Oh, I

Genesis (01:06:58):
see. Okay. Interesting

Sage (01:07:03):
delicious.

Genesis (01:07:06):
Not playful,

Sage (01:07:07):
not delightful about saying that delightful, just
delicious.

Genesis (01:07:12):
Ah, let's see what else I got here. I got some
experience. Have you seen someof those experiments, those
social experiments where theythey fuck with people in in sort
of the great mentalityexperiment number one they had
they had a line of chairs andpeople were coming in for
something other than what theywere actually doing. But the

(01:07:34):
first person in the chair everytime a bell rang that person
this person was in on theexperiment. So every time the
bell rang, this person wasfilling out paperwork or
whatever would stand up when thebell rang and would continue
filling out paperwork. The bellwould ring again like two
minutes later, they would sitback down. So this was like the

(01:07:56):
setup for the experiment. Thenthey brought in people that were
not in the experiment they wouldset the you know they would go
down the line of chairs sit nextto that person the bell would
ring person would get up thatwould rain person will get down
to the actual candidate may ormay not join in but more and
more people that would come ineventually. By like the fourth

(01:08:19):
person. Now everybody's standingup and sitting. Every time this
bell rings, wanting chairsfilled with people.

Sage (01:08:28):
So you're telling me they Pavlov's dogs. A bunch of people
explain that. The Pavlov's dogsays where they every he trained
dogs to he did an experimentwhere whenever he rang a bell
the dog knew it was time to eat.
And at first he didn't know butthe more and more he did it then

(01:08:50):
he just became you know, becamesecond nature. So now all the
other dogs around him alsopicked up on that and did it
too.

Genesis (01:09:01):
Ah, so yeah, that's, that sounds like the monkey shit
kind of right.

Sage (01:09:05):
Is Pavlov's dogs. Okay, they actually use that on real
people.

Genesis (01:09:12):
Basically. Well, yeah.
I mean, that's that's likepositive reinforcement. You get
a treat you do like aftersomething then you can replicate
it. I mean, that's how I trainedMarley to do a lot of things was

Sage (01:09:26):
treating it like Schrodinger cat.

Genesis (01:09:31):
Is it alive? Or is it not?

Sage (01:09:33):
I hate the damn thing because I don't know what to
answer and there's not onefucking sucks. That's the whole
point behind it. Yeah, to justpiss people off for ages.

Genesis (01:09:47):
Yeah. Well, it's an explanation, an explanation for
multiverse theory to shortenerscats pretty dope.

Sage (01:09:57):
But that's like one of those is just an either one of
those questions like, like,which came first the chicken or
the egg? Like, you can look uptons of articles that that will
defend either side.

Genesis (01:10:12):
I think with shorting read to like he wouldn't, that
wasn't even his thing. Like hewas trying to prove something
else. And then came across this.
And then scientists later cameback and made this like,
fundamental thing out of whathis like research paper was. And
he was just like, kind of like,well, what the fuck that was?

Sage (01:10:37):
Like, okay, but did you see what I was talking about
over here. But we want to giveyou a word for this cool, cool,
cool, but um, about this.

Genesis (01:10:48):
There was a another experiment, this was a, this was
on Candid Camera, they did this.
And so they had this is likethis. This experiment grew a lot
into the like social psychologyof like group behavior or herd
behavior. Because what they didwas, they had a bunch of people
in an elevator, but they werefacing backwards. So like, when

(01:11:11):
the doors open, all you see wasa bunch of people's backs. And
what they would do is they wouldhave this elevator, you know,
going in motion or whatever,with all these people in there
backwards, right? And so like,the mark would come in, and see
everybody's standing backwards.
So what do you think the personwould do? What would you do?

Sage (01:11:36):
One I wouldn't get on damn elevators. And that's, I want to
get on an elevator. If this wasan elevator that I knew. If this
wasn't an elevator that I knew Iwould get on it, because they do
have elevators that open on bothsides. So maybe I would, that
would be my other thought, like,oh, maybe this one opens on that

(01:11:56):
side for the next one. So that'swhy everybody's looking at that
way.

Genesis (01:12:00):
That's again, logical.
So you would you would vie thatthe group knew what they were
doing, and just proceed alongthe same way they were doing it.

Sage (01:12:16):
Once the door opened up, but I do what the fuck we are
looking at. Like, I would haveto say something. I'm not just
about to get off to get off theelevator. Oh, normal, like, oh,
fuck you.

Genesis (01:12:28):
Your independence, I think is less than the norm of
humanity. So it's interestinghow, how you are not pulled into
the bandwagon effect of a lot ofthese things. And I think that's
good, though. I think that isgood. I mean, I've, I think I
display a lot of group behaviortendencies and a lot of ways but

(01:12:50):
there are some things that Istay away from because I'm
cognizant of the bandwagonthat's going on, especially with
the social media stuff that wetalked about, a lot of that I
stay away from, or at least Idon't fall into the trap as
easily.

Sage (01:13:09):
Yeah. It's more so for me, and this is just for like, the
social media aspect of it. Iknow me, so I know. I have a
very addictive personality. Soif I, if I get on something and
I know it's, it's entertainingor it's good, or something that
that I like I'm not gonna beable to stop. Like with tick

(01:13:32):
tock like I refuse to put ticksback on my phone for ever. And I
know this because when I hadvine, I lost my life. Yeah, I
was. Vine was a rabbit holeinside of another rabbit hole.

Genesis (01:13:48):
They have ads on Tik Tok. Now it's like stop
scrolling. Go take a break. Youknow like the Nintendo games
like yeah, take a break.

Sage (01:13:56):
Like I'll tell me how to live my life All right.

Genesis (01:13:59):
Are you still watching?
Yeah, that

Sage (01:14:03):
was the most condescending and question Netflix has ever
asked me in my entire life areyou still watching yes bitch you
know the shells have beenstopped doing it making me feel
like I need to go out and dosomething.

Genesis (01:14:19):
I just want to sit here and eat ice cream off my belly
and watch this 30th episode ofliving abroad or whatever the
fuck

Sage (01:14:30):
but it's funny you say that whole social experiment
thing cuz I forget the name ofthe show thing was called like,
what would you do or some sortof like that? But this um, I
think was like CBS maybe ABCwhere they would purposely set
up like these situations towhere everybody be actors,
whatever, and then would haveunsuspecting like bystanders

(01:14:54):
whatever, just come walking in.
And some fucked up would happenin front of them. And then they
wouldn't Want to gauge to seehow that person reacts like when
they jump in and do somethingwith that person? Yeah.

Genesis (01:15:06):
Oh, those are so horrible too. Because like
imagine being the person and youkind of do the wrong thing and
you just going off of instinct.
And I know everybody like, knowsyour reaction.

Sage (01:15:17):
Now we know you're a shitty person. Cool.

Genesis (01:15:21):
There's a really good one on Netflix called the push.
Have you seen that? No, Ihaven't seen that. It's, it's
hosted by I think his name wasDarren Brown. He's a well known
like magician, hypnotist. He'sgot really dope, like standup
specials, because he doesn't doit in a way that he's like,
pretending that he's met like amagical person. Well, like, no,

(01:15:45):
but like, he's not like, givenyou the feeling that he has
powers. Your wizard Harry, yourwizard, Harry, you're a Harry
wizard. So like, he'll tell youthat this, like, he'll explain
to you why this thing ishappening to like, either some
psychological manner orwhatever. But this this
documentary, The push, theybuilt out, it's basically what

(01:16:08):
you're talking about with thisother show. But it was centered
around this one idea. Can theyget somebody to commit murder by
the end of this setup? What?
Yeah, yeah, it's fucking crazy.
So they do this whole setup,where somebody's helping out for
this charity event. And somebodydies of like a heart attack. But

(01:16:33):
then they make him like, like,either, like hide the body in
the meantime, because they needthis charity event to go well.
And by the end like they, whatit's centered around is the push
is because through all thisjourney, they end up on the roof
of this building, the guy neverdied, he's standing at the edge
of the, the, the edge of therooftop. And everybody around

(01:16:58):
this, the mark is in there, likeyou got to, we got to kill this
guy because of all the thingsthat have happened. And they try
to see if they can get a mark topush the guy off of the
building. And I won't revealwhat happens. But the results
are pretty fucked up.

Sage (01:17:15):
See that? That's a dangerous game to play. Yeah.
Because you don't know what'sgoing on in that person's life.
They could already be on theedge.

Genesis (01:17:25):
Well, it's well, yeah, and I definitely watch it.
Definitely watch it.

Sage (01:17:32):
Now, have you heard about the warrior gene?

Genesis (01:17:36):
Hmm, that sounds familiar, actually. But explain.

Sage (01:17:39):
It's they haven't done any, like controlled experiments
on it. But the original paperwas that this gene, like people
who have this gene, are moreprone to violent activity. Okay.
Like they did a small littlesubsets subsection of a test.

(01:18:02):
And I forget what the full nameof it is called. But the
nickname of it is the warriorgene. Look it up, you'll see
what I'm talking about. Like,it's pretty fascinating to see
like, it's in our DNA to be moreaggressive. And isn't that just
not nothing you can do about it?

Genesis (01:18:17):
That's, that's kind of scary to think about. Well, I
mean, like genes in general tolike, just shit that's built
into our DNA. That can be like,triggered by environmental
factors, societal factors,everything. I mean, this warrior
gene like, what? What causesthat to go into action? You just

(01:18:39):
road rage? Like, is thattriggered from the scene? You
know,

Sage (01:18:42):
I mean, war Wait, road rage? Could 100% be a trigger,
like you see people just go andshoot somebody because of road
rage, I might just just drivepast them. Like, you've not to
ruin your entire life. Becausesomebody cuts you off on a
highway. It's not that serious.

Genesis (01:19:04):
That that exists. You know, like, how are we ever
supposed to like, really evolveas a species, you know, with
that shit lingering in us, withmass hysteria lingering in us?

Sage (01:19:17):
Well, I think that that, that that gene is a part of
evolution, because we needed itback in the day to survive.

Genesis (01:19:26):
Sure, but like, that wouldn't naturally. There's no
natural thing that would removethat from our genetics.

Sage (01:19:33):
No, it would just it would just die out generation after
generation slowly.

Genesis (01:19:38):
I don't know. Usually it's it dies out when the
species dies out containing thatthings. So like, when you think
of like evolution, the thingsthat stay is because that thing
survived and the other thingthat wasn't working or part of
that species died off, usuallysome form of mutation branches

(01:20:01):
that now carries the speciesforward and the other traits
stay behind. But there's nothingthat's going to stop our
genetics from saying like, Oh,we don't need that. Making it.
Are you

Sage (01:20:10):
sure? Because I swear, isn't there like more and more
people that are being born?
Where their pinky toe doesn'thave that joint?

Genesis (01:20:18):
Well, yeah, yeah. From mutations. So like, we can still
survive with that. And then thatperson breeds.

Sage (01:20:25):
Yeah, but I mean, a mutation is nothing that
evolution that we haven'taccepted yet.

Genesis (01:20:31):
Yeah. But I don't see like something like a warrior
gene. At least it would take along time, I would say, or to
just get rid.

Sage (01:20:41):
Oh, yeah. In our society, yeah. Because everybody wants to
fight over the small shit.

Genesis (01:20:47):
So yeah, but like things like us losing hair on
our bodies and things like that.
I think we'll, we'll probably behairless eventually.

Sage (01:20:54):
Yeah, there's no real reason to have pubic hair
anymore. Because the whole Thewhole reason was to help keep
our bodies warm when it wascold. But you know,

Genesis (01:21:04):
we got I think the pubic hair contained a lot of
pheromones. We get goose

Sage (01:21:08):
downs now. thermal underwear, we got he we're good.
We're good.

Genesis (01:21:15):
Like, what's the point of an eyebrow? Like? Nothing,

Sage (01:21:18):
so your face doesn't look weird.

Genesis (01:21:24):
So we're keeping that one around

Sage (01:21:25):
that one? That one needs to stay? Yeah. And also if you
don't have eyebrows, how do Ihow am I supposed to know
exactly what emotion you haveright now?

Genesis (01:21:34):
We're just gonna paint them on.

Sage (01:21:37):
So everybody can just look surprised all the time.

Genesis (01:21:39):
Yeah. Oh, what if you'd like we had like somehow like
the you know that Rorschach fromWatchmen. But like it was built
into our skin and we could justhave like emoji faces whenever
we wanted.

Sage (01:21:51):
So you've been smoking weed

Genesis (01:21:58):
your your comments just took my brain there. Well walk

Sage (01:22:01):
around with fucking emoji face What the hell? That would
be the creepiest shit.

Genesis (01:22:07):
Again, it's shortcuts.
That's why our language ischanging to the short form.
We're taking opportunities toshortcut everything to make you
know something where we canprogress by making things
efficient. Things that we don'tneed our brain to really
calculate. So we take all theseshortcuts so we can progress
forward.

Sage (01:22:26):
And yet people still like to camp.

Genesis (01:22:29):
Tell him to camp. It's fun.

Sage (01:22:32):
But that goes against everything. You just said. We're
more efficient now. Yeah, butthere's no we have no need for
it anymore.

Genesis (01:22:38):
Well, the need is just joy.

Sage (01:22:41):
Right? No, no joy. No joy in sitting outside, having to
poop outside and get a shoveland bury my own poop. getting
crowded on by bugs and shake outto build

Genesis (01:22:54):
a fire to stay warm.
Drinking milk straight from thecow.

Sage (01:22:57):
We got we got electricity.
I don't pay X amount of moneyfor my house to go to sleep
outside.

Genesis (01:23:05):
I don't know I enjoy camping.

Sage (01:23:08):
I do not. Which is why you would never see me on episode
when animals attack.

Genesis (01:23:12):
I mean, you could be right though. Because like it's
been so long since I camped andthe idea of camping is only
thing that sounds fun. But likemy old Dad's going out there now
and being cold and like nothaving electric and no

Sage (01:23:23):
electric. If your phone dies, you're hooked. Right? Like
so my phone said. What are yougonna do tell ghost stories?

Genesis (01:23:32):
Then somehow some mass hysteria comes in our group.

Sage (01:23:37):
You only got music?
Because then that dies. So youliterally sit unless you got the
one guy with the fucking guitarbecause you always one. There's
always one.

Genesis (01:23:47):
Always the one. Didn't you want to learn guitar?

Sage (01:23:51):
I still do. But I hate the guy who shows up to the party
with the guitar. You're thatguy?

Genesis (01:23:56):
You're potentially going to be that guy.

Sage (01:24:00):
No, I would never be that guy. That guy. Like, why are you
here? Just go somewhere. We gotmusic.

Genesis (01:24:05):
I got a ukulele sitting on my Amazon wishlist right now.
But I want to learn how to play.
And I feel like that's that'snot a guy you ever want to be
either?

Sage (01:24:16):
I mean, maybe if you're Hawaii

Genesis (01:24:19):
it's just kind of really nice, soft sound to it.

Sage (01:24:24):
Yeah, you know, who else likes nice soft sounds animals?
So we're in the middle offucking

Genesis (01:24:31):
you you just bring a bear.

Sage (01:24:34):
He's gonna be like, What the fuck is that? Does that mean
I smell?

Genesis (01:24:40):
Take sage first?

Sage (01:24:41):
No, because yeah, take me first he will have to get on a
plane and figure out my addressknock on my door. Hope I answer
because I ain't gonna be animage.

Genesis (01:24:54):
Well, I've got one last thing on the subject that I
wanted to show or actually playfor you Uh, more so than
anything, I got a YouTube cliphere this TED talks, it's very
short. But it's describes theideas like how to start a
movement. And it talks about,like, the importance of, or

(01:25:15):
where the roles of leadershipkind of plays into it. And I
think this, this is high Marley.
This plays into mentalitythinking and like, kind of
dissecting how, how the roles inthe in the group mentality
plays. And it's kind of funnybecause it's just about a guy

(01:25:36):
dancing at a concert. So I'llkind of describe what's going on
in the video as you listen

Sage (01:25:44):
to it. I love watching people dance. It's quite
interesting. Yeah, and this

Genesis (01:25:49):
guy is pretty bad. So you can see what's going on
afterwards.

Unknown (01:26:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, at TED, we talk a lot about
leadership and how to make amovement. So let's watch a
movement happened start tofinish in under three minutes
and dissect some lessons fromit. First, of course, you know,
a leader needs the guts. So it's

Genesis (01:26:13):
just a lone guy right now he will dancing by himself.

Unknown (01:26:17):
But what he's doing is so easy to follow. So here's his
first follower with a crucialrole. He's going to show
everyone else how to follow.

Genesis (01:26:23):
So stop right there. So second guy runs up to the first
guy in this in this hill,dancing, he starts dancing with
them. And you notice the guygiving the speech right now, he
calls him the first follower.

Unknown (01:26:37):
Now notice that leader in first follower with a crucial
role, he's going to showeveryone else how to follow. Now
notice that the leader embraceshim as an equal. So now it's not
about the leader anymore. It'sabout them plural. There he is
calling to his friends. Now, ifyou notice that the first
follower is actually anunderestimated form of
leadership in itself, takes gutsto stand out like that. The

(01:26:59):
first follower is whattransforms a lone nut into a
leader.

Genesis (01:27:04):
See, that's a pretty cool statement right there. I
think that makes sense a lot ina lot of ways.

Sage (01:27:10):
I mean, it does make sense. It's a scary thought. But
yes, it makes sense. totallyscary. Think about how like
going back to Hitler, Ali cameinto power. Somebody has to be
the first one.

Genesis (01:27:22):
Right? Exactly. So it's not necessarily the leader.
That's important. I think it'smore so that first follower, who
plays the pivotal role instarting some sort of collective

Sage (01:27:34):
is very crucial. They have to be dumb enough to listen to
you. But not, but not dumbenough for other people to
listen to not listen to them.

Genesis (01:27:44):
Exactly.

Unknown (01:27:46):
First font leadership in itself takes guts to stand
out like that. The firstfollower is what transforms a
lone nut into a leader.
And here comes a secondfollower. Now it's not alone,
not It's not two nuts. Three isa crowd and must be public. It's

(01:28:10):
important to show not just theleader, but the followers
because you find that newfollowers emulate the followers,
not the leader. Now here come tomore people. And immediately
after three more people, nowwe've got momentum, this is the
tipping point. Now we've got amovement,

Genesis (01:28:26):
a whole crowd of people just dancing, notice,

Unknown (01:28:29):
people join in, it's less risky. So those that were
sitting on the fence before nowhave no reason not to, they
won't stand out. They won't beridiculed, but they will be part
of the in crowd if they hurry.
So

Genesis (01:28:42):
there's like tons of people running to be a part of
all of

Unknown (01:28:46):
the verb to stick with the crowd, because eventually
they would be ridiculed for notjoining in. And that's how you
make a movement. But let's recapsome lessons from this. So

Sage (01:28:57):
would that be? That'd be FOMO, though.

Genesis (01:29:00):
It is part? Yeah, yeah.
Like the tipping point is whereFOMO comes in. So not at the
start, but like once you oncethere's a threshold, a certain
tipping point, then FOMO kicksin, then you're watching this
and now you're having the fearof missing out, which also I
think we didn't really talkabout FOMO a lot. But I think
that is a huge role in the inthe group thinking

Unknown (01:29:23):
like the shirtless dancing guy, that alone.
Remember the importance ofnurturing your first few
followers as equals. So it'sclearly about the movement, not
you. Okay, but we might havemissed the real lesson here. The
biggest lesson, if you noticed,did you catch it is that
leadership is over glorified.
That yes, it was the shirtlessguy was first and he'll get all

(01:29:44):
the credit. But it was reallythe first follower that
transformed the lone nut into aleader. So as we're told that we
should all be leaders, thatwould be really ineffective. If
you really care about starting amovement, have the courage to
follow and to show others how tofollow, and when you find a lone
nut doing something great. havethe guts to be the first one to
stand up and join in. And what aperfect place to do that. Ted,

(01:30:08):
thanks. Do you buy it?

Sage (01:30:13):
I mean, it makes sense. It makes a whole lot of sense.
Because nobody Yeah, I mean, ifhe just dancing there by itself,
everybody's gonna think he'scrazy. Until somebody joins
them. And then that person cantalk to other people to join
him. Yeah, I mean, it's like adomino effect.

Genesis (01:30:29):
Yeah, exactly. But it's most important to be that first
follower.

Sage (01:30:37):
I think I might need to see that video.

Genesis (01:30:39):
I'll send you the link to it. I'll put that link in the
show notes there. Yeah, I don'tknow. I've always been intrigued
by that specific TED Talk. I'vewatched a lot of times just
because it's kind of fascinatingand then you can see how that
forms across the board in somany different situations called
cults. You know, like how do howdoes you think about like how
does a cult actually form andthis is another episode I really

(01:31:02):
want to dive deep into in the inthe cults but like some of these
cults are fucking nuts. How didthey get so many people to
follow in line with some ofthese things and you can kind of
see it, you know, boiled down towhat we just watched there

Sage (01:31:20):
may like Christianity to some to so

Genesis (01:31:24):
well, that's definitely one of the questions. What's the
difference between a cult andreligion? Nothing. I guess the
outcome.

Sage (01:31:35):
I mean, if coats will most coats are profitable, I was
gonna say it, they'reprofitable, but But yeah,
that's, I mean, I never thoughtabout like, yeah, like the first
follower is technically is themost important person. I mean,
it makes a whole lot of sensethat you need somebody to

(01:31:56):
validate you.

Genesis (01:31:57):
Right? Exactly. There's like it's like a step by step
process but like literally thefundamentals of like getting a
group going which I mean,whether you use that for I mean,
we see that in a positive way ornegatively in a lot of things
you know,

Sage (01:32:17):
look at Case in point look at all the all the hate for
Nickelback.

Genesis (01:32:22):
Yeah, exactly. That's a perfect example

Sage (01:32:26):
which is unwarranted pisses me off.

Genesis (01:32:31):
I guaranteed if you went on the streets right now
and like polled 100 People juststop them Billy on the Street
Style ask them what do you thinkabout Nickelback? I think
majority of people would saythey hate it and Nickelback
trash

Sage (01:32:44):
see and people say that but they have multiple number
ones multiple awards. somebody'slistening to this shit

Genesis (01:32:52):
Yeah, I mean it's that back its back the the answers
usually I mean, I would say Idon't know this for a fact but
like it seems like just becausethe notion is that it's popular
to say Nickelback is trash

Sage (01:33:04):
you have these elitist who just want to be want it to be
better like Oh, well that's notreally rock music. That's more
pop but if you go back and lookwhen rock music first getting
started off it was consideredpop music second that bitch

(01:33:27):
right. Yeah, no, even then,because I was literally looking
this up the other day because Iwas cleaning up my kitchen
jamming out some Nickelbacklike, No, fuck this. I want to
hear rock star.

Genesis (01:33:38):
I want to be a rock star. So it was like a fire.

Sage (01:33:43):
So I'm sitting there looking at look into it. I'm
like, Yeah, Rock was consideredpop music. I forget when I can't
spell consider right now. Was itup right? No, not pop rock,
actual rock. Oh, during the1950s and 60s, pop music

(01:34:05):
encompass Rock, rock and rolland youth oriented style
influence. Rock and Pop musicremain roughly synonymous. Yeah,
and

Genesis (01:34:13):
I think that's it's when Elvis Presley came on board
that he coined the term rock androll and that's where you seen
more edgier form being taken?
Because before it was like, Idon't know what groups were was
it like the Beatles? Was thataround then?

Sage (01:34:29):
Yeah. Beatles, Beatles about 60s. They're in the 60s.
Yeah, that makes sense. I gotsome

Genesis (01:34:33):
50s try, but like the shit you heard at the milkshake?
stands, you know, like the Bob.

Sage (01:34:39):
Yeah, like the Beach Boys and shit like that. Yeah. So
happy we weren't alive backthen.

Genesis (01:34:48):
Oh, no, it might be fun to visit it for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Sage (01:34:55):
That'd be fun for me. Be cool.

Genesis (01:34:58):
I'm sorry. You can't time travel. wasn't me

Sage (01:35:01):
with my mouth. I wouldn't make it a day now. He's like up
again. Locked up will be theleast of my worries

Genesis (01:35:13):
what to transition away from that? What would pineapple
on pizza fall into the samecategory as Nickelback?

Sage (01:35:23):
No it's just discus pineapple just does not belong
on pizza.

Genesis (01:35:26):
Oh are you saying that not a taste or because you're
opposing the group mentality

Sage (01:35:33):
just does not belong on pizza.

Genesis (01:35:37):
I think it's rather delightful on there.

Sage (01:35:40):
And you're weird person.
We you go go find an Italian andan Italian from Italy and eczema
pineapple belongs on pizza andthey really like know what the
fuck you doing?

Genesis (01:35:54):
Pizza has evolved long from its roots to where we don't
need the experts of originalpizza.

Sage (01:36:00):
But we but here's think we can ask them because they
actually are still here. Yeah,culture created the shit.
Question. Do we need it on here?
No. Cool.

Genesis (01:36:12):
Got a taste good. So not for me. Not for me.

Sage (01:36:21):
And I eat a lot of weird shit on pizza, but not for me.

Genesis (01:36:25):
And they might disagree with those choices too, then,

Sage (01:36:28):
and I'm pretty sure they could. That being said,
obviously I need it.

Genesis (01:36:32):
But again, there's it because you don't like the taste
of it. Or you think it justdoesn't belong on there.

Sage (01:36:37):
I don't I don't like sweet with my pizza. Like it's
everything about a pizza savory.
Why the hell am I in sweet? Andif you if you'd like pineapple
and pizza Summit, really? Takesome pineapple dip it in some
fucking marinara sauce and tellme that's delicious.

Genesis (01:36:56):
You're missing out on the dough and you know the
other?

Sage (01:36:59):
No, I'm okay.

Genesis (01:37:03):
Don't try to break down man. It's okay, if you don't
like it. I just think the thepopularization of that question
alone. seems similar. And Idon't I think I think in a lot
of cases people would chooseaside based on whatever the
popular answer is in their groupsetting or they're taken in

(01:37:23):
opposition to that to just beopposing to something.

Sage (01:37:28):
On other things, yes, people pretty pretty people are
pretty firm when it comes tofood. The lines are clear and
drawn.

Genesis (01:37:37):
I just I don't think we'll ever know the answer
because nobody will be honest.

Sage (01:37:41):
Like yet the people who swear by dipping their their
fries in the windy frosty.

Genesis (01:37:47):
That's fire. I like that.

Sage (01:37:50):
Yeah, that's that's sweet.
Salty. That sweet and salty.
Salty. Yeah. See what that's anactual profile. That's a full
profile. I'm okay with that. Idon't like to do it. But I get
it.

Genesis (01:38:02):
That's the same thing.
You just describe what pineappleon pizza.

Sage (01:38:05):
No, no, that's sweet and savory. Those two different
things. Wow. Okay.

Genesis (01:38:10):
What about barbecue sauces, then?

Sage (01:38:13):
I don't like sauce on any of my foods. Well, there's

Genesis (01:38:15):
a lot of the barbecue sauces are sweet and savory.

Sage (01:38:19):
Now not really. Namely. I don't know. Exactly.

Genesis (01:38:24):
Savory ones. Exactly.
Theory.

Sage (01:38:29):
I think barbecue sauce as a whole

Genesis (01:38:32):
is a joke. I wouldn't go that far. I mean, I'm not a
huge fan of barbecue sauces. Butwhat do you mean it's a joke?

Sage (01:38:40):
Because I feel like if you're gonna use barbecue sauce
let's say just let's just sayribs for instance. Why even why
even season your ribs or do anyof that stuff if you're just
gonna smother it in fuckingbarbecue sauce. Because all
you're gonna taste his fuckingbarbecue sauce. Like Mike looks

(01:39:01):
from when somebody takes allthat time to prep this meat
seasoning like maybe inject itdo whatever they want to do then
smoke it or grilling to have itI'm going to do it just for you
just turn around and dump a fuckton of fucking like lorries or
something on here. And like whydid I just waste all that time I
could have just made it plainyou could just put this on it.

Genesis (01:39:20):
Typically what you do on specifically ribs or I guess
any meat chicken or whateverthat you're putting barbecue
sauce on that you're not alsodoubling down on what the other
style which would be dry rubs?

Sage (01:39:33):
No people do people will do drop like what steaks people
do all that prep for steak andthen we'll smother and a one

Genesis (01:39:42):
that's a different story. And I'm like what the
fuck that was another thing Idid. Probably would strengthen
my my anxiety when eating foodsin front of strangers when I
would go out to these worklunches. from vendors that would
would take me on I rememberordered a steak and this was

(01:40:04):
like the first one I did. And Ithey bought me like it was like
a $40 Fucking filet. And I askedfor Ace and I got the fucking
hardest looks and I was like,okay, never doing that again.
Yeah, no,

Sage (01:40:20):
that's a waste of me. I just I just paid it's like
getting wagyu if you if I everseen anybody put a one on laghu
it was Wagar we gotta we gottafight. We got to fight writing
in there.

Genesis (01:40:33):
Yeah, never again. I was young dumb. Didn't know what
I was doing.

Sage (01:40:41):
He would put a one.

Genesis (01:40:43):
Yeah, I don't do it now though. I realized I realized my
mistakes. Mistakes get insnakes.

Sage (01:40:49):
I see what you did there.
Yeah. But at the same argumentlike my sister because my sister
only eats her steaks. Well done.
And I'm like, You're destroyingthis. You're not tasting
anything? Yeah, like how theflavor is gone.

Genesis (01:41:03):
I won't go as Bloody as you go. But I do like I do like
pink in the middle. So I'll doI'll do

Sage (01:41:11):
I don't go blue. Blue is probably blue. They're on a
different level. Yeah, that's itjust seems wrong. Yeah, they you
literally just kiss the kiss thegrill on both sides of the
steak. And was like, Here yougo.

Genesis (01:41:28):
Like, it's not even easy to eat though. It's so
chewy. Like I ate it onaccident. When I've undercooked
some, like undercooked my ownsteaks at home.

Sage (01:41:37):
Do I used to work with this girl who would go to the
store on our lunch breaks? Badground beef and we'll just eat
it out the fucking pack? No, Iwas like, Are you fucking
kidding me?

Genesis (01:41:48):
That sounds like she had one of those. Is the food
eating disorder purely likefucking metal and cotton balls
and shit.

Sage (01:41:59):
Oh, she said that's how she does it. Like in her. When
she eats steaks. They have to berare, rare. And I was like, What
the fuck like, and she wasskinny as shit too. So I'm like,
something's wrong with you. Yougot some mental issues. But this
same girl also didn't believe indinosaurs, but believed in love
at first sight.

(01:42:22):
Yeah, I was like, You need toexplain this. Like dinosaurs.
It's just a conspiracy. It'slike, there's, there's there's
proof. Everywhere. Else youtalking about?

Genesis (01:42:35):
We got to talk about that on the flat earth. Because
that people believe that. That'snot just like a lone, crazy
person thinking that that'sthere's like video series on
YouTube, trying to dispel theconspiracy of dinosaurs
existence. And religiousreligions. A lot of religions.

(01:42:56):
They will say that, that thatthey don't exist either. And
that that's not part of it.
Because it wasn't in the Bible.

Sage (01:43:04):
Yeah, don't get me started down that rabbit hole.

Genesis (01:43:07):
Was there anything else you want to talk about? or would
like to bring up as far as thelemming effect?

Sage (01:43:13):
I guess the only the most modern and prevalent living
effect right now. That is whywould have to be Apple or
Android.

Genesis (01:43:24):
Okay,

Sage (01:43:25):
because you got with your Apple person, your diehard
fucking Apple person. And youdon't know why. It was like, Oh,
it's just better. Why is itbetter? I can't explain. But
then in the same can go forSamsung because I'm an Android
person. Like, same go for us. Itwas like, Oh, well, fuck apples.
But I mean, I can kind ofexplain why I don't like apples.

(01:43:47):
But for the sake of argument, Iwon't.

Genesis (01:43:51):
We know that you're not generally. What is it to
subtable except the

Sage (01:44:01):
Decepticon No,

Genesis (01:44:03):
to this sort of group mentality phenomenon. But again,
I think we can we can talk aboutAndroid versus Apple in the same
way. We broke down some of thesethings. It's a complex thing
that our brain is shortcuttingto side with those that are

(01:44:24):
around us who are using the sameproduct even and who are getting
told by the others that are inthe same group, that it's the
right thing to do so they becomeextreme in their opinions.

Sage (01:44:39):
product. They do come extreme because then you have
all these these Apple fanboysbecause that's what I'm gonna
call them who sit there and theywill like if you text somebody,
and it doesn't show it whateverthat Apple Color is. They'd be
like, Oh, I didn't know you werepoor. Or like what the fuck My

(01:45:00):
phone costs more than yours, ifanything.

Genesis (01:45:03):
They're all expensive.
Let's just

Sage (01:45:07):
remember my old roommate.
I won't say his name because Ijust sent him the link to the
pot. So he might hear this. Youmight hear this but my roommate
I remember when we were livingtogether, he met some girl got
her number sent her a text, shefound out that he had an Android
she stopped texting.

Genesis (01:45:30):
What the fuck was make any difference in who you are
romantic lives?

Sage (01:45:37):
It blew my mind. I was like, that's the reason?

Genesis (01:45:41):
Or was it that he just was saying that that was the
reason because he didn't want toreveal that it's really
something else.

Sage (01:45:49):
No, no, no, he, me and him talked about everything. So if
it was something else, if therewas something else he would have
told me to do? Because I thinkit was I think he 100% told me
because he was just more inshock. Like, what?

Genesis (01:46:03):
Yeah, that's fucking weird. Why would you what would
just doesn't make any sense tome?

Sage (01:46:08):
Do people make their opinions and they're very strong
opinions?

Genesis (01:46:14):
And it's weird that those opinions like start you
based other decisions that havenothing to do with that opinion
solely based around? If thatperson can belong in your circle
with the same opinions? Andthat's, that's gonna probably
gonna fuck us as a society.

Sage (01:46:33):
No, I don't think you will. I mean, we've we've
learned to navigate it thislong. I'm pretty sure we'll keep
learning especially now with theyounger generation. Like
therapy. They're becoming moreaccepting, like every generation
is becoming more accepting ofother people's choices every
year, like, when when ourparents were kids. interracial

(01:47:00):
couples were not accepted atall. Yeah, our generation
interracial cable couples areaccepted. There's a little bit
blowback is a little bit butnowhere near what it was before.
Now, it's the fucking nor nomean things, just costly
progress like that, you know?

Genesis (01:47:16):
Yeah. But it's almost like I don't know the way I'm
like thinking about it. It's, itseems like it's harder to be
independent in society today.
Because you can get out castedfor far less than you would say,
you know, in the past,

Sage (01:47:39):
see, I would say is harder today. For the simple fact you
have 50 Different things beingthrown at you telling you what
you should like, or how youshould be at any given second.

Genesis (01:47:53):
So that means that seems like it's almost
impossible for us to really doany sort of organic growth.

Sage (01:48:01):
That's why you gotta wait for those outliers who just want
to be their their own drum.
Yeah.

Genesis (01:48:06):
Be their first follower.

Sage (01:48:08):
I mean, they, like look at Elon Musk outlier. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, you just got to do whatyou want, can't get caught up in
what other people think aboutit, or how other people view.
Like, if you want to give it ashot, give it a shot. At the end
of the day. You can least saythat you try even if you fail.

Genesis (01:48:28):
So that's a good way to end the episode those how, as
somebody who has clearly avoidedgroup mentality lemming effect,
how does one avoid it? Andshould they?

Sage (01:48:42):
Um, it's really up to you.
That is me. I just don't give afuck about enough things to do
it. Like, it's honestly most ofit is probably I'm just too
selfish to care. So

Genesis (01:48:57):
where's the wisdom?
Y'all

Sage (01:49:00):
be too selfish?

Genesis (01:49:02):
I think I think we should do

Sage (01:49:04):
you fuck everybody else.
And you'll always stay on yourpath.

Genesis (01:49:09):
I think no matter what, even if you do that you'll have
you'll have a first followerthat can set off a group
movement.

Sage (01:49:20):
And then what's with that group gets big enough, say fuck
off and then go do somethingelse.

Genesis (01:49:24):
And then switch it up.

Sage (01:49:28):
marched to the beat of your own drum, or xylophone or
whatever the fuck it is, youknow,

Genesis (01:49:32):
until it becomes everybody's drum or beer, and
then switch drums or switchinstruments.

Sage (01:49:38):
Yeah, cuz at that point, you're gonna want to anyway
naturally because it started aslet's say, you started as a boy,
by the time everybody's onboard, it's now it's now like xx
or something like it'scompletely derivative form of
whatever you had originallystarted. So why would you want
to do it anymore? Right probablyyou probably will. Wouldn't so

(01:50:00):
just say fucking wash yourhands? Have it go to someone
else with body wash and a loofaYes, a loofa has been around for
over 20 something years.

Genesis (01:50:13):
You see I don't jump on any bandwagon clearly. I'm not a
part of the blue free movementuntil I

Sage (01:50:21):
don't know how you just pass on that your entire life,
whatever that is, and just can'tmove.

Genesis (01:50:27):
Because there's no clear those things don't have
directions on them. So like, Idon't know how to use it. I'm
gonna just err on the side ofcaution

Sage (01:50:32):
you kind of don't need direction. It's kind of one of
those you can figure it out onyour own.

Genesis (01:50:37):
I'm still figuring it out. I still haven't struggled
doesn't tell you how much youput down there. It should have
it should have an instructionand how much body was put on the
damn loofa

Sage (01:50:46):
you know what it doesn't have an instruction because body
wash is so cheap. They don'tgive a shit.

Genesis (01:50:51):
I don't know that Old Spice one wasn't cheap.

Sage (01:50:55):
You can go buy a gallon of shit

Genesis (01:50:57):
for yeah like 50 bucks.
No.

Sage (01:51:03):
Where are you buying stuff you buy? You need stop shopping
online just go into a store

Genesis (01:51:08):
that must be getting over marked or overpriced marked
up. So with that, I think we cancall it there. Thanks everybody
for tuning in to another episodea riskless episode of The Haven
exchange podcast. Let us know ifwe should do more of these

(01:51:29):
without break. We'll slowlyphase them out of the group.

Sage (01:51:33):
We'll be starting a GoFundMe page for Rick's anus

Genesis (01:51:36):
yes yes if you want to support that head on over to
haven patreon.com/haven exchangeall proceeds I promise will go
to his dangerous anus

Sage (01:51:48):
for $1 day you can protect his aims from the dangerous
vegetables out there that hefeels the need to play with.

Genesis (01:51:57):
Yeah, I don't know why he feels that need he fills a
need

Sage (01:52:01):
and he also wants to get the turbo fixed on his birthday
Yep, so so there's that T

Genesis (01:52:08):
burned out the motor damnit violent you play on my
turbo the day again?

Sage (01:52:21):
Oh my god that just put a very bogus picture in my drain.

Genesis (01:52:26):
clean that out. I guess somebody was here's the mind
wash well, yeah, it was thatjoke. He said it's P Diddy right
and get Him to the Greek. He'slike I hope you like I like the

(01:52:47):
way you think or something. He'slike I hope you're gonna kind of
because I got a dirty mind orsomething like

Sage (01:52:52):
so he says so much fucked up shit. Like mine Fuck yeah.

Genesis (01:53:00):
Yeah, something like that. You were in a kind of
second dirty mine. Oh my god.
All right, you're ready. Laterdays.
See you next week for a brandnew episode for all the
shenanigans brand new topic allthat good stuff. We love you

(01:53:22):
Good I

Sage (01:53:24):
really to fade away.

Genesis (01:53:26):
You get away if you're not fading away with me.

Sage (01:53:31):
It wasn't a real we didn't we didn't rehearse this
beforehand.

Genesis (01:53:36):
We tried again. Good night.

Sage (01:53:45):
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The Bandwagon Effect - Haven Exchange #60

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Bandwagon Effect - Haven Exchange #60